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H 

47Tn  Congress,  )  SENATE.  i  Mis.  Doc.  . 

lat  /Session.       j  \   No.  110. 

IN  THE  SENATE  OP  THE  UNITED  STATES. 


TESTIMONY 

l!Kl"(ll!K 

THE  SENATE  SPECIAL  COMMITTEE 


Investigate  the  mhainistration  of  the  collection  of  internal  revenue  in  the 
sixth  district  of  Xorth  Carolina^  appointed  April  21,  1882. 


JCLY  7,  1882. — Ordered  to  be  printed. 


Members  of  committee. — Senator  Z.  B.  Vance,  of  North  Carolina,  chair- 
man; Senator  J.  W.  McDill,  of  Iowa;  Scnatoi-  J.  I.  Mitclicll,  of  I'enu- 
sylvania. 

"^'ASHiNGTON,  D.  (1,  June  7,  1882. 

The  committee  met  at  10  a.  m. 

W.  G.  Bogle  sworn  and  examined. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  You  are  a  resident  of  the  sixth  collection  district  of  North 
Carolina? — Answer.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Where  is  your  residence— in  what  part  of  the  district  ? — A.  Tay- 
lorsville. 

Q.  Have  yon  ever  been  connected  with  the  revenue  department  in 
tliat  district? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  In  what  capacity? — A.  Storelceeper  and  ganger. 

Q.  How  long  ? — A.  I  suppose  about  three  j^ears. 

Q.  What  are  the  duties  of  a  storekeeper  and  ganger  ?  It  is  a  double 
office,  ganger  and  storekeeper  combined,  is  it  not? — A.  Yes,  sir;  the 
duties  are,  that  you  are  put  in  charge  of  a  distillery,  to  see  tliat  it  is 
running  according  to  law,  and  to  gauge  the  spirits  and  stamp,  them. 

Q.  Describe  a  day's  work  at  a  distillery ;  what  time  of  the  morning  it 
Avonld  begin  its  operations,  and  whether  you  would  have  to  be  present. — 
A.  You  have  to  be  there  when  the  distillery  commences  in  the  morning ; 
when  they  put  the  fire  on,  it  is  the  storekeeper's  duty  to  be  there  and  to 
stay  until  the  fire  is  drawn  away  from  the  furnace  in  the  evening. 

Q.  What  was  the  capacity  per  day  of  the  distillery  at  which  you  were 
engaged  ? — A.  I  have  been  at  several  distilleries.  One  was  3i  and  the 
other  -4  bushels. 

(^>.  Do  you  know  anything  about  the  multiplying  of  distilleries — nuik- 
ing  two  or  three  small  ones  out  of  one  large  one — in  that  district  ? — A. 
No,  sir.        J    6  6   6  * 


2  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  You  do  not  know  of  any  instances  where  tLatlias  been  done  ? — A. 
Xot  of  my  own  personal  kno\\led<^o. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  instances  where  one  man  wouhl  own  two  or 
three  stills  on  the  same  phmtation  or  near  to  it? — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  don't 
know  Avhether  on  the  same  phmtation,  but  very  near. 

Q.  What  wouhl  be  the  capacity  per  day  of  such  stills  ? — A.  Three 
and  a  half  to  four  bushels  a  day. 

Q.  If  these  had  been  in  one,  the  capacity  would  have  been  about 
twelve  bushels? — A.  Xo,  sir;  eight. 

Q.  Eight  for  two  stills  ?— A.  Twelve  for  three. 

Q.  Was  it  the  same  expense  to  the  goverument  to  run  two  or  three 
distilleries  as  it  was  to  run  one  or  more  ? — A.  I  would  say  it  would  be 
more  to  run  two  or  three. 

Q.  Why  ? — A.  It  requires  two  or  three  storekeepers. 

Q.  A  storekeeper  to  every  distillery  however  small  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  There  have  been  allegations  that  storekeei)ers  sometimes  divided 
their  pay  with  the  distillers  in  order  to  get  the  distilleries  to  run ;  is 
that  so?-r— A.  I  have  heard  of  it. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  your  own  knowledge  of  any  such  case  ? — A.  No, 
sir. 

Q.  Or  from  the  knowledge  or  confession  of  any  of  the  parties  ? — A. 
No,  sir. 

Q.  You  say  you  have  heard  of  such  things  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Could  you  tell  me  at  what  distilleries  it  was  said  that  was  done  ? — 
A.  I  have  heard  of  so  many — generally  rumored. 

Q.  You  do  not  want  to  say  what  particular  ones? — A.  Daniels. 

Q.  How  many  distilleries  did  Daniels  have? — A.  Three,  I  believe. 
That  is  all  I  know  of.  , 

().  How  far  were  they  apart? — A.  Two  of  them  within  100  yards  of 
each  other. 

Q.  AVhat  was  their  capacity? — A.  Four  bushels,  1  believe. 

Q.  How  far  was  the  third  one  away  ? — A.  1  supi)ose  about  10  miles. 

(}.  Who  were  the  storekeepers  to  these  three  distilleries  of  Daniels? 
— A.  Various  storekeepers.  I  have  forgotten  their  names.  Mr.  Mor- 
rison there  (indicating)  was  one  for  a  while.  Mr.  Douglass  and  several 
others,  1  can't  think  of  their  names  now. 

Q.  Can  you  mention  any  others  that  were  said  to  have  this  operation 
of  dividing  ?— A.  I  have  heard  that  in  regard  to  almost  all  of  the  dis- 
lillerics  down  there — Coopei'.s  and  all  of  them. 

(}.  It  is  tlie  common  rumor  and  understanding? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  Was  there  e\er  snch  a  thing  as  an  assessment  levied  on  you,  as 
an  otiiccr,  for  jiolitical  i)Ui[>(»s('s  ? — A.  1  was  aske<l  by  the  collector  to 
C(tntril)nfc  to  tin-  cani[)aign  fund. 

(,>.   Wiicn? — A.  It  was  after  the  election. 

<^).  W'liat  el('(;tion  ? — A.  The  (larfu'ld  campaign.  1  don't  know  how 
nniny  nninllis  after — I  tliink  sevc^ral   months  after  tlu'  campaign. 

(}.   Did  you  do  so? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.   How  much  did  yon  contribnte? — A.  ^\()i, 

(}.  What  pioportion  of  yonrsahny  wasthat  amount  ? — A.  One  month's 
salary. 

(,).   Did  \<Hi  (NCI-  coiitiibntt'  more  tlian  once? — ^V.  No,  sir. 

<^).  Il;i\('  yon  (•\(  T  ix'cn  asked  more  tiian  once? — A.  No,  sir.  1  was 
assessed  \\)i  otlice  expenses  there  one  per  (rent,  otf  my  salary  eacli  nH)ntIi. 

i).   W'liat  olliee  expenses — the  eolleetor's  olliee  ? — A,  Yes,  sii'. 

(}.  Do\(iii  know  n!  ;iii\  <il  hers  I  hat  paid  tiiis  assessnuMit? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    ^^F    NORTH    CAROLINA.  6 

Q,  Was  it  understood  that  they  were  all  assessed  in  the  same  way — 
every  one  of  the  oflieers? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  many  do  you  suppose  were  subject  to  that  assessment ! — A. 
I  don't  know.     All  the  officers  of  the  district,  I  presume. 

Q.  Can  you  give  me  aiiy  idea  of  the  aggregate  amount  collected  in 
that  way  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  I  cannot.  I  have  heard  rumor  of  how  much  it 
was — heard  it  was  said  to  be  between  $20,000  and  $25,000;  but  1  have 
no  idea  of  it. 

Q.  On  the  supposition  that  all  were  assessed  as  you  were,  and  as  you 
heard  others  were,  I  presume  it  would  make  at  least  that  much,  Avould 
it  not ! — A.  Yes,  sir ;  if  all  were  assessed  as  I  was  it  would. 

Q.  Had  you  any  idea  where  that  money  went  to  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Were  you  told  '! — A.  The  collector  told  me  he  was  behind.  I  be- 
lieve he  said  he  had  borrowed  money  for  campaign  purposes  and  he  had 
to  pay  it  back. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  one  who  refused  to  pay  it  ? — A.  No,  sir;  not 
of  my  own  personal  knowledge. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  heard  of  any  who  have  refused  to  pay  it  ? — A.  I 
don't  believe  I  have. 

i}.  Do  you  know  whether  some  of  the  collector's  appointees  were  of 
difltereut  politics  from  the  collector;  some  of  them  were  Democrats 
when  they  received  their  appointment,  were  they  not  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  kno^v  whether  or  not  they  were  expected  to  change  their 
politics  when  they  took  the  position!— A.  I  do  not. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  those  who  were  Democrats  contributed  to 
pay  this  assessment,  as  the  rest  of  you  did  ? — A.  I  do  not,  sir. 

Q,  Do  you  know  how  that  was  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  who  were  discharged  on  account  of  their 
votes  ? — A.  I  don't  know.  I  have  heard  only  of  one  man  who  was  dis- 
charged. 

Q.  Who  was  he?— A.  Capt.  Thos.  A.  Price. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  there  were  a  great  many,  or  any  number  of 
storekeepers  and  gangers  without  assignment,  as  it  is  called? — A.  I 
declare  1  don't  know,  sir.  I  don't  know  the  number  of  distilleries  in 
the  district,  nor  the  number  of  storekeepers,  exactly. 

Q.  Did  you  have  any  knowledge  of  men  appointed  storekeepers,  who 
were  waiting  for  something  to  do — some  appointment? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I 
have  seen  storekeepers  appointed,  who  did  not  get  any  w^ork  for  a  long- 
time. 

Q.  Do  you  know  why  they  were  appointed  when  there  was  no  work 
for  them  to  do  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  I  don't. 
By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  In  what  years  were  you  storekeeper?  Y^ou  said  you  were  so  about 
three  years. — A.  I  think  I  was  appointed  in  1877-78.  I  will  saj'  1879 
and  'SO. 

Q.  Y"ou  quit  work  as  ganger  and  storekeeper  in  the  year  1880? — A. 
No,  sir;  I  quit  work  in  1881.  I  think  it  must  have  been  1879,  '80,  and 
'81. 

Q.  About  what  time  iu  the  year  *81  did  you  quit  work? — A.  I  think 
it  Mas  in  the  month  of  October. 

Q.  Last  October? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  Do  yon  know  any  reasou  why  ^Er.  Daniels,  for  instance,  had  two 
distilleries  with  a  capacity  of  4  bushels,  so  near  together?  — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  only  know  the  fact  that  he  had  them  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  is  the  smallest  distillery  that  can  run  ? — A.  Three  and  a  half 
bushels  is  the  smallest.  /-i.  -j/^a">o 


4  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Those  of  Daniels  were  tlie  smallest  ? — A.  1  thiok  bis  were  4 bushels. 

Q.  Where  does  ^h\  Daniels  live? — A.  He  lives  at  Statesville. 

Q.  These  distilleries  were  in  the  town  of  Statesville? — A.  Xo,  sir; 
but  near. 

Q.  He  had  one  10  miles  away  from  where  the  two  were  together  t — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q,  You  have  no  personal  knowledge  of  any  division  between  the 
storekeepers- and  distillers— all  you  know  about  it  is  rumor  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  rumor. 

Q.  Do  you  make  any  distinction  in  your  mind  between  assessment 
for  ofiBce  expenses  and  contributions  for  campaign  funds  ;  they  are  two 
different  things,  are  they  not  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  This  assessment  for  office  expenses  was  one  per  cent,  of  your 
monthly  salary,  was  it  not?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  did  that  last  ? — A.  I  think  I  contributed  about  four  or 
live  months. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  the  time  you  did  so  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  any  recollection  of  it  being  at  a  time  when  there  was  a 
deficiency  in  the  appropriation  ? — A.  I  don't  know  about  that. 

Q.  Was  there  any  explanation  at  the  time  you  were  assessed  as  to 
the  reason  for  the  assessment  ? — A.  1  think  there  was,  but  have  forgot- 
ten what  it  was. 

Q.  You  remember,  however,  that  it  was  for  office  expenses  ? — A.  It 
was  for  office  expenses.  There  was  some  excuse  for  assessing  us,  but  I 
don't  know  what  it  was  now. 

Q.  That  only  lasted  three  or  four  months  ? — A.  I  think  I  contributed 
four  or  live  months. 

Q.  After  that  you  were  not  assessed  for  office  expenses  ? — A.  Ko,  sir. 

(}.  When  you  were  asked  to  contribute  to  the  campaign  fund  did  you 
do  so  voluntarilj'  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  told  the  collector  I  would  contribute 
of  course.     I  was  willing  to  contribute. 

Q.  AVhen  you  spoke  of  the  amount  of  the  fund  as  §20,000  or  $25,000, 
were  you  speaking  of  the  amount  for  office  expenses  tluit  the  men  con- 
tributed?— A.  Of  the  amount  contributed  for  campaign  purposes. 

(^.  You  have  heard  that  there  was  a  contribution  to  that  amount  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  I  have  heard  it. 

Q.  Of  tliat  you  have  no  personal  knowledge? — A.  Xo,  sir;  I  don't 
know. 

(^.  Where  does  Ca])t.  Thos.  A.  Trice  live? — A.  I  don't  know  where 
now;  he  <lid  live  in  Statesville.  He  is  running  as  conductor  on  the 
AN'estern  North  Carolina  b'ailroad. 

(I.  A  storekeei)er  would  necessarily  be  otf  duty  if  the  distillery  shut 
uj)  to  which  he  belonged? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(.^>.  is  that  sometimes  tlu^  reason  why  a  number  of  storekeepers  are 
witliout  assignment? — A.   Ves,  sir, 

().  ^\'ilen  a  distiUeiy  suspen<ls  <ii)erat  ions  ? — A.  W'lieii  a  distillery 
suspeiuls,  I  lie  st()i'ekee])er  is  oil"  duty  until  assigned  to  some  other  dis- 
filler.v,  oi-  until  that  distillery  resumes. 

(f.  1  he  flistillers  have  control  of  that  matter  and  can  shut  oft'  when 
the.N  please? — A.  ^'es,  sii'.  They  have  to  notify  the  collector  that  they 
;ir<^  going  to  snspend  on  a  ccitiiin  (la>. 

i'>y  the  (!ll AliniAN  : 
i).   Had  you   applied  for  .\(inr  monthly  pay  before   this  contribution 
they  got   you   to  make  for  campaign   puiposes,  and  it  had  been   held 
back? — A.  'I'lie,  (;lieck  1  (;(»ntribut<'(l.     I  had  asked  for  it.     I  had  written 
for  it. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  5 

Q.  Had  it  been  payable  to  you  before  that  tiine  ?— A.  Before  I  gave 
it  to  the  collector? 

Q.  Yes. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Y'oii  had  asked  for  it? — A.  I  had  written  to  the  office  for  it. 

Q.  -Afore  than  ouce  ? — A.  f  think  twice. 

Q.  Did  you  go  to  the  office  for  it? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  1  went  to  the  office 
for  it.     There  was  anotlier  check  due  me. 

Q.  Just  explain  the  transaction. — A.  When  I  went  to  the  office  there 
was  another  check  due  nie  for  anoi^her  mouth,  and  I  called  on  Mr.  Coite 
for  the  check.  He  gave  me  the  check  that  was  due  me  for  the  last 
month,  and  told  me  to  go  iu  and  see  the  collector  with  regard  to  my 
June  check.  iPI9 

Q.  Previous  to  the  check  you  had  just  received  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  I  went 
in  to  see  the  collector  with  regard  to  it  and  he  asked  me  to  give  it  to 
him. 

Q.  What  are  your  politics? — A.  I  am  a  Republican,  sir. 

A.  D.  CowLES  sworn  and  examined. 
By  the  Chairman: 

Question.  State  your  residence  and  occupation. — Answer.  States- 
ville,  jS'.  C;  deputy  clerk  of  the  United  States  court. 

Q,  Have  you  ever  been  connected  with  the  Eevenue  Department? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  In  what  capacity? — A,  Storekeeper  and  deputy  collector. 

Q.  Explain  to  us  the  method  of  subdivision  of  the  distilleries  in  that 
country, —  A.  I  don't  know,  sir;  I  was  connected  with  the  revenue  in 
'70  and  '77,  and  that  was  when  the  distilleries  were  but  very  few,  and 
before  any  such  reports  as  division  was  talked  of  at  all. 

Q.  Do  yon  know  the  fact  that  there  are  several  distilleries  made  into 
two  or  three — or  two  or  three  on  the  same  plantation ;  and  belonging 
to  the  same  nmu  ? — A.  Nothing  of  my  own  personal  knowledge ;  I  have 
heard  so. 

Q.  Is  it  not  the  general  understanding  in  that  country,  that  whoever 
wants  to,  can  run,  instead  of  one  1 2-gallon  still,  three  i-gallon  stills,  if  he 
will  take  the  trouble  to  do  it  ? — A.  I  have  not  heard  it  generallj'  spoken 
of;  I  have  heard  of  one  or  two  instances,  one  notably. 

Q.  Which  oue  is  that?— A.  Mr.  Daniels. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  of  the  division  of  storekeepers'  salaries 
with  the  distillers? — A.  No,  sir;  nothing  of  my  own  knowledge. 

Q.  A\  hat  do  you  know  about  political  assessments  ? — A.  I  don't  know 
anything,  only  rumor.  I  have  heard  several  storekeepers  and  gangers 
say  they  contributed  to  the  campaign  fund,  and  several  affidavits  were 
made  before  me,  as  deputy  clerk  of  the  United  States  court,  to  that  effect. 
I  know  nothing  further  than  that. 

Q.  Do  you  know  or  have  you  an  idea  from  what  you  know  about  the 
matter,  of  the  aggregate  amount  thus  contributed? — A.  I  have  heard  it 
variously  estimated,  but  there  is  nothing  definite. 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  number  of  government  envidoj'es  in  that  district  ? 
— A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  have  no  way  of  arriving  at  the  amount  of  the  aggregate  as- 
sess aient,  unless  you  knew  all  of  them  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  not  at  all.  A 
great  many  deputy  collectors,  storekeepers,  and  gangers  are  otf  duty 
some  of  the  time.  As  I  understood  it  from"  storekeepers  geuerally, 
those  not  on  assignment  were  not  assessed. 

Q.  Those  not  at  work? — A.  Not  at  woyk  at  the  time.  That  is  the 
report. 


6  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Do  YOli  kiioAT  wbetlier  any  storelveepers  have  been  appointed,  and 
liave  waited  for  mouths  and  months  ^vithont  getting  any  assignment !? 
— A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Mr.  Bogle  tells  us  that  when  a  distillery  suspended  the  storekeeper 
was  necessarily  -without  employment  nntil  another  was  started.  I  want 
to  know  of  any  instance  where  a  storekeeper  has  been  appointed  and 
theu  had  to  wait,  and  never  had  an  assignment. — A.  No,  sir ;  I  don't 
know  of  such  instances  as  that. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  man  discharged  for  not  voting  the  Eepubli- 
can  ticket"? — A.  No,  sir;  I  don't  think  the  collector  ever  makes  any 
such  stipulation.  He  has  appointed  many  Democrats,  and  some  of  them 
have  changed  of  their  own  will. 

Q.  Just  as  they  made  contributions  ? — A.  I  don't  know  about  that.  I 
have  heard  Capt.  John  Peden,  dei)uty  collector  in  Wilkes  County  (he 
at  one  time  was  a  very  prominent  Democrat  in  that  county,  and  entered 
the  revenue,  and  is  a  Eepublican  now);  I  asked  him  just  from  curiosity 
on  one  occasion  if  the  collector  ever  said  anything  to  him  about  politics. 
He  replied  no;  it  had  never  been  mentioned  to  him  at  all ;  that  he  was 
conscientiously  jjersuaded  that  the  Eepublican  party  was  the  correct 
one;  that  he  lived  iNorth  a  good  while,  and  he  had  seen  the  Eepubli- 
can party  was  the  party  of  the  country.  I  have  heard  others  of  less 
note  make  the  same  remark. 

Q.  Was  not  the  present  collector,  Mr.  Cooper,  awhile  back,  a  Demo- 
crat.'' — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  he  joined  the  Eepublican  party  in  71  or 
72,  probably  '73. 

Q.  And  Mr.  Sharpe,  Avho  was  a  Democrat,  is  he  not  now  a  Eepubli- 
can!— A.  I  don't  know  whether  he  is  a  Eepublican.  1  think  he  bolted 
from  the  Democratic  convention.  He  is  deputy  collector  under  Mr. 
Cooper,  and  was  under  Dr.  Mott.  He  represented  his  county  in  the 
legislature  as  a  Democrat.  \ 

Q.  Was  not  Mr.  Jim  Williams  a  Democrat*? — A.  I  think  he  was. 

(^.  A  very  strong  one? — A.  Yes,  sir;  a  strong  one  at  one  time. 

il.  AVhat  ])osition  did  he  get? — A.  Storekeeper. 

Q.  When  did  he  become  a  Eepublican  ? — A.  I  don't  know,  sir. 

Q.  About  the  same  time  he  was  appointed  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  several 
years  ago.     He  has  been  a  revenue  officer,  I  sni)pose,  G  or  8  years. 

(^).  (t)nite  a  number  of  them,  without  mentioning  their  names  in  de- 
tail, were  Democrats,  but  are  now  Eepublicans  and  oftice-holders  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir ;  a  great  inany  of  them  were  appointed  as  Democrats  and  are 
now  Eeitublicans, 

().  Do  you  know  of  any.  instance  where  men  were  indicted  for  \iola- 
tion  of  llic  i('\('nue  laws  who  were  Democrats  and  who  came  out  of  the 
indictment  as  Eei)ublicans  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

(,).  Is  not  tliat  what  is  said  of  Mr.  Cooper? — A.  I  have  heard  it  inti- 
mated.    I  don't  know,  of  my  own  knowledge,  that  that  is  the  case. 

(^.  Have  you  any  idea  of  the  amount  of  loss  to  the  government  by 
tliis  multiplication  of  stills? — A.  None  at  all.  ]\Iy  dei)artment  is  en- 
tirely different.  I  am  not  very  familiar  with  the  routine  of  duties  ot 
tlie  revenue  ser\  ice,  and  know  nothing  of  the  jn'olits  and  losses. 

(^).  llow  long  did  you  stay  as  stoiekeeper  ? — A.  1  was  on  duty  for 
about  U  months.     I  was  (lejjury  collector  aflei-  that  for  one  \ear. 

().   What  are  your  ])(tlitics  ? — A.    Ifepublieaii. 

(j).  ^'ou  (lid  not  lia\e  to  change  ? — A.  No,  sir;  1  was  born  a  Ee]»iibli- 
can — in  '.")<»,  with  tlie  Ijepuldicau  ]»arty. 

I'.y  Senator  McDim,:   , 
<^).  Semitor  \'an(;e  iisked  yon  ;il»oiil  1  )eiiiocrats becoming  liepultlicans. 


THE    .SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  7 

\ 
Have  you  any  knowledge  of  Democrats  turning  over  without  getting 
office f — A.  oil,  yes,  sir. 

Q.  There  is  a  sort  of  a  revolution  going  on  there  in  pul)lic  sentiment  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  it  is  reported  so. 

Q.  So  it  is  an  exodus  of  the  J)emocrats  not  confined  to  those  holding 
ofticef — A.  No,  sir;  not  confined  to  that  class. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  You  have  not  heard  of  one  turning  over  to  be  a  Republican  with- 
out the  hope  of  getting  an  office? — A.  Yes,  sir;  in  several  instances. 
A  prominent  iuan  in  our  ploce,  Colonel  Sharpe,  now  postmaster,  became 
a  Republican  in  ISKi.  He  was  not  appointed  postmaster  until  18S0. 
He  became  a  Republican,  I  presume,  from  correct  principles  and  con- 
scientious motives, 

Q.  You  say  there  is  an  exodus  down  there ;  what  makes  the  exodus 
there ;  what  is  the  issue  among  the  people  ? — A.  It  is  anti-prohibition 
Democrats  who  seem  to  be  dissatisfied  with  the  action  of  the  prohibition 
Democrats,  as  they  call  them. 

Q.  For  what  ? — A.  For  trying  to  force  on  them  the  sumptnary  law 
which  was  defeated  by  a  majority  of  11(3,000  in  our  State,  and  they  are 
going  to  unite  with  the  Republican  party;  the  Liberal  movement,  I  be- 
lieve it  is  called.     At  least  that  is  reported. 

Q.  To  beat  the  prohibitionists  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  and  the  Democracy. 

Q.  Is  it  understood  down  there  that  the  Republican  party  is  the 
liqnor  party  of  the  country,  and  the  Democracy  is  the  party  of  temper- 
ance ! — A.  Well,  sir,  there  are  about  20,000  prohibition  Republicans  in 
the  State. 

Q.  How  manv  votes  were  cast  for  prohibition  ? — A.  About  50,000,  I 
think. 

Q.  And  20,000  of  them  were  Republican  ? — A.  Dr.  ]\Iott  puts  it  at 
4,000,  but  the  North  State  puts  it  at  20,000. 

Q.  You  do  not  say  that  it  is  considered  down  there  that  the  Demo- 
cratic party  is  the  party  of  temperance,  and  the  Republican  party  the 
party  of  free  liquor  ! — A.  I  do  not  know,  sir,  whether  you  can  classifj^ 
it  or  not  in  that  way. 

Q.  The  movement  against  prohibition  was  irrespective  of  party. 
Democrats  and  Republicans,  all  united  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  irrespective  of 
party. 

Q.  Some  prohibitionists  were  Republicans  and  some  Democrats ;  the 
majority,  perhaps,  of  the  prohibitionists  were  Democrats  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  is  about  the  truth  of  the  whole  matter! — A.  I  think  so. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  That  movement  came  by  the  legislature  proposing  to  amend  the 
constitution,  to  submit  a  law  to  the  people  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  was  the  political  complexion  of  that  legislature  ? — A.  Largely 
Democratic,  although  some  Republicans  voted  with  the  majority. 

Q.  But  the  majority  were  Democratic? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  The  majority  of  the  Republicans  in  the  legislature  voted  for  the 
bill "? — A.  My  impression  is  that  a  majority  did  not,  but  that  some  Re- 
publicans voted  for  the  measure ;  I  am  not  well  posted. 

W.  C.  Morrison  sworn  and  examined. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Question.  How  long  were  you  storekeeper  and  ganger  in  the  service 


8  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

of  the  sixth  internal  revenue  collection  district  of  ]S"orth  Carolina? — 
Answer.  I  went  in  in  December,  187S. 

Q.  How  long'  did  you  stay  in? — A.  I  have  been  at  Avork  up  to  the 
X^ast  June,  1881. 

Q.  AVhere  were  you  most  of  the  time  assigned  for  duty  t — A.  I  was 
at  several  places — in  Catawba,  Davie  and  Iredell  Counties. 

Q.  Can  you  give  us  any  information  upon  this  question  that  I  have 
asked  the  other  witnesses  in  your  presence — the  division  of  distilleries '? — 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  cases  where  one  man  owns  more  than  one  distil- 
lery ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  Mr.  Daniels  owns  more  than  one,  or  did. 

Q.  Did  anybody  else  ? — A.  Not  that  I  know  of;  I  have  heard  of  one 
who  was  in  Davie  County,  a  Mr.  Bailey,  and  have  understood  that  Mr. 
Cooper  owned  several. 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  capacity  of  each  one  ? — A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not. 

Q.  That,  I  suppose,  necessitated  the  employment  of  additional  store- 
keepers and  gangers  for  every  distillery  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  of  the  division  of  salaries  or  pay  between 
the  storekeepers  and  gangers  and  distillers  ? — A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not. 

Q.  Nothing  of  that  sort? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  the  distillers  have  any  hand  in  selecting  the  storekeepers? — 
A.  I  don't  know  about  that. 

Q.  Do  you  know  w^hether  the  distillers  were  consulted  at  all  about 
it  ? — A.  I  don't  know  personally. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  cases  w^here  the  storekeepers  boarded  with 
the  distillers'? — A.  Yes,  sir;  when  not  near  town  they  have  to  board 
with  the  distillers. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  the  price  of  board  was  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Where  did  you  board  when  you  were  on  these  various  assign- 
ments ? — A.  I  boarded  with  a  distiller  in  Davie  County. 

Q.  AVhat  did  he  charge  3'ou  for  board  ? — A.  Eight  dollars  a  month. 
►     Q.  Was  that  the  usual  price  for  that  country  ? — A.  I  don't  know 
what  was  the  usual  price. 

Q.  It  was  a  fair  price  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  In  Catawba  County  I  boarded 
in  town. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  political  assessments  levied  upon  the  offi- 
cers ? — A.  The  1  per  cent,  business  ? 

Q.  ]*olitical  assessments  for  political  purposes  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  State  what  you  know  about  it. — A.  They  wanted  the  storekeepers 
aiul  gnagers  to  ])ay  to  the  campaign  fund,  the  way  I  understood  it. 

(}.  Werii  you  cal]e<l  upon"? — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.   For  h(')W  much  ?— A.  I  paid  $108. 

().  W'hiit  i>('i'  cent,  of  vour  salarv  was  thaf  ? — A.  For  one  month,  Julv, 
18S0. 

(}.  Will  you  e.\i»lain  the  circumstances  under  which  you  contributed 
that? — A.  ^'es,  sir.  The  (l('i>iity  collector,  Mr.  (iillespie,  brought  that 
check  to  ine,  and  I  sigruMl  I  he  <'lic<'k. 

(I.  lie  cjiiiic  tn  you  with  ;i  blank  check  for  the  month  of  July? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

().  \\li;if  dill  lie  say  to  you? — A.  He  said  there  was  something  he 
woiihi  like  me  t(»  sign;  he  ha<l  several  others  along;  that  others  had 
l)een  signing  lliem,  and  |)nlle(|  out  oneoi-  two  that  hiid  been  sign(Ml,  and 
I  Jiisl  indorsed  :ind  signe(|  it. 

(^>.  I  le  s;iid  others  had  signed  them,  and  drew  them  ont  and  asked  you 
to  sign  yours,  ;ind  you  «lid  so  ? — A.  Yes,  sii'. 

<>    \Nli;il  l»ec;ime  of  tliemoiicN  ? — A.    I  don't  know.  sir. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  9 

Q.  Did  you  liear  uiiytliin^'  of  it  afterwards  ? — A.  No,  sir;  iiotliiiig  more 
than  1  got  a  letter  from  Wasliiugton  thanking  me  for  the  $25  I  had  sent 
them. 

Q.  Yon  got  a  letter  from  Washington? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  By  whom  was  that  letter  signed? — A.  By  Commissioner  Eanm,  I 
think. 

(I  Thanking  you  for  what  ?— A.  The  $25  1  sent. 

<^).  Had  you  sent  Mr.  Eaum  any  money  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  ask  Collector  Mott  or  Deputy  Collector  (iillespie 
what  became  of  the  money  ?- — A.  I  was  intheoftice  when  another  check 
was  due,  and  I  asked  Mr.  Coite  what  became  of  the  other.  He  said  I 
Avould  have  to  see  the  collector  about  that;  he  did  not  know  anything 
al)out  it. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  pay  any  office  expenses;  were  you  ever  assessed  for 
that  purpose  ? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  1  per  cent,  on  my  salary.  I  don't  remem- 
ber how  much  I  j^aid. 

Q.  You  know  of  others  Laving  paid  tbe  same  assessment,  do  you? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  several  paid  I  know  of. 

Q.  For  both  purposes — office  expenses  and  the  campaign  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  Have  you  an  idea,  or  have  you  heard  or  understood  from  anybody 
connected  with  the  service,  how  much  it  all  amounted  to? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  how  many  officers  and  employes  there  were  in  that 
collection  district  at  that  time? — A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not. 

Q.  Therefore  you  cannot  form  an  idea? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  understood  they  were  all  being  assessed  one  month's  salary? — 
A.  All  that  I  knew  were  being  assessed  the  same  way. 

Q.  Did  Mr.  Gillespie  give  you  any  understanding  as  to  that  when  he 
asked  you  to  subscribe  one  month's  salary;  did  he  say  that  was  what 
the  others  were  doing? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  AVhat  are  your  i)olitics  ? — A.  I  am  a  Eepublican. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  When  Mr.  Gillespie  brought  you  the  check,  and  asked  you  to  give 
that  amount  to  the  campaign  fund,  you  say  you  signed  the  check;  did 
you  do  so  voluntarily? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  signed  the  check. 

Q.  You  were  willing  to  contribute  that  amount? — A.  He  had  not  told 
me  the  amount,  but  that  the  rest  had  signed,  and  I  told  him  I  would. 

Q.  This  was  your  check  for  July,  1880? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  how  long  after  July  it  was  when  you  signed  it  ? — 
A.  I  don't.  It  seems  to  me  It  was  in  the  month  of  July  he  brought  it 
to  me. 

Q.  How  long  after  that  was  it,  that  you  received  this  letter  thanking 
you  for  your  contribution? — A.  1  don't  remember  how  long. 

Q.  It  must  have  been  along  in  the  fall  of  the  year? — A.  I  don't  re- 
member what  the  date  of  the  letter  was;  I  don't  remember  what  I  did 
with  the  letter. 

Q.  Have  you  not  got  the  letter  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  said  you  think  it  was  from  Mr.  E.aum  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  feel  quite  sure  about  that  ? — A.  I  think  his  name  was  signed 
to  it,  sir :  I  am  not  positive. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  what  the  letter  said;  was  it  just  simply  thank- 
ing you  for  your  contribution  of  $25  ? — A.  There  was  more  than  that  in 
it,  ])ut  I  don't  remember  what  it  was. 

(»>.  At  the  time  did  you  understand  it  was  a  receipt  or  acknowledg- 
ment from  some  one  that  you  had  contributed  to  this  fund  for  campaign 


10  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

expenses! — A.  I  did  not  know  what  it  was  for;  I  had  never  sent  them 
any  money. 

Q.  Did  you  write  to  ]Mr.  Eauni  and  ask  him  wluit  it  meant '? — A.  No, 
sir. 

Q.  Wlien  you  went  back  to  the  office  you  talked  to  Deputy  Collector 
Coite  about  it  t — A.  AVhen  he  came  with  the  check  I  asked  him  what 
became  of  the  July  check.  He  said  he  did  not  know ;  I  would  have  to 
see  the  collector  about  that. 

Q.  Did  you  show  Mr.  Coite  this  letter  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  tell  him  about  it  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  I  never  told  anybody 
about  it. 

Q.  You  don't  know  to  this  day  what  that  letter  meant  f — A.  I  don't 
know  who  sent  the  money. 

Q.  You  don't  kuow  what  it  meant  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  never  asked  any  explanation  about  it  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Is  the  letter  sent  to  you  in  existence? — A.  I  don't  kuow  where 
it  is. 

Q.  Have  you  looked  for  it  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Will  you,  when  you  go  home,  look  for  it  ? — A.  I  have  been  in  sev- 
eral places  since  then,  and  don't  kuow  where  it  is. 

Q.  Will  you  make  search  for  it  when  you  get  home  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Will  you  send  it  to  the  committee? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  how  long  this  assessment  for  office  expenses 
lasted? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Can  you  fix  the  time  when  that  was  made  ? — A.  ,No,  sir. 

Q.  You  do  not  remember  whether  there  was  a  deficiency  in  the  ap- 
propriation ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  who  asked  you  to  do  that  ? — A.  I  do  not. 

Q.  How  was  it  done  ?  Was  it  kept  out  of  your  pay,  or  were  you  asked 
to  give  1  per  cent.  ? — A.  Just  asked  to  give  1  per  cent.,  and  when  I  drew 
the  check  I  paid  it.     When  I  was  away  I  sent  it  back  to  them. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  Do  you  know  who  was  chairman  of  the  Republican  State  executive 
committee  that  year  ? — A.  No,  sir. 
Adjourned  till  10  a.  m.  June  8. 


Washinciton,  D.  C,  June  8,  1882. 
The  committee  met  at  10  o'clock  a.  m. 
A.  D.  COWLES  recalled  and  examined. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Qiu'Stion.  Do  you  recollect  tlie  iiulictment  against  R.  A.  Cobb? — 
Answer.  No,  sir;  I  do  not  recollect  the  indictment,  but  1  am  satisfied 
that  he  wiis  indicted  in  the  rnited  States  court  at  our  place. 

i}.  In  the  court  of  which  you  are  deputy  clerk  ? — A.  1  thiidv  proba- 
bly liefore  I  had  anything  to  do  with  the  olli(;e. 

().  Wnw  yon  <'ver  seen  iiis  in<lictment  on  the  record? — A.  I  don't 
i'ememl)er,  but   I  ;ini  sat  islied  it  is  there. 

().  Do  yon  know  wiiat  has  becionu',  of  the  indictment? — A.  No,  sir; 
I  don't  know  the  disposition  ol'  tiie  cas<>. 

(}.  !)(•  yon  know  what  he  was  indicted  Ibr^— A.  1  think  for  comjdi- 
cit\  in  liands  of  som«'  kind. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  11 

Q.  He  was  a  revenue  officer  ? — A.  Tliat  was  what  lie  was  discharged 
from  the  revenue  for. 

i).  Do  you  kuow  how  h)n*>-  it  was  before  lie  was  restored  .'—A.  H^o, 
sir ;  but  he  was  restored, 

Q.  And  is  still  a  revenue  officer? — A.  I  don't  know  wlietlier  he  is  at 
l)resent  or  not.     I  know  he  was  after  this  indictment. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  what  disposition  was  made  of  the  indictment  ? — 
A.  No,  sir ;  I  don't. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  disposition  was  made  of  the  indictment  against 
William  S.  Pearson   and  Nick  Lillington  and  others? — A.  I  don''t. 

Q.  You  know  they  were  indicted  ? — A.  No,  sir.  That  was  several 
years  ago  if  so.  I  have  oidy  been  connected  with  the  court  about  three 
years.     That  was  before  I  had  anything  to  do  with  it. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  men  who  have  been  discharged  from  office, 
or  who  have  failed  to  get  assignment,  because  of  their  refusal  to  divide 
with  the  distillers? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Has  any  one  told  you  that  such  has  been  the  case;  that  they  ha<l 
been  refused  assignment  because  they  would  not  divide  their  pay  with 
the  distillers  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  Mr.  J.  li.  Howell  told  me  that  a  man  made 
a  proposition  of  that  kind  to  him  ;  at  least  it  did  not  come  in  so  inan>' 
words  ;  they  have  a  secret  language  of  their  own,  and  he  understood  it 
to  mean  that  he  had  to  divide.  He  did  not  accede  to  the  proposition, 
and  the  man  refused  to  take  him. 

Q.  He  was  not  assigned  to  that  place? — A.  Not  assigned. 

Q.  Did  Mr.  O.  M.  Barkley  ever  tell  you  that  he  had  been  through 
some  experience  of  that  kind  with  Mr.  Eliason? — A.  I  heard  him  say 
that  Colonel  Eliason  wanted  his  check. 

Q.  Colonel  Eliason  was  a  distiller? — A.  Y"es,  sir;  and  Barkley  was 
storekeeper. 

Q.  Colonel  Eliason  asked  him  for  his  check.  What  did  he  say  took 
place  1 — A.  He  said  he  would  not  give  it  to  him,  and  they  had  a  kind 
of  row,  and  somebody  else  was  assigned  to  the  distillery ;  that  is  my 
impression. 

Q.  Barkley  was  removed  from  that  distillery? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  And  somebody  else  was  assigned  to  it? — A.  I  don't  know  whether 
he  was  removed  or  quit  of  his  own  accord,  but  another  assignment  was 
made. 

Q.  He  went  away  from  there,  and  another  man  was  put  in  his  place  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  know  anything  of,  or  ever  see  or  hear  of  a  circular  letter 
from  the  collector's  office  inquiring  as  to  the  politics  of  all  the  officers  ? — 
A.  No,  sir;  I  never  saw  it. 

Q.  Did  you  hear  of  such  a  letter? — A.  I  could  not  say  positively 
whether  I  ever  did  or  not;  my  impression  is  I  never  heard  of  the  letter. 
I  suppose  that  was  after  my  connection  with  the  office. 

By  Senator  McDill: 

Q.  With  regard  to  the  indictment  against  Mr.  Cobb,  I  understand 
you  that  you  have  no  knowledge  about  it,  only  a  general  impression? — 
A.  Just  my  impression.  I  have  heard  others  say  he  was  indicted  in 
the  United  States  court,  and  Dr.  Mott,  in  his  list  of  those  discharged, 
puts  him  down  as  discharged  for  complicity  in  frauds. 

Q.  You  never  saw  the  indictment,  and  know  nothing  about  it,  nor  the 
reason  for  his  discharge? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Except  the  reason  given  to  the  public  by  Dr.  Mott  ? — A.  By  Dr. 
Mott. 


12  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  You  do  uot  kuow  whether  Pearsou  aud  Lillingtou  were  iudicted  ? — 
A.  Ko,  sir. 

Q.  Where  does  Howell  live  ? — A.  lu  Statesville. 

Q.  Is  he  living  there  now? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Y'ou  do  not  know  anything-  about  this  j^ropositiou  made  to  ]\Ir. 
Howell,  except  what  he  told  you? — A.  I  don't  know  a  thing  about  it. 

Q.  And  what  he  told  you  Avas  that  a  man  talked  to  him  in  a  secret 
language? — A,  In  some  language. 

Q.  And  then  Howell  told  you  what  he  understood? — A.  What  he  un- 
derstood. 

Q.  That  is  all  you  know  about  the  proposition  1 — A.  All  I  know. 

Q.  In  the  Barkley  case,  Colonel  Eliason  was  a  distiller? — A.  Y^es, 
sir. 

Q.  And  Barkley  told  you  that  Eliason  wanted  his  check? — A.  Asked 
him  tor  his  check. 

Q.  He  would  not  give  it  to  him  and  they  had  a  row  about  it?  — A. 
They  had  what  might  be  called  a  row. 

Q.  And  the  next  thing  was  that  Barkley  left  that  distillery  and  some- 
body else  was  assigned  to  it  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Y'ou  do  not  kuow  whether  Barkley  requested  to  be  removed,  nor 
anythiug  about  it? — A.  No,  sir;  I  don't  know  the  circumstances. 

Q.  Y'ou  never  saw  the  circular  from  the  collector's  office  asking  about 
the  politics  of  the  officers? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

AV.  G.  Bogle  recalled  aud  examined. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

(Question.  Do  you  know  of  the  circular  letter  addressed  to  the  officers 
inquiring  as  to  their  politics? — Answer.  Yes,  sir;  I  got  a  letter  of  that 
kind. 

Q.  Could  you  produce  it  to  me? — A.  No,  sir. 

(^.  Whom  was  it  signed  by? — A.  I  have  forgotten  whether  it  was 
signed  by  Dr.  Mott  or  not.     My  impression  is  it  was. 

Q.  At  all  events,  it  purported  to  come  from  that  office? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
and  I  answered  to  that  office. 

Q.  What  was  the  substance  of  that  letter?  Give  it  from  your  recol- 
lection.— A,  I  don't  think  I  can  give  it.  It  wanted  to  know  what  iny 
jtolitics  were.     That  was  the  meaning  of  it — all  I  remember,  sir. 

(,>.  Do  you  know  if  that  letter  was  addressed  to  the  officers  generally  ? — 
A.  I  tliijik  it  was. 

(^>.  It  was  a  circular,  or  scnncthing  of  that  sort? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  anybody  tliat  was  discharged  for  failing  to  comply 
witli  the  re(piirements  of  the  collector  in  regard  to  voting? — A.  Only 
Cai)tain  Piice,  iis  I  stated  yesterday. 

(,).  J)o  you  know  anything  about  a  letter  addressed  by  Commissioner 
I'aum  to  the  officers  of  that  district,  incpiiring  if  they  liad  received  all 
tlicir  ])ay  from  tlic  collector,  &c.  ?  IN'rluips  (handing  letter)  that  will 
icfVcsh  your  r(M;«»lh'cti()n. — A.  (Iteading.)  Yes,  sir;  that  is  the  letter. 

Ijttcr  marked  l''.xhibit  1,  as  follows: 

llxminT  1. 

WASiiiN(iT()N,  .fa)i'y2C>,  1882. 
Siir:  It  lias  bi'fi)  ri'|Mirli'(|  In  this  ()rii<i'  lli.il  Driiccr.s  and  ('iii|>l(>y6.s  in  the  sixth  dis- 
trict of  N(irtli  Caiiiliiia  liavc  nul  ii'idivcd  iVuiii  llic  collector  tlio  nioiM\v  <liic  tlioin  for 
llicir  sci-vi<i's.  Voii  will  please  state  explicitly  'ly  return  mail  whether  Collector M^tt 
is  iiidelited  fo  yon  on  account  of  any  receipt  which  yon  hav(^  ;;ivcn  to  him  by  virtue 
of  your  services  jis  an  orijier  or  cniployi'>  of  I  he  government.    'I'his  inqniry  is  not  made 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  13 

upon  the  theory  that  this  office  believes  Dr.  Mott  to  have  been  derelict,  but  because 
liis  official  conduct  in  this  regard  has  by  certain  parties  been  brought  in  (question. 
Respectfully, 

(iREEN  B.  RAUM, 

Commissioner. 

Q.  Is  that  ;i  copy  of  tlie  letter? — A.  That  is  a  copy  of  the  Commis- 
sioner's letter. 

(}.  Did  you  see  the  original  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  Will  you  say  whether  you  know  anything  about  how  that  Avas 
communicated  by  the  collector  to  the  officers,  and  whether  he  dictated 
the  form  of  reply  they  were  to  make  to  it? — A.  I  don't  remember  about 
tliat. 

Q.  Perhaps  (handing  another  letter)  that  will  refresh  your  recollec- 
tion?— A.  (Eeading.)  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Just  explain  that  paper  you  have  in  your  hands,  if  you  please. 

Letters  marked  Exhibit  2,  as  follows: 

Exhibit  2. 
"  Copy  this." 
"Write  some  thing  like  this." 

Statesvillk,  N.  C, 

Jairy  28,  1882. 
Hon.  Grken  B.  Raum, 

Commissioner  Int.  licvenue,  Washington,  D.  C: 
Sir:  Replying  to  your  letter  of  the  2t3tli  iust.,  asking  whether  Collector  Mott  is  in- 
debted to  me  on  account  of  any  receipt  which  I  have  given,  &c.,  I  have  the  honor  to 
inform  you  that  I  have  always  received  ray  pay  promptly,  and  that  the  coHector  does^ 
not  owe  me  anything  at  all. 
Respectfully, 

.     "  O.  M.  BARKLEY, 

U.  S.  S.  <;•  G. 

\  Statesville,  N.  C, 

Jan'y  31,  1882. 
Hon.  C.  J.  FOLOER, 

Secretary  of  the  Treasury,  Washington,  D.  C. : 
Sir:  The  foregoing  is  a  true  and  exact  copy  of  a  letter  accompanying  one  of  in- 
quiry to  the  specified  storekeeper  and  ganger  relative  to  certain  charges,  &c.,  pre- 
ferred against  the  collector.  Whether  this  form  for  a  reply  was  issued  from  the  collec- 
tor's office  of  this  district  or  from  the  office  of  the  Commissioner  Int.  Revenue  at 
Washington  I  am  unable  to  say.  The  letter  of  inquiry  was  signed  by  Hon.  Green 
B.  Raum. 

Very  respectfully, 

W.  G.  BOGLE. 

The  foregoing  form  was  not  signed  by  Mr.  Barkley  himself,  although  marked  so, 
and  by  referring  to  his  letter,  dated  Jan'y  31,  1882,  you  will  tind  that  another  person 
answered  for  him. 

A.  It  seems  that  Mr.  Barkley  got  this  form  of  letter,  in  compajiy 
with  a  letter  from  the  Commissioner,  to  answer  by,  showing  Mr.  Bark- 
ley how  to  answer  the  Commissioner's  letter. 

Q.  That  form  of  answer  went  out  with  a  copy  of  the  Commissioner's 
letter  to  each  officer — went  to  Mr.  O,  M.  Barkley? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I 
don't  know  only  as  to  Mr.  Barkley. 

Q.  I  see  ill  a  note  appended  there  that  that  answer  was  not  signed 
by  Mr.  Barkley  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q,  Although  it  purported  to  be  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  DUX  somebody  else  sign  the  answer  form  and  send  it  on  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Where  did  you  get  that  information  ? — A.  I  think  from  the  gen- 
tleman that  signed  Mr.  Barkley's  name. 


14  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Who  was  he  ?— A.  Mr.  Hall  Caldwell. 

(}.  Did  he  tell  you  he  signed  the  answer  for  Barkley  ! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  Barkley  was  present  or  not  at  the  time,  or 
had  authorized  him  to  sign  it  ? — A.  I  don't  remember.  I  think  Mr. 
Barkley  authorized  him  to  sign  it,  and  gave  him  the  letter  from  the 
commissioner,  and  also  this  form  of  answer,  and  told  him  to  answer. 

Q.  And  he  answered  for  Barkley  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Was  Mr.  Hall  Caldwell  an  ofiieer  of  the  revenue  department? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Were  these  marginal  remarks  in  the  original  letter  that  you 
copied  this  from  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  (Quoting.)  ''Copy  this."  "  Write  something  like  this"  ? — A.  Y^es, 
sir. 

Q.  Do  yon  know  Avhether  these  prepared  forms  and  answers  went 
ont  to  anybody  else  except  Mr.  Barkley  ? — A.  I  don't  remember,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  any  one  telling  yon  to  that  effect  ? — A.  No,  sir ; 
I  don't  now  remember. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  Y^ou  wrote  this  letter  addressed  to  Mr.  Folger,  signed  W.  G.  Bogle 
(indicating  Exhibit  2)  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  Y^on  say  yon  do  not  know  whether  the  form  that  is  on  the  other 
side  of  this  paper,  marked  Exhibit  2,  was,  with  another  letter  from  the 
commissioner,  sent  to  Mr.  Barkley  ? — A.  I  don't  know,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  do  not  know  anything  about  that,  except  by  the  state- 
ment of  the  person  who  wrote  the  letter? — A.  I  saw  the  letter. 

Q.  Y'ou  saw  the  letter? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  that  is  the  way  I  got  a  copy  of 
the  form  and  also  the  Commissioner's  letter. 

Q.  So  that  your  knowledge  of  its  having  been  sent  with  the  letter  is 
from  the  statement  of  the  person  who  showed  it  to  you  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Who  is  that  person?— A.  Mr.  Hall  Caldwell. 

Q.  Mr.  Barkley  never  told  j^ou  it  accompanied  it? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  j\rr.  Hall  Caldwell  told  you?— A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  What  did  Mr.  Caldwell  say  about  this  form? — A.  I  don't  remem- 
ber what  he  said  about  it. 

Q.  Did  he  tell  you  that  it  accompanied  the  letter  of  the  Commissioner? — 
A.  I  ])resume  so.     I  presume  it  did. 

Q.  You  do  not  recollect  ?  I  want  to  know  exactly  what  you  recollect 
Mr.  Caldwell  said. — A.  1  do  not  remend^er  what  he  said.  I  could  not 
say. 

Q.  Y^ou  would  not  undertake  to  say  that  he  told  you  the  form  accom- 
panied the  letter? — A.  1  would  not  say  he  did.  I  don't  remend)er  the 
conversation  about  it. 

Q.  All  that  you  distinctly  remember  is,  that  Mr.  Caldwell  told  you 
that  Mr.  Barkley  handed  him  the  Commissioner's  letter,  with  a  form  of 
a  letter  wliicii  was  to  be  written,  and  Uarkley's  name  signed  to  it? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

(}.  And  lli;it  tlicicupon  Mr.  Caldwell  did  sign  Barkley's  name  and 
sent  it  on.  N On  <h)  not  kiH)\v  whetlu'r  IJarldey  had  indicated  the  form 
of  the  h-tlcr  In*  wanted,  nor  how  it  came  that  that  form  was  a(l()i)te(l? — 
A     I  (h)n't  think  iSaildcy  got  up  that  Ibiin  of  reply. 

(,».   Do  yon  Know  whctiic)'  In*  <iid  or  did  not  1' — A.  No,  sir. 

().  \{}\[  siMijily  know  Cahlwcll  was  authorized  to  write  a  letter,  and  a, 
torni  was  furnislird  hini  IVoiii  which  he  was  to  write? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  r>ut  who  liiinishcd  the  lorin,  (n- wlnit  the  (;ircuHislaiM'es  were  of 
(iiinishing  the  h)iin,  yon  (h>  not  know  ? — A.  \o,  sir. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  15 

Q.  JSTo  auswer  was  dictated  to  you — you  got  a  similar  letter  of  in- 
quiry f — A.  I  dou't  reiiieuiber  that  1  did. 

Q.  When  you  were  in  oftico  you  got  a  circular  from  the  collector's 
office  asking-  about  politics'^ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

C^.  Was  it  asking  your  own  personal  politics,  or  about  the  politics  of 
the  officers  generally  ? — A.  About  my  own  politics. 

Q.  You  think  it  was  a  printed  form  of  circular,  or  was  it  a  written 
letter? — A.  I  don't  know  whether  printed  or  written,  but  it  was  a  cir- 
cular letter.  They  sometimes  wrote  them  and  sometimes  printed  them — 
the  circular  letters. 

Q.  In  what  way  do  you  distinguish  a  circular  letter  from  another  let- 
ter? Of  course  if  printed  you  understood  it  to  be  a  circular,  but  would 
you  know  the  particular  form  of  a  circular  letter,  outside  of  the  fact 
that  it  is  printed?  In  other  Avords,  if  I  should  write  you  a  letter,  you 
would  not  call  that  a  circular  letter"? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Why  do  you  say  then  that  it  was  a  circular  letter? — A.  1  think 
all  the  officers  got  the  same  letter. 

(}.  You  think  so;  probably  that  was  an  inference  you  formed  since 
Then,  or  at  the  time;  what  was  to  indicate  that  this  was  a  circular  let 
ter  ? — A.  I  don't  know,  sir.     I  don't  know  anything  to  indicate  it. 

Q.  May  it  not  be  that  you  have  got  the  idea  it  was  a  circular  letter — 
A.  (Interrupting).  It  might  have  been  marked  such. 

Q.  You  remember  at  the  time  you  thought  that  was  a  circular  letter, 
from  the  fact  that  every  one  was  getting  it? — A.  Y^es,  sir.  Every  one 
were  receiving  them  at  the  same  time  that  I  received  it. 

Q.  You  don't  know  whether  they  did  get  the  letter? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  All  that  was  in  the  letter  was  asking  your  politics? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  The  purpose  of  which  you  do  not  know? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Was  it  accompanied  by  any  threat  or  intimation  that  if  not  of  the 
right  i)olitics  you  would  have  to  go? — A.  I  think  not. 

Q.  It  was  just  a  simple  inquiry? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

John  C.  Barkley  sworn  and  examined. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  Where  do  you  reside  ? — Answer.  I  reside  in  Iredell  County, 
North  Carolina,  within  a  few  miles  of  Statesville. 

Q.  What  is  your  age  ? — A.  I  will  be  sixty-two  years  old  in  November. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  the  distilleries  of  W.  A.  Daniels? — 
A.  Y'es,  sir ;  I  know  where  they  are  located. 

Q.  Do  you  know  how  many  he  had  in  operation  last  year  and  pre- 
viously ? — A.  He  had  two  distilleries  on  what  is  called  the  Kickett 
place. 

Q.  What  was  tlieir  capacity  ? — A.  The  last  capacity  was  four  bushels 
a.  day  of  each  one. 

Q.  How  far  were  they  apart? — A.  I  suppose  seventy-tive  or  one  hun- 
dred yards.  It  is  on  the  same  branch.  They  got  the  water  from  the 
same  fountain. 

Q.  Do  you  know  if  they  were  originally  one? — A.  They  used  to  run 
at  the  ujjper  distillery,  with  an  eight-bushel  capacity  in  the  upper 
house  ;  then  they  divided  and  ran  four  bushels  in  each  one. 

<^.  AVliere  were  his  other  distilleries? — A.  He  had  another  distillery 
north  of  me  about  six  hundred  yards — what  is  called  the  Sharp  place 
distillery. 

(}.  How  far  was  it  from  the  other  two  ? — A.  A  little  over  half  a  mile, 
but  still  on  the  old  Eickett  place. 


16  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  It  liad  been  one  plantation  ? — A.  It  had  been  one  plantation. 

Q.  Did  he  have  any  other  distillery  besides  those  three? — A.  They 
have  another  distillery  that  the}^  started  up  on  the  White  plantation 
between  where  I  live  and  the  Kickett  place. 

Q.  How  far  was  it  from  the  other  three  ? — A.  Almost  directly  be- 
tween them.  You  start  to  go  up  from  the  Sharpe  distillery  and  run  off* 
an  air  line,  and  it  would  leave  the  Freeze  distillery  a  little  south  of  the 
other. 

Q.  How  far  was  the  farthest  one  from  the  other  farthest  one  ? — A. 
Three-quarters  of  a  mile  would  cover  the  whole  four. 

Q.  What  was  the  capacity  of  each  one  of  them? — A.  Four  bushels. 
Just  during  that  time,  or  a  short  time  previous  to  that,  I  signed  bonds 
to  that  effect,  which  I  suppose  \^  prima  facie  evidence  of  running  a  dis- 
tillery near  Hickory. 

Q.  That  was  in  an  adjoining  county  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  makes  five  distilleries  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  others  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  there  was  another  one 
running  up  at  what  was  called 

Q.  How  far  is  Hickory  from  Statesville  ? — A.  About  thirty-five  miles 
from  Statesville.  The  other  one  was  called  the  Home  distillery.  This 
was  at  his  own  place — probably  in  Alexander  County. 

Q.  That  makes  six  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  awj  other f — A.  Xo,  sir;  I  believe  not.  At  one 
time  he  had  run  what  was  called  the  Kumi)le  distillery. 

Q.  There  were  at  one  time  seven  in  operation.  Do  you  know  the  ca- 
pacity of  all  of  them? — A.  My  understanding  from '  Daniels  was  that 
they  were  all  four  bushels. 

Q.  How  many  of  these  were  in  his  own  name? — A.  All  in  his  own 
name,  so  far  as  my  information  goes,  except  the  Q.  D.  Freeze  distillery. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  he  had  any  hand  in  choosing  the  storekeepers 
for  these  various  distilleries? — A.  I  cannot  say  that  I  do — only  from 
hearsay. 

i}.  What  was  the  general  understanding  about  the  manner  in  which 
these  storekeepers  were  selected,  whether  the  distiller  had  anything  to 
say  in  the  selection  of  them? — A.  The  people  of  the  neighborhood — it 
was  a  very  common  rumor  in  the  neighborhood  that  if  Daniels  did  not 
get  who  he  wanted  as  storekeeper,  his  distilleries  would  stop.  I  know 
frequently  they  did  stop  and  then  start  up  again. 

Q.  Did  they  stop  and  start  with  the  same  storekeeper  ? — A.  There  was 
generally  a  ciiange. 

Q.  And  then  they  started  again? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  do  you  know  about  the  allegation  that  the  storekeepers  had 
to  divide  their  salaries  with  the  distillers? — \.  From  my  own  personal 
knowledge,  I  know  nothing  of  that.  I  have  heard  it  said  that  there 
was  a  (li\  i.sion  of  money  between  them,  but  I  do  not  know  it. 

(^>.  Did  you  ever  hear  any  <listiller  or  storekeeper  say  that  ? — A.  I 
lieiird  one  say  so. 

(,».  Who  was  it?— A.   \N'.  A.  II.  Moore. 

iy  lie  \v;is  the  storekeeper .' — A.  lie  was  the  storekeeper  at  the  (^>. 
D.  Freeze  distillery. 

(}.  (.}.  I).  I''r<'eze  was  the  in:in  In;  said  (li\ided  with  him? — A.  No,  sir; 
he  sjiiil  \V.  A.  Diiniels,  lie  was  the  ])ro])er  owner;  Freeze  was  only  a 
l)(»gMs  mime.  lie  said  Diiniels  took  his  ehec-k  and  drew  his  money. 
TIm'K^  w;is  a  de[)t  coming  to  me,  from  Moore,  and  I  talked  with  him 
aluint  it  on«*  day.  Wi'  said,  "Damn  it,  have  you  not  got  that  money 
yet  .'     D;iniels  promised  to  i)!iy  it  when  he  took  my  check  and  drew  my 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  17 

money."  He  said,  "I  have  not  got  but  about  thirty-five  or  forty  dollars 
for  my  services  here."  I  think  his  services  commenced  in  September, 
and  this  was  about  the  1st  of  January  following. 

Q.  During  that  time  he  had  not  received  but  thirty-five  or  forty  dol- 
lars for  his  services  ! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Where  is  Daniels'  residence? — A.  He  is  down  in  Statesville.  He 
got  home  from  Virginia  a  few  days  ago. 

Q.  Is  he  still  distilling  ? — A.  He  is  running  what  is  called  the  upper 
house,  on  the  Eickett  Branch. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  the  time  that  Daniels'  storehouse 
and  distillery  was  robbed  ? — A.  There  have  been  several  robberies 
there  at  three  or  four  different  warehouses ;  but  last  October  at  this 
Freeze's  still-house  there  was  a  big  steal  or  robbing  of  some  seven 
hundred  odd  gallons  of  whisky. 

Q.  State  what  you  know  about  it;  you  were  concerned,  I  believe,  as 
the  bondsman  ? — A.  I  know  cf  it,  for  I  was  on  the  warehouse  and  dis- 
tillers' bond.  On  the  25th  of  October,  that  house  was  entered  by  a 
key — that  is  what  was  sworn  to  by  Mr.  Coite — and  robbed  of  nineteen 
barrels  of  liquor  ranging  from  forty  to  forty-eight  gallons  to  a  barrel. 
There  were  not  nineteen,  two  had  been  taken  out  of  the  house,  had 
been  tax-paid,  and  there  was  one  "lost  tribe"  or  barrel.  One  barrel 
never  had  been  accounted  for  in  any  way.  There  were  about  $077  of 
taxes.  The  house  where  the  liquor  was  taken  out  of — I  was  there  with 
several  of  my  neighbors,  with  Mr.  McLeer  and  Mr.  Brooks,  govern- 
ment agents  — there  was  no  mark  of  robbery  on  the  house  in  any  shape 
or  form.  We  examined  it  carefully  because  the  house  could  have  been, 
broken  into,  but  it  was  not  broken  into,  and  was  only  entered  by  a 
key. 

Q.  That  still-house  was  then  under  suspension  ? — A.  Yes,  'sir ;  under 
suspension. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whose  duty  it  was  to  have  charge  of  that  key  when 
the  distillery  was  under  suspension  f — -A.  The  general  storekeeper  was 
the  only  one — you  know  more  about  the  law  than  I  do.  Col.  W.  Sharpe 
shippetl  one  barrel  of  this  liquor  away  from  there.  I  think  Mr.  Bogle 
took  out  one  also. 

Q.  Who  was  the  general  storekeeper  of  that  district"? — A.  I  am  not 
sure  whether  it  was  Col.  Wash  Sharpe  or  who  it  was.  It  belonged 
strictly  to  Doctor  AY  alter  Mott,  the  general  storekeeijer  and  ganger. 
That  is  in  his  district. 

Q.  Was  he  present  when  you  made  the  examination — General  Store- 
keeper Mott? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Who  made  the  discovery  and  seizure  showing  the  liquor  had 
been  moved  out  of  the  house  ? — A.  It  was  common  neighborhood  rumor,, 
because  it  is  a  thickly  populated  country  and  the  wagons  rattled  \'ery 
much  when  the  liquor  was  taken  out,  and  a  storekeeper  that  belonged 
to  another  distillery  below  passed  by  my  house  and  told  me  that  the 
stills  were  gone  out  of  the  house,  but  he  said,  "I  do  not  think  the  liquor- 
is  gone,  for  they  have  not  hurt  the  house."  That  quieted  me  a  little,, 
for  I  was  in  a  considerable  fret.  I  was  ignorant  of  all  these  things  ex- 
cept my  signature  on  the  bonds,  and  you  know  that  bore  very  hard  on 
the  old  man.  I  was  very  unwell  at  that  time.  Directly  afterward.s  Mr. 
Daniels  came  there  himself  and  informed  me  of  the  report  that  the  litjuor 
was  removed,  and  then  of  course  the  inquiries  ran  in  every  diiection 
and  facts  were  obtained  at  once.  There  were  enough  runners  there  to 
run  Washington  City  about  that  time. 

Q.  Can  you  state  where  the  liquor  was  found,  all  except  the  "lost 
S.  Mis.  IIG 2 


18  COLLFCTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

tribe"? — A.  Yes,  sir;  it  was  found  about  sixty  yards  northeast  of  the 
old  Eickett  building. 

f  Q.  How  far  from  tlie  warehouse  from  whence  it  had  been  removed  '? — 
A.  Between  four  and  six  hundred  yards. 

Q.  How  was  it  found  ? — A.  It  was  buried  there.  It  was  a  very  pro- 
lific piece  of  ground  ;  seventeen  barrels  of  whisky  were  found  in  ground 
that  was  plowed  the  day  before. 

Q.  It  was  a  quick  crop  ! — A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  cannot  raise  liquor  that  way. 

Q.  How  far  was  this  from  the  collector's  office  in  Statesville?  — A. 
Just  about  a  mile  and  a  half. 

Q.  Were  any  of  the  officers  from  the  collector's  office  present  in  help- 
ing to  make  the  search — Chief  Deputy  Coite  or  Collector  Mott ! — A. 
I  saw  Mr.  Morrison,  Mr.  Gill,  Mr.  McLeer,  and  Mr.  Brooks  there  that 
evening.  Mr.  Gill  lold  me  that  the  second  probe  he  made  into  the 
ground  he  found  a  barrel  of  whiskj^,  and  finding  one  he  found  seventeen. 

Q.  Did  any  storekeeper  or  ganger  ever  tell  you  that  he  could  not  get 
an  assignment  to  act  as  storekeeper  unless  he  agreed  to  divide  with  the 
distiller  ? — A.  One  man  told  me  he  did  not  ex])ect  to  get  any  position, 
from  this  fact,  that  he  would  not  divide  his  salary  with  anj-  man. 

Q.  Who  was  that? — A.  His  name  is  Thomas  Osborne,  a  brother  of 
John  Osborne. 

Q.  Do  you  know  how  long  he  had  been  a  storekeeper  without  assign- 
juent! — A.  He  had  just  come  and  took  charge  of  Daniels'  still-house; 
■whether  they  had  commenced  running  out  the  house  when  he  came 
there  I  am  not  able  to  say.  It  ran  out  and  consequently  he  went  away, 
and  I  do  not  know  why  it  was  that  it  did  not  start  up  any  more  with  him. 

Q.  He  told  you  he  did  not  expect  to  get  any  position  because  he 
would  not  divide? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  would  not  divide  with  any  man, 
and  did  not  expect  to  get  anything.  There  was  also  a  man — a  cousin's 
son  of  mine — by  the  name  of  Barkley ;  they  call  him  E.  Barkley .  I  heard 
him  and  Frank  Caldwell  talking.  He  said  he  would  not  divide,  but 
where  he  boarded  with  a  man  he  would  be  very  liberal  in  i)aying  his 
board. 

Q.  Was  he  a  storekeeper,  too  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  was  the  general  price  of  corn  whisky  in  that 

-country  ? — A.  The  price  varied  from  one  dollar  and  fifteen  cents  to  a 

dollar  forty  and  fifty  cents  a  gallon  by  the  barrel.     I  saw  it  go  off  at  a 

dollar  ten.     1  was  on  five  or  six  l)onds,  and  very  often  it  took  me  about 

]ialf  the  time  to  be  signing  bonds. 

(^).  Did  you  ever  hear  any  of  the  distillers  say  anything  about  making 
the  storekeepers  divide  their  pay  Avith  them? — A.  I  have  heard  Mr. 
Freeze  say  that  when  he  started  up  that  time  they  rather  ran  in  on  the 
boys;  tliat  Mr,  J.  X.  Sunnners  was  willing  to  divide  with  him.  They 
liad  a  sijuabble  over  it.  He  had  not  got  his  assignment,  and  he  had 
just  tliiown  out  his  sloji  before  ]\li'.  INlcLeer  and  Mr.  Crawford  got  there. 
J  told  liini  1h'  onght  jiol  to  iiiii  any  risk  with  my  name  on  his  bonds. 

(/.  What  did  you  say  about  Mr.  Summers? — A.  Mr.  Freeze  told  me 
Alt-.  Irad  agreed  to  (livi<le. 

■Q.  Is  there  any  otlier  fact  that  you  know  that  would  further  the 
«)bje<;tsof  this  committee? — A.  1  do  not  know;  I  have  told  you  that 
Mr.  Coite  swore  to  llie  trnth  that  the  liouse  was  entered  oidy  by  a  key. 

<^.  Do  you  know  of  any  men  being  diseharge<l  or  refuse<l  assignment 
on  account  of  their  iK)lities  ? — A.   1  liave  iieard  it  so  said. 

Q.  Have  you  heard  any  of  the  |);irties  say  so? — A.  I  have  heard 
-Tolin  I'.iiiley  say  so. 

(^>.   \\;is  he  slorekeejiei-  and  ganger? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  liad  voted  the 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT*  OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  19 

Democratic  ticket,  and  consequently  lie  had  to  go  np.  It  was  fre- 
quently said  tbrough  tlie  neigliborliood  that  all  that  had  ^oted  that  way 
would  go  up.  A  great  many  Democrats  got  in  there  for  three  or  four 
dollars  a  day.     Bill  Dulan  never  got  much  patronage. 

Q.  Never  got  assigned  to  much  work  ?— xi.  No,  sir.  James  F.  Watts, 
lie  refused  to  divide  and  refused  to  help  make  mashes. 

Q.  What  do  you  mean  by  that? — A.  To  assist  the  distiller  in  making 
mashes. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  political  assessments  levied  upon 
the  ofticers  of  the  Ee venue  Department? — A.  Mr.  Dulan  told  me  lie 
was  notified  to  that  effect,  and  John  Kerr  Bailey  told  me  that  they 
had  been  assessed  and  refused  to  pay  it.  At  least  Bailey  did.  I  think 
Dulan  did  the  same.  Mr.  Bailey  told  me  that  he  never  paid  anything 
towards  it. 

Q.  What  became  of  him  ?— A.  I  do  not  know  whether  he  resigned. 
He  is  in  Lexington,  N.  C,  in  a  tobacco  factory. 

Q.  Out  of  the  department  now  f — A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  Where  does  this  man  Dulan  live  ?— A.  In  Statesville  Township, 
3  miles  from  Statesville,  on  the  Western  North  Carolina  Kailroad. 

Q.  His  name  is  William  M.  Dulan  f — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  stated  that  Mr.  James  F.  Watts  refused  to  divide  and  help 
make  mashes.  Do  you  know  that  of  your  own  knowledge  ? — A.  That 
is  just  what  he  told  me. 

Q.  You  don't  know  personally  about  that  ? — A.  No,  sir  ;  I  don't. 

Q.  Where  does  this  man  Summers  hve?— A.  I  think  he  lives  in 
Sharpsburg  Township,  in  North  Iredell. 

Q.  Mr.  Freeze,  the  distiller,  told  you  that  Summers  was  going  to  di- 
vide up  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  when  he  started  up  on  his  own  responsibility. 

Q.  Where  does  this  El  Barkley  live?— A.  He  lives  in  Catawba 
County. 

Q.  You  heard  him  talk  with  a  man  named  Caldwell,  and  he  told 
Caldwell  that  he  would  not  divide,  bnt  where  he  boarded  he  would  be 
liberal  in  paying  his  board  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  heard  him  say  that  in  Colo- 
nel Sharpe's  office. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  He  is  the  general  storekeeper  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  I  want  to  know  if,  at  times,  there  was  not  a  good  deal  of  disagree- 
ment between  storekeepers  and  distillers  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  They  are  a  little  inclined  to  quarrel  about  their  work  f — A.  Yes, 
sir ;  as  a  general  thing  most  of  the  storekeepers  were  not  lazy,  but  in- 
dustrious men,  and  did  not  mind  to  put  their  hand  to  the  work.  When 
one  oi'  these  lazy  ones  came  he  did  not  stay  very  long. 

Q.  He  wonld  not  help  to  do  certain  things  the  distillers  wanted  done, 
such  as  making  mash?— A.  Yes,  sir;  it  is  a  very  heavy  job. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  in  the  discharge  of  his  duties,  he  ought  to 
help  make  mash  ? — A.  He  had  no  right,  according  to  my  understand- 
ing of  tlie  law,  to  do  this,  but  as  a  favor — a  friendly  thing — he  did  it. 

Q.  And  this  difficulty  between  these  men  often  came  from  something 
of  that  kind? — \.  That  was  my  understanding. 

Q.  Mr.  Daniels  liked  to  have*^  those  kind  of  men  as  storekeepers  who 
would  help  about  these  things  ?— A.  That  would  put  their  hands  to 
work. 


20  COLLECTION    OF    INTMINAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  I  suppose,  of  course,  it  is  tlie  fact  that  if  a  distiller  wanted  to  quit 
work,  by  giving  notice,  he  could  do  so  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  any  distiller 
could  do  that. 

Q.  So  that  if  a  distiller  had  a  storekeeper  that  did  not  suit,  if  he 
could  not  get  rid  of  him  any  other  way,  he  could  just  quit  work  I — A. 
Yes,  sir ;  suspend  at  once. 

Q.  And  the  storekeeper  had  to  go  away  and  take  his  chances  of  get- 
ting a  new  assignment,  if  the  old  distillery  did  not  start  up  again  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

M.  C.  Williams  sworn  and  examined. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  Where  do  you  reside  ? — Answer.  Statesville,  N.  C. 

Q.  What  is  your  business  at  present  ? — A.  I  am  clerk  of  the  inferior 
court  of  Iredell  County. 

Q.  Are  you  a  son  of  Mr.  James  Williams  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Will  you  tell  me  if  he  has  ever  told  you  anything  about  assess- 
ments being  levied  upon  him  to  support  Eepublicau  newspapers  1 — A. 
Yes,  sir  ;  I  have  heard  him  say  something  about  paying  for  the  running 
of  a  newspaper. 

Q.  What  newspaper  was  it  ? — A.  I  don't  remember.  It  has  been 
three  or  four  years  ago  since  he  told  me  that — it  was  somewhere  out 
on  the  Western  2^orth  Carolina  Kailroad. 

Q.  What  did  he  say  to  you — the  substance  of  it ! — A.  He  did  not 
say  very  much  to  me  about  it.  I  heard  him  say  that  he  had  to  pay 
something  for  the  running  of  a  paper. 

Q.  That  was  over  and  above  the  assessments  for  the  Presidential 
campaign  that  these  other  witnesses  have  spoken  of? — A.  I  think  it 
was  during  the  campaign  for  Hayes. 

Q.  What  position  did  your  father  hold  in  the  Eevenue  Department  f 
— A.  He  was  a  storekeeper  at  that  time. 

Q.  What  position  does  he  hold  now  ? — A.  Storekeeper  and  ganger. 

Q,  Where  is  he  on  duty  at  present? — A.  In  Iredell  County,  about  six 
miles  from  Statesville. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  these  political  assessments  that  have 
been  spoken  of  here? — A.  I  don't,  sir;  I  have  heard  it  said  that  there 
were  assessments,  but  know  nothing  of  my  own  personal  knowledge. 

Q.  Do  you  have  any  idea  of  the  amount  raised  for  that  purijose  per 
annum? — A.  I  never  have  had  any  connection  with  the  revenue  my- 
self. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  this  alleged  division  of  salaries  be- 
tween the  storekeepers  and  distillers? — A.  I  have  heard  it  said  that 
tliey  divided;  I  know  nothing  delinite  about  it. 

('l.  Who  did  .you  hear  say  that;  I  mean  did  you  hear  any  revenue  of- 
ficer or  (lislilh-r  say  that? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  heard  a  distiller  say  he  could 
get  stoickccixMs  Ibr  half  ])rice. 

Q.  What  distilh-r  was  that?— A.  D.  F.  Stevenson,  of  Iredell  County. 

Q.  That  he  coiihl  get  slorckec'pers  for  half  i)rice? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.   Do  yon  know  whcllicr  lie  did  so  get  them  or  not  ? — A.  1  do  not. 

Q.  \'on  hcai'd  what  he  said  lie  couhl  do,  not  what  he  had  done? — A,. 
Yes,  sir. 

if.  Do  yon  know  who  were  storek('t'p(!i's  at  his  distillery? — A.  Williamr 
\V('stnioi('hiii«l. 

Q.  Jlow  hnig  did  he  stay  ? — A.   1  don't  know,  sir,  how  long  he  staid. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NOETH    CAROLINA.  21 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  changes  there  '? — A.  I  don't  think  there  was 
any  change;  he  suspended  atthat  place  and  put  up  at  another  place. 

Q.  With  the  same  storekeeper? — A.  Xo,  sir;  I  think  he  has  a  dilTer- 
ent  storekeeper  now  at  the  other  place. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  the  requirements  made  on  the  fQ- 
cers  as  to  voting  by  the  collector  of  the  district? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  man  discharged  for  not  voting  to  suit  t  col- 
lector ?— A.  I  think  I  heard  it  said  that  J.  K.  Bailey  had  been  disc'^  rged. 

Q.  That  is  the  gentleman  spoken  of  by  Mr.  Barkley! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q,  Do  you  know  of  any  one  who  failed  to  get  assignment  because  they 
would  not  agree  to  vote  right? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  Rev.  Mr.  Fesperman? — A.  I  do  know  him. 

Q.  Do  you  know  that  he  was  appointed  as  storekeeper  and  ganger? 
— A.  Yes,  sir;  I  heard  he  was. 

Q.  Did  he  ever  get  any  work? — A.  I  don't  really  know. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  heard  him  say  anything  about  it?— A.  No,  sir; 
never  did. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  Did  you  ever  have  any  talk  with  this  man  Bailey,  as  to  the  reason 
of  his  discharge  ? — A.  Never  did ;  just  heard  it. 

Q.  You  just  heard  it  outside  ? — A.  Outside ;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  It  may  or  may  not  have  been  true,  so  far  as  you  know  ? — A.  I  don't 
know  whether  it  is  true  or  not.  I  don't  know  anything  as  to  the  truth 
of  it. 

Q.  Did  you  say  you  heard  Mr.  Stevenson  say  he  could  get  store- . 
keepers  at  half  price  ? — A.  I  heard  him  say  it ;  that  he  could  get  store- 
keepers at  half  price. 

Q.  Where  did  Mr.  Stevenson  run  his  distillery  at  that  time? — A.  Atthat 
time  I  don't  think  he  was  running  at  all.  He  was  talking  about  run- 
ning and  what  he  could  make. 

Q.  He  did  not  say  he  had  got  them  at  half  price,  but  could  do  it  ? — 
-A.  I  don't  think  he  had  any  storekeepers  at  that  time ;  he  was  just  talk- 
ing about  starting  up  a  distillery. 

Q.  That  was  one  of  his  calculations,  that  he  could  get  the  storekeepers 
at  half  price  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  he  expected  to  derive  some  profit  from  that;  whether  he  suc- 
ceeded in  that,  you  don't  know  I — A.  I  don't  know. 

Q.  You  say  that  you  do  not  yourself  know  of  any  fact  with  regard  to 
storekeepers  and  distillers  dividing.  All  you  know  is  what  you  have 
heard  ? — A.  All  I  know. 

Q.  Your  father  is  a  storekeeper  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  was  such,  away  back  in  the  time  of  the  Hayes  campaign  ? — 
A.  I  think  so.     I  am  not  positive. 

Q.  He  told  you  he  had  to  pay  something  to  support  a  newspaper  ? — 
A.  In  Western  North  Carolina ;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  he  tell  you  the  politics  of  the  paper  ? — A.  In  the  interests  of 
the  Republican  party. 

Q.  Did  he  say  any  one  had  requested  him  to  do  that,  or  that  he  had 
done  it '? — A.  I  don't  remember  just  exactly  what  he  did  say.  I  don't 
think  he  had  to  pay.  I  think  he  was  just  anticipating  he  would  have  to 
pay. 

Q.  You  don't  know  whether  he  ever  paid  or  not  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  He  had  anticipations  that  he  would  have  to  pay  something  to  sup- 
port a  newspaper  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Was  it  the  anticipation  he  was  dreading,  the  anticipation  that  he 


22  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

would  have  to  pay,  or  expecting  to  do  it  ?  Did  he  express  himself  on 
that  point  ? — A.  t  don't  know  that  he  expressed  himself  5  he  was  think- 
ing he  would  be  required  to  pay. 

Q.  He  did  not  say  whether  he  was  willing  or  not  ? — A.  Willing  or  not. 

Q.  You  don't  know  whether  he  ever  did  or  not  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

^Y.  G.  Bogle  recalled  and  examined. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  Do  you  know  anything  about  this  check  that  Colonel  Eliason 
wanted  from  O.  M.  Barkley  ? — Answer.  I  heard  Mr.  Barkley  speaking  of 
it  the  day  before  I  started  up  here. 

Q.  AThat  did  he  say? — A.  He  and  J.  B.  Howell  and  myself  were 
talking  in  regard  to  this  committee,  and  he  mentioned  this  check  that 
Colonel  Eliason  wanted  from  him.  He  said  he  was  turned  oft'  because 
he  would  not  give  Colonel  Eliason  the  check. 

Q.  The  check  for  his  monthly  pay  ! — A.  Yes,  air. 

Q.  Colonel  Eliason  was  the  distiller  whom  he  was  storekeeper  for  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  He  asked  him  for  his  monthly  check ;  he  refused  to  give  it  to  him, 
and  he  was  discharged  for  that  reason  ? — A.  He  said  so ;  yes,  sir. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  wiio  was  that !— A.  O.  M.  Barkley. 

Q.  You  say  he  has  been  discharged  ? — A.  I  don't  know  whether  his 
commission  has  been  revoked  or  not;  he  was  discharged  from  that  dis- 
tillery. 

Q.  Did  the  distillery  stop,  or  was  he  assigned  somewhere  else  ? — A. 
No,  sir;  another  storekeeper  was  assigned  in  his  stead  at  that  dis- 
tillery. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  the  reason  for  it,  except  as  Mr.  Barkley  stated 
it  I— A.  That  is  all  I  know. 

Q.  It  may  have  been  there  were  other  reasons  ? — A.  Perhaps  there 
were ;  I  only  know  what  Mr.  Barkley  said. 

Q.  Where  does  Mr.  Barkley  live  f — A.  In  Statesville. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  Barkley  complained  to  the  collector  or  not 
of  that  treatment  ? — A.  I  do  not,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  he  informed  the  collector  of  that  arrange- 
ment?— A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Eliason,  liarkley,  and  the  collector  are  all  in  the  same  town  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Adjourned  till  June  10,  10  a.  m. 


Washington,  D.  C,  June  10,  1882. 
'i'lic  coiiiiiiittee  met  at  10  a.  m. 
.].  A.  Clark  sworn  and  examined. 

Ily  tlie  Chairman  : 
(JtiU'slion.  WJMMc  do  you  resi(l«3  .' — Answer.   In  Atlanta,  (la. 
Q.  Were  you  ever  at  one  time  connected  with  the  collection  ofiice  of 
tlie  sixth  North  Carolina  revenue  district? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
Q.  When? — A.  I  was  connected  with  it  up  to  May  15,  '74. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  23 

Q.  In  what  capacity  ? — A.  Chief  clerk. 

Q.  lu  the  collector's  office? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Can  jou  tell  us  anything  about  the  manner  that  you  observed^ 
while  yon  were  connected  with  the  office,  in  the  taking-  of  vouchers  for 
the  pay  of  any  officer,  or  employe,  or  for  any  extra  service  whatso- 
ever ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  The  government  allows  certain  men  to  do  certain 
parts  of  the  business.  We  had  no  assessors  then.  The  deputj"  collect- 
ors were  in  the  employ  of  the  collector  at  that  time,  while  I  was  there. 
The  storekeepers  and  gangers  got  their  pay  direct  from  the  Treasury 
Department ;  he  got  the  warrant  as  disbursing  agent,  and  then  he  dis- 
bursed the  money  according  to  their  vouchers  and  days  of  service. 

Q.  Will  you  explain  as  to  the  manner  in  which  those  vouchers  were 
made  out ! — A.  The  storekeepers  and  gangers  had  a  form  to  make 
them  on,  to  be  approved  by  the  collector;  the  same  form  as  the  deputy 
collectors.  They  all  had  to  be  made  according  to  the  work  done  and 
the  county  assigned  to  them — the  division  of  the  district  to  which  they 
were  assigned. 

Q.  What  I  want  to  know  is,  was  there,  or  was  there  not,  a  habit  or 
custom  in  the  office  to  make  out  vouchers  for  more  service  than  was 
actually  rendered? — A.  At  one  time  they  did  so.  About  the  time  of 
the  change  when  the  assistant  assessor  was  taken  away.  The  office  was 
abolished.  ^Xot  knowing  how  many  men  were  to  be  allowed,  I  myself 
made  vouchers  for  several  men  and  got  them  to  sign  them.  They  did 
not  draw  any  pay  unless  we  got  something  for  them.  Our  letter  of 
allowance  had  not  been  sent  on.  And  we  took  the  vouchers  of  several 
men.  We  did  not  know  what  we  would  get.  We  had  to  reorganize  the 
thing  then;  half  the  officers  had  gone  out.  We  expected  to  get  some- 
thing for  them .  The  men  we  could  get,  and,  in  that  mountainons  country y. 
we  needed  them.  The  understanding  with  the  men  who  took  the  special 
service  was,  that  if  we  could  get  any  compensation  allowed,  they  would 
be  appointed,  such  as  the  doctor  or  collector  saw  fit. 

Q.  You  say  that  you  frequently  made  vouchers  before  the  service  was 
rendered? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Who  made  out  the  vouchers  ? — A.  At  the  reorganization,  when  the 
office  of  assessor  and  assistant  assessor  was  abolished,  there  was  much 
more  work  for  the  deputy  collectors  to  do.  We  appointed  several  of 
them,  and  gave  them  commissions  as  special  deputies  to  take  reports  of 
distilleries  and  tobacco  manufactories — the  different  reports  for  the  dis^ 
trict.  Some  of  them  we  took  vouchers  for,  and  made  up  the  amount  as 
much  as  we  could  in  order  to  get  an  allowance  to  employ  the  men  to  do 
the  work. 

Q.  You  took  vouchers  for  as  much  as  you  could? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  mean  before  the  service  had  been  really  rendered  ? — A.  We 
were  running  the  district  then,  and  had  no  appropriation  made  for  the 
office — after  the  change.    After  the  assessor's  office  was  abolished. 

Q.  My  question  was,  whether  at  any  time  there  was  a  custom  to  take 
vouchers  for  more  than  was  due,  and  you  answer  in  this  way. — A.  That 
is  the  only  time  I  remember;  that  was  the  time  of  the  reorganization, 
and  we  did  not  know  what  we  would  be  allowed. 

Q.  Then  you  took  vouchers  for  what,  for  precisely  what  was  due  ! — 
A.  We  took  vouchers  from  the  men  who  helped  us  to  do  the  work,  in 
order  to  make  up  an  estimate  to  see  what  would  be  allowed. 

Q.  Was  the  amount  all  allowed  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Had  you  vouchers  then  for  more  than  was  allowed? — A.  Yes  sirj 
we  took  them  in  order  to  get  the  estimate. 

Q.  How  much  did  the  government  allow? — A.  I  don't  know,  sir. 


24  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  You  cut  the  voucliers  dowu?— A.  They  only  noted  the  men  al- 
loTred  in  the  account  we  gave.  I  dok't  know  how  many  deputies  there 
were  at  that  time.  It  has  been  eight  V^ars  since  I  had  anything  to  do 
with  the  office. 

Q.  Can  you  give  me  the  names  of  any  of  the  special  deputies'? — A. 
K.  W.  Lillington  and  Mcintosh. 

Q.  Did  you  not  take  a  number  of  special  deputies  into  office  at  that 
time? — A.  No,  sir.  We  took  about  the  number  of  deputies  we  thought 
we  would  require ;  that  the  collector  ought  to  have.  1  don't  remember 
the  names. 

Q.  You  took  the  vouchers  of  as  many  special  deputies  as  you  thought 
you  ought  to  have? — A.  Yes,  sir.  Some  of  those  men  were  drawing 
regular  pay  as  deputy  collectors. 

Q.  How  long  did  that  custom  prevail  ? — A.  Only  for  one  quarter. 

Q.  Why  was  it  stopped? — A.  The  letter  of  allowance  came  on,  allow- 
ing so  much  as  salary  for  deputies  and  so  much  for  assistant  clerk. 
Then  of  course  we  had  to  make  them  according  to  that.  Then  they 
made  a  new  form.     A  man  had  to  make  out  his  own  accounts. 

Q.  Was  there  not  an  investigation  of  that  matter  by  a  special  reve- 
nue agent? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Was  it  not  stopped  in  consequence  of  that  investigation  ? — A.  No, 
sir.    A  new  form  came.    The  collector  went  out. 

Q.  The  collector  was  discharged  on  that  account  ? — A.  I  suppose  so, 
sir. 

Q.  The  present  collector  ? — A.  Xo,  sir ;  Dr.  Mott. 

Q.  In  consequence  of  that  investigation ;  who  made  the  investiga- 
tion ?— A.  Mr.  Crane,  Mr.  J.  C.  Wheeler,  and  Fred.  Lutz. 

Q.  TMio  succeeded  you  as  chief  clerk  ? — A.  Mr.  Horah. 

Q.  When  was  Mr.  Henry  Cowles  clerk  ? — A.  Never,  sir. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  you  did  not  say  to  Henry  Cowles,  or  to  some  one, 
in  justification  of  this  habit  of  taking  vouchers  for  more  than  was  due, 
that  such  was  always  the  custom,  because  the  government  cut  them  down 
anyhow,  or  you  took  them  for  more  than  was  due  in  order  to  allow  the 
government  to  cut  them  down  ? — A.  I  was  clerk  of  the  fourth  district, 
and  I  went  to  Statesville  in  order  to  learn  them.  Mr.  Cowles  was  then 
expecting  to  be  clerk  for  Dr.  Mott.  I  went  there  to  learn  Mr.  Cowles, 
and  did  assist  him  in  running  the  office.  In  the  fourth  district  we  took 
voucliers  from  the  deputies  for  different  amounts,  according  to  the  men, 
and,  generally,  hardly  had  any  record  for  it.  The  collector  hired  them 
as  cheap  as  lie  could,  and  allowed  so  much  for  it,  and  I  may  have  remarked 
to  Mr.  (Bowles  it  made  no  difference  with  our  accounts  then  (at  that 
time  we  had  no  regular  form,  just  a  little  printed  form);  that  the  govern- 
ment ouglit  not  to  have  any  record  for  it ;  that  it  would  make  no  differ- 
ence; might  make  them  for  8l,(H)()  a  month  ;  it  did  not  amount  to  any- 
thing, only  to  ])oi]it  out  the  men  we  might  need.  If  anything  wrong,  the 
df]  III  It  iiM'iit  (;onld  correspond  with  him.  1  might  have  made  that  remark 
to  Ml'.  Cowles. 

().  Which  ]Mr.  Cowles  was  that  '. — A.  1  don't  know.  I  expect  it  was 
Ilcni V. 

(}.  \()i\  were  1  here  to  Icain  cxciy  one  of  them  ? — A.  IMr.  Henry  Cowles 
was  soon  after  appointed  eleik  of  the  <;(>nrt. 

(^.  Do  yoM  know  of  any  other  cases  than  those  you  lune  mentioned 
where  voiKiliers  lor  a  greater  anionnt  were  made  out  than  was  really 
due  .' — A.  No,  sir;   I  kn(»w  no  otliei'. 

^).   Do  you  I<no\\  of  any  cdMipIiiint  of  jtarties  alleging  tliey  hiul  not  got 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  25 

•what  had  Ix'cu  made  out  iu  their  \oiichers  ? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  J.  A.  Ramsey, 
of  Salisbury. 

Q.  What  was  his  allegation  ! — A.  He  claimed  that  the  collector  owed 
him  about  $25  a  mouth  while  he  was  iu ;  that  he  ought  to  have  had 
$150. 

Q.  He  alleged  his  vouchers  called  for  that  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  he  did  not  get  it  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  he  sue  the  collector? — A.  No,  sir;  the  collector  sued  him  for 
moneys  short,  and  he  brought  that  up  as  an  answer  to  the  charge  as  a 
set-oft'. 

Q.  Where  was  that  suit  I — A.  That  suit  was  commenced  in  Rowan 
County. 

Q.  Do  you  know  where  it  was  terminated? — A.  I  don't  know,  sir;  it 
has  been  going  on  since  '75  ;  been  in  court  about  twice  a  year  since. 
The  last  time  they  arbitrated,  and  I  don't  know  whether  it  is  settled  or 
not. 

Q.  When  did  Mr.  Ooite  become  clerk  ? — A.  I  don't  know  the  time  ;  I 
think  in  '75,  after  I  left. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  had  any  talk  with  him  about  the A.  (Inter- 
rupting). Mr.  Coite  and  I  had  very  little  to  do  with  each  other. 

Q.  He  was  appointed  some  time  after  you  had  left  the  j)osition  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  he  was  appointed  from  the  department ;  at  least,  the  collector 
got  him  from  here  to  attend  to  the  distillery  business  specially. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  cases  where  storekeepers  divided  their  pay 
with  the  distiller? — A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not. 

Q.  Was  there  any  complaint  made  to  you  while  you  were  in  office  of 
such  things  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Or  made  to  the  collector  ? — A.  No,  sir  ;  not  while  I  was  in  office. 
There  were  very  few  distilleries  running  when  I  left. 

O.  You  were  not  there,  then,  when  the  division  of  stills  took  place — 
making  two  or  three  out  of  one? — A.  No,  sir;  the  collector  was  out  iu 
November,  '74,  I  think;  I  left  in  May,  and  I  have  had  nothing  to  do 
with  the  office  since. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  You  went  out  in  May,  '74  ? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  the  15th  of  May,  '74. 

Q.  That  was  shortly  after  the  law  was  passed  abolishing  the  office  of 
assessor  and  deputy  assessor  ? — A.  '73,  I  think. 

Q  Dr.  Mott  was  collector  at  the  time  you  were  chief  clerk  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  The  impresoion  in  the  office,  you  say,  was,  that  the  abolition  of  the 
assessorship  would  necessitate  an  increased  allowance  for  the  collector, 
in  order  to  carry  on  the  work  of  two  offices,  the  collector's  and  assess- 
or's being  combined  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  the  impression  was  it  would  double 
the  deputy's  duties. 

Q.  And  you  were  desirous  of  securing  a  sufficiently  large  allowance 
to  do  the  work  in  the  collector's  district  efficiently  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  so  you  adopted  the  plan  of  taking  a  number  of  your  specials 
and  making  out  vouchers  for  them  as  deputies? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  object  of  that  being  to  show  to  the  department  at  Washing- 
ton the  necessity  of  a  liberal  appropriation  to  do  the  work  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  that  was  the  object. 

Q.  Did  you  give  men  vouchers  for  work  that  they  had  not  done ;  make 
out  vouchers  for  work  not  done  ? — A.  They  made  vouchers  for  a  greater 
amount  of  work  than  was  done.  They  signed  vouchers  for  more  than 
they  would  be  allowed  under  any  circumstances. 


26  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Wliat  I  ineau  is,  if  a  man  worl^ed  fifteen  days,  did  he  make  ont 
vouchers  for  thirty  days  ? — A.  I  can't  exactly  answer  that.  I  cannot  tell 
the  uaml  )er  of  days  the  deputies  had.  The  district  had  twelve  mountain 
counties,  and  I  cannot  tell  the  time  a  man  worked.  The  vouchers  were 
made  then  quarterly. 

Q.  What  I  want  to  understand  is,  whether  you  and  the  officers  know 
if  they  made  out  vouchers  for  a  greater  amount  of  work  than  a  man  said 
he  had  done? — A.  We  put  in  vouchers — a  larger  amount  of  vouchers 
than  were  necessary — in  order  to  make  up  a  large  estimate  to  get  men 
to  do  the  work. 

Q.  This,  then,  was  an  estimate  on  which  you  were  seeking  to  get  an 
allowance  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  that  was  what  we  termed  it  at  that  time. 

Q.  What  was  the  form  of  that  voucher  f — A.  Dr'  to  so  and  so,  for 
services  rendered  as  deputy  collector,  so  many  mouths,  for  a  certain 
amount,  and  the  division. 

Q.  And  these  particulars  really  indicated  a  greater  amount  of  work 
than  was  done  1 — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  But  it  was  done  in  order  to  furnish  an  estimate  on  which  an  allow- 
ance should  be  made.  Was  it  understood  in  that  way  at  the  ofdce 
here  ? — A.  I  think  so,  sir.  They  said  something  about  it,  and  it  was 
explained  to  them  later  satisfactorily.  In  auditing  the  account  they 
ignored  the  vouchers.  Down  there  at  that  time  certain  men  or  deputies 
had  the  work  to  do  anyway,  and  we  put  on  the  specials  to  assist  them. 
They  ignored  the  vouchers,  but  allowed  the  collector  to  pay  for  those 
regularly  appointed. 

Q.  Then  they  said  this  was  in  the  nature  of  a  requ-est  to  make  an 
allowance  for  special  assistance,  and  the  reply  of  that  office  was  that 
you  could  not  have  that  allowance,  but  would  be  allowed  for  the  regular 
apiiointees  ? — A.  Allowed  only  for  the  regular  deputies. 

Q.  So  it  was  simply  a  claim  upon  the  part  of  the  collector  for  addi- 
tional help,  which  w^as  disallowed  ? — A.  Disallowed. 

Q.  These  things  never  went  into  the  accounts  of  the  collector  or  be- 
came a  subject  of  credit  ? — A.  Only  went  in  as  a  form. 

Q.  As  an  application  for  more  allowance '? — A.  So  understood  at  the 
time.     I  did  it  myself. 

Q.  That  was  your  understanding  about  it ;  and  the  fact  of  it  was  that 
it  was  not  successful,  the  allowance  being  simply  what  was  believed 
would  be  sufficient  for  the  work  that  was  to  be  done  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  When  did  these  S])ecial  agents  comedown  to  investigate  this  mat- 
ter ;  while  you  were  there  ? — A.  I  was  around  the  town  all  the  while 
till  '7(5. 

Q.  I  mean,  Avhile  you  were  there  as  chief  clerk? — A.  Mr.  Crane  was 
there  while  I  was  chief  clerk. 

(^  Did  he  ask  you  about  this  matter? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(,>.  Did  you  tell  him  about  how  it  was? — A.  Yes,  sir;  the  best  I 
conld. 

(}.  Von  Just  told  him  yon  were  making  up  an  estimate  to  get  your  al- 
lowance '. — A.  1  think  yon  may  be  mistaken.  Mr.  Crane's  duties  were 
looking  after  the  distilleries  and  starting  them  up  running  right.  Mr. 
W'JH'cier  was  tlKucgnlar  examiner  of  tiie  books  and  records  of  the  office. 

(}.  Had  you  ever  had  a  talk  with  Mv.  Wheeler  alxmt  it  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  Wiien  he  asked  you  about  it,  did  you  tell  him  how  it  was  done,  and 
what  it  was  Cor,  just  as  you  liaxc  lold  ine  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  as  near  as  I 
can  reirieuilier. 

(}.  Was  it  (ieci(|(Ml  l»y  tlie  onice  here  while  you  were  chief  clerk  ? — 
A.  (^li,  yes,  .sir. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  27 

Q.  They  made  a  new  form  t — A,  And  reorganized  the  district  entirely 
while  I  was  clerk ;  made  a  new  form  for  the  deputy  collector  to  swear 
to  and  make  out  his  account. 

Q.  That  old  form  was  not  a  sworn  form  ? — A.  There  was  a  place  for 
a  man  to  swear,  but  at  the  same  time  we  did  not  swear  each  other,  but 
pnt  their  names  down. 

Q.  It  was  irregular  and  informal '? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Yon  say  that  Dr.  Mott  was  removed  from  the  office  on  account  of 
that  ? — A.  On  account  of  something  ;  I  do  not  know. 

Q.  How  soon  after  that  was  he  removed  from  office  ? — A.  I  think  in 
November,  '74. 

Q.  The  cause  of  that  removal  you  do  not  know  ? — A.  I  do  not  know. 

Q.  How  long  was  it  after  this  estimate  f — A.  About  a  year,  or  maybe 
more. 

Q.  How  long  after  the  special  agents  went  down  there  ? — A.  They 
were  there  oif  and  on  all  the  time. 

Q.  You  say  yourself  that  you  had  no  knowledge  of  vouchers  being 
given  for  more  than  men  got,  except  this  case  f — A.  Except  the  case 
mentioned. 

Q.  You  know  this  man  Eamsey,  do  you  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  was  he  ? — A.  A  deputy  collector. 

Q.  After  he  went  out.  Dr.  Mott  sued  him  for  money  he  claimed  he 
was  in  default  of? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  for  money  collected  and  never  paid  in. 

Q.  And  in  making  up  his  answer  in  defense  he  and  his  lawyers  pleaded 
as  an  offset  that  Dr.  Mott  owed  him  $25  a  month  ? — A.  I  think  more 
than  he  had  been  paid. 

Q.  Of  the  truth  of  that  you  don't  know  anything  ? — A.  As  to  the 
truth  I  was  a  very  important  witness  in  that  case. 

Q.  What  was  the  fact  ? — A.  The  fact  was  that  he  had  been  paid  up 
the  money  that  was  due.  We  had  a  letter  allowing  us  to  hire  so  many 
deputies  at  certain  price,  and  the  collector  could  not  give  any  more 
unless  out  of  his  own  salary. 

Q.  He  paid  all  he  had  been  allowed  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  So  his  claim  was  a  false  claim  f — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  so  it  was  decided  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  mean  in  the  suit  ? — A.  I  think  so ;  I  think  the  Auditor  did  decide 
against  Ramsey. 

By  Senator  Mitchell  : 

Q.  You  say  these  vouchers  were  made  out ;  were  they  vouchers  that 
were  presented  in  the  regular  account  of  the  'collector,  or  were  they 
simply  presented  in  his  application  for  an  allowance  ! — A.  Presented 
regularly  in  his  account. 

Q.  In  the  settlement  of  his  quarterly  account? — A.  Ko,  sir;  in  the 
settlement  of  his  quarterly  disbursing  account  they  were  presented,  but 
I  can  hardly  explain  that  unless  I  had  a  form  here  to  show  that. 

Q.  Is  the  collector  allowed  to  present  a  voucher  of  that  kind  without 
a  previous  allowance  by  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Keveuue  ? — A, 
He  was  at  that  time,  sir  ;  not  now;  it  is  changed.  There  had  been  no 
allowance  after  the  reorganization  at  that  time. 

Q.  I  understand  you  to  say  that  these  vouchers,  as  you  call  them, 
were  ouly  presented  for  services  rendered  by  some  persons  designated, 
by  the  collector  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  To  act  under  the  revenue  law  ? — A.  He  put  a  great  many  of  these 
in  in  order  to  get  a  good  many  deputies ;  put  in  as  many  as  he  could. 

Q.  What  was  the  object  of  employing  so  many? — A.  They  had  a  bad 


28  COLLECTIOX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

district  up  there,  aud  the  work  liad  nearly  doubled  itself,  and  then  the 
oflHcers  had  been  diminished  half.  They  needed  more  men.  The  col- 
lector had  the  duties  of  both  the  offlces. 

Q.  What  was  the  understanding  with  these  deputies  when  they  were 
selected  or  designated  ? — A.  The  understanding  was  that  if  we  could 
get  any  pay  or  allowance  for  them  they  should  be  employed  and  paid 
regularly. 

Q.  Then  that  was  the  understanding  or  the  aiTangement ;  there  was 
no  obligation  really  at  that  time  on  the  part  of  the  collector  to  pay  any 
certain  sum  to  them  ? — A.  Only  to  the  regular  ones. 

Q.  Their  appointment  was  authorized  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  But  as  to  those  you  now  speak  of  there  was  no  contract  made  and 
no  assumption  of  the  right  to  make  a  contract  by  the  collector  for  any 
certain  sum,  but  the  vouchers  were  made  out  for  certain  sums,  with  the 
understanding  that  they  were  to  be  presented,  and,  if  allowed,  to  be 
liaid  ? — A.   Yes,  sir;  that  is  what  I  think  about  it. 

Q.  So  that  really,  although  they  were  presented  as  vouchers  in  the 
account  of  the  collector,  it  was  well  understood  between  the  collector 
and  these  persons  that  the  allowance  would  depend  upon  the  action 
here  at  Washington  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  entirely. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  Who  was  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue  at  that  time? — 
A.  Douglass. 

Q.  Before  Mr.  Eaum's  time? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  that  form  was  the  one  used  by  Douglass? — A.  Yes,  sir;  the 
same  form  was  used  by  Delano;  used  in  his  time  while  I  was  clerk  in  the 
fourth  district.  I  think  the  same  form  had  been  used  always  up  to  that 
time. 

Q.  In  a  statement  that  you  made  to  Senator  Vance  there  was  some- 
thing that  you  said  to  Mr.  Cowles.  Mr.  Cowles  was  expecting  to  be 
chief  clerk  after  you  went  out? — A.  Expecting  to  be  chief  clerk  at  the 
time  Di'.  Mott  was  appointed  collector. 

(^.  That  is,  reappointed? — A.  No,  sir;  when  first  appointed  I  went  to 
Statesville  in  order  to  straighten  him  out  and  start  him. 

Q.  That  was  at  a  still  earlier  period? — A.  That  was  in  '72. 

(^.  You  had  been  in  the  revenue  service  in  the  fourth  district? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  Dr. Mott  was  expecting  to  be  api^oiuted,  and  make  Mr.  Cowles 
his  clerk? — A.  Dr.  Mott  was  appointed.  I  Avent  and  helped  to  fix  up 
his  bonds,  also  the  collect<«''s  of  the  fourth,  when  I  went  to  start  him  ont 
right.  Mr.  Cowles  got  a])])ointod  soon  after  I  got  there  as  clerk  of  the 
I'nitcd  States  court,  and  did  not  want  the  oflice. 

(i.  \ )ining  that  time,  although  you  do  not  recollect, you  may  have  told 
him  wliat  was  the  custom  in  the  fourth  district  in  regard  to  these 
vouchers? — A.  1  may  have  done  so. 

(}.  'I'liat  wouhl  have  been  the  custom  that  existed  in  the  fourth  dis- 
trict j)ri()r  to  the  year  '72? — A.  Prior  to  that  time,  yes,  sir. 

(^>.  That  is,  yon  made  out  these  vouchers  for  a  larger  sum  than  the 
actual  amount,  and,  if  notalloAved,  did  that  create  an  obligation  on  the 
]»ait  of  the  (;oll<'ctf)r ? — A.  Xo,  sir.  The  dei)uty  hjid  to  take  whatever 
he  got.  II<!  advancecl  it  from  time  to  time,  and  settled  every  three 
nioiit  hs. 

(}.  And  if  this  c\ti;i  allow ancc  was  not  allowed  here  in  the  fourth 
disti-ict  the  enij»l(»yc  got  no  more  and  had  no  claim  against  the  (tollector? 
— A.   I  think  at  that  film-  the  letter  iVom  the  department  did  not  state 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  29' 

what  you  should  pay  the  deputy,  but  allowed  him  so  much  to  hire  these 
deputies  and  ruu  the  office. 

Q.  Aud  this  was  a  method  of  iucrea.sing  the  allowance,  if  possible  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  The  vouchers  you  speak  of  as  being  a  sort  of  estimate  were  of  the 
form  used  by  Messrs.  Douglass  and  Delano  before  Mr.  Raum  came  into 
the  ofHce,  you  say  ? — A.  Mr.  Douglass  changed  the  form. 

Q.  Can  you  tell  how  it  differed  from  the  present  form  used  ! 

(Form  No.  54  handed  to  witness.) 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  can  explain  it  if  this  is  the  form  used  by  the  Internal 
Revenue. 

Q.  Please  state  the  substance  of  the  form  of  the  voucher. — A.  It 
was  something  in  the  order  of  an  account.  A  B,  collector,  Dr.  to  C, 
deputy  collector,  for  services  rendered  as  deputy  collector  for  three 
mouths  ending  so  and  so,  say  June  30,  for  services  rendered  in  the  county ; 
had  a  blank  space  to  state  the  county,  with  the  amount  run  out  and 
receipted. 

Q.  ^Vas  there  an  affidavit  to  the  correctness  of  that  account  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir ;  I  think  it  w^as  sworn  and  subscribed  to,  like  here  (indicating  as 
in  Form  No.  54),  and  on  the  back  of  it  were  the  official  figures. 

Q.  These  were  put  in  for  more  than  was  due  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  For  the  purpose  of  increasing  the  amount  to  be  expended  on  spe- 
cial deputies  ? — A.  For  the  amount  to  be  expended  on  running  the  office. 

Q.  Were  not  some  of  these  accounts  made  out  for  gangers  also  in 
the  same  way  f — A.  The  gangers'  accounts  ?  I  don't  know  about  other 
instances.  Mr.  Crane  came  down  there  and  turned  most  of  them  out, 
and  me  besides. 

Q.  He  was  the  Mr.  Crane  who  in  his  report  says  (quoting),  "  In  this 
connection  I  will  state  that  I  ascertained  that  J.  A.  Clark,  deputy  col- 
lector and  chief  clerk  for  Collector  Mott,  made  up  all  the  false  gangers* 
bills  on  which  the  indictments  were  found  against  the  five  gangers  men- 
tioned in  this  report"  ? — A.  Yes  sir  5  I  made  up  some  of  them,  not  all. 

Q.  Explain  how  that  was  done  ? — A.  The  law  requires  the  ganger  to 
visit  the  distillery  every  third  day  and  draw  the  whisky  from  the  cis- 
tern and  place  it  in  the  warehouse,  and  withdraw  the  whisky  from  the 
warehouse  that  is  tax-paid.  A  good  many  gangers  in  the  different  parts 
of  the  district  stayed  away  a  month.  At  the  end  of  the  month  they 
came  home  to  make  up  their  accounts.  They  had  Form  No.  59,  show- 
ing the  work  done  each  day,  and  would  bring  those  into  the  office.  A 
great  many  did  not  know  how  to  make  up  an  account.  They  had  the 
form  furnished  to  make  it  up  on.  I  had  all  the  work  of  the  office  to  do 
at  that  time,  and  they  would  sit  around  for  two  or  three  days  asking  me 
questions,  and  I  would  sit  down  and  say,  "  Give  me  your  reports."  I 
would  take  their  "59"  and  make  out  their  accounts;  as  how  far  was 
one  distillery  from  another  one,  the  days  traveling,  and  the  distance 
traveled ;  and  then  he  would  sit  down  there  and  sign  them,  and  some- 
times I  would  sign  my  name,  as  deputy  collector,  to  the  correctness  of 
the  account.  Mr.  Crane  could  not  say  that  the  men  could  work  for  noth- 
ing, and  he  indicted  me,  thinking  I  was  a  party  to  the  fraud. 

Q.  I  am  not  asking  you  any  questions  with  a  view  of  having  you 
criminate  yourself  in  the  matter;  I  only  want  to  know  what  the  habit 
was  in  the  office ;  how  those  things  were  done.  The  purpose  of  this  in- 
vestigation is  to  find  out  if  these  vouchers  were  frequently  made  and. 


30  COLLECTION    OF    INTEENAL    REVENUE    IN 

more  money  obtained  on  them  than  was  due. — A.  I  wanted  to  exphdn 
what  that  is  in  Crane's  letter. 

Q.  You  made  these  accounts  up  for  those  gangers  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ; 
made  up  their  vouchers. 

Q.  In  the  case  of  the  deputy  collectors,  you  say  that  was  done  for  the 
luu'pose  of  increasiug  the  estimate,  as  you  have  explained? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  was  known  to  Dr.  Mott ! — A.  Yes,  sir ;  known  to  everybody 
almost ;  we  made  no  secret  of  it  at  all,  and  I  think  Mr.  Wheeler  rather 
advised  to  make  as  big  a  showing  as  we  could,  knowing  we  had  a  large 
district  to  look  after. 

By  Senator  Mitchell  : 

Q.  Mr.  Wheeler  was  the  special  agent  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  special  agent. 
Mr.  Perry  was  sui)ervi8or. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Who  was  the  district  attorney  then  ? — A.  Mr.  Lusk. 

Q.  I  see  that  Mr.  Crane  says  that  he  recommended  that  you  should 
be  indicted,  but  that  the  district  attorney  declined ;  do  you  know  why 
he  declined  to  do  as  he  was  recommended  by  the  agent? — A.  I  do  not, 
sir;  unless  he  was  familiar  with  the  facts. 

r  Q.  Did  you  talk  with  him  about  it  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  Mr.  Crane  was 
working  for  reputation,  and  Mr.  Lusk  had  it  already.  Crane  was  try- 
ing hard  to  make  himself  big. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  else  that  would  aid  the  committee  in  com- 
ing to  a  proper  conclusion  in  this  matter  ? — A.  I  do  not  know. 

Q.  When  did  you  leave  the  department  ?— A.  The  loth  of  May,  1874. 

Q.  You  have  had  no  connection  with  the  department  since  ? — A.  j!:^o, 
sir  ;  none  at  all,  except  in  the  suit  of  Kamsey. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 
Q.  Where  do  you  now  live? — A.  Atlanta,  Ga. 

Thomas  Templeton  sworn  and  examined. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  Where  do  you  live  ? — Answer.  I  live  in  Iredell  County,  N.  C. 

Q.  What  part  of  Iredell  County? — A.  The  northern  part,  near  the 
AVilkes  line. 

Q.  Have  you  had  any  connection  with  the  revenue  department  in 
that  district  ? — A.  I  have  been  connected  with  it  as  storekeeper,  and 
also  stor<;keeper  and  ganger  when  the  two  ofiices  were  consolidated. 

(^.  Whereabouts  were  you  located;  to  what  distilleries  were  you 
mostly  assigned  ? — A.  I'irst,  Osborne  &  Col  vert's,  and  then  I  served  at 
S.  A.  Woo<lriiirs,  iiciir  Joiiesville,  Yadkin  County,  and  then  I  served 
some  at  T.  ¥.  Cooj>er's,  and  some  time  iit  W.  M.  Cooper's. 

Q.  Is  he  a  brother  of  T.  N.  Cooper's? — A.  They  are  brothers.  I  was 
a  shoit  time  at. I.  K.  Combs',  in  Wilkes  County. 

Q.  J  low  long  were  you  with  the  two  Coopers? — A.  I  don't  recollect. 
I  expect  I  was  off  and  on  with  both  of  them  nearly  three  years.  I  was 
sometimes  witli  on<',  of  them  and  sometimes  with  the  other,  and  some- 
limes  witli  ( 'oI\crt. 

().  How  long  altog<'tiier  weie  you  in  tlie  servii-e  in  that  capacity? — 
A.  I  <<)nhl  not  tell  yon  exactly.  I  first  went  in  in  1873,  but  have  not 
had  anylliing  lil<e  steady  employment. 

(}.  Still  iiad  a  commission  since  1873? — A.  Yes,  sir;  it  was  in  the  lat- 
ter- pait  of  I87;{. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  31- 

Q.  Do  you  still  serve  as  storekeeper  and  ganger  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Are  you  assigned  auy where  uow  ? — A.  Not  in  auy  assignment  at 
this  time. 

Q.  From  1873  to  the  present  time  is  about  nine  years  that  you  have 
been  assigned  to  these  five  distilleries  you  have  mentioned? — A,  Yes, 
sir ;  those  were  the  only  places ;  I  served  Woodruff  and  Combs  but  a 
short  time. 

Q.  During  the  time  you  were  serving  will  you  tell  us  if  jon  were 
ever  assessed  for  political  purposes'? — A.  No,  sir.  You  mean  by  the 
collector  or  any  of  the  ofdcers  ! 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Were  you  assessed  by  anybody  else  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  not  in  any  way 
that  was  anythiug  like  compelling. 

Q.  Tell  us  how  it  was  done. — A.  There  was,  I  suppose,  a  kind  of 
campaign  fund  necessary  to  run  the  campaign,  and  of  course  they 
expected  that  the  people  of  the  party  would  put  in  something  of  their 
means,  and  I  i)ut  in  a  little,  too. 

Q.  They  called  on  you  to  put  in  something  ? — A.  I  think  that  I  un- 
derstood through  the  Coopers  that  there  was  a  certain  amount — or  at 
least  that  they  wanted  the  people  to  contribute  to  the  support  of  the 
party,  all  that  were  willing. 

Q.  The  matter  came  to  you  through  the  Coopers  ? — A.  I  think  they 
were  the  ones  who  informed  me  of  the  arrangement. 

Q.  To  whom  did  you  pay  yours  ? — A.  What  I  coutributed  I  left  in  the 
revenue  office  to  go  into  the  hands  of  the  chairman  of  the  executive 
committee. 

Q.  You  left  it  in  the  office — the  pay  due  you?  How  much? — A. 
Sometimes  I  just  left  the  money,  and  sometimes  I  just  signed  a  check. 

Q.  For  how  much  ? — A.  I  can't  tell  exactly  how  much  I  contributed 
in  the  length  of  time  I  was  in,  but  I  throwed  in  right  smart. 

Q.  How  much  at  a  time ;  can  you  recollect  that  ? — A.  I  think  the  last 
Presidential  campaign  I  contributed  about  $108.     I  think  so. 

Q.  Was  tbat  a  month's  salary? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  just  gave  it.  There 
was  no  compulsion  any  way. 

Q.  Did  you  loan  Dr.  Mott  some  money  once  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  How  much  ? — A.  I  think  it  was  $196 ;  the  checks  I  made  one  for 
$101  and  the  other  for  $92. 

Q.  Did  you  get  it  back  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  When  ? — A.  I  think  it  has  been  about  twelve  months  since  he  and 
1  settled. 

Q.  I  was  requested  to  ask  if  he  did  not  refuse  to  settle  once,  saying- 
he  had  been  doing  so  much  for  you  ? — A.  No,  sir.  I  never  asked  him 
for  it  until  the  time  of  settlement.  He  proposed  the  settlement.  AYe 
went  into  it,  and  he  paid  me  all,  and  I  gave  him  a  receipt,  I  think,  on 
his  letter  that  he  wrote  to  me  for  the  loan  of  the  checks. 

Q.  Did  you  see  Mr.  Barnes,  the  sergeant-at-arms,  when  down  in  North 
Carolina? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  not  tell  him  that  Dr.  Mott  had  never  repaid  you  the 
$200  ?— A.  No,  sir.     I  never  saw  Mr.  Barnes  until  the  other  day. 

Q.  Did  you  not  tell  him  that  j^ou  asked  Mott  for  it,  and  he  cursed  you 
out,  sajing  he  had  given  you  work  for  a  long  time  and  did  not  want 
to  hear  anything  more  about  that  debt  ? — A.  No,  sir;  never  thought  of 
such  a  thing. 

Q.  Did  you  tell  anybody  so  ? — A.  I  never  told  any  one  so. 

Q.  Did  you  not  tell  Colonel  Armfield  so? — A.  No,  sir;  have  not  spoken 
to  Colonel  Armfield — I  don't  know  as  I  have— since  he  was  elected  to 


32  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Congress.     Dr.  Mott  never  cursed  me;   if  he  did,  it  was  behind  my 
back. 

Q.  And  he  paid  you  back  all  the  borrowed  money  ? — A.  Oh,  yes ;  he 
has  got  the  receipt  on  the  letter  he  sent.  I  receipted  in  full  when  we 
settled. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  how  many  distilleries  Mr.  Cooper 
had  ? — A.  T.  X.  Cooper  had  but  one  when  I  staid  there,  but  put  up 
another  afterwards,  I  nnderstood,  and  W.  M.  Cooper  had  one  when  I 
first  went  there,  and  afterwards  he  put  up  another,  and  I  understand  he 
has  got  another  one  most  ready  to  run. 

Q.  Who  owns  T.  JST.  Cooper's  distilleries? — A.  I  don't  know,  sir  ;  I  un- 
derstood he  had  sold  them,  but  I  don't  know  that  to  be  so  ;  it  is  hear- 
say. 

Q.  Sold  them  to  whom  did  you  hear  ? — A.  I  understood  he  had  sold 
one  to  his  brother  Will.  That  is  the  one  I  understand  he  is  just  fixing 
to  put  up. 

Q.  It  is  already  up  if  he  has  sold  it  ? — A.  He  moved  it  up  home,  up 
to  the  new  house  in  Wilkes.  I  saw  the  still  sitting  there  in  the  lot, 
and  he  told  me  himself  he  had  bought  it  from  Tom. 

Q.  What  was  the  capacity  of  those  stills  of  T.  K.  Cooper's  and  W. 
M.  Cooper's  ? — A.  I  don't  know  what  T.  N.'s  was ;  I  think  it  was  about 
eight  bushels  when  I  staid  there ;  I  am  not  positive.  And  W.  M.'s 
varied.  Sometimes  he  would  raise  it,  and  then  maybe  cut  it  down  a 
little.  Xot  under  four  nor  over  six,  I  think,  at  no  time  while  I  staid 
there.     I  don't  know  exactly  what  they  were. 

Q.  What  is  the  capacity  now  of  T.  N.  Cooi^er's  two  stills  ? — A.  I 
don't  know  ;  he  is  not  running. 

Q.  Just  before  they  were  closed  ? — A.  I  don't  know,  sir ;  I  had  not 
been  there  for  some  time  ;  since  he  put  up  the  new  one. 

Q.  You  don't  know  the  capacity  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  How  far  were  they  apart  ? — A.  I  don't  know  that ;  never  was  at 
his  i)lace  after  he  put  up  the  new  one. 

Q.  Have  you  not  some  idea,  from  the  way  it  has  been  described  to 
you,  how  far  they  are  apart "? — A.  Some  one  told  me  he  had  a  new  one 
on  what  is  called  the  Albea  place.  And  if  it  is  there,  it  is  half  a  mile 
from  the  first  or  old  one. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  the  capacity  of  the  two  combined  was 
greater  than  that  of  the  old  one  ? — A.  I  do  not. 

Q.  Is  the  caj[)acity  of  W.  M.  Cooper's  two  new  ones  greater  than  the 
old  one  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  much  ? — A.  Nearly  double ;  he  has  now  raised  the  old  one 
s(Mue.  I  don't  know  to  what.  1  expect  the  two  i)ut  together  now  are 
floubl*^  wliat  the  old  one  was  when  I  staid  there.     I  think  so,  at  least. 

(^.  That  is  to  say,  the  new  one  is  as  great  as  the  old  one,  and  that  is 
its  (h)ul)le  <-apacity  '. — A.  Yes,  sir;  and  the  old  one  being  raised,  makes 
it  still  more.     1  don't  know  the  exact  ca|)acity  that  they  are. 

().  Do  you  know  anything  about  storekeepers  dividing  their  pay 
uilh  the  distillers '^ — A.   1  do  not. 

(}.   \'ou  know  nothing  of  that  ? — A.  I  know  nothing  of  that. 

(^.  Did  you  cvrr  divide  any  of  yours  with  the  Messrs.  Cooper? — A. 
Never  did,  only  what  I  had  to  pay  for  my  hoard. 

(I.  With  whom<lid  you  board  ^— A.  When  I  staid  at  T.  K's  1  boarded 
with  him.     '^I'lien  I  liojirded  witli  Will  wluMi  1  staid  with  him. 

Q.  How  much  board  did  yon  jKiy  ? — A.  Well,  it  sort  of  varied.  T.  N.. 
never  chargrd  me  hut  ^-t  pei'  month,  and  Will,  I  believe,  at  that  time, 
charge<l  me  as  high  as  ¥l  a  da.N  ;  ^'Si  or  ^'2~t  a  month.     1  could  not  board 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  33 

auywhere  else,  aucl  it  was  hard,  too,  when  he  went  and  charged  me  that 
way.     I  just  settled  it  ofit'  without  saying  mnch  about  it. 

Q.  Wiiat  would  be  a  fair  price  for  country  boarding,  about  the  usual 
price? — A.  It  is  a  good  deal  owing  to  what  kind  of  people  you  are.  If 
making  a  smart  amount  of  money,  they  charge  you  very  high ;  making 
little,  charge  you  a  little. 

Q.  It  don't  depend  upon  what  a  man  eats,  but  how  much  money  he 
makes  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  In  your  country  they  charge  a  rich  man  more  than  a  poor  one  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Does  that  rule  prevail  all  round  ;  would  the  store  keepers  carry  out 
the  same  rule? — A.  I  believe  they  would  charge  a  rich  man  more  than 
a  poor  one. 

Q.  A  dollar  a  day  Avould  be  $30  a  month  ? — A.  Not  quite. 

Q.  You  do  not  count  Sundays  ? — A.  I  went  home  Sundays. 

Q.  About  $26  a  month  ? — A.  Sometimes ;  sometimes  not  so  many 
work  days. 

Q.  That  was  at  the  rate  of  $30  a  month  where  a  boarder  boarded  a 
full  month  ? — A.  I  suppose  it  would  have  been. 

Q.  Was  that  a  fair  and  reasonable  price  for  board  in  that  country? — 
A.  I  thought  it  was  a  little  high. 

Q.  Don't  you  know  it  was  very  high ;  that  you  could  get  board  for  $8 
or  $10  a  month? — A.  I  could  not  there. 

Q.  Xot  at  that  house,  but  anywheres  else  in  the  neighborhood  ? — A. 
I  could  by  taking  such  fare  as  Avas  there,  but  there  was  no  other  place 
to  board  at. 

Q.  Could  you  not  board  by  the  mouth  for  that  in  the  hotels  ? — A. 
Xo  hotel  there. 

Q.  I  mean  in  the  town  of  Statesville  ? — A.  I  don't  think  I  can.  I 
thiuk  they  charge  a  dollar  a  day  or  more  than  that. 

Q.  Just  tell  the  committee,  yes  or  no,  whether  that  was  the  usual 
price  for  board  in  that  country — a  dollar  a  day  ? — A.  I  think  it  is  for 
revenue  oflBcers;  they  are  hard  on  them. 

Q.  What  was  the  usual  price  of  liquor  at  the  distilleries  where  you 
were  ?— A.  I  don't  know.     I  never  inquired  much  about  that. 

Q.  You  did  not  feel  interested  in  that? — A.  Not  at  allj  but  that  the 
goverument  got  the  tax. 

Q.  Do  you  think  the  government  got  it  all  ? — A.  It  did,  so  far  as  I 
know. 

Q.  What  is  your  opinion  the  other  side  of  what  you  know  ? — A.  I 
could  not  tell  you  hardly  what  it  is.  So  many  tales  about  these  things 
that  if  I  was  to  undertake  to  form  an  opinion  I  might  miss  it.  I  don't 
propose  to  state  anything  only  what  I  know.  It  won't  do  to  listen  to 
rumors. 

Q.  Do  you  know  any  cases,  then,  of  other  storekeepers  paying  the  same 
board  as  you  did? — A.  I  don't;  1  never  inquired  into  what  any  of  them 
paid. 

Q.  What  did  you  pay  when  you  were  storekeeper  at  these  other  places  ? 
— A.  I  paid,  I  think,  $7.50  at  Woodruff's.  I  boarded  witli  a  man  named 
Miller ;  Woodruff  boarded  with  Miller  too.  Old  man  Colvert  charged 
me  a  dollar  a  day. 

Q.  AVhere  was  his  distillery  ? — A.  When  he  and  Osborne  run  it,  back 
about  half  a  mile  from  his  house ;  three  miles  north  of  Olin,  where  the  old 
one  ran.  After  they  dissolved  it  was  put  up  nearer  to  his  house;  close 
to  his  house.     I  boarded  with  him  some  then. 

Q.  With  whom  did  you  board  when  you  paid  $7.50? — A.  With  Miller. 
S.  Mis.  no :; 


34  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Miller  was  not  a  distiller  ! — A.  Xo,  sir;  L.  A.  Woodruff  was  tlie 
distiller. 

Q.  You  boarded  with  Miller,  who  was  uot  a  distiller,  and  paid  him  $7.50 
a  month  ! — A.  Yes,  sir ;  that  was  away  back  in  the  year  '74 ;  board  had 
not  run  up  so  high  then.  Then  I  went  to  Mr.  Colvert's  after  that,  and 
he  popped  it  up  "to  a  dollar  a  day. 

Q.  He  was  a  distiller  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  They  can  afford  to  board  as  cheap  as  farmers  1 — A.  I  thought  he 
might,  but  he  would  not,  or  did  not  do  it  at  least.  He  did  not  charge 
me  that  way  at  the  start,  and  there  was  no  grumbling ;  at  the  winding 
up  he  charged  me  that,  and  there  was  no  grumbling  then  neither. 

Q.  Does  thatinclude  your  experience  at  all  these  distilleries  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir ;  I  was  only  at  Combs'  a  few  days. 

Q.  What  did  Combs  charge  you "? — A.  He  did  uot  make  any  particu- 
lar charge  hardly.  I  had  a  beast  there.  I  paid  him  about  $10  for  the 
beast  and  myself. 

Q.  That  was  about  half  a  dollar  a  day  for  you  and  your  horse  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  I  bought  my  fodder  and  gave  him  about  that. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  The  contribution  you  made  to  the  campaign  fund  you  made  voluu. 
tarily  ?— A.  O,  yes. 

Q.'  You  just  desired  to  help  the  cause  along  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Nobody  undertook  to  force  you  to  do  as  you  chose  to  do '? — A.  No, 
sir;  not  at  all. 

Q.  This  board  you  paid  at  different  places  was  "what  the  parties 
charged  you? — A.  I  just  paid  what  they  charged  me. 

Q.  In  the  case  of  Cooper,  it  was  the  only  place  you  could  board  aud 
do  your  work '? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  no  other  place  near  there.  Not  speaking 
anything  against  the  people,  but  there  was  not  a  place  fit  to  board  at; 
it  is  a  very  destitute  neighborhood. 

A.  D.  CoWLES  recalled  and  examined. 
By  Senator  McDiLL : 

Question.  I  will  ask  you  what  you  know,  if  anything,  about  Mr. 
Cooper — I  mean  the  present  collector — being  indicted?  State  what 
investigation  you  made  with  reference  to  that,  and  the  result  of  it. — An- 
swer. In  the  last  contest  for  the  collectorship  I  was  very  active  trying 
to  get  information  as  to  his  "blockading,"  that  is,  the  manufacturing 
and  selling  of  contraband  whisky — "moonsliining."''  I  went  to  Salisbury 
and  tried  to  get  a  transcript  of  tlie  record  of  the  United  States  com- 
missioners, I  unch'rstood  that  Mr.  Coo])or's  wagons  had  been  seized 
near  Salisltuiy,  and  that  a  (|uaiitity  of  brandy  and  wliisky  had  been 
found  in  some  boxes  of  fruit  by  ^Ir.  ,b>lin  Beard,  one  of  Samuel  H. 
Wilt'v's  d('])uties.  I\lr.  Holmes  stated  that  he  was  commissioner  at  the 
time,  and  thought  he  issued  a  warrant  for  Thomas  N.  Cooi)er,  but  he 
liad  lost  the  records,  and  consequently  I  did  not  get  to  see  them.  So  I 
did  not  stop  there,  and  1  sent  to  Mr,  Larkins,  clerk  of  the  court  of  Salis- 
l)urv  before  the  western  district  was  formed,  now  residing  in  the  east- 
ern <listrict,  at  Wilmington,  N.  (J,,  and  he  had  the  records  of  that  court, 
anil  by  tlu!  (;ourt(!sy  existing  between  (tlerUs  of  courts  he  sent  me  a  certi- 
fied transcript  of  the  re(;ord,  and  tlie  indictnu'ut  was  against  T.  H. 
(hooper,  a  cousin  of  Thomas  N.'s,  and  not  against  Mr.  Cooper.  So  it 
apitears  that  lie  iievei-was  indicted  in  court.  'I'he  i)resumi)tion  is,  if  he 
were  brought  into  the  eomiiiissioners'  <'oin(,  that  the  facts  were  not  es- 
tahlished  as  to  his  o\vnerslii|i  of  the  li(iiior. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  35 

Q.  You  may  state  bow  you  came  to  look  this  up  so  closely;  if  you  had 
a  purpose  or  object  in  it. — A.  I  had  a  purpose.  I  wauted  to  defeat 
Cooper's  nomiuatiou  for  the  position. 

Q.  You  were  unfri(mdly ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  fought  liis  nomination. 

Q.  In  the  course  of  your  investigations  you  discovered  these  facts? — 
A.  I  discovered  these  facts.  The  transcript  is  on  file;  probably  the 
chairman  has  it. 

Q.  Will  you  state  whether  or  not  the  issue  in  Xorth  Carolina  at  this 
time  is  prohibition  or  anti-prohibition ;  whether  the  parties  are  divided 
upon  it"? — A.  Yes,  sir;  it  a  question  in  politics. 

Q.  Are  the  parties  divided ;  saj  the  one  is  the  liquor  party  or  the 
anti-liquor  party,  or  is  it  simply  as  to  the  policy  of  prohibition  ?— A.  It 
is  prohibition  or  no  prohibition.  The  legislature  tried  to  foist  upon  the 
people  of  Xorth  Carolina  a  prohibition  law,  which,  I  believe,  prohibited 
the  manufacture  and  the  sale  of  liquor,  the  latter  allowed  only  in  drug 
stores — a  drug  store  to  keep  thirty  gallons  of  liquor — and  it  was  defeated 
by  110,000  majority.  The  Senator  asked  me  the  other  day,  I  believe,  if 
the  IJepublican  party  was  not  known  as  the  Liquor  party,  and  the 
Democratic  party  as  the  Temperance  party.  I  think  he  should  have 
said  the  Temperance  and  the  Anti-Temperance  party. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  I  asked  you  if  it  was  known  as  such.  I  did  not  sa.y  it  was. — A. 
The  question  of  temperance  and  anti-temperance  I  don't  think  enters 
into  either  party.  It  is  simi^ly  a  question  of  prohibition  and  anti-pro- 
hibition, because  the  leaders  on  both  sides  are  equally-  fanatical  about 
intemperance;  but  the  Eepublican party  feels  that  every  man  should  be 
allowed  to  manufacture  freely  what  he  wants,  and  drink  what  he  wants, 
so  long  as  he  is  moderate,  and  they  thought  the  law  was  calculated  to 
take  away  their  liberties,  and  considered  it  so,  and  a  great  portion  of  the 
Democratic  party  voted  with  the  Eepublican  party. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 
Q.  This  116,000  majority  was  composed  of  both  parties  ? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
30,000  Democrats  voted  the  Prohibition  ticket. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  You  say  that  no  indictment  appears  against  Mr.  Cooper  in  the 
records  of  the  Federal  court? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Y"ou  say  he  was  not  arrested  and  brought  before  the  United  States 
commissioners  and  bound  over  for  violation  of  the  revenue  law  ? — A. 
I  have  not  found  it  so.  I  do  not  say  that  is  not  so,  because  I  don't 
know.    Mr.  Holmes  stated  he  issued  a  warrant  for  Thomas  N.  Cooper. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 
Q.  The  present  collector? — A.  Yes,  sir;  but  the  presumption  would 
be  it  was  a  misnomer  in  the  United  States   court,  or  the  case  was 
brought  and  he  was  acquitted, 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Do  you  know  Mr.  Holmes's  handwriting  (handing  a  paper  to  wit- 
ness)?— A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not. 

Q.  Do  you  know  Mr.  Cooper's  handwriting? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  (Handing  paper  to  witness.)  Is  this  his  handwriting? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  That  is  T.K  Cooper?— A.  That  is  "T.  N.";  yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  is  the  bond  which  I  will  put  in  evidence. 


36  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IX 

Bond  marked  Exhibit  3,  as  follows  : 

United  States  of  America, 

District  of  Xorth  Carolina  : 
We,  Tlios.  N.  Cooper  aud  John  H.  Daltou,  ackuo\Yledge  ourselves  indebted  to  the 
United  States  in  tlie  sum  of  five  hundred  dollars,  good  and  hnvful  money,  to  be  levied 
of  our  ooods  aud  chattels,  lauds  and  tenemeuts.  To  be  void  on  condition  that  T.  N. 
Cooper  make  his  personal  appearance  before  M.  L.  Holmes,  commissioner  of  the 
United  States,  at  his  office  in  Salisbury,  N.  C,  on  the  27  day  of  April  next,  then  aud 
there  to  do  and  perform,  stand  to  and  abide  by,  such  orders  as  said  commissiouer 
shall  make,  aud  not  depart  the  court  until  legally  discharged. 
Witness  our  hands  and  seals  the  23d  day  of  March,  1869. 

T.  N,  COOPER.     [SEAL.] 
J.  A.  DALTON.     [seal.] 
Attest:  M.  R.  Ciiaffix. 

Q.  Do  you  know  Mr.  Dalton's  liand writing? — A.  No,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  I  propose  to  also  put  in  the  warrant  and  affidavit,  to 
clear  that  point,  that  Mr.  Cooper  was  arrested  for  illicit  distilling.  The 
man  who  was  indicted  in  the  Federal  court  was  Thomas  H.  There  is 
no  record  of  Thomas  oSl".  Cooper  being  indicted  there;  but  this  is  before 
the  commissioner. 

Affidavit,  marked  Exhibit  4,  as  follows : 

U.    S.    COMMISSIOXER'S   office   for    the   DIST.    of    north    CAROLINA  AT    SALISBURY. 

Be  it  remembered  that  this  day  came  before  me,  Moses  L.  Holmes,  United  States 
commissiouer  for  the  district  of  North  Carolina,  residing  in  the  town  of  Salisbury,  John 
Beard,  who,  having  been  duly  sworn,  deposes  and  says  that  he  is  informed  and  believes 
that  Tho.  N.  Cooper  did.  on  or  about  the  17th  day  of  February,  one  thousand  eight 
hundred  aud  sixty-nine,  aud  at  divers  other  times  before  and. since  the  17th  day  of 
Februarv,  one  thousand  eight  hundred  and  sixty-nine,  in  said  district,  distill,  sell,  or 
remove  spirituous  liquors  without  license,  and  did  fail  to  make  proper  report  to  the 
revenue  officers  of  the  United  States,  with  intent  to  defraud  the  United  States  and  de- 
feat the  revenue  laws  of  the  United  States. 

JNO.  BEARD. 

Sworn  aud  subscribed  before  me  this  2nd  day  of  March,  one  thousand  eight  hun- 
dred aud  sixty-nine. 

M.  L.  HOLMES, 
Commissioner  of  the  U.  S.  for  XortJt  Carolina. 

Warrant,  marked  Exhibit  5,  as  follows : 

United  States  of  America, 

District  of  North  Carolina: 
The  President  of  the  United  States  of  America  to  the  marshal  of  the  district  of  North 

Carolina,  greeting : 

Whereas  information  hath  this  day  been  made  to  me,  Moses  L.  Hohnes,  conmiis- 
si()U(!r  of  the  Unite<l  States  in  and  for  said  district,  on  the  oath  of  John  Beard,  that  he 
is  ini'ormt.'d  aud  believes  that  Tlio.  N.  Cooper,  late  of  said  district,  on,  l)efore,  and 
since  the  17th  day  of  February,  A.  D.  IStil),  did,  within  said  district,  distill,  remove, 
or  sell  spiritnous  licjuors  contrary  to  the  laws  of  the  United  States: 

\oH  ((re  therefore  hereby  connnanded,  in  the  nanu;  of  the  United  States  of  America,  to 
arrest  the  body  of  the  said  Tho.  N.  Cooper,  if  to  be  found  in  said  district,  and  him 
liave  licfure  me,  oi'  some  other  commissioner  of  the  United  States  in  and  for  said  dis- 
trict, to  answer  the  aforesaid  charge  and  be  further  dealt  with  according  to  law. 
Hen-ill  fail  not. 

In  witin'ss  whereof,  I,  Moses  L.  Holmes,  connnissioner  of  tho  United  States  for  said 
distiict  of  Norlli  Carolina,  do  hereunto  set  my  baud  aud  seal  this  the  2nd  day  of 
Mariii    \.  I>.  l^^lilt,  aud  iu  tlie  'X'>d  year  of  the  ludependence  of  the  United  States  of 


America. 

KMdiuseiiM'iits  oil  tlic  back  : 

Executed  ;in.l  Im.ihI  liinl  -.'ltd  .Maivli,  ISCH. 


MOSES  L.  HOLMES,     [seal.] 
United  States  Commissioner. 


D.  R.  GOODLOE, 

(/.  »S'.  Marshal, 
By  M.  R.  CHAFFIN, 

Ihpniii  V.  S.  Marshal. 
Contiiiui'd  to  May  I.'itli,  Hi;'.*.     Coiil  iiiucd  Id  .'>th  .June,  '(i'.l. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  37 

W.  C,  Morrison  recalled  and  examined. 
By  Senator  McDill  : 

Qnestion.  In  yonr  evidence  ^iven  the  other  day,  Senator  ^'ance  asked 
yon  this  qnestion  (qnoting) :  "Did  you  hear  anythinjj;-  of  it  afterwards!" 
referring-  to  the  money  j'on  had  contributed.  Your  answer  was, "  Xo,  sir ; 
nothing  more  than  I  got  a  letter  from  Washington  thanking  me  for  the 
sL*.")  1  had  sent  them."  The  Senator  said,  "You  got  a  letter  from  Wash- 
ington'"  You  answered,  "Yes,  sir."  "Q.  By  whom  was  tliat  letter 
signed  ?"  Y'ou  answered,  "  By  Commissioner  Raum,  I  think."  I  want  to 
ask  you  if  you  think  you  are  correct  about  that  letter  being  signed  by 
Commissioner  Kaum  ? — Answer.  I  did  not  say  it  was  signed. 

Q.  You  say  you  thought  it  was  signed  by  Eaum  ? — A.  I  am  not  j)osi- 
tive  whose  name  was  to  the  letter. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q  In  your  aflidavit  you  said  the  letter  was  from  ]Mr.  Jewell. — A.  I  do 
not  remember  whose  name  was  to  the  letter. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  You  only  remember  that  a  letter  was  received  from  Washington 
acknowledging  receipt  of  825,  but  don't  remember  the  name  signed  to 
it,  and  do  not  wish  to  say  it  was  from  Commissioner  Eaum  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Adjourned  until  Thursday,  June  15,  10  a.  m. 


Washington,  D.  C,  June  15,  1882. 
The  committee  met  at  10  a.  m. 
John  Pool,  esq.,  appeared  as  counsel  for  Dr.  Mott. 

A.  B.  Gillespie  sworn  and  examined. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

(Question.  Where  do  you  reside  ? — Answer.  Charlotte,  X.  C. 

Q.  What  is  yOur  age  f— A.  Thirty. 

Q.  What  position  do  you  occupy  in  the  revenue  service? — A.  Ganger. 

Q.  Y'ou  have  been  a  deputy  collector  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  When  were  you  first  appointed  deputy  collector? — A.  The  first  of 
January,  1877. 

Q.  That  was  the  first  time  you  went  into  the  service  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  Who  appointed  you  ? — A.  Collector  Mott. 

Q.  Y'our  position  is  now  that  of  a  ganger? — A.  Ganger. 

Q.  What  is  your  salary? — A.  Five  dollars  a  day  wheu  employed. 

Q.  And  nothing  if  not  emi^loyed,  I  suppose? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  are  your  duties  as  a  ganger? — A.  To  gauge  brandy  and 
whisky,  and  sometimes  assigned  to  special  duty  by  the  collector  to  do 
various  things — to  instruct  other  gangers,  and  whatever  other  work  he 
sees  fit. 

Q.  As  ganger,  have  you  any  certain  counties  or  jurisdiction  assigned 
to  you  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  is  that  jurisdiction? — A.  Eight  counties,  now. 

Q.  Xame  them  ? — A.  A lexander,  North  Iredell,  Y  adkin,  Davie,  Eowan, 
Cabarrus,  Union,  and  Mecklenburg.  I  am  frequently  sent  out  all  over 
the  district,  but  that  is  my  regular  post. 

Q.  You  do  not  combine  the  office  of  storekeeper  and  ganger  ? — A.  Xo, 
sir;  ganger. 


38  COLLECTION    OF    IXTERXAL    REVEXUE    IX 

Q.  Those  couutie.5  compose  your  district  now  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  counties  composed  it  in  1880 — two  years  ago  tliis  summer';? — 
A.  About  that  time  I  was  appointed  ganger.  I  was  appointed  in  August, 
1880,  to  the  same  district. 

Q.  You  have  mentioned? — A.  Yes,  sir;  but  with  the  understandiug 
that  I  am  not  confined  exclusively  to  those  eight  counties. 

Q.  Was  Mr.  William  Morrison  a  storekeeper  and  ganger  in  that  year 
— 1880  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  as  I  remember. 

Q.  From  whom  do  the  storekeepers  and  gangers  get  their  pay '? — A. 
The  collector. 

Q.  How  are  they  paid? — A.  By  the  month. 

Q.  Are  they  paid  by  a  cbeck? — A.  A  check;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  On  what  bank? — A.  I  don't  know.     I  think  it  is  a  Ealeigh  bank. 

Q.  You  don't  know  which  one  in  Ealeigh  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  They  are  paid  monthly  by  a  check  on  some  bank  in  Raleigh  ? — A. 
Paid  monthly  by  a  check.  I  don't  know  any  other  way.  I  am  not  par- 
ticularly acquainted  with  the  manner  of  their  being  paid.  I  just  see  the 
checks  that  go  to  them ;  all  I  know  about  it. 

Q.  Did  you  take  a  check  to  Mr.  Morrison  during  that  year  and  ask 
him  to  sign  for  the  campaign  fund? — A.  I  don't  care  to  answer  that. 

Q.  Why  not  ? — A.  I  understand  there  is  a  law  forbidding  such  things, 
and  don't  know  how  the  law  is,  whether  I  have  violated  it  or  not. 

Q.  Then  you  decline  to  answer  this  question  for  the  reason  that  it 
would  criminate  you? — A.  I  don't  know  whether  it  would  or  not. 

Q.  It  might  do  it? — A.  It  might  do  it. 

Q.  You  decline,  then,  to  answer  whether  you  helped  to  assess  or  levy 
any  political  assessments  on  the  officers  or  not  ?— A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  decline 
to  answer. 

The  Chairman.  What  does  the  committee  say  about  that?  Is  that  a 
case  where  the  witness  may,  at  his  discretion,  decline  f 

Q.  (To  witness.)  Did  you  ever  pay  any  money  yourself  for  campaign 
purposes? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  much  ? — A.  Very  frequently.  I  don't  know  how  much ; 
don't  remember  now ;  just  what  I  saw  fit. 

Q.  Can  you  not  give  us  an  idea  of  how  much  ? — A. '  Sometimes  810, 
sometimes  more — considerably  more. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  at  one  time  pay  as  much  as  a  month's  salarj'  ? — A. 
No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  y(ju  know  of  anybody  else  that  paid  political  assessments, 
contributions,  or  whatever  they  are  called? — A.  I  don't  care  to  answer 
that  either. 

Q.  That  don't  criminate  yon.  You  are  asked  whether  you  know  of 
anybody  else  that  has  paid  these  political  assessments. — A.  Nothing  of 
my  own  knowledge.  I  will  not  answer  it  iu  that  way  either.  I  have 
known  men  to  ])ay,  but  can't  say  anything  definite  about  it. 

().  Don't  y(ni  know  that  regular  assessments  were  levied  upon  all 
ollicH'rs  on  duty  in  that  department  for  political  [uirposes? — A.  I  know 
they  were  rciiuested  very  frequently  to  contribute;  don't  know  they 
were  levie«l  regularly. 

(^.  Don't  yon  know  that  tlie  same  request  was  made  to  each  one  f — 
A.  No,  sir;  no  means  of  knowing. 

(}.  That  was  the  general  rnU-  in  that  oflice? — A.  T  don't  know  that. 
(,>.   And  iindcislanding  ? — A.  1  don't  know;  they  came  through  the 
oilier. 

(^.  When  yon  wei'c  re(|iu!sted  to  i)ay,  don't  yon  know  the  statement 
was  made  1(1  \(>H  that  all  had  been  re(|ne.sted  in  like  manner? — A.  No, 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  39 

Q.  You  never  heard  any  ouc  acknowledge  that  this  Avas  so  ? — A.  In 
saying  that  ?    jSTo. 

Q.  What  was  the  understanding  about  these  assessments  ? — A.  No 
particular  understanding  about  it.  If  they  were  asked,  the  officers  cou- 
tributed. 

Q.  Was  there  an  understanding  that  only  a  few  were  asked  and 
others  not  asked  ? — A.  No  understanding  about  it. 

(}.  Were  you  furnished  with  blank  checks  for  this  purpose  at  any 
time  ? — A.  By  whom  ? 

Q.  I  did  not  say. — A.  I  don't  care  to  answer  that. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  instances  where  storekeepers  divided  their 
pay  with  distillers  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  heard  of  any  complaint  of  that  being  done  in  your  dis- 
trict ? — A.  Heard  it  since  I  came  to  Washington. 

Q.  You  never  heard  it  before  ? — A.  Heard  it  as  a  kind  of  rumor  down 
there.     It  is  larger  here  than  there — the  rumor,  I  mean. 

Q.  But  you  had  heard  of  it  down  there  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  had  heard 
of  it. 

Q.  Whom  did  j'ou  ever  hear  speak  of  this  in  that  district  ? — A.  I  can't 
call  to  mind  any  one.    I  suppose  I  heard  several,  but  I  don't  remember. 

Q.  Can  you  not  give  anj^  name  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  When  a  storekeeper  was  selected  for  a  distillery  that  was  about 
going  into  operation,  were  the  wishes  of  the  distiller  consulted  ? — A. 
I  can't  tell ;  I  have  no  means  of  knowing  that. 

Q.  After  having  been  in  the  service  as  deputy  collector  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
The  assignments  are  made  in  the  office.  I  am  very  seldom  about  the 
office.     My  business  is  away  from  it. 

Q.  Don't  you  know  whether  the  distillers  had  any  say-so  about  the 
appointment  of  storekeepers  or  not? — A.  I  don't  know  that. 

Q.  What  have  you  heard  on  that  subject? — A.  I  don't  know  particu- 
larly that  I  have  heard  anything — probalily  rumor,  is  all  I  know  about  it. 

Q.  What  was  the  eifect  of  the  rumor,  that  they  had  some  voice  in  the 
selection  of  the  storekeepers  or  not — the  distillers  f— A.  Yes,  sir;  some- 
thing to  that  elfect. 

Q.  Can  you  give  me  the  names  of  anybody A.  No,  sir ;  can't 

give  any  names. 

Q.  Can  you  not  tell  us  any  distiller  that  ever  said  anything  to  you 
about  it  ? — A.  No  one  that  ever  said  anything  to  me  about  it. 

Q.  Or  any  storekeeper? — A.  No,  sir;  not  that  I  can  recollect.  I 
know  that  distillers  did  not,  and  can't  recollect  about  the  storekeepers 
saying  anything. 

Q.  Do  you  know  where  the  money  raised  by  assessments  went  ? — A. 
No,  sir.  It  went  generally  to  the  executive  committee,  the  Congressional 
committee,  or  something  of  that  kind.  I  mean  that  was  where  it  was 
supposed  to  go. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  purpose  it  was  applied  to  f — A.  I  don't ;  no, 
sir. 

Q.  At  this  time,  about  which  I  have  asked  you,  and  you  declined  to 
answer,  were  you  a  ganger  then,  or  special  deputy — in  1880? — A.  I  was 
appointed  ganger  the  latter  part  of  August,  1880;  had  been  deputy  col- 
lector up  to  that  time. 

Q.  It  was  not  a  part  of  your  duty  to  pay  off  the  officers,  or  anything 
of  that  sort? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  you  got  some  blank  checks  about  that  time,  and, 
if  so,  who  gave  them  to  you  ? — A.  I  don't  care  to  answer  that. 

The  CHAIR3IAN.  The  mere  fact  of  receiving  some  checks  from  some- 
body would  not  criminate  you,  I  don't  suppose. 


40  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Mr.  Pool.  I  should  think  that  woukl  be  looking  very  strongly  in  the 
same  direction,  receiving  checks  for  the  purpose  of  doing  this  thing. 

The  Chairman.  He  has  not  said  that. 

Q.  (To  the  witness.)  Did  anybody  offer  you  any  checks — you  need 
not  say  you  received  any — any  blank  checks  ? — A.  I  don't  care  to  an- 
swer that  either. 

Q.  You  think  that  the  action  of  somebody  else  would  criminate  you  ? 
I  will  ask  you  if  Dr.  Mott  or  his  chief  clerk  did  not  give  you,  or  offer 
you,  a  lot  of  checks  at  the  time  of  which  I  speak  ? — A.  I  don't  care  to 
answer  that. 

The  Chairman.  What  do  the  committee  say — shall  he  answer  that 
question  or  not  ? 

Senator  Mitchell.  Section  6  of  the  act  of  August  15,  187G,  reads  : 

That  all  executive  officers  or  employes  of  the  United  States  not  apiiointed  by  the 
President,  with  the  advice  and  consent  of  the  Senate,  are  prohibited  from  requesting, 
giving  to,  or  receiving  from  any  other  officer  or  employ^  of  the  government  any 
money  or  property  or  other  thing  of  value  for  political  purposes; 

And  any  such  officer  or  employe  who  shall  offend  against  the  provisions  of  this  sec- 
tion shall  be  at  once  discharged  from  the  service  of  the  United  States; 

And  he  shall  also  be  deemed  guilty  of  a  misdemeanor,  and,  on  conviction  thereof, 
shall  be  lined  in  a  sum  not  exceeding  five  hundred  dollars.  (P.  245,  Supplement  to 
Revised  Statutes.) 

The  Chairman.  What  statute  fixes  the  time  within  which  prosecu- 
tions may  be  had  for  such  offenses  ? 

Senator  McDill.  Section  lO^-t  of  the  Eevised  Statutes  of  the  United 
States  says : 

No  person  shall  be  prosecuted,  tried,  or  punished  for  any  offense  not  capital,  except 
as  provided  in  section  ten  hiindi'ed  and  forty-six,  unless  the  indictment  is  found  or 
the  information  is  instituted  within  two  years  after  such  offense  is  committed. 

Section  1040  says: 

No  person  shall  be  prosecuted,  tried,  or  punished  for  any  crime  arising  under  the 
revenue  law,  or  the  slave-trade  laws  of  the  United  States,  unless  the  indictment  is 
found  or  the  information  is  instituted  within  five  years  next  after  the  committing  of 
such  a  crime. 

So,  I  suppose,  five  years  wonld  be  the  limitation. 
Senator  Mitchell.  Here  are  sections  103  and  859  of  the  Eevised 
Statutes : 
Section  103  (reading) : 

No  witness  is  privileged  to  refuse  to  testify  to  any  fact,  or  to  produce  any  paper,  re- 
specting wliich  he  shall  be  examined  by  either  house  of  Congress,  or  by  any  commit- 
tee of  either  house,  upon  T-he  ground  that  his  testimony  to  such  fact,  or  his  produc- 
tion of  such  paper,  may  tend  to  disgrace  him  or  otherwise  render  him  infamous. 

It  refers  to  section  859,  which  reads : 

No  testimony  given  by  a  witness  before  either  house,  or  before  any  committee  of 
rdther  house  of  Congress,  shall  be  used  as  evidence  in  any  criminal  proceeding  against 
liim  in  any  court,  except  in  a  prosecution  for  perjury  connnitted  in  giving  such  testi- 
mony,    iint  an  official  paper  of  record  produced  by  him  is  not  within  the  privilege. 

Tlic  Chairman.  Suppose  we  reserve  the  question. 

L.   \V.  Brvan  swoi'ii  and  exniniiicd. 

Ily  tiic  Chaiijman: 
(,)Mesti()M.  Wlicre  do  youlive .' — Answer.  1  live  in  SurryCounty,  North 
CaroliiKi. 

(}.   .\i(' you  a  distiller? — A.  Yes,  sir;   1  ;iin  running  a  distillery. 
(].   Wlieie  is  your  distillery  located  ?— A.  In  Yadkin  County. 
(,).   In  the  sixtli  (list ri(;t ?~A.  Yes,  sir. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  41 

Q.  How  long-  have  you  beeu  distilling! — A.  I  commenced  about  the 
first  of  April,  1880,  I  reckon. 

Q.  Whom  have  you  had  for  storekeepers? — xV.  I  had  a  man  by  the 
name  of  Shore. 

Q.  Any  one  else  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  a  man  by  the  name  of  Captain  Stevens. 

Q.  Are  those  all  ?— A.  A  Mr.  Vestal. 

Q.  Did  either  of  them  ever  divide  their  pay  with  you  ? — A.  They  did 
not;  no,  sir. 

Q.  Neither  of  them  ever  divided  their  pay  with  you? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  3'ou  know  of  such  a  case,  where  any  of  the  officers  divided  their 
pay  with  the  distillers  ? — A.  I  do  not. 

Q.  Did  some  of  them  offer  to  divide  their  pay  with  you? — A.  No,  sir; 
none  of  the  men  that  storekept  for  me. 

Q.  Did  any  storekeepers  that  did  not  "storekeep"  for  you  ever  oft'er 
to  divide  with  you  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Sometimes  the  storekeepers,  being  unassigned,  would  be  anxious 
for  a  job ;  that  is  so,  is  it  not  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  any  of  those  out  of  employment  offer  to  ''storekeep"  for  you 
for  less  than  the  regular  pay  and  allow  you  to  take  the  balance? — A. 
I  have  had  storekeepers  come  up  and  say  ''they  would  treat  me  right," 
and  so  on,  but  I  never  proposed  to  make  any  arrangement  with  them. 
The  storekeepers  I  had  at  the  time  appeared  to  be  doing  their  duty,  but 
nothing  was  said  about  dividing  their  pay;  did  not  make  that  proposi- 
tion. 

Q.  What  did  you  understand  by  a  man  saying  he  would  "treat  you 
right"? — A.  I  don't  know  what  they  might  mean,  exactly,  by  saying 
that  "  they  were  willing  to  treat  me  right."  The  law  prescribed  the  way 
they  should  treat  me,  but  they  did  not  make  any — I  encouraged  nothing 
of  that  kind. 

Q.  Did  the  pay  of  these  storekeepers,  or  any  of  them  who  kept  store 
for  you,  ever  pass  through  your  hands  ? — A.  I  don't  know  that  it  did. 

Q.  Explain  what  you  mean  by  that. — A.  I  just  mean  that  I  don't 
recollect  that  any  of  their  funds  passed  through  my  hands.  Your  ques- 
tion was :  Did  any  of  their  funds — the  funds  they  received  for  storekeep- 
ing — pass  through  my  hands  ? 

"Q.  Yes.— A.  My  answer  is,  I  don't  recollect  that  ever  it  did.  I  don't 
know  that  I  had  any  transactions.  I  don't  know;  it  might;  I  could 
not  say. 

Q.  AVbere  did  these  men  who  kept  store  for  you  board  ? — A.  They  all 
boarded  at  their  own  homes. 

Q.  None  of  them  boarded  with  you? — A.  No,  sir;  I  lived  in  the  fifth 
and  they  lived  in  the  sixth.     None  of  them  boarded  at  my  house. 

Q.  Did  you  not  tell  Colonel  Armfleld  that  this  man  Vestal  had  di- 
vided with  you  ? — A.  I  did  not.  I  have  not  seen  Colonel  Armfield  since 
Vestal  storekept  for  me.  He  was  only  three  months  storekeeping  for 
me.  I  stopped  some  time  in  November.  Maybe  he  was  not  there  a 
couple  of  months. 

Q.  Did  you  not  tell  Colonel  Armfield  that  some  storekeeper  had  di- 
vided his  pay  with  you ;  that  you  received  his  check,  and  sometimes  you 
would  give  him  the  odd  81  of  the  8101;  and  sometimes  you  would  keep 
that  amount  and  give  him  $50,  or  sometimes  you  would  keep  that  $101 
and  give  him  850  ? — A.  I  have  no  recollection  of  telling  Colonel  Arm- 
field  any  such  thing. 

Q.  It  was  in  '80,  during  the  campaign,  when  Colonel  Armfield  was 
at  your  house? — A.  Yes,  sir;  it  was. 


42  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  You  have  no  recoUectiou  of  telling  biui  any  «ucli  tbing  as  that? — 
A.  'So,  sir. 

Q.  And  that  you  had  storekeepers  to  offer  you  a  dollar  a  day,  but 
that  the  man  you  had  was  so  "biddable,"  and  did  what  you  wanted  him 
to  do,  that  you  hated  to  discharge  him.  You  say  none  of  that  conver- 
sation took  place  ? — A.  I  have  no  recollection  of  anything  of  that. 

Q.  Can  you  tell  me  anything  about  the  custom  of  storekeepers  in 
that  respect — of  dividing  with  distillers? — A.  No,  sir;  I  cannot. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  the  fact  or  the  system  of  making 
two  or  three  small  stills  instead  of  one  large  one,  for  the  purpose  of 
enabling  distillers  to  run  small  distilleries  by  the  help  of  the  store- 
keeper's pay  ? — A.  Do  I  know  about  the  fact  ? 

Q.  Yes.  Do  you  know  if  such  a  custom  was  in  vogue;  that  they 
divided  a  twelve-bushel  still,  for  instance,  into  three  four-bushel  stills 
for  the  purpose  of  enabling  storekeepers  to  help  the  distiller  along  by 
dividing  his  pay  with  them  ? — A.  No,  sir.  I  know  there  was  a  law 
passed  that  they  could  run  a  four-bushel  distillery. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  cases  where  men  divided  their  stills  and  made 
two  or  three  out  of  one  ? — A.  No,  sir.  I  know  of  those  that  were  run- 
ning a  "distillery,  and  then  would  put  up  another.  I  know  one  or  two 
instances  of  that  kind  in  that  district. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  cases  where  men  paid  extraordinary  prices  for 
board — the  storekeepers — in  boarding  with  the  distillers? — A.  Well,  I 
don't  know  that  I  do — that  I  ever  knew  such  a  thing. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  a  distiller  or  a  storekeeper  say  so  ? — A.  No,  sir, 
I  don't  know  that  I  did;  but  it  is  outside  rumor  that 'they  did  do  such  a 
thing,  but  I  don't  know  any  instance  to  cite  to  you;  just  mere  rumor, 
such  was  the  case. 

Q.  Can  you  give  me  the  names  of  anybody  that  said  so? — A.  I  don't 
know  that  I  could. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  assessments  being  levied  upon  offi- 
cers for  political  purposes  ? — A.  I  have  heard  a  good  deal  of  rumor  that 
there  was  such  going  on.  As  to  my  i^ersoual  knowledge  of  it  I  don't 
know. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  any  storekeeper  say  he  had  been  assessed,  and 
if  so.  who? — A.  No,  sir.  I  don't  know  that  I  ever  heard  them  say  they 
had  been  assessed.  I  have  heard  them  say  they  had  contributed.  I 
don't  know  how  much;  would  not  recollect  now  how  much. 

Q.  Can  you  give  us  the  names  of  those  who  said  they  had  contrib- 
uted ? — A.  I  don't  knoAvthat  I  would  recollect.  1  have  heard  them  fre- 
qnently  say  thev  would  give  so  much  for  campaign  purposes. 

Adjourned  till  10  a.  m.,  June  17,  1882. 


AVashington,  June  17,  1882. 
Tlie  cojiimittee  met  at  10  a.  m. 

W.  C.  Morrison  recalled  and  examined. 
Jiy  tlie  Chairman  : 

(^Micstion.  Ill  your  oi'igiiial  examination  you  stated  that  ]\lr.  Gillespie 
])r»'S('iit('d  yon  aciieck,  which  he  asked  y(m  to  indorse,  as  a  contribution 
lor  p(»liti(Ml  jnn]»oses? — Answer.  Yes,  sir. 

<,>.   Was  if  filled  out  mIk^i  you  indorsed  it? — A.  No,  sir. 

^>.  How  much  was  if  afferwards  filled  up  for? — A.  The  check  for  that 
month  I  never  g(»f — llie  $1(>S, 


THE    SIXTH    DLSTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  43 

Q.  Do  you  know  tlie  bank  tiiat  check  was  diawn  on.' — A.  The 
Kaleijili  National,  1  think. 

Q.  What  oliice  did  Mr.  Gillespie  hohl  when  he  presented  that  check  ? 
— A.  Deputy  collector. 

Q.  He  was  not  a  disbursing  agent  of  the  department;  it  was  not  his 
business  to  pay  the  officers,  or  anvthiug  ? — A.  No,  sir;  not  that  I  know 
of. 

Q.  AYas  that  the  bank  that  the  checks  for  your  pay  were  usually 
drawn  upon? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  Avas  the  understanding  with  the  officers  as  to  what  would 
T)econie  of  you  if  you  refused  to  give  this  contribution '? — A.  Nothing  at 
all  that  I  know  of,  sir. 

Q.  Y"ou  don't  know  of  any  penalty  that  would  be  visited  upon  you  ? — 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Don't  you  know  in  fact  that  some  were  di^scharged,  as  they  de- 
clined to  give  the  money  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Was  not  Mcintosh  discharged  because  he  declined ? — A.  I  don't 
know,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  not  heard  him  say  so  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Was  it  not  frequently  the  case  that  they  failed  to  get  any  assign- 
ment to  duty  if  they  declined  to  contribute? — A.  Some  were  out  and 
some  were  in.     I  don't  know  whether  that  was  the  cause  of  it  or  not. 

Q.  Was  it  not  generally  understood  that  if  any  of  them  voted  ♦the 
Democratic  ticket  they  would  be  discharged? — A.  I  don't  know,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  who  were  said  to  be  so  discharged  ? — A.  No, 
sir ;  not  of  my  own  knowledge. 

Q.  I  asked  you  if  you  knew  of  any  that  were  said  to  have  been  dis- 
charged in  that  way  ?  I  believe  you  said  in  your  first  examination  that 
Mr.  Price  and  Mr.  John  Kerr  Bailey  were  so  discharged. — A.  I  have 
heard  so. 

Q.  Have  you  not  stated  to  a  gentleman,  since  you  have  been  in  this 
city,  that  you  did  not  intend  to  say  anything  except  what  you  were 
obliged  to,  but  that  it  was  generally  understood  that  the  men  would  be 
discharged  if  they  did  not  give  these  checks  ? — A.  No,  sir;  don't  know 
that  I  said  "  discharged." 

Q.  What  did  you  say? — A.  I  said  that  I  had  not  said  anything  only 
what  I  was  obliged  to  say ;  did  not  say  anything  about  being  dis- 
charged. 

Q.  Did  you  not  say  something  to  a  gentleman  to  the  effect  that  men 
would  bo  discharged  or  fail  to  get  any  assignment  if  they  did  not  con- 
tribute ? — A.  No,  sir ;  I  don't  remember  saying  that. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  the  direct  question,  if  you  did  not  tell  Mr.  M.  C. 
Williams  that  the  understanding  among  the  men  was  that  if  they  did 
not  pay,  notwithstanding  it  was  called  a  voluntary  contribution,  they 
would  be  discharged  or  fail  to  get  an  assignment? — A.  No,  sir;  I  don't 
think  I  ever  told  him  they  would  be  discharged. 

Q.  Did  you  say  the  other  part  of  it — what  did  you  say  to  Mr.  Will- 
iams on  this  subject? — A.  I  don't  remember  saying  anything  about  be- 
ing discharged,  on  that  subject. 

Q.  Did  you  say  anything  about  what  would  be  the  fate  of  an  officer 
who  voted  the  Democratic  ticket  ? — A.  I  don't  remember. 

Q.  You  deny  ever  having  said  anything  of  that  sort  to  Mr.  Williams  ? — 
A.  About  getting  an  assignment? 

Q.  Yes,  or  being  discharged. — A.  No,  sir:  I  don't  remember  any- 
thing about  being  discharged. 

Q.  What  did  you  say  ? — A.  I  don't  remember  now. 


44  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Did  yon  say  auytbing  to  the  eft'ect  that  if  a  man  did  these  thiugs, 
if  he  woukl  either  fail  to  contribute  or  vote  .anything  but  the  Republican 
ticket,  that  he  would  be  discharged,  or  that  he  would  fail  to  get  an 
assignment  to  duty,  and  lose  the  benefit  of  his  appointment? — A.  I  said 
to  him  that  I  had  heard  3Ir.  Price  and  Mr.  Bailey  had  been  turned  out 
on  account  of  voting  the  Democratic  ticket;  all  I  remember  about  say- 
ing. 

Cross-examination  by  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  I  understood  you  to  say  that  you  contributed  for  campaign  pur- 
poses; did  you  do  so  willingly? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  There  was  no  constraint  init  upon  you  in  that  respect  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  said  you  heard  that  some  persons,  one  or  two,  Mr.  Price  and 
perhaps  another,  were  discharged  for  voting  the  Democratic  ticket  ? — 
A.  I  have  heard  it  spoken  of;  don't  know  it  of  my  own  knowledge. 

Q.  Y'ou  mean  simply  as  a  rumor,  or  idle  talk  of  some  individual  whose 
name  you  have  forgotten  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  the  individual  who  said  so  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  That  applies  only  to  JNfr.  Price  and  one  other  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  many  officers  are  there  in  that  district  ? — A.  I  don't  know, 
sir. 

Q.  Forty  or  fifty  ? — A.  More  than  that,  I  guess. 

Q.  I  suppose  it  is  a  common  thing  for  them  to  be  discharged,  now  and 
then ;  here  one  and  there  one  ? — A.  Oh,  yes,  sir. 

Q.  For  one  cause  or  another? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(^.  And  you  don't  generally  hear  what  the  cause  is  ? — A.  jSTo,  sir. 

O.  M.  Barkley  sworn  and  examined. 
By  the  Chair:man  : 

Question.  Where  do  you  reside? — Answer.  Statesville,  North  Caro- 
lina. 

Q.  Are  you  now  connected  with  the  internal-revenue  department  in 
tliat  district  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  AVere  you  at  any  time  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  From  when  to  when  ? — A.  Off  and  on  about  seven  years. 

(^>.  AYhen  did  you  (luit? — A.  I  quit  about  two  mouths  ago,  I  think  it 
was. 

Q.  You  are  7iot  in  the  service  now  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  In  what  capacity  did  you  serve? — A.  Storekeeper  and  ganger. 

(^.  Do  you  recollect  about  the  distilleries  of  Mr.  Daniels;  how  many 
did  lie  liave? — A.  I  don't  remember;  some  four  or  five  in  all. 

(}.  Where  were  they  located? — A.  Two  of  them  were  southeast  of 
Statesville,  one  was  east,  I  think,  and  one  northwest. 

Q.  J  low  far  were  they  all  from  iStatesville  ? — A.  The  nearest  about  a 
mile  and  a  half,  1  think. 

Q.  They  were  all  immediately  around  the  town  ! — A.  Not  more  than 
five  miles  from  the  farthest. 

(^.  Were  you  storckceijcr  for  either  of  them'? — A.  I  was  storekeeper 
for  Mr.  Dani(!]s  a  f(^\v  months,  until  he  sold  out. 

i^.  Wiio  selectetl  yon  for  that  distillery  ? — A.  I  was  assigned  there  by 
Mr.  Coilc. 

<,>.  I)oyou  know  w  Iict  li(  r  Daniels  wanted  you  or  not? — .\.  T  don't ; 
no  sir.  If  lie  did  not — at  least  1  never  heard  if  he  wanted  nu'  or  not — 
tlier(!  was  no  ol)je(;tioii,  and  1  was  sent  there. 

(>.  Von  say  yon  were  removed  from  liis  distillery? — A.  He  sold  it 
oni.     I  still  sliHil  on  willi   tlie  party  who  bonglit  it. 


THE    «1XTII    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  45 

Q.  Who  bougiit  it? — A.  A  man  by  the  name  of  Brown. 

Q.  What  was  your  pay  '? — A.  Three  doRars  a  day. 

Q.  Did  you  divide  any  of  it  with  the  dintiller! — A.  Xo,  sir.  I  always 
drawod  my  own  check. 

Q.  Did  you  keep  it  all  ?— A.  I  did. 

Q.  Do  you  kuow  of  any  storekeepers  who  divided  with  the  distillers  ? 
— A.  Xo,  sir;  I  do  not. 

Q.  Did  you  hear  any  of  them  say  so,  either  a  storekeeper  or  distiller 
— A.  Xo.     I  don't  remember.     I  heard  it  told  that  parties  wanted  them 
to  divide  and  they  would  not  do  it. 

Q.  Heard  that  parties  wanted  them  to  divide — who,  these  distillers  ? 
and  the  storekeepers  refused? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  case  where  the  distillers  refused  to  have 
storekeepers  because  they  would  not  divide  ? — A.  No,  sir.  I  don't  re- 
member.    I  always  went  along-  and  attended  to  my  own  business. 

Q.  Still  you  might  have  heard  what  was  going  on  in  your  depart- 
ment ? — A.  I  was  never  there  ;  away  much  of  the  time.  I  did  not  live 
in  town  and  did  not  pay  any  attention  to  that  thing  then. 

Q.  What  distiller  did  you  hear  say  he  wanted  the  storekeepers  to 
divide? — A.  I  don't  remember  now.  I  just  heard  it  talked;  somewhere 
on  the  streets,  I  believe  it  was. 

Q.  What  storekeeper  did  you  hear  say  he  had  refused  to  divide? — A. 
I  can't  tell  you,  because  I  never  paid  any  attention  to  it;  just  heard  the 
remark  of  some  one. 

Q.  Such  remarks  were  very  common,  and  did  not  strike  you  particu- 
larly ? — A.  Very  common,  and  paid  no  attention  to  them. 

Q.  And  you  could  not  be  any  more  specific? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  contribute  anything  for  political  purposes  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  How  much  ? — A.  Well,  I  contributed  for  campaign  purposes  for 
the  President. 

Q.  lu  1880  ?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  much? — A.  I  don't  remember  the  amount — in  a  check;  for- 
get how  much  it  was. 

Q.  Was  it  your  month's  salary? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  Who  asked  you  for  that  ? — A.  I  don't  remember  now  who  asked 
it.  I  think  I  gave  it  to  the  executive  committee.  Since  then  I  have 
sent  it  to  the  executive  committee. 

Q.  Did  not  Mr.  Gillespie  ask  you  for  it? — A.  I  think  he  was  the  first 
one  ever  mentioned  it  to  me. 

Q.  Was  not  the  check  presented  to  you  in  blank,  to  be  indorsed  by 
you? — A.  I  don't  remember  whether  it  was  a  blank  check,  or  whether 
it  was  a  check  I  gave;  don't  remember  which. 

Q.  Did  you  send  it  yourself  direct  to  the  executive  committee,  or 
give  it  to  some  one  to  be  sent  there  ? — A.  I  left  it  in  the  office. 

Q.  In  Dr.  Mott's  office? — A.  Y^es,  sir;  to  be  sent  to  the  committee. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  get  any  acknowledgment  from  the  committee  for  it? 
— A.  I  think  I  did.  1  did  of  the  others;  think  I  did  that;  don't  remem- 
ber. 

Q.  How  many  others  did  you  send  ? — A.  For  political  purposes  ?  I 
gave  five  dollars  now  and  ten  dollars  again,  and  so  on.  Of  course  I 
don't  remember;  ueverkept  any  account  of  it,  as  we  good  Eepublicans 
down  there  generally  do. 

Q.  To  what  purpose  was  the  money  applied,  did  you  say  ? — A.  Cam- 
paign purposes,  I  suppose.    I  don't  know. 


46  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Yon  don't  know  ? — A.  Xo,  sir.  That  is  what  it  was  gotten  up 
for. 

Q.  Did  .voii  understand  any  of  it  went  to  the  support  of  newspapers? — 
A.  I  don't  know ;  guess  it  was  distributed  around  for  different  purposes ; 
can't  telh 

Q.  You  had  some  idea  what  the  campaign  purposes  were,  had  you 
not? — A.  Xo,  sir;  I  have  no  idea.  I  know  speakers  had  to  be  paid, 
newspapers  published :  who  was  paid  I  don't  know,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  when  Jim  Harris  was  on  the  list  of  storekeepers  ? — 
A.  No,  sir ;  I  do  not ;  that  is  the  first  I  ever  heard  of  it. 

Q.  Was  he  not  there  in  the  district,  pretending  to  do  work '? — A.  1 
don't  know.     I  saw  him  at  the  office ;  don't  know  what  his  business  was. 

Q.  Y'ou  never  saw  him  doing  any  public  work  ? — A.  I  saw  him  in  the 
office. 

Q.  You  never  saw  him  doing  any  official  duty  ? — A.  I  saw  him  in  there 
writing. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  of  hear  of  him  having  any  official  duty  to  per- 
form?— A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Did  he  make  any  political  speeches  around  there  in  that  campaign 
of  1880 .' — A.  Jim  Harris  is  generally  on  the  stump  when  any  political 
tiling  is  going  on. 

Q.  AVhere  did  he  speak  in  that  country  ?— A.  I  don't  know,  sir;  I  can 
remember  of  him  speaking  in  different  places. 

Q.  In  the  district  or  out  ? — A.  He  spoke  once  or  twice,  I  think,  in  the 
district  there ;  1  don't  know  of  but  one  or  two  speeches  that  I  heard  him 
make  in  the  district.  I  suppose  he  made  fifty,  but  I  don't  know.  I 
know  of  a  couple  of  times  he  spoke  close  to  town ;  all  I  rememljer. 

Q.  What  office  does  Mr.  E.  B.  Drake  hold — the  old  gentleman  ? — A. 
I  don't  know,  sir  ;  he  has  something  to  do  with  the  revenue  office,  but  I 
don't  know  what  it  is. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  see  him  do  anything?— A.  Yes,  sir;  I  have  seen  him 
going  off  in  the  country,  at  least  going  off  on  the  railroad.  I  supposed 
he  wiis  a  ganger — don't  know  what  he  was — or  general  storekeeper. 

(^.  What  are  the  duties  of  a  general  storekeeper? — A.  He  has  to  go 
and  gauge  the  licpiors  when  a  man  wants  to  withdraw  them  from  the 
wareliouse,  and  when  a  distillery  is  suspended  the  keys  are  turned  over 
to  the  general  storekeeper. 

Q.  When  a  distillery  is  in  operation  a  storekeeper  is  assigned  to  it 
whose  duty  it  is  to  carry  the  keys  and  attend  to  it? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(^.  When  a  distillery  is  susi)ended  it  is  put  in  charge  of  a  general 
storekeeper  who  keeps  the  keys  but  don't  stay  at  the  distillery  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

(}.  And  wliere  tlu^  owner  of  the  liquor  in  a  bonded  warehouse  wants 
to  witlxliaw  any  of  it  the  general  storek«'('i»er's  duty  is  to  take  Urn  keys 
and  open  the  warehouse,  regauge  and  stamp  the  licpior,  and  keep  the 
keys? — A.   Ves,  sir. 

(}.  N'oii  do  not  know  how  ninch  of  that  duty  Mr.  Drake  has  dons'? — 
A.   I  d<»n't;  thcie  is  a  good  deal  of  it  to  do. 

(^.  How  in;in.\  general  slor«'keei»ers  were  there  in  Statesville,  or  near 
there?— A.  I  don't  know  of  any  oidy  iNIr,  Drake;  don't  remember  of 
an.N . 

Q.  Don't  yon  know  .Mr.  Henry  Mott  was  one  ^ — A.  No,  sir.  I  thought 
Mr.  Henry  Mott  was  deputy  colh.'ctor.     1  don't  know  what  he  is. 

(^.  Did  you  know  that  Mr.  Camm.  I'earsou  was  a  general  store- 
keeper?— A.  He  might  have  been  in  th«^  western  i»art  of  the  district,, 
about  I\!or;;anton. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  47 

Q.  Yoli  don't  know  liow  many  there  were  aronnd  there  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

(^.  What  other  business  did  Mr.  Drake  foUow  besides  that  of  general 
storekeeper  ? — A.  He  is  a  printer,  and  runs  the  American  office. 

Q.  He  is  editor  and  proprietor  of  tlie  American? — A.  ZSTo,  sir;  Mr. 
Bill  Drake  is  the  proprietor  of  the  office. 

Q.  Now  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  has  been  for  a  couple  of  years. 

Q.  Mr.  E.  B.  Drake  edits  it  ?— A.  I  don't  know  whether  the  old  gen- 
tleman has  anything  to  do  with  it.  I  saw  him  uj)  there  writing  some- 
times. 

Q.  How  often  did  you  ever  see  him  go  off  with  a  gauging  rod  ? — A. 
I  don't  remember;  saw  him  several  times — don't  know  how  many  times. 

Q.  You  remember  when  Daniels's  distilleries  Avere  seized  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  When  the  liquor  was  lost,  found  buried,  and  so  on  f — A.  I  remem- 
ber something  about  it. 

Q.  It  was  under  suspension  then,  was  it  not  ? — A.  Y'^es,  sir.  One  was 
just  starting  up  ;  just  tixiug  to  start  up. 

Q.  It  was  under  suspension  when  seized  ? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  Who  was  the  general  storekeeper  in  charge  of  that  distillery  ? — 
A.  I  could. not  tell;  I  don't  know. 

Q.  Do  you  know  who  had  the  keys  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  When  the  liquor  was  stolen  ? — A.  I  don't  know. 

Q.  Were  you  there  ? — A.  No,  sir.  I  was  on  duty  at  my  place  every 
day,  and  don't  know  anything  about  it  at  all. 

Q.  Where  was  your  place  ? — A.  Ten  miles  and  a  half  northwest  of 
town. 

Q.  You  did  not  hear  about  the  row  ' — A.  Heard  it  after  it  was  all 
over. 

Q.  Did  you  understand  whose  district  it  was  in — what  general  store- 
keeper's ? — A,  No,  sir.  I  don't  know  whose — the  general  storekeeper 
of  the  county ;  then  laid  oft'  in  counties. 

Q.  Did  you  receive  a  letter  from  Washington  some  time  in  January 
last  through  the  collector's  office  asking  you  if  the  collector  owed  you 
anything,  and  if  your  salary  had  been  paid,  &c.t — A.  If  the  collector 
owed  me  anything  ? 

Q.  Yes. — A.  Not  that  I  remember,  sir. 

Q.  Let  me  read  it  to  you.  [Exhibit  1  read. J  Did  yon  receive  such  a 
letter  as  that  ? — A.  If  I  did,  I  don't  remember.  If  I  did,  you  will  And 
the  answer  for  it.  I  answered  all  letters  written  to  me — anything  writ- 
ten from  Washington. 

Q.  Did  you  not  receive  this  letter  and  hand  it  over  to  a  Mr.  Hall,  and 
ask  him  to  answer  it  for  you  ? — A.  There  is  no  man  in  the  office  by  that 
name. 

Q.  You  can  answer  the  question? — A.  There  is  no  man  of  that 
name 

Q.  No  man  living  of  that  name? — A.  No  man  in  the  office.  There  is 
a  Frank  Hall 

Q.  Just  answer  the  question. — A.  I  did  not. 

Q.  Did  you  ask  anybody  to  answer  this  for  you  ? — A.  I  think  Mr. 
Hall  Caldwell.     I  asked  Mr.  Hall  Caldwell  to  answer  it. 

Q.  I  will  read  you  something  more. 

(Exhibit  2  read.) 

A.  That  is  the  letter  I  wrote  and  gave  him  to  copy. 

Q.  You  gave  it  to  Hall  Caldwell  and  asked  him  to  copy  it  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 


48  COLLECTION    OF    INTERXAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if,  with  tliis  letter  from  the  Commissioner  sent  to 
you,  this  form  of  au  answer  did  not  also  come  to  you*?— A.  Xq,  sir. 

Q.  And  on  it  was  written  (quoting),  "Write  something  like  this"; 
"Copy  this"? — A.  Xo,  sir;  nothing  of  the  kind. 

Q.  From  whom  did  this  form  come? — A.  I  wrote  that,  and  asked  Mr. 
Caldwell  to  copy  it  for  me. 

Q.  Did  not  a  letter  like  this  accompany  the  Commissioner's  letter? — 
A.  No,  sir ;  it  did  not. 

Q.  With  the  instructions  on  the  margin  "Write  something  like  this"? 
— A.  ]Sro,  sir ;  it  did  not. 

Q.  This  was  written  entirely  by  you,  without  any  dictation  from  any 
one  ? — A.  It  was  written  by  myself  and  handed  to  Caldwell  to  copy. 
He  wrote  a  good  hand. 

Q.  You  did  not  sign  it  at  all  ? — A.  Of  course  not.  I  signed  the  one  I 
gave  him  to  copj^ 

Q.  He  just  re-wrote  your  copy,  signed  the  name  and  all,  and  sent  it 
on  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  receive  a  circular  letter  from  the  collector's  office  at  any 
time  asking  vou  what  your  politics  were  ? — A.  From  the  sixth  district 
there  ? 

Q.  Yes. — A.  Never  did. 

Q.  From  the  collector's  office? — A.  I  have  always  been  a  Eepublican. 
They  knew  Avhat  I  was.    Never  received  anything  of  the  kind. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  such  a  letter  having  been  addressed  to  the  officers 
of  the  district? — A.  I  do  not. 

Q.  You  never  heard  of  any  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  officers  discharged,  or  who  failed  to  get  as- 
signments, because  of  their  politics  ? — A.  If  there  was  I  never  heard  it. 

Q.  You  never  heard  Mr.  Price  say  he  was  discharged  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Nor  Mr.  Fesperman? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  never  heard  that  INIr.  Bailey  was  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know"  the  reason  why  Price  was  discharged? — A.  I  don't 
know.  They  discharge  them  every  now  and  then  when  they  do  not  do 
their  duty  right. 

Cross-examination,  by  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  How  did  5'ou  come  to  get  out  of  the  revenue  service  two  months 
iigo  ? — A.  I  just  resigned  of  my  own  good  will.  I  had  other  work  to  do, 
and  could  not  well  run  the  revenue  and  attend  to  that  too. 

(^.  ])id  you  ever  hear  that  Mr.  E.  P.  Drake  neglected  his  official 
duties? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  of  any  negligence  of  duty  on  his  part? — A.  No, 
sir. 

Q.  Is  ^h\  Drake  a  man  of  liigh  character  and  standing  in  the  commu- 
nity?— A.  Yes,  sir;  considered  tliat  in  Statesville. 

(,).  How  old  a  m;in  is  he? — A.  About  sixty  to  sixty-five  years  old. 

(^).  J  low  long  lias  he  been  the  editor  of  the  Statesville  American  ? — 
A.  Something  over  twenty  years.  I  think  longer  than  that — about 
twenty-Ove  oi-  thirty  y<'ars. 

Q.  1)1(1  von  fonlriWiite  wliat  you  ga\e  to  campaign  funds  willingly? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

i).  Was  tliei'e  an\'  conipnlsion  llicn  n]>on  you? — A.  No,  sir;  none 
wliatev  er. 

(}.  W'iiy  (ii<l  yon  ask  Mr.  Cahlwcll  loeopy  lliat  letter  for  yon — because 
von  (lid  not  wiitea  good  hand  .' — A.  I  got  him  to  write  Ix'canse  lie  wi'ote 
a  hetter  hand  then  J  could,  and  had  the  i»a]»er  and  ink.    1  just  asked  him 


THE,  SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  49 

to  copy  it.     I  Nvrote  it  olf  and  wanted  to  get  it  lij-lit  back.     It  said,  an- 
swer immediately. 

Q.  Jt  ^^'as  a  mere  matter  of  convenience  to  yourself,  and  the  purpose 
of  liavinf^-  the  letter  co])ied  was  that  he  wrote  a  better  hand  than  you 
could? — A.  Yes,  sir.  lie  wrote  a  splendid  hand  and  I  got  him  to  copy 
it  for  me. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  If  you  had  not  been  requested  by  an  officer  of  the  department 
would  you  have  given  $108  to  the  campaign  fund? — A.  AVould  1  have 
given  it  ? 

Q.  Yes? — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  If  anybody  from  the  department  had  not  asked  you? — A.  Of 
course,  where  other  parties  gave,  1  am  willing  to  give  too.  1  think,  as 
11  general  rule,  other  parties  gave  that  were  not  in  ofitice. 

Q.  All  the  officers  did  give,  did  they? — A.  1  don't  know  whether  they 
did  or  not. 

Q.  That  was  the  understanding;  they  were  all  asked  in  the  same  way 
iis  you  were? — A.  Yes,  sir.  ' 

Q.  If  such  a  request  was  not  made  to  you,  would  you  have  gone  for- 
ward of  your  own  motion  and  sent  1 108  to  the  executive  committee? — 
A.  If  I  found  the  executive  committee  wanted  it,  I  would. 

W.  H.  Kestler  sworn  and  examined. 
By  the  Chairman: 

Question.  VVere  you  at  one  time  in  the  employ  of  the  collector  of  the 
sixth  internal  revenue  district  of  ISTorth  Carolina?— Answer.  I  was,  sir. 

Q.  State  when. — A.  I  don't  remember  now,  sir;  I  think  it  was  along 
about  September,  in  1874. 

Q.  Where  do  you  live  now? — A.  Salisbury,  N.  C. 

Q.  How  long  were  you  in  the  service? — A.  Only  a  month,  sir. 

Q.  What  pay  did  you  receive? — A.  I  got  $(35. 

Q.  I  tind  a  voucher  here  (reading),  "J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of  internal 
revenue,  G  district  of  N.  C,  to  W.  H.  Kestler,  dr.,  for  services  rendered 
as  dep'ty  coll'r  of  the  C  district  of  K.  C,  during  the  period  commenc- 
ing Oct.  1st,  1872,  and  ending  Oct.  21st,  1872,  inclusive:  §  month,  at 
the  rate  of  $1,200  per  annum,  $65.00.  The  services  were  performed  at 
Statesville.  Keceived  payment,  W.  H.  Kestler,  dep'ty  col.,"  and  so  on. 
Did  you  give  that  voucher? — A.  (Indicating.)  That  is  my  signature. 

Q.  "Subscribed  and  sworn  before  me  this  11th  day  of  September, 
1874.  (Signed)  J.  M.  Ilorah,  clerk  superior  court,  Rowan  County,  X. 
C."— A.  That  is  correct,  sir.     (Marked  Exhibit  6.) 

Q.  And  next  to  it  is  another  vouclier  of  the  same  form:  (Reading) 
^' J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of  internal  revenue,  0  district  of  X.  C,  to  W.  H. 
Kestler,  dr.,  for  services  rendered  as  dep'ty  coll.  of  the  0  district  of 
K.  C,  during  the  period  commencing  Sept.  30,  1872,  and  ending  Dec. 
31,  1872,  inclusive:  Three  months,  at  the  rate  of  $1,500  per  annum, 
$375."  (Signed)  "W.  H.  Kestler,"  and  "sworn  to  10th  of  January, 
1873."  (Voucher  shown  to  witness.) — A.  I  know  nothing  about  that, 
sir. 

Q.  You  say  that  (indicating)  is  not  your  signature?— A.  (Examining) 
No,  sir — don't  think  it  is — no,  sir. 

Q.  It  professes  to  have  been  sworn  to  before  J.  A.  Clark,  deputy 
collector,  the  10th  of  January,  1873. — A.  That  is  not  my  signature. 

Q.  You  say  you  did  not  render  that  service?— A.  No,  sir: 

(Marked  Exhibit  7.j 
S.  Mis.  IIG 4 


50  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q,  I  find  ill  the  "original"  papers  fiirni.slied  me  from  tliedepartment^ 
another  voucher  of  the  same  form;  ^iz  (heading):  "J,  J.  Mott,  col- 
lector of  internal  revenue,  G  district  of  ]S^.  C.  To  W.  11.  Kestler,  T)r. 
For  services  rendered  as  dep'ty  coll.  of  the  G  district  of  IST.  Ca.,  during 
the  period  commencing  Jan'y  1,  IST.'i,  and  ending  M'ch  31, 1873,  inclusive. 
Three  months,  at  the  rate  of  $1,500  per  annum.  (Total)  $375.00.  W. 
H.  Kestler,  ^vitli  the  usual  affidavit,  dated  lOtli  day  of  April,  1873.'^ 
(Voucher  shown  to  witness.)  Will  you  say  if  these  are  yours? — A.  No 
sir. 

(IMarked  Exhibit  S.) 

Q.  This  is  the  10th  of  April,  '73;  that  makes  six  months' services,  or 
two  quarters  over  and  above  what  you  say  is  proper;  you  did  not  render 
that  service? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  did  not  sign  these  vouchers? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  We  offer  these  vouchers  in  evidence. 

Mr.  Pool.  Where  did  they  come  from? 

The  Chairman.  Fram  the  department,  furnished  ine  by  Mr.  Eaum. 

Exhibit  6  is  as  iwllows: 

(()3i.) 
Prescribed  for  use  December  15,  1870. 
(Original.) 

DEPUTY  collectors'  AXD  COLLECTORS'  CLERKS'  ACCOUNT  FOR  SERVICES. 

(To  accompany  Form  G:?,  rendered  to  the  Commissioner  of  luterual  Revenue  with  the 
(piarterly  account  of  expenses  in  Form  91  ) 

J.  J.  Mott,  coUcclor  of  hi1<rnul  revenue,  i^i  dhtriet  of  A^  C,  to  JF.  H.  Keitler,  Dr. 

For  services  rendered  as  dep'tycoll.  of  the  6  district  of  N  C.,.  during  the  periodcom- 
iiiencing  Oct.  1st,  and  ending  Oct.  21st,  1872,  inclusive: 

f  months,  at  the  rate  of  $1,200  per  auuum $65.00 

days,  at  the  rate  of  | —  -  per  day $ 

Connnissious  on collections,  at per  centum $ 

The  services'were  performed  at  Statesville,  and  were  of  the  following  charac- 
ter:  

Received  pavmenl. 

W.  11.  KESTLER,  Deirty  Col. 

I,  W.  H.  Kestler,  deputy  collector  for  J.  J.  INIott,  collector  of  the  Gth  district  of  No. 
Carolina,  (h>  solemnly  swear  that  I  have  faitiifuliy  rendered  the  services  as  above 
charged  ;  that  such  services  were,  in  my  opinion,  itrojier  and  necessary  ;  that  the  rate 
of  comjieMsation  theiein  statcul  i.s  the  .same  as  agiced  u])ou  witli  the  ctdlector,  and  is 
jii.st  ami  reasonable;;  that  I  have  not  i)aid,  depoNited,  or  assigned,  or  contracted  to  pay, 
deitosit,  or  assign  any  ]tart  of  such  coMijteusation  to  the  use  of  the  collector,  or  any 
other  person,  in  any  way,  directly  o]'  indirectly,  or  jtaid,  or  given,  or  c<mtracted  topay 
<ir  givt^  any  revvanl  or  compensation  for  my  ol'lice  or  employment,  or  the  emoluments. 
thereof. 

W.  II.  KESTLER,  Deputy  Col. 

Subscrilted  and  sworn  l)cfore  me  this  11th  da\'  iif  Septemlx'r,  V"^*!. 

J.  M.  IIORAII, 

Clerk  Siijierior  Court,  Rowan  Counti/,  N'.  C 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  51 

E\]iil)it  7  is  as  follows  : 

((5:u.) 

Prescribed  i'or  use  December  1.5,  1870. 
(Original.) 

DKPUTY    COLI.ECTOKS'   AND   COLLKfTOK.s'   CLKKKS'   ACCOUNT  KOli   SKKVICES. 

(To  aocoinpaiiy  Forni  03,  rendered  to  tlie  Coninii8.sioner  of  Interual  Ikcveime  with  the 
quart eily  account  of  ex|)enses  in  Form  'Jl.) 

J.  ./.  Mutt^  coJh'ctor  of  interval  rcrtmie,  fi  dinfrici  of  K.  C,  to  IV.  IT.  Kcsihr,  Dr. 

For  services  rendered  as  dep'ty  coll.  of  Iho   G  district  of  N.  ('.,  during  the  iieriod 
commencing  Sept.  30,  1872,  and  ending  Dec.  31,  1872,  inclusive : 

Three  mouths,  at  the  rate  of  $1,500  per  annum |375 

days,  at  the  rate  of  $ per  day § 

Commissions  on collections,  at per  centum !| 

The  services  were  performed  in  the  counties  of  Iredell,  Alexander,  Rowan,  Wilkes, 
Yadkin,^Cabarrns,  Mecklenburg,  Davie,  Lincoln,  &  Gaston,  and  were  of  the  follow- 
ing character  :  Looking  after  illicit  distilling,  tobacco  wagons,  cV:  tobacco.    Travelling 
all  the  while  in  this  capacity. 
Received  payment. 

W.  H.  KESTLER, 

Vej/ti/  Coll. 

I,  W.  H.  Kestler,  dep'ty  coll.  for  J.  J.  i\lott,  collector  of  the  6  district  of  N.  C,  do 
solemnly  swear  that  I  have  faithfully  rendered  the  services  as  above  charged ;  that 
such  services  were,  in  my  oiiiniou,  proper  and  necessary ;  that  the  rate  of  compensa- 
tion therein  stated  is  the  same  as  agreed  upon  with  the  collector,  and  is  just  and  rea- 
sonable ;  that  I  have  not  paid,  deposited,  or  assigned,  or  contracted  to  pay,  deposit,  or 
assign  any  part  of  such  compensation  to  the  use  of  the  collector,  or  any  other  person, 
in  any  way,  directly  or  indirectly,  or  paid,  or  given,  or  contracted  to  jiay  or  give  any 
reward  or  compensation  for  my  office  or  employment,  or  the  emoluments  thereof. 

W.  H.  KESTLER, 

JJej/ly  Coll. 

Subscribed  and  sworn  before  me  this  10th  day  of  Jan'y,  lti73. 

J.  A.  CLARKE, 

JJejrty  Coll. 
Exhibit  8  is  as  follows : 

(631.) 
Prescribed  for  use  December  15,  1870. 
(OriginaL) 

DEPUTY  collectors'  AND  COLLECTORS'  CLERKS'  ACCOUNT  FOR  SERVICES. 

(To  accompany  Form  63,  rendered  to  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue  with  the 
quarterly  account  of  expenses  in  Form  91.) 

J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of  internal  revenue,  6  district  of  N.  C,  to  W.  H.  Kestler,  Dr. 

For  services  rendered  as  dep'ty  coll.  of  the  6  district  of  N.  C,  during  the  period 
commencing  Jan'y  1st,  1873,  and  ending  M'ch  31,  1873,  inclusive: 

Three  mouths,  at  the  rate  of  $1,500  per  annum $375  00 

days,  at  the  rate  of  $ per  day $ 

Commissions  on collections,  at per  centum $ — 

The  services  were  performed  in  the  counties  of  Iredell,  Alexander,  Rowan,  Wilkes 
Yadkin,  Cabarrus,  Mecklenburg,  Davie,  Lincoln,  &  Gaston,  and  were  of  the  following 
character :  Looking  after  illicit  distilling,  tobacco  wagons,  &  tobacco.  Travelling  all 
the  time  in  this  capacitj'. 

Received  payment. 

W.  H.  KESTLER,  DeiPtij  Coll. 


52  COLI.ECTIOX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    \ls 

I.  W.  H.  Kestlcr,  dejinty  coll.,  for  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of  the  6  district  of  N.  C,  do 
soleniuly  swear  that  1  have  faitlifully  rendered  the  services  as  ahove  charged  ;  that 
such  services  were,  in  my  opinion,  proper  and  necessary;  that  the  rate  of  compensa- 
tion therein  stated  is  the  same  as  agreed  upon  with  the  collector,  and  is  just  and  rea- 
sonable; that  I  have  not  paid,  deposited,  or  assigned,  or  contracted  to  pay,  deposit, 
or  assign  any  part  of  such  compensation  to  the  use  of  the  collector,  or  any  other  per- 
son, in  any  way,  directly  or  indirectly,  or  paid,  or  given,  or  contracted  to  pay  or  give, 
anv  reward  or  compensation  for  my  office  or  employment,  or  the  emoluments  thereof. 

»         '  W.  H.  KE8TLER,  T)ei)'ty  Coll. 

Subscribed  and  sworn  before  me  this  10  day  of  April,  1873. 

J.  A.  CLARKE,  JJci/tij  Coll. 

Q.  I  iiiid  another  voucber  here,  in  the  usnal  form,  Xo.  03.J  (reading) : 
"  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of  internal  revenue,  sixtli  district  of  North  Caro- 
lina, to  W.  H.  Kestler,  Dr.  For  services  rendered  as  deputy  of  the 
sixth  district  of  North  Carolina,  during  the  period  commencing  April  1, 
1873,  and  ending  June  30,  1873,  inclusive,  tbree  months,  at  the  rate  of 
$1,500  per  annum  (total)  $375,"  ])urporting  to  be  signed  by  "  W.  H.  Kest- 
ler, deputy  collector,"  and  to  have  been  sworn  to  before  "J.  A.  Clarke" 
on  the  "10th  day  of  July,  1873"? — A.  That  is  my  signature,  but  it  was 
never  sworn  to. 

Q.  That  is  your  signature,  but  you  did  not  swear  to  it? — A.  No,  sir; 
I  can  explain  how  that  was. 

Q.  You  say  you  did  not  render  this  service  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  AYe  offer  this  in  evidence  (marked  Exhibit  9,  as  fol- 
lows) : 

(63i.) 

Prescribed  for  use  December  15,  IriTO. 

(Original.) 

DEPUTY  collectors'  AND  COLLECTORS'  CLERKS'  ACCOUNT  FOR  SERVICES. 

(To  accompany  Form  63,  rendered  to  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue  with  the 
quarterly  account  of  expenses  ou  Form  91.) 

J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of  internal  revenue,  6  dintrict  of  N.  C,  to  W.  H.  Kestler,  Dr. 

For  services  rendered  as  dep'ty  of  the  6  district  of  N.  C.  during  the  period  com- 
mencing April  1,  1873,  and  ending  June  30,  1873,  inclusive  : 

Three  months,  at  the  rate  of  !3!l,50o  per  annum $375 

days,  at  the  rate  of  .$ per  day | 

Commissions  on collections,  at per  centum $ 

The  services  were  performed  in  the  counties  of  Union  and  Gaston  and  balance  of 
dist.,  aiul  were  of  the  following  character:  To  look  after  illicit  distilling,  manufac- 
ture and  sale  of  tobacco,  aud  th(JS(;  liable  to  special  tax. 

Received  ]>aviueiit, 

W.  H.  KESTLER,  Z>«'//(/ ro». 

I,  W.  H.  Kestler,  <I('i)'ty  for  J.  .J.  :\Iott,  (ud hector  of  tlie  f.  district  of  N.  C,  do  sol- 
emnly swear  tiiat  I  have  i'aitlifiilly  rendered  tliti  sia-vices as  above  cliarged  ;  that  such 
8ervi(;es  were,  in  my  <>|iinion,  proju'r  aud  iiecessary ;  that  the  rate  of  compinisation 
tluM'einstated  is  the  samc^  as  agret^l  upon  with  the  collector,  and  is  just  and  rc^ason 
able;  tiiat  I  liave  not  ]»ai(l,  (lei)()sit(Ml,  or  assigned,  or  contracted  to  pay,  de|)osit,  or 
aHsign,  any  jiart  of  hucIi  eomixMisation  to  the  ns(^  of  the  eolhu'tor,  or  any  other  person, 
in  an\  way,  directly  or  indirectly,  or  i)aiil,  or  given,  or  contracted  to  i)a,y  or  give,  any 
r(!\vard  <»r  foni]>ensat  ion  foi'  niv  office  lU'  emidovnient,  or  t  li(>  emoluments  tlier(H)f. 

\V.    II.   KESTLKR, 

i)<yi!/  coirr. 

iSubHcrilied  an<l  sworn  before  nic  this  Htlli  day  <>f  .(nIv,  l'^73. 

J.  A.  CLARKE, 

JJep'ti/  Coll. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA. 


53 


Q.  That  makes  three  quarters — uiiio  mouths — for  which  vouchers  are 
filed  in  your  name,  that  you  say  you  did  not  render  service  for '? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Two  of  tlicm  you  did  not  sign  ;  tlie  last  one,  just  read  to  you,  you 
signed  but  did  not  swear  to  t — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Yon  may  explain  now,  if  you  desire,  how  it  was  you  came  to  sign 
it  and  did  not  swear  to  it. — A.  Tiiere  was  a  blank  sent  me,  my  recol- 
lection is,  by  mail,  to  sign  for  the  services  that  I  had  rendered  for  the 
month.  I  signed  it  and  mailed  it.  It  was  blank  ;  and  some  time  after- 
ward there  was  anotlier  one  came — I  don't  recollect  now  whether  Mr. 
Clarke  had  it,  or  who — saying  that  it  had  been  misplaced  or  lost  by  some 
one,  and  I  signed  another  one  blaidi,  and  that  was  the  way  of  it. 

Q.  How  came  you  to  fill  it  np  for  $375,  or  did  you  do  it  ? — A.  I  signed 
it  in  blank;  there  was  nothing  on  it. 

Q.  A^o  part  of  that  is  in  vour  handwriting  except  your  name  ! — A. 
That  is  all. 

Q.  And  the  other  two,  although  just  like  that,  for  other  quarters,  uone 
of  them  are  in  your  handwriting,  not  even  the  signatures  ? — A.  Iso,  sir. 

Q.  You  know  nothing  about  those? — A.  Xot  at  all. 

Q.  This  last  one  came  by  mail  with  the  request  to  sign  it,  leaving  it 
to  be  filled  up  at  the  office'?— -A.  Yes,  sir;  for  the  month  I  was  in  the 
service.     I  signed  two  blanks. 

The  Chairman.  We  offer  in  evidence  the  abstract  of  vouchers  sworn 
to  and  filed  by  the  collector,  Dr.  Mott  (marked  Exhibit  10,  as  follows) : 

(G3.) 

Prescribed  for  use  December  15,  1870. 

(To  accompany  Form  91,  rendered  quarterly  to  the  Comraissioner  of  Interml  Revenue.) 

Abstract  of  vouchers  of  expenses  attending  the  administration  of  the  office  of  the  collector  of 
the  (ith  district  of  N.  C.  for  the  quarter  ending  JimeSOth,  1873. 


ti 

-s 

Name  of  deputy,   clerk,   or 
other  party  to  whom  pay- 
ments are  made. 

Amounts  paid. 

s 

a 

a 

c« 

o 

o 

O 
k 

O 

6 

3 

s 

o 
H 

o 
o 

'a 

.a 
o 

Remarks. 

1 

450  00 
200  00 
200  00 
300  00 
375  00 
250  00 
250  00 
175  00 

June  30 
"     30 

1,  800  00 
1,  200  00 
1,  800  00 
1,  800  00 
1,  500  00 
1,  500  00 
1,  500  00 
1,  500  00 
1,  800  00 
1,  200  00 

2 

Ma 

Apr 
Ma 

ylst  " 

20  " 

1st  " 

illst" 

ylst  " 

20  " 

Ganger. 

3 

J.  Q.  A.  Bryan 

4 

X.  W.  Lillington 

Ganger. 

5 

W.  H.  Kestler 

6 

W.  M.  Walker 

Gauo-er. 

7 

P.  E.  Martin ' 

8 

0.  H.  Perry    

9 

450  00  Apriillst" 
200  00    Ma'v  1st" 

10 

W.  W.  Mott  

11 

R.  F.  Simonton -   --    - 

60  00 

(In  lead  pencil: ).. .  ■ 
Total 

r2,  200  00 

650  00 

60  00 

2,  910  00 
1,  769  23 

.  1, 140  77 

2,  200  00 

650  00  I     60  00 

J.  J.  MOTT, 

Collector. 


54 


COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 


I,  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of  district  No.  6,  in  the  State  of  N.  C,  do  solemnly  swear 
that  the  foregoing  statement  is  in  all  respects  just  aud  true  according  to  my  best 
knowledge  aud  belief;  that  the  several  items  charged,  as  set  forth  in  detail  therein, 
are  at  the  reasonable  and  customary  prices  at  the  place  where  the  charges  were  in- 
curred; that  each  and  all  of  them  were  uecessarj^  for  the  proper  discharge  of  my  offi- 
cial duties;  that  I  have  not  received  or  retained,  and  am  not  entitled  to  receive  or 
retain,  for  the  benefit  of  myself  or  other  persous,  directly  or  indirectly,  any  portion 
of  the  sums  charged  or  d  sbursed;  and  that  the  disbursements  charged  were  made  in^ 
good  faith. 

J.  J.  MOTT,   Collector. 


Sworn  and  subscribed  before  nic  this  the  lUth  day  of  Julv,  1873. 

J.  A.  CLARKE, 


DepUy  Coll. 


The  Chairman.  And  in  that  abstract  of  vonchers  we  find  the  name 
of  W.  H.  Kestler  for  $315  paid  to  liiin  as  a  depnty.  And  then  we  offer 
in  evidence  an  amended  abstract  of  vonchers  for  the  same  period,  with 
the  same  oath  or  affirmation,  bnt  with  the  name  of  W.  H.  Kestler  left 
ont  entirely. 

Mr.  Pool.  Is  the  amended  voncher  in  the  same  langnage! 

The  Chairman.  The  affirmation  is  in  the  same  langnage. 

(Marked  Exhibit  11 ;  is  as  follows:) 

(33.     Amended. 

Prescribed  for  use  December  15, 1870. 

(To  .accompany  Form  91,  rendered  quarterly  to  tbe  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue.) 

Abstract  of  mucliers  of  expenses  attending  the  administration  of  the  office  of  the  collector  of 
the  6  district  of  X.  C.  for  the  quarter  ending  June  30,  1873. 


1 

Xarae  of  deputy,  clerk,  or  other  party 
to  whom  payments  are  made. 

Amounts  paid. 

a 

ft 

1 

5 
> 

o 

d 

IZi 

o  ■" 

o 

o 

o  a 

1 

t 

a 

1 

$332  97 
171  00 
171  00 

2 

J  C  Mcintosh  

3 

J  0  A.  Bryan  

4 

jf  W  Lillin<'ton    

5 

H  y  Mott  "    

332  97 
164  83 

6 

N  M.  Walker     

7 

P.  R.  Martin 

8 

J.  II.  Perry 

171  00 

9 

$375  00 
112  61 

10 

W.  W.  Mott                    

r  1,  343  77 
(In  lead  i.oucil) '^^'^  "^ 

1,  343  77 

487  61 

[    1,831  38 

J.  J.  MOTT,  OoUecior. 


I,  .1.  .1.  Mott,  collector  of  ilistrict  No.  G,  in  the  State  of  N.  C,  do  solemnly  swear  that 
tin-  foregoing  statement  is  in  ail  resjjects  just  and  true,  according  to  my  best  knowl- 
edge; anil  belief;  that  tlie  several  itcuiis  cliarged,  as  s^^t  forth  in  detitil  therein,  are  at 
tlie  reasonable  and  customary  pri(;es  at  tlie  i)lace  where  tlie  charges  wimc  incurred; 
that  r-aeh  and  all  of  them  were  necessary  for  the  pro])er  dis(;Iiiirge  of  my  oriicial  duties ; 
that  I  h;iv(;  not  receive,!!  or  retained,  and  am  not  eiititleil  to  I'eceive  or  retiiin,  for  the 
ItentWit  of  iriyself  or  otinr  jiersoiis,  direetly  ui-  indirectly,  any  i)ortiou  of  the  sums 
charged  or  disbursed  ;  ;ind  th;il  llie  (liNhinsiinenls  charged  w(5i'e  made  in  good  faith. 

J.  .J.  MOT']',  Collcclor. 


.Sworn 


d    hrlul'. 


'Jlsl 


day  of  Sept.,  Irt71. 

■  W.  Y.  IJAILEV,  Drpt'i/  ColVr. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  55 

Q.  I  understood  you  to  say  at  tliu  ojxMiiuf;'  that  you  only  received  $05 
for  that  part  of  a  mouth  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  J)r.  Mott,  3[r.  Chirk,  or  those  iu  (^liari^i;  of  the  oflice,  know 
that  you  had  rendered  no  service  during-  these  tliree  inontlis  for  whicli 
there  is  a  charj;e  made? — A.  Tliev  ouglit  to  know  it;  I  can't  sav  as  to 
that. 

Q.  You  were  not  about  the  oftice? — A.  Ko,  sir. 

Q.  You  received  no  orders  from  them,  nor  anytliing;  of  tliat  kind? — 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  were  at  home  and  doing-  no  service? — A.  Tlie  way  that  was, 
is  this:  When  I  was  there  I  had  a  child  taken  sick.  I  went  to  ]>r.  Mott 
and  told  him  I  would  like  to  go  home;  he  told  me  all  right,  and  I  asked 
him  for  a  little  money;  he  gave  me  a  check  for  tifteen  dollars;  I  went 
home.  At  least  he  told  me  to  stay  there  until  further  orders  to  assign 
me,  or  something  of  that  sort,  and  I  went  home  and  staid  the  balance 
of  the  month  out.  Sometime  afterwards  I  wanted  some  money,  and  I 
sat  down  and  wrote  to  him  about  it.  After  writing  two  or  three  letters 
he  sent  me  a  ])ost-oftice  order  for  fifty  dollars. 

Q.  Was  that  all  that  ever  passed  between  you  after  you  left  ? — A.  Xo, 
sir ;  we  had  several  conversations  about  that  afterwards. 

Q.  State  any  circumstances  that  indicated  he  knew  you  were  not 
doing  work. — A.  From  what  he  told  me  I  know  it. 

Q.  Y"ou  never  claimed  anything  more,  did  you? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Did  he  ever  offer  to  pay  you  anything  more  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Did  he  ever  ask  you  wliy  yon  never  called  for  more  pay  ? — A.  Xo, 
sir.     He  came  to  see  me  about  it  once  or  twice. 

Q.  It  seems  that  the  true  voucher  for  $65  is  subsequent  to  the  others. 
When  did  he  get  that  voucher  from  you? — A.  Do  you  mean  the  first 
one? 

Q.  Yes,  the  correct  voucher  for  $05,  which  seesns  of  a  later  date  than 
the  other  vouchers? — A.  Since  the  other  ones? 

Q.  That  true  voucher  is  approved  iu  September,  1874;  the  others  are 
January,  1873,  April,  1873,  and  July,  1873  ? — A.  What  is  the  date  of  that 
first  voucher — the  one  I  signed? 

Q.  For  .$05  ?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  is  sworn  to  the  11th  of  September,  '71.  It  seems  that  these 
others  are  dated  prior  to  that,  and  this  is  dated  subse(iueutly  ? — A.  I 
don't  know  how  that  is.  I  have  got  a  memorandum  of  the  time  I  re- 
ceived the  ])Ost-office  order. 

Q.  When  was  that?— A.  (Looking).  That  was  October  30,  1872. 

Q.  That  closed  up  your  payments '? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  the  genuine  voucher  was  really  paid  you,  but  was  not  called 
for  till  '74? — A.  It  was  sometime  after  I  got  the  money. 

Cross-examination  by  Mr.  Pool: 

Q.  Were  you  ev^er  i^aid  anything  more  than  the  $05  ? — A.  That  was 
all  I  ever  received. 

Q.  You  did  service  for  that  $05? — A.  Xo,  sir;  I  never  did  any  service 
at  all. 

Q.  Xot  for  the  $65  ?— A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Xot  for  the  three  weeks  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Were  you  an  otficer  at  the  time  covered  by  the  $05  ? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
Dr.  Mott  told  me  to  go  home,  and  he  would  assign  me  to  duty;  bat  I 
never  got  any  orders. 

Q.  What  was  the  position  you  held  then? — A.  Deputy  collector. 

Q.  You  reside  at  Salisbury  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


56  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  And  remained  deputy  collector  only  tliree  weeks  ? — A.  It  was  a 
month,  I  tliouglit.     I  might  have  been  Diistaken. 

Q.  AVere  you  an  officer  at  the  time  of  these  otlier  voucliers  spoken  of — 
January,  Aiiril,  and  Julj^,  1873? — A.  No,  sir;  not  to  iny  knowledge. 

Q.  You  were  not  appointed  to  any  position  at  all  at  that  time  ? — A. 
No,  sir. 

Q.  How  were  the  deputies  then  appointed  ? — A.  Dr.  Mott  gave  me 
the  appointment. 

Q.  How  did  you  come  to  be  appointed  ? — A.  Through  the  solicitation 
of  some  of  my  friends,  who  asked  Dr.  Mott  to  give  me  an  appointment. 

Q.  That  was  in  1873,  was  it  ? — A.  I  think  it  was  along  thereabouts. 

Q.  About  what  time  in  1873  ? — A.  I  can't  remember — can't  recollects 

Q.  Did  he  give  you  an  appointment? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  told  you  to  go  home  until  he  assigned  you  to  duty  ? — A.  Y'es, 
sir. 

Q.  How  long  did  you  stay  in  Statesville  '? — A.  I  think,  the  best  of  my 
recollection,  I  was  there  about  a  week  or  ten  days. 

Q.  And  then  you  were  sent  back  to  Salisbury! — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  was 
not  sent  back,  I  went  back. 

Q.  And  the  voucher  was  i)nt  in  then  for  three  weeks  ? — A.  I  signed 
it  in  blank;   1  don't  know  what  it  was  for. 

Q.  Then  this  other  matter  occurred  in  '73,  and  you  signed  in  July^ 
'73,  a  voucher  that  w^as  sent  to  you  by  mail  ? — A.  That  is  my  recollec- 
tion. 

Q.  Y"ou  say  you  were  not  an  officer  at  that  time  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  How  came  you  to  sign  a  voucher  for  pay  when  not  an  officer  ? — 
A.  Simply  because  they  told  me  the  other  voucher  had  been  lost  or 
misplaced. 

Q.  Which  other  one  do  you  mean  ? — A.  I  had  signed  another  one 
before  that. 

Q.  For  the  sum  of  $375  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  I  never  signed  one  for  $375. 

Q.  You  signed  it  in  blank  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  signed  it  in  blank. 

Q.  Shortly  after  you  signed  one,  you  signed  another  to  take  the  place 
of  it  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  came  you  to  sign  either  of  these,  when  yon  were  not  an  offi- 
cer!— A.  They  told  me  I  was  i^aid,  and  for  that  reason  I  got  the  money 
before  I  sent  anything.  The  money  was  i)aid  to  me,  and  afterwards  I 
signed  these  blanks. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  these  vouchers,  signed  in  blank,  in  that  way, 
were  ever  allowed  to  Dr.  Mott? — A.  I  do  not. 

(^.  Do  you  know  how  these  vouchers  came  to  be  made  out? — A.  No, 
sir. 

Jiy  Senator  McDill  : 

Q,  Do  you  know  about  the  time  you  were  in  the  service,  and  these 
vouch(*rs  were  sent  to  you,  that  there  had  been  a  change  in  the  revenue 
law,  abolisliing  tln>  oliic,.'  of  assessor? — A.  xVt  the  time  I  had  this  a[)- 
jioinl mcnt  '. 

(}.  Vcs. — A,  Yes,  sir;  the  assessor  had  been — 1  don't  think  he  had 
been,  bccans*^  tln^  assesscn' was  the  genlh'man  whose  intlnencc  got  me 
the  |)lac(' — I  don't  think  he  had  been  dischaigcil. 

(}.  Shortly  alter  t  liaf  t  lie  law  was  changed,  and  so  the  ollice  of  assessor 
was  ;dK»lislied  ? — A.  ^'es,  sir;  I  eould  not  swear  positiNciy  whether 
abolislierl  oi'  not — don't  think  it  was. 

(,).    N'oii  know  it  was  soon  after? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

<^).   And  Unit   alter  the  abolition  of  the  office  of  assessor  the  dnty  of 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  57 

collecting  the  revenue  devolved  entirely  upon  the  collector  iiud  his  de- 
puties or  employes,  did  it  not? — A.  J  presume  so.  It  is  a  matter  I 
know'very  little  about.     That  is  my  information. 

(}.  Did  any  one  tell  you  tliat  these  vouchers  yon  signed  were  for  the 
jiurpose  of  making  up  iui  estimate  showing  what  it  would  cost  to  run 
the  district,  or  anything  of  tiiat  kind? — A.  No,  sir;  1  can  exphiin  to 
yon  how  it  \vas  told  to  me  by  Mr.  Clarke,  who  was  in  the  service,  and 
Dr.  Mott  also. 

Q.  Mr.  Clarke  talked  with  you  about  the  matter? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  that  was  the  way  yon  were  induced  to  sign  one  of  the  larger 
vouchers  ? — A.  I  never  signed  them  at  all. 

Q.  Yoit  had  no  knowledge  of  their  making  up  any  estimate,  or  any- 
thing of  that  kind,  as  to  the  expenses? — A.  No,  sir;  none  at  all. 

J.  A.  Hams  AY  sworn  and  examined. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Question.  Where  is  your  present  residence  ? — Answer.  Salisburj',. 
North  Carolina. 

Q.  Were  you  at  one  time  in  the  employ  of  the  sixth  collection  district 
of  North  Carolina  ? — A.  I  was. 

Q.  How  long? — A.  Nearly  two  years. 

Q.  From  when  to  when? — A.  From  about  the  1st  of  March,  1872,  to- 
the  IStli  of  February,  1874. 

Q.  What  compensation  were  yon  to  receive  ? — A.  Mr.  Henry  Cowles 
came  to  Salisbury  before  the  1st  of  March,  purporting  to  be  the  repre- 
sentative of  Dr.  Mott,  and  stated  that  I  would  receive  the  salary  of 
$100  per  month  or  $1200  per  annum.  I  made  no  contract  with  Dr. 
Mott  at  all.  There  was  nothing  said  about  it.  That  was  the  way  we 
started  it. 

Q.  How  long  were  you  running  that  way  ? — A.  About  two  months. 

Q.  Two  mouths  at  a  salary  of  $100  per  month? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Then  what  took  place?— A.  On  or  about  the  27th  of  April,  1872^ 
I  don't  recollect  precisely  the  date  now,  I  was  assigned  to  a  larger  ter- 
ritory, and  the  salary  was  increased. 

Q.'  To  how  much? — A.  At  the  rate  of  $150  per  month. 

Q.  Did  you  receive  it? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Why  did  you  not? — A.  In  the  settlement  they  wanted  to  make, 
they  wanted  to  put  the  salary  at  $100  per  month. 

Q.  Is  that  your  haudwriting  to  that  voucher  ?  ( Voucher  shown  to  wit- 
ness.)— A.  It  is,  John  A.  Kamsay. 

Q.  I  find  three  vouchers  here;  one  commencing  September 30,  for  the 
last  quarter  of  1872. — A.  That  is  my  signature. 

Q.  That  voucher  is  for  $150  ?— A.  About  $300  of  it  has  been  received. 

Q.  You  received  only  $300  of  it? — A.  That  is  all ;  so  I  claim  the  ba- 
lance. 

The  Chairman.  AYe  offer  in  evidence  these  vouchers.  They  are  the 
originals  from  the  department,  which  we  will  have  copied  by  the  steno- 
grapher. The  original  voucher  of  J.  A.  Ramsay  for  $150  (marked 
Exhibit  12) ;  the  amended  abstract  of  vouchers  of  Dr.  Mott,  fixing  the 
salary  of  J.  A.  Eamsay  at  $300  (marked  Exhibit  13);  and  the  account 
voucher  made  out  for  $150,  with  the  approval  of  the  collector  that  it  is 
a  just  and  true  charge,  for  the  last  quarter  of  1872  (marked  Exhibit  11.) 


bS 


COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 


Exhibit  12  is  as  follows: 

(63^) 

(Original.) 

DEPUTY  collectors'  AND   COLLECTOR'S   CLERKS'  ACCOUNT  FOR  SEVRICES. 

J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of  internal  revenue,  6th  district  of  X.  C,  to  J.  A.  Ramsay,  dr. 

Eor  services  rendered  as  dep'ty  coll.  of  the  6tli  district  of  N.  C,  during  the  period 
fominencing  Sept.  30,  1872,  and  ending  Dec.  31st;  1872,  inclusive : 

Three  months,  at  the  rate  of  |1,800  per  annum S450 

days,  at  tlie  rate  of  $ per  day $ 

Commissions  on collections,  at   per  centum $ 

The  services  were  performed  at  Salisbury,  Rowan  Co.;  Charlotte,  Mecklenburg  Co.; 
Liucolnton,  Lincoln  Co.;  Newton,  Columbia  Co.;  Gaston  Co.,  and  Cabarrus  Co.,  and 
were  of  the  following  character:  Collecting  on  list. 
Received  payment. 

JOHN  A.  RAMSAY, 

JJept.  Coll. 

I,  J.  A.  Ramsay,  dep'ty  coll.  for  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of  the  6  district  of  N.  C,  do  sol- 
emnly swear  that  I  have  faithfully  rendered  the  services  as  above  charged  ;  that  such 
services  were,  in  my  opinion,  proper  and  necessary ;  that  the  rate  of  compensation 
therein  stated  is  the  same  as  agreed  upon  with  the  collector,  and  is  just  and  reason- 
able ;  that  I  have  not  paid,  deposited,  or  assigned,  or  contracted  to  i^ay,  deposit,  or 
assign,  any  jiart  of  such  compensation  to  the  use  of  the  collector,  or  any  other  person, 
in  any  way,  directly  or  indirectly,  or  paid,  or  given,  or  contracted  to  pay  or  give, 
anv  reward  or  compensation  for  my  office  or  employment,  or  the  emoluments  thereof. 

JOHN  A.  RAMSAY, 

Dejjt.  Coll. 
Subscribed  and  sworn  before  mc  this  10th  day  of  Jan'y,  1873. 

J.  A.  CLARKE, 

IJei)'tii  Coll. 
Exhibit  13  is  as  follows : 

(63.) — Amended. 

Abstract  of  vouchers  of  expenses  attending  the  administration  of  the  office  of  the  collector  of 
the  sixth  district  of  N.  C,  for  the  quarter  ending  Dec.  31,  1872. 


^ 

Amounts  paid. 

s 

3 

a 
a 

p 

o 
o 

JJ"anie  of  (Icpiity,  ckrk,  or  otliL-r  party 
to  whom  pa.^  iiieuts  are  made. 

3 

3 

o 
H 

c  a 

"3 
o 

S 

if 

i 

1 

J.  A  Kamsay 

W.  P.  Drake 

300  00 

300  00 

65  00 

235  00 

'> 

3 

"W.  IT.  Kestler 

4 

W.  M.  Walker 

J.  A.  Clarke 

375  00 

60  00 

fi 

R.  r.  Siiiionton 

12  00 

7 

Lee  .lain.s 

Deimiri  Moore 

3  00 

91)0 

375 

60 

12 

3 

1,350 

J.  J.  MOTT,  Collector. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA. 


59 


the  sums  cliargedor  disbursed,  and  that  tlie  disburseniLiitscliaiyed  were  uuuU:  in  good 
faith., 

J.  J.  MOTT, 

Colledor. 
Sworn  and  subscribed  before;  nio  tins  the  '^Ist  day  of  Se))t.,  1874. 

W.  Y.  BAILEY, 

Dciitij  CoU'r. 
Exiiiiiir  11. 

Abulract  of  roitchers  of  expenses  attendinj/  the  cuhnuiinlration  of  the  office  of  the  collector  of 
tlte  t)</i  district  of  i\^.  C.  for  the  quarter  ciidimj  Dec.  31,  lH7'-i. 


o    I  Xauio  of  deputy,  clerk,  or  otlipr  party 
^  to  whom  piiyiueuts  are  niado. 


J.  A.  Ramsay  . . 
W.  P.  Drake  ... 
W.  II.  Kestler. . 

J.  A.  Clarke 

R.  F.  Simonton. 

Lee  James 

Dennis  Moore  . 


Total 


(lu  lead  pencil). 


( 1,  275  00 
I  450  00 
60  00 
\  12  00 
I  3  00 

[  1,  800  00 


Amounts  paid. 


450  00 
450  00 
375  00 


1,  275  00 


o 


60  00 


J.  J.  MOTT,  Ool    lector. 

I,  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of  district  No.  6,  in  the  State  of  N.  C,  do  solemuly  swear  that 
the  foregoing  statement  is  in  all  resi)ect8  just  and  true,  according  to  my  best  knowl- 
edge and  belief;  that  the  several  items  charged,  as  set  forth  iu  detail  therein,  are  at 
the  reasonable  and  customary  prices  at  the  jilace  where  the  charges  were  incurred ; 
that  each  and  all  of  them  were  necessary  for  the  proper  discharge  of  my  offici;il  du- 
ties;  that  I  have  not  received  or  retained,  and  afti  not  entitled  to  receive  or  retain, 
for  the  benefit  of  myself  or  other  persons,  directly  or  indirectly,  any  portion  of  the 
sums  charged  or  disbursed;  and  that  the  disbursements  charged  were  made  iu  good 
faith. 

J.  J.  MOTT,   Collector. 

Sworn  and  subscribed  before  me  this  the  11th  day  of  Jan'y,  1873. 

J.  A. 'CLARKE,  Depfy  Coll. 

Q.  Is  that  your  liaud writing"  to  that  vouclier  account  ?  (Showing 
paper  to  witness.) 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  We  ofier  in  evidence  a  vouclier  in  the  usual  form 
for  the  time  commencing  January  1,  1873,  and  ending  March  31, 
1873,  at  the  rate  of  81,800  per  annum;  total,  $150;  sworn  to  and  ap- 
proved in  the  usual  form  (marked  Exhibit  15),  with  the  original  abstract 
of  vouchers  by  Collector  Mott  aflirming  it  is  just  and  true,  and  so  on 
(marked  Exhibit  1(5).  And  the  amended  abstract  of  vouchers  of  Dr. 
Mott  fixing  the  salary  at  $300  instead  of  $150  (marked  Exhibit  17). 
The  "original"  sworn  to  on  the  10th  of  April,  1873,  by  Dr.  Mott,  and  the 
^^  amended  "  sworn  to  on  the  21st  September,  1874,  by  Dr.  Mott. 

The  Witness.  My  signature  is  no  where  on  that  amended  one,  be- 
cause I  signed  none. 

The  Chairman.  For  that  amended  voucher  there  is  no  account  filed 
by  the  person  who  did  the  service,  the  witness,  Mr.  Ramsay ;  at  least  not 
sent  to  me. 


GO 


COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 


Exhibit  15. 

(63i.) 
(Original.) 

DEPUTY  COLLECTORS'  AXD  COLLECTOR'S  CLERK'S  ACCOUXT  FOR  SERVICES, 

J.  J.  Motf,  collector  of  inter)ial  revenue,  6  district  of  X,  C,  to  J.  A.  Eamsai/,  Dr. 

For  services  rendered,  as  depty  coll.  of  the  Gdistrict  of  N.  C,  during  the  period  com 
mencing  Jan'y  1st,  1873,  and  ending  M'ch  31st,  1873,  inclusive  : 

Three  months,  at  the  rate  of  $1,800  per  annum $450 

days,  at  the  rate  of  $ per  day | 

Commissions  on collections,  at per  centum $ 

The  services  vrere  performed  at  Salisbury,  Rowan  Co.;  Charlotte,  Mecklenburg  Co.; 
Lincolntou,  Lincoln  Co.;  Newton,  Catawba,  Co.;  Dallas,  Gaston  Co.,  and  Cabarrus  Co., 
and  were  of  the  following  character:  Collecting  on  list. 

Received  payment. 

JOHN  A.  RAMSAY,  Dept.  Coll. 

I,  J.  A.  Ramsey,  dep'ty  coll.  for  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of  the  6  district  of  N.  C,  do 
solemnly  swear  that  I  have  faithfully  rendered  the  services  as  above  charged ;  that 
such  services  were,  in  my  opinion,  proper  aud  necessary;  that  the  rate  of  compensa- 
tion therein  stated  is  the  same  as  agreed  upon  with  the  collector,  and  is  just  and 
reasonable ;  that  I  have  not  paid,  deposited,  or  assigned,  or  contracted  to  pay,  de- 
posit, or  assign  any  part  of  such  compensation  to  the  use  of  the  collector,  or  any  other 
person,  ia  any  way,  directly  or  indirectly,  or  paid,  or  given,  or  contracted  to  pay  or 
give  any  reward  or  compensation  for  my  office  or  employmjurt  or  the  emoluments 
.  thereof. 

JOHN  A.  RAMSAY,  Dept.  Coll. 

Subscribed  aud  sworn  before  me  this  10th  da.y  of  April,  1873. 

J.  A.  CLARKE,  DepVij  :oU. 

Exhibit  1(). 

(63.) 

(Original.) 

AhutrKct  of  vouchers  of  expenses  aitendiiig  the  adm'uiistrntion  of  the  office  of  the  collector  of 
the  sixth  district  of  Xo.  Ca.  for  the  quarter  ending  Marcli  31,  lc73. 


Amounts  paid. 


Xanio  of  (li'])iity,  clerk,  or  other  party 
to  wlioiii  payments  aro  made. 


.T.  A.  KaiiiHay... 
W.  1*.  Drak...... 

W.  jr.  KcHll.r.. 
J.  A.  Clark.).... 

K.  I'".  Siiiionton. 

L(;i!  Jami-H 

DeouiM  Moore. . . 


Total. 


(Ill  lead  iMiicil). 


450  00 
450  00 
375  00 


f   1,  275  00 

450  00 

00  00 

U  00 

:i  00 


1,  275  00 


1,797  00 


GO  00 


.1.  .;.  MOTT,   Collector. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRIC'l"    OF    NOK'TH    CAROLINA. 


61 


I.  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  ol"  district  Xo.  sixth,  in  the  State  of  N.  C,  do  solemnly  swear 
that  the  foieyoiiiy  statement  is  in  all  resi)ects  just  and  true,  aeeorduiji  to  my  best 
knowledge  and  l)eliet';  that  the  several  items  ehai'ged,  as  set  forth  in  detail  therein; 
ure  at  the  n-asonable  and  cnstomary  i)riees  at  the  nlace  where  the  charg(^s  were  in- 
curred; that  each  and  all  of  them  were  ncHjessary  for  the  ])roi)er  discharge  of  my 
oflicial  duties;  that  I  have  not  received  or  retained,  and  am  not  entitled  to  receive  or 
retain,  for  the  benetit  of  myself  or  othtir  persons,  directly  or  indirectly,  any  portion  of 
the  snms  charged  or  disbursed ;  and  that  the  disbursenniuts  charged  were  made  in 
good  faith. 

J.  J.  MOTT,  CoJIcdor. 

Sworn  and  subscribed  before  me  this  the  lOtli  day  of  Ajiril,  1873. 

.1.  A.  CLARKE,  Dej/ty  CoU. 

Exhibit  17. 

(G3.)     Amended. 

Ab>itracl of  vouchers  of  expenses  attending  the  administration  of  the  ojfice  of  the  coUrdor  of 
the  sixth  district  of  N.  C.  for  the  quarter  ending  March,  187:5. 


Name  of  deputy,  clerk,  or  other  party 
to  wliom  payments  are  made. 

Amounts  paid. 

a 

g 

5 

U 

a 

> 
o 
6 

p.  . 

i 

"3 
o 
H 

=2 
1 

3 
s 

5 
S 

1 

300  00 
800  00 
300  00 

'.. 

? 

W.  P.  Drake 

:^ 

W.  M.  Walker 

J.  A.Clarke 

4 

375  00 

"" 

60  00 

f) 

9  00 

Dennis  Moore 1 

3  00 

Total 

1 

900  00 

375  00 

60  00 

9  00 

3  00 

J.  J.  MOTT,  Collector. 


I,  J.  .J.  Mott,  collector  of  district  No.  6,  in  the  State  of  No.  Ca.,  do  solemnly  swear 
that  the  foregoing  statement  is  in  all  respects  just  and  true,  according  to  my  best 
knowledge  and  belief;  that  the  several  items  charged,  as  set  forth  in  detail  therein, 
are  at  the  reasonable  and  cnstomary  prices  at  the  place  wliere  the  charges  were  in- 
curred ;  that  each  and  all  of  them  were  necessary  for  the  proper  discharge  of  my  ofti- 
cial  duties  ;  that  I  have  not  received  or  retained,  and  am  not  entitled  to  receive  or 
retain,  for  the  benefit  of  myself  or  other  persons,  directly  or  indirectly,  any  portion 
of  the  sums  charged  or  disbursed,  and  that  the  disbursements  charged  were  made  in 
good  faith. 

J.  J.  MOTT,   Collector. 

Sworn  and  subscribed  before  me  this  the  '21st  day  of  Sept.,  1874. 

W.  Y.  BAILEY,  Ijyty  CoIVr. 

The  CiiAiiiMAN.  Then  we  offer  in  evidence  a  voucher  in  the  same  form 
for  the  period  commencing-  April  1,  1873,  and  ending  June  30,  1873,  for 
$450.  This  is  the  second  quarter,  in  tlie  usual  form  verified  (marked 
Exhibit  18)  witli  the  original  abstract  of  vouchers.  Dr.  Mott  swearing 
to  its  correctness  on  the  10th  of  July,  1873.  (See  Exhibit  10.)  And  the 
amended  abstract  of  vouchers  sworn  to  by  Dr.  Mott  on  the  21st  of  Sep- 
tember, 1874.     (See  Exhibit  11.) 

(Paper  shown  to  witness.) 

The  Witness.  For  the  month  of  April  I  do  not  claim  the  $50.  For 
May  and  June  I  do.  That  was  prior  to  the  agreement  between  the  col- 
lector and  myself. 

Q.  So  this  voucher  for  the  second  quarter  of  1873  is  too  much  by  $50, 
for  the  reason  you  give  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


62  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Exhibit  18. 

(g:H.) 

Original. 

deupty  collectors'  axd  collector's  clerks'  account  for  services. 

J.  J.  Molt,  collector  of  internal  revenue  6  district  of  X.  C,  to  J.  A.  7?a»i-srti/,  Dr. 

For  services  rendered  as  deputy  of  the  G  district  of  N.  C,  during  the  period  com- 
menciug  April  1st,  1873,  and  ending  June  30,  1873,  inclusive. 

Three  months,  at  the  rate  of  $1,800  per  annum $450  00 

days,  at  the  rate  of  $ per  day $ 

Commissions  on collections,  at per  centum $ 

The  services  were  performed  at  Statesville,  Charlotte,  Concord,  Salisburj',  Lincoln- 
ton,  and  Dallas,  and  were  of  the  following  character:  Collecting  on  list,  and  taking: 
return  of  distillers,  manufacturers  of  tobacco  &  cigars,  brewers,  &c. 

Received  payment. 

JOHN  A.  RAMSAY,  Dept.  Coll. 

I,  J.  A.  Ramsay,  dep'ty  for  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of  the  6  district  of  N.  C,  do  sol- 
emnly swear  that  I  have  faithfully  rendered  the  services  as  above  charged ;  that  such 
services  were,  in  my  opinion,  proper  and  necessary  ;  that  the  rate  of  compensation 
therein  stated  is  the  same  as  agreed  upon  with  the  collector,  and  is  just  and  reason- 
able ;  that  I  have  not  paid,  deposited,  or  assigned,  or  contracted  to  pay,  deposit,  or 
assign  any  part  of  such  compensation  to  the  use  of  the  collector,  or  iniy  other  person 
in  any  way,  directly  or  indirectly,  or  paid,  or  given,  or  contracted  to  pay  or  give  any 
reward  or  compensation  for  mv  office  or  employment,  or  the  emoluments  thereof. 

JOHN  A.  RAMSAY,  Dept.  Coll. 

Subscribed  and  sworn  before  me  this  10th  day  of  Julv,  1873. 

J.  A.  CLARKE,  DepHy  Coll. 

Q.  AVill  you  state  whether  you  were  ever  asked  to  sign  aiiy  other 
vouchers? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Wheu? — A.  Some  time  iu '74;  I  dou't  recollect.  Well,  there  were 
several  applications.  Mr.  Clark  came  down  tirst,  some  time,  I  think, 
about  the  latter  part  of  February,  1874,  and  asked  me  to  sign  different 
Aouchers. 

Q.  Different  from  those  already  signed  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  He  said  there 
was  something  wrong  about  it.  I  declined  to  do  it.  I  told  him  I  had 
signed  one  set.  Then  Dr.  Mott  himself  came  down  and  insisted  upon 
my  signing  another  set.  I  declined.  Then  Mr.  John  M.  Horah  came 
down  and  insisted  u[)on  me  signing  another  set.  1  declined  to  sign  the 
icgnlar  i)rint<'d  form.  1  told  him  I  would  sign  after  consultation  with 
the  attorneys,  and  state  what  L  had  received,  reserving  all  rights  of 
action  to  recover  the  bahince  (1ik\ 

().  When  was  tliat? — A.  Tliat  was  doiu' some  time  in '74.  I  can't  rec- 
olh'ct  the  dates  i)ositively. 

ii.  There  is  some  testimony  here  taken  out  of  Keferee  Henderson's 
report;  perliii]»s  it  will  refresh  your  mcMnory  as  to  dates. — A.  1  had  the 
])apers  Ity  me  when  that  was  given. 

(^.  in  this  t«'.sfimony  wliich  you  gave  before  Keferee  Henderson,  in 
tlie  suit  befwe(;n  ('olleetoi  .Molt  and  yourself,  you  say  this  was  in  the 
spring  of  1.S7  1.  Now,  witii  that  reminch'r,  <lo  yon  think  that  is  riglit? — 
A.   Iloiah  came  to  me  in  the  spring  of '74. 

(}.  Ves;  wiien  they  tried  to  get  you  to  sign  other  voneinn-s. — A.  Dr. 
Mott  came  to  me  some  time  in  the  s[)ring;  Mr.  Ilorah  sometime,  I  think^ 
in  the  siminier. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  63 

Q.  AVliat  I  want  to  fix,  INfr.  Kainsay,  if  it  be  true,  tliat  you  declined 
to  si^u'Ti  these  vouchers  as  presented  to  you,  and  claimed  that  your  pay 
was  to  be  $150  a  month. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  intimated  that  you  would  bring  suit  for  the  balance,  if 
not  paid  to  you,  but  you  were  ready  to  give  special  receipts  for  what 
you  had  actually  received,  reserving  to  yourself  any  rights  you  might 
have  at  law? — A.  Exactly.  I  had  alread}'^  counseled  with  an  attorney 
before  that  in  regard  to  bringing  a  suit  for  it. 

Q.  What  I  want  to  show  is,  that  Dr.  ]\Iott  understood  that. — A.  There 
is  something  with  reference  to  that  matter  there  (indicating  referee's 
report).     You  will  see  the  statement  of  the  attorney,  ]\[r.  IJhickmar. 

Q.  1  want  to  know  if  they  understood  from  your  language  that  they 
would  have  a  lawsuit  before  this  thing  would  be  settled  as  they  wanted 
it  to  be? — A.  Yes,  sir.  I  had  taken  counsel  for  the  purpose  of  bringing 
a  lawsuit. 

Q.  And  that  amended  voucher  appears  to  have  been  made  in  Sep- 
tember, 1874,  after  tliis  tinie  they  tried  to  get  you  to  settle? — A.  I  know 
nothing  about  that  amended  voucher,  only  from  rumor.    I  never  saw  it. 

Cross-examination  by  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q  You  Avere  in  the  revenue  service  from  March,  1872,  to  February^ 
1874 — two  years? — A.  Nearly  two  years. 

Q.  Your  first  agreement  was  that  your  salary  was  to  be  $100  a 
mouth? — A.  That  was  what  Mr.  Cowles  said.  I  had  no  arrangement 
with  Dr.  Mott  about  it. 

Q.  Did  you  receive  that?— A.  The  $100  a  month? 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  I  did. 

Q.  You  had  been  in  the  revenue  service  previous  to  that? — A.  Yes,, 
sir. 

Q.  Under  the  former  collector,  Wylie? — A.  Yes,  sir.  AVith  the  excep- 
tion of  the  last  quarter  I  got  $100  per  month.  For  the  last  quarter  that 
I  was  in,  or  part  of  it — my  duties  were  considerably  enlarged — he  told 
me  I  should  have  all  the  surplus;  he  would  take  my  receipts  for  $150 
per  mouth. 

Q,  Tliat  was  Mr.  Wylie  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  W^hatever  balance  there  was^ 
I  was  to  get  it. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  What  does  that  mean,  "balance"? — A.  Ofthe  appropriation  allowed 
him. 

Q.  If  he  could  save  anything  over,  you  would  be  allowed  $150  a  month  ? 
— A.  Mr.  Beard,  one  of  his  deputies,  retired,  which  made  me  work  harder. 
He  told  me  I  should  have  ^100  certain,  if  he  had  to  i)ay  it  himself,  but 
if  the  balance  should  run  to  $150,  I  should  have  that. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  That  was  under  Mr.  Wylie? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  When  under  Dr.  Mott  $100  a  month  was  paid  to  you  ? — A.  Yes^ 
sir;  paid  by  check. 

Q.  Afterwards  you  understood  or  claiined  it  was  increased  to  $150  a 
month? — A.  Dr.  Mott  himself  made  the  agreement,  in  the  old  collector's 
office,  up  in  the  corner  of  what  is  known  as  the  Miller  House. 

Q.  And  Dr.  Mott  did  send  on  for  you  vouchers  for  that  amount,  $150? 
— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  they  were  disallowed  for  that  amount  by  the  depart- 
ment?— A.  That  don't  have  any  reference  to  it.  Xothing  was  said  about 
that. 


64  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    EEVENUE    IN 

Q.  I  am  not  speaking  with  any  application  to  Dr.  Mott. — A.  It  was 
so  nnderstood,  that  they  were  disaHowed. 

Q.  And  you  were  not  allowed  but  $100? — A.  What  I  understood.  I 
got  that  from  Mr.  Ilorah.  Mv.  Horah  told  me  thej'  would  not  allow- 
but  til  at  8100  to  be  paid. 

Q.  Then  Dr.  Mott  made  an  amended  voucher  for  what  they  were 
willing-  to  pay — the  $100? — A.  Yes;  and  wanted  me  to  receipt  for  it. 

Q.  You  would  not  receipt  for  it"? — A.  No,  sir;  because  the  contract 
was  for  more. 

Q.  Had  you  not  been  paid  that  $100?— A.  That  $100  was  paid  pre- 
vious to  this  controversy. 

Q.  You  have  been  paid  the  $100  allowed  you  in  these  vouchers! — A. 
Y'es,  sir.  I  knew  the  collectors  had  a  right  to  make  their  own  contracts 
with  the  deputies.  They  were  allowed  so  much  to  run  the  district,  and 
then  make  their  own  contracts. 

Q.  Your  claim  was  that  Dr.  Mott  should  pay  you  $150,  whether  he 
was  allowed  it  or  not  ? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  it  was  a  contract  between  him  and 
myself.  I  did  the  work  of  two  deputies.  The  agreement  was  in  this 
wise,  and  brought  about  in  this  manner:  He  remarked  on  the  27tli  of 
April  that  he  was  going  to  discharge  one  of  the  deputies,  and  asked 
what  I  would  make  the  collections  for  in  that  entire  district.  I  told 
liim  it  would  incrense  the  traveling  expenses  fully  fifty  per  cent.,  and  I 
thought  that  would  be  about  right.  To  that  he  responded :  I  would 
rather  pay  it  all  to  one  than  to  two  men.  I  told  him  fifty  per  cent,  would 
be  satisfactory  to  me. 

Q.  Do  you  mean  to  say  that  Dr.  Mott  could  himself  discharge  a  dep- 
uty "? — A.  That  is  what  he  said. 

Q.  How  many  was  he  allowed,  do  you  know  ? — A.  He  was  allowed 
three,  I  think  ;  that  is  my  recollection  ;  I  am  not  positive  about  that ; 
I  did  hear  he  got  the  allowance  that  Mr.  Wyiie  had,  and  my  recol- 
lection with  that  amount,  Mr.  Wylie  had  three,  and  paid  the  three. 

Q.  The  collector  had  no  discretion  about  that;  he  could  not  have 
more  than  the  number  allowed  him  by  the  department  ? — A.  The  collec- 
tor made  application  for  an  allowance  to  run  the  district.  Sometimes 
he  had  more,  sometimes  less,  when  allowed  so  much. 

(^.'  Don't  you  know  that  there  was  some  difference  in  the  system  of 
collecting  under  Mr.  Wylie  than  under  his  successor.  Dr.  Mott  ? — A. 
None  at  all  at  that  time,  nor  any  until  a  jear  after  that. 

Q.  That  was  until  1873? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  there  was  no  change  in  the 
plau  of  collection  until  the  assessor's  office  was  abolished. 

Q.  And  it  was  at  that  time  you  understood  your  salary  was  raised  to 
$150? — A.  Xo,  sir ;  my  salary  was  reduced  to  $125,  and  I  was  given 
lour  (M)unti('s.  Prior  to  tliat  time  I  had  the*collections  to  make  of  the 
entire  district. 

Q.  Tli(!U  1  understand,  you  did  not  receive  the  $100,  and  you  expected 
Dr.  Mott  to  i)ay  you  the  $50  whether  aHowed  liim  or  not? — A.  That 
Avas  his  (•ontra<;t  with  me.  I  renck'red  the  ser\  ice,  and  thought  1  was 
entith'd  to  it. 

Q.  You  make  no  alh'gation  that  i)r.  Mott  ever  received  any  more 
on  that  a(;count  than  he  paid  to  you '? — A.  No,  sir. 

(}.  Did  Di'.  M(»tt  i)romise  to  do  anything  more  than  to  recommend  it? 
— A.  No,  sir;  lie  ])rornised  it  straight  out.  I  was  not  going  to  the  ex- 
tra expense  unless  he  had  done  it,  because  I  incurred  lieavy  traveling 
■cxpiMises,  and  at  tln^  end  of  the  year  was  in  debt. 

i).  Coiihl  lie  not  have  got  any  man  to  do  it  for  $100  ?^A.  He  could 
ha\e  got  two  men  for  $100  ewcli.      1  was  in  (h'bt  at  the  end  of  the  year 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  65 

at  the  $100.     If  I  had  got  the  $50  allowed,  it  Mould  not  much  more  than 
have  paid  expenses. 

Q.  Your  construction  of  it  is,  that  he  was  to  paj'  you  8150  whether 
allowed  it  or  not,  and  not  sini])ly  to  recommend  it  and  try  to  get  it  for 
you? — A.  Yes,  sir.  The  district  consisted  of  twehe  counties;  I  was 
held  responsible  for  every  bit  of  the  tax,  and  had  to  get  it.  Sometimes 
travel  forty  or  fifty  miles,  and  hardly  got  taxes  enough  to  pay  for  the 
expenses  of  making  the  trip. 

Q.  I  understand  your  complaint  against  Dr.  Mott  to  be,  that  he  would 
not  pay  you  $50  out  of  his  pocket? — A.  No,  sir.  I  understood  him  to 
drop  one  dei)uty  and  I  took  the  i)lace  of  two. 

Q.  Did  he  have  the  right  to  drop  a  deputy? — A.  The  deputies  were 
appointed  and  dismissed  at  his  will. 

Q.  He  had  the  appointment  and  dropping  of  deputies? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Without  the  department  here  ? — A.  The  department  does  not  ap- 
point them.  He  merely  notities  the  department  when  he  appointed  and 
when  he  dropped  any  one — at  that  time. 

Q.  Why  did  you  decline  to  sign  the  other  set  of  vouchers;  was  it  be- 
cause you  thought  it  too  little? — A.  I'es,  sir. 

Q.  He  wanted  you  to  sign  the  set  of  vouchers  that  the  department 
was  allowing  ? — A.  He  wanted  me  to  sign  a  set  of  vouchers  for  a  less 
amount  than  I  contracted  with  him  to  receive. 

Q.  That  was  for  the  amount  allowed  him — the  $100? — A.  He  wanted 
me  to  sign  vouchers  for  $100.  At  that  time  I  did  not  know  what  was 
allowed.     This  other  information  came  up  since. 

Q.  Did  3'ou  not  agree  with  Mr.  Horah  at  one  time  tliat  you  would  set- 
tle with  Dr.  Mott? — A.  He  told  me  I  would  have  to  settle  with  him. 

Q.  Did  you  not  agree  with  him  to  that  effect? — A.  Xo,  sir;  I  did 
not.  He  had  said  he  wanted  me  to  sign. '  I  refused  to  do  it,  and  did 
not  do  it. 

Q.  You  never  agreed  to  make  any  settlement  before  the  suit  at  all  ? 

A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  sue  Dr.  Mott? — A.  He  brought  suit  against  me,  and 
I  brought  a  counter-claim  ;  before  he  had  brought  that  suit,  I  had  em- 
ployed an  attorney  in  that  county. 

Q.  What  did  he  claim  against  you  in  the  suit  ? — A.  Two  hundred  and 
some  odd  dollars. 

Q.  For  what  ? — A.  He  said  it  was  for  collections  not  returned. 

Q.  Of  special  taxes? — A.  Internal  revenue.  I  don't  think  it  was 
specified. 

Q.  Did  not  the  deputies  at  that  time  collect  special  taxes  and  settle 
them  with  the  collector? — A.  We  collected  all  kinds  of  taxes. 

Q.  He  made  the  allegation  that  you  had  not  settled  for  all  your  col- 
lections with  him?^A.  He  made  the  allegation  there  was  that  much 
due  from  me,  as  he  at  first  claimed  a  larger  amount — more  than  was 
due. 

Q.  Due  from  you  to  him  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  With  collections  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  brought  a  counter  claim  that  he  lacked  $50  a  month  in  pay- 
ing you  for  your  services  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  that  is  the  state  of  the  litigation  between  you  ? — A.  There 
was  a  long  period  when  there  was  no  payments  at  all,  only  in  the  way 
of  collections.  Mott  said,  "you  are  traveling  about  and  collecting  for 
the  government,  and  I  don't  think  there  is  any  impropriety  in  paying 
these  expenses  in  that  way." 

Q.  You  paid  yourself  out  of  your  collections  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 
S.  Mis.  IKi 5 


66  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVxENUE    IN 

Q.  And  his  allegation  was  that  you  applied  more  than  you  had  a 
right  to  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  did  not  settle,  and  he  sued  you  on  that  ground,  and  you 
brought  a  counter  claim  1 — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  he  dismiss  you  from  the  service? — A.  He  told  me  that  my 
appointment  would  cease,  and  then  he  wanted  me  to  close  up. 

Q.  And  it  did  cease? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  On  this  ground,  was  it  ? — A.  I  don't  know  for  what.  There  was 
no  trouble;  nothing  said  of  that  kind.  The  only  reason  assigned  was 
that  1  was  a  deputy  and  making  drawings  of  the  distilleries,  which  I 
did  at  his  own  request,  and  he  said  the  department  complained  of  it. 
That  was  all  the  reason  ever  assigned.  I  did  it  at  his  request,  and  at 
reduced  prices. 

Q.  That  suit  is  still  pending  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  Not  settled  yet  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Xot  settled  whether  you  owe  him  or  not? — A.  No,  sir.  I  brought 
the  case  up  at  this  court,  but  his  attorney  made  a  statement  that  Dr. 
Mott  could  not  be  there  at  the  trial. 

Q.  How  long  has  the  suit  been  pending? — A.  Somewhere  in  the 
neighborhood  of  six  years. 

Q.  It  is  alleged  that  you  made  collections  which  you  did  not  settle 
for  ? — A.  I  don't  recollect  his  complaint  now,  but  the  substance  of  it 
was  that  «2C0,  or  thereabouts,  was  due  him. 

Q.  Do  you  deny  that  amount? — A.  I  do;  I  claim,  on  the  other  hand, 
that  there  was  some  Ave  or  six  hundred  dollars  due  me. 

Q.  In  this  $50  a  month  held  back? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Not  for  anything  else;  and  he  charges  there  is  $270  due  him? — A. 
He  failed  to  allow  some  disbursements  made  on  account  of  his  office 
and  on  his  orders,  for  postage  stamps  and  office  furniture,  reducing  my 
salary,  thus  making  up  this  estimate,  $276. 

Q.  The  substance  of  it  is  that  you  did  receive  the  $100  a  mouth  ? — A. 
That  would  not  leave  that  $276.  There  is  not  that  much  due  him. 
I  did  not — had  I  received  the  $100  a  month  all  through,  but  he  ruled 
out  an  amount  for  office  furniture  and  stamps  purchased  for  the  office. 

Q.  But  if  you  were  contined  to  that  $100  there  Avould  be  some  of  that 
due  against  you  ? — A.  There  would  be  a  part  of  it  due. 

Q.  I'rovided  they  did  not  give  you  but  the  $100  ? — A.  Something  due, 
but  nothing  like  that  amount. 

Q.  That  is,  you  applied  from  your  collections  to  your  own  purpose  more 
than  $100  a  month  ? — A.  In  traveling  expenses  through  the  district,  as 
1  remarked  before.  Incurring  the  expenses  I  did,  I  was  in  debt  at  the 
end  of  the  year.  I  would  state  in  explanation,  on  my  first  appointment,  I 
luid  only  half,  or  half  the  district  and  one  county  over.  On  the  second 
appointment  I  was  to  have  the  whole  twelve  counties,  and  to  look  after 
the  collection  of  the  taxes  from  the  whole  district,  and  it  remained  so 
until,  I  think,  about  tin?  latter  part  of  May  or  June,  1873;  don't  remem- 
ber now  which.  I  think  itch)se<l  June,  1873.  After  that  I  was  assigned 
to  four  (iounties  at  $125  per  month,  and  about  that  amcmnt  has  been 
j)aid.  There  is  no  c()ntr()\'orsy  ahont  that.  With  the  reservation  I  have 
mentioned,  those  accounts  l)eing  ruled  out,  leaves  that  balance. 

r.y  til*'  Chairman  : 

Q.  Have  you  observed  anything  of  the  workings  of  the  revenue  de- 
jjartiiK-nt  tln-rc,  since  yon  ceased  to  1k'.  an  ollicer  ? — A.  No,  sir;  1  can't 
say  that  I  have  any  direct  knowledge  at  all  of  it. 

Q.   I>o  you  know  anything  about  the  division  of  stills  into  a  luimlHjr 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  67 

of  sinaller  ones  that  is  going"  on  down  there  ? — A.  I^othing  only  com- 
mon rnmor. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  the  way  in  which  storekeepers  are 
appointed — what  hand  the  distillers  have  in  appointing  them  ? — A.  Dur- 
ing the  time  I  was  connected  with  the  service  there  was  but  one  ap- 
pointment there  could  be  any  reasonable  fault  with,  and  Dr.  Mott  spoke 
"with  me  about  that ;  he  remarked  he  thought  there  was  something  ques- 
tionable about  it,  but  that  he  was  placed  in  a  positicm  that  he  did  not 
know  how  to  get  at  it. 

Q.  Who  was  that  ? — A.  It  was  a  distillery  run  bj^  Hall  &  Benbow. 
I  think  Benbow  was  the  man's  name  who  ran  the  distillery  first.  After- 
wards it  was  sold  out  and  Benbow  applied  for  the  storekeepership. 

Q.  Hall  &  Benbow  were  partners,  and  they  dissolved? — A.  Hall  was 
a  silent  partner. 

Q.  And  then  it  was  sold  to  Hall  entirely,  and  Benbow  remained  a 
store-keeper? — A.  Yes,  sir.  He  reumrked  he  did  not  like  the  course  of 
affairs,  but  did  not  know  what  course  to  take. 

Q.  That  was  while  you  were  in  office  f — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Since  that  time  do  you  know  of  any  cases  existing  where  store- 
keepers divide  their  pay  with  distillers  ? — A.  Only  common  rumor. 

Q.  Can  you  give  the  names  of  parties  whom  rumor  says  did  these 
things,  so  that  you  may  aid  the  investigation  ? — A.  I  heard  one  store- 
keeper saying  something  about  it ;  don't  recollect  precisely  what  he 
said.  He  is  now  out  of  the  service,  and  judge  that  was  the  cause  of 
it.     His  name  was  Bruner. 

Q.  What  was  the  cause  of  it  ? — A.  He  would  not  divide  with  the  dis- 
tiller. 

Q.  Where  is  he '? — A.  Salisbury,  X.  C. 

Q.  What  is  his  given  name  ? — A.  Thomas  K.  Bruner. 

Q.  Is  he  the  only  one  you  heard  speak  on  that  subject  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
I  had  nothing  to  do  with  the  revenue  service  since,  and  have  not  talked 
with  any  one  about  it.  He  was  down  at  my  house  one  evening,  rather 
out  of  humor,  and  just  remarked  he  would  do  nothing  first  before  he 
would  work  and  pay  somebody  else. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  it  is  not  the  common  understanding  in  that  coun- 
try, so  far  as  yon  know,  that  distillers  dictate  who  their  storekeepers 
shall  be,  and  refuse  to  run  if  they  do  not  get  them  ? — A.  During  my 
connection  with  the  service  I  heard  but  one  distiller  make  any  such 
statement  as  that,  and  that  was  a  man  by  the  name  of  Mull.  He  stated 
if  he  did  not  get  aman  to  suit  he  would  not  run.  It  was  when  I  went  up 
to  take  the  capacity  of  his  distillery,  to  which  I  replied, "  I  guess  you  will 
take  whom  they  send."  Said  he,  "  If  they  don't  send  a  man  to  suit  me 
I  won't  run." 

Q.  Did  he  afterwards  run  ? — A.  He  did. 

Q.  The  presumption  is  he  got  a  man  that  suited  him  ? — A.  Well,  he 
complained  of  Dr.  Mott,  I  think,  shortly  after.  Said  he  could  not  get 
him  to  talk  with  him  ;  he  was  very  indifferent  and  would  not  talk  with  a 
common  man.  He  did  not  get  any  satisfaction  out  of  the  doctor,  and 
that  is  the  reason  he  approached  me,  saying  he  could  not  do  anything 
through  him.  I  told  him  he  could  not  do  anything  more  with  me  thaa 
with  the  doctor.  He  is  the  only  man  I  heard  of — that  I  know  of  my  own 
personal  knowledge. 

Q.  laskedif  it  was  not  the  common  understanding  that  distillers  coukl 
dictate  who  their  storekeepers  should  bef — A.  I  have  heard  it  said; 
whether  any  ground  for  it  I  could  not  say  ;  heard  ir  spoken  of  several 
times. 


68  COLLLCTIOISr    OF    INTERXAL    EEVENUE    IN 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  auy  case  wliere  one  distillery  has  l>eeii  made  into 
two  or  three  by  dividing-  it  f — A.  Xo,  sir ;  I  don't.  In  liowan  County 
there  is  very  little  of  that  sort  of  work  carried  on. 

Q.  There  is  very  little  distilling-  in  that  county  ? — A.  And  I  travel 
very  little  through  the  upper  counties  where  the  distilling  is  carried  on. 
My  business  since  then  is  in  a  different  line. 

Cross-examination  resumed. 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  You  did  not  hear  any  complaint  of  this  kind  from  Mr.  Bruner 
until  after  he  was  discharged  ? — A.  Xo ;  I  think  he  had  ceased  then. 
From  his  statement  he  is  not  discharged  yet;  only  not  assigned. 

Q.  Out  of  employ  ? — A.  Out  of  employ. 

Q.  And  you  say  Mr.  Bruner  was  in  ill  humor  ?— A.  He  was  complain- 
ing as  if  he  luul  not  been  treated  right. 

Q.  Mr.  Mull  is  a  distiller  ?— A.  I  think  he  is. 

Q.  He  is  not  a  revenue  oflflcer  ? — A.  I  don't  know  that  he  is.  I  have 
not  seen  him  for  seven  or  eight  years. 

Q.  He  said  he  would  not  run  unless  he  could  get  a  storekeeper  to 
suit  him  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  He  talked  with  Dr.  Mott  about  it,  and  could  not  get  any  satisfac- 
tion out  of  the  doctor  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  He  tried  to  get  a  little  more  satisfaction  out  of  you,  and  you  could 
give  him  no  more  ? — A.  Xot  a  bit;  he  would  have  to  take  whoever  was 
assigned  to  him. 

Q.  He  did  run  the  distillery  ? — A.  He  finally  got  ready  to  run ;  I 
don't  think  he  ran  until  after  I  left  the  service.  I  have  no  recollection 
about  being  at  his  distillery  after  it  was  runuing;  I  think  this  conver- 
sation was  in  the  summer  or  the  fall  of  1873. 

Q.  You  do  not  pretend  to  say  that  he  did  get  a  storekeeper  to  suit 
Xiiiu  ? — A.  No,  sir  ;  I  don't  know  whether  he  got  one  to  suit  him  or  not. 

Q.  You  don't  know  anything  except  he  could  not  get  any  satisfaction 
out  of  Dr.  jNIott  nor  out  of  you  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  were  asked  if  there  was  not  a  common  rumor  down  there  that 
there  was  a  division  between  storekeepers  and  distillers,  and  you  said 
you  had  heard  it ;  do  you  mean  to  say  that  this  rumor  was  a  commou 
one  ? — A.  I  heard  it  spoken  of  by  several  connected  with  the  service, 
or  who  had  transactions  with  it;  and  of  course  by  those  outside  of  the 
parties  interested  in  the  revenue  service. 

(}.  Was  it  anytliing  more  than  a  political  rumor? — A.  1  can't  say 
u])on  Avhat  foundation  it  was. 

i^.  Did  yon  heai-  it  at  any  other  time,  except  when  a  political  cam- 
j)aigii  was  going  on  '. — A.  I  can't  say  as  to  that;  I  just  heard  it  float- 
ing around — spoken  of  l)y  several  individuals.  I  can't  pretend  to  fix 
the  time  nor  men — the  individnals  that  I  heard  speaking  of  it. 

Q.  I  noticed  tin'  (piestion  when  put  to  you  about  a  "common  under- 
standing*'; do  N  on  mean  to  say  that  a  common  iiimor  was  a  common 
nndtrsianding;  is  there  any  diflerence  in  your  mind  between  the  two? — 
A.  My  idea  al)ont  a  rnmor  is  whei-e  several  parties  are  speaking  of  it — 
not  con  lined  to  two  or  tlirec,  but  where  it  is  a  sort  of  rumor  in  the  air 
tlmt  yon  mert  every  now  and  tlicn. 

(^).  W'oidfl  you  say  that  was  an  "  understaiuling,"  or  Just  a  susincionof 
it  .' — A.  I  don't  know  tliat  i  would  be  prepared  to  deline  between  those 
two.  It  is  a  matter  of  Nolition  with  jtersons  as  to  what  theii"  under- 
standing of  a  tiling  is.     I  would  say  that  an  understanding  has  some- 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  69 

tiling  rather  positive  about  it;  while  you  could  not  say  it  positively, 
but  to  the  best  of  your  knowIedjLie  and  belief;  while  a  coiuiiion  rumor 
would  be  something  you  would  not  be  entitled  to  give  any  more  than  a 
jiassing  credibility  to. 

Q.  And  this  thing  was  rumor  and  not  understanding  ?— A.  Kumor; 
could  not  say  it  was  understanding  ;  1  may  be  wrong  and  may  be  right. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.   I  understood  you  to  say  to  Colonel  Pool  that  this  rumor  was 
mostly  among  those  who  had  dealings  with  the  distillers? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

J.  A.  Clarke  recalled  and  cross-examined. 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  You  heard  what  Mr.  Kestler  said  in  regard  to  the  making- 
out  of  these  vouchers,  and  your  own  name  was  used.  I  wish  that 
you  would  give  such  an  explanation  of  that  whole  transaction  as  the 
circumstances  surrounding  it  require. — Answer.  In  giving  my  evi- 
dence the  other  day  I  overlooked  the  Kestler  matter  when  asked.  lu 
regard  to  the  vouchers,  I  did  it,  as  said  before,  as  a  mere  matter  of  forin. 
Dr.  JMott  being  away,  the  quarterly'  account  had  to  go  on.  I  made  up 
such  vouchers  as  I  had  and  sent  them  on.  He  was  off  in  the  district 
doing  campaign  work  and  things  of  that  kind,  and  I  believe  I  signed 
one  of  Mr.  Kestler's,  not  knowing  at  that  time  he  was  not  a  deputy,  but 
afterwards  found  out,  and  made  amended  vouchers  as  they  were  ap- 
pointed. Dr.  Mott  had  men  specially  working  all  through  the  district, 
which  he  paid,  and  he  paid  most  of  them  himself.  As  I  said,  I  made 
these  and  put  them  in.  Dr.  Mott  did  not  tell  me  at  that  time  who  were 
the  deputies.  Mr.  Kestler  had  been  there.  I  did  not  know  whether  he 
was  at  work  or  not ;  had  not  known  Dr.  Mott  very  long. 

Q.  The  sort  of  service  he  was  on  was  in  the  nature  of  a  secret  service  ? — 
A.  So  I  suppose — policing  in  different  counties  all  over  the  district. 

Q.  He  belonged,  therefore,  to  a  class  of  which  you  would  not  know 
when  a  party  was  in  or  when  a  party  was  out  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  And  in  Dr.  3Iott's  absence  you  made  these  out  without  his  knowl- 
edge?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  neglect  to  make  Dr.  Mott  an  explanation  of  it  when  he 
came  home  ? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  it  went  on  until  some  outside  parties  spoke 
of  it ;  then  it  was  explained  by  amended  accounts. 

Q.  In  which  you  left  Mr.  Kestler  out  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  AVas  any  of  these  vouchers  ever  paid  by  the  department  ? — A. 
No.  sir.  So  much  was  allowed  to  run  the  district.  Dr.  Mott  changed 
the  appointment  of  men. 

Q.  Nothing  was  ever  allowed  Kestler  ? — A.  Only  the  $05. 

Q.  So  that  really  no  money  was  ever  drawn  from  the  department  on 
account  of  these  vouchers? — A.  No,  sir;  just  Avhat  was  allowed  by  the 
auditor's  report. 

Q.  Was  Dr.  Mott  engaged  in  a  political  campaign  at  that  time  ? — A. 
I  think  so;  Dr.  Mott  was  everywhere  going  about. 

Q.  Was  it  in  the  campaign  of  1872  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  it  must  be. 
It  has  been  a  long  time  ago,  and  don't  remember  about  these  things. 

Q.  Do  you  lecollect  it  was  a  very  exciting  campaign  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Everybody  was  engaged  in  it  who  was  in  politics  at  all  exten- 
sively?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  This  was  shortly  after  Dr.  Mott's  appointment? — A.  Yes,  sir;  the 
same  year. 


70  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  The  summer  follo\vin<>-  his  appointment  in  the  .spring? — A.  lie 
did  not  get  the  olHce  until  the  loth  of  March. 

Q.  This  was  the  summer  foHoAving  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(,).  Did  you  then  go  with  Dr.  Mott  ?  You  had  been  employed  in  the 
reveuue  service  f — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Where  at'?— A.  The  fourth  district— lialeigh, 

Q.  The  Metropolitau  district  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  came  you  to  go  up  to  Dr.  Mott's  district  ? — A.  For  the  pur- 
pose of  starting  the  office,  with  the  understanding  I  would  stay  about 
thirty  days.     Henry  Cowles  was  going  to  be  clerk,  I  think. 

Q.  There  was  a  supervisor  of  internal  revenue  at  that  time? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  Mr.  Perry. 

Q.  Mr.  Perry  recommended  you  to  be  sent  up  there  ? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
Tery  highly. 

Q.  For  the  purpose  of  having  an  experienced  hand  with  the  collector 
to  start  things  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  He  went  oft'  through  the  summer  when  you  made  this  mistake  ? — A. 
I  did  not  so  consider  it — hardly  in  that  way.  A  great  many  collectors 
are  paid  by  commission,  and  still  put  these  things  in.  They  were  allowed 
to  hire  their  deputies  and  pay  commission  on  what  they  collected. 

Q.  And  you  generally  made  up  all  the  papers  in  the  office  to  be  sent 
to  the  department  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

•Q.  You  did  not  submit  them  to  Dr.  Mott ;  you  usually  signed  them 
without  explanation  to  him  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir ;  he  hardlj'  ever  looked  at 
the  face  of  the  papers. 

Q.  He  signed  them  relying  upon  your  experience  ? — A.  Sometimes 
had  not  seen  them  at  all ;  sometimes  signed  them  in  blank. 

Q.  On  the  faith  of  your  experience  as  being  sent  there  by  the  super- 
visor ? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  It  appears  from  the  testimony  of  Mr.  Kestler  himself  that  he  had 
not  seen  some  of  these  papers  where  his  name  appears  ? — A.  I  stated  I 
signed  one  of  them  myself.     I  wanted  to  make  the  papers  up. 

Q.  All  these  deputies  gave  you  authority  to  sign  their  names,  when 
they  were  absent,  to  formal  jDapers  ? — A.  Generally  so.    I  am  not  certain. 

Q.  These  papers  were  made  up  quarterly? — A.  Yes,  sir;  every  three 
months. 

Q.  The  department  knew  the  number  of  deputies  down  there  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir ;  they  were  allowed  so  many,  at  such  prices. 

Q.  And  if  a  depnty's  name  went  in  that  was  not  among  the  number 
the  department  Avould  know — although  you  certified  to  it — it  was  a  mis- 
take?— A.  Y'es,  sir. 

(^.  So  there  was  no  danger  of  anybody  being  deceived  up  here? — A. 
Ko.     No  money  here  would  tlu'u  be  allowed. 

Q.  In  ])oint  of  fact  nothing  was  allowed? — A.  They  only  paid  what 
they  thought  was  right;  they  might  liavebeen  sent  up  for  810,()()(),  but 
would  not  get  it. 

<^.  Th(;re  was  no  i)Ossibility  of  drawing  any  money  on  such  things  ? — 
A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Did  yon  feel  i'niQ  to  make  up  these  accounts  of  these  deputies  if 
finy  of  them  liajipened  to  be  absent,  and  to  put  their  names  to  them? — 
A.  I  thonglit  it  no  iiarm.  I  did  nothing  I  thought  Avas  wrong  in  the 
mattei'. 

Q.  ^'ou  icgai'dcd  it  all  as  a  niattci'  of  Ibrm;  the  department  knew  all 
about  it  here  ! — Ves,  sii'. 

(i.  So  your  mistake  could  not  ]ia\e  any  eCleel  upliereat  all? — A.  No 
4it1ect,  as  the  department  did  not  allow  anything  of  that  kind. 


THE    .SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLIXA.  71 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Yoii  said  just  now  that  Dr.  Mott  did  not  know  of  these  things 
that  were  done  ? — A.  Did  not  know  which  ? 

Q.  Did  not  know  these  acconnts  were  made  out  improperly? — A.  At 
that  time  he  did  not.     No,  sir. 

Q.  You  swore  the  other  day,  wlien  you  were  examined  in  chief,  that 
lie  did  know  of  it,  and  that  it  was  doue  for  a  certain  purpose  ? — A. 
Tliat  was  in  the  statement  I  made  at  the  time  that  the  office  of  assessor 
was  abolished — not  about  the  Kestler  matter. 

Q.  (Quoting)— 

Q.  You  made  these  accounts  up  for  those  gaugers? — A.  Yes,  sir;  made  up  their 
vouclicrs. 

Q.  In  the  case  of  the  depitty  collectors,  you  say  that  was  done  for  the  purpose  of 
increasing  the  estimate,  as  you  have  explained? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  was  known  to  Dr.  Mott  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  known  to  everybody  almost ;  we 
made  no  secret  of  it  at  all,  and  I  think  Mr.  Wheeler  rather  advised  to  make  as  big  a 
sliowing  as  we  could,  knowing  we  had  a  large  district  to  look  after. 

The  approval  of  these  vouchers  was  signed  and  sworn  to  by  Dr. 
Mott,  as  set  forth  in  his  affidavit,  and  you  can't  say  that  he  did  not 
know  what  he  swore  to  ? — A.  We  never  swore  each  other. 

Q.  This  certificate  that  it  was  sworn  to,  then,  is  false  ? — A.  He  did 
not  swear  to  it. 

Q.  Although  the  certificate  says  he  did  swear  to  it;  then  that  is  a 
forgery  ?  Did  Mr.  Kestler  at  any  time  authorize  you  to  make  out  these 
vouchers  for  him  1 — A.  I  am  not  certain  ;  a  great  many  of  the  deputies 
did. 

Q.  Don't  you  know  who  did  ? — A.  Don't  know  who  did. 

Q.  You  thought  it  no  harm  to  make  these  out  and  sign  his  name  ? — 
A.  I  sent  it  on  to  get  my  accounts  in. 

Q.  And  the  oath  attached  to  these  papers  was  not  really  taken  ? — 
A.  Not  taken. 

Q.  It  was  all  done  by  you,  and  you  thought  it  no  harm  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  Were  you  not  indicted  about  this  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  What- were  you  indicted  for "? — A.  About  the  gaugers  of  the  dis- 
trict. 

Q.  You  had  done  the  gaugers  accounts  in  the  same  way  ? — A.  No, 
sir.  I  only  made  up  their  accounts  from  their  vouchers.  They  indicted 
me  to  keep  me  from  being  a  witness. 

Q.  What  was  the  offense  charged  against  you?— A.  For  aiding  the 
gaugers  of  the  district  to  perpetrate  fraud. 

Q.  What  became  of  that  indictment? — A.  Xoll 2)rossed. 

Q.  You  were  let  off,  in  other  words  ;  they  did  not  push  it  against  you  1 — 
A.  I  tried  to  get  it  pushed  at  any  cost. 

Q.  You  were  sworn  before  Mr.  Henderson,  referee  in  this  suit  between 
Mott  and  Eamsay  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  this  a  correct  copy  of  your  testimony  ? — A.  I  don't  know,  sir. 

Q.  Let  me  read  it  to  you  to  see  if  it  is  correct  (quoting): 

J.  A.  Clarke,  being  duly  sworn,  deposeth  and  saith  : 

I  now  reside  in  Atlanta,  Ga.,  and  have  been  since  March  15,  1879.  I  was  chief  clerk 
for  Dr.  Mott  from  March,  187'2,  to  May  24,  1874.  It  was  customary  for  the  deputy  col- 
lectors to  sign  their  vouchers  in  blank.  Captain  Ramsay  signed  his  that  way.^  We 
filled  up  the  vouchers  for  larger  amounts  than  was  actually  paid  for  the  purpose,  if 
possible,  of  getting  a  large  allowance  and  increase  of  pay.  We  wished  to  get  as 
much  for  the  deputies  and  employes  as  the  government  would  allow.  Captain  Ram- 
say's vouchers  were  tilled  up  for  $150  per  month,  as  a  general  thing.  The  same  plan 
was  applied  to  others.     I  myself  received  .$1,500  a  year,  but  my  vouchers  were  for 


72  COLLECTION    OF    ITTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

$1,800.  Captain  Eauisay  was  paid  the  amounts  allowed  by  government,  as  stated  in 
the  transcript  of  letters  on  tile.  Captain  Ramsay  never  told  me  he  was  to  receive,  by 
special  contract,  $150  per  mouth. 

The  goveruuieut  objected  to  the  tiling  of  vouchers  for  a  larger  amount  than  was 
actually  paid  the  employes.  A  fuss  was  made  about  it,  and  Dr.  Mott  was  required 
to  get  vouchers  for  the  true  amounts,  which  was  done,  and  all  the  eniploy6s  signed 
except  Captain  Ramsay.  He  never  told  me  what  he  was  paying  any  of  the  deputies. 
I  kept  the  records  and  knew  what  he  was  paying. 

A.  That  was  after  the  office  g'ot  started.  Now  Kamsay,  he  was  a  col- 
lector on  the  list  and  had  to  sell  stamps  and  collect  special  taxes,  and 
of  course  I  had  to  keep  a  strict  account  with  him ;  the  other  men  were 
policing",  &c. 

Q.  What  time  were  you  discharged  ? — A.  Discharged  the  15th.  of  May, 
1874 

Mr.  Pool.  I  do  not  understand  the  explanation  the  witness  made  to 
you  of  the  testimony  that  he  gave  when  he  was  on  the  stand  before  in 
reference  to  Mr.  Kestler. 

The  CHAIR3IAN.  In  the  examination-in-chief  I  do  not  think  the  Kest- 
ler case  was  mentioned. 

31r.  Pool.  When  the  examination-in-chief  was  read  to  him ;  what  lie 
testified  to  there  occurred  after. 

The  AViTNESS.  I  explained  that  the  other  day.  It  was  the  time  when 
the  assessors'  offices  were  abolished  in  the  United  States.  I  had  refer- 
ence then  to  Ur.  Mott  knowing  the  accounts. 

Q.  You  say  that  Br.  Mott  did  not  know  about  making  up  these  Kestler 
accounts  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  In  your  direct  examination  you  said  he  did  know  what  was  spoken 
of  then.  That  was  after  ? — A.  That  happened  in  1873;  a  different  mat- 
ter. I  did  not  speak  of  the  Kestler  matter  at  all  in  the  examination  the 
other  day. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  You  spoke  generally  of  the  deputies'  accounts,  and  he  was  a  dep- 
uty ? — A.  I  had  forgotten  it;  about  another  deputy;  had  not  thought 
about  it  for  ten  years,  and  said  I  would  have  to  make  an  explanation 
to  the  committee. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 
Q.  In  regard  to  Mr.  Kestler? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
Q.  Which  is  the  explanation  you  make  here  now! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

().  Then  you  wish  your  explanation  to  stand  that  Dr.  Mott  knew  ol 
all  the  rest  of  the  accounts  made  out  except  Kestler's? — A.  He  knew 
all  of  1873,  when  we  took  the  vouchers  ibr  so  nmny.  lie  knew  of  them, 
but  the  other  matter 

(^  Which  "other  matter"?— A.  The  Kestler  matter. 

(^  The  Kestler  matter  was  in  1872  or  1873. — A.  It  was  in  1872  or 
early  ])art  of  1873.  The  assessor's  office  was  abolished  about  the  10th  of 
]\lay,  1873.     J  think  he  was  in  then. 

AcijoiiiiH'd  till  "Wednesday.  June  21,  at  10a.  m. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  73 

Washington,   Wednesday,  June  21,  1882. 

The  committee  met  at  10  a.  m. 

W.  H.  Kestler  recalled  aud  examined. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  Wlien  you  were  examined  about  tliese  vouchers  the  other 
day,  two  of  which  you  had  signed  in  blank,  and  the  others  that  3'ou  said 
were  forgeries  ? — Answer.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  There  were  two  or  three  questions  that  I  neglected  to  ask  you. 
Did  you  authorize  Mr.  Clarke  to  sign  your  name  to  any  vouchers  ? — A. 
I  did  not,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  after  the  date  of  the  vouchers  was  it  before  you  knew 
they  had  been  put  in  ? — A.  It  was,  I  think,  some  two  or  three  years. 

Q.  How  did  you  then  find  it  out! — A.  I  found  it  out  through  Captain 
Eamsay. 

Q.  Explain  it. — A.  He  had  been  to  Washington  to  look  through 
some  of  his  own  papers,  and  when  he  came  back  he  asked  me  how  much 
money  I  had  ever  received  while  I  was  in  the  service.  I  told  him  $G5; 
He  said  there  are  vouchers  in  there  of  mine  for  some  $1,200.  I  told  him 
that  I  did  not  remember  of  signing  but  two,  and  if  more  than  two  in 
there,  they  were  forgeries,  I  thought.  I  never  knew  anything  about  it 
until  he  told  me.     I  then  sent  on  and  got  a  certified  copy  of  the  vouchers. 

Q.  Have  you  that  certified  copy  "? — A.  I  have  not,  sir. 

Q.  Can  you  remember  whether  that  certified  copy  included  both  the 
original  and  amended  vouchers  filed  here"? — A.  It  did  not  include  any 
amended ;  only  for  the  amount  that  was  in  on  my  pay  account. 

Q.  Bid  you  ever  have  any  talk  with  Dr.  Mott  about  that  ? — A.  I  did 
not,  sir. 

Mr.  Pool.  About  what  ? 

The  Chairman.  About  these  vouchers  that  were  put  in.  State  what 
he  did  say  to  you  if  you  can  remember. — A.  Dr.  Mott  came  to  see  me 
once  or  twice,  twice  I  think,  sir,  and  in  the  conversation  he  said  that 
Clarke  had  done  this,  his  clerk,  thinking  I  was  in  the  service,  and  so 
on. 

Q.  Did  he  say  whether  he  got  any  money  on  these  vouchers  ? — A. 
He  did  get  the  money. 

Q.  On  the  vouchees  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  asked  him  then,  who  got  the 
money  ;  that  he  might  as  well  have  paid  it  to  me  as  anybody  else — a 
one-armed  man.  I  remember  one  name  very  distinctly,  he  told  me,  who 
got  some  of  the  money,  a  man  by  the  name  of  Milieu  Walker. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  he  said  who  got  the  balance  of  it  ? — A.  I 
don't  remember  whether  he  did  or  did  not,  now.  I  remember  that  very 
distinctly.  He  went  on  to  say  that  it  was  frequently  the  case  to  draw 
money  over  one  man's  account  and  to  pay  it  to  another.  It  was  a  mat- 
ter I  know  nothing  about;  I  knew  nothing  about  the  service. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  I  understood  you  to  say,  in  your  examination  the  other  day,  that 
you  signed  Exhibit  9  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  in  blank. 

Q.  It  was  in  blank  when  you  signed  that  ?-:-A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  was  it  you  said  they  told  you  at  the  time  you  signed  that? — 
A.  The  voucher  ? 

Q.  Yes. — A.  They  told  me  the  one  I  had  signed  had  been  lost,  mis- 


74  C0LLECTI(3X    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

laid,  or  something  of  that  kind.  My  recollection  is,  there  was  oue  came 
by  mail,  and  that  I  signed  it  and  mailed  it. 

Q.  You  think  that  is  this  oue  ? — A.  1  could  not  say,  because  they  were 
blanks. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  sign  more  than  two  blanks  ? — A.  i^ever  that  I  rec- 
ollect. 

Q.  The  other  oue  that  you  say  you  signed  was  for  the  $0."),  as  you  have 
sworn  here  ? — A.  You  will  see,  if  you  will  allow  me  to  explain,  that  for 
these  vouchers  I  got  the  money  long  before  ever  signing  them.  The 
mouey  was  paid  to  me,  aud  afterwards  these  vouchers  were  sent  to  me 
to  sigu.  I  supposed  I  was  signing  them  for  the  pay  I  got.  They  were 
in  blank. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  sigu  more  than  two  yourself  in  blank  ? — A.  I  don't 
think  that  I  did,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  send  them  both  by  mail  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Which  one  did  you  send  by  mail! — A.  I  cannot  tell. 

Q.  But  you  signed  two.  To  whom  did  you  give  the  one  you  did  not 
send  by  mail  ? — A.  I  think  Captain  Eamsay  brought  me  one. 

Q.  That  is  the  gentleman — the  witness  here  the  other  day  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  The  other  came  by  mail  ? — A.  I  think  it  did,  to  the  best  of  my 
recollection  now. 

Q.  Did  they  tell  you  with  reference  to  both  of  them  that  it  was  sim- 
ply for  3'our  pay  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Mr.  Eamsay  told  you  that "? — A.  I  think  so,  sir. 

Q.  And  did  Mr.  Eamsay  tell  you  about  the  one  you  sent  by  mail,  that 
it  was  for  your  pay  ? — A.  That  it  was  mislaid  ? 

Q.  Xo,  for  your  pay  f — A.  ISTo,  sir ;  the  one  I  gave  was  lost,  or  was 
misplaced,  and  wanted  me  to  send  another. 

Q.  Who  told  you  that  ? — A.  I  think  Captain  Eamsay  told  me,  and 
Mr.  Clarke  told  me.  I  know  Clarke  came  to  see  me  once  or  twice  about 
it,  and  we  had  a  conversation. 

(}.  So  one  else  told  you  ? — A.  Xo  one  that  I  remember. 

(^.  Dr.  Mott  did  not  tell  you  ! — A.  ISot  that  I  remember. 

Q.  One  of  them  was  sent  to  you  by  mail? — A.  1  think  so,  to  the  best 
of  my  recollection. 

Q.  Did  Mr.  Eamsay  write  a  letter  in  sending  it  ? — A.  From  States- 
ville  ? 

Q.  Yes. — A.  I  don't  remember  now;  could  not  swear  positively. 

Q.  Mr.  Eamsay  or  Mr.  Clarke  sent  it  to  you  ? — A.  That  sent  from 
Statesville  '! 

Q.  Yes. — A.  I  don't  remember  now  who  it  was. 

Q.  ira\'('  you  got  tlui  letter  that  inclosed  it  ? — A.  'So,  sir,  I  have  not. 

Q.  You  did  not  preserve  it,  and  don't  remember  the  contents  of  it  ? — 
A.  .Just  "  Inclosed  you  will  find  blank,"  or  something  of  that  kind,  "for 
\our  ])ay.     Please  sign  and  return  same."     Sonu^thing  to  that  effect. 

(}.  Vou  don't  think  thei'e  was  any  statement  in  the  letter  that  it  was 
to  take  the  jilace  of  the  one  that  was  lost? — \.  No,  sir. 

(^.  These  statemiMits  came  to  you  throngh  ])ersonal  conversation  with 
the  two  gentlemen,  Mr.  Eamsay  and  Mi.  Clarke? — A.  Yes,  sir;  who 
were  at  tlu'  time  in  tlie  service. 

(^.  And  with  no  one  else  ? — A.  I  think  not,  as  I  remember  now. 

(Jross-exainination  by  ^Ir.  Pool: 
(}.    Did  .\(tii  luiDW  tiial  Dr.  Mot t  was  allowed  but    three   de])iities  ? — 
>\.   I  (lid  not. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  75 

Q,.  Yon  (loiTt  1:ti()w  Iio\\-  iiuiiiy  lie  was  allowed? — A,  Ko,  sir. 

Q.  You  liave  had  it  exidaiiied  to  you  by  Mr.  Clarke  that  he  thought 
you  were  theu  oue  of  tlie  deputies  ? — A.  Mr.  Clarke  never  said  that  to 
me.  Dr.  Mott  said  that  Clarke  thougiit  I  was  in  the  service  when  he 
made  out  these  pay-rolls. 

Q.  And  that  it  was  a  mistake  of  Clarke's  ? — A.  I  don't  know  that 
there  was  anything  said  about  a  mistake.  I  know  of  asking-  him  about 
the  money  ;  who  got  the  money,  or  something  of  that  kind. 

Q.  Do  you  pretend  to  say  that  there  was  any  money  drawn  on  any  of 
these  vouchers  except  the  $G5  ? — A.  I  onlj-  know  what  Mott  told  me. 
I  asked  him  who  got  this  money.     He  said  Walker  got  it. 

Q.  Was  he  not  one  of  the  deputies  ? — A.  He  was  a  deputy  at  that 
time,  or  had  been. 

Q.  Did  not  Dr.  Mott  tell  you  on  that  occasion  this :  that  I  was  al- 
lowed for  three  deputies  and  got  the  money  for  three,  and  that  you  were 
not  one  of  them,  and  I  paid  it  to  those  who  were  deputies "? — A.  No, 
sir. 

Q.  And  you  understood  him  to  say  that  he  got  tlie  money  on  these 
vouchers  of  yours? — A.  I  asked  him  the  question,  who  got  this  money? 
His  reply  to  me  was,  Milieu  Walker  got  some  of  it. 

Q.  Which  money '? — A.  This  money  drawn  over  the  vouchers  in  my 
name  at  the  department. 

Q.  Suppose  it  appear  in  the  departmeuts  that  your  vouchers  were 
disallowed,  and  uo  money  drawn  on  them  except  the  $6o'l — A,  I  don't 
know  about  that.  I  can  answer  the  money  was  drawn,  only  from  what 
Mott  told  me. 

Q.  Is  it  not  possible  you  misunderstood  Dr.  Mott  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  He  said  he  drew  the  money  on  your  vouchers? — A.  Y^es,  sir.  I 
know  he  reiterated  it;  I  remember  distinctly,  that  Walker  got  the 
money. 

Q.  Which  money? — A.  This  money  drawn  on  my  vouchers,  because 
in  the  conversation  we  got  talking  about  it,  and  my  impression  was 
that  I  was  in  the  service  a  month,  and  it  was  my  understanding  that  I 
was  to  have  $80  for  it.  When  I  went  to  Statesville  I  admit  that  I  was 
very  poor,  and  needed  everything  I  could  get.  I  had  no  money;  had 
been  unfortunate  and  lost  all  I  had,  and  did  not  know  where  to  go  to 
board;  and  my  recollection  is.  Dr.  Mott  told  me  to  go  down  and  stop 
with  a  man  named  Price,  who  kept  the  hotel.  I  staid  there  about  a 
week  or  ten  days;  my  board  bill  was  some  tifteen  or  twenty  dollars. 
I  was  called  home  ou  account  of  the  death  of  a  cliild.  I  went  to  Dr. 
Mott  and  asked  him  for  some  money;  I  told  him  I  had  uoi.e.  and  he 
gave  me  a  check  ou  the  bank  there  for  fifteen  dollars.  I  drew  the 
money  and  went  home,  and  when  I  only  received  the  ^HiJ,  I  took  it  for 
granted  that  he  had  paid  my  hotel  bill,  and  that  accounted  for  the  bal- 
ance, and  I  knew  no  better  for  some  time,  until  Price  came  down  and 
presented  me  that  board  bill.  I  told  him  I  was  under  the  impression 
that  Dr.  Mott  had  settled  it,  as  I  did  not  get  as  much  pay  as  I  thought 
I  ought  to  have.  He  saw  Dr.  Mott,  and  he  told  me  afterwards  that  Dr. 
Mott  said  he  had  nothing  to  do  with  my  board  bill,  and  afterwards  I 
paid  it  myself.  That  was  brought  up,  I  recollect.  Dr.  Mott  said  he 
was  only  allowed  for  two-thirds  of  a  month. 

Q.  Y^ou  were  only  allowed  by  the  department  here  for  two-thirds  of  a 
month? — A.  He  did  not  say  about  the  department  that  I  recollect. 

Q.  What  was  the  reason  of  Dr.  Mott  going  to  see  you  about  this 
thing? — A.  I  don't  know.  He  came  to  see  me  as  much  as  twice.  One 
time  he  had  a  pax)er  and  wanted  me  to  sign  it,  exonerating  him  from 


76  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

this  matter.  I  told  Liiii  I  could  not  do  it,  for  I  bad  nothing  to  do 
with  it. 

Q.  That  was  in  '72  or  '73? — A.  Ye.s,  sir.  It  was  a  business  to  me  that 
I  knew  nothing"  about. 

Q.  Did  he  explain  to  you  the  mistake  made  by  his  clerk? — A.  He 
told  me  that  Clarke  had  done  it,  thinking  I  was  in  the  service. 

Q.  And  that  he  made  a  mistake  ? — A.  I  don't  recollect  about  a  mis- 
take. 

Q.  You  knew  it  was  a  mistake  because  you  were  not  in  the  service  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  claim  any  of  this  money  that  was  paid  ? — A.  I  did  not. 

Q.  You  had  done  no  service  ? — A.  Xoue  at  all. 

Q.  You  were  in  the  service  at  the  time  you  received  the  $65,  how- 
ever?—A.  Yes,  sir;  850  by  post-offlce  order,  and  $15  when  I  went  to 
leave  there. 

Q.  Are  you  well  acquainted  with  the  district? — A.  No,  sir;  I  can't 
say  I  am. 

Q.  Within  the  last  two  or  three  years,  has  there  been  a  very  great 
improvement  in  the  mode  of  collecting  internal  revenue  in  that  dis- 
trict; is  there  a  better  state  ot  feeling  among  the  people  in  regard  to 
it  ? — A.  I  don't  think  I  am  expert  enough  to  answer  that. 

Q.  Was  there  not  a  great  deal  of  "blockading,"  and  illicit  distilling 
some  three  or  four  years  ago  ? — A.  I  don't  know,  sir ;  I  have  been  in  the 
whiskey  business  all  my  life.     If  there  has  been,  I  didn't  know  it. 

Q.  l^ou  don't  know  anything  of  that  sort  three  or  four  years  ago  ? — 
A.  Yes,  I  can  say  I  have  heard  of  such  things;  don't  know  them  of  my 
own  knowledge. 

Q.  Was  it  generally  talked  that  there  was  a  great  deal  of  it  ? — A. 
Four  or  live  years  ago  ? 

Q.  Three  or  four  years  ago. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  there  less  of  it  now  ? — A.  I  think  there  is. 

Q.  Then  there  has  been  an  improvement ;  is  that  improvement  very 
decided  and  very  marked  ? — A.  I  could  not  say  as  to  that.  The  county 
I  live  in,  llowan,  there  is  not  more  than  one  distillery  in  the  county,  and 
the  most  of  these  distilleries  are  in  the  mountain  counties,  a  consider- 
able distance  from  where  I  live. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  United  States  marshals,  and  proceedings  in 
United  States  courts,  and  commissioners,  and  the  people  saying  four 
or  hve  years  ago,  or  three  or  four  years  ago,  that  they  were  greatly  op- 
pressed, and  talking  of  the  outrages  committed  by  oflicers — allegations 
of  that  sort  ? — \.  I  have  heard  instances  of  that  kind. 

Q.  Did  you  hear  it  generally  talked  of  in  that  way,  and  a  good  deal 
of  rumor  and  stir  about  it? — A.  I  did  not,  in  my  own  town. 

Q.  Or  anywhere  within  the  range  of  your  acciuaintance  in  that 
locality  ? — A.  I  could  not  say  that  it  was  generally  talked,  not  in  my 
town.     I  have  heard  it. 

(}.  Has  there  been  less  of  it  in  the  last  two  or  three  years  ? — A.I 
think  there  has. 

(^.  Very  deci<le(lly  less  ? — A.  1  heard  very  little  said  about"  blockad- 
ing," or  news  of  that  kind. 

(}.  'i'here  has  been  inipioN'enient  in  both  of  these  respects?  — A.  I 
think  so. 

(}.  To  what  do  you  attribut(?  that  inii>roveinent  ? — A.  I  will  tell  you 
what  I  tiiink',and  give  you  my  idea  al>ont  it.  I  notice  a  great  many 
Dcniociiiis   appointed   in   th;it   distiiet,     I  noticed   a  good  many  squibs 


THE    SIXTH    DISTEICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  77 

ill  the  pai)ers  i)itehiiig"  into  the  collector  of  the  district,  and  noticed 
some  appointineuts  made  afterwards,  and  it  all  stopped. 

Q.  Some  api)ointments  of  Democrats? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  o-eiierally  stopped  it? — A.  I  noticed  the  Charlotte  01)server 
never  came  ont  that  it  did  not  have  something  to  say  about  that  collec- 
tion district;  and  I  know  a  paper  in  my  town,  after  some  appointments, 
stopped  the  same  thing. 

Q.  Appointments  of  Democrats? 

By  the  CnAiRMAN : 

Q.  Yon  mean  newspaper  squibs  and  complaints  were  stopped  after 
the  Democrats  were  appointed? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Do  yon  think  the  improvement  resulted  from  the  appointment  of 
Democrats  to  the  minor  oilices? — A.  I  think  so  5  it  had  a  good  deal  to 
do  with  it. 

Q.  There  became  less  "blockade"  running? — A.  I  didn't  know  about 
blockading,  I  have  not  been  engaged  in  it. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  oflicial  impropriety,  of  any  character  what- 
ever, on  the  part  of  Dr.  Mott  ? — A.  None  in  the  world ;  none  of  my  own 
knowledge. 

Q.  Can  you  name  any  one  man  in  that  district  that  ever  brought  a 
charge  of  official  impropriety  against  him  of  his  own  knowledge? — A.  I 
can't,  sir. 

Q.  Then  there  is  nothing  of  that  sort  against  him  of  your  own  knowl- 
edge, nor  can  you  recollect  any  individual  that  you  have  ever  heard 
bring  such  a  charge  against  him,  of  his  own  knowledge;  is  that  your 
answer? — A.  Allow  me  to  refresh  my  memory.  I  can't  remember  now. 
I  have  heard  something  said  about  him,  but  who 

Q.  You  heard  some  rnmors  floating  around  1 — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  These  rumors  were  a  little  more  rife  in  election  times?— A.  Ko, 
sir ;  I  don't  know  that  they  were. 

Q.  These  rumors  became  very  much  less  when  he  appointed  Demo- 
crats to  office  ? — A.  I  think  they  did. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  When  you  say  that  you  know  of  no  official  impropriety  on  the 
l)art  of  Dr.  ]Mott,  and  never  heard  of  any,  do  you  consider  the  way  in 
which  these  vouchers  were  put  in,  and  the  money  drawn  on  them,  a 
proper  act  ? — A.  I  do  not. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  of  his  levying  political  assessments  on  his  offi- 
cers?— A.  I  have,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  that  is  forbidden  by  law? — A.  I  have  heard  so,  sir. 
One  man  told  me  he  took  a  month  of  his  pay  for  political  assessments. 
An  officer  told  me  that  out  of  his  own  mouth. 

Q.  Who  was  that? — A.  Allen  Eamsay,  a  storekeeper,  a  cousin  of 
John  A.'s,  I  think. 

Q.  Y^ou  say  that  the  complaints  and  tlie  charges  about  the  revenue 
department  became  less  about  the  time  that  the  collector  made  a  num- 
ber of  Democratic  appointments? — A.  Yes,  sir;  one,  two,  or  three  that 
I  know  of. 

Q.  Have  you  also  heard  that  under  the  new  system  of  the  dividing  of 
stills,  making  three  or  four  out  of  one,  putting  a  storekeeper  to  each 
one,  and  the  storekeeper  dividing  his  pay  with  the  distiller,  that  it  may 
be  better  for  them  to  run  according  to  law  than  to  blockade? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 


78  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  You  heard  tliat  rumored  as  one  reason  the  complaints  ceased  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  have  been  in  the  liqnor  business  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  has  been  the  price  of  new  whiskey  from  the  stills  down 
there  ? — A.  Two  years  ago  I  left  Salisbury,  and  have  been  gone  about 
two  years.  I  paid  for  the  whiskej"  I  wanted,  tax  paid  and  stamped,  from 
$1.25  to  81.30  a  gallon,  and  as  low  down  as  $1.20. 

Q.  If  you  know  anything  of  the  cost  of  distilling,  there  is  not  much 
money  in  that  ? — A.  They  say  not ;  all  I  know. 

Q.  So,  if  the  storekeeper  divides  with  his  distiller,  it  was  cheaper  to 
run  that  way  than  to  blockade  ? — A.  I  suppose  so. 

Q.  Is  not  that  about  the  common  impression  or  rumor  in  the  commu- 
nity ? — A.  I  know  nothing  of  my  own  knowledge  at  all;  I  have  heard 
these  things  discussed. 

<}.  Colonel  Pool  asked  you  if  you  did  not  know  that  the  department 
disallowed  your  account,  and  that  Dr.  Mott  was  only  allowed  three 
dei)uties.     Do  you  know  anything  about  that  ? — A.  I  don't. 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  fact  that  there  was  a  certain  allowance  made 
for  the  purpose  of  paying  the  expenses  of  running  the  district,  and  that 
that  allowance  the  collector  could  distribute  to  whom  he  pleased  ;  did 
you  know  that  ? — A.  I  could  not  answer  that. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Do  you  know  any  storekeeper  who  divided  with  a  distiller  ? — A.  I 
do  not. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  a  storekeeper  say  he  had  divided  with  a  dis- 
tiller ? — A.  I  never  heard  a  storekeeper  say  so. 

(}.  Did  you  ever  hear  a  distiller  say  that  he  had  a  storekeeper  to  divide 
with  him  "?— A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  AYhat  do  you  know  about  the  storekeepers  dividing  with  the  dis- 
tillers?— A.  Only  from  what  I  have  heard  there — outside  rumors. 

Q.  Which  rumors  became  less  often,  since  they  appointed  Democrats 
to  office? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

J.  A.  Ramsay  recalled  and  examined. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  I  recall  you  for  the  purpose  of  asking  you  if  at  any  time 
you  applied  for  a  copy  of  these  vouchers  which  we  have  on  exhibit  now, 
to  be  used  in  your  suit  against  Dr.  Mott? — Answer.  Y^es,  sir;  I  did  at 
one  time  make  application  for  them. 

Q.  To  whom  ? — A.  My  recollection  is  that  the  application  was  sent  to 
a  clerk  of  the  department  in  Washington,  whom  I  was  acquainted  with^ 
to  be  laid  before  the  proper  officer.     1  sent  it  to  Mr.  Kaeder. 

Q.  Did  you  get  those  copies  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

i).  Wlicre  an?  they  ? — A.  They  were  filed  in  the  case. 

(}.  Do  you  know  where  they  are  now  ? — A.  There,  on  this  transcript 
of  the  I'ccord  (iii(li(;ating  referee's  re^iort),  the  clerk  states  they  were 
taken  out  by  Dr.  Mott. 

(},   Wlum"?— A.  On  the  10th  of  June. 

(}.  So  that  th«!y  were  not  in  your  ]>ossession,  and  not  in  the  possession 
of  th«',  court,  ac<!or(ling  to  tliat  statement. — A.  According  to  the  clerk's 
statement. 

Ml'.  IV)()L.  I  had  tii(!  i»ai)eis  here  the  other  day  for  use  before  the 
commitfef^ 

Mr.  Moi'T.  They  an-   at   tiie  iiotel  now;   I  will  go  and  get  them  if 

anted. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  79 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  When  did  you  get  these  exemplifications  from  the  office — what 
date  ? — A.  I  can't  say  now — 70  or  '77.  I  did  not  charge  my  memory 
especially  with  it. 

Q.  ]3id  these  copies  that  you  obtained  contain  these  amended  vouch- 
ers that  were  filed  by  Dr.  Mott? — A.  ISTo,  sir. 

Q.  You  asked  for  all  the  record  on  that  subject,  I  suppose? — A.  Yes, 
sir.  I  asked  for  certified  copy  of  Form  93,  together  with  the  vouchers 
that  I  specified,  covering  postage  stamj^s  and  several  other  things  that 
I  had  furnished. 

Q.  You  called  for  it  all,  and  only  got  the  original  voucher  as  produced 
here  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  And  did  not  get  the  "  amended"? — A.  There  was  a  dispute  in  re- 
gard to  the  postage  account,  and  I  sent  for  certified  copies  of  the  post- 
age account,  in  order  to  settle  that  question.  I  had  paid  for  all  the 
l)0stage  vouchers  that  were  signed  by  D.  L.  Bringle. 

I  desire  to  make  a  correction  in  my  testimony  of  the  other  day.  I 
said  in  answer  to  a  question  that  I  did  not  claim  the  $50  for  the  month 
of  April,  '73;  it  should  be  April,  '72,  instead  of  73.  The  voucher  on 
which  the  question  was  asked  me  is  not  the  voucher  referred  to.  April 
'73  is  right  and  is  claimed. 

Adjourned  until  Thursday,  June  22,  10  a.  m. 


Washington,  D.  C,  Thursday,  June  22,  1882. 

The  committee  met  at  10  a.  m. 

Mr.  Pool  (handing  to  chairman).  Here  are  the  papers  from  the 
records  of  the  court  at  Salisbury,  spoken  of  by  Mr.  Eamsay  in  his  tes- 
timony yesterday. 

The  Chairman.  I  can't  examine  them  just  now. 

Mr.  Pool.  I  suppose  they  ought  to  be  returned  to  the  records. 

The  CHAIR3IAN.  I  asked  for  copies;  the  clerk  misunderstood  it. 

Mr.  Pool.  Mr.  Gillespie  got  these.  He  was  asked  to  go  over  and 
get  copies,  and  it  seems  he  brought  these. 

W.  H.  Bailey  sworn  and  examined. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  Where  is  your  residence  ? — Answer.  Charlotte,  N.  C. 

Q.  What  is  your  profession  ? — A.  An  attorney  at  law. 

Q.  Are  you  acquainted  with  William  H.  Kestler? — A.  Y''es,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  known  him? — A.  I  have  known  Kestler  about 
fourteen  or  fifteen  years,  I  think,  sir. 

Q.  Are  you  acquainted  with  his  general  character? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  is  it  for  truth  ? — A.  Good. 

Q.  Are  you  acquainted,  also,  with  the  general  character  of  John  A. 
Ramsay? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  is  it? — A.  Very  good.  I  have  known  Mr.  Eamsay  longer, 
since  '63 — nearly  twenty  years. 

Q.  As  an  attorney,  did  you  defend  some  parties  about  1874,  on  an  in- 
dictment for  some  fraud  against  the  government? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  de- 
fended— you  mean  some  officers? 

Q.  Yes. — A.  I  defended  Mr.  Ruff.  Henderson,  and  some  others.     1 


80  COLLECTIOX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

defended  him,  I  know,  and  my  impression  is,  1  defended  some  of  the  • 
others  at  the  same  time  with  Henderson. 

Q.  Do  yon  recollect  who,  and  at  the  same  time  what  was  charged? — 
A.  I  think  Wm.  S.  Pearson,  and  a  yonng  man  named  Moore — his  given 
name  I  don't  recollect — and  Mck  Lillington.  These  four  were  indicted, 
my  recollection  is,  for  false  vouchers  as  gangers. 

Q.  Do  yon  know  whether  Mr.  Clarke  was  also  indicted? — A.  Clarke 
was  indicted  also,  but  not  for  that.  I  don't  remember  exactly  what  the 
specific  charge  was  against  Clarke.  He  was  clerk  in  the  office  of  Dr. 
Mott,  and  it  involved  the  idea  that  he  was  knowing  of  these  things.  I 
don't  remember  the  exact  charge,  or  the  manner  in  which  it  had  been 
put  in.     I  defended  or  appeared  for  Mr.  Clarke. 

Q.  I  do  not  want  to  ask  you  to  disclose  anything  that  you  know  as 
his  counsel.  You  remember  how  the  case  went  in,  and  what  was  done 
with  it? — A.  My  recollection  now  is  that  they  submitted  what  we  com- 
monly call  a  ''  submission,"  probably  a  formal  entry  of  a  plea  of  guilty, 
and  I  think  judgment  was  suspended,  and  don't  think  anything  else 
was  done  with  them. 

Q.  That  is  your  recollection? — A.  Yes,  sir;  it  never  went  to  a  jur3\ 

Q.  What  is  your  recollection  as  to  the  way  Mr.  Clarke's  case  termi- 
nated ? — A.  In  the  same  way.  It  is  a  good  while  ago,  aud  I  have  no  data 
to  refresh  my  memory.  I  appeared  in  part  for  Mr.  Clarke.  We  had 
some  other  attorneys.  Mr.  McCorkle  was  one  of  them.  It  was  a  case 
\^'e  had  to  beg  off,  out  of  the  district  attorney. 

Q.  Who  was  the  district  attorney? — A.  Mr.  Lusk.  He  was  a  very 
kind-hearted  man.  These  were  young  men  that  were  charged,  and  we 
of  course  used  all  the  intluence  we  could  with  him,  also  the  argument  of 
its  being  their  first  offense. 

Q.  All  I  wanted  to  do  was  to  negative  the  idea  that  the  case  was  nol- 
prossed  and  the  parties  acquitted? — A.  If  there  were  any  nol-prossed,  it 
is  contrary  to  my  recollection.  My  impression  is  otherwise.  If  nol- 
prossed,  it  was  with  the  same  idea  of  clemency,  I  am  satisfied. 

Q.  At  all  events  they  were  not  acquitted  on  the  merits  of  the  case? — 
A.  Xot  acquitted;  it  never  went  to  a  jury. 

By  Senator  McDill: 

(}.  Do  you  remember  the  time? — A.  Xo,  sir;  I  cannot  remember  ex- 
actly. I,  at  that  time,  had  considerable  practice  in  the  court  at  States- 
ville  ;  afterwards  the  court  at  Charlotte  was  established,  and  you  know 
how  it  is  with  these  sort  of  cases  goiug  out  of  a  man's  mind. 

Q.  It  was  some  six  or  seven  years  ago  ? — A.  Nearly  that  long,  maybe 
a  little  later.  I  had  the  impression  that  I  moved  to  Charlotte  about 
that  time,  1875. 

(^.  You  don't  remember  the  date  of  the  alleged  offense;  of  course  it 
was  earlier  than  that? — A.  Earlier  than  that.  I  know  these  indictments 
took  i)huM',  after  Mr.  Crane  came  there. 

(}.  'I'iie  secret  agent  ? — A.  The  detecti^'e  or  si^ecial  agent. 

(}.  1  believ*;  tliose  voucliers  were  in  1872,  and  he  made  some  report 
(iftiieni ! — A.  1  don't  remember  now  the  date  of  the  vouchers.  After  Mr. 
Cr;in(;  eiiinc;  tliesi;  iii<lictnients  were  gotten  up. 

(!i'()ss-exiiiiiinati(in  by  Mr.  PoOL: 
(}.   Will  yon  try  to  relresii  your  meinoi'v  a  little  by  stating  wliat  was 
charge<l  iigiiinst  Mi'.  (Mnrke? — A.  .Mr.  Clarke,  according  to  my  recollec- 
tion, was  cliarged  with   helping  to  fill  tlnim  out,  oi' something  of  that 
kind,  Jind  probably  that  lie  swore  to  these  tilings  when  he  knew  they 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  81 

were  wrong-  and  incorrect;  I  think  Lis  allegation  was,  he  had  not  sworu 
to  them.  One  of  the  grounds  we  got  him  oft'  on  and  we  had  was,  that 
he  never  actually  administered  the  oath. 

Q.  The  complaint  was  aiding  and  abetting  all  these  other  men  in  fill- 
ing up  their  vouchers  ? — .V.  Yes,  sir;  he  knew  it  was  wrong. 

Q.  You  say  these  other  parties  were  joung  men?  — A.  Yes,  sir;  quite 
young  men.  I  should  not  suppose  any  of  them  at  that  time  exceeded 
twenty-five  years  of  age. 

Q.  Was  it  not  the  allegation  that  they  came  in  with  their  memoranda 
to  Mr.  Clarke,  and  upon  their  memoranda  he  made  out  these  vouchers 
or  form  for  them  l — A.  I  am  not  clear,  but  think  that  was  the  allega- 
tion. 

Q.  That  they  had  to  go  through  a  certain  form  of  account,  and  Clarke 
fixed  it  up  for  them? — A.  Yes,  sir.  I  think  that  was  so;  they  would 
give  in  the  number  of  days  to  Mr.  Clarke,  and  he  would  fill  them  up. 

Q.  Chirke  knew  what  the  proper  form  for  the  department  was,  and 
these  young  men  knew  not  in  what  foriu  to  put  them  ? — A.  Of  course  1 
could  not  say  about  that;  I  knew  he  was  familiar  and  apt  in  filling-  up 
these  things;  had  done  a  great  deal  of  it — did  it  all.  I  think  the  idea 
I  had — how  I  got  it  I  can't  tell  to  save  my  life — the  impression,  was  that 
Clarke  knew  it  was  wrOng. 

Q.  The  charge  was  to  that  effect? — A.  Yes,  sir.  I  can't  say  how  that 
impression  got  in  my  mind,  because  I  was  trying-  to  shield  Clarke,  and 
these  others  at  the  same  time. 

Q.  The  result  of  the  indictments  was  that  they  were  nol-prossed,  or 
verdict  by  consent,  and  suspension  of  judgment? — A.  I  don't  know 
about  the  verdict;  probably  a  plea  of  guilty. 

Q.  Or  submission?— A.  AVhat  we  commonly  term  "submission" — a 
formal  plea  of  guilty. 

Q.  Do  you  think  Clarke  submitted — was  that  the  case  with  Mr.  Clarke  ? — 
A.  My  recollection  is  not  distinct;  I  know  in  some  way  we  got  him  oft'. 

Q.  Do  you  not  recollect  that  Clarke  pressed,  urged,  and  insisted  upon 
a  trial  to  such  an  extent  that  the  district  attorney  entered  a  nolle  pros. 
in  his  case  ? — A.  I  was  not  there  at  the  term  the  matter  was  settled. 
I  remember  Clarke  was  anxious  to  press  the  trial.  I  knew  Clarke 
claimed  to  be  innocent,  and  wauted  to  press  the  trial.  I  think  I  was 
not  there  when  the  thing-  was  finally  settled — the  very  day.  My  recol- 
lection is  not  distinct.     I  do  not  pretend  to  say  it  was  not  so. 

Q.  By  urging  the  trial  Clarke  pressed  the  district  attorney  into  a  nolle 
pros.? — A.  I  can't  say  distinctly  about  that;  I  can't  say  it  was  not  so; 
I  think  Clarke  had  several  counsel  in  the  matter. 

The  Chairman.  I  want  to  put  in  some  vouchers  here  as  evidence  in 
relation  to  the  pay  and  services  of  James  H.  Harris,  special  deputy  col- 
lector.    (Marked  Exhibit  19.) 

Here  is  a  number  of  these  vouchers  that  I  want  to  put  in  evidence, 
but  to  prevent  encumbering-  the  record  with  the  usual  formal  and 
printed  parts,  one  of  them  inserted  in  full,  it  seems  to  me,  would  be 
sufiQcient,  and  mention  the  others  as  similar  vouchers,  but  referring  to 
them  by  their  dates,  and  copying  all  itemized  accounts. 

Senator  McDill.  You  said  that  any  of  these  special  reijorts  I 
wanted  to  put  in  we  could  do  so.  Will  you  let  Mr.  Pool  examine  these 
agents'  reports  ? 

The  Chairjnian.  I  called  for  all  the  reports  of  special  agents  that 

were  sent  down  to  investigate  that  district  within  a  certain  period.    I 

selected  just  such  as  would  be  of  service  to  the  part  of  the  investigation 

I  am  conducting,  and  have  put  them  in  evidence,  with  the  privilege  to 

S.  Mis.  116 6 


:82  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Senators  McDill  and  Mitcliell  to  examine  and  put  in  evidence  any  of 
the  others  which  they  tliought  shouhl  go  in,  in  justice  to  the  other  si(h\ 
I  have  here  the  compensation  vouchers  of  General-Storekeeper  H  B. 
Drake,  beginning  in  January,  1870,  and  running  to  date  for  every  month, 
and  every  working  day  in  the  month  during  that  period,  and  I  proi)ose 
just  to  file  one,  and  let  it  be  copied  in  full,  and  then  state  that  the 
others  for  that  period  are  just  like  it,  except  that  the  accounts  vary  in 
amount,  etc. 

Senator  McDill.  I  see  no  objection  to  that. 

(Marked  Exhibit  20.) 

Exhibit  19. 

(Form  63^.— Revised  Sept.  10,  1877.) 

U.  S.  Iiiterual  Reveuue. 

CPrescribed  for  use  May  14,  1874.) 

DEPUTY  collector's  OR  COLLECTOR'S  CLKRK's  MONTHLY  ACCOUXT  FOR  SERVICES. 

(Original  to  accompany  form  44  rendered  to  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue 
monthly.  Duplicate  to  be  tiled  in  office  of  collector.  Every  blank  on  this  page  nec- 
■essary  to  make  the  bill  complete,  except  those  in  the  jurat,  must  be  tilled  out  in  ink 
before  the  bill  is  signed  and  sworn  to  by  the  deputy  collector  or  clerk.) 

James  H.  Harris. 

Collector  of  infernaJ  revenue  6th  district  of  X.  C,  to  James  U.  Harris,  dr. 

Tor  services  rendered  and  expenses  incurred  as  (a)  special  D.  C.  of  the  6tli  district 
of  N.  C.  during  the  period  commencing  Sept.  1st,  1880,  and  ending  Sept.  30th,  1880, 
inclusive: 

Net  salary  1  month  at  the  rate  of  $125  per  nio if  1*2.5 

jExpenses  (c) month  at  the  rate  of  $ per  annum 

Total 1-^^ 

The  services  were  performed  as  (/))  special  deputy  collr.,  6th  N.  C.  dist. 
iKeceived  paj'ment. 

JAMi;S  H.  HARRIS, 

S.  1).  C. 

I'^Tlii.s  table  must  be  tilled  out  in  «// CMsrv.  If  luj  travelling  was  done,  or  oxpen.ses 
tor  travelling  incurred,  it  should  be  so  stated. 


DijH  of  month,  Sept'r . . 

1 

2 
1 

3 

1 

4 
1 

5 

6 

1 

7 

1 

8 
1 

9 

1 

10 
1 

11 
1 

12 

13 
1 

14 

1 

15 
1 

16 

1 

17 

1 

18 

1 

19 

20 

1 

21 
1 

22 

1 

23 

24 

25 
1 

26 

27 
1 

28 

29 

30 

31 

H 

Da,yH     emi>lf>ycd      in 
nirintli  of   Si-pt.,    1880. 
M litis tiiivelliitl  (mti:  note 

C  l»i'li)W)     .(lulls.  I'tS.*. 

A  iiiiMiiit  iixpi'iidcd  (!ach 
<lii\   (Hi-(i  iiolv,   c    he- 
low) (lolls,  cts.*  .. 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

Noiii-  allowed. 


I,  .lamrs  II.  l[:iiris  (>;),  .siM-cial  I).  C.  I'or  ,).  .).  M..tt,  collector  of  the  (llli  district  of 
Ji.  {'.,  do  solemnly  swear  t  hat  I  liii  ve  (ait  li fully  rendered  tlu^  .services  as  above  charged ; 
that  Hucli  Hcrvicc'i  were,  in  my  ()|)inioii,  pioper  and  nece.ssat'y ;  that  the  rate  of  com- 
pcTisal  ion  I  lieicin  slated  is  (he  sairic  jis  agiced  upon  with  tln^  collector,  and  is  just  and 
nruRonable  ;  t  lia(  1  li;i  vc  nol  pjiid,  deposited,  oi-  assigned,  or  conl  iiicted  lo  l)ay,  (hiposit, 
«or   assign,  any  pari   of  such   coinjieii-iat  ion    to    tlie   use  of  the   coUectur  or   any  other 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NOETH    CAROLINA.  83 

person,  in  any  way,  directly  or  indirectly,  or  paid  or  given,  or  contracted  to  pay  or 
give,  any  reward  or  coni])ensation  for  my  office  or  employment,  or  the  emolumentt 
thereof;  and  that  the  above  statement  of  days  employed,  miles  travelled,  and  amouus 
expended  each  day,  is  in  all  respects  true  and  in  exact  accordance  with  the  facts. 
(On  the  margin  :)  Revised  Statutes,  ^  2693. 

I  further  swear  that  during  the  above  period  neither  I  nor  any  member  of  my  fam- 
ily has  received,  either  personally  or  by  the  intervention  of  another  party,  any  money 
or  compensation  of  any  description  whatever,  nor  anj'  promises  for  the  same,  either 
directly  or  indirectly,  for  services  rendered,  or  to  be  rendered,  or  acts  performed,  or  to 
be  performed,  in  connection  with  the  internal  revenue  ;  nor  purchased  for  like  services 
or  acts  from  any  manufacturer,  consignee,  agent,  or  custom-house  broker,  or  other 
person  whatsoever,  any  goods,  wares,  or  merchandise  at  less  than  regular  retail  mar- 
ket price  therefor  :  So  hel})  me  God. 

JAMES  H.  HARRIS, 

S.  D.  C. 
Subscribed  and  sworn  before  me  this  1st  day  of  Oct.,  1880. 

P.  S.  ROSE, 

Dep.  Collr. 
(On  the  margin:)  Revised  Statutes,  ^  1790. 

(fl.)  State  whether  deputy  collector  or  collector's  clerK. 

{h.)  State  the  particular  locality  or  localities  at  which  the  services  were  performed. 

(c. )  Miles  travelled,  or  expenses  incurred,  in  making  surveys  of  distilleries  or  in  at- 
tendance upon  court,  for  which  the  deputy  or  clerk  has  been  specially  reimbursed, 
should  not  be  included  in  the  "miles  travelled  "or  "amount  expended"  reported  on  this 
blank.  Payments  on  account  of  expenses  should  not  be  in  excess  of  the  pro  rata  or  of 
the  amount  actually  expended  for  the  period  commencing  with  the  fiscal  year. 

INTERROGATORIES. 

The  collector  must  neither  pay  the  deputy  collector  or  clerk,  nor  ai)prove  his  bill 
on  this  form,  until  after  the  deputy  or  clerk  has  written  under  each  question  asked 
below  his  answer  thereto,  and  has  also  sworn  to  the  same : 

1.  What  is  your  post-office  address,  town  and  county  ? 
Statesville,  N.  C,  Iredell  Co. 

2.  Are  you  engaged  in  other  business  ;  if  so,  in  what  business  and  how  much  of 
your  time  is  thus  employed  ? 

In  no  other. 

3.  Are  you  in  any  way  interested  in  the  manufacture  or  sale  of  distilled  sjiirits,  fer- 
mented liquors,  or  tobacco  ? 

In  no  way. 

4.  Is  your  alphabetical  list  of  special  tax-payers  written  up  to  the  close  of  the 
month  for  which  this  bill  is  rendered  ? 

I  make  no  lists. 

5.  Have  you  accounted  to  the  collector  of  your  district  for  your  entire  collections  iu 
the  month  for  which  this  bill  is  rendered  ? 

I  render  no  collections. 

6.  Have  you  rendered  to  the  collector  all  the  reports  required  by  law  or  regula- 
tions? 

I  have  rendered  all  reports  required  of  ine. 

7.  Do  your  reports  to  the  collector  (on  Form  102)  of  stamps  sold  each  mouth  also 
show  the  exact  balance  by  denominations  on  hand  at  close  of  each  mouth  ? 

I  make  no.  102's. 

8.  Do  you  make  a  careful  examination  of  the  books  of  brewers  and  rectifiers  when 
you  receive  their  returns  ? 

None. 

9.  Have  you  (as  required  by  regulations)  visited  each  brewery,  distillery,  tobacco 
or  cigar  manufactory  in  your  district  within  the  present  month  to  ascertain  whether 
the  law  and  regulations  are,  in  each  case,  strictly  complied  with  in  all  respects,  in- 
cluding the  mode  of  keeping  the  books?  If  not  all,  state  how  many,  and  the  reason 
the  others  were  omitted. 

I  have  no  division. 

10.  Do  you  verify  by  actual  inspection  the  stock  on  hand,  reported  on  Form  18, 
and  the  claims  for  loss  or  wastage  made  on  said  form  ? 

11.  How  many  distilleries  iu  your  division  ? 

12.  How  many  breweries  in  your  division  ? 

13.  How  many  tobacco  or  cigar  manufactories  in  your  division  ? 

14.  Do  you  know  of  any  internal-revenue  taxes  liable  to  assessment  in  your  divis- 
ion which  have  not  been  assessed  ? 

15.  If  so,  why  have  they  not  been  reported  for  assessment  ? 


84 


COLLECTION    OF    INTEENAL    REVENUE    IN 


I,  James  H.  Harris,"  S.  dep.  coUr.  in  tlieflth  district  of  N.  C,  liereby  solemnly  swear 
tiiat  the  statement  of  worlv  on  the  following  pajje,  and  the  answers  made  by  me  to  the 
above  interrogatories,  are  in  all  respects  correct  and  true. 

JAMES  H.  HARRIS, 

S.  I).  C. 
Subscribed  and  sworn  before  me  this  1st  day  of  Oct.,  1880. 

P.  L.  ROSE, 

Dep.  Col. 

I  have  personally  read  each  of  the  above  answers,  and  believe  tliem  to  Ije  in  all  re- 
spects correct  and  true.     The  collections  in  this  division  during  the  month  for  which 

tins  bill  is  rendered  amounted  to  $ . 

J.  J.  MOTT, 

Collector. 

Itemized  statement  of  duty  performed,  miles  travelled,  and  expenses  incurred. 

[This  page  should  be  a  diary  of  the  official  trausactions  of  the  deputy  or  clerk  for  each  woikiug  day 
iu  the  luoiilh.  There  should  be  an  entry  for  each  day  of  a  brief  and  concise  statement  of  the  duties 
performed,  and  the  manner  in  which  the  time  was  employed  during  that  day,  showing  the  places  vis- 
ited, miles  tiavelled,  and  specific  expenses  incurred,  in  the  proper  columns.  When  travelling,  the  place 
from  which  he  started  and  the  places  visited  should  be  stated  by  the  deputy,  and  he  should,  in  such 
cases,  keep  a  pocket-diary  in  which  to  enter  daily  the  details  required  in  this  monthly  report.) 


Date. 


1880. 
Sept.    1 

3 
4 
G 
7 
8 
9 
10 
11 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
20 
21 

24 
25 
27 
28 
29 
30 


Duties  performed  and  places  visited. 


At  Salisbui'v  ] 

"  ■'  'Policing 

I 
I 

Went  to  Gold  Ilill  and  remained  there. . 
Remained  at  Gold  Hill 

From  Gold  Hill  to  Oakland  '.'.'!"!..'.... 

Keniained  at  "         

From  Oakland  to  Concord 

Remained  at  "         

From  Concord  to  Olin,  N.  C 

"  Olin  to  Bethany 

•'  Bethany  to  Troutman's 

"  Troutnian'a  to  Amity  Hill 

"  Amity  Hill  to  Hart's  Cliiirch  . 

"  Hart's  Church  to  Walhu-e's  Store 

'■  Wallace's  Store  to  .Ino.  Mayhew's 

"  Mayhew's  to  Matins' (irove   

"  Mathis' Grove  fo  Denver 

"  Denver  to  Lewisville 

To  I.incolnlon 

From  Lincolnton  to  Newton 

"  Newton  to  Hickory   


Expenses. 


Total. 


Dulls.   ct8. 


No  mileage  nor  expenses  allowed. 

Service  ]>erformcd  as  Mpe<-ial  deputy  collectoi'  in  the  disehar; 
teuting  frauds  on  int.  rev.  laws  V.  S. 


>f  official  duti(>8  in  exposing  and  de- 


A  similar  voucher  to  fornior,  with  ibllowing  variations:  "Deputy  col- 
lector or  (le])uty  colle(;tors'  (jlerlcs"  inontlily  account  for  services"  i'or  "th& 
1»  'liod  coiMiiieiicing  Nov.  lath,  ISSO,  iiiid  ending;'  Nov.  3()th,  1880,  inclu- 
Mivc,"  '4  month,"  ".fO^.HO,"  v.ith  receipt  ami  allidavit  signed  ".I.  H. 
Harris";  answers  to  "interrogatories"  similar,  with  the  following  excep- 
tions : 

2.  "  In  no  way." 

3.  "I  make  none." 


D<^puty  colhictor  or  chirk,  as  the  case  may  bo. 


Tim    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA, 


85 


4.  "  I  render  none." 

5.  Blank. 

e.       " 

7.  "I  luive  no  distriet." 

S.  "1  make  no  inspections." 

J).  Blank. 

11.  "I  have  no  division." 

Affidavit  to  above  signed  "J.  H.  Harris." 

liemized  stafeineiit  of  diiti/  perform cd,  milcfi  trardled,  (Did  expenses  incurred. 


Duties  ]K-it'oiiiied  and  idacfs  visited. 

1 

Expenses. 

Total. 

Dale. 

1 

"5 

> 
3 

Meals  and 
lodging. 

Dolls. 

Cts. 

18SI). 

At  Charlotte-. 

1 

1 

1 

12 

4 

00 

IG 

17 

18 

li                a 

19 

22 

1  00 

15 

5 

00 

'20 

21 

11                I. 

11                11 

23 

11                11 

1 

24 

22 

1  00 

15 

5 

00 

2.5 

26 

11                11 

27 

11                11 

1 

28 

11                11 

29 
.3U 

' '  Monroe 

89 
92 

3  56 

6 

2 

00 

225 

48 

16 

00 

A  similar  vouclier  to  last. 

Dei)nty  collector's  or  collectors'  clerks'  montlily  account "  for  services" 
witli  following  variations  for  tlie  period  commencing  December  1st, 
1880,  and  ending  31st,  1880,  inclusive,"  "1  month,"  $125.00. 

In  table  "  no  mileage  allowed."     "  No  expenses  allowed." 

Answers  to  "interrogatories,"  &c.,  similar,  except  from  "2"  to  "15," 
inclusive,  written  across,  as  follows:  "I  am  a  special  deputy  collector, 
sixth  district  of  JST.  C." 


Itemized  statement  of  duty  performed,  miles  travelled,  and  expenses  incurred. 


Duties  performed  and  i^laces  visited. 

1 
1 

Expenses. 

Total. 

Date. 

1880. 

1 

S 
> 

3 

c 

o 
P 

5 

Dec.       1 

2 

Policing  from  Statesville  to  Charlotte,  N.  C    

Eemained  in  Charlotte  in  discharge  of  oiticial  duties  .. 

47 

2  00 

1  00 
1.  00 

3 

1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 

4 

11                                              11 



5 

11                                              11 

i 

6 

: 

7 

"                                             " 

1 

1.  00  1        9 

00 

86  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Itemized  siaiement  of  duty  perfot-med,  miles  travelled,  and  expenses  incurnd — Continued. 


Duties  performed  and  places  visited. 

1 

1 

Expenses. 

Total 

Date. 
1880. 

.a 
g 

3 

3 

a 

•a 
1 

a 
a 

"a 

3 

p 

'O 

8 

Left  Charlotte  for  Statesville,  policing  the  line  be- 
tween Cliarlotte  &  Statesville,  N.  C 

47 

2.00 

1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 

3 
2 

00 

g 

oo 

10 

00 

11 

72 

2.90 

90 

12 

00 

13 

00 

14 

11                           11            11          11 

00 

15 

11                           11            11          11 

I.  00 

oo 

16 

' '        from  Dallas  to  King's  Mt'n,  N.  C 

15 

60 

1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
l.Oo 
1.00 
1.00 

60 

17 

00 

]8 

00 

19 

11                      11              11 

00 

20 

11 

45  ! 

45' 

21 

00 

22 

21 

85    

85 

23 

00 

24 

00 

25 

44 

1.75  j 

75 

''G 

OO 

27 

00 

28 

11                    11               11 

00 

29 

U                                        11                              11 

_ 

OO 

30 

11                                             U                                 11 

1 

00 

31 

25 

1.00  1 

00 

2.82  111.55  1 31.00 

1        1       i 

42 

55. 

A  similar  vouclier  to  last. 

"  Deputy  collector,  or  collectors'  clerks'  monthly  account  for  services,'^ 
"witli  following  variations  :  for  "the  period  commencing- January  1,1881^ 
and  ending  Jan'3"  31,  1881,  inclusive";  "  amount  expended  each  day"  in 
table,  "averaged  at  $1.00  per  day,  $31.00";  "miles  travelled"  in  table, 
carried  out  "  282." 

No  "interrogatories"  attached. 

No  "itemized  statement  of  duty  performed,  miles  travelled,  and  ex- 
penses incurred"  accom])auying. 

A  similar  vouclier  to  last. 

"  I)iii)uty  col  lectors'  or  collectors'  clerks'  monthly  account  for  serv- 
ices," with  following  variations:  For  "  th(>  i)eriod  commencing  Feb'v  1st, 
1881,  and  ending  Feli'y  28,  1881,  inclusive." 

In  table,  "no  mileage  allowed";  "no  expenses  allowed." 

Answers  to  "interrogatories"  similar  to  last,  except — 

"2."  "In  no  other  business." 

"3."  "In  noway." 

*'4-lo."  Written  across:  "1  am  ('iiii)loyed  as  special  deputj^  collector 
in  (Jtli  (list.  N.  C.  in  detecting  Ovo  suppressing  frauds  in  int.  revenue  of 
the  IJ.  vS." 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  87 

Itemhed  statement  of  duty  performed,  mllen  traiieUed,  and  exx)enfie»  ineurred. 


Date. 


1881. 
Feby,    4 
5 
6 


9 
10 
11 
12 
13 

14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 


Duties  performed  and  places  visited. 


28 


At  Statesville 

PolicinR-  from  Statesville  to  Charlotte,  N.  C 

Keuiaiued  iu  &  around  Charlotte  in  disebarjieof  otKcial 
'luty -. - 

Absent  in  obedience  to  summons  to  attend  superior 
court  as  State's  witness 

Returned  to  Salisbury 

More  discoveries  as  reported  to  headquarters 

Policing  from  Salisbury  to  Statesville 

Policing  from  Statesville  to  Charlotte - 

Eeniained  in  &  around  Charlotte  in  discharge  of  official 
duty 


Expenses. 


gbi) 


^° 


Total. 


ExiiiiUT  20. 

(107— Revised.) 

storekeeper's  monthly  account. 

(Oriyinal.) 

The  United  States  {Office  of  Internal  Eevenue)  dr.  to  E.  B.  Drale. 

P.  O.  adilress  :  

Dols.  Cts.. 
For  ser^ice,s  us  storelvceper  iu  the  6tli  collection  district  of  tlie  State  of  N.  C. 

duriug  the  muiith  of  January,  1876,  26  days,  at  $b  per  day 130  OO 

statement. 

(This  stateuieut  must  indicate  the  date  of  each  day  of  seryice.) 


Days  of  month. 

1 
1 

2 
S 

3 
1 

4 

1 

5 
1 

6 
1 

7 
1 

8   9 

1 

1    S 

1 

10 

1 

11 
1 

12 
1 

13 
1 

14 

1 

15 
1 

16 

S 

17 

1 

18 

1 

19 

1 

20 

1 

21 

1 

22 

1 

23 

S 

24 

1 

25  26  27 
111 

28 

1 

29  30 

31 

d 

Days    and    parts   of 
days  employed 

1    S 

1 

Salary,  cue  hundred  and  thirty  dollars. 

I  hereby  certify  and  nialie  oath  that  the  above  account  is  for  services  in  my  officiar 
capacity  as  storekeeper,  under  the  internal  revenue  law  of  the  United  States ;  that 


88 


COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 


the  services  have  been  actually  reudei-ed  as  charged  ;  and  tLat  the  account  is  in  all 
respects  just  and  correct;  that  I  have  received  the  full  sum  therein  charged  to  my 
own  use  and  benefit,  and  that  I  have  not  paid,  deposited,  or  assigned,  nor  contracted 
to  pay,  deposit,  or  assign,  any  part  of  such  compensation,  to  the  use  of  any  other  per- 
son, nor  in  any  way,  directly  or  indirectly,  y)aid  or  given,  nor  contracted  to  pay  or 
give,  any  reward  or  comijeusation  for  my  office  or  employment,  or  the  emoluments 
thereof. 

I  further  swear  that,  during  the  above  period,  neither  I  nor  any  member  of  my  fam- 
ily has  received,  either  personally  or  by  the  intervention  of  another  party,  any  money 
or  compensation  of  any  description  whatever,  nor  any  promises  for  the  same,  either 
directly  or  indirectly,  for  services  rendered  or  to  be  rendered,  or  acts  performed  or  to 
be  performed,  in  connection  with  the  internal  revenue;  norpurchased  for  like  services 
or  acts,  from  any  manufacturer,  consignee,  agent,  or  custom-house  broker,  or  other 
person  whomsoever,  any  goods,  wares,  or  merchandise,  at  less  than  regular  retail 
market  prices  therefor  :  So  help  me,  God. 

(On  the  margin  :)  Revised  Stats.,  §  1790. 

Dated  at  Statesville,  this  2  dav  of  Feb'v,  1876. 

E.  B.  DRAKE, 

Storekeeprr. 

Subscribed  and  sworn  to  before  me. 

WM.  J.  COITE,  De^j'iy  CoWt: 

ITiereby  certify  that  I  have  examined  the  above  account;  that  the  above-named 
storekeeper  was  necessarily  employed  each  of  the  days  charged  for;  and  that  the  ac- 
count, in  all  other  respects,  is  correct  and  in  accordance  with  the  law. 

J.  J.  MOTT, 
Collector  6th  District,  State  o/ N.' C. 

Received  of  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  and  disbursing  agent  of  the  6th  district  of  No. 
Ca.,  the  sum  of  one  huodred  &  thirty  nru  dollars,  in  full  payment  of  the  above  ac- 
count. 

Dated  at  Statesville,  this  2  day  of  Feb'y,  1876. 

E.  B.  DRAKE, 

Storekeeper. 

Tlie  otlier  voiicliers,  scheduled  as  follows,  are  similar  to  tlie  i'oiego- 
ing,  except  the  variations  noted  below. 


No.  of 
acc't. 


11921a 
12303a 
12f35a 
12834a 
13197a 
13290a 
13.'-.91a 
13H32a 
14102a 
14247a 
14.')73a 


No.  of 
vou. 


Kame. 


Month. 


B.  Drake '  January,    1876 . 

I'cbriiary,     "  . 

March,  '        "  . 

Ajji'il,             "  . 

May,              "  . 

June,             "  . 

July,              "  . 

Auii'ust,         "  . 

St'])lcinboi-,   "  . 

October,         "  . 

Novc7nber,    "  . 

December,    "  . 
Jaiuiary,    1877. 

February,     "  . 

Marcli,           "  . 
April, 

May,              "  . 

June,            "  . 

July,              "  . 

Au;;ust,         "  . 

Se)ileniber,   "  . 

October,         "  . 

November,   "  . 

Dc<'eniber,    "  . 
January,     1878. 

Februaiv,     "  . 

March,  "        '•  . 

A])ril,            "  . 

May,              "  . 

ifune,              "  . 

July,              "  . 

Au;:ust,         "  . 

Seiitembei',   "  . 


Am't. 


130 
125 
135 
125 
135 
130 
130 
120 
104 
104 
104 
104 
108 

90 
108 
lOU 
108 
104 
104 
108 
100 
108 
104 
104 
108 

!)(> 
104 
104 
108 
100 
108 
108 
100 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA, 


89 


No.  of 

No.  of 

acc't. 

vou. 

H809a 

38 

38 

" 

62 

15026a 

72 

" 

69 

" 

120 

ir)205a 

127 

127 

" 

95 

l;)489(i 

80 

" 

67 

" 

23 

15722« 

35 

39  i 

" 

46  1 

159."i7«. 

43 

" 

45  1 

" 

46 

lemort 

44 

49 

lG729a 

44  ' 

icri77« 

38 

" 

34  i 

" 

40 

lCG29a 

41 

" 

46 

" 

47 

16941a 

48 

■' 

55 

" 

55 

17163rt 

54 

47 

'■ 

44 

17iGl« 

37 

" 

20 

19 

17473a 

27 

28 

" 

37 

17(169(1 

34 

25 

29 

Name. 


E.  B.  Dralic . 


Month. 


October,      1878 

Novi'iubcr,  " 

December,  ' ' 
January,    1879 

February,  '' 
March, 

April,  " 

May,  ' ' 

June,  " 

July,  " 

August,  " 

September,  " 

Octobei',  ' ' 

Kovember,  " 

December,  ' ' 
January,     1880 

February,  " 

March,  " 

April,  " 
May, 

June,  " 
July, 

August,  " 

September,  " 

October,  " 

November,  ' ' 

December,  " 
January,     1881 
Febiiiary, 

March,  " 

April,  " 
May, 

June,  " 
July, 

August,  " 

September,  " 
October, 

November,  " 

December,  " 
January,     1882 

Febiuary,  ' ' 

March,  " 


Am't. 


108 
l04 
104 
]()8 

96 
104 
104 
108 
100 
108 
104 
104 
108 
100 
108 
108 

96 
108 
104 
104 
104 
108 
104 
104 
104 
104 
108 
104 

96 
108 
104 
104 

68 
104 
108 
104 
104 
104 
108 
104 

96 
108 


Yoncber  for  Jaiinary,  187G,  E.  B.  Drake  acting  as  "  storekeeper." 

Vouchers  from  February,  187G,  to  March  1877,  hu'lusive,  affidavit 
signed  as  "  general  storekeeper." 

Vouchers  from  April,  1877,  to  September,  1878,  inclusive,  affidavit 
signed  as  "general  storekeeper  and  ganger." 

Vouchers  from  Oct.,  1878,  to  Mar.,  1882,  inclusive,  affidavit  signed  as 
"  storekeeper  and  ganger." 

Committee  adjourned  until  Saturday,  June  21,  at  10  a.  m. 


Washington,  T>.  C,  ^Saturday,  June  21,  1882. 
The  committee  met  at  10  a.  m.     There  being  no  witnesses  ready  to 
testify,  an  adjournment  was  ordered  until  Monday,  June  26. 


Washington,  D.  C,  Ju)ie  26,  1882. 
The  committee  met  at  2  p.  m. 
J.  iST.  Summers  sworn  and  examined : 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Question.  Where  do  you  reside? — Answer.  T  live  twelve  miles  above 
Statesville,  N.  C. 


90  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Were  you  ever  in  tlie  service  of  the  luterual  Revenue  Department  ? 
— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  lu  what  capacity"? — A.  Tliree-aiul-a-Lalf  bushel  capacity  was  the 
distillery  I  staid  at. 

Q.  Were  you  a  storekeeper  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long-  were  you  in  the  service  ? — A.  I  was  in  about  two  years, 
or  a  little  better. 

Q.  From  when  to  when  ?— A.  I  commenced  in  March,  '71»,  I  believe — 
the  4th  of  March,  the  first  I  did. 

Q.  State  what  distilleries  you  were  at,  and  in  their  order. — A.  I  was 
with  J.  Bowles  &  Son,  and  Q.  D.  Freeze's. 

Q.  Only  those  two? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  the  storekeepers  dividing  their  pay 
with  distillers? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  divide  yours  with  any  of  the  distillers? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Were  you  asked  to? — A.  No,  sir;  I  don't  know  that  I  w^as. 

Q.  What  was  said  to  you  on  the  subject? — A.  I  don't  know  that  ever 
anything  particular  was  said  about  it — any  way  to  me. 

Q.  Nothing  whatever  that  you  can  remember? — A.  About  all  I  ever 
did  hear  said  that  looked  like  that  was,  that  I  ought  to  divide,  because 
they  were  not  making  anything  at  the  distillery. 

Q.  Who  said  that? — A.  Mr.  Bowles  said  that  to  me. 

Q.  You  ought  to  divide? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Because  he  was  not  making  anything;  the  distillery  was  a  small 
one — three  and  a  half  bushels'? — A.  Yes,  sir;  about  all  he  ever  said  to 
me. 

Q.  What  were  they  selling  whisky  at?— A.  From-  $1.20  to  $1.30,  I 
think,  while  I  was  there;  generally  retailed  some  at  an  average  of  about 
81.60  a  gallon  retail. 

Q.  With  wiiom  did  you  board  ? — A.  I  boarded  at  home. 

Q.  You  did  not  board  with  the  distiller  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Were  you  ever  called  upon  to  pay  any  political  contributions  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  IIow  much? — A.  Never  no  certain  amount  named  to  me  when  it 
was  called  for. 

Q.  Who  called  on  you  for  it? — A.  It  seems  to  me  that  Mr.  Coite  said 
I  ouglit  to  help  to  pay  some  money  about  campaign  purjioses;  it  ap- 
liears  to  me  like  it  was  him  or  Colonel  Sharpe. 

Q.  Who  is  Mr.  Coite? — A.  lie  staid  there  in  the  office. 

Q.  In  what  capacity? — A.  Collector,  I  believe. 

Q.  Did  Dr.  Mott  ever  say  anything  to  you  about  it  himself? — A.  No, 
sir;  I  don't  believe  he  ever  said  a  word  to  me  about  paying  anything 
t\)V  that  purpose. 

Q.  Vou  made  an  affidavit  before  A.  D.  Cowles,  dei^uty  clerk,  did  you 
not  ? — A.  Yes,  sir, 

(^.  Are  the  contents  of  that  affidavit  true? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  In  it  you  say  you  asked  Dr.  JNFott  lor  your  (;h<'ck,  who  told  you 
''  that  the  election  was  coming  on  and  he  would  have  to  call  on  the  boys 
to  help  him  a  little"? — A.  I  asked  him  for  the  check  which  was  held 
back  ;  he  s<'nt  me  to  Mr.  Gillespie  about  it — to  go  to  him  and  see  for 
wlijif  the  check  was  held  bacjk. 

il  What  cheek  did  you  ask  for?— A.  Either  March  or  May,  1880; 
not  certain  wliieh  of  the  months  it  was  foi". 

(^.  What  tinu^  was  thai,  when  you  asked  him  for  your  check? — A.  It 
was  soiM<',  liMMi  after  it  was  <lu«v,  g«uierally  we  got  the  checks  about  the 
lOMi  (»r  I  lie  moil  til,  after  the  work  was  done. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  91 

Q.  You  say  lie  told  you  tliat  Gillespie  had  your  check  ? — A.  To  go  to 
Gillesi)ie  and  see  what  it  was  hel<l  back  for. 

Q.  You  think  that  was  in  April  ? — A.  It  was  some  time  after  the  check 
was  due.  I  don't  recollect  just  exactly  the  time.  I  ouj^ht  to  have  it  if 
I  was  ji'oiiig  to  get  it. 

Q.  You  went  to  Gillespie,  did  you  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  did  you  say  to  him? — A.  I  asked  him — told  him — I  wanted 
my  check ;  why  was  it  held  back  !  He  said  he  was  going  to  hold  it 
back  until  I  told  him  what  became  of  some  whisky  that  had  gone  out 
of  two  barrels  up  there.  They  had  been  up  there  and  made  a  regauge. 
Some  small  i^ackages,  two,  were  placed  back  under  some  large  barrels, 
where  they  were  i)iled  n^)  four  deep.  They  had  been  there  ten  months, 
and  could  not  get  at  them  without  taking  the  barrels  out  of  the  house. 
When  he  took  out  the  whisky  to  make  a  regauge  he  stated  the  barrels 
were  not  fit  to  put  whisky  in,  it  leaked  out  so.  The  heads  were  nmde 
out  of  sap  poplar,  and  the  whisky  seeped  through.  He  said  it  might 
as  well  be  reported  to  the  office  to  take  those  two  barrels  out. 

Q.  That  satisfied  him  about  the  whisky,  did  it? — A.  I  told  him 
what  he  had  said  about  that.  He  told  me  I  could  not  get  it  then.  I 
told  him  I  wanted  it.  I  then  saw  Mr.  Coite  or  Dr.  Mott  about  the 
check.     One  or  the  other  I  asked  about  it ;  not  certain  which  it  was. 

Q.  What  w^ere  you  told  ?— A.  He  said  I  ought  to  help  a  little  for  cam- 
paign purposes,  throw  in  a  little;  I  said  I  was  willing  to  throw  in  as 
much  as  any  j)ersou  else;  they  said  the  rest  of  them  was  throwing  in 
about  what  they  kept_back  from  me,  and  I  did  not  want  to  be  behind  the 
rest. 

Q.  How  much  was  the  amount  of  the  check  then  due  ? — A.  $108. 

Q.  Did  you  indorse  the  check  to  them  ? — A.  Some  time  after  that  Gil- 
lespie met  me  down  in  the  St.  Charles  Hotel,  in  Statesville,  with  a  piece 
of  paper  about  the  size  of  a  check  ;  it  did  not  say  anything  on  it ;  he  had 
a  pen  and  ink,  and  says,  "I  want  you  to  sign  this."  I  wanted  to  know 
what  it  was  for.  He  says,  "  You  sign  this  for  campaign  purposes  and 
you  will  get  work  to  do."     Just  the  words  he  told  me. 

Q.  "  Sign  this  and  you  will  get  work  to  do."  Were  you  then  out  of 
work,  without  an  assignment  ? — A.  1  believe  the  distillery  was  under 
suspension  at  that  time. 

Q.  You  had  no  work ? — A.  ISTo,  sir;  it  appears  to  me  the  distilU^ry 
was  under  suspension  then. 

Q.  The  paper  you  signed  turned  out  to  be  the  check  for  your  month's 
pay  ? — A.  That  is  what  1  found  out  afterwards. 

Q.  Did  you  understand  from  the  conversation  that  if  you  did  not  sign 
the  check,  jjerhaps  you  would  not  get  work  to  do  ? — A.  1  did.  I  took  it 
for  granted,  right  there,  that  if  I  did  not  sign  I  would  not  get  work 
to  do. 

Q.  Mr.  Gillespie  was  the  man  whom  Dr.  Mott  referred  you  to  to  see 
why  the  check  was  held  back? — A.  Yes,  sir.     Some  time  before  that. 

Q.  During  that  fiscal  year,  what  jiroportion  of  the  time  did  you  have 
work  ? — A.  1  had  work  pretty  much  all  the  time.  1  staid  at  ^Mr.  Bowles' 
near  two  years.  The  distillery  was  under  suspension  two  or  three  weeks 
at  a  time — not  longer  than  a  month  at  the  longest.  I  think  under  sus- 
pension three  times. 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  how  much  money  you  drew  for  the  whole  year  ? — 
A.  No,  sir;  I  don't. 

Q.  Have  you  an  idea  what  proportion  of  your  salary  this  $10S  would 
be? — A.  No,  sir.     Never  looked  that  far. 

Q.  If  you  had  gotten  work  every  day,  in  every  month  during  the  year^ 


92  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

it  would  liave  been  one  twelfth,  would  it  not? — A.  Yes,  sir.  I  reckon 
it  would. 

Q.  And  of  course  the  percentage  would  be  greater  if  your  pay  were 
less.  Were  you  called  upon  for  other  contributions  ? — A.  I  paid  one  per 
cent,  a  month  for  office  expenses  on  every  dollar  I  drew. 

Q.  How  long-  were  you  paying-  that! — A.  I  believe  it  was  in  1879  I 
commenced  paying,  and  paid  in  until  1881. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anythiug  of  a  letter  sent  from  the  Commissioner's 
office  in  this  city,  to  storekeepers  and  gangers,  inquiring  about  this 
money,  contributed  for  office  expenses? — A.  Mr.  H.  X.  Dwire. 

Q.  What  office  did  he  hold  ? — A.  He  was  deputy,  I  suppose;  he  was 
the  one  that  issued  stami)s,  and  always  filled  out  the  stamps.  He  was 
there  and  told  me  he  wanted  me  to  come  into  the  office.  I  went  up  there. 
He  said  here  is  a  letter  to  copy;  he  wrote  a  letter  there  for  me  to  copy 
oft".  He  gave  it  to  me;  it  was  for  me  to  state  to  the  Commissioner  of 
Internal  Eevenue  tiiat  I  had  not  paid  in  more  than  three  or  four  dollars 
for  campaign  irarposes. 

Q.  For  office  expenses  ? — A.  For  campaign  purposes. 

Q.  He  had  prejiared  a  letter  for  you  to  send  to  the  Commissioner,  to 
that  effect  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  he  had. 

Q.  Did  you  send  it? — A.  He  told  me  to  take  it  and  copy  it  off  and 
return  the  copy.     I  returned  it  to  G.  W.  Sharpe. 

Q.  Did  Bowles  have  more  than  one  distillery? — A.  jSTo,  sir;  at  first 
it  was  Bowles  &  Son,  and  the  son  did  not  like  it,  and  told  him  he  did 
not  want  to  help  run  it  any  longer.  They  stopped  it  and  started  in  his 
father's  name — droi)ped  the  son's  name. 

Q.  Was  there  any  other  distillery  except  that  one,  in  the  name  of 
Bowles? — A.  I  declare  I  don't  know  whether  there  was  or  not. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  the  multiplication  of  stills  down 
there — making  three  or  four  small  ones  out  of  a  large  one? — A.  No,  sir; 
I  don't  belie \e  I  do. 

Q.  How  long  did  you  store-keep  for  Freeze? — A.  I  went  there  the  6th 
of  April  and  staid  there  until  the  last  day  of  Jnne — I  believe  it  was — 
in  1881. 

Q.  Were  yon  there  when  the  fuss  was  ihade  and  the  distillery 
seized? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Were  you  storekeeping  for  him  then  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  It  was  under  suspension  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  Had  you  been  storekee])er  forhim  previous  to  that  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir; 
I  w<']it  there  in  April  and  left  the  last  of  .luue;  that  was  two  or  three 
moiitlis  before  tluit  seizure  was  made. 

Q.  Did  you  have  the  keys  ? — A.  No,  sir.  I  delivered  up  the  keys,  the 
l)apers,  and  tlie  books  the  very  day  the  distillery  stopped — the  next 
morning. 

(i.  To  whom  ?— A.  To  the  office,  to  Mr.  Colyer;  Dr.  Mott's  office. 

Q.  Who  should  have  had  that  key? — A.  I  don't  know.  I  never  saw 
tlie  key  aftei'wards. 

Q.  Whose  business  is  it  to  carry  the  key  of  a  distillery  that  lias  sus- 
j)end(Ml  ? — A.  The  general  stoi('keei»er's  ii'  taken  out  of  the  office,  I  sup- 
pose. 

Cro88-exaMiin;ili(»n  by  Mr.  INtOL: 

().  You  spoke  jnst  now  abont  a  distilU'iy  being  under susi)eiision;  do 
you  recolh'ct  the  exact  date? — A.  No,  sir;  I  don't.  1  did  not  think  there 
woidd  be  any  hereafter  abont  it. 

(}.  Are  you  sure  the  distilleiy  was  under  suspension  at  the  time  you 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  93^ 

were  asked  to  indorse  this  draft,  of  which  you  spoke  ? — A.  I  think  it 
was;  it  ai)pears  to  me  it  was  then,  under  suspension.  I  will  not  be  posi- 
tive about  it. 

Q.  In  order  to  i)ut  you  to  work,  if  that  distillery  was  under  suspen- 
sion, they  had  to  send  you  to  another  ? — A.   \  suppose  so. 

Q.  Were  you  ever  sent  to  another  ? — A.  I  have  said  I  went  to  Mr. 
Freeze's. 

Q.  That  was  in  1881  ?— A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  We  are  talking  about  1880,  the  year  before.  Was  this  other  distil- 
lery under  suspension  when  you  were  sent  to  Freeze's? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  How  long-  was  tlie  longest  time  that  distillery  was  under  suspen- 
sion at  any  one  time  ? — A.    It  appears  like  a  mouth. 

Q.  At  one  time! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  that  the  aggregate  of  your  pay  for  the  two  years 
was  about  $2,400? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  suppose  it  was;  if  the  distillery  had 
not  suspended  ;  if  I  had  had  work  regularly  all  the  year  round. 

Q.  Did  you  not  receive  $2,400  ? — A.  I  received  all  but  this  check,  ex- 
cept what  I  paid  in  for  oftice  expenses. 

Q.  How  nuich  did  you  pay  in  for  oftice  expenses  altogether  ?  — A.  I 
don't  know ;  I  think  I  paid  for  about  fourteen  months — somewhere  along 
there. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  ])aid  more  than  $5  all  told  ? — A.  I  geiierallv  paid 
from  $1  to  $1.0r),  $1.10,  and  $1.25,  if  they  could  not  make  change.  ^  Was 
not  anyways  particular  about  it. 

Mr.  Pool  (to  the  chairman).  I  would  like  to  see  the  reports  on  this 
subject. 

(Special  report  handed  to  counsel.) 

Q.  (To  Witness.)  I  have  here  before  me  a  ])aper  which  is  an  account 
upon  this  subject  of  ])aying  oftice  expenses  in  an  investigation  instituted 
by  the  Internal  Revenue  Bureau,  in  which  it  is  stated  by  Mr.  Dwire  that 
the  amount  ])aid  by  you  was  $3.20. — A.  Three  dollars  and  twenty  cents 
fo.i  oftice  expenses  ? 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  I  don't  see  how  lie  could  make  it  that,  for  I  i^aid  in 
there  from  the  date  of  this  letter,  which  was  sent  me  from  the  office. 
(Examining  a  letter.)  From  Sei)tember  1,  1879, 1  i)aid  from  $L  to  $1.25 
every  month  I  got  work  to  do;  from  that  on  until  in  1881,  either  April 
or  May,  I  am  not  positive  which.  It  looks  to  nu^  a  little  more  than  that. 
Here  is  the  letter  sent  to  me  from  the  office.   (Handing  to  Chairman.) 

The  OHAiiniAN.  I  want  that  letter  to  go  in  evidence  as  apart  of  Mr. 
Summers'  testimony. 

(Marked  Exhibit'21.) 

Internal  Revkxue  Office, 
Stati'srille,  N.  C,  September  1st,  1679. 
Sir:  Tliere  are  otilice  expenses  for  wliicli  no  allow.Tuce  lias  been  made  Ijy  the  gov* 
ernnient,  and  as  it  is  not  right  that  some  otitices  should  paj^  all  and  others  none,  I  have 
thought  proper  to  e(jualize  them. 

I  consider  tliat  one  per  cent,  of  your  monthly  salary  is  a  reasonable  assessment.. 
Please  therefore,  at  once,  upon  receipt  of  your  pay  each  month,  forward  to  this  office 
the  amount  due  from  you  as  above  specified. 

An  account  of  receipts  and  expenditures  under  this  fund  is  kept  at  the  office  for  in- 
spection by  all  concerned. 
Respectfully, 

J.  J.  MOTT,   Collector. 

The  Witness.  I  paid  in  from  the  date  of  that  letter  until  '81,  either 
April  or  May.  After  I  went  to  Freeze's  distillery,  I  paid  the  last.  I  am 
certain  of  that. 


94  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  I  liave  before  me  the  affidavit  of  H.  X.  Dwire,  who  made  tliat  re- 
port from  wliicb  I  have  just  now  read,  stating  that  you  i)aid  $3.-!0,  in 
which  Mr.  Dwire  says:  "  I  recollect  when  I  told  Mr.  Summers  the  amount 
Le  had  contributed,  he  said  it  was  about  correct." — A.  I  paid  in  from 
the  date  of  that  letter  until  '81,  as  soon  as  I  got  work  to  do. 

(To  the  chairman.)  I  would  like  this  affidavit  to  go  in  evidence. 

(Marked  Exhibit  22.) 

Winston,  N.  C,  January  26,  1882. 
Dr.  J.  J.  MOTT, 

JVashington,  D.  C. : 
Sir  :  lu  auswer  to  yonrs,  relative  to  the  affidavit  of  J.  N.  Summers,  I  liave  to  say  I  do 
not  recollect  about  writing  to  Mr.  Summers,  but  I  think  perhaps  I  did  write  him,  as 
lie  had  called  a  time  or  two  at  the  office  to  know  whether  he  had  paid  his  assessments 
to  date.  I  know  he  oflPered  to  pay  a  time  or  two,  and  I  told  him  to  hold  on  as  the  ac- 
count had  not  been  made  out  and  no  money  was  needed  at  the  time ;  and  if  I  wrote  it 
was  to  enable  him  to  report  correctly  in  making  his  statement  to  Hon.  Commissioner. 
I  recollect  when  I  told  Mi\  Summers  the  amount  he  had  contributed,  he  said  it  was 
iibout  correct.  I  do  remember  that  very  few  paid  over  ten  dollars,  and  many  only  two 
or  three  dollars,  and  large  number  paid  nothing  at  all ;  in  fact,  were  never  notified 
or  requested  to  pay  anything.  If  Mr.  Summers  had  paid  one  per  cent,  for  the  whole 
amount  he  received  he  could  not  have  paid  over,  say  from  $5.00  to  $8.00  for  time  he 
Avas  employed.  If  he  had  paid  regularly,  why  should  he  have  to  inquire  whether  he 
had  paid  to  date  his  assessments? 
Very  resi>ectfully, 

H.  X.  DWIRE. 
■Suhscribed  and  sworn  to  before  me, 

JAMES  MARTIN, 

Special  Dejmty  CoWr. 

Q.  I  have  before  me,  in  this  executive  document,  what  seems  to  be 
ii  certificate  from  yourself  (quoting) : 

Sweet  Bomk,  TredeU  Co.,  X.  C. 
This  is  to  certify  that  I  subscribed  to  the  campaign  fund  of  the  Republican  State 
executive  committee  of  North  Carolina,  during  the  State  and  national  campaign  of 
1880,  through  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott,  the  sum  of  $104.00  dollars,  the  same  being  a  check  for  my 
salary  as  storekeeper  and  ganger  for  the  month  of  September,  1880,  and  that  the  same 
was  freely  and  cheerfully  given,  and  would  be  again  under  like  circumstances. 
This  2r)>h  day  of  April,  1881. 
IJespectfullv, 

J.  N.  SUMMERS, 

Stk.  rf-  Gr. 

A.  That  is  the  way  that  I  had  to  answer  the  Commissioner,  that  it  was 
•only  three  or  four  dollars  for  campaign  i)urposes. 

Q.  Did  you  sign  that  certificate  ? — A.  I  had  to  do  it. 

().  ])id  it  contain  the  truth? — A.  He  said  that  was  all  that  was  used 
out  of  it;  they  kept  the  money  back;  said  that  was  all  that  was  used 
foi'  campaign  puri)oses. 

Q.  AVhat,  the  .$104 ?l— A.  The  three  or  four  dollars;  they  kept  the 
check  back;  the  campaign  was  over. 

(}.  You  say  they  asked  you  to  sign  a  letter  that  you  paid  but  three 
or  lour  dollars  for  cam])aign  pur])oses  ? — A.  Yes,  sir,  they  did. 

(}.  J>id  you  sign  such  a  letter  ? — A.  I  told  him  if  that  was  all  I  was 
willing  to  sign  it. 

(}.  1  )id  you  sign  it  ? — A.  I  signed  it,  and  wanted  the  rest  of  what  they 
h:i(l  left,  if  llicy  did  not  use  but  three  or  four  dolhirs  of  that  check. 

().  ]>ul  this  says  >!l()l  .' — A.  if  tlu'V  used  it  for  that  ])urpose  I  was 
willing  for  it  ;ill  logo  there;  bul  tins  let  (cr  came  from  the  Commissioner 
wanting  ns  to  state  liow  mucli  w(»  liad  paid  in.  And  he  wanted  me  to 
.stat<i  to  liim  tliat  it  was  only  tliree  or  foui'  dollars  that  I  ])aid. 

(^.  Are  you  not  mixing  up  what  you  paid  for  campaign  purposes  and 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  95 

what  you  paid  for  office  expenses  ? — A.  ^o,  sir,  I  am  not.    That  is  what 
I  understood  it  to  be  sif>ne<l  for. 

Q.  Suppose  you  read  tluit  yourself  (handing  eertifleate  to  witness)  and 
tell  me  if  it  is  a  correct  statement? — A.  I  told  him  if  they  kept  it  for 
campaign  purposes  I  was  willing  for  it  to  be  used  that  way. 

Q.  I  ask  you  if  that  certificate  of  yours  contiwns  the  truth? — A.  It 
does;  just  what  I  done  for  campaign  purposes. 

Q.  There  is  no  falsehood  in  that  certificate  at  all  ? — A.  Then  the  next 
thing  they  wanted  me  to  sign  was  a  letter  that  I  had  ijaid  in  only  three 
or  four  dollars — to  be  sent  to  the  Commissioner. 

Q.  I  observe  this  certificate  is  dated  the  2oth  of  April,  1S81.  I  think 
you  made  this  contribution  in  1880.  Now  tell  me  whether  this  certificate 
I  have  read  contains  the  truth. — A.  If  they  used  it  for  campaign  pur- 
poses it  does.  And  then  when  I  had  to  sign  it,  in  this  letter  they  wanted 
to  go  to  the  Commissioner  they  wanted  nie  to  say  I  only  paid  three  or 
four  dollars  for  campaign  purposes.  Then  I  wanted  to  know  where 
the  balance  of  the  money  was  that  was  kept  back. 

Q.  Did  you  sign  such  a  letter  and  send  it  to  the  Commissioner? — A. 
I  did. 

Q.  When? — A.  Some  time  after  that  was  signed  for  the  $104.  Then 
I  asked  him  what  became  of  the  balance  of  the  money. 

Q.  Some  time  after  you  gave  this  certificate  ? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  they  said 
only  that  much  was  used  for  campaign  purposes.  I  wanted  to  know 
where  the  rest  of  the  money  was. 

Q,  Did  you  receive  a  letter  from  the  Commissioner  ? — A.  I  did  not  get 
it  from  the  Commissioner,  but  W.  C.  Morrison  got  one,  and  that  was  the 
way,  they  said,  to  answer  it. 

Q.   AYhen  was  that;  how  long  ago? — A.  Along  about  in '81,  Ireckon. 

Q.  What  was  in  the  letter?— 4.  I  did  not  read  the  letter.  Billy  Mor- 
rison said  he  had  it;  he  (Dwire)  wrote  it  there  in  the  of&ce  and  gave 
me  the  letter  there  to  copy  oft",  stating  I  only  paid  in  three  or  four  dol- 
lars for  campaign  purposes — this  letter  that  Dwire  gave  me. 

Q.  Did  you  see  the  letter  ? — A.  I  did  not  see  the  one  that  came  from 
the  Commissioner,  but  saw  the  one  Dwire  gave  me  to  copy  off. 

Q.  To  whom  was  it  addressed? — A.  G.  W.  Sharpe  wrote  it  to  me,  if 
any  one  up  in  my  neighborhood — any  storekeeper — got  a  letter  to  that 
effect,  to  tell  them  to  answer  the  way  Dwire  told  me  to  answer  that. 

Q.  Was  that  not  about  the  incidental  office  expenses? — A.  No,  sir;  it 
was  not;  it  was  not  the  way  it  was  brought  to  me. 

Q.  Don't  you  know  that  Dwire  had  gone  away  from  there  before 
1880;  had  nothing  on  earth  to  do  with  this  campaign  fund  in  1880? — A. 
H.  X.  Dwire  had  left  the  oftice  before  the  campaign  of  1880? 

Q.  Yes. — A.  He  was  doing  business  there  in  the  office  all  the  time  I 
was  in  the  revenue  service,  for  he  was  there  when  I  acted  as  store- 
keeper at  Freeze's  distillery.  He  was  right  there.  Mr.  Glenn  came  in 
imd  took  his  place  afterwards. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  again  whether  this  certificate  of  yours,  dated  on  the 
25th  of  April,  1881,  is  the  truth? — A.  What,  about  the  three  dollars  and 
something  that  was  paid  in  ? 

Q.  No,  sir;  you  certified  on  the  25th  of  April  that  you  subscribed  to 
the  campaign  fund  of  the  Kepublican  State  executive  committee  in  Sep- 
tember, 1880,  in  the  certificate  you  read  just  now. — A.  I  signed  that 
certificate,  and  then  after  the  election  was  over,  when  the  Commissioner 
w^rote  about  this,  aiul  wanted  to  know  how  nuich  the  officers  had  paid 
for  campaign  jMirjioses,  Mr.  Dwire  gave  me  this  letter  to  copy  off,  stat- 
ing I  only  paid  in  three  or  four  dollars.     I  told  him  I  didn't  want  to  do 


96  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

it.  "How  can  I  do  that?"  He  said  that  was  all  that  was  used  for  it,  I 
said,  "Where  is  the  balance  of  my  money,  when  I  had  that  much  due  ?" 

Q.  Here  is  the  certificate  that  you  read  just  now.  You  say  that  you 
gave  this  certificate;  that  is  after  the  campaign  was  over? — A,  Yes,"sir. 

Q.  You  then  gave  another  certificate  that  you  paid  but  three  or  four 
dollars  ? — A.  That  is  the  letter  that  Dwire  gave  me  to  copy  otf,  wanting 
me  to  state  I  did  not  pay  but  three  or  four  dollars.  I  said,  how  could  I 
do  it?     He  said,  there  was  not  but  that  much  used. 

Q.  When  was  that  ? — A.  Just  before  I  left  there.  It  was  in  April  or 
May,  1881 ;  some  time  during  the  three  months  while  I  staid  at  Freeze's 
distillery. 

Q.  This  certificate  is  dated  the  25th  of  April,  1881,  in  which  you  state 
you  gave  $101  ?— A.  1  think  it  was  1880. 

Q.  The  date  of  the  certificate  is  the  25th  of  April,  1881,  for  $i04.— 
A.  Then  they  have  dated  it  wrong;  there  is  that  much  about  it.  It  was 
kept  back  for  campaign  purposes  until  I  signed  this  letter  in  1881. 

Q.  This  certificate  is  dated  about  a  year  after  the  campaign  was  over; 
suppose  you  read  it  again. — A.  I  have  read  it.  I  don't  recollect  of  ever 
giving  any  certificate  that  long  afterwards.  It  was  before  the  election 
as  well  as  I  recollect. 

Q.  Your  recollection  seems  to  be  confused  considerably  about  this;  is 
it  not  possible  that  your  recollection  is  confused  about  the  office  exi^ense 
fund  and  the  campaign  fund,  so  that  you  have  got  the  three  dolhirs  put 
in  one  place  now,  whereas  in  reality,  if  we  get  at  the  facts,  it  belongs  to 
the  othei'  place? — A.  Just  as  I  have  told  you  it  was. 

Q.  You  feel  perfectly  clear  that  the  certificate  for  three  dollars  was 
for  campaign  purposes'! — A.  For  campaign  purposes. 

Q.  It  was  give^i  about  May  or  June,  1881  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  that  Dwire  handed  you  the  letter  to  sign? — A.  He  gave  me 
the  letter  to  copy  oft'  stating  I  had  j)aid  in  that  much,  and  I  returned 
them  both  back  to  the  office. 

Q.  And  yet  it  appears  from  this  certificate  that  some  time  about  the 
last  of  April  3'ou  had  given  a  certificate  that  you  had  paid  $104? — A.  If 
it  is  so  I  do  not  recollect  of  ever  giving  any  certificate  after  the  elec- 
tion ;  as  well  as  I  recollect  it  was  given  before  the  election. 

Q.  You  gave  the  certificate  before  the  election  ? — A.  As  far  as  I  recol- 
lect, it  was  given  before  that. 

i^.  In  1880? — A,  Yes,  sir.  When  the  money  was  kejit  back;  some- 
time after  they  had  kept  the  money  back. 

Q.  To  whoui  did  you  give  that  certificate'? — A.  I  don't  recollect.  I 
was  going  there  to  the  office. 

(}.  What  was  in  it? — A.  Well,  it  was  what  is  in  that  right  there  (in- 
<licatiiig  certificate) ;  just  exactly,  1  believe,  word  for  word  what  I  read 
there. 

(},.  You  state  in  this  certificate  that  you  gave  the  $101  freely  and 
<*lieertully,  and  would  do  it  iigain  under  like  circumstances  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir-. 

(^>.  'I'liat  is  true  ? — A,  Yes,  sir, 

(^.  J'^recly  ;ind  chcerlully  given,  and  would  be  under  like  circum- 
stances giv(ni  again  ? — A,  Yes,  sir.  Well,  then,  here  that  letter  came 
from  Dwifctor  me  to  copy  that  I  only  paid  in  tlirce  or  four  dollars — 
only  that  used.  He  told  me  he  did  not  know  where  my  nu)uey  was — 
what  tlu^y  luul  done  with  the  balance  of  the  money.  What  1  wanted  to 
know  was  if  they  only  used  that  miu-h  for  campaign  purposes.  I  wanted 
the  balance  of  tliat  money.     1  was  willing  to  pay  in  as  much  as  any  one, 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  97 

as  far  as  I  was  able ;  but  if  only  that  much  used  for  campaign  purposes, 
I  wanted  the  balance. 

Mr.  Pool  (to  the  chairman).  There  is  following  this  certificate,  which 
has  gone  into  evidence,  an  affidaAat  of  Mr.  A.  B.  Gillespie,  which  I 
wonld  like  to  ai)pear  also  as  an  exhibit. 

The  Chairman.  We  had  Mr.  Gillespie  sworn,  but  not  asked  about 
that. 

Mr.  Pool.  We  might  bring  him  back,  as  this  is  new  matter  not  gone 
into  before. 

(Marked  Exhibit  23.) 

State  of  Nokth  Carolina, 

Irtdell  Co. : 

A.  B.  Gillespie,  being  duly  sworn,  deposes  and  says,  that  some  time  during  the  sum- 
mer of  1880  he  requested  J.  N.  Summers,  S.  &  G.  to;*  the  6th  dist.  of  North  Carolina, 
to  endoi'se  a  check,  for  what  month  or  for  what  amount  he  does  not  now  remember, 
for  campaign  purposes,  and  that  at  the  time  of  doing  so  he  stated  to  said  Summers 
that  it  was  a  voluntary  contribution,  and  no  one  was  requested  to  contribute  exctspt 
those  who  would  do  so  willingly  and  cheerfully.  Thereupon  said  Summers  did  of  his 
own  accord  endorse  a  check  for  his  salary  for  one  month,  which  check  this  deponent 
sent  to  the  State  executive  conunittee  through  J.  J.  Mott.  This  deponent  farther 
swears  that  he  made  no  such  remarks  to  said  Summers  as  ' '  Dou't  say  nothing  about  this 
at  all,  let  it  all  go,  if  anybody  gets  anything  we  will  be  the  men";  that  the  only  cou- 
versatiou  between  him  and  Summers  was,  that  the  money  would  be  used  for  campaign 
jiurposes,  and  that  all  assessments  made  by  the  national  executive  committee  would 
be  settled  out  of  the  check  then  endorsed  after  it  had  been  sent  to  the  State  executive 
committee.  All  that  part  of  said  Summers'  affidavit,  made  on  the  19th  day  of  Oct. 
1881,  before  A.  D.  Cowles,  D.  C,  which  states  that,  "soon  thereafter  the  deponent 
met  the  said  deputy  collector,  A.  B.  Gillespie,  and  acting  on  information  given  him 
by  the  collector  demanded  of  him,  the  said  A.  B.  Gillespie,  the  said  check  for  the 
amount  for  services  rendered  as  above  stated,  the  deputy  collector  denied  the  allega- 
tion of  J.  J.  Mott,  collector,  that  he  had  it,  asserting  that  he  had  nothing  to  do  with 
his  (deponent's)  check,"  is  utterly  false. 

The  said  Summers  has  never  in  his  life  had  any  conversation  wuth  this  deponent  iu 
regard  to  chect;s  supposed  to  be  held  by  J.  J.  Mott. 

A.  B.  GILLESPIE. 

Sworn  to  and  8ubscril)ed  before  me  this  20th  Jauuarv,  1882. 

J.  FRANK  DAVIS, 

Dep.  Collector. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Do  you  know  if  these  contributions  were  general;  if  all  the  officers 
were  called  upon  just  as  yon  were? — A.  Billy  Morrison  was  called  on. 

Mr.  Pool.  That  is  the  witness  who  was  examined  here  ? 

The  Chairman.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  was  your  understanding  whether  it  was  general  or  not;  some 
of  your  men  were  not  selected  out  I  suppose ;  what  did  Mr.  Gillespie 
tell  you? — A.  I  don't  know  whether  general  or  not — about  signing 
these  checks  ? 

Q.  Yes. — A.  He  said,  they  were  all  doing-  it. 

Q.  That  was  the  general  understanding  ? — A.  All  the  boys  were  sign- 
ing them. 

Q.  Su])posing  that  all  the  officers  on  duty,  deputy  collectors,  clerks, 
special  deputies,  storekeepers  and  gangers,  general  storekeepers  and 
so  on,  had  all  contributed  a  month's  salary,  about  how  much  would  it 
have  amounted  to  ? — A.  I  have  no  idea ;  if  I  knew  how  many  there  were, 
and  what  their  salaries  were,  all  of  them,  might  tell. 

Q.  You  can't  say,  then? — A.  No,  sir;  I  can't  say. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  was  done  with  the  money?     Did  you  ever  get 

any  acknowledment  from  anybody,  that  your  money  had  been  received, 

and  how  it  was  appropriated? — A.  Nothing  more  than  they  said  they 

used  it  for  campaign  purposes,  when  I  inquired  about  it.     Sometime 

S.  Mis.  116 7 


98  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

after  I  found  out  that  was  a  check — they  wanted  me  to  indorse,  that 
piece  of  paper.     I  did  not  see  anything^  on  it. 

Q.  You  don't  know  what  the  campaign  purposes  were;  they  never 
told  yon  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  What  was  the  general  understaiuling  through  the  country  around 
about  storekeepers  and  distillers  dividing? — A.  I  don't  know.  I  have 
heard  a  good  many  talking  about  it  outside.  They  said  they  believed 
they  were  doing  it.     That  was  all  I  ever  heard  said  about  it. 

Q.  What  was  the  general  understandiug  about  distillers  having  the 
choice  as  to  whom  should  be  their  storekeepers? — A.  I  declare  I  don't 
know.  They  wanted  men  that  they  were  acquainted  with,  all  I  knew. 
I  reckon,  rather  than  have  men  not  acquainted  with,  they  would  not 
run.  Sometimes  they  would  send  men  oft"  in  different  neighborhoods 
that  they  were  not  acquainted  with. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  the  distillers  had  any  word  or  say-so  as  to 
who  should  be  their  storekeepers  ? — A.  I  don't  know  anything  about  it. 
I  have  known  them  to  go  and  ask  for  storekeepers,  and  sometimes  get 
who  they  wanted  and  sometimes  would  not. 

Q.  Are  you  any  kin  to  P.  F.  Sommers  ? — A.  IsTot  that  I  know  of. 

Q.  How  came  you  to  make  that  certificate  that  has  been  read  here; 
who  applied  to  you  for  it  ? — A.  Which  one  ? 

Q.  The  one  dated  the  I'.jth  of  April,  1881,  in  which  you  saj'  you  sub- 
scribed *101:  to  the  campaign  fund. — A.  It  appears  to  me  like  it  was 
Gr.  W.  Sharpe.     I  won't  be  positive  about  it. 

Q.  This  certificate  you  were  not  sworn  to,  were  you  ? — A.  Is^o,  sir. 

Q.  It  did  not  profess  to  be  sworn  to.  You  say  Mr.  Sharpe  applied  to 
you  for  that? — A.  It  appears  to  me  like  it  was  him. 

Q.  Do  you  know  why  he  wanted  it? — A.  Xo,  sir;  I'don't. 

Q.  Did  he  tell  you? — A.  He  did  not  say  what  he  wanted  it  for. 

Q.  You  don't  think  that  is  the  true  date  of  it — April  25,  1881? — A. 
Xo,  sir;  I  don't,  without  I  am  badly  mistaken. 

Q.  Did  you  write  it  yourself,  or  somebody  write  it  for  you? — A.  I 
think  I  copied  it  off.  I  ani  not  certain  whether  I  copied  it  off,  or  just 
signed  it;  wcmld  not  be  positive. 

Q.  Did  he  have  one  prepared  for  yon  to  sign? — A.  It  appears  to  me 
like  that  I  copied  one  off. 

Q.  Then  lie  had  it  prepared  for  you,  and  re(iuested  you  to  copy  it? — 
A.  I  won't  be  positive  about  it,  whether  I  only  signed  it  or  just  copied 
it  off. 

Mr.  Pool  (to  the  chairman).  The  original  of  the  certificate  we  will 
bring  up  in  tlie  morning.  I  would  like  for  it  to  be  put  in,  and  to  ask 
the  witness  whether  it  is  in  his  handwriting,  body  and  all. 

The  Chairman.  He  ought  to  have  the  opportunity,  of  course,  to  tes- 
tily about  it. 

Adjonined  until  1  p.  m,,  Tuesday,  June  27,  1882. 


WASHINGTON,  D.  C,  Juuc  27,  1882. 

Tiie  c(»ininitt(M'  met  at  1  i>.  m. 

Mr.  Pool.  Mi-.  Chairnian,  we  find  tiiat  the  written  certificate  of  Mr. 
Sninriifis,  from  w  liicli  tiiis  copy  was  ])rinted,  that  was  read  yesterday,  is 
on  lilc  in  the,  department,  and  lias  not  been  returned  to  Dr.  Mott. 

The  (Jhaiu.man.   ^  on  will  not  want  Mr.  Summers,  then,  on  the  stand "2 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  99 

Mr.  Pool.  Xo,  sir.  We  wish  to  ask  Mr.  Ilamsay  some  questions  at 
some  time,  if  yon  are  going  to  pnt  him  on  the  stand. 

Tlie  CHAiii]\rAN.  Yon  can  aslv  liiin  at  any  time.  I  have  detained  him 
nntil  I  could  get  certain  documents  from  the  dei)artment. 

J.  A.  liAMSAY  recalled  and  cross-examination  resumed : 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  How  long  were  you  engaged  in  the  revenue  service  ;  from 
what  time  to  what  time  ? — Answer.  From  the  1st  of  March,  1872 — that  is, 
you  mean  with  Dr.  Mott  ? 

Q.  Yes,  sir.— A.  From  the  1st  of  March,  1872,  until  the  18th  of  Feb- 
ruary, 1871. 

Q.  At  what  time  was  Dr.  Mott  made  collector  ? — A.  He  took  the  office 
the  1st  of  March,  1872,  or  about  that  date.  All  the  papers  were  dated 
from  the  1st  of  jNlarch. 

Q.  Previous  to  that  time  you  had  been  under  Mr.  Wylie  ? — A.  Y"es, 
sir.  I  was  with  Mr.  Wylie  nearly  five  years.  I  think  I  went  with  Mr. 
Wylie  the  19th  of  March ;  from  the  1st  of  March  until  the  19th  it  lacked 
that  much  of  being  live  years. 

Q.  Y^ou  are  very  well  acquainted  with  the  district,  both  before  Dr.  Mott 
went  in  and  since.  You  reside  in  it  ? — A.  I  live  in  the  district,  but  don't 
know  a  great  deal  of  the  working  of  the  revenue  service  since  I  left  it. 

Q.  Will  you  state  some  of  the  difficulties  of  collecting  the  internal 
revenue  in  that  district,  the  disposition  to  resist  the  law  ? — A.  There 
was  a  disposition  to  evade  the  law.  It  was  rather  in  a  clandestine  man- 
ner, not  much  oi)en  resistance.     It  was  evasion  more  than  resistance. 

Q.  How  was  it  along  in  1872  and  1873,  under  Dr.  Mott  ?— A.  It  was 
the  same  way. 

Q.  Was  it  safe  for  a  revenue  officer  unarmed  and  unittended  to  go 
about  in  the  district  ? — A.  I  went  all  over  the  district  and  did  not  fear 
any  point  of  it.  Wilkes  County  was  thought  to  be  the  worst  country,  and 
that  was  in  the  territory  occupied  under  Mr.  Wylie.  I  have  traveled 
through  it  under  Dr.  Mott,  and  made  collections  all  over  Wilkes  ;  went 
up  to  Mulberry  Gap,  and  across  over,  following  the  chain  of  mountains 
to  Eeddies  Eiver  Gap.  Sometimes  the  mountains  were  so  steep  that 
you  had  to  get  down  and  lead  your  horse. 

Q.  Was  there  a  great  amount  of  illicit  distilling  in  those  mountains  ? 
— A.  A  great  many  ran  in  a  small  way  up  there. 

Q.  The  illicit  distilling  was  then  generally  done  in  small  stills ;  of 
what  capacity,  would  you  say  ? — A.  The  largest  illicit  distilleries  ever 
broken  up  were  abont  seventy  or  eighty  gallon  stills;  in  bushels  I  don't 
suppose  more  than  one  or  two  bushels  capacity  per  day  ;  they  did  not  run 
regularly,  but  in  a  clandestine  manner,  always  on  the  watch  out  for 
some  person  observing  them.  Any  one  going  up  in  that  country  a  little 
neatly  dressed,  with  papers  in  his  pockets,  was  spotted  at  once. 

Q.  Have  you  an  idea  how  many  of  these  illicit  stills  were  seized  un- 
der Dr.  Mott's  administration? — A.  I  could  not  say;  there  was  (piite  a 
number  of  sales  made;  could  not  give  any  definite  idea. 

Q.  Has  tlieie  been  an  improvement  in  that  respect  umler  his  admin- 
istration ? — A.  I  can't  say,  after  leaving  the  service. 

Q.  Don't  you  know  what  the  condition  of  the  service  is  now? — A.  No, 
sir ;  I  can't  say  I  do, 

Q.  You  left  in  '73,  then? — A.  Eecently  my  business  has  been  enlirely 
foreign  and  outside  of  that.  For  the  last  year  I  have  been  out  of  the 
lower  i)ortion  of  the  district  and  np  in  the  western  part  of  the  State. 


100  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IX 

Q.  You  recollect,  of  course,  that  Mr.  Clarke  was  sentup  into  Dr.  Mott's 
district  and  shortly  after  he  was  made  clerk? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  knew  he 
came  up  there. 

Q.  To  act  as  clerk  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Was  that  for  the  purpose  of  iustiuctnig-  the  officers? — A.  1  cau't 
say  as  to  that. 

Q.  How  to  carry  on  things'? — A.  He  came  up  there,  as  I  understand, 
to  assist  Mr.  Cowles  in  opening  the  books,  but  shortly  after  Cowles  got 
the  appointmeut  of  clerk  to  the  federal  court,  and  Clarke  was  made  clerk 
in  charge  of  the  books. 

Q.  Mr.  Clarke  had  previously  been  in  the  internal  revenue  service! — 
A.  So  I  understood. 

Q.  Did  you  know  he  was  sent  up  there  by  Mr.  Perry,  the  supervisor, 
who  recommended  him'? — A.  I  so  understood  that  Mr.  Perry  sent  up  a 
clerk,  one  acquainted  with  the  service,  and  thought  he  understood  it. 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  it  was  at  his  instance,  and  by  his  recommenda- 
tion, he  was  sent  there  and  put  under  Dr.  Mott? — A.  No,  sir;  I  could 
not  say  as  to  that;  I  only  heard  him  speaking  of  him  as  one  competent. 
The  only  conversation  1  heard  about  it  was  between  Mr.  Wylie  and  Mr. 
Perry. 

Q.  What  was  that  ? — A.  It  was  in  regard  to  the  competency  of  the 
different  bookkeepers. 

Q.  What  did  the  supervisor  say? — A.  Mr.  Perry  thought  Mr.  Clarke 
well  acquainted  with  it. 

Q.  Now,  you  acted  under  Dr.  Mott  for  about  two  years,  did  you  not  ? — 
A.  Nearly  two  years. 

Q.  Did  you  sometime  act  as  clerk  ? — A.  For  a  week  I  did. 

(^.  At  one  time? — A.  Only  one  week.  Dr.  Mott  wrote  to  me  to  come 
up  there;  that  he  had  been  compelled  to  discharge  Clarke,  and  take 
charge  of  the  office  until  he  could  make  other  arrangements.  He  spoke 
to  me  about  it  in  Charlotte,  a  few  days  before,  to  come  up  and  take 
charge  of  the  office.  1  told  him  1  did  not  desire  to  do  it.  I  wanted  a 
more  active  life.  He  wrote  me  to  Salisbury,  and  I  took  charge  of  the 
office. 

Q.  About  what  time  was  that? — A.  I  don't  recollect  now;  sometime 
in  '73;  in  the  summer,  I  think.  I  liave  the  original  letter,  if  it  is  a  mat- 
ter of  any  material  consequence,  from  which  the  exact  date  can  be  as- 
certained. 

Q.  Was  ]\rr.  Clarke  addicted  to  drinking? — A.  That  was  the  reason 
he  was  displaced  at  that  time,  on  account  of  drunkenness.  Dr.  Mott 
told  nu'  in  Charlotte  he  was  drinking  so  that  he  could  not  stand  it. 

i^.  W'iis  INIr.  Clarke  afterward  restored? — A.  Yes,  sir;    I  think  he 

was. 

(I.  Do  you  recollect  whether  he  still  drank  after  being  restored  ? — A. 
I  don't  think  he  drank  to  that  excess  as  he  had  before;  at  least  I  did 
jiot  see  it.     I  don't  recollect  of  seeing  him  drunk  after  that. 

Q.  Did  you  not  have  cliarge  of  the  olhce  sometimes  for  the  i)urpose  of 
selling  stamps  and  things  of  that  kind? — A.  No,  sir;  there  was  some 
stamp  books  ])la(ted  in  my  charge,  but  I  did  not  have  charge  of  the 
stiimps  in  the  ollii'C 

Q.  Don't  you  re(;ollect  you  were  there  in  charge  of  the  safe,  and  sell- 
ing st;(ini)s  on  moi'e  than  one  occiision? — A.  I  never  had  charge  of  the 
safe  ;it  any  time,  <^ven  during  the  time  I  was  in  charge  of  the  oltice,  when 
we  were  engiiged  in  taking  ;ni  account  of  the  condition  of  the  office. 
Clarke  still  retained  the  key  of  the  safe. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  101 

Q.  You  were  still  there  about  the  office? — A.  About  tlie  office  twa 
years. 

Q.  Doin<jwritiugaudfrequeutly  sitting  at  Dr.  Mott'sdesk? — A.  Most 
of  the  writing  I  did  was  at  Dr.  Mott's  desk,  or  in  the  room  wliich  Dr. 
Mott  generally  remained  in.  Most  of  the  work  I  did  there  was  in  the- 
fall  of '73,  while  there  was  considerable  pressure  to  get  the  new  distil- 
leries under  way. 

Q.  And  you  still  never  actually  had  charge  as  clerk  but  one  week, 
but  was  frequently  about  there  acting  in  a  clerical  capacity  ? — A.  When 
I  was  there,  done  any  work  necessary. 

Q.  You  gave  a  boiul  as  deputy  to  the  collector,  did  you  not? — A.  I 
don't  think  I  ever  gave  any  bond  at  all  directly.  After  I  was  appointed. 
Dr.  Mott  wanted  me  to  attend  to  some  business;  I  remarked,  I  wanted 
to  go  home  and  fix  up  the  bond.  Said  he,  never  mind  about  that,  go 
and  attend  to  this  other  business.  I  don't  think  that  there  was  ever 
one  made  during  the  whole  time — in  fact,  am  certain  there  was  none. 

Q.  It  is  your  impression  that  you  never  gave  any  Ijond  at  all  ? — A. 
No,  sir.  I  paid  very  little  attention  to  it,  because  I  think  the  time  was 
over.  I  was  with  Mr  Wylie  between  two  and  three  years  before  ever  I 
filed  a  bond.  When  I  did  it  then,  it  was  because  a  revenue  agent  came 
up  and  demanded  bonds.  I  told  him  the  collector  had  never  taken  any, 
that  he  knew  whom  he  had  as  his  deputies;  said  he,  there  must  be  bonds- 
for  them.     Then  I  filed  one,  dating  it  back  to  the  commencement. 

Q,  Do  you  recollect  ever  talking  with  Frank  Adams  in  regard  to  a 
bond;  he  wanted  you  to  tell  him  who  the  sureties  were? — A.  I  don't 
think  Frank  Adams  ever  said  a  word  to  me  about  bonds.  I  have  no 
recollection  of  it. 

Q.  Did  you  not  refuse  to  tell  him  who  the  sureties  were  on  it? — A.  I 
don't  think  I  did,  or  ever  anything  was  said  about  it. 

Q.  You  were  examined  in  an  investigation  before  a  referee  some  time 
ago? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  ever  stating  on  that  occasion  that  you  did  not 
recollect  who  was  on  the  bond  with  you  ? — A.  I  was  asked  the  question 
who  was  on  the  bond.  I  had  no  recollection  of  any  bond  being  given, 
if  I  recollect  aright.  I  think  the  answer  was  there  was  none  given,  to 
the  best  of  mj  recollection. 

Q.  You  stated  you  did  not  recollect  who  was  on  it  ? — A.  If  there  was 
none  given,  of  course  could  not  recollect  who  was  on  it. 

Q.  Don't  you  recollect  mentioning  in  that  investigation  the  name  of 
one  of  the  sureties  on  your  bond  ?^-A.  I  mentioned,  if  one  given  ;  very 
likely  there  was  one  name  on  it.  I  don't  think  then,  or  now,  there  was 
any  ever  given. 

Q.  You  said  the  other  day  the  amount  of  taxes  you  collected  was  over 
and  above  your  salary,  estimating  the  salary  at  8100  a  month ;  that  is, 
the  amount  allowed  by  the  government  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  the  amount  you  collected,  the  taxes,  would  have  overpaid 
that  $100  a  month? — A.  I  don't  think  I  understand  your  question. 

Q.  You  were  claiming  $150  a  month  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Dr.  Mott  was  insisting  you  were  to  have  only  $100  ? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
he  insisted  in  '74.  There  was  nothing  said  about  it  until  it  came  to 
the  final  settlement,  after  the  first  contract  was  made. 

Q.  He  insisted  it  was  only  $100  a  month.  In  the  meantime  you  had 
made  collection  of  taxes,  and  applied  them  to  your  salary  ? — A.  Under 
his  direction,  applied  them  in  paying  current  expenses. 

Q.  Had  you  not  collected  more  than  enough  then  to  have  paid  you 
$100  a  month  ? — 4.  Yes,  sir.     As  I  said  the  other  day,  my  understand- 


102  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

ing  witli  him  was  that  I  left  a  safe  margin,  and  thougiit  there  was  right 
smart  money  due  me. 

Q.  You  overi)aid  yourself  if  couflued  to  the  $100  a  month  1 — A.  Yes, 
sir.  I  don't  recollect  the  exact  balance,  but  a  small  amount,  if  confined 
to  the  8100  a  month. 

Q.  Wefe  there  not  some  taxes  in  the  aggregate  collected  by  you,  that 
you  did  not  return  on  paper  or  by  anything  to  the  oflice  ! — A.  Ko,  sir. 
Dr.  jMott  offered  a  reward  to  some  of  his  deputies  to  find  any  such.  I 
told  them  they  were  welcome  to  search  the  district. 

Q,  You  are  not  certain  but  that  some  of  your  receipts  are  out  in  the 
hands  of  certain  parties  ? — A.  None  that  I  know  of  but  are  included  in 
the  return  ;  everything  I  know  of. 

Q.  Do  you  think  they  are,  or  they  are  not  ? — A.  I  don't  think  there 
are  any  such;  if  there  is,  I  don't  know  it.  Mr.  Martin  and  ]\rr.  Adams 
both  told  me  that  Dr.  Mott  had  requested  them  to  put  themselves  to 
some  trouble  to  see  if  they  could  not  find  something  of  the  kind. 

Q.  If  you  collected  these  taxes  certainly  you  kept  an  account  of  them? 
— A.  Certainly  I  did. 

Q.  And  gave  your  receipts  '? — Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Xow,  by  looking  at  that  account  and  knowing  the  receipts  that 
were  out  for  the  taxes  collected,  as  shown  l)y  that  memoranda,  can  you 
not  say  positively  Avhether  you  have  accounted  for  all  the  receipts  that 
are  out  ? — A.  I  could;  I  accounted  for  all  of  them;  some  parties  sent 
you  money  by  registered  letter,  and  the  taxes  of  some  two  or  three  in 
one  letter,  but  I  kept  a  record  of  all  these  accounts,  so  that  I  can  say 
that  everything  was  correctly  accounted  for.  Mr.  Perry,  the  supervi- 
sor, told  me  he  had  caught  up  with  every  collector .  that  had  been  in 
the  district  except  me,  but  he  had  no  knowledge  of  finding  anything 
that  had  been  abated  that  I  had  collected,  but  what  had  been  accounted 
for. 

Q.  From  looking  at  your  niemoranda  can  you  state  positively  that  no 
such  receipts  are  out  in  the  district? — A.  I  don't  think  there  are  any 
such;  think  I  can  say  so  confidently. 

Q.  You  have  got  a  record  of  the  taxes  you  collected? — A.  I  have  a 
recoid  of  all  deposited  in  Ivaleigh,  but  some  deposited  in  the  oftice  at 
Statesville  I  have  no  record  for. 

(^.  Have  you  ever  returned  that  record,  such  as  you  have? — A.  I  re- 
turned to  Dr.  ]Mott  an  account  of  the  taxes  deposited  at  Kaleigh. 

Q.  All  you  collected  on  that  record? — A.  ^o,  sir;  what  I  deposited 
in  llalcigh,  not  on  that  record. 

Q.  Have  you  not  got  a  record  of  that? — A.  Xone  at  all;  just  gave  a 
list  to  Clarke  of  the  money,  and  have  no  record  at  all  of  it. 

Q.  ^Vas  there  any  taxes  collected  l»y  you  for  wliich  you  gave  re- 
ceipts tiiat  don't  apiK'ar  on  the  record  you  returned  to  J)r.  Mott,  or 
upon  tlu'  recoi'd  sent  to  b'alcigh f — A.  All  the  taxes  1  collect(;d  and  de- 
]»osit<'(|  the  nioncx  in  K'alcigii,  are  accounted  for  on  the  rec(ml  to  Dr. 
]\l()tt.  All  tlic  iiioiK'Ns  conceited  and  paid  over  to  Clarke  I  gave  him  a 
lisl  lor. 

By  Senator  McDiLL: 
i>.    lie  was  the  clerk:'— A.   Chief  clerk. 

J>y  Mr.  rtioi.: 
(}    These  tMo  iccords  w  oiihl  ciiiltrace  all   that  you   collected   and  all 
you  ga\'e  i-eceipts  loi' ;' — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.   Vou  feel  certain  of  that? — A.   Yes,  sii';  you  see  the  I'ccoi'd  of  the 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  103 

taxes  I  deposited  at  Ralei^li  wii«  l>nt  on  Form  102;  those  I  gave  to  Mr. 
Clarke;    was  just  a  ineinoriiuduiu  of  tlie  collections. 

Q.  You  mean  to  say  no  taxes  bad  been  collected  that  \yere  not  ac- 
counted for,  ami  no  receipts  of  yours  out? — A.  I  think  I  can  very  safely 
say  that  none  not  accounted  for. 

Q.  You  do  sav  so  !— A.  That  is  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge  and  be- 
lief. 

Q.  You  can  say  then  positively,  can  you  not,  you  collected  no  money 
that  you  have  not  returned  ? — A.  I  think  I  can  say  so  very  safely  ;  but 
to  say  that  in  the  whole  transactions  of  two  years  everything  is  posi- 
tively correct,  I  would  not  for  that  length  of  time ;  but  so  far  as  all 
reasonable  correct  business  transactions  are  concerned,  I  think  they  are 
correct. 

Q.  How  could  you  collect  taxes  and  give  receipts  you  did  not  re- 
turn ?  —A.  Well,  there  was  one  part  of  the  time  the  moneys  were  depos- 
ited and  stamps  got  afterwards.  I  asked  Dr.  Mott  to  allow  the  stamps 
to  be  taken  out  at  that  time  and  sold  to  the  parties  direct,  but  he  re- 
fused to  do  it,  and  in  that  way  there  was  some  confusion.  I  don't  be- 
lieve there  was  any  in  my  account. 

Q.  1  am  talking  about  when  you  gave  receipts  and  before  the  stamps. — 
A.  No,  sir  ;  I  don't  think  any  thing  incorrect  through  it.  I  had  stubs 
and  made  my  returns  from  tlie  stubs. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  collect  money  that  was  not  on  the  stubs  ? — A.  Xo, 
sir ;  I  always  filled  out  the  stub  and  receipt  at  the  same  time. 

Q.  You  never  collected  money  and  gave  receipts  not  put  on  the 
stubs. — A.  1^0,  sir. 

Q.  You  are  able,  then,  to  say  you  did  return,  and  account  for,  to  the 
collector,  all  the  money  that  you  collected,  in  the  way  of  which  you 
have  been  speaking  ? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  I  gave  him  a  list  of  all  the  collec- 
tions I  made. 

Q.  You  are  able  to  say  that  positively  ? — A.  To  the  best  of  my  knowl- 
edge  and  belief  he  got  a  list  of  the  whole.  I  have  no  knowledge  of 
any  whatever  he  did  not  get  a  list  of;  that  is  the  list  filed  and  deposited 
in  Raleigh,  and  the  list  given  to  Clarke.  On  three  difterent  occasions — 
I  cannot  locate  the  time  just  now — I  gave  Clarke  returns  to  make  up, 
and  some  of  these  were  listed  from  my  stubs.  Of  course  I  did  not  put 
them  on  102  when  given  to  him. 

Q.  It  seems  to  me  very  clear,  and  I  suppose  you  can  say  it  with  en- 
tire positiveness,  that  you  could  not  aftbrd  to  tear  a  receipt  off  and  not 
put  it  on  the  stub  f — A.  Of  course  not. 

Q.  You  did  not  do  it  1 — A.  ^o,  sir ;  I  recollect  very  distinctly  that 
Mr.  Crane  submitted  a  lot  of  stubs  to  me  taken  out  of  the  collector's 
office  when  turned  over  to  Dr.  Eamsay  ;  he  asked  me  if  I  knew  any- 
thing about  the  collections,  and  to  assist  him  to  verify  them  by  the  list 
to  see  if  accounted  for  or  not.  The  next  I  saw  of  these  stubs  they  were 
in  the  hands  of  Mr.  Beach.  There  was  quite  a  number  there  that  had 
not  been  accounted  for. 

Q.  Were  they  yours  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  I  am  speaking  of  yours  entirely;  these  stubs  would  show  every 
receipt  you  tore  out  and  gave  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  all  bound  up  in  the  books. 
When  I  filled  out  a  receipt  I  filled  out  a  stub  to  correspond. 

Q.  The  stubs  would  show  every  receipt  you  gave? — A.  Yes,  sir;  all 
accounted  for  in  Form  102,  or  on  the  list  to  Clarke. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  You  got  copies,  did  you  not,  of  those  vouchers  for  your  accounts 


104  COLLECTION)    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

of  '72  and  '73,  against  Dr.  Mott,  for  use  in  the  suit  with  him  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir ;  I  got  copies  of  the  vouchers  together  with  an  abstract. 

Q.  Did  you  come  on  here  and  search  in  person  for  them?— A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  When  was  that  ? — A.  It  was  during  the  year  '74  ;  I  think  in  Sep- 
tember.   I  don't  recollect  positively  the  time. 

Q.  Were  those  amended  vouchers  on  file  then  that  appear  here 
now  ? — A.  Xo,  sir ;  I  came  here — to  explain  the  whole  matter — first  in 
March.  I  wrote  to  the  department  in  regard  to  this  matter,  and  they 
answered  my  letter  by  asking  me  to  report  to  them  the  amounts  that 
Dr.  Mott  had  paid.  I  replied  to  the  letter  and  did  so.  They  responded 
to  that  letter  by  referring  me  to  Dr.  Mott,  saying  I  had  made  the  con- 
tract with  him  and  the  department  had  nothing  to  do  with  it.  That  was 
the  substance  of  their  letter.  I  came  on  here  to  examine  into  it  and  to 
see  what  was  the  case.  I  liad  an  attorney  here  at  that  time  employed 
in  some  other  matters. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 
Q.  Who  tVas  he  ? — A.  Mr.  Richards.  He  went  throngh  the  depart- 
ment with  me  and  looked  the  papers  up.  Mr.  Kestler  found  out  I  was 
coming  on  here  and  asked  me  to  look  for  his  815.  Says  I,  "  Give  me  a 
statement  of  it,''  as  1  had  heard  he  was  emplo.>  ed  at  the  rate  of  $80  a 
month  and  8lo  was  still  due,  he  only  having  received  $65.  Says  I, 
"Make  out  a  statement  of  what  was  due."  We  were  in  the  post-office  at 
that  time  and  he  sat  down  and,  with  a  pencil,  wrote  out  a  statement  of 
his  case  and  brought  it  to  me.  Says  I,  "  The  department  will  not  trouble 
themselves  with  any  statement  made  out  in  pencil.''  Mr.  Bringle,  the 
postmaster,  was  standing  by,  and  said,  ''  I  will  take  'and  copy  it  off  in 
ink."  Mr.  Bringle  wrote  it  and  qualified  Kestler,  and  I  filed  that  paper 
with  the  First  Comptroller.  Then  the  First  Comptroller  gave  admission 
to  us,  examined  his  files,  and  said  his  office  did  not  show  how  it  was, 
and  referred  us  to  the  Filth  Auditor's  office,  where  the  papers  were 
found.     Kestler's  affidavit  is  on  file  in  the  First  Comptroller's  office. 

By  the  Chair3IAN  : 

Q.  What  is  the  date  of  the  copies  jou  got  ? — A.  The  last  cojues  I 
got  was  a  certified  copy  of  vouchers,  one  in  1874  and  the  other  in  1877. 

Q.  Did  the  copies  contain  the  amended  vouchers  in  1877 "? — A.  No, 
sir  ;  the  amended  vouchers  were  not  in  there.  The  copy  of  November 
.3,  1877,  is  here.  Dr.  ]Mott  procured  it  from  the  clerk  of  the  court  at 
Salisbury,  and  he  took  it  out  of  the  records  of  the  court  there. 

Q.  V>'\\1  you  look  at  this  amended  voucher  and  abstract  and  see  if 
tlicre  is  any  mark  of  any  (.-lerk  about  the  office  of  the  Commissioner  or 
any  (late  by  which  you  can  say  when  they  were  filed?  (Exhibit  13 
handed  to  witness.) — A.  Do  you  have  reference  to  Form  03? 

Q.  The  amended  abstract  and  amended  voucher. — A.  I  see  nothing 
here  (indicating  back)  on  it,  only  the  nund)er  "71(iC." 

Q.  Will  you  say  if  the  originals  do  not  have  an  entry  or  stamp  by  the 
clerk  in  the  ('ommissioner's  office  (Exhibit  14  handed  to  witness)? — A. 
Tlie  original  for  the  quarter  ending  December  31, 1872, 1  see,  has  a  stamp 
on  the  b;ic,k  of  it. 

(}.  Can  you  read  it  ! — A.  No,  sir  ;  T  can't. 

(}.  Is  it'not  tlie  "  Fiftii  Auditor's  Office". '—A.  The  '^Fii'th  Auditor's 
Ollicc,  May  12,"  I  think  it  is.  The  number  on  that  is  "(5715."  The 
ann'iid<'d  coi r('S|K»ndiiig  is  the  one  Just  htolvcd  at,  lOxhibit  13.  This  is 
tlie  aniciKh'd  al)s(r;ict,  and  i  tlon't  se<' anything  in  it  except  that  number 
" 71<i(>"'  in  |tf'iicil. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  105 

Q.  Will  you  look  and  make  tlie  same  examiuatiou  of  tlie  other  vouch- 
ers for  the  quarter  ending  March  31, 1873  !  Examine  the  original  voucher 
and  abstract  and  the  amended  voucher  and  abstract,  and  see  if  one  has 
marks  of  the  office  of  the  Commissioner  upon  it,  and  if  the  other  has 
not  (Exhibits  IG  and  17  handed  to  witness). — A.  On  the  original  (Ex- 
hibit 16)  I  find  that  there  are  two  stamps  on  it.  One  is  very  dim,  but 
I  think  the  date  is  April  19. 

Q.  That  is  on  the  "original"  you  mean.  Exhibit  10? — A.  This  is  the 
original,  "Internal-Eevenue  Office,  April  19,"  and  "  Fifth  Auditor's  Office, 
June  IG,  1873."    The  former  is  so  faint  I  can't  make  out  the  year. 

Q.  See  if  there  is  anything  on  the  amended  abstract  voucher! — A. 
(Exhibit  17.)  I  find  nothing  on  the  amended  abstract,  only  the  numbers 
in  pencil  "  71GG."    I  find  no  office  stamps  on  it. 

Q.  State  whether  j^ou  find  the  vouchers  for  that  quarter  in  the  same 
condition  (Exhibits  10  and  11  handed  to  witness)  ? — A.  On  the  "  original," 
Exhibit  10,  is  the  stamp  of  the  "Internal-Revenue  Office,  October  8, 
1873,"  I  think  it  is  ;  can't  be  positive  about  it.  I  am  not  certain  whether 
"3"  or  "2";  and  on  the  "amended"  (Exhibit  11)  I  see  nothing  but  the 
pencil  figures  "  71G6." 

Q.  In  relation  to  those  stubs  that  Mr.  Pool  examined  you  about,  you 
say  you  did  find  a  good  many  that  needed  explanation  °? — A.  That  was 
on  another  lot  of  stubs. 

Q.  Not  on  yours  ! — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  examine  them  ? — A.  I  looked  over  them  with  Mr.  Crane, 
I  told  Mr.  Beach,  when  he  came  tome,  that  the  only  way  he  could  ascer- 
tain with  any  certainty  was  to  go  to  the  otfice  and  compare  with  the  books 
there.  I  had  no  means  of  ascertaining  them  correctly,  but  I  had  at  my 
own  instance  got  a  book  and  had  entered  into  the  books  from  the  list; 
but  somebody  had  surreptitiously  taken  it  from  my  office,  and  where  it 
was  I  knew  not.  If  we  had  that  book  they  could  very  readily  find  out 
all  about  it,  but  after  the  book  having  been  removed  by  somebody  from 
my  office,  we  were  without  any  means  of  ascertaining.  He  went  to  the 
office  and  made  the  examination,  and  came  l)ack  and  said  there  was 
some  money  in  somebody's  pocket. 

Q.  They  did  not  find  it  in  yours  ? — A.  No,  sir.  None  of  the  taxes  was 
in  my  handwriting,  or  received  by  me. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  I  call  your  attention  to  "  Compensation  Account  No.  G875,"  pur- 
porting to  be  the  "Fifth  Auditor's  report  on  an  account  for  salary,  com- 
missions, and  expenses  of  J.  J.  Mott,  collector'  for  the  Gth  district  of 
Nortli  Carolina."  I  want  to  ask  you  if  those  vouchers,  tbe  amended 
abstract  and  all,  do  not  bear  the  office  number  of  "  G875"  ? — A.  No,  sir ; 
different  numbers. 

Q.  I  do  not  ask  you  about  the  particular  ones,  but  whether  those 
papers  do  not  all  bear  the  office  number  of  6875  ? — A.  I  don't  know  ex- 
actly what  that  number  is  for. 

Q.  You  see  what  it  is  for — "  Compensation  Account  No.  G875  '? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  the  amended  voucher  or  abstract  does  not  bear 
that  number  as  well  as  every  paper  connected  with  the  case  ? — A.  No, 
sir;  the  amended  has  a  different  number.  The  "amended"  voucher 
(Exhibit  17)  you  see  here  has  "71GG"  while  on  here.  Exhibit  16  (indicat- 
ing pencil  marks  on  back  of  exhibits),  on  the  "  original,"  it  is  G875,  cor- 
responding with  this  number  of  the  adjustment. 

Q.  I  want  to  call  your  attention  to  certain  pencil  figures  on  Exhibit 


106  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

17,  the  "  amended,"  aud  on  Exhibit  IC,  the  "oiigiiial" ;  you  see  them,  do 
you,  sir? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  ask  you  if  the  peucil  figures  in  each  case  do  not  rei)reseut  the 
amount  claimed  in  the  written  abstract  ? — A.  Well,  this  is  the  original, 
aud  the  footing's  here  (indicating  bottom  of  columns)  amounts  to  what! 
suppose  is  the  footing  of  this  (indicating  the  addition  of  the  several 
sums). 

Q.  That  (the  latter)  is  the  aggregate  of  these  amounts  written  in  the 
columns,  is  it  not  ? — A.  I  think  so.  I  will  sum  it  up  to  see.  Yes,  sir; 
the  aggregate  is  in  that  penciling. 

Q.  Is  not  that  also  true  of  the  penciling  in  the  "amended"  Form  C3? — 
A.  (Calculating.)  Yes,  sir  ;  that  is  the  aggregate. 

Q.  I  call  your  attention  to  an  exhibit  which  I  will  put  in,  purporting 
to  be  a  statement  of  account  with  Dr.  Mott  for  the  period  extending 
from  January  1,  1873,  to  March  31, 1873,  as  made  by  the  Fifth  Auditor, 
aud  ask  you  to  turn  over  here  to  the  difference  and  just  read  the  "state- 
ment of  dift'ereuces." 

(Marked  Exhibit  21.) 

No.  6875. 

Treasury  Department,  Fifth  Auditor's  Office, 

June  Will,  1873. 
I  hereby  certify  that  I  have  examined  and  adjusted  an  account  between  the  United 
States  and  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  for  the  6th  district  of  North  Carolina,  from  January 
1st,  1878,  to  March  31st,  1873,  for  salary,  commissions,  and  expenses,  and  tind  him  en- 
titled to  credit  as  follows : 

By  salary  for  said  period,  special  allowance  dated  Aug.  16th,  1872 .  7.30  00 

"  amount  deposited  during  said  period *$!60,  33.5  00 

"  commissions  ou  .§ ,  at  3  per  cent.  $ 

"  "  $ ,  at  1  per  cent.  8 

"  "  $ ,  at  I  per  cent.  8 

"  "  $ ,  at  I  per  cent.  8 

"  "  $ ,  at  i  per  cent.,  being  amount  of  tax- 
paid  stamps  sold,  under  act  of  July  20,  1868,  as  pei  l)Ooks  of 
coupons  tiled  with  the  revenne  account  for  said  period .§.. 

"  special  allowance  for  expenses  of  oftice 1,325  00 

"  stationery  and  blank  books 

"  postage 43  70 

"  express  and  depositing  money 

"  advertising 

$2, 118  70 


/  special  allowance  in  lieu  of l,illl  00 

ions  ^    '■ 


I  also  find  liim  chargeable  as  follows  for  amounts  received  from  the  collector  acting 
as  disl)ursinn'  auent : 
For  salary 
"    commissK 

Notk. — Ex]>('nseH  of  administering  ollice  for  said  ])eriod  as  i)er  Form  63, 
fili'd  lici;-with  :   Dciiuties,  81,275.00  :  clerks,  84.5(t.OO  ;  rent,  86(1.00;  fuel, .89.00; 

ligiits,  8:?.0(J;  ad  vert's.  .8 — ;  miscel.,  li? ;   total,  $1,797.00. 

Balance  due  the  collector $207  70 

$2, 118  70 
The  siiid  lial.'iuic  to  be  carried  In  The  credit  of  the  collector  as  disbursing  agent  on 
1h(!  IxMiUs  of  the  Register  of  the  Treasury. 

The  accounts  and  v<»uchers  an-  heri-with  tiaiisuiit  ted  for  the  decision  of  the  Comp- 
troller theleon. 

J.   II.  EL  A,  Auditor. 
To  I  lie  I'll;- 1   CuMi'i  i.'oi.i.Ki;  oi-  Tin;  TiiKAsruv. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTEIOT    OF    NORTH    CAEOLIXA.  107 

Slatemeiit  of  diffvrciicts. 

Balance  claimed   per  account  duo  collector $C)70  70 

"    found  due  per  adjustment  "        "         207  70 

Difference  to  collector's  debit 47*2  00 

Explained  thus: 

Expenses  of  office  charged  in  ^(^ $1 ,  797  0() 

"  "      "      credited  Ijerein,  lieing  limit  of  allowance. ..      1,325  00 

$472  00 

Fifth  Auditor's  Office,  June  16,  1873. 

Examined  and  stated  by — 

E.  C.  CLARKE. 

Comptroller's  Office,  July  7,  1873. 
Examined  and  reported  by — 

CHAS.  G.  BIGGS. 

Q.  He  mentions  that  the  collector  in  his  statement  claims  8079.70  as 
due  him,  and  the  adjusting'  officer  finds  only  $207.70  due,  making  a  dif- 
ference in  the  collector's  account  of  $472  from  what  he  claimed. 

Q.  How  is  that  explained  in  the  account  ? — A.  It  is  explained  that 
he  had  put  in  vouchers  for  more  than  he  was  entitled  to. 

Q.  The  expenses  of  the  office  amounted  to  how  much  f — A.  $1,797, 
the  ex]ienses  of  the  office. 

Q.  He  was  credited  by  the  Fifth  Auditor's  Office  with  how  much  ? — 
A.  He  was  credited  with  an  expenditure  of  $1,325. 

Q.  Which  accounted  for  the  difference  of  the  $472,  did  it  not  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  'Sow  glance  down  at  the  bottom  of  the  page  and  tell  me  wluit 
date  that  account  was  stated. — A.  It  Avas  stated  in  the  Fifth  Au- 
ditor's Office  June  16,  1873,  and  in  the  Comptroller's  Office  July  7,  1873. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  it  is  not  apparent  that  when  that  account  was 
stated  the  amended  voucher,  showing  the  amount  to  be  allowed,  was 
considered  by  the  clerk  and  by  the  Fifth  Auditor  in  stating  the  ac- 
count 1 — A.  I  don't  know  that  I  understand  your  question. 

Q.  I  ask  if  it  is  not  apparent,  from  tbe  examination  of  the  papers,  that 
the  amended  abstract  and  original  abstract  were  both  considered  by  the 
clerk  who  stated  that  account  for  the  Fifth  Auditor,  and  who  afterwards 
signed  it  ? — A.  Thei'e  is  no  evidence  there  that  the  amended  voucher  was 
ever  considered.  The  allowance  was  considered,  but  no  evidence  that 
the  amended  voucher  was  considered  at  all. 

Q.  See  if  the  footings  are  not  $1,347  in  the  amended  voucher. — A. 
That  was  the  allowance. 

Q.  And  exactly  the  footings  in  the  amended  voucher? — A.  The  foot- 
ings in  that  voucher  is  just  what  the  allowance  was. 

Q.  You  can  see  it  over  there  in  pencil? — A.  It  was  just  the  amount 
that  was  allowed. 

Q.  What  is  the  amount  of  the  footings  in  that  amended  al)Stract  of 
vouchers,  as  shown  by  the  pencil  marks  there  (indicating)  ? — A.  The 
amount  of  the  footings  is  $1,347. 

Q.  Now,  what  was  the  amount  allowed? — A.  $1,325. 

Q.  I  ask  you  if  it  is  not  evident,  from  an  examination  of  these  pa- 
pers, that  the  "amended"  voucher  or  abstract  was  the  one  upon  which 
the  allowance  was  made — the  final"  balance  was  stated  instead  of  the 
original  ? — A.  From  reference  to  that  date  when  this  amended  voucher 
was  sworn  to,  it  is  not  evident,  for  the  allowance  was  made,  as  stated  here, 
in  1873,  while  the  amended  voucher  was  sworn  to  in  1874. 


108  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  You  think,  then,  it  was  put  in  since? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Upon  what  basis  was  the  $1,325  aHowed  ? — A.  That  was  on  the 
allowance  made  to  the  collector  to  run  the  district.  The  original  bears 
date  as  "subscribed  and  sworn  to  this  the  10th  day  of  April,  1873";  the 
amended  "subscribed  and  sworn  to  this  the  2Ist  day  of  Septendier, 
1874."  The  adjustment  bears  date  of  the  Fifth  Auditor's  Office,  June 
IG,  1873;  and  the  Comptroller's  Oftice,  July  7,  1873,  And  it  could  not 
be  possible  for  a  paper  made  up  in  1874  to  be  present  and  taken  into 
consideration  in  adjusting  an  account  in  1873. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  a  credit  was  not  allowed  upon  the  basis  of  the 
amended  voucher  ? — A.  The  same  allowance  as  called  for  there  is  made 
every  quarter. 

Q.  Have  you  any  knowledge  of  the  mode  in  which  accounts  are  set- 
tled in  the' Fifth  Auditor's  Oftice? — A.  I  have  not  of  my  own  direct 
knowledge.  I  have  from  hearsay;  from  what  I  have  heard  the  Commis- 
sioner say,  and  other  persons. 

Q.  I  ask  you  if  it  was  not  the  duty,  if  you  know — you  may  not  know 
— of  the  clerk  having  charge  of  this  account,  when  it  was  stated  and 
allowed  for  $1,325  instead  of  81,797,  as  claimed  by  Dr.  Mott,  to  notify 
Dr.  Mott  of  the  difference,  and  in  what  it  consisted  ? — A.  The  clerk,  as 
soon  as  settlement  was  made,  transmitted  that  report  to  the  collector 
at  once. 

Q.  He  would  tell  him  in  substance,  Dr.  Mott,  you  claimed  8G79.70  due 
you.  We  say  only  $207.70  due;  there  is  a  difference  of  8472  between  us 
and  you.  That  difference  is  to  be  charged  to  the  expenses  of  the  office. 
On  your  original  voucher  is  81,797.  We  only  give  you  credit  for  81,325  ? 
— A.  That  is  exactly  what  they  say. 

Q.  Was  it  not  the  duty,  then,  of  the  collector,  and 'the  right  thing  for 
him  to  do,  to  send  an  amended  voucher  in  accordance  with  what  they 
had  allowed? — A.  Xot  necessary  for  him  at  all.  It  would  be  no  evi- 
dence; no  getting  any  credit  on  that  account. 

Q.  If  it  should'  turn  out  to  be  the  fact  that  he  did  that,  the  presence 
of  this  voucher  there  at  this  time,  and  its  absence  when  you  looked, 
would  be  one  evidence  that  the  ordinary  business  course  of  the  office 
had  been  completed  ? — A.  As  a  matter  of  course,  when  the  collector 
would  submit  his  quarterly  statement  and  the  department  refused  to 
allow  it,  he  would  see  at  once  he  would  have  to  foot  it  out  of  his  own 
pocket  or  sto]). 

Q.  These  ollicers  having  power  over  him  and  his  disbursements,  he 
would  b{!  a])t  to  comply  with  their  final  order? — A.  He  would  be  com- 
pelled to  c(uiiply  so  far  as  that  question  was  concerned. 

(^  And  the  proper  thing  for  him  to  do  would  be  to  put  in  this 
amended  voucher  for  what  they  had  allowed  him  to  run  the  district  ? — 
A.  That  would  not  be  necessary  at  all. 

Q.  If  not  a  necessary  thing,  it  would  not  be  improper? — A.  ^o,  sir; 
not  improper. 

Q.  And  the  i^resence  of  such  an  amended  abstract  or  paper  would  be 
no  evid('n(;e  of  any  imiuoiniety  or  anything  wrong  in  tliat  accounf? — 
A.  Not  if  it  contained  the  same  names  as  the  original  did. 

(}.  And  if  theie  was  a  nanu^  on  the  original,  the  amount  claimed  for 
him  Iteiiig  absolutely  thrown  our,  so  that  nothing  was  allowed  for  that 
in«ii\  idnal,  the  absence  of  that  mime  wonld  not  be  any  evidence  of  any- 
thing wi'ong  ? — A.  It  (le[)en<ls  somewhat  upon  the  collector's  arrange- 
ment. Now  the  depintment  allows  the  collectors  so  nHu;li  ;  then  they 
allowed  them  t()  nmkc  I  heir  own  contriicts.  Later,  since  1  left  the  ser- 
vice, they  specify  how  many  (lei»nties  etc.,  they  shall  employ. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OP^    NORTH    CAROLINA.  109 

Q.  I  don't  care  about  the  custom.  I  am  speaking  of  the  mode  of 
stating'  an  account  and  the  absence  of  this  amended  abstract.  I  say  if 
Mr.  Brow7i  had  been  i)aid  according  to  tlie  original  voucher  $100,  and 
that  amount  was  totally  disallowed  by  the  Fifth  Auditor,  and  the  col- 
lector was  notified  that  that  amount  of  $100  paid  to  Mr.  IJrown  was  dis- 
allowed, there  would  be  nothing  improper  or  out  of  the  usual  course  of 
business  for  the  collector  to  tile  an  amended  abstract,  in  which  he  would 
omit  the  name  of  Brown  and  the  amount  paid  him  ? — A.  I  don't  know 
that  there  would,  if  he  had  paid  that  amount  to  Mr.  Brown;  no  neces- 
sity for  it.     The  depaitment  jnst  refused  to  allow  it. 

Q.  He  might  lose  the  $100  for  that  matter. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  So  far  as  the  government  was  concerned,  the  balance  would  be 
the  same  balance  f — A.  They  make  allowances  sometimes  during  the 
year.  The  collectors  try  to  get  an  allowance  early  in  the  year  for  the 
running  of  the  district,  where  the  salaries  and  commissions  are  not 
suflicient  to  meet  the  disbursements  without  an  allowance.  If  they  did 
not  they  had  to  foot  it.  Mr.  Wylie  ran  beyond  his  allowance  one  year 
and  had  to  foot  it  directly  out  of  his  own  pocket,  and  I  heard  Mr. 
Henderson  say,  who  came  on  and  examined  his  accounts,  he  had  more 
grit  to  him  than  most  men. 

Q.  What  time  was  it  vou  examined  these  papers — this  amended  ab- 
stract there?— A.  1874.  " 

Q.  What  time  in  1874  ? — A.  I  think  it  was  in  September ;  from  some 
I)apersl  have  seen  here,  when  examined  before  the  referee,  I  thought  it 
was  in  the  spring  or  smnmer.     I  see  it  was  in  the  fall. 

Q.  This  account,  you  see,  was  stated  the  KJth  of  June,  '73,  and  re- 
ported 7th  of  July,  1873. — A.  It  was  after  that. 

By  Mr.  Pool: 

Q.  Did  you  ever  break  up  any  illicit  distilleries  while  in  the  service 
there  under  Dr.  Mott? — A.  I  think  I  have.  I  did  so  much  of  that 
sort  of  work,  one  time  or  another,  that  I  could  not  say  how  much  was 
done  in  his  service. 

Q.  You  call  it  "cutting  up"  an  illicit  distillery  instead  of  breaking 
them  up;  that  is  the  exi^ression  used? — A.  I  don't  know  any  special 
I)hra8e  made  use  of. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  Breaking  up  the  establishment  and  cutting  up  the  still  f — A.  The 
only  term  was  "raising  them."    Up  in  Gaston  and  in  Wilkes  often  used. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Did  you  ever  break  up  or  cut  up  any  illicit  distillery  under  Dr 
Mott?— A.  I  think  I  did. 

Q.  Can  you  recollect  what  one? — A.  I  don't  recollect  now;  kept  no 
record  of  such  things.  I  recollect  making  a  trip  through  Wilkes,  Yad- 
kin, and  uijper  end  of  Davie  on  that  kind  of  expedition.  What  the  re- 
sult of  it  was,  don't  remember  now. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  ride  by  any  illicit  distillery,  knowing  it  to  be  such, 
without  breaking  it  up? — A.  No,  sir;  I  never  did. 

J.  S.  Leonard  sworn  and  examined. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Question.  Where  is  your  residence? — Answer.  Statesville,  JST.  C. 
Q.  Were  you  ever  in  the  service  of  the  sixth  revenue  collection  dis- 
trict?— A.  YeSj  sir. 


110  COLLECTIOX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  From  when  to  wbeu  ? — A.  It  is  so  long  ago  can  hardly  tell  you. 
I  went  in,  I  think,  in  the  fall  of  '73,  and  qnit  in  the  early  part  of  '75. 

Q.  In  what  capacity  were  yon  engaged  ? — A.  I  was  a  ganger. 

Q.  At  what  compensation? — A.  It  was  according  to  the  amount  of 
work  I  did. 

Q.  How  much  per  day  ! — A.  I  was  not  paid  by  the  day,  bat  by  the 
amount  I  gauged. 

Q.  Did  you  resign,  and  when? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  resigned.  I  think  it 
was  in  the  spring  of '75;  have  forgotten  almost;  am  certain  it  was  early 
in  that  year. 

Q.  Why  did  yon  resign? — A.  I  had  several  reasons  for  resigning.  I 
did  not  have  regular  employment,  was  one  thing ;  another  was,  I  was 
away  from  home  more  than  I  wanted  to  be;  and  another  thing  was  the 
distillers  wanted  me  to  do  things  I  could  not  do. 

Q.  What  did  they  want  you  to  do  ? — A.  Wanted  me  to  let  them  take 
liquor  without  tax-paying  it. 

Q.  Were  there  any  other  propositions  made  to  you  about  dividing 
your  pay  ? — A.  Xo,  sir;  I  don't  think  there  was;  don't  remember  that 
there  was.  They  even  told  me  they  thought  the  gangers  ought  to  do 
them  favors  or  i)ay  them  well  for  their  board ;  the  distillery  always  paid 
nothing,  which  was  unreasonable. 

Q.  The  distillers  said  that? — A.  Yes,  sir;  sometimes  intimated  such 
things. 

Q.  What  did  Dr.  Mott  say  to  yon,  when  yon  were  first  appointed, 
about  yonr  pay  ? — A.  He  asked  me  to  take  a  position  at  $50  a  month,  and 
said  it  might  be  over  that ;  that  some  money  was  needed  for  some  pur- 
pose, I  don't  remember  what,  and  all  that  might  be  over  that,  if  I  was 
willing,  was  to  be  used  for  some  purpose. 

Q.  He  asked  yon  if  you  would  be  willing  for  all  of  yonr  office-pay  over 
$50  to  go  to  some  purpose  you  now  don't  remember? — A.  No,  sir;  he 
asked  me  if  willing  to  work  for  $50 ;  don't  remember  the  words  ;  some- 
thing to  that  effect. 

Q.  ^Vllat  did  yonr  ohice  yield  you  ? — A.  I  don't  know;  when  I  had 
regular  employment,  between  $75  and  $100,  clear  of  ex^ienses,  I  think. 

Q.  You  say  jou  were  a  portion  of  your  time  out  of  employment.  Have 
you  had  regular  employment? — A.  I  wasemploj'ed  regularly  for  awhile. 
The  doctor  told  me  he  had  more  gangers  than  he  had  work  for,  and 
would  have  to  drop  me  awhile,  and  did  so.  After  that  I  was  assigned 
to,  I  think,  three  distilleries,  some  time  after  I  had  been  idle,  away  up  in 
the  mountains,  or  the  ui)-C()untry.  I  heard  that  one  had  stopped,  and 
anotlier  was  going  to  stop  in  a  few  days,  and  I  told  him  I  did  not  want 
t(»  go  to  tlie  third  one,  as  it  would  not  pay  me  to  go  to  one,  so  he  sent 
some  one  else. 

Q.  Were  you  ever  called  upon  for  contributions  for  political  i)nrposes"? 
A.  Yes,  sir;  1  think  I  was,  a  time  or  two 

(}.  Did  yon  (;ontribute  ? — A.  Yes,  sii'. 

i).  How  much  ^ — A.  I  don't  remendx'r  ;  I  think  about  $10  at  a  time. 

(^.  How  many  times  ? — A.  1  don't  remember  that ;  not  more  than  twice, 
I  don't  think. 

(^.  Vou  went  out  in  '75  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  to  the  best  of  my  recollection. 

Q.  What  distiller  was  it  that  told  yon  that  yon  ought  to  divide  with 
him  ? — A.  I  don't  know  that  either  one  did  directly  ;  they  often  talked 
to  me  al)out  what  pay  we  got,  and  we  ought  to  fiivor  them  all  we  can. 
-Mr.  I^iijah  Cline  told  me  he  thought  I  ought  to  leave  the  cistern  key 
with  him.  lie  said,  "Tlu'y  woidd  not  trust  me,  nor  the  storekee])er 
would  not  trust  hint.      l>amn  such  a  gov<'rnment." 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  Ill 

Q.  He  wauted  you  to  leave  the  cistern-rooin  key  with  him  ? — A.  To 
leave  the  cisteru-rooin  key.  I  told  liini  I  could  uot  do  that.  He  never 
charged  ine  au  unreasonable  i)rice  for  l)oard. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  any  others  had  been  in  the  habit  of  leaving 
the  keys  ? — A.  I  think  1  took  up  the  keys  of  one  or  two  distilleries  wheu 
I  started  around,  from  the  storekeepers, 

Q.  From  whom  did  you  take  up  the  key  ? — A.  1  think  I  took  it  up  from 
Dr.  L.  W.  Tate ;  he  was  at  A.  J.  Smith's  distillery.  [  think  he  had  re- 
ceived the  cistern-room  key;  am  certain  he  had. 

Q.  You  say  Tate  had  it  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Was  he  uot  entitled  to  it "? — A.  No,  sir;  the  ganger. 

B^Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  What  was  Tate  ? 

The  Chairman.  He  was  a  storekeeper. 

The  Witness.  I  know  I  took  up  one  key  if  not  more;  not  certain.  I 
think  at  A.  J.  Smith's  the  storekeepers  kept  the  key  of  the  warehouse^ 
and  the  ganger  kept  the  key  of  the  receiving-cistern  room  ;  at  that  time 
there  was  a  .storekeeper  and  a  ganger  to  each  distillery. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  the  dividing  of  stills,  one  large  one 
into  smaller  ones  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  I  don't. 

Q.  That  had  not  been  done  when  you  left  in  '75  ? — A.  Nothing  of  that 
kind  that  I  know  of. 

Cross-examination  by  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Did  you  agree  to  let  all  over  the  ^oO  go  to  the  purpose  indicated 
by  Dr.  Mott  f— A.  I  think  so. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  pay  it  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  after  I  went  into  the  service.  I 
did  not  know  anything  about  the  revenue  service,  what  was  legal  or  ille- 
gal, i  was  not  called  on,  and  drew  what  I  was  entitled  to,  and  never 
said  anything  to  Dr.  Mott  or  he  to  me  about  it. 

Q.  Really  you  did  not  pay  it  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  All  you  have  contributed  to  party  purposes  was  the  $10  twice  f 

A.  About  that  amount ;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  were  in  the  service  about  two  years  ? — A.  No,  sir;  I  was 
in  the  service  over  a  year,  I  think ;  perhaps  eighteen  months. 

Q.  And  you  were  kept  very  constantly  engaged,  assigned  somewhere 
all  the  time  ? — A.  The  last  four  or  live  months,  I  think,  I  had  but  very 
little  work.  I  don't  remember  how  long  I  was  idle.  At  first  I  had  work 
as  mncli  as  I  wanted. 

Q.  Y"ou  discharged  your  duties  faithfully  and  honestly  while  you 
worked  ? — A.  Tried  to  do  it. 

Q.  Y^ou  were  not  turned  out,  but  resigned  ? — A.  I  resigned  willingly. 

Q.  Dr.  Mott  did  not  request  your  resignation? — A.  No,  sir;  he  told 
me  if  I  wanted  to  resign  it  was  all  right,  and  he  would  give  me  a  pface 
again  if  I  wanted  it,  I  think  he  said. 

Q.  And  your  reason  for  resigning  was  that  it  kept  you  away  from 
home  too  much? — A.  One  reason. 

Q.  And  it  was  disagreeable  to  be  engaged  in  such  a  business? — A, 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  then  you  had  some  importunities  now  and  then  from  distil- 
lers to  do  things  you  did  not  want  to  do? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  was  another  reason,  and  taking  all  the  reasons  together  you 
resigned  voluntarily,  of  your  own  accord  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  it  is  certain  I 
resigned  of  my  own  accord. 

Q.  And  yon  had  assurances  of  work — to  go  back  at  some  time  after- 


112  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

wards  f — A.  I  tliiuk  he  told  me  so — that  I  could  have  a  place  again  if 
I  asked  for  it.  / 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  the  purpose  Dr.  Mott  indicated  the  money  was 
to  be  applied  to  ? — A.  ]So,  sir;  I  don't;  it  seems  to  me  that  he  said — 
but  not  positive  about  that — that  there  was  some  money  needed  to  as- 
sist some  editors. 

Q.  For  political  purposes  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  think  so  ;  I  suppose  it 
was, 

Q.  But  he  really  never  called  for  it,  and  you  never  paid  it  ? — A.  He 
never  asked  me  about  it  at  all. 

Q.  And  you  discharged  your  duties  as  a  faithful  officer,  resigning  of 
yoiu'  own  accord  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  had  an  assurance  that  if  you  wanted  to  come  .llJack  you 
could  come? — A.  I  think  he  told  me  he  would  give  me  a  place  again  if 
I  wanted  it. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  You  made  out  your  bills  for  the  full  amount  due  you? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  When  you  found  out*  what  your  rights  were  under  the  law  for  dis- 
tilleries ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  have  any  idea  why  you  did  not  get  any  work  towards 
the  last  part  of  your  appointment  ? — A.  I  don't  know  what  was  the  rea- 
son. I  thought  perhaps  Dr.  Mott  thought  I  was  a  little  contrary,  as 
I  would  not  go  to  one  distillery,  but  one  assigned  to  me,  and  that  would 
not  pay  me  to  go.  He  told  me  I  ought  to  be  glad  to  get  it ;  that  other 
gangers  would  take  it.    I  told  him  to  let  them  have  it. 

Q.  Have  you  not  assigned  as  a  reason  for  not  gettiitg  any  work  that 
you  would  not  accede  to,  or  comply  with  these  terms  the  distillers  wanted  ? 
— A.  No,  sir  ;  I  don't  think  that  I  ever  have. 

Q.  You  never  gave  that  as  a  reason "? — A.  No,  sir ;  I  think  not. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Dr.  Mott  did  towards  the  latter  part  offer  to  send  you  to  one,  two, 
or  three  distilleries  as  a  ganger,  and  you  declined  to  go  to  them  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  the  last  distillery  I  was  assigned  to.  I  was  not  assigned  to 
three  ;  I  understood  him  to  say  three.  I  heard  that  day  one  stopped, 
and  another  was  to  stop  in  a  few  days. 

Q.  And  then  that  you  were  not  assigned  was  not  Dr.  Mott's  fault, 
but  you  did  not  go  to  the  distilleries  in  the  latter  part  of  your  time; 
he  did  name  tlie  distilleries  he  wanted  to  assign  you  to,  but  you  were 
not  satisfied  with  them  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  was  the  last  assignment  I 
had. 

Q,  He  was  trying  to  assign  you  ? — A.  T  would  not  go — did  not  want 
to  gb,  at  least. 

Adjourned  till  Wednesday,  June  28, 10  a.  m. 


Washington,  D.  C,  Jnne  28,  1882. 
Tlic  (•oiiiiiiiltce  met  at  10  a.  m. 

TIk!  Collowing  witnesses  were,  introduced  and  examined  for  Dr.  J.  J. 
Mott,  ex-collector  of  the  sixth  internal-re\'enue  district,  North  Caroliua: 

M.  (i.  Camphkll  sworn  and  examined. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 
Question,  Where  do  you  reside  ? — Answer,  Statesville,  N  C. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  113 

Q.  What  is  your  age  1 — A.  Twenty-nine  years  old. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  residing  in  8tatesville  '! — A.  About  seven 
or  eight  years,  I  believe. 

Q.  That  is  since  about  1874? — A.  I  think  I  came  there  about  the  first 
of  1874. 

Q.  What  business  are  you  engaged  in  there  ? — A.  Merchandising-. 

Q.  Are  you  acquainted,  generally,  with  the  j^eople  around  that  sec- 
tion ? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  generally  acquainted. 

Q.  Have  you  been  much  over  this  sixth  collection  district  ? — A.  Not 
■xery  much,  except  Iredell  County  and  adjoining  counties. 

Q.  Have  you  observed  the  general  condition,  to  any  extent,  of  affairs 
connected  with  the  collection  of  internal  revenue  around  that  district, 
or  have  you  heard  of  it  ? — A,  Well,  all  that  I  have  heard — I  have  never 
heard  anything  wrong  in  any  way,  at  least  I  do  not  know  anything  from 
my  own  personal  knowledge. 

Q.  Do  you  know  that  some  six  or  seven  years  ago  there  was  a  great 
■deal  of  disturbance  in  the  community,  and  trouble  about  blockading, 
and  arrests  of  blockaders,  and  about  matters  connected  with  the  resist- 
ance of  the  revenue  law  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  there  was  a  great  deal  of  block- 
ading going  on  in  that  district. 

Q.  Tliat  was  six  or  seven  years  ago? — A.  Yes,  sir;  a  good  deal  more 
than  now. 

Q..  Were  there  a  great  many  arrests  made? — A.  Yes,  sir;  a  great 
many  were  made. 

Q.  Was  there  a  good  deal  of  public  disturbance  among  the  commu- 
nities ov^er  the  district  from  that  cause  !—  A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  think  there  was. 

Q.  That  is  not  so  much  the  case  now  ? — A.  Not  near  so  much  block- 
ading up  in  this  district,  I  do  not  think. 

Q.  There  seems  to  be  a  better  state  of  public  feeling  generally? — A 
Yes,  sir ;  a  great  deal  better. 

Q.  There  are  fewer  illicit  distilleries  ? — A.  I  do  not  think  there  are 
near  so  many  as  some  years  ago. 

Q.  How  do  you  attribute  the  change  for  the  better  in  the  last  few 
years? — A.  I  can  hardly  tell  you,  unless  it  was  the  raiding  force  that 
they  had  in  the  district  there  that  put  it  down. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  Dr.  Mott  has  been  diligent  in  trying  to  im- 
prove the  condition  of  affairs  in  the  district  ? — A.  J  think  he  has. 

Q.  What  you  hear  others  say,  and  what  is  generally  reported  by 
everybody  looking  on  and  observing;  that  you  have  a  right  to  say  here. 
— A.  I  think  that  is  the  general  impression. 

Q.  That  he  has  exerted  himself  to  improve  the  affairs  of  the  district, 
and  has  succeeded? — A.  Yes,  sir;  in  the  revenue  business,  and  in  put- 
ting down  blockading. 

Q.  And  he  has  succeeded  in  improving  it  to  a  very  great  extent  ? — A. 
I  suppose  that  is  the  cause  of  it.      It  is  improved  a  good  deal,  anyway. 

Q.  Do  you  not  hear  your  customers  and  others  with  whom  you  come 
in  contact  in  the  district,  s])eak  of  Dr.  Mott's  administration  of  the  in- 
ternal revenue  in  that  way  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  often. 

Q.  Does  there  seem  to  be  a  public  and  general  impression  in  the  com- 
munity on  the  subject,  whether  the  district  is  improved,  and  he  is  a  good, 
Lonest  collector,  and  has  done  his  duty? — A.  The  general  impression  is 
■he  is  a  good  collector  and  has  done  his  duty.  I  think  that  is  the  gen- 
■eral  impression. 

Q.  What  is  Dr.  Mott's  general  character  in  the  community  there  as  a 
man "? — A.  His  general  character  is  good  ;  very  good. 

Q.  You  mean  for  integrity  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
S.  Mis.  116 8 


1  14  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Morality  ?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

i}.  All  that  makes  up  a  good  and  reliable  citizen  '? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Does  he  stand  very  high  in  that  regard? — A.  He  stands  very  higli, 
sir. 

Q.  ])o  you  know  any  one  who  entertains  a  different  opinion  from  the 
one  you  are  now  expressing  of  him  in  that  respect  t — A.  He  has  a  few 
enemies  in  that  district.     I  have  heard  them  speak  to  the  contrary. 

Q.  Were  they  men  of  equal  standing  with  Dr.  Mott  ? — A.  I  do  not 
know.  He  has  many  enemies  there  of  very  high  standing;  some  tew  of 
different  political  opinions  from  him. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  that  enmity  is  of  a  political  party  character — 
connected  with  jioliticsf — A.  Yes.  sir;  I  think  so. 

Q.  Has  Dr.  Mott  been  an  active  working  Republican  in  that  district? 
— A.  Very  nuich  so;  he  has  been  a  very  active  politician. 

Q.  You  know  he  is  chairman  of  the  State  committee  of  the  Republi- 
can party  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  has  been  for  several  years;  I  mean  for  some  j^ears  back  ? — A. 
Yes.  sir;  I  have  forgotten  how  long  now,  when  he  was  put  in. 

i).  Let  me  ask  you,  as  we  have  got  your  general  statement — you  say 
there  was  a  good  deal  of  resistance  to  the  collection  of  internal  revenue 
from  illicit  distillers,  and  things  of  that  kind,  and  there  was  some  en- 
mity to  Dr.  Mott  as  a  politician  and  an  active  jjarty  manager — what 
lias  been  the  course  of  the  opposite  party  in  regard  to  the  internal  reve- 
nue generally,  in  their  intercourse  with  the  i>eople,  and  in  their  speeches 
to  the  people,  and  everything  else  ? — A.  The  Democratic  party  is  always- 
running  the  revenue  departujent  down  in  every  way  t}iey  can. 

().  Denouncing  it? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

(}.  Denouncing  tiie  law  itself? — A.   I'retty  generally. 

Q.  And  d«'nonncing  the  manner  of  its  execution? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

().  Denouncing  the  officers  who  execute  it? — A.  Pretty  generally j 
not  so  much  so  now  as  a  few  years  ago. 

Q.  Ha,s  the  course  of  the  Democratic  party  managers  in  that  district 
in  their  appeals  to  the  people  raised  a  popular  sentiment  against  the 
collection  of  the  revenue  there  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  has  been  the  case. 

Q.  And  one  calculated  to  obstruct  Dr.  Mott  and  his  officers  and  em- 
barrass them  in  their  duties? — A.  Yes,  sir;  a  few  years  ago  it  was  very 
mucli  so. 

(^>.  You  say  that  Dr.  ^Nlott  has  managed  to  make  all  that  less,  or  some- 
body has? — A.  Some  one  has  Ixmmi  the  cause  of  it.  He  has  been  the 
colh'ctoi-  and  has  control  of  the  revenue  business,  and  is  a  leading  poli- 
tician tlicrc. 

(}.  l)o.\on  know  that  in  recent  ycais  he  has  been  appointing  some 
Democrats  to  ol'lice  in  that  country  .' — A.   Yes,  sir. 

(}.  That  seems  to  give  some  satisfaction  to  the  Democrats  in  the  dis- 
trict?— A.  1  cannot  say  as  to  that. 

().  At  any  rate  the  denunciation  of  him  and  his  otticers,  the  law,  and 
the  <*.\ecution  of  the  law,  has  become  less? — A.  Oh,  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Since  tlx're  has  been  a  diminution  or  lessening'  of  this  denuncia- 
tion on  the  part  of  the  i)arty  jxditicians  down  there,  has  the  state  of 
jniblic  feeling  be(;om<'  moie  favorable? — A.  I  think  so;  yes,  sir. 

(}.  i\nd  the  obstruction  and  <'nil»arrassment  to  Dr.  Mott  an<l  his  olli- 
eeis  lias  become  less? — A.   \'es,  sir. 

(}.  'J'liere  has  l)een  a.  general  impro\ement  in  that  regard? — A.  A 
general  improv«'ment,  I  lliink. 

().  ('ouI(l_\()U  state  IVoni  \oni(i\\n  k  now  ledge,  and  I'rom  \\hatyou 
lieai-  lioni  iciialile  men  in  tli<'  tlisiiict  willi  wlioin  you  come  in  contacty 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NOKTII    CAROLINA.  115 

whether  some  3'ears  ago  (say  six  or  eight  years  ago)  it  was  safe  for  an- 
iiiternal-reveuue  oflicer  to  go  uuarined  and  uuatteuih'd  about  from  phie& 
to  place  ill  portions  of  that  district? — A.  I  have  lieard  it  was  not  safe. 

Q,  Do  you  know  of  some  of  them  being  flred  upon  and  shot  f — A.  I 
have  known  several  to  be  shot,  at  least  three  or  four. 

Q.  That  was  some  years  ago  t — A.  Some  four  or  live  or  six  years  ago. 

Q.  Do  you  think  it  is  now  safe  for  them  to  go  about  from  place  to 
place? — A.  I  think  it  is,  unless  it  is  in  the  extreme  western  part  of  th(^ 
district — the  South  JMountains,  as  they  call  them. 

Q.  Do  you  think  the  disposition  of  violent  men  to  attack  officers, 
making  it  unsafe  for  them  to  go  around,  was  caused  or  encouraged  by 
the  course  of  the  politicians  in  that  district"? — A.  That  had  a  great  deal 
to  do  with  it. 

Q.  Have  you  been  in  any  of  the  State  courts  when  violators  of  the 
revenue  laws  have  been  indicted  and  pnt  upon  trial? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Will  you  state  the  manner  in  which  witnesses  were  treated  b^- 
counsel  and  the  courts;  were  they  denounced  or  not  ?  State  anything- 
you  know  about  it  ? — A.  I  have  heard  some  of  them  denounced  by  the 
attorneys. 

Q.  More  so  than  in  ordinary  cases  of  prosecution? — A.  Well,  yes^ 
sir;  more  so  than  ordinarily  in  our  courts  there  and  other  courts. 

Q.  Denounced  as  revenue  officers  and  stigmatized  because  they  were 
revenue  officers? — A.  Yes,  sir;  the  revenue  officers  have  been  abused 
there  a  good  deal. 

Q.  I  am  going  back  some  five  or  six  years,  shortly  after  you  went  tO' 
the  district.  W^as  it  not  a  common  thing  for  revenue  officers  to  be 
taunted  and  insulted  upon  the  streets  wherever  met  by  persons  in  that 
community? — A.  Yes,  sir;  about  eight  years  ago,  when  I  first  came  to 
States  ville. 

Q.  There  seemed  to  be  a  general  disposition  on  the  part  of  a  portion 
of  the  people  in  that  district  to  belittle  them  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  to  make 
remarks  about  thein  as  they  passed  along  the  street. 

Q.  Of  an  insulting  character? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  heard  that  several 
years  ago.  It  is  not  that  way  now,  the  revenue  department  has  got 
to  be  more  respectable  now. 

Q.  Would  it  have  been  safe  for  revenue  officers  to  have  resented  sucb 
insults '? — A.  I  do  not  believe  it  would  at  that  time. 

Q.  The  objection  was  so  strong  to  the  revenue  officers  that  they  had 
to  submit  to  insult  and  eveiy  embarrassment  and  obstruction  thrown 
in  their  way  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  All  of  which  has  been  greatly  changed  now  ? — A.  A  good  deal  in 
our  community,  and  I  think  all  over  the  district,  especially  in  our  county.. 

Q.  Is  it  not  the  general  impression  that  Dr.  Mott,  by  his  conciliatory 
and  upright  course  and  his  high  character,  has  brought  about  that  re- 
sult, or  in  a  manner  contributed  to  it? — A.  I  think  so;  that  has  had  a- 
great  deal  to  do  with  it. 

Q.  Is  the  character  of  the  officers  he  has  under  him  generally  good  ? — 
A.  Most  of  them,  I  think,  are  good. 

Q.  You  hear  floating  rumors  and  reports  about  misconduct  on  the 
part  of  Dr.  Mott  and  his  officers,  of  course  ? — A.  I  have  heard  tiiat 
rumored  around. 

Q.  State  whether  you  know  yourself  of  any  official  misconduct  on  the 
part  of  Dr.  Mott  in  the  last  eight  years,  since  you  have  been  there  ? — 
A.  I  do  not  know  of  anything  of  my  own  personal  knowledge. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  any  respectable  man  say  that  he  kue^v,  of  his  own 
personal  knowledge,  the  truth  of  these  things? — A.  I  do  not  know.     I 


116  COI.LECTIOX    OF    INTEltNAL    EEVEXUE    IN 

Jiave  not  heard  any  one  say  they  knew  themselves.  They  Avonld  speak 
of  it  if  yon  would  ask  them,  bnt  that  they  did  not  know  anytliing  tliem- 
-selves. 

Q.  You  mean  snch  things  as  storekeepers  dividing  their  jKiy  with  dis- 
tillers ' — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  have  heard  that  ?  — A.  I  have  heard  it. 

Q.  1  am  jnst  getting  at  the  character  of  the  rumors  going  around — 
that  these  officers  were  compelled,  whether  willing  or  not,  to  contribute 
to  campaign  purposes  ? — A.  I  have  heard  that. 

Q.  And  that  he  drew  money  from  the  Treasury  and  did  not  pay  it 
•over  to  his  officers  f — A.  1  have  heard  that  they  had  to  contribute  a  large 
4imonnt  for  something — campaign  purposes. 

Q.  You  have  heard  rnmors  of  that  kind? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Were  those  rumors  more  rife  during  the  cami^aign  and  in  election 
times  greater? — A.  More  talked  about  then  ;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  say  that  you  do  not  recollect  ever  hearing  a  man  say  that  he 
knew  the  truth  of  these  things  of  his  own  knowledge? — A.  I  have 
heard  a  lew  storekeepers  say  they  contrilnited  the  amount  of  a  check, 
-^104  or  $108. 

Q.  You  heard  that,  l)ut  they  did  not  say  they  were  comi)elled  to  do 
iff — A.  I  never  heard  them  say  they  were  compelled  to  do  it. 

Q.  Have  these  rumors  been  growing  less  in  the  last  three  or  four 
years? — A.  Yes,  sir 5  since  before  the  last  presidential  election. 

Q.  Does  the  couimuuity  seem  to  be  giving  less  credit  to  such  rumors  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  so. 

Q.  They  are  dying  out? — A.  Dying  out  to  a  great  extent. 

Q.  They  would  not,  then,  be  so  likely  to  have  so  much  effect  as  usual 
in  the  coming  election  ? — A.  I  think  not,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  that  several  years  ago  hotel-keepers  and  others 
were  disposed  to  charge  these  revenue  ofticers  very  high  prices,  more 
than  what  they  would  other  people — out  through  the  country,  I  mean  ? 
— A.  I  do  not  know,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  heard  it  frequently  so  stated? — A.  1  have  heard  those 
revenue  officers  speak  of  it  when  traveling  through  the  country.  I 
■do  not  know  that  it  was  the  case  there  in  our  town. 

(iJ.  1  am  not  speaking  of  your  town  i)articularly,  but  outside. — A.  I 
have  heard  them  speak  of  it  frequently  that  they  charged  them  very 
heavy. 

Q.  They  found  difficulty  in  getting  a  place  to  stop  at? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
J  have  lu'ard  tliem  s|ieak  of  that  often. 

Q.  Tiiat  is  not  so  much  the  case  now  ? — A.  Not  near  so  much  so  now. 

Cross-examination  by  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  S]»oke  of  having  been  some  time  in  Statesville.  You  are  a 
native  of  the  State? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  was  raised  twenty  miles  froni  there. 

Q.  Vou  were  asked  what  you  liad  heard  about  tlu^  cessation  of  bh>ck- 
adiiig  and  illicit  distilling ;  that  you  had  heard  there  was  a  great  deal 
less  of  it  and  no  ivsistaoci^  To  the  suggestion  of  Mr.  J*o()l,  yo'ii  said  it 
was  attributable  to  Dr.  MotTs  conciliation,  good  conduct,  i)rudence,  and 
all  that  sort  of  thing. — A.  I  did  not  say  it  was  altogetiier  so.  1  sup- 
posed so.     Something  was  the  cause  of  it. 

<^.  iJave  \()u  not  also  heard,  on  the  other  side,  that  distilling  was  so 
urrange<l  that  it  was  cheajK'.r  and  bettei-  for  a  man  to  still  regularly 
tlian  it  was  to  "blockade"? — A.  i  do  not  know,  sir. 

Q.  IIav«^  yon  not  heard  that,  owing  to  a  nian's  being  allowed  to  run  a 
little  stiJJ  </■  .'..]   to  I  bushels,  and  ha\-e  a  stoickeeper  to  divide  his  pay 


THE    .SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  117 

with  liim,  tliat  it  is  cheaper  than  to  run  the  risk  of  bloekading  and  beinj;- 
caught? — A.   I  suppose  it  would  be. 

Q.  Have  you  heard  those  thiug's  ? — A.  I  have  lieard  often  that  the  store- 
keepers divided  tlieir  wages.  1  heard  that  mostly  from  everybody  that 
is  iu  that  country,  but  do  not  know  anything  of  it  myself. 

Q.  Of  course  you  do  not  profess  to  know  only  what  was  said,  and  tlK^ 
rumors — what  the  ])eople  spoke  of,  etc.  Was  it  not  the  general  under- 
standing there  that  the  blockaders  were  sort  of  bought  off,  by  l)eing^ 
allowed  to  put  up  these  small  distilleries,  getting  good  terms  from  the 
storekeepers,  and  so  on  ? — A.  I  do  not  think  I  ever  heard  that  was  the^ 
general  nnderstanding. 

Q.  What  kind  of  merchandising  are  you  engaged  in  ? — A.  Groceries. 

Q.  Are  yon  dealing  in  grain  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  have  been. 

Q.  Do  you  ever  supply  distillers  with  grain  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  receive  in  pay  for  grain  for  these  distillers,  any  checks- 
of  the  storekeepers? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  often? — A.  I  think  I  received  three  checks;  probably  as- 
much  as  three. 

Q.  Could  you  give  the  name  of  the  storekeepers  whose  checks  yoit 
leceived  in  payment  of  grain  for  the  distillers? — A.  I  think  I  received 
two  from  J.  M.  iShaver  and  one  from  K.  C.  l)Owles. 

Q.  Do  you  mean  they  were  distillers  or  storekeepers? — A.  Store- 
keepers. 

Q.  Did  that  excite  any  suspicion  in  your  mind  that  the  storekeeper 
had  an  interest  in  the  distillery  ? — A.  It  was  run,  the  place  that  Shaver 
had,  was  run  in  the  name  of  Dobson.  Dobson  came  and  made  the 
trade  with  me. 

Q.  For  the  corn  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  so  he  paid  it  by  the  storekeeper's  check? — A.  The  store- 
keepers gave  me  the  check. 

Q.  And  that  did  not  occur  more  than  twice? — A.  I  think  not,  sir. 

().  Do  you  know  of  its  being  done  with  any  other  merchants  besides 
yourself? — A.  No,  I  do  not. 

().  You  spoke  of  Dr.  Mott  having  no  enemies  except  political  ones  ? — 
A.  No,  I  did  not  say  that. 

Q.  Mr.  Pool  suggested  it,  and  I  thought  you  assented  to  it.  I  was 
going  to  ask  you  if  the  strongest  enemies  he  had  were  not  in  his  own 
party  ? — A.  Well,  there  are  a  few  revenue  men  there  that  have  been 
turned  out  for  some  cause,  I  do  not  know  what,  that  seemed  to  be  ene- 
mies of  his. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  that  there  are  some  men  not  in  the  revenue  de- 
partment, who  are  enemies  of  his  also? — A.  Eepublicans? 

Q.  Y(  s,  Eepublicans. — A.  I  do  not  know;  probably  Mr.  Henry  Cowles, 
who  is  at  Statesville  is,  about  all  I  know. 

Q.  You  know  whether  he  is  or  not  ?  You  say  "  probably ''.  Do  you  not 
know  ? — A.  I  have  heard  so. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  a  good  many  out  of  town  who  are  intiuential 
men  iu  the  Eepublican  party  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  as  I  do,  right  around 
there. 

Q.  You  said  that  most  of  this  resistance — you  did  not  use  the  word 
"resistance" — illicit  blockading  and  distilling  and  resistance  to  the  laws, 
w^as  the  result  of  the  Democratic  politicia)is  denouncing  the  revenue  offi- 
cers and  laws  on  the  stump? — A.  JS"o,  I  did  not  say  that. 

Q.  Just  give  us  your  own  idea  about  it.  How  was  that? — A.  They 
picked  up  this  sort  of  stuff  to  make  capital  out  of  it,  and  talked  about 
it  a  great  deal. 


118  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Do  you  think  that  tliat  iuducod  men  to  viohite  the  hiw? — A.  1 
think  it  did.  A  few  years  ajio  the  revenue  business  was  so  abused  by 
the  opposite  party  that  it  had  a  tenden<'y  to  make  the  people  have  no 
respect  for  the  revenue  law  nor  the  ofticers,  and  1  think  probably  it 
had  something  to  do  in  encouraging  blockading. 

Q.  Half  or  at  least  a  large  portion  of  those  accused  of  violating  the 
laws  were  Kepublicans,  were  they  not? — A.  1  think  not. 

Q.  What  proportion  of  them  do  you  think  were,  at  a  guess  ? — A.  I 
•cannot  tell  you;  I  have  not  thought  anything  about  that. 

Q.  You  spoke  of  its  being  safe  now,  you  thought,  for  a  man  to  go 
through  any  part  of  the  district — the  revenue  officers — except  it  might 
be  in  the  South  Mountains.  Do  you  not  know  tliat  the  South  Mount- 
ains is  a  strong  Republican  region? — A.  I  do  not  know.  I  have  never 
been  up  there  in  Burke  County.  I  believe  Burke  County  has  been 
going  Democratic. 

Q.  The  county  has;  but  has  not  the  South  Mountain  country  gone 
strongly  Eepublican  ? — A.  That  is  all  I  know  about  it;  all  I  can  go  by 
is  the  election  in  the  county.     I  have  never  been  in  the  country  myself. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  anything  about  it,  then,  and  you  think  that 
nearly  all  the  people  that  have  violated  the  law  are  Democrats  ? — A.  I 
<lid  not  say  that;  I  do  not  know;  in  fact,  most  of  the  blockading  has 
Ijeen  in  Wilkes  County,  and  those  upper  counties,  Burke  and  those 
western  counties. 

Q.  Is  not  Wilkes  County  a  Republican  county? — A.  It  is  very  close 
m  Wilkes.  I  think,  at  the  last  election,  it  was  entitled  to  two  members 
of  the  house,  and  there  was  one  Republican  and  one  Democrat  elected. 

Q.  Then  the  Republicans  had  i)robably  half  of  the  blockaders  ? — A.  I 
<\o  not  know. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  that  Mr.  Bryan  ran  for  the  legislature  there  a 
few  years  ago,  and  boasted  on  the  stump  that  he  had  been  a  blockader, 
and  called  upon  the  jieople  to  come  up  and  look  upon  a  "he-block- 
ader"? — A.  I  do  not  recollect  that. 

Q.  Did  you  not  hear  that  he  said  it  ? — A.  I  do  not  think  I  ever  heard  it. 

Q.  What  are  your  own  politics  ? — A.  I  am  a  Republican. 

Q.  How  much  have  you  heard — to  what  extent  has  tlie  rumor  pre- 
vailed, that  the  storekeepers  divided  tlieir  i»ay  with  the  distillers? — A. 
It  is  talked  about  a  great  deal ;  I  have  heard  it  often. 

Q.  Now,  as  a  matter  of  conrse,  if  a  storekeeper  did  divide  his  paj" 
with  the  distiller,  that  would  be  a  sign  that  he  was  granting  other 
favors  to  the  distillei',  would  it  not? — A.  1  do  not  know,  sir. 

Q.  xV  sign  that  he  was  under  the  distiller's  influence? — A.  I  do  not 
know  that  it  would. 

(}.  Have  you  heard  frequently  of  the  distillers  carrying  their  own 
keys!— A.  Xo,  sir;  1  know  notliiiig  about  that;  that  would  not  be 
talked  of  much;  I  nev«u'  lu'ard  that. 

(}.  Ihive  yon  lieard  of  many  iiistanci's  wlicre  storekeei)ers  would  leave 
tlie  (listiHcry  during  the  time  it  was  running  and  go  oil"? — A.  I  do  not 
know  tliat  I  iia\<^  heard  that,  sir,  without  their  leaving  soim^  one  in  the 
place.  They  go  otf  light  often  <»ccasionally,  but  generally  leave  some 
one  to  d(»  theii-  work  while  they  are  absent. 

(I.  What  ha\  e,  you  heard  about  distillers  charging  storekeepers  big 
j)ri(;es  foi'  board  ? — A.  J  have  heard  8torekee])eis  si)eak  of  paying  ex- 
travagant jdices  foi- board — as  miu'h,  some  of  them,  as  $20,  1  believe,  a 
month. 

().  W'liat  would  li(^  tli(^  usuiil  jM'ices  for  boaid  in  the  country,  not  in 
llie  town  .' — A.   I  supj)o,se  about  $8  or  $U);  the  usual  pricie  $10. 


TIIK    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NOiiTH    CAROLINA.  119 

Q.  What  have  you  licard  about  tliese  political  coutributions  ? — A. 
By  officers  ? 

Q.  Yes;  having  to  contribute  ^ — A.  Yes;  I  have  heard  a  great  many 
of  theui  say  that  they  contributed  a  check  of  -f  104  or  $108. 

Q.  For  a  month's  wages  ? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Was  it  your  understanding  that  that  was  general ;  that  the  officers 
had  to  dance  uj)  to  that? — A.  l  think  most  of  theui;  1  hav'e  heard  soj 
I  do  not  know. 

Q.  What  is  the  general  understanding  about  that  as  to  whether  all 
did  it? — A.  My  understanding  was  that  most  of  them  did,  I  believe. 

Q.  Have  you  heard  of  any  being  turned  out  of  office  because  they  did 
not  (jontribnte  ? — A.  I  do  not  think  1  ever  did. 

Q.  You  never  heard  any  of  thera  say  that  was  the  reason  they  were 
turned  out  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  purpose  the  money  Avas  applied  to,  that  was 
raised  in  that  Avay '? — A.  J  do  not;  I  do  not  know  anything  about  it 
myself. 

Q.  Did  you  hear  of  many  liei)ublicans  around  there  giving  as  high  as 
a  hundred  dollars  a  month  who  did  not  have  any  office? — A.  No;  I  do 
mot  knoAV  as  I  did.     I  never  heard  how  much  they  gave. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  of  Kei)ublicans  giving  anything  at  all  exccjjt 
those  in  otiice  '! — A.  I  do  not  know  ;  it  is  my  impression  they  did  ;  1  can- 
not say  now. 

Q.  Was  it  not  the  understanding  there  that  that  uewspaper,  tiiw 
Statesville  American,  is  supported  by  these  contributions  '! — A.  I  d  > 
iiot  think  that  I  ever  heard  that. 

Q.  The  editor  was  a  storekeeper,  was  he  not  ? — A.  He  was  a  general 
storekeeper — E.  B.  Drake,  I  think,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  know  of  his  doing  any  business  as  a  general  stoie- 
keeper  ? — A.  Oh,  yes,  1  have  noticed  him  going  out  frequently. 

Q.  Going  out  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  where  he  was  going  to  ? — A.  I  understood  that 
was  liis  business. 

Q.  The  distilleries  around  Statesville  were  not  in  his  department,  were 
they  ? — A.  I  do  not  know.  They  are  not  now  ;  I  do  not  know  whether 
they  ever  have  been  or  not. 

Q.  Do  30U  know  where  his  department  extended,  and  what  it  was  ? — 
A.  I  do  uot  believe  1  can  tell  you. 

Q.  You  have  seen  him  frequently  riding  off,  and  understood  that  was 
his  business  there  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  often  did  you  ever  see  him  do  that ;  as  often  as  once  a 
month  ? — A.  1  cannot  tell  you  how  often ;  I  did  not  take  any  notice. 

Q.  He  did  not  seem  to  be  employed  actively  every  day  on  anything 
of  that  kind  ? — A.  I  think  not,  at  least  not  from  town  every  day. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Who  is  the  editor  of  the  Statesville  Ameri(;an  ? — A.  E.  B.  Drake, 
I  believe. 

Q.  How  old  a  man  is  he  ? — A.  I  suppose  he  is  nearly  sixty  years  old. 

Q.  How  long  has  he  been  editor  of  that  paper? — A.  A  great  many 
years ;  I  do  not  remen\ber ;  1  do  not  know  how  long. 

Q.  He  is  a  man  of  high  character  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  For  integrity  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Aud  general  worth  as  a  citizen  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  reliability  ? — A.  A  reliable,  good  citizen. 


120  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  He  is  a  geutlemauly  man  in  his  bearing-  and  in  all  liis  relations  t — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  it  alleged  tliat  Mr.  Drake  neglected  his  duties 
as  a  genei^al  storekeeper? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  I  did,  sir.  I  have 
heard  a  storekeeper  or  two  speak  of  doing  his  work  off'  some  distance 
from  town,  his  home. 

Q.  You  have  gone  over,  in  the  cross-examination,  these  rumors  a  little 
more  in  detail  than  I  drew  them  ont.  Did  these  rumors  derogatory  ta 
Dr.  Mott's  administration  of  affairs  come  fj^om  the  members  of  the  Dem- 
ocratic party  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  generally,  I  thuik. 

Q.  And  were  more  rife  during  election  times  t — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  ever  take  much  part  iu  elections  yourself? — A.  No^sir; 
not  very  mnch. 

Q.  Have  these  rumors  affected  Dr.  Mott's  standing  or  character  at 
all? — A.  I  think  not,  sir. 

Q.  If  they  were  generally  credited,  really  they  would  have  affected 
his  character,  wonld  they  not? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  they^  would;  not 
noticed  there  iu  that  conntry  much. 

Q.  You  think  his  high  character  has  not  been  in  any  degree  affected 
by  the  rumors  circulated  in  this  way  ? — A.  J  think  not,  sir. 

Q.  Would  you  draw  from  that  the  conclnsion,  that  })eople  did  not  be^ 
lieve  the  rumors  really  ? — A.  Well,  sir,  I  do  not  tliink  they  are  believed 
there  as  a  general  rule;  probably  some  people  believe  them. 

Q.  During  the  eight  years  you  have  been  doing  business  in  Statesvllle 
you  have  received  in  payment  of  grain  the  checks  of  storekeepers  three 
times;  that  is,  three  checks,  two  from  one  man  and  one  from  another? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  that  is  all  the  checks  I  ever  received. 

Q.  Have  you  not  heard  of  anybody  else  having  received  them  in  the 
sanu'  way  ? — A.  I  think  not. 

Q.  How  much  were  those  checks  for — I  mean  each  one? — A.  Se\  enty- 
two  or  seventy-flve  dollars,  I  think. 

Q.  About  that  each  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Were  these  checks  of  the  storekeepers  negotiable,  and  passed 
around  from  hand  to  hand  on  being  indorsed,  like  a  bank  check? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  A  man  would  cash  a  check  for  a  storekeeper,  and  would  then  own 
it,  and  pass  it  around  from  hand  to  hand  ? — A.  Very  often  the  store- 
keepers got  the  merchants  to  cash  the  checks  for  them. 

().  This  check,  then,  wonld  belong  to  the  merchant  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

i}.  The  merchant  can  buy  what  he  pleases  with  it,  if  an^^body  takes 
it  from  him? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

(^.  Among  the  denunciations  against  the  revenue  and  revenue  ofticersi 
in  the  distiiet  was  one — I  mean  at  one  time  some  years  ago — that  they 
di<l  not  allow  men  tohave'small  stills,  so  that  the  poor  i)eopie  could  dis- 
till?— A.  J  think  that  was  stopjted  a  tew  years  ago. 

(^.  I  mean  that  somi^  years  ago  did  they  not  (h'nounce  the  revenue 
and  i(s  ;idministiation  because  it  did  not  allow  small  distilleries,  so  that 
a  poor  man  could  distill? — A.  I  cannot  answer  that  ([uestion. 

(^.  ^'()U  spoke  of  Mr.  Cowles  as  being  a  Republican;  what  Cowles  is. 
tiiat?— A.   II.  C. 

i).   Does  he  reside  in  vStatesville ? — A.   ^'es,  sir. 

(}.  ^'ou  spoki'  of  his  being  an  <'nemy  of  1  )r.  Mott  within  the  Ivepublicaii 
party? — A.   1  ha\(i  heaid  so. 

().  Do  yon  not  know  that  Cowles  has  been  seeking  tln^  ollice  that  Dr. 
.Mott  holds,  (or  some  liiiK^  piist? — A.    \'es,  sii-. 

(^.   Do  yon  not  ktiow  t  hat  lie  Inis  r;ins;ieked  f  lie  district  to  get  su|)porty 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  121 

and  to  get  up  evidence  against  Dr.  Mott  and  his  officers,  so  as  tosniiicli 
tliem  iji  the  department? — A.  I  have  heard  so. 

Q.  Did  you  liear  tliat  Cowles,  in  his  ettorts  to  get  Dr.  Mott's  phice,  and 
to  get  up  such  tliiugs  agaiust  hiui  in  this  department  to  turn  out  Dr. 
Mott,  offered  terms  to  otiicers  and  better  phices  under  him,  if  he  couUt 
get  the  place  of  collector  himself? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  I  ever  heard 
that. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  Was  it  not  Mr.  Cooper  that  Mr.  Cowles  was  getting  up  evidence 
against,  and  not  Dr.  Mott"? — A.  I  think  both. 

Tyre  Glenn  sworn  and  examined. 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  What  is  your  age  ? — Answer.  Twenty- seven. 

Q.  Where  do  you  reside"? — A.  In  Yadkin  County,  North  Carolina, 

Q.  Is  that  in  the  Sixth  collection  district? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Were  you  born  and  brought  up  there? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  was  boru' 
right  there  in  Yadkin. 

Q.  Were  you  ever  engaged  in  the  revenue  service  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  I 
am  at  present  engaged  in  it. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  engaged  in  it? — A.  I  was  appointed  in 
March,  1878  ;  I  was  not  assigned  to  duty  until  the  following  October  j 
I  think  the  22d  day  of  October,  1878,  I  entered  on  duty  as  storekeeper 
at  a  distiller^',  and  staid  at  that  distillery  then  nntil  the  July  following, 
either  the  30th  or  the  31st,  and  then  was  reassigned  to  that  distillery 
about  the  2d  of  December,  1879.  I  staid  at  that  one  until  about  the 
27th  of  April,  1881;  then  I  was  assigned  to  another  distillery  at  same 
place,  the  successor  of  the  one  I  was  working  for  before.  I  remained 
there  until  about  the  19th  day  of  June,  1881.  Then  I  went  into  the  col- 
lector's office  at  Statesville  and  remained  there  until  the  1st  day  of  last 
June ;  then  I  went  to  Yadkin  County  as  deputy  collector. 

Q.  Are  you  well  acquainted  around  through  the  district  ? — A.  I  am 
acquainted  in  Yadkin  more  than  in  any  other  county ;  not  very  well 
acquainted  outside  of  Yadkin  ;  acquainted  some  in  Iredell.  I  staid  there 
twelve  months,  in  Statesville. 

Q.  You  are  brought  into  contact  with  intelligent  men  from  the  various 
portions  of  the  district  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Y^ou  converse  with  them  on  the  snbject  of  the  revenue  ? — A.  YeSy 
sir ;  I  talk  with  them  freely  on  the  subject. 

Q.  Can  you  state  anything  in  regard  to  illicit  distilling  some  years 
ago '? — A.  I  remember  about  1875  and  187G.  That  is  as  far  back  as  I  re- 
member much  about  it. 

Q.  What  was  the  condition  of  the  district'  then  ? — A.  There  was  a 
great  deal  of  blockading. 

Q.  You  mean  by  blockading,  illicit  distilling  and  sales  of  uustami)ed 
whisky? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  There  was  a  great  deal  of  it  going  on  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  sort  of  efforts  were  being  made  to  put  it  down  ? — A.  It  seems; 
to  me  tliat  every  effort  that  was  possible  to  be  made  was  done.  They 
made  raids  into  the  county  of  Yadkin  and  destroyed  the  stills. 

Q.  Did  the  United  States  marshal  ever  go  in  force  into  the  district  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir;  the  United  States  marshal  did. 

Q.  And  made  arrests  ? — A.  Frequently  made  arrests  in  Yadkin. 

Q.  There  was  a  great  deal  of  disturbance  in  the  community  generally 


122  COLLECTION    OF    LXTERyAL    REVENUE    IN 

on  account  of  such  thiugs  ? — A.  Ye.s,  sir ;  a  great  deal  of  disturbance 
throughout  the  country. 

Q.  Did  the  people  seem  to  be  dissatisfied? — A.  Yes,  sir;  seemed  to 
be  dissatistied.  I  often  heard  them  express  themselves,  that  they  had 
a  right  to  do  what  they  pleased  with  what  belonged  to  them.  It  seemed 
Lard  to  them  to  have  tlieir  property  destroyed. 

Q.  They  had  a  right  to  distill  their  own  corn  ! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  seemed  to  be  the  sentiment  out  among  the  people  of  the  dis- 
trict?— A.  That  sentiment  was  i)retty  general. 

Q.  Was  it  encouraged  by  the  politicians  through  the  district! — A.  I 
<lon't  know  but  what  it  was  ;  think  it  was.  I  think  that  the  people  got 
that  kind  of  encouragement  from  their  public  speeches. 

Q.  Did  these  speeches  take  ground  against  the  revenue  laws,  de- 
nouncing them  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  denounced  them. 

Q.  As  oppressive  to  the  i)eople  I — A.  Yes ;  very  oppressive ;  called 
lis  "  Still-house  nosers." 

Q.  Denounced  the  revenue  officers  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  called  them  by  hard  names  ? — A.  Called  them  by  some  very 
bard  names. 

Q.  What  were  the  opprobrious  epithets  aj^plied  to  them ! — A.  Gov- 
ernor Vance  called  them  ''  Red-legged  grasshoppers." 

Q.  And  the  system  of  canvassing  there  on  the  stump  was  to  denounce 
the  revenue  law  and  the  officers? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  suppose  no  kind  of 
<loubt  about  that  by  anybody. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  anybody  denounce  Dr.  Mott  in  person  I — A. 
Ko,  sir;  I  never  heard  any  one  denounce  Dr.  Mott.  I  have  heard  citi- 
zens, some  people,  talk  about  the  doctor,  who  did  not  like  him.  They 
<lid  not  denounce  so  much  him  as  the  revenue  officers  in  general. 

Q.  Was  it  safe  on  this  ground  for  the  revenue  officers  to  go  unat- 
tended and  unarmed  through  portions  of  that  district  ? — A.  We  had 
raiders  who  made  it  their  business  to  cut  up  these  distilleries.  I  think 
it  was  unsafe  for  them. 

Q.  Were  they  freqnently  shot  at,  and  some  of  them  shot? — A.  Shot 
at  frequently  ;  I  think  there  was  a  man  by  the  name  of  Charlie  Crump- 
ler  shot  in  Wilkes  County.  That  was  the  rumor  I  heard.  There  was 
also  a  man  by  the  name  of  A.  B.  Gillespie  who  was  shot,  and  I  have 
been  tohl  by  the  officers  that  right  up  on  the  South  Mountains  they  are 
frequently  shot  at,  tbongh  none  hurt.  I  thiidv  a  horse  was  killed  on  one 
occasion. 

Q.  Do  you  think  that  that  resistance  to  the  execution  of  the  laws  was 
in  any  resi)ect  owing  to  the  course  pursued  by  the  politicians  on  tbe 
«tump  ? — A.  1  think  it  w  as  very  mu(;li  encouraged  by  them.  Of  course 
there  was  a  disi)osition  upon  the  part  of  blockaders  to  evade  and  to 
resist  also,  and  I  should  think  that  the  s])eeches  made  would  excite 
them,  and  be  calcnlated  to  make  them  offer  resistance. 

Q.  Did  you  licar,  in  addition  to  tliat,  these  rumors,  that  have  been  re- 
ferred to  here,  circiUating  througli  the  district '? — A.  Which  rumors? 

(}.  The  dividing  b«'t\v<'en  storekeepers  and  distillers  ? — A.  Oh,  yes,  nr; 
1  hav(^  lieai'd  lh('S<'  rumors. 

Q.  And  charges  of  coiiiii»tion  on  the  jnirt  of  the  oflict^rs  of  the  reve- 
nue ? — A.  ^'es,  sir.  I  ]\.i\v  heard  some  speakers  denounce  the  store- 
k(M'p('rs  and  distillers  both,  accusing  them  ol'  dividing. 

(}.  That  accusation  was  made  on  the  stunq)  of  corruption  on  the  i>art 
<>i'  th(!  ((Hicers  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

().  Was  not  that  also  calculated  to  prejudicH'the  minds  of  the  people 
■111'  tlic  (;ommunity  against  them  ? — A.   Yes,  sii'. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NOKTH    C.VltOLlXA.  123 

Q.  AVas  uot  all  this  calculated  to  eiiibaiTa.ss  Dr.  Mott  in  the  admiuistra- 
liou  of  his  office  ? — A.  Of  course  it  was. 

Q.  Aud  to  obstruct  the  proper  adiuiiiistratiou  of  the  collectiou  of  the 
internal  revenue? — A.  Of  course  it  was  cah-uhited  to  embarrass  iiim. 

Q.  That  was  five  or  six  years  ago '! — A.   Yes,  sii-. 

Q.  Has  the  matter  improved  since  then  ? — A.  There  has  been  consid- 
erable improA'ement  in  the  revenue  service  there  :  nottiie  number  of  illi 
-cit  distilleries  now  ;  there  used  to  be  a  ijreat  man  v  runninji'  in  my  county, 
Yadkin.  On  one  occasion,  I  think  in  1870,  there  was  a  raid  made  in  there, 
by  a  special  force,  and  about  twenty  distilleries  destroyed  in  one  town- 
ship. I  don't  think  there  are  any  blockade  distilleries  running  in  that 
county  now.     I  don't  know  of  any. 

Q.  Can  you  give  any  estimate  of  how  many  illicit  distilleries  Dr.  Mott 
has  had  destroyed  since  he  has  been  there  ? — A.  1  have  not  the  slightest 
idea. 

Q.  Do  you  think  they  could  be  counted  by  the  hundreds  ". — A.  Yes, 
sir ;  could  be  counted  by  the  hundreds  very  easily. 

Q.  Until  he  finally  su<;ceeded  in  breaking  them  up,  or  breaking  them 
up  in  your  county  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  broken  u});  \ery  few,  if  any,  running. 

Q.  Is  there  a  better  feeling  in  the  community  now  t — A.  Yes,  sir;  there 
is  a  better  feeling  in  the  community,  and  there  is  a  better  state  of  so- 
ciety around  there.  In  this  section  of  country  where  there  was  so  much 
blockading  going  on,  a  great  manj'  government  distilleries  are  running' 
now. 

Q.  Was  the  number  of  legal  distilleries  increased  because  they  were 
allowed  to  run  on  less  capacity  than  they  used  to  be  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  more 
than  when  they  were  required  to  run  on  a  large  scale.  I  will  give  you 
an  example  :  in  Yadkin  County,  I  think,  there  were  only  two  distilleries 
of  that  kind  at  that  time,  but  since  the  capacity  has  been  reduced,  and 
stills  of  small  capacity  are  allowed  to  run,  I  think  last  year  there  were 
between  forty  and  fifty  legal  distilleries  operating  in  that  county. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  the  rev(  nue  denounced  because  it  did  uot  allow 
them  to  run  stills  of  small  capacity,  so  that  poor  men  could  distill  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  1  have  heard  that  raised  as  an  objection  to  the  law  ;  that  a 
poor  man  could  not  distill  any,  and  only  a  certain  class  could  afford  to 
put  up  those  distilleries,  the  machinery  was  so  expensive. 

Q  Xow,  since  they  allow  them  to  run  Sh  and  4  bushel  ca])acity  dis- 
tilleries, there  has  been  a  great  improvement,  you  say  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  Do  they  denounce  that  on  the  stumi»  ? — A.  No,  sir;  don't  de- 
nounce the  small  capacity  distilleries,  but  say  they  could  not  run  with- 
out the  storekeeper  gave  a  part  of  his  wages  to  the  distiller. 

Q.  It  is  un])opular  to  do  that? — A.  Rather  dangerous  business  to  do 
that  just  now. 

Q.  What  is  the  general  character  of  the  revenue  officers  under  Dr. 
Mott?  Y^ou  have  been  associated  with  them  and  are  one  yourself.  You 
can  speak  of  those  around  you,  if  not  yourself. — A.  I  think  their  gen- 
eral character  is  good;  in  fact,  before  even  a  man  can  get  an  appoint- 
ment in  the  revenue  service,  he  has  to  be  recommended  by  substantial 
citizens  that  his  character  is  good.  The  collector  will  not  appoint  them 
unless  well  recommended  as  to  being  sober,  industrious,  and  men  of 
good  moral  character. 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  general  character  of  Dr.  Mott  personally  through 
that  district? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  1  do. 

Q.  State  what  it  is. — A.  It  is  good. 

Q.  Good  for  integrity  and  truthfulness  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


124  COLLECTION    OF    LNTEHXAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Does  he  stand  as  liigli  as  any  one  f — A.  Yes,  sir.  I  tliink  he  stands- 
as  high  as  any  man  in  that  section  of  conntry. 

Q.  Has  his  character  suffered  from  these  reports  of  corrui)tion  in  of- 
fice, in  the  estimation  of  men? — A.  i^o,  sir. 

Q.  You  woukl  draw  the  conclusion,  therefore,  that  they  are  not  be- 
lieved by  the  substantial  good  men  of  the  community? — A.  I  should 
think  so,  for  they  have  not  affected  him.  They  are  not  credited  as  a 
general  thing. 

Q.  Are  not  these  rumors,  accusations,  and  charges  looked  upon  by 
sensible  and  moderate  men  of  character,  as  more  political  clap-trap  for 
party  purposes  than  anything  else  ? — A.  I  believe  they  are.  Many  re- 
gard it  that  way. 

Q.  Could  you  say,  generally,  that  there  has  been  a  very  great  improve- 
ment in  that  district,  under  the  administration  of  Dr.  Mott  within  the 
last  four  or  live  years  ? — A.  Oh,  yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  in  the  whole  system  of  collecting  the  revenue  ? — A.  No  doubt 
about  that;  there  has  been  considerable  improvement  in  collecting  the 
revenue,  and  in  the  ofhcers. 

Q.  Is  there  less  denunciation  now  than  there  used  to  be  on  the  i)art 
of  politicians  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  I  think  there  is.  Of  course  there  is  more 
or  less,  and  always  will  be;  but  I  think  it  is  not  as  general  as  it  was. 

Q.  It  is  dying  out? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  Do  you  think  the  present  improvement  in  the  district  and  in  its; 
condition  will  make  it  less  of  an  item  in  the  coming  canvass  in  North 
Carolina? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  I  think  less  of  an  item. 

Q.  Have  the  people  become  more  reconciled  to  the  revenue  and  less^ 
prejudiced  against  it? — A.  Y^es,  sir;  less  prejudiced  against  it. 

Q.  Then  Dr.  Mott's  efforts  have  broken  down  those  obstructions  to  a 
very  considerable  extent? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  should  take  that  for  granted. 
The  collector  had  the  management,  and  it  was  owing  to  his  efforts  that 
that  result  has  been  brought  about. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  other  cause  that  would  bring  about  such  re- 
sults ? — A.  No,  sir;  can't  say  I  do. 

Q.  Has  he  appointed  Democrats  to  office  in  the  district  within  the 
last  five  years  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  Has  that  had  a  good  effect? — A.  Yes.  I  think  it  has  had  a  good 
effect;  had  a  tendency  to  keep  some  i)eople  from  abusing  the  revenue 
officers,  especially  the  men  holding  positions. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  know  a  storekeeper  to  divide  with  a  distiller? — A.  1 
liave  known  of  one  case,  because  reported — not  of  my  own  personal 
knowledge;  nothing  of  the  kind. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  sec  a  man  of  character  who  did  know  of  an  instance 
that  he  said  he  did  ? — A.  No,  sir  ;  1  don't  know  that  I  did. 

Q.  You  mean  to  say,  all  of  it  is  a  mere  matter  of  rumor  f — A.  Y^'s, 
sir;  a  mere  matter  of  rumor. 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  ehiiracter  of  Mr.  Drake,  the  editor  of  the  States- 
ville  Ameiieaii,  wiiose  name  was  called  in  (piestion  some  time  ago  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir  ;   1  think  I  do. 

Q.   What  is  his  character? — A.  His  character  is  good. 

Q.  Does  any  one  have  a  better  character  in  that  country — stand  in 
any  better  reputi^  '. — A.  No,  sir;  never  been  questioned  at  all. 

i).  Did  you  ever  hear  a  charge  against  Dr.  Mott's  character  for  in- 
tegrity and  ui>rightness  .' — A.  No,  sir. 

Cross-examination  by  tiie  Chairman: 
(^>.   What  an'  your  politics  ! — A.   1  am  a  Kci»nblicaii. 


THE    .SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  125 

Q.  You  liiive  told  Mr.  Pool,  that  the  people  generally  regard  the  de- 
iiunciatiou  hea[)ed  u])on  the  internal  rev^enue,  as  political  cla])-trap. 
1  will  ask  yon  if  the  Democrats  regard  it  as  clap-trap,  or  only  the  Re- 
l)ublicaus  so  look  ui)on  it  ? — A.  1  think  the  ])eople  generally,  because 
several  of  the  men  who  so  deuounced  it  liave  taken  i»ositions. 

Q.  They  have  come  iuto  the  lleveuue  Department  ?— A.  Yes,  sir; 
taken  i)laces. 

Q.  And  it  ceased  to  be  clap-trap  for  them  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  the  Revenue  Department  in  that  sixth  district  is 
not  a  political  machine,  and  its  officers  do  not  run  the  Republican  party 
of  the  district? — A.  They  do  everything  they  can  for  the  success  of 
the  party. 

Q.  Don't  they  organize  its  conventions,  primary  meetings,  and  furnish 
the  money  for  tlie  expenses  and  i)ayment  of  delegates  ? — A.  1  don't  know 
that  they  furnish  any  money  for  the  payment  of  delegates;  they  always 
do  all  they  can  to  organize  the  Rejniblican  party. 

Q.  Did  you  not  see  it  reported  in  the  newspapers  that  Dr.  Mott  had 
boasted  of  a  gain  of  7,000  in  that  part  of  the  district  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  it  not  fair  for  the  Democrats  to  denounce  that  as  a  political 
concern,  when  it  is  a  political  concern  ? — A.  They  may  denounce  it  just 
iis  they  please. 

Q.  Is  it  not  fair  to  denounce  it  according  to  what  it  is  considered  ? — 
A.  I  don't  think  it  is  fair  to  denounce  a  gain  they  make. 

Q.  Is  it  not  fair  to  use  every  argument  to  make  them  unpopular,  not 
l)ecause  they  are  revenue  otiicers,  but  because  they  are  ijoliticians, 
and  run  the  machine  ? — A.  I  can't  say  it  is  fair  to  use  every  argument. 

Q.  Every  honorable  arguments — A.  That  might  be  fair  to  use  every 
honorable  argument. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  some  years  ago,  especially,  the  revenue  officers 
were  not  a  rough  set,  and  rode  over  the  country  with  pistols,  and  lorded 
it  with  a  high  hand  over  the  people  accompanying  it  with  oppressive, 
tyrannical  and  insulting  conduct?  Was  not  that  the  complaint  generally 
of  the  people? — A.  I  don't  know  that  it  was.  I  have  heard  in  some  cases 
where  the  revenue  officers  acted  wrong  ;  never  heard  any  special  case  ; 
Just  rumors ;  just  the  same  as  was  denounced  heretofore.  In  the  section 
of  the  country  I  live,  I  never  heard  of  an  insult  by  a  revenue  officer 
being  made  to  any  one,  or  of  their  doing  anything  except  their  duty  in 
destroying  these  stills. 

Q.  You  said  that  a  few  years  ago  under  the  old  law  there  were  only 
two  or  three  stills  in  Yadkin  County  ? — A.  Only  two. 

Q.  And  that  now"  there  are  between  forty  and  fifty  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  Y'adkin  County  is  a  Republican  county  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  proportion  of  the  violators  of  the  law  do  you  suppose  were 
Re[)ublicans  ? — A.  I  can't  answer  that  question. 

(}.  You  would  not  pretend  to  say  that  the  Democrats  were  all  the  men 
who  violated  the  law  ? — A.  I  would  not  say  they  were  all  the  ones  block- 
ading or  violating  the  law. 

Q.  The  Democrats  would  hardly  influence  the  Republicans  to  violate 
the  law  ? — A.  I  could  not  say  as  to  that. 

Q.  You  would  not  say  the  political  speeches,  and  so  on,  which  I  used 
to  make,  when  I  called  theoi  "grasshoppers"  encouraged  the  Republi- 
cans to  go  against  their  own  party  ? — A.  They  might  encourage  any- 
body who  had  the  natural  disposition  to  go  that  way. 

Q.  Is  not  that  Brush  Mountain  country  over  there,  where  it  is  said  to 
be  dangerous  for  officers  to  go,  a  Republican  country  ? — A.  That  is  iu 
Wilkes  Countv.     That  is  considered  a  close  countv. 


12G  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  That  is  a  Uriisli  Mountain  connty  ? — A.  I  am  not  well  enongh 
acquainted  to  give  any  answer  to  that. 

(}.  How  about  Fox  Knobs  in  your  county,  between  Ham])tonville  anil 
Jonesville  ? — A.  I  think  that  is  a  Kepublicau  township ;  not  positive 
about  that.  Yadkin  is  very  strongly  Republican  ;  don't  think  there  is- 
but  one  or  two  townships  in  the  county  not  Republican. 

Q.  That  is  my  understanding.  I  know  I  have  felt  it  so ;  don't  you 
know  that  one  of  the  accusations  made  against  the  internal  revenue 
was,  that  they  arrested  and  terrorized  over  the  people  just  before  an 
election  t — A.  No,  sir.  They  always  said  then,  they  could  do  just  asthej' 
l)leased  before  an  election. 

Q.  Those  amiable  could  do  as  they  pleased,  but  those  stubborn  were 
more  than  usually  i)ersecuted.  Was  not  that  the  accusation  ? — A.  1 
don't  remember  that  accusation  at  all. 

Q.  Don't  you  recollect  one  of  the  charges  was,  that  the  marshals  and 
the  deputies  Avould  go  around  with  saddle  bags  full  of  warrants  signed 
in  blank  for  persons  that  had  unsettled  taxes,  ready  to  serve  them  on 
whom  they  pleased  ? — A.  I  have  heard  all  those  charges  made. 

().  You  have  heard  the  charge,  you  say,  that  storekeepers  divided 
with  distillers  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  that  division  was  sometimes  in  money,  but  mostly  in  board^ 
was  it  not  ? — A.  I  don't  know,  sir,  how  the  division  was  made. 

Q.  You  heard  these  rumors  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

().  Now,  if  a  man  could  run  a  3.^  or  4  bushel  still  with  a  storekeeper^ 
and  the  storekeeper  dividing  his  pay  Avith  him,  that  was  better  than 
blockading,  was  it  not  ? — A.  I  don't  know;  it  depended  how  the  block- 
ading still  was  allowed  to  run. 

Q.  It  was  a  steady  thing,  and  the  other  was  subject  to  loss  ? — A.  Yes^ 
sir. 

().  It  wouhl  be,  taking  all  the  risks  into  consideration,  a  better  busi- 
ness, in  order  to  make  money,  to  run  a  little  still,  and  get  your  store- 
kef^per  to  divide  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  a  man  could  make  money  that  way,  I 
thirds. 

().  How  much  credit  does  a  man  deserve  for  quitting  rascality  and 
making  more  money  by  pretending  to  be  honest? — A.  1  am  not  here  to 
state  whether  he  deserves  credit  for  it  or  not,  but  the  facts  as  they  are. 

i).  The  percentage  in  the  cost  of  collecting  the  revenue  is  greater 
than  it  used  to  be  there,  is  it  not  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir;  I  expect  it  is.  I  don't 
know.  1  think  that  the  government  realizes  more  with  the  increased 
<'X])ense,  than  it  did  when  the  exi^euses  were  not  so  great,  because  the 
collections  amount  to  more. 

(^.  Rut  the  i»ercentage  in  the  cost  of  collecting  is  much  more  than  it 
used  to  be.  Now  do  you  think  that  the  better  state  of  feeling  and  more 
general  obedience  to  the  law,  results  from  any  conciliatory  policy  on 
Ihe  part  of  Dr.  .Mott,  or  does  it  originate  in  the  fact  that  you  have 
stat«'d,  that  the  terms  have  been  made  easier  for  the  distillers f — A.  1 
will  just  tell  you  my  oi)inion.  Where  there  were  so  many  of  those 
blockading  distilleries  running,  for  instance,  in  my  county,  they  were 
always  afraid  of  being  icported,  an<l  the  consecinence  was,  the  i)eople 
around  the  neighborhood,  the  men  disposed  to  drink,  would  lie  ar<mnd 
those  distilh-ries  and  diink  all  the  tim«'.  These  <listillers  wer<' afraid  to 
dii\e  tlieni  olf.  Cor  fear  they  would  report  them.  Rut  now  with  these 
siii;ill  distilleries,  running  aeeordiiig  to  law,  these,  men  can't  get  anything 
to  (liink  there,  and  the  distillers  are  at  perfect^  libeity  to  order  them  otf,. 
and  tlie\ can't  renoil  them.     That  has  been  m\  idea. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  127 

Q.  Is  there  a  legal  distillery  in  the  county  of  Yadkin? — A.  T  think 
tliere  is. 

Q.  I  mean  now,  coui])lete  in  all  respects,  with  buildinjjs  and  ware- 
honses  sufficient,  and  the  locks  upon  the  cistern  rooms,  receivin*;"  i)ipesy, 
and  all  that. sort  of  thing:,  as  the  law  requires  1' — A.  Yes,  sir;  F  think 
all  as  the  law  recpiires;  [  examined  four  or  five  of  them  last  week,  and 
found  them  in  yood  condition.  They  have  been  examined  by  revenue 
agents  there  wlio  reported  them  according  to  the  laws  and  regulations. 

Q.  Have  you  read  the  report  of  Revenue  Ageut  Tracie  ? — A.  He  was^ 
not  in  my  county. 

Q.  Has  there  been  any  case  in  that  county  of  whisky  disappearing" 
out  of  the  warehouse! — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  there  was  one  case  about 
two  or  three  months  ago. 

Q.  Was  the  whisky  found  or  accounted  for! — A.  No,  sir;  never 
found. 

Q.  Who  was  the  storekeeper? — A.  The  distillery  was  under  suspen- 
sion, the  keys  in  the  hands  of  the  general  storekeeper. 

Q.  Who  was  he? — A.  G.  W.  Sharpe,  of  Statesville. 

Q.  What  distillery  was  that?— A.  The  distillery  of  B.  F.  Jones,  at 
Panther  Creek. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  Dr.  Mott  allows  his  subordinate  officers  to 
drink  liquor? — A.  He  does  not;  he  issued  an  order  some  time  ago  to. 
that  efifect;  that  he  would  discharge  any  man  for  drinking. 

Q.  Some  years  ago  he  issued  that  general  order? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  think 
it  was  about  four  or  five  years  ago,  probably  longer  than  that. 

Q.  That  he  would  discharge  any  officer  that  he  knew  had  taken  a 
drink  of  liquor? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  say  that  the  per  cent,  which  it  costs  to  collect  the  revenue 
vsince  these  changes  and  improvements  were  made  by  Dr.  Mott,  is  greater 
than  it  was  before? — A.  I  forget  whether  I  stated  that  or  not;  I  know 
but  little  about  the  cost  erf  collection;  only  know  of  making  a  table  iu. 
the  office  on  one  occasion,  to  find  out  whether  the  go\'ernment  realized 
more  under  this  increased  expense  system,  than  it  did  before  when  the 
expenses  were  not  so  much,  and  found  out  it  did  realize  more  now  than 
a  few  years  ago  when  the  expenses  were  not  so  great. 

Q.  So  that  an  increase  of  expenses  has  been  attended  by  increased 
recei[>ts  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  the  result  is  that  the  government  gets  more  money  '? — A.  Out 
of  it  now  than  when  the  expenses  were  not  so  nuich. 

Q.  There  is  more  in  it? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  so  this  change  to  the  government  and  to  the  service  has  had 
the  efilect  to  make  the  expenses  greater? — A.  Yes,  sir;  under  the  pres- 
ent system  the  expenses  are  increased  by  this  mode  of  distilleries  start- 
ing up,  through  more  storekeepers  being  on  duty. 

Q.  You  think  then  that  the  permission  to  allow  the  running  of  dis- 
tilleries of  snmll  capacity  has  resulted  in  increasing  the  amount  of  money 
the  government  gets? — A.  Yes,  sir.  -njt 

Q.  And  it  is  a  benefit  to  the  morals  of  the  community? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
in  the  way  I  stated  a  moment  ago. 

Q.  It  has  made  the  community  more  peaceful? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  has  stopped  the  circulation  of  these  various  reports,  and  mere 
denunciation,  in  some  measure  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  the  state  of  affiiirs  is  a 
great  deal  better  than  a  few  years  back. 

Q.  The  revenue  matter  then  would  not  be  so  likely  to  enter  as  an  ele- 


128  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

iiient  into  the  campaign  as  before? — A.  I  suppose  it  will  always  enter 
as  an  element,  but  not  have  so  much  intiuence  as  it  had. 

Q.  It  is  likely  that  the  denunciation  of  internal  revenue  in  that  dis- 
trict, would  not  be  of  as  mnch  benefit  to  the  Democratic  party  in  the  cam- 
paign, as  it  has  been  heretofore  ? — A.  ]S^o,  sir;  don't  think  it  will ;  a  great 
many  Democrats  are  running  distilleries. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  distillers  have  to  give  a  bond  every  month  f — 
A.  They  have  to  give  a  bond  for  all  the  whisky  in  the  warehouse  every 
mouth.  They  reuew  the  distiller's  bond  once  a  year;  give  a  new  bond 
*veiy  year. 

Q.  Is  there  any  difficulty  in  giving  large  bonds  in  that  country? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  considerable  difficulty  in  getting  them. 

Q.  A  man  who  ran  a  distillery  of  large  capacity  would  have  to  give 
a  much  larger  bond,  of  course? — A.  Of  course,  in  proi)ortiou  to  the 
amount  he  makes. 

().  By  allowing  the  running  of  small  distilleries  it  enables  men  to  give 
bonds  that  could  not  otherwise  do  so? — A.  Yes,  sir;  otherwise  they 
<jould  uot  do  this. 

Q.  Could  a  man  make  money  by  running  a  still  of  this  small  capac- 
ity?— A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  he  can. 

Q.  How? — A-  1  know  the  man  I  storekept  for  has  made  money;  he 
had  machinery  and  a  good  ordered  distillery,  and  sold  the  whisky  from 
$1.35  to  $1.50  a  gallon.  The  distiller  told  me  he  was  making  money  at 
it,  not  making  a  large  amount,  but  a  living  at  it.  He  had  a  great 
many  hogs  and  cattle. 

Q.  What  capacity  was  it? — A.  Four  and  a  half  bushels. 

Q.  He  kept  stock  to  fatten  them? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  it  necessary  to  run  one  of  those  stills  the  year  round  in  order 
to  make  money? — A.  You  could  make  more  by  running  the  year  round, 
because  in  the  time  susj)ended,  you  would  have  to  feed  corn  to  the 
stock. 

Q.  ]3id  you  divide  with  that  distiller? — A.  Xo,  sir;  I  did  not. 

Q.  Did  you  divide  with  any  distiller? — A.  I  never  storekept  but  at 
one  place. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  know  any  storekeeper  to  divide  with  a  distiller? — 
A.  No,  sir;  I  have  no  iiersonal  knowledge  of  anything  of  the  kind.     ^ 

Q.  Did  you  ever  see  anybody  who  said  he  had  personal  knowledge  of 
it  ?— A.  No,  sir. 

(}.  Have  you  ever  heard,  or  ever  been  convinced,  that  it  was  an  abso- 
lute fact  that  dividing Imd  been  done  by  anybody  at  all? — A.  The  dep- 
uty collector  of  that  <'ounty  told  me  that  if  Dr.  Mott  could  get  a  case  of 
that  kind  he  would  ])rosecute  the  man  for  it,  and  to  try  and  get  up  a 
case. 

Q.  Dr.  Mott  told  him  to  try  and  fiiul  out  if  there  was  any  truth  in 
tliis  lumor^  'J'hcn  thos(^  denouncing  Dr.  Mott,  or  Dr.  Mott  himself,  so  far 
as  you  have  ever  Innuxl,  have  found  no  case? — A.  No,  sir;  never  found 
a  case,  1  believe. 

(^.  Are  not  many  of  the  distillers  in  that  county  truthful  men? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

().  And  to  be  believ(ul  on  oath? — A.  A  good  nuiny  of  them. 

(}.  It  was  generally  un<lerstood  through  the  district  that  Dr.  Mott 
would  i»rosccute  an<l  <lis<'li;iige  any  man  who  did  divide? — A.  I  don't 
know  thill  it  wiis  gcneriill.x'  undcistood.  1  Just  mention  it  in  connection 
with  wIkiI  the  deputy  told  me.     1  su])))ose  it  was  generally  understood. 

().  Di<l  he  tell  you  it  was  a  secret? — \.  No,  sir;  not  as  a  secret  at 
all. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA,  129 

Q.  Is  it  your  Ju(l;!4iii(Mit,  and  your  observation,  and  your  knowledge, 
as  a  mail  of  business,  that  any  i)rnd('nt  man,  running'  a  distillery  of  4 
bnsliels,  could  make  mon(,\v  legitimately  by  that  busiiu^ss  ■ — A.  Yes,  sir ; 
1  think  lie  could,  if  he  keeps  everything  in  good  shape;  his  machinery 
in  good  condition,  and  his  material  all  the  time  on  hand,  and  runs  it  on 
a  business  ]uincii>le. 

Q.  And  tliat  Avithont dividing  witii  storekeepers  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  Avitli- 
out  dividing  with  storekeepers, 

Q.  Do  yon  think  the  business  of  distilling,  in  small  distilh^ries,  is  a 
good  and  protitable  business  in  that  district? — A,  Yes,  sir ;  about  as 
profitable  as  any  business  a  man  can  be  engaged  in,  in  that  section  of 
country. 

Q.  The  running  of  one  of  these  small  distilleries  legitimately,  without 
any  violation  of  law? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  I  forgot  to  ask  you  if  yon  knew  of  any  stills  being  divided  in  Yad- 
kin County  ? — A.  I  don't  know  of  a  single  case  of  that  kind. 

Q.  Did  the  men  who  run  the  large  stills,  when  the  new  system  was 
introduced,  continue  to  run  the  large  stills  ? — A.  There  were  two  of  them. 
One  of  them,  Benton,  quit  business  altogether,  and  went  into  tlie  whole- 
saling. Williams  running  only  his  distillery ;  he  just  cut  down  the  tubs, 
reducing  their  cai)acity,  using  the  same  building,  etc. 

Q.  You  say  you  never  heard  of  any  one  well-authenticated  case  of  a 
storekeeper  dividing  his  pay  with  a  distiller  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  hear  what  ]\rr.  Thomas  Templetou  swore,  that  lie  paid 
Tom  Coo]ier  830  a  month  for  board  ? — A.  No,  sir  ;  1  did  not  hear  any- 
thing about  it. 

Q.  What  is  the  usual  price  for  board  in  that  county  ? — A.  I  really 
don't  know  ;  I  think  from  about  $8  to  810  aiul  $12.  It  depends  a  good 
deal  upon  a  man's  situation, 

Q.  Was  there  any  farm-house,  or  respectable  place  of  that  kind,  where 
they  would  ask  $30  a  month  for  board  f — A.  No,  sir ;  I  think  not. 

Q,  So  if  a  man  swore  he  paid  a  distiller  $30.  a  mouth  for  board,  that 
would  be  a  case  of  dividing,  w^ould  it  not  ? — A.  I  don't  know,  sir, 

Q.  What  would  you  call  that  ? — A.  I  would  call  that  liigli  ])rices  for 
board, 

Q.  Did  you  never  hear  a  distiller,  or  a  storekeeper  either,  say  that 
they  had  divided  ])ay  ? — A.  No,  sir;  never  did,  and  I  never  heard  of  a 
case  of  high  prices  for  board. 

By  3Ir,  Pool  : 
Q.  Suppose  a  storekeeper  had  a  horse  ? — A,  If  he  had  a  horse  then  I 
should  think  that  would  be  a  little  high. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q,  $30  for  a  nuui  ai^d  horse  would  be  considerably  high  ? — A,  AVould 
be  right  high  price;  yes,  sir. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Don't  you  know  Mr.  Templeton  did  keep  a  horse  ? — A.  I  don't 
know  anything  about  that  circumstance. 

Q,  Was  it  not  very  conunou  for  storekeepers  to  keep  a  horse  to  ride 
home  on? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  especially  if  assi.Lned  to  any  distance  from 
home, 

Q.  Do  you  know  wliere  Tem])leton  lives  ? — A.  I  don't  know  him  it  all. 
S.  :Mis.  HC 0 


130  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Was  there  not  some  sort  of  amnesty  got  up  by  the  government  and 
introduced  by  Mr.  Cbapmau,  a  government  agent,  for  past  offenses,  if 
men  would  come  in  and  take  out  a  license  f — A,  I  don't  know.  There 
were  some  men  the  district  attorney  susi)ended  judgment  for,  by  their 
paying  the  costs,  and  starting  u})  goverimient  distilleries.  As  to  a  gen- 
eral amnesty,  I  don't  know  as  to  that. 

Q.  Don't  you  know  that  Mr.  Cbapmau  made  that  arrangement  with 
men  that  were  blockading,  not  to  indict  them,  or  anything  of  tliat  sort, 
if  they  agreed  to  start  regular  distilleries,  and  tliey  might  get  off  on  the 
payment  of  the  costs? — A.  Only  heard  of  that  one  case. 

Adjourned  until  Thursday,  June  29,  10  a.  m. 


Washington,  D.  C,  June  29, 1882. 

The  committee  met  at  10  a.  m. 

A.  H.  Brooks  sworn  and  examined  for  the  government. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  AVhereis  your  present  residence  ! — Answer.  I  am  stationed 
at  Greensboro,  N".  C,  at  present.     My  home  is  in  Newark,  N.  J. 

Q.  Are  you  connected  with  the  internal  revenue  service? — A.  I  am, 
sir. 

Q.  In  what  capacity? — A.  As  internal  revenue  agent. 

Q.  That  is  known  in  our  country  as  special  agent  ?—^A.  No,  sir;  they 
are  different;  they  are  in  the  customs  service. 

Q.  Your  proper  designation  is  internal  revenue  agent? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  in  North  Carolina  ? — A.  I  have  been  there 
several  times,  but  the  last  time  most  of  the  time  since  August,  1880, 
with  some  exceptions ;  I  have  been  home  and  assigned  to  duty  in  other 
places  a  little  of  the  time. 

Q.  Have  you  given  much  attention  to  the  condition  of  the  service  in 
the  sixth  district  ? — A.  Not  a  great  deal  of  my  time  has  been  gi\en  to 
that.  I  will  explain  how  1  have  been  on  duty  there.  1  was  sent  down 
in  July,  1880,  to  make  some  arrangements,  or  to  see  if  some  arrange- 
ments couhl  be  made — some  plan  adopted  to  break  up  the  illicit  tobacco 
traflic.  I  suggested  a  system  to  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Ivcvenne, 
which  lie  ad()i>ted.  and  I  have  been  in  charge  of  that  most  of  the  time. 
I  was  in  charge  of  that  until  January  a  year  ago,  when  I  was  instructed 
to  tal<e  charge  of  the  second  and  fourth  districts  oi"  North  Carolina.  In 
addition  to  this  s]»ecial  duty  I  was  on,  on  the  5th  of  August  I  was  or- 
dered to  take  uj)  the  New  Y(nk  division,  and  on  the  loth  of  Octobei  I 
was  relieved  of  that,  and  sent  back  to  North  Carolina  and  i)utin  charge 
of  all  the  districts  of  that  State,  in  addition  to  this  s])ecial  work  ot 
looking  after  the  tobacco;  so  that  since  October  I  have  been  in  charge 
of  the  State. 

(}.  ^  (»u  iiad  still  other  agents  at  work  who  )'eported  to  yon,  did  you 
not  '. — A.  \ Cs,  sir;  since  October  1  have  had  iJevenue  .\gents  McLeer, 
Mr.  Harrison,  and  other  men,  sjx'cial  assistants. 

().  Now,  from  your  own  obseixation,  and  from  the  report  of  your  sub- 
ordinate agents,  aie  you  pictt.N  well  ac(|uaiiiled  with  the  condition  of 
the  sixth  district  ' — A.  At  the  present  time?    Yes,  sir. 

Q.  ^-'an  yow  gi\e  us  any  inlbi  niation  in  regard  to  the  di\  iding  of  dis- 


THE    SIXTH    DLSTKICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  131 

tillcries  into  smaller  oue.s;  when  was  tba't  system  adopted  ;  what  was  it 
<l()iic  for,  and  so  on? — A.  Dividing-  the  distilleries  into  smaller  ones  ' 

Q.  Yes. — A.  I  don't  know  anything  of  that. 

Q.  I  see  some  of  your  reports  si)eak  of  that. — A.  I  don't  remember 
such. 

Q.  Maybe  I  ean  reeall  your  attention. — A.  There  are  some  instances 
Avhere  one  man  has  more  than  one  distillery.  I  thought  they  might  be 
•consolidated. 

Q.  In  your  report,  nuide  to  Commissioner  liaum  on  the  17th  of  De- 
<iember,  you  use  the  following  language  :  "  The  starting  of  two  registered 
distilleries,  only  a  few  feetai)art,  both  owned  l)y  the  sanu'-  i)erson,  when 
one  would  answer  all  purposes  so  far  as  capacity  is  concerned,  looks  to 
me  as  if  the  distiller  found  two  storekeei)ers  and  gangers  more  profita- 
ble than  one."  It  is  that  subject  that  I  wish  to  inquire  about. — A.  I  had 
no  reference  to  the  distilleries  in  the  sixth  district  there;  I  was  referring- 
to  two  distilleries  in  the  fifth  district  at  that  time.  This  is  a  general 
re])ort  covering  the  State. 

Q.  Your  report  is  endorsed  ''In  regard  to  storekeepers  and  gangers 
in  the  sixth  district''  ? — A.  It  is  a  general  report.  I  think  they  asked 
for  it,  if  I  could  not  make  suggestions  as  to  drawing-  the  lines  a  little 
closer  on  the  distilleries,  etc.  The  Commissioner  sent  me  a. letter  to 
that  effect.  I  do  not  recall  an  instance  of  that  kind  in  the  sixth  district. 
That  was  where  a  distiller  had  two  distilleries  within  fifty  feet  of  one 
^juother  in  Pearson  County. 

Q.  Were  there  no  such  cases  reported  to  you  in  Iredell  County,  in 
the  sixth  district,  of  distilleries  being  very  close  to  each  other  and 
owned  by  the  same  parties? — A.  There  were  some  distilleries  close  to 
each  other  and  owned  by  the  same  parties  in  the  sixth  district. 

Q.  Were  any  such  ever  reported  to  you  b}^  Mr.  Tracie  in  Gaston 
County  f — A.  He  never  reported  to  me. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  others  that  were  reported  to  you  from  other 
sources  in  Gaston  County? — A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not  recollect  now  of  any 
in  the  county.  I  had  all  the  distilleries  examined  and  reported  on  down 
there. 

Q.  Were  any  instances  reported  to  you  where  the  storekeepers  were 
selected  by  the  distilleries? — A.  There  were  somewhere  an  attempt  was 
made. 

Mr.  Pool.  Y'ou  are  confining  the  witness  to  the  sixth  district? 

The  Chairman.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Witness.  I  remember  of  one  instance  where  an  attemi^t  was 
made  to  do  that,  but  I  don't  think  the  man  succeeded. 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  of  any  instance  reported  to  you,  where  distillers 
and  storekeeper  divided  the  pay  of  the  storekeeper  ? — ^A.  I  have  heard 
those  kind  of  rumors  ever  since  I  have  been  down  there,  that  there 
was  such  a  thing,  but  I  don't  remember  of  any  case  in  that  district 
where  we  could  get  satisfactory  proof. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  case  where  exorbitant  prices  were  charged 
for  board  ? — A.  I  know  from  reports  simply,  sir,  and  I  picked  it  up  from 
others — other  storekeepers  there.  In  my  judgment  they  were  paying- 
too  nmch  for  board  for  that  section.  It  was  a  low  board,  but  high  in 
that  country. 

Q.  In  this  report  I  hold  in  my  hand,  you  say.  after  acknowledging  the 
•Commissioner's  letter  asking  you  to  inquire  into  certain  charges  against 
the  sixth  district — storekeepers  and  gangers,  and  so  on — "  I  have  the 
lionor  to  state  that  to  make  a  satisfactory  rei)i)rt  upan  th3  subjects 
iibove  referred  to  would  require  a  much  longer  time  than  I  would  feel 


132  COLLECTION    OF    LXTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

justified  in  delaying-  an  answer  to  your  letter.  Since  tliereot-ipt  of  your 
letter  I  Lave  made  inquiry  in  regard  to  the  cbarge.s  again.st  store- 
keepers and  gangers,  but  lia\e  been  unable  to  obtain  any  ])roof  sus- 
taining said  charges,  yet  I  am  inclined  to  believe  there  is  some  truth 
in  the  charges  made  against  said  officers,  not  only  aitplicable  to  officers 
in  the  sixth  district,  but  in  this  and  other  southern  districts.  You  are 
ju'obably  aware  that  in  starting  registered  distilleries  in  this  section, 
the  collectors  and  their  subordinates  in  many  cases  had  to  use  con- 
siderable persuasion  to  satisfy  the  distillers  that  their  object  in  getting 
them  to  oi>erate  registered  distilleries  was  not  for  the  purpose  of  get- 
ting them  in  trouble  with  thegovernment ;  for  at  that  time  many  of  the 
distillers  liad  this  idea.  For  the  purpose  of  inspiring  confidence  in  the 
distillers,  no  doubt  their  friends,  or  i)ersons  in  whom  the  distillers  had 
confidence,  have  been  recommended  for  the  i)osition  of  storekeeper 
and  ganger,  and  assigned  to  duty  as  i)er  recpiest  of  distillers."  What 
did  you  base  that  upon  ? — A.  Just  on  my  belief  at  the  time. 

Q.  And  a  belief  is  generally  founded  on  something,  Mr.  Brooks  ' — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Y"ou  had  some  information  that  made  you  have  that  belief'^ — 
A.  Y'es,  sir;  1  had  information  from  the  other  officers  that  satisfied  me 
there  was  something  in  that. 

Q.  Vou  say  further:  "In  many  cases  storekeepers  and  gangers 
board  with  the  distillers,  and  it  is  said  that  these  officers  pay  one  half 
their  salary  for  board,  when  other  ])eople  not  interested  in  the  dis- 
tilling business  would  board  them  for  ten  dollars  a  month." — A.  Tliat 
was  the  report  I  got. 

Q.  Xow  could  you  furnish  the  committee  with  the-names,  so  that  it 
can  iuipiire  into  tlie  exact  state  of  the  facts  ? — A,  1  don't  know  tluit  I 
could  ;  1  i»robably  could  if  1  had  all  my  memoranda  here. 

Q.  Y'ou  go  on  to  say  :  "All  these  distilleries  are  very  snudl  and  can  be 
closed  with  little  or  no  loss  to  the  distiller,  thus  sto])ping  the  pay  of  the 
storekeeper  and  ganger,  so  that  in  a  country  like  this,  where  so  many  of 
such  officers  are  enii)loyed,  I  should  not  be  surprised  to  find  some  who 
would  comi)ly  with  the  wishes  or  demands  of  the  distillers  in  order  to 
draw  i»ay  from  the  government." — A.  Y'es,  sir;  that  was  an  unfortunate 
thing  about  the  law.  The  law  does  not  pay  them  anything  if  they  do 
not  run  ;  if  not  on  duty  ;  they  are  paid  per  diem.  Of  course  when  a  dis- 
tillery closes  it  shuts  off  the  storekeeper's  pay,  and  so  it  is  all  over  the 
country. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  examine  or  have  examined  officially  by  your  officers 
the  condition  of  the  distilleries  ami  warehouses  throughout  the  dis- 
trict ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  have  been  doing  that  work  recently. 

(^.  AN'ith  a  view  of  ])revent  ing  fraud.' — A.  AVe  examined  them  Avitli  a 
view  of  seeing  that  they  complied  with  the  law  and  regulations.  AVe 
ins]>ect  them  on  a  regidar  form  as  ])i(»vided  by  the  de]>artment  for  that 
puriKtse.  It  has  on  it  quite  a  number  of  (juestions ;  1  tliink  some  twenty 
or  o\er. 

Q.  About  locks,  etc.  ^' — A.  Locks  and  i)i[)es  painttnl,  receivers,  etc. 
It  requires  an  answer  to  all  those  (juestions. 

(}.  NN'liat  I  want  to  know  is,  what  condition  did  you  lind  those  things 
in  when  you  made  an  official  examination  of  them? — A.  The  distd- 
h'l  ies  .' 

i).  \'es. — A.  There  were  some  in  bad  eondil  ion,  others  in  fair  eomli. 
tiou.  W'hereNcr  we  found  an.\  thing  wrong,  it  was  reported  ami  the  col- 
lector  nolifu'd,  ami  the  oiiginal    repent    forwarded  to  the  de]>artment. 


THE    .SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  133 

Tlieu  they  wrote  a  letter  back  instructing  compliance  witli  the  law  in  re- 
gard to  tbose  things  found  wrong.  ]<^or  instance,  if  the  pii)es  were  not 
painted — the  law  requires  the  pipes  to  be  painted — different  colors,  black 
tor  spirits,  white  tor  water,  blue  for  low  wines.  A  great  many  of  these 
little  places  do  not  have  them  painted.  In  many  instances  they  had 
been  painted,  but  the  paint  had  worn  off,  and  they  were  not  painted 
when  the  olticers  were  there. 

Q.  Were  a  great  many  warehouses  reported  to  you  as  insecure,  and 
could  be  easily  entered  ? — A.  Some  of  them  ;  yes,  sir.  Some  iu  that  dis- 
trict and  in  the  others. 

Q.  Were  any  reports  made  to  you  of  the  insufheiency  of  the  locks  iu 
those  various  places  which  were  required  to  be  loc^ked  ? — A.  In  some  in- 
stances I  think  the  officers  recommended  additional  locks  for  certain 
places,  and  sometimes  boxes  for  locking  the  cocks  up. 

Q.  Were  any  reports  made  to  you  of  storekeepers  leaving  their  distil- 
leries and  being  absent  a  considerable  part  of  the  day  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Were  reports  made  to  you  of  the  insufticient  gauging  and  the  fail- 
ure to  weigh  and  measure  meal  and  material  for  the  distilleries,  and  so 
on  ? — A.  I  don't  recollect  about  the  weighing  of  meal.  In  most  of  these 
little  distilleries  the  meal  was  brought  on  the  premises  on  the  day  it  was 
used  In  some  instances  they  have  boxes  provided  where  they  lock  the 
meal  up.  I  don't  remember  any  case  where  the  meal  was  not  weighed. 
There  may  have  been  seme,  however. 

Q.  Taking  it  altogether,  from  your  knowledge  of  the  condition  of  the 
distilleries  and  warehouses,  the  efhciency  and  knowledge  of  their  duty 
of  the  officers,  etc.,  what  proportion  of  s]>irits  produced  in  the  sixth 
district  do  you  think  the  government  gets  taxes  for,  at  a  rough  guess  '? 
It  is  only  from  your  information  that  I  wnnt  it. — A.  The  distilleries  of 
that  State  are  surveyed  at  two  gallons  and  a  half  to  the  bushel.  They 
xire  required  to  produce  SO  per  cent-  of  that  amount,  which  is  two  gal- 
lons. And  a  majority  of  them,  I  think,  i)roduce  that  amount;  that  is, 
two  gallons  for  every  bushel  of  grain  that  is  used. 

Q.  In  fact  and  in  truth,  now,  how  much  more  than  two  gallons  is  pro- 
duced from  the  bushel  ? — A.  That  depends  npoii  the  distillers  appa- 
ratus, and  the  knowledge  of  the  business  which  the  distiller  has.  In 
these  districts  there  are  some  men  who  will  produce  over  two  gallons 
ar.d  a  half  to  the  bushel.  The  majority  of  them  produce  two  gallons, 
and  some  of  tlu  m  produce  less  than  two  gallons ;  while  in  the  West  our 
distillers  who  have  the  facilities  produce  four  gallons  to  the  bushel,  and 
l)ay  taxes  on  that  amonnt.  These  small  distilleries  have  nothing  but 
little  copper  stills;  but  Western  distillers  use  steam,  and  mash  large 
quantities;  some  of  them  as  high  as  tive  thousand  bushels  per  day. 

(}.  You  have  still  not  answered  my  ([uestion.  What  proportion  of 
the  whisky  made  by  these  stills  does  not  pay  taxes  to  the  government  ? — 
A.  I  am  not  able  to  answer  that  question.  It  is  my  belief  about  it — I 
believe  they  get  away  with  some  of  it.  I  believe  there  are  others  that 
do  not  know  enough — they  are  careless,  and  do  not  sufficiently  under- 
stand how  to  get  out  of  the  grain  what  is  in  it.  I  cannot  form  an  esti- 
mate of  the  amount  of  whisky  that  does  not  pay  taxes. 

Q.  Has  it  not  been  reported  to  you  that  many  of  the  distillers  believe 
that  so  they  make  but  two  gallons  to  the  bushel,  all  over  that  amount 
was  clear  to  them  ? — A.  There  has  been  a  sort  of  belief  of  that  kind ; 
that  is  to  say,  some  of  them  have  an  idea  that  all  they  are  required  to 
make  is  80  per  cent,  of  the  two  and  a  half  gallons.  If  they  make  that, 
it  is  all  right. 


134  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

O.  Do  jou  know  bow  many  storekeepers  and  gangers  there  are  in  that 
district  ? — A.  I  do  not,  sir. 

Q.  1)0  you  have  an  idea  what  proj^ortion  are  in  employ  at  one  time  ? — 
A.  So,  sir.  Sometimes  qnite  a  number.  At  tliis  time  of  the  year,  I 
think  there  is  not  a  quarter  of  them  employed.  I  do  not  know  how 
many  are  employed,  but  in  the  summer  time  these  little  places  close 
down,  and  start  u]>  when  they  get  in  their  crops,  and  go  ahead  again. 

Q.  Did  you  say  it  had  been  reported  to  yon,  or  your  officers,  that 
storekeepers  went  off  and  left  their  distilleries'? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Of  course  the  distiller  had  it  then  all  his  own  way,  did  he  not? — 
A.  Well,  sir,  I  think  that  iu  most  of  the  instances  they  were  caught 
away  that  everything  was  locked  ui> ;  that  is,  the  locks  were  locked ;  but 
they  had  no  business  to  leave. 

■Q.  And  frefpiently  the  distillers  would  have  the  key  when  the  store- 
keepers w(  uld  leave? — A.  I  don't  know  that. 

Q.  You  know  that  was  reported  to  you;  of  course,  I  am  asking  what 
you  are  officially  informed  of — you  have  no  personal  knowledge? — A.  I 
don't  recollect  of  such  a  case  in  that  district  just  now.  Quite  a  number 
of  men  have  been  removed  or  dismissed,  for  leaving  their  distilleries 
when  they  were  in  operation,  but  they  had  the  keys,  and  sometimes^ 
designated  a  man  to  act  for  them. 

Q.  They  had  given  the  key  to  somel)ody? — A.  Designated  somebody 
there  in  the  neighborhood  to  have  the  keys;  something  of  that  kind  I 
believe. 

Q.  Describe  the  duties  of  the  storekeeper  and  general  storekeeper? — 
A.  The  duties  of  the  storekeepers — these  are  storekeepers  and  gangers 
now — it  is  his  duty  to  be  at  the  distillery  when  the  distillery  commences 
operations  in  the  morning,  and  remain  there  till  they  get  through,  and 
weigh  the  grain  as  it  comes  on  the  premises,  and  weigh  it  as  it  is  thrown 
into  the  mashes;  to  keep  a  general  supervision  of  the  bnsiness  and  see 
that  all  the  vessels  are  closed  and  tight  through  which  the  spirits  passes- 
into  the  cistern-room.  He  carries  the  key  of  tlie  cistern-room,  and  when 
they  have  sufficient  spirits  to  draw  off' — they  must  draw  off'  not  less 
than  once  in  three  days — he  draws  it  oft'  in  packages,  gauges  it,  takes 
the  i)roof  of  it,  affixes  to  the  package  a  stamp  furnished  by  the  de]»art- 
ment,  called  a  warehouse  stamp,  and  marks  the  seiial  number  on  the 
package  and  the  distiller's  name  and  district,  and  cancels  the  stamp  and 
places  it  in  the  warehouse,  for  which  he  also  carries  the  key.  AVhen  a 
distiller  wishes  to  i)ay  the  taxes  on  the  spirits  in  the  warehouse  he 
makes  an  a]tplication  to  the  collector  for  a  stamp  and  sends  him  the 
money.     W'lien  that  is  done  the  stamp  is  forwarded. 

().  To  whom  ? — A.  To  the  storekeei>er  and  ganger — that  is.  where  the 
distillery  is  in  ojjeration — and  he  aftixes  the  stamp  to  the  package,  with- 
draws it,  and  makes  an  entry  on  his  books,  and  he  also  makes  other 
entries. 

().  On  the  amount  of  grain,  t.\:e.  ? — A.  ( )n  t  he  anu)unt  of  grain  received 
on  the  jnemises  and  in  the  mashes  of  the  vessels  (illed  and  em])ty;  he 
takes  the  gl■a^■ity  of  the  beer  at  noon  every  day,  and  enters  in  his  book 
tliese  ]»ae]<ages  when  withdrawn  from  the  warehouse,  taxes  i)aid. 

C^>.  \\'lien  does tlie  geneial  storekeejjer  come  in, ami  how? — A.  AVhen 
the  distiller  snspeiMls  opeiations,  the  storekeejter  and  ganger  turns  over 
his  l>ooks  and  keys  to  tiie  collectoi'.  The  collector  then  jtlaces  the  keys 
in  the  (Mistody  of  the  general  storekeejx'r,  who  Inis  <piite  a  nund)er  of 
such  snspended  distilleries  ]»robably,  in  his  di\  ision.  He  has  a  certain 
numbei- of  eonnties  to  attend  :  or  if  there  is  a  large  number  of  distilleries 
in  one  ediinty.  it  isdixided.     When   the  distiller  makes  an  application 


THE    SIXTH    DISTEICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  135 

to  pay  taxes  on  the  spirits  in  such  wareliouse  he  has  to  ^o  and  affix  the 
tax-i>ai(l  staiiii)s  to  the  ])roper  ]>acka.i;es,  and  delivers  them  from  the 
warehouse  to  the  custody  of  the  distilhM\ 

Q.  Whose  duty  is  it  to  stamp  and  (h'liver  the  liquor  when  the  owner 
wants  to  sell  it  from  a  warehouse  whih;  under  suspension? — A.  Tlie 
j^eneral  storekeeper,  who  has  charge  of  a  number  of  warehouses  where 
the  distilleries  aie  not  in  operation. 

Q.  They  are  usually  divided  by  counti<'S,  or  if  a  lar^i^e  number  of  dis- 
tilleries are  in  one  county  they  are  sub(li\i(led  ? — A.  That  would  be  the 
case.  I  don't  know  of  any  county  divided  in  that  State.  If  there  were 
more  than  one  man  could  do  in  a  county,  they  would  be  justilied  in 
dividino-  the  county  and  having  two  men. 

Q.  What  notice  is  required  when  a  distiller  is  going  to  suspend  ? — A. 
He  has  to  forward  a  notice 

Q.  1  mean  how  many  days  notice,  or  is  there  any  time  fixed  '? — A.  He 
lias  to  give  sufticient  notice  to  allow  the  collector  to  notify  the  deputy  to 
close  it.     It  is  their  duty  to  close  the  distilleries  and  open  them. 

Q.  Is  there  any  penalty  or  loss  attached  to  a  distiller  who  closes  with- 
out giving  notice  ? — A.  Without  giving  notice  1 

Q.  After  giving,  notice  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Does  he  incur  no  penalties  for  stopping  ? — A.  Xot  in  a  regular 
way.  If  he  closes  without  giving  notice  they  would  assess  up  to  the 
time  the  notice  was  given. 

Q.  If  he  gives  notice  he  can  quit  without  any  loss  or  penalty  to  him- 
self f — A.  Yes,  sir;  so  far  as  I  know. 

Q.  A  man  running  a  small  four-bushel  still  can  close  without  much 
trouble  at  any  time  he  wants  to  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  with  some  exceptions — 
where  the  distiller  is  feeding  stock. 

Q.  Unless  he  has  something  depending  on  the  distillery  ? — A.  If  he 
has  cattle  or  stock  depending  on  the  products  of  the  distillery  he  cannot 
suspend  without  loss. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  Is  the  tax  levied  on  the<listiller  according  to  his  capacity — that  is 
to  say,  during  the  time  he  is  running  he  is  charged  the  minimnm  capacit\' 
of  his  still  every  day  ? — A.  He  is  surveyed  at  a  certain  capacity,  and  he 
is  required  to  ]>roduce  80  per  cent,  of  that  capacity.  If  he  falls  below 
that  capacity,  he  is  assessed  for  the  difference. 

Q.  If  he  shuts  oft'  for  a  tinie,  he  wonld  be  charged  80  per  cent,  of  his 
capacity  till  he  reported  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  if  he  closed  without  giving  no- 
tice. If  he  notified  the  office  that  he  would  close  on  a  certain  time  and 
does  close,  that  lets  him  out,  provided  he  has  made  his  80  per  cent,  of 
his  cai)acity  during  the  month. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  What  I  am  after  is  this  :  the  owner  of  a  small  distillery,  who  has  no 
interest  that  would  suffer  by  his  closing,  has  the  storekeeper  pretty  nuich 
at  his  mercy,  has  he  not? — A.  That  is  unfortunately  so  all  o\'er  the  country. 
It  stops  the  storekeeper's  pay  by  closing  the  distillery. 

Q.  It  is  very  probable,  you  say,  then,  in  these  reports,  that  the  temp- 
tation is  very  great  for  the  storekeeper  to  divide  his  pay  with  the  dis- 
tiller, in  order  to  keep  the  still  running? — A.  Yes,  there  is  that  much 
temptation. 

Q.  And  the  meaning  of  that  is,  that  the  government  is  paying  for  the 
running  of  these  distilleries,  if  that  is  so,  that  the  storekeeper  does  di- 
vide, indirectly  of  course? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  the  government  cares 
much  whether  those  distilleries  run  or  not. 


13(J  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  But  if  tLe  money  paid  to  tbe  storekeeper  goes  to  tlie  distiller  to 
iiidiiee  bim  to  run,  it  is  indirectly  the  government  ])aying  Lim  to  run. 
Since  you  have  been  acquainted  with  that  district  has  there  or  not,  been 
a  diminution  of  blockading",  as  we  call  it  down  there,  or  illicit  distilling? 
— A  Yes,  sir,  there  has  been  a  very  great  diminution;  in  fact,  in  all  the 
States  that  is  the  case,  since  I  first  knew  anything  about  i*^.  There  has 
been  a  very  great  imjjrovement  all  over  the  country. 

Q.  Do  you  attribute  that  improvement  to  tliis  system  of  allowing  small 
distilleries  to  run  ? — A.  In  a  great  measure,  I  attribute  it  to  that.  There 
are  other  causes  in  connection  with  that.  In  my  judgment,  it  is  attrib- 
utable, in  a  great  measure,  to  the  starting  of  these  small  distilleries, 
wiiich  made  the  distillers  interested  in  keeping  the  l)lockaders  down. 

Q.  Did  3'ou  ever  make  a  calculation,  or  ever  consider  the  condition  of  a 
man  running  an  illicit  distillery  with  all  the  risks  and  accidents  iniddent 
to  his  having  to  keep  it  secret,  and  one  running  a  distillery  where  the 
storekeeper  paid  the  distiller  half  his  pay;  is  not  the  one  much  more 
profitable  than  the  other? — A.  Well,  sir,  I  think  the  illicit  distillery 
would  be  the  more  i^rofitable. 

Q.  If  he  could  lun  with  impunity  it  would  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  AVell,  it 
does  not  cost  n  uch  to  start  one  of  those  distilleries. 

Q.  It  costs  right  smart  if  he  is  caught  at  it? — A.  ^Vell,  unfortunately 
it  does  not  either,  sir. 

Q.  What  is  the  reason? — A.  These  people  have  a  great  deal  of  sj'm- 
pathy,  and  when  we  get  them  into  court,  it  is  a  very  hard  matter  to  con- 
vict them. 

Q.  But  these  lawyers  do  not  have  much  sympathy  for  them;  they 
charge  them  pretty  heavy  fees  don't  they  ? — A.  AYell,  they  get  after  them 
pretty  lively  sometimes.  Those  little  m.n  have  not  got  very  much,  and 
and  I  guess  they  do  not  get  so  much  out  of  them.  There  are  a  few  men 
engaged  in  timt  business  that  have  got  money  and  made  luoney,  but,  as 
a  rule,  an  illicit  distiller  is  a  very  poor  miserable  man,  who  drinks  up  a 
good  deal  of  the  profit;  his  neighbors  also  all  get  around  and  drink  with 
him,  and  by  the  time  he  gets  his  old.  kettle  cut  up  he  has  not  made  a 
great  deal  out  of  it,  but  he  can  run  and  make  a  little.  It  depends  upon 
how^  good  a  hiding  place  he  gets. 

Q.  What  do  you  suppose,  outside  of  the  material,  is  the  cost  of  run- 
ning one  of  those  little  four-bushel  stills,  where  the  owner  operates  it? — 
A.  Labor  down  there  is  renmrkably  cheap,  and  wages  are  cheap.  The 
people  are  satisfied  to  work  for  little  money;  fifty  cents  a  day  for  a  dis- 
tillery hand  is  paid,  and  considered  very  good  pa}*,  in  many  cases,  tor 
a  coloreil  man,  I  believe. 

(^>.  A  common  nnin  ? — A.  An  ordinary  man;  fifty  cents  I  have  heard 
of  being  ]»aid ;  in  fact,  they  told  mo  so.  The  cost  above  the  grain  is  not 
very  great.  The  grain  is  the  i»rincipal  cost  after  getting  their  api)ara- 
tus  up,  and  then  it  all  d('])ends  ujton  the  price  of  the  grain  ami  the  price 
of  the  whisky. 

Q.  Now,  if  a  storek('e|K'i'  re(;eived  si  a  day,  and  would  gi\e  half  of  it 
to  one  of  these  Jitth'  distilleries,  that  $.5  would  ran  tlu;  wliole  machine, 
would  it  not  ? — A.  'J'hat  de])(;nds  upon  the  cost  of  the  grain. 

(^.   i  mean  outside  of  the  grain. — A.  O,  yes,  I  thiid<  it  would. 

(^.  More  too  ? — A.  Ves,  sir.  The  grain  now  is  high  down  there.  Some 
illicit  distillers  we  broke  uj)  theie  were  paying  !$1.1M  a  bushel  for  (.'orn. 

<^.  IIa\«?  you  seen  theic,  in  that  countiy,  much  lesistance  to  the  offi- 
( <'is.or  only  an  e\  asion  of  the  law? — A.  Not  since  I  have  been  in  charge. 
I  kn<»\\  that  xcars  ago  thcic  was  a  great  deal  of  trouble  in  the  district. 
I  was  down  llincand   had   some   knowledge   of  the   fact.      I5ut  since  I 


THK    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  lo? 

have  been  theie  wv  liavu  lia<I  very  little  trouble.  In  faet,  I  do  uot  know 
of  a;i  instance  wlieie  a  man  was  fired  at,  or  an  attempt  was  made  to 
run  a  man  out  of  the  district,  since  I  have  had  cliar.ue  of  it.  In  some 
of  the  other  districts  they  have  shot  at  the  men,])nt  I  do  not  think  any- 
l>ody  was  hurt — probably  more  to  scare  them. 

Q.  Shot  at  to  scare  them  ? — A.  To  notify  the  men  to  .yet  out.  Xo  one 
lias  been  hurt  in  the  State  since  I  have  been  there  in  cliarge. 

Q.  What  do  you  know  about  the  levying  of  political  assessments  in 
that  district  by  the  collector  and  his  oHicers? — A.  Well,  sir,  1  know  of 
it  by  having'  to  investigate  a  matter  not  pertaining  to  that,  but  espe- 
cially to  another  matter,  in  which  that  instance  came  up. 

(j).  You  made  an  investigation  of  the  levying-  of  assessments  for  office 
expenses'? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  see  in  that  report  you  find  one  man,  a  storekeeper,  that  had 
given  something  over  $100. — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  Y^ou  say  he  was  a  poor  man,  with  thirteen  children? — A.  That  is 
what  he  said;  I  did  not  see  them. 

Q.  In  that  report  you  do  not  give  his  name.  AVillyou  now  give  us 
his  name  ? — A.  I  thought  his  name  was  in  there. 

Q.  It  may  have  been  in  the  papers  you  referred  to,  l)ut  it  is  not,  I 
thiidc,  in  the  report.  Did  you  ascertain  how  these  sums  were  collected — 
whether  the  deputy  collector  went  around  with  blank  checks  and  re- 
quired the  officers  to  sign  them  ? — A.  Well,  sir,  that  was  the  information 
I  got  in  iuvestigating  it — that  tliey  came  there  and  asked  them  to  sub- 
scribe something. 

Q.  In  your  report  of  April  20,  1881,  jou  sa}^,  "  In  regard  to  the  two 
officers  who,  it  was  rumore<l,  had  paid  or  had  retained  from  their  salary, 
one  1900  and  the  other  $400,  I  have  to  say  that  I  have  seen  the  person 
referred  to  as"  having  paid  the  $400.  He  is  a  poor  man,  with  a  wife  and 
thirteen  children,  and  pays  the  distiller  $1  per  day  board.  He  did  not 
want  to  talk  about  the  matter,  but  linally  made  the  following  statement : 
He  was  appointed  storekeeper  and  gauger  in  1874,  but  has  not  been  on 
duty  all  the  time;  he  said  he  kept  a  memorandum  of  the  amounts  he 
paid  just  to  see  if  he  was  keeping  his  end  up;  he  says  he  has  paid  iu 
all  over  $400,  l)ut  that  all  of  it  was  paid  for  political  [)ur])oses,  with  the 
exception  of  $'2  or  $3  paid  for  office  expenses.  He  states  that  he  made 
all  the  payments  of  his  own  free  will,  and  has  no  fault  to  find  with  any 
one  ;  with  the  exception  of  his  last  payment,  he  has  paid  all  in  currency. 
The  last  time  he  signed  a  blank  check  and  placed  it  in  the  hands  of  the 
division  deput}',  who  brought  it  to  him,  with  the  understanding  that  it 
was  to  be  tilled  up  for  $104,  the  amount  of  his  salary  for  June,  but  as 
there  was  no  money  available  for  June  salaries  the  check  was  tilled  u}) 
for  $108,  the  amount  of  his  salary  for  July,  with  his  consent.''  Can  you 
give  us  the  name  of  that  gentleman? — A.  1  do  not  think  I  can  now; 
1  thought  the  name  was  in  there. 

By  I\rr.  Pool: 
Q.  Was  that  in  the  sixth  district? — A.  Yes,  sir;  in  the  sixth  dis- 
trict.    I  cannot  think  of  his  name. 

By  the  (.'hairman  : 

Q.  ^Vas  it  Tem[)leton? — A.  J  am  not  sure;  one  of  tlie  i)arties  was 
Templeton. 

Q.  Do  you  know  tlie  name  of  the  distiller  to  wliom  he  paid  $30  per 
month  for  board  ? — A.   Y'es,  sir;   I  think  he  was  then  iu  AVdkes  County, 


138  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

or  ill  tbe  corner  of  Iredell  County,  and  it  was  one  of  the  Coopers — I 
tliiidv  AVilliani  Cooper. 

Q.  Was  it  not  the  present  eolleetor,  tbe  gentleman  who  succeeded  Dr. 
Mott  ?— A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  ^fr.  Templetou  said  it  was,  I  l)elieve. 

]\Ir.  Pool.  Xo,  sir;  William  Cooper. 

The  Witness.  No,  sir;  it  was  not  at  Thomas  Cooper's,  I  know  that. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  There  is  no  reference  here  to  Mr.  Templeton's  name,  \n\t  I  took  it 
for  granted  that  it  was  the  same  man,  because  he  said  he  had  thirteen 
children. — A.  I  think  that  is  the  man  that  I  saw  at  William  Cooper's 
distillery  when  I  went  there. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  it  was  not  an  understood  thing  among  the  officers 
of  that  district,  and  I  have  no  right  to  inquire  into  any  otlier,  that  they 
were  to  pay  ])olitical  assessments,  when  called  upon,  and  that  they  all 
did  it  ? — A.  AYell,  sir,  T  could  not  say  as  to  that.  Those  men  that  1  saw 
all  claim  to  have  paid  them  willingly  and  didn't  object  to  it  at  all. 

Q.  I  am  just  after  the  fact  that  they  did  pay  it. — A.  I  only  saw  a  few, 
an(l  those  were  men  that  had  reported  they  had  paid  .$104  for  office  ex- 
penses, and  I  had  to  go  and  see  them  and  see  what  it  was  for. 

Q.  You  found  out  it  was  for  campaign  expenses  instead  of  office  ex- 
l)enses  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  campaign  iiistea<l  of  office  expenses. 

Q.  Did  you  understand  that  this  was  general,  and  not  a  few  officers 
selected  out  to  pay  these  campaign  expenses,  but  that  it  was  imposed 
upon  all  of  them? — A.  I  do  not  know  as  I  can  answer  that.  T  believe 
that  a  great  many  of  them  paid;  I  cannot  say  that  most  of  them  paid. 

(}.  Do  you  know  of  any  who  did  not  pay  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  I  think  I 
know  of  men  who  did  not  pay. 

(^).  While  they  were  at  work  ? — A.  I  cannot  say. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  as  to  where  the  money  went  ? — A.  I  do 
not.  sir. 

().  Do  you  know  of  any  distillers  who  refused  to  run,  unless  they 
could  get  storekeepers  to  suit  them  ? — A.  I  had  one  such  case  reported 
to  me  not  long  ago.  It  was  in  a  case  where  a  storekeeper  had  been 
assigned,  whom  1  considered  a  very  good  man,  and  when  he  went  there 
the  distiller  refused  to  start  with  him. 

(}.  8  lying  what  ? — A.  They  had  a  dispute  as  to  how  much  he  would 
l>ay  for  his  board.  The  man  said  he  would  pay  for  himself  and  the  kee]) 
of  his  horse  exactly  what  he  could  get  it  for  at  another  place  around 
there.  The  distiller  said  he  was  not  going  to  run  and  wanted  some- 
body else,  wluneupon  I  went  to  Dr.  Mott  and  gave  him  the  facts,  an<l 
lie  remarked  that  that  distiller  should  iK)t  have  the  man  he  wanted  if 
lie  never  run;  that  lie  would  have  to  run  with  a  storekeei)er  that  was 
assigned  to  him  or  (ptit. 

(}.  Do  you  know  the  storekeeixn's  namethiit  he  wanted  ? — A.  1  don't 
recollect  it  now.  1  tliiiik  I  made  a  report  there,  and  it  may  be  men- 
tioiK'd  in  that. 

().  It  seems  you  sent  Mr.  Mcli"er  to  see  him  ;  the  distiller's  name  was 
riyler  .' — A.   Yes,  sir:  that  was  the  distiller's  name, 

().  MeL  -er  icports  thathe"met  Mr.  IMylerathis  house,  where  he  i)ays 
special  t  i\  as  an  li.  ii.  1).  He  said  he  intended  starting  up  his  distil- 
lery again  if  he  could  get  the  kind  ol'  a  storekeei»er  he  wanted,  but  un- 
less a  ston^keepi'r  would  do  just  as  he  said  he  would  be  dainn(^«l  if  he 
conhl  stay  around  there.  Mr.  IMyleiloId  me  that  no  storekeeper  could 
come  there  who  would    not    pay  him  a  dollai'  and  a  half  per  day  (or  his 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  130 

board.  I  am  iiiforraed  that  Storekeeper  Hoover,  who  was  with  Plyler 
when  lie  shut  down,  is  an  honest,  reliabh*  man.  I  think  Plyler  sus])ende(l 
in  order  to  get  clear  of  Hoover.  Plyler  at  once  made  application  for 
another  storekeeper,  and  the  collector  assigned  Storekeeper  J.  P.  Doug- 
lass; he  went  to  the  distillery,  but  when  he  heard  Plyler's  terms  he  re- 
fused to  stay." — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  ''  I  have  reported  the^e  facts  to  Dr.  Mott,  and  he  says  that  uidess- 
Pl.Nlcr  will  startup  with  Storekeeper  Douglas  he  will  have  to  remain 
under  suspension."  Did  you  hear  of  any  other  case  than  this  one? — A. 
X(»,  sir  ;  1  don't  think  I  have.  That  was  a  barefaced  piece  of  business. 
I  don't  recollect  of  any  other  now.  We  reported  everything  we  found 
in  every  district. 

Q.  I  see  that  you  made  an  investigation  in  the  matter  of  collecting- 
office  expenses  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

i).  The  assessment  Avas  levied  for  1  per  cent,  a  montli  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  much  would  that  have  yielded  if  levie<l  on  the  officers  of  the 
whole  district? — A.  H'  they  all  paid  ? 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  I  never  have  known  exactly;  never  charged  my 
mind  as  to  how  many  men  were  in  that  district.  There  is  a  large  num- 
ber, probably  two  hundred  and  fifty  officers,  if  not  over,  in  that  district — 
that  is,  commissioned  officers,  you  understand.  I  do  not  mean  that 
many  are  on  duty  all  the  time.  I  think  registered  in  the  district  there 
are  probably  three  hundred  of  those  grain  distilleries. 

Q.  Are  there  not  over  three  hundred? — A.  In  the  neighborhood  of 
three  hundred,  but  they  are  not  all  running. 

Q.  At  the  same  time? — A.  JSTo,  sir;  sometimes  they  cose  down  for 
various  causes.  For  instance,  last  summer  most  all  the  branches  ran 
dry,  and  at  other  times  the;s  stopped  for  want  of  grain,  and  for  other 
causes. 

Q.  But  you  suppose  that  there  are  two  hundred  and  fifty  officers  at 
least  on  duty? — No,  sir;  not  on  duty. 

(,).  (Quoting.)  "At  one  time  or  another  during  the  year,"  you  say? — 
A.  At  one  time  or  another,  not  steadily  on  duty,  1  suppose  they  would 
be;  while  I  don't  ])retend  to  state  from  my  knoAvledge  of  the  case;  I 
never  gave  it  my  attention. 

Q.  You  made  an  investigation  of  this.  I  see,  by  the  report  you  have- 
made,  that  there  was  considerable  more  collected  than  was  accounted 
for  as  being  disbursed? — A.  Yes,  sir.  There  was  a  balance  on  hand  at 
the  time  I  went  tlieie. 

C^).  Do  you  know  what  was  done  with  that  ? — A.  I  do  not.  1  reported 
all  the  facts. 

Q.  T\"ere  there  not  allowances  made  by  the  department  for  office  ex- 
])enses? — A.  There  were,  for  certain  expenses,  yes,  sir;  but  there  were 
other  expenses  that  they  ^'ere  incurring  there  for  which  there  Avas  no- 
allowance  made  at  the  time. 

Q.  Xow,  this  is  the  amount  of  disbursements  here :  By  amount  of 
cash  paid  to  Henry  Dean,  a  sort  of  messenger  in  the  office? — A.  Henry 
Dean  was  a  colored  V)oy  employed  in  and  around  the  office.  There  was- 
no  allowance  for  the  boy  at  the  time  tliis  circular  was  sent  out. 

Q.  He  is  paid  ten  dollars  a  month  according  to  this  disbursement  re- 
port.— A,  I  think  he  was  paid  at  that  time  ten  dollars  a  month. 

Q.  I  see  further  in  this  list  of  disbursements,  "for  glass  lamps  and 
oil,"  "paying  exi)ress  charges  on  stami)s,"  "candles,"  "washing  Avin- 
dows,"  "kerosene  oil,"  "telegrams,"  "tacks,"  "postage,"  "shade  lam])" 
"(three  of  them),"  "oil  can  and  oil,"  "exi)ress  charges  on  unpaid  remit- 
tance," "express  charges  on  books,"  "postage,''  "blank  book,"  "oil  and 


140  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

iiiatc'hes,"  "blacking/'  "cbemicals  for  eloctric  writer,"  "wood,"  "iron,' 
"mail  basket,"  "dipper,"  "drayage,"  "co])yiiig-  i)ress,"  "cbeek  book," 
"  table,"  "pigeon  holes  for  files,"  "partition  in  oflice,"  and  so  on,  and  so 
on.  Xow,  was  there  no  allowance  made  for  such  items  by  the  depart- 
ment?— A.  I  think  not. 

Q.  Was  not  an  allowance  made  for  them  under  the  head  of  office  ex- 
l^enses! — A.  Under  the  head  of  office  expenses  there  was  the  rent  of 
the  office,  I  believe,  l^ovr,  1  have  not  seen  their  allowance  ;  I  just  speak 
from  Avhat  I  gathered  there.  There  was  an  allowance  for  rent,  and  the 
owner  of  the  building  furnished  some  things  covered  in  the  rent. 

Q.  Was  there  not  an  allowance  for  stationery  and  blank  books  for  the 
office  ? — A.  Yes;  they  were  sent  on  a  requisition  from  here. 

Q.  Was  there  not  an  allowance  for  printing  ? — A.  I  think  not,  sir ;  not 
for  printing,  but  for  advertising  I  think  there  is.  In  that  district  there 
were  a  great  many  officers,  and  you  sometimes  ha^e  to  get  out  a  circular 
letter.  Xot  long  ago  I  had  to  send  out  a  circular  to  be  given  to  every 
storekeeper  and  ganger  in  the  district ;  we  required  it  to  be  printed.  I 
went  to  Dr.  Mott  and  he  ordered  it  ]ninted,  agreeing  to  pay  the 
charges,  whatever  they  would  be.  That  was  recently.  Advertising,  I 
ihink  likely  was  paid. 

Q.  If  yen  look  over  here  can  you  tell  whether  all }  our  reports  are  present 
or  not — I  mean  all  your  special  reports? — A.  I  think  you  have  there  all 
the  special  reports.  I  was  on  special  duty  in  charge  of  tobacco  at  the 
time  these  were  written,  and  investigated  this  as  a  special  case  that  was 
sent  me  in  addition  to  my  other  duties.  But  since  taking  charge  of  the 
State  my  reports  on  all  the  districts  go  forward  daily. 

Cross-examination  by  Mr.  Pool: 

Q.  Was  this  matter  of  assessing  for  office  expenses  done  openly  in 
that  district — no  secret  about  it,  and  nothing  underhand  about  it  ? — A. 
Xot  at  all ;  open,  no  secret.  They  sent  out  a  circular  to  all  those  people 
stating  there  were  some  expenses  for  which  the  government  made  no 
allowance,  and  it  was  not  fair  for  some  of  the  officers  to  pay  these  and 
not  others;  an<l  they  asked  the  others  to  contribute,  and  assessed  them 
1  per  cent,  on  the  monthly  salary  for  the  payment  of  these  expenses, 
wlii(;li  the  officers  there  were  i)aying  out  of  their  i)ockets. 

(}.  Do  you  not  know  that  some  of  them  never  paid  anything? — A.  I 
l)elieve  there  were  a  great  many  who  never  paid.  I  know  that  a  large 
number  di<l  not  pay  anything. 

(^>.  There  was  enough  money  to  answer  the  purpose  contributed,  and 
the  others  who  did  not  pay  were  not  i)ressed  ? — A.  I  do  not  think  there 
was  any  attemi)t  to  press  anybody  to  pay;  they  just  sent  it  along  at  the 
end  of  the  month,  when  they  got  their  salaiy.  They  sent  a  dollar  and 
a  postage-stainj),  or  four  cents. 

(^.  You  said  there  was  a  balance  on  hand.  How  great  was  the  l»al- 
anc'c  une.\])<'n(h'd  at  that  time? — A.  I  think  about  a  hundred  and  fifty 
dollars  was  there  when  I  counted  the  cash  out.  ((^)uoting.)  ''Total  cash 
«.n  hai  d  I)ee(  mber  S,  ISSO,  sl5l  ,-';-V." 

().  \iH\  said  you  did  not  know  wljat  became  of  tlie  balance  ? — A.  Xo, 
>ii  :  I  did  not  inxcst igate  it  fiiit her  than  that  the  monev  was  there  when 
I  U-\'\. 

(^.  \\';is  I  lie  iii(»iM\  let  iinied  to  the  men,  or  expended  in  the  ordinary 
May  ! — A.    I  do  not   know  . 

<).  l>id  yon  find  anvlliing  there  liial  looked  like  dishonesty  on  the 
part  <»l'l)r.  Moll  in  eoniieclion  with  this  matter.' — A.  1  found  nothing 
there  thnt  looked  ;i  nU  li  i  ii'^  like  dishoiK  sty  on  t  lie  part  of  I  )]•.  Mot  f.      The 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    N.JKTH    CAROLIXA.  141 

most  I  fouii  I  was  carelessness;  and  tlic  circuilar  should  not  ]ia\'e  Ijccn 
sent  out. 

Q.  What  was  your  general  conclusion  after  investigating  the  whole 
matter? — A.  My  conclusion  was  as  stated  in  the  circular;  as  they  had 
tilings  to  get,  and  the  people  in  the  office  were  getting  them,  I  thought 
the  others  should  help  to  bear  the  expense.  Then  there  was  careless- 
ness in  the  mannerofkeei»iugthe  accounts.  The  accounts  were  not  made 
out.  1  saw  the  doctor  itrevious  to  my  visit,  and  showed  him  the  circular, 
and  asked  him  when  I  met  him  in  Greensboro,  at  that  time  supposing 
he  had  not  known  anything  about  it.  He  said  yes,  and  explained  it 
to  me,  and  told  me  to  go  there,  and  that  I  should  find  everything  all 
right ;  that  they  kept  an  account  of  it,  and  that  I  would  find  everything 
written  up.  I  went  there  and  I  did  not  find  it  in  very  good  sha])e.  The 
thing  was  all  in  a  bunch  and  the  enti'ies  were  not  nnide.  1  had  to  give 
them  time  to  make  u]>  a  statement,  which  they  did.  After  they  made 
me  up  the  statement  then  I  made  my  report. 

Q.  The  government  lost  nothing  by  this  matter  at  all;  none  of  this 
came  out  of  the  United  States  Treasury? — A.  No,  sir;  the  government 
was  a  little  in  by  it. 

Q.  The  government  saved  money  by  it? — A.  Yes;  this  was  i)aid  for 
what  the  government  ought  to  have  furnished. 

i}.  It  is  a  very  large  district? — A.  Large  in  territory. 

Q.  Do  you  think  it  was  an  unreasonable  thing  to  be  done,  to  ask  those 
men  to  contril)ute  their  share  of  the  ofrtce  expenses? — A.  It  ought  not 
to  have  been  done;  but  it  was  hardly  fair,  I  think,  for  a  few  officers  to 
have  to  pay  it  all.     The  government  ought  to  have  ])aid  all  this  expense. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  Dr.  Mott  made  an  ai)plication  and  tried  to 
get  the  government  to  pay  it  I — A.  I  understood  he  did. 

Q.  But  after  his  failure  to  get  it  from  the  government,  and  part  of 
the  ofiicers  failing  to  pay,  do  you  think  it  unfair  to  send  out  and  get 
from  the  others  a  sort  of  general  ])roportion  ? — A.  It  was  out  of  the  reg- 
ular order  of  things.     It  was  not  fair  for  him  to  have  to  pay  it. 

Q.  I  do  not  speak  of  it  in  that  sense,  but  as  a  matter  of  honesty  and 
of  ethics  and  morals. — A.  I  do  not  think  tnere  was  anything  dishonest. 
It  was  ]nirely  a  matter  of  business, 

Q.  What  did  the  Commissioner  do  about  it  ? — A.  He  ordered  it  stopped, 
I  think,  immediately. 

Q.  Did  he  make  some  allowance  to  cover  these  things  ? — A.  I  do  not 
know,  sir,  whether  then  or  not.     I  do  not  know  as  to  that. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  that  the  messenger  had  been  provided  for,  and 
these  assessments  had  been  stopped  before  you  made  the  investigation 
at  all  ? — A.  I  understood  that  they  were  not  collecting  any  more.  They 
had  a  balance  and  had  not  asked  any  further.  That  was  the  only  cir- 
cular they  sent  out.  I  don't  know  that  they  issued  an  order  that  they 
should  not  do  it.  The  thing  dropped,  and  there  was  no  need  of  any  or- 
der. I  do  not  know  that  an  order  was  issued  to  stop  it,  but  there  may 
have  been. 

(}.  You  say  there  was  nothing  to  indicate  that  the  money  was  col- 
lected, except  for  the  legitimate  purpose  for  which  it  was  purported  to 
be  collected? — A.  It  a[>peared  to  me  that  wav — what  the  circular  called 
for. 

Q.  You  say  you  saw  a  few  who  ])aid  campaign  assessments;  how 
many  did  you  see  who  had  paid  these? — A.  I  will  explain  to  you  how  I 
came  to  see  them  if  you  wish  it. 

Q.  Yes. — A.  On  account  of  this  incidental  expense  account  being 
carelessly  and  loosely  kept,  I  suggested  to  the  department  to  send  a  cir- 


142  COLLECTIOX    OF    INTERNAL    KEVEXUE    E\ 

€ular  letter  to  all  those  men  askiiij^-  tlieiii  to  n'i)ort  what  they  had  ])ai(l, 
so  as  to  compare  and  see  whether  the  tliiuj;-  was  right.  That  was  sent 
into  the  district,  and  some  of  tliese  men — storekeepers  and  gangers — 
answered  the  letter,  and  in  place  of  saying  they  paid  so  mnch,  or  did 
not  pay  anything  to  tliese  incidental  office  expensts,  tliey  reported  that 
they  had  paid  S104  or  6108,  that  they  contribnred  for  campaign  pur- 
poses :  and  it  was  these  people  who  reported  that  whom  1  saw. 

Q.  These  people  made  that  mistake  ? — A.  They  made  that  mistake  in 
reporting  for  incidental  expenses  that  which  they  paid  for  something 
■else. 

Q.  There  were  no  more  than  four  or  five  of  these  ? — A.  I  do  not  think 
there  were. 

Q.  You  know  some  other  officers  in  the  district  who  did  not  pay  any- 
thing for  campaign  purposes? — A.  Some  men  did  not  pay  anything. 

Q.  Were  they  turned  out  of  office  on  account  of  it  ? — A.  I  never  heard 
of  it. 

Q.  Were  they  put  to  any  trouble,  or  uuder  a  cloud,  on  account  of  it  ? 
A.  1  never  heard  anything  of  that  kind. 

Q.  Did  3'ou  see  anything  to  indicate  that  the  payment  for  campaign 
])urposes  was  ever  at  any  time  anything  other  thau  voluntary  ? — A. 
No,  sir;  I  never  knew  of  any  man.  I  just  got  that  from  those  people  I 
saw  and  visited ;  they  were  pertectly  willing  to  i)ay. 

Q.  You  never  saw  anything  to  the  contrary  of  that? — A,  Xo,  sir;  I 
<lo  not  recollect  anything. 

Q.  Is  it  not  common  all  through  the  country,  even  here  in  Washing- 
ton, to  make  assessments  on  officers  for  campaign  purposes? — A.  They 
-tlo  not  assess  them,  they  ask  them  to  contribute. 

Q.  That  is  what  I  mean,  of  course.  There  is  no  authority  to  assess, 
but  they  ask  contributions  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  Is  it  uncommon  even  for  the  little  clerks  in  the  departments  here 
ill  S\'ashington  to  make  i)olitical  contributions  ? — A.  I  cannot  say. 

(^.  You  did  not  find  anything  of  an  extraordinary  nature  down  there 
on  that  subject  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Of  course,  when  I  am  si)eaking  of  assessments  on  these  officers 
around  Washington,  I  mean  by  that,  assessments  by  the  national  or  Cou- 
<^ressional  committees. — A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  understand  what  you  mean.  1 
Ijelieve  they  are  asked  to  contribute,  and  do  contribute. 

Q.  Don't  you  know  that  in  other  localities  through  the  country  that 
the  local  officers  holding  government  positions  inside  of  a  State  are  as- 
,sesse<l  for  local  campaign  pur])oses? — A.  The  State  officers  ? 

(^.  Yes,  sir. — A.  (3,  yes,  on  both  sides. 

(^.  These  assessments  are  much  lieavier  than  the  general  ones  put  out 
by  tiie  Congressional  committee,  are  they  not  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  as 
to  that ;  they  may  or  may  not  be. 

Q.  J)on't  30U  know  the  men  who  send  out  circulars  assess  o  or  10  ytev 
4-Atut.  on  their  salaries  ? — A.  For  local  State  oHicers  ? 

(}.  Yes,  sir.  J  don't  mean  >SV^^/t' ollicers,  I  mean  ("nited  States  officers 
in  a  State,  as  contradistiiiguislied  from  IJnited  States  officers  engaged 
liere  at  the  capital. — A.  I  think  in  the  Stateof  North  Carolina  they  are 
.sent  out  by  tlie  Statt;  committee. 

Tiie  CiiAiKMAN.    l>y  wliat  party  ? 

'I'lic  W'rr.M-ss.  I5y  the  i;epnl>bcan  party.  1  do  n  »t  kniwabjiit  the 
<i|  hers. 

\',\  .Mr.  I'<K»L  : 
■^(^.   is  n<  t  iliatcominon  in  the  othei- State  >  ? — A.   1  s;ip;  os  •  >i>.     1  can- 
Jioi  speak  by  peisonal  knowh-dgc. 


THE    SIXTH     DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  143 

(^.  You  si)<)k('  of^Ir.  Teiii])li't<ni  as  a  man  who  bad  said  lie  liad  i»aid 
altoj^etlier  $4U() .' — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(j).  How  loii<i  had  Templetou  been  in  othee  ? — A.  lie  Irad  been  in  some 
time;   I  think  it  is  stated  in  my  report. 

i).  Ten  years  ? — ^V.  1  expect  so. 

(}.  Dr.  .Mott,  your  re]>ort  says,  went  in  in  1874? — A.  1874 — in  ten 
years. 

i).  ^Vas  it  in  the  year  1871  or  1872  1' — A.  I  just  give  his  statement 
there;  1  think  1874.' 

The  Chairman.  He  was  ai)])ointed  storekee]>er  and  ganger  in  1874,  or 
^vent  ujjon  duty  at  tliat  time. 

Tlie  Witness.  That  is  his  statement  to  me.  1  did  not  h)ok  it  up  to 
see  if  correct  or  not. 

]\Jr.  l*ooL.  Tliat  would  be  six  years. 

The  Chairman.  The  report  is  dated  1881. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  What  was  he  receiving- a  year  ! — A.  Up  to  that  time,  if  he  was  ou 
duty  all  the  time,  he  had  been  receiving  about  -f  100  a  month.  It  de- 
l^ends  upon  the  time  he  was  assigned  to  duty. 

Q.  It  may  be  roughly  put  at  $1,000  a  year;  he  was  storekeeper  and 
ganger  at  the  Coopers's  establishment  ? — A.  When  I  saw  him  ? 

Q.  Y"es. — A.  At  Mr.  Cooper's  to  the  best  of  my  recollection. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  he  had  been  at  that  establisiiment  all  the  time 
lie  was  em]>loyed  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  that ;  he  may  have  been. 

Q.  These  men  did  not  suspend  their  distilleries  at  all,  did  they;  they 
ran  all  the  time  ? — A.  I  cannot  say  as  to  that. 

Q.  Y'ou  don't  know  as  to  that? — A.  I  don't  know  it. 

().  Now,  you  can  safely  estimate  that  Templeton  would  have  received, 
jipproximately,  a  thousand  dollars  a  year? — A.  I  could  not  say,  sir.  It 
depends  upon  the  time  he  was  assigned  to  duty.  If  he  were  at  a  distil- 
lery that  ran  continuously — he  would  receive  over  that,  .$1,200  a  year. 

Q.  Those  Coopers  were  men  of  means,  substantial  men,  who  make  it 
a  matter  of  business.  Did  you  ever  hear  of  them  having  suspended  at 
any  time? — A.  I  never  heard  much  about  them.  I  know  if  they  were 
substantial  men  they  would  be  apt  to  run  probably  more  than  others  in 
the  district.  The  distilleiy  was  running  when  I  went  there.  I  was  never 
there  but  once. 

Q.  Now,  upon  the  supposition  that  he  was  engaged  all  the  time,  he 
would  have  received  .$1,245  a  year. — A.  In  that  neighborhood. 

(}.  That  for  seven  years  would  have  been  how  much  ? — A.  Just  seven 
times  as  much. 

Q.  Between  $8,000  and  $9,000 1— A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q'  And  during  the  time  he  had  paid  for  political  purposes  $400.  In 
speaking  of  storekeepers  dividing  with  distillers,  you  said  that  it  was  in 
the  pjwer  of  a  distiller  to  stop  wheiu^ver  he  pleased? — A.  Certainly. 

Q.  And  that,  unfortunately,  the  pay  of  the  storekeeper  was  measur- 
ably' in  his  power? — A.  Y>s,  sir;  it  is  an  unfortunate  thing  in  the  law. 

Q.  That  is  a  defect  of  the  law? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  Xot  a  defect  in  the  administration  of  the  collector'? — A.  Xo,  sir; 
not  at  all.  This  is  so  all  over  the  country.  If  a  distiller  starts  a  distil- 
lery and  don't  like  a  storekeeper,  gets  mad  at  him,  he  justs  shuts  down 
and  cuts  off  his  i)ay. 

Q.  It  a  person  wanted  to  remedy  that,  they  would  have  to  change  the 
law  to  do  it? — A.  No  other  way. 

Q.  Then,  if  t-hat  defect  is  to  be  reu.edieil,  it  is  the  duty  of  Congress  to 
do  it  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir  ;  certainly. 


144  COLLECTION    OF    INTEENAL    REVENUE    IX 

Q.  Have  you  any  plan  to  suggest  by  wliicli  Congress  could  do  it 
practically  ?— A.  They  cannot  regulate  the  running  of  a  inan'.s  distillery. 

Q.  to  remedy  that  detect   in  the  law  1' — A.  Just  pay   them   a 

salary. 

Q/AVhether  they  work  or  not  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  would  be  the  only 
way. 

Q.  But,  unfortunately,  that  is  not  the  law. — A.  That  is  not  the  law  ; 
no,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  e\cr  find  out  an  instance  in  your  investigation  there 
where  any  storekeejier  divided  with  the  distiller  ?— A.  I  do  not  re- 
member of  an  instance  where  we  proved  that  they  did.  They  have  a 
very  cute  way  of  fixing  it  uj),  some  of  them,  so  that  we  never  got  at  it. 

Q.  You  never  got  at  the  i>oint  and  i)roved  it  on  them  f — A.  We  talked 
that  all  over,  T>i\  JNIott  and  I,  when  1  was  down  there.  AVe  agreed  that 
the  first  case  we  could  get  to  stick  we  would  prosecute. 

Q.  Did  Dr.  Mott  exert  himself  diligently  to  try  and  find  out  some 
one  who  had  done  it  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  did  all  J  could  ask  of  him.  I 
have  no  coiuplaint  to  make  about  that.  If  1  told  him  what  my  suspi- 
cions were,  he  acted  upon  them. 

Q.  And  you  and  he  combined  tried  to  find  such  an  instance  and 
could  not  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  AVe  agreed  to  use  the  law  to  prosecute  them. 
I  made  up  my  mind  and  saw  Dr.  Alott  about  it,  and  he  said  he  would 
do  it ;  that  he  had  been  trying  to  find  out  such  a  case. 

Q.  It  was  the  policy  of  the  government  to  induce  men  to  put  up  stills 
in  order  to  break  down  illicit  distilling f — A.  That  was  the  policy  that 
was  adoi)ted  for  that  purpose. 

Q.  And  efforts  Avere  made  to  do  it  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  they  were  encour- 
aged in  it. 

Q.  And  you  found  men  saying  that  they  had  suspicions  that  the  gov- 
ernment was  trying  to  do  that  in  order  to  secure  some  hitch  upon  them  ? — 
A.  Yes.     I  could  exjtlain  that  better. 

Q.  AYe  would  like  to  hear  it  explained. — A.  Previous  to  the  time  this 
l>lan  was  adoi)ted  there  were  a  great  nuiuy  men  that  had  engaged  in  the 
business  for  years  of  illicit  distilling  and  defrauding  the  government, 
and  they  were  charged  with  all  manner  of  offenses,  and  were  afraid 
that  the  officers  Avere  trying  to  ]mt  up  a  job  on  them  in  order  to  get 
them  in,  and  then  the  marshal  could  grab  them  and  take  them  into  court. 

(}.  Then  they  had  a  susjucion  of  tlie  good  faith  of  the  government? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  They  thought  the  government  was  trying  to  play  a  trick  upon 
themf — A.  To  ])unish  them. 

(}.  ^Vas  not  that  the  reason  w]i\  they  weie  unwilling  to  have  store- 
keepers around  them  that  they  did  not  know,  but  wanted  men  of  integ- 
rity, in  whom  they  iiad  coulidence? — A.  1  cannot  say  what  their  reasons 
were,  but  tha:;  was  the  way  1  recollect  it;  the  way  it  was  ex])lained  to 
me,  and  I  saw  a  great  deal  in  it. 

(^>.  They  did  not  want  a  man  selected  as  a  storekeeper  over  them 
who  wouhl  be  a  sort  of  spy  ' — A.  Tliey  would  not  start  with  an\  man  of 
that  kind. 

(}.  Tiie\'  want<'d  some  man  of  tlieir  ac(inaintance  in  whom  they  had 
eonli(h'nee  to  do  what  was  fair? — A.  That  was  the  way  I  understood  it. 

(}.  And  ir  tliey  did  not  get  su(;h  a  man  they  would  not  open  their  dis- 
tilh'ry  at  all  .' — A.   Yes,  sir;   I  unch'i-stood  that  was  the  case. 

i).  That  was  tiie  extent  to  which  they  had  a  voice  in  the  selection  of 
.>-torekeep«'is  / — A.   Yes,  sir. 

(}.   Do  \i)\\  l\no\\  of  any  gre'ater  exlent  in  which  thcv  had  a  voice  in 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  145 

the  selection  of  a  storekeeper,  iu  any  otber  way? — A.  I  caimot  say 
that  I  do.     I  do  not  recollect. 

Q.  They  were  yielded  to,  to  some  extent,  in  that  respect,  by  tlie  col- 
lector; that  is,  he  tried  to  satisfy  them  by  giving  them  such  storekeepers 
as  they  had  confidence  in  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  as  I  can  recall  a  case. 
I  believe  it  was  done  in  the  State,  and  probably  in  that  district. 

Q.  You  may  not  have  thought  that  this  was  a  very  ])roper  thing  in  the 
collector  to  do,  in  order  to  carry  out  the  wishes  of  the  government  to 
get  these  men  to  startup  distilleries'? — A.  I  would  say  this,  in  some  in- 
stances the  collector,  to  get  them  to  start,  has  yielded  to  them  iu  that 
particular.     It  was  not  done  in  every  instance. 

Q.  You  don't  think  it  was  done  so  as  to  get  a  dishonest  storekeeper,* 
and  thus  eimble  the  distilleries  to  be  dishonest  ? — A.  I  did  not  under- 
staiul  it  that  way. 

The  Chairman.  Plyler's  point  was  that,  was  it  not  ? — A.  That  fellow 
tried  it;  yes,  sir.     He  wanted  to  get  the  divide. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Were  most  of  these  distillers  ignorant  men  ? — A.  They  were,  sir. 

Q.  Not  acquainted  with  forms  of  business  very  well  ? — A.  No,  sir ; 
very  few  of  them  can  read  or  write. 

Q.  Was  it  not  a  great  advantage  to  have  a  man  for  storekeeper  pro- 
ficient in  that  regard,  so  as  to  show  them  how  to  keej)  their  books  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  certainly  it  was,  because  very  few  of  them  can  read  or  write. 

Q.  Was  it  not  very  natural  that  the  distiller  would  prefer  a  store- 
keeper who  had  a  business  ca])acity  to  help  him  along  in  that  way  ? — A. 
Natural  enough. 

Q.  Some  men  were  more  accommodating  than  others  in  helping  a  person 
along  with  their  business.  Would  not  a  distiller  rather  have  an  accom- 
modating storekeei)er  who  would  do  alittle  writing  for  him,  and  show liim 
how  to  put  things  in  good  shape? — A.  Yes,  sir.  A  great  many  store- 
keepers and  gangers  iu  that  State  do  the  writing  for  the  distillers,  while 
it  is  against  the  regulations. 

Q.  Would  not  the  ganger  be  of  considerable  service  to  the  distiller  in 
watching  over  his  business  and  his  hands,  and  keeping  an  eye  generally 
over  matters  while  lie  was  off  on  other  business — on  his  plantation,  for 
instance? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  It  would  be  very  natural  for  a  distiller  to  want  a  man  who  would 
do  this  ? — A.  It  is  very  natural  for  these  people  to  want  competent  men, 
that  understand  making  out  reports,  and  all  that  kind  of  thing,  because 
if  they  do  not  have  them  they  are  very  apt  to  come  in  for  assessments 
and  to  get  into  trouble. 

Q.  Isn't  that  one  of  the  important  services  that  can  be  rendered  by 
the  ganger  in  the  business  of  the  distiller,  to  look  after  his  hands,  and 
allow  him  to  attend  to  his  general  business  while  he  was  absent,  and 
let  him  know  when  he  came  back  if  there  was  anything  wrong — acting 
as  a  sort  of  overseer  f — A.  They  do  thatj  but  there  is  nothing  in  the  law 
that  requires  it. 

Q.  I  don't  speak  of  that  as  the  storekeeper's  duty,  but  as  a  friendly 
act  ? — A.  Oh,  yes  ;  it  is  a  help  to  these  people  to  have  men  of  that  kind 
to  look  after  their  interests. 

Q.  Was  not  that  a  kind  of  an  expression  on  the  part  of  the  distiller, 
of  a  preference  of  one  man  over  another  ? — A.  It  was,  I  believe,  in  a  great 
measure. 

Q.  An  expression  of  such  a  preference  would  not  necessarily  imply 

S.  Mis.  116 10 


146  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

tbat  he  wauted  a  dishonest  man  to  help  him  to  steal  '. — A.  Xo,  sir;  not 
necessarily. 

Q.  And  it  would  be  of  great  benefit  to  have  around  such  a  man  to 
look  after  their  interest,  to  look  after  their  writinj^-  and  business? — A.. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  to  see  that  things  were'  faithfully  done  generally  around  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  spoke  of  the  condition  of  the  locks  and  other  things  around 
the  distilleries  that  you  examined,  and  the  answers  upon  this  form,  of 
twenty  questions  or  more  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  fouiul  sometimes  that  the  painting  was  not  exactly  done 
right,  and  other  little  defects  ? — A.  That  is,  irregularities  in  the  distil- 
leries. 

Q.  Did  you  find  any  more  of  these  in  that  district  than  elsewhere  ? — 
A.  I  don't  think  I  did  ;  they  were  about  the  same  all  over  the  State. 

Q.  This  district  in  that  respect  was  up  to  the  general  average"? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  and  in  some  sections  of  it,  especially  one  division  that  I  had 
examined,  I  think  they  were  in  better  condition  than  the  general  run  of 
distilleries  in  the  State. 

Q.  That  involved  a  sort  of  general  investigation  into  the  general 
management  of  the  collector  of  his  district"? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  judge  of 
the  efficiency  of  an  officer  by  the  condition  of  their  divisions,  the  distil- 
leries, and  so  on. 

Q.  Did  you  find  that  Dr.  Mott  had  faithfully  and  diligently  discharged 
his  duty — seemed  to  be  a  diligent  and  faithful  officer  in  these  respects  ! — 
A.  Yes',  sir;  I  never  had  any  complaint  to  make  of  him.  Whenever  I 
called  his  attention  to  anything  I  have  had  it  corrected. 

Q.  Did  it  appear  to  you  that  he  had  manifested  ordiimry  vigilance 
over  the  district  f — A.  Yes,  sir;  as  much  as  the  other  collectors. 

Q.  And  you  thiuk  that  he  had  his  district  up  to  the  general  average, 
and  in  some  places  above  the  average  ? — A.  I  am  speaking  now  of  the 
southern  district.  That  is  a  peculiar  district,  you  understand  ;  there  is 
not  another  district  like  it  in  the  country. 

Q.  Xow,  is  not  this  a  very  large  district? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  One  of  the  most  difficult  of  all  to  manage"? — A.  I  don't  know  of 
any  other  district  as  difficult  to  manage  as  that  sixth  district  is. 

Q.  And,  notwithstanding.  Dr.  Mott  did  have  it  up  to  the  full  average, 
and  in  one  division  above  the  average  ? — A.  He  may  have  had  more  than 
that  above  the  average;  that  is,  in  distilleries  complying  with  the  law. 

(I.  You  tell  me  it  is  a  dilficult  district  to  manage.  Will  you  please  ex- 
plain how  that  is  in  the  several  respects,  and  why  that  is  in  detail,  and 
what  were  the  troubles  in  the  district? — A,  In  the  first  i)lace,  itisa 
large  territory  ;  it  is  inai'cessible  in  a  great  many  portions  of  it.  In 
some  (;ases  a  man  might  have  to  go  over  a  huiulred  to  a  hundred  and 
fifty  inih^s  to  get  at  a  little  distillery  away  over  in  the  mountains  in 
some  of  these  far  western  counties.  And  then  there  have  been  these 
small  distilleries  started  up  which  are  nu)re  trouble  and  bother  than  a 
grain  distillery  that  is  paying  a  thousand  dollars  of  taxes  a  day  and 
everything  running  smooth  and  nice.  The  ])eople  in  these  distilleries 
are  educated  in  tlii'  business  by  ii  lifetime  spent  therein,  and  they  go 
along  smoothly.  These  httle  fellows  are  ignorant  i»eoi»le.  and  they  do 
not  s<!em  to  eonipiciieml,  in  many  instances,  what  is  re(|uired  of  them. 
I'"or  instance,  tiie  ]ii|»es  get  loose;  tlie  law  i'e(piires  spirit  l»ipes  to  be 
closed  and  soldered  ;  people  get  knociving  aiouiid  and  get  sonu'  of  them 
loose;  we  come  in  and  inspect,  so  as  to  get  and  report  excry  thing  we  find 
there.     They  are  very  hard  to  manage  and  Ueej)  right  alter  you  get  them 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  147 

right.  Soinetliing  will  happen  which  will  get  the  distillery  in  the  same 
lix  again,  and  then  the  officers  are  men  that  are  not  np  anywhere  near 
the  average  of  our  other  officers  in  the  West  or  the  North  who  have 
charge  of  that  bnsiness,  and  they  bnngle  the  thing  along,  very  often 
cansing  a  great  deal  of  troul)le,  making  errors  in  their  re])orts,  and  one 
thing  and  another. 

Q.  It  would  be  difficnlt  to  procnre  better  officers  in  that  section  of 
the  country  ? — A.  I  think  it  would.  I  talked  that  matter  over  with  the 
collector :  he  asked  me  to  help  him  to  pick  men.  I  conld  not  do  it;  I  am 
not  well  enough  acquainted,  and  I  never  recommended  a  man  when 
down  there. 

Q.  Don't  you  think  Dr.  Mottmade  as  good  a  selection  as  any  sensible 
man  could  have  made  ? — A.  He  did  do  as  well  as  could  be  done  under 
the  circnmstances  in  selecting  those  men. 

Q.  All  these  things  make  it  a  difficult  district  to  manage  ! — A.  Yes, 
sir;  difficult  to  manage. 

Q.  Do  yon  know  of  any  other  district,  of  your  knowledge,  so  hard  I — 
A.  I  don't  know  of  any  other  district  in  the  country  that  is  so  hard  to 
manage  as  that  sixth  district. 

Q.  Something  was  said  about  storekeepers  being  absent  from  duty" 
sometimes.  Did  you  find  any  instance  of  storekeepers  being  absent  from' 
duty  without  leaving  somebody  in  their  places  or  locking  up  and  having 
the  keys  with  them  ? — A,  I  have  known  of  them  being  away  without 
having  any  one  in  their  place.  I  don't  recollect  in  that  particular  dis- 
trict al30ut  their  locking  up. 

Q.  Was  Dr.  Mott  prompt  in  discharging  or  rei)rimanding  men  when 
they  did  that? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  has  suspended  them  on  the  complaints 
made  of  them  without  w^aiting  for  orders  from  Washington.  At  the 
suggestion  of  the  agents  he  has  suspended  men,  and  in  some  cases 
asked  for  their  dismissal. 

Q.  You  think  he  was  vigilant  and  prompt  in  making  men  attend  to 
their  duty  and  stay  at  their  post? — A.  Yes,  sir;  so  far  as  I  know  he 
has  been  prompt. 

Q.  Since  you  first  knew  that  district,  has  there  been  any  improvement 
in  it? — A.  There  has  been  a  great  improvement  in  the  State  in  the  last 
two  years,  and,  of  my  knowledge,  in  that  district,  as  well  as  the  other 
districts  of  the  State. 

Q.  Do  you  know  how  many  illicit  distilleries  Dr.  Mott  has  broken  or 
cut  up  since  he  has  been  in  charge  of  that  district  till  he  went  out  ? — 
A.  I  cannot  give  you  the  number;  1  know  a  great  many  in  that  district.. 

Q.  Was  it  not  nearly  twelve  hundred  I — A.  I  should  not  be  surprised 
if  it  ran  that  high. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  so  many" being  broken  up  in  any  other  district  ? — 
A.  I  do  not. 

Q.  Do  you  think  half  as  many  in  any  other  district? — A.  I  could  not: 
say  as  to  that. 

Q.  But  there  were  more  in  that  district  than  in  any  other  you  know 
of? — A.  I  do  not  say  that;  there  may  have  been;  I  do  not  know  how 
many  there  were.     I  should  judge  there  were. 

Q.  You  think  there  were  more  in  that  district;  that  you  know  ? — A.. 
I  think  there  were ;  I  do  not  know  of  my  own  knowdedge. 

Q.  You  spoke  of  its  being  a  hard  district  to  manage,  on  account  of 
the  extent  of  the  territory,  inaccessibility  of  the  distilleries,  and  those 
other  things  mentioned  in  your  evidence.  Was  there  a  disposition  on 
the  part  of  the  people  at  one  time  to  discountenance  the  administra- 


1-48  COLLIX'TION    OF    INTLKXAL    REVEXUE    IN 

tion  of  the  law  in  tliat  di.stiict   and  throw  every  obstruction   in   I)r 
jNFott's  way  ? — A.  There  was,  sir. 

Q.  Xow,  state  that,  and  how  it  was. — A.  Whm  I  lirst  IciKiW  of  or 
came  to  any  personal  knowledge  of  affairs  in  that  kState,  it  was  back  in 
1876,  running'  from  187(>  to  1877.  At  that  time  they  had  soldiers  sta- 
tioned down  there,  and  tliey  took  some  soldiers,  a  large  force  of  mounted 
men,  to  go  into  portions  of  that  district  to  destroy  and  break  up  these 
illicit  stills;  the  resistance  was  so  great;  but  uow  you  can  travel  all 
through  those  same  districts,  these  worst  districts;  you  can  go  any- 
where without  fear  of  being  molested  by  the  people. 

Q.  AVere  there  men  in  the  district  denouncing  the  revenue  law  aiul 
the  government  on  account  of  it?— A.  Well,  there  were  several  causes 
that  combined  to  increase  the  feeling  against  the  enforcement  of  the 
revenue  law.  The  i)eople  there  at  that  time  did  not  have  a  very  great 
respect  for  the  government  or  its  laws.  JNIany  of  them,  especially  this 
class  of  people  that  were  running  these  illicit  distilleries,  it  seemed  to 
them  the  first  duty  they  owed  to  the  government  was  to  beat  it  out  of 
this  revenue  tax;  and  1  have  known  witnesses  to  testify  in  getting  on 
the  stand  in  cases  1  had  there  myself — one  case  1  remember,  where  three 
or  four  witnesses  connected  with  the  case,  county  offtcers,  sheriffs,  and 
deputy  sheriffs,  went  upon  the  stand  to  prove  the  character  of  a  man  ; 
and  the  district  attorney,  after  they  had  testified  to  his  being  a  good 
man,  a  man  of  fair  dealing  between  man  and  man,  asked  these  witnesses 
what  they  would  think  of  a  man  in  their  section  that  would  blockade  a 
little  whisky  and  tobacco.  They  all  testified  that  it  would  be  to  his 
credit  to  do  such  a  thing.  That  is  ab-out  the  sentiment  of  the  people  in 
some  localities.  While  a  man  wouhl  be  considered  a  fair  and  square 
man  as  between  man  and  man,  when  it  comes  to  doing  a  little  blockad- 
ing it  would  not  hurt  him  in  the  eyes  of  his  community.  That  was  the 
the  feeling  in  1877. 

(}.  Was  that  feeling  encouraged  by  political  movements  down  there, 
and  s])eeches  on  the  stump,  &c.? — A.  I  can  only  testify  as  to  that  from 
what  I  have  heard. 

Q.  State  what  you  have  heard — common  runn)r. — A.  1  think  that 
and  other  things  had  something  to  do  with  encouraging  the  feeling 
against  the  government.     The  people  did  not  like  the  laws. 

(^.  Was  it  common  to  denounce  the  revenue  officers  because  they  were 
revenue  officers  ? — A.  Yes,  it  was  common  to  denounce  revenue  offi- 
cers at  that  time,  and  considered  fair,  I  think,  to  run  them  off  if  they 
■could. 

(»>.  Were  they  reviled  with  epithets,  insulted,  &c.  ? — A.  So  far  as  I 
am  ])ersonally  concerned,  1  have  no  complaint  to  nuike  of  that  to  me 
direct.  I  got  ah)ng  very  nicely,  but  I  have  heard  of  officers  being  cursed 
and  men  sliot  at  and  shot. 

(^.  You  called  witnesses  for  the  State  in  these  revenue  causes;  how 
wer«;  they  treated  by  the  court  and  prosecutors? — A.  For  the  United 
.States? 

(J>.  Ves. — A.  Many  of  them  were  treated  a  little  roughly,  and,  in  my 
jndgmcnt,  they  would  be  denounced. 

i}.  Was  thcVe  an  cffoit  to  browbeat  them'?— A.  Yes,  a  little.  They 
di<l  that  as  mucih  as  jMtssible. 

(^>.  l)i<l  tlie  coinmnnity  se(mi  to  apjirove  and  sustain  such  comluct? — 
A.  ^'(•s,  sir;  I  thonglit  that  sort  of  business  was  heli)ed  on  by  the  feel- 
ing on  this  sMbjccf. 

(}.  IHd  m)t  all  these  things  add  very  greatly  to  the  end)arra8Smeut of 
Dr.  Mott's  position  and  his(hitics? — A.  It  adch'd  to  the  embarrassment 


TPIE    SIXTH    DISTKICT    OF    NORTH    CAROIJXA.  119 

of  ill!  the  officers  in  the  State.  About  tliat  time  there  was  considerable 
feelin_i;-.  The  officers  niakinj;'  these  raids  would  arrest  j)eoi)le  where 
they  would  catch  them  in  the  country.  For  instance,  a  man  ^oinj;'  along 
with  a  load  of  blockade  whisky  they  would  arrest  and  just  brinj;'  in, 
wagon  and  all,  to  town.  xVbout  that  time  our  district  Judge  decided 
they  had  no  right  to  arrest  those  peoi)le  without  a  warrant,  and  then 
they  started  up  a  whole  lot  of  i)rosecutii>ns  against  the  revenue  officers 
Avho  had  done  such  a  thing.  One  of  the  State  judges  advised  the  in- 
dictment of  those  officers,  and  the  whole  thing  combined  just  at  that 
time  to  start  up  a  bitter  feeling  against  the  revenue  officers. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  of  any  illegal  arrests  occurring  in  the  sixth  dis- 
trict ? — A.  Xo,  sir.    What  I  referred  to  occurred  in  the  fifth  district. 

Q.  How  did  Dr.  Mott  manage  those  difficulties,  with  discretion  and 
moderation  ? — A.  So  far  as  I  know,  he  did  very  well.  I  was  not  in  his 
district  at  that  time.  ]My  head({uarters  were  at  Greensborough,  N.  C,  as 
now. 

Q.  At  any  rate,  a  very  great  improvement  has  been  effected  there, 
from  some  cause  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir,  a  very  great  improvement  all  over  the 
State.  There  are  less  frauds  in  the  State  to-day  than  ever  before.  The 
honest  manufacturers  have  a  better  business  than  ever  before,  supply- 
ing the  markets  with  tobacco  that  were  j)reviously  supplied  with  illicit 
tobacco,  and  the  revenue  is  greatly  increased. 

Q.  The  law  and  the  execution  of  the  law  stand  in  better  odor  with 
the  ])eo}>le "/ — A.  Yes,  sir ;  the  feeling  is  very  much  better.  I  can  go 
anywhere  in  that  State  without  fear  of  being  molested  by  anybody.  I 
do  not  know  of  any  ])ortion  of  the  State  where  I  would  be  afraid  to 
drive  now. 

Q.  Do  you  think  the  collectors  in  the  State  and  their  officers  have 
managed  the  matter  with  discretion  and  wisdom,  and  Dr.  Mott  in  par- 
ticular ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  deserves  as  much  credit  as  the  rest.  Prob- 
ably he  has  had  the  worst  district. 

Q.  Y^ou  have  heard  rumors  of  all  sorts  of  frauds  in  circulation  about 
the  revenue  officers? — A.  Yes,  sir;  you  can  hear  almost  any  kind  of 
rumor  down  there. 

Q.  Have  they  become  less  recently — these  derogatory  rumors  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir.  There  is  not  that  feeling  against  the  department.  A  great 
deal  of  the  rumors  are  put  out  by  people  to  serve  some  euds,  but  whAi 
you  come  to  sift  them  down  you  do  not  get  anything.  It  is  a  waste  of 
time  to  run  after  rumors. 

Q.  In  that  investigation  down  there  have  you  ever  been  able  to  find 
any  official  misconduct  on  the  part  of  Dr.  Mott  ? — A.  I  do  not  know. 
I  do  not  remember  of  an  iusiance  where.  I  have  reported,  in  his  district 
the  same  as  in  all  the  others,  all  the  facts  I  got  to  the  department,  and 
I  do  not  remember  of  having  come  across  any. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Y^ou  said,  in  response  to  Mr.  Pool,  that  you  did  not  think,  though 
the  officers  were  deficient  in  many  respects,  that  Dr.  Mott  could  have 
gotten  better  officers  in  that  country.  Do  you  mean  to  say  there 
were  not  educated  young  men  enough  in  that  country  to  have  filled 
those  positions  ? — A.  No,  sir;  I  don't  mean  to  say  that.  I  speak  of  my 
knowledge  of  them.  If  they  left  it  to  me  I  was  not  able  to  have  done 
any  better  than  he. 

Q.  Suppose  your  choice  were  not  confined  to  one  political  party,  do 
you  think  you  could  ha\'e  found  as  manj'  intelligent  officers  there  as  in 
any  other  Southern  State? — A.  Maybe,  sir;  I  don't  know  as  to  that. 


150  COLLECTIOX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENI'E    IN 

I  understood  tliat  of  these  niou  a  good  many  were  drawn  from  both  i>art 
ties.  I  never  asked  them  their  jxihtics.  When  I  go  to  a  distilJer  - 
never  inquire  about  the  man's  poHtics;  but  I  always  understood  thai 
some  few  years  ago,  under  tlie  Hayes  administration,  a  great  many  Dem- 
ocrats were  ajipointed  in  that  district,  but  I  did  not  know  it  of  my  own 
knowledge. 

Q.  Did  you  know  that  the  appointments  were  generally  made  for  a 
political  i)urpose;  that  a  man  was  appointed  because  he  was  a  Republi- 
can, or  they  would  make  him  one? — A.  I  don't  know  that  it  was  done 
for  that  altogether;  there  may  have  been  some  of  that;  I  cannot  say. 
As  I  stated  before,  I  never  had  charge  of  the  district  until  the  loth  of 
October  last. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know,  in  fact,  that  they  were  all  politicians  and  did 
party  work? — A.  No,  sir;  I  did  not  know  that. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  that  the  revenue  department  is  the  head,  front, 
and  working  force  of  the  Eepublican  party  in  North  Carolina? — A.  I 
know  that  a  great  many  of  the  officers  are  Eepublicans. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  that  the  expense  of  running  the  party  machinery 
is  borne  by  the  revenue  officers? — A.  No,  sir;  I  don't  know  that. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  that  most  of  it  is? — A.  No,  sir;  I  don't  know 
what  the  expense  is.  I  don't  know  anything  about  it.  I  am  there  a 
stranger.    I  came  from  New  Jersey,  and  do  not  meddle  with  their  affairs. 

Q.  You  said  a  great  deal  of  this  lawlessness  was  encouraged  by  poli- 
ticians?— A.  I  said  it  was  a  combination  of  causes,  and  that  was  one  of 
them. 

Q.  In  response  to  that,  I  ask  you  if  it  would  not  l)e  legitimate  for 
the  Democratic  party  to  condemn  the  revenue  de])artment  because  the 
revenue  department  was  a  part  of  the  lvei)ublicaii  party  machine  in  that 
State? — A.  You  ask  me  if  I  thought  it  fair  to  do  that? 

Q.  If  there  is  anything  unfair  or  out  of  the  way  to  do  that? — A.  I 
don't  think  it  was  fair  to  do  that,  because  it  encouraged  a  great  many 
poor  people,  who  had  a  great  deal  of  respect  for  the  siieakers,  and  who 
could  not  read,  and  who  got  their  information  from  the  stump — it  ad- 
A'ised  them  to  do  tilings  which  caused  them  to  get  into  trouble.  I  do 
not  think  it  was  right  to  encourage  violation  of  the  law. 

^Q.  You  thiidc  it  was  fair  for  the  iicvenue  Department  to  organize  and 
have  contributions  and  run  the  political  machine,  and  the  Democratic 
party  managers  and  ne\vspai>ers  must  not  say  anything  against  it  be- 
cause it  would  ('iu'<Kirage  violation  of  the  law  ;  that  is  your  idea  of  fair- 
nes.s  '. — A.  I  did  not  say  anything  about  this  l)usiness  of  assessments, 
but  of  the  advice  given  to  these  poorjieople. 

(}.  Did  you  ever  hear  any  Democratic  orator  or  si)('n]cerad\ising  these 
l)oor  ])iH)ple  to  violate  the  law  ? — A.  I  never  heard  tliat  myself. 

Q.  \Vhy,  I  undeistood  ycui  to  say  that  it  was  the  sentiment  with  the 
])«'ople  <lown  theie  that  it  was  to  a  man's  credit  to  do  a  little  blockad- 
ing .' — A.  That  was  on  the  witness  stan<l  1  heard  that. 

(}.  Will  you  give  me  the  name  of  the  witness? — A.  I  can  get  it  from 
tlie  iccoi'ds  of  the  couit  in  Greensborongh. 

().  I  understood  you  to  say  tliat  it  was  the  sheriff  ol' llie  county  ? — A. 
I  understood  it  was  the  sheriff  or  the  dejiuty  of  the  coiinly. 

(}.  I  ask'  you  in  what  district  they  were  ? — A.  In  the  district  of  Surry 
County,  it  was  tlie  time  we  li:i(l  a  lot  of  toltacco  manufacturers;  one 
of  t  ho.se  c;i.se.s  \\  ere  up. 

().  lMd\oii  ever  notice  eiiougli  to  say  wlict her  t lie  iveiiublicaiis  or 
Dcmociats  violaled   the  law  most   in  that  State:' — A.  No,  sir;  I  cannot 


TIlK    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  151 

say  that.  I  did  not  ask  thcin  as  to  tlicir  politics.  I  am  (•oin])aratively 
a  stran,i;er  there.     1  go  there  to  ijerforni  my  duty,  an<l  try  to  do  it. 

Q.  Has  it  not  been  charoed  very  oi)enly  that  younj;'  men  of  Demo- 
cratic antecedents  were  selected  tliere  for  i)ositi(ms  in  the  revenue  for 
the])urpose  of  making  themllei)nblicans  and  changing  their  politics? — 
A.  It  may  have  been  charged,  but  1  did  not  understand  at  the  time  that 
this  was  the  policy.  The  policy  was  of  getting  those  men  to  start  reg- 
istered distilleries.  There  was  a  great  many  comi)laints  against  the  Ke- 
])ublican  oflicers,  the  revenue  men  all  l)eing  Ivcpublicans  then  at  that 
time,  and  the  collector  determined  to  trj^  some  Democrats  in  with  them; 
and  they  selected  a  number  of  young  men,  Democrats.  >Some  of  them 
were  there  and  some  were  not  there. 

Q.  Did  not  these  young  men  selected  become  Eepublicans  ' — A.  No, 
sir;  my  recollection  is  they  did  not. 

Q.  Did  you  not  know  that  they  all  subscribed  to  these  political  con- 
tributions ? — A.  1  did  not  know  that  they  did.  My  impression  is  that 
they  did  not. 

Q.  AVho  was  chairman  of  the  llepublican  Committee  in  that  State  ? — 
A.  Just  now  ? 

Q.  Yes. — A.  Dr.  Mott  is  chairman  of  the  committee. 

Q.  Who  was  chairman  l)efore  him  ? — A.  T.  N.  Cooper. 

Q.  And  he  is  collector  now  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Does  that  not  look  very  much  as  if  the  llevenue  Department  there 
is  head  of  the  Jkepublican  party? — A.  I  cannot  say  that. 

Q.  When  the  collectors  are  also  the  chairmen  of  the  executive  com- 
mittee, and  so  on,  it  looks  very  much  like  as  if  they  were  running  the 
machine  altogether  ? — A.  1  cannot  say  as  to  that.  1  suppose  he  had  a 
right  to  be  chairman. 

Q.  Xo  doubt  about  that.  You  also  stated  to.  i\lr.  Pool  (or  rather  iNIr. 
Pool  suggested  it  in  his  question  which  was  leading)  that  these  distil- 
lers displayed  anxiety  to  have  storekeepers  in  whose  integrity  they  had 
contidence;  do  you  mean  to  say  that  that  was  the  only  reason  they  de- 
sired who  should  be  storekeepers  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Were  the3'  afraid  that  the  government  would  send  them  store- 
keepers who  would  be  rascals  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  I  did  not  say  that ;  but 
that  it  was  to  their  advantage — that  class  of  men  being  illiterate — to  have 
men  who  could  read  and  write,  and  keep  their  accounts  straight  and 
clear  of  assessments. 

(\).  Do  you  not  know  that  in  some  instances  it  was  reported  to  you  that 
the  storekeepers  did  not  understand  gauging,  and  that  the  distillers 
had  to  gauge  for  them  ? — A.  I  did  not  know  that  the  distillers  gauged 
for  them  ;  but  some  storekeepers  were  reported  who  did  not  understand 
gauging. 

Q.  We  find  here  in  the  rej^ort  of  Mr.  Tracie  that  the  distillers  fre- 
quently gauged  for  the  storekeepers? — A.  I  don't  know  that.  I  have 
my  suspicion  how  some  of  them  arrived  at  the  capacity  of  a  barrel ;  but 
that  is  only  suspicion. 

Q.  I  believe  I  asked  you  that  question  before.  Mr.  Tracie  reports 
that  the  report  of  the  distillers  almost  invariably  is  two  gallons  to  the 
bushel,  and  he  infers  that  the  balance  was  abstracted  ;  now  I  want  to 
ask  what  is  generally  the  product  of  a  Vmshel  of  corn  in  these  distiller- 
iesd  own  there  ? — A.  Well,  sir,  1  don't  know  that  1  can  tell  you.  I  have 
my  suspicions  about  it,  but  it  is  just  suspicion  ;  only  I  thought  the  ma- 
jority [)roduced  more  than  that ;  but  a  great  many  of  them  did  not  know 
how,  but  others  did,  who  understand  their  business  vervwell,  and  get 
awav  with  it. 


152  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Au  ordinary  distiller  could  make  three  gallons  of  whisky  out  of 
a  bushel  f — A.  I  cannot  say  that.  My  judgment  is,  they  ought  to  pro- 
duce two  and  a  half  gallons  to  the  bushel,  and  if  they  cannot  do  that 
tbey  ought  to  quit  the  business. 

Q.  Is  that  the  minimum  they  ought  to  produce  ? — A.  I  think  that 
with  their  apparatus  they  ought  not  be  required  to  do  more  than  that. 

Q.  If  only  two  gallons  are  returned  then  the  balance  is  abstracted"? — 
A.  If  they  make  it,  of  course. 

Q.  You  say  you  have  heard  the  revenue  officers  abused  in  court  very 
much  ? — A.  I  have  heard  of  that. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  of  witnesses  being  abused  in  court  in  any  North- 
ern State  ? — A.  I  have,  sir. 

Q.  It  is  quite  a  trick  of  the  trade  with  lawyers  ? — A.  Yes,  sir  5  I  can 
not  speak  of  it  myself  in  the  courts,  but  I  have  heard  of  that  some  time 
ago  charged;  but  it  is  better  now  than  it  was  then. 

Q.  Can  not  you  say,  in  justice  to  our  people,  that  if  all  the  officers 
were  to  conduct  themselves  cleverly  towards  them,  they  would  receive 
the  same  treatment  that  you  do? — A.  I  am  only  speaking  in  regard  to 
myself.  I  have  always  been  treated  there  cleverly  by  the  people  and 
by  the  counsel,  but  I  have  heard  of  others  being  abused,  and  in  my 
opinion  it  was  unnecessary. 

Q.  And  that  was  in  the  Federal  court,  where  the  government  could 
have  protected  their  own  witness,  however  the  lawyer  was  exceeding 
his  license? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  is  true. 

Q.  You  saj  you  have  heard  officers  reviled  and  contemptuously  spoken 
of? — A.  Yes,  sir;  some  time  ago;  when  I  first  went  down,  in  1876  or 
1877. 

Q.  Have  you  had  a  knowledge  of  the  world  at  large  ?  Have  you  not 
heard,  from  the  times  of  our  Savior,  that  the  tax-gatherer  was  an  un- 
jjopular  man? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  have  heard  that. 

(}.  Xow,  with  reference  to  the  violation  of  the  law  by  these  small  dis- 
tilleries, I  will  ask  you  another  question  :  If  one  of  these  great  distillers 
out  Avest  undertakes  to  get  up  a  fraud,  can  they  not  cheat  the  govern- 
ment out  of  more  money  and  more  taxes  in  a  week  than  the  whole  of 
the  North  Carolina  mountain  countrj^  distilleries  in  a  year  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  if  one  of  them  was  to  go  in  to  steal  all  they  made. 

Q.  This  great  Saint  Louis  fraud,  for  instance,  if  it  amounted  to  as 
much  as  it  is  alleged  to  be — all  the  distilleries  in  North  Carolina,  would 
they  amount  to  as  much  as  it  was  ? — A.  The  whole  thing? 

Q.  Yes. — A.  No,  sir;  they  have  not  got  the  capacity.  These  distill- 
eri<'s  down  there  do  not  average  over  four  bushels  of  grain,  and  if  they 
stole  it  all,  that  would  not  l)e  more  than  8  or  !)  gallons  a  day — about  a& 
much  as  would  runout  of  the  still  of  a  westein  (listillery  in  two  seconds. 

(}.  You  say  there  has  been  a  general  improvement  in  the  State  and  in 
the  feeling  of  the  ])eoi)h'  towards  the  execution  of  the  law? — A.  Yes, 
sir:  when  I  wenf  down  there  about  a  year  ago,  I  went  at  the  suggestion 
of  or  ]ietition  of  meicliants  there  in  that  State  and  the  South  to  the 
Commissioner  of  Internal  Ifevenue  to  send  somelxxly  down  there;  their 
busin<'ss  was  being  <hnnaged  so  much  by  illicit  tobacco.  AVewentto 
work  on  that  and  suggested  a  ])lan  by  which  we  could  get  a  rei)ort  of 
the  tobacco  in  tiic  iian<ls  of  tlu^  merchants  all  through  that  State  where- 
e\('r  the  l)lock:i(liiig  tobacco  from  that  State  was  sent.  All  these  reports. 
tMiiM'  lo  nic  lioiii  each  man.  The  IVnits  weic,  we  found  out  that  the 
frauds  wcrr  commit t('(l  l»y  a  i<'iisiii<;- of  stamps  and  of  the  old  boxes.  I 
kept  a  record  of  all  these  reports  that  wei'c  made  to  me  by  local  officers 
in   the  dilVnei'it   (li\isi(»iis  of  liie  different    districts.     'I'iie\'  were  to   g0> 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  153 

around  to  tlieir  merchants  making;'  a  report,  and  seeing-  that  they  com- 
plied with  the  hiw,  and  instincting  them  with  regard  to  the  law.  Those 
reports  came  to  me  and  I  put  them  in  a  book.  AVe  knew  each  largo 
mannfactnrer,  and  as  to  where  each  box  of  tobacco  went  and  how  much 
was  in  it  on  a  certain  day.  If  a  merchant  lets  that  box  go  and  it  turns 
np  in  another  State,  then  Ave  go  to  the  merchant  and  tind  ont  about  it. 
It  resulted  in  breaking  np  the  market  for  this  illicit  tobacco.  It  required 
the  deputies  of  the  division  to  go  and  see  everybody  in  their  division. 
That  broke  up  the  market  for  illicit  tobacco.  The  dealers  went  to  their 
customers,  but  they  said,  "No;  we  don't  want  to  deal  with  you  any 
more — we  have  got  euough."  The  result  was  that  it  closed  the  block- 
ade factories,  so  that  to-day,  though  there  are  a  hundred  and  fifty  less 
factories  in  operation,  we  receive  more  taxes  from  North  Carolina — a 
hundred  thousand  dollars  more — than  we  ever  received  before.  And 
the  honest  nmnufacturer  got  that  trade  which  these  men  went  into  and 
had  for  what  they  could  steal.  I  am  now  speaking  of  the  State,  and 
not  districts. 

Q.  There  is  not  a  great  deal  of  that  in  the  sixth  district  ? — A.  Con- 
siderable there. 

Q.  I  thought  the  most  of  it  was  in  the  fourth. — A.  The  fifth  is  the 
largest,  the  sixth  is  the  next,  and  the  next  is  the  fourth.  In  tlio  fourth 
there  are  very  large  smoking-tobacco  factories.  We  go  around  to  these 
men  now,  and  it  has  encouraged  their  business  so  much  that  they  treat 
us  very  nicely. 

Q.  In  relation  to  the  whisky  frauds  brought  to  light  in  the  sixth  dis- 
trict, I  will  ask  you,  have  they  not  been  done  by  revenue  officers  in  col- 
lusion in  some  way  with  the  frauds  for  which  these  distilleries  were 
seized;  if  the  storekeepers  connected  with  the  revenue  department 
have  not  been  generally  involved  in  it '. — A.  lu  some  cases  there  was 
sufficient  ground  for  removing  the  ofdcers,  and  they  were  removed. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Mr.  Cooper  was  chairman  of  the  Republican  executive  committee 
preceding  Dr.  Mott  ? — A.  I  so  understood  it. 

Q.  Was  he  in  the  revenue  service  then  ? — A.  He  was  not. 

Q.  He  was  not  a  revenue  officer  Avheu  he  was  at  the  head  of  the  com- 
mittee ? — A.  I  think  not. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  revenue  officers  who  were  at  the  head  of  this 
committee  except  at  this  time? — A.  Not  of  my  own  knowledge. 

Q.  Has  not  Dr.  Mott  resigned  the  office  1 — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  there  not  now  a  revenue  officer  at  the  head  of  the  executive 
committee  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  one  ever  having  been  at  the  head  of  the  exe- 
cutive committee  except  Dr.  Mott  before  he  went  out? — A.  I  am  not 
sure  about  that,  it  can  be  easily  ascertained ;  it  is  a  little  out  of  my 
time. 

Q.  In  speaking  of  abusing  witnesses,  and  of  cause,  it  is  a  general 
thing  that  witnesses  are  often  abused  in  courts — what  I  mean  to  say  is, 
Avere  not  the  revenue  officers  abused  Avorse  than  the  witnesses  in  other 
cases  ordinarily  are? — A.  I  cannot  say  as  to  that,  because  I  only  know 
as  to  the  United  States  courts.  I  never  have  heard  of  their  being- 
abused  in  these  courts  in  other  cases. 

Q.  Is  Dr.  Mott  a  popular  man  in  that  district  and  in  the  State  ? — A. 
I  think  he  is,  sir. 

Q.  Is  he  a  man  of  much  more  than  ordinary  pojuilarity  ? — A.  Oh, 


154  COLLECTiOX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

jes;  be  seems  to  l)e  the  bead  of  the  Iveiuiblican  element  tbere,  and  a 
man  tbat  is  well  tboufibt  of. 

Q.  Tben  J)r,  Mott  is  an  exception  to  tbe  old  liible  rule — tbat  tbe  tax 
gatherer  is  always  an  unpopular  man  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  su])pose  lie 
would  be,  but  be  does  not  stand  exactly  in  the  light  of  those  who  have 
to  go  around  among  tbe  people.  He  was  tbe  bead  of  it.  If  he  had  gone 
skipping-  around  among-  them,  the^'  would  have  made  it  as  warm  for 
him  as  for  us. 

The  following  witness  was  introduced  and  examined  for  Dr.  J.  J. 
Mott,  ex-collector  of  the  sixth  internal  revenue  district  of  Xorth  Caro- 
lina. 

W.  M.  Walker  sworn  and  examined. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  Where  do  you  reside? — Answer.  Statesville,  North  Caro- 
lina. 

Q.  How  old  are  you  ? — A.  Thirty-one. 

Q.  What  business  are  you  engaged  in  now  ? — A.  I  am  in  the  revenue 
service. 

Q.  How  long-  have  you  been  in  tbe  revenue  service  ? — A.  For  ten 
years  off  and  on,  not  steadih*  employed,  and  out  of  it  entirely  for  two 
years  at  one  time. 

Q.  1  want  to  ask  your  opinion  in  tbe  tirst  place  to  a  time  embracing 
nine  months,  commencing"  tbe  30th  of  September,  '72,  and  ending  the 
30th  of  June,  '73,  and  have  you  lix  those  dates  in  your  mind.  Mr. 
Kestler,  a  witness  ]>utupon  tbe  stand,  testifled  in  regard  to  some  vouch- 
ers that  were  put  in  his  own  name,  embracing  tbe  time  I  have  named 
to  you,  and  those  vouchers  amounted  to  8900,  at  the  rate  of  8100  a 
month  during  that  time.  ]\[r.  Clarke,  who  sent  those  vouchers  in, 
.stated  in  his  evidence  tbat  be  sent  them  forward  by  mistake,  specifying 
tbat  Kestler  was  a  deputy  collector  during  tbe  Avbole  of  that  time.  I 
want  you  to  examine  the  paper  here  and  the  statement  of  amount  of 
allowance  that  w  as  made  by  tbe  department  to  Dr.  Mott  during  tbat 
time  for  deputy  collectors.  (Paper  handed  to  witness.)  What  allow- 
ance was  made  for  deputy  collectors  for  the  year  commencing  June  30tb, 
'72? — A.  (Examining.)  This  is  for  three  deputies  at  $1,200  each — 
83.00(>. 

(^.  Tiicn  it  ai>])ears  tbat  Dr.  Mott  was  allowed  by  the  dei)artment  from 
June  30,  1872,  for  tbe  balance  of  the  liscal  year  running  to  June  30, 
1873,  for  three  deputies  at  a  $100  dollars  a  nu>iith  each  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

().  Which  amounted  to  $3,000.  1  will  ask,  if  there  bad  been  no 
change  in  tbat  allowance  it  would  have  run  for  the  whole  of  the  year 
to  .lune  3(1,  ]S73  ;  three  deputies  at  810(>  dollars  a  month  each? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  JV)OL.  ]\Ir.  Chairman,  I  want  to  put  in  evidence  this  letter  of  the 
Commissionei's  transmitting  tbe  ])aper  called  to  the  attention  of  the 
witn(!ss.     The  Icitcr  slates  what  it  contains.     (Marked  Exhibit  25.) 

THKASriiY    Dl'.rAlMMKNT, 

Okfice  oi'  L\ri:i!N.\i,  Ukvicnue, 

]yash\u<iti>ii.  Jioie  27,  1882. 

II. .11.    /.    r..    \   AN.    K. 

I   .    S.    Siliillnr: 

•Sil::  I  li;i  \r  I  he  liomii  Ici  ;ii|^  now  liili;r  ncri  |it  (if  \  (Mir  (■(iiinniniicat  ion  ol'  t  lie --'(itli 
ilislMiit ,  :inil  ill  ((Piiiiiliiini-i'  t  Ihtcw  it  li   I  ciiclnsr  fur  t  lie  use  of  \  our  coiiiiiii)  ( cc  copiois  of 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  155 

.s))eri;il  oi'dcrs  for  allowances  to  J.  J.  Mott,  cnlk-ctor  sixth  district  of  Noith  Caioliiia, 
uiailc  duriii.i;-  the  liscal  year.s  beginning'  Jnly  I,  lfi72,  and  July  1,  187:5. 

It  is  i)ropei'  to  add  that  said  aliowaiiuc^sfoiini'd  the  basis  of  the  settlcnu-nt  with  Col- 
lector Mott  for  salary  and  office  expenses  for  said  two  years. 
Very  respectfnllv, 

H.  C.  ROOERS, 

Act'uKj  Coiitmissioiier. 

And  then  to  put  in  evidence  this  paper.  I  hand  it  to  the  witness. 
It  is  the  copy  which  accompanied  the  letter,  marked  Exhibit  20, 

Treasury  Department, 

Office  of  Internal  Eevenie, 

Washimjton,  Juntlth,  187)}. 
Sir:  A  recommendation  is  hereby  made  that  the  special  allowance  granted  by  yon 
to  the  collector  of  the  (ith   district  of  North  Carolina,  nnder  date   of  Angnst  IGth, 

1872,  for  the  liscal  year  ending  Jnne  30th,  1«7:5,  be  cnt  otf  from  and  after  May  "<lOth, 

1873,  and  that  a  special  allowance  at  the  rate  of  .*12,liJ0  per  annum  be  granted  to  the 
collector  of  the  6th  district  of  North  Carolina  for  the  period  from  May  'ZOth.  to  June 
30tb,  1873,  and  to  be  applied  as  follows  : 

4  depnties,  at  $1..500  each  per  annum ,$(>,  000 

1  clerk,  at  $1,500  per  anuum 1,.500 

Rent,  at  |1.30  per  annum 150 

1  special  deputy  at  Charlotte  for  the  purpose  of  examining  tobacco,  spirits, 

&.C.,  which  pass  through  that  city  per  railroad,  at  .^IjSOU  per  annum 1,.500 

Collector's  salary,  !5i3,00O  per  annum 3,  000 

Total 12,  15(1 

This  reconuneudation  is  rendered  necessary  by  reason  of  the  additional  expenses  de- 
volving upon  the  collector  iu  carrying  out  the  provisions  of  the  act  of  December  24, 
1872. 

Very  respectfully, 

J.  W.  DOUGLASS, 

Commissioner. 
Hon.  Wm  a.  Richardson, 

Secretary  of  the  Treasury. 

Treasury  Department. 
First  Comptroller's  Office,  June  20,  1873. 
Respectfnlly  returned  to  the  Hon.  Seci'etary  of  the  Treasury.     I  concur  iu  the  with- 
in recommendation. 

WM.  HEMPHILL  JONES, 

Acting  Comptroller. 

Treasury  Department, 

J»H«23,''73. 
As  herein  recommended  I  grant  to  the  collector  of  internal  revenue  of  the  6th  col- 
lection district  of  North  Carolina  a  special  allowance  at  the  rate  of  )i;l2,150  per  annum, 
from  May  20  to  June  30,  1873,  iu  lieu  of  salary,  commissions,  and  previous  allowance 
for  said  period  ;  provided,  that  the  personal  compensation  of  the  collector  shall  not 
exceed  the  rate  of  |!3,000per  annum,  and  that  projter  youchersfor  office  expenses  shall 
be  furnished. 

FREDERICK  A.  SAWYER, 
Acting  Secretary  of  the  Treasury. 

Treasury  Department, 

Office  of  Internal  Revenue, 

If'ashington,  August  7th,  1872. 
Sir:  I  have  the  honor  to  recommend  that  for  the  fiscal  year  euding  June  30th,  1873, 
there  be  allowed  to  the  collector  of  the  6th  district  of  North  Carolina,  in  lieu  of  the 
regular  salary  and  commissions  prescribed  by  law,  the  sum  of  eighty-three  hundred 
dollars  (iS;8,300),  to  be  paid  in  eijnal  monthly  installments,  and  to  be  applied  as  fol- 
lows: 

Personal  salai-y  to  the  collector,  per  annum §3.  000 

3  deputies  ®  $1,200  each 3.600 

1  clerk 1,500 

Rent 150 

Fuel  and  lights 50 

$8  300 


156  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Aud  that  tlie  expense  attending  the  adniinistiation  of  the  ottice  shall  be  sustained 
by  proper  vouchers. 
■j^'E8tiniate<l  collections,  $200,000. 
Yerv  respectfully, 

B.  J.  SWEET, 

Act'o  Commissioner. 
Hon.  Geo.  S.  Boutwell, 

Sec'y  oj  the  Treasury. 

Treasury  Department, 

Comptroller's  Office, 

August  15//(,  1872. 
I  concur  in  the  within  recommendation. 

WM.  HEMPHILL  JONES, 

Acting  Comi)troller. 

Treasury  Department, 

August  \i\th,  1872. 
As  recommended  by  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue  aud  concurred  in  by  the 
First  Comptroller,  the  sum  of  §8,300  is  hereby  allowed  by  the  Collector  of  Internal 
Revenue  for  the  6th  district  of  North  Carolina,  in  lieu  of  the  regular  salary  and  com- 
missions prescribed  by  law,  for  the  fiscal  year  ending  .luue  30,  1873,  to  be  paid  in  equal 
monthly  installments,  and  to  be  applied  as  herein  stated,  the  expenses  attending  the 
administration  of  the  office  to  be  sustained  by  jiroper  vouchers. 

WM.  A.  RICHARDSOISf, 

Acting  Secretary  of  the  Treasury. 

Treasury  Department, 
Office  of  Internal  Revenue, 

Washington.  July  Wth,  1873. 

Sir  :  A  recommendation  is  hereby  made  that  a  special  allowance  of  $13,250  be  granted 
to  the  collector  of  the  6th  district  of  North  Carolina  for  the  fiscal  year  ending  June 
30th,  1874,  in  lieu  of  the  salary  and  commissions  prescribed  by  law,  to  be  jiaid  in  equal 
monthly  installments,  aud  to  be  applied  as  follows: 

Personal  salarv  to  collector,  per  annum $3,  000 

4  depnties.  §1,500  each,  "         "        6,000 

1  dei.ntv  ct  clerk,  "         "        1,500 

1  clerk,'  "  '•         1,000 

Rent.  "         "        200 

FueKV-  lights,  "         "        ■ 50 

1  special  deputy  at  Charlotte,  for  the  pnrpose  of  examining  spirits,  tobacco, 

&c.,  which  pass  through  that  city,  per  railroad,  per  annum 1,500 

*Total §13,250 

Provided  the  expense  attending  the  administration  of  the  office  shall  be  sustained 
bv  ]>roper  vouchers. 
'  Estimated  collections,  §252,500. 
Very  ri'spectfullv, 

J.  W.  DOUGLASS, 

Commissioner. 
Hon.  Wm.  a.  Richardson, 

Secretary  of  the  Treasury. 

Treasury  Department, 
First  Comptroller's  Office, 

August  6,  1873. 
Appruvcd. 

R.  W.  TAYLER, 

Conq)trol1er. 

Treasury  Department, 

August  8,  1873. 

I  in  icliy  graut  llic  :ill()wancc  recoi 'uded  herciu  by  the  Commissioner  of  Internal 

Rcvciiuf  and  tlic  I'irst  < 'ouiiitridier  of  i he  Treasury. 

WM.  A.  RICHARDSON, 

Secretarij. 

(,).  Oil  tho  LMltli  of  :M;iy,  1S7.".,  \v;ls  tlicrc  aclinii.u'O  iiiado  by  tlio  <lopart- 
iiicrit  ill  tlir  ;illo\v;iiicc  tli:it  \v;is  inii(l(^  tlic.  ,1  iily  i»r('Aioiis,  according-  to 
tlic  |i;i|MT  \<tii  ludd  ill  your  liniid  .' — A.    Yes,  sir. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  157 

Q.  State  wliat  tlie  cliniige  was — that  is,  in  rc'gaid  to  tlie  deputies;  how 
many  were  alhiwed  for  the  bahiiice  ot  the  fiscal  year? — A.  The  collector 
was  allowed  fourdei)iities,  at  $1,500  each  per  annum,  commencing'  from 
the  20th  of  May  and  running  to  June  30,  1873. 

Q.  According  to  these  papers  how  much  was  he  allowed  for  deputies 
for  the  nine  months,  taking  his  allowance  for  deputies  u])  to  the  liOth  of 
]\[ay  ?  Jn  the  first  place,  he  was  allowed  $300  a  month,  until  the  I'Oth  of 
:Mav  ?— A.  Which  made  $l*,4<Sa.yo. 

Q.  For  what  time  was  that?  Up  to  the  I'Oth  of  May  from  the  30th  of 
Sei)tember  would  be  7|  mouths,  at  $300  a  nujuth  ? — A.  That  makes 
-$2,300  up  to  that  time. 

Q.  If  they  allowed  $500  a  month  for  four  deputies,  according  to  the 
readjustnu^iit  $125  for  each,  Now  from  the  20th  of  May  to  the  30th  of 
June,  a  nu)nth  and  a  third  of  the  $500,  makes  $063.33;  adding  these 
two  amounts  together  would  aggregate  $2,90().33,  would  it  not? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Just  the  entire  allowance  for  the  nine  nu^nths  in  the  statement  to 
Dr.  Mott  for  deputy  collectors? — A.  That  is  right. 

Q.  Will  you  use  your  pencil  ?  Mr.  Eamsay  swore  that  during  that  time 
he  was  one  of  the  deputies,  and  that  he  received  only  the  amount  that 
was  allowed  to  him.  What  would  be  the  amount  due  Mr.  Eamsay  at 
$100  a  month  for  the  time,  from  September  30  up  to  May  20,  that  is  7§ 
months;  $700.66,  would  it  not? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  jSTow,  at  $125  for  a  month  and  a  half,  from  May  20  up  to  June 

30,  1873,  it  would  amount  to  $166.66,  making    the  aggregate  to  Mr. 
Ramsay,  $933.33? — A.  For  his  part  during  that  nine  months. 

Q.  Put  it  down  $933.33?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Mr.  Kestler  testified,  that  from  the  1st  of  October,  1872,  to  the 
20th  of  October,  1872,  two-thirds  of  a  month,  he  received  $05.  Put 
that  down  under  the  $933.33.  Mr.  Kestler  went  out  on  the  20th  of 
October,  1872.  Were  you  appointed  to  succeed  him  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  at 
least  I  was  appointed  about  that  time. 

Q.  Can  you  tell  by  reference  to  a  paper  that  it  was  the  exact  date 
that  you  were  appointed  ? — A.  I  was  appointed  as  soon  as  Dr.  Mott  was 
collector.  My  commission  was  never  taken  from  me  whether  I  worked 
or  not. 

Q.  When  you  were  put  to  work  were  you  put  to  work  October  20, 
1872  ? — A.  I  was  at  work  October  1.     I  worked  from  September  30. 

Q.  I  ask  you  how  much  you  received ;  what  amount  you  received  from 
Dr.  Mott,  as  deputv  collector,  from  October  20,  1872,  onto  May  20,1873? 
—A.  I  received  $699.83. 

Q.  Put  that  amount  down  under  the  two  items  you  have  there. — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

(Exhibits  13  and  14  handed  witness.) 

Q.  From  September  30,  1872,  until  December  31, 1872,  inclusive,  how 
much  is  that  for  W.  P.  Drake? — A.  It  is  $450,  on  this  voucher. 

Q.  How  much  was  allowed  to  Mr.  Drake,  from  September  20  to 
December  31  ? — A.  I  see  right  here  (Exhibit  13)  on  the  amended 
voucher,  for  these  three  months,  $300. 

Q.  (Exhibit  16  handed  to  witness.)  What  is  it  for  the  next  three 
months,  ending  March  31,  1873  ? — A.  From  Januarj'  1,  1873,  to  March 

31,  1873,  inclusive,  three  months,  the  voucher  here  is  for  $450;  the 
amended  voucher  (Exhibit  17)  shoAvs  he  received  $300. 

Q.  Then  Mr.  Drake  was  allowed  $600  for  the  six  months  commencing 
September  30  to  March  31  following  ? — A.  Y''es,  sir. 

Q.  Now,  I  wish  you  to  look  at  the  voucher  of  Dr.  H.  G.  Mott  from 


158  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

March  31  until  June  .U),  suo<.'eediiio-  Mr.  Drake.  (Exhibit  11  handed  to 
witness.)  (Examining.)  What  did  he  receive  ? — A.  He  received,  as  the 
voucher  shows,  8o3lM»7. 

Q.  Put  that  down  under  your  other  fij^ures.  Now  look  at  the  certifi- 
cate from  the  dei)artnient  there — the  proper  one — and  take  Mr.  Mcin- 
tosh from  May  20  to  June  30,  '73.  (Exhibit  10  handed).— A.  Mcin- 
tosh's voucher  runs  from  May  1  to  June  30 — two  months,  at  $200. 

(}.  What  was  allowed  him  t — A.  (Exhibit  11.)  The  amended  report 
allows  him  $171. 

Q.  Allowed  by  tbe  department  for  that  time? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I'ut  that  down.  Xow  take  Mr.  Bryan  from  May  20  to  June  30. 
'73.  in  the  original  allowance.— A.  From  May  20  to  June  30,  '73,  $200. 

Q.  What  was  allowed  him  by  the  department? — A.  Allowed  $171. 

Q.  Put  that  down  under  the  other  fifiures.  These  allowances  to  Mr. 
Drake,  Mr.  ]Mott,  Mr.  Mcintosh,  and  Mr.  Bryan  are  for  deputy  collect- 
ors f — A.  Yes,  sir, 

Q.  Will  vou  add  up  that  aggregate  and  see  what  it  amounts  to  ? — A. 
It  is  $1,974.80. 

Q.  Add  to  that  $1,974.80  the  amount  that  was  allowed  to  Mr.  Eam- 
say,  $933.33,  which  he  swore  he  received,  and  the  $65  that  Kestlersaid 
he\-eceived.— A.  It  makes  $2,973.13. 

Q.  You  said  that  the  entire  allowance  made  for  Dr.  Mott,  the  collec- 
tor, in  that  nine  months  was  $2,906.33? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  have  shown  he  paid  out  to  his  deputy  collectors  $2,997.13  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  A^dthin  a  few  dollars  overpaid  to  his  deputy  collectors  of  what 
was  allowed  him  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  want  to  simply  account  for  the  disbursement  of  the  entire  amount 
allowed  him  for  the  time  when  he  disbursed  to  Mr.  Kestler  only  the 
,$05  ? — A.  Six  dollars  and  eighty  cents  is  the  difference. 

Q.  He  overpaid  to  his  deputy  collectors  in  the  same  way  $6.80  for  the 
nine  mouths  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Can  you  state  the  number  of  times  that  you  have  been  assigned 
to  duty  in  North  Carolina  since- July  1,  '76,  and  where  you  were  as- 
signed as  deputy  collector  and  gauger  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  When  Dr.  Mott 
first  brought  the  office  to  Statesville  there  were  very  few  of  us,  and  we 
just  worked  wherever  we  could.     Had  to  travel  all  the  time. 

Q.  That  was  in  '72  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  I  had  four  or  five  couuties  to  travel 
over,  and  since  then  I  have  been  storekeeper,  some  times  assigned  to 
three  or  four  dilfcrent  distideries  as  storekeeper ;  then  on  the  raiding 
force  as  a  si)ecial  <lei)uty,  and  W(»rke<l  some  in  the  oflBce,  assigned  to 
duty  there.  In  fact,  I  have  done  work  in  every  branch  under  the  doctor, 
f  bclitn'e. 

(}.  Your  oflicial  duties  have  enabled  you  to  become  well  acquainted 
wiih  the  collection  district? — A.   Yes,  sir;  I  think  so. 

(,).  Will  you  state  whether  some  four  years  ago  there  was  not  a  dispo- 
siiioii  to  resist  the  executicm  of  the  law  in  that  district,  and  to  evade 
it  ill  various  ways?  And  please  give  the  general  condition  of  the  district 
ill  your  own  way. — A.  \Vell,  sir,  it  was  very  hard  there  a  few  years 
back  ;  ill  fact,  up  to  t\w,  amnesty  we  had  no  showing  at  all;  since  the 
amnesty  we  have  been  eoiiiitenaneed  by  the  better  part  of  the  iieojde 
of  tlie  district. 

().  What  was  the  amnesty  ,' — A,  'IMie  t  iine  Cominissioner  Kaiiin  issued 
an  order  to  come  up  and  pU'ad  guilty  and  i)ay  tlie  costs,  and  everybody 
niaking  a  promise  to  do  lustier  in  Ihr  future  and  not  to  Idoekade  any 
more. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  159 

Q.  You  mean  tliose  indicted? — A.  Every  one.  The  amnesty  was  to 
every  one  to  come  up  and  acknowledj'e,  and  to  pay  costs  if  ;ible  to  do 
so.     It  was  a  general  amnesty  and  i)roniise  not  to  Itlockade  any  more. 

Q.  What  time  was  that? — A.  I  have  for<^(»tten  exactly;  it  mnst  have 
been  in  1879  or  188(».  Up  to  that  time  it  was  very  difticult  for  a  raiding- 
force  to  get  anywhere  to  stay  or  anything  to  eat  in  our  district.  Some- 
times we  had  to  lie  out  all  night,  without  either  food  for  horses  or  our- 
selves, and  do  the  best  we  could.  We  adopted  the  i)lan  of  taking  a 
wagon  with  us  and  just  cami>ing  out.  doing  uj)  in  tlui  mountains,  we 
would  hire  a  negro  boy  and  send  him  on  before  us.  lie  could  then  buy 
some  chickens.  Hour,  and  bacon.  This  was  when  away  from  town;  in 
the  towns  we  could  buy  jirovisions;  but  we  just  took  a  supply  with  us 
from  the  towns.  Goiug  off  iu  the  mountains,  we  could  not  buy  anywhere 
up  there,  but  this  negro  boj'  could,  by  i)retending  tirst  one  thing  and 
then  another. 

Q.  They  would  not  sell  to  the  revenue  offlcers '? — A.  Xo,  sir;  not  at 
any  price;  but  we  managed  it  in  that  way  for  sometime.  We  were 
fired  on  occasionally,  and  two  or  three  of  us  shot,  and  a  horse  or  two 
killed  for  us. 

Q.  And  generally  there  was  a  very  bad  state  of  feeling  in  the  dis- 
trict ? — A.  At  that  time  there  was,  sir. 

Q.  The  revenue  officers  were  denounced  and  reviled  ? — A,  Oh,  yes,. 
sir ;  we  were  put  down  for  everytliing  that  could  be  thought  bad ;  as  a 
"red-legged  grasshopper"  was  the  governor's  pet  name,  and  the  only 
pet  name  that  we  got.    That  we  called  our  pet  name. 

Q.  Were  you  denounced  there  on  the  stump  by  political  speakers? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  called  "  white-livered  scoundrels,"  "  whisky-smellers,"  and 
"thieves";  "that  while  our  horses  were  drinking  in  thewbrauch  w^e 
could  smell  a  distillery  off  a  mile  or  two." 

Q.  That  was  said  on  the  stump? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  By  the  Democratic  speakers  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  It  was  a  common  thing  for  that  to  be  indulged  in  on  the  stum})? — 
A.  Yes,  sir.  In  the  campaign  of  '70;  they  did  not  have  much  more  to 
talk  about;  the  Ku-Klux  had  fallen  out. 

Q.  Did  that  have  a  tendency  to  excite  the  people  against  you  ? — A.. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  to  embarrass  you  in  the  discharge  of  your  duties  ? — A.  It 
made  them  insult  us  on  all  occasions ;  whenever  they  met  us  they  thre\v 
u])  something  to  us  that  they  had  heard  some  of  the  speakers  say  that 
they  thought  smart. 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  number  of  illicit  distilleries  seized  by  Dr.  Mott 
iu  that  district  since  '70  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  I  do  not.  Since  I  have  been  in 
the  service,  should  say  it  was  something  over  five  or  six  hundred ;  I 
have  cut  up  myself  in  one  raid  twenty-seven  stills  in  a  day ;  thirty-odd 
were  cut  up  in  Yadkin  County  one  day ;  I  was  not  on  that  raid,  but  oft" 
in  another  part  of  the  district ;  but  so  it  was  ^stated  to  me. 

Q.  Was  it  safe  in  those  times  for  revenue  officers,  unattended  and  un- 
armed, to  go  over  that  district  ? — A.  It  would  be  owing  to  what  business 
he  went  on  and  how  he  went.  There  would  be  a  good  deal  of  difference. 
I  could  at  thai  time  go  through  any  part  of  the  dangerous  counties  up 
there  collecting  the  deficiencies;  that  is,  if  you  would  go  to  a  uum's 
house  and  say,  "  I*ay  me  " ;  if  he  said  "  No,"  just  ride  on.  A  man  could 
enter  at  one  end  of  a  num's  plantation,  and  if  he  did  not  see  him  till  he 
got  up  to  him,  he  would  hardly  shoot  him,  and  let  him  also  get  out;  but 
let  one  enter  there  to  cut  up  a  distillery,  and  it  would  be  rather  a  dan- 
gerous place  for  hiin. 


160  COLLECTIOX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Did  they  promptly  pay  these  assessments  ? — A.  No,  sir.  I  did 
not  collect  any  in  the  mountain  districts ;  I  never  had  a  division  there ; 
others  were  assigned  there;  I  never  had  much  trouble;  always  been 
down  out  of  the  mountains;  have  heard  of  officers  saying  they  would 
ride  up  and  ask  if  they  were  going  to  pay  them ;  but  that  they  would 
have  to  wait  until  you  could  catch  them  soujewhere  else,  when  others 
were  around,  and  tell  them  they  had  to  i)ay  or  levy  on  a  horse. 

Q.  It  was  not  safe  to  undertake  to  force  them  to  pay  ? — A.  IS^ot  around 
their  home  places.  I  am  only  si)eakiug  of  some  places ;  1  mean  by  that 
that  there  was  in  Catawba  County  a  deputy  collector  who  went  to  a  citi- 
zen there  to  collect  the  deficiency.  He  had  l)een  sent  there  three  or  four 
times,  and  could  not  get  it.  He  went  over  to  the  stable  to  take  one  of 
his  mules ;  he  took  out  the  mule.  The  man  first  got  his  gun  down  and 
threatened  to  shoot  him.  He  had  come  to  Statesville  and  got  a  couple 
of  young  men  to  act  with  him.  The  man  had  a  half-witted  fellow,  and 
he  told  him  to  get  his  axe  and  cut  that  fellow  up.  The  man  started, 
and  tlie  deputy  shot  him.  This  was  within  twenty-five  miles  of  the  col- 
lector's office. 

Q.  Was  there  a  disposition  on  the  part  of  the  people  to  protect  and 
shield  the  offenders  ? — A.  There  was  at  that  time ;  yes,  sir.  We  never 
got  any  information  from  any  one  until  since  the  amnesty.  Xow  the 
better  i»art  of  the  citizens  will  give  information  of  some  things,  and  that 
has  helped  us  so  much  to  break  up  this  illicit  distilling. 

Q.  Do  you  know  al)Out  witnesses  being  abused  and  Itrowbeaten  in 
court  when  brought  up  in  revenue  cases? — A.  Yes,  sir;  heard  some  of 
them  abused  right  smartly.  I  heard  a  speech  made  in  a  court-house  in 
Statesville  not  long  ago  by  a  gentleman  there,  a  lawyer,  who  knew  the 
man  he  wa'fe  abusing  never  touched  a  drop  of  liquor  in  his  life,  in  which 
he  called  him  a  drunken  revenue  officer,  and  it  was  pretty  hard. 

Q.  Do  you  think  the  political  turn  this  thing  took  aud  the  denuncia- 
tions that  followed  it  embarrassed  Dr.  Mott  and  his  officers  in  the  exe- 
cution of  their  duty  to  the  government  ? — A.  Some  of  them  it  did. 

Q.  Did  it  eucourage  men  in  the  violation  of  law? — A.  1  think  so,  sir. 

Q.  Has  there  been  any  improvement  in  the  district  in  recent  years'? — 
A.  Oh,  yes,  sir. 

Q.  State  the  extent  of  the  iui]novement — how  much? — A.  I  think 
there  is  very  little  blockading  going  on  in  the  district  now.  It  is  scat- 
tered from  there.  There  is  a  little  illicit  whisky-makiug  and  also  to- 
bacco, 1  sup]>ose. 

Q.  Is  there  a  better  feeling  among  the  people? — A.  Yes,  sir.  The 
])eople  that  a  few  years  ago  would  not  give  you  anything  to  eat  now  are 
])erfectly  willing  to  keej)  us  all  night  aud  feed  our  stock  and  us  the  best 
they  can. 

Q.  Is  there  as  much  of  the  denunciation  by  politicians  now  as  there 
used  to  Ix',  ? — A.  I  don't  know  about  that;  they  are  played  out.  I  don't 
know  how  it  will  be  in  tlu^  next  canii)aign. 

().  Do  you  hud  less  deuum-iatiou  amoug  the  masses  of  the  ])eople  gen- 
erally at  reveuue  ollicers  ;  less  now  thau  it  used  to  be? — A.  Oh,  yes,  sir. 
\V<'  lire  treated  now  sometliiug  like  wliite  folks,  mostly,  wherever  we  go. 

(^.  1  want  to  <lir<'et  youi'  attenliou  to  tliese  <listi]l(M'ies  of  small  capac- 
ity. I  las  the  ado])tiou  of  this  system  of  small  distilh'ries  been  a  benefit 
to  that  distrii'J  '—A.  1  fliiuk  so,  sir.  There  are  a  good  many  men  who 
<-ould  not  run  a  t«Mi  or  tweh'e  bushel  capacity,  but  who  can  run  a  four- 
l)usliel  e;i|)a(;ity. 

(}.   Do  they  IiiiNf  any  ti'ouhh'  about  getting  water  to  run  their  distill- 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  161 

eries  during  the  yearf — A.  Yes,  sir.     In  the  summer  time  it  requires  at 
good  deal  more  water,  and  always  there  is  less  water  in  the  branches. 

Q.  In  order  to  run  one  of  tliese  distilleries  profitably  it  has  to  ruii; 
the  year  round  to  feed  the  stock,  &c.  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  with  the  exceptioit 
of  one  month.  A  man  that  has  a  good  farm  and  so  on,  he  can  pasture^ 
his  stock  for  a  month  on  his  wheat  pasture  aiul  oats.  He  can  run  theiiia 
on  that  for  a  little  while.  Outside  of  that  they  have  to  keep  up  the  dis- 
tillery or  the  stock  goes  down. 

Q.  13y  dividiug  a  large  still  into  two  or  more  small  ones  a  man  can 
move  over  to  branches  here  and  there  to  get  more  water,  so  as  to  rurj 
the  W'hole  year  ? — A.  Yes  ;  to  run  that  way  it  is  much  better  in  the  siun- 
mer  time,  and  also  on  account  of  the  stock.  If  he  is  keeping  a  four- 
bushel  distillery,  he  keeps  35  or  40  head  of  hogs  and  4  or  5  cows^  Ieb 
dividing  up,  a  man  that  has  got  stock — where  there  are  so  many  together., 
they  are  more  ai)t  to  get  the  cholera  and  die  out.  By  dividing  theus 
off  into  different  lots  clear  away  from  each  other  they  get  along  a  heap* 
better. 

Q.  And  that  is  one  of  the  reasons  that  the  distillers  i>refer  toihave 
small  distilleries  to  large  ones! — Yes,  sir;  that  is  one  of  the  reasous- 
I  know  of  other  reasons. 

Q.  State  them. — A.  At  tlie  end  of  the  month  every  distiller  has  tt* 
give  a  warehouse  bond,  a  bond  for  double  the  taxes  on  the  amount  of 
spirits  he  made  the  month  before.  With  those  men  down  there  it  is  a 
little  ditticult  to  give  a  large  bond.  Men  running  12  or  15  bushels^ 
they  require  a  justified  bond,  and  it  is  very  hard  to  give  it;,  w.herea.s  if 
he  divides  up  his  distilleries  he  can  get  two  of  his  neighbors- ouioue^ 
bond,  and  go  off  to  the  other  distillery  and  get  his  neighbors  there,  anil 
have  less  trouble.  If  he  is  running  a  large  distillery  he  will  have  to  go 
to  town  or  off  to  the  river  i)lantations  to  get  some  of  those  big  men  to 
go  upon  his  bond. 

Q.  And  that  has  to  be  done  every  month  ''. — A.  It  is  the  only  advan- 
tage they  have  now. 

Q.  You  don't  know  another  advantage! — A.  No,  sir.  A  man  may  be 
able  to  run  a  large  distillery  and  not  have  stock  soujetijues  to  eat  u[> 
the  slops;  but  that  is  where  the  biggest  profit  is  in  distilling,,  in  the 
stock. 

Q.  Then  he  wonld  want  his  capacity  reduced  ! — A.  Yes,  sir.  Some- 
times they  get  out  of  stock ;  hogs  take  the  cholera  and  die;  then  he  ha.S'. 
to  stop  altogether  if  he  is  running  a  small  distillerj"^ 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  when  Mr.  Clarke  was  sent  down,.orrecommendetl 
by  Mr.  Perry,  and  Br.  Mott  appointed  him  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.. 

Q.  That  was  in  1872  ? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  Did  he  take  entire  charge  of  the  whole  oftice?— A_.  Yes-,  sir. 

Q.  In  order  to  show  you  men  how  to  conduct  it?— A^  Well,  sir,  I  Just 
believe  he  came  there  to  stay.  None  of  us  knew"  anything  about  the 
revenue  service. 

Q.  And  Dr.  ^Nlott  was  recently  appointed? — A.  Yes,. sir. 

Q.  Did  Dr.  Mott  turn  over  everything  to  him  and  let  him  run  it? — ^Ao. 
Yes,  sir ;  he  had  everything  in  charge. 

Q.  How  long  did  he  stay  in  charge  of  everything  in  that  way  t — A.  1 
don't  know;  he  was  in  charge  up  to  1874,  I  think. 

Q.  Did  it  embrace  the  time  that  Kestler's  voucher.s  were  put  out  here? 
Of  course  it  did,  if  it  was  '74. — A.  Yes,  sir, 

Q.  Mr.  Clarke  stated  in  his  evidence  that  he  issued  those  vorochers 
that  were  disapi^roved,  supposing  Kestler  was  one  of  the  deputies.    Was^ 
it  the  custom  amoiig  you  officers  to  let  Clai  ke  sign  your  uauu's  to  these? 
S.  Mis.  UG 11 


162  COLLECTION    OF    INTERN^VL    REVENUE    IN 

formal  papers  that  were  sent  in? — A.  Clarke  did  all  my  writing  for  me 
made  out  my  reports  and  .sij>ned  my  name  while  I  was  not  there. 

Q.  Was  that  the  case  with  other  officers? — A.  I  think  that  was  tlie 
€ase  with  most  of  us.  We  did  not  know  how  to  make  out  our  jiay  ac- 
counts or  anything  else. 

Q.  Did  he  make  out  the  general  statements  and  certificates  of  Dr. 
Mott?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  he  signed  Dr.  Mott's  name  in  his  absence 
sometimes? — A.  He  signed  Dr.  Mott's  name,  sir. 

Q.  We  are  under  the  impression  tliat  Clarke  said,  wlien  on  the  stand, 
that  Dr.  Mott  signed  a  certificate  in  connecticm  with  this  Kestler  matter. 
I  will  give  you  the  paper  and  have  you  say  if  it  is  his  signature.  [Ex- 
hibits 10  and  17  handed  to  witness.]  Look  at  both  the  original  and 
amended  abstract. — A.  [Examining.]  The  doctor  did  not  sign  that,  the 
"original,"  and  did  sign  the  "amended." 

Q.  Is  that  in  regard  to  the  Kestler ? — A.  Mr.  Kestler's  name  is 

on  the  original. 

Q,  And  you  say  that  certificate,  or  the  original,  is  not  in  Dr.  Mott's 
handwriting? — A.  The  original  is  not;  the  amended  is. 

Q.  Kestler's  name  is  out  of  that  amended  one  Dr.  Mott  signed? — A. 
So  it  seems;  out  of  that  one. 

Q.  What  is  the  date  of  that?— A.  December  31. 

Q.  You  say  he  did  not  sign  the  certificate  to  the  original? — A.  No, 
sir. 

Q.  The  original  embraces  Kestler's  voucher? — A.  Yes  sir. 

Q.  And  the  amended  does  not  embrace  Kestler? — A.  No,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Pool,  you  have  not  x>ut  the  i)reliminary  ques- 
..Jtions  to  the  witness  as  to  his  acquaintance  and  familiarity  with  Dr. 
Mo  t's  handwriting. 

Mr.  I^ooL.  I  will  do  so. 

Q.  (To  witness.)  He  did  sign  the  amended  one  in  that  instance?  [Ex- 
hibit n  handed  to  witness.] — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  he  did. 

Q.  Now,  you  have  stated  positively  that  Dr.  Mott  did  not  sign  those 
Aouchcrs;  do  you  know  Dr.  INIott's  handwriting? — A.  I  think  1  do;  I 
Jiuow  his  signature;   would  not  say  1  know  his  writing. 

Q.  You  have  been  in  his  employ  as  deputy  and  ganger  many  years? — 
A.  Almost  ten  years. 

Q.  Have  you  seen  his  signature  a  great  many  times'? — A.  It  was  signed 
by  (UttVrcnt  offi(;ers  and  signed  by  myself  a  great  many  times,  to  see  if 
we  could  distinguish  it  from  any  cleik  in  the  office. 

Q.  You  know  when  it  is  signed  by  himself  and  when  it  is  not? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Was  it  generally  understood  that  no  one  c(mld  sign  Dr.  Mott's 
name  so  that  it  could  not  be  distinguishable  from  his  own  signature? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  we  all  gave  it  uj). 

Q.  Y(»u  could  not  sign  it  like  he  signed  it? — A.  No,  sir. 

(}.  Do  not  some  of  I)r.  Mott's  officers  sign  his  name  in  the  ordinary 
course  of  business? — A.  Mr.  Brown  signs  tlie  stamps,  and  Mr.  Coite  the 
reports. 

t^.  \'on  all  ga\('  np  trying  to  sign  his  mune  as  he  did  himself?— A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  J  understood  yon  to  say  that  you  commenced  as  a  <lei)uty  under 
Dr.  Mott  the  1st  of  ()«;lobei-.  1  wish  you  would  look  thei'e  [handing 
]>;iper  to  witness]  an<l  say  if  you  were  not  mistaken,  ami  if  it  was  not 
f  hi'  -I)!)!  of  October. — A.   It  was  the  1st  of  October. 

<,).    Look  at    the   pa)>er  and   see  whether  it   does  not  appear  you  com- 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  163 

inenced  the  2Ist  iustead  of  the  1st  of  October. — A.  No,  sir;  I  commenced 
the  1st  of  October  [examiiiing-J ;  that  is  the  21st  of  October. 

Q.  That  is  a  record  from  the  department  which  shows  it? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q,  You  were,  then,  mistaken? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  That  only  shows  when  his  pay  began,  not  necessa- 
rily his  commission. 

Mr.  Pool.  Only  shows  his  pay  began  when  Kestler's  ceased;  lie  took 
Kestler's  i)lace. 

Adjourned  till  to-morrow,  June  30,  1  p.  m. 


Washington,  D.  C,  June  30, 1882. 
The  committee  met  at  1  p.  m. 

J.  T.  McIntosh  sworn  and  examined  for  the  government. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  Where  is  your  residence"? — Answer.  Alexander  County, 
North  Carolina. 

Q.  Were  yon  at  any  time  connected  with  the  service  of  the  Internal 
Eeveuue  Department? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  From  when,  and  to  when  ? — A.  I  thmk  I  was  a])pointed  in  1872, 
by  Colonel  Henderson  ;  that  is  my  recollection  about  it. 

Q.  How  long  did  you  serve  ? — A.  I  have  been  engaged  off  and  on  ever 
since  until  the  last  year ;  about  nine  years  was  all  the  time  I  was  in 
the  service. 

Q.  In  what  capacity'  ? — A.  I  was  first  aj)pointed  assessor  ;  I  think  I 
was  next  appointed  special  deputy ;  that  is  my  recollection  under  Dr. 
Mott.  Then  I  was  a[)pointed  ganger,  and  afterwards  was  appointed 
storekeeper  and  ganger,  and  also  held  the  office  of  surveyor — the  last 
office — of  brandy  distilleries,  fruit  distilleries. 

Q.  How  much  service  did  you  render  in  1873  ? — A.  I  declare  I  don't 
remember. 

Q.  I  see  a  voucher  here  purporting  to  be  signed  by  you.  Is  that  your 
own  signature  ?  (Handing  to  witness.) — A.  "J.  T.  Mcintosh,  Deputy." 
Y"es,  sir ;  I  think  it  is. 

Q.  (Reading.)  "J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of  internal  revenue  6  district  of 
N.  C,  to  J.  T.  Mcintosh,  Dr.,  for  services  rendered  as  deputy  of  the  0  dis- 
trict of  N.  C.  during  the  period  commencing  May  1st,  1873,  and  endiug 
June  30,  1873,  inclusive;  two  months  at  the  rate  of  $1,200  per  annum, 
$200.  The  services  were  performed  at  Taylorsville,  Alexander  Co., 
Newton,  Catawba  Co.,  and  were  of  the  following  character :  Looking 
after  persons  liable  to  special  tax,  taking  return  of  distillers  and  manu- 
facturers of  tobacco.  Received  payment,  J.  T.  Mcintosh,  Dept'y  Coll.," 
with  the  usual  affidavit.  Did  you  render  that  service  for  May  and  June, 
1873  ? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  I  was  employed  about  that  time. 

Q.  Did  you  receive  that  money,  $200? — A.  I  received  $100. 

Q.  Only  $100?— A.  A  hundred. 

Q.  Why  did  you  not  receive  the  other? — A.  Dr.  Mott  gave  me  a 
€heck  for  $100  on  the  Statesville  Bank,  and  afterwards  told  me  that 
some  of  the  other  deputies,  Mr.  Lillington  and  others,  were  not  getting 
some  of  their  pay ;  that  the  approjn'iation  had  fell  short,  or  something 
to  that  effect ;  and  that  he  would  have  to  pay  them  some  out  of  mine, 
and  paid  me  $100. 


164  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

i).  Tliat  was  all  tliat  you  ever  received  for  this  work  i — A.  Yes,  sir  ^ 
that  is  my  recollection  as  to  it. 

Q.  Were  the  deputies  all  paid  the  same,  or  some  more  than  the  others  ? 
— A.  They  paid  differently;  some  higher  than  $1,200,  one  $125,  and 
perhaps  higher. 

Q.  I  see  in  that  abstract  which  contains  the  amount  of  this  voucher, 
the  amended  voucher  j)urporting  to  be  Exhibit  Xo.  11,  that  you  did  re- 
ceive $171 ;  you  say  that  is  correct? — A.  Ordy  one  check  for  $100. 

Q.  During  the  time  you  were  in  office  what  political  assessments  were 
jou  called  upon  to  pay  f — A.  I  never  was  called  upon  to  pay  very  much. 
I  believe  I  was  direct  Iv  called  upon  at  one  time. 

Q.  Whom  was  that  by  ?— A.  Dr.  Mott. 

Q.  What  part  of  your  salary  then  were  you  called  u])oh  to  ])ay  ? — A. 
He  asked  me  to  indorse  a  check  for  $98. 

Q.  Did  you  do  so  ? — A.  I  did  not. 

Q.  When  was  that! — A.  It  was  in  March,  I  think. 

Q.  What  year?— A.  Last  year,  1881. 

Q.  Was  there  any  canvass  on  hand  then? — A.  No,  sir;  I  think  not. 

Q.  What  did  he  say  were  the  necessities  then  for  the  money  ? — A.  He 
wrote  me  a  note  stating  that  he  was  starting  away  to  Washington  and 
he  was  badly  behind  in  campaign  funds,  and  very  much  "annoyed" — I 
think  was  the  word  he  used — generally.  He  re(iuested  the  check,  and 
asked  that  I  would  indorse  it  and  forward  it  to  Washington  City,  care 
of  the  Ebbitt  House. 

Q.  Which  you  declined  to  do  ? — A.  I  did  not  do  it. 

Q.  How  long  did  you  stay  in  the  service  after  that? — A.  That  was  in 
March.  I  had  not  worked  after  that,  except  a  month-s  work  surveying- 
fruit  distilleries  in  July,  I  think,  and  in  the  month  of  August. 

Q.  Did  you  get  anv  more  work  after  that  excei)t  surveying  ? — A.  That- 
is  all. 

Q.  Were  you  dismissed,  or  did  you  resign  ? — A.  Xever  dismissed  that 
I  know  of;  if  so,  never  notified  officially. 

Q.  You  are  put  down  here  in  the  "  List  of  subordinate  officers  dis- 
missed on  charges  in  the  sixth  district  North  Carolina  during  Collector 
Mott's  term  of  office  " — discharged  from  the  office  of  storekeeper  and 
ganger  December  2r),  1881,  by  Collector  Mott,  because  of  being  ineffi- 
cient and  inattentive. — A.  1  have  never  been  officially  notified  of  it. 
I  have  seen  that  since  I  came  up  here. 

(}.  Do  you  know  anything  about  stoiekee[)ers  dividing  their  pay  with 
<listillers  ? — A.  Nothing  more  than  rumor.     Etis  the  general  impression. 

(^.   It  is  the  general  impression  that  that  is  done? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

i).  Have  you  ever  heard  any  stoieke('i>er  or  distiller  say  that  they 
di\id<'d  * — A.   1  licanl  people  say  they  had  been  asked  to  do  it. 

().  r.y  the  distillers  .'—A.   Y<'s.  sir.' 

i}.  HaN'cyou  heard  any  distiller  say  he  would  have  it  done,  or  intended 
to  have  it  done? — A.  1  heard  them  say  that  if  they  did  not  do  it  they 
wouhl  not  run;  if  they  did  not  get  the  right  kind  of  storekeeper,  or 
som«'thingof  that  kind. 

i).  You  say  that  is  the  general  iin]n('ssion  in  your  country  that  it  is 
done? — A.  To  some  extent, 

().  Do  you  know  of  any  lettrr  written  from  the  collector's  office  ask- 
ing about  tln^  j)oliticsof  tlu^  young  men  in  the  service? — A.  1  do  not 
know  that  I  riMncnihci' about  tlic  letter.  Th<M)nIy  thing  that  I  have 
seen  of  that  kind  was  in  the  coUeefoi's  ofliee.  I  went  in  tluMe  one  day, 
:ind  Mr.  (;oil<'  iiad  sonujliiing  (tf  that  kind,  asking  the  i)arties  to  come  in 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  165 

Jiud  sign — to  put  down  what  their  politics  were.  I  believe  he  had  a  list 
of  all  the  names,  and  they  just  set  down  what  their  politics  were.  He 
asked  me  to  do  so.     I  saw  a  good  many  had  ])ut  their  names  there. 

Q.  Designating'  what  their  politics  were? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  1  want  to  know  whether  those  who  did  not  visit  the  office  at  that 
time  had  a  circular  addressed  to  them  or  not? — A.  I  do  not  remember 
that. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  young  men,  or  old  men  either,  having  beeu 
dismissed  on  account  of  their  politics? — A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not  know  that 
I  do,  of  my  own  knowledge. 

Q.  Do  3'ou  know  what  became  of  this  fund  that  was  raised  by  contrib- 
«itions  from  the  officers'? — A.  No,  sir;  not  able  to  answer  that  question. 
I  do  not  know. 

i).  How  much  did  you  ])ay  for  office  expenses? — A.  I  did  not  pay 
iuiytliiiig.     I  never  was  called  ujxm.     That  is  my  recollection. 

Q.  I  vvant  to  ask  you — and  you  can  answer  or  not,  as  you  see  proper — 
<lid  you  stamp  any  illicit  whisky  tor  anybody,  and  if  so,  for  whom,  and 
by  whose  orders? — A.  I  never  stamped  any,  to  my  knowledge. 

Q.  None  to  your  knowledge? — A.  If  I  did,  I  did  not  know  it. 

Q.  Did  you  stamp  some  that  afterwards  turned  out  to  be  blockade 
■whisky  ? — A.  I  do  not  remember  ever  having  seen  any  whisky  that  I 
improperly  stamped;  have  no  recollection  of  it. 

Cross-examination  by  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  It  appears  from  the  otticial  returns  of  the  department,  shown  to 
you  just  now,  by  an  amended  voucher  put  in,  that  your  services  ran 
from  May  20  to  June  30,  ltS73.  You  said  about  May  1;  it  appears  it 
it  was  May  20  to  June  30, 1873. — A.  In  those  months.  I  do  not  remember 
■exactly. 

Q.  At  $171  for  the  time? — A.  I  do  not  know  the  amount. 

Q.  You  say  you  received  but  $100  of  that  $171  ?— A.  One  hundred 
dollars. 

Q.  Was  not  that  $71  released  by  you  for  political  purposes  at  the 
time? — A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not  think  political  purposes  were  mentioned  at 
that  time. 

Q.  Was  it  not  <listinctly  understood  that  you  contributed,  instead  of 
the  whole  month's  salary,  $71,  and  no  more;  that  was  ten  years  ago? — 
A.  I  do  not  think  it  was  mentioned  at  all  at  that  time;  about  nine  years 
ago;  I  do  not  think  politics  were  mentioned  at  that  time. 

Q.  What  was  that  $71  contributed  for  ? — A.  He  remarked  that  some 
of  the  deputies  had  not  got  full  pay,  and  he  was  obliged  to  pay  them 
:Somethiug;  that  he  would  give  me  $100,  and  use  the  balance  in  that 
way.     That  was  my  understanding. 

Dr.  MoTT.  Did  you  not  tell  Clarke  and  me  that  you  were  willing  to 
let  that  money  go  that  way  in  the  campaign  of  1872 — the  Grant  cam- 
paign ? 

The  Witness.  This  account  was  in  1873. 

Dr.  MoTT.  At  any  rate  you  know  it  was  understood  there  between 
«s  all  the  time — all  the  way  up  from  that  date  until  three  years  ago — 
that  you  had  contributed  that  money  for  that  purpose. 

Tbe  Witness.  1  did  not  so  understand  it. 

Dr.  MoTT.  Did  you  not  state  to  Clarke  that  you  were  willing  to  let  it 
go  in  that  way  ? 

The  Witness.  I  think  not,  sir.  I  do  not  know  that  Clarke  and  I  ever 
3iad  any  conversation  about  it,  and  I  never  had  with  you  but  one  time. 


166  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  You  were  in  ofiflce  most  of  tlie  time  for  some  nine  years  ?^ — A.  I 
held  a  commission  most  of  the  time,  but  was  not  emph)ye(l  all  the  time. 

Q.  You  then  must  have  drawn,  altogether,  while  employed,  some  seven 
or  eight  thousand  dollars  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  I  do  not  think  1  drew  that 
amount. 

Q.  How  much  do  you  think  you  got  ? — A.  I  suppose  in  all  T  was  em- 
ployed, 1  reckon,  live  years  out  of  the  nine. 

Q.  That  would  be  some  $<i,00()  ? — A.  Five  thousand  dollars  would 
cover  the  amount. 

Q.  How  much  did  you  ever  contribute  during  that  time  for  party  pur- 
poses ? — A.  Not  very  much.     I  do  not  remember.     I  expect  $50. 

Q.  You  do  not  think  your  contributions  reached  $50? — xV.  I  think  it 
did  not  exceed  that;  perhaps  it  did  not  reach  it. 

Q.  You  do  not  think  your  contributions  for  political  purposes  for  the 
whole  nine  jears  exceeded  that,  or  even  reached  it  ? — A.  No,  sir.  I  do- 
not  think  it  did.  I  spent  a  little  money  in  my  own  county,  but  I  did 
that  of  my  own  will. 

Q.  Were  you  not  a  Eepublican  ?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Holding  office  as  a  Ke])ublican"? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  not  others  who  held  office  as  you  did  contribute  much  more 
largely  than  that? — A.  I  think  so.     Yes,  sir,  I  think  they  did. 

Q.  Did  anybody  contribute  so  little  as  you  did  ? — A.  I  cannot  answer 
that. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anybody  who  contributed  so  little  to  party  pur- 
poses?— A.  I  do  not  know. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  any  one  who  did  so  little  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  how 
they  all  contributed ;  I  know  liow  some  contributed,  for  they  told  me. 

Q.  Leaving  out  the  $71  spoken  of  just  now,  and  supposing  you  did 
not  contribute  that,  do  you  know  of  any  man  in  the  service  who  contrib- 
uted so  little  as  you  to  party  purposes? — A.  I  cannot  answer  that — I  do 
not  know. 

Q.  Suppose  to  that  $50  you  add  $71,  which  then  makes  $121  for  nine 
years,  would  you  consider  that  an  excessive  contribution  to  party  pur- 
poses, according  to  the  usages  of  ottice-holders  ? — A.  No,  sir,  I  would 
not  consider  it  excessive. 

Q.  You  paid  nothing  for  the  office  expenses  ? — A.  No,  sir;  I  think  not.. 
My  recollection  is  1  did  not.  I  do  not  think  I  was  ever  called  ui)on  to 
pay  anything. 

Q.  To  whom  did  you  contribute  this  amount  less  than  $50,  you  si)eak 
of? — A.  1  never  ])aid  $50  at  any  one  time,  but  all  along,  here  and  there 
a  little,  and  some  little  incidental  expenses,  about  a  dozen  times. 

Q.  To  whom  did  you  pay  any  of  it? — A.  To  Mr.  Clarke  several  times^ 
there  in  the  office — live  and  ten  dollars,  along  about  the  (Irantcam- 
]>aign. 

Q.  Tlicn  1  understand  you  to  say  that  in  nine  years'  service,  for  wliicli 

you  re(;eived  not  less  than  $5,000  as  a  Kepublican  officer A.  I  just 

mak(!  tliat  as  a  rough  guess. 

(i.  Not  less  fhan  fhat — you  never  contributed  for  ])arfN  purposes  ex- 
ceeding $50  ill!  told  ?— A.  "l  do  not  think  I  did. 

i-i.  And  fhat  if  the  $71  in  (piesfion  had  been  added  to  that  $50,  it 
would  nof,  in  your  judgnu'ut,  haxc  l)e<Mi  a  fair  coiit  i  it)ution  l)y  yourself,, 
at  fhat  time,  ? — A.  I  would  not  eall  that  excessive. 

(^.  Would  you,  fhen,  liaxc  been  up  to  what  the  others  contributed 
g<'iM'ially,  even  if  you  had  |»aid  the  $71  1 — A.  I  do  nof  know  anything 
:il)((Uf    wliiit    tlie,\   eontriltuted    heretofore;    1    know  what  they  did   (U)U- 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  167 

tribute  in  tlie  last  cainpaij^n — iu  the  other  campaign  previous  to  this, 
the  Grant  cani})aign, 

Q.  You  heard  the  matter  talked  about,  and  generally  understood  how- 
much  others  contributed,  did  you  not? — A.  Ido  not  remember  about  tln^ 
other  campaign.  I  heard  about  this  last  one;  what  the^'  contributed  iu 
the  campaign  before,  I  do  not  remember. 

Q.  Your  recollection,  then,  embracing  this  campaign  business  nine; 
years  ago,  is  very  indeftnite  ? — A.  1  do  not  remember  what  they  con- 
tributed at  that  time. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  whether  you  contributed  anything  in  that  yeart 
— A.  I  think,  some  small  amount.  This  last  campaign  I  never  contrib- 
uted anything,  as  I  was  not  employed. 

Q.  I  understood  you  were  employed  in  the  last  campaign! — A.  I 
was  not  employed. 

Q.  You  know  better  what  others  contributed  in  the  last  campaign 
than  in 'the  campaign  when  you  were  employed? — A.  Yes,  sir;  Ire- 
member  what  they  told  me.  I  do  not  remember  what  they  did  con- 
tribute eight  years  ago. 

Q.  Then,  you  know  more  about  what  office-holders  have  contributed 
when  you  were  not  in  office  than  when  you  were  iu  office? — A.  I  was^ 
in  office,  but  not  employed. 

Q.  [  understood  you  to  say  that  the  deputies  were  not  paid  a  uniform 
amount;  that  some  were  paid  more  than  others. — A.  I  think  that  was 
the  rule.  I  was  only  a  special  deputy,  not  a  regular  deputy.  I  think 
the  regular  deputies  were  paid  the  same. 

Q.  Was  there  any  authority  to  emploj^  special  deputies?— A.  Any 
authority  ? 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  I  suppose  so.     The  collector  has  authority. 

Q.  It  appears  from  the  official  records  on  file  in  this  examination  that 
a  regular  allowance  was  made  for  three  deputies,  from  June  30,  1872,  to 
June  o(»,  1873,  and  that  was  changed  on  the  20tli  of  May  to  a  regular 
allowance  for  four  deputies;  was  there  any  authority  for  employing' 
si)ecial  deputies  outside  of  that? — A.  I  do  not  know,  sir. 

Q.  It  <loes  not  appear  from  the  official  records  on  tile  that  there  was 
any  aUowance  made  for  any  such  purpose. — A.  I  do  not  know  anything 
about  that. 

Q.  You  say  you  were  a  special  deputy,  and  paid  as  such? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  paid  as  such. 

Q.  Can  you  give  me  the  name  of  any  individual  deputy  that  was  paid 
more  than  any  other  deputy? — A.  Do  you  mean  special  deputies? 

Q.  Special  deputies.  It  is  an  entirely  new  thing  tome.  I  never  heard 
of  that,  as  the  law  did  not  permit  it. — A.  Look  over  the  schedule.  You 
will  find  them  set  down  at  different  prices. 

Q.  For  the  same  time? — A.  For  the  same  time.  The  schedule  so 
shows  it. 

Q.  You  spoke  of  being  asked  your  i)olitics  at  the  office  in  Statesvillef — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  that  others,  you  think,  were  asked  their  politics  also? — A.  I 
think  so.     Mr.  Coite  had  the  list  there  on  his  desk. 

Q.  Did  Dr.  Mott  have  some  Democrats  employed  there,  as  well  as  Re- 
publicans?— A.  I  think  so. 

Q.  ]3o  you  mean  to  inform  me  that  Dr.  Mott  appointed  men  without 
knowing  their  politics? — A.  I  suppose  he  knew  their  politics. 

Q.  Why  inquire,  then  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  why. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  that  ^Ir.  Cowles  nmde  a  very  great  effort,  some- 


1G8  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    LN 

time  ago,  to  have  Dr.  Mott  removed  from  his  office? — A.  I  understood 
so;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  vou  take  part  with  Mr.  Cowles  in  that  attack  upon  Dr.  Mott 
to  remove  him? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  I  took  any  special  part,  except 
.signing"  a  petition  for  Mr.  Cowles. 

Q.  Is  tliatall  you  signed  for  him  ? — A.  That  is  all  I  signed,  I  l)elieve, 
:a  petition  for  him,  except  an  affidavit  I  made. 

Q.  Were  you  not  an  officer  at  the  time  you  signed  the  petition  for 
Cowles? — A.  Yes,  sir,  I  suppose  1  held  a  commission. 

Q„  Were  you  not  in  office  at  the  time  you  signed  that  affidavit? — A. 
Tes,  sir;  I  think  so. 

Q.  You  say  you  were  removed  from  office,  and  did  not  resign? — A.  If 
1  was  removed,  I  have  not  been  officially  notified  of  it. 

Q.  Do  you  think  it  unreasonable,  when  you  were  taking  part  with, 
and  signing  a  petition  and  affidavit  for  Cowles,  that  you  should  be  re- 
moved by  the  incumbent.  Dr.  Mott? — A.  I  think  he  did  exactly  right; 
just  what  I  expected  him  to  do. 

Q,  You  were  assuming  an  attitude  of  defiance  to  the  collector,  and 
^expected  him  to  remove  you  for  signing  this,  and  you  defied  him  ? — A. 
INo,  sir;  I  expected  him  to  remove  me  as  soon  as  he  had  seen  that;  as 
.•soon  as  he  had  found  out  that  I  had  signed  a  petition  for  Cowles. 

Mr.  Pool. Mr.  Chairman,  in  this  executive  document,  Xo.  83,  to  which 
irefercnce  has  been  made  by  other  witnesses,  I  find  an  affidavit  of  Mr. 
Mcintosh,  whicli  I  desire  to  be  inserted  here  (marked  Exhibit  27)  : 

Jffidnvit  of  J.   T.   Mcliifosh. 

Statksville,  N.  C,  Oct.  11  1881. 
^'t:sxkk^'  Dist.  N.  C.  Ji'dicial, 

6//(  Int.  Btv.  Dist.  : 

J.  T-  Mcintosh,  U.  S.  ganger  and  storekeeper,  resident  of  Taylorsville,  Alexander 
Co.,  in -said  dist.,  deposes  and  says  that  on  or  abont  the  month  of  Mareli,  1881,  he  re- 
«ceiv«d  a  letter  from  .J.  J.  Mott,  colkn-torof  int.  revenne  of  the  6tli  dist.  N.  C,  contain- 
ing a  check  dne  him,  the  said  .L  T.  Mcintosh,  V.  S.  ganger  and  st'k'r  aforesaid,  for 
tserN^ioes  rendered  as  snch  at  the  distillery  of  Little  &  Iho.  for  the  month  of  February, 
A.  D-  1881,  of  said  county,  district  aforesaid,  of  the  value  of  ninety  eight  Y(p,r  dolls. 
(^[$98.00),  which  said  check  and  amount  thereof  was  already  due  deponent  for  actual 
services  rendered.  The  said  collector  of  int.  rev.,  .1.  .J.  Mott,  however,  instructed  him 
TtoHxlorse  the  said  check  and  remit  to  him  at  Washington,  D.  C,  care  of  Ebbitt  Mouse, 
asSie  waslehiud  on  cami)agin  fund  of  1881,  and  had  to  settle  at  that  time  on  or  about 
4beMX»nth  of  March,  1881,  with  parties  to  whom  he  was  indebted  for  advances.  De- 
gwjK'ut  says  further  that  he  answered  the  said  J.  ,J.  Mott,  collector  as  aforesaid,  that 
flbe  <vu]>p<)sed  the  cami)aign  debt  had  been  arranged  in  full,  and  at  that  time  he  did  not 
tfeclahle  to  contribute  the  amount  asked  for;  but,  if  the  fuud  had  not  been  arranged 
Ithat  lif  was  willing  to  contril)ute  whatever  amount  was  right.  At  this  time  the  depo- 
mcnttsays  the  said  J.  .1.  Mott,  collector  as  afon'said,  was  due  liiin,  the  said  .1.  T.  Mcln- 
*08li,  J'".  S.  st'k'r  and  g'r,  one  hundred  and  four  ,",,",,  dollars  for  services  reuderd  as  such 
oSk-er  at  the  distillery  of  Price  iV  Uro.,  of  Alexander  Co.,  in  said  district,  for  the 
axKnitJi  of  June,  A.  D.  18H(),  just  nine  mouths  ])r('\i(Mis. 

l<iK)wingthat  theapi)roi)i'iations  forthe  fiscal  year  A.  I).  1880expiredon  .Tune  thelWth 
of  naid  year,  I  presumed  tlie  cause  of  non-remittance  wasdue  to  the  complete  ex])endi- 
lun-ofsaid  api>ropriatiou  of  said  year,  and  that  I  had  to  wait  for  a  deficieiu'y  bill  to 
)l)epaKs<'d  by  CougrrsH  for  several  months(i)robably  :i  or  4).     He  did  communic!ite  with 

«aul  oflice  <".n  thr  subje<-t  of  said  check,  on  orabout  the of ,  A.  D.  1^81.    He. 

the  H.-iid  dcjioneiit,  .).  T.  Mcintosh,  wrote  a  letter  to  W.  .1.  Coite,  cliief  clerk  of  J.  J. 
Alott,  <<tllectMr  aforesaid,  asking  for  a.  check  to  be  renuuitted  for  services  rendered  as 

aj.  fS.Mt'k'r  an<lg'r  forthe nth  of.Inue,  A.  D.  1H^'(),  jiforesaid.    On.Tun(<  27, 1881, 

Die  deponent  received  net  amount  omiliundred  iiud  four  ,",,",,  dolls,  by  registered 

IfttN-r  in  cnrrency.  Tlie  de])onen<  knows  of  his  ]>ersonal  knowledge  that  when  a 
•voucher  on  107^  is  tilled  and  oftiier  is  to  be  ))aid,  a,  check  is  inadi^  out  ))ayabhi  at  the 
liabigh  \:it'l  I'.imk  at  Ivaleigh,  \.  (.'.  The  deponent  knows  that  it  is  the  usual  CUH- 
i*>m  in  sai<l  oltiic  to  pay  said  oflicers  always  l»y  check  on  said  liauk,  and  is  contident 
tfJiat  Haiil  Minoiint  wmm  niadi- |)ayable  to  liim  in  saiil  manner ;  that  he  never  indorsed 


THE    SIXTH    DLSTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  169 

auy  Kuch  check,  and  if  the  check  is  produced  now  on  file  in  said  Raleigh  Nat'l  Bank 
ln>  will  swear  that  the  signatnre  is  not  his,  anil  that  he  did  not  authorize  or  give  a 
power  of  attorney  to  anv  pei'son  whutsoever  to  endorse  saiil  check. 

J.  T.  Mcintosh. 

Snliscribed  to  and  sworn  hefoie  nie  this  11  dav  of  Oct.,  A.  D.  1881. 

[L.  s.]  '  A.  D.  COWLES, 

i>.   C,   U.  S.   Court,  Jf'cst.   Dist.  of  N.   Carolina. 

I  find  ill  the  same  executive  document  an  oflicia!  letti'V  of  Dr.  Mott's 
in  regard  to  and  in  explanation  of  that  afhdavit  of  ."\I  v.  .Mclnto.sli,  wliich  I 
also  desire  to  insert. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  think  ])r.  iVFott's  afhdavit  ought  to  go  in 
when  he  is  here  and  can  testify  himself  as  to  the  nuitter  ? 

.Mr.  Pool.  If  we  take  some  extracts  from  this  executive  document,  we 
liave  a  right  to  take  any  other. 

The  Chairman.  Suppose  he  was  on  the  stand,  would  you  Avant  it  in 
then  ? 

Mr.  Pool.  Yes,  sir,  even  then. 

(Marked  Exhibit  28.) 

Etply  to  (iffidarit  of  J.   T.  Mcintosh. 

Collector's  Offick,  (ixii  Dlst.,  N.  C, 

Stalcsrillc,  Jan.  Kdth,  1882. 

Hon.  Gkkex  B.  Raim, 

Com'r  Inter,  liertnuc,   Washinr/ton,  D.  C.  : 

Sir:  I  have  the  honor  to  acknowledge  the  receipt  of  a  copy  of  an  affidavit  of  J.  T. 
Mcintosh,  late  storekeeper  &  ganger  in  this  district. 

It  seems  hardly  necessary  to  make  a  reply  to  his  statements.  He  admits  receiving 
every  dollar  due  liim,  bnt  complains  that  he  was  requested  to  aid  the  Re[»nblican  com- 
mittee, which  he  declined  to  do,  an<l  that  he  received  a  jiortion  of  his  salary  in  cash 
instead  of  a  draft.  Mcintosh  would  have  it  apitcar  that  his  i)ay  for  June,  1880,  was 
withheld.  It  was  not  rec'd  at  this  office  till  April,  1881,  after  passage  of  a  deficiency 
bill.  A  number  of  the  officers,  owing  to  the  long  delay,  had  given  orders  to  merchants 
and  others  for  their  pay.  I  had  instructed  the  cashier  to  retain  tliese  checks  until 
personal  application  or  oider  was  made  by  each  officer  for  his  pay.  This  was  done  to 
protect  any  who  had  made  advances  to  them.  When  Mcintosh  did  a]>ply,  according 
to  affidavit  of  !Mr.  Coite,  he  ref[uested  the  cash,  and  the  check  was  juade  payable  to 
bearer,  the  cash  rec'd  for  it,  and  st^nt  to  him  in  this  way  for  his  accommodation. 

This  is  frcfinently  done  in  the  office  (checks  made  payable  to  bearer  and  the  money 
remitted  instead)  for  acconnuodation  of  those  who  might  find  difficulty  in  getting 
their  drafts  cashed  where  thej-  reside. 
Verv  respectfullv, 

JNO.  J.  MOTT, 

Collector. 


I  Slip  cut  from  tlits  Guide  ol'  April  1,  1881.] 

The  long-delayed  pay  for  June,  1880,  services,  due  storekeei)er8  and  gangers,  will  be 
forwarded  to  the  parties  entitled  within  the  next  ten  days. 

B. 

United  States  Internal  Revenue, 
Collector's  Office,  6  District,  North  Carolina, 

StatesvUle,  June  21st,  1881. 
J.  T.  McIntosh,  Esq., 

S.  and  G.,  Taylorsville,  N.  C.  : 
Sir  :  Your  June,  1880,  pay  has  been  in  this  office  awaiting  your  order.     Not  having 
called  for  it,  a  S.  &  G.  is  presumed  to  have  disposed  of  the  claim,  &  the  cash  is  held 
until  presentation  by  the  holder. 


170  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

I  enclose  your  salary  for  Jime,  1880,  as  P.  and  G.  as  per  act.  rendered  &,  allowed, 
bring  one  hundred  &  four  dollars  (¥104).     Please  acknowledge  receipt. 
Eespectfnllv, 

.1.  J.  MOTT, 

CoU'i:, 
Per  C. 
C. 
To  whom  it  may  concern  : 

I  have  examined  an  affidavit  (copy)  as  made  by  J.  T.  Mcintosh,  late  stkr.  &  ganger 
in  the  6tli  dist.  No.  Ca.;  and  in  the  matter  of  the  payment  to  him  of  the  amount  due 
him  for  services  during  .June,  1880,  am  able  to  make  the  following  statement : 

For  want  of  appropriation,  the  payment  of  all  ^^.'sof  stkr.  &  gangers  for  June,  1880^ 
were  delayed.  The  money  therefor  was  not  received  at  this  office,  and  deposited  to 
credit  of  Coll'r's  D.  A.  until  March  28,  '81.  The  checks  on  it  were  dated  Mar.  30,  '81. 
but  were  not  completed  (tilled  out,  signed,  &,c.)  until  about  April  10,  '81. 

The  delay  in  the  payment  of  these  accounts  had  tended  in  many  instances  to  work 
hardship  to  the  officers  to  whom  it  was  due,  and  they  (needing  their  money)  had  dis- 
counted or  cashed  the  claims,  and  numbers  of  the  orders  were  tiled  in  this  office. 

When  the  cash  had  been  received  from  Washington  a  notice  (see  appended  paper 
marked  A)  was  inserted  in  the  "  Guide,"  an  official  paper  published  monthly  from  this, 
office  and  sent  to  every  officer  in  the  district. 

It  was  decided  imprudent,  in  view  of  many  orders,  to  remit  to  each  S.  &  gr.  with- 
out having  first  heard  from  him  that  there  was  no  lien  upon  the  amount  originally  due 
him.  Though  this  course  was  strictly  adhered  to,  the  records  show  that  within  a  few 
days  of  the  receipt  of  the  money  and  of  the  notice  in  the  "Guide,"  but  few  of  the 
amounts  due  (checks)  remained  on  hand  ;  it  appears  that  Mcintosh's  was  one ;  for  on 
or  about  June  5,  '81,  I  received  from  him  a  letter — addressed  to  me  as  dep'y  coll'r — 
requesting  me  to  scud  him  his  cash  for  June,  '80.  To  oblige  him,  as  I  then  thought,  I 
obtained  "cash"  for  his  check,  and  after  ascertaining  from  him  that  he  had  no  orders- 
"out"  on  that  pay,  I  sent  him  the  money  in  a  reyisiered  letter,  as  he  had  requested,  i 
enclose  a  copy  of  said  letter,  taken  from  the  official  copy-book  in  this  office,  wherein 
I  at  the  time  copied  it  (B).  I  may  add  that  I  have  never  received  from  Mr.  Mcintosh 
any  acknowledgment  of  the  receipt  of  the  amount  by  him. 

WM.  J.  COITE, 

Deputy  CoIVr. 

Signed  and  sworn  to  before  me  this  16th  day  of  Januarv,  A.  D,  1882. 

J.  FRANK  DAVIS, 


B. 

Eeyistry  receipt. 


Deputy  Collector. 


Post-office  at  Statesville,  N.  C.  Registered  letter  No.  883.  Rec'd  June  21,  1881,  of 
J.  J.  Mott,  addressed  to  J.  T.  Mcintosh,  Taylorsville,  N.  C. 

L.  A.  SHARPE,  P.  M. 

Q.  You  have  your  mind  clearly  upon  the  campaign  of  1872.  You  rec 
ollect  it — the  Grant  campaign  I  mean! — A.  I  remember  that  he  ran  in 
1872. 

Q.  Was  it  not  a  very  hot  and  earnest  campaign  in  Xorth  Carolina  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  It  was  at  tlie  time  Todd  11.  Caldwell  ran  for  governor  ? — A.  1  do 
not  remember ;  1  8n])pose  it  \vas  about  that  time. 

il.  Well,  in  that  campaign,  when  Mr.  Caldwell  was  running,  was  it 
not  a  hot  ciiiii])aign  and  earnestly  contested  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  very  hot. 

ii.  Especially  .so  in  this  sixth  district  where  Caldwell  lived? — A.  Pol- 
itics ran  pretty  high. 

i}.  Was  there  not  a  great  deal  of  work  done  by  both  i)()litical  parties 
at  that  time? — A.  1  think  there  was. 

il.  Were  not  the  revenue  otiicers  and  other  officers  of  the  United 
States,  esjiecially  postmasters,  active  in  that  cam])aign '? — A.  1  suppose 
they  were,  but  not  moi-e,  so  1  think,  than  any  others. 

(^.  IIav<'  yon  any  reeollection  of  having  contribute*!  any  amount  dur- 
ing the  year  J.S7^;  while  the  cani]>aign  was  going  on  ? — A.  I  do  not  re- 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  171 

member;  all  tlio  Avoik  I  did  in  1872  was  under  Colonel  Henderson, 
assessor.  I  did  not  do  any  work  under  Dr.  Mott  in  1872.  I  only  worked 
two  months  under  Colonel  Henderson. 

Q.  The  assessors  were  all  broken  up  in  May,  1873,  following  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  then  y<m  came  in  under  Dr.  Mott  as  an  officer  f — A.  Yes,  sir; 
came  in  about  that  time. 

Q.  Do  you  not  recollect  that  there  was  considerable  of  a  deficiency 
in  the  campaign  expenses,  because  some  officers  would  not  contribute 
at  all  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  that. 

Q.  Were  you  informed  to  that  effect  by  Mr.  Clarke  ?— A.  Kot  that  I 
remember. 

Q.  Do  you  not  recollect  that  Clarke  told  you  that  there  was  a  defi- 
ciency, and  you  ought  to  come  forward  and  contribute  your  proportion- 
ate share,  not  for  the  campaign,  but  to  su])ply  the  deficiency  then  exist- 
ing?— A.  He  may  have  told  me  so,  but  I  liave  no  recollection  of  it. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  that  this  $71  was  to  make  up  your  share  of  the 
deficiency  in  the  preceding  campaign! — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  not  recollect  that? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  do  not  recollect  that  that  was  understood  between  you  and 
Clarke? — A.  No,  sir;  I  have  no  recollection  of  ever  having  any  talk 
with  Clarke  about  it  whatever. 

Q.  Colonel  Henderson  was  a  very  hard,  earnest  w^orker  in  the  cam- 
paign, was  he  not  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  did  not  pay  anything  to  him  ? — A.  No,  sir;  I  did  not. 

Q.  And  on  May  20,  when  he  went  out,  and  you  came  in  under  the  col- 
lector, do  you  recollect  whether  Mr.  Henderson  rendered  to  the  collector 
an  account  of  the  deficiency  amongst  the  officers?— A.  I  do  not  recol- 
lect that. 

Q.  Were  you  not  assigned  to  work  in  your  own  county  generally 
when  anything  was  going  on  there  ? — A.  Not  all  the  time.  I  did  there 
a  little  storekeeping. 

Q.  Whenever  there  was  any  work  in  your  county,  did  you  not  get  it 
all  to  do? — A.  Not  always. 

Q.  Did  you  not  consider  that  to  some  extent  as  a  favor  to  you  ? — A.. 
Yes,  sir ;  l3ecause  I  could  not  leave  my  own  county  well,  situated  as  I 
was. 

Q.  Did  you  request  Dr.  Mott,  some  time  previous  to  signing  this  affi- 
davit for  Cowles  and  his  petition,  to  make  you  a  deputy  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  he  do  it  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  take  offense  at  it? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  I  did. 

Q.  Did  you  not  express  to  Dr.  Mott  that  you  were  offended  because 
he  had  not  given  you  a  deputy's  place  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  I  do  not  think  I 
did.  I  remarked  to  him  one  day,  when  talking  about  the  matter,  that 
I  had  been  looking  forward  to  that  place  and  expecting  it,  or  something- 
of  that  sort.  He  said  he  had  thought  something  about  it.  We  had 
some  such  talk.  I  think  the  remark  he  made  about  it  was,  "  I  cannot  do 
it;  I  cannot  dismiss  Smith  and  retain  you."  I  think  that  was  about  all 
he  said. 

Q.  You  thought  you  ought  to  have  had  it,  because  you  had  been  in 
the  service  so  long? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  I  had  any  more  claim  on  it 
than  any  one  else — than  Smith  had. 

Q.  Did  you  not  express  to  Dr.  Mott  that  you  were  offended  because 
he  had  not  given  you  that  place? — A.  I  do  not  think  I  did. 


172  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Cross-examination  of  W.  M.  Walker. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  What  time  were  you  deputy  under  Collector  Mott  ? — A.  My  first 
■commissiou  was — I  was  appointed  the  1st  of  March,  1872. 

Q.  Did  you  continue  during  the  year  1872? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  All  through? — A.  As  I  told  you,  my  commission  never  was  taken 
away.  It  has  never  been  revoked  yet.  I  have  worn  out  a  half  a  dozen. 
I  have  to  get  a  new  one  every  once  in  a  while. 

Q.  Did  you  act  as  such  all  through  the  year  1872,  and  draw  pay  for 
it? — A.  No,  sir;  I  did  not  draw  pay  for  it.  I  did  not  know  how  our 
accounts  were  cut  down.  I  did  not  get  any  payment  for  everything 
charged,  though  I  acte<l  as  a  [)ublic  officer  all  the  time. 

Q.  Then  right  on  through  1873  you  continued  to  be  deputy  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  And  drew  jiay  for  it  as  your  vouchers  here  show ;  that  is  true  is 
it? — A.  I  received  pay  for  it,  but  not  as  my  vouchers  here  show. 

Q.  But  for  a  time  I  understand  the  pay  was  cut  down  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Here  is  a  voucher  from  IMarch  1,  1872,  to  March  31,  on  which 
you  drew  $100  ;  that  is  correct  1  suppose  for  the  year  1872;  then  the 
next  voucher  is  for  a  period  commencing  the  31st  of  December,  1872, 
and  ending  March  31,  1873,  for  which  you  drf  w  -$300 ;  that  is  correct,  is 
it  ? — A.  That  is  the  voucher  I  sent  off.  I  did  not  receive  that  amount 
for  that  month,  I  do  not  think. 

Q.  Y'ou  generally  received  a  hundred  dollars  a  month  ? — A.  My  vouch- 
ers were  cut  down;  I  don't  know  exactly  at  what  rate  they  did  cut  them. 
That  is  not  the  first  voucher,  I  do  not  think. 

Q.  That  is  all  the  one  here? — A.  I  had  four  or  five. 

Q.  That  is  all  the  one  of  that  i>eriod  that  is  here;  then  there  is  one  for 
May  and  June,  1873,  two  months — $250 — when  they  increased  the  rate 
to  a  hundred  and  twenty-five  dollars  a  month,  service  described  to  have 
been  ren<lered  at  Statesville,  Eredell  County,  and  Cabarrus  County,  look- 
ing after  those  liable  to  special  taxes ;  also  illicit  distilling  an<l  the  manu- 
facture and  sale  of  tobacco.  That  is  correct,  is  it? — A.  I  don't  under- 
stand you.  Those  are  the  vouchers  I  signed  and  sent  oft'  in  that  way. 
If  that  is  what  you  mean  by  being  correct,  I  performed  the  duty  and 
sent  tliem  in  in  that  way. 

Q.  And  you  mean  you  did  not  get  the  full  amount  of  pay  as  stated 
down  here? — A.  No,  sir;  I  did  not. 

Q.  How  mu(!h  did  you  get,  taking  the  vouchers  in  all  for  that  time? 
—A.  I  got  $()99.83. 

(^.  For  what  term? — A.  From  the  1st  of  September  until  the  

where  my  vouchers  started  from. 

(}.  They  start  t'unii  the  first  of  October,  1872,  and  run  to  the  30th  of 
June,  1873. 

Mr.  Pool.  They  run  to  May  20. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

().  You  say  that  for  these  vouchers  you  received A.  $090.83. 

C^.   Was  that  all  you  received? — A.  Yes,  sii'. 

(.}.  Let  us  ))(*  (H'.rtain  that  there  is  no  misunderstanding  about  it;  here 
is  from  October  21  to  December  31,  $235  (handing  Exhibit  13  to  wit- 
jKiSs);  you  did  not  receive  all  that? — A.  The  amounts  reported  will 
.show  you  what  I  r(M;eived. 

Q.  .lust  turn  to  tin;  abstract  there  and  see  what  you  did  receive. — 
A.  ( Ivxamining).    $235. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  173^^ 

Q.  You  received  that? — A.  Yes,  sir, 

Q.  Did  you  receive  that  money  or  not? — A.  1  did — $235 — from  Oc- 
tober 21  to  December  31. 

Q.  You  say  you  got  tliat  money? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Now,  we  will  take  them  in  their  order,  aud  please  state  what  you 
did  get  on  each  oue;  here's  th(Miext — from  l)eceml)er  31, 1872,  to  March 
31,  1873 — $300;  how  much  did  you  receive  of  that? — A.  I  received 
$300. 

Q.  Then  we  will  taUe  the  uext  oue — April  1,  1873,  and  ending  May  20^ 
1873— $164.83;  how  uiuch  of  that  did  you  j;et?— A.  $104.83. 

Q.  You  j»ot  that  much? — A.   Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  Then  from  May  1,  1873,  to  June  30,  1873— two  months— $250;. 
how  much  of  that  did  you  receive? — A.  I  did  not  get  any  of  that. 

Q.  You  did  not  get  any  of  that? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Why  did  you  not  get  it? — A.  The  department  would  not  allow  it 
to  me;  that  is  my  understanding  of  it? 

Q.  I  see  here  that  you  put  in  a  voucher  from  April  1,  1873,  to  May 
20,  1873,  for  $104?— xV.  And  83  cents. 

Q.  And  then  on  the  next  I  see  you  file  vour  voucher  from  May  1,. 
1873,  to  June  30,  1873?— A.  Yes,  s'ir. 

Q.  Then  that  covers  May  twice? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  could  you  do  that? — A.  It  was  a  mistake  of  Clarke's;  that 
is  the  reason,  I  think,  I  got  knocked  out  of  some  pay. 

Q.  Were  you  sworn  to  these  vouchers? — A.  I  was,  sir. 

Q.  Mr.  Clarke's  name  is  attached  to  it  as  being  sworn  to  befoie  him 
on  the  10th  day  of  July.  Mr.  Clarke  said  in  his  testimony  that  none  of 
the  vouchers  were  sworn  to;  that  they  did  not  swear  each  other  in  the 
office,  but  you  say  you  were  sworn  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Dr.  MoTT.  Sworn  by  Mr.  Clarke? 

The  Witness.  Yes,  sir. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  This  is  your  handwriting  (indicating)  and  Clarke's  thereto  ? — A, 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  This  one  from  October  21  to  December  31, 1872,  inclusive,  for  $235. 
seems  to  be  sworn  to  on  the  25th  of  August,  1874? — A.  Yes,  sir, 

Q.  How  did  it  happen  that  you  let  money  due  you  stand  so  long  un- 
paid ? — A.  Well,  sir,  I  could  not  help  myself.  My  vouchers  were  mis- 
placed in  some  way  by  Mr,  Clarke,  or  he  did  not  send  them  for  me. 

Q.  The  money  due  you  for  April  and  May,  1873,  the  year  foUowing,^ 
you  did  get,  you  say  ? — A.  I  got  it  all. 

Q.  How  did  it  occur  that  you  collected  or  received  money  due  you 
later,  and  not  the  money  due  you  under  the  old  date? — A.  I  collected 
it  all  as  it  come. 

Q.  This  amount  is  only  sworn  to  on  the  25th  of  August,  1874  ? — A. 
That  is  the  amended — they  had  it  waiting  for  some  time.  1  did  not 
know  where  my  money  was  ;  I  did  not  know  w  hat  was  the  matter.  My 
vouchers  went  in,  and  I  had  to  make  new  vouchers. 

Q.  Did  you  have  to  make  another  voucher  besides  this  one  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  What  became  of  it  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  ;  that  is  the  reason  I  was 
knocked  out  of  my  money. 

Q.  The  department  does  not  furnish  any  other  to  the  committee  ? — 
A.  The  department  denied  ever  getting  it. 

Q.  That  is  the  reason  you  made  out  this  voucher  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


174  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  This  voucher  was  sworn  to  before  a  man  by  tlie  name  of  John  B. 
Eicks,  clerk  ? — A.  He  is  a  clerk  in  Taylorville. 

Q.  North  Carolina? — A.  No,  sir;  of  Illinois. 

Q.  Were  you  out  there  at  that  time  ? — A.  I  was.  I  guess  the  seal  is 
on  there — "Christian  County,  Illinois." 

Q.  You  were  out  there  when  this  voucher  was  made,  1874! — A.  Yes, 
sir;  I  had  gone  to  Illinois,  and  left  Clarke  as  a  sort  of  collector  for  me. 
He  informed  me  that  he  had  misplaced  my  vouchers,  or  something  of 
that  sort,  and  avsked  me  to  send  in  new  ones. 

Q.  And  this  voucher  for  $250  for  May  and  June,  1873,  you  never  got 
the  money  on  at  all  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  I  did  not  get  any. 

Q.  The  others,  I  believe,  you  say  you  received  ;  you  made  out  original 
vouchers,  as  I  understand,  for  these  cases  where  you  failed  to  get  them 
paid,  because  the  vouchers  were  never  received  by  the  department,  and 
you  left  them  with  Clarke  ? — A.  That  is  my  recollection.  Clarke  made 
them  out  for  me.  Clarke  made  out  all  of  my  accounts.  We  did  not 
know  how  to  make  out  our  accounts.  I  used  to  help  him  in  the  office 
in  any  way  I  could,  and  so  would  get  him  to  help  me.  That  is  the  rea- 
son my  accounts  were  made  out  in  his  handwriting. 

Q.  Here  are  vouchers  filed  regularly,  covering  every  day  from  the  21st 
of  October  to  the  30th  of  June,  and  doubling  on  20  days  of  May,  the 
vouchers  covering  that  period  twice? — A.  Yes,  sir;  vouchers  covering 
that  did  not  receive. 

Q.  Now,  were  you  not  a  ganger  receiving  full  and  regular  pay  at  the 
same  time  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  do  you  explain  that ;  could  you  hold  the  two  offices  at  once? — 
A.  I  was  so  informed  I  could. 

Q.  Who  informed  you  you  could  hold  two  offices  at  once  and  draw 
pay  at  the  same  time  ? — A.  Mr.  Crane,  the  tirst  agent  that  ever  came  to 
North  Carolina ;  and  also  heard  Colonel  Henderson  say  it  Avas  gene- 
rally done  in  the  district-under  the  Wiley  administration. 

Q,  Did  you  ever  see  that  that  was  the  law? — A.  No,  sir;  I  did  not 
know  that  I  noticed  the  law. 

Q,  1  on  just  took  what  they  told  you  ? — A.  I  took  what  they  told  me, 
and  all  they  would  give  me. 

Q.  I  see  for  the  month  of  September,  1872,  you  had  a  $130.12  as  a 
ganger;  that  is  correct,  is  it  (handing  vouchers  to  him)? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  for  the  month  of  October,  1872,  you  drew  $16().83 ;  that  is 
correct,  is  it? — A.  I  guess  it  is  ;  I  cannot  remember  (examining  vouch- 
er); that  is  correct;  it  is  in  my  handwriting. 

Mr.  Pool.  Is  that  an  original  or  an  amended  voucher? 

The  Chairman.  Original  vouchers  furnished  me  from  the  depart- 
ment this  morning. 

Q.  And  for  November,  the  same  year,  $144.12? — A.  I  guess  these  are 
corre(;t ;  these  are  my  monthly  bills.  I  sometimes  have  been  cut  out  of 
a  little  of  them. 

Q.  You  were  sometimes  cut  out  of  a  little  of  them? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(^.  11  ow  so? — A.  AVe  had  a  certain  percentage  for  the  amount  of 
■work  we,  done,  and  there  were  mistakes  made  in  my  accounts.  They 
were  cut  down  a  little,  I  believe.  Tln^  accounts  always  came  back,  and 
J  liad  to  make  new  ones. 

Q.   You  think  the  mistakes  were  eorn'cted  in  that  way? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(,^.  And  for  the  month  of  Deeendx'r,  1873,  $143.52;  and  for  January, 
J55M2.02(tlie  witness  examining  each) ;  and  for  February,  $100,53;  and 
for  March,  ^]m.r,7 ■  an<l  for  Aj)ril,  $1.53.22;  and  ibr  May,  $170.08;  and 
foi'  .hi lie,  $101. IS.     Tliese  are,  all  the  voiiehers.     Did  other  deputies  re- 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  175 

ceive  pay  in  two  capacities  at  the  same  time,  tliat  you  know  of? — A. 
Not  tbat  I  know  of.  I  suppose  some  of  them  did;  I  do  not  kuow  any- 
thing about  it, 

Q.  You  cannot  give  nie  the  name  of  any  deputy  who  did? — A.  Not  of 
my  own  knowledge. 

Q.  How  mucli  of  tluit  money  did  you  give  for  campaign  pur])oses,  for 
tlie  su])port  of  the  party? — A.  At  the  time  I  got  the  Tiioney  there  was 
no  campaign  going  on. 

Q.  There  was  a  campaign  going  on  in  the  fall  of  1872,  was  there 
not? — A.  Not  after  November. 

Q.  How  much  did  you  contribute  in  that  fall  to  that  campaign? — A. 
T  declare  I  don't  ren)ember  that  I  contributed  anything. 

Q.  Nothing  at  all? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  How  much  have  you  contributed,  according  to  the  best  of  your 
recollection,  since  you  have  been  in  oftice? — A.  Well,  sir,  in  the  hist 
cami)aign  1  contributed  $50. 

Q.  You  mean  the  campaign  on  prohibition? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  mean  the  Presidential  campaign? — A.  The  Presidential  cam- 
paign. 

Q.  You  did  not  contribute  a  full  month's  salary  as  the  others  did? — 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  How  much  did  you  give  to  the  last  campaign — the  prohibition 
■campaign? — A.  I  don't  know;  I  did  not  contribute  anything  particu- 
larly; I  sort  of  went  around  and  spent  my  money  where  it  would  do  the 
most  good. 

Q.  Individually? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  You  did  not  send  it  to  the  executive  committee? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  make  any  claim  for  this  $250  voucher  put  in,  which 
jou  say  you  did  not  receive? — A.  No,  sir;  I  never  made  another. 

Q.  Who  told  you  that  that  was  not  right? — A.  I  think  Mr.  Clarke  in- 
formed me  that  was  all  I  could  get ;  that  he  made  an  equal  division 
amongst  us,  as  near  as  he  could.  The  Commissioner  refused  to  give 
nuy  more  money. 

Q.  Did  you  know  why  your  vouchers  were  not  included  in  the  origi- 
nal abstract,  if  yon  had  been  doing  service? — A.  No,  sir;  I  don't. 

Q.  I  see  in  the  amended  abstract  for  the  quarter  ending  June  30, 
1873,  you  received  $104.83;  the  May  and  June  vouchers  for  that  period 
JOU  say  were  refused? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Yet  I  find  you  credited  with  $164.83.  Now  what  was  that  for;  it 
cannot  have  been  for  the  month  of  April? — A.  April  up  to  May  20. 

Q.  You  say  May  and  June  were  both  refused? — A.  The  next  voucher 
went  back  to  it — doubled  me  20  days  of  the  month,  which  was  a  mistake 
of  Clarke's  in  some  way. 

Q.  A  mistake  of  somebody's,  at  all  events.  In  the  original  abstract, 
covering  the  last  quarter  of  1872,  your  name  is  not  among  them,  or  down 
at  all  for  anything.  You  do  not  a]>pear  there  as  a  deputy,  and  in  the 
amended  abstract  it  is  put  down  for  $235.  Can  you  tell  me  why  the 
original  voucher  did  not  contain  your  name? — A.  No,  sir;  I  cannot. 

Q.  Was  ever  any  explanation  given  to  you  why  it  did  not  ? — A.  I  did 
not  know  till  now  that  it  was  not  on  the  original  voucher. 

Q.  Itisso,isitnot?  (HandingExhibitl4  to  witness.) — A.  (Examining.) 
I  see  it  is  not  there. 

Q.  And  you  were  doing  duty  regiilarly  at  that  time? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  I 
left  all  my  business  of  that  kind  with  Mr.  Clarke. 

Q.  Yon  say  that  the  revenue  officers  had  a  very  hard  time  down  there 
for  several  years  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


176  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Tliey  were  abused,  reviled,  and  so  on.  Did  any  of  tbeni  behave 
in  such  a  way  as  to  give  ground  for  the  disrespect  of  the  community  ? — 
A.  I  do  not  know;  none  I  ever  had  with  me  ever  did. 

Q.  You  got  into  some  little  trouble  yourself,  did  you  not? — A.  Yes, 
«ir. 

Q.  And  was  indicted  in  the  courts  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  went  aw-ay  in  consequence  of  it? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  That  was  not  the  reason  of  your  going  off? 

Mr.  Pool.  In  the  State  courts  ? 

The  Chairman.  The  State  courts. 

Q.  What  were  you  indicted  for? — A.  For  disturbing  a  camp-meeting. 

Q.  How  did  you  disturb  it  ? — A.  1  did  not  disturb  it. 

Q.  What  were  yon  doing  that  you  were  accused  of  disturbing  a  camp- 
meeting  ? — A.  I  was  accused. 

Q.  How  so  ? — A.  I  had  three  or  four  Democratic  enemies,  very  bitter 
against  the  reveiuie  officers,  who  swore  out  a  warrant  for  me,  and  L 
refused  to  be  arrested. 

Q.  What  did  they  accuse  you  of  doing  as  the  reason  for  swearing  out 
a  warrant  ? — A.  Disturbing  a  religious  camp-meeting. 

Q.  How  so;  what  was  the  actf — A.  I  do  not  know.  I  never  saw  the 
warrant. 

Q.  But  you  heard  what  they  accused  you  of? — A.  That  was  all  I  ever 
heard ;  I  never  saw  the  warrant.  I  never  saw  what  was  brought  against 
me. 

Q.  Did  they  not  accuse  you  of  taking  out  of  your  i)ocket  one  of  those 
things  that  was  called  a  "cundum"? — A.  I  believe  that  was  sworn  in 
the  court-house. 

Q.  And  you  blowed  it  up,  so  as  to  resemble  a  man's  penis,  and  showed 
it  to  the  ladies  ? — A.  1  do  not  know  whether  that  was  sworn  to  or  not. 

i).  Was  not  that  the  accusation? — A.  For  something  of  that  kind;  not 
sworn  against  me,  sir;  it  never  went  to  trial. 

i).  It  was  never  brought  to  trial.  The  case  was  fixed  up  only  by  Col- 
onel Armfield  a|)pearing  for  you,  you  submitting,  and  jlidgment  sus- 
liended  on  payment  of  the  costs? — A.  No,  sir;  Armfield  was  not  em- 
ployed. 

Q.  In  speaking  yesterday  of  the  danger  attending  revenue  officers  in 
the  execution  of  their  duty,  you  used  the  word  in  some  of  the  "  danger- 
uus  "  counties;  which  one  do  you  consider  was  of  that  kind?— A.  I  con- 
^sidered  Wilkes — some  i)arts  of  it. 

(^.  And  Yadkin? — A.  Xo,  sir;  Yadkin  was  not  a  very  dangerous 
county.  The  South  Mountains  was  the  dangerous  i)art  of  the  county. 
Itight  in  the  three  corners  tlu're  where  Catawba,  Cleveland,  ami  Lincoln 
run  u])  there  a  little  ways,  and  Polk  County,  called  the  "Dark  Corners," 
right  on  the  South  Carolina  border,  by  Tryon  City,  was  considered 
dangerous. 

(,).  Was  not  \\'ilkes  County  a  IJepuldican  county  at  that  time? — A. 
\'es,  sir. 

(.).  Was  not  Tolk  County  licpublican  at  that  time? — A.  I  am  not 
ac(iiuiinte<l  with  Polk  ('ounty. 

(.}.  Was  not  the  South  Mountain  country  you  S])eak  of  a  Kejtublican 
country — the  piecincts  in  the  county  to  whi<'li  it  was  attache<l  ? — A.  I 
do  not  know  as  to  that.  The  leading  men  of  the  county  are  Democrats, 
1  mean  of  tlie  section;  and  the  leading  bloekadeis  were  Democrats. 
Capt.  -Jake  Midi,  who  represented  the  county,  he  ran  for  the  legislature, 
maylte  he  was  defeated,  is  a  lea<ler  in  the  country,  and  the  biggest 
lijoekader  in  it — he  ;ind  his  brotluT. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  177 

Q.  What  I  want  you  to  say  is — if  it  is  the  truth,  not  otherwise — was 
the  blockadiuf?  confined  to  any  particuhir  party.' — A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not 
think  that  it  was — not  confined  to  any  particuhar  i^arty. 

Q.  Men  of  all  parties  Aver«'  engaged  in  it? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(i.  And  disturbances  and  hostility  to  the  revenue  officers  w.is  not 
coutined  to  any  particular  party  ? — A.  That  I  cannot  say,  because  they 
always  came  on  us  in  the  dark — fired  on  us  from  the  bush  and  so  on; 
but  as  a  geiu^ral  thing  our  foes  always  are  Democrats. 

Q.  Those  that  stand  out  and  talk  to  you  in  daylight;  but  those  who 
fired  on  you  from  the  bushes  in  the  dark  you  could  not  tell  who  they 
were? — A.  No,  sir;  we  were  fired  on  at  Captain  ^lulTs  house. 

().  You  say  for  a  long  while  when  the  public  sentiment  was  very 
strong-  iu  that  mountain  country  you  could  not  get  anything  to  eat? — 
A,  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  Did  the  Republicans  refuse  to  give  you  something  to  eat  ? — A.  I 
am  not  well  enough  acquainted  with  the  politics  of  the  country  to  know 
whether  we  asked  Republicans  or  Democrats. 

Q.  Did  you  not  know  that  in  every  settlement  in  the  Brushy  ]Moun- 
tains,  the  South  Mountains,  and  all  around,  there  were  some  substantial 
people,  who  had  continued  to  belong  to  the  Republican  party,  who  have 
refused  to  help  you  in  your  difficulties? — A.  I  do  not  know,  sir;  lam 
not  well  enough  acquainted  ;  but  can  say  at  one  time,  when  we  could 
not  get  anything.  Captain  AVilcox,  in  Ashe,  let  us  have  all  we  needed. 
I  do  not  know  whether  he  was  a  Democrat  or  Republican. 

i}.  He  was  a  Democrat  at  that  time  an<l  afterwards  changed.  Of 
course,  if  you  did  not  know  the  peo])le's  j^olitics  you  could  not  tell 
whether  they  were  Republicans  or  Democrats  who  refused  to  give  you 
something  to  eat  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  not  find  generally  in  the  earlier  days  that  the  revenue 
officers  were  carrying  things  with  a  very  high  hand  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  They  fre(iuently  made  bravado  with  their  pistols,  tiring  them  off 
a]ul  scaring  i>eoi)le  ? — A.  No,  sir  ;  none  iu  my  squad  ever  did  that. 

Q.  Have  you  m)t  heard  complaints  of  that  kind  from  the  people  ? — 
A.  I  have  heard  comi)laints  of  everything  against  the  revenue  officers. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  the  revenue  officers  did  not  some  time  ago 
go  around  with  the  marshal  making  ai  rests  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  do  you  not  know  that  it  was  charged  and  believed  that  these 
nu^rshals  carried  warrants  signed  in  blank,  so  as  to  arrest  any  one  they 
l)leased  ? — A.  Not  that  I  know  of.  I  think  the  marshals  had  instruc- 
tions if  they  caught  a  man  in  the  country  violating  the  law  they  had  a 
right  to  arrest  him. 

Q.  They  had  blank  warrants  ? — A.  They  held  warrants,  I  know.  They 
rode  out  always  with  warrants,  and  the  marshals  worked  under  those 
instructions. 

Q.  They  rode  out  with  warrants  ? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  Now,  the  marshal  along  with  you,  finding  a  respectable  man,  but 
whom  he  believed  was  a  man  worthy  to  be  arrested  for  something,  did 
the  marshal  go  back  to  town  for  any  commissioner  to  sign  the  warrant, 
or  did  he  just  pull  the  warrant  out  and  till  it  up  ? — A.  I  think  generally 
they  had  a  name  on  them  in  my  squad. 

Q.  How  is  it  that  when  a  young  Democrat  received  an  appointment 
he  was  expected  to  vote  the  Republican  ticket  ? — A.  No,  sir.  Generally 
it  was  expected  when  he  appoints  him  the  Democrats  will  kick  him  out, 
and  he  will  have  to  come  to  the  Republicans. 

Q,  And  the  result  is  he  does  come  ? — A.  They  kick  him  out  every 
time  when  he  starts. 

S.  Mis.  IIG 12 


■  178  COLLECTIOX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IX 

Q.  ])()  you  not  know  of  some  cases  when?  men  were  indicted  for 
blockadinr^',  and  jiidginent  was  suspended  against  them,  and  they  came 
out  gooil  l{epul)licans  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  as  I  do. 

Q.  "What  about  Jim  Williams  ? — 'A.  I  do  not  know  anything  about 
3iiin. 

Q.  Jim  Williauis  was  a  tierce  Democrat  at  the  start,  was  he  not? — A. 
"Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  he  not  get  into  trouble  about  blockading  ? — A.  I  thiidc  he  had 
;'Some  whisky  seized  in  Statesville.  It  is  my  recollection  of  it,  but  it  is 
before  my  time  as  a  revenue  ofiticer. 

Q.  Did  he  not  come  out  a  good  Republican  after  paying  the  costs? — 
A.  I  don't  know  whether  he  is  a  good  Republican  or  not. 

Q.  He  professes  to  be  ? — A.  He  professes  to  be. 

Q.  Did  not  Tom  Coo]>er,  the  i>resent  collector,  have  some  illicit  whisky 
seized  ? — A.  Xot  that  I  know  of. 

Q.  You  never  heard  of  that  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  His  teams  seized  and  sold,  and  he  was  bound  over  before  Mr. 
Holmes,  commissioner  at  Salisbury  ? — A.  I  never  heard  of  that. 

<Q.  He  was  a  Democrat,  was  he  not  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir,  at  one  time. 

Q.  Soon  afterwards  he  became  a  candidate  for  the  legishiture  on  the 
Republican  ticket,  did  he  not  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  when  the  teams 
were  seized.  I  know  he  was  a  candidate.  I  do  not  know  whether  soon 
;after  or  not. 

Q.  Did  you  hear  him  make  any  speeches  when  a  candidate  ? — A.  No, 
sir;  I  do  not  think  I  heard  Cooper  make  a  speech  in  that  campaign. 

Q.  Some  of  the  Sharpes  were  Democrats  that  are  now  in  the  revenue 
service,  were  they  not  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  Mr.  Clate  Sharpe  represents  the 
legislature  from  our  county. 

Q.  What  i>osition  did  he  get  in  the  revenue  service  ? — A.  A  deputy 
collector. 

Q.  O.  M.  Barkley  was  a  Democrat  was  he  not  ? — A.  Not  that  I 
rememl)er  of. 

i).  AVas  not  Hayne  Davis  a  Democrat? — A.  I  cannot  say. 

i],.  Was  not  John  Peden,  in  Wilkes  County? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  He  became  a  Republican  and  got  what  office  ? — A.  J  do  not  know  ; 
Le  is  a  Republican  now. 

Q.  When  you  were  in  Illinois,  did  you  write  for  the  voucbers  to  be 
sent  to  you,  or  did  somebody  write  to  you  and  ask  you  to  send  a 
voucher? — A.  I  left  ]Mr.  Clarke  to  attend  to  my  business  forme.  He 
wrote  me  that  he  had  lost  my  vouchers,  or  had  misplaced  them  in  the 
ofHce,  and  asked  me  to  make  new  \-ouchers,  so  as  to  get  my  njoney. 

(^.  Did  you  know  when  Mr.  Clarke  went  out? — A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not 
rememlter. 

Q.  It  was  in  1874,  was  it  not  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir  ;  I  believe  it  was,  I  don't 
remend)cr, 

Q.  You  told  us  yesterday  that  these  certificates — abstracts  of  the 
original  vouchers — were  not  in  Dr.  Mott's  handwriting,  that  one,  for 
instance  (handing  the  witness  an  exhibit  of  187.}) ;  you  said  the  same 
Ihing  of  those  of  1872? — A.  The  last  one  I  did  not  hardly  think  was. 
1  am  not  as  ]H)sitivc  of  it  as  of  the  two  first. 

(^.  Did  you  cvciImmi'  Dr.  >I<»tt  deny  that  these  were  his  signatures  ? — 
A.  Xo,  sir. 

(I.  Did  you  ever  talk  witii  Mi.  Clarke  about  it  ?— A.  To  Joe  Clarke? 
No,  sir;  never. 

Q.  He  was  gone  ]»etoir  xou  came  l>ack  from  Illinois  ! — A.  No,  sir; 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  179 

lie  was  there  when  I  came  baek  from  Illinois,  He  staid  under  Cooper 
awhile. 

Q.  Did  you  never  talk  with  him  al>out  it? — A.  Xo,  sir;  I  never 
thought  about  the  ])apers. 

Q.  Did  Dr.  ]\Iott  ever  say  to  you  how  it  came  that  he  ])ut  in  vouchers 
that  were  not  true;  that  Clarke  had  prepared  them  and  signed  just  as 
a  matter  of  form  without  his  looking  at  them  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  What  did  he  say  to  you  about  it  ? — A.  He  never  said  anything  to 
me  about  it  that  I  remember  of.  I  don't  think  the  Doctor  ever  talked 
with  me  about  the  matter.  We  were  talking  about  Clarke's  conduct  in 
the  ottice,  and  so  on ;  that  the  influence  of  whisky  had  made  Clarke 
make  mistakes,  and  so  on. 

Q.  Was  Clarke  a  dritdving  man  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  got  on  a  little 
sj)ree  occasionally — a  good-sized  one. 

Q.  IIow  long  did  he  do  that  before  he  left? — A.  I  think  he  quit 
drinking  before  1  left,  or  afterwards;  he  had  been  on  a  spree  and 
straightened  up.  There  was  not  a  great  deal  of  work  in  the  oflice  very 
often.  When  he  got  his  business  straightened  up  at  the  end  of  a  month, 
he  would  go  on  a  spree,  especially  Avheu  the  doctor  was  off;  whenever 
he  heard  the  doctor  was  in  town,  he  would  straighten  up  and  go  to 
work. 

Q.  Would  Mr.  Clarke  accomplish  the  work  very  fast — did  he  do  his 
work  fast  and  well  ? — A.  He  was  a  very  good  clerk  when  straight. 

Q.  ])id  he  get  ahead  of  the  business  and  then  take  a  spree? — A.  He 
would  get  up  with  his  business  and  take  a  spree. 

Q.  Is  the  doctor  about  the  office  much  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  he  give  i)roper  attention  to  the  duties  of  his  office  ? — A.  I 
was  not  capable  of  knowing  what  the  i>roper  attention  was  at  that  time. 
He  was  there  in  his  room  when  he  was  in  town  all  the  time  ;  quite  often ; 
nearly  always  writing  in  the  private  office  of  his  own. 

Q.  He  was  present  then  at  his  place  of  Ijusiness,  in  his  private  office, 
nearly  all  the  time"? — A.  Yes,  sir;  but  he  paid  very  little  attention  to 
the  revenue  part  of  it.  I  don't  think  he  knew  much  about  it.  Mr. 
Clarke  was  the  only  man  he  had  there  who  did.  Dr.  Mott  was  there 
sometimes,  but  did  not  know  anything  about  the  reveune  business. 

Q.  When  a  deputy  is  appointed  and  commissioned  was  there  usually 
a  record  made  of  it  at  the  office  ? — A.  I  don't  know,  sir,  whether  so  or 
not. 

Q.  Would  they  put  down  in  the  book  "W.  ]\I.  Walker,  appointed 
deputy"  such  and  such  a  date  ? — A.  It  is  now,  but  at  that  time  I  don't 
think  it  was.     I  don't  recollect  of  any  account  being  kept  of  it. 

Q.  When  a  man  is  discharged,  is  there  any  entry  made  in  the  books 
of  it  ? — A.  His  name  is  Just  crossed  out  in  our  list.  Now  there  is  public 
list  for  every  one,  showing  each  deputy',  his  division,  the  county  where 
he  works;  but  nothing  of  that  kind  was  done  at  the  time  when  Clarke 
was  there. 

Q.  At  that  time,  in  1872,  how  many  deputies  were  there  ? — A.  There 
were  only  three  regular  deputies,  I  think — three  or  four  besides  Clarke. 
1  don't  know  them. 

Q.  There  were  not  so  many  that  the  chief  clerk  was  likely  to  forget 
them,  would  he? — A.  No,  sir.  He  might  forget  them  in  ten  years;  I 
could  not  tell  Avho  the  deputies  were  at  that  time. 

Q.  At  the  time  he  made  out  the  vouchers  he  would  hardly  forget  who 
was  in  the  office  ? — A.  Mr.  Clarke  said  that  he  forgot  that  Kestler  was 
not  a  deputy.  That  is  very  likely,  because  changes  are  made  there 
from  one  time  to  another. 


180  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

(}.  Mr.  Clarke,  the  chief  clerk,  knew  all  the  changes,  did  he  not  ? — A, 
He  ought  to  have  known  it. 

Q.  When  drawing  money  from  the  government,  he  ought  to  know 
who  was  to  draw  it  ? — A.  Yes,  sir,  I  think  so. 

Q.  If  he  made  out  vonchers  for  men  who  had  not  been  in  the  office 
for  nine  months,  would  you  think  that  he  forgot  that  honestly  ■ — A.  1 
have  no  doubt  he  did — not  in  the  least. 

Q.  Perhaps  he  was  on  one  of  his  sprees  at  the  time  ? — A.  When  there 
making  out  reports  he  was  always  on  a  sort  of  a  spree;  he  would  write 
just  as  long  as  he  could  when  he  got  on  one  of  those  si)rees. 

Q.  Would  he  not  be  apt  to  remember,  when  sober,  tliat  he  had  made 
out  a  voucher  for  a  man  who  was  not  in  the  service  at  all? — A.  1  don't 
know.  He  was  one  of  those  sleepy-drinking  kind  of  men.  1  have 
known  him  to  sleep  about  24  hours  in  the  day. 

By  Mr .  Pool : 

Q.  Talking  about  the  matter  of  Mr.  Clarke  where  you  left  it  oft',  you 
say  he  was  sent  down  by  the  supervisor  in  1872? — A.  That  I  don't 
know,  sir;  I  only  remember  of  being  introduced  to  ]\[r.  Clarke  as  Dr. 
Mott's  clerk. 

Q.  Everything  was  left  into  his  hands  during  thatsummer  of  1872  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Was  not  Dr.  Mott  oft' in  that  campaign  ? — A.  He  was  gone  a  good 
part  of  the  time. 

Q.  Was  he  not  away  from  town  a  good  part  of  time  on  other  busi- 
ness?— A.  Yes,  sir;  I  don't  know  what  the  business  was. 

Q.  During  that  time  in  which  he  was  away,  Mr.  Clarke  would  get  on 
these  drinking  frolics  of  his  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  have  no  doubt  that  Mr.  Clarke  honestly  made  the  mis- 
take of  putting  Kestler's  in  when  he  was  not  in  ? — A.  I  have  not  the 
least  doubt. 

-  Q.  You  were  asked  just  now  and  were  shown  one  of  the  official 
vouchers  of  the  department,  extending  from  October  21  to  December 
31,  whether  your  name  appeared  on  the  original  abstract  that  was  ])ut 
in.  You  said  your  name  did  not  appear  on  it  at  all,  but  on  the  amended 
abstract  '. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  Did  not  Mr.  Xestler's  name  appear  on  the  original  abstract  in  your 
])lace  ? — A.  I  would  have  to  look  at  it.  (The  abstract  handed  to  the 
witness.)     (Examining.)     Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Kestlers  name  appears  there  when  your  name  ought  to  appear  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  that  is  the  mistake  that  ]\Ir.  Clarke  made  about  which  all  this 
fuss  occurred  ? — A.  I  suppose  so. 

(}.  That  was  corrected  in  the  amended  voucher  your  name  i)ut  in ; 
nn<l  Kestlers  name  left  out? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  And  Clarke's  mistake  was  corrected  when  it  was  discovered  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

The  CllATKMAN.  lie  does  not  know  anything  about  when  the  mistake 
was  (lis(;ov<'ied. 

I'.y  .Mr.  P(H.i.: 

^^>.  Do  you  recollect  shortly  alter  this  Mr.  (Clarke  (piit  drinking  ? — A. 

I  don't  know.     Mr.  Clarke  wouhl  stoj*  every  time  the  doctor  wouhl  come 

liome  iuid  sctit  ol"  pin  down  on  Iiim  whatever  tinu'  he  could  get  to  see 

him.     Clarice  would  "o  olf  and  hide  him.self     The  doctor  woidd  come 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA  131 

to  see  biui  aud  make  bim  straighten  up.  and  then  he  wouhl  stay  sober 
•until  everything-  was  straightened  up. 

Q.  That  went  on  to  some  time  in  1874,  when  Mr.  Clarke  went  out  of 
the  service  ? — A.  I  (h)n't  know  exactly  what  time  he  went  out. 

Q.  You  acted  both  as  a  ganger  and  deputy  part  of  the  time  and  drew 
)»ay  for  both? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(^  The  items  you  gave  of  $235,  up  to  December  ;>1,  and  83CM)  from 
thence  to  ^larch  31,  and  81G4.S3  thence  to  ]May  l'o.  were  paid  to  yon  as 
a  deputy  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  And  they  aggregated,  I  see,  8G!)9.S3,  which  you  stated  in  your 
original  examination  you  received  at  the  time  as  deputy  f — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  did  not  end)race  anything  yon  receive<l  as  ganger  during  that 
time? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  You  held  those  two  offices,  yon  say,  as  you  supposed  rightfully, 
because  Mr.  Crane  .said  it  was  all  right;  who  was  Mr.  Crane? — A.  He 
was  the  agent  who  came  down  there  from  Washington. 

Q.  From  the  department  here  ? — A.  I  think  sent  there  from  the  de- 
partment here. 

Q.  Aud  it  was  under  instructions  from  Mr.  Crane  that  such  a  thing 
was  done? — A.  Under  the  instructions — what  he  said  down  there. 

Q.  It  came  from  an  officer  here  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir.  Under  that  and  the 
other  collectors  having  already  acted  as  I  said. 

Q.  Y'ou  mean  Wiley  ? — A.  Under  Mr.  Wiley  and  Mr.  Henderson,  men 
acting  as  assessors  aud  deputies,  and  gangers  and  assessors. 

Q.  That  had  been  done  i)reviously  in  the  reveinte  department  under 
the  previous  administrations  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  As  gaugers  you  received  a  per  cent,  on  the  amount  gauged  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  it  was  by  that  per  cent,  that  the  amount  which  the  chairman 
read  about  from  the  vouchers  was  made  out? — A.  Y'es,  sir:  and  with 
my  exi>enses. 

Q.  Were  they  correctly  made  up  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  Were  they  allowed  l)y  the  department  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  render  service  honestly  for  the  amounts  for  which  they 
were  made  up  ? — A.  I  did,  sir. 

Q.  Did  the  department  afterwards  cut  down  that  allowance  ? — A. 
Only  where  I  Avould  make  a  mistake. 

Q.  Did  they  afterward  change  that  mode  of  paying  gaugers  ? — A. 
Y'es,  sir.  It  has  been  changed  two  or  three  times  since  that  day.  I  am 
not  exactly  acquainted  with  the  amounts  paid  them  now ;  think  it  is 
changed  a  good  deal. 

Q.  You  were  speaking  of  how  they  were  paid  at  that  time  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  If  you  had  gauged  sufficient  spirits  your  amount,  instead  of  being 
$100  a  month,  might  have  been  two  or  three  hundred  dollars  or  any 
other  amount — might  have  run  away  beyond  these  amounts  ? — A.  Y'es, 
sir.  We  had  an  order  from  the  Commissioner  some  time  in  September, 
1872,  that  we  would  not  l)e  allowed  over  $0  a  day ;  that  our  amounts  in 
the  month  shouhl  not  run  over  89  a  day. 

Q.  That  would  be  8270  a  month  ?— a\  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Y'ours  did  not  exceed  at  anytime  8100  a  month? — A.  That  in- 
<'ludes  expenses,  89  a  day  for  gauging;  allowed  $3  a  day  for  horse  and 
buggy. 

Q.  Were  you  active,  personally,  in  political  campaigns  al)ont  that 
time? — xV.  Xo,  sir;  I  always  did  a  little  talking  where  I  was  passing 
along. 


182  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Weie  yon  guilty  of  the  charge  brought  against  you  about  disturb- 
ing that  canip-nieeting  ? — A.  Well,  the  luen  who  swore  I  distnrlted  the 
oanip-uieetiug  were  a  hundred  yards  otf.  After  they  undertook  to  arrest 
me  1  disturbed  them  right  smarth'. 

Q.  How  i — A.  I  knocked  one  of  them  down  and  kicked  two  or  three. 

Q.  What  became  of  the  prosecution  t — A.  It  was  compromised. 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  if  the  prosecution  was  during  the  time  of  your 
residence  in  the  West — did  it  get  into  court? — A.  Yes,  sir.  I  did  not 
appear:  I  never  saw  the  warrant.  I  did  not  get  wind  of  it  before  I  got 
there;  they  said  that  it'  I  paid  the  costs  they  would  let  me  oft".  I  never 
l»aid  any  attention  to  it.  I  was  ilxing  to  leave  the  State  of  Xorth  Caro- 
lina at  the  time. 

Q.  You  did  not  want  to  leave  with  this  hanging  over  you  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir,  I  left.  I  was  going  to  leave  any  way;  I  did  not  allow  them  to  arrest 
me,  but  I  did  not  stop  for  it.  I  got  out  of  the  county  before  the  grand 
jury  met. 

Q.  Were  you  under  the  impression  that  it  was  a  piece  of  political 
l)ersecution  .' — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  said  just  now  that  a  few  of  your  political  enemies  in  that  par- 
ticular locality  got  it  up  ? — A.  I  always  thought  that  and  always  will. 
One  of  them  was  a  relation  of  mine. 

Q.  And  tliey  dismissed  the  prosecution  on  your  payment  of  the  costs  ? 
— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  think  that  a  warrant,  or  a  copy  of  it,  has  been  on  exhibition 
here,  embracing  3Jr.  Thomas  Cooper's  name,  the  present  collector,  as- 
having  violated  the  internal-revenue  laws,  by  blockading  occurring  in 
1SC7;  that  was  15  years  ago,  was  it  not  ? — A.  I  was  not  there  15  years 
ago.  , 

Q.  That  was  before  vou  went  into  the  service  ? — A.  I  did  not  go  in 
till  1872. 

Q.  You  never  heard  or  knew  anything  about  it ;  it  occurred  back  in 
18ij7,  and  tbat  will  explain  why  you  did  not  hear  of  it  ? — A.  Well,  sir, 
it  might  have  died  out  by  the  time  I  got  old  enough  to  pay  any  atten- 
tion to  it.     I  was  at  school  at  that  time. 

Q.  Did  you  know  he  was  never  indicted  on  account  of  it  at  all  ? — A. 
I  know  nothing  about  it  at  all.     I  never  heard  he  was  accused  of  it. 

The  following  witness  was  called  on  behalf  of  Dr.  Mott. 

H.  X.  DwiRE  sworn  and  examined. 
]}y  .Air.  Pool  : 

(Question.  F  desire  to  examine  you  about  the  assessment  for  oftice  ex- 
]>ciises.  Will  you  state  whether  there  was  an  account  made  up  of  the 
disbursement  of  money  collected  for  office  expenses  ? — Answer.  There 
was. 

Q.  Will  yon  state  anything  about  what  you  know  of  it — the  way  it 
was  done,  and  whether  the  money  was  honestly  exj^ended  or  not,  and 
all  about  it  ' — A.  There  Avas  no  allowani-e  nmde  for  certain  expenses 
that  we  had  to  incur.  That  we  in  the  oflice  had  paid  for  sometime,  and 
the  (tircular  was  issued  by  Dr.  Alott  calling  on  the  other  olFicers  toassist. 
Tliat  it  was  not  right  for  a  i)art  to  i)ay  all  and  others  not.  He  wanted 
lit  equaliz(^  it,  and  it  was  applie*!  as  needed,  for  those  necessary  ex- 
penses connected  with  the  oflice. 

i).  That  was  done  for  the  jturj^ose  of  e(|nalizing  the  weight  that  was 
thrown  upon  the  ollice,  by  tlie  failure  to  allow  certain  expenses  that 
were  necessary  .' — A.   Yes,  sir. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  183 

(^).  Did  yon  keep  an  account? — A.  Yes,  sir.  I  made  up  an  account 
wiien  the  revenue  a<;ent  called  for  it. 

(}.  Was  tlie  amount  that  was  collected  lionestly  expended  for  that 
purpose  t — A.  It  was. 

Q.  For  no  other  ? — A.  Xo  other,  to  my  knowledge;  and  it  could  not 
be  exi)eude<l  without  my  knowledge. 

i}.  Without  your  knowledge'?— A.  I  do  not  think  it  could.  I  was 
keeping"  the  account. 

Q.  Were  you  custodian  of  the  fund? — A.  I  was. 

().  And  had  charge  of  the  disbursement  of  them  ? — A.  I  had;  how- 
ever, that  was  not  so  altogether;  sometimes  I  was  away  from  the  office 
and  some  little  expenses  Mr.  Brown  would  sometimes  pay  out.  I  ]>aid 
when  1  was  there. 

Q.  You  think  these  disbursements  were  honestly  conducted  in  all  re- 
s])ects? — A.  They  were. 

Q.  How  much'  did  each  officer  pay  ? — A.  It  varied  considerably  mi 
amount. 

(^  liecau.se  it  was  1  i)er  cent,  of  the  salaries  ? — A.  That  was  called  for,, 
but  some  <lid  not  resi)ond,  a]id  some  were  never  called  upon  at  all.  AVheu 
the  circular  was  sent  out,  about  such  as  were  on  duty  at  that  time.  We 
never  sent  out  to  the  others  when  they  went  on  duty. 

Q.  Y^ou  say  you  always  tried  to  keep  enough  money  on  hand  to  meet 
current  expenses  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Was  there  always  enough? — A.  After  the  first  contributions. 

Q.  Y'ou  did  not  find  it  necessary  to  press  a  nntn  who  was  reluctant  to 
pay  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  who  had  jiaid  and  who  had  not.  The  money  I 
recollect  was  ])laced  in  a  large  enveloi)e  and  put  in  the  safe  to  itself^ 
This  enveh'i)e  was  taken  out  and  the  vouchers  put  in  for  disbursements, 
whenever  we  got  bills  or  vouchers.  Little  items  we  regarded  as  a  private 
matter,  and  Dr.  Mott  remarked  that  these  little  expenses  would  show 
for  themselves  Avithout  having  a  regular  voucher  for  them. 

Q.  A  man  with  the  name  of  J.  N.  Summers  thought  he  said  that  he 
had  paid  a  dollar  a  month  for  about  24  months,  or  not  quite  so  much — 
approximately  I  think  it  amounted  up  to  SIG  ? — A.  That,  I  think,  to  the 
best  of  my  recollection,  I  have  not  the  vouchers  now,  or  the  memoranda  ; 
that  is  more  than  any  man  paid.  I  will  make  a  statement  about  him. 
He  was  in  the  office  one  day  and- asked  me  the  question  how  much  he 
was  dne.  Says  I,  '•  I  don't  know  anything-  about  it;  I  never  made  up 
the  ac;'ount."'  He  said,  "I  have  not  time  to  run  here  day  and  night  in 
order  to  show  every  dollar  which  is  put  in  that  fund."'  Says  I,  "Xever 
mind,  whenever  we  need  it  we  will  let  yon  know.  I  think  there  is 
enough  tor  present  use,  and  when  I  make  out  the  account  if  anything 
is  needed  I  will  let  you  kn(»w."' 

Q.  Y^ou  think  that  Mr.  Summers  was  mistaken  about  its  running  up 
to  !$1G  ? — A.  He  certainly  was.  1  do  not  think  My.  Summers  was  ouduty 
but  a  short  time — a  few  months  is  my  recollection — and  only  paid  a  few 
dollars. 

Q.  That  account  was  made  up  by  you  afterwards  for  ><3.20  ? — A.  What- 
ever it  was;  whatever  I  found  the  memorandum  set  dou^n. 

Q.  Do  you  think  he  ever  paid  to  any  one  more  than  that  ? — A.  1  do 
not  think  he  did. 

Q.  Did  you  send  out  any  letter  1o  those  making  inquiry  in  regard  to 
what  amount  they  had  ])aid  for  office  expenses? — \.  Yes,  sir.  I  did. 

Q.  AYhat  did  that  letter  contain,  and  for  what  purpose  was  it  writ, 
ten  ? — A.  That  they  ntiglit  answer  the  leiter  from  the  Commissioner  cor- 
rectly.    A  good  many  i)eople  wrote  to  know  what  amount  they  had 


184  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

given.  They  had  kept  no  niemorandnm.  I  looked  at  the  book  and 
wrote  them  the  amount,  and  answered  some  other  inquiries  also  that 
they  made  about  it.  Some  did  not  understand  the  letter — what  it 
meant — why  it  was  sent  out. 

Q.  It  allVelated  to  this  office  expense?— A.  Yes,  sir;  I  so  explained 
to  them  in  this  letter,  that  it  had  reference  to  office  expenses  alone. 

Q,  You  explained  that  it  di<l  not  apply  to  political  assessments'? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Theie  was  a  letter  written  by  the  Commissioner  to  these  officers — 
something  in  regard  to  this  matter— political  assessments,  or  official  ex- 
penses, or  something  of  that  sort,  was  there  not? — A.  There  was  a  letter 
in  regaid  to  the  incidental  expenses. 

Q."  Written  by  the  Commissioner? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  To  the  various  officers  of  the  district? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  give  these  officers  instructions  how  to  answer  it  ? — A.  I 
gave  instructions  how  to  answer  it — that  it  was  for  incidental  expenses, 
and  not  for  campaign  purposes.  The  question  had  been  asked  me  by 
some  one  Avhetherit  meant  campaign  purposes;  and,  by  the  way,  some 
of  them  answeied  in  that  way — how  much  they  had  contributed  to  the 
campaign. 

Q.  That  was  not  the  purport  of  the  Commissioner's  letter  at  all? — A. 
No,  sir. 

Q.  You  simply  explained,  in  answer  to  the  inquiry,  what  was  the  true 
purport  of  the  Commissioner's  letter,  that  it  applied  only  to  office  ex- 
l)enses,  and  not  to  this  campaign  contribution? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Some  of  them  nustook  the  matter  in  answering  the  Commissioner's 
letter,  and  that  he  was  infiuiring  about  campaign  expenses  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  And  they  put  in  a  very  considerable  amount — more  than  they 
paid  for  office  expenses? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  got  one  letter  where  a  man 
thanked  me  for  writing  him,  saying  that  he  had  inadvertently  answered 
the  other  incorrectly,  and  had  nmde  an  explanation  of  it. 

Q.  That  produced  some  mistake  by  their  replies  to  the  Comnds- 
sioner  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  increased  the  amount  for  office  expenses  far  beyond  what  it 
actually  was  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  were  a  number  of  years  thj?re  in  Statesville  with  Dr.  Mott, 
were  you  not  ? — A.  I  was  not  in  the  office  all  the  time.  I  was  in  the  of- 
fline from  May  1st,  1879,  until  about  June  15,  1881.  1  was  deputy  collec- 
tor irom  187G. 

Q.  \\'ere  y(  u  a  storekeejx'r  ])art  of  tlie  time? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Avi'  you  still  in  the  revenue  service? — A.  T  am. 

(^  In  another  district  ? — A.  In  tlie  5th  district. 

(}.  Are  \()ii  well  a(;(iuainted  with  the  (Jth  <listrict? — A.  1  am  with  cer- 
tain j>arts  of  the  distii(;t. 

(^.  Stat<' whether  years  ago  there  was  a  great  deal  of  trouble  in  col- 
Ie<;tiijg  llie  re\emie,  and  about  tlie  slate  of  leeling  on  this  subjecl,  so  far 
as  you  know  i — A.  There  was. 

<^.  JIas  there  been  much  imi)rovement  .' — A.  Yes,  a  gicat  deal  of  an 
imi»i-o\'eiiicnt  u])  to  the  time  1  left  tljere,  so  far  as  my  know  ledge  ex- 
tends. 

<^>.  Was  Dr.  .Mott  diligently  trying  to  bring  about  sucii  impro^'e- 
inents  ? — .\.   He  was. 

().  Did  you  notice  the  geneial  conduet  of  the  oflice  by  Dr.  .Mott  when 
under  iiis  supervision,  or  the  manner  in  which  it  was  generally  con- 
ducted .' — A.   Ves,  sir. 


The  sixth  iDi.stRicT  of  is^orth  caroLISa.  185 

i}.  Was  it  well  done  ? — A.  I  thiuk  it  was. 

Q.  Honestly  ?— A.  I  thiuk  so. 

Q.  Witli  iiitejirity  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Di<l  you  ever  see  any  effort  to  defraud  any  of  his  deputies  or  suh- 
othcers  ? — A.  I  never  saw  any  thin  <i'  of  the  kind. 

Q.  Or  the  misapplication  .of  funds  in  any  way  ' — A.  I  never  have. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  known  of  otticial  misconduct  on  the  part  of  Dr. 
Mott,  of  any  character  ? — A.  I  never  have. 

Q.  Do  you  know  his  general  character  in  the  community  i — A.  I 
think  I  do. 

Q.  What  is  it?— A.  It  is  good. 

Q.  In  what  resi)ect  is  it  good  ? — A.  It  is  good  as  to  his  l>eing  a  gen- 
tleman of  integrity;  but  I  don't  know  as  I  can  hardly  ex]>ress  it — it  is 
in  every  respect  good. 

Q.  Is  it  bad  in  any  respect  ? — A.  Ko,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  man  in  that  country  who  stands  higher  so- 
cially ? — A.  I  do  not.  I  have  heard,  as  politics  were  referred  to,  even 
a  number  of  Democrats  s]ieak  of  him  in  the  very  highest  terms  socially 
as  a  man  of  high  regard.  Of  course  when  they  speak  of  him  politi- 
cally it  is  different. 

Q.  Do  they  talk  about  him  as  a  man  and  an  officer  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  as 
a  man  and  an  officer  he  stands  high. 

Q.  There  have  been  several  of  these  charges  and  denunciations  of 
improper  conduct  in  the  district  in  collecting  revenue ;  have  they  had 
any  effect  upon  his  character  at  all  '  Do  they  make  men  think  less  of 
Dr.  Mott  ? — A.  I  think  not;  I  think  he  stands  much  higher  to  day  than 
possibly  he  did  in  the  past. 

Q.  Do  you  think  then  that  the  thinking  good  men  of  that  section 
believe  any  of  these  reports  that  are  gotten  up  upon  him  '? — A.  I  have 
heard  men  express  their  satisfaction  that  there  would  be  nothing  against 
him  that  was  willfully  wrong. 

Q.  Their  belief  that  there  would  be  no  wrong  ever  proved  ? — A.  That 
was  their  belief. 

Cross-examination,  by  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  When  this  levy  was  made  for  office  expenses,  how  may  officers 
were  thereon  duty  in  that  district '? — A.  I  do  not  know  for  certain  ;  I 
suppose  from  CO  to  100  ;  might  reach  a  little  over  on  duty  at  the  time — 
probably  75. 

Q.  The  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue  reports  205  distilleries  in 
operation  during  the  year  ? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  about  that. 

Q.  Was  there  not  a  storekeeper  to  every  distillery  ! — A.  Those  that 
were  operating. 

Q.  He  reports  that  many  operated  during  the  year? 

Mr.  Pool.  In  operation  all  the  time  ? 

The  Chairiman.  He  does  not  say  in  operation  all  the  time,  but  in  ope- 
ration during'  the  year. 

Q.  There  was  a  storekeeper  to  each  one  of  them  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  many  deputies  were  there  ? — A.  Aljout  13  or  14  regular. 

Q.  How  many  special  ? — A.  They  vary  according  to  the  allowance. 

Q.  On  an  average,  how  many? — A.  I  suppose  there  would  be,  per- 
haps— I  don't  know  as  I  oould  say  positively — sometimes  on  and  some- 
times not,  0  or  8,  and  just  as  high  as  10  or  20. 

Q.  Would  it  average  ten  ? — A.  I  sui)pose  it  would  average  ten. 

Q.  How  many  general  storekeei)ers  ? — A.  From  three  to  live.  In  the 
last  vear  thev  have  been  increased  some. 


186  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  How  many  were  there  wben  the  circular  was  issued  ' — A.  1  think 
there  were  there  perhaps  five  at  that  time. 

Q.  Five  general  storekeepers  t — A.  I  think,  thouy,h  I  am  not  positive^ 
that  there  was. 

Q.  Now,  if  all  the  distilleries  were  in  operation,  and  all  these  other 
officers  were  added  to  the  clerks,  and  so  forth,  it  would  be  about  200 
officers  to  whom  this  circular  was  sent  oat  ? — A.  It  never  went  to  that 
many;  they  were  made  out  one  evening. 

Q.  How  many  were  sent  out? — A.  I  think  probably  somewhere  in  the 
neighborhood  of  a  hundred  ;  not  certain. 

Q.  Suppose  there  were ;  that  would  have  been  a  hundred  dollars  a 
month  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  your  office  expenses  amount  to  8100  a  month  .' — A.  Xo,  sir  ^ 
half  the  amount  of  it  was  left. 

Q.  What  expenses  were  there  which  you  had  no  right  to  pay  for  out 
of  the  funds  of  the  office  ? — A.  There  was  a  messenger;  the  department 
did  not  make  any  allowance  for  a  messenger.  Then  we  had  to  have 
some  printing  done  ;  the  department  made  no  allowance  for  it.  Then 
we  had  some  other  things  or  expenses  which  were  not  allowed,  and  coidd 
not  be,  and  we  had  to  pay  the  money.  For  instance,  postage.  Mail 
matter  was  held  for  light  postage  from  persons  sending  to  us  forstami)s. 

Q.  Did  not  the  government  make  any  allowance  for  postage  ? — A. 
This  was  really  persons  sending  for  stamps.  Tliey  had  not  paid  full 
]»ostage,  and  we  either  had  to  let  the  letter  remain  in  the  office  or  ])ay 
the  postage. 

Q.  The  government  allows  you  something  for  postage  ? — A.  The  gov- 
ernment don't  allow  anything  in  that  way  tor  mail  received.  The  gov- 
ernment made  an  appropriation  for  sending  out  all  official  matter. 

Q.  Did  it  allow  nothing  for  check-books  ? — A.  Xo,  sir  ;  they  decided 
that  the  banks  should  furnish  the  books,  aud  the  banks  failed  to  or  re- 
fused. 

Q.  How  mu(;h  did  you  paj'  the  messenger  ? — A.  About  $10  a  month  ; 
I  am  not  certain  ;  it  was  set  down  in  the  account. 

Q.  I  see  in  the  account  tiled  here,  purporting  to  be  an  account  prepared 
1\V  you,  that  when  the  account  was  taken  there  was  $157  there  that  you 
had  never  expended. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  did  you  do  with  that  ? — A.  Part  of  that  was  expended  for 
other  necessary  things  about  the  office  by  ourselves.  AVhen  1  left  there, 
or  some  time  V>ef<ue,  I  turned  it  over  to  the  colle(;tor.  I  am  not  certain 
of  the  aujount  that  was  turned  over. 

(}.  Did  you  kec})  any  books  of  these  amounts  you  collected  ? — A.'l 
made  out  a  report  in  aboolc  from  letters  and  nuMnorandums  lying  there. 

().  That  was  when  tlie  oflicer  called  on  you  for  this  account ;  but 
wlien  you  c<»mm«'nce<l  c  Electing  tliis  amount  and  receiving  it,  did  you 
keep  any  books  ;  did  you  enter  any  account  of  what  you  received  r«'g- 
iilarly  .' — A.  I  did  not  enter  it  everyday;  Just  ])ut  it  in  an  envcloix', 
and  (ince  or  twice  we  took  out  and  entered  up  what  was  received,  and 
tiu"  l>ahinc<',  was  there. 

().   NVIiiit  did  you  enter  it  up  upiui  .' — A.  A  book". 

(}.  W'n.\t  book  :' — A.  The,  bool<  I  jturchased  for  it. 

(}.  Wlici-e  is  tiiat  book  .' — A.  I  am  not  certain  :  I  tliiiilc  that  was  left 
flifif  in  tli(^  oflicc  sonicw  here  wlicn  I  h*ff. 

(}.  Von  told  tin- coiiiinittcc  that  Dr.  .Mott'scliaractcrw  asxciy  Iiigh  ;  that 
you  never  lie  ird  of  any  offuMal  misconduct  on  his  part  or  an\  t  liing  against 
his  integrity,  and  so  on.     Did  you  ever  hear  of  anything  against  his 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  187 

officers? — A.  I  ciumot  say;  have  heard  general  rniuors  agaiust  thcin, 
maybe. 

Q.  What  time  you  were  iu  his  employ  you  never  heard  of  anythiug 
Avrong  ou  the  i)art  of  any  of  his  officers  ". — A.  If  I  stated  that,  I  did  not 
meau  to  say  that;  I  have  heard  rumors  against  his  officers. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  charges  made  and  investigated,  and  store- 
keepers dismissed  for  misconduct,  and  so  forth  .' — A.  I  think  now  1  have 
known  of  some  being  dismissed. 

Q.  Tliey  were  not  dismissed  for  good  conduct,  were  they  ? — A.  I  wish 
to  be  understood.  I  did  not  understand  the  question  iu  regard  to  Dr. 
Mott  and  his  officers. 

Q.  The  committee  has  charge  of  investigating  the  whole  system. — 
A.  I  want  to  correct  the  answer  as  to  the  officers:  it  was  alleged — of 
course  they  could  not  be  discharged  for  good  conduct. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  you  did  not  hear  of  a  great  deal  of  misconduct 
ou  the  part  of  the  officers,  and  general  complaint  ? — A.  At  one  time,  some 
few  years  ago,  I  heard  a  great  deal  said,  but  that  was  a  general  thing — 
abusing  officers,  particularly  those  iu  the  revenue — and  I  paid  little  or  uo 
attention  to  it. 

Q.  I  am  referring  to  official  abuses  charged  agaiust  the  collector's 
office  here  in  Washington,  and  agaiust  the  dei)artmeut,  and  investiga- 
tions made  and  the  men  dismissed,  &c.  Was  there  not  a  good  deal  of 
that  in  that  district  ? — A.  We  had  a  number  of  officers.  I  do  not  think 
there  was. 

Q.  Taking  out  the  large  number  of  officers,  do  you  uot  think  there  was 
a  great  deal  t — A.  Not  in  proportion  to  the  number  of  officers,  I  think. 
At  one  time  there  was  some  investigation,  but  I  don't  know  of  my  own 
knowledge.  When  Mr.  Crane  was  down  there  he  had  a  few  discharged 
ou  their  reports,  after  some  discoveries.  I  was  not  connected  with  the 
revenue  at  that  time,  and  I  cannot  think  of  any  great  number  siuce  that 
have  been  dismissed.     There  have  been  some,  thougli. 

Q.  What  years  were  you  in  the  office? — A.  From  1879  to  1881  I  was 
in  the  collector's  office.     I  was  deputy'  collector  of  a  division  before  that. 

Q.  What  did  you  do  iu  the  office  ? — A.  I  was  in  the  stamp  depart- 
ment; issuing  stami^s  was  my  principal  business,  and  I  kept  up  the  re- 
cords. 

Q.  Did  you  have  any  means  of  knowing  the  amounts  of  political  as- 
sessments collected  iu  18S0  for  campaign  purposes  ? — A.  I  did  not  know 
anything  about  that. 

Q.  You  were  there  at  the  office? — A.  I  was  there  at  the  office,  but  I 
did  uot  know. 

Q.  You  know  that  the  officers  were  pretty  generally  assessed,  and 
paid? — A.  I  think  so;  that  was  the  understanding. 

Q.  A  month's  salary  at  a  time,  was  it  not  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  that 
of  my  own  knowledge.  I  have  heard  some  storekeepers  say  that  they 
paid  a  mouth's  salary. 

Q.  How  much  did  you  ])ay? — A.  I  did  not  pay  anything  that  year. 
Inasmuch  as  I  did  not,  I  reckon  an  explanation  will  uot  be  out  of  place. 
AVhen  the  circular  of  Mr.  Cooper  catne  out,  I  said  my  salary  would  not 
justify  me  iu  giving  very  much.  They  thought  of  the  work  I  had  to  do, 
and  then  said  maybe  I  would  not  be  assessed,  but  of  course  did  not  say 
1  should  not  be. 

Q.  AVhat  was  your  salary  ? — A.  Xiue  hundred  and  fifty  dollars,  at 
that  time. 

Q.  What  did  Mr.  Cooper's  circular  contain? — A.  I  am  not  certain  a.< 


188  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    iN 

to  that.  It  was  calling  for  contributions,  and  that  it  should  be  about  1 
jj)er  cent.,  to  the  best  of  my  recollection. 

Q.  Who  was  that  sent  to? — A.  It  was  supposed  to  be  sent  to  the  offi- 
cers. 

Q.  To  all  the  officers? — A.  I  do  not  know  if  it  was  sent  to  all.  I 
received  one. 

Q.  Did  you  receive  it  from  the  office  of  (he  collector,  or  direct  from 
Mr.  Coo])er? — A.  I  do  not  know;  I  would  not  say  on  my  oath;  I  may 
Lave  picked  it  up  in  the  office.  I  recollect  seeing  the  circular.  Whether 
there  was  one  addressed  to  me  by  his  hand  I  am  not  certain,  or  whether 
there  was  one  handed  me  in  the  office  by  some  one,  or  I  found  it  on  the 
tal)le  or  desk.     There  may  have  been  one  regularly  addressed  to  me. 

Q.  You  said  you  did  not  pay  anything  that  year;  did  you  pay  any- 
thing in  any  other  year? — A.  I  i)aid  at  different  times,  some  months,  a 
voluntary  coutril)ution. 

Q.  They  were  all  voluntary? — A.  I  think  I  paid  the  tirst  assessment. 
I  received  a  circular  from  the  national  executive  committee;  I  responded 
to  that  with  some  small  amount  at  the  time. 

Q.  Whatever  sum  it  was  you  paid  it? — A.  I  do  not  know  what;  it  was 
whatever  was  convenient,  probably  some  $10  or  §15;  I  don't  think  ex- 
ceeding that,  and  amounts  at  diiierent  times  since.  What  I  mean  by 
"voluntary,"  I  may  have  given  to  some  speaker  who  came  along,  to 
some  extent,  paying  his  hotel  bill,  ^c. 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  duties  E.  B.  Drake  performed  when  he  was  gen- 
eral storekeeper  while  you  were  there? — A.  His  duty  was  to  withdraw 
spirits  in  all  the  warehouses  of  his  division  that  were  under  suspension 
and  ha<l  no  regularly  assigned  storekee])er. 

Q.  Did  he  do  that,  or  some  other  of  the  deputies  or  storekeepers  do 
it  for  him  ? — A.  I  do  not  know ;  he  had  not  been  up  i>art  of  the  time 
himself.     I  have  known  of  his  going  frequently. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  anyl)ody  ever  performing  this  duty  for  him  ? — A. 
I  think  on  some  occasions  probably  a  man  by  the  name  of  Moss  per- 
formed some  for  him  near  Mocksville,  his  home. 

Q.  Do  you  know  that  Mr.  J.  K.  Summers  performed  that  duty  for 
'him  ? — A.  I  do  not. 

Q.  Do  you  know  if  Mr.  Coite  did  ? — A.  I  don't  know.  Whenever 
stamps  were  received  from  any  of  the  parties  purchasing,  the  general 
.storekeeper  was  notified. 

Q.  Was  it  not  a  general  rule  for  the  general  storekeeper  to  send  some 
•of  tlie  storekeei)ers  out  in  his  place  to  stamp  the  liquor? — A.  I  do  not 
think  it  was  general.  lie  might  have  <lone  so  in  some  instances  if  he 
could  not  go.  The  reason  I  mcntioniMl  it  in  regard  to  ]Moss — he  is  now 
dead — he  was  taken  sick,  and  started  out  in  a  buggy  at  the  time  ;  that 
fixed  it  on  my  memory  when  it  was.  Sonu'  one  told  me  that  he  had 
started  out  to  do  some  work  for  ^Ir.  Drake,  when  he  was  taken  sick. 

Q.  Where  do  you  live  ? — A.  In  Winston  now. 

Q.  Are  j'ou  a  nativ*-  of  the  State? — A.  I  was  born  in  Davidson 
County. 

I!\   .M  K'.  I'(»()L  : 

(^>.  \\';is  tlicrr  an  Investigation  into  this  contribution  of  office  expen- 
ses l)y  the  ( 'oiiiiiiissiitner  of  iiiteiiial  iJevenue,  through  an  agent  .* — A- 
Theie  was. 

(,>.   I  lia\e  lielbic  iiif  a  letter   lioiii  (Ireen  I!,  Ilanm,  Commissioner,  to 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    N'ORTH    CAROLINA.  189 

the  Hon.  Cliarles  J.  Folger;  The  same  is  dated  Washiugton,  Jaiiuaiy 
30,  1882,  in  which  this  language  occurs: 

Matters  concerning  certain  contributions  made  by  officers  "of  the  district  for  tlie 
purpose  of  facilitating  the  transaction  of  business  liave  been  investigated  and  passed 
upon.  Tlie  amounts  contributed  for  this  i)urpose  wen-  about  four  huiulreil  dolhirs, 
and  ha\'ebeen  fully  accounted  tor.  As  the  result  of  tlie  in Vfstigation  into  this  matter, 
iiu  additional  allowance  was  nuule  for  office  expenses,  and  tlie  collector  was  informed 
that  the  practice  of  receiving  contril)utions  for  such  a  purpose  was  regarded  witli  dis- 
favor in  my  office,  and  it  has  accordingly  been  disconrinued. 

(^.  Is  that  a  correct  statement  ? — A.  I  think  it  is. 

Q.  As  to  that  amount  ? — A.  1  am  not  certain  as  to  the  amount ;  some-- 
where  in  that  neigiiborhood ;  1  coukl  not  say ;  all  the  papers  were 
turned  over  and  examined  together,  with  C(>h)nel  Brooks  and  myself. 

Q.  Do  you  think  tliat  more  tliau  about  8-tOO  was  collected  for  this. 
l»urpose  t — A.  It  is  over  this  a  small  amount;  I  am  not  certain;  some- 
where between  four  and  live  hundred  dollars. 

Q.  Can  you  state  how  many  illicit  distilleries  and  tobacco  factories. 
Avere  broken  up  by  Dr.  Mott  during  the  time;  do  you  know  how  many  ? — . 
A.  A  great  many  illicit  distilleries;  I  cannot  say  how  many;  I  never  kept , 
that  account  in  the  office;  I  never  examined  the  record. 

Q.  I  have  now  with  me  from  the  same  letter  this : 

During  the  whole  period 

The  Chairman.  What  period  t 

Mr.  Pool.  The  entire  period  from  the  time  he  went  intoithe-ofiice- 
until  February,  1882. 

one  thousand  one  hundred  and  seven  distilleries  and  six  tobacco  factories  were  seized.. 
At  present  the  tobacco-blockading  business  has  practically  ceased. 

In  proportion  as  illicit  distilling  has  been  suppressed,  regular  government  distilleries 
have  been  established,  until  now  the  luiraber  of  registered  distilleries  has  increased 
irom  48  to  359.  This  satisfactory  result  lias  been  brought  about  in  the  face  of  every 
(djstacle  that  could  be  thrown  in  the  way  by  the  illicit  distiller  and  the  tobacco  block- 
ader,  and  the  people  sympathizing  with  them  in  their  efforts  to  defraiul  the  govern- 
ment. 

Public  sentiment,  however,  has  changed  remarkably  within  the  last  three  years, 
and  to-day  the  officers  of  the  government  have  the  almost  unanimous  support  of  the 
district  in  enforcing  the  laws. 

The  system  of  inspections  and  examinations  has  brought  the  office  up  to  the  highest 
standard,  and  the  improvement  in  the  condition  of  the  district  is  equally  gratifying. 

Q.  Is  that  a  correct  statement  ? — A.  I  think  it  is. 
Q.  From  your  observation  and  experience,  you  think  the  Commis- 
sioner has  stated  it  correctly  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Do  you  know  Dr.  Mott's  handwriting  ? — A.  1  think  1  do. 

Q.  Look  at  that,  and  see  if  that  is  his  handwriting  (exhibit  handed 
to  the  witness)  ? — A.  I  do  not  think  it  is ;  it  resembles  it  very  much. 

Q.  Turn  over  and  see  if  that  is  (Exhibit  1-4  handed  to  the  witness)  ? — 
A.  I  do  not  think  that  is;  a  great  many  could  copy  his  handwriting. 

Q.  You  could  not  say  whether  that  was  his  handwriting  or  not  (Ex- 
hibit 10  handed  to  the  witness)  ? — A.  That  appears  to  be  more  like  it; 
I  could  not  .say  on  my  oath  whether  it  was  or  not.  That  looks  a  little 
more  like  it  than  the  other.  I  have  noticed  his  signature  has  a  nervous- 
ness about  the  form  of  the  letters. 

Q.  Look  now  at  that  one  (Exhibit  11  handed  to  the  witness)  ? — A. 
That  don't  look  tome  like  it;  that  ai)pears  to  be  a  little  nearer,  but 
this  "J"  (indicating);  he  never  makes  "J"'  in  that  way. 

Q.  This  is  more  like  his  hand  f — A.  This  comes  a  little  nearer  to  it. 


190  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  You  coultl  uot  be  certain  of  either  ? — A.  Not  certain  that  either  of 
them  was. 

Q.  AYhat  do  you  say  to  that  one  (Exhibit  10  handed  to  witness)  ? — 
A.  I  cannot  think  that  is  his. 

Q.  \Yhat  do  you  say  to  that  one  (Exhibit  17  liauded  to  witness)  ? — A. 
I  cannot  think  this  is  his;  it  is  a  good  imitation. 

Q.  I  will  ask  yon  if  any  of  these  are  his? — A.  On  my  oath  I  coukl 
not  say  that  either  of  them  was  his, 

John  A.  Eamsay  recalled  and  examined. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  I  will  ask  you  as  to  the  signature  of  Dr.  Mott.  You  know 
Dr.  Mott's  signature,  do  you  not;  you  were  his  deputy  a  long  while 
(handing  paper  to  witness)  ? — Answer.  It  is  some  time  since  I  was  fami- 
liar with  it,  and  I  do  not  see  a  very  great  difference  in  any  of  them. 

Q.  Could  you  swear  whether  that  was  his  hand  or  not  f — A.  I  would 
not  like  to  say  positively  whether  that  was  or  not. 

Q.  Could  you  swear  that  one  man  wrote  l)oth  ? — A.  Well,  I  would  be 
inclined  to  think  that  the  same  man  wrote  ])oth,  because  frequently 
there  are  more  changes  than  in  an  ordinary  signatnre.  I  notice  a  little 
heaviness  in  the  pen  in  one  uot  exhil)ited  in  the  other.  The  two  are 
Exhibits  10  and  17. 

Suppose  you  try  these,  Exhibits  13  and  11  (handing  to  witness);  look 
at  both  of  those,  and  see  whether  they  are  in  the  doctor's  handwriting, 
and  if  so,  which  one,  or  whether  one  man  wrote  both? — A.  (Exami- 
ning.) The  same  party  who  wrote  the  others  wrote  thi^,  I  think. 

i).  Have  you  the  same  criticism  as  to  them  that  you  have  made  on 
the  others  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  my  recollection  of  his  signature  is,  that  he 
wrote  a  little  nervously,  and  did  not  form  his  letters  very  regularly. 

Q.  Try  the  other  two  Exhibits,  10  aud  11  ;  what  do  you  say  to  those 
two  (handing-  to  the  witness)  ? — A.  Jnst  about  as  to  the  others  ;  would 
uot  like  to  say  positively. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 
Q.  Do  you  profess  to  be  an  expert  in  handwriting  at  all  ? — A.  I  used 
to  be,  bnt  I  have  uot  given  any  special  attention  to  that  for  some  time. 
Adjourned  until  ^^'ednesday,  July  5,  at  10  a.  m. 


Washington,  Thursdan^  JuJij  7,  1882. 
TIm'  committee  met  at  1  o'clock  p.  m. 
Tlie  following  witnesses  were  examined  in  behalf  of  Dr.  Mott. 

lion.  Thomas  Settlk  sworn  and  examined. 
JJy  :\rr.  Pool: 

(Question.  Where  do  you  reside  ? — Answer.  .Tacksonville,  Fh)rida. 

().  Wlicre  were  you  residing  in  1S70  and  1S78  ? — A.  Greensboro,  N.  C. 

if.  Von  are  tlie  Cnited  ^?tutes  district  judge  for  the  northern  district 
of  I-'Iorida  ? — A.  "\'«'s,  sir. 

().  Ale  you  well  aequaintiMl  with  the  peojde  of  the  0th  colleetion  dis- 
trict of  Nortli  Carolina  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  have  a  very  general  acquaint- 
ance tlii-ougli  that  sec.'tion  of  tlu'  State. 

if.  Are  you  iicquainted  witli  Dr.  ]\lott? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  am  well  ac- 
(piainted  with  Dr.  Mott — for  the  last  twenty  years. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  191 

{}.  Do  you  know  bis  standing  and  cliaracter  as  a  man  ? — A.  1  do. 

().  Please  state  wbat  it  is. — A.  He  is  a  gentleman  of  high  character, 
and,  as  such,  Avell  known  throughout  North  Carolina;  his  cliaracter  is 
as  good  as  any  man's  there. 

(}.  You  have  heard  a  good  deal  in  relation  to  the  collection  of  inter- 
nal revenue  in  that  district  of  which  Dr.  ^lott  is  collector — rei)orts  of 
malfeasance  in  oftice,  and  things  derogatory  to  the  general  administra- 
tion of  the  district,  have  you  not  .' — A.  I  have  seen  the  common  news- 
pajjer  comments  of  the  day. 

Q.  Have  those  reports  affected  his  character  at  all  down  there  ? — A. 
I  think  not,  sir. 

Q.  Will  you  state  along  about  1876,  and  previous  to  that  time,  and  ;i 
year  or  two  after,  when  you  knew  the  district,  and  resided  in  (Treens- 
boro,  whether  there  were  any  obstrnctions  to  the  collection  of  the  rev- 
enue in  that  district  ? — A.  In  what  particular  do  you  mean  '?  There 
were,  in  that  and  other  districts,  when  raids  were  made  on  distilleries — 
there  were  a  great  many  outbreaks  and  outrages — the  otticers  were  re- 
sisted frequently,  and  a  good  many  disturbances  of  that  kind. 

Q.  This  is  a  very  extensive  district,  is  it  not  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  a  very 
large  mountainous  district. 

Q.  State  the  general  condition  of  public  sentiment  in  regard  to  the 
collection  of  revenue,  and  to  revenue  ofrtcials — say  along  about  1S70, 
or  a  year  or  two  i)receding,  and  the  feeling,  if  you  know  it,  in  any  way. 
—  A.  The  whole  revenue  system  is  unpopidar  throughout,  not  only  that 
State,  but  the  South.  The  whole  system  is  quite  unpopular,  you  might 
sjiy  odious,  and  of  course  it  has  l)eeii  denounced  in  very  severe  terms, 
and  the  revenue  officers  are  not  in  good  odor,  as  a  general  thing. 

Q.  I  wish  you  to  state,  in  general,  from  your  observation  in  that  dis- 
trict, whether  there  Avas,  especially  in  the  Cth  district  of  ISorth  Caro- 
lina, and  in  that  section  of  the  State,  efforts  made  to  bring  opprobrium 
and  reproach  uijon  revenue  officers,  the  law,  and  upon  its  execution — 
whether  special  obstructions  were  not  thrown  in  the  way  for  i)olitical 
or  any  other  purpose. — A.  I  don't  know  as  it  was  confined  to  the  6th 
district,  at  all.  For  years,  I  sup])Ose,  in  the  6th,  as  well  now  as  for- 
merly— of  course,  as  I  said,  it  was  a  very  unpopular  law,  and  politicians 
generally  availed  themselves  of  that,  and  one  side  attemi)ted  to  make 
the  other  carry  the  odium  and  the  reproach  of  the  law  and  its  execu- 
tion. This  constituted  a  good  part  of  our  Democratic  friends'  stock  in 
trade — the  denunciation  of  the  revenue  laws  and  the  system — and  the 
officers  were  called  "  nosers,"  and  "  smellers,"  and  so  forth.  I  think 
that  was  the  general  current  of  political  opinion.  They  held  the  Ee- 
publicans  responsible  for  the  revenue  laws  and  their  execution. 

Q.  Were  they  denounced  in  such  a  way  as  to  discourage  officers  in 
the  execution  of  their  duties  ? — A.  They  were  denounced  in  pretty  round 
terms;  called  "nosers,"  "smellers,"  "thieves,"  and  "red-legged  grass- 
hoppers," eating  up  the  vitals  of  the  country.  That  was  the  fact,  not  only 
in  one  place,  but  I  think  the  general  current  of  newspaper  articles  and 
public  speeches.  It  was  in  fact  an  unpopular  law,  and  one  side  made 
the  other  carry  the  odium  of  it. 

Q.  AVas  that  carried  beyond  what  is  usual  in  political  warfare — this 
denunciation  of  the  revenue  law  and  the  officers  ? — A.  I  don't  know  what 
you  would  say  is  "  usual,"  but  it  constituted  a  very  large  portion  of  the 
newspaper  articles  of  the  day,  and  jniblic  speeches. 

Q.  I  mean  was  it  more  usual  there  than  in  other  sections  of  the  country? 
— A.  There  is  no  question  but  that  the  revenue  system  Avas  denounced 


m 


COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 


'out«^d  out, and  the  officers  brouobt  iuto  ridicule,  as  iiitich  iiM  thi^  .speeches 
'and  articles  could  do  so. 

i}.  Was  the  general  course  pursued  by  the  i)oliticians  calculated  to 
raise  a  poi)ular  sentiment  against  the  execution  ot  the  law? — A.  My 
opinion  is  that  it  was;  tbat  the  course  i)nrsued  had  an  ett'ect  to  bring 
the  law  and  the  officers  executing  it  into  contempt  before  the  p('0i)le, 
exciting  opposition  to  the  whole  system.  It  is  unquestionably  an  un- 
popular system  all  through  the  South. 

Q.  I  understand  you  to  say,  then,  that  the  denunciation  of  the  law 
and  the  officers  was  used  for  the  jiurpose  of  political  ends,  and  to  incite 
the  masses  of  the  people  against  the  Eei)ublican  party  ? — A.  It  certaiidy 
had  that  tendency.     I  felt  the  weight  of  it,  I  know,  myself. 

Q.  Were  you  a  candidate  for  governor  yourself  in  North  Carolina? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Were  you  canvassing  tbe  <listrict  ? — A.  I  canvassed  the  district, 
and  made  around  the  State  tifty-six  joint  debates  with  my  friend  who 
sits  on  my  left;  and  several  other  sj^eeches  were  made  on  our  appoint- 
ments. 

Q.  Will  you  state  some  of  the  language  which  was  used,  not  only  in 
your  own  hearing,  but  of  what  you  heard  stump  speakers  generally  say 
— what  were  the  points  they  made? — A.  My  competitor  kept  me  too 
busy  to  look  after  others.  1  had  to  watch  him  very  closely,  so  that  I 
did  not  hear  much  about  others,  I  did  not  hear  any  public  speaking; 
all  I  could  do  was  to  watch  him  and  the  character  of  his  speeches.  Stlill 
everything  was  exceedingly  pleasant  between  ourselves,  and  in  that  le- 
spect  it  did  goo<I  to  the  State,  showing  that  a  joint  canvass  couldi  be- 
conducted  pleasantly,  though  we  did  not  spare  each  other  in  a  legitii^iSkite- 
use  of  the  weapons  at  our  hand,  yet  we  did  not  strike  foul  blows..  My 
friend  had  a  pleasant  and  humorous  way  of  i)utting  his  deuunciabiisus,, 
so  that  he  kept  the  crowd  in  good  humor.  Still  his  denunciations- were- 
very  poiuted,  and  when  we  got  into  the  whisky  country,  my  fri^jd' gen- 
erally had  the  ''  hurrah"  on  me  by  the  whisky  men.  He  had  atpleasiint' 
way  of  i)uttiug  his  j^oints,  which  were  not  as  offensive  as  a  gi^od.many 
articles  I  had  seen  in  the  papers;  he  kept  us  all  in  good  hunjor.. 

(}.  But  still  the  course  of  political  discussion  was  a  denfjuoiation  of 
the  law? — A.  Oh,  yes;  certainly. 

Q.  And  to  ridicule  it  and  the  officers  themselves? — A.  N^.'e>s.sii'-  ^^y 
friend  here  used  to  call  them  "misers,"  and  sometimes  "  redd  egged  grass- 
hoppers," «S:c.;  he  used  to  have  an  apt  way  of  saying  tluiti  these  fellows^ 
ha<l  become  so  ex])ert  that  while  their  horses  were  takiijg.  a, drink  at  tUo^ 
luanch  they  could  telMvhether  there  was  a  distillery  within  a  milb  oir 
not;  and  that  they  could  look  at  a  fellow's  tiacks  in.tha  i^oad  ami  tell' 
wJM'ther  he  was  carrying  a  quart  or  a  two-gallon  jug;;  oi',jfi  they  got  a 
whiff  of  a  fellow's  breath,  they  could  tell  whetlii'r  tlie  dram  he  draidc 
before  bn^akfast  ha<l  l)een  tax-paid  or  not. 

(}.  \\'as  uot  the  usual  course  of  i)olitical  discussJL<;)iniito  bring  discredit 
oil  the  oflieers,  an<l  to  briug  them  into  contempt :-^A.  Certaiidy;  no 
doul)t  about  that,  tliough  some  of  them  were  much  more  violent  with 
articles  and  abuse  than  aii.\  I  heard  myself.  l>ut  the  general  character 
of  the  sj»eeches  in  the  <'ami>aigu  and  the  drift  of  the  newsi>apers  were 
inclined  to  bring  the  whole  syst«'in  into  conte,mi)t  and  disrepute,  ami 
tl^c!  oflicers  into  (tdium. 

Q.  Was  that  not  a  serious  obstruction  to  Dv.  Mott  in  the  administra- 
tion of  liis  oHice? — \.   I  (;annot  say  i»articularly  about  Dr.  .Mott  and  his 
district,  but  in  that  section  of  the;  State  and  in  the  (Ireensboro  district . 
the  (tflicers  weie  fie(|ueiitly  resisted,  and  a  good  many  of  them  shot. 


THE    SIXTJr    DISTRICT  'OF    NORTH    CAKOLIXA.  193 

Q.  The  purpose  of  the  discussiou  and  of  the  newspaper  articles  was 
to  bring  the  revenue  officers,  not  only  into  contempt,  but  to  insult 
them  ? — A.  Well,  I  would  not  undertake  to  say  what  tlu'  i)urp()se  was, 
l)ut  the  tendency  was  that  way. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  The  purpose  was  to  make  votes? — A.  I  think  that  was  one  of  the 
leading-  objects.  It  was  a  very  unenviable  aiul  uncomfortable  positiou 
for  the  revenue  men  to  be  in. 

By  Mr.  1»ool: 

().  It  excited  the  public  against  them  ? — A.  Certainly. 

Q.  Was  it  safe  for  a  revenue  officer  to  go  unattended  and  uiuirmed 
through  that  country  at  that  time? — A.  A  great  many  were  shot. 

Q.  Did  you  think  these  political  discussions  tended  to  incite  the  peo- 
ple to  attack  the  officers  ? — A.  Well,  the  character  of  the  discussions  was 
calculated  to  bring  the  whole  thing — to  make  it  unpopular,  and  the  of- 
ticers  executing  the  law,  unpopular. 

Q.  The  tendency  was  to  encourage  men  to  violate  the  law,  and  to  at- 
tack and  obstruct  officers  in  its  administration? — A.  I  cannot  say  any- 
thing further  than  what  I  have  said;  they  received  all  manner  of  de- 
nunciation. Tliev  were  denounced  even  bv  the  words  "thief  and 
"thieves." 

Q.  Did  Dr.  Mott  meet  this  state  of  things  with  discretion  and  mod- 
eration?— A.  I  think  so.  I  have  always  regarded  Dr.  INIott  as  a  cool, 
deliberate  man,  of  sound  judgment;  that  was  the  light  in  which  I  un- 
derstood him  to  stand. 

Q.  Did  the  officers  generally  behave  with  discretion  and  moderation, 
so  far  as  you  know?  1  am  not  only  speaking  of  what  you  know,  but, 
according  to  the  course  of  this  investigation,  you  can  state  what  you 
have  heard;  that  is,  if  you  have  any  reliance  upon  it.  I  do  not  mean 
any  idle  rumor. — A.  I  suppose  any  officer  attempting  to  execute  that 
law  in  the  section  of  tlie  country  where  I  did  live,  and  farther  west — 
Dr.  Mott's  district — they  were  likely  to  meet  with  opposition,  and  to  in- 
cur danger  in  the  execution  of  their  legitimate  duties. 

Q.  Did  Dr.  Mott  succeed  in  improving  that  state  of  things  ? — A.  1 
think  so,  and  that,  his  management  of  the  district  has  brought  about  a 
change  for  the  better.  1  think  to-day  that  the  system  is  not  so  unpop- 
ular, nor  attended  witli  so  many  difficulties  as  formerly  in  the  execution 
of  the  laws. 

Q.  In  mixing  among  the  peoi^le  you  have  heard  a  good  deal  said 
about  this  collection  of  the  revenue.  I  will  ask  you  whether  there  was 
an  excited  state  of  public  feeling  against  the  execution  of  the  law? — A. 
Oh,  yes;  decidedly  so;  not  only  through  that  campaign,  but  before  and 
since.  A  great  many  men  regarded  it  as  a  legitimate  and  fair  thing  to 
cheat  the  government  in  that  way  as  much  as  they  could. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  men  say  so? — A.  Yes.  It  is  a  common  exprt^s- 
siou  down  there  that  the  government  freed  the  negroes  and  made  them 
poor,  and  anything  that  they  might  get  out  of  the  government  was 
legitimate  and  fair.  I  have  heard  that  sentiment  expressed,  not  on  the 
stump.  I  never  heard  of  any  politicians  giving  vent  to  that,  but  I  have 
heard  the  sentiment  expressed  by  the  liquor  men. 

Q,  Have  you  any  doubt  that  the  political  speeches  of  which  you  liave 
spoken,  have  had  a  tendency  to  bring  the  public  mind  into  that  condi- 
tion?— A.  Of  course  it  was  calculated  to  do  so. 
S.  Mis.  116 13 


194  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Have  you  niiy  doubt  tliat,  iu  point  of  fact,  it  did  not  largely  con- 
tribute in  that  direction? — A.  1  have  no  doubt  that  ni(Mj  by  tliat  felt 
encouraged  to  go  further  than  prol)ably  they  would  have  done  in  resist- 
ing the  law.  1  do  not  say  that  any  of  the  speeches  that  I  have  heard 
were  intended  to  do  such  a  thing,  but  I  say  tliat  the  tendency  of  the 
general  drift  of  politics  was  such  as  to  Ining  the  whole  system  into 
odium. 

Q.  You  did  bear  a  good  niany  slanderous  reports  about  it,  derogatory 
to  the  collection  of  the  revenue  and  its  officers? — A.  Certainly. 

Q.  Were  not  those  reports  i)ut  out  by  politicians  for  a  political  pur- 
pose ? — A.  Why,  of  course.  The  Democratic  party  denounced  the  whole 
system  and  the  officers,  and  the  Kepublicans  had  to  carry  it,  with  all  its 
odium. 

Q.  Were  individual  officers  denounced? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  I 
ever  heard  any  individual  singled  out. 

Q.  The  public  took  up  and  re-echoed  what  was  said  on  the  stump? — 
A.  J  sup]»ose  the  whole  matter  was  unpopular,  and  especially  with  those 
■who  were  in  the  trade,  and  a  large  number  were  so,  directly  or  indirectly. 

Q.  The  point  which  1  want  to  make  clear,  and  I  do  not  know  but  I 
have  already  done  so.  is,  was  this  revenue  law,  its  collection,  execution, 
and  its  officers,  made  a  pointed  subject  of  party  discussion  ? — A.  Cer- 
tainly it  was.    ' 

Q.  For  the  purpose  of  breaking  down  one  party  and  building  uj)  an- 
other ? — A.  Certainly;  I  used,  in  the  debates  I  had  with  my  competitor, 
to  allege  that  there  was  not  a  revenue  officer  seen  until  after  the  war; 
which  war  was  brought  about,  as  I  charged,  by  the  Democratic  party, 
and  hence  the  whole  necessity  of  revenue  officers,  till,  as  I  said,  the 
KepubHcan  party  paid  the  debt  ■which  the  Democratic  party  had  put 
upon  us,  and  then  we  would  see  no  more  of  these  "red-legged  grass- 
hoppers.'' 

i).  Did  you  think  these  slanderous  things  that  were  circulate*!  were 
not  bebeved  by  the  masses  of  the  people,  the  thinking,  good,  substan- 
tial men  ? — A.  I  have  no  doubt  that  Dr.  Mott's  character  has  not  been 
aftecte<l  iti  the  least  degree.  I  understand  that  he  alw^ays  has  been,  and 
is  now,  a  gentleman  of  the  highest  character.  I  have  no  idea  that  his 
character  has  been  affected  at  all ;  perhaps  the  character  of  some  men 
might  ha\-e  been. 

i>r.  MoTT.  I  will  ask  you  if  the  slanders  circulated  over  that  coun- 
try were  not  for  jtolitical  i)urp(Kses,  and  if  they  have  not  grown  up  in 
that  way  until  they  had  become  stereotyped  talk,  and  understood  all 
over  the  country  as  slanders  ;  this  talk  about  revenue  stealing,  ike,  has 
it  not  been  given  out  by  Democratic  speakers  ami  i)oliticians  ? 

The  Witness.  I  thought,  doct(u-,  that  J  had  already  answered  sub- 
stantially tliat  tpu'stion  in  my  statement,  that  uncpu'stionaVdy  the  aim 
was  to  bring  the  whole  system  ami  the  ofli('<'rs  into  odium,  and  it  Avas 
doubtless  sucitesslul  to  a  certain  extent.  The  system  certainly  is  a  very 
unj)o|»ular  one.  I  believe  that  in  the  cam)>aign  it  was  a  hard  load  to 
carry,  and  we  had  to  defend  it  as  a  necessity  at  that  time.  I  sui)iK)se 
the  system  to-da_\  is  uni>opidar,  and  that  unpopularity  has  been  brought 
aboni  liy  tliose  attacks  upon  it.  I  think  it  is  legitimate  and  fair  for  any 
]»ait\  to  attack  a  system,  but  1  do  not  tliiidc  it  legit imati;  and  fair  to 
attack  it  so  as  to  bring  the  officers  into  o<lium  and  df>"g('r,  as  was  done 
in  this  (i^ht  l(»ng  before  that  can\ass  and  since.  This  is  i)art  of  th& 
g<'neral  politics  of  the  South,  and  not  only  of  the  South,  but  of  the 
>.'oilli  also,  the  discmssion  of  the  system  of  i-aising  taxes. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  195 

Cross-examination. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  In  this  assault  and  denunciation  of  the  revenue  system  and  de- 
partment which  you  si)oke  of,  did  not  the  Democratic  six'akcrs  and 
members  have  an  excuse  in  doiiii;'  so  that  the  revenue  (k'partnjcnt  were 
their  active  jioHtical  enemies;  that  is,  they  were  incited  to  do  so  from 
the  fact  that  the  officers  of  the  department  were  very  active  politicians; 
they  did  not  assail  men  simply  because  the  revenue  system  was  uni)()p- 
idar,  as  it  was,  but  it  was  also  because  they  were  political  opixmcnts  '! — 
A.  1  do  not  know  that  I  ever  heard  any  man  singled  out;  the  assault 
was  upon  the  system,  and  growing-  out  of  the  fact  that  the  revenue  men 
were  generally'  Kepublicans  and  very  active  in  their  su])port  of  the 
party,  and  of  course  the  Democratic  speakers  and  pai)ers  felt  it  necessary 
to  break  them  down  in  any  way  they  could,  and  they  resorted  to  the 
arguments  to  which  I  have  alluded  for  that  ])urpose. 

Q.  1  will  ask  you  if  it  is  not  a  fiict  that  the  organization  of  the  Re- 
publican party  was  principally  maintained  by  the  revenue  ofticers ;  that 
they  attended  public  ineetings,  went  as  delegates  to  conventions,  and 
contributed  to  bear  the  expenses  of  the  party  machinery,  and  all 
that? — A.  T  do  not  think  it  was  chielly  sui)ported  by  them;  1  think 
that  the  revenue  officers,  considering  their  numbers,  were  very  active 
supporters  of  the  party  and  contributed  liberally  of  their  means;  bnt 
I  do  not  think  the  Eepublican  organization  was  chiefly  supported  by 
them. 

Q.  Was  not  Dr.  Mott  for  a  considerable  while  the  chairman  of  the 
State  executive  committee  of  the  Republican  party? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he 
was. 

Q.  Of  course  if  he  and  his  officers  took  an  active  part  in  the  campaign 
it  was  fair  for  their  opponents  to  fight  them? — A.  Legitimately. 

Q.  If  they  fought  them  legitimately,  of  course  ? — A.  Certainly. 

Q.  Did  not  a  great  many  of  the  reports  that  were  published  in  the 
newspapers  and  commented  upon  by  speakers  from  the  stump  originate 
from  complaints  of  the  revenue  officers  by  Republicans  as  well  as  Dem- 
ocrats ? — A.  I  do  not  know  about  that.  The  papers  and  speeches  were 
full  of  complaints,  and  T  think  generally  the  complaints  were  from 
Democratic  newsi)ai)ers,  and  probably  from  Republicans  who  were  en- 
gaged in  the  liquor  business;  they  were  not  confined  to  Democrats,  and 
I  guess  some  of  the  Republicans  who  were  engaged  in  the  liquor  business 
comi)lained  also. 

Q.  (,Jf  rough  treatment  on  the  part  of  the  officers  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  I 
suppose  if  they  caught  a  Reijublican  at  a  still,  he  would  complain  as 
loud  as  a  Democrat. 

Q.  A  little  louder,  would  he  not,  as  he  would  think  he  should  have 
some  favor  at  the  hands  of  his  partv  friends? — A.  I  do  not  know  about 
that. 

Q.  What  do  you  know  about  the  system  of  political  assessment  ou 
the  revenue  men  down  there? — A.  Nothing  whatever ;  I  have  heard  that 
the  revenue  officers  contributed,  but  1  never  was  connected  with  any  of 
the  committees,  and  had  no  knowledge  of  its  details.  I  know  nothing 
but  what  is  generally  stated,  but  I  suppose  they  have  been  liberal  con- 
tributors. 

G.  B.  Eyeeitt  sworn  and  examined. 

By  Mr.  Pool: 
Question.  Where  do  you  reside? — Answer.     In  Winston,  Forsyth 
Countv,  North  Carolina. 


196  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Are  you  a  collector  of  internal  revenue  if — A.  Yes,  sir;  of  the  fifth 
North.  Carolina  district. 

Q.  And  adjoiuing  the  sixth  district  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Are  you  acquainted  with  the  sixth  district  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  have 
addressed  meetings  in  the  counties  of  Y^adkin  and  Rowan,  and  have 
been  through  there  several  times. 

Q.  As  a  political  canvasser? — A.  I  went  through  the  district  almost 
entirely'  in  1880,  when  I  was  an  elector  for  the  State  at  large  on  the  Gar- 
field and  Arthur  ticket. 

Q.  "SYill  you  state  generally  the  course  of  politicians  and  stump 
speakers  in  regard  to  the  revenue  and  the  officers  ? — A.  Well,  sir,  as 
has  been  stated,  the  burden  of  the  Democratic  speeches  that  I  heard 
in  1876,  and  all  the  Democrats  that  I  heard  on  the  stump  in  1880,  was 
the  revenue  law — its  oppression  and  degradation  of  the  people  of  North 
Carolina  ;  the  work  and  bad  character  of  the  internal-revenue  officers — 
and  at  last  they  i)romised  to  the  people  that  if  the  Democratic  party 
was  put  in  ])ossession  of  the  government,  that  it  should  be  repealed. 
I  will  state  here,  however,  that  in  1880  tliat  ])roniise  to  repeal  the  act 
was  not  made  as  often  as  in  1876,  from  the  fact  that  it  was  known  to 
the  people  that  the  Democrats  had  an  opportunity  to  do  that  in  1878 
and  1870  and  did  not  do  it.  But  all  the  odium  of  the  law  and  its  un- 
popularity was  dwelt  ui)on ;  such  as  the  seizure  of  a  poor  man's  distil- 
lery there,  and  their  wagons,  and  the  turning  out  of  their  whisky;  the 
going  to  peoi)le's  houses  at  midniglit  and  disturbing  the  women  and 
children.     All  these  things  were  dwelt  ui)on  in  very  vivid  pictures. 

Q.  The  officers  were  denounced  ? — A.  The  English  language  was 
about  exhausted  in  that  way. 

Q.  What  was  the  character  of  the  denunciations? — A.  As  Judge  Settle 
just  remarked,  they  were  called  "  red-legged  grasshoppers,"  "  whisky- 
smellers,"  "spies,"  "revenue  hirelings,"  &c. 

Q.  Were  they  accused  of  stealing? — A.  Certainly  they  were,  sir. 
The  "moiety  system"  in  1868  gave  rise  to  many  of  these  charges.  By 
that  system  the  revenue  officials  were  allowe<l  a  part  of  the  seized  prop- 
erty. That  was  a  very  odious  law,  and  many  revenue  officers  took  ad- 
vantage of  it  and  did  wrong. 

Q.  When  men  were  brouglit  up  in  court  for  violation  of  the  law,  what 
course  was  pursued  towards  the  witnesses  and  prosecutors  ? — A.  When 
luen  Avere  brouglit  before  the  courts  as  witnesses,  the  usual  line  of  de- 
fense was  to  attack  the  character  of  the  government  witnesses  as  much 
as  possible,  and  to  dwell  very  severely  before  the  Jury  upon  their  being 
revenue  officers,  and  it  did  not  make  any  difference  whether  the  jury 
were  liepublicans  or  Democrats,  white  or  black,  these  appeals  had  very 
great  influence  in  deciding  a  case;  and  riglit  here  i  will  state  that  the 
question  of  transferring  cases  from  the  State  courts  to  the  United  States 
courts  where  a  government  <tffi(;ial  had  made  an  assault  and  battery 
upon  a  citizen  or  had  violated  the  State  law  in  any  way,  as  it  was  al- 
leged, created  a  very  bitter  fticiing  all  through  North  Carolina.  It  was 
finally  deci(k',d  by  .hidge  Cox,  and  sustaiiu'd  by  the  supreme  court  of 
Xoith  (^aioh'na,  tiiat  the  transfer  was  legal.  Until  that  was  done  the 
feeling  in  tli(^  Stale  was  very  severe,  especially  in  Western  North  Caro- 
lina. 'J'hey  w<'r(;  alleging  that  the  internal-revenue  officials  aiul  United 
States  marshals  were  outraging  their  fellow-citizens  and  they  (tould  not 
get  justi(;e. 

Q.  W<;re  slanders  of  a  serious  character  circulated  agaiust  the  rev- 
enne  ollicers? — A.  I  cannot  answer  about  that  except  as  I  have  done; 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  11)7 

political  denunciation  of  the  "  wliisky-sincllcrs,"  "gra.sslioppcrs,"  &c,, 
if  that  was  slander,  then  tliey  were  slandered. 

Q.  Were  specific  charges  made  ao-ainst  tLem  ? — A.  1  do  not  think  tliat 
any  special  internal-revenue  officer  was  singled  out.  Tlie  whole  sys- 
tem and  corjis  of  ofticers  Avere  denounced. 

Q.  AVas  anything  said  about  their  dividing  their  pay? — A.  !N'ot  onlj"" 
about  dividing  their  i)ay,  but  alleging  that  tlie  revenue  officers  would 
hire  the  neighl3<>rs  of  blockade  distillers  to  inform  on  them  and  then  di- 
vide their  pay  in  that  way,  by  seizing  the  ])roperty  and  selling  it. 

Q.  And  the  residt  of  it  all  has  been  that  these  slanders  were  put 
abroad  on  the  community? — A.  Certainly;  from  1808  to  1870  it  did  a 
great  deal  of  harm  in  that  State,  but  now  the  charges  are  fully  under- 
stood, as  I  said  just  now.  The  internal-revenue  law  not  having  been 
repealed  up  to  date,  it  is  easier  to  execute  the  law  than  it  was  twelve 
months  ago. 

Q.  I  am  confining  my  observations  to  the  sixth  district. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Was  this  calculated  to  embarrass  the  officers  in  the  discharge  of 
their  duty  ? — A.  It  was  very  much  calculated  to  do  it.  1  should  think 
that  the  collector  of  the  internal  revenue  of  the  sixth  district  from  1808 
to  1876  would  have  found  it  diflticult  to  have  gotten — he  might  have 
done  it — what  I  mean  to  say  is  that  men  of  high  and  influential  char- 
acter would  have  been  deterred  from  going  into  the  revenue  service  on 
account  of  the  trouble  they^  feared  they  would  have  to  stand. 

Q.  Did  Dr.  Mott  finally  succeed  in  getting  a  good  class  of  officers  ? — 
A.  1  can  only  speak  now  in  a  general  way.  I  understand  that  for  the 
last  twelve  months  or  two  years  the  district  is  in  a  first-class  condition.^ 
and  gradually  improving.  The  officers,  so  far  as  I  have  heard,  I  think 
are  as  good  as  revenue  officers  generally  are. 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  standing  of  Dr.  ]Mott  in  that  district  and  else- 
where where  he  is  known  ? — A.  I  do. 

Q.  State  what  itis. — A.  He  is  known,  I  would  say,  as  an  honest,  bold, 
and  independent  man.  His  character  is  as  good  as  that  of  any  geutle- 
uian  or  citizen  in  Western  North  Carolina. 

Q.  Have  tliese  reports  and  slanders  ui)on  his  district  affected  his  char- 
acter at  all  ? — A.  Not  a  particle  ;  I  think  in  the  last  ninety  days  it  has 
helped  him.     That  is  what  I  honestly  believe. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  any  charge  brought  of  malfeasance  in  office  on 
the  part  of  the  doctor  himself? — A.  I  never  have. 

Q.  Nobody  has  been  bold  enough  to  make  the  charge  against  him  ? — 
A.  If  there  has  I  do  not  know  it.  If  I  have  ever  heard  it,  it  has  escaped 
luy  attention.  I  may  have  heard  of  the  general  charges  against  the 
officers  of  the  district  from  a  political  standpoint.  I  have  heard  that; 
but  I  understood  it  as  a  matter  of  course. 

Q.  Is  it  generally  understood  among  the  people  in  that  district,  that 
those  slanders  and  reports  were  put  forward  for  political  purposes,  and 
are  they  believed  or  disbelieved  ? — A.  These  charges  were  used  during' 
a  political  canvass  more  than  at  any  other  time.  As  a  matter  of  course, 
they  are  flying  around  there  through  the  country  nearly  all  the  time. 
But  the  law  was  unpopular  at  that  time,  and  the  revenue  officers  are 
odious  all  the  time,  and  it  was  like  fire  slumbering;  it  blazed  out  again 
about  election  time.  From  1808  to  1870  and  during  the  year  1876  it  had 
a  great  deal  of  influence,  but  in  1880,  as  far  as  I  saw,  I  do  not  think  it 
had  any  influence.  It  might  have  had  some,  but  not  near  so  much  as 
formerly,  and  will  have  less  from  now  on. 


198  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Cross-cxaiuination. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  You  refeired  to  the  deuunciatioiis,  &.(•.,  heaped  upon  the  revenue 
officers  in  1S7() :  you  took  a  part  in  that  denunciation,  did  you  not? — 
A.  I  did  not  make  a  speech  during"  that  canvass. 

Q.  Did  you  not  vote  for  uie  for  governor? — A.  I  did;  and  for  Mr. 
Hayes  for  President. 

Q.  K^otwitlistanding  my  calling  the  revenue  officers  "  red-legged 
grasshoppers,"  &c.  f — A.  I  voted  for  you  principally  on  personal  con- 
siderations, but  I  did  not  hear  you  make  any  speeches.  If  I  had  heard 
you  do  so,  I  am  doubtful  if  1  should  have  voted  for  you. 

i).  You  heard  that  I  had  made  them  ? — A.  Yes,  I  saw  your  speeches. 

Q.  You  say  you  made  no  speeches  yourself? — A.  Ko,  sir;  not  a 
single  one. 

Q.  And  therefore  you  did  not  join  in  the  denunciations  of  the  revenue 
dejjartment  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  say  United  States  witnesses  are  abused  in  the  courts  ? — A. 
A.  Yes,  sir, 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  any  oiher  witnesses  except  revenue  officers 
abused  in  the  courts? — A.  Oh,  yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  have  taken  a  little  hand  at  that  yourself,  have  you  not  ? — A. 
I  have  done  it  myself. 

Q.  And  you  say  it  did  not  make  any  difference  whether  the  jury  was 
blackor  wbite,  Rei)ublican  or  Democratic,  those  appeals  and  that  abuse 
always  had  an  effect  ? — A.  It  did  have  great  intluence,  is  my  candid 
opinion.  Of  course  the  whisky  traffic  in  Western  North  Carolina  per- 
meated all  societies. 

Q.  Now,  Mr.  Pool  had  you  to  say,  speaking  of  these  reports  against 
revenue  officers,  that  they  were  slanders?  Among  others,  was  the 
rumor  of  storekeepers  dividing  their  pay  with  distillers  ;  do  you  regard 
that  a  slander? — A.  Do  I  regard  that  as  a  slander  ? 

Mr.  Pool,  You  are  confluing  him  to  the  sixth  district. 

The  Chairman.  I  suppose  so. — A.  (The  witness,)  I  should  regard  it 
as  a  slander  upon  one  of  my  storekeepers  and  gangers  if  I  heard  of  his 
dividing  his  pay  with  a  distiller. 

Q.  Would  you  regard  it  as  a  slander  on  Dr.  Mott's  storekeepers  ? — 
A.  If  it  were  not  true. 

Q.  Do  you  regard  all  such  reports  as  slanders  about  the  sixth  district? — 
A.  If  the  report  is  true  it  is  not  a  slander.  If  not  true,  I  should  judge 
it  is  slanderous  in  its  nature. 

Q.  Not  whether  it  is  true  or  not  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  <'ver  hear  of  a  reveinu^  agent  by  the  name  of  McLecr"? — 
A.  Yes,  sir  ;  I  have  heanl  of  him  in  the  last  ninety  days. 

Q.  Do  you  know  that  he  has  a  report  here,  made  to  this  dei)artment, 
that  he  Ix'lieves  that  tiiere  was  a  systematic  division  between  the  store- 
keejters  and  distillers  of  the  sixth  district? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  J  lave  you  never  seen  that  report'^ — A.  No,  sir;  I  never  saw  nor 
heard  of  it. 

Q,  Vou  ne\«'r  heard  any  sucii  report  on  Dr.  IMott's  district  ? — A.  Only 
during  the  political  canvass  around  tiie  country. 

Q.  Did  yon  ever  In-ai'  a  leport  of  one  A.  M.  Crane's,  upon  which  Dr. 
Mott  was  onsfed  from  ollict! '^ — A.  I  never  heard  of  (liat,  excejjt  the 
other  day  in  the  Keslh-r  and  l^amsay  in\estiga(ion.  This  took  i)lacc 
in  lH7li,  and  Dr,  Mott,  who  was  removed  i>y  Presi<lent  (Jrant,  and,  after 
it  was  understood,  he  was  leinstated  by  President  Grant. 


THE    SIXTH    DI8TKICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  199 

Q.  Then  you  have  heard  of  bad  reports  on  Dr.  Mott? — A.  1  (juaiitied 
my  answer  Just  now.  Those  that  caine  IVoiii  ;i  ])olitical  quaiter  and 
what  I  liad  heard  the  other  day;  never  before  this  investi.uatiou. 

Q.  The  IJepubliean  party  down  there  in  that  section  of  the  country 
where  you  and  1  live  is  principally  organized  and  run  by  the  revenue 
department,  is  it  not  ?  —A.  1  cannot  answer  your  (piestion  this  way. 

Q.  Answer  it  in  any  way  you  please. — A.  A  j^reat  part  of  the  ma- 
chinery, 1  may  say,  is  looked  after,  and  has  been  looked  after,  by  the 
internal-revenue  ofticials.  In  Dr.  Mott's  district  there  are  thirty-five 
counties.  I  suppose  the  internal  revenue  officials,  in  each  county,  as  a 
general  thing',  being  good  Republicans,  as  a  matter  of  course  they  give 
politics  some  attention. 

Q.  They  get  up  i)ublic  meetings  and  have  delegates  ai)pointed,  &c.! — 
A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not  think  they  do  that,  unless  it  may  be  to  help  some 
personal  fiiend  who  wants  to  be  nominated  for  the  legislature  or  go  to 
the  State  Rej)ublican  convention  as  a  delegate. 

Q.  Do  they  not  furnish  all  the  money  for  party  purposes  in  that 
State  ? — A.  I  cannot  answer  that  question.  1  have  not  furnished  any 
myself,  nor  any  of  my  officers. 

Q.  In  times  ])ast? — A.  In  times  past  I  su[)pose  they  furnished  quite 
a  smart  amount  of  money. 

Q.  Do  you  think  it  unfair,  if  the  revenue  officers  engage  a(;tively  in 
politics,  for  the  Democrats  to  assail  them  and  make  all  out  of  them  they 
could  t — A.  I  do  not  think  it  unfair  to  make  all  that  is  honest  and  legiti- 
mate out  of  the  men  whom  we  know  to  be  corrupt  and  unfaithful  offi- 
cials; but  I  do  think  it  unfair  to  hold  up  a  system  and  a  whole  i)arty, 
aud  officers  irrespective  of  [)ersons,  to  odium  and  public  coiitem[»t  and 
scorn. 

Q.  If  you  disapproved  of  the  law,  how  would  you  act  to  get  it  repealed 
excei)t  by  o])erating  on  the  public  in  that  way  ? — A.  The  law,  of  course, 
is  a  question  of  i)rinciple;  but  I  am  speaking  now  more  directly  of  hold- 
ing up  the  charactei-  of  revenue  officers,  without  any  exception,  to  pub- 
lic scorn  and  contempt. 

Q.  If  a  revenue  office  is  a  public  office,  it  belongs  to  the  people,  and  if 
a  collector  or  an  officer  uses  that  for  the  success  of  one  i)arty  and 
against  the  other,  is  not  that  a  ])erversion  of  his  office  ? — A.  It  is  not  a 
perversion  of  his  office  to  give  as  much  money  out  of  his  salary"  as  he 
pleases  to  maintain  his  party  and  principles. 

Q.  Not  to  use  his  position  in  traveling  all  over  the  country  election- 
eering for  his  party  I — A.  If  he  did  not  ueglect  his  official  duties  to  do 
that. 

Q.  If  he  did  not? — A.  Then  I  hold  he  has  as  much  right  to  work  for 
his  party,  for  his  principles,  as  any  one,  provided  he  first  attends  to  his 
official  duties. 

Q.  That  is  your  opinion,  that  a  public  officer  is  justified  in  doing  all 
this  for  his  party  and  his  principles,  and  making  use  of  his  office  for  that 
purjjose? — A.  He  must  first  attend  to  his  official  duties. 

Q.  There  is  a  certain  power  aud  influence  attending  the  possession 
of  office  ? — A.  There  is  an  infiuence  that  goes  out  from  him. 

Q.  If  an  officer  exercises  that  power,  directly  or  indirectly,  to  compel 
his  sulx)rdinates  to  pay  money  in  for  political  pur})oses,  is  not  thar  ai 
perversion  of  his  office  ? — A.  I  think  that  would  be,  if  he  would  com- 
pel a  man  to  do  it ;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Suppose  he  merely  requests  the  man  to  do  it  who  is  in  his  i»o\ver ; 
do  you  look  upon  that  as  a  contribution  voluntarily  made  in  obedience 
to  that  request  f — A.  I  think  I  should  do  it,  sir. 


200  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    EEVENUE    IX 

Q.  You  look  upon  that  as  voluntary,  if  a  man  is  entirely  dependent 
iijion  yon,  and  he  could  be  removed  by  you  at  any  moment;  if  he  should 
.subscribe  money  at  your  rc<jucst,  would  you  look  upon  that  as  ])nrely 
vobmtary  1' — A.  The  storekeei)er  iind  ganger  cannot  be  removed  by  the 
collector.     I  have  to  give  good  otticial  cause  to  get  him  out. 

Q.  I  state  it  again.  If  a  subordinate  ofticer,  who  was  entirely  in  the 
l^ower  of  his  superior  oflicer,  and  who  could  be  removed  by  him  at  any 
moment,  on  any  pretext  satisfactory  to  that  superior,  would  you  regard 
a  contribution  made  by  that  inferior,  at  the  rcipiest  of  his  superior,  a 
voluntary  gift  ? — A.   I  should,  sir. 

(^>.  Is  Dr.  Mott  on  your  otticial  bond  ! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  How  much  did  he  justify  for  o]i  that  bond  f — A.  I  think  he  justi- 
iied  for  *o,j,OUO. 

Q.  Who  else  is  on  your  bond,  if  you  can  remember  ? — A.  I  think  I 
can  state  them  all.     Dr.  Mott,  Colonel  Cooper 

Q.  Thomas  X.  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  J.  A.  McCauley,  and  others.  I  have 
a. justified  bond  of  $300,000.     I  was  only  required  to  give  $200,000. 

Q.  ^Yllat  do  you  know  on  this  subject  of  political  assessments? — A. 
I  do  not  know  one  thing.     j\Iy  experience  is  brief. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  how  nuu'li  was  raised  by  contributions  upon  the 
revenue  oflflcers  of  iSlorth  Carolina  in  1880? — A.  Xo,  sir;  I  cannot  tell 
you.     I  have  no  idea. 

Q.  Do  you  raise  them  regularly  in  your  department? — A.  I  have  not 
raised  one  penny  so  far. 

Q.  Have  you  been  requested  by  the  national  executive  committee  to 
levy  contributions? — A.  No,  sir;  I  have  niot.  1  have  received  a  card 
from  Mr.  Hubbell  that  he  Avould  be  pleased  to  receive  a  contribution, 
and  I  shall  send  it  on  in  a  few  days.  1  do  not  know  what  my  other 
men  have  received. 

Q.  Did  Mr.  Hubbell  ask  you  to  communicate  with  all  your  officers? — 
A.  No,  sir;  he  has  not  said  one  word  to  me  on  that  subject,  directlj'  or 
i  n  di  recti  V. 

Q.  AYho  is  chairman,  now,  of  the  executive  committee  of  the  Repub- 
lican partv  in  Is'orth  Carolina? — A.  Dr.  Mott,  I  think,  was  elected  in 
July,  1880. 

Q.  Did  you  attend  the  Chicago  convention  in  1880? — A.  No,  sir;  I 
did  not  go  there. 

(^  Were  you  not  a  delegate? — A.  No,  sir;  I  was  not  a  delegate  to 
any  convention  in  1880.  Y"es,  sir;  I  was  a  delegate  to  the  Republican 
State  convention. 

Q.  Were  you  not  an  officer  then  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  Avere  not  collector  then? — A.  No,  sii';  1  have  attended  no 
<'on\'ention  at  all  sim-e  I  have  been  a  collector. 

Q.  Vou  know  nothing  of  the  oi)eration  of  attairs  in  the  sixth  district 
now,  do  you? — A.  No,  sir. 

IJy  iMr.  Pool  : 

(}.  Vou  were  asked  regar«ling  the  rejiorts  of  some  revenue  agents. — 
A.  Mr.  McLeer,  Senator  Yancc  asked  ma  about. 

(^,  These  were  agents  sent  out  by  the  (lei)artnient? — A.  Ry  the  de- 
partment al  Washington. 

i).  Do  not  llicsc  agents  report  everything  they  lu'ar — all  rumors,  and 
everything  of  that  kind  that  thev  can  scrape  \i\)t — A.  Tiiat  has  been 
my  «'.xperienee  (tf  them. 

Q.  Do  they  rejtoit  things  j'egai<lless  of  whether  they  are  true  or 
false.' — A.   I  think  they  have  reported  a  goo<l  many  false  things  some- 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  201 

times.  Ill  other  words  1  meau  to  say,  that  a  revenue  a<>ent  sent  out  by 
the  department  here  at  \Vasliin,i,^ton  is  extremely  exact,  ]>nnctilions,  and 
technical,  much  more  so  than  1  would  be  in  a  rei)ort  on  my  ofticers; 
they  report  things  that  I  would  not  report. 

Q.  Do  not  they  hunt  up  and  scrape  nj)  every  thin<;'  that  they  can,  from 
liearsay  and  otherwise? — A.  I  have  had  a  little  experience  in  the  mat- 
ter in  the  last  thirty  days  in  the  counties  of  Person  and  Alamance,  in 
that  State.  There  have  been  six  revenue  ajients  makinjLi' a  circuit  of 
my  distilleries  down  there.  One  aj^ent  would  go  to  a  distilkuy,  exam- 
ine it,  and  find  a  stop-cock  out  of  ])lace,  or  a  ])i|)e  not  painted,  and  the  next 
week  another  one  would  come  to  the  same  distillery,  and  would  find  some 
other  irregularity,  sometechni(;ality.  Tlie  next  would  conuMU  lik(i  man- 
ner, and  just  before  I  came  to  Washington,  in  the  last  thirty  or  forty 
days,  six  of  them  had  been  around  there.  That  is  the  way  they  rake 
and  scrape  everything  np. 

Q.  Does  it  not  seem  to  be  their  object  to  make  their  reports  as  large 
as  possible,  so  as  to  make  capital  for  themselves  1 — A.  As  a  matter  of 
course,  if  they  did  not  do  much  work  they  would  not  get  the  $120,000 
that  is  appropriated  to  keep  them  going,  and  they  therefore  do  all  the 
work  they  i)0ssib]y  can  do  in  order  to  keep  in  favor  with  the  authorities 
at  Washington. 

Q.  Do  they  not  scrape  up  every  floating  rumor,  and  every  slanderous 
charge  ? — A.  They  iiivestigate  everything,  in  the  hope  of  discovering 
some  violation  of  law. 

Q.  And  they  put  it  in  their  reports,  that  come  uj)  here  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  say  Dr.  Mott  was  removed  by  General  Grant  upon  the  re- 
l)orts  of  these  officers  f — A.  That  is  what  I  hear  since  I  came  here. 

Q.  But  upon  an  investigation  of  the  correctness  of  these  reports  he 
was  restored  ? — A.  That  is  what  I  understand  relative  to  this  Kestler 
and  Ham  say  matter. 

Q.  If  you  go  into  the  office  of  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue, 
and  examine  the  reports  of  these  agents,  how  much  reliance  would  you 
put  upon  them  ? — A.  Unless  f  knew  an  agent  personally,  aud  have  some 
official  experience  and  intercourse  with  him,  I  should  not  put  any,  or 
very  little. 

Q.  This  is  because  of  your  knowledge  of  their  reporting  things  whether 
they  are  true  or  false  ? — A.  Just  as  I  say.  The  knowledge  of  their  raking 
and  scraping  uj)  every  technical  violation  of  the  law,  and  hunting  up 
every  thing. 

Dr.  Mott.  They  give  hearsay,  and  anything  they  get  about  the  coun- 
try from  anybody,  and  put  it  down  and  send  it  on  here. 

The  Witness.  They  have  their  private  informers  in  my  district.  They 
have  them  about  these  distilleries  to  see  if  there  is  any  violation  of  the 
law.  I  am  very  free  to  confess  that  they  do  more  than  anybody  else  to 
make  the  revenue  law  uni)opular  in  the  South. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  The  chairman  asked  you  if  recjuests  were  made  by  the  collector 
upon  such  subordinate  officers,  that  were  entirely  in  his  power,  to  make 
contributions,  and  the  contributions  having  been  made,  whether  you 
consider  it  voluntary.  I  will  ask  you  what  subordinate  officers  are  en- 
tirely in  his  power.  Are  the  storekeepers  and  gaugers  in  his  power? 
— A.  No,  sir  ;  they  cannot  be  punished  by  the  collector,  or  removed  by 
him. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  officers  that  are  in  his  power? — A.  I  do  not 
think  there  is  one  entirely  in  his  power.     The  regulations  say  the  col- 


202  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    EEVENUE    IN 

lector  shall  not  remove  one  of  his  deputies  without  giving?  good  reasous 
to  the  luterual  Revenue  Commissioner  for  doing  so. 

By  Senator  Mitchell  : 
Q.  The  selection  of  deputies  is  in  his  power? — A.  Yes,  sir,  when  they 
first  come  in  ;  but  he  cannot  remove  them  himself  without  writing  to  the 
Commissioner  and  giving  his  reasons  therefor. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  You  said  contributions  for  political  purjioses  by  these  officers  were 
voluntary-  ? — A.  I  did,  sir.  I  regard  one  of  my  deputy  collectors  just 
as  much  of  a  gentleman  as  I  am,  and  entitled  to  do  with  his  pay  what  he 
l)leases.  I  certainly  would  be  transgressing  my  ideas  of  propriety  as  a 
gentleman  if  I  should  tell  him  what  I  wanted  him  to  do  or  did  not  want 
him  to  do  about  it. 

Q.  Y'^ou  say  you  have  not  received  any  request  from  any  party  to  make 
assessments  on  your  deputies  ? — A.  No,  sir  ;  not  one. 

Q.  The  letter  that  you  received  from  Mr.  Hubbell  was  as  to  a  personal 
contribution  by  yourself! — A.  A  personal  letter  to  me,  simply  stating 
that  he  would  be  glad  to  receive  from  me  a  contribution. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Y"ou  say  the  collector  cannot  remove  a  storekeeper  and  ganger? — 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  He  can  give  him  work  as  he  pleases? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  So  he  would  stand  with  his  commission  in  his  pocket  without  any- 
thing to  do  ? — A.  The  collector  can  keep  from  assigning  him  to  duty. 

Q.  That  puts  him  somewhat  in  the  collector's  power  as  to  his  i)ay,  does 
it  not  ? — A.  To  a  certain  extent  it  does  ;  but  it  does  not  entirely,  because 
sometimes  the  collector  may  be  forced  to  assign  him  to  duty  because  he 
cannot  get  new  ones  appointed. 

Q.  And  he  can  remove  his  deputies  on  representing  to  the  Commis- 
sioner sutticient  cause  for  doing  so  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir  ;  that  is  my  interpre- 
tation of  the  regulations. 

(.).  When  you  were  describing  these  revenue  agents,  you  said  you 
would  not  i)ut  a  bit  of  dependence  in  what  they  said  unless  you  knew 
them  personally  ? — A.  I  said  I  would  not  put  much,  on  account  of  the 
technical  character  of  their  reports. 

Q.  A  nd  that  they  raked  and  scraped  around,  inquiring  into  everything 

techni(;al,  &c.,  and  would  jump  on  a  man  if  the  pipes  of  his  still 

— A.  \\'ere  not  i)aint('d,  and  the  stojvcocks  out  of  order,  &c. 

Q.  Is  that  not  very  much  the  lim^.  1  followed  in  1876,  when  I  talked 
about  the  hardship  the  people  had  to  endure  from  them  f — A.  Yes,  sir; 
but  yon  did  not  contine  your  ri^narks  to  the  revenue  agents;  you  at- 
tacked the  system  from  the  highest  to  the  lowc^st. 

Q.  I  ask  you  a  gencnal  (piestion,  if  there  was  not  a  general  feeling  in 
the  countiy.  I  ask  for  the  facts,  if  it  was  not  so — a  general  feeling 
among  the  ])eoi)Ie  of  our  country  that  the  revenue  officers  were  oppress- 
ive to  llic  ix'oj)]*',  and  carried  things  with  a  high  hand  ;  that  th(\v  would 
jump  on  a  fellow  and  lu'caU  iiini  all  up  for  a  slight  and  trivial  cause? — 
A.  Tlicrc  wasa  feeling  of  that  (character,  but  it  was  not  m  hat  I  would  call 
an  oiigin;il  fei^ling.  It  was  what  I  would  call  a  feeling  introduced  and 
riiltivaled  hy  polilicji!  speakers  on  tlu"!  stiini]).  if  the  peo]>le  had  been 
a<l\ised  to  obey  the  law  and  do  the  best  tlu\v  could  with  the  otlicers, 
though  they  might  he  thicixcs  and  scoundrels,  they  would  not  have  got 
inl<»  the  li-oul)le  jukI  crime  that  they  <lid. 

<).  i>oyou  notlhiiik  thiscriticism of theirconduct,thiscontinual watch- 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  203 

ing,  had  a  tendency  to  keep  them  within  bounds,  and  make  them  behave, 
as  they  saw  they  were  watched  very  closely? — A.  As  f  said,  the  great 
trouble  Avas  chieU^^  there  during  the  political  canvasses,  and  they  were 
not  watched  and  talked  about  much  when  it  was  going  on. 

Q.  Was  it  not  charged  that  they  would  go  around  and  make  raids 
more  often  just  before  election  time? — A.  That  is  what  the  Democratic 
speakers  charged.  The  rule,  I  think,  \vasthe  very  reverse.  Just  before 
an  election  raids  were  not  made,  in  order  not  to  stir  u|)  strife. 

Q.  Was  it  not  charged  that  the  marshals  wouhl  fill  their  pockets  with 
blank  warrants,  and  when  they  came  across  a  man  whom  they  thought 
ought  to  be  arrested  they  would  take  one  of  them  out  and  juit  his  name 
in  it! — A.  Under  the  Douglass  dynasty  that  was  said  in  tlie  campaign 
speeches. 

Q.  Did  you  know  whether  there  was  any  foundation  for  that  or  not  ? 
A.  I  do  not  think  there  was  any  foundation  for  that  charge — about  their 
going  around,  especially  before  an  election. 

Q.  Was  it  not  charged  that  if  a  Republican  fell  into  the  hands  of  the 
revenue  officers  he  got  off  a  heap  easier  than  a  Democrat '? — A.  That 
might  have  been  said  ;  I  think  it  was  said. 

Q.  Was  it  not  charged  that  a  great  many  Democrats  accused  of  vio- 
lating the  law  fell  into  the  hands  of  the  Republicans,  compromised  by 
changing  their  politics  and  paying  the  costs  f — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  know  any  instances  where  that  was  charged? — A.  Not  of 
my  own  personal  knowledge.  I  do  not  know  of  any  man  who  changed 
his  politics  in  that  way. 

Q.  You  have  heard  of  cases  where  that  was  alleged '  to  have  been 
done  ? — A.  1  think  I  heard  the  general  allegation. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  In  regard  to  assigning  storekeepers  and  gangers,  was  it  not  the 
custom  to  keep  just  as  many  storekeepers  and  gangers  as  there  were 
distilleries  in  the  district  ? — A.  I  said  while  the  collector  had  the  assign- 
ment of  the  storekeeper  and  ganger  in  his  hands,  and  could  give  him 
work  or  not,  as  he  wanted,  frequently  he  was  compelled  to  do  it  on  ac- 
count of  not  having  enough  storekeepers  and  gangers  to  do  the  work ; 
that  the  collector  had  generally  as  many  storekeepers  and  gangers  as 
he  had  distilleries  in  operation ;  and  sometimes  a  collector  might  not 
want  to  give  a  storekeeper  and  ganger  work,  but  had  to  do  it,  as  he  has 
BO  other  man  to  give  it  to.     That  is  my  experience. 

Q.  Were  they  in  the  collector's  power  to  any  serious  extent  ? — A.  I 
take  it  u])  one  way  and  down  the  other,  and  cannot  say  to  any  serious 
extent.  The  collector  might  embarrass  him — keep  him  out  of  work 
twenty  or  thirty  days ;  but  in  the  course  of  time,  if  the  distilleries  re- 
mained in  operation,  he  would  have  to  give  him  work. 

Q.  If  all  the  distilleries  were  running  he  would  be  obliged  to  give 
them  all  work  ? — A.  Certainly  he  would  have  to  do  it.  I  have  had  to 
give  work  to  men  that  I  did  not  want  to  give  work  to. 

D.  A.  Ramsay  sworn  and  examined. 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  Where  do  you  reside  '? — Answer.  Salisbury,  X.  C. 

Q.  What  is  your  occupation  ! — A.  Storekeeper  and  ganger. 

Q.  In  the  testimony  of  Mr.  Kestler,  he  stated  that  he  knew  one  reve- 
nue oflflcer  who  said  he  was  compelled  to  pay  an  assessment,  and  men- 
tioned your  name  as  the  one.     Will  you  state  whether  yon  were  ever 


204  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

compelled  to  pay  an  assessment  for  political  purposes  or  not? — A.  I 
never  have  been ;  I  never  so  stated  to  Mr.  Kestler,  nor  to  any  one  else. 
I  never  liave  received  any  notice  except  here  recently  from  Mr.  Ilubbell, 
and  that  was  just  before  I  came  on  to  AVashington  City.  1  have  given 
assessments  and  have  paid  them,  but  never  have  been  forced  to  do  such, 
a  thing  in  my  life,  and  never  so  stated  to  Mr,  Kestler. 

Q.  AVas  every  contribution  yon  ever  made  for  paity  purposes  entirely 
voluntary  ? — A.  It  always  has  been.  1  consider  it  a  matter  of  business 
and  principle  to  do  so. 

Q.  ])o  you  know  Mr.  Kestler? — A.  William  H.  t 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  I  have  known  Mr.  Kestler  ever  since  1871, '72,  or '7.3,. 
along  there. 

Q.  You  reside  in  the  same  town  Avhere  he  does,  do  you  ? — A.  He  does 
now,  but  did  not  some  time  ago.  He  left  there  for  about  a  year,  but 
came  back  last  year. 

Q  Do  you  know  his  character  ? — A.  I  think  I  know  his  character  tol- 
erably well. 

Q.  You  know  the  estimate  in  which  he  is  held  in  the  community  in 
which  he  resides? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

().  Please  state  it.— A.  Mr.  Kestler  is  a  barkeeper — keeps  a  bar-room — 
there  in  Salisbury.  1  have  never  heard  anything  against  his  truthful- 
ness and  veracity  as  a  man  ;  but  he  has  no  standing  socially  in  the  town 
at  all,  neither  he  nor  his  family. 

Q.  Is  he  a  man  of  bad  repute  in  the  community  in  which  he  lives? — 
A.  He  is  considered  a  man  of  loose  habits;  morally,  his  habits  are  not 
good.  I  don't  know  how  to  answer  the  question  hardly.  I  never  heard 
iiis  truthfulness,  or  anything  like  that,  ever  brought  into  question. 

Q.  Is  he  held  in  lespect  in  that  community? — A.  I  do  not  think  he  is, 
sir. 

Cross-examination  by  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  So  far  as  you  know,  Mr.  Kestler's  character  for  truthfulness  is 
good  ? — A.  So  far  as  I  know. 

Q.  Being  a  barkeeper,  he  has  no  social  position? — A.  No  social  posi- 
tion. 

(}.  You  say  you  look  upon  this  pajiug  assessments  as  a  matter  of 
business? — A.  A  matter  of  business  and  a  matter  of  principle. 

Q.  You  were  holding  office  at  the  hands  of  the  government  and  were 
call(Ml  ui)on  to  contril)ute  something  towards  the  sup])()rt  of  the  ])arty  ? — 
A.  I  was  not  called  upon.  I  gave  it  of  my  own  free  will  and  accord, 
withcMit  ever  having  been  solicited,  and  never  received  any  intimation. 

(}.  How  did  you  come  to  do  it? — A.  I  have  held  a  government  ofiice 
for  a  long  lime,  and  always  made  contributions,  but  just  ])rior  to  the 
i'Uiction  in  isso  I  liad  a  conversation  with  Dr.  Mott,  who  was  then  collec- 
t<»r  of  11m;  district,  and  Avho  expected  to  be  chairman  of  the  Kepublican 
State  committe*'.  I  believe  he  was  on  his  way  then  to  Raleigh,  and  as 
we  were  sjK'akingof  the  prospects  of  the  party  in  the  State  and  all  that,, 
an<l  what  amount  of  money  jnobably  could  be  raised,  or  would  be  raised, 
or  somctliiiig  like  that,  in;  Just  remarked  that  he  ex])ected  the  ma- 
jority of  llie  n)oney  that  would  be  raised  for  the  canvass  would  be  raised 
in  the  sixth  district;  that  he  did  not  lliink  the  friends  in  the  other])arts 
of  the  Stale  were  going  to  contribute  like  they  ought  or  could.  J  Just 
Hiiri|ily  aske<l  him  alxml  what  ]»er  cent,  did  he  tliink  would  be  ai)pro- 
priate  for  an  olTKu-r  to  give  to  helj)  the  canvass  along,  and  I  think  he 
said  S  or  10  p«'r  «'enl.     That  was  the  only  c(m\ersation  we  had. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  205 

Q.  That  was  in  1880  ?— A.  That  was  in  1880,  in  the  Garfiehl  cam- 
paign. 

Q.  How  mnch  did  you  give  on  that  occasion? — A.  I  gave  my  clieck. 
Do  not  remember  wliether  it  was  1 108  or  104. 

Q.  Was  it  a  month's  salary  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  a  mouth's  salary.  1  always 
gave  that,  even  when  I  was  connected  with  the  Post-Office  Department, 
in  a  Presidential  election. 

Q.  That  was  twelve  per  cent.,  or  a  little  over  twelve  per  cent.,  of  your 
salary  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q,  How  did  it  happen  that  you  were  not  officially  called  on  like  the 
others? — A.  I  cannot  tell  you. 

Q.  Because  you  had  already  subscribed? — A.  I  do  not  know  how  that 
is.  I  think  they^  got  my  August  check.  Probably  I  gave  the  order  to 
Dr.  Mott  to  pay^  the  check  over  to  the  chairman  of  the  Republican  State 
committee. 

Q.  You  are  a  storekeeper  and  gauger? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Where  were  you  assigned"? — A.  To  J.  B.  Lanier's  distillery,  near 
Salisbury,  K  C. 

Q.  Who  was  the  storekeeper  and  gauger  previous  to  you ;  whom  did 
you  succeed  t — A.  I  succeeded  Mr.  Summers;  he  was  sent  there  tempo- 
rarily. 

Q.  Which  Mr.  Summers? — A.  I  think  it  is  P.  F.  Summers. 

Q.  Who  immediately  preceded  him  ? — A.  A.  L.  Heilig. 

Q.  Who  preceded  him? — A.  I  think  Mr.  Bruner  was  the  first  store- 
keeper. Then  the  next  storekeeper  was  Mr.  Mock,  and  then  Heilig, 
Summers,  and  myself. 

Q.  How  long  did  these  men  that  preceded  you  stay  there  at  that  dis- 
tillery?— A.  I  cannot  tell  you. 

Q.  They  did  not  stay  long,  did  they? — A.  I  do  not  think  Bruner  nor 
Mock  staid  there  long,  but  think  Heilig  staid  somewhere  from  July  or 
August  until  say  about  the  first  of  March. 

Q.  Four  or  five  months? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  why  these  men  who  preceded  you  did  not  stay  there 
longer? — A.  iSTo,  sir;  except  Heilig.  He  was  found  absent  from  his 
distillery  by  a  revenue  agent  and  removed. 

Q.  And  what  had  taken  place  Avhen  he  was  absent? — A.  I  do  not 
knoAV  anything  about  that. 

Q.  Was  it  not  said  that  a  double  mash  was  in  the  tubs  ? — A.  I  do  not 
know  how  that  was.  I  do  not  think  thej  were  mashing,  if  I  remember 
correctly. 

Q,  Wliile  you  were  there,  were  any  improper  proi)Ositions  made  to 
you  by  the  distillers  to  divide  your  pay,  or  anything  of  that  sort? — A. 
No,  sir. 

Q.  Had  there  been  anything  of  that  sort  that  you  had  heard  of  with 
3'our  predecessors  ? — A.  Nothing  I  ever  heard  of. 

Q.  Where  was  Heilig  when  the  <listillery  was  found  without  him? — 
A.  I  think  he  was  at  home.  He  says  he  was  sick.  He  lived  about  10 
miles  below  Salisbury. 

Q.  How  far  from  the  distillery  ? — A.  About  12  miles  from  the  distil- 
lery^.    The  distillery  is  2  miles  from  town. 

Q.  And  the  distillery  was  going  on  and  he  not  present ;  that  was  the 
reason  for  his  discharge? — A.  That  was  what  I  heard. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  about  another  allegation  of  storekeepers 
dividing  their  pay  with  distillers? — A.  1  know  nothing  but  what  I  have 
heard  through  reports  that  they  did  such  a  thing  ;  what  I  have  seen  in 
the  newspapers.    I  never  knew  anything  of  my  own  knowledge. 


206  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Could  you  give  the  names  of  distillers  or  storekeepers  who  were 
said  to  do  that  thing? — A.  I  never  heard  any  specific  person  mentioned. 

Q.  Do  you  know  why  Mr.  Bruner  left  that  «Tistillery  ? — A.  I  know 
nothing  more  than  what  I  heard.  I  heard  he  left  on  personal  grounds; 
that  the  distiller  asked  for  another  storekeeper ;  that  he  did  not  like  Mr. 
Bruner,  as  a  man. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  there? — A.  1  went  there  in  March;  two 
or  three  years,  with  an  interregnum  of  about  four  months. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Do  you  know  Mr.  William  M.  Walker's  general  cliaracter  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  I  think  I  do. 

Q.  What  is  it? — A.  He  is  a  man  of  high  character  in  every  way^ 
shape,  and  form;  a  man  of  truth,  and  a  gentleman  in  every  way. 

By  the  ChairmA]?^: 

Q.  Does  he  not  keep  a  bar-room? — A.  Not  that  I  know  of.  He  lives: 
in  Statesville. 

Q.  Does  he  not  sell  liquor  there,  when  not  engaged  in  official  duties — 
keei)s  a  bar  or  something  of  that  kind? — A.  I  do  not  know.  I  never 
have  heard  that.     He  might. 

Q.  Have  you  not  heard  of  his  being  indicted  in  the  State  courts  for  a 
A'ery  disgraceful  thing ;  insulting  ladies  at  a  camp  meeting? — A.  I  do  not 
believe  I  have.     I  might  have,  but  do  not  believe  I  ever  heard  it,  sir. 

Q.  Here  is  the  language  used  by  Mr.  Kestler  (quoting): 

Q.  Did  yon  ever  hear  of  bis  (Dr.  Mott's)  levying  political  assessments? — A.  I  have,, 
sir. 

Q.  Did  yon  know  that  that  is  forbidden  by  law? — A.  I  have  "heard  so,  sir;  one  man 
uAd  nif  he  took  a  month  of  his  salary  for  political  assessments.  An  officer  told  me 
ti>at,  out  of  his  own  mouth. 

Q.  Who  was  that? — A.  Allen  Ramsay,  a  storekeeper.     A  cousin  of  John  A. 's,  I  think. 

The  Chairman.  He  did  not  use  the  word  "compelled''  to  pay  the 
assessments. 

J.  M.  Gray  sworn  and  examined. 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  AA^liere  do  you  reside  ? — Answer.  Statesville. 

Q.  are  you  conue(;ted  with  the  revenue  service? — A.  I  am  not  now. 
1  was  until  about  four  or  five  months  ago. 

Q.  How  long  were  you  connected  with  it? — A.  Since  October,  1873. 

(^.  Do  you  know  the  general  character  of  the  officers  connected  with 
the  service  around  your  section  f — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  I  do. 

Q.  Especially  in  Davie  County  ;  that  is  your  native  county  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  Will  you  state  what  their  cliaracter  is? — A.  Their  character,  I 
tliink,  is  good — generally  of  the  officers  of  Davie  County. 

(}.  Arc  they  as  respectal)le  as  any  men  in  the  county? — A.  [  think 
so. 

i).  Yon  have  heard  rcpnrfs  (tithe  slanders  made  against  the  levenue 
ollicris  (»r  your  dislrict.  Iia\(*  you  not? — A.  Yes.  sir;  1  have  heard 
tliciri. 

(}.  Do  yon  kiioM-  wlicllier  tlici'e  was  any  truth  in  any  (»f  them  t — A. 
I  do  not  know  that  llicrc  is  any  trulii  in  tliem  of  my  own  knowh^dge. 

(}.  Do  you  know  of  any  instance  ol'  tlieir  dividing  pay  with  the  dis- 
tillers ? — A.   I  do  not,  sir. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  20 T 

Q.  Of  course  you  have  heard  reports  of  that  kind? — A.  Yes,  sir:  I 
have  heard  reports  of  that  kind. 

Q.  You  have  been  assigned  to  a  good  many  different  distilleries? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  T  have  been  to  a  good  many  in  Uavie  County,  some  in  Yad- 
kin, and  some  in  Iredell. 

Q.  Have  yon  any  knowledge  of  any  storekeeper  dividing  with  the 
distiller  ? — A.  2^one  in  the  w(n'ld. 

i).  Did  you  ever  divide,  yourself,  with  a  distiller  ? — A.  Never  have. 

Q.  Ever  approached  for  the  purpose  of  being  induced  to  do  it  ? — A. 
Xever  have  been. 

Q.  Is  the  service  in  that  district  improved? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think 
there  has  been  a  geat  deal  of  improvement  since  I  went  into  the  serv- 
ice— a  decided  improvement.  When  1  first  went  in  a  gotMl  many  looked 
upon  revenue  ofticers  as  if  they  were  not  very  resi)ectable;  that  is,  by 
a  certain  class  of  people. 

Q.  Has  the  general  state  of  public  feeling  improved  in  rej^ard  to  the 
revenue  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Cross  examination. 

By  the  Chatr:man  : 

Q.  You  swear  that  all  the  otticers  that  live  in  Davie  County  were 
men  of  good  character? — A.  Yes,  sir;  good  character  so  far  as  I  know. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  anything  against  any  of  them  at  all  f — A.  No, 
sir;  I  do  not  think  I  heard  any  one  of  them  singled  out. 

Q.  You  never  heard  of  any  officer  in  Davie  County  against  whom  one 
thing  was  charged  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Past  or  ju-esent  ? — A.  I  may  have  heard  through  the  newspapers, 
or  something  that  way. 

Q.  Where  was  Lanier's  distillery? — A.  That  was  in  Davie. 

Q.  Was  not  Mr.  Heilig  discharged  from  there  for  improper  conduct? 
— A.  I  do  not  know.     I  heard  he  was. 

Q.  Then  you  heard  something  against  one  revenue  officer? — A.  I 
think  you  asked  me  of  Davie  County. 

Q.  I  did.  You  say  Lanier's  distillery  is  in  Davie  County  ? — A.  In 
Rowan  County  now. 

Q.  Yon  said  Davie  Count}'  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  How  many  distilleries  are  there  in  Davie  County? — A.  There  are 
a  good  many;  I  suppose  between  40  and  50. 

Q.  Do  you  know  W.  M.  Walker? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  State  the  character,  if  you  know  it,  that  he  sustains  in  that  com- 
munity where  he  lives. — A.  I  think  his  character  is  good. 

Q.  You  have  heard  him  spoken  of  frequently  by  other  people  ? — A. 
I  do  not  know  that  I  have  heard  it  trequently. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  known  him  ? — A.  For  a  good  many  years;  I  do 
not  remember  exactly  how  long;  ten  or  twelve  years — probably  longer. 

Q.  During  that  time  you  have  known  people  with  whom  he  has  as- 
sociated in  the  community  in  which  he  lives? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  they  say  his  character  is  good? — A.  Yes,  sir;  his  character 
is  good. 

Q.  How  long  were  you  in  the  service  t — A.  I  went  in  in  October,. 
1873,  and  I  have  been  in  since  that  time  up  to  six  months  ago. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  Were  you  about  Statesville  much? — A.  I  have  been  about  there 


208  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

for  the  last  six  inoiitlis.  My  fanuly  have  been  living-  there  for  three 
years. 

Q.  Does  Walker  sell  liquor  and  beer  there! — A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not 
think  he  does  now. 

Q.  ^Yhen  did  he  quit  it  ? — A.  1  do  not  know  that  h«'  really  did  sell 
there.  I  heard  some  say  he  did,  and  others  that  he  was  not  connected 
with  it.     I  cannot  say  that  he  sold  any  at  all. 

Q.  You  heard  it  said  that  he  was  interested  in  a  saloon  there? — A. 
Interested  in  a  beer  saloon  ;  yes,  sir. 

The  following  witnesses  were  called  for  the  government : 

J.  F.  Hellen  sworu  and  examined : 
By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  Where  do  yon  reside  ? — Answer.  Winston,  X.  C 

Q.  Are  you  now  connected  with  the  internal-revenue  service  ? — A.  I 
am  not,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  been  ? — A.  I  was  up  to  about  a  year  ago. 

Q.  How  long  were  you  in  the  revenue  I — A.  About  three  years. 

Q.  In  what  capacity  f — A.  I  had  charge  of  the  "  Bonded  spirits  ac- 
count "  in  the  collector's  oftice  of  the  tifth  district. 

Q.  In  that  capacity  there,  did  you  acquaint  yourself  thoroughly  with 
the  workings  of  the  system  f — A.  I  think  I  did.    I  endeavored  to  do  so. 

Q.  1  want  to  get  some  information  from  you  in  relation  to  the  duties, 
&c.,  of  general  storekeepers.  Will  you  describe  what  their  duties 
are  ? — A.  The  duty  of  the  general  storekeeper  is  to  have  charge  of  a 
warehouse  containing  spirits,  where  the  distillery  has  suspended.  He 
may  be  in  charge  of  one  or  more  of  these  bonded  warehouses. 

Q.  What  do  you  mean  by  being  in  charge  of  a  bonded  warehouse;  he 
does  not  stay  there  all  the  time  ? — A.  Not  unless  the  wareliouse  con- 
tains over  two  thousand  gallons  of  spirits,  then  his  duty  is  to  remain  at 
the-  warehouse  constantly.  Otherwise,  where  the  quantity  is  less  than 
that,  he  should  visit  the  warehouse  once  a  month;  and  it  is  his  duty  to 
go  there  and  put  the  stamps  on  the  whisky  when  tax  paid,  and  deliver 
it  to  the  owner. 

Q.  If  the  owner  wants  to  withdraw  it  from  bond  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Who  carries  the  keys  of  that  house  ? — A.  The  general  store- 
keeper. 

Q.  And  no  one  can  enter  it  without  his  permission  ? — A.  No  one  can 
enter  a  waiehouse  under  his  charge  without  his  permission. 

i).  Can  any  one  else  go  and  discharge  these  duties  for  him,  of  withdraw- 
ing, stamping,  and  tax  paying  licjuor  ? — A.  He  cannot  designate  a  man 
to  go  to  one  of  these  warehouses  and  withdraw  the  spirits,  but  the  col- 
lector can  desiginiti'  any  other  general  st<u'ekee]>er  to  do  that  in  case  of 
emergency  ;  or  if  the  storekee]>er  who  had  it  in  charge  was  not  pres- 
ent, or  away  on  other  duty,  and  it  was  necessary,  in  order  to  deliver  the 
spirits  to  the  distiller  or  owner,  to  have  it  done  at  once. 

Q,  Now,  for  instan<;e,  if  a  distiller  wanted  to  withdraw  a  barrel  of 
whisky  from  bond,  when  he  was  under  suspension,  could  the  general 
storekee])er  tell  some  other  storekeeper  and  ganger  to  go  and  do  that 
for  him  t     \\(»iild  that  be  lawful? — A.  1  think  not. 

(f.  Who  would  ha\ (^  to  do  that,  himself  or  sonuA  other  ))erson  specially 
designated  by  t  he  collector  to  do  it  '! — A.  Some  other  general  storekeeper 
would  ha\e.  to  be  designated  by  the  collector. 

(f.  According  to  the  laws  and  regidations,  can  a  de[>Uiy  collector  act 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLIXA.  209 

as  j4iiii<;oi',  and  receive  pay  Jbr  botli  oftices  at  tlie  same  time? — A.  Xo, 
sii-;  a  tlepiity  collector  cannot  bold  two  otbces  at  the  same  time. 

(^.  It  was  said  in  excnse  for  a  nmn  who  di-ew  ])ay  as  deputy  collector 
and  ganger,  that  it  was  done  in  the  fourth  district;  have  you  any  knowl- 
edge of  any  such  system  in  the  fifth  district ;  was  such  a  thing  done  in 
that  district  while  you  were  connected  with  it? — A.  Not  that  I  know  of. 
Q.  How  are  the  deputy  collectors,  special  deputies,  gangers,  store- 
keepers, general  storekeepers  and  all  subordinate  oflicers,  i)aid  ? — A. 
They  are  paid  per  diem,  on  an  account  made  out  at  the  end  of  the  month. 
The  storekeepers  and  gangers  and  the  general  storekeei)ers  are  ])aid  for 
the  number  of  days  they  are  employed  by  the  collector.  The  dei)uty 
colletor  is  paid  by  the  month. 

Q.  Is  that  i)ayment  in  cash  or  by  a  check  ? — A.  It  is  the  custom  now 
to  pay  them  Avith  a  check.  Each  oifl(;er  receives  his  check  covering  a 
month's  payment  at  the  end  of  the  month,  or  as  soon  after  as  con- 
venient. 

Q.  What  bank  is  that  check  upon  ? — A.  In  our  district  it  is  on  the 
depository — the  First  Xational  Bank  at  Winston  is  designated  a  United 
States  depository ;  before  that  occurred  I  think  we  did  business  with 
liichmond. 

Q.  Have  they  any  depository  in  Raleigh  or  Charlotte  ? — A.  1  do  not 
know,  sir. 

Q.  What  does  the  collector  do  with  the  money — when  he  receives  it  ? 
— A.  For  taxes  ! 

Q.  Yes  ? — A.  The  money  he  receives  for  taxes  is  required  by  law  to 
deposit  in  the  depository  each  night;  or  at  least  when  we  had  the  de- 
pository in  Eichmond  we  had  to  put  it  in  transit,  and  get  a  receipt  for  it 
that  night. 

Q.  You  start  it  to  the  depository  that  same  night  ? — A.  We  start  it. 
Q.  The  collector  has  no  authority  to  keep  money  on  hand  to  disburse, 
even  for  necessary  purposes? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  The  money  has  to  go  to  the  United  States  depository,  wherever  it 
is,  in  that  district  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  All  moneys  have  to  be  paid  out  in  checks  on  the  depositor}^,  and 
not  in  cash? — A.  The  money  which  the  collector  disburses,  is  not  the 
money  which  he  receives  for  taxes;  that  is  put  in  the  depositor3\  The 
money  Avhich  he  disburses  is  sent  to  him  by  check  from  the  Treasury 
Department,  which  goes  to  the  depository,  and  is  drawn  upon  for  sala- 
ries, &c. ;  it  is  a  separate  and  distinct  transaction  entirely. 

Q.  Did  yon  know  anything  about  the  system  of  political  assessments 
in  the  sixth  district  ? — A.  I  know  very  little  about  it.  I  know  men  who 
have  been  asked  to  contribute  to  the  cause,  and  have  contributed. 

Mr.  Pool.  Are  you  speaking  about  the  fifth  ? — A.  I  am  speaking 
about  the  fifth,  not  the  sixth  ;  I  don't  know  anything-  about  it. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Did  you  know  anything  about  the  alleged  practice  of  storekeepers 
dividing  tlieir  pay  with  distillers  ? — A.  No,  sir  ;  I  have  heard  those  ru- 
mors, but  I  do  not  know  anything  about  it — not  a  thing:. 

Q.  You  have  heard  rumors  of  that  kind  ? — A.  I  have  heard  rumors, 
yes,  sir.  I  do  not  suppose  there  is  anybody  in  the  western  part  of  the 
State  but  what  has. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  there  has  beeu  an  improvement  in  the  revenue 
department,  and  in  the  feeling  of  the  people  towards  it,  and  if  illicit  dis- 
tilleries have  become  less,  and  frauds  on  the  government  have  been  di- 
minished in  that  part  of  North  Carolina  ! — A.  Blockading  has  diminished 
S.  Mis.  IIG 14 


210  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

very  iiiateiially  since  I  went  tliere,  four  years  ago,  and  I  think  the  feel- 
ing also  Las  improved. 

Q,  Wliat  do  you  attribute  tliat  to  ? — A.  I  think  you  can  attribute  it 
to  the  better  understanding  of  the  law,  and  also  to  better  management, 
l)ossil)ly,  on  the  part  of  the  officers.  I  think  a  good  deal  can  be  attrib- 
uted to  better  management  on  the  part  of  the  officers.  They  are  learn- 
ing constantly. 

Q.  Has  the  character  of  the  officers  improved  latelj"  ?  Is  there  a  bet- 
ter class  of  men  in  the  service  ? — A.  I  think  as  long  as  I  was  in  the 
service  the  class  of  officers  was  improving.  1  have  not  known  much 
about  it  since. 

Q.  Did  the  action  of  the  Federal  courts,  granting  amnesty  to  those  who 
confessed  their  sins  and  took  out  licenses,  have  an  effect  to  diminish 
illicit  distilling  ? — A.  I  only  get  that  from  report.  I  am  not  familiar 
enough  with  the  question  at  that  time  to  make  such  a  decision  myself  as 
to  it.  I  think  it  liad  very  little  effect.  I  do  not  think  it  amounted  to 
much. 

Q.  I  am  not  speaking  of  the  sixth  district,  I  am  speaking  generally. — 
A.  I  am  speaking  generally.  Of  course,  all  the  information  I  have  was 
from  the  tiftli  district. 

Q.  What  was  the  percentage  of  the  cost  of  collection  in  the  fifth  dis- 
trict when  you  were  connected  with  it  ? — A.  1  think  it  was  in  the  neigh- 
borhood of  3^  per  cent.,  possibly. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  it  was  in  the  sixth  district  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  According  to  the  rei)orts  of  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue 
it  was  54  per  cent. — A.  I  had  never  noticed  that  until  the  progress  of 
this  investigation. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  you  have  sufficient  knowledge  to  state  if  the  sixth 
district  is  a  worse  one  to  manage  than  the  fifth  ? — A.  I  have  not  any 
knowledge;  nothing  to  guide  me  in  that;  my  impression  is,  as  it 
stretches  over  a  larger  territory,  of  course,  it  is  more  difficult  to  manage; 
and  it  is  a  more  mountainous  region  than  that  of  the  fifth,  and  more 
()l)l)ortuniti('S  present  themselves  for  blockading. 

i).  In  that  it  is  a  mountainous  region,  and  covers  a  larger  space  of 
territory,  it  is  a  more  difficult  region  to  manage  than  the  fifth  f — A. 
Yes,  sir, 

Q.  ilow  is  it  in  the  character  of  the  population? — A.  I  think  the 
character  of  the  poi^ulation  is  similar,  though  I  have  never  been  over 
only  a  small  portion  of  the  sixth  district ;  but  I  think  the  class  of  people 
is  about  the  same. 

Q.  Are  you  a  native  of  that  country  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  born  and  raised 
in  that  State. 

Q.  What  county  ? — A.  I  was  born  in  Carteret  County,  and  raised  in 
Craven. 

Q.  J  low  long  have  you  been  a  resident  in  the  part  of  the  State  in 
which  you  now  live  ? — A.  Four  years  next  September. 

(  ross-cxamined  by  Mr.  Pof)L: 

().  How  long  were  you  connected  with  the  revenue  service  ? — A.  About 
three  years. 

Q.  (N)mm<;ncing  when  ? — A.  S(!pteMd)er,  1878,  I  think. 

i}.  You  said  that  under  the  law  a  storekeeper  cannot  also  be  a 
de|»uty  ? — A.  That  was  my  und(;rstanding  of  it. 

i).  Is  it  not  a  regulation  instead  of  a  law? — A.  Is  it  not  a  regula- 
tion '! 


THE    SIXTH    DLSTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  211 

{}.  Yes;  a  d('i>aitineiit  regulation  ?  — A.  Yes,  sir;  it  is  a  regulation 
I  refer  to. 

Q.  You  (lid  not  mean  that  it  is  a  statute  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

i^.  Do  you  know  when  that  regulation  was  made? — xV.  I  do  not. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  the  regulations  were  on  that  subject  in  1872-'73, 
and  along  there  f — A.  1  had  nothing  to  do  with  the  revenue  service  at 
that  time,  and  in  my  studies  never  took  that  question  up. 

Dr.  MoTT.  In  regard  to  the  duties  of  general  storekeepers,  do  you 
know  they  have  divisions  ? 

The  Witness.  Yes,  sir. 

Dr.  MoTT.  A  certain  number  of  distilleries  to  attend  to,  and  that  fre- 
•quently  they  are  scattered  over  a  considerable  extent  of  country — some- 
times several  counties.  A  storekeeper  would  probably  have  a  call  to 
take  out  whisky  at  two  or  three  points  at  the  same  time  in  his  division. 
Did  you  know  that  these  whisky  men  always  want  to  sell  directl}'  on  an 
order  ? 

The  Witness.  Y^es,  sir. 

])r.  MoTT.  And  that  it  would  be  a  great  hardship  for  them  if  they 
had  to  wait  from  time  to  time  for  the  storekeeper  to  visit  the  difterent 
sections,  and  probabh'  lose  a  transaction  in  their  business  through  that 
waiting  ? 

The  W^iTNESS.  Y^es,  sir.  I  said  in  answering  the  question  before  that 
I  considered  it  was  the  privilege  of  the  collector  to  designate  a  party  to 
go  and  attend  to  a  case  of  that  kind.  I  do  not  think  a  general  store- 
keeper himself  has  a  right  to  designate  any  one. 

Mr.  MoTT.  I  want  to  make  it  appear  why  it  would  be  necessary  for 
the  general  storekeeper,  in  that  condition  of  things,  to  send  some  one 
€lse  in  his  place. 

The  Witness.  I  know  it  is  frequently  done.  They  have  to  go  to  other 
than  their  own  warehouses. 

Dr.  MoTT.  And  it  is  done  for  the  accommodation  of  the  distillers  ? 

The  Witness.  Y^es,  sir. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Can  he  not  designate  another  one  to  go,  with  the  consent  of  the 
collector? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  would  be  the  same  as  the  collector  desig- 
nating him. 

Q.  He  could  designate  one  if  the  collector  consented "? — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  That  would  be  the  collector's  designating  him. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  With  regard  to  disbursements,  has  not  the  collector  a  right  to 
keep  the  money  that  is  given  to  him  for  the  purpose  of  paying  his  offi- 
cers wherever  he  pleases  and  disburse  it  from  wherever  he  pleases  ? — 
A.  I  cannot  say  that  I  consider  that  so,  from  the  fact  that  it  has  been 
the  custom  of  the  fifth  district  always  to  deposit  the  check  we  received 
from  the  Secretary  of  the  Treasury  in  the  depository. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  of  any  regulation  requiring  that  to  be  done  ? — 
A.  I  cannot  recollect  any  regulation ;  no,  sir. 

Q.  Has  not  the  disbursing  officer  the  right  to  pay  his  money  from 
wliere  he  pleases  under  the  regulations  ?  Does  he  not  give  his  bond  for 
it? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  gives  a  bond  for  it,  but  whether  he  has  a  right  or 
not  to  pay  it  as  he  j)leases  I  cannot  say ;  I  am  not  well  enough  acquainted 
w^ith  the  regulation  in  regard  to  that  matter. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  The  statute  gives  the  force  of  law  to  the  regulations,  which  are 
made  to  carry  out  the  law,  does  it  not  ? — A.  I  i)resume  so. 


212  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    KEVEXUE    IN 

T.  K.  Bruner  sworn  and  exainiued. 
By  the  Chairman: 

Question.  Where  do  you  reside  ? — Answer.  Salisbnry,  ^N".  C 

Q.  Have  you  been  at  any  time  connected  with  the  internal-revenue 
service  in  North  Carolina? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  From  when,  to  when? — A.  I  was  appointed  division  deputy  to 
take  effect  trom  August  1,  1878 ;  I  acted  as  division  deputy  until  Janu- 
ary 1,  1879,  at  which  time  I  was  appointed  a  storekeeper  and  gauger. 

Q.  Where  were  you  first  assigned  as  storekeeper  and  ganger? — A. 
At  John  AV.  Miller's,  in  Eowan  County. 

Q.  How  long  did  you  stay  at  his  distillery  ? — A.  1  think  about  a 
month  and  a  half;  some  time  about  the  niiddle  of  February  I  left  his 
place. 

Q.  Why  did  you  leave  ? — A.  Well,  sir,  there  was  considerable  trouble 
between  him  and  myself  in  regard  to  the  business.  He  found  he  was 
falling  back  and  desired  to  catch  up,  and  wauted  me  to  allow  the  mashing 
of  more  meal  than  the  law  allowed  him  to  use. 

Q.  Just  explain  all  that  took  place  between  you. — A.  It  is  quite  a 
little  story.  He  had  been  after  me  for  sometime ;  I  had  been  refusing, 
and  finally  one  day  he  broke  out  with  very  violent  exclamations,  and 
said  he  would  turn  out  all  the  beer  in  the  distillery  if  I  did  not  allow 
him  to  do  it. 

Q.  Did  you  allow  him  to  do  it? — A.  I  have  forgotten  the  number  of 
bushels  in  the  mash  that  he  wanted  to  put  in  to  catch  up. 

Q.  The  law  did  not  allow  him  to  do  that  ? — A.  No,  sir;  the  law  did 
not  allow  it;  he  wanted  to  do  it  without  my  reporting  him.  I  refused 
to  allow  him  to  do  so,  and  he  refused  to  mash  any  further.  He  abused 
me  a  good  deal  at  his  house  that  evening,  and  in  fact  run  me  off"  about 
sundown. 

Q.  Did  he  suspend  ? — A.  He  did ;  yes,  sir.  I  boarded  at  another  man's 
liouse  for  the  four  days  following  to  finish  out  what  was  in  his  distillery, 
and  he  sus])ended. 

i}.  How  long  did  he  stay  suspended  ? — A.  I  don't  think  he  ever  ran 
again.  Another  Miller  bought  his  interest.  I  told  Dr.  Mott  most  of 
the  circumstances  connected  with  this,  and  1  think  Miller  was  cognizant 
of  that  fact,  and  don't  think  he  ever  applied  for  another  storekeeper: 
but  there  was  a  change  made,  and  they  ran  from  the  time  of  the  new 
change. 

Q.  What  became  of  you  then  ? — A.  Then  I  was  assigned  to  Nash's,  in 
Davie  County. 

Q.  How  long  did  you  stay  there? — A.  I  staid  there  a  month  and  three 
days. 

Q.  ^\'lly  (lid  you  leave  there? — A.  Troubles  of  the  same  character 
forc<'d  me  awav  from  there.  I  was  importuned  from  the  first  at  that 
j)la<!e  to  allow  double  maslu^s  and  th(^  introduction  of  extra  tubs,  or  to 
divide  ])ay.  Tlie  man  told  me,  just  before  I  left  him,  that  had  been 
his  (ralcidation,  and  that  it  was  the  general  rule  of  the  country;  that 
e\'(;ry  storeI<ee|K'r  did  that,  and  that  unless  1  did  it  he  would  have  to 
(jiiil;  he  felt  he  was  a  ''broke;  man." 

Q.  That  was  the  giMieral  rule  ol'the  country,  lu3  said? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  he  say  tiiat  any  other  storekeejter  had  done  so  for  him  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  lie  liad  been  blockading,  and  tin;  revenue  oflicers  had  caught 
him  aiul  seized  what  lie  had.  ^Vilen  1  went  there,  there  were  two  bar- 
rels in  the  wiirehonse  that  1  liad  to  tak«M'hargc  of — that  had  been  seized 
bv  Dr.  M<itt's  ()(heers.      I  got  instruct  ions  from  the  oHice  what  to  <lo  with 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    XOKTH    CAROLINA.  213 

tbeiii,  but  lu' told  inctliat  wastlie  (iustoin  and  lie  had  builtiiis  distilleiy 
for  it,  and  failiii.i;-  in  that  he  felt  vt  ry  imich  hurt,  and  he  thought  it  was 
my  duty  to  allow  that. 

Q.  Ue  had  been  caught  blockading  and  built  his  distillery  for  that 
purpose? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  was  what  he  said.  He  had  a  beer  well  in 
there,  wliieh  he  said  the  government  allowed  hiai  to  use.  I  told  him 
certainly  he  could  use  it ;  it  was  a  very  large  one,  and  I  showed  him  how 
it  was  to  be  used.  He  objected  that  that  would  not  do  him  any  good  ; 
he  did  not  care  to  put  his  beer  into  this  well  and  to  put  it  into  the  stills 
again ;  he  wanted  a  double  mash  and  to  use  the  well  as  a  receptacle 
for  his  beer. 

Q.  What  was  the  object  of  his  wanting  to  ns(^  the  beer  well  'I — A.  So 
as  to  get  in  more  beer  than  the  law  allowed  him.  1  refused  to  allow  hiin 
to  use  the  well,  and  he  insinuated  that  the  government  allowed  hini  to 
ha\e  a  well  for  that  purpose;  that  that  was  the  way  they  were  used  in 
that  section. 

Q.  AVliat  was  the  result  of  it  ? — A.  I  was  very  much  troubled  about 
it,  and  had  written  Dr.  Mott  a  letter,  which  I  did  not  send  because  I  met 
his  deputy,  ^Mr.  ])wire,  and  got  some  advice  fromhiui,  and  continued  in 
my  course  until  he  suspended. 

Q.  He  suspended  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  did  he  stay  in  suspension  ? — A.  I  don't  know  sir.  I  don't 
think  that  he  ever  ran  again  ;   not  that  I  know  of. 

Q.  Where  did  you  go  from  there? — A.  From  there  I  think  it  was  to 
Mr.  Lanier's,  in  Rowan  County,  who  was  just  starting. 

Q.  How  long  did  you  stay  with  him  ? — A.  Al)Out  a  mouth. 

Q.  How  came  you  to  leave  him  ? — A.  He  did  not  like  me,  he  told  me. 
I  think  possibly  he  notified  Dr.  Mott  that  he  did  not  like  me  personally, 
and  desired  a  change;  and  I  did  not  like  my  place  there,  and  so  I  ap- 
l^lied  for  a  change. 

Q.  AVho  took  your  i)lace? — A.  I  think  ^\r.  Mock  took  my  place. 

Q.  Were  not  propositions  made  to  you  by  him? — A.  By  Lanier?  No, 
sir;  no  propositions,  but  he  issued  some  orders,  and  I  countermanded 
the  oiders. 

Q.  What  were  his  orders? — A.  The  distiller  told  me  he  had  ordered 
him  to  put  in  more  meal.  I  told  the  distiller  if  he  did  I  would  lock  him 
up  and  take  the  keys  to  Statesville. 

Q.  Y^ou  left  there  in  consequeuce  of  that? — A.  That  occurred  about 
two  weeks  after  I  went  there — that  he  issued  these  orders  and  I  counter- 
manded them;  he  wanted  to  know  "what  in  the  hell  I  meant  by  that"? 
I  tod  him  "that  was  my  duty."  A  short  time  after  that  he  told  me  he 
did  not  like  me  personally,  and  wanted  me  to  leave. 

Q.  And  you  left? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  went  to  Dr.  Mott  and  got  him  to 
change  me  to  Lowe  &  Arey's.  These  gentlemen  had  over  two  thou- 
sand gallons  of  spirits  in  their  warehouse  and  were  not  running.  I 
staid  with  them  until  they  drew  out  below  two  thousand  gallons,  and 
then  I  was  idle  for  several  months.  My  next  appointment  was  to  Mc- 
Culloh's,  in  Davie  County. 

Q.  Wliat  took  place  there  ? — A.  I  got  along  pretty  well  for  the  first 
two  months.  They  asked  me  to  allow  them  to  increase  the  mash  and 
to  have  the  key  of  the  cistern-room.  Of  course  these  requests  were  re- 
fused, and  one  morning  early  in  May  Mr.  Spry,  who  was  the  backVjone 
of  the  institution,  came  to  me  and  demanded  8100. 

Q.  What  for? — A.  To  tax-pay  some  whisky. 

By  Mr.  Pool: 
Q.  To  loan  him  $100? — A.  No,  sir;  he  just  demanded  it;  he  told  me 


214  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

he  wanted  $100.  I  told  liim  I  could  not  ^ive  it  to  liim;  the  law  did 
not  allow  me  to  give  liim  any  assistance  whatever,  but  I  had  a  friend 
who  was  a  banker  in  Salisbury,  and  that  if  he  gave  good  real-estate 
security  I  could  put  him  in  a  way  to  get  that.  He  said  he  did  not  want 
to  pay  any  interest  on  it,  but  that  he  wanted  to  get  it  from  me.  I  told 
him  I  could  not  let  him  have  it.  Then  he  told  me  he  intended  to  quit 
and  would  not  run  his  distillery  any  more. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Unless  you  would  let  him  have  the  hundred  dollars? — A.  Unless 
I  would  let  him  have  the  hundred  dollars.  I  did  not  do  so,  and  in  con- 
sequence he  stopped.  Just  after  stopping  he  got  some  one  to  send  a 
complaint  to  the  ofidce  to  the  effect  that  I  had  been  so  careless  as  to  allow 
forty  gallons  of  whisky  to  leak  out,  and  I  suppose  at  the  same  time  he 
made  application  for  a  new  storekeeper.  He  got  a  new  storekeeper  di- 
rectly after,  and  went  on. 

Q.  Whom  did  he  get  ? — A.  A  man  named  Jones. 

Q.  He  suspended  to  get  rid  of  you  I — A.  I  should  say  so  ;  it  looked  so. 

Q.  Did  you  inform  the  collector  of  these  things'? — A.  I  don't  think  I 
informed  the  collector  of  these  affairs  there ;  they  seemed  to  me  to  be 
personal  between  the  distiller  and  myself.  I  knew  the  collector  was  al- 
ready burdened  with  as  much  as  he  could  attend  to,  and  that  there  was 
no  use  to  inform  him,  and  so  I  did  not. 

Q.  How  long  did  he  stay  suspended  ? — A.  Possibly  two  or  three  weeks, 
or  a  month;  until  he  could  make  new  arrangements. 

Q.  And  then  he  ran  right  on  f — A.  I  suppose  so.  I  resigned  the  serv- 
ice just  after  that.  It  was  the  beginning  of  the  campaign  of  1880  ;  I  re- 
signed in  June. 

Q.  Were  you  called  on,  while  in  the  service,  for  political  assess- 
ments?— A.  I  got  a  circular  from  this  city — the  committee  in  this  city — 
asking  me  for  a  contribution. 

Q.  You  mean  the  national  executive  committee  of  the  Eepublican 
l)arty? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  receive  that  directly  from  head(piarters  here,  or  from  the 
office  ? — A.  1  think  that  came  directly  from  Washington  City. 

Q.  How  much  were  you  called  upon  to  contribute  ? — A.  Xo  anujunt 
was  stated.  1  tliinic  it  did  state  that  he  hoped  it  would  not  be  less  than 
twenty-live  dollars,  or  something  of  tliat  sort. 

(}.  Did  you  respond  ? — A.  I  did  not. 

(^).  ^Vhen  was  that  ? — A.  I  received  two  ;  the  last  one  I  received,  ])os- 
sibly,  was  in  .\.i)ril,  1880.  1  have  forgotten  when  the  other  was  received. 
I  liave  received  one  since  I  left  the  service. 

(^.  Wliat  do  you  know  about  political  assessments  levied  upon 
others? — A.  Nothing,  except  it  was  generally  said  that  they  were  levied 
and  collected. 

(}.   Vou  know  nothing  of  your  own  personal  knowledge? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  An;  you  acquainted  witli  tlie  general  character  of  William  H. 
Kesth'r  ? — A.  I  su|»i)ose  so.  He  used  to  live  in  our  town  then;  some- 
times. He  lias  been  coiKbictiiig  a  saloon,  and  is  considcre*!  an  orderly 
man,  and  a  man  of  character  so  far  as  truth  is  concerned.  I, have  had 
business  dealings  witii  him  iind  olliers,  and  he  has  always  met  his  obli- 
gations. 

(.).  lie  is  c(»nsi(iere(l  a  truthful  man  ^' — A.  Yes,  sir.  A  saloon-kee])er, 
of  course,  makes  no  pi<'tence  to  social  standing,  or  anything  of  that 
kin<l.      lie  is  counected  iu  luisiiiess,  lioweAcr,  with  one  of  our  moneved 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  215 

men,  and  at  present  is  running  a  restaurant  and  saloon  together  in  the 
hotel. 

Q.  Is  he  connected  with  any  business  man  of  character  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  with  Luke  Blackinar  and  Mr.  Frerchs. 

Q.  Mr.  Blackmar  is  a  lawj^er  of  high  standing,  is  he  not? — A.  Yes. 
sir. 

Q.  Mr.  Frerchs  is  one  of  the  moneyed  men  in  that  place  ? — A.  Yes  sir. 

Cross-examination  by  Mr.  PoOL: 

Q.  You  have  resided  in  Salisbury  for  some  length  of  time  f — A.  All 
my  life. 

Q.  You  are  a  Democrat  in  politics  ? — A.  I  am,  sir. 

Q.  And  appointed  by  Dr.  Mott  as  a  storekeeper  at  what  time — how 
long  ago  ? — A.  As  storekeeper  and  ganger — the  1st  of  January,  1871). 

Q.  You  were  first  assigned  to  Mr.  Miller's? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Were  they  very  plain  people  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  he  was  a  magistrate 
of  the  county,  but  plain  for  all  that. 

Q.  And  his  family  ? — A.  Plain,  common  people;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Was  not  your  ditticulty  this,  that  you  carried  city  manners  out 
there — dressed  up  nicely,  behaved  yourself  as  in  town — and  that  did 
not  suit  these  people  ? — A.  Not  at  all.  I  took  the  oldest  clothes  I  had, 
and  colored  shirts,  and  looked  as  ordinary  as  any  countryman.  I  made 
mj'  habits  conform  to  theirs,  and  was  generally  liked  in  the  neighbor- 
hood outside  of  Mr.  Miller's  family,  and  can  bring  a  hundred  witnesses 
to  testify  to  that. 

Q.  Were  you  liked  by  the  other  members  of  the  family  ? — A.  All  the 
other  members  of  the  family  excejjt  himself. 

Q.  Did  you  board  at  leash's  ? — A.  I  did  not  board  at  IS'ash's  at  all. 
My  recollection  is  he  wanted  forty  dollars  a  month  board.  I  boarded 
with  A.  M.  Bowie,  a  prominent  citizen  of  Davie  County.  I  paid  him,  I 
think,  fifteen  dollars  a  month,  but  it  was  better  board  than  I  could  have 
gotten  in  any  hotel  in  the  county;  the  boarding  i)lace  was  nearer  to  the 
distillery  than  ISTash's  house. 

Q.  Had  you  and  Mr.  Lanier  been  personally  friendly  ? — A.  I  cannot 
say  that  we  had  been. 

Q.  Had  there  been  anj^  personal  unfriendliness  ? — A.  I  think  not,  for 
I  barely  knew  him.  He  had  just  moved  to  our  county  from  Davie,  and 
I  hardly  knew  him  before  he  came  there. 

Q.  You  were  assigned  first  to  one  place  and  then  to  another,  without 
any  delay  between  times  ? — A.  The  first  three  assignments  were  pretty 
close  together.  I  think  I  was  idle  from  the  time  I  left  Lowe  &  Arey's, 
some  time  in  August,  1879,  until  February,  1880,  nearly  six  mouths. 

Q.  You  resigned  your  office  voluntarily? — Yes,  sir;  I  thought  it  was 
best  for  me  to  do  so. 

Q.  In  1880,  when  the  campaign  was  coming  on? — A.  Yes,  sir;  the 
1880  campaign  was  coming  on ;  some  Democrats  were  desertingj  our 
party,  the  party  lines  were  being  drawn  closely,  and  I  thought  it  was 
best  to  go  on  my  own  side. 

Q.  Were  you  not  connected  with  a  Democratic  newspaper  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir ;  I  am,  as  local  and  mining  editor  of  the  Watchman  one  of  the  best 
Democratic  papers  in  the  country.  I  will  say  voluntarily  that  I  never 
received  anj^  personal  a])peal  from  Dr.  ]\[ott,  Avhile  in  his  service,  to 
make  any  political  sacrifice. 

Adjourned  to  July  8,  at  1  p.  m. 


216  ■  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

♦  Washington,  J).  C,  Jidy  8,  1882. 

The  committee  met  at  1  p.  m. 

The  following-  witnesses  were  called  in  behalf  of  Dr.  Mott: 

H.  Y.  Mott  swoiii  ami  examined. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  Where  do  von  reside,  doctor? — Answer.  Iredell  County, 
Xorth  Carolina. 

Q.  What  is  your  occupation  ? — A.  Xow,  sir '? 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  I  am  engaged  in  the  internal-revenue  service. 

Q.  Were  you  acting  as  deputy  from  the  31st  of  March,  1873,  during 
the  quarter,  on  to  the  30th  of  Jnne,  1873  ? — A.  My  recollection  of  these 
things  that  occurred  at  that  time  is  ver}^  indistinct.  I  went  into  the 
revenue  service  in  March,  1873.  I  acted  as  deputy  collector  for  two  or 
three  months. 

Q.  Do  3-ou  recollect  whether  you  acted  up  to  the  3()th  of  June  ? — A. 
For  about  that  time. 

Q.  Where  did  you  reside  at  that  time  ? — A.  In  Lincoln  County. 

Q.  Did  you  receive  your  pay  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q,  I  observe  that  there  was  no  original  voucher  sent  in  by  Mr.  Clarke, 
who  was  at  that  time  principal  clerk  for  the  department,  but  lie  sent  in 
for  ]Mr.  Kestler  ;  how  did  that  mistake  happen  on  the  part  of  Mr.  Clarke, 
do  you  know  ! — A.  I  do  not  know. 

Q.  Did  Mr.  Clarke  know  you  were  a  deputy  ? — A.  I  suppose  he  did. 
I  got  instructions  from  the  ottice  about  my  duties,  and  so  on,  and  blanks 
on  which  to  transact  my  business. 

Q.  You  don't  know  how  he  came  to  send  in  an  original  voucher  for 
]\[r.  Jvestler  and  none  for  you  ? — A.  I  do  not  know. 

(^.  (Handing  pajiers  to  the  witness).  There  is  an  amended  voucher 
])Ut  in  for  you  during  that  time,  amounting  to  8332.97;  did  you  receive 
That  ? — A.  I  do  not  recollect  the  exact  amount,  but  I  got  my  money. 
(Examining  the  voucher.)     That  is  my  signature,  sir. 

Cross-examination  by  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  1  see,  doctor,  that  in  the  original  vouchers  tiled  and  abstracts 
ma<le  for  settlement  in  the  office  here  that  your  name  does  not  appear, 
foi'  tliat  ])eriod,  for  the  second  quarter  of  1873,  from  the  31st  of  March 
to  the  3()th  of  June;  were  you  in  the  service  then  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  How  did  it  come  that  your  name  did  not  appear  here  for  pay  for 
that  time? — A.  I  do  not  know,  sir;  my  recollection  of  the  occurrence 
is  but  very  indistinct.  I  I^ncw  nothing  in  the  world  about  the  working' 
of  the  Jtevenue  Department  at  that  time.  I  lived  miles  from  the  office, 
and  only  know  J  was  calle<l  ujton  for  this  amended  voucher. 

(}.  Mad  you  made  any  chiims  for  pay  before  you  were  called  on  to 
give  tlie,  amended  vou(;her,  Di'.  Mott?  The  voucher  was  in  1874;  the 
money  was  <lMe  in  187.'>. — A.  Oh,  yes. 

(}.  \Viiat  isyour  answer ;  thatyou  made  no  claims  lor  pay  before  that 
lime    — A.  Oh,  no;   I  got  my  j)ay  before  that  time. 

<^).   W'iiat  lime  did  you  get  your  ]>ay  ? — A.   1  do  not  remi'mber. 

(^.  \i)\\  had  got  your  pay  before? — A.  In  what  I  conceived  to  be  a 
reasonable  time  alter  tiu^  work-  was  ])ei  foiined.  1  do  not  exactly  re- 
member how  it  was. 

(}.  The  ainench'd  \'oucher  is  sworn  to  on  tiui  2.">th  of  August,  1874, 
ami  lliis  money  was  due  .lune  30,  1873;  that  was  nearly  14  months 
alterwards? — A.   ^'es,  sir. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NOKTJI    CAROLINA.  217 

Q.  Now,  liow  long' after  the  3()tli  of  June,  1873,  wa.s  it  until  you  got  your 
money? — A.  1  cannot  tell  you  ;  I  do  not  remember. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  it  was  before  tbe  2jth  of  August  ? — A.  Oli,  yes, 
sir ;  before  1874  ? 

Q.  Yes. — A.  Yes,  sir, 

Q.  If  you  were  paid  before  that  time,  you  were  paid  before  the  voucher 
was  made  out? — A.  I  do  not  know,  sir;  I  cannot  tell  you  anything 
about  that. 

().  As  you  say  you  do  not  know  that  any  voucher  was  ])ut  in  by  Mr. 
■Clarke,  and  the  one  you  did  sign  to  put  in  was  on  the  -~)th  of  August, 
so  that  if  paid  before  that,  so  far  as  you  know,  you  were  paid  before  the 
voucher  '? — A.  So  far  as  I  know. 

Q.  Your  name  does  not  appear  on  this  original  voucher  ? — A.  That  is 
so. 

Q.  ])i<l  you  know  when  these  vouchers  that  were  amended  were  ])ut 
into  the  office  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  that. 

Q.  When  did  you  say  your  commission  began  as  deputy  collector'? — 
A.  My  recollection  of  it  is  that  I  did  some  work  in  March ;  but  on  recon- 
sidering the  matter  the  vouchers  were  not  put  in  for  longer  than  April — 
from  the  1st  of  April,  I  think. 

Q.  Have  you  your  commission  with  you? — A.  No,  sir;  I  have  not. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  the  date  of  it  ? — A.  I  do  not;  my  impression  is 
it  was  some  time  in  March.  ^ 

Q.  1873  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  do  not  remember. 

Q.  How  did  it  come  that  you  did  not  apply  at  the  time  your  pay  was 
due,  on  the  30th  of  June? — A.  Well,  sir,  I  do  not  know;  I  cannot  tell 
you.  As  1  said  at  the  outset,  my  recollection  of  everything  that  oc- 
curred then  is  very  indistinct,  and  I  want  it  understood  that  way;  when 
I  testify  as  to  matters  of  detail  I  do  not  remember  much  about  it.  All 
I  remember  is  that  I  was  perlectly  satistied  with  the  transaction;  audi 
got  the  money  that  was  allowed  me  in  what  I  conceived  to  be  a  reason- 
able length  of  time. 

Q.  Did  you  act  as  storekeeper  and  ganger  a  part  of  the  time  you  were 
deputy  collector  ? — A.  No,  sir;  1  acted  as  general  storekeeper,  I  think, 
for  about  five  or  six  days  in  the  latter  part  of  the  last  month  in  which  I 
was  deputy. 

Q.  Did  you  draw  ])ay  for  it? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  For  two  offices  at  the  same  time? — A.  For  five  or  six  days;  that  is 
my  recollection.  I  do  not  recollect  exactly  the  time,  and  have  not  re- 
ferred to  these  tilings  to  see. 

Q.  Do  you  know  who  else  were  deputies  at  the  same  time  with  you  ? — 
A.  I  forget.    I  do  not  remember  one. 

Q.  Y"ou  were  general  storekeeper  only  for  live  or  six  days  ? — A.  ]My 
commission  came  as  general  storekeeper  five  or  six  days  before  the  last 
month  I  Mas  deputy  ran  out. 

Q.  Did  you  then  cease  to  be  deputy  ? — A.  At  the  end  of  the  mouth  ; 
yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  became  general  storekeeper  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  What  division  were  you  assigned  to  as  general  storekeeper  ? — A. 
I  believe  it  was  the  third — I  am  not  certain  how  the  divisions  ran  at  that 
time — consisting  of  Gaston,  Lincoln,  Catawba,  «S:c. 

Q.  Was  Mr.  Clarke's  distillery,  that  was  afterwards  seized,  in  your 
division? — A.  Clarke's? 

Q.  Y^es,  sir. — A.  I  was  not  general  storekeeper  at  that  time.  I  am 
a  special  ganger,  and  have  been  for  years. 


218  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  There  was  a  Mott  wlio  was  general  storekeeper  then ;  that  was 
your  brother! — A.  Yes,  sir;  Walter  Mott. 

Q.  You  are  now  general  storekeeper? — A.  No,  sir.  1  am  a  special 
ganger. 

Q.  You  are  a  physician  by  profession,  doctor  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  practice  your  profession  ? — A.  ]S'o,  sir. 

Q.  You  do  not  practice  now  ? — A.  Ko,  sir. 

Q.  (Examining  list  of  storekeepers  and  gaugers).  In  the  last  quarter 
of  June,  1873,  I  lind  the  department  lias  you  charged  witli  a  part  of  the 
month  of  June,  $20  ;  tliat  covers  what? — A.  As  general  storekeeper? 

Q.  For  the  time  you  spoke  of — live  or  six  days  ?^-A.  I  think  that  is 
the  time. 

Q.  Then  you  say  you  ceased  to  be  deputy  and  continued  to  be  a  store- 
keeper during  the  balance  of  tlie  term  ? — A.  General  storekeeper. 

Q.  Are  you  a  brother  of  the  collector  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

J.  B.  Howell  sworn  and  examined. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  Where  do  you  reside  ? — Answer.  Statesville. 

Q.  What  is  your  occupation  ? — A.  Storekeeper  and  ganger. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  in  the  revenue  service  ? — A.  I  went  into 
the  service  in  1876 ;  my  first  assignment  was  in  July,  1870. 

Q.  Do  you  k^ow  William  M.  Walker,  who  was  a  witness  on  the  stand 
here? — A.  Do  I  know  him  ? 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  I  know  him  very  well. 

Q.  Do  yon  know  his  character  in  the  com.munity  where  he  lives? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Please  state  what  it  is. — A.  His  character  is  good. 

Q.  He  is  a  man  of  high  standing  ? — A.  Well,  sir,  I  think  his  charac- 
ter for  truth,  honesty,  and  principle  is  as  good  as  any  man's  in  the  com- 
munity ;  that  he  is  a  man  that  stands  on  jirinciple. 

Q.  He  is  an  earnest,  resolute  man,  is  he? — A.  Yes,  sir;  very. 

i}.  Do  you  know  the  character  of  Dr.  Mott  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  Dr.  Mott's 
character  is  good. 

(}.  How  long  have  you  been  living  in  that  section  ? — A.  I  have  been 
living  in  Statesville  about  ten  years. 

(.}.  Can  you  state  what  Dr.  Mott's  character  is  ? — A.  Yes ;  Dr.  Mott's 
character  is  good. 

(}.  Is  Dr.  ]\Iotfc  well  known  all  through  that  country? — A,  Yes,  sir; 
he  has  been  collector  of  internal  reveinie  for  a  long  time,  and  is  exten- 
sively known. 

(}.  Do  you  know  a  man  in  all  that  section  that  stands  higher  in  a 
social  way  and  in  all  the  i)oints  that  make  up  a  good  citizen  ? — A.  I 
think  not. 

(,>.  lie  stands  as  high  as  anybody  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  ilas  his  character  been  afCected  by  these  revenue  rumors? — A. 
Well,  1  don't  know  tiiat  it  has,  es]>ecially  with  i)ers()ns  who  had  the 
opporhinity  to  know  something  of  the  service,  I  do  not  think  the 
niMiors  liavc.  injured  tin;  doctor. 

Cross-examination  by  tlie  CHAIRMAN: 
Q.  You  say  you  lia\<!  been  in  the  service  since  1S7G? — A.  Since  the 
yciir  1S7(*;  yes,  sir. 

(}.   Ibivc  you  been  <;;illc(l  on  at   any  time  <luiing  your  service  to  pay 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CARILIXA..  21^ 

political  assessments  ? — A.  I  have  contributed  to  political  things  several 
times. 

Q.  How  much  generally  ? — A.  I  don't  think  I  have  ever  paid  more- 
than  $25  at  a  time. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  at  any  time  pay  a  check  for  a  month's  wages  ? — A. 
iSi  o,  sir ;  I  never  did. 

Q.  Do  you  know  if  any  others  did  f — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  it  was  done  by 
some,  l)ut  I  don't  know  it  of  my  own  knowledge. 

Q.  Have  you  heard  others  say  that  they  did? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think 
I  have. 

Q.  How  did  it  happen  that  you  were  let  off  for  less  than  the  others  ? 
— A.  I  was  not  on  duty  at  that  time  when  these  checks  were  given. 

Q.  And  they  did  not  call  upon  those  ^vho  were  not  doing  work  ! — A.. 
I  can  only  answer  for  myself. 

Q.  You  were  not  called  upon? — A.  No,  sir;  I  was  not  called  on. 

Q.  How  much  do  you  suppose  you  have  contributed  altogether  ? — A, 
I  do  not  know.  I  do  not  know  how  much  at  different  times — have  no 
idea. 

Q.  Have  you  any  idea  about  how  much  you  paid  ? — A.  I  have  not  a 
very  definite  idea ;  I  have  i^aid  as  high  as  $25  at  one  time,  and  different 
amounts  at  different  times. 

Q.  Can  you  give  me  an  idea  of  how  much  was  collected  in  the  cam- 
paign of  1880,  for  that  purpose,  out  of  the  revenue  officers  ? — A.  No,  sir;, 
I  cannot ;  I  do  not  know  how  much. 

Q.  What  distilleries  were  you  assigned  to  ? — A.  I  have  been  at  several. 

Q.  Give  us  the  names,  beginning  with  the  first  one. — A.  The  first  one- 
was  Mr.  Cline's,  in  CataAvba  County. 

Q.  How  long  did  you  stay  there? — A.  I  staid  there  sixty  days,-  at 
that  time  we  were  changed  every  sixty  days  from  one  place  to  another. 

Q.  Was  that  by  order  from  headquarters? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  from  the  col- 
lector, I  suppose. 

Q.  How  long  did  that  order  continue  ? — A.  I  do  not  know,  sir;  here 
had  been  such  an  order  before  I  went  into  the  service. 

Q.  How  long  did  it  operate  on  you? — A.  I  went  from  Cline's  to  Gas- 
ton County,  to  Mr.  Suggs's.  1  staid  there  sixty  days.  I  then  went  ta 
Mr.  Ehyne's,  in  Gaston  County. 

Q.  A.  B.  ? — A.  Y"es,  sir;  I  staid  there  sixty  days,  and  went  then  to 
Davie  County,  to  Mr.  J.  B.  Lanier's ;  I  staid  there  fourteen  or  fifteen, 
months. 

Q.  Now,  at  any  of  these  distilleries,  was  an  improper  proposition  made- 
to  you  about  dividing  your  pay? — A.  Never. 

Q.  At  none  of  them? — A.  Never  a  word. 

Q.  No  solicitations  to  permit  them  to  violate  the  law  with  regard  to 
mashing, carrying  the  keys,  and  so  on? — A.  No,  sir;  I  never  permitted 
anything  of  that  kind,  and  I  never  was  approached  in  that  way. 

Q,  Do  you  know  of  any  case  where  that  was  done? — A.  I  do  not  of 
my  own  knowledge.  I  have  heard  this  rumor  that  is  in  the  country^ 
that  in  some  instances  officers  had  divided  their  pay,  but  I  do  not  know 
whether  there  is  any  truth  in  it  or  not. 

Q.  But  you  heard  it.  Can  you  tell  us  of  whom  you  heard  it? — A.  I 
do  not  know  that  I  ever  heard  the  charge  preferred  against  any  one  par- 
ticularly. I  never  heard  much  about  it  at  all  till  this  investigation 
was  going  on. 

Q.  When  you  were  at  Rhyne's,  in  Gaston  County,  how  many  distill- 
eries had  he  in  operation  ? — A.  He  was  running  two. 

Q.  How  near  were  they  to  each  other? — A.  About  half  a  mile. 


220  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Were  they  both  on  his  laud  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  that;  1  .suppose 
that  tliey  were. 

Q.  AVho  was  the  other  storekeeper? — A.  Mr.  Ferguson;  he  was  a 
Da  Has  num. 

Q.  A\'as  he  any  kin  to  Ehyne  ? — A.  Not  that  I  know  of. 

Q.  Where  did  you  board? — A.  I  boarded  at  ^Iv.  Iloffnuin's,  in  ])allas. 

Q.  In  the  town  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  much  did  you  pay  for  board  ? — A.  Fifteen  doUars  a  month. 

Q.  How  far  was  that  from  Ehyne's  distillery? — A.  About  a  mile  and 
$1  half. 

Q.  Bid  you  know  whether  Ehyue  had  originally  one  distillery  or 
two  ? — A  1  do  not  kuow. 

Q.  What  was  the  capacity  of  the  one  to  which  you  were  attached  ? — 
A.  My  recollection  is  that  it  was  six  bushels  i^er  day. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  he  sold  whisky  at  ? — A.  I  do  uot. 

Q.  Did  you  never  hear  him  say,  or  people  say,  that  were  bnying  from 
liin).  what  they  were  buyiug  it  from  him  at? — A.  I  do  not  recollect.  I 
might  have  heard  it  mentioned,  but  I  do  uot  recollect  anything  about 
it  now. 

Q.  Dad  he  sold  any  quantity  of  it  while  you  were  a  storekeei)er 
there  ?— A.  1  think  he  did. 

Q.  He  was  selling  it  all  the  time? — A.  He  was  selling  occasionally,  of 
course.     1  do  uot  recollect  now. 

Q.  Do  5'ou  know  whether  he  sold  much  of  it  in  kegs  of  less  than  five 
gallons? — A.  No,  sir;  I  do  uot  know  that  he  did. 

Q.  Did  he  have  a  license  to  retail? — A.  I  do  uot  tliink  he  had  when 
I  was  with  him.  I  do  not  think  I  ever  knew  him  to  sell  whisky  except 
in  the  original  i)ackages — put  into  the  distillery  barrels. 

Q.  Did  you  know  a  revenue  agent  by  the  name  of  Chapman  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  Mr.  Chapman  visit  Mr.  Ehyne's  distillery  while  you  were 
there  ? — A.  Xo,  sir ;  I  was  there  before  Chapman  came  into  the  coun- 
try.    'Sir.  Chapman  came  into  North  Carolina  after  that. 

(}.  You  stoi»i)ed  at  Mr.  Lanier's,  in  Davie  County? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

i).  And  staid  fourteen  months? — A.  Yes,  sir;  fonrteen  or  fifteen 
months. 

(-i-  Where  did  you  go  from  there  ? — A.  To  Mr.  Johnson's,  in  AVilkes 
County.     Combs  &  Johnson  was  the  firm. 

<}.   How  long  did  you  stay  there? — A.  Four  or  five  montlis. 

(}.  Wliom  (lid  yon  board  with  ? — A.  With  JMr.  Johnson — the  father  and 
fatiiei-iii  law  of  the  ])roi)rietors. 

(i>.  ^\■hat  di<l  \  ()u  pay  there  for  board  ?— A.  Ten  dollars  a  month. 

().  Was  that  the  common  price  of  the  country? — A.  I  do  not  know, 
sir;   1  reckon  about  the  ordiiiaiy  price. 

Q.  How  did  yon  coiiie  to  leaN'c  there? — A.  Tliey  suspcmled  the  dis- 
tilleiy  operations. 

(}.  llow  long  (lid  t  licy  rciiiaiii  in  siisjicnsion  ? — A.  1  do  not  think  that 
tlicy  started  again. 

().    Do  \()n  think  it  is  st  ill  under  snspension  ? — A.   1  think  so. 

(i>.  Where  <lid  you  go  lr(Mn  there:' — A.  I  think  I  went  to  Cabarrus 
County,  to  Mr.  l-'ishei's  dislilleiy. 

Q.  How  long  did  you  slay  with  him  ? — A.  About  three  months,  I 
think — until  he  suspended  his  distillery. 

(}.  How  long  did  In;  stay  under  suspension:' — A.  I  think  he  started 
again  in  a  month  or  two.  but  only  ran  a  short  lime. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  221 

Q.  Did  he  start  again  with  you  as  storekeeper? — A.  Xo,  sir;  witli  a 
mau  by  the  name  of  Lawrence. 

Q.  Can  you  give  the  coniiiiittee  information  of  any  improper  thing 
that  was  done,  or  viohition  of  the  law,  during  the  time  you  were  con- 
nected witli  the  service? — A.  I  luive  no  inlormation  of  that  kind  to 
impart. 

Q.  Did  you  not  work  for  INIr.  Drake,  wlio  was  a  general  storekeeper! — 
A.  I  went  one  time.  I  was  going  up  into  Catawba  County,  and  Mr. 
Drake  had  the  keys  of  some  distillery  near  Xewton,  and  he  asked  me — 
a  gentleman  had  written  to  him  wanting  to  get  his  still  caps  out  of  the 
cistern-room  or  warehouse,  wliere  they  were  locked  up,  so  as  to  make 
brand5\  Drake  told  me  to  take  the  keys  of  it  and  let  him  take  the  caps 
out. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  others  who  did  work  for  him? — A.  Xo,  sir;  1  do 
not. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  know  of  his  doing  any  work  for  himself? — A.  Yes^ 
sir;  I  frequently  have  seen  him  leaving  town  and  returning,  and  heard 
of  his  being  absent. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  what  he  was  doing  when  he  was  gone? — A.  lie 
was  a  general  storekeeper,  and  was  putting  tax-paid  stamps  on  whisky 
for  parties. 

Q.  You  heard  this,  but  did  you  ever  see  him  doing  that? — A.  I  never 
saw  hini  do  it  at  all.     I  never  saw  him  stamp  liquor. 

Q.  You  saw  him  going  out  of  town,  and  it  was  said  he  was  going  ta 
do  that? — A.  I  heard  him  talk  about  it  himself. 

Q.  Was  he  not  very  constantly  in  hisoftice  ? — A.  I  don't  know;  I  am 
not  myself  frequently  in  his  oltice. 

Q.  He  edited  and  ran  a  paper  all  the  time  he  was  in  the  service? — 
A.  I  think  his  son  is  proprietor  of  the  paper  and  he  is  editor. 

Q.  That  is  recently? — A.  Xo,  sir;  that  has  been  the  case  for  several 
years. 

Q.  Who  edits  the  paper?— A.  It  used  to  be  E.  B.  Drake. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  that  he  edits  it  now  ? — A.  I  suppose  that  he  gives 
it  his  attention. 

Q.  His  sou  Will  is  in  the  service? — A.  Xo,  sir;  he  never  has  been 
that  I  know  of.     If  he  ever  has  been  in  the  service  I  do  not  know  it. 

Dr.  MoTT.  He  was  in  the  service  before  you  came. 

The  Witness.  I  did  not  know  that  he  ever  had  been. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  What  is  Mr.  Drake's  character? — A.  Good. 

Q.  Is  anybody's  better  ? — A.  I  think  not. 

The  Chairman.  Which  one  are  you  speaking  of? 

Mr.  Pool.  I  spoke  about  Mr.  E.  B.  Drake,  the  one  tliat  he  is  testify- 
ing about. 

Q.  How  long  has  he  been  editor  of  the  Statesville  American? — A.  I 
do  not  know;  he  has  been  connected  with  the  paper  in  Statesville  for  a 
long  time.     I  think  before  the  war. 

Q.  What  is  his  age  ? — A.  He  is  sixty-five  years  old,  I  would  say. 

Q.  Is  there  a  man  in  the  country  of  better  character  than  Mr.  Drake  ? — 
A.  I  think  not. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  make  any  political  contributions  against  your  will  ? — 
A.  I  never  did. 

Q.  All  were  freely  made? — A.  Always. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  know  of  anybody  being  constrained,  by  threats  or 


1222  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

otherwise,  to  make  these  coutributions? — A.  I  never  did;  I  never  heard 
anythiuo-  of  the  kind. 

Q.  I  think  yon  named  live  different  distilleries  to  which  you  were 
assigned? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  have  forgotten  how  many  I  have  named;  I 
have  been  to  several. 

Q.  Yon  say  yon  never  had  any  improper  proposition  made  to  you  by 
any  of  these  distillers? — A.  I  never  have. 

Q.  Yon  said  some  suspended  while  you  were  there*? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  know  why  they  snspended! — A.  Mr.  Combs  and  John- 
son, they  stopped  their  distillery  and  moved  it  off  to  another  part  of  the 
county.  In  fact,  one  of  them  Avent  out  of  the  business.  Combs  moved 
his  distillery  ten  or  twelve  miles  from  where  it  was.  Where  I  had  been 
staying  was  near  the  Y^adkin  Eiver. 

Q.  You  never  divided  your  pay  with  them? — A.  Never  did. 

Q.  Y'ou  never  permitted  them  to  do  anything  to  your  knowledge  that 
was  unlawful? — A.  I  never  did. 

Q.  Have  you  any  reason  to  believe  they  suspended  because  you  would 
not  divide? — A.  i^o,  sir;  I  never  had  a  proposition  of  that  kind  made 
to  me. 

Q.  You  have  no  reason  to  believe  they  suspended  on  that  account? — 
A.  ]Sro,  sir;  none  at  all. 

Q.  You  staid  thirteen  months  at  Lanier's? — A.  I  was  there  fourteen 
or  fifteen  months. 

Q.  Till  it  suspended,  or  did  it  not  suspend? — A.  He  did  not  suspend; 
there  was  another  man  sent  there  to  take  my  place. 

W.  F.  Henderson  sworn  and  examined. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  \Vhere  do  you  reside  ? — Answer.  Lexington,  N.  C. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  resided  there? — A.  I  have  resided  there  since 
1800  or  1867,  I  forget  which. 

().  Were  you  once  an  assessor  of  internal  revenue? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(^,  During  the  time  you  w^ere  assessor  of  internal  revenue,  where  did 
jou  reside  ? — A.  I  resided  in  Salisbury. 

C^).  You  had  j^our  office  there? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  You  remained  assessor  up  to  the  time  that  the  office  was  abol- 
ished ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  was  in  1873,  I  believe? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  was  appointed  in 
180!>,  and  I  think  the  office  was  abolished  in  June  or  July,  1873. 

Q.  That  was  in  the  sixth  district  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

(^.  Were  you  then  well  acquainted  with  the  people  of  the  sixth  dis- 
trict ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  resided  in  Salisbury  at  tlie  time  ? — A.  I  was  well  ac- 
•fiuainlcd  witli  the  business  men  of  tlie  district. 

ii.  Do  you  know  .Mi',  Kestler,  tlie  witness  that  has  been  here? — A. 
Y'es,  sir. 

(^).  How  h)ng  ha\c  you  known  him  ? — A.  AVhen  I  first  knew  Kestler 
Jie  wasliN'ing  in  Concord,  in  1801).  He  afterwards  removed  to  Salisbury. 
I  foi-gct;  what  year  he  removed  to  Salisl)ury,  perha])s  1871  ;  somewhere 
iihdig  lliere. 

().  Have  you  ficciuenlly  lieeu  in  Salisbury  since  tliattime? — A.  I  have 
remained  in  Salisbury   ueaily  every  <hiy  until  1873. 

().   I  mean  siiure.  bS73  ? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  far  is  Lexington  from  Salisbury? — A.  Sixteen  miles. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NOliTH    CAROLINA.  223 

Q.  Will  you  state  what  Mr.  Kestloi's  character  is  ? — A.  lli.s  character 
is  not  good. 

i}.  Ill  what  res])ect  is  it  Ijad  ?  and  i)lease  state  all  about  it. — A.  It  is 
considered  in  that  coinniunity  as  l)eiH,n-  bad  i'or  truth. 

(}.  Do  you  gather  your  iuipressioii  of  his  character  from  having-  talked 
Avith  prominent  men  there  and  hearing'  them  speak  of  him  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  From  the  best  citizens  of  Salisbury? — A.  As  good  as  any  other. 

(^.  As  to  general  character  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  his  moral  character  good? — A.  ^^'ell,  no,  sir;  he  is  a  sort  of 
.shackling  fellow. 

Q.  Do  you  know  any  respect  in  which  his  character  is  good  at  all  '. — 
A.  I  do  not  think  I  do,  sir. 

Q.  Is  he  held  in  any  respect  in  that  community  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  30U  know  the  character  of  Dr.  Mott  f — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  liave  you  known  him  f — A.  I  have  known  Dr.  IMott  since 
180(). 

Q.  Have  you  been  in  the  habit  of  canvassing  and  making  speeches 
through  the  district  for  many  years  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Are  yon  well  acquainted  with  the  people  of  that  district  ! — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  Will  you  state  Dr.  Mott's  general  character  and  the  estimate  in 
which  he  is  held  by  the  people  ? — A.  It  is  as  good  as  any  man's  in  the 
State. 

Q.  Has  his  character  suffered  by  all  these  slanderous  rumors  going 
around  in  regard  to  the  internal  reveune? — A.  Not  at  all  by  those  who 
know  him. 

Q.  A  witness  has  stated  that  in  1872  or  1873,  or  along  there,  that  he 
acted  as  ganger  and  storekeeper  at  the  same  time  that  he  acted  as 
deputy,  and  while  drawing  his  salary  as  deputy  be  received  a  percent- 
age as  ganger;  was  tliat  the  cnstom  at  that  time  ! — A.  Well,  in  view 
of  the  fact  that  in  1871,  1872,  and  1873,  in  that  section  of  the  State,  it 
was  very  hard  to  get  men  who  were  competent  to  fill  those  places.  I 
think  in  1872  or  1873  the  assistant  assessors  acted  also  as  gangers. 

Q.  Was  that  permitted  by  the  department? — A.  It  was,  sir. 

Q.  Did  the  department  raise  no  point  on  their  holding  both  positions  ? 
— A.  They  did  not  raise  any  point.  For  instance,  the  assessor  was  em- 
ployed part  of  the  month  in  making  assessments,  and  we  paid  him  for 
the  time  he  acted  as  assessor,  and  then  we  paid  him  for  the  time  he 
acted  as  ganger. 

Q.  Did  yon  say  deputies  or  assessors  ? — A.  I  said  assistant  assessors. 

Q.  They  acted  as  assessors  and  storekeepers  at  the  same  time? — A. 
Yes,  sir ;  and  I  think  the  deputy  collectors  acted  in  the  same  capacity. 

Q.  During  the  same  time? — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  Was  that  nnder  Mr.  Wylie,  the  predecessor  of  Dr.  Mott  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  Has  there  not  been  a  change  since  that  time  in  the  regulations  in 
respect  to  the  pay  of  these  gangers  and  storekeepers,  and  upon  that 
subject  generally  ? — A.  The  regulations  have  been  changed  a  great 
many  times  and  in  various  points. 

Q.  Y^ou  are  not  engaged  in  the  revenue  service  now,  are  you? — A. 
No,  sir ;  not  since  1873. 

Q.  Yon  do  not  know  what  the  regulations  are  at  the  present  time; 
you  only  know  what  they  were  at  that  time? — A.  No,  sir;  these  serv- 
ices were  rendered  as  a  general  thing-  bv  the  order  of  the  collector. 


224  COLLECTION    OF    INTERXAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Do  you  know  tlie  cliaraeter  of  W.M.Walker? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I 
have  known  Walker  since  1870. 

Q.  State  what  it  is? — A.  It  is  good. 

Cross-examination  by  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Can  you  give  me  the  names  of  any  parties  who,  under  Mr.  Wylie^ 
drew  double  i^ay  ? — A.  I  did  not  say  anybody  drew  double  pay. 

Q.  What  did  you  suy  ? — A.  I  said  when  they  were  acting  in  the  ca- 
pacity of  assistant  assessors,  and  they  drew  pay  as  assistants,  and 
when  not  acting  as  assistant  assessors,  and  as  gangers,  they  drew  pay 
as  gangers.     1  did  not  say  they  drew  double  pay. 

Q.  You  mean  to  say,  then,  under  Mr.  Wylie,  that  an  oflicer  in  one  ca- 
pacity would  often  do  the  work  in  another  capacity,  bnt  only  draw  pay 
for  that  capacity  iu  which  he  did  the  work? — A,  That  is  my  under- 
standing. 

Q.  He  did  not  draw  regular  monthly  pay  in  the  other  capacity  at  the 
same  time  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  any  instance  of  that  sort?  — A.  aS"o,  sir. 

Dr.  MoTT.  Did  not  your  brother  act  as  deputy  and  ganger  at  the 
same  time? 

The  AViTNESS.  Yes,  sir. 

Dr.  MoTT.  Of  course  he  drew  j)ay  right  along? 

The  Witness.  He  drew  pay  as  ganger  and  also  drew  pay  as  assistant 
assessor. 

Dr.  jMott.  He  was  a  dei)uty  collector,  was  he  not. 

The  AViTNESS.  Yes,  sir ;  he  was  a  deputy  collector. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Then  your  brother,  Kuflt'  Henderson,  did  draw  double  pay  while 
under  you  ? — A.  He  was  under  Mr.  AVylie. 

Q.  He  was  assistant  assessor  to  you? — No,  sir  5  he  was  deputy  col- 
lector; he  never  had  any  oflice  under  me. 

Q.  He  did  draw  double  pay  ? — A.  AVell,  I  say  this:  he  drew  pay,  my 
understanding  is,  while  he  was  deputy  collector  for  the  days  he  was  in 
service  as  deputy  collector,  and  then  when  he  was  iu  service  as  gauger 
he  drew  pay  as  gauger. 

Q.  Then  he  was  drawing  pay  in  both  capacities? — A.  Not  both  on 
the  same  day. 

Q.  AVhy  not ;  his  pay  as  deputy  collector  was  hy  the  month  ? — A.  Yes^ 
sir. 

(,).  Wliat  work  did  he  do  while  deputy  collector  ? — A.  That  is  a  mat- 
tci-  which  was  sctth'd  between  him  and  the  collector.  The  collector 
])aid  Iiim  one  tliousand  dollars  a  year,  bnt  frequently  he  was  ordered  to 
do  ganging. 

(.}.  Then  lie  got  pay  for  ganging  in  addition  to  this  one  thousand  dol- 
Lirs  a  year,  did  he  not? — A.  Yes,  sir;  wlietlier  there  was  any  deduc- 
tion oi'  not  I  cannot  say. 

<).  Was  there  an\- law  for  sncli  a  tiling  as  that? — A.  There  was  a 
regnhit  ion  to  f  Iiat  elfect. 

(^.  'JMiat  they  shouhl  draw  donble  ])ay  ? — A.  No,  sir  ;  1  did  not  say 
that.     The  regnhilions  ordered,  to  do  tlie  service. 

The  (^HAiUMAX.  1  will  put  in  evidence  sections  IKiland  17(5r)ofthe 
lievised  Statutes,  as  foHows: 

Sicc.  1704.  No  allowance  or  coiiipciiH;!!  idii  sliall  l>i'  iiiadc  (o  any  (ildciT  oi- clt'ik  by 
ic-aHiMi  of  fill-  (liHcliaifif  of  dnticN  wliicli  hclonj;  to  any  otlicr  ollicer  or  clerk  in  the 
haiii«!  or  any  other  <lei)artinciit ;  and  no  allowance  or  coinpensation  nhall  he  made  for 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  225 

any  extra  services  whatever,  wliicli  any  officer  or  clerk  may  be  required  to  perform, 
aalesH  expressly  authorized  by  law. 

Seo.  17().'').  No  ofliccr  in  any  liranch  of  the  public  service,  or  any  other  person  whose 
salary,  pay,  or  euiohuucnt.s  arc  fixed  by  law  or  regulations,  shall  receive  any  addi- 
tional pay,  extra  allowance,  or  compensation,  in  any  form  whatever,  for  the  disburse- 
ment of  public  money,  or  for  any  other  service  or  duty  whatever,  unless  the  same  is 
authorized  by  law,  and  the  appropriation  therefor  exi)Iicitly  states  that  it  is  for  such 
additional  pay,  extra  allowance,  or  compcMJsation. 

Mr.  Pool.  What  is  the  date  of  that  act"? 

The  Chairman.  The  reference  in  the  mar<>in  is,  "Act  of  June  20, 1874, 
"19th  Statute." 

Mr.  Pool.  The  hiw  was  passed  after  the  time  spoken  of. 

The  Witness.  It  was  done  under  the  act  of  June  20,  1808. 

Mr.  Pool.  I  su])j)ose  the  law  was  passed  to  break  up  the  regulations 
of  the  department  previous  to  that  time. 

The  Witness.  The  office  was  governed  by  the  regulations,  L  think. 
Kegulation  5,  No.  7, 1870. 

The  Clerk.  The  original  act  was  August  20, 1842,  and  that  act  was 
brought  forward. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  You  have  given  testimony  tending  to  take  away  the  character  of 
a  feeble,  one-armed  ex-soldier,  Mr.  Kestler.  You  of  course,  then,  can 
have  no  objection  to  answering  some  questions  about  your  own  charac- 
ter. I  will  ask  you  if  your  own  character  has  not  been  considered  very 
bad  in  North  Carolina? — A.  If  you  take  the  newspaper  reports,  in  con- 
sequence of  my  being  a  Republican — take  what  thej^  say — it  would  be 
so. 

Q.  Was  there  not  any  cause  assigned  by  the  public  for  calling  you  a 
man  of  bad  character  other  than  your  Republicanism? — A.  Not  that  1 
know  of. 

Q.  Were  you  not  accused  and  openly  charged  with  stealing  a  mule? 
— A.  I  was  accused,  and  triumphantly  vindicated  without  a  scintilla  of 
evidence  brought  against  me. 

Q.  I  ask  you  now  if  you  were  not  accused  of  that.  I  am  not  asking 
if  you  were  guilty  of  it. — A.  So  I  understood  it. 

Q.  You  were  accused  of  those  things "? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  was. 

Q.  I  will  also  ask  you  if  you  were  not  accused  of  stealing  some  law 
books  belonging  to  Mr.  Kittrell  I — A.  I  was  not.  There  was  a  charge 
preferred  in  the  supreme  court,  made  by  a  man  through  political  pre- 
judice, to  the  effect  that  I  had  taken  the  books,  and  after  I  had  thrown 
down  the  books  in  the  supreme  court  before  Judge  Pearson,  the  very 
books  which  the  charge  was  made  upon,  the  judge  said  that  the  man 
who  made  the  charge  ought  to  be  unmantled.  It  was  uot  only  that 
charge  of  stealing,  but  the  charge  was  that  after  having  stolen  the 
books,  I  had  erased  the  name  of  Kittrell  on  them,  and  written  my  own 
name  in  its  place,  which  was  false. 

Q.  I  did  not  ask  you  about  the  falsity  of  it.— A.  When  I  produced 
the  law  books  in  the  supreme  court,  when  I  was  making  application  to 
be  adnntted  to  the  bar — the  books  were  "  Williams  on  Executors" — there 
was  Kittrell's  name  on  tlie  inside  of  the  book  and  on  the  outside  of  it, 
and  my  name  was  not  anywh/re  on  them,  and  the  supreme  court  at 
that  session  licensed  me  to  practice  law,  after  thus  vindicating  myself 
from  that  charge. 

Q.  Still  those  charges  were  made  in  the  newspapers  against  you  f — 
A.  They  were  made  by  the  Democratic  newspapers  for  political  pur 
S.  Mis.  110 15 


226  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

X)oses,  in  consequence  of  my  adhesion  and  devotion  to  the  Kepublican 
party. 

Q,  You  say  you  talked  with  the  best  men  in  Salisbury  about  Mr.  Kest- 
ler,  and  they  all  said  he  was  a  man  of  bad  character  for  truth.  Will 
you  give  me  the  names  of  the  people  that  you  talked  with  ? — A.  I  did 
not  talk  to  anybody  about  it.  I  heard  Mr.  Black  mar  say  Mr.  Kestler 
was  not  a  man  of  truth. 

Q.  You  heard  Mr.  Blackma]' ! — A.  And  John  I.  Shaver  said  it  also^ 

Q.  How  long  has  Mr.  Shaver  been  dead  ? — A.  He  died,  I  think,  in 
1875.     That  is  mj  recollection  ;  I  am  not  positive  about  it. 

Q.  Is  Mr.  Kestler  not  in  business  there  now  with  men  of  respectable 
character  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  who  he  is  in  business  with. 

Q.  Is  he  not  in  business  with  Mr.  Blackmar  at  the  present  time? — A.. 
Mr.  Kestler? 

Q.  And  Mr.  Frercks  f — A.  If  he  is,  I  do  uot  know  it.  I  understand 
he  has  a  grocery. 

Q.  Does  that  show  that  he  is  a  man  of  bad  character  for  truth,  be- 
cause he  has  a  grocery  ? — A.  It  does  not. 

Q.  Do  you  think  a  grocery  keeper  can  tell  the  truth  f — A.  Y^es,  sir  5. 
Mr.  Snider  has  been  in  the  business  in  Salisbury  for  many  years,  and  he 
is  a  good  man  for  truth,  a  man  of  good  character,  recognized  by  the  re- 
spectable citizens  of  Salisbury  as  being  a  gentleman,  and  of  good  char- 
acter.    So  is  Mr.  Mills,  who  keeps  a  grocery. 

Q.  You  disclaim,  then,  the  idea  that  a  grocery  keeper  cannot  be  a 
man  of  truth  ? — A.  Of  course  I  do. 

Q.  Did  you  never  hear  anybody"  say  that  Mr.  Kestler  was  a  man  of 
truth? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Were  you  present  yesterday  when  Mr.  Eamsay  was  sworn  ? — A. 
I  was  not,  sir. 

Senator  Mitchell.  I  suppose  if  Mr.  Henderson  desires  to  explain 
anything  about  this  matter,  of  which  he  has  testified,  he  can  do  so  ? 

The  Chairman.  He  can  do  so  if  he  wishes,  further. 

The  Witness.  I  will  explain  further  in  regard  to  this  question  you 
asked  me  relative  to  a  mule.  In  1865  a  man  by  the  name  of  Darr — I 
was  an  officer  in  the  Freedman's  Bureau  at  that  time — had  a  difficulty 
with  one  of  his  negroes.  I  issued  a  summons  and  had  him  brought  be- 
fore me.  The  negro  claimed  that  he  had  not  been  paid  tor  services  he 
had  rendered  to  Darr,  his  former  master,  who  refused  to  paj"  him.  I 
restrained  some  com  to  pay  the  negro  a  reasonable  sum  for  his  services. 
Mr.  Darr  became  furious,  and  afterwards  canie  to  Lexington  to  em- 
ploy a  lawyer,  so  1  understood.  While  at  Tjexiugton — he  lived  eight 
miles  from  town  ;  I  did  not  live  in  Lexington  at  thiit  time — he  stayed 
until  after  night,  and  a  man  by  the  name  of  .Jeremiah  (Jlover  stole  Mr. 
Darr's  mule  that  night,  and  rod<' it  to  High  Point,  arriving  with  the 
mule  the  n<'xt  morning  about  an  hour  by  sun.  He  ottered  to  sell  the 
muh'  to  Mr.  .Icrrold.  .lei-iohl  tohl  iiini  he  did  not  wish  to  buy  it,  and 
pointed  him  out  to  I).  M.  IIen(h'rson,  my  brother,  wlio  was  merchandis- 
ing in  liigii  Point,  lie  olfered  him  to  my  brother,  and  sold  him  the 
u\[iU'.  t'ov  «75  in  gohl.  Tliat  was  lAlr.  I);irr's  testimony  in  court,  that  the 
mule  was  worth  ''*f75.  Levi  1^].  .lohnson,  who  was  (clerking  in  my  broth- 
<m's  store,  paid  (Jlov(!r  for  the  muh\  I).  M.  Henderson  in  a  few  days 
aft(U'war(ls  drove  the  mule  <lown  into  Davidson  (Nmnty,  and  rode  before 
Darr's  house.  Il<' lived  on  tln^  public  road.  Oneof  i\Ir.  J)arr's  neigh- 
bors saw  the  nnile  in  my  brother's  wagon,  and  infornu'd  Mr.  Darr, 
whereupon  Darr  went  to  High  Point  and  demanded  his  proi)erty.  My 
l)rother,  I).  M.  Henderson,  told  liim,  says  he.  "  1  bought  this  mule,  and 


THE    SIXTH    DLSTRICT    O^    NORTH    CAROLINA.  227 

paid  $75  in  gold  for  it.  If  you  will  swear  to  the  ])roperty,  and  can 
prove  it  is  yours,  you  can  have  it."  He  did  so,  got  liis  mule  and  canie. 
bacik  home. 

The  same  day  there  were  two  more  mules  stolen  from  INIr.  Yarboro, 
and  the  evening  that  this  mule  had  been  taken  from  my  biother  I  tele- 
graphed him  to  look  out  for  the  man;  that  perhaps  he  miglit  steal  more 
property  and  bring  it  into  town.  He  carried  the  two  more  mules  that 
were  stolen  from  Yarboro  to  High  Point.  Yarboro  followed  him.  Soon 
after  he  got  into  High  Point  my  brother,  Kuff  Johnson,  and  Alexander 
Smith  arrested  him,  and  when  Y'^arboro  got  there  they  had  him  under 
ariest.  I  telegraphed  to  bring  Glover  to  Lexington.  He  was  brought 
to  Lexington,  and  tried  before  A.  L.  Watson,  and  on  admission  com- 
mitted to  Lexington  jail.  When  court  came  his  trial  was  removed  upon 
affidavit  to  Winston.  He  plead  guilty  when  court  came  in  AVinston, 
and  was  whipped  at  the  public  whipping-post.  This  man  Darr  then 
went  before  the  grand  jury  of  Davidson  County,  and  made  a  charge 
against  me,  and  that  grand  jury  found  a  bill  upon  his  evidence.  The 
foreman  of  the  grand  jury,  Hamilton  Hargraves,  stated  it  was  an  out- 
rage, and  that  the  bill  should  not  have  been  found;  that  there  was  no 
evidence  that  showed  I  had  any  complicity  in  the  matter.  I  was  just 
nominated  for  Congress  in  my  district.  The  State  came  to  trial,  and 
Darr  made  an  affidavit  that  I  was  so  popular  in  my  county  that  the 
State  could  not  get  justice,  and  therefore  the  case  was  removed  to  Salis- 
bury. 

The  State  at  the  coming-  court  was  not  again  ready,  and  the  case  was 
removed  back  to  Lexington.  From  there  it  was  removed  to  Winston. 
The  attorneys  for  the  State,  when  we  pressed  for  trial,  proposed  to  take 
a  }wlle  irros.  My  attorney,  J.  M.  McCorkle,  under  my  directions,  re- 
fused a  nolle  pros. ;  that  the  case  had  to  be  submitted  to  a  jury,  and  the 
testimony  heard.  I  was  asked  the  question  through  my  attorney  if  I 
ol)jected  to  any  of  the  jurors?  My  attorney,  Mr.  McCorkle,  got  up  and 
stated  to  the  court  that  he  did  not  know  a  man  upon  the  jury  and  did 
not  object  to  any  of  them.  He  demanded  of  the  jury  that  if  there  was  a 
scintilla  of  testimony  against  me  I  wanted  a  conviction,  or  a  triumph- 
ant vindication.  Whereupon  the  State  failed  to  i>roduce  any  evidence 
tending  to  show  anj'  complicity  in  the  matter  wlmtever,  after  all  the 
witnesses  were  examined.  Darr  was  marked  prosecutor  upon  the  bill, 
by  the  court,  from  which  he  appealed.  In  volume  64  of  the  supreme 
court  reports  of  the  State  of  North  Carolina  will  be  seen  the  decision 
that  was  rendered,  and  that  the  prosecutor  Darr  paid  all  the  costs,  both 
State's  and  the  defendant's  aud  the  witnesses.  The  jury  was  out  about 
one  minute  ajid  came  in  with  a  verdict  of '' Not  guilty."  Right  here  [ 
will  take  occasion  to  state  that  I  was  informed  by  J.  V.  Summers,  who 
lives  in  Charlotte,  which  I  have  no  idea  he  will  deny,  or  dare  deny,  aud 
look  at  me,  that  there  was  no  evidence  against  me,  but  that  they  thought 
niy  radical  views  were  such  that  with  the  negroes  I  would  rule  the  whole 
country,  and  referred  also  to  the  speech  I  made  on  the  4th  of  July,  1865, 
and  that  I  was  bound  to  be  mashed  up  in  some  way,  and  he  was  one  of 
the  jurors. 

By  Senator  Mitchell  : 
Q.  Which  jury? — A.  Of  the  grand  jury  that  found  the  bill.  He  lives 
in  Charlotte  now.  And  right  there,  also,  Mr.  Summers,  who  stated  to 
me  that  there  had  been  no  testimony  against  me,  had  at  that  time  a 
bill  of  indictment  against  him  for  living  in  fornication  and  adultery 
with  a  negro  woman.     He  went  and  plead  guilty,  paid  costs,  and  that 


228  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

is  ou  the  records  of  the  court;  and  I  will  add  here  that  I  do  not  think 
there  is  a  respectable  man  in  the  State,  either  Democratic  or  Reimbli- 
cau,  who  has  not  sympathized  with  me  and  tliought  1  was  hardly 
treated —  miserably  treated. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  Is  that  all  the  explanation  you  want  to  pnt  in  now  about  that 
matter?— A.  I  believe  it  is. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Was  there  not  an  intense  feeling  of  prejudice  against  the  officers 
of  the  Freedman's  Bureau  at  that  time? — A.  Dreadful. 

Q.  Were  they  not  persecuted  in  every  possible  way  that  did  not  make 
the  man  persecuting  amenable  to  law? — A.  They  were  persecuted  in 
every  possible  and  conceivable  way  that  could  be  done. 

Q.  Did  not  that  prejudice  against  the  officers  of  the  Freedman's 
Bureau  amount  absolutely  to  a  state  of  wild  public  excitement? — A.  In 
many  instances. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  What  has  the  Freedman's  Bureau  to  do  with  it? — A.  I  was  a 
Freedman's  Bureau  officer  when  this  mule  was  stolen  by  Glover. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 
Q.  You  were  saying  you  were  prosecuting  this  man  Darr  to  make 
him  pay  what  was  due  to  his  former  slave  at  the  time  this  thing  oc- 
cured  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  He  was  detained  and  lost  his  mule  in  town  ? — A.  Not  that  night. 
He  came  up  to  Lexington  to  employ  a  lawyer  to  defend  him,  and 
that  night  he  came  into  my  office,  and  staled  that  his  mule  was  gone. 
The  mule  had  been  stolen  by  this  man  Glover,  who  was  whipped  at 
Winston. 

Q.  You  say  you  were  nominated  for  Congress  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
Q,  Were  jou  denounced  upon  the  stump  for  this  matter ? — A.  Was 
I  denounced  ? 

Q.  Yes,  sir;  by  your  opponents  ? — A.  No,  sir;  not  by  my  opponents, 
but  in  the  community  by  the  bitter  element  of  the  Democratic  party. 
They  denounced  me  everywhere. 

Q.  Have  you  continued  to  be  denounced  for  this  matter  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  hounded  down  and  persecuted  dreadfully  for  years  and  years.     I 
have  seen  Governor  Vance  check  it  on  one  occasion  in  Salisbury. 
Q.  Check  the  denunciations  ngjdnst  you? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
(^.  And   that  was  after  you  had  been  acquitted? — A.  After  I  had 
bet'u  acquitted 

i^.  Kegarding  these  books,  what  was  the  date  of  that? — A.  1866  or 
1867,  1  think. 

C^.  And  a  year  or  two  afterwar<ls  that  was  brought  up  against  you 
before  the  supreme  court  judges? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Who  examined  the  candidates  for  license  at  that  time? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

(},.  Aid  ,\()M  j)i()(ln(r('d  tiie  books  in  court? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
(.1.  And  b\  explanation  to  tiie  court  showed  tlui  cliai'ge  was  false? — 
A.  Yes,  sii';  showed  tiiecliarge,  was  falser  from  tlie  fact  that  Mr.  Kit- 
trell,  wiiom  I  studied  law  under,  liad  studied  hiw  under  Judge  Pearson, 
ami  .Judge  reais(»n  knew  liis  liandwrit ing,  and  tliere  in  the  volume 
wiiii'h  I  iiroiiglit  into  court  was  Kittreli's  name  on  the  inside  and  out- 
side, and  -Judge   i'earson  remarked,  ''Tiiis  is  all  right.     There  has  not 


THE    8IXTII    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  229 

been  a  fiy-leaf  taken.  Every  tiy-leaf  is  hero."  And  my  name  don't  ap* 
])ear  anywhere  in  tlie  books,  bnt  Kittrell's  name  does. 

Q.  Judge  Pearson  was  clnef  justice  at  tliat  time? — A.  He  was  chief 
justice. 

Q.  Did  he  not  say  tliat  the  man  who  brought  that  charge  ought  to  be 
re])rimanded  ? — A.  That  he  (mght  to  be  nnfro(;ked. 

Q.  Who  brought  that  cliarge? — A.   I  don't  know. 

(^>.  What  (h)  you  mean  by  being  unfrocked  ? — A.  His  license  taken 
from  liim. 

Adjourned  until  10  a.  m.  Monday,  July  10,  1882. 


Washington,  D.  C,  July  10,  1882. 
The  committee  met  at  10  a.  m. 

William  F.  Henderson,  was  allowed  to  file,  as  a  part  of  his  testi- 
nmny,  the  following  report  of  case  and  decision  of  the  supreme  court 
of  the  State  of  North  Carolina  (volume  63,  page  516,  N.  C.  Reports) : 

State  v.  Henry  C.  Darr. 

The  prosecutor  upon  au  indic(ment  for  stealing  a  nuile,  found  at  fall  terra  1807,  and 
tried  at  spring  term  1869,  may  upon  proper  certiticate  by  the  .judge  below  be 
ordered  by  him  to  pay  the  costs  of  the  case. 

State  V.  Lumbrick,  1  Car.,  L.  R.,  543,  and  State  v.  Luptou,  atthis  term', 

cited  and  ap]>roved. 

Order  to  pay  costs  made  by  Cloud,  J.,  at  spring  term  1869  of  the 
su])erior  court  of  Forsyth. 

The  defendant  was  indorsed  as  prosecutor  on  a  bill  of  indictment 
for  larceny  of  a  mule,  found  at  fall  term  1867.  On  the  trial  there  was 
a  verdict  of  "not  guilty,"  and  the  prisoner  was  discharged.  After- 
ward his  honor,  the  judge  presiding,  having  certified  that  there  was  not 
reasonable  ground  for  the  prosecution,  and  that  it  was  not  required  by 
the  public  interest,  but  was  frivolous  and  malicious,  on  motion,  it  was 
ordered  that  the  prosecutor,  Fleury  C.  Darr,  pay  all  costs  of  the  cause, 
to  be  taxed  by  the  clerk,  including  all  the  witnesses  sworn  for  the  de- 
fendants, as  the  judge  certified  that  all  of  them  were  necessary  wit- 
nesses. 

From  this  order  Darr  appealed. 

Phillips  &  Merrimon,  for  the  appellant. 

Attorney- General,  contra. 

Eeade,  J.  The  oft'ence  charged,  larceny,  was  one  "of  an  inferior  na- 
ture" within  the  meaning  of  the  statute,  Rev.  Code,  ch.  35,  sec.  37, 
which  authorizes  the  court  to  make  the  prosecutor  pay  the  costs  where 
the  defendant  is  acquitted,  aud  the  prosecution  "  appears  to  be  frivolous 
or  malicious."     (State  v.  Lumbrick,  1  Car.,  L.  R.,  543.) 

It  appeared  to  his  honor  that  "tliere  was  not  reasonable  ground  for 
the  prosecution,  and  that  it  was  not  required  by  the  public  interest, 
and  was  'frivolous  and  malicious.'"  If,  then,  the  case  were  governed 
by  the  law  as  it  stood  when  the  offence  was  charged  to  have  been  com- 
mitted, or  when  the  indictment  was  found,  as  was  contended  for  by 
the  prosecutor,  he  might  properly  be  made  to  pay  the  costs.     But  the 


230  COLLECTION    OF    INTEUNAL    REVENUE    IN 

case  falls  under  the  ('.  C.  P.,  §  560,  which  was  in  force  at  the  time  of 
the  trial  and  which  provides  that  in  any  criminal  action,  for  whatever 
grade  of  offence,  the  prosecutor,  if  one  is  marked  on  the  bill,  may  be 
ordered  to  pay  costs,  "  when  the  judge  shall  certify  that  there  was  not 
reasonable  ground  for  the  prosecution,  and  that  it  was  not  required  by 
the  public  interest."  (State  v.  Lumpton,at  this  term.)  It  was  therefore 
jjroper  in  this  case  to  make  the  defendant,  who  was  the  prosecutor  in 
the  case  in  which  the  order  was  made,  pay  the  costs.  There  was  no 
error  in  the  judgement  appealed  from. 

This  will  be  certified,  &c. 

Per  Curiam.  Judgement  affirmed. 

The  following  witness  was  called  in  behalf  of  Dr.  Mott. 

W.  J.  CoiTE,  sworn  and  examined. 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  Where  do  you  reside  ? — Answer.  Statesville,  North  Caro- 
lina. 

Q.  What  is  your  occupation  ? — A.  I  am  deputy  collector  of  internal 
revenue. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  in  the  revenue  service  1 — A.  As  deputy 
collector  since  March,  1875.  Previous  to  that  time  as  a  clerk  in  the 
Internal  Eevenue  Bureau  for  three  or  four  years  in  this  city. 

Q.  You  mean  in  the  Commissioner's  office  ? — A.  The  Commissioner's 
oflfice ;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Are  you  generally  occupied  around  the  office  of  the  collector  in 
Statesville  ? — A.  Altogether. 

Q.  I  want  you  to  state  in  the  first  place  whether  ^ill  the  monej'  that 
is  collected  is  sent  here,  and  how  the  expenses  are  paid  afterwards  ? — 
A.  All  the  money  that  is  collected  is  sent  to  Washington  through  the 
jtublic  depository — the  Raleigh  National  Bank — and  the  expenses  are 
paid  by  check  sent  from  the  Commissioner's  office  to  the  collector.  The 
two  things  are  totally  different. 

Q.  Those  checks  are  sent  upon  the  basis  of  an  allowarice  made  at  the 
beginning  of  the  fiscal  year? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  and  upon  the  request  of  the 
collector. 

Q.  For  the  current  month  an  estimate  is  made  by  him  of  what  will 
be  needed  to  pay  the  officers  on  duty,  based  upon  the  allowance  bj^the 
Commissioner.  But  that  request  is  based  upon  an  allowance  that  is 
made  by  the  bureau  at  the  beginning  of  the  fiscal  year  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  It  has  been  (iharged  in  tlie  newspapers,  and  otherwise,  that  the 
revenue  ollicers  of  the  sixth  distri(;t  have  been  in  the  iiabit  of  collecting 
revenue  and  keejung  as  much  as  they  wanted  tluMiiselves,  and  sending 
as  much  as  they  pleased  to  the  Covernment  of  the  United  States'? — A. 
That  is  not  so,  and  could  not  be  so,  as  it  is  contrary  to  law. 

Q.  Fi'om  your  statement,  now  that  could  not  be  done  to  the  amount 
of  a  single  dollar  ? — A.  No,  sii" ;  not  to  the  anu^unt  of  a  single  cent. 

Q.  In  the  year  i.SSO  there  was  a  consideiable  increase  in  the  ex{)enses 
of  tin?  distri(3t,  charged  to  \m  an  increase  of  .|(»5,()()0,  1  think.  I  saw  it 
Homewlicres,  and  I  would  be  glad  if  you  would  explain  to  the  commit- 
tee, in  your  own  way,  how  that  occurre<l,  and  for  what  purjjose,  aiulall 
about  if  '! — A.  It  was  occasioiMMl  by  the  increase  of  the  number  of  small 
dislillcrics  in  the  <lislri<'t.  Thci'*'  had  been  a.  hu'gi'  numbrr  of  illicit  dis- 
tilh'iics  Ihcrc,  and  a  gicat  uiany  cases  on  (he  dockets  of  the  United 
Stales  couils  ;  and  I  he  Couimissioner  of  I  ntcrnal  Revenue  and  the  col- 
Iccfoi-,  together  with  the  legal  oflieers,  agreed  to  amnesty  these  illegal 
distillers,  provided  they  put  u|>  legal  ones.  Th(^  result  was  the  number 
of  (list  illeiies  increased  \('r\   hirgelN.      I  have  a  memoraiidiim  here 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA,  231 

Q.  Refresh  your  memory  by  your  memorandum. — A.  It  increased  the 
number  from  59  to  198 ;  then  the  subsequent  year  to  237  ;  after  that  to 
32(J.     Each  of  these  were  snuill  distilleries  running. 

Q.  What  time  does  that  embrace  I — A.  Those  were  all  subsequent 
years ;  one  year  after  the  other— 1878,  1879,  1880,  and  1881. 

Q.  I  am  talking  about  tlie  year  1880.  I  want  to  account  for  the  in- 
crease in  that  particular  year. — A.  It  was  occasioned  by  the  same 
cause;  it  increased  to  237  that  year.  The  distilleries  were  running 
then.  A  great  many  were  allowed  to  run  at  a  capacity  of  three  bush- 
els, or  three  and  a  half  bushels,  ])er  day,  and  the  production  was  not 
over  two  gallojis  to  the  bushel,  making  an  income  of  $7.20  per  day. 
From  that  the  expense  of  tbe  store  keepers  {$',>  a  day)  had  to  be  paid. 
That  is  the  reason  why  the  increase  of  exi)enses  was  proportionately 
larger  than  the  increase  in  receipts.  In  1879, 198  distilleries  were  oper- 
ating, and  the  store-keepers  were  paid  ninety-eight  thousand  odd  dol- 
lars. In  1880,  237  were  running,  and  the  store-keepers  were  paid  one 
hundred  and  sixty-one  thousand  odd  dollars. 

Q.  That  nmde  the  |G5,000  increase?— A.  Yes,  sir;  but  the  increase 
in  collections  was  proportionately  greater — that  is,  in  the  income  to  the 
government — although  nuire  was  paid  out  apparently  for  the  pay  of 
store-keepers.  In  the  year  1879  $336,000  was  collected,  and  in  1880 
$457,000. 

Q,  From  what  you  say,  then,  the  gOYernment  does  not  lose  money 
by  the  increase  in  the  number  of  the  distilleries,  but  rather  makes 
money  by  the  oijeration  f — Ji.  The  government  has  made  money;  yes, 
sir, 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  Dr.  Mott,  previous  to  that  time,  had  ex- 
erted all  the  diligence  in  his  power  to  break  up  these  illicit  distilleries 
through  his  district  ? — A.  I  know  he  had. 

Q.  A  great  many  were  broken  up  ? — A.  A  great  many  were  broken 
up. 

Q.  But  a  great  many  still  continued  ? — A.  But  it  was  not  entirely 
suppressed. 

Q.  By  this  operation  they  became  legal  distilleries,  and  increased  in 
number? — A.  To  a  certain  extent. 

Q.  You  have  heard  a  great  deal  about  store-keepers  dividing  their 
pay  with  distillers ;  the  rumors  as  to  such  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  known  an  instance  of  that  at  all  while  in  ofiice'? — 
A.  I  have  never  known  an  instance.  I  know  the  collector  endeavored 
to  find  an  instance  and  to  secure  evidence  which  would  warrant  him  in 
proceeding  either  against  the  distiller  or  store-keeper  who  so  divided, 
but  he  was  uuable  to  do  so.  It  therefore  resolves  itself  into  a  mere 
rumor,  so  far  as  the  of&ce  is  concerned. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  been  able  to  detect  any  single  individual  at  it  ? — 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  I  understood  you  to  say  just  now  that  the  expenses  were  paid  in 
the  district  by  checks  sent  from  here ;  that  is,  the  collector  was  not  al- 
lowed to  pay  for  salaries  at  all  from  his  collections  ? — A.  None  what- 
ever. 

Q.  There  is  no  instance  whatever  in  which  he  can  pay  from  collec- 
tions ? — A.  Not  a  cent. 

Q.  How  many  counties  are  there  in  that  district  ? — A.  Thirty-four. 

Q.  Are  they  large  couuties? — A.  Yes,  sir;  very  large.  The  area 
from  one  end  of  the  district — from  east  to  west — is  about  four  hundred 
miles,  I  should  think. 


232  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  How  wide  is  it? — A.  It  is  probably  two  liundred  and  fifty  to 
three  hundred  miles  wide  from  north  to  south  in  its  widest  part. 

Q.  Does  that  embrace  the  mountain  region  of  North  Carolina  ? — A. 
Mostly  all  mountain. 

Q.  Both  the  Blue  Eidge  and  Alleghany  Mountains  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  Cherokee  in  that  district  ? — A.  Cherokee  is  in  the  district,  the 
uttermost  western  end,  and  Union  County  is  the  uttermost  eastern 
limit. 

Q.  About  how  far  this  side  of  the  Blue  Eidge  does  it  commence  ? — 
A.  Salisbury,  I  think,  is  one  hundred  and  ten  miles  from  Asheville,  and 
I  think  Asheville  is  about  one  hundred  miles  this  side  of  the  Blue 
Eidge. 

Q.  This  embraces  the  Piedmont  country,  then  the  Blue  Eidge  range 
of  country  between  there  and  the  Alleghanies,  and  runs  into  the  Al- 
leghany Mountains  on  the  Tennessee  line? — A.  All  the  way  to  the 
Tennessee  line. 

Q.  Is  it  a  very,  difticult  district  to  get  entrance  to  in  the  various 
localities  "?— A.  Yes,  sir;  very  few  facilities,  except  on  horseback. 

Q.  The  roads  are  bad  ? — A.  The  mountain  roads  are  very  bad,  and 
the  distilleries  are  mostly  located  in  those  mountains. 

Q.  Were  there  more  violations  of  law  five,  six,  or  seven  years  ago 
than  there  are  now  in  that  district ;  has  there  been  any  improvement  ? — 
A.  I  think  there  were  more.  In  fact  I  know  there  were.  The  dockets 
of  the  court  and  the  records  of  the  office  i)rove  there  were  more, 

Q.  There  has  been  a  general  improvement  in  that  district,  has 
there  ? — A.  A  very  decided  im])rovement. 

Q.  You  know  the  character  of  the  officers  under  Dr.  Mott — I  mean 
his  subordinates — can  you  state  Mhether  the  character  of  those  sub- 
ordinates is. good,  bad,  or  what  ? — A.  Generally  very  good.  The  doctor 
had  a  system  of  making  ajipointments  that  would  warrant  the  char- 
acter of  the  men,  especially  if  he  did  not  know  them,  by  requiring  from 
each  one  not  only  an  application  for  the  office,  but  an  indorsement 
from  the  citizens  and  well-known  people  of  the  neighborhood,  of  his 
acquaintance,  and  especially  if  he  did  not  know  them  personally,  he 
got  a  guarantee  of  their  character,  and  if  he  found  them  out  at  any 
time  to  be  unworthy,  either  by  character  or  habits,  the  invariable  rule 
was  to  dismiss  them. 

Q.  Did  he  allow  them  to  drink  ? — A.  He  issued  an  order  in  1876 
against  drinking,  warning  any  man  who  drank  that  he  would  dismiss 
him,  and  he  has  kept  the  ordei-  in  force  ever  since,  so  far  as  I  know — 
so  far  as  rejtorts  have  been  made  to  me. 

Q.  Y(ni  were  a  good  while  employed  in  the  Internal  Eevenue  Bu- 
reau in  Washington  '! — A.  1  was  for  about  three  years. 

Q.  v\.nd  gained  a  great  deal  of  experience  in  the  working  of  the  rev- 
enue system  in  other  districts  of  the  United  States  by  observation? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  yon  were  en)])loyed  down  there  as  Dr.  Mott's  chief  deputy 
in  l-ST"),  ;ind  have  been  therc!  ever  since? — A.  1  was  hisdei)ntyin  187.">, 
and  his  cliicr  (h'piily  a1  a  snbsccpiciit  date  ii|)  to  the  time  when  he  re- 
signed. 

i).   Wlicrc  is  your  uatixc  i»la<!e  i — A.   Mew  York  City. 

(i^.  ^'<tu  iuisc  cxphiincd  tiic  increas(»  of  ISSO.  Was  it  nor  cliargcd  in 
the  n<'ws]»ap('is  and  upon  tlie  stump  in  ISSO,  and  since  that  time  has 
if  not  been  persistently  chaigcd,  cvcii  up  to  the  institution  of  tiiis  com- 
miltee,  that  llial  inerease  oC  *(».">, (KHMbr  expenses  was  used  for  politi- 
cal |»urp(>ses  '.  —  A.  I  have  heard  il  eharged,  and  saw  a  statement  to 
that  eti'ecl   in  I  lie  press. 


THE    8IXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  233 

Q.  Did  you  hear  an  iiivestij^atioii  tLreatened  into  the  matter  in  the 
State — into  the  use  of  that  $05,000  for  political  purposes'? — A.  I  have 
lieard  that,  and  have  seen  it  in  the  papers  to  that  effect,  that  an  in- 
vestigation was  to  be  made ;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Was  to  be  made  by  Congress! — A.  By  Congress  ;  yes,  sir.  And 
I  liave  seen  the  resolutions  introduced,  not  only  in  the  House,  but  in 
the  Senate,  to  that  etfect. 

Q.  And  you  say  there  was  not  a  word  of  truth  in  it;  nor  was  it  pos- 
sible for  anytliing  of  that  kind  to  occur  under  the  revenue  law  and  the 
regulations  ? — A.  You  probably  refer  to  the  statenu^nt  that  the  money 
was  i)aid  from  the  collections  ;  there  is  no  truth  in  that  statement, 
whatever,  and  it  is  impossible  for  anj^  truth  to  be  in  tliat  statement. 

Q.  How  did  the  |G5,000  increase  couie  to  be  incurred  ? — A.  Through 
the  increase  of  the  distilleries  and  the  consequent  increase  in  the  num- 
ber of  store-keepers  at  these  distilleries. 

Q.  But  it  had  no  connection  whatever  with  i)olitical  purposes  in  any 
shai)e  or  form? — A.  None  whatever,  so  far  as  1  could  judge. 

Q.  I  wish  you  would  explain  what  is  the  duty  of  a  general  store- 
keeper as  distinguished  from  a  store-keeper  and  ganger? — A.  The  duty 
of  a  general  store-keeper  is  to  take  charge  of  suspended  distilleries 
when  there  is  less  than  2,00. t  gallons  in  each  warehouse,  respectively. 

Q.  And  the  appointment  is  made  for  the  puri)ose  of  saving  to  the 
government  the  per  diem  exi)ense  of  a  regular  store-keeper  at  that  dis- 
tiller}^ when  nnder  suspensitui  ? — A.  The  general  store-keeper  has  some- 
times a  large  number — from  three  to  twenty  distillery  warehouses,  each 
containing  less  than  2,000  gallons  of  whisky.  He  is  paid  $4  a  day  for 
the  general  charge,  and  if  a  store-keeper  was  put  at  each  of  these  dis- 
tilleries he  would  be  i)aid  $3  a  day  at  each  one.  The  government 
therefore  saves  the  difference  in  the  number  of  warehouses  taken  up 
by  him. 

Q.  Is  the  collector's  district  divided  up  in  divisions  ? — A.  So  far  as 
the  divisions  of  general  store-keepers  are  concerned  it  is.  At  first  there 
were  three  employed ;  as  the  distilleries  grew  the  number  was  in- 
creased ;  the  Commissioner  appointed  two  more,  and  as  they  still  be- 
came more  numerous,  and  suspended  at  times,  and  the  duties  became 
more  onerous,  two  more  were  appointed,  until  now  seven  are  acting  in 
that  capacity. 

Q.  Mr.  Drake,  at  Statesville,  is  one  of  them  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  has  he  been  a  general  store-keeper? — A.  About  four  or 
five  years.     I  am  unable  to  say  definitely'  without  the  record  before  me. 

Q.  Some  intimations  have  been  made  in  the  investigation  that  he  has 
not  attended  to  his  duties  properly.  Will  you  state  whether  he  has  or 
not? — A.  Yes;  so  far  as  I  am  a  judge,  he  has  attended  to  his  duty  prop- 
erly and  promptly. 

Q.  You  are  in  a  position, to  know  whether  he  does  discharge  his  du- 
ties or  not  ? — A.  I  think  so. 

Q.  He  lives  in  Statesville,  where  you  reside? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  States- 
ville. That  statement  probably  -arose  from  the  fact  where  a  general 
store-keeper  has  from  ten  to  a  dozen  or  fifteen  warehouses  in  his  charge, 
and  two  men  twenty  miles  apart  desire  to  tax-pay  or  withdraw  whisky 
on  the  same  day;  the  general  store-keei)er  is  only  able  to  go  to  one  of 
them,  and  it  has  been  in  some  cases  the  custom  to  appoint  or  delegate 
his  duties  to  another  qualified  or  sworn  store-keeper,  in  order  to  satisfy 
or  accommodate  the  tax-])ayer.  I  know  no  other  way  in  which  Mr. 
Drake  did  not  jierform  his  duty  except  that. 

Q.  It  was  impossible  for  him  to  go  to  two  distilleries  on  the  same  day 
twenty  miles  apart? — A.  Physically  impossible. 


234  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  It  was  not  only  a  convenience  to  tlie  tax-payer  for  him  to  get  an 
assistant  to  help  him  in  a  case  of  that  kind,  but  was  it  not  to  the  tax- 
payer's interest  in  a  business  way,  as  otherwise  he  might  lose  a  sale,  or 
something  of  that  sort? — A.  I  think  that  is  very  i)robable  of  a  party 
selling  merchandise  should  he  not  deliver  it  on  time  according  to  agree- 
ment, and  was  delayed  in  it  l)y  the  operation  of  the  government  officer. 
He  would  probably  blame  the  office  for  not  attending  to  the  business 
sooner. 

Q.  Was  there  any  impropriety  at  all,  in  your  judgment,  in  Mr.  Drake 
doing  that  ? — A.  I  don't  think  there  was,  especially  as  his  duty  was 
performed  by  another  sworn  and  bonded  officer  of  the  United  States, 
withont  extra  expense  to  the  United  States. 

Q.  Was  it  not  the  wish  of  the  collector  and  his  instructions  that  these 
distillers  should  be  accommodated  in  every  reasonable  way  ? — A.  He 
lias  always  endeavored  to  accommodate  them,  and  so  expressed  his  wish 
that  th"3'  should  be  in  every  reasonable  and  legal  way. 

Q.  And  such  practices  as  that  you  mention  of  Mr.  Drake  sending  on 
these  occasions  some  one  in  his  place  was  for  the  accommodation  and 
interest  of  the  tax-payers  ? — A.  Solely. 

Q.  Is  Mr.  Drake  a  man  of  character  ? — A.  Of  the  very  highest,  sir. 

Q.  From  what  you  learned  in  the  Internal  Keveuue  Bureau  at  Wash- 
ington, from  observation  or  otherwise,  and  from  what  yon  have  learned 
from  your  experience  down  there  in  the  sixth  district  in  regard  to  special 
agents  sent  out  to  make  investigations  and  reports,  I  wish  you  to  state 
whether  it  is  not  the  usual  cnstom  and  practice  with  tliese  special  agents 
to  make  loose  and  ill-considered  re]>orts. — A.  I  would  not  like  to  say  it 
is  their  iiractice.     I  know  very  many  cases  in  which  they  have  done  so. 

Q.  Given  common  rumors  ? — A.  Common  rumors ;  yes,  sir ;  without 
foundation  and  fact. 

Q.  Do  you  know  instances  in  which  they  would  report  a  mere  flying' 
rumor  without  investigating  it,  or  without  what  you  would  call  an  ade- 
quate investigation? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  know  several. 

Q.  Do  3"ou  know  an  instance  where,  upon  investigation,  it  turned  out 
to  be  nothing! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  These  special  agents  have  a  sort  of  pride  in  making  voluminous 
and  high  sounding  reports,  do  they  not? — A.  Speaking  for  them,  I  am 
not  able  to  sa\ .  I  should  judge  so,  though,  from  the  nature  of  some  of 
the  reports  emanating  from  them. 

Q.  From  the  sixth  district? — A.  Yes,  sir;  very  recently.  I  have 
known  of  instances  where  their  reports  were  made,  and  contained  innu- 
endo, and  have  occasioned  a  great  deal  of  trouble  in  consequence  of 
that,  without  any  foundation  in  fact.  I  have  discovered  that  in  my 
own  case. 

Q.  l''rom  your  observation  and  experience  in  this  matter,  if  you  saw 
in  the  department  a  report  of  a  special  agent  in  regard  to  any  matter 
in  the  distiiet,  where  they  W(n'e  sent  to  investigate  it,  would  you  give 
much  (Tedeiice  or  lia\-e  miieh  eonlidence  in  it? — A.  In  the  agent's 
report  .' 

().  \'es,  sir. — A.  It  would  depend  greatly  upon  the  agent  who  nmde 
the  rep(trt.  'IMie  majority  of  those  1  havebeeoiiH*  aecpiainted  with  since 
7iiy  ollieial  duties  in  the  sixth  district  of  North  Carolina  commenced  I 
would  not  gi\(^  luueli  eredenee  to. 

(^.  'I'hey  <lraw  upou  I  heir  iuiagiu.il  ions  ? — A.  To  a  great  extent,  and 
from  hearsay. 

Q.  And  enlargeeveu  upou  I  he  rumors  somh'I  iines  ? — A.  I  liavekuown 
of  such  cases. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NOKTH    CAROLINA.  285 

Q.  They  iiiaj^iiify  the  re])oits  and  the  importance  of  tlie  woik  they 
have  done  ? — A.  Their  object  is  to  make  a  \n^  report.  l*robaI>ly  that 
is  one  reason  why  they  do  it. 

Q.  The  office  of  a  store-keeper  and  ganger  is  a  very  im])ortant  office  in 
the  coUection  of  revenue f — A.  Yes,  sir,  and  faitlilul  oflicers  arc  \'erv 
important  to  be  had. 

Q.  You  found  a  great  many  distillers  in  tliat  district  i<j;norant  men 
— the  great  body  of  them  are  ignorant  men.  and  not  acquainted  with 
business  ? — A.  The  majority  of  the  distillers  are  so. 

Q.  The  storekeepers  are  a  good  deal  of  service  to  them,  helping  them 
to  make  out  their  accounts,  and  showing  them  how  to  keep  their  busi- 
]iess  in  official  shai)e  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  1  think  they  do,  to  a  great  extent, 
try  to  keep  them  straight. 

Q.  Is  it  not  a  good  deal  of  an  adv^antage  to  a  distiller  to  have  a 
store-keeper  of  sueh  a  cai)acity  ? — A.  Of  iutelligeuce,  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Of  capacity  f — A.  Yes,  sir,  because  he  is  able  to  keep  the  accounts 
straight,  reports,  «S:c.,  and  save  him  from  what  otherwise  would  occur, 
assessments  for  spirits  not  produced  and  material  used  in  excess. 

Q.  is  it  not  to  the  interest  of  the  government  to  enable  the  distiller 
to  ha\e  an  intelligent  store-keeper  f — A.  Always  considered  in  the 
interests  of  the  government  that  he  shall  have  an  intelligent  and 
proper  man. 

Q.  Yon  have  seen  the  assignment  of  store-keepers  in  that  district, 
and  are  conversant  with  the  reasons  wh;s'  they  were  sent,  one  to  one 
place  and  one  to  another,  are  you  not  ?  Do  you  know  that  these  dis- 
tdlers  sometimes  have  prejudices  against  certain  store-keepers"? — A. 
I  know  they  have,  because  such  reports  very  often  are  made  by  a  dis- 
tiller to  the  collector's  office;  that  he  had  a  jiersonal  feeling  or  prejudice 
against  such  a  man  ;  could  not  operate  with  him  ;  could  not  work  har- 
moniously with  him. 

Q.  And  you  know,  in  addition,  that  it  is  a  very  common  thing  for 
distillers  to  ask  for  competent  men  to  help  at  such  distilleries  in  making 
out  their  accounts,  &c.? — A.  It  is  a  frequent  request  at  the  office  that 
such  a  man  should  be  sent  to  them. 

Q.  Has  Dr.  Mott  given  that  matter  his  careful  attention  ? — A. 
Always  did,  so  far  as  I  know.  Always  endeavored  to  satisfy  the  tax- 
])ayers  in  every  way  and  shape  as  he  could  without  prejudicing  the 
interests  of  the  government  by  putting  men  there  that  he  would  be 
satisfied  would  not  be  in  collusion  with  the  distiller ;  and  he  endeav- 
ored to  stop  all  collusion;  where  he  suspected  it  to  be  the  case  he 
would  take  a  store-keeper  frv)m  that  place. 

Q.  Where  there  was  any  report  or  suspicion  of  collusion? — A. 
Wherever  he  susj)ected  it,  though  he  had  no  positive  evidence. 

Q.  And  where  he  had  none  of  these  suspicions  or  no  reports  about  a 
store-keeper,  he  endeavored  to  suit — when  he  could  do  so  consistent 
with  the  iHiblic  service — the  wishes  and  conveniences  of  the  distill- 
ers ? — A.  Always;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  It  was  common,  then,  for  the  distillers  to  ask  for  store -keepers 
that  they  tliought  would  be  of  service  to  them  in  looking  after  affairs, 
their  accounts,  and  helping  them  about  the  distilleries  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  Did  it  come  to  be  a  feeling  among  the  distillers  that  it  was  part 
of  the  duty  of  a  store-keeper  to  help  them  in  this  way  ? — A.  They  seemed 
to  have  that  idea — that  the  government  paid  a  store-keeper  to  help  them 
and  keep  them  straight. 

Q.  Did  they  come  and  complain  sometimes  that  the  store-keepers 
would  not  give  them  that  assistance,  and  ask  for  their  removal  on  that 


236  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    JN 

account? — A.  I  bave  liearfi  one  or  two  complaints  of  tliat  nature,  but 
not  generally. 

Q.  When  they  asked  for  a  change  of  store-keepers,  as  they  sometimes 
did.  and  asked  for  particular  store-keepers,  was  that  the  ground  \i\nm 
which  they  put  their  request '? — A.  Either  that  or  ])ersonal  dislike  to  the 
store-keeper,  or  somethiug-  of  that  nature — it  could  be  termed  of  that 
nature ;  they  looked  at  it  in  that  way. 

Q.  Xow,  generally,  since  you  have  been  in  that  ofUce,  I  want  to  ask 
you  whether  you  know  of  any  instance  of  official  miscojiduct  on  the 
])art  of  Dr.  Mott  ? — A.  I  know  of  none. 

Q.  In  his  endeavoring  to  accommodate  these  distillers  in  the  assign- 
ment of  store-keepers,  and  in  the  appointment  of  his  subordinate  offi- 
cers, or  in  any  way,  have  you  ever  seen  him  influenced,  or  appear  to 
be  iuflnenced,  in  your  judgment,  by  other  than  correct  and  upright 
motives  for  the  interests  of  the  service  ? — A.  I  know  of  no  case  that  I 
considered  he  was  actuated  by  any  other  motives  whatever. 

Q.  Has  he  manifested  solicitude  and  care  in  the  sek^.ction  of  his  offi- 
cers ? — A.  He  always  appeared  to  give  it  his  personal  attention,  and 
looked  out  for  officers  that  would  best  preserve  the  interests  of  the 
service  and  perform  their  duties,  and  he  has  also  given  instructions  to 
his  officers  tbat  the  interests  of  the.tax-payers  should  be  looked  after, 
and  that  they  should  be  kept  straight,  ratlier  than  oppressed. 

Q.  It  appeared,  then,  to  be  his  wish  to  make  the  service  as  po])ular 
as  he  could,  consistent  with  the  interests  of  the  government"? — A.  That 
has  been  his  exi)ress  desire.  I  have  heard  him  so  express  himself  re- 
peatedly. 

Q.  Has  he  succeeded  ? — A.  I  think  he  has,  sir.  It- would  appear  so 
from  events. 

Q.  In  improving  the  state  of  public  feeling  in  regard  to  the  service 
generally? — A.  There  is  a  better  feeling  now  than  six  years  ago,  when 
I  went  there. 

Cross-examination  by  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  When  did  you  take  charge  as  chief  deputy,  or  in  any  capacity 
as  deputy  ? — A.  I  was  at  the  office  of  Dr.  Mott  as  deputy  collector  in 
March,  1875  or  1876  ;  I  do  not  exactly  remember  which;  I  will  say  1875. 

Q.  You  say  that  the  office  exi)enses  are  not  paid  out  of  the  moneys 
collected  by  the  office  ? — A.  I  do,  sir. 

Q.  Tliat  this  is  separate  and  allowed  by  the  department,  and  checked 
upon  entirely  separate  from  the  collections. — A.  1  do,  sir ;  the  collec- 
tions ar<'  sent  to  the  department,  and  the  department  sends  a  separate 
check  for  the  office  expenses. 

().  How  was  that  paid — your  own  salary,  for  instance,  or  any  other 
<l('piit>  or  giiuger ;  how  was  that  paid  to  him  ? — A.  The  gangers  are  i)aid 
(litrcrcntly  from  tlie  other  officeis,  l)ut  the  store-keepers' and  deputies' 
salariiis  ar(^  ])aid  by  check  u])oii  tlic  public  depository,  which  is  the 
lialcigh  National  liaidc. 

(}.  Why  is  that;  why  cannot  the  collector  just  pay  out  of  the  money 
coll('(;f('d,  if  h('s;iw  i)ropcr? — A.  Because  it  is  contrary  to  the  law  and 
r«'gMlations. 

Q.  v\n<l  thiit  (rheck  is  a  voucher  for  the  discharge  of  the  debt  against 
the  gov<'rnnuMit  '! — A.  No,  sir;  the  che(;k  is  no  voucher  whatevei'. 

Q.  Are  these  cliecks  pi'eserve<l  ? — A.   1  jtresunu^  so. 

Q.   Are  tlii-y  filed  here — not  sent  here  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

(}.  Where  ar(Hiiey  preservefl  ?— A.  At  IJaleifli  ;  they  are  the  ]U'ivate 
]»i-o|»eity  of  the  colIe<',tor,  and  if  he  desires,  it  is  the  same  as  any  other 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  237 

pel  son's  private  accoiiiit.    lie  can  withdraw  lii.s  own  checks  if  he  so  de- 
sires. 

Q.  He  woukl  require  to  check,  then,  for  his  office  expenses  ? — A.  On 
the  <lepository. 

(^,  How  long'  has  that  been  the  custom  ? — A.  Ever  since  I  have  known 
the  revenue  hiw. 

f?  Q.  Udv.k   as  far  as  1873  ? — A.  In   tliat  district  I  cannot  speak  pre- 
vious to  1875 — what  was  done  previous  to  that  time. 

Q.  1  understood  that  you  had  an  expei'ienceinthe  revenue  (U^partinent 
before  you  went  there. — A.  In  the  department  here. 

Q.  You  cannot  tell  whether  tliat  custom  was  in  existence  in  1873? — 
A.  No,  sir;  for  the  reason  that  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue  can 
give  permission  to  the  collector  to  keep  disbursing  funds  in  his  possession, 
and  check  upon  them  at  his  i)rivate  bank  if  he  so  desires;  but  since  I  have 
been  in  the  district  the  disbursing  funds  and  vouchers  have  been  kept 
in  the  public  dei)ository. 

Q.  When  did  this  operation  of  allowing  small  distilleries  to  go  into 
effect — when  did  that  begin? — A.  I  think  the  amnesty  was  extended 
at  the  November  term  of  court  1879,  if  I  am  not  mistaken — either  No- 
vember, 1879,  or  April,  1880. 

Q.  And  you  say  that  that  increased  the  number  of  stills,  and  conse- 
quently increased  the  number  of  store-keepers  to  each  still,  and  that 
accounts  tor  the  increase  in  the  cost  of  the  collection  of  revenue  in 
that  district? — A.  I  w^ould  not  put  it  as  an  increase  m  the  cost  of  col- 
lection, but  as  an  increase  in  the  cost  of  the  expenses  of  the  district. 

Q.  Is  that  not  the  same  thing ! — A.  It  might  be  termed  so. 

Q.  That  is  what  I  mean;  that  accounts  for  the  increased  expenses 
of  the  district,  and  that  began  in  the  fall  of  1879,  or  the  spring  of  1880  ? 
— A.  I  think  the  fall — the  November  term  of  1879,  at  the  time  of  the 
amnesty. 

Q.  Who  was  that  amnesty  proclaimed  by  °? — A.  By  the  judge  of  the 
court. 

Q.  Had  the  department  there  anything  to  do  with  it? — A.  Yes,  sir, 
the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Kevenue. 

Q.  He  authorized  the  judge? — A.  Yes,  sir,  and  the  collector  and 
other  officials  consnlted  about  it,  and  deemed  it  best;  and  also  an- 
other reason  for  the  increase  was  the  decision  of  the  Commissioner  of 
Internal  Revenue  reducing  the  capacity  of  the  stills  of  these  little  dis- 
tilleries. 

Q.  I  understood  that  that  was  the  same  thing. — A.  They  had  been 
held  to  six  bushels  per  day.  It  was  a  current  statement  there  that  a 
poor  man  could  not  run.  That  also  w^is  an  inducement  by  the  collec- 
tor and  commissioner,  upon  consultation,  to  allow  them  to  run  at  smaller 
capacity,  which  was  fixed  at  about  three  or  three  and  a  half  bushels 
l)er  (lay. 

Q.  That  capacity  enabled  the  men  wdio  were  blockading  and  taking 
all  the  risks  to  come  in  and  run  small  distilleries,  and  quit  violating 
the  law? — A.  I  think  it  was  a  very  great  inducement  to  them;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  did  the  most  of  these  small  distilleries  sell  M'hisky  at  ? — 
A.  Really  I  don't  know,  I  never  bought  any  of  them,  and  would  only 
know  from  hearsay,  except  the  current  price  of  whisky,  which  was 
fluctuating  all  the  while. 

Q.  In  tliat  country  it  has  been  as  low  down  as  $1.10  i^er  gallon  f — A. 
It  has  been  as  low  as  95  cents  a  gallon. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  case  where  it  was  charged  that  a  store- 
keeper divided  his  pay  with  the  distiller? — A.  I  know  of  no  case  where 


238  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

proof  could  be  obtained.  The  collector  has  bad  cases  reported  where 
it  was  charged,  but  upon  investigation  by  biiii  of  these  officers  it  was 
denied  positively  that  any  division  was  made  between  them. 

Q.  It  was  often  reported  to  the  office  ? — A.  It  has  been  reported  ; 
yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  as  nobody  knew  it  but  the  store-keeper  and  distiller,  they 
could  not  prove  it '? — A.  We  were  unable  to  get  auy  proof  of  it  what- 
ever. 

Q.  If  at  one  of  these  small  distilleries  of  three  and  a  half  or  four 
bushels  capacity,  the  store  keeper  divided  his  ])ay  with  the  distiller, 
was  it  not  a  better  business  than  blockading  "?  Would  the  distiller  not 
make  more  money  at  it  ? — A.  If  the  store-keeper  divided  his  pay,  I 
should  think  the  distiller  would  probably  make  more. 

Q.  Was  there  not  many  instances  reported  to  the  office  in  whicli  the 
store-keeper  paid  very  high  board  to  the  distiller? — A.  Yes,  sir;  and 
investigated. 

Q.  That  was  proven  to  be  so  f — A.  In  every  case  it  was  invariably 
denied. 

Q.  But  in  some  cases  it  was  proven  ? — A.  Very  seldom. 

Q.  Was  it  not  proven  in  the  case  of  Mr=  Cooper,  a  brother  of  the  col- 
lector, that  Mr.  Templeton  had  paid  him  $30  a  month  for  board  ? — A, 
I  never  heard  that,  sir. 

Q.  It  seems  to  have  been  reported  to  the  office  by  one  of  the  revenue 
agents  that  it  was  so  ? — A.  It  is  one  of  those  cases  of  hearsay,  i^rob- 
ably. 

Q.  You  don't  know  that  Mr.  Templeton  swore  that  he  paid  that  on 
the  stand  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  You  stated  that  the  charge  that  this  increase  in  the  expenses  of 
the  office  was  for  political  purposes  was  untrue  ;  did  you  not  misstate  -, 
that  was  not  the  charge — not  that  the  increased  expenses  were  for  po- 
litical purposes,  but  the  increase  in  the  number  of  officers  occasioned 
an  assessment  upon  officers  for  political  purposes,  which  made  it  much 
larger? — A.  I  stated,  I  think,  if  I  understood  the  question,  if  the  in- 
crease of  distilleries  was  not  an  increase  of  distilleries,  as  charged,  for 
political  purposes,  and  replied,  so  far  as  1  knew,  that  it  was  not  for  po 
litical  purposes  ;  that  such  a  charge  as  that  was  untrue. 

Q.  That  the  increase  of  stills A.  Of  stills  and  store-keei^ers. 

Q.  I  ask  you  if  the  charge  as  made  by  the  Democratic  party  down 
there,  is  not  true — that  the  increase  in  the  number  of  officers  and  as- 
sessments lex'ied  u])on  them  was  for  political  })uri)oses  ? — A.  I  don't 
remember  that  that  charge  was  made.  I  remember  a  charge  having 
been  made  that  the  nund^er  of  officers  was  increased  for  i)olitical  })ur- 
poses,  and  I  stated  such  ;i  statement  as  that  was  untrue;  that  the  num- 
ber of  officers  was  not  increased  for  ])olitical  purposes.  I  don't  think 
that  any  assessment  for  political  i)uri)oses  was  in  view  in  any  manner, 
slia[»e,  or  form,  when  the  number  of  distilleries  was  increased.  In  fact, 
it  (!ould  not  have  been  under  th<^  cinMimstances. 

(^.  As  cliier  de[)uty,  an<l  being  engaged  in  the  office  at  tlie  time,  j'ou 
<;iii  Irll  wliiil  the  ]>olitieal  assi^ssmcut  amounted  to  in  ISSO? — A.  I  (;an- 
iiot  ;    1  iicxcr  kei)t  iiii>  record. 

(,).  \\'li(t  (lid  ^ — A.  I  don't  thiid<  that  anybody  kept  any  record  of 
tliiit.  i  rould  csliinatc  aliout  how  mnch  was  gi\'en  by  the  various  offi- 
(•CIS  lor  polil  icai  imiposcs. 

Q.   Dining  the,  (;ani|)aign  of  l.SSO  .' — ,V.   V'es,  sir;  so  far  as  I  can  Judge. 

(^.  What  is  your  estimate  '/ — A.  My  estimate  is  that  there  was  about 
$8,000  given.     I  have  estimated  it  variously  at  from  six  to  eight  thou- 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  2 3 it 

sand  dollars.  A  great  many  officers  who  were  supposed  to  be  able  to 
pay  did  not,  and  have  not  to  this  day — quite  a  number;  and  I  esti- 
mated that  if  about  one  hundred  of  them  had  paid,  and  ])aid  in  sums  of 
from  fifty  to  one  hundred  and  four  and  to  one  hundred  and  eiglit  dollars, 
l^robably  it  would  be  about  $75.00  on  the  average,  and  in  that  way  I 
came  to  my  conclusion  that  there  was  about  seventy-live  hundred  to 
eight  thousand  dollars. 

Q.  Do  you  know  how  much  it  was  in  the  previous  campaign  ? — A. 
No,  sir. 

Q.  In  187G  !— A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  It  was  not  so  much  as  that  in  1870? — A.  I  do  not  know,  sir; 
probably  they  contributed  as  uuich  in  proportiou  to  their  means. 

Q.  If  the  officers  contributed  such  a  per  ceut.  of  their  salary,  the 
more  officers  contributing,  the  larger  the  amount  would  be  ? — A.  If 
they  had  all  contributed.  The  officers  were  very  liberal  in  their  con- 
tributions. I  know  that,  and  those  who  had  the  political  welfare  of  the 
party  or  State  at  heart  would  contribute,  as  I  said,  very  freely,  very 
willingly,  and  without  any  pressure. 

Q.  Who  kept  the  record  of  how  much  was  collected  ? — A.  I  do  not 
know,  sir,  that  any  record  was  kept  except  by  the  committee  who  re- 
ceived it. 

Q.  Who  received  the  mone^'  at  your  office  ? — A.  Nobody  received 
the  money  at  our  office.  y-"'^/^ 

Q.  A  great  many  ha^e  sworn  here  that  they  jmid  their  checks  or 
gave  their  checks  into  the  office  to  you,  or  to  Dr.  Mi)tt  ? — A.  Never  to 
me,  but  they  were  paid  to  Dr.  Mott  as  chairman  of  the  executive 
committee,  as  I  understood — this  I  do  not  know  of  my  own  knowledge — 
and  were  sent  by  him  to  the  committee. 

Q.  Now,  somebody  would  necessarily  keep  a  record  of  what  was 
received  ? — A.  If  anybody  did,  I  presume  Dr.  Mott  has  done  so. 

Q.  You  did  not,  at  all  events  ? — A.  I  did  not.  I  at  one  time  drew  off 
a  memorandum  of  tliose  who  had  paid  up  to  a  certain  date,  as  a  guide 
for  the  collector, for  that  puri)ose. 

Q.  Why  as  a  guide  ;  how  so  f — A.  So  as  to  know  who  paid  and  who 
had  not. 

Q.  So  as  not  to  call  on  any  who  had  paid  ? — A.  I  presume  so,  up  to 
that  time.  I  handed  it  to  him.  I  never  kept  a  record  since ;  in  fact  I 
kept  no  record  previous  to  that  time. 

Q.  Do  you  know  who  the  money  was  jjaid  to,  and  for  what  purpose"? 
— A.  It  was  i^aid  for  political  purposes,  so  far  as  I  know,  and  that  only 
from  hearsay — I  may  say,  paid  to  Dr.  Mott  as  chairman  of  the  execu- 
tive committee,  and  by  him  to  the  committee. 

Q.  What  committee  ? — A.  The  Eepublicau  State  executive  com- 
mittee. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  any  newspapers  were  reci])ients  of  part  of 
this  money? — A.  Not  of  my  own  knowledge — no,  sir;  could  not  swear 
to  it. 

Q.  Have  you  heard  so  ? — A.  Not  of  my  own  knowledge ;  cannot  swear 
to  it ;  have  not  heard  that  newspapers  have  been  recipients  of  any  por- 
tion of  this  money,  but  I  should  presume  they  would  receive  some  por- 
tion for  campaign  expenses  in  proper  form — what  was  due  them. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  of  a  circular  letter  addressed  at  any  time 
to  the  officers  inquiring  as  to  their  politics  ? — A.  I  do,  sir. 

Q.  What  was  it  ? — A.  So  far  as  I  remember,  the  Commissioner  of  In- 
ternal Revenue  desired  to  kuow  the  politics  of  every  officer  in  the  dis- 
trict, and  requested  the  collector  to  ascertain  it.  The  circular  was 
addressed  to  each  officer  throughout  the  district,  I  believe. 


240  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  When  was  that? — A.  I  am  UDable  to  state  the  date. 

Q.  What  year? — A.  lam  unable  to  state  the  date.  I  did  not  bear 
that  in  my  memory  at  all,  and  simply  know  that  such  a  printed  circular 
was  sent  to  each  officer  at  the  request  of  the  Commissioner  of  Internal 
Eevenne  for  some  pnrpose  of  his  own. 

Q.  Could  you  furnish  me  a  copy  of  that  circular? — A.  No,  sir;  I 
never  kept  one  ;  In  fact  1  never  saw  anything  but  the  proof  of  it.  It  was 
handed  to  the  messenger  to  address  it  to  the  different  ofiticers. 

Q.  That  was  done  at  the  instance  of  the  Commissioner  of  Internal 
Eevenne  ? — A.  I  am  very  positive  it  was,  for  the  simple  reason  that 
i^ome  replies  were  of  such  a  nature  as  seemed  to  indicate  that  the  Com- 
missioner was  asking-  too  much  of  them. 

Q.  You  spoke  of  the  duties  of  a  general  store-keeper;  whose  duty  is 
it  to  carry  the  key  of  a  distillery  which  had  suspended,  if  there  were 
less  than  2,000  gallons  in  the  warehouse  ? — A.  It  was  the  duty  of  the 
general  store-keeper  to  have  charge  of  it,and  the  keys  and  books  were 
left  in  his  office  or  in  the  main  office. 

Q.  The  collector's  office? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  was  responsible  for  them. 

Q.  Y^ou  say  Mr.  Drake  had  been  in  office  four  or  five  years  ? — A.  About 
four  or  five  years. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  he  has  not  been  there  over  ten  years  ? — A.  I  do 
not  think  he  was  a  store-keeper  when  I  went  there  in  1875.  I  know  he 
was  not. 

Q.  Was  he  a  store-keeper  in  1876! — A.  Without  having  my  record,  I 
am  unable  to  swear  positively,  but  think  he  was  not. 

Q.  We  have  a  record  here  that  he  was  a  store-keeper  from  the  1st  of 
January,  187(3,  up. — A.  Probably  correct;  I  know  he  was  not  a  store- 
keeper when  I  went  there  in  1875.  He  was  appointed  subsequent  to 
that  time,  but  the  date  I  am  unable  to  state. 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  when  Mr.  Daniels's  distillery  was  seized  ? — A.  I  do. 

Q.  Who  had  the  keys  of  that  distillery  at  that  time "? — A.  That  is  a 
question  which  might  be  answered  in  several  w;iys.  Daniels's  main 
distillery  was  operating  and  the  store-keeper  on  duty  at  his  main  distil- 
lery had  the  keys  of  that  distillery. 

Q.  Who  had  the  keys  of  the  one  that  was  suspended  "? — A.  Freeze's 
distillery  you  refer  to  ? 

Q.  Yes,  sir,  Freeze's  ? — A.  I  have  ascertained  that  Mr.  Bogle  had 
those  keys,  or  got  them  from  the  office,  and  they  got  into  the  possession 
ot  Mr.  Daniels  through  him. 

Q.  Through  him? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Whose  district  as  general  store-keeper  was  that  distillery  in  ? — 
A.  I  think  it  was  in  Mr.  Sharpe's. 

Q.  Which  Sharpe?— A.  (1.  W.  I  think,  if  it  was  in  north  Iredell.  If 
so,  it  was  in  Sharpe's  district. 

Q.  It  was  within  a  mile  and  a  half  of  the  town  of  Statesville,  was  it 
not? — A.  Yes,  sir;  hut  a  division  was  made  in  the  county  of  Iredell 
north  and  south  of  the  railroad. 

Q.  ^Vt  all  events  Mr.  Sharpe  did  not  have  the  key? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q,  Me  was  the.  general  store-kee|)er  and  it  was  not  in  your  office? — 
A.  Xo,  sii-;  not  iit  1  he  tinu'  of  the  seizure,  that  is  according  to  the  records 
of  the  cleilv  who  had  charge  of  those  key«,  informs  me. 

(j.  Wjieic  were  you  at  the  time  that  distillery  was  seized? — A-  The 
Fi(*eze's  distillery  ? 

(^.   Yes,  sir. — A.  1  was  in  Statesville. 

i^,.  McMcLci'r  says  in  his  re])ort  that  you  could  not  be  found? — A. 
He  did  not  look  for  me  verv  Inird,  Ix'caiise  I  was  not  out  of  Statesville. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  241 

McLeer's  report  is  the  report  F  liave  referred  to;  I  have  only  seen  it 
in  tlic  ])ast  two  weeks,  and  in  it  there  is  a  good  deal  of  iiinueii<h)  and 
very  little  positive  fact. 

Q.  These  special  agents  are  not  very  reliable  anyhow,  you  think,  as 
to  their  reports'? — A.  Not  if  they  make  thein  all  like  MciLeer. 

Q.  You  said  to  Mr.  Pool  that  they  were  very  unreliable,  giving  ru- 
mors, &c.  f — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  that  has  been  the  case  down  in  the  district 
for  the  last  four  or  six  months;  i)articularly  so. 

Q.  Was  Mr.  Bogle  discharged  on  account  of  permitting  Mr.  Daniels 
to  have  the  key  f — A.  He  was  discharged,  it  is  my  impression,  at  the 
re(;ommendation  of  Mr.  McLeer  for  that  reason,  and  it  was  ratified  by 
the  (jollector. 

Q.  When  was  he  discharged,  and  how  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  the  date. 
1  think  there  was  a  letter  written  from  the  office  in  relation  to  him, 
recommending  his  discharge. 

Q.  When  was  that  distillery  of  Mr.  Daniels  seized  1 — A.  In  the  lat- 
ter part  of  1881 ;  1  think  it  was  some  time  in  October. 

Q.  Do  you  know  who  got  that  key  from  the  office  "I  It  was  found,  as  I 
understand  you,  tbat  Mr.  Bogle  had  the  key,  and  let  Mr.  Daniels  have 
it ;  do  you  know  who  obtained  it  from  the  office  '? — A.  The  records  show 
that  Mr.  Bogle  got  it  from  the  office. 

Q.  What  record  f — A.  At  the  office  kept  by  the  clerk  in  charge  of 
these  matters. 

Q.  Who  was  the  clerk  ! — A.  Mr.  Colyer. 

Q.  Mr.  McLeer  says  that  you  told  him  that  yon  did  not  see  anything 
l)articularly  wrong  in  giving  Mr.  Daniels  Freeze's  warehouse  key. — A. 
I  said  nothing  of  the  sort. 

Q.  You  deny  that  ? — A.  I  do,  most  positively.  I  remember  the  con- 
versation about  the  manner  in  which  the  key  was  handed  by  him  to 
Mr.  Bogle,  and,  if  I  am  allowed,  I  will  correct  Mr.  McLeer's  report 
under  oath 

Q.  You  are  under  oath  now. — A. — as  to  the  manner  in  which  that  key 
was  obtained  by  Mr.  Daniels.  Mr.  Daniels  wished  to  make  a  withdrawal 
of  a  certain  amount  of  whisky  from  this  warehouse ;  Mr.  Bogle  was  a 
qualified  store-keeper,  sworn  and  bonded,  and  he  was  designated  by  the 
clerk  in  charge  of  the  stamps  and  of  the  business  of  the  general  store- 
keeper, whoever  it  was,  to  make  the  withdrawal.  It  appears  that  Mr. 
Daniels  was  in  the  office  at  the  time,  and  Mr.  Bogle — Mr.  Colyer  sat  at 
his  usual  desk  about  fifteen  feet  from  where  Mr.  Bogle  was  doing  some 
writing — Mr.  Daniels  went  to  Mr.  Colyer  and  asked  him  for  the  key  for 
Mr.  Bogle  ;  Mr.  Colyer,  looking  up,  handed  it  to  him,  supposing  he  was 
going  to  give  it  to  Mr.  Bogle,  who  had  the  orders  to  receive  it. 

Q.  Did  you  tell  that  to  Mr.  McLeer? — A.  I  told  him  so  a  dozen  times. 

Q.  Before  he  made  his  report;  when  he  asked  you  to  examine  about 
it? — A.  No,  sir;  I  did  not  know  anything  of  the  circumstances  till  I 
examined  them  myself.  I  notice  JMr.  McLeer  puts  a  lot  of  words  in 
my  mouth  in  that  report,  all  of  which  was  innuendo  to  a  certain  extent. 

Q.  Who  was  the  clerk,  Mr.  Colyer,  who  designated  Mr.  Bogle  to  act? — 
A.  The  cashier  or  stamp  clerk  designated  Mr.  Bogle  to  make  the  with- 
drawal. 

Q.  Had  he  any  authority  to  do  that? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  in  the  business 
of  the  general  store-keeper,  as  I  just  explained,  when  he  was  on  other 
duty,  and  whisky  was  being  required  to  be  tax-paid,  under  the  in- 
structions and  regulations  he  was  allowed  to  designate  a  sworn  officer. 
S.  Mis.  IIG IG 


242  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q,  The  collector  was  allowed,  not  the  clerk? — The  clerk,  acting  for 
the  collector,  of  course. 

Q.  That  you  say  is  a  regulation  ? — A.  ISTo,  sir;  not  a  regulation,  simply 
a  custom:  no  regulation  about  it. 

Q.  Is  that  legal  ? — A.  I  see  nothing  illegal  about  it.  There  is  a  law 
which  says  that  no  officer  (-an  delegate  anybody  to  use  his  tools,  brands, 
marks,  and  so  on,  but  it  was  not  a  delegation  to  use  his  tools  and  marks, 
simply  to  i)erform  his  duty  for  him. 

Q.  Was  there  uot  a  general  store-keeper  in  town? — A.  Not  at  that 
time,  it  is  my  impression;  an  investigation  seemed  to  i)rove  he  was  not 
iu  town  at  the  time  Mr.  Bogle  was  delegated  in  order  to  accommodate 
the  tax-payer,  aiul  the  key  was  recorded  as  having  been  handed  to  Mr. 
Bogle  by  Mr.  Colyer  at  the  time,  proving  conclusively  that  he  handed 
the  key  to  Mr.  Bogie,  although  through  a  third  i)arty.  In  fact  he  so 
swore  in  court,  and  I  heard  his  testimony'.  He  did  so  with  the  inten- 
tion that  Mr.  Bogie  should  receive  that  key,  as  being  the  one  qualitied 
to  receive  it. 

Q.  Let  me  read  to  you  a  little  from  Mr.  Brooks's  report,  so  as  to  see 
what  you  have  to  say  to  it.     Speaking  of  the  sixth  district,  he  says : 

There  is  work  enough  in  that  district  for  two  agents  and  all  the  assistance  they  can 
get,  for  it  must  be  remembered  that  so  long  as  Mr.  Colte  remains  as  chief  deputy  ot 
that  district,  agents  need  not  expect  that  assistance  from  the  local  officers  that  they 
receive  in  the  other  districts  in  this  State,  for  the  simple  reason  that  they  are  aware 
that  to  give  an  agent  information  regarding  frauds  or  irregularities  in  the  district  will 
incur  the  displeasure  of  Mr.  Coite,  and  may  result  to  their  pecuniary  injury.  I  know 
of  instances  recently  where  officers  have  incurred  Mr.  Coite's  displeasure  by  talking 
to  me  about  matters  iu  the  district,  for  the  reason,  as  Mr.  Coite  put  it,  he  did  not 
want  Brooks  to  find  out  everything  tliat  was  going  on  in  the  district. 

Do  you  recollect  any  instance  where  anybody  incurred  your  dis- 
pleasure ? — A.  That  is  one  of  the  cases  of  innuendo  in  which  there  is 
no  truth  whatever ;  I  solemnly  swear  that  I  have  given  every  agent 
every  facility  in  my  power,  and  by  order  of  the  collector  also.  As  far  as 
incurring  my  displeasure,  I  do  not  think  a  man  ever  spoke  of  any  in- 
stance liaving  occurred  to  my  knowledge.  Such  words  have  never 
issued  from  my  lii)s:  in  fact,  1  am  i)repared  personally  to  give,  and  re- 
quire every  officer  who  is  subordinate  to  me  to  give,  information  wher- 
ever possible  to  be  obtained,  and  also  by  order  of  the  collector. 

Q.  Let  me  read  you  a  little  more  : 

Mr.  Coite  is  noted  for  making  excuses  for  frauds  and  irregularities  discoveied  iu  the 
district,  instead  of  trying  to  correct  abuses;  f(jr  instance,  in  the  recent  case  of  W.  A. 
Daniels,  distiller,  who  received  the  key  of  Freeze's  warehouse  from  the  collector's 
office,  gutted  the  warehouse  of  IU  bbls.  of  spirits,  then  returned  the  key  to  the  office. 
Mr.  Coite  told  me  he  could  not  see  anything  iiarticularly  wrong  in  giving  Mr.  Daniels 
Freeze's  warehouse  key,  as  Mr.  Daniels  had  always  been  regarded  as  a  very  reputable 
citizen  in  the  community,  while  the  facts  are  that  Mr.  Daniels  has  the  reputation  of 
being  one  of  the  worst  whisky  thieves  in  the  district. 

Tliat  you  have  already  denied  ? — A.  I  have  denied  it.  Under  the 
circumstances  I  have  said  that  it  was  right  to  give  to  Mr.  Daniels  the 
keys  of  the  warehouse,  or  to  any  other  i)erson,  and  have  explained  the 
statement  how  Mr.  Daniels  re(;eived  the  keys.  I  saw  nothing  wrong 
at  the  time,  and  I  further  renieiuber  that  I  said  to  INIr.  Brooks  at  the 
time  that  I  always  considered  Mr.  Daniels  to  be  a  good  and  honest  citi- 
zen uj>  to  that  time.  I  further  .said  that  I  thought  he  took  that  whisky 
and  ought  to  1m'  convicte<i  lor  it.  That  showed  the  sympathy  I  had 
Avith  hiiti,  and  I  was  willing  to  do  all  that  J  coidd  possibly  to  convict 
him;  and  did  do  all  I  t-ould  possibly. 

Q.  I  will  read  you  a  little  more: 

It  was  ill  Mr.  Coite's  I'crfilr  lirain  tht;  scheme  of  sending  out  a  circular  assessing  the 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  243 

numerous  officers  of  the  district  1  per  cent,  a  month  of  their  sahiry  for  incidental  ex- 
jienses  for  the  office  originattid. 

Were  you  the  origiuator  of  that  scheme? — A.  I  do  not  think  so. 

Q.  Wlio  did  suggest  it  ? — A.  I  think  it  was  done  in  a  general  conver- 
sation in  tlie  office,  by  all  the  oflicers — tirst  one  said  one  thing,  and 
another  another.  It  was  a])i»roved  by  the  collector  for  the  simple  rea- 
son that  we  were  then  being  taxed  for  the  emi)loyment  of  a  messenger 
and  other  expenses  in  the  oftice  not  allowed  by  the  government,  and  we 
did  not  care  to  pay  out  of  our  meager  salaries  what  the  government 
ought  to  give,  especially  the  extra  expenses  incurred  by  reason  of  the 
increase  of  the  number  of  store  kee])ers.  My  brain  is  very  fertile,  but 
not  sufficiently  so  for  that.  I  think  ]Mr.  Brooks's  is  more  fertile  than 
mine. 

Q.  I  will  read  you  a  little  more: 

Mr.  Coite  is  always  cou)})laiuing  of  being  overworked,  and  finding  fault  with  the  de- 
partment for  re(iniring  so  nuich  of  him,  while  the  facts  are  that  Mr.  Coite  has  so  mnch 
private  business  outside  of  the  office  that  it  is  seldom  he  can  be  found  at  the  office 
when  he  is  wanted,  more  especially  when  he  is  not  expecting  a  call  from  an  agent. 

A.  That  is  a  falsehood,  and  I  pronounce  that  a  falsehood. 
Q.  (Reading:) 

There  is  not  a  district  in  the  State  so  backward  about  furnishing  information  as  the 
sixth,  for  which  fact,  in  my  opinion,  Mr.  Coite  is  responsible.  Imi>ortaut  information 
which  can  be  obtained  from  other  districts  in  this  State  in  a  few  hours,  by  telegraph, 
takes  weeks  to  get  from  the  sixth  district,  greatly  to  the  detriment  of  the  goverumt-ut's 
interests.  To  illustrate  :  On  December  10,  18bl,  there  was  seized  in  this  district  three 
wagons  containing  thirteen  packages  of  illicit  brandy,  three  of  the  packages  bear  the 
stamps,  marks,  and  brands  of  distilleries  in  the  sixth  district,  two  from  one  distiller 
and  one  from  another.  The  last-named  package  was  tax  paid  in  April,  18yl,  the  two 
packages  tax  paid  in  September,  18^1,  and  orujinaUy  contained  corn  whisky.  On  the 
day  of  the  seizure  I  wrote  Collector  Mott,  giving  names  of  distillers,  serial  numbers 
of  casks  and  of  warehouse  and  tax-paid  stamjis,  name  of  the  store-keeper  and  ganger, 
and  date  of  tax-paid  stamps,  requesting  to  know  to  whom  the  distiller  disposed  of 
these  packages.  On  December  22,  not  having  received  an  answer,  I  wrote  Collector 
Mott  again,  asking  him  to  send  me  th(^  information  called  for  in  my  letter  of  the  10th 
instant.  Under  date  of  December  23,  he  sent  me  the  information  in  regard  to  the 
two  ])ackages  tax  paid  in  September,  1881,  but  as  yet  I  have  not  received  the  informa- 
tion in  regard  to  the  one  package  tax  paid  in  April,  1881. 

Q.  Did  you  know  anything  of  that? — A.  I  do  not  recollect  that  cir- 
cumstance, but  if  such  a  thing  did  occur  it  is  probable  the  distiller  re- 
sided miles  away  from  the  office  of  the  district,  and  his  letter  was  re- 
ferred in  due  course  to  the  division  deputy  to  obtain  the  information, 
and  send  it  to  the  office.  When  it  was  received  it  was  transmitted  to 
Mr.  Brooks.  We  have  no  telegraphs  or  railroads,  and  have  to  depend 
upon  the  division  deputy'  to  do  all  that  work,  and  I  deny  that  any  re- 
quest ever  sent  by  Mr.  Brooks  to  the  office  that  came  under  my 
cognizance  did  not  receive  my  immediate  attention  or  the  collector's. 
I  positively  deny  that  under  oath. 

Q.  You  have  stated  you  know  of  no  official  misconduct  on  the  part  of 
Dr.  Mott  during  the  time  you  have  been  in  office:  that  is  so,  is  it? — 
A.  1  know  of  none. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  on  the  part  of  any  of  the  other  officers  of  the 
district? — A.  Several,  I  think,  have  been  discharged  for  official  mis- 
conduct; for  negligence,  &c. 

Q.  We  are  investigating  the  whole  department,  not  Dr.  Mott  partic- 
ularly. You  say  you  know  of  no  instance  of  misconduct  in  the  depart- 
ment ? — A.  I  know  of  several  instances  where  men  have  been  discharged 
for  official  misconduct. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  E.  A.  Cobb,  who  was  discharged  for  alleged  com- 
plicity in  frauds? — A.  I  know  Cobb  was  discharged,  but  do  not  recollect 
the  reason  of  his  discharge. 


244  COLLFXTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  lu  the  official  list  of  subordinate  officers  dismissed  on  charges  in 
the  sixth  district  of  ]Srorth  Carolina  by  Collector  INfott,  K.  A.  Cobb,  store- 
keeper, is  mentioned  as  being-  dismissed  November  1, 1878,  for  malfeas- 
ance in  office.  True  bill  found  by  the  grand  jury.  Do  yon  recollect 
anything  of  that? — A.  I  do  not,  sir;  1  simply  know  that  fact,  that 
about  that  time  he  was  discharged.  It  is  recalled  to  me  by  your  read- 
ing that;  but  the  facts,  or  the  <letails  of  it,  I  know  nothing. 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  further  fact  tluit  since  he  has  been  reappointed? 
— A.  I  know  that  he  has  been  acting  as  a  raiding  deputy. 

Q.  As  a  deputy? — A.  No,  sir;  as  a  raiding  dei)uty. 

Q.  A  deputy  with  a  surname  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  a  deputy  with  no  re- 
sponsibility as  such — simply  to  go  through  the  country  and  hunt  up 
illicit  distilleries  and  destroy  them. 

Q.  He  has  no  responsibility  whatever  ? — A.  Personally,  none. 

Q.  Is  tliere  such  an  office  as  that  provided  by  law  ?  You  know  what 
the  responsibility  of  a  division  deputy  is ;  he  gives  no  bond,  or  any- 
thing of  that  sort  ? — A.  No,  sir;  he  gives  no  bond,  but  p>erforms  the 
duties  of  a  deputy. 

Q.  When  was  he  assigned  to  that  irresponsible  deputyship  ? — A. 
That  I  don't  recollect.  1  know  he  was  for  some  length  of  time  acting 
as  a  raiding  deputy. 

Q.  Do  you  know  that  he  is  now  ? — A.  No,  sir;  he  is  not  in  now. 

Q.  When  was  he  put  out  again  ? — A.  When  the  appropriation  for 
that  purpose  was  exhausted.  I  think  about  a  year  ago — he  w^as  simplj"^ 
dropped,  not  put  out. 

Q.  In  a  statement  of  payments  made  to  store-keepers  by  J.  J.  Mott, 
collector  of  the  sixth  district,  North  Carolina,  from  July  1,  1875,  to 
June  30,  187G,  I  see  Mr.  E.  B.  Drake  drew  pay  for  November,  1875,  at 
$130,  and  for  December,  1875,  $135  ;  that  brings  it  up  to  January,  1876, 
and  the  vouchers  for  the  same  are  tiled  ? — A.  He  could  not  be  a  store- 
keeper at  a  hundred  and  thirty  and  a  hundred  and  thirty-live  dollars, 
sir. 

The  Clerk.  The  roll  says  the  rate  is  $5  per  day,  and  for  the  quarter 
ending  December  31,  1875,  he  is  put  down  for  November,  $130,  and  for 
December,  $135. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  That  is  before  it  was  reduced  to  $4  per  day  ! — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  I  sim- 
ply meant,  though,  that  he  was  not  a  store-keeper  when  I  went  therein 
1875. 

Q,  Do  you  know  that  Mr.  Cobb  was  indicted  ? — A.  I  did  not;  I  know 
nothing  of  the  details  in  his  case,  or  cause  of  his  disnussal. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  becanie  of  Mr.  Setzer  ? — A.  AVhich  Setzer  ? 

Q.  He  was  storekeeper  at  Mr.  Clarke's  when  his  distillery  was  seized'? 
— A.  My  impression  is  he  was  dismissed. 

Q.  Was  he  ever  restored  to  the  rolls  *? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  recollect  the  seizure  of  Mr.  (Marke's  distillery ?— A.  Mr. 
Clark<'As  distillery  was  not  seized. 

Q.  'i'licin,  of  c<)urs(;,  you  do  not  recollect  the  date  when  it  was  seized? 
— A.  No,  sii-;   1  do  not. 

().  Do  yon  recollect  when  it  was  ascertained  that  three  or  four  hun- 
<lred  gallons  of  whisky  ha<l  disappeared  from  his  warehouse  ? — A.  I 
<lo  ;   I  remember  the  cirenmstance,  not  the  date. 

Q.  Whose  district  was  that  in  as  g(;nei'al  storo-kfeeper ? — A.  At  the 
time  of  the  discovery,  in  the  district  of  Walter  P>.  Mott.  He  had  it 
from  the  pievions  Oetober.  Previous  to  that  time  it  was  in  the  district 
of  Mr.  Vj.  M.  Drake,  who  had  it  since  its  suspension. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  245 

Q.  Do  you  know  who  had  the  key  at  the  time  this  li(|u<)r  was  ab- 
stracted I — A.  Yes,  sir ;  1  know  tliat  Mr.  Setzer  had  the  Icej' ;  at  least 
it  was  so  reported  at  tlie  oftice. 

Q.  Was  it  lawful  for  Mr.  Setzer  to  liave  it  ? — A.  Not  under  the  cir- 
cumstances. I  do  not  think  it  was  ])roi)er,  althougli  Mr.  Setzer  was  ap- 
pointed store-keei)er,  and  expecting;',  as  I  understand  it,  to  j^o  on  dutj^ 
and  resume  operations  at  an  early  day  ;  but  it  j^ave  him  no  rij>ht  to  the 
key  <luring'  the  suspension  of  the  distillery. 

Q.  Whose  duty  was  it  to  keej)  that  key? — A.  It  shoukl  have  been 
ke])t  in  the  possession  of  the  gei^eral  store-keeper  ? 

Q.  AVhom  did  Setzer  get  it  from  ? — A.  Am  1  to  be  allowed  to  testify 
as  to  hearsay  ? 

Q.  Well,  the  matter  was  investigated  at  the  office,  and  you  can  say 
what  was  disclosed  on  the  investigation. — A.  Well,  the  general  store- 
keeper, Mott,  soon  after  he  became  such,  in  October,  went  to  the  dis- 
tillery to  withdraw  some  spirits — to  tax  pay  some  whisky — in  which 
duties  he  states  he  was  assisted  by  Mr.  Setzer,  who  had  been  store-keeper 
during  the  operation  of  the  distillery. 

Q.  That  was  Mr.  Clarke's  own  distillery  ? — A.  I  mean  Mr.  Setzer. 
After  the  duties  were  performed  he  had  other  duties  to  perform  in  Lin- 
coln County,  and  gave  the  key  to  Setzer,  who  was  a  bonded  and  sworn 
officer,  requesting  him  and  obtaining  from  him  the  promise  to  take  it 
to  the  office  in  Stateville,  where  he  announced  his  intention  to  go  that 
day.  That  is  how  he  obtained  possession  of  the  key.  He  never  per- 
formed that  promise  but  kept  the  key  in  his  possession,  and  it  was 
never  discovered  he  had  it,  until  the  whisky  was  found  to  be  gone. 
Immediately  on  the  discovery  of  the  loss  of  the  whisky  the  law  was 
carried  out,  the  assessment  made,  and  the  taxes  were  demanded  and 
were  paid  with  interest  in  full. 

Q.  Have  you  not  got  that  a  little  wrong  ?  Did  it  not  turn  out  in  the 
investigation  that  Setzer  removed  the  whisky  and  stamped  it  himself 
in  the  absence  of  the  store-keeper,  Mott? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Did  it  not  turn  out  that  Mr.  Clarke  and  Store-keei)er  Mott  went 
away  from  the  warehouse  down  to  Troutman's  depot,  for  some  tacks 
and  varnish  ? — A.  It  may  have  been  reported  by  the  agent,  but  Dr. 
Walter  Mott  told  me  he  went  there  to  the  depot,  and  on  his  return 
Setzer  was  completing  the  job,  and  he  sui)ervised  and  inspected  him- 
self the  operation,  and  the  wdiisky  that  was  tax  paid  before  it  was 
turned  over,  and  he  remained  at  Mr.  Clarke's  liouse  that  night,  because 
it  was  too  late  to  go  to  Lincoln.     That  is  Walter  Mott's  statement  to  me. 

Q.  Do  you  not  recollect  that  there  was  a  statement  that  he  went  oft" 
to  Troutman's  depot? — A.  They  went  there  to  get  something,  and  re- 
turned before  the  operation  was  performed. 

Q.  Was  it  the  custom,  where  you  had  confidence  in  a  distiller  who 
was  a  man  of  standing  and  character,  to  let  him  have  the  key  when  he 
applied  for  it  ? — A.  It  was  contrary  to  tlie  custom  ;  in  fact,  he  was  ne\er 
allowed  to  get  the  keys. 

Q.  From  the  office  you  mean  ? — A.  From  the  office  or  anywhere,  if  it 
were  to  the  knowledge  of  the  office  or  collector.  In  fact  it  was  positi\  i-ly 
or.lered  not  to  allow  anybody  to  have  the  key,  except  the  sworn  and 
bonded  officers  of  the  government,  under  the  law  and  regulations. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  district  has  been  assigned  to  jNlr.  Drake  as 
general  store-keei)er,  and  how  many  distillers  have  been  in  his  charge 
since  1876? — A.  I  know  the  district  that  it  was,  the  counties  of  Davie 
and  Rowan,  two  counties   with  a  number  of  stills  which  varied.     He 


246  COLLECTION    OF    INTEKXAL    REVENUE    IN 

has  never  Lad  less  tliau  half  a  dozen,  and  sonietinies  they  ran  as  high 
as  twenty-five  or  thirty,  in  my  judgment. 

Q.  Did  he  do  wliat  work  was  necessary  himself,  or  get  some  other 
store-keeper  to  do  it  for  himf — A.  I  know  personally  of  a  few  cases  in 
which  he  got  others  to  do  it  personally  for  him;  mj^  impression  is  that 
he  did  his  work  himself.  From  my  own  personal  knowledge  I  am 
unable  to  say. 

Q.  How  much  of  his  time  was  he  kept  at  that  duty? — A.  I  am  unable 
to  state. 

Q.  He  edited  a  paper  at  the  same  time,  did  he  not  ? — A.  He  wrote 
for  it,  and  remained  in  the  office  of  the  paper;  whether  he  edited  it  or 
not  I  do  not  know.     It  was  in  the  name  of  his  son. 

Q.  How  long  has  it  been  in  the  name  of  his  son  ? — A.  I  am  unable 
to  swear. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  he  had  permission  of  the  Commissioner  of 
Internal  Revenue  to  pursue  any  other  occuj)ation  ? — A.  I  do  not  know, 
sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  he  had  or  not? — A.  I  do  not,  sir. 

Q.  Has  it  been  the  custom  in  the  office  since  you  have  been  there  to 
allow  men  to  draw  double  pay  for  doing  the  duties  of  another  position 
besides  the  one  they  were  commissioned  to? — A.  It  is  contrary  to  the 
custom  and  law  and  regulations. 

Q.  So  that  if  any  man  received  double  pay,  it  was  illegal  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir ;  and  unknown  to  the  office. 

Q.  How  could  it  be  unknown  to  the  office? — A.  It  was  unknown  to 
the  office.     I  know  of  no  such  things  since  I  have  been  there. 

Q.  But  if  any  one  had  drawn  in  a  regular  w\ay  the  pay  of  two  offices, 
it  must  have  been  known  to  the  office? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Otherwise  they  could  not  have  got  the  money"? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Are  you  on  the  official  bond  of  Mr.  Cooper? — A.  I  am. 

Q.  For  how  much  did  you  sign? — A.  Ten  thousand  dollars. 

Q.  Did  you  justify  in  that  amount? — A.  I  did. 

Q.  Have  you  property  in  North  Carolina  worth  that  much? — A.  Not 
in  North  Carolina. 

Q.  You  have  not? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  any  i)roperty  that  would  in  our  law  be  subject  to  exe- 
cution there? — A.  I  cannot  say  that  I  have,  except  an  interest  in  a 
building  there  to  the  extent  of  "about  $\,(nn}  or  *l,r)00. 

(}.  What  building  is  that? — A.  The  tobacco  warehouse  building  of 
.lourgcnson  &  Co. 

Q.  You  are  interested  in  a  tobacco  warehouse  establishment? — A.  I 
hiive  an  inteiest  in  it  to  that  extent. 

Q.  Is  it  lawful  for  you  to  l)e  on  the  bond  of  tin;  collector  of  the  dis- 
trict ? — A.  I  see  nothing  ;ig;iinst  it. 

Q.  Is  there  nothing  in  the  law  to  forbid  officers  to  go  on  official  bonds? 
— A.  I  know  nothing  against  it  in  the  law. 

Q.  Notiiingin  tlie  hiw  forbidding  you  to  have  an  interest  in  the  man- 
ulaetui-e  of  tol)iieeo  or  whisky? — A.  Yes,  sir;  something  in  the  law 
;ibout  ha\ing  iin  interest  in  the  manunrcture  of  whisky. 

(}.  is  not  a  toltiieco  warehouse  considered  such  an  establishment  ? 
— A.  No,  sir. 

(f.  Is  it  within  (lie  hiw  .' — A.  ^■es,  sir;  1  h;i(l  ;id\:<;e  on  that  subject 
l»e(ore  1  entered  into  the  enterprise  with  Mr.  -lorgenson,  and  ascer- 
liiiiied  that  it  was  not  a  violation  of  the  law  to  be  interested  to  the  ex- 
tent that  I  am  in  the  sale  of  leaf  tobacco — tiie  (irude,  raw  matiu'ial — no 
more  tli;in  in  I  he  selling  of  coin,     'i'liat  was  tln^  advice  that  I  got. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  247 

Q.  But,  you  are  interested  in  tlie  warehouse  to  that  exteut  '? — A.  To 
that  extent;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  any  interest  in  the  nianufacture  of  tobacco  ? — A.  Xo, 
sir  ;  I  am  not  interested  in  any  manner,  sliape,  or  form. 

Q.  Would  you  consider  yourself  at  liberty  to  own  an  interest  in  a 
whisky-dealing  house  t — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  But  you  do  consider  yourself  at  liberty  to  have  an  interest,  not  in 
the  manufacturing,  but  as  a  dealer  in  tobacco  '? — A.  As  a  dealer.  The 
law  expressly  says  that  an  ofticer  shall  not  sell  distilled  s])irits  or  man- 
ufacture the  same,  or  manufacture  tobacco.  Yon  asked  me  about  that 
bond.  My  justification  was  made  by  reason  of  my  interest  in  my 
father's  estate,  who  died  a  year  ago,  and  left  a  large  estate,  and  my 
interest  in  it  is  worth  vastly  more  than  what  1  have  Justified  for  on  Mr. 
Cooper's  bond. 

Q.  But  it  is  not  in  North  Carolina.  Let  me  read  you  a  little  from  Mr. 
McLeer's  report  in  regard  to  Mr.  Clark's  distillery  or  warehouse : 

Mr.  Mott  said  that  when  he  was  appointed  general  store-keeper  andgauger  he  called 
at  the  collector's  office  and  received  the  keys  to  the  warehouses  in  his  division,  but  he 
did  not  remember  whether  he  had  the  key  to  the  warehouse  of  Clark's  distillerj'  at  the 
time  of  last  withdrawal  of  spirits  or  not,  but  naid  that  the  store-keeper  and  gauger,  J. 
C.  Setzer,  did  all  of  the  work  of  attaching  stamjis,  marking  barrels,  »S:c.,  when  the  four- 
teen packages  were  withdrawn,  and  that  while  Setzer  was  doing  it  he  and  Mr.  Clark, 
the  distiller,  drove  to  Troutman's  station  and  back,  being  absent  about  two  hours. 
That  on  their  return  Mr.  Setzer  had  all  the  packages  to  be  tax  paid  ready  for  removal ; 
that  he  did  not  examine  balance  of  packages  remaining  in  the  warehouse,  neither  did 
he  examine  the  fourteen  packages  tax  paid  so  as  to  ascertain  contents  of  same;  that 
on  leaving  the  warehouse  he  handed  the  key  to  Setzer  and  asked  him  to  return  same 
to  the  office. 

The  real  facts  are,  as  developed  by  investigation,  that  the  general  store-keeper 
and  gauger,  Walter  B.  Mote,  never  had  the  key  in  his  possession  ;  that  the  old  store- 
keeper, J.  C.  Setzer,  got  it  from  the  office  Jnly  11,  and  still  has  it  for  aught  that  either 
W.  B.  Mott  or  the  collector's  office  know  about. 

EDWAKD  McLEER. 

A.  That  accords  exactly  with  my  testimony,  except  as  to  his  examin- 
ation of  the  packages.  On  his  return  I  distinctly  remember  his  saying 
to  me  that  he. did  examine  the  packages  and  saw  they  were  prop- 
erly tax  i^aid  ;  he  also  told  me  at  that  time,  or  at  some  subsequent  time, 
that  his  object  in  getting  Setzer  to  perform  this  duty  for  him  was  that 
he  was  a  recently-appointed  store-keeper  and  gauger,  and  wanted  the 
experience  of  an  older  man. 

Q.  Now,  had  Mr.  Mott  any  right  to  designate  Setzer  to  withdraw 
those  spirits  and  stamp  them  ? — A.  No,  sir;  not  a  right  at  the  time  or 
under  the  circunistauces. 

Q.  Had  he  any  right  to  leave  Setzer  in  possession  of  the  spirits  and 
the  key  of  the  warehouse  ? — A.  He  had  no  right,  but  he  was  a  new 
store-keeper,  and  probably  this  was  his  first  act  as  store-keeper,  and 
probably  he  was  ignorant  of  the  law,  but  his  attention  has  since  been 
called  to  it. 

The  committee  here  took  a  recess  until  2  p.  m. 


Washington,  D.  C,  July  10,  1882. 
The  committee  met  after  recess  at  2  p.  m. 
W.  J.  Coite's  examination  resumed. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 
Question.  You  have  stated  that  you  had  known  of  whisky  being  sold 
at  95  cents  a  gallon ;  do  you  mean  to  say  that  the  distillers  sold  it  at 


248  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

that  price  ? — Answer.  1  have  known  contracts  to  be  made  by  wholesale 
dealers  tor  whisky  at  that  price ;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  By  distillers f — A.  Yes,  sir;  5  cents  over  the  tax  in  any  qnantity. 
Messrs.  Elliot  and  Eeniley,  of  Charlotte,  told  me  that  they  bought  a 
lot  of  whisky  at  95  cents  a  j»allon. 

Q.  Was  not  that  one  of  the  cases  where  i)arties  were  in  pressing-  need 
of  money  ? — A.  Probably ;  I  simply  state  the  fact.  '  1  kuow  it  to  be 
sold,  according  to  their  statement,  at  that  price. 

Q.  In  how  many  instances  have  yon  known  that  ? — A.  That  is  the 
only  authenticated  one,  except  in  the  case  of  government  sales  of  whisky 
in  certain  ])ortions  of  the  district  where  nobody  would  bid. 

Q.  In  speaking  of  ])ublic  sales  of  that  kind,  it  would  have  to  go  at 
whatever  it  brought  ? — A.  Over  the  taxes  and  expenses. 

Q.  In  speaking  of  political  assessments,  were  they  voluntary  ])ay- 
ments? — A.  So  far  as  I  know  anything  about  it  they  were  all  voluntar- 
ily and  cheerfully  made. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  know  of  anybody  discharged  for  not  paying  them  t 
— A.  No,  sir;  I  have  known  of  many  officers  who  never  paid  a  cent, 
and  they  are  still  in  the  service;  I  say  many,  I  mean  several. 

Q.  You  were  speaking  of  trouble  at  a  distillery  where  Mr.  Bogie  fig- 
ured just  now,  and  Sharpe  ;  Avas  that  the  Freeze  distillery  I — A.  I  don't 
exactly  understand  the  question. 

Q.  You  were  speaking  of  trouble  where  Mr.  Bogle  figured. — A. 
That  was  the  Freeze  distillery. 

Q.  Was  that  matter  thoroughly  investigated  ? — A.  I  think  it  was, 
and  it  came  up  in  the  United  States  court  at  the  last  session  in  States- 
ville.  The  agents  who  had  the  nuitter  in  charge  weL'e  there  and  testi- 
fied on  the  stand  under  oath. 

Q.  So  the  whole  thing  has  been  fully  and  completely  investigated ; 
first  by  the  commissioner? — A.  And  by  his  ageuts,  and  also  the  United 
States  courts. 

Q.  You  had  some  questions  put  to  you  upon  the  report  of  Mr.  Brooks, 
in  which  your  name  was  very  freely  used  ;  was  there  ever  any  peisonal 
difficulty  between  you  and  Mr.  Brooks? — A.  I  never  had  any  personal 
difficulty  with  him,  but  I  remember  on  one  occasion  a  little  personality 
that  occurred  between  us  that  might  have  given  him  reason  to  use  his 
official  ])osition  to  m\  detriment. 

Q.  Was  that  before  this  rei)()rt  was  nuide  ? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  State  what  it  was. — A.  It  was  at  the  time  of  the  seizure  of  the 
Daniels  distillery,  or  the  Freeze  distillery  seizure,  lie  came  into  the 
olhcc  to  investigate  it.  I,  of  course,  rendered  all  the  assistance  in  my 
power  at  the  tinu^  but  he  took  occasion  to  comment  ni)on  tlu^  ehaiaeter 
of  the  ditVerent  ollicers,  and  more  i)tirticnlarly  of  the  distillers  and  tax- 
])ayers  of  the  sixth  North  ('arolina  district,  stigmatizing  them  as  all 
thieves  ;  saying  that  they  would  all  steal  iind  delraud  the  government, 
or  words  to  that  effect.  I  contradicted  him  very  violently,  foi-  the  sim- 
ple; reason  that  1  had  some  p«'rsonal  friends  iimong  the  distillers ;  for 
instance.  Mi-.  ('oo])er's  brother  and  others.  I  told  him  he  was  mistaken. 
I  contradicted  him  rather  vioh'ntly.  lie  did  not  take  it  u]>  ])ersoii;illy 
at  the  time,  Init  I  siiwlie  Wiis  olfended,  :ind  since  that  time  he  h;is  been 
doing  ;ill  lie  ciin  l»v  innuendo  iiud  r<'p(»rt  to  ;it(iiek  my  name  ;ind  ol'licial 
dnties, 

().  Do  yon  know  that  he  went  deliberiitely  to  Avork  to  have  yon  ]»ut 
out  of  (»lljee  ■/ — A.  I  know  it  now .  I  did  not  know  it  until  a  week  oi- ten 
diivs  iigo  I  hilt  tlieie  were  reports  luiide  ;ig;iinsl  me  b_\  him.  I  ni^'ei' was 
allowed  to  know  I  he  eli;ir!M'ter  (»!'  t  hem,  noi-  did  1  know  his  reports,  which 
wcrr  |iiiiili'il  or  \\iilt(  ii — wliiil   \\;is  in  llieni. 


THE    SJXTH    D18TRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  249 

Q.  These  rei)orts  were  made  to  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Kevenue  ? 
— A.  I  am  so  informed. 

Q.  Did  he  investigate  them  ? — A.  Yon  mean  the  Commissioner  ? 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  He  has  not,  that  I  IcnoAv  of.  He  ])robal)ly,  liowever^ 
has  incjuired  as  to  tlie  substance  of  tliem,  or  I  wouhl  not  be  in  otitice, 
had  he  not  come  to  the  conchisioii  tliat  tliey  were  niiibiinded. 

Q.  You  were  retained  in  oftice  without  any  conii)hiint  of  the  Com- 
missioners, notwithstanding  what  Brooks  has  said  about  you  ? — A.  I 
am  retained  in  olhce. 

Mr.  Pool.  What  is  the  date  of  tliat  report  of  Mr.  Brooks's? 

The  Chairman.  It  was  1880,  1  think. 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Yon  are  not  aware  that  Mr.  Brooks's  rejiorthas  jnoduced  any  im- 
])ression  npon  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue  adverse  to  you  ? 
— A.  I  do  not  think  he  has  any  adverse  feeling  toward  me  now  ;  but 
I  think  that  there  was  an  impression  produced  on  the  department 
after  his  return,  because  I  was  sensible  of  it  myself. 

Q.  You  think  since  he  has  looked  into  the  matter  he  has  sustained 
you? — A.  I  have  heard  nothing  further  since  it  has  been  explained  to 
him  by  my  friends.  I  knew  nothing  of  the  character  of  the  report  at 
all  until  I  arrived  here  a  \veek  or  two  ago.  1  never  knew  he  made  any 
report  against  me. 

Q.  You  spoke  of  Mr.  Cobb  as  having  been  removed  from  office  and 
afterwards  employed  as  a  special  deputy  for  raiding.  He  was  simply 
employed  as  a  raider.  What  do  you  mean  by  that  ?  Please  explain 
the  duties  of  a  raider. — A.  There  is  a  certain  allowance  made  by  the 
Commissioner  of  Internal  Kevenue  monthly  for  the  employment  of  men 
to  ride  around  through  the  country  to  discover  and  destroy  illicit  dis- 
tilleries. He  was  not  required  to  be  a  man  of  education,  but  simply 
to  know  the  paths  in  the  jnountain,  &c.,  and,  as  I  stated  before,  they 
have  no  responsibility,  as  division  or  office  deputies  have.  They  give 
no  bond,  and  are  emi)loyed  from  n»onth  to  month  the  same  as  an  ordi- 
nary watchman  or  a  policeman  is  employed  to  arrest  men ;  that  is  the 
character  of  a  raider,  and  Mr.  Cobb  was  one  of  those. 

Q.  It  was  necessary  to  have  a  man  who  knew  the  by-ways  and  knew 
how  to  go  through  the  country ;  and  was  it  not  well  to  have  one  wdio 
was  acquainted  with  these  distillers  t — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  was  the  char- 
acter of  the  men  required,  who  knew  not  only  the  country  but  the  dis- 
tillers, and  they  were  smart  and  courageous  enough  to  go  around 
amongst  them  and  destroy  their  illicit  stills. 

Q.  It  was  not  requisite  for  such  a  man  that  he  should  have  particu- 
larly a  high  character  for  honesty  ? — A.  Oh,  no,  sir. 

Q.  In  that  respect  the  position  of  a  raider  was  dift'erent  from  other 
revenue  officers  '? — A.  Very  different. 

Q.  Do  you  consider  Mr.  Cobb  a  good  man  to  break  up  these  illicit 
distilleries  ? — A.  I  thought  at  the  time  that  he  i)erformed  his  duties  in 
discovering  and  breaking  up  distilleries  very  effectively.  The  collector 
thought  so  also. 

Q.  Did  he  break  uj)  many  ? — A.  He  was  the  effectual  means  of  break- 
ing a  goo<l  many  of  them  up.  He  knew  the  country  quite  well  in  which 
he  was  on  duty,  and  knew  most  of  the  illicit  distilleries  either  by  repu- 
tation or  location,  and  could  go  to  them. 

Q.  He  was  a  man  of  courage  ? — A.  I  judge  he  was,  sir.  I  never 
heard  of  his  taltering. 

Q.  You  said  something  of  Mr.  Drake's  editing  a  newspaper;  it  was 
only  a  weekly  paper,  was  it  not? — A.  A  w^eekly  pai)er:  yes,  sir. 


250  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  You  spoke  of  there  having  been  no  instance  since  you  had  been 
in  the  office  of  an  officer  drawing  double  pay  for  double  service;  that 
is,  of  a  deputy  being  both  a  store-keeper  and  ganger  at  the  same  time 
and  drawing  payf — A.  Not  to  my  knowledge  has  any  officer  drawn 
double  pay.  Before  I  went  into  the  office  down  there  the  internal  rev- 
enue was  a  little  more  lax  and  loose  in  these  i^articulars,  as  I  know, 
thau  it  is  now,  and  it  would  be  impossible  for  a  man  to  put  his  voucher 
through  at  i)resent  for  two  services  at  one  time ;  but  in  former  times  I 
think  it  was  to  a  certain  extent  the  custom  or  j^ractice  to  allow  them  to 
do  so. 

Q,  So  in  your  testimony  you  have  no  reference  to  as  long  ago  as  '73? 
— A.  Xot  previous  to  my  incumbency  of  the  office. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  I  believe  you  told  me  that  if  that  was  done  at  any  time  it  was 
against  the  law! — A.  At  any  time  since  my  incumbency  of  the  office. 
As  I  was  saying,  previous  to  that  time  it  was  so  loose  and  lax  that  it 
was  to  a  certain  extent  winked  at. 

Q.  You  told  me  that  you  had  been  in  the  Internal  Revenue  Depart- 
ment three  years  before  you  went  down  there  f — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  at  no  time  it  had  been  the  law  ? — A.  Not  that  I  know  of. 

Q.  So,  if  that  thiua'  was  done  there  it  was  in  violation  of  the  law? 
— A.  I  do  not  know  any  law  to  that  effect,  and,  therefore,  if  there  is  no 
law  it  could  not  be  a  violation  of  the  law. 

Q.  1  would  like  to  understand  how  you  testified  ? — A.  To  that 
effect — that  there  is  no  law  to  that  effect — where  an  officer  can  draw 
pay  for  two  different  services  at  the  same  time. 

Q.  Well,  if  it  was  drawn,  then  it  was  drawn  without  law? — A. 
Drawn  without  law — simply  by  usage. 

Q.  And  you  say  a  man  who  makes  raids  and  destroys  people's  prop- 
erty need  not  necessarily  be  a  man  of  good  character  ? — A.  Pardon  me, 
I  did  not  say  of  good  character. 

Q.  You  said  "honesty." — A.  [  said  he  need  not  be  a  man  of  educa- 
tion generally,  or  that  sort  of  thing.  As  you  know  yourself,  a  man  more 
of  a  mountaineer,  one  of  those  rough  characters,  will  do  more  effectual 
service  than  a  man  living  in  the  city  all  his  life;  and  Cobb  was  a  man 
of  that  kind. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  I  asked  you  if  he  need  be  a  man  of  any  particular  honesty,  and 
yon  said,  "  No." — A.  1  withdraw  that  answer,  and  say  that  he  must  be 
a  man  of  honesty. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  he  did  not  command  a  considerable  force  of 
guides  iind  assistants,  and  did  not  make  out  the  bills  of  expenses  for 
them  all  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

(}.  \Vli(»  did  ? — A.  TIh^  (lei)uty  in  charge  of  the  raiding  force,  who 
^Mnploys  them  ;tiid  lias  charge  of  or  commands  those  raiders — those 
lowci-  cmidoycs, 

(}.  Did  ii(»t  Mr.  Co!)!*  commaud  raiding  ])arties  ? — A.  I  do  not  know 
u  lictlici' he  r(!iilly  (•<unmand<'d  a  raiding  party  or  not;  but  he  was  in 
charge;  of  oik^  or  two  men  of  a  squad  to  ilestroy  certain  distilleries  or 
ferret  out  business  of  that  kind. 

(^.  VVImui  thiit  was  over,  did  he  m;ik(^  out  tlu'  bill  of  expenses  and 
di;iry  reports? — A.   No,  sir. 

Q.  Wlio  did  ? — A.  Tin-  iiicii  whom  he  cinidoycd,  whom  ln' engaged  as 
guides,  for  insliincc. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRfCT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  251 

Q.  They  made  out  their  own  reports? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Mr.  Cobb  liad  nothing'  to  do  witli  tliat  ? — A.  Xo,  sir.  They  were 
made  out  on  form  iiund)er  10,  a  sim]>Ie  litth'  imjx'r,  stating"  the  services 
performed  and  giving' a  receipt  i)er  diem  for  tlie  same. 

H.  W.  Moore  sworn  and  examined  for  the  g(»\ernment. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  Where  is  your  present  residence,  and  what  is  your  occupa- 
tion *? — Answer.  I  am  residing  in  this  city,  and  am  em])loyed  in  the 
Sixth  Auditor's  Ofitice. 

Q.  Were  yon  at  one  time  in  the  revenue  service  of  the  sixth  district 
of  Xorth  Carolina  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  In  what  capacity  ? — A.  Store-keeper  and  ganger. 

Q.  Who  were  you  store-kee]>er  for  first? — A.  John  H.  Davidson,  at 
Marion,  McDowell  County,  and  afterwards  for  A.  Simmons. 

Q.  How  long  were  3'ou  with  him  ? — A.  With  iNIr.  Simmons  one  month 
over  a  year. 

Q.  Where  did  you  go  to  then  ? — A.  Then  I  resigned  from  the  reve- 
nue service  and  went  into  mining. 

Q.  You  were  not  in  the  service  any  more  after  that  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Were  you  ever  a  store-keeper  for  John  Carson  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Where  was  Mr.  Carson's  distillery  ? — A.  It  was  known  as  Carson's, 
but  Davidson  was  the  i>roprietor.  Carson  never  run  the  distillery  to 
my  knowledge. 

Q.  He  was  interested  at  all  events,  lie  was  the  owner  of  it  ? — A.  I 
should  think  not.     It  was  in  the  seventh  district. 

Q.  That  is  the  one  I  am  thinking  of.  Did  it  susi)eud  before  you 
left  ? — A.  Mr.  Davidson,  you  mean  ? 

Q.  Yes. — A.  Mr.  Davidson  closed  up  and  Simmons  succeeded  him. 
It  was  in  the  seventh  district  Ijefore  the  district  was  changed. 

Q.  How  much  whisky  did  you  leave  in  the  warehouse  when  the  dis- 
tillery suspended"? — A.  lam  not  able  to  state  that.  My  reports  will 
show.  There  were  two  warehouses  in  charge  of  the  store-keeper  there, 
and  I  have  forgotten  the  number  of  gallons  in  each. 

Q.  Were  you  in  charge  of  both  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  the  number  of  barrels  ? — A.  No,  sir;  I  could  not 
recollect,  but  I  could  give  it  to  you  approximately. 

By  I\lr.  Pool  : 

Q.  What  time  was  this  ? 

The  Witness,  It  was  in  1878  or  1879.  T  went  therein  March,  1878, 
and  left  there  in  June,  1879.  I  think  in  the  Simmons  warehouse  there 
was  something'  over  2,(»00  gallons,  and  in  the  Davidson  warehouse  possi- 
bly 1,200  gallons.     The  reports  in  the  oftice  show  all  these  things. 

Q.  Did  you  gauge  it  to  ascertain  the  quantity  when  you  left  and  re- 
l)ort  it  ? — A.  No,  sir;  I  gauged  it  in.  It  is  not  the  rule  to  gauge  when 
you  leave  a  warehouse.     You  turn  it  over  to  the  officer  succeeding  you. 

Q.  Was  it  not  afterwards  discovered  that  a  large  part  of  those  bar- 
rels i)urporting'  to  be  whisky  contained  water? — A.  So  I  learned  while 
in  Washington ;  1  heard  that  report  while  I  was  still  in  Yancey. 

Q.  How  much  of  it  was  found  to  be  barrels  tilled  with  water  ? — A.  I 
do  not  recollect  the  number.  The  men  know  who  investigated  it.  The 
whole  matter  was  investigated,  so  I  understood. 

Q.  Have  you  any  reason  to  believe  that  was  changed  while  in  j'our 
care  f — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Who  succeeded  you  as  store-keeiier? — A,  M.  M,  Teagne, 


252  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Wbeu  was  it  discovered — dining-  Teagiie's  administration  ! — A, 
Yes,  sir.     Eight  or  nine  months  after  1  left. 

Q.  In  whieh  warehonse  was  it,  or  was  it  in  both  of  them  ? — A.  I  do 
not  recollect.  I  think  ])ossib]y  in  both.  I  do  not  recollect  those  cir- 
cnmstances.     I  only  heard  the  rnnior  as  it  came  from  Marion. 

Q.  Have  you  any  knowledge  of  any  contract  between  the  distiller 
and  collector  and  the  owner  to  pay  the  taxes  on  tlie  whisky  for  him  ? — 
A.  Xo,  sir.  A  contract  between  the  distiller  and  collector  and  the 
owner  ? 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  To  pay  the  taxes  for  the  owner,  the  distiller,  and  collector;  the 
distiller  was  not  the  owner  of  the  whisky,  as  I  understand  it. — A.  The 
distiller  Avas  the  owner  of  the  whisky,  so  iar  as  I  know. 

Q.  Was  there  no  contract  between  any  of  the  government  officers 
and  the  distiller  to  pay  the  tax,  tine  on  the  same,  and  to  say  nothing 
about  it"? — A.  I^ot  to  my  knowledge.  I  never  knew  anything  of  that 
kind. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  tell  any  one  that  Dr.  Mott  had  threatened  you  ? — A. 
No,  sir. 

Q.  And  that  if  he  did  turn  you  oft"  you  would  come  here  to  Washing- 
ton and  ''  bust "  him  f — A.  ISTo,  sir  ;  I  am  positive  I  never  said  anything 
of  that  kind. 

Q.  Were  you  not  attacked  or  accused  in  some  way  as  being  responsi- 
ble for  the  loss  of  this  whisky "? — A.  I  understood  that  Teague  said  that 
the  warehouse  Avas  left  in  a  bad  condition.  That  is  the  only  knowledge 
I  had  of  it.  I  never  paid  any  attention  to  it,  for  when  I  turned  over 
the  warehouse  it  was  in  good  order,  as  the  reports  showed  ;  and  I  think 
that  matter  was  determined  by  the  department. 

Q.  You  reported  it  in  good  order  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  He  received  it  in 
good  order  and  examined  it  at  the  time  it  was  taken. 

Q.  And  you  did  not  know  anything  of  any  arrangement  to  pay  the 
taxes  for  the  lost  whisky  ? — A.  l^o,  sir. 

Q.  During  the  time  of  your  charge  there,  did  Mr.  Carson  exercise  any 
owiiershi])  about  the  distillery  warehouse  ? — A.  The  distillery  was  upon 
his  propinty,  and  he  had  furnished  grain  to  the  distiller,  and  as  I  un- 
derstood he  was  to  be  i>aid  out  of  the  sale  of  the  liquor  taken  out,  and 
it  was  his  mill  that  was  used.  The  distiller  had  to  pay  for  it,  and  the 
distiller  was  not  a  very  resjtonsibh^  man,  and  he  ])ossibly  had  a  lien 
n]»on  the  liipior,  and  1  only  inferred  that  he  would  necessarily  take  care 
of  his  own  interest. 

J.  Ta'S'Lok,  swoi'n  and  ex.imined  for  the  government. 

r>y  the  ("lIAIIJMyVN: 

(^Micstion.  \Vher<^  is  your  residence? — .Answer.  Cherokee  County, 
>«'ortii  ( 'aiolina. 

i^.   NN'liat  is  your  age  '. — A.    1  will  be  si\t.\  -one  in  October. 

(}.  State  if  you  or  any  of  your  lamily  at  aii>  time  have  been  engaged 
in  distilling. — A.  ^ly  son  was  engaged  in  it. 

Q.   What  was  his  mnne  ? — A.  flohn  M.  Taylor. 

(^  When  did  he  begin  to  distill  '?— A.  Wcdl  he  tiled  his  bond  in  Feb- 
ruary, 1S7!». 

(i.  Tell  the  \vlM»le  story. — A.  in  May,  lS7i>,  lie  was  reijnired  to  tile  a 
n<'W  bond.  At  the  commencement  of  tli«'  fiscal  year  In'  madi'  an  a])pli- 
(•ation  for  the  s;ime  to  l'\   I*.  Axh\v,  the  de|Mity  collector. 

().    lie  resides  in    ih;it    connty  .' — A.    He   lixcs   in    iMMr|)liy.      lie  was 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROFJXA.  253 

at  liim  iVeqneiitly  to  know  when  his  bond  would  be  back,  so  as  to  com- 
mence; not  hearing'  iu  Sejitember  he  addressed  a  letter  to  tlie  (h'part- 
ment. 

Q.  What  <U'i)artment  ? — A.  To  Mr.  Kan  m  to  know  wlien  he  won  hi 
1)e  allowed  to  commence,  lie  had  his  ct>rn  and  everything  ready,  and 
he  received  a  letter  from  Mr.  liogers,  the  de])uty  commissioner  at  Wash- 
ington, stating  he  had  referred  his  letter  to  Dr.  Mott,  and  referred 
my  son  to  that  office.  Not  long  after  timt  the  letter  arrived  that  he 
had  written  for  an  explanation  from  the  office  at  Washington,  and  on 
the  back  of  his  letter  was  written,  "  It  was  supposed  his  bond  had  been 
.sleeping  quietly  in  some  local  post-office."  That  was  all  the  explana- 
tion he  got. 

Q.  Saying  his  bond  had  not  gone  on  promptly. — A.  That  was  from 
Dr.  Mott.  His  name  was  to  it.  But  Mr.  Axley  said  the  handwriting 
was  Mr.  Coite's.  On  the  IGth  of  December  an  order  came  to  put  him 
at  work,  and  they  started  the  distillery  on  December  16th,  the  same 
year.     They  put  Mr.  H.  L.  Howell  in  as  store-keeper. 

Q.  He  was  put  in  as  store-keeper? — A.  Yes,  sir.  My  son  objected  to 
Mr.  Howell  as  not  a  proi)er  num,  but  Mr.  Axley  insisted  that  he  should 
go  on  with  him,  and  he  would  have  him  exchanged  and  some  other  man 
])ut  in  his  place  at  the  Urst  of  the  next  month,  but  that  was  not  done. 
He  complained  that  he  did  not  want  him  at  all,  but  Mr.  Howell  read  a 
letter  he  said  from  the  department,  that  he  was  responsible ;  that  the 
store-keepers  were  responsible  for  deficiencies. 

Q.  You  have  not  said  anything  about  the  deficiencies ;  after  you  began 
to  distill  was  there  a  deficiency  found  every  month  ? — A.  A  deficiency 
the  first  half  month. 

Q.  Below  the  minimum  amount  allowed — two  gallons  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
My  son  complained  to  Mr.  Axley  about  it. 

Q.  What  complaint  did  he  make  ? — A.  That  there  was  a  deficiency, 
and  the  whisky  was  made. 

Q.  Who  by  ! — A.  By  Mr.  Howell,  who  used  it  out  of  the  cistern  room 
and  out  of  the  warehouse,  and  he  promised  to  remove  him,  but  did  not 
do  it.  Then  Mr.  Howell  read  a  letter  to  my  son  that  he  was  responsi- 
ble for  the  deficiency. 

Q.  Where  did  that  letter  purport  to  come  from? — A.  From  Dr.  Mott. 

Q.  That  the  store-keeper  was  responsible  for  the  deficiency  ? — A.  Yes, 
.sir;  and  he  saw  Mr.  Axley,  and  I  saw  him  myself,  and  he  said  it  was 
so;  so  my  son  had  employed  a  man  to  furnish  the  meal  and  the  wood, 
and  he  went  off  to  Weverville  College,  up  near  Asheville. 

Q.  Your  son  had  a  regular  distiller  employed  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  Jack 
Grant. 

Q.  And  employed  a  man  to  furnish  meal  and  wood,  and  then  went 
off"  to  college? — A.  Yes,  sir;  under  the  impression  that  Mr.  Howell, 
the  store-keeper,  was  responsible  for  any  loss  he  might  sustain.  I  was 
there  while  his  distillery  was  running,  and  complained  myself  to  Mr. 
Axley  that  my  son  never  could  stand  that.  The  whisky  was  made  off 
with,  and  there  was  a  deficiency  every  month. 

Q.  State  how  that  deficiency  took  place. — A.  It  took  place  by  Mr. 
Howell  making  away  with  it. 

Q.  How  did  he  do  that! — A.  He  would  let  it  go  to  any  of  his  friends 
that  would  come  around,  and  the  distiller  showed  me  an  account  where 
he  had  paid  his  own  debts  out  of  the  whisky. 

Q.  Did  you  see  any  whisky  removed  yourself? — A.  I  saw  it  several 
times. 

Q.  How  was  it  removed? — A.  By  jug-fuls,  bottle-fuls,  and  such  like. 


254  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Riglit  before  your  eyes  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  no  secret  about  it.  It  was 
public. 

Q.  How  long'  do  you  think  your  sou  ke])t  on  distilling  ? — A.  He  kept 
on  in  that  way,  trying  to  get  Howell  out,  till  I  believe  it  was  in  Octo- 
ber tliat  he  suspended  to  get  rid  of  him, 

Q.  In  October,  1880;  he  began  in  1879? — A.  Yes,  sir;  in  October, 
1880. 

Q.  He  then  suspended  to  get  rid  of  Mr.  Howell? — A.  Just  for  one 
month,  and  H.  A.  Moss  was  put  in  and  he  ran  up  to  February  with 
Moss. 

Q.  That  would  be  February,  1881! — A.  Yes,  sir;  when  he  was  noti- 
fied by  Mr.  Axley  that  he  was  going  to  seize  ui)on  the  whisky,  and 
sell  his  fixtures  and  all  for  the  deficiency. 

Q.  How  juuch  did  the  deficiency  amount  to  ? — A.  I  never  did  know. 
I  never  learned. 

Q.  How  much  did  it  amount  to,  according  to  your  calculation  and  the 
distiller's '?— A.  There  was  something  over  $100;   $100,  I  believe. 

Q.  Assessed '! — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  Keep  right  on  with  the  story. — A.  M}-  son  did  not  feel  willing  to 
pay  for  the  loss  when  it  was  occasioned  by  the  store-keeper;  in  fact,  he 
would  not  pay  the  deficiency  because  it  was  done  by  the  act  of  the 
store-keeper  himself. 

Q.  Then  what  was  done  when  your  son  refused  to  i)ay  the  deficiency  ? — 
A.  His  distillery  was  seized  on  and  sold  out;  the  liquor  was  seized  and 
carried  away.  It  remained  in  the  Avareliouse  for  several  months.  After 
the  second  or  thiril  sale  then  it  was  carried  to  Asheville  and  sold. 

Q.  How  much  of  it  was  sold  at  the  distillery  ? — A.'  I  don't  know;  I 
was  not  there.     My  son  was  there  at  the  sales. 

Q.  AVhat  did  it  bring  ? — A.  I  was  informed  by  Mr.  Axley  that  it 
brought  02  or  93  cents  a  gallon. 

Q.  Two  or  three  cents  over  the  taxes? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  \Miy  did  they  not  sell  it  from  the  distillery? — A.  Mr.  Axley  said 
he  could  not  get  bidders. 

Q.  How  much  whisky  was  in  the  distillery  when  it  was  seized? — A. 
I  cannot  tell  how  much  was  in  the  house  when  it  was  first  seized,  but 
in  .July,  when  Mv.  Cooper — I  think  he  regauged  it — he  gave  to  Mr.  Moss 
the  amount  that  was  in,  after  the  third  sale,  as  1,150  gallons. 

Q.  'J'hat  was  the  sale  at  the  warehouse  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  After  .Mr.  C'oopei-  had  gauged  it? — A.  He  gauged  it,  or  Moss,  and 
gave  that  amount,  as  found  by  Cooper.     He  aided  Cooi)erin  gauging. 

Q.   Is  this  the  gauging  certificate  of  Mr.  Moss?     (Quoting:) 

Vallkvtown,  N.  C,  July  dth,  1881. 
Ill  (listillcr.v  warclioiKse  of  J.  M.  Taylor,  No.  IHiKJ,  in  the  (itli  (list,  of  N.  C,  there  is 
fourteen  hiinihed  and  lilty  >j;allon.s  of  corn  whisky  in  said  warehouse. 

H.  A.  MOSS, 
Storv-kvtptr  and  Ganger. 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  was  for  the  liipior  that  had  been  seizt'd  and  sold  at  the  still- 
liouse? — A.  TImmc  were  three  sides;  the  lirst  in  February,  the  next  in 
IMareh.  'J'Ju'y  foiccd  my  son  fo  close  up  in  Maich.  They  sold  out  every- 
thing— hogs,  si  ill,  wild  everytiiing.  Tlien  in  ^larch  they  had  another 
sale.  1'lieii  alter  that  there  was  a  sale;  1  believe  it  was  in  April  or 
May.  Then  I  wrote  a  letter  to  CoII<'<'tor  Mott,  through  Mr.  Axley,  as 
being  the  boiidsiiiiiii  that  !  would  st;iiid  icsponsible,  asking  him  not  to 
exjtose  tile  \\hisk\  lor  .s;ile  any  more;  tlnit  i  would  j)ay  otf  the  deficiency. 
J   1M'\  <•!•  lir;ii<l   rilltlM-r  iVoiii   it. 


THE    81XTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  255 

Q.  What  (lid  they  now  do  witli  tliis  1,450  gallons  ? — A.  They  removed 
it  from  the  warehouse  and  brought  it  upon  the  public  road,  and  carried 
it  from  there  to  Asheville  and  made  a  sale  of  it.  I  never  learned  how 
much  they  sohl,  or  anything  about  it.  I  have  been  at  the  de])artment 
from  time  to  time  and  cannot  ascertain.  They  say  no  report  has  been 
made  to  tiie  department  here. 

Q.  Can  you  tell  how  much  whisky  was  sold,  and  what  it  Ijruught .' — 
A.  I  don't  remember  how  much  was  seized,  or  anything  about  it. 

Q.  You  say  no  report  has  ever  been  made  to  them  ? — A.  None. 

Q.  When  were  you  at  the  department  last  to  nmke  inquiry  ? — A. 
Friday. 

Q.  Last  Friday  ! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  the  sale  of  all  that  liquor  satisfied  the  as- 
sessment or  not ;  was  anything  else  levied  on  ? — A.  My  son's  land  was 
levied  on. 

Q.  For  how  much  ? — A.  Two  hundred  and  twenty-eight  acres  in  one 
lot  and  ninety-three  in  another. 

Q.  For  those  assessments  ? — A.  I  really  don't  know  what  the  assess- 
ments were ;  whether  taxes  on  the  spirits  or  whether  the  deticieucy. 
I  never  did  learn. 

Q.  Is  that  in  Mr.  Axley's  handwriting  (handing  paper  to  witness)  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir ;  that  is  his  handwriting. 

Q.  Is  this  an  advertisement"?  Where  did  you  get  this  1 — A.  My  son 
took  it  down;  it  was  a  notice  Mr.  Axley  gave  him  then  that  he  would 
sell.     (Reading:) 

INTEKNAL-ItEVENUE    SALE,    POSTPONED. 

I  will  sell  for  cash  to  the  highest  bidder  at  distillery  warehouse,  No.  1393,  of  J.  M. 
Taylor,  on  the  2lst  day  of  Feb'y,  1881,  all  the  whisky  on  deposit  in  said  warehouse 
subject  to  the  taxes  due  the  government.  Also  224  acres  of  land  on  same  day  at  resi- 
dence of  H.  A.  Moss,  in  Valleytown  Township,  known  as  tract  No.  21,  in  7th  district; 
seized  as  the  property  of  J.  M.  Taylor  by  virtue  of  a  warrant  of  distraint  in  my  hand^' 
against  said  Taylor  for  internal-revenue  taxes,  interest,  and  penalty,  this  14th  day  of 
February,  1881. 

F.  P.  AXLEY, 
Deputy  Coll.,  10  Div.,  6th  Dist.,  US'.  Carolina. 

Q.  That,  you  say,  was  one  of  the  advertisements  that  was  put  up? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  and  then  there  was  another  in  March. 

Q.  You  say,  to  the  best  of  your  knowledge,  that  the  assessment  levied 
for  the  deficiency  of  your  son's  distillery  was  a  little  over  $100  ? — A. 
Moss  said  something  over  $100. 

Q.  The  store-keeper  told  you  that  it  was  something  over  $100  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  for  that  there  was  a  lot  of  whisky  sold ;  you  do  not  know  how 
much! — A.  I  don't  know  anything  about  it. 

Q.  On  three  different  days  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  your  warehouse,  fixtures,  tubs,  and  everything  were  sold  ? — 
A.  Everything,  I  think,  was  sold  in  February. 

Q.  The  1,150  gallons  remaining  was  hauled  off  toward  Asheville^ 
and  disposed  of  in  some  way  ? — A.  I  cannot  tell  you,  I  never  had  any 
report  of  it. 

Q.  And  that  assessment  still  was  not  satisfied,  and  they  levied  on  the 
land  ! — A.  My  son's  land.  Yes,  sir,  in  March ;  the  notice  gave  notice 
of  the  sale  of  the  fixtures  and  still,  I  think. 

Q.  Had  you  any  notice  of  how  much  was  due ;  how  much  they  claimed 
was  due  still  f — A.  No,  sir. 


256  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  After  the  warehouse  was  seized  and  your  son's  distillery  closed 
up,  &c.,  did  you  and  he  remain  there  ! — A.  We  went  down  to  the 
Cherokee  Nation,  in  the  Indian  Territory. 

Q.  And  this  gauging  by  Mr.  Moss  and  the  hauling  off  of  the  liquor 
towards  Asheville,  was  it  after  you  left  or  before'^ — A.  When  I  got 
back. 

Q.  When  did  you  get  back? — A.  I  came  back  in  December. 

Q.  Tell  all  you  know  of  the  condition  of  the  warehouse  while  you 
were  away,  after  it  was  in  the  hands  of  the  store-keei)ers  and  officers  1 
— A.  I  don't  know  the  condition.  I  went  away  and  it  had  been  broken 
into  by  some  parties ;  they  had  gone  in  and  carried  out  the  liquor  and 
w^ere  selling  it  on  the  road. 

Q.  Who  were  the  parties  ? — A.  There  was  a  colored  man  by  the  name 
of  Adam  jVlooney,  and  Yance  Marshall,  were  the  two. 

Q.  Did  you  take  any  steps  to  indict  them  ? — A.  My  son  tried  to  get 
a  true  bill  against  them  before  the  court,  and  after  he  got  a  warrant 
they  ran  away  and  went  to  Tennessee  and  were  gone  four  or  five  months, 
and  when  thej^  got  back  we  got  them,  but  could  not  get  evidence  suffi- 
cient to  bind  them. 

Q.  Did  you  see  where  the  warehouse  had  been  broken  into  f — A.  No, 
sir;  I  never  have  been  there  since  they  closed  it  up. 

Q.  Were  you  told  in  what  manner  it  had  been  broken  into  ? — A.  At 
the  top  of  the  house,  they  tore  off  the  boards  and  went  in,  so  I  was  in- 
formed ;  I  never  have  been  there. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  the  store-keeper's  attention  had  been  called 
to  the  condition  of  the  warehouse? — A.  When  I  got  home  and  found  it 
was  in  that  condition,  I  reported  it  to  Mr.  Axley.  After  court  he  and 
Mr.  Moss  went  up  and  fixed  the  top  of  the  house,  which  had  been  stand- 
ing open  for  two  months  or  more. 

Q.  It  had  been  open  for  two  months! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  While  in  the  hands  of  the  government  ? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  after  it  had 
been  seized  and  taken  charge  of. 

Q.  Did  you  receive  any  notice  after  it  was  seized  to  withdraw  liquor 
from  the  warehouse  and  pay  taxes  on  it  ! — A.  No,  sir  ;  none. 

Q.  Did  your  son  receive  any  ? — A.  Not  that  I  know  of. 

Q.  1  saw  this  in  your  papers ;  when  was  it  seized  1 — A.  Some  time  in 
February,  1881. 

Q.  I  see  here  wliat  I  i)resume  is  in  Mr.  Axley's  handwriting  (quoting) : 

Murphy,  N.  C,  March  llth,  1881. 

.J.  M.  Tavlok,  Esi].  : 

Sik:  By  direction  of  J.  J.  Mott,  coll.  Gtli  district,  you  are  required  by  the  first  day 
of  April,  1881,  to  withdraw  from  your  warehouse,  on  account  of  excessive  wastage, 
tasks  No.  r>,  8,  9,  10,  113,  14,  15,  10,  17,  18,  19,  20,  21,  22,  and  48,   if  not  withdrawn   by 
the  time  mentioned,  for  amount  due  original  contents. 
Respectfully, 

F.  P.  AXLEY,  D.  Coll. 

Q.  Is  that  Mr.  Axley's  handwriting? — A.  (Examining.)  I  believe  it 
is;  it  hxtUs  like  it. 

Q.  If  that  was  ever  served  on  youi-  son,  it  was  after  the  liquor  had 
been  seized'^ — A.  Yes,  sii'. 

Q.  And  was  in  the  liaixls  of  the  government  f — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  I'ooL.   What  is  the  date  of  it,  Mr.  Chairman  1 

The  CirAiU'MAN.  Kleventh  of  Marcli,  1881. 

Q.  The  snbstaii(;e  of  your  story  is  tliat  your  son  began  to  distill  in 
December,  187!l,  with  one  Howell  as  storekeeper  ? — A.  Yea,  sir. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  257 

Q.  That  Howell  commenced  using,  canying-  off,  disposing  of,  and 
=ielling  your  son's  liquor  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  drinking  it  liimself  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  He  was  very  bad  for 
drinking. 

Q.  And  you  liad  complained  to  Mr.  Axley,  the  deputy  collector,  resi- 
dent in  tbat  county,  and  that  Mr.  Axley  showed  you  a  letter  from  the 
department  saying  that  the  store-keeper  would  be  hehl  responsible  for 
the  wastage  1 — A.  It  was  Mr.  tlowell  who  showed  me  a  letter. 

Q.  From  the  department  showing  the  store-keei)er  would  be  held  re- 
sponsible for  the  deficiency  ? — A.  That  he  was  responsible  for  the  defi- 
ciency. 

Q.  That  after  that  your  son  went  on  distilling,  and  the  waste  and  ab- 
straction of  the  liquor  by  Howell  kept  on,  and  there  was  a  deficiency 
every  month,  until  your  son  had  to  stop  to  get  rid  of  him"? — A.  He 
suspended  for  a  month. 

Q.  During  the  month  of  October? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  afterwards,  in  February,  the  liquor,  still-house,  and  fixtures 

were  seized  for  this  deficiency,  which  amoanted A.  As  1  told  you,  it 

amounted  to  something  over  $100 — I  think,  $192. 

Q.  Nearly  $200,  then  "?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  for  that  a  part  of  the  liquor — how  much  you  don't  know — 
was  sold  at  the  still-house  I — A.  There  were  three  sales. 

Q.  It  brought  92  or  93  cents  a  gallon  I — A.  So  I  was  informed  by 
Mr.  Axley. 

Q.  And  that  after  that  sale  the  gangers,  Mr.  Cooper  and  Mr.  Moss, 
gauged  it  and  reported  in  this  certificate  that  there  was  1,450  gallons 
left  ?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Which  was  hauled  off  toward  Asheville  ? — A.  A  portion  of  it. 

Q.  It  was  s  )ld  there,  at  how  much  you  do  not  know,  and  have  never 
been  able  to  get  a  report  of? — A.  I  called  on  Mr.  Axley  for  a  report,  as 
I  was  the  bondsman,  and  wanted  to  settle  up.  He  said  he  had  made  a 
report  to  the  department  and  supposed  I  would  find  it  at  Washington. 
I  cannot  find  it,  becjiuse  it  could  not  be  produced  in  the  department,  as 
I  tried  it  on  Friday. 

Q.  Have  you  any  knowledge  of  what  was  done  with  any  of  it  on  the 
road  to  Asheville! — A.  The  wagoner  said  they  drank  about  half  a  barrel 
of  it. 

Q.  Was  any  of  it  sold? — A.  Well,  it  was  on  the  road  they  sold  it. 

Q.  That  is  what  I  mean? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  much  did  they  sell  on  the  road? — A.  Three  barrels  were 
turned  out  in  one  week. 

Q.  Peddled  out  as  they  went  along? — A.  They  had  it  on  the  road 
before  they  started. 

Q.  Did  they  sell  it  in  bulk  or  peddle  it  out? — A.  Mr.  John  Rowland 
said  he  got  a  quart  and  paid  fifty  cents  for  it.  They  sold  it  to  anybody 
who  wanted  it. 

Q.  You  were  there  a  ])ortion  of  the  time  when  the  still  was  running? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  I  was  there  until  it  susjtended. 

Q.  Was  there  not  leason  to  supi>ose  tliat  the  deficiency  arose  from 
the  unskillfulness  or  ignorance  of  the  distiller  t — A.  No,  sir;  we  had  one 
of  the  best  distillL'rs  in  that  whole  ountry.  He  was  one  of  the  greatest 
block :nlers,  and  they  indicted  him  ami  got  him  out  of  the  business  to 
get  him  lo  distill  in  a  legal  distiilery.    Jack  Grant  made  the  best  wliiskv. 

Q.  Did  the  store-keei)er,  Howell,  make  any  pretense  that  Grant  was 
cheating? — A.  No;  I  do  not  know  that  he  <lid. 
S.  Mis.  110 17 


258  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Did  he  make  any  i)retense  that  you  or  your  son  were  smuggling? — 
A.  No;  the  corn  was  all  furnished  and  the  whisky  made.  Grant  said 
the  full  capacity  was  made;  and  the  old  man,  Hoyle,  he  distilled  one 
month — in  September.  He  had  McDonnel  who  furnished  the  meal  and 
wood,  and  put  down  every  day's  work,  and  it  went  largely  over  the 
capacity. 

Q.  And  'Sir.  Axley  promised  you  to  have  Mr.  Howell  removed  1? — A, 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  But  he  never  did  it? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Did  youjknow  whether  your  complaint  of  Mr.  Howell  ever  reached 
as  far  as  the  ears  of  Collector  Mott? — A.  I  do  not  know. 

Q.  You  complained  to  Mr.  Axley  f — A.  My  son  was  directed  to  enter 
his  complaint  before  Deputy  Collector  Axley. 

Q.  Did  you  hear  anything  about  Howell's  pay  being  kept  back  by 
the  department  for  this  deticiency  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  He  showed  me  ai 
letter  from  Dr.  Mott  that  he  would  retain  his  pay  for  the  month  of  May 
for  the  defici^'nc}^  in  the  distillery  of  John  M.  Taylor,  and  Mr.  Howell 
said  that  I  and  Grant,  and  my  son,  must  give  a  certificate  that  the 
deticiency  was  not  on  his  account.  We  did  not  give  the  certificate } 
and  he  said  "  he  would  blow  us  to  hell." 

Q.  He  tried  to  force  you  to  give  a  certificate  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  We  did 
not  give  it,  and  did  not  get  blowed  there. 

Cross  examination  by  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Why  did  not  your  son  pay  that  $100  and  stop  all  these  proceed- 
ings ? — A.  Because  the  deficiency  was  nuide  by  a  government  officer^ 
and  he  was  notified  that  he  was  responsible  for  the  deficiency  himself, 

Q.  Your  son  conld  have  stopped  all  these  proceedings  upon  a  mo- 
mejit  by  paying  that  $100? — A.  I  guess  he  could. 

Q.  What  did  the  fixtures  sell  for  ? — A.  I  do  not  know. 

Q.  You  heard  somebody  say,  did  you  not  ? — A.  No. 

Q.  Did  not  your  son  attend  the  sale  ? — A.  Yes ;  my  son  w^as  there. 

Q.  Nearly  everything  was  sold ;  you  report  that  everything  was 
sold;  did  not  you  hear  what  your  son  said  they  were  sold  for? — A. 
No,  sir. 

Q.  You  never  heard  anybody  say  what  the  still  sold  for? — A.  No. 

Q.  Did  it  sell  for  less  than  it  was  worth  ? — A.  I  cannot  tell  that.  I  do 
not  know  what  it  brought. 

Q.  Did  your  son  com])]ain  that  it  sold  for  less  than  it  was  Avorth  ? — 
A.  What  he  complaine<l  about  was,  the  hogs  that  he  had  been  selling 
for  $10  a  head  brought  ."iTi  cents  all  around. 

(^  And  he  had  been  paying  $10  for  them? — A.  He  had  sold  theui 
for  $10  to  Mr,  l^'ergiison. 

Q.   How  many  hogs  did  he  have? — A.  One  hundred  and  fifty;  I  guess. 

Q.  He  lost  more  on  the  hogs,  then,  than  $100  would  have  amounted 
to? — A.   I  guess  he  did. 

Q.  Who  bonght  the  hogs? — A.  Mr.  Bell  bought  a  portion,  and  Mr. 
Tiithnm — two  men  running  distilleries. 

Q.   Did  not  they  bny  them  in  lor  your  son  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  How  do  yoii  know  they  did  not  f — A.  Because  he  has  had  none 
since. 

if.   lie  li;is  li:id  none  since  '? — A.  My  son  lu'Vi-r  owned  a  hog  since. 

C^.  Could  not  your  son  have  s()ld  these  hogs  at  private  sale,  and  paid 
this  tax  v<'iy  easily  '! — A.  He  might  have  done  it,  but  he  would  not  do 
it,  be(!an.'-;e  the  delieieney  w;is  caused  by  the  government  olficer. 

C^.  So  your  s^tn  set  himself  iij)  to  light  the  government  and  take  the 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  259 

consequences! — A.  I  do  not  know  whether  that  was  the  j;overnnient ; 
it  was  that  department,  or  nienibeis  of  the  government,  or  officers. 

Q.  And  he  was  detc^rmined  to  sink  the  whole  thin"'  ratlier  than  pay 
that  1 100? — A.  lie  was  determined  to  see  the  bottom  of  it. 

Q.  Yoii  know  what  the  hogs  were  sold  for,  and  know  what  tliey  were 
worth,  but  have  uo  idea  what  the  still  sold  for ! — A.  N^o ;  I  do  uot. 

(2-  What  else  was  sold  I — A.  The  tubs  and  everything  about  it. 

Q.  Have  vou  iin  id(^a  what  they  sold  for  ? — A.  No;  I  do  not  know, 

Q,  Who  bought  them!— A.  Mr.  Moss. 

Q.  Who  was  Mr.  Moss? — A.  He  was  the  gauger. 

Q.  At  the  time  what  else  was  sold;  any  (;orn  ? — A.  Xo. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  what  the  tubs  sold  for? — A.  No. 

Q.  But  you  know  who  bought  them  ? — A.  Mr.  Moss  got  them. 

Q.  Who  bcmght  the  still '? — A.  He  got  one  of  the  stills. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  what  he  paid  for  it  I — A.  No. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  heard  anybody  say  wliat  lie  paid  for  it  f — A.  No. 
sir. 

Q.  You  said  there  were  three  sales  of  whisky  f — A.  I  was  informed 
by  Mr.  Axley  that  there  was.     I  was  never  at  one  of  them. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  the  whisky  sold  for  at  these  sales  ? — A.  Mr. 
Axley  said  9'2  and  1K3  cents. 

Q.  Do  you  know  how  much  was  sold? — A.  No :  I  do  not. 

Q.  Could  not  your  son  have  withdrawn  the  whisky,  sold  it,  and  paid 
that  tax  easy  enough  at  any  time  ? — A.  Y^es;  but  he  did  not  propose  to 
do  it. 

Q.  Did  not  the  distiller  make  regular  returns  •  upon  forms — do  you 
know  anything  about  the  forms? — A.  No;  I  do  not  know  anything 
about  them. 

Q.  J)o  you  know  whether  the  distiller  made  returns  on  form  14?^— A. 
I  do  not  know  anything  about  tlieir  forms. 

Q.  And  88  and  S8h  ? — A.  My  son  and  they  made  out  tlieir  papers. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  anybody  allege  that  these  forms  were  not  com- 
plied with  ;  that  proper  returfis  were  not  made.  Did  anybody  say  that 
proper  returns  were  not  made  ? — A.  I  do  not  know.  The  proper  returns 
of  the  distillery  ? 

Q.  Yes,  sir ;  did  yon  ever  hear  anybody  say  that  they  did  not  make 
proper  returns  ! — A.  1  heard  uo  complaint  about  that ;  only  about  the 
deficiency  every  month. 

Q.  How  far  was  this  from  Statesville? — A.  I  cannot  tell.  It  is  124 
miles  from  Ashville. 

Q.  Is  it  not  at  least  300  miles  from  Statesville? — A.  I  cannot  tell. 

Q.  How  far  is  it  from  Murphy  ? — A.  Thirteen  miles  east. 

Q.  How  far  is  it  from  the  public  road? — A.  About  three  miles. 

Q.  Why  did  your  sou  start  up  three  miles  from  the  public  road! — A. 
So  as  to  be  near  wood  and  water. 

Q.  Did  he  mean  to  make  a  regular  business  of  distilling? — A.  He  did 
while  he  ran  it. 

Q.  Did  he  sell  whisky  along  from  time  to  time,  while  distilliug'? — A. 
He  would  take  out  a  barrel  occasionally  and  tax-pay  it. 

Q.  How  old  was  he? — A.  He  was  over  21.     He  was  born  in  1859. 

Q.  Was  this  still  located  in  the  Indian  country,  among  the  Cherokee 
Indians? — A.  Oh,  no. 

Q.  You  are  a  Cherokee  yourself,  are  you  not? — A.  Part. 

Q.  You  claim  to  belong  to  the  tribe? — A.  I  am  so  recognized. 

Q.  And  you  state  you  and  your  son  were  under  the  impression  that 


260  COLLECTION    OP"    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

the  store-keeper,  Mr.  Howell,  wa.s  liuble  for  any  deficiency  that  would 
occur! — A.  He  notified  biin  by  the  department  letter. 

Q.  Did  you  see  the  letter? — A.  I  heard  him  read  it;  I  did  not  take 
it  in  my  hand  to  look  at  it. 

Q.  You  heard  who  read  it? — A.  Mr.  Howell,  and  Mr.  Axley  after- 
wards told  me  it  was  the  case  ;  he  said  that  all  gangers  were  liable  for 
deficiencies  in  small  distdleries. 

Q.  CTaugers  Avere  liable  for  deficiencies  in  small  di;;tilleries ;  was  that 
in  the  letter  f — A.  Mr.  Axley  said  it  was. 

Q.  What  was  in  the  letter? — A.  He  read  that  a  ganger  was  liable 
for  the  deficiency. 

Q.  Supi)ose  the  deficiency  had  occurred  by  leakage.  Was  the  ganger 
to  be  liable,  according  to  that  letter? — A.  The  deficiency  occurred  in 
the  cistern-room. 

Q.  Did  the  letter  say  he  was  liable  only  for  the  deficiency  in  the 
cistern  room  ? — A.  For  the  deficiency  was  what  the  letter  said. 

Q.  Deficiencies  occur  by  leakage  sometimes,  do  they  not? — A.  I  can- 
not tell.     The  barrels  were  very  good  in  the  cistern-room. 

Q.  By  whom  Avas  this  letter  said  to  be  written  ?— A.  I  did  not  see. 
I  do  not  know. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  by  whom  ? — A.  No. 

Q.  Then  you  mean  to  state  that  Mr.  Howell  took  a  piece  of  paper 
and  said  it  was  a  letter  and  read  it  to  you? — A.  He  said  it  was  from 
the  dei>artment — the  collector's  office — and  Mr.  Axley  said  the  same. 

Q.  Why  did  you  not  pay  that  $100  for  your  son,  and  stop  all  this 
trouble? — A.  I  did  not  intend  to  do  it,  when  it  was  occasioned  by  the 
store- keeper. 

Q.  You  were  entirely  able  to  do  it? — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  could  have 
done  it. 

Q.  Without  any  inconvenience? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  reason  why  you  did  not  do  it  was  that  you  wanted  Mr. 
Howell  to  pay  it? — A.  We  did  not  wan.t  him  there  at  the  start.  He 
was  not  a  pro})er  man.  . 

Q.  Why  not  a  proi)er  man  ? — A.  He  would  get  drunk  and  cut  up 
generally. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  report  to  the  collector's  office  that  he  got  drunk  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  and  Mr.  Axley  knew  it,  and  knew  his  character;  that  he 
was  a  drinking  man. 

Q.   Did  you  ever  report  it  to  the  collector's  office? — A.  I  did. 

Q.  That  he  got  diiink? — A.  1  reported  it  to  Mr.  Axley. 

Q.  Mr.  Axley  was  the  <lei)uty,  was  he  not? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  In  that  section  of  tlu^  country? — A.  In  May  he  went  off  and  left 
the  cistern-room  unlocked  from  Monday  until  Tuesday. 

Q.  Did  you  report  that  fact  to  Mr.  Axley  ?— A.  I  did. 

(^.  What  did'  Mr.  Axley  say  ? — A.  He  said  nothing  about  it. 

Q.  Did  he  not  make  any  rei)ly  whatever  to  you  when  you  reported 
it? — A,  He  said  hf.  would  have  him  removed  and  get  another  man, 
and  talk  to  him  about  it. 

(^.  How  long  was  Mr.  Howell  theie? — A.  He  was  there  from  Febru- 
ai-y  to  Octobci" — it  was  the  last  (►f  Sci)teml>er. 

Q.  Where  weic,  you  then? — A.  I  was  tlM're  iVom  the  time  they  com- 
menced u]>  to  tlie  tiuK^  they  sus|)ended,  and  then   I  went  \V\»st. 

Q.  Did  I  uiKlci'sl.ind  .yon  corivclly  to  say  that  Mr.  Howell  was  in  the 
hal»il  of  going  boldly  i)efor(^  your  face  and  taking  that  whisky  out 
and  using  it  to  \n',\\  his  friends  with  t — A.  1  have  seen  him  do  it  from 
the  tnne  he  first  commenced. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  261 

Q.  What  did  you  say  to  him  about  it? — A.  1  complained  to  Mr.  Ax- 
ley  about  it. 

Q.  Did  you  uot  comidain  to  Mr.  Howell  that  he  ou^ht  not  to  do  it  '^ — 
A.  I  told  liim  time  and  time  again  that  my  son  could  not  stand  such 
wastage  as  that. 

Q.  What  <lid  he  say*? — A.  He  said  there  was  not  much  wasted;  he 
only  divided  a  little  with  his  friends. 

Q.  Did  you  not  know  then,  and  do  you  not  know  now,  that  the  dis- 
tiller himself  was  violating-  the  revenue  laws  of  the  country  in  not  re- 
porting such  conduct? — A.  1  did  it  every  time  1  saw  Mr.  Axley. 

Q.  You  reported  it  every  time  to  Mr.  Axley"? — A.  Yes,  sir;  and  not 
only  that,  but  made  ai)plication  to  Mr.  Williams  to  get  a  ganger  out  of 
his  district. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  Who  was  Mr.  Williams? — A.  He  is  at  Asheville.     I  tried  to  get 
an  old  experienced  gauger — Mr.  Hildebrand,  and  had  his  promise  that 
he  would  come,  but  Mr.  Axley  never  made  the  change,  and  so  we  could 
not  get  another. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  You  said  something  about  that  warehouse  being  broken  up  by  a 
couple  of  negroes. — A.  No;  one  was  a  colored  man  and  one  was  a 
white  man. 

Q.  They  were  not  revenue  ofticers  ? — A.  No. 

Q.  Why  did  not  your  sou  go  and  mend  up  the  house,  or  you  your- 
self, when  you  found  it  was  broken  into  ? — A.  He  was  not  there  when 
it  was  done.     I  got  back  from  the  West  in  January. 

Q.  Why  did  not  your  son  have  it  mended "? — A.  It  was  in  charge  of 
Mr.  Axley.     He  took  charge  of  it. 

Q.  How  long  before  you  reported  the  breaking  into  to  Mr.  Axley? — 
A.  I  reported  it  as  soon  as  I  got  home  and  learned  of  it. 

Q.  How  long  after  the  breakage  took  i)lace  ? — A.  A  month  or  such  a 
matter. 

Q.  So  you  let  it  stand  broken  open  a  whole  season,  did  you  not  ? — A. 
Mr.  Axley  knew  it. 

Q.  How  do  you  know  Mr.  Axley  knew  it? — A.  My  son  said  he  had 
written  to  him  about  it  and  gave  him  the  information. 

Q.  What  interest  did  you  have  personally  in  this  distillery? — A.  None 
whatever,  nothing. 

Q.  How  far  do  you  live  from  there  ? — A.  About  three  miles  away. 

Q.  How  far  did  your  son  live  away  ? — A.  He  built  a  house  some  two 
hundred  yards  from  the  distillery  after  he  commenced. 

Q.  And  you  had  no  interest  in  it  at  all  yourself? — A.  None  whatever. 

The  Chairman.  I  tind  another  paper  setting  fortii  the  amount  of 
taxes;  will  you  see  if  that  is  in  Mr.  Axley's  handwriting  (handing  paper 
to  witness)  ? — A.  (Examining.)  Yes,  sir  ;  that  is  his  handwriting. 

Q.  Whom  did  you  get  this  from? — A.  I  do  not  know.  I  found  that 
in  the  papers. 

The  Chairman.  I  will  ofier  it  in  evidence.     (Reading.) 

J.  M.  Taylok  : 

Sir:  Yon  are  notified  that  on  the  21st  day  of  Feh'y,  1881,  at  distillery  warehonse  No. 
1393,  of  J.  M.  Taylor,  I  will  sell  hU  the  whiskey  on  deposit  in  said  warehouse.  Also 
224  acres  of  hnul,  No.  21,  in  7  dist.,  seized  as  thi-  property  of  J.  M.  Taylor  upon  war- 
rant of  distraint  for  the  followinji  taxes: 

Deft,  spirits,  Dec.  1879.     May  list,.     Auit.  29.99.  int.  &  penalty  to  be  ad<led. 

Deft.        '■        Feb.,  18-^0.     Anjr'st  list.     Amr.  I7..'i7,  inf.  &  penalty  to  be  added. 

Defr.  spirits,  Jan.,  188U.     May  list.     Anit.  8.22.  int.  &  ijeiialty  to  be  added. 


262  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE     IN 

'■'>0  gall,  p'k'g.     June  list.     Auit.  "27.00,  iut.  &  i»eiial<y  to  he  added. 

Deft,  spirits,  Mar.  1880.     S'pt  list.     Amt.  '2H.88,  ini.  '&,  penalty  to  he  added. 

•«         "       Apr.  Oct.    "  "      80..55,    "     "        '•     "  " 

Will  be  sold  at  the  time  aud  place  specified  xinless  paid  by  that  time — Jan.  14,  l^iSl. 

F.  P.  AXLEY, 
Deputii  Coll.  10  Vis.,  Gth  Dhl.  N.  C. 

W.  J.  CoiTE  recalled  and  examination  resumed. 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  In  regard  to  the  matter  just  gone  into  bytliis  witness,  you 
have  heard  the  statement  of  Mr.  Taylor  in  regard  to  this  matter.  Will 
you  please  tell  what  you  know  about  it. — Answer.  I  have  heard  his 
statement,  and  it  was  entirely  an  internal  revenue  business  transaction — 
the  whole  thing.  The  assessments  were  made  by  the  Commissioner  of 
Internal  Eevenue  from  reports  by  Mr.  Taylor  himself,  or  the  distiller  to 
the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Eevenue  ;  and  they  were  also  based  upon 
reports  made  by  the  store-keeper  and  ganger  of  the  material  used  and 
the  amount  of  whisky  produced.  Those  assessments  were  made  in  the 
Commissioner's  office  and  were  sent  down  to  Dr.  Mott  to  be  collected, 
and  he  collected  them.  Payment  was  refused,  and  he  had  to  have  re- 
course to  distraint  through  his  deputy,  Mr.  Axley.  Mr.  Taylor  has 
made  a  statement  that  he  could  not  find  a  record  of  the  seizure.  If  he 
will  go  to  the  as.sessment  division  in  the  department  he  will  find  there 
a  record  of  the  whole  transaction. 

Q.  And  returns  of  the  sales  and  all? — A.  Yes,  sir;  returns  of  the 
assessments  paid  by  the  proceeds  of  the  sales. 

Q.  What  office  did  you  say  that  was;  the  assessment  office  ? — A.  In 
the  assessment  division,  on  the  lists  23  A  and  B.  The  lists  are  made 
by  the  Commissioner  and  records  made  there  of  the  ])ayment  of  all  these 
taxes,  and  everything  will  be  found  there.  As  to  that  subsequent  sale 
of  .spirits  under  the  act  of  March,  1879,  the  tax  was  demanded  for  the 
original  amount  placed  in  the  warehouse,  by  reason  of  excessive  leak- 
age. It  was  all  done  a(;cording  to  law.  Payment  was  refused,  the 
spirits  were  sold,  the  taxes  paid,  and  returns  made  to  the  same  division 
on  the  assessment  list.  It  will  all  be  found  there,  I  thiidv.  As  to  Mr. 
Ta\  lor's  statenu^nt  in  regard  to  the  store-keeper,  I  have  no  knowledge 
of  any  information  being  received  from  Mr.  Axley  as  to  Mr.  Howell — 
hi.s  incapacity,  drunkenness,  or  anything  of  that  sort,  but  I  do  know 
when  J)r.  Mott  did  receive  such  a  statement  and  report  from  Mr.  Axley. 
He  relieved  Mr.  Howell  and  put  Mr.  Moss  in  charge. 

Q,  Do  you  know  Mr.  Axley  personally"? — A.  I  do,  sir.  I  have  seen 
him  three  times  in  my  life.  He  lives  three  or  four  hundred  miles  from 
Statesville. 

Q.  It  is  away  out  on  these  western  mountains"? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  he  a  good  oflicer  ? — A.  He  is  a  very  elticient  officer.  He  has  a 
v»'ry  good  knowleclge  of  tlie  revenue  law  and  its  details,  but  v\e  have 
hail  s(niie('om])laints  to  make  in  the  oflice  in  respect  to  liis  dilatoriness 
III  (■nfoiciiig  these  colh'ct ions.  He  is  not  arbitrary.  He  gets  along 
ensily,  anil  (Jollcxitor  Mott  lias  found  fault  with  him  for  being  too  easy 
with  llicm,  and  at  the  same  time  desiring  to  jierlbnn  his  duty  i)rop- 
ril\. 

().  Is  hean  li(»nest,  iipriglit  man  ? — A.  1  liave  no  reason  to  doubt  his 
honesty  or  iipiiglit iiess.  I  lliink  lie  is  well  esteemed  in  the  community 
Iroiii  wliicli  he  was  appointed. 

().  ^ Oil  s;il(l  this  was  iin  internal  revenin^  transaction.  Just  now. 
What  do  \i»ii  mean  \>y  that  .' — A.  'I'iial  there  was  no  personality  about 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  263 

it,  nothing:  personal  in  it.  It  was  an  internal  revenue  business  trans- 
acted under  the  laws  ami  regulations  of  the  [nternal  llevenue  Bu- 
reau. 

Q.  You  mean  to  say  u])on  the  reports  made  on  form  14  by  the  dis- 
tillers themselves f — A.  The  distillers  themsehes. 

Q.  To  the  bnreauin  Washington  and  theassessment  was  made  here? 
— A.  Yes,  sir;  at  Washington. 

Q.  Dr.  Mott  had  nothing-  to  do  with  that  ! — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  It  was  sent  down  to  Dr.  Mott  to  collect,  just  as  a  slieriff  collects 
a  debt,  and  he  had  nothing-  to  do  but  to  obey  that  order  ? — A.  To  make 
the  collection,  that  is  all. 

Q.  From  the  relation  Mr.  Taylor  has  given  here,  was  that  the  usual 
i'ourse  pursued  in  making-  collections? — A.  Except  in  one  sense,  that  a 
greater  delay  was  made  than  necessary  by  Mr.  Axley,  and  that  Dr.  Mott 
commented  upon  his  conduct  that  he  delayed  it  too  long,  three  or  four 
months'  assessments  standing  on  what  we  call  the  assessment  list  and 
<;liarg-ed  against  Dr.  Mott,  because  not  collected.  1  remember  onetime 
he  was  quite  indignant  at  Mr.  Axley  because  he  had  not  made  collec- 
tions before. 

Q.  Y^ou  did  not  mean  in  this  particular  case? — A.  Not  in  this  par- 
ticular case,  but  in  others. 

Q.  But  yon  say  in  this  particular  case  there  was  remissness  on  the 
part  of  Mr.  Axley  ? — A.  Not  remissness ;  but  simply  delay  in  order  not 
to  ])ress  the  distiller  and  to  drive  him  to  the  sale  of  his  property  ar- 
bitrarily. He  was  given  every  opportunity  to  ex[)lain  or  i)ut  in  forms 
for  the  abatement  of  the  taxes,  and  my  belief  is  he  refused  even  to  do 
that. 

Q.  You  say  these  complaints  Mr.  Taylor  speaks  of,  relating  to  Mr. 
Howell,  did  not  reach  the  office  at  Statesville! — A.  I  knew  nothing  of 
it.  I  never  heard  of  it  until  Dr.  Mott  removed  Mr.  Howell  and  put  Mr. 
Moss  in  his  place.  It  may  have  been  reported  to  Mr.  Axley,  but  Mr. 
Axley  did  not  re])ort  that  to  his  superior  ofiQcer,  Dr.  Mott,  that  I  know  of. 

Q.  How  long  has  Mr.  Howell  been  a  ganger  f — A.  My  impression  is 
that  he  was  a  store- keei)er  or  ganger  in  the  old  seventh  district  before 
consolidation ;  in  other  words,  he  was  an  old  experienced  hand  at  the 
business. 

Q.  Under  Mr,  Eollins  in  the  seventh  district  ? — A.  I  think  so, 

Q.  How  long  was  he  in  office  under  Dr,  ]Mott  f — A.  I  think  he  was 
appointed  soon  after  the  consolidation,  if  not  immedmtely  upon  it, 

Q.  When  did  the  consolidation  take  idace  ? — A.  I  think  in  1879;  I 
may  be  wrong  as  to  the  year, 

Q,  Was  Mr,  Howell  assigned  to  other  distilleries'? — A,  I  cannot  tell 
without  reference  to  the  record  ;  but  I  think  he  had  been, 

Q.  Did  you  ever  hear  any  complaint  of  him  before"? — A.  No,  sir. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Who  is  the  chief  of  the  assessment  department  f — A.  C.  A.  Bates. 

Q.  You  have  never  examined  for  these  papers  you  speak  of,  in  the 
departments,  have  you? — A.  No,  sir;  I  simply  know  the  usual  course 
they  go  through. 

Q.  Y^ou  swear  very  confidently  that  they  are  all  there  ? — A.  As  nearly 
as  I  can  swear  to  anything  without  having  seen  them;  that  it  is  all 
right,  that  in  the  usual  course  they  are  there. 

Q,  You  say  this  whole  transaction  was  an  internal  revenue  transac- 
tion aiul  the  usual  course  was  pursued  ? — A.  The  regular  course  under 
the  law  and  regulations  of  the  act  of  March,  1879, 


264  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Is  it  according  to  the  usual  course  of  the  revenue  department  for 
a  store-keeper  to  take  liquor  at  liis  will  and  i)leasure  out  of  the  cistern- 
room  to  treat  bis  friends  with  and  carry  it  oft'  as  he  pleases?— A.  No^ 
sir,  it  is  not;  and  when  known  they  are  dismissed. 

Q.  Is  it  the  usual  course  when  complaints  have  been  made  to  the 
deputy  collector,  for  him  to  keep  the  reports  to  himself,  and  not  for- 
ward them  f — A.  He  should  report  them  to  his  superior  oflicer. 

Q.  Immediately  ? — A.  Unless  he  has  some  reason  unknown  to  the 
office  for  keeping-  it  to  himself. 

Q.  You  say  Mr.  Axley's  character  is  good? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  seen  him? — A.  Yes,  sir;  twice  or  three  times  in 
my  life. 

Q.  Where!— A.  In  Statesville. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  as  to  what  his  neighbors  say  about  him  ? — 
A.  I  simply  know  that  when  appointed  he  received  the  indorsement* 
of  a  great  many  of  his  neighbors,  as  to  being  a  man  of  integrity  and 
standing. 

Q,  He  came  u})  with  a,  petition  ;  that  is  all  you  know  about  his  char- 
acter, signed  by  some  of  his  neighbors"? — A.  That  ig  about  all;  he  re- 
ceived the  api)ointment  in  that  form  probably. 

Q.  Do  you  know  why  Mr.  Howell's  pay  was  kept  back  f — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Why  ? — A.  His  April  pay  was  kept  back  on  a  report  made  by 
Mr.  Axley,  which  led  to  the  removal  of  Mr.  Howell,  and  the  substitu- 
tion of  Mr.  Moss ;  ivccompanying  that  report  of  Mr.  Howell  it  said  he 
was  to  a  certain  extent  responsible  for  the  loss  of  some  of  the  liquor» 
or  at  least  the  assessment  that  was  nmde,  and  pursuing  a  precedent 
that  had  been  made  by  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Eevenue  in  similar 
cases,  his  pay  was  delayed  for  an  explanation  from  him.  The  case  is 
now  before  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Eevenue,  I  think. 

Q.  You  say  it  was  ascertained  that  to  some  extent  he  was  responsible  ? 
— A.  isot  ascertained,  but  rei^orted. 

Q.  Who  reported  it  '! — A.  Mr.  Axley. 

Q.  Is  it  usual,  when  a  deputy  collector  reports  that  the  store-keeper 
has  been  in  fault,  and  wasted  the  liquor,  to  sell  the  man  out,  root  and 
branch,  notwithstanding;  is  that  internal  revenue  business? — A.  It  is 
internal  revenue  business,  so  far  as  the  law  is  concerned  and  the  fulfill- 
ment of  the  re(]uirements  of  the  regulations.  He  was  given  an  oppor- 
tunity to  explain,  and  no  ex])laiiation  was  made. 

Q.  Who  was  given  the  opportunitv  to  explain? — A.  Mr.  Taylor  and 
Mr.  Howell. 

i).  JJut  Mr.  Taylor  liad  nothing  to  explain.  Mr.  HomcII  had.  Mr. 
Taylor  was  making  liie  comi)laint,  and  Mr.  Howell  was  the  man  to  make 
the  ex])laiiation,  but,  instead  of  your  waiting  ft)r  that,  you  sold  him  out, 
and  you  sa>'  that  is  the  regular  course  of  business  in  tin;  Internal  Rev- 
enue Department? — xV.  In  that  case  it  was,  for  the  simi)le  reason  that 
tin*,  depart  iiient  had  made  a  demand  on  him  for  fully  a  year  for  the  pay- 
ment of  the  taxes,  and,  as  a  last  resort,  lu^  made  a  comi>laint,  as  we  con- 
sidered it,  to  delay  the  paynuMit,  on  the  store-keepei-. 

(}.  I  Jut  it  seems^  according  to  INIr.  Taylor's  testimony,  that  he  com- 
]»laiiied  at  th(^  very  start  tliat  there  was  a.  (h'tn-iency  to  Mr.  Axley? — 
A.  Tills  is  his  teslimon.N.  Itiit  tliere  is  no  evidence  of  it  except  that. 

(}.  That  is  better  tlian  w  iicic  the'ici  is  no  evidence.  You  liave  no  evi- 
dence to  (he  eonti'ai'y  ? — A.   N(>,  sir. 

(,).  Is  it  the  usual  an«l  regular  couise  (»!'  business  t'oi' the  internal 
b'e\enue  Department  to  seize  ;i  mail's  war«'house,  take  charge  of  his^ 
li(|iioi.  ;iiid  hohl  him  i-es|)oii.sii»le  Ibi-  the  waste  that  occurs  alter  that? — 
A.    i'"<ii'  I  lie  w  a  si  age  of  t  lie  li<|iioi-  .' 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OP    NORTH    CAROLINA.  265 

Q.  Yes. — A.  No,  sir;  I  doubt  whether  any  wastage  has  occurred. 
I  think  that  liquor  was  sohl  according-  to  law,  and  the  proceeds  turned 
in  tV»r  the  ]>ayiiient  of  the  taxes  on  the  li^iuor. 

Q.  Did  you  not  hear  read  that  Mr.  Axley  reqxnred  Mr.  Taylor,  in 
March,  1881 — the  liqnor  was  seized  in  January  i)receding — to  come  for- 
ward and  tax  pay  and  remove  certain  i)ackages,  or  he  wonld  be  held 
responsible  for  wastage? — A.  That  was  anotiier  case  entirely.  The  first 
liquor  was  sei/.ed  for  the  assessment  for  deticiency.  The  second  notice,, 
in  March,  i^robably,  was  for  excessive  leakage,  and  the  assessment  was 
nmde  at  different  times,  under  different  circumstances,  under  the  law  of 
March,  1879 — a  uew  law 

Q.  I  do  not  care  what  law  it  was  under. — A.  But  it  was  two  differ- 
ent cases. 

Q.  I  do  not  care  how  many  cases.  There  might  be  one  hundred.  If 
the  government  seized  the  liquor,  and  the  man  had  no  right  or  au- 
thority to  enter  his  own  warehouse,  does  the  government  hold  him  re- 
sponsible for  leakage  or  wastage  ? — A.  The  warehouse  had  not  been 
seized  at  that  time. 

Q.  Then  you  contradict  the  notice.  They  were  all  in  the  same  ware- 
house. 

Mr.  Taylor.  And  all  the  same  liquor. 

The  Chairman.  (Handing  paper  to  witness  and  reading:)  "Janu- 
ary 14,  1881 ;  seized  as  the  property  of  J.  M.  Taylor,  upon  warrant  of 
distraint  for  the  following  taxes."  Now,  the  other  notice  about  the 
wastage  was  March  11,  1881,  two  and  a  half  months  afterwards.  The 
former  is  a  notice  of  the  seizure  of  the  liquor  on  January  14, 1881,  and 
here  on  March  11,  1881,  in  the  latter  notice  it  says  (Quoting):  "By 
direction  of  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  sixth  district,  you  are  required,  by  the 
first  day  of  April,  1881,  to  withdraw  from  your  warehouse,  on  account 
of  excessive  wastage,  casks  Nos.  5,  8,  9,  10,"  &c. — A.  That  is  exactly 
what  I  say  this  was. 

Q,  But  it  was  all  seized,  was  it  uof? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Does  not  that  notice  say  so! — A.  Only  a  certain  portion. 

Q.  (Quoting:) 

Yon  are  luitified  that,  on  the  2lHt  day  of  Feluuary,  188L  at  distillery  warehouse,  No- 
139:3,  of  J.  M.  Taylor,  I  will  sell  all  the  whisky  on  deposit  in  said  ware-  lionse ;  also  224 
acres  of  land.  No.  2\,  iu  7'h  district,  seized  as  the  property  of  J.M.  Taylor,  upon 
warrant  of  distraint  for  the  following  taxes. 

A.  It  was  not  seized. 

Q.  If  that  was  all  the  whisky  deposited  in  said  warehouse,  what  was 
this  notice  of  March  11  for  ? — A.  That  was  for  the  balance  of  the  pack- 
ages specified  there  that  had  leaked  out ;  and  for  that  an  amount  was 
allowed  by  the  government  for  leakage  in  a  certain  space  of  time. 
There  is  a  table  which  allows  a  certain  leakage,  but  this  was  what  was 
called  excessive  leakage,  and  when  excessive  leakage  occurs  the  tax  is 
demanded.     This  other  notice  refers  to  the  assessment  for  deficiency. 

Q.  It  says  that  all  the  liquor  was  seized.  You  mean  to  say  that  was 
the  balance  ? — A.  It  was  not  all  seized.  This  notice  of  January  14  is 
simply  a  notice  of  sale  ;  that  it  would  be  sold  for  the  taxes  not  paid. 

Q.  If  it  all  was  to  be  sold,  therefore  it  was  all  seized.  Now,  Mr.  Tay- 
lor could  not  enter  that  warehouse  after  the  14th  day  of  January  ? — A. 
Satisfaction  was  made  for  the  amount  by  the  sale  in  that  first  notice, 
probably,  for  these  assessments  that  were  made.  This  licpior  iu  the 
notice  of  March  11  was  remaining  in  the  warehouse  after  this  sale  was 
made. 

Q.  How  do  you  know  that? — A.  By  the   terms  of  the  notice,  "  Oii 


266  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    EEVENUE    IN 

account  of  excessive  leakage,"  of  what  was  not  sold  at  that  time.  I 
know  some  sale  was  made,  and  these  assessments  satisfied.  These  pack- 
ages were  found  to  contain  less  whisl^y  than  was  put  in  originally.  In 
other  words,  excessive  leakage  had  occurred,  after  the  sale  and  the 
residue  of  the  taxes  were  demanded  on  it. 

Q.  After  the  liquor  was  two  and  a  half  mouths,  or  nearly  so,  in  pos- 
session of  the  government  officer,  assessment  is  required  for  wastage 
before  he  got  hold  of  it'? — A.  This  thing  had  been  satisfied  at  the  time, 
the  debt  satisfied,  leaving  this  amount  remaining  in  the  warehouse. 

Q.  This  first  advertisement  which  I  introduced  shows  that  the  whisky 
was  not  sold  at  that  time.     (Reading  :) 

INTERNAL    REVENUE    SALE    POSTPONED. 

I  will  sell  for  cash  to  the  highest  bidder,  at  distillery  warehouse,  No.  l/?9:i,  of  J.  M. 
Ta.vlor,  on  the  "Jlst  day  of  February,  1881,  all  the  whisky  ou  deposit  iu  said  warehouse, 
subject  t"  the  taxes  due  the  governuient. 

Aisi',  '^cl  acres  of  laud,  on  same  day,  at  residence  of  H.  A.  Moss,  iu  Valleytowu  town- 
ship, known  as  tract  No.  21,  in  7th  district,  seized  as  the  projjerty  of  J.  M.  Taylor,  by 
virtue  of  a  warrant  of  distraint  in  my  hand  against  said  Taylor  for  internal  revenue 
taxes,  interest,  *&,  penalty.     This  14th  day  of  Feb'v,  1881, 

-     F.  P.  AXLEY, 
DqmUj  CoJVr,  6th  Dist.  N.  C. 

So  yoti  see  the  sale  was  postponed  and  the  whisky  seized  there  was 
not  sold  at  that  time.  Now,  how  do  you  make  this  mail  responsible 
for  the  wastage,  &c.,  when  it  was  in  tlie  hands  of  the  government? — A. 
It  is  a  question  whether  it  was  in  the  hands  of  the  government. 

Q.  Was  it  not  in  the  hands  of  the  government  when  an  officer  had 
seized  and  closed  it  up  and  had  taken  the  key  1 — A.  I  do  not  think 
there  was  any  seizure,  but  a  simple  notice  of  sale. 

Q.  The  officer  says  lie  did  seize  it. — A.  I  do  not  think  it  was  taken 
to  Asheville.  It  was  in  December  last.  The  case  is  simply  one  of 
refusal  on  the  i>art  of  tlte  distiller  to  pay  the  just  dues  which  the  gov- 
ernment ]iad  against  him,  and  it  was  an  endeavor  on  the  ])art  of  the 
deputy  collector,  Mr.  Axley,  to  collect  those  amounts,  and  it  was  his 
mode  of  procedure  by  putting  in  different  notices.  Of  course,  I  cannot 
explain  it,  but  that  is  the  whole  sum  and  substance  of  it.  It  was 
purely  an  internal  revenue  transaction  of  that  nature. 

Q.  Do  you  think  there  were  not  some  grounds  for  believing  that 
tliese  deficiencies  were  caused  by  Mr.  Howell's  conduct  ?—iV.  Only 
upon  the  re])ort  of  Mr.  Axley. 

Q.  Was  that  ever  investigated '? — A.  Yes,  sir;  it  has  been. 

Q.  Where  is  tlie  report  of  that  investigation  ? — A.  I  do  not  know 
■where  it  is. 

Q.  Have  you  not  seen  it? — A.  No,  sir;  1  know  that  the  Commissioner 
of  Internal  ifcxcnuc  iiad  the  matter  reported  to  him;  that  there  were 
grounds  for  l»elieving  that,  and  1m'  has  ordered  the  check  to  be  retained — 
that  .\]»ril  cheek,  and  it  has  never  been  solved  oi'  determined  yet. 

Q.  \Vlietlier  h(^  was  to  be  blamed  for  it  or  not"? — A.  No,  sir;  and  the 
che«!k  still  remains  in  the  ollitu'  of  the  internal   reveniu»  at  Statesville. 

Q.    lie  has  ne\er  be(Mi  i)aid  ? — A.   No. 

Q.  Do  you  know  why  that  matter  lias  nin'er  be(in  determined  ? — A. 
1  «lo  not.     I  know  llnr  investigation  has  been  entered  upon. 

Q.  Do  you  not  think  it  ought  to  be;  determiiuMl,  and  if  Mr.  Taylor 
-was  not  to  he  hlameil,  but  llow«'ll  was,  that  Justice  should  be  done  in  the 
])remises  ? — A.  Y<?s,  sir;  and  my  im|)ression  is  that  it  has  been  investi- 
gate<l  se\<-ral  limes,  hut   n(t  deteiiniiiation  e,v<'r  arrived  at;  and,  by  the 


THE    .SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  267 

way,  we  liave  sent  oxer  tlicie  witliiii   tlio  last  two  inontlis  an  officer  to 
jHAestigate  that  identical  case,  Mr.  Sullivan,  a  depnty. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Sui)i)ose  it  turned  out  iipt)!!  investij^ation  by  the  Comniissioner  of 
Internal  Kevenne  that  ^fr.  IFoMell  was  to  blame  for  the  deficiency  here, 
would  you  then  pay  Howell  his  salary  at  all  '! — A.  In  siiiiiiar  cases  they 
]ia\'e  withheld  the  salary  of  the  store-keepers  and  onlered  it  to  be  a])- 
]»lied  for  the  payment  of  assessments  aj^ainst  a  distiller. 

Q.  Was  that  not  the  remed\  of  Mr.  Taylor  to  i)ay  the  taxes,  so  as  to 
relieve  his  li«pu>r,  and  stills,  and  so  on,  and  await  the  results  of  an  in- 
vestigation as  to  Mr.  Howell  f — A.  His  remedy,  in  the  first  i)lace,  was  to 
])ut  in  what  we  call  a  claim  for  the  abateuient  of  taxes,  and,  as  1  un- 
<lerstand,  it  was  never  done.  Then,  if  the  Commissioner  had  reason  to 
believe  that  he  was  not  responsible  for  the  deficiency,  he  would  have 
relieved  him  of  it. 

Q.  He  ought,  then,  to  have  i)aid  the  tax  an<l  ai)plied  for  relief? — A. 
JH'irst  ap])lied  for  an  abatement  of  tlie  taxes,  and  then,  if  not  abated, 
bis  next  move  would  have  been  to  have  paid  the  taxes  and  applied  for 
a  refunding  of  them. 

Q.  The  law  provides  a  remedy  in  such  cases  ? — A.  The  law  is  very 
ex }» licit  on  that  point. 

Q.  It  provides  a  reniedj^  for  just  such  (;ases  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Mr.  Taylor  did  not  avail  himself  of  that  remedy  ? — A.  1  have 
never  known  of  his  having  done  so. 

Q.  He  has  rather  stood  out  and  let  this  thing  go  on  before  his  eyes  *? 
— A.  That  is  about  the  idea  of  it. 

Q.  Something  was  said  about  a  noti(;e  of  withdrawing  on  account  of 
excessive  leakage.  When  excessive  leakage  occurs  in  a  warehouse, 
does  not  the  law  authorize  the  collector  to  give  notice  to  the  distiller, 
and  compel  hiui  to  withdraw  and  pav  taxes  ? — A.  That  is  the  law  of 
March  1<S,  1879. 

Q.  This  was  not  a  case  of  seizure  at  all  ? — A.  Simply  of  distraint  for 
taxes,  not  seizure. 

Q.  It  is  not  a  seizure  when  the  liquor  remains  still  in  the  warehouse? 
— A.  Unless  there  is  some  illegal  act  of  the  distiller  in  connection 
with  the  liquor,  it  is  not  called  a  seizure,  but  simply  a  distraint  for  the 
taxes  upon  an  assessment. 

Q.  That  is  what  .you  mean  when  you  said  the  liquDr  was  not  seized. 
The  notice  the  chairman  read  to  you  was  only  that  he  should  withdraw 
under  the  act  of  1879  f — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Because  it  was  leaking  ? — Because  it  had  leaked  excessively. 

Q.  And  that  was  a  legal  notice "? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Had  it  no  application  to  any  of  the  packages  that  had  not  leaked"? 
— A.  No,  sir :  only  to  those  that  leaked  excessively,  and  they  were 
designated. 

Q.  In  the  notice  he  read! — A.  In  the  notice. 

Q.  This  matter  of  Mr.  Howell  is  still  pending  bet()re  the  Commis- 
sioner of  Internal  Revenue  f — A.  As  to  his  liability,  yes,  vsir  ;  for  this 
matter. 

Q.  And  in  the  last  few  months  you  have  sent  a  deputy  down  there  to 
look  into  it  ? — A.  The  one  who  is  now  investigating,  that  I  spoke  of. 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  We  sent  Mr.  Sullivan  as  a  special  agent  to  investi- 
gate that  case,  and  one  other  that  I  forget,  of  a  .similar  nature. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  You  still  say  it  was  not  a  seizure? — A.  Simply  a  distraint  for 


268  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

taxes.  I  make  a  distinction  between  a  seizure  for  fraud  and  a  distraint 
for  taxes. 

Q.  Notwithstanding  the  deputy  says  lie  had  seized  the  jjroperty  ? — 
A.  I  cannot  exphiin  his  use  of  that  word.  I  do  not  think  it  was  prop- 
erly used  in  that  connection. 

Q.  Was  it  not  Mr.  Axley's  pkice  to  protect  tlie  distiHcr  as  well  as 
the  government? — A.  Certainly;  and  I  think  he  did  it  by  delaying 
the  collection  of  this  assessment. 

Q.  Was  it  not  Mr.  Axley's  duty  to  tell  Mr.  Taylor,  after  Howell  was 
accused,  to  put  in  an  abatement  claim  so  that  the  taxes  would  be  re- 
moved ? — A.  I  think  he  did  do  it. 

Q.  What  makes  you  think  so? — A.  If  he  did  his  duty  in  this  respect. 
He  has  put  in  abatement  claims  in  other  cases  in  his  own  division. 

Q.  Because  it  was  Mr.  Axley's  duty  to  do  so,  and  you  have  known 
him  to  do  that  in  other  cases,  does  that  enable  you  to  swear  that  he 
did  it  in  this  case  ? — A.  No,  sir  ;  he  did  not. 

Q.  You  said  you  thought  he  did  ? — A.  I  said  he  presented  the  case 
to  put  in  an  abatement  claim,  and  my  impression  is  it  was  refused  by 
the  distiller.     That  was  our  impression  at  the  office. 

Q.  Though  you  have  no  ground  for  that  except  the  consideration  of 
what  the  deputy  collector  ought  to  have  done? — A.  The  usual  course 
in  such  cases  ;  yes,  sir. 

J.  Taylor  recalled,  and  cross-examination  resumed. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  Did  Dr.  Mott  tell  you  the  proper  course  -for  your  son  to 
pursue,  to  put  in  an  abatement  claim  or  a  refunding  claim  ? — Answer. 
Not  a  word  of  that  have  I  heard  from  him. 

Q.  Did  not  you  and  the  doctor  have  a  talk  in  Washington  about  it? 
— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Wliat  did  he  advise  you  to  do  ? — A.  1  wished  to  have  a  settlement^ 
but  I  never  heard  anything  of  an  abatement  froui  him. 

Q.  What  did  he  advise  you  to  do? — A.  He  advised  me  that  the  re- 
port would  soon  (!Ouie  up  for  the  sale  of  the  whisky.  I  wanted  to  know 
how  much  was  seized,  sold,  and  accounted  for,  and  I  never  heard  of 
any  course  of  abatement. 

Q.  Did  not  Mr.  Axley  tell  your  son  to  i)ut  in  an  abatement  claim  or 
pay  the  taxes  ? — A.  No,  sir;  I  never  heard  of  such  a  course. 

Q.  That  the  law  of  1870  I'cquired  him  to  jnit  in  an  abatemeut  elaim 
under  these  cin-umstances  ? — A.  I  never  heard  of  it. 

Q.  Did  he  not  tell  yon  when  he  failed  to  do  that  to  put  in  a  claim  of 
refunding,  and  that  would  remedy  the  matter — to  pay  the  taxes  and 
])ut  in  a  claim  for  refunding  ? — A.  No ;  all  he  insisted  u])on  was  the  taxes, 
and  my  son  resisted  be(;ause  the  defi('i<Micy  was  not  on  his  account. 

Q.  Why  does  not  yohr  son  put  in  a  relunding  claim  now  under  tin' law? 
It  is  not  too  late  yet. — A.  We,  have  asked  lor  the  whisky  account,  and 
we  cannot  get  any  a(!(;ount — how  much  was  sold,  how  much  was  seized. 
We  ha\'c  the  ganger's  account  ol"  1,150  gallons,  but  no  account  for  the 
other  three  sales. 

Q.    Do  you   know  how   mueii  yon  had  ? — A.   N(». 

(.}.  Von  do  not  know  how  mueli  yon  had? — A.  No;  they  kept  draw- 
ing it  (III  (VoMi  week  to  week.  ^IMiey  woidd  get  out  a.  bari'el  or  some- 
times a  hundred  giillons  at  a  tinu'.     1  do  not  know  how  much  renniined. 

Q.  Why  do  von  not  go  t,o  the  (U^partnient  and  get  arei)ort? — A.  I 
linve  been    lotlic    (lcp;iitnient  twice.     They  have    nothing  of  the  kind  ; 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  269 

tliey  say  that  it  has  not  beeu  reported  from  Dr.  Mott's  oflBce.  I  could 
not  find  out  last  Friday.  I  was  instructed  by  Mr,  Cooper  that  if  I  could 
not  ^ct  any  statement  at  all,  to  lay  it  before  the  Vance  committee. 

Q.  Did  yon  know  before  tliat  Mr.  Kates  had  charge  of  it? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  when  1  first  went  to  Mr.  Eanm  he  sent  me  to  Mr.  Bates,  some 
months  ago.  Mott  first  named  it  to  me,  and  1  went  to  Mr.  liogers  and 
could  not  find  out  how  much  whisky  was  seized  nor  the  sales  made. 

Q.  That  was  last  winter? — A.  Some  two  nu)nths  ago. 

Q.  Did  Dr.  Mott  seem  to  take  an  interest  and  try  to  help  you  about 
the  matter? — A.  He  said  as  soon  as  the  re])ort  from  Mr.  Axley  came  it 
won  hi  be  at  his  office,  and  he  promised  to  have  it  forwarded.  Mr. 
<Jooper  said  he  would  give  an  investigation  into  the  matter,  but  lecom- 
mended  that  I  put  it  before  this  committee  if  I  did  not  get  satisfaction 
through  the  department.  He  wanted  the  brush  cleaned  out  before  he 
went  in. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  When  did  you  see  Dr.  Mott  on  this  subject  in  this  city? — A. 
Some  time  last  winter. 

Q.  The  whisky  had  all  been  sold  then  1 — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  thing  was  all  over? — Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  did  go  to  Mr.  Bates? — A.  I  went  to  Mr.  Raum  and  he  sent 
nie  to  Mr.  Bates. 

Q.  Mr.  Bates  looked,  or  pretended  to  look, into  it? — A.  Tliej^  looked 
over  the  books,  but  could  not  find  the  report  of  the  sales,  or  the  amount 
of  the  whisky  seized,  or  what  it  was  seized  for. 

Committee  adjourned  until  Wednesday,  July  12,  at  10  o'clock  a.  m. 


Washington,  D.  C,  July  32,  1882. 

The  committee  met  at  10  a.  m. 

The  following  witnesses  were  called  in  behalf  of  Dr.  Mott: 

J.  B.  Lanier  sworn  and  examined. 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  Where  do  you  reside? — Answer.  I  reside  in  Salisbury,  N.  C. 

Q.  What  is  your  age? — A.  Forty-two. 

Q.  What  occupation  are  you  in  now  ? — A.  A  tobacco  manufacturer 
and  distiller. 

Q.  Where  is  your  distillery  situated? — A.  About  two  miles  from  Salis- 
bury. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  a  distiller? — A.  I  have  been  distilling 
continuously,  wtih  the  exception  of  x^ei'haps  a  few  months,  for  the  last 
ten  years.  I  was  distilling  before  that  prettj^  much  ever  since  the 
surrender,  with  the  exce])tion  of  two  or  three  years. 

Q.  I  will  call  your  attenticm  to  the  time  when  Mr.  Brunerw^as  a  store- 
keeper at  your  distillery. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  nnder>stood  Mr.  Bruner  to  state  that  you  gave  your  distiller  an 
order  to  have  more  mash  ))ut  in  than  you  were  authorized  by  law  to  do, 
and  that  he  had  to  interfere  with  it. — A.  I  would  like  very  much,  if  I 
could,  to  hear  what  are  the  exact  words  of  Mr.  Bruner.  I  can  just  say 
that  1  gave  no  such  order. 

Q.  Did  you  issue  an  order  to  have  more  masb  put  in  than  you  were 


270  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

authorized  by  law  to  do? — A.  ]S'o,  sir;  1  am  certain  I  did  not  do  any 
such  thing'  as  that. 

Q.  Did  you  make  any  proposition  to  Mr.Bruner  to  aUow  you — to  wink 
at  your  acting-  in  an  illegal  way  at  that  distillery  ? — A.  1  have  never 
had  but  two  conversations  with  Mr.  Bruiier  the  whole  time  he  was  at 
my  distillery.  I  am  scarcely  ever  at  the  distillery.  I  suppose  I  do  not 
average  going  there  more  than  once  a  month  ;  and  I  do  not  think  there 
were  any  words  ever  passed  between  us  but  once  or  twice. 

Q.  Answer  the  question  as  to  those  two  conversations. — A.  Do  you 
want  to  know  the  conversations? 

Q.  Certainly. —  A.  Mr.  Bruuer  was  in  the  habit — helived  at  Salisbury, 
but  the  distillery  was  about  two  miles  from  town,  perhaps  a  little  more — 
in  the  habit  of  going  down  there  very  late  in  the  morning,  0  o'clock, 
perhaps  later,  uever  before  8,  and  would  leave  from  1  to  2  and  3  o'clock. 
I  never  knew  of  him  being  there  after  3  o'clock.  I  showed  him  a  copy 
of  the  regulations;  that  it  was  against  the  law  for  me  to  run  with- 
out a  storekeeper;  that  he  must  come  earlier  and  stay  till  the  dis- 
tillery quit  operations.  A  short  time  atter  that  he  came  to  me  on 
the  street — I  was  in  conversation  with  a  friend — and  he  told  me  he 
was  going  to  Statesville  in  the  morning,  and  would  try  to  get  I>r. 
Mott  to  transfer  him  to  another  distillery  ;  one  that  was  ftot  in  operation, 
but  had  a  sufficient  quantity  of  whisky  in  the  warehouse  to  retain  a 
storekeeper.  I  told  him  that  would  suit  me  very  well.  I  did  not  like 
him  nohow.  In  fact,  that  is  the  only  conversation  that  I  ever  recollect 
taking  place  between  us.  He  might  have  said  "Good  morning,''  or 
something  like  that. 

Q.  You  never  made  any  proposition  to  him  to  wink  at  your  operating- 
your  still  in  any  unlawful  way  ? — A.  'No,  sir. 

Q.  Why  did  you  not  like  Bruuer '? — A.  I  cannot  say  that  I  did  really 
dislike  the  man.  1  did  not  like  his  style.  Though  I  never  showed  any 
disposition  to  get  him  away  or  have  a  change  made  at  all.  It  was  all 
his  own  work. 

Q.  What  was  there  about  his  style  as  a  ganger  and  storekeeper  that 
you  disliked  ? — A.  I  did  not  think  he  was  much  of  an  officer. 

Q.  One  thing  was  that  he  did  not  go  out  soon  enough  in  the  morniDg, 
and  left  early  in  the  evening  ? — A.  I  could  remedy  that  very  well.  t 
cannot  say  that  I  had  any  particular  reason  for  disliking-  the  man,  or 
that  I  disliked  him  very  much.    But  I  did  not  like  the  style  of  the  man. 

Q.  He  had  been  raised  about  town  f — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  had. 

Q.  Did  he  render  you  any  assistance  thereat  that  time,  helping  you 
to  make  out  the  accounts,  »Scc.  ? — A.  No,  sir  ;  he  never  done  a  thing. 

i).  You  could  get  nothing-  out  of  him  of  that  sort? — A.  No,  sir;  nob 
a  thing-. 

Cross-examination  by  the  (3hatrman: 

Q.  You  say  you  were  not  at  the  distillery  more  than  once  a  month  ? — 
A.  I  might  liav(?  gone  there  oftcniH-  wiien  he  was  there,  but  since  tlieii 
I  liave  n()t  aveiaged  irior*'  than  (uice  a  month. 

(^.  Who  did  your  business  at  the  distillery  ? — A.  My  distiller  did. 

(^.  What  was  the  name  of  your  distiller  at  that  time  ? — A.  I  was  try 
ing-  to  think  ;  I  cannot  recolle<'t  to  save  my  life.     1  had  several  young 
m(Mi.     It  was  eitlu'r  McCulloh  or  Martin.      I  cannot  recollect  which  of 
the  two. 

(^.  Had  .\()u  not  been  in  tii<'  liahit,  wit  h  other  storekeepers  before  Mr. 
I'ruiu'r,  of  making  a  doulth'  ma.sli  and  i>utting  in  twice  as  nuich  as  the 
law  ;dlowc<l  ? — ^A.  Ill  li;id,  1  would  not  answei'  the  cpuistion. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  271 

Q.  You  are  at  liberty  to  do  tbat.  I  will  ask  you  if  you  dirt  not  tell 
Mr.  Bruuer,  the  .storekeeper  alludert  to,  that  you  wished  to  have  a 
double  mash,  aurt  you  had  a  beer  well  for  that  purjiose? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Did  your  distiller  do  that  without  your  authority? — A.  No,  sir; 
not  with  uiy  authority.  We  had  a  beer  well  there.  Every  bit  of 
the  beer  passes  through  the  beer  well  before  it  is  distilled. 

Q.  Did  you  uot  object  to  juittiuf;-  any  beer  into  the  beer  well  aiirt 
taking-  it  right  out? — A.  No,  sir;  it  has  to  go  into  the  still.  That  is  in 
the  operation  of  the  distilling;.  It  goes  into  the  beer  well  and  it  is^ 
pumped  from  there. 

Q.  Did  any  storekeeper  ever  divide  his  pay  with  you  ? — A.  Not  a  eeut. 

Q.  Did  you  have  a  distiller  by  the  name  of  H.  C.  Owens? — A.  Yes^ 
sir. 

Q.  How  long  did  he  dif  till  for  you  ? — A.  I  think  he  was  there  perhaps 
some  eight  or  ten  months. 

Q.  Why  did  you  discharge  him  ? — A.  I  cannot  tell  you.  My  dis- 
tillery was  stopped  by  the  oflicers  there  last  winter  a  year  ago,  a  few 
days  before  Christmas;  it  was  very  freezing-  weather,  and,  not  having 
any  fires,  the  pipes  froze  and  burst  to  pieces.  We  got  the  machinery  in 
operation,  tixed  it  upon  Friday,  and  it  burst  again.  I  got  the  machin- 
ist at  work,  and  about  12  o'clock  Sundaj*  I  wanted  him  to  go  ahead  and 
make  a  mash  at  once,  and  get  a  fire  to  keep  from  freezing  the  pipes ; 
but  he  refused  to  do  it,  and  I  discharged  him. 

Q.  On  Sunday? — A.  I  wanted  him  to  go  ahead  and  prepare  for 
Monday. 

Q.  Dirt  you  know  it  was  against  the  act  of  Congress  to  rtistill  on  Sun- 
rtay? — A.  Yes,  sir;  but  I  think  unrter  some  circumstances  rtistilliug  is 
allowert  on  Sunrtay  to  prevent  loss.  It  was  a  very  serious  matter  for 
me.     He  woulrt  not  do  it,  and  I  discharged  him. 

Q.  Were  you  about  the  distillery  when  he  was  there,  or  was  that 
when  you  were  there  about  once  a  month  ? — A.  I  cannot  recollect.  I 
think  1  was  there  a  little  oftener  when  he  was  there.  There  was  two 
years  that  I  was  down  on  my  plantation  myself;  but  I  was  there  a  little 
oftener  than  recently. 

Q.  W^ere  you  there  at  the  time  Mr.  Ramsaj^  was  storekeeper  ? — A.  At 
the  time  of  this  Owens  business  I  really  forget  who  was  storekeeper  at 
that  time  ;   I  have  hart  so  many. 

Q.  Dirt  you  know  that  rturing  Ramsay's  stay  there  anrt  previously^ 
that  it  hart  been  the  custom  with  the  storekeepers,  after  they  had 
weighed  the  day's  supplies  of  one  thing  anrt  another,  to  hang  up  the 
key  in  the  cistern-room  on  a  certain  nail  aurt  go  about  their  business  f — 
A.  I  rto  not  remember  any  such  thing ;  nothing  of  the  kinrt. 

Q.  Was  there  a  nail  where  the  key  of  the  cistern-room  hung? — A. 
Positively  there  was  nothing  of  the  kinrt. 

Q.  You  coulrt  uot  tell  if  you  w  ere  not  there  ? — A.  I  am  certain  of  it ; 
I  say  so  positively. 

Q.  You  say  you  rtirt  not  know  of  anything  of  the  kind ;  you  did  not 
know  what  the  distiller  and  storekeeper  dirt  when  you  were  away  ? — A. 
No,  sir;  but  it  is  so  absurrt  that  there  was  nothing  of  the  sort,  I  am  sat- 
istiert  ;  though,  as  you  say,  it  was  not  of  my  kuowlertge. 

Q.  Was  Owens  a  man  of  reputable  character  in  every  respect  for  a 
rtistiller? — A.  He  hart  borne  a  goort  character. 

Q.  You  rtirt  not  rtischarge  him  for  anything-  but  refusing  to  obey  you  ? — 
A.  i  rtirt  not  at  the  time,  but  I  shoulrt  have  rtoue  so  hart  it  come  to  my 
kuowlertge  what  I  hearrt  afterwards. 


272  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    EEVENUE    IN 

J.  M.  Leach  sworn  and  examined. 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  You  reside  in  Lexington,  N.  C,  1  believe? — Answer.  That 
is  my  home. 

Q.  You  are  a  lawyer  by  profession? — A.  1  am. 

Q.  Are  you  well  acquainted  about  Salisbury  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  it  is 
■within  half  an  hour's  ride  of  my  town,  IG  miles  away. 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  citizens  and  the  community  well  ? — A.  I  know 
some  there;  some  I  do  not  know. 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  character  of  Wm.  F.  Henderson  1 — A.  1  think  I 
do,  sir.     He  resides  in  my  town,  200  yards  off,  and  has  for  twenty  years. 

Q.  He  resides  in  Lexington,  the  same  town  as  you  ! — A.  Yes,  sir ;  the 
same  place. 

Q.  At  one  time  was  he  a  resident  of  Salisbury  as  well  ? — A.  He  was 
assessor  there,  for  some  years,  of  the  Internal  Kevenue  Department. 

Q.  Please  state  Colonel  Henderson's  character  I — A.  I  think  it  is  good. 

Q.  You  heard,  of  course,  some  charges  that  were  referred  to  in  the  evi- 
dence here  about  a  mule  of  Mr.  Darr's? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  know  a  good 
deal  about  that  matter. 

Q.  State  what  you  know  about  it. — A.  I  state  this:  Mr.  McOorkle,  a 
distinguished  lawyer,  and  myself  defended  Colonel  Henderson  in  that 
matter,  and  I  also  defended  another  party — one  Jerry  Glover. 

Q.  Mr.  Henderson  was  accused  of  a  very  serious  offense  i — A.  He  and 
his  brother  were  accused  of  stealing  a  mule  belonging  to  Henry  Darr. 
I  was  one  of  Mr.  Henderson's  counsel.  The  case  was  removed  by  the 
prose(;utor  over  to  Forsyth,  where  it  was  tried.  He  was  tried,  and  not 
•only  triumphantly  acquitted,  but  there  was  no  evidence  against  him. 
It  auiouuted  to  nothing  in  effect.  I  also  defended,  at  the  same  court, 
Jerry  Glover,  who  really  had  stolen  the  mule  belonging  to  Darr.  I  did 
the  best  I  could  for  him,  but  he  was  convicted  and  whipped.  I  begged 
him  off  to  fifteen  lashes  instead  of  thirty-nine,  as  the  law  provided.  It 
is  proper  that  1  should  add  here  that  David  Henderson  (as  was  in  proof), 
a  brother  of  Colonel  Henderson,  purchased  the  mule  of  Glover,  for  which 
he  paid  $30  or  $40  in  gold  and  about  that  much  in  greenbacks ;  and  the 
mule  was  in  his  possession,  and  this  fact  was  brought  out  on  the  suit. 
There  was  not  one  particle  of  evidence  connecting  Colonel  Henderson 
with  the  mule  in  any  way. 

Q.  It  was  a  transaction  between  Mr.  Glover  and  David  Henderson  ? — 
A.  1  stated  that  the  money  thatw^as  ])aid  and  proved  there — 130  or  $40 
in  gold  and  about  the  same  ainount  in  greenbacks.  I  think  about  $00 
or  $70  was  i»aid  for  the  mule  to  Glover. 

Q.  Did  the  i)rosecution  against  Colonel  Henderson  appear  to  be  of  a 
malicious  character? — A.  I  moved,  as  his  counsel,  tosabject  the  prose- 
cutor for  the  costs,  because  it  was  frivolous  aiul  malicious,  and  thecourt 
so  decided,  lie  had  to  pay  a  rouu<l  sum.  The  case  was  removed  twice, 
I  think.  About  $2,000,  or  a  little  under,  was  the  ainount  of  the  costs 
taxed  to  Darr. 

Q.  It  was  moved  sevc^ral  times  by  the  prosection  ? — A.  By  the  ])rose- 
<Mitioii ;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  it  not  appear  to  be  jterseeuting  the  man  instead  of  trying 
him  ? — A.  The  eviileiice  made  it  apjx'ar  so,  an<l  the  Judge  had  no  luvsi- 
tation  in  taxing  the  prosecutor  with  llu^  <;osts. 

(^.  Was  that  l>y  an  ordi-r  of  tlu',  Jii<lge,  and  approved  by  the  supreme 
court  of  liie  Slateon  an  appeal  by  Mr.  Darr  '! — A.  Yes,  sir;  it  was ;  and 
Mr.  Dari'  was  also  i)iosecuted  for  perjury  in  the  case. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    \ORTH    CAROLINA.  273 

Q.  For  perjury? — A.  Ves,  sir  ;  I  was  rotuintHl  to  ilefeiidliiu!,  and  the 
case  went  off;  1  don't  know  how;  it  was  never  tried.  A  nol.  profi.,1 
think. 

Q,.  You  saj' Colonel  Henderson's  cliaraeter  is  <;ood  ! — A.  Yes,  sir;  I 
say  so. 

Q.  He  is  very  active  as  a  i)olitician,  is  he  not  ? — A.  Very  :  he  is  a 
stalwart  Republican. 

Q,  And  has  been  a  candidate  for  Congress? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  a  candi- 
date once  for  Congress.  It  is  due  that  I  sliould  say  in  tliis  connection — 
due  to  nie — that  tljere  was,  some  years  i)revioust<>  that,  a  charge  against 
('olonel  Henderson,  and  I  tlu)ught  at  the  tinu?  it  wascorrect.  It  turned 
out  afterwards  to  be  a  mistake.  Ft  was  in  regard  to  tlie  }Mlrcha^c  of 
books  from  an  attorney  since  deceased.  It  war,  alleged  that  Colonel 
Henderson  had  obtained  the  books  and  had  marked  them  as  Ids  own 
while  belonging  to  another  man.  It  turned  out  to  the  satisfaction  of 
the  citizens  that  this  was  not  so  ;  that  this  hi wyer,  though  a  brilliant 
man,  was  very  unfortunate,  and  killed  himself  drinking,  and  he  would 
sell  books  and  other  things  to  get  money.  I  am  more  anxious  in  tLiis 
])ublic  way  to  do  justice  to  Colonel  Henderson,  because  I  did  him  injus- 
tice at  that  time. 

Q.  He  was  an  officer  of  the  Freedmen's  Bureau  f — A.  Yes.  sir;  he 
was,  immediately  after  the  war;  in  my  town. 

Q.  Of  course  that  created  a  prejudice  against  him  among  these  peo- 
jdef — A.  It  created  a  very  strong  prejudice  at  that  time,  inuiiediately 
after  the  war,  in  consequence  of  the  hates  and  strifes  engendered  by  it. 

Q.  This  charge  about  the  mule,  ifzc,  occurred  just  about  that  time  ? — 
A.  A  little  after  that  time,  I  think.  In  1808  the  indictment  was  found. 
In  the  testimony  there  was  not  one  particle  of  evidence,  exce[>t  that  Da- 
vid Heuderson  had  purchased  the  mule  from  the  man  who  really  had 
stolen  it. 

Q.  I  neglected  to  ask  you  if  Colonel  Henderson  is  not  now  a  prac- 
ticing lawyer  in  Lexington  ? — A.  He  is. 

Q.  Does  he  stand  fair  with  the  bar  and  court ! — A.  Yes,  sir.  I  desire 
to  state  this :  he  is  like  a  good  many  other  men  ;  he  has  improved  in  his 
morals  and  manners  in  the  last  ten  years.  He  is  now  a  member  of  the 
church,  and  I  have  heard  nothing  against  him  since. 

Q.  Are  you  acquainted  with  Dr.  Mott '? — A.  I  have  been  acquainted  with 
Dr.  Mott  for  the  last  ten  years.  I  have  met  him  from  time  to  time  for 
many  years,  but  have  known  him  Aery  well  foiten  years.  He  lives  fifty 
miles  from  me. 

Q.  Do  you  know  his  character  and  reputation  in  the  community  in 
which  he  lives  ? — A.  I  think  I  do. 

Q.  Please  state  what  it  is. — A.  It  is  good. 

Q.  Is  it  esi^ecially  high? — A.  I  will  say  that  Dr.  Mott  stan<ls  as  high 
as  any  gentleman  in  his  relations  as  Imsbaud.  father,  neighbor,  citizen, 
and  for  high  integrity  in  financial  dealings.  He  has  been  a  commission 
merchant,  among  other  things,  and  I  think  he  stands  as  high  as  any 
man. 

Q.  He  is  an  active  j^olitician? — A.  The  nuist  so  of  any  man  I  know. 

Q.  As  a  Ivcpublican  ? — A.  And  as  a  Kepublican  or  Liberal,  for  he  is 
both.     He  is  a  Republican  and  a  very  hard  and  incessant  worker. 

Q.  That  is  calculated  to  raise  prejudice  there  against  him,  if  anything 
could  in  that  country — to  be  an  in(;essant  and  hard  political  worker"? — 
A.  Well,  it  has  been  my  fortune  to  be  a  politician  in  ])ublic  life  for 
twenty-six  years,  and  this  has  created  antagonism  and  feeling.  I  don't 
know  that  there  is  a  great  deal  of  feeling  against  him  more  than  any 
S.  Mis.  lie 18 


274  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

other  man  x>articularly.  I  suppose  it  is  political  feeliug.  1  ju(lj«e  others 
by  myself  in  this  respect.  I  have  no  personal  feeling' against  anybody; 
but  in  politics  we  make  things  very  hot  in  jny  country. 

Q.  You  have  heard  Dr.  Mott's  ijolitical  enemies  sj^eak  of  him,  and 
sometimes  his  personal  enemies  also? — xl.  I  have  heard  i)olitical  op]>o- 
nents  speak  of  him.  I  would  not  undertake  to  say  that  he  had  any  per- 
sonal enemies.  I  don't  know  how  that  is.  I  have  heard  political  ene- 
mies speak  of  him — very  strongly  against  him  i)olitically. 

Q.  I)id  they  assail  his  character? — A.  Not  at  all;  they  speak  well  of 
it,  and  of  him  as  a  citizen. 

Q.  They  all  speak  well  of  his  character  as  a  citizen  and  as  a  man  of 
integrity  and  truthfulness? — A.  Yes,  sir;  but  that  he  would  stoop  to 
conquer  in  politics,  and  he  was  bound  to  win  in  some  way,  and  was  in- 
cessant in  his  labors  in  that  ]iarticular. 

Q.  You  were  a  member  of  Congress  before  the  war,  were  you  not! — 
A.  It  is  far  back  to  go,  but  I  was  a  member;  a  young  man  then. 

Q.  You  were  a  member  of  Congress  since  the  war? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q,  You  were  also  a  member  of  the  Confederate  Congress? — A.  1  was. 

Q.  During  all  which  time  you  lived  in  that  section  of  the  country  ? — 
A.  I  have  lived  there  since  1  located  as  a  lawyer.  I  was  raised  within 
eighteen  miles  of  where  I  settled — in  Lexington. 

Q.  That  is  the  reason  why  we  ask  your  opinion  as  to  the  character  of 
these  gentlemen  that  have  been  assailed  in  one  way  or  another.  I  will  now 
ask  you  the  character  of  Mr.  \Y.  H.  Kestler,  of  Salisbury  ? — A.  If  it  is 
that  which  regards  a  majority  of  men  speaking  of  him,  I  don't  know 
his  general  character;  but  if  it  is  divers  people  speaking  of  him  in  his 
town,  and  the  impression  made  upon  me,  I  can  speak  of  his  character. 

Q.  \Ye  have  not  conlined  ourselves  to  the  rigid  rules  of  a  court  of 
justice,  but  much  latitude  is  allowed  in  this  investigation.  You  know, 
of  course,  what  questions  about  the  general  character  of  a  witness  are 
asked  in  court. — A.  Hence  I  made  the  remark  I  did. 

Q.  State  your  estimate  of  the  man  and  the  estimate  in  which  he  is 
held  by  many  of  the  leading  men  in  the  community  of  Salisbury. — A.  I 
think  it  is  low — very  low. 

Q.  In  what  respect? — A.  I  heard  quite  recently  that  he  was  reputed 
not  to  bo  an  honest  man.  He  came  from  Concord,  and  that  report 
reached  Salisbur3\  It  is  rumored  he  went  into  the  war  on  that  account. 
I  heard  that  repeated  again  and  again,  and  I  heard  several  of  the  citi- 
zens of  Salisbury  speak  of  it. 

Q.  Of  what? — A.  That  he  was  charged  with  stealing  or  trading  with 
negroes  in  the  days  of  slavery,  one  or  the  other,  1  am  not  certain  which  ; 
1  have  heard  it  both  ways.     I  think  his  character  is  generally  bad. 

Q.  Wliat  is  liis  business  in  Salisbury? — A.  He  had  a  bar  there  of 
ratliei-  low  rei)ute. 

i}.  A  man  necessarily  is  not  of  bad  character  because  he  keeps  a  bar? — 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  IJai-H  arc  kept  in  different  w^ays  and  different  sorts  of  men  keep 
them? — A.  I  ha\'e  Iieard  tiiat  he  liad  some  trouble  with  his  wife  and  a 
separation  ;  that  tlieic  was  bad  conduct  on  the  part  of  botli  of  them — 
imiiioialil  ics. 

(^.  Von  say  then  lliat  liis  cliaractc^r  in  tliat  community  is  low? — A.  It 
is;  I  have  licaid  souk;  of  llic  leading  citizens  say  that  it  is  wcu'se  than  I 
liave  staled. 

().  Soni(^  of  tiie  heading  cili/cns  re]»resenled  it  as  worse  than  you  have 
sl;it('<l  if  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  ofcoursi;  I  don't  know  peisonally.  J  learned 
Homelhing  of  it  because  1  once  refused  to  take  a  glass  of  wine  at  his  bar 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAKOLINA.  275 

because  of  the  character  of  the  people  around,  and  went  out  and  did 
uot  get  any. 

'  Q.  You  found  at  his  bar  sucli  a  class  of  men  that  you  were  not  will- 
ing' to  drink  in  their  presence  t — A.  I  could  not  havedoue  it  in  thenuiin- 
tenauce  of  self-respect — drunkenness,  rioting,  vulgarity,  «S:c. 

•  Cross-examination  by  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  You  do  not  know  anything  of  the  truth  of  those  allegations  against 
Mr.  Kestler  ? — A.  I  do  not. 

Q.  But  in  consequence  of  them  you  think  his  chai'acter  is  low  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Was  it  any  lower  than  Colonel  Henderson's  was  at  the  time  that 
these  accusations  were  rife  against  him  '? — A.  There  has  been  but  one 
allegation  against  Colonel  Henderson  that  I  know  of  that  amounted  to 
anything  at  all,  that  had  its  intluence  with  me.  But  in  the  mule  uuitter 
there  was  not  a  scintilla  of  evidence  to  convict  him. 

Q.  Y^ou  are  going  into  i^articulars,  while  you  know  yoTir  testimony  on 
this  point  ought  to  be  of  a  general  character.  I  will  ask  you  if  about 
that  time  Colonel  Henderson's  character  was  not  very  bad  indeed  1 — A. 
No,  sir  ;  it  was  bad  as  to  that  matter  by  those  who  did  uot  know  him  or 
know  the  facts. 

Q.  Did  you  not  particularly  express  your  opinion  as  to  him  on  the 
stump,  very  freely,  that  he  was  a  man  of  bad  character  1 — A.  No,  sir. 
I  denounced  him  on  the  stumji  in  severe  language  for  speaking  against 
nie  when  I  was  running  for  Congress,  and  as  you  and  I  and  everybody 
else  does  to  his  opponent,  I  denounced  him. 

Q.  But  did  you  not  allege  that  he  was  a  man  of  bad  character? — A. 
I  never  alleged  that  he  was  a  dishonest  man  in  any  way.  I  state  again 
in  the  mule  matter  that  there  was  not  a  particle  of  testimony.  In  the 
other  uiatter  there  did  seem  to  be  some  testimony,  and  in  that  my  mind 
was  made  clear,  and  I  regretted  it,  and  am  now  glad  of  the  opportunity 
to  put  myself  right  in  that  matter — about  the  books — and  do  him  jus- 
tice. 

Q.  When  Colonel  Henderson  was  tried  was  there  not  an  absent  wit- 
ness for  the  State  ? — A.  I  do  not  remember  this. 

Q.  Do  you  not  remember  that  there  was  an  important  witness  for  the 
State  absent,  and  the  allegation  was  that  Colonel  Henderson  had  run 
him  away? — A.  I  do  not. 

Q.  Y'^ou  do  not  remember  that  circumstance  ? — A.  1  do  not.  Who 
was  the  witness? 

Q.  I  do  uot  reu  ember  the  witness's  name,  but  I  recollect  the  fact. — A. 
The  Srate  announced  itself  ready  for  trial,  I  know. 

Q.  Whom  did  you  ever  hear  say  that  Mr.  Kestler's  character  was 
bad?— A.  I  think  I  heard  Mr.  Klutz,  Mr.  Claude  Mills,  the  deputy 
sheritt",  and  I  think  I  have  heard  Moses  Holmes  speak  slightingly  of  it, 
but  I  cannot  say  he  w^ent  to  that  extent. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  that  he  is  in  business  now  with  Mr.  Frercks  ? — A. 
I  do  not  know  anything  about  his  business. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  whom  he  is  connected  in  business  with? — A.  No, 
sir;  I  thought  he  had  returned  to  Cabarrus. 

Q.  Mr.  Frercks  is  a  respectable  man  and  a  large  property -holder,  is 
he  not* — A.  He  is  a  respectable  gentleman  and  has  that  reputation. 

Q.  Mr.  Kestler  is  a  one-armed  soldier,  is  he  not? — A.  Mr.  Kestler  is  a 
one-armed  man,  yes,  sir. 

Q.  He  canuot  make  his  living  by  physical  labor,  can  he  ? — A.  I  should 
think  not. 


27G  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

(}.  He  keeps  a  saloon  to  make  a  living-  by  it,  does  he  not? — A,  t 
tliousiit  be  bad  given  tbat  up.  In  connection  witb  bis  repntation,  1 
beaid  tbat  it  bad  got  j^q  low  tbat  be  bad  to  get  somebody  to  get  a 
liceiiseforbim;  could  not  get  it  bimself,  but  tbrougb  anotber.  I  tbougiit 
tbat  tbe  wbole  matter  bad  been  given  up. 

(}.  AN'ould  you  l)eli<'ve  Mr.  Kestb^-'S  testimony,  if  it  was  corroborated  I 
— A.   1  should,  as  a  juror  and  a  lawyer,  if  he  was  corroborated. 

Q.  If  be  came  in  and  swore  a  certain  voucher  was  forged,  and  the  man 
■who  forged  it  said  it  was  a  forgery,  would  you  disbelieve  it? — A,  Of 
course  not.  I  would  not  hesitate  to  believe  his  oath  if  be  was  corrobo- 
rated by  other  testimony  of  a  convincing'  character.  For  instance,  from 
men  of  weight  or  character.  Then  I  would  not  hesitate  to  believe  ir,  of 
course. 

Q.  You  have  been  acquainted  with  the  operations  of  the  revenue  de- 
partment there  in  that  part  of  North  Carolina  for  many  years,  have  you 
not,  l)y  observation,  «S:e.  ? — A.  Yes,  sir,  I  think  I  have. 

Q.  I  ^vill  ask  you  the  question,  if  it  is  not  a  very  grievous  burden  upon 
our  people,  the  way  that  department  has  been  operated  ? — A.  1  do  not 
hesitate  to  say  this,  that  for  many  years  afrer  the  war  it  was  regarded 
not  only  as  a  very  grievous  burden,  but  its  management  was  odious^ 
and  that  it  was  justly  odious. 

(}.  Oppressive? — A.  Very  op]»ressive  after  the  war,  for  some  years. 
I  want  to  give  my  reasons  for  saying  that:  It  was  be(;ause  the  officers 
put  in  a  number  of  subordinates  who  were  characterless  men,  who,  in 
my  judgment,  were  very  inferior  men,  and  when  clothed  with  a  little 
brief  authority  they  cut  up  fantastic  tricks  and  behaved  very  badly. 
This  was  continued  for  some  time  after  the  war. 

(j).  I  will  ask  3^ou  if  it  was  not  charged,  and  generally  believed  for 
many  years  after  the  war,  up'  as  late  as  187C,  that  they  terrorized  over 
the  i)eople  by  going-  around  in  considei^able  squads  with  United  States 
marshals,  carrying  blank  warrants  with  them  in  their  saddle-bags,  ready 
to  airest  anybody  they  thought  proper ;  and  were  instruments  of  a 
political  party  as  much  as  for  the  government  in  the  collection  of  the 
taxes  ? — A.  There  are  so  many  questions  i)ut  there  that  I  cannot  answer 
them  all  at  once  ;  but  I  have  got  the  idea,  I  think. 

."Mr.  I*0()i,.  Before  the  witness  answers  the  question,  I  want  to  call 
attention  to  the  fact  that  Ave  are  investigating  the  collection  of  the  in- 
ternal revenue  in  the  sixth  district.     Mr.  Leach  lives  in  the  fifth  district. 

Tbe  Chairman.  We  will  confine  him  to  that  district. 

Mr.  Pool.  I  will  ask  you  whether  the  investigation  runs  behind  the 
administrntion  of  Dr.  Mott. 

'i'lic  CiiAimiAN.  There  is  no  limit  to  it,  as  far  as  I  understand  it. 

The  \Vi  I'NESS.  I  have  my  n)ind  made  u])  on  your  (juestions.  I  could 
not  say  tbat  such  extended  nj)  to  187(!,  and  [  have  reasons  why  I  could 
not  say  that;  but  i  say  this,  that  tbe  system,  commenced  badly,  with 
imi)roper,  and,  in  some  instances,  bad  and  corvu]»t  men  in  office  as  subor- 
dinates, but  it  gi"adually  grew  better  year  by  year.  There  was  in  the 
eailier  years  largely  such  oi)i)ressions  as  you  have  s])oken  of.  I  had 
heard  of  subordinates  going  around  with  blank  wari'ants,  »S:e.,  and  I 
denomieed  it,  and  I  remember  1  was  at  tbe  (;ourt  in  Ashe\iile  when 
Judge  Dick,  tbe  district  judge,  denounced  it  and  tiieir  o])])ressions,  but 
I  think  there  has  been  a  great  deal  of  im])rovement,  and  1  would  not 
undertake  to  say  that  that  I>a<l  conduct  (-ontinued  up  until  1S7(I.  There 
Avas  some  objection  to  it  then  as  now,  and  1  have  my  reasons  for  saying' 
that,  if  allowed  to  express  thein. 

i}.  I    will   ask  you   if  Ihe  re\euue  deparlment  in  our  State  has  not 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  277 

always  beeu  recognized  as  the  head  and  front  of  the  Kepulilican  i)arty 
organization? — A.  1  can  only  answer  that  this  way,  that  the  officers 
and  subordinates  belonged  to  a  l>arty,  and  they  are  presumed  and  sup- 
l)Osed  to  advocate  the  princii)les  of  that  i)arty. 

Q.  Was  there  not  more  than  a  presumption  in  that  case'  Do  you  not 
know  that  they  did  '! — A.  Yes.  sir;  the  i)resum])tion  has  btien  made  a 
fact. 

Q.  By  their  conduct  do  you  not  know  that  it  "was  generally  under- 
stood and  charged  that  all  the  oflicers  belonging  to  the  departnuuit  are 
assessed  for  the  puri)ose  of  bearing  the  ex[)enses  of  the  political  (;am- 
l);ngns'? — A.  1  do  not  know  that.  I  know  that  a  great  deal  has  been 
said  about  that.  1  have  heard  a  great  deal  of  it  in  the  i)ast.  I  have 
no  ])ersonal  knowledge  that  they  do  so,  as  to  subordinates. 

Q.  1  will  ask  you  if  it  was  not  so  understood  in  the  community?  1 
did  not  ask  your  personal  knowledge  about  it. — A.  Yes,  sir.  It  is  un- 
derstood. You  asked  me  if  I  knew,  which  surely  meant  personal  knowl- 
edge. 

().  And  that  they  got  up  public  meetings,  attended  conventions,  and 
were  active  members  of  the  party,  from  the  collector  down  to  all  of  his 
subordinates.  That  is  so  understood,  is  it  not? — A.  They  are  regarded 
as  active  mend)ers  of  the  party.  I  have  lu)  ])ers(mal  knowledge,  nor  do 
not  know  that  I  have  it  by  rumor,  that  they  get  up  public  meetings, 
but  you  always  tind  a  fair  i)roportion  of  them  in  conventions,  and  I 
think  that  they  are  partisans;  everybody  knows  that,  I  suppose,  or  be- 
lieves it. 

Q.  Do  you  think  if  they  had  collected  the  revenue  (juietly,  and  ab- 
stained from  open  partisanship  in  the  execution  of  their  offices,  that  the 
people  would  have  ]>aid  their  taxes  more  cheerfully,  and  there  ^^'ould 
have  been  a  better  state  of  things;  I  mean  in  the  sixth  district  ? — A.  I 
think  there  wouUl,  because  I  think  they  are  doing  all  this  a  great  deal 
better  now,  and  the  people  are  becoming  more  reconciled  to  the  system. 
I  want  that  to  apply  to  the  early  portion  after  the  war,  for  I  do  not 
know  that  there  has  beeu  any  bad  feeling  for  some  years,  or  much  in- 
competency of  subordinates  there.  I  think  there  has  been  a  marvel- 
ous im])rovement  both  in  the  state  of  public  feeling  and  in  the  char- 
acter of  the  subordinates. 

Q.  And  in  the  behavior  of  the  officers"? — A.  Y^es,  sir;  I  think  so, 
though  there  Avas,  and  has  been  from  the  outset,  an  opposition  and  feel- 
ing against  the  internal-revenue  laws. 

Q.  That  is  not  contined  to  any  one  party;  that  is  general? — A.  I  do 
not  know.  I  cannot  say  as  to  parties,  but  I  suppose  so.  I  must  say,  with 
due  regard  to  candor,  that  our  Democratic  friends  have  been  somewhat 
active  in  stirring  up  that  feeling. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  recently  the  Republican  candidate  for  Congress- 
man-at-large,  Mr,  Dockery,  has  not  dechired  himself  for  the  total  aboli- 
tion of  the  revenue  system  ? — A.  I  do  not  know,  sir. 

(}.  Have  you  not  seen  that  in  the  papers? — A.  I  have  not  seen  it. 

Q.  Ha\e  you  not  read  his  letter  ot  acceptance? — A.  I  have  not. 

(}.  1  asked  you  that  question  with  a  view  of  showing  that  the  oi)i>osi- 
tion  is  not  contined  to  one  party. — A.  1  was  aware  of  that. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  whether  the  patronage  of  the  revenue  department 
lias  not  been  used  for  the  purpose  of  corrupting  the  young  men  of  the 
State,  by  giving  them  positions,  and  then  getting  them  to  vote  the  Re- 
publican ticket? — A.  I  could  not  answer  the  question  in  that  way,  be- 
cause I  should  have  to  say  they  had  beeu  corrupted,  and  this  1  ca)inot 
r>ositivelv  sav. 


278  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Answer  it  iu  your  own  way. — A.  I  will  answer  it  in  this  way :  I  think 
that  offices  have  been  given  to  i^ersons  whose  affiliations  were  Demo- 
cratic, and  that  oltices,  or  some  other  consideration,  have  made  them 
advocate  the  princijdes  of  the  Hepnldican  party. 

(^>.  In  other  words,  after  getting  the  offices  they  become  Republicans? 
—A.  Yes,  sir;  they  may  have  become  so  before.  I  do  not  know  but  1 
have  heard  reports  to  that  effect ;  that  getting  the  offices  changed  them. 

Q.  I  will  ask  yon  if  it  is  not  commonly  understood— perhai)s  you  per- 
sonally know  in  some  cases— that  men  were  indicted  in  the  sixth  dis- 
trict for  violation  of  the  revenue  laws,  and  were  permitted  to  escape  on 
payment  of  the  costs,  and  afterwards  turned  out  to  be  Republicans  ? — A. 
I  have  heard  rumors  of  that  sort,  but  have  no  knowledge  of  them,  and 
would  not  attempt  to  give  an  opinion  about  matters  which  I  do  not 
know  and  have  not  knowledge  enough  through  others  to  express  an  in- 
telligent opinion  upon. 

Q.  You  have  heard  such  things? — A.  I  have  heard  such  rumors,  but 
it  has  not  amounted  to  reputation  generally. 

Q.  Could  you  give  the  names  of  some  parties  who  had  thus  been 
transmogrified? — A.  Ko,  sir;  I  do  not  know  of  a  single  instance.  I 
could  n()t  give  a  case  of  transmogrification. 

Q.  Do  you  know  a  gentleman  in  Iredell  County  by  the  name  of  Jim 
AYilliams? — A.  When  I  was  running  for  Congress,  I  think  I  knew  that 
man.  He  is  about  fifty  years  of  age.  I  think  he  lived  in  the  northenii 
part  of  tlie  county.     I  remember  such  a  num. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  his  case? — A.  I  do  not. 

(^.  lie  was  indicted  for  blockading,  and  was  a  furious  Democrat,  but 
came  out  a  furious  Republican,  and  ran  for  the  legislature  afterwards"? — 
A.  I  did  not  know  he  ever  ran  for  the  legislature. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Y'ou  are  a  Democrat  yourself  in  politics,  are  you  not  ? — A.  No,  sir ; 
I  never  was.     1  am  a  Whig,  and  so  known  to  be. 

Q.  You  were  sent  to  Congress  as  a  Democratic  nominee  in  the  State  ? — 
A.  1  was  a  Whig.  I  never  have  been  anything  else.  I  never  intend 
to  be. 

Q.  When  last  in  Congress  you  were  nominated  by  the  Democratic 
party  of  the  State,  were  you  not? — A.  Yes,  sir;  but  I  ran  as  a  AYhig 
betbrc  the  war. 

i).  I  am  speaking  of  since  the  war? — A.  Yes,  sir;  the  Conservative 
]»arty  nominated  me;  Demociats  and  Whigs. 

(}.   Ilaxe  you  ever  voted  the  lv('i)ublican  ticket? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  You  s])eak  of  rumors  around  in  oi)position  to  the  character  of  the 
rex'enue  ollicials,  «S:c. ;  do  you  know  that  it  was  made  a  |>oliti('al  hobby 
in  canvasses  there? — A.  1  have  said  as  much,  and  I  want  to  add  there, 
that  J  have  not  only  not  made  a  si)ee(;h  against  the  internal-revenue  law, 
but  hav«}  denounced  others  for  making  them  on  the  stump,  when  I  was 
going  around  as  an  elector  of  the  State  at  large. 

(}.  vV  It  hough  you  have  affiliated  with  the  Democratic  party,  you  are 
a  fail-  man  ? — A.  J  do  iu)t  undertalce  to  say  that  of  myself.  I  try  to  bie 
a  Just  man. 

(}.  That  is  the  reason  youaieon  the  stand. — A.  I  do  not  say  that:  but 
I  ha\e  iiexcr  allowed  myself  t(>  denounce  the  revenue  law  in  my  life.  I 
hav<'  denouneed  (ttliers  who  opposed  it,  because  I  thought  that  the  laws 
of  the  land  should  be  adiiiinislei-ed  and  that  that  matter  or  system 
could  1m'  iiii|tr-o\  ('(1  without  denouncing  it  cii  ma.s.sr,  and  that  its  abuses 
could   Ite    ecdieeled. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  279 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  other  Democratic  speakers  generally  have  done 
so  ? — A.  I  know  a  great  deal  of  it  was  done. 

Q.  Were  those  denunciations  very  sharp  and  violent? — A.  Very 
severe. 

Q.  Were  they  denunciations  as  to  the  character  of  the  officers  ? — 
A.  Of  their  character,  ami  calling  them  a  number  of  ridiculous  and 
odious  names. 

Q.  Were  they  denounced  as  "thieves"? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  was  a 
very  common  expression. 

Q.  And  oppressors  of  tlieir  own  people  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Eating  out  the  vitals  of  the  people  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Appropriating  the  money  to  their  own  uses  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Instead  of  paying  it  into  the  United  States  Treasury  ? — A.  All 
these  denunciations  were  made. 

Q.  The  law  itself  was  denounced,  was  it  not? — A.  Yes,  sir;  but  its 
abuses  much  more. 

Q.  This  was  general  on  the  stump  and  in  the  public  news[)apers, 
was  it  not  ? — A.  It  was. 

Q.  And  you  thought  it  was  wrong,  and  rather  denounced  the  men 
who  did  it  ? — A.  I  thought  so  ;  I  was  between  these  extremes,  planted 
there,  and  meant  to  stay  there,  and  am  still  there. 

Q.  Did  not  that  have  the  tendency  to  obstruct  the  execution  of  the 
law  ? — A.  It  had  that  tendency,  but  it  tended,  also,  to  lessen  its  abuses, 
in  my  oiiinion. 

Q.  To  resist  the  authority  of  the  men  to  whom  was  committed  its  ex- 
ecution ? — A.  Unciuestionably. 

Q.  Did  not  that  necessitate  more  severe  measures  than  otherwise 
would  have  been  necessary  in  the  execution  of  the  law  ? — A.  That  must 
have  been  the  effect. 

Q.  You  say  that  shortly  after  the  war  there  was  not  so  good  a  class 
of  officers  ? — A.  j^o,  sir ;  there  were  many  bad  ones. 

Q.  Was  it  not  difflcult  at  that  time  to  get  officers  to  execute  such  a 
lawf— A.  I  cannot  say  that;  possibly  that  was  so.  The  best  men  were 
not  selected.     In  my  opinion  they  might  have  done  better. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  Mr.  Wiley,  the  predecessor  of  Dr.  ^Nlott,  when 
he  went  out  of  office  ? — A.  Very  well. 

Q.  What  w^as  the  date  of  that  ? — A.  When  he  went  out? 

Q.  Yes. — A.  I  suppose  1875,  '6,  or  7. 

Q.  AVas  it  not  about  1872,  or  '3  ?-A.  Mr.  Wiley  ?  That  is  so,  1873; 
1  was  mistaken  as  to  the  date. 

Q.  After  1872  did  an  improvement  set  in  ? — A.  Very  great,  sir. 

Q.  Has  that  improvement  been  going  on  ? — A.  That  improvement  has 
continued  under  Dr.  Mott's  administration.     I  state  that  as  a  fact. 

Q.  It  has  been  getting  better  and  better  all  the  time? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Very  greatly  better  than  it  was  before  ? — A.  Very  greatly  better 
than  it  was. 

Q.  Then  you  think  Dr.  Mott  as  an  officer  has  successfully  improved, 
the  service,  and  in  doing  so  has  improved  the  general  feeling  of  the  com- 
munity with  i-egard  to  it  ? — A.  Very  greatly,  and  I  can  give  my  reasons 
for  it.  In  canvassing  through  that  district  I  looked  into  that  matter, 
and  determined  never  to  denounce  individuals,  but  I  did  all  I  could  to 
get  a  better  set  of  officers,  an<l  looked  into  the  matter  when  canvassing 
as  an  elector  in  that  district — in  that  part  of  the  State.  I  ^ad  an  inter- 
est in  the  welfare  of  my  State,  and  had  rejoiced  to  see  that  there  was  a 
very  decided  improvement  in  the  revenue  department:  and  I  state  fur- 
ther what  f  heard  as  a  general  rumor,  that  when  Dr.  Mott  got  an  iu- 


28()  COa.LKCTIO\    OF    INTERNAL    IJKVKNIJE    IN 

efficient  officer  or  cbaracterless  man  Id,  he  turned  him  out.  There  were 
a  number  of  instances  of  that  sort  that  1  heard  on  inquiring-  into  it.  I  was 
at  tlic  time  ligliting  Dr.  Mott  in  a  political  way  and  had  occasion  to 
loolc  into  it  on  that  account. 

i).  If  you  had  got  anything  on  that  sul»Je<;t,  you  would  have  used  it 
against  him  on  the  stump,  of  course? — A.  No;  I  do  not  say  that.  I 
determined  not  to  denounce  that  system,  but  the  inefficient  men  in  it, 
whoever  they  might  be. 

Q.  At  any  rate,  you  looked  into  it  as  fully,  perliiips,  as  any  man  could, 
and  know  just  what  the  condition  of  things  was  ^ — A.  I  think  so.  I 
think  1  was  in  many  of  the  counties  of  his  district  speaking  in  that 
general  canvass. 

Q.  It  is  doubtless  true,  as  you  say,  that  the  Kepublicau  officers  take 
an  active  part  in  politics,  go  into  conventions  or  meetings,  aid  in  getting 
them  ui);  but  I  will  ask  you  do  not  other  officers  beside  revenue  officers 
do  the  same  thing? — A.  I  think  so. 

Q.  You  were  in  politics  before  the  war  as  a  Whig;  I  will  ask  you,  as 
T  was  a  ^^'hig■  also  in  the  old  times,  if  the  Whig  officers  did  not  so  act 
in  political  matters? — A,  We  have  all  done  it,  and  1  suppose  it  will 
continue  as  long-  as  our  present  form  of  government  exists. 

Q.  Do  you  consider  that  illegal  at  all? — A.  Well,  from  a  political 
standi)oiut,  I  do  not.  I  would  make  a  distinction  between  higii  Chris- 
tian ethics  and  })olitical  ethics,  if  there  be  such,  as  1  think  every  politi- 
cian in  America  does.  I  think  both  parties  and  all  party  men  use 
subordinate  officers  and  others  to  raise  money  wherever  they  can  to 
utilize  in  elections. 

Q.  Have  yon  ever  known  moral  ethics  to  play  any  p'art  in  party  poli- 
tics?— A.  1  have  not,  unfortunately,  for  in  our  form  of  government, 
good  as  it  is,  that  is  an  unfortunate  concomitant,  to  get  money  if  pos- 
sible. 

Q.  Thrrc  are  Democratic  officers  who  do  that  to-day,  are  there  not? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Ivailroad  officers  and  others,  as  well  as  State  officers? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  Do  they  play  their  part  in  i>arty  politi<;s? — A.  They  certainly  do. 

Q.  Do  you  think  the  fact  that  because  revenue  officers  take  an  active 
part  in  furthering  the  interest  of  their  party  that  that  was  any  justifi- 
cation for  denouncing  the  law  aiul  its  execution  or  individual  officers 
as  "thieves,"  "oppressors  of  their  ])eople,"  eating  out  the  substance  of 
the  communities,  and  all  that  sort  of  thing- ?-^A.  I  do  not,  and  I  have 
said  so  on  the  stumj)  and  in  private,  because  I  have  not  held  any  ex- 
treme views  on  this  or  other  subjects. 

Q.  The  question  w;is  i)ut  to  you  whether  ai)pointments  in  the  revenue 
ser\ice  were  used  as  instruments  for  corrupting  DcnuH-rats  and  making- 
them  tiii'ii  over  to  the  Uei>ul)lican  jcirty? — A.  That  <iuestion  was  not 
answiU'cd  in  that  way. 

(,►.   It  was  i>ut  to  you  in  that  way.     1  know  how  you  answered  it,  but^ 
1  Wiint  to  ask  this:   Is  it  unnsual  in   ])olitics  lor  an  appointment  to  be 
sometimes  ma(h',  tofnrther  tiie  interest  of  political  parties? — A.   1  think 
among  politicians  they  are  generally  so  made,  if  (hey  can   utilize  them 
in  all  ]»ai-ties. 

(^.  If  th(\v  appointed  a  man  who  was  a  little.  shaUy  on  the  opposition 
Hi«hi  for  the  purpose,  of  making  him  a  little  more  shaky,  or  of  making 
him  eoiiie  i>ver? — A.  HnvM  is  the  rule  of  both  ]>arti(^s  in  the  politics  of 
iii.\  ••oiiiitry. 

(^).    1 1  IS  this  been    picssefl    to   aii>-  iiiDre   e\cessi\-e  degree   in  this  dis- 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OK    NORTH    CAROLINA.  281 

Uict  than  is  customary  in  others  ' — A.  \V(^ll,  sii',  Dr.  Motfc  is  so  active 
a  i>oliti('iau  that  to  that  extent  it  may  liav(!  bet'u  used  ujore.  He  is  so 
hard  a  worker,  and  I  judi^e  by  results.  Therefore,  I  cauuot  answer  itiu 
that  way.  There  has  been  more  work  there  tlian  in  other  districts. 
Hence,  I  judiie  by  results,  and  results  show  more  has  liecn  done  in  his 
district. 

Q.  Yon  do  not  know  tli;it  it  has  been  .' — A.  I  do  not  know  jiositively 
that  it  has  been. 

Q.  You  only  know  it  tVom  the  results' — A.  Th;it  liiss  foinied  my 
o])inion,  as  explained, 

Q.  These  results  show  that  amongst  other  things  hi?  has  increased 
the  strength  of  his  party  in  his  district? — A.  He  has  the  credit  for  in- 
creasing it  more  than  he  really  did.  In  my  opinion,  for  reasons  very 
o.bvious  to  nie,  Mr.  Eobbins,  the  tormer  candidate  and  niend)er  of  Con- 
gress, increased  the  Democratic  strength  th«u'e,  for,  though  he  was  a 
pronounced  Democrat,  he  got  quite  a  number  of  Eepublican  votes,  and 
ran  his  vote  up  to  a  large  nmjority ;  and  I  thiid<:  the  basis  of  calcidatiim 
for  the  increase  made  by  Dr.  Mott  is  due  in  part  to  the  (U'crease  conse- 
quent on  Mr.  Robbins's  defeat  for  the  nomination. 

Q.  You  mean  that  he  has  decreased  Mr.  llobbins's  strength  'I — A.  1 
mean  Mr.  Kobbins's  increase  has  not  been  kept  uj)  by  his  successor. 

Q.  Well,  Dr.  Mott  has  been  suc(;essful  as  a  revenue  ortlcer  in  making- 
au  improvement  iu  the  service  and  the  public  feeling  in  regard  to  it ; 
and  has  also  been  successful  as  a  party  manager  and  [)arty  worker? — 
A.  He  is  a  liard  worker  and  au  active  stalwart  Republican,  working  all 
the  time. 

Q.  Did  yon  think  that  that  justitied  the  violent  and  excessive  denun- 
ciation of  revenue  ofhcers  by  the  opposite  party? — A.  I  do  not  think 
they  all  do  it.  It  is  only  in'  degree.  These  eiforts  of  the  parties  are 
€ommon,  and  it  is  only  iu  degree.  Some  men  work  more  effectively 
than  others  ;  they  have  nujre  talent,  more  organizing  and  administra- 
tive ability. 

Q.  Do  yon  not  believe  that  the  dis])araging'  reports  and  rumors 
against  Dr.  Mott  in  that  district,  and  his  officers,  are  put  forth  by  Demo- 
cratic politicians  for  the  pnri)Ose  of  breaking  down  the  effect  of  Dr. 
Mott's  work  in  a  political  way? — A.  I  think  so,  by  some  ;  I  would  not 
undertake  to  say  that  it  is  universal.  I  am  satisfied,  and  can  give 
reasons  why  these  things  seem  to  have  arisen  to  break  the  force  of  his 
intlnence. 

Q.  Is  not  all  this  cloud  of  slanderous  reports  npon  him  and  his  sub- 
ordinates in  that  district,  really  political  and  partisan  in  its  character  f — 
A.  I  must  modify  as  I  did  before.  I  think  it  is  to  some  extent.  I  feel 
bound  to  say  that. 

Q.  Would  you  say  mosthi  f  I  am  Speaking  of  Dr.  Mott's  adnunistra- 
tion,  not  Mr.  Wiley's. — A.  1  .say  the  case  was  being  prejudge<l,  and 
the  denunciations  of  the  department  and  of  individuals  would  indicate 
there  was  a  strong-  and  bitter  feeling  of  that  sort  against  Dr.  Mott, 
not  so  much  as  a  man,  but  as  an  active  party  man. 

Q.  Of  course  these  rumors  are  not  believed,  or  his  character  would 
have  suffered.  Has  his  character  suffered  as  a  man '? — A.  It  has  not; 
I  have  heard  some  strong  i)olitical  opponents  speak  of  him  as  a  man  of 
high  character  for  honor,  integrity,  and  in  his  business  relations — at 
least  one  or  two  of  his  very  bitterest  o]»ponents. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  You  have  disclaimed  ever  being  a  Democrat;  you  say  you  never 
were  ? — A.  Are  you  going  to  try  me  on  politics  now  % 


282  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  No ;  but  the  position  you  have  put  yourself  in  is,  of  course,  cal- 
culated to  affect  your  testimony. — A.  I  don't  know  what  you  mean 
by  that.  I  would  like  to  be  understand  that.  1  was  put  down  as  a  Whig 
but  have  acted  with  the  Democratic  party  in  every  election  since  the 
war. 

Q.  The  representation  is  now  that,  you  being  a  partisan  on  neither 
side,  you  stand  in  a  position  to  give  verj^  impartial  testimony. — A.  I 
have  not  said  anytliing  of  that  sort.  I  would  like  to  understand  your 
remark  that  my  ])osition  aftects  my  testimony. 

Q.  I  say  you  have  disclaimed  being  a  Democrat ;  that  is  so,  is  it  not! 
— A.  As  a  Democrat '?  I  said  I  ha«l  acted  with  the  Democratic  party 
and  had  given  no  other  vote,  but  I  had  always  called  myself  a  Whig,  and 
was  so  put  down  when  1  was  here  in  Congress.  The  Congressional 
Directory  will  show  it.  I  have  acted  Avith  the  Democratic  party,  and 
therefore  to  that  extent  I  have  been  a  party  man. 

By  Mr.  1*00L : 

Q.  You  acted  with  the  Democratic  party  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Nevertheless  it  is  true  that  in  response  to  Mr.  Pool,  in  your  testi- 
mony, you  have  said  you  were  not  a  Democrat  ? — A.  I  said  not  a  Demo- 
crat in  one  sense.  1  have  acted  with  the  party,  and  voted  with  them, 
but  have  stood  between  these  extremes.  Have  always  been  a  Whig  in 
principle;  that  is  Avhat  I  said. 

Q.  I  ask  you  now  if  you  are  not  the  attorney  for  the  present  collector  1 — 
A.  Mr.  Cooper? 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  will  ask  if  your  son  is  not  an  officer  in  Mr.  Cooper's  office? — A. 
He  is. 

(}.  I  ask  you  if  Dr.  Mott  and  Mr.  Cooper  are  not  intimate  personal 
liiHl  ixjlitical  friends  ? — A.  I  suppose  they  are,  so  far  as  I  know. 

Q.  1  ask  \()u  if  you  did  not  yourself  deiiounce  the  revenue  department 
in  the  cami»aign  of  1876  from  one  end  of  the  State  to  the  other? — A.  I 
did  no  such  thing.  I  stated  this :  That  I  denouneed  the  manner  of  its 
i'ollection  an<l  its  abuses;  but  I  never  denounced  individuals  in  that 
<'arn])aign. 

().  By  name:' — A.  There  Avere  two  things  you  very  well  remember  I 
did  not  do  in  the  canvass.  I  objected  to  drawing  the  color  line  and  to 
denouncing  the  internal-revenue  laws  of  this  country  ;  but  I  did  denounce 
the  adiiiinistiation  of  them  in  particulars  aiul  their  abuses. 

i).  That  is  what  1  ask  you.  The  Democratic  ])arty  did  nothing  more 
than  assail  the  laws  as  unwise  ones,  and  advocated  their  repeal;  they 
did  not  <i<*n(>nnce  the  law,  did  they? — A.  No,  sir;  I  could  not  say  that 
they  all  (lid,  thoiigii  some  did. 

().  I>ut  they  denounced  the  manner  in  Avhich  it  was  executed,  and  so 
did  y«Mi  '! — A.  You  know  very  well  that  1  avoided  a  denunciation  that 
would  lend  to  affect  the  administration  of  the  revenue  laws,  and  I 
a\()ide<l  1  hat  e\'ery  where,  and  protested  against  it  throughout  the  State. 
I  ent<'rtain  moderate  views  on  these  matters,  ami  always  have,  as  every- 
bud\  in  tiie  State  knows. 

liy  Senator  McDill: 
i).  You  w«u-e   si>eaking  of  fhe  state  of  affairs  a  little  after  the  war. 
There  was  a  v«'ry  distnil)e<l  g(;n(M'al  condilion  of  the  ])ul>lie  mind  then, 
was  there  not? — A.   \'ery  griiat.     1  looked  upon  it  as  one  of  the  imme- 
diate eoiK'oiiiitants  of  the  war. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  283- 

Q.  As  far  as  yon  know,  it  would  have  been  a  little  difficnlt  nnder  the 
circnnistances,  Jnst  at  that  time  after  the  war,  to  secnre  the  services  of 
the  very  best  men  residing  there  to  carry  ont  and  administer  the  inter- 
nal-revennelaw.  Was  there  not  a  pnblic  sentiment  really  against  them  ? — 
.\.  There  was  a  very  stron.u'  pnblic  sentiment  a<iainst  them,  and  1  think 
l)robably  the  very  best  men  wonld  have  hesitated  to  acce])t  ])ositions — 
the  servicer  Avas  so  odions. 

Q.  Was  there,  particnhirly  at  that  time  after  the  war,  manifested,  on 
the  i)art  of  the  oi>i)osite  party,  a  disi>ositi()n  to  seize  npon  and  make 
nse  of  all  these  things,  in  the  way  of  dennnciation,  not  only  of  the  otti- 
cers  whose  eharaeter  might  have  been  nnfortnnate,  bat  of  the  adminis- 
tration of  the  law  generally;  whether  that  was  not  used  with  avidity  by 
the  politicians? — A.  I  have  said  this  much  in  substance  with  qnalitica- 
tion — only  (inalified  it  in  attempting  to  protect  myself,  though  the  abuses 
were  much  more  denounced  than  the  law;  for  I  had  tried  to  avoid  it.. 
My  views  are  well  known  by  every  intelligent  and  honest  man  in  the 
State. 

Q.  Kow,  in  view  of  the  condition  of  affairs  which  seems  to  have  been 
almost  unavoidable  at  that  time,  I  ask  you  if  yon  did  not  regard  the 
improvement  with  reference  to  tlie  feeling  in  the  public  mind,  and  the 
feeling  of  the  ])ublic  generally  with  regard  to  the  revenue  law,  as  very 
remarkable  '! — A.  1  think  it  is  remarkable  and  wonderful. 

Q.  I  understood  you  to  say  that  it  has  been  very  nnich  improved  dur- 
ring  Dr.  Mott's  administration  ? — A.  Very  greatly  so;  and  I  think  dur- 
ing the  administration  of  the  other  revenue  ofiicers  of  the  State.  I  d(> 
not  hesitate  to  say  that  I  looked  into  it  with  a  view  of  striking  at  the 
system  where  I  could  without  any  bitter  or  unmeasured  language;  but 
in  such  a  way  as  would  reach  the  hearts  and  minds  of  the  people. 

Q.  You  have  been  very  long  in  public  affairs.  Is  it  not  a  fact  in  the 
best  cojnmunities  where  there  has  been  no  disturbing  cause  there  is  a 
natural  antipathy  and  objection  to  any  kind  of  revenue  collecting  ? — A.. 
It  has  been  so  since  the  foundation  of  this  government,  and  I  suppose 
it  will  continue  unquestionably,  for  taxes  are  a  sensitive  thing.  The 
pocket  nerve  is  very  sensitive. 

Q.  Is  it  true,  as  a  matter  of  history,  that  up  to  this  time  there  had 
been  a  general  avoidance  of  the  collection  of  internal-revenue  taxes  for 
the  general  government? — A.  Yes,  sir;  much  avoidance. 

Q.  So  it  was  naturally  an  obnoxious  matter  to  the  people  ? — A.  A^es, 
sir;  there  was  a  great  deal  of  feeling  against  the  government,  and  avoid- 
ance of  the  payment  of  the  taxes  in  the  early  i)art  of  the  system. 

Q.  Is  it  not  true  in  the  sixth  district,  that  that  violent  resistance  to 
the  revenue  laws  has  abated,  as  the  years  have  progressed,  so  there  is 
less  and  less  violence  and  bloodshed? — A.  Yes,  sir;  there  is  very  little 
violence,  and  very  little  bloodshed,  and  it  has  very  greatly  improved. 
The  people  have  become  habituated  to  the  administration  of  the  law. 
There  are  better  officers,  and  unquestionably  better  subordinates,  and 
the  system  is  more  tolerable. 

Q.  Would  you  not  also  regard  it  as  excellent  policy — I  am  speaking 
now  of  political  policy,  or  of  governmental  policy — if  it  was  found  that 
one  party  was  establishing  itself  in  this  way,  and  as  a  remedy  against 
this,  if  the  collectors  and  persons  having  the  appointment  of  subordi- 
nates, should  try,  if  possible,  to  secure  men  from  that  party  which  in 
some  measure  had  the  best  men  in  it  ? — A.  I  should  think  it  would  have 
that  effect. 

Q.  And  you  would  not  call  that  corruption  of  the  men  appointed,  but 
a  proper  action  on  their  part?  — A.  That  is  what  all  parties  do.     That  is 


284  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    RE^'ENUE    IN 

the  idea.  1  know  of  iudividuals  changing-.  I  did  not,  and  as  my  good- 
tempered  friend  Governor  Yance  looked  at  me  as  a  Democrat,  it  was 
simply  due  to  the  fact,  that  in  twenty-eight  years  of  public  service  I  had 
lieen  known  as  moderate  in  my  views.  I  have  denounced  my  opponents, 
but  among  the  masses  of  the  people,  I  have  appealed  to  them  in  the  light 
of  reason,  and  have  stood  between  those  extremes  in  all  my  i)ublic  life; 
and  my  historic  as  well  as  journalistic  career  will  prove  that  to  a  com- 
plete demonstration. 

Q.  Would  not  that  have  been  a  very  natural  result,  that,  some  i)er- 
sons  who  were  appointed  to  suboidinate  positions,  and  were  formerly 
Democrats,  mostly  from  what  they  heard  in  public  speeches,  and  seen 
in  the  public  press  regarding  the  internal  revenue — if  they  should  become 
administrators  of  that  law  and  found  nothing  sinful  or  hurtful  in  it  that 
they  should  change  from  the  Democratic  party  to  theEepublicans? — A. 
Some  men  are  guided  that  way  bj'^  principle,  not  oidy  througli  North 
•Carolina,  but  all  over  the  country. 

T.  K.  Dayisi  sworn  and  examined  for  the  government. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  Where  do  you  reside  ? — Answer.  I  reside  in  Buncombe 
County,  X.  C. 

Q.  What  is  your  age  ? — A.  Fifty-three  years. 

Q.  Have  you  been  in  the  service,  ami  for  how  long  a  time,  of  the  In- 
ternal Eevenue  Department  of  the  sixth  district  of  North  Carolina  ? — 
A.  No,  sir  ;  never  was. 

Q.  Have  you  been  in  the  service  of  the  government  at  all  .' — A. 
1  have  been,  as  a  deputy  marshal. 

Q.  A  deputy  TJnited  States  marshal  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  acting  in  tliat  cajiacity  ? — A.  I  had  the 
same  business  in  1868  for  a  while  under  Daniel  E.  Goodloe.  I  was  ap 
pointed  a  special  deputy. 

Q.  How  long  altogether  have  you  been  in  the  service  ? — A.  Then  I 
was  appointed  by  Colonel  Douglas — I  think  in  1873;  I  won't  be  posi- 
tive as  to  the  date. 

Q.  Altogether  you  have  been  in  the  service  over  ten  years,  have  you 
not  t — A.  Something  over  ten  years.  I  did  not  do  very  much  work  for 
(loodloe.     He  did  not  stay  in  very  long. 

Q.  What  ])art  of  the  district,  or  how  mucli  of  the  district  have  you 
had  oc(;asion  to  travel  over  during  all  this  time  you  have  been  deputy 
]narshal  '! — A,  I  have  traveled  over  a  good  deal  of  it  in  the  western 
l)art  of  tlie  district,  and  sonie  in  the  eastern  i)art  as  far  as  Hickory  in 
Catawba  County,  to  and  in  Lincoln,  Jiurke  County,  ]McI^()well  County, 
Caldwell  County,  Rutherford  County,  L'olk  County,  and  Henderson 
County. 

Q.  ilow  much  of  the  counties  west  of  the  Blue  Kidge  ? — A.  I  have 
done  some  woik  in  Haywood  County  and  in  Madison,  and  some  in  Yan- 
cey and  Mitchell  Counties. 

Q.  What  are  your  i)()litics  ? — A.   1  .una  lU'pMblican. 

Q.  Yon  have  been  all  the  time'^ — A.  1  never  voted  any  other  ticket 
sirnte  the  war. 

(}.  Yon  arrest  i)eo|)le,  of  conrse,  as  yon  have  occasion,  and  it  is  re- 
•  inired  '. — A.   ^'es,  sii-. 

i).  Will  yon  state  if  yon  ever  had  any  dillicnlty  in  making  arrests 
in  ilial  connhy? — A.  Never.  1  was  at  one  time  with  a  s<puul  of  men 
u  hen  we  were  lircd  npoii. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  285- 

Q.  Oue  time  you  were  fire<l  ui)oii '! — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  but  1  never  liad  any 
(lifficnlty  whatever. 

Q.  Did  yon  know  any  cause  of  offense  that  those  men  had  j^iven  or 
sni)pose(l  cause  for  being-  fired  ui)on  ?  -A.  I  do  not  know  that  they 
pive  any  cause  of  offense  for  b«un<i'  fired  ui)on, 

Q.  Did  tliey  not  jthinder  :\n  old  Uuly  of  a  little  tobacc-o  that  they  found 
in  her  liouse  ? — A.  Tliey  had  taken  some  tol)acco  from  an  old  lady. 

Q.  Green  tobacco  ? — A.  Leaf-tobacco  twisted  ni). 

(^.  How  much  of  it? — A.  Two  and  a  half  or  three  ponnds. 

(}.  Therefore,  for  that  you  think  that  they  were  fired  upon  ;  how  soon 
after  ? — A.  In  abont  two  hours  afterwards. 

Q.   What  ever  beciine  of  that  tobacco  ? — A.  I  do  not  know,  sir. 

Q.  Was  it  returned  to  the  Government  of  the  United  States  ? — A. 
Xot  to  my  knowledge. 

Q.  You  were  along  as  marshal  ? — A.  They  were  special  agents ;  none 
of  them  lived  in  the  sixth  district.  They  were  special  agents  accom- 
panied by  a  special  agent,  Wagoner.  The  men  were  in  charge  of  Brem- 
halt,  from  New  York.     I  thought  that  they  behaved  a  little  badly. 

Q.  You  felt  safe  in  going  into  any  part  of  the  district  to  execute  war- 
rants ? — A.  I  could  not  say  at  all  times  that  I  felt  exactly  safe,  bnt  at  the 
same  time  I  got  along  without  any  difficulty.  Sometimes  I  did  not  feel 
Aery  safe. 

Q.  Where  was  that  conntry  in  which  you  were  tired  upon  ? — A.  In  the 
South  Mountains,  Burke  County. 

().  Do  you  know  the  politics  of  the  neighborhood? — A.  Yes,  sir:  I 
think  so. 

Q.  What  were  they  ? — A.  Republican,  very  decidedly,  I  think. 

Q.  So  it  was  not  their  politics  that  caused  their  being  fired  upon  ? — 
A.  I  think  not. 

Q.  And  not  as  a  result  of  stump  speeches  ? — A.  I  could  not  sav  as  to 
that.  "  . 

Q.  At  least  it  was  not  the  result  of  Democrats  persuading  other  Demo- 
crats to  violate  the  law  t — A.  I  could  not  tell  anything  about  the  cause 
of  the  firing.  I  know  the  firing  was  done  after  we  had  cut  up  a  large 
blockade  distillery  that  nuirning. 

Q.  Who  did  it  belong  to? — A.  It  was  supposed  to  belong  to  Haivex: 
York. 

Q.  What  were  his  politics  ? — A.  Republican,  so  he  said. 

Q.  Do  you  know  any  instances  where  storekeepers  divided  their  pay 
with  distillers? — A.  Not  to  my  knowledge. 

Q.  Do  you  know  any  instance  where  other  parties  said  tli(>y  divided — 
either  distillers  or  storekeepers? — A.  I  do  not  think  I  have.  1  have 
heard  it  rumored  very  frequently. 

Q.  You  have  no  personal  knowledge  on  the  subject? — A.  No,  I  do  not 
think  I  recollect  an  instance. 

Q.  Do  you  know  one  R.  A.  Cobb  in  Burke  County  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  office  did  he  hold  in  the  reveiuie  indivi<lually  ? — A.  He  was 
at  one  time  a  storekeeper. 

Q.  How  did  he  get  out,  do  you  know  ? — A.  No,  I  do  not  know  that  1 
could  state  the  grounds  upon  which  he  was  tnrned  out. 

Q.  He  was  turned  out  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  understood  so. 

Q.  For  some  malfeasance  in  office  ? — A.  I  think  so. 

Q.  Do  you  know  that  he  was  ever  restored  afterwards? — A,  I  do  not 
think  he  was  a  storekeei)er  any  more. 

Q.  Was  he  not  restored  to  the  service? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  was  in  serv- 
ice after  that. 


286  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Is  Le  in  the  service  now? — A.  I  do  not  know  whether  he  lias  got 
a  commission  or  not  now.    He  is  not  on  duty;  was  not  at  hist  accounts. 

Q.  ])o  you  know  one  James  Henu  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  i)osition  did  lie  hold  in  the  government? — A.  I  have  em- 
ployed him  as  a  guide  to  assist  me  as  dei)uty  marshal  at  that  time;  lie 
did  not  hold  any  commission. 

Q.  Do  you  know  if  he  ever  did  any  service  that  he  was  paid  for  by 
voucher  ?— A.  I  do  not  know  of  my  own  knowledge  if  he  ever  did  any 
service,  further  than  I  heard  him  say  he  had  done  some  service. 

Q.  What  did  you  hear  him  say  about  it  ? — A.  1  heard  him  say  he  had 
done  some  service  for  some  of  those  peoi)le.  I  think,  some  of  those 
special  deputy  collectors. 

Q.  Did  he  describe  the  service? — A.  The  service  was  as  a  si)ecial 
guide.     That  is  what  they  call  it. 

Q.  On  what  occasion;  what  raid? — A.  I  could  not  state;  I  cannot 
recollect  the  date  exactly.  He  said  that  he  had  done  some  service  and 
had  put  in  a  claim  and  they  did  not  pay  him. 

Q.  And  they  did  not  pay  him  ? — A.  Did  not  pay  him. 

Q.  How  n.nch  did  he  say  that  he  had  put  in  a  claiui  for  ;  do  you  re- 
collect ? — A.  My  understanding  is,  that  it  was  for  twenty-eight  dollars. 

Q.  How  much  did  he  say  he  got?— A.  He  got  $2.50  or  $3.50, 1  think. 

Q.  I  understand  that  Mr.  Herrn  told  you  he  had  done  some  service 
for  the  department,  and  had  ]nit  in  a  claim  for  $28,  and  had  got  $2.50 
for  it  ?— A.  1  think  $2.50,  or  maybe  $3.50. 

Q.  He  di<l  not  speak  of  but  one  voucher  ? — A.  iSTo,  sir. 

Q.  You  do  not  recollect  upon  what  occasion  that  was  ? — A.  I  was  not 
there  at  the  time  when  he  did  the  service,  and  could  not  swear  positively 
that  he  did  it  at  all. 

Q.  These  counties  you  had  traveled  over  and  have  described  here,  and 
did  service  in,  were  about  as  rough  as  any  others  in  the  district,  and,  I 
suppose,  about  as  dangerous  ? — A.  I  went  to  the  South  Mountains  about 
seven  years,  off  and  on  there  all  the  time.  They  considered  that  as  bad 
as  any  jilace  there  was  in  the  district.  I  never  did  consider  it  as  bad. 
The  place  where  they  call  it  the  Dark  Corners,  in  Polk  County,  I  always 
considered  worse  than  the  South  Mountains.  Uraham  County,  I  think, 
was  the  worst  county.     I  never  did  a  great  deal  of  work  in  Crraham. 

Cross-examined  by  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  You  say  you  nt^ver  had  any  ditticulty  as  United  States  uuirshal  in 
making  arrests  in  the  district  ? — A,  I  do  not  think  I  ever  did.  1  cannot 
remember  it  at  all. 

(}.  Did  you  ever  get  assistance  when  you  went  to  make  arrests? — A. 
Sometimes — very  often. 

if.  \)\d  you  find  it  necessary  to  demean  yourself  with  a  great  deal  of 
moderation  and  care? — A.  Yes,  sir;   1  did  so. 

Q.  You  lia<l  to  be  very  careiiil  ab<»ut  what  you  did,  and  the  language 
y«>n  used  ? — A.  Very,  indeed. 

(}.   \on  would  beiiave  yourself'^ — A.   Ves,  sir. 

<^>.  YiHi  would  shake  hands  with  the  i)eoi)le  and  be  \ cry  friendly  with 
them  ? — A.   ^'<'s,  sir. 

(}.  An<l  |)ala\'er  them' — A.  (ieiieiallv;  always  treated  them  very 
kindly. 

(}.  Did  .\()U  not  iiave  to  treat  them  with  liquor,  often  ask  them  to 
tak«',  a  drink '? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  have.  done,  that ;  very  often  asked  tliem  to 
take  a  drink. 

(}.   \'ou  found  thai  yon  had    to  b«'   exceedingly  circumspect   in  your 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  287 

couduct  and  language,  and  in  that  way  you  got  along  without  having 
any  particular  rapture? — A.  That  is  my  natural  manner  anyway. 

i).  Did  you  not  understand  others  had  diiliculty  if — A.  I  understood  so. 

Q.  Was  there  not  a  good  deal  of  difficulty  among  the  nuirshals,  some- 
times, in  making  arrests? — A.  What  locality  do  you  speak  ot? 

Q.  Anywheres. — A.  Sometimes  the  marshals  got  into  very  serious 
difficulty;  very  frequently. 

Q.  The  deputy  marshals? — A.  Yes,  sir;  the  deputy  marshals. 

Q.  Were  they  fired  upon,  shot,  and  sometimes  killed? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
there  have  been  some  men  killed. 

Q.  And  blood  shed? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Y^ou  did  not  get  into  any  of  these  troubles  yourself? — A.  Not  at 
all.     I  do  not  recollect  ever  having  a  quarrel  at  all  with  any  person. 

Q.  Would  you  consider  it  safe  to  have  had  a  quarrel  with  these  men? — A. 
No,  sir.  I  did  have  a  little  quarrel.  I  do  not  know  that  it  was  a  quar- 
rel, but  a  little  confusion,  up  at  a  public  speaking  in  the  South  Moun- 
tains. It  was  in  regard  to  the  revenue.  A  kind  of  ])olitical  speaking. 
I  did  not  have  very  much  trouble  myself  with  it. 

Q.  You  endeavored  so  far  as  you  could  to  avoid  all  quarrels  aiul  col- 
lisions?— A.  I  did,  indeed. 

Q.  You  say  that  the  South  Mountain  country  was  a  Republican  com- 
munity?— A.  I  so  understood  it;  most  of  the  men  I  had  dealings  with 
were  Republicans. 

Q.  Were  there  not  a  good  many  Democrats  there  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir;  some 
Democrats  in  a  portion  of  the  South  Mountains. 

Q.  Were  they  not  very  violent  ones ;  did  they  not  abuse  Republi- 
cans?— A.  1  cannot  say  as  to  that.  I  did  not  talk  politics  much  when 
I  was  on  duty. 

Q.  Did  you  think  it  safe  to  talk  politics  much  ? — A.  I  did  not  try  it ; 
I  had  something  else  to  do  always. 

Q.  Do  you  know  a  gentleman  of  the  name  of  Mr.  Mull  in  the  South 
Mountain  country? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  He  is  a  Democrat,  is  he  not? — A.  I  think  so,  sir. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Which  Mull? — A.  I  know  a  good  many  Mulls. 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  I  have  reference  to  Mr.  P.  M.  Mull. 

The  Witness.  1  am  very  well  acquainted  with  him. 

Q.  Then  there  is  Jacob  Mull. — A.  Jacob  Mull  ?     Yes,  sir. 

Q.  He  is  a  Democrat? — A.  Do  not  know,  sir;  do  not  know  his  poli- 
tics. 

Q.  Is  Peter  Mull  a  man  of  a  great  deal  of  influence  and  i^ower  in  that 
neighborhood  of  the  South  Mountains  ? — A.  I  think  he  is.  I  think  he 
has  got  some  influence  there  in  the  edge  of  Catawba  County. 

Q.  Do  you  know  that  he  lather  lords  it  over  the  Republicans  in  that 
community? — A.  I  do  not  know  that.  I  never  heard  very  much  of  the 
politics  down  in  that  part  of  the  country. 

Q.  Of  course  Mull  has  the  Democrats  of  that  community  at  his  back 
to  sustain  him? — A.  I  do  not  know,  sir;  I  suppose  so. 

Q.  You  s])oke  of  some  tobacco  being  taken  from  an  old  lady  by  the 
special  agents  of  the  Revenue  Department? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  do  not  mean  that  they  were  Dr.  Mott's  officers  ;  you  meant 
that  they  were  from  the  department  in  Washington  ? — A.  I  did  not  con- 
sider that  they  were  under  Dr.  Mott,  but  they  were  under  an  agent  by 
the  name  of  Wagoner. 


2<^^  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  lie  was  tlie  agent  of  tbe  (le])artnientat  Wasliiiigtoii,  was  lie  not ' — 
A.  I  do  not  know  bow  those  a<;ents  are  a]>pointe(l. 

The  Chairman.  He  was  a  si)eoial  agent,  though  ? 

Mr.  Pool.  I  want  to  show  tliey  were  acting  for  the  department,  and 
]iot  for  the  collector  of  the  district;  it  was  not  by  Dr.  ^Mott's  officers 
this  act  was  done? — A.  No,  sir;  Jiotthat  I  know  of.  They  were  special 
agents — at  least  controlled  by  sj^ecial  agents. 

().  Do  30U  know  whether  that  tobacco  was  rightfully  or  wrongfully 
seized  ? — A.  Only  my  opinion  about  it.  I  thought  it  was  wrongfully 
seized. 

Q.  Two  and  a  half  pounds,  you  think  ? — A.  Two  and  a  half  pounds. 
It  was  what  tobacco  was  in  the  old  lady's  loft. 

Q.  Did  you  think  that  aggravation  of  sufticient  magnitude  to  Justify 
them  tiring  into  the  officers  of  the  government? — A.  I  do  not  think  it 
was,  I  think,  though,  it  was  a  very  wrong  act :  but  I  thought  tlu're  was 
another  way  of  redress. 

(}.  You  do  not  think  two  and  a  half  pounds  of  tobacco,  taken  either 
accidentally  or  intentionally,  was  justification  for  firing  from  ambush 
upon  those  oflicers ! — A.  It  would  take  a  very  great  wrong  to  justify 
men  firing  on  a  squad  of  men. 

Q.  In  what  locality  of  the  district  was  that  firing  ? — A.  In  the  York 
settlement.  South  Mountains,  Burke  County. 

Q.  Do  ])olitical  speakers  go  into  that  section  and  make  their  speeches? 
— A.  I  think  so.  I  never  heard  but  one  speak  in  that  country.  I  never 
attend  i>ublic  speaking  while  on  duty. 

Q.  On  that  occasion  were  the  revenue  ofticers  denounced  ? — A.  I  think 
it  kind  of  divided  itself  into  two  sides  on  the  reven\ie.  They  did  not 
have  any  candidate  out  that  year  for  the  legislature,  only  the  Demo- 
cratic candidate. 

Q.  You  spoke  of  Mr.  Cobb  being  restored  to  the  service.  Do  you  not 
know  that  the  only  service  he  was  restored  to  was  that  of  a  raider"? 
— A.  What  was  called  a  special  deputy. 

Q.  .V  special  deputy  t — A.  That  was  what  I  understood.  A  raider  is 
a  special  deputy. 

Q.  What  is  the  duty  of  these  raiders ! — A.  Their  duty  is  to  go  around 
anil  break  up  illicit  distilleries  and  seize  illicit  tobacco  and  any  illi<.'ir. 
traffic  that  is  going  on. 

Q.  They  have  no  ])ecuniar3'  responsibility,  ha\ f  they — I  mean,  they  do 
not  liandle  the  money  of  the  government? — A.  I  thiidc  not,  sir. 

Q.  Tliey  are  cmi)loyed  as  a  sort  of  police  force  ? — A.  I  sup])0se  you 
may  term  it  that,  always,  of  special  deputies. 

0.  And  that  was  th(^  service  that  Mr.  Cobb  was  em])loyed  on.  A'oii 
S]K)Ue  of  the  em])Ioy)ucnt  of  Mr.  Herrn;  do  you  know  whether  he  was 
ever  employed  by  Dr.  jAlott  at  all? — A.  I  do  not. 

Q.  \'ou  said  he  was  emi)loyed  by  some  agents  as  a  special  guide? — 
A.  I  le  was  employ(!d  as  a  special  guide,  I  suppose,  by  some  of  the  special 
(lej)uties.     They  \('ry  often  emi)loy  S]»ecial  guides. 

(^.   Vuu  mean  on  their  raids? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.   Do  you  know  how  they  an;  paid  ? — A.  Which,  the  guides  ? 

().  V<*s.  —  A.  TIm'v  make  out  their  claim  on  l''orm  10  and  send  it  in  for 
service  r<Mideic(|.  so  man>  days  so  much  pay,  and  tlie  (b'])artment  pays 
them. 

<,>.    ^'oM  mejin  tliey  were  sent  in  to  the  dejiartiiient  at  Wasiiington  ? — 
A.  Sriii  ill  t<»  the  ofliee  of  tlie  coMector,  and  then  lie  si^ids  them  through' 
in  the  regular  eonrse,  like  an\'  otluM"  business;  don't  know  <'.\actly. 

(^,   I  <lo  not  iiinh-rstand  they  were  to  be  i»ai(I  unless  their  Jiccount  was 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  289 

iillowed  by  tlie  Couimissiouer  here  iu  Washington? — A.  I  do  not  know 
anything  abont  that. 

Q.  Was  Mr.  Herrn  a  coni])etent  person  in  that  country? — A.  He  is 
a  very  good  guide  for  dei)nty  marshals  to  liave  along. 

Q.  You  had  him  in  your  cmph)y  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  To  sliow  you  the  byways,  &c.? — A.  Sometimes  for  that  ])urpose. 
I  generally  took  one  person  with  me  most  of  the  time.  I  sometimes 
took  more. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  special  deputy  employed  him  in  the  revenue  ? — 
A.  I  do  not  know,  sir. 

Q.  All  you  know  is  what  Mr.  Herrn  told  you;  that  he  had  been  era- 
ployed  by  some  special  deplity? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  As  a  guide,  and  he  had  sent  in  some  accounts,  and  told  you  what 
the  amount  of  those  accounts  he  sent  iu  was? — A.  That  is  so;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  he  told  you  how  much  money  he  got  out  of  it? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  But  you  do  not  know  whether  he  told  you  the  truth  about  any  of 
it? — A.  I^^o,  sir;  I  do  not. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  These  men  searched  that  old  lady's  house,  did  they  not? — A.  If 
you  want  me  to  explain  just  the  way  of  it,  I  will  do  so.  The  party  and 
I  did  not  get  along  very  well  after  traveling  together  for  half  a  night. 
At  the  tirst  instance  they  arrested  a  man,  one  of  the  distillers,  where 
there  had  been  a  distillery  in  operation.  It  was  some  40  rods  from  the 
man's  house,  whose  name  was  Calvin  Settlemire.  We  went  there  to  his 
distillery  and  found  he  had  been  running  a  blockiade  distillery.  We 
rode  to  the  house,  but  I  had  no  warrant  for  Settlemire,  although  I  was 
a  deputy  marshal.  When  we  got  to  the  house  they  arrested  him  and 
I)ought  him  out,  and  wanted  me  to  take  charge  of  him.  I  told  them  I 
could  not  do  it. 

Q.  Why  ? — A.  I  had  no  warrant.  He  was  not  doing  anything,  only  at 
home  in  bed,  sleeping.  They  said  to  me  that  I  would  not  do  my  duty. 
I  said,  "  If  you  will  give  me  proper  authority,  I  will  do  it ;"  but  I  could 
not  afford  to  take  the  responsibility  of  taking  charge  of  Settlemire  ;  if  I 
had  pro])er  authority  that  I  would  take  charge  of  hiin.  They  said  to 
me  that  I  had  better  do  it.  I  said  I  would  see  about  it.  They  seemed 
to  be  rather  wild  about  it.  Presently  Settlemire  started  off.  I  saw  him 
Avalking  off,  and  I  did  not  try  to  stop  him,  as  I  had  no  authority  to 
stop  him.  They  did  not  like  it  much,  though  after  he  left  we  found 
some  whisky  in  a  little  house  close  to  his  house,  afterwards  proven  to 
be  only  four  gallons.  Then  we  afterwards  found  a  still  iu  the  cellar  of 
the  house.  They  took  it  out  and  cut  it  up,  and  afterwards  we  found  a 
cap  and  worm  in  a  little  well-house,  and  we  cut  np  the  cap  and  the 
worm,  and  went  on. 

Q.  They  arrested  him  before  that? — A.  Yes,  sir;  and  he  went  off. 
They  told  me  they  did  not  think  that  was  proper.  When  we  came  to 
York  settlement  we  found  a  large  distillery  in  operation,  close  to  Mr. 
James  York's,  with  two  large  stills,  and,  I  think,  about  30  hogsheads  of 
beer  and  over  50  bushels  of  corn-meal  in  the  still-house.  They  cut  that 
np  and  went  on  to  the  house,  and  asked  the  old  lady  to  get  breakfast. 
She  did  not  like  to  give  them  breakfast. 

Q.  Was  she  the  wife  of  the  man  who  owned  the  still  ? — A.  Xo,  his 
mother — the  man  supposed  to  own  it. 

Q.  You  went  to  her  house  and  asked  for  breakfast  ? — A.  And  she  did 
not  much  want  to  give  us  breakfast.  I  was  acquainted  with  her ;  I  had 
seized  some  stills  there  before;  and  I  told  her  we  would  like  to  get 
S.  Mis.  110 19 


290  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

breakfast,  ami  would  pay  her  for  it.  She  then  told  me  if  we  did  not 
meddle  with  anything  in  the  house  she  would  get  breakfast.  1  said 
"They  will  not  meddle  with  anything  unless  they  tlndsome  illicit  whisky." 
She  said,  "  They  can  have  all  they  tind  of  that."  Finally,  she  came  to 
me  and  told  me  those  men  had  gone  up  stairs,  into  the  loft.  They  went 
there  to  look  after  Avhisky.  1  went  up  there,  and  told  them  the  old 
lady  was  a  little  nervous,  and  asked  them  to  come  down.  They  sai<l 
they  had  found  some  blockade  tobacco  there.  That  is  exactly  the 
transaction  as  it  occurred. 

Q.  Had  they  any  right  to  search  that  old  lady's  house  without  a  search  - 
warrant  ? — A.  I  did  not  consider  that  they  had,  for  the  Constitution  of 
the  United  States  forbids  it. 

Q.  After  she  had  been  kiml  enough  to  give  them  breakfast,  on  condi- 
tion that  they  were  not  to  disturb  anything,  thentheygo  and  search,  and 
find  ont  2i  pounds  of  tobacco  belonging  to  the  old  lady  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  omitted  to  ask  you  a  question  or  two,  marked  down  here,  when 
yon  were  on  the  stand  before.  I  ask  you  if  you  know  anything  about  dis- 
tilleries being  divided — taking  one  tolerably-sized  one  and  making  two 
or  three  out  of  it,  as  the  case  may  bet — A.  No,,  sir;  I  do  not.  They 
were  so  divided,  I  so  understood,  that  some  men  ran  two  distilleries  of 
the  same  capacity. 

Q.  Do  you  knov\'  Tom  Garrison,  William  Garrison,  and  Marion  Huff- 
man ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Has  either  of  them  a  distillery  ? — A.  I  do  not  know,  sir.  I  under- 
stand there  were  some  distilleries  not  far  from  Morgantown.  I  under- 
stood they  were  Garrison's  distilleries. 

Q.  Were  there  more  than  one? — A.  I  think  thexe  were  three  :  but 
there  were  two  of  them,  Thomas  and  William  Garrison.  I  just  heard 
them  speaking  of  Garrison's  distillery.  I  understood  afterwards  that 
one  of  them  was  bonded. 

Q.  In  whose  name? — A.  In  the  name  of  Huffman. 

Q.  How  far  were  they  apart — Huffman's  and  Garrison's  f — A.  I  was 
at  two  of  them.  I  do  not  think  that  Garrison  has  got  a  bonded  distil- 
lery at  all.  I  cannot  tell ;  I  just  heard  talk  about  Garrison's  distilleries. 
It  seems  to  me  that  I  understood  a  man  by  the  name  of  Brittain  had  a 
distillery  there. 

Q.  Did  you  understand  that  Huffman's  distillery  really  belonged  to 
Garrison  ? — A.  I  generally  heard  it  spoken  of  as  Garrison's  distillery. 
That  is  all  I  know  about  it. 

Q.  ])oyou  know  Huffman  i)ersonallyf — A.  Yes,sir. 

Q.  Did  he  have  the  means  to  run  a  distillery? — A.  I  think  not.  He 
might  have  the  means  to  run  a  distillery.  I  had  an  execution  against 
him  for  forfeiture.  He  had  been  down  to  court  and  had  forfeited  his 
bond. 

(i.  Do  you  know  how  close  together  the  distilleries  were  that  were 
called  Garrison's  and  Huffman's? — A.  I  thiidc  probably  a  mile;  may  be 
not  as  far  as  that,  but  something  like  that — the  two  I  was  at. 

(^.  Do  you  know  who  were  the  storekeepers  at  these  two  distilleries  ? 
— A.  I  thiidv  there  was  a  ]Mr.  (iudger. 

(^.  Ml'.  (Judg<'i- Avas  storekeeix'r  for  which  one? — A.  f  could  not  say 
positively.  He  was  stor('kee]K'rat  one  of  these  distilleries,  but  1  cannot 
say  wliicii  one. 

Q.  Was  there  a  irian  by  the  namcof  Tatterson  a  storekeeper? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  Mr.  Patterson. 

i).  lM)r  which  one f — A.  i  think  he  was  storekeeper  for  Huffman.  I 
am  not  positive,  though. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  291 

Q.  Wliat  kin  was  Patterson,  storekeeper,  to  Garrison  ? — A,  1  uiidci- 
staiid  that  Mr.  (larrison  is  uncle  to  Mr.  Patterson. 

Q.  Wliat  kin  is  Mr.  (in(Ii;er"?— A.  To  Mr.  (ianison  ? 

i).  Yes.  sir. — A.  Mr.  Gu(l<;er  married  William  Patterson's  sister. 

Q.  Do  yon  know  whether  Mr.  (ludger  kei)t  store  for  (Jarrison,  Ilnti- 
mau,  or  IWittain  ? — A.  I  cannot  tell;  1  think  Giid^er  Avas  storekeeper 
for  Jirittain.  I  think  William  Patterson  was  storekeeper  for  Iluffnian, 
and  Mr.  Newt.  ITallyburton  was  storekeeper  for  ^Alr.  Garrison;  at  least 
I  understood  it  was  Garrison.  Sometimes  you  understand  a  distillciy 
belongs  to  a  man,  it  goes  by  one  name,  and  it  turns  out  to  belong  to 
somebody  else. 

Q.  Who  was  the  United  States  commissioner  there  ? — A.  J.  T.  Pat- 
terson. 

Q.  What  kin  was  he  to  the  storekeeper? — A.  The  father  of  William 
Patterson. 

Q.  And  father-in-law  to  Gudger,  the  other  storekeeper? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  \"ou  say  it  was  the  impression  that  Garrison  was  really  the  owner 
of  the  distilleries  ? — A.  I  so  thought  for  a  while,  but  sometime  after 
became  informed  that  it  was  the  other  way. 

Q.  Which  way  f — A.  They  were  in  the  name  of  Brittaiu  and  Huftnian. 

By  ]\rr.  Pool  : 

(}.  Y^ou  spoke  of  the  men  that  took  that  tobacco  out  of  the  old  lady's 
house,  and  their  conduct  in  arresting  Mr.  Settlemire.  Who  were  these 
men  f — A.  The  man  in  charge  of  them  was  named  J^renhalt ;  I  under- 
stood he  was  from  New  Y^ork ;  and  a  man  by  the  name  of  Kyle.  1  do 
not  know  where  he  was  from. 

Q.  Were  they  strangers  in  Xorth  Carolina"? — A.  Y^es,  so  fiir  as  I 
know. 

Q.  Do  you  know  that  they  were  sent  out  from  Washington  by  the 
Washington  authorities  '? — A.  I  do  not  know  b}' what  authority.  They 
Avere  understood  to  be  revenue  agents. 

Q.  From  the  commissioner  here? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  understood  that 
Wagoner  is  a  revenue  agent,  and  these  men  were  subordinates  for  the 
revenue  agent.  He  is  not  under  Dr.  Mott,  and  I  do  not  supi)ose  they 
were. 

Adjourned  until  July  13,  10  a.  m. 


Washington,  D.  C.,  July  13,  1SS2. 
The  committee  met  at  10  o'clock  a.  m. 
General  Green  B.  Raum,  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue,  sworn. 

Examined  in  behalf  of  Dr.  Mott  by  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  Y^ou  reside  in  the  city  of  Washington  for  the  present  ? — 
Answer.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  Y^ou  are  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue  ? — A. 
Since  August  2, 1876. 

Q.  The  sixth  collection  district  in  North  Carolina  is  under  investi- 
gation, and  I  want  to  ask  you  to  state  to  the  committee  what  is  your 
opinion  and  judgment  of  the  admiinstration  of  Dr.  Mott,  the  former  col- 
lector in  that  district. — A.  J.  J.  Mott  was  collector  of  internal  revenue 
at  the  time  I  took  charge  of  the  office  as  Commissioner  of  Internal  Rev- 
enue ;  I  found  his  district,  like  that  of  almost  all  the  districts  in  the 
Southern  States,  tilled  with  illicit  distillers,  and  a  great  many  frauds  in 


292  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUK    IN 

the  manufacture  and  sale  of  tobacco  and  whisky  were  carried  on.  TIktc 
seemed  to  be  a  spirit  of  opposition  to  tlie  laws  and  to  tiieir  enforcement. 
The  illicit  distillers  were  particularly  diflicult  to  handle,  as  they  combined 
from  time  to  time  to  resist  the  oflic(!rs  and  to  prevent  them  from  enforcing 
the  laws. 

Q.  Was  this  sixth  collection  district  one  of  the  Avorst  ? — A.  The  sixth 
collection  district  was  enlarged  after  I  became  Commissioner,  by  the 
consolidation  of  the  seventh  with  it.  The  seventh  district  comprised 
the  west  end  of  North  Carolina,  and  the  two  combined  made  one  of  the 
worst  districts  in  the  country.  I  do  not  say  it  was  the  worst.  I  think 
that  the  second  Georgia,  the  fifth  Tennessee,  the  northern  part  of  South 
Carolina,  and  the  fifth  North  Carolina  were  almost,  if  not  quite,  as  bad. 

Q.  It  was,  however,  one  of  the  very  worst  in  the  country  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  AVas  it  not  a  very  large  district  ? — A.  It  is  now  comi)osed  of  thirty- 
four  counties,  lying  west  of  the  Yadkin  Eiver. 

Q.  Have  you  any  idea  of  the  extent  of  country  it  covers  ? — A.  Well, 
it  constitutes  not  quite  one-half  in  territory  and  almost  one-half  in 
length  of  the  State  of  North  Carolina. 

Q.  Nearly  300  miles? — A.  It  must  be  very  nearly  300  miles.  The 
policy  of  my  predecessor  did  not  seem  to  be  to  establish  a  permanent 
system  of  repression,  and  suitable  means  had  not  been  i)rovided  to  over- 
come the  formidable  resistance  which  had  grown  uj*  in  that  and  other 
districts.  After  looking  into  the  matter  carefully,  I  became  satisfied  that 
the  only  way  to  suppress  frauds  there  was  to  array  against  the  wrong- 
doers a  force  which  would  be  suflicient  to  overcome  their  resistance,  and 
I  directed  in  various  communications  the  collector  to -employ  the  neces- 
sary force  to  overcome  this  resistance.  I  stationed  in  that  district  the 
most  experienced  and  courageous  revenue  agents  to  assist,  by  co-operat- 
ing with  the  collector  in  the  enforcement  of  the  laws.  It  was  fouuil  that 
there  were  so  many  persons  engaged  in  defrauding  the  government  that 
to  bring  everybody  to  punishment  who  was  guilty  would  involve  so 
large  a  portion  of  the  poi>ulation  that  it  would  be  quite  impi-acticable 
to  do  it.  After  consultation  with  the  collector,  whom  I  found  to  be 
a  man  of  good  judgment,  a  fixed  policy  was  adopted  of  dealing  with 
tiiese  offenders,  and  it  was  not  confined  to  that  district,  but  was  made 
a  general  s\  stem  in  all  the  infected  districts.  The  i)lan  was,  first,  by 
vigorous  measures,  to  force  violators  of  the  law  to  the  wall,  so  to  speak, 
and  then  after  they  had  become  satislied  of  the  determination  of  the 
go\ernment  and  its  ability  to  enforce  the  laws,  and  had  manifested  a 
(lisposition  to  make  ])eace  with  the  government,  to  extend  to  them 
leniency,  on  such  conditions  as  should  ai)peal  to  the  best  side  of  their 
nature,  so  as  to  induce  them  to  cease  committing  frauds  and  resisting 
the  ollicers,  and  to  observe  the  laws  and  assist  in  establishing  a  public 
sentiment  favorable  to  their  enfor(;ement.  In  all  this  work,  which  was 
a  work  of  time,  for  you  cannot  revolutionize  a  ])ublic  sentiment  so 
well  settled  as  tliat  in  a  day — it  takes  years  of  patient  labor — I  found 
ColU'ctor  Mott  not  only  earnestly  devoted  to  the  work,  but  an  exceed- 
ingly energetic  man,  and  possessing  all  the  necessary  (lualilieations  of 
mind  and  will  to  carry  out  the  instructions  that  wei'e  gi\-en  him.  The 
su|»|iiession  of  illicit  distilling,  as  I  ha\'e  said,  was  not  contined  to  that 
dist  liet,  but  it  was  a  general  system,  and  at  times  armed  forces  were 
organized,  extending  from  Wheeling,  W.  \'a.,  almost  to  the  (Julf  of 
.Me.\i<'o,  mo\ing  simnllaneoiisiy,  and  C()-opcrat  ing  for  a  month  or  two  at 
a  time  lor  the  suppression  of  theses  frauds.  Oiu'  serious  diriiculty  was 
(he  insiiHicieneN  of  the  a|>pro]niations.     The  operations  of  the  govern- 


THE    SIXTH    DISTKICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  293 

ineiit  were  spasmodic,  not  contiiinons,  for  (lie  want  of  inoiiey.  After 
tlie  spirit  of  tlie  illicit  distillers  had  been  pretty  well  broken,  I  in;ins'ii- 
rated  a  system  oi'  encourai;iiig'  the  establishment  of  snmll  lejial  distil- 
leries in  all  the  illicit-distillint;-  districts,  believin.ii'  that  the  jK'ople  who 
were  in  the  habit  of  makinji-  distilled  spirits  wonld  either  make  them 
lawfully  or  unlawfully,  and  I  tlion,<>ht  it  was  better  to  authorize  small 
licensed  distilleries,  even  tlioni;h  the  government  should  <;etoidy  tiveor 
ten  dollars  a  day  from  them  rather  than  to  have  continual  turmoil 
and  confusion  in  trying  to  suppress  illicit  distillation.  That  system 
originated  in  my  ofltice,  and  letters  were  written  to('ollector.Arott,  simong 
others,  to  enter  upon  the  work  of  encouraging  the  old  distillers  to  estab- 
lish lawful  distilleries. 

Q.  Yon  mean  old  illicit  distillers? — A.  I  donot  say  old  illicit  distillers; 
of  course,  some  of  them  Avere  illicit  distillers,  but  many  of  them  were  citi- 
zens who  were  tainiliar  with  the  business;  but,  at  all  events,  he  encour- 
aged theestablishmeTit  of  legal  distilleries  throughout  his  district.  Now, 
the  result  of  all  that  has  been  that  the  district  has  been  lifted  u])  from 
the  attitude  of  fraud  and  resistance  to  anthorit;s'  into  an  observance  of 
the  law;  and  ofticers  now  can  ride  from  one  end  of  his  district  to  the 
other,  without  danger  of  being  bushwacked  ;  whereas,  live  years  ago,  a 
private  citizen  passing  through  that  country,  with  "store  "  clothes  on, 
and  who  was  unknown  to  the  people,  was  in  danger  of  being  suspected 
as  a  revenue  ofticer  and  shot  at.  I  state  without  any  hesitation  that 
Dr.  jNlott's  administration  has  been  eminently  snccessful.  He  has  had 
a  very  difticult  district  to  deal  with. .  He  has  had  to  select  ofticers  from 
uneducated  people,  because  it  is  well  understood  in  the  western  district 
of  North  Carolina,  the  people  are  not  as  highly  educated  as  in  some  other 
portions  of  the  same  State.  Here  and  there  have  been  frauds  committed 
by  the  officers,  and  sometimes,  I  h  ive  no  doubt,  there  have  been  excesses 
of  authority,  bnt  taking  the  district  as  a  whole — and  I  judge  it  in  that 
way — the  improvement  is  very  nuirked;  and  the  whole  of  it  has  been 
brought  about  by  the  administration,  skillful  judgment,  and  integrity  of 
Dr.  ]\[ott.  And  I  make  this  statement  without  any  i)artisan  bias  in  his 
favor,  but  simply  as  an  officer  who  has  watched  his  course  for  six  years, 
and  feels  that  he  is  entitled  to  the  approbation  of  the  government  for 
the  manner  in  which  he  has  administered  the  office. 

Q.  This  establishment  of  stills  of  small  capacity  resulted  in  an  increase 
of  the  expenses  of  the  collection  of  the  revenue  ? — A.  Necessarily. 

Q.  And  as  a  matter  of  percentage  that  expense  would  be  much  larger 
than  it  had  been  before  ? — A.  As  a  matter  of  course,  if  yon  establish 
500  small  distilleries,  where  the  capacity  ranges  from  live  to  ten  bushels 
of  grain  i^er  day,  and  put  a  storekeeper  at  each  of  them  at  -$4  a  day, 
while  yon  will  increase  the  collections  in  the  district  and  the  govern- 
ment will  actually  make  money  by  the  operation,  yet,  still,  it  will  neces- 
sarily result  in  a  large  increase  of  the  expenditure  for  collecting  the 
revenue.  That  subject  was  thoroughly  considered  by  me  before  I  direct- 
ed the  encouragement  of  the  establishment  of  these  snmll  distilleries. 
I  thought  that  as  a  choice  between  a  system  which  would  result  in  secur- 
ing some  revenne  peacefully  and  quietly,  and  a  system  which  was  pro- 
ductive of  fraud,  resistance  to  law,  and  bloodshed,  I  could  not  hesitate. 
And  taking  the  resnlt  in  all  these  districts,  from  oneeud  of  the  country 
to  the  other,  to-day  I  can  say  we  have  a  peaceful  observance  of  the  law 
as  a  result  of  this  system  of  administration. 

It  is  fair  for  me  to  say  in  this  connection  that  this  subject  has  been 
constantly  brought  to  the  attention  of  Congress  in  my  official  reports, 
and  I  have  time  and  again  discussed  the  subject  with  both  committees 


294  COLLECTION    OF    LXTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

of  Congress  on  ai)i)ro]»iiations,  and  the  wliolo  thing  has  been  done  on 
the  approbation  of  the  Secretary  of  the  Tn^asury. 

Q.  Did  the  system  meet  with  disfavor  from  the  committees  of  Con- 
gress?— A.  Tbey  have  always  appropriated  the  money,  and  there  has 
been  no  legislation  looking  to  the  abrogation  of  the  system.  Tlie  fact  is, 
it  stands  as  a  law,  fur  a  man  has  a  vested  right  nnder  the  law  to  estab- 
lish distilleries  of  this  kind. 

Q.  A  good  deal  has  been  said  abont  the  very  large  ineroase  in  the  ex- 
penses of  that  district,  -$05,000,  1  thiidv,  was  the  snm  named  by  some  of 
the  witnesses  examined,  as  being  expended  in  ISSO,  or  along  there.  If 
yon  can  say  anything  on  that  snbject,  I  wish  yon  would  state  it. — A.  1 
can  turn  to  my  report  and  show  the  whole  o])erations  during  the  ditter- 
eut  years.  You  will  understand  from  what  I  have  already  staled  that 
when  we  got  this  system  in  motion  there  would  be  two  sources  of  ex- 
penditure. One  would  be  for  the  em])loyment  of  men  to  (continue  the 
work  of  repiTSsing  illicit  distilling,  the  other  for  the  em[)loyment  of 
storekeepers  and  gangers  at  the  small  registered  distilleries  established. 
I  deemed  it  necessary  to  keep  up  a  very  considerable  force  of  men  over 
that  territory  to  police  from  i)lace  to  place  in  scpiads  of  from  5  to  10  or 
15  men,  as  tlie  necessity  might  be,  so  as  to  prevent  the  re-establislnnent 
of  the  illicit  distilleries  that  had  been  broken  up.  Then,  as  these  legal 
distilleries  were  started,  their  establishment  involved  the  necessity  of 
appointing  storekeepers  and  gangers  to  be  assigned  to  them,  and,  of 
course,  that  wouhl  increase  the  exj^enditures;  but  it  iimst  be  kei)t  in 
view  tliat  while  the  expenditure  has.  largely  increased,  the  revenue  has 
largely  increased  also,  and  no  distillery  was  ever  started  that  did  not 
l)ay  its  way. 

Q.  It  was  alleged  in  the  public  prints,  and  I  do  not  know  but  upon 
the  stum])  by  speakers,  that  officers  collecting  the  revenue  in  that  dis- 
trict would  send  what  they  pleased  here  to  Washington  and  keep  the 
balance,  and  appropriate  it  to  their  own  uses  or  to  political  purposes. 
Was  it  possible  for  that  to  be  done  I — A.  The  great  bnlk  of  the  taxes 
collected  through  the  internal  revenue  system  is  received  from  the  sale 
of  stamps.  When  you  collect  a  thousand  dollars,  it  means  you  have 
sold  about  se\'en  thousand  stamps.  The  only  taxes  that  are  collected 
otherwise  are  upon  assessment  lists.  These  consist  of  taxes  on  banks, 
l)enalties  inllicted,  »!vc.,  but  such  assessments  would  constitute  a  very 
small  percentage  of  the  taxes  that  were  collected  in  Dr.  Mott's  distri(;t. 
If  a  n)an  establishes  a  distillery  and  gives  a  bond,  a  storekeeper  is 
assigned,  and  the  operations  of  that  distillery  are  conducted  so  as  to 
finally  get  the  whisky  into  the  government  warehouse.  It  cannot  come 
ont  of  that  warehouse  except  by  payment  of  the  taxes  (and  those  taxes 
are  i)aid  by  the  purchase  of  stamps),  unless  it  is  stolen,  and,  in  that 
<;as«*,  the  government  has  a  claim  upon  the  bond,  and  that  is  pursued 
in  the  courts. 

(}.  I  undcu'stand  thai  lli<'  collections  are  paid  into  the  Treasury  here, 
and  not  into  your  oflice  ? — A.  Not  into  my  ol'lice.  They  are  deposited 
from  day  to  day. 

(.}.  Deposited  here  ' — A.  No;  the  system  is  to  have  the  c(>lleetor  de- 
l»osit  in  a  goNcrninent  depository.  There  is  a  government  <lei»ository 
at  lialeigh.  I)i'.  Molt  deposite*!  there.  The  Secretary  of  the  Treasury 
is  aMthori/.ed  by  law  to  establish  United  States  depositories  at  national 
Itaiiks  wheic  they  <ieposit.  the  necessary  bonds  Ibi- security,  and  those 
depositoiies  are  sctatlered  all  o\'er  the  country. 

i).  The  expenses  ol'  tlu^  <listrict  are,  not  ])aid  out  of  that  sum  before  it 
goes  into  tlie  Tieasury  '! — A.  The  law  i(>(iuires  that  all  the  (;ollections 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  295 

shall  bo  put  into  the  Treasury,  and  that  the  expenses  shall  be  drawn 
out  of  the  Treasury  and  disbursed  by  the  collector. 

15y  Senator  Mitchell: 
Q.  ITnder  the  terms  of  his  l)ond  is  he  not  required  to  deposit  his  col- 
lections ? — A.  Oh,  yes  ;  that  is  the  law,  and  the  regulations,  and  the 
bond. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

(}.  The  expenses  of  the  district  are  allowed  by  the  bureau  here  ui)on 
allowances  adjusted  l>y  30U,  are  they  not? — A.  Yes,  sir;  under  the 
law,  the  Secretary  of  the  Treasury,  upon  the  recommendation  of  the 
Commissioner  of  Interinil  IvCA'enue,  nnikes  an  allowance  fixinj;'  the  sala- 
ries of  all  the  subordinate  olhcers.  A  monthly  estimate,  coverin<>' the 
amount  of  these  salaries,  is  made  by  the  collector  and  forwarded  to  my 
office.  I  make  a  requisition  for  a  draft  to  cover  that  monthly  exi»endi- 
ture,  and  the  draft  is  issued  in  favor  of  the  collector  of  internal  revenue 
and  it  is  forwarded  to  him,  and  of  course  is  passed  to  his  credit  in  the 
bank  where  he  has  his  deposits. 

Q.  It  was  simply  to  negative  the  idea  put  abroad  that  they  paid 
these  ex])euses  from  the  money  collected  along? — A.  That  was  the  case 
many  years  ago,  but  it  has  not  been  the  case  for  a  considerable  length 
of  time. 

Q.  How  long  is  it  since  the  law  was  changed  in  that  respect? — A. 
The  change  in  the  law  in  this  respect  went  into  effect  the  1st  of  Julv, 
1805. 

Q.  It  has  been  given  in  evidence  here  that  the  storekeepers  and  gan- 
gers frequently  assist  distillers,  who  are  ignorant  men,  as  is  shown  in 
most  instances,  in  making  up  their  attcounts,  and  rendering  them  assist- 
ance in  their  V)usiiiess,  and  that  sometimes  they  would  complain  of  the 
storekeeper,  that  he  would  not  do  that,  making  a  complaint  to  the  col- 
lector, and  asking  for  changes ;  an<l  it  has  been  shown  that  Dr.  Mott 
sometimes  ^ould  favor,  as  well  as  he  could  consistently  with  the  law, 
the  distillers,  and  comply  with  their  wishes  in  some  respects.  Was  that 
good  policy?  Was  it  proper? — A.  I  have  no  doubt  that  many  of  the 
distillers  in  his  district  were  uneducated  men.  It  is  the  duty  of  a  store- 
keeper to  keep  an  account  of  the  grain,  to  take  in  all  the  operations  of 
the  distillery,  and  to  make  a  monthly  report  of  these  things  to  the  col- 
lector and  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue.  It  is  highly  probable  that 
the  storekeepers  at  times  prepared  papers  of  some  descri])tion  for  the  dis- 
tiller— their  notices  of  suspension  or  applications  for  the  withdrawal 
of  their  spirits,  or  something  of  that  kind.  There  is  no  impropriety  in 
it,  although  in  large  establishments  the  business  is  directed  entirely  by 
the  owners  of  the  distilleries  themselves.  It  is  an  organized  business, 
and  they  attend  to  their  owu  part  of  it. 

Q.  You  mean  in  such  large  establishments  as  those  out  West? — A. 
Oh,  yes,  in  various  parts  of  the  country. 

Q.  Some  of  these  establishments  distill  about  as  much  as  all  of  Xortli 
Carolina? — A.  Yes,  sir;  we  have  some  very  large  distilleries  in  Ohio, 
Indiana,  and  Illinois. 

Q.  There  are  none  such  in  the  sixth  district  of  IS'orth  Carolina? — A. 
Oh,  no;  25  or  30  bushels  is  the  largest  distillery  in  that  district. 

Q.  What  is  the  ca])acity  of  some  of  the  Western  distilleries  ? — A.  Five 
thousand  V)ushels  a  day. 

Q.  1  am  speaking,  of  course,  of  the  sixth  collection  district  of  Xortli 
Carolina. — A,  These  are  all  suudl  establishments. 

Q.  And  you  wanted  to  encourage  the  establishment,  and  to  encour- 


296  COLLECTION    OP    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

age  the  men  in  running-  that  kind  of  stills? — A.  I  state<l  to  Dr.  Mott, 
and  to  all  the  other  collectors  in  conversation,  and  1  have  no  doubt  in 
"writing-,  that  it  was  desirable  that  the  interests  of  these  men  should 
be 

Q.  You  mean  the  distillers? — A.  Yes;  that  the  distillers  should  be 
properly  instructed  in  respect  to  the  operations  of  their  distilleries,  so 
as  to  have  them  avoid  what  is  kno^vn  as  "  deficiency  liabilities."  A  dis- 
tiller running  a  little  concern,  who  happens  to  fall  behind  three  or  four 
gallons  a  day,  has  to  pay  extra  taxes  in  the  way  of  defi(;iency  assess- 
ments, and  would  soon  suffer  in  his  business;  and  knowing  that  they 
might  be  in  danger  of  that  unless  their  business  w\^s  properly  watched, 
I  have  always  instructed  collectors,  in  talking  with  them,' that  they 
should  have  intelligent  men  appointed  at  these  distilleries  who  would 
watch  not  only  the  interest  of  the  government,  but  the  interest  of  the 
tax-payer;  because  an  officer  would  receive  my  disapprobation  if  he  did 
not  as  well  watch  the  interests  of  the  tax-payer  as  those  of  the  govern- 
ment. 

Q.  A  good  deal  has  been  said  about  some  rumors  in  the  district  that 
storekeepers  were  in  the  habit  of  dividing  their  pay  with  the  distillers. — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  I  have  talked  that  subject  over  with  Dr.  Mott  a  dozen  times, 
and  he  expressed  an  apprehension  that  in  some  cases  it  was  probably 
true,  and  the  subject  of  preventing  that  abuse  was  as  earnestly  discussed 
with  me,  by  Collector  Mott,  as  by  any  other  man  in  the  service ;  and 
finally  I  recommended  the  reduction  of  the  salaries  as  a  means  of  getting 
at  it,  and  as  we  had  a  deliciency  staring-  us  in  the  face  I  reduced  their 
salaries  from  $4  to  $3  per  day  in  establishments  that  operated  with  less 
than  twenty  bushels  of  grain  per  day. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Give  the  date  when  that  was,  and  as  you  go  on. — A.  I  think  it  was 
in  April  of  last  year.  I  will  state  that  it  was  April  of  last  year,  with 
the  privilege  of  correcting  it. 

Q.  April,  1881!— A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Did  you  make  diligent  efforts  to  find  out  some  instances  where  there 
had  been  some  division,  in  order  to  punish  the  offenders  ? — A.  I  had  my 
agents  looking  after  that.  It  is  a  very  difH(;ult  thing  to  detect — a  thing 
of  that  kind.  Presuming-  that  the  distillery  was  operating  according  to 
law  and  there  was  no  fraud  in  conducting  the  business,  it  would  be  a 
difficult  thing  to  ascertain  whether  a  storekeeper  gave  the  distiller  one 
dollar  or  two  dollars  a  day  out  of  liis  pay.  These  distilleries  were  often 
located  in  obscure  an<l  inaccessible  places;  the  storekeei)ers  were  com- 
pelled to  board  with  the  distillers — to  take  their  meals  and  lodging  with 
them;  and  some  of  the  agents  re])orted,  1  think,  eitlier  verbally  or  in 
■writing,  tliat,  in  theii-  oi)inion,  in  many  instances  the  distillers  availed 
themselves  of  that  advantage  and  were  charging  them  very  big  prices 
for  the  aeeoMinKxlatioMs,  and  1  ])resunie  that  was  the  ease. 

Q.  That  is,  the  distiller  would  use  his  advantage,  being  out  in  an  iso- 
lated locality,  to  make  as  niiu-li  out  of  the  necessities  of  the  storekeeper 
as  he  could,  as  lu^  had  to  lutard  soinew  hei'e  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  do  not  pre- 
tend to  say  that  was  the  case,  though  1  th'u\k  it  is  highly  ]>robable  that 
Kome  i>l'  these  storekeepers  did  di\ide  their  ])ay  with  the  distillers. 

().  J'.iit  you  ha\<'  not  heard  of  an  instance,  of  it,  liave  you? — A.  I 
tltought  I  had  loiiiMphat  out  in  the  r)th  district. 

(}.  r.ut  in  the  Oth  ?— A.  I  do  not  recollect  that  Ave  did  in  the  Oth.  I 
]>ut  in  writing,  and  ijioic  lre(|iientl,\  by  word  of  mouth,  a  warning  to  all 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  297 

the  collectors  in  these  districts,  "I^'ow  you  are  dealing  with  a  lot  of  iiioii 
who  have  been  in  the  habit  of  defraudino-  the  ft'overninent  by  operating 
illicit  distilleries,  and  it  is  not  to  be  snpposed  that  their  sentiments  were 
revolutionized  in  a  minute,  and  yon  mnst  watcii  and  see  that  they  do 
not  defraud  the  government  through  the  means  of  a  legal  distillery/' 
We  have  been  struggling  to  prevent  that.  To  a  very  large  extent  the 
people  who  operate  these  distilleries  are  doing  so  honestly. 

Q.  Of  course,  that  ai>plies  to  the  (!th  district  as  well  as  to  others? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  and  then  there  is  this  nnirvelous  improvement — that  tlu'y  are 
0}>erating  peacefully,  and  there  is  a  growing  sentiment  among  the  i)eo- 
l)le  in  that  district  in  favor  of  the  observance  and  enforcement  of  the 
laws. 

Q.  DidDr.Mott  diligently  carry  out  yourinstructionsin  thatrespect '? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  1  think  he  did. 

Q.  Are  you  able  to  speak  of  the  personnel  and  character  of  the  sub- 
ordinates of  Dr.  Mott  in  that  district  ? — A.  I  have  never  visited  Dr. 
Mott's  district  in  person. 

Q.  I  mean  from  the  reports. — A.  I  am  not  personally  acquainte<l  with 
many  of  his  subordinates.  I  have  a  system  of  inspections,  and  his  ofh- 
cers  have  been  inspected  from  time  to  time  and  reported  ujxtn,  and  con- 
sidering the  remarks  I  made  a  moment  ago  in  respect  to  the  education 
of  the  people,  they  rank  very  well,  and  his  officers  are  a  very  good 
force.  Dr.  Mott's  oftice  ranks  first  class  ;  that  is,  in  the  manner  in  which 
the  business  was  prosecuted  at  the  ofiice.  The  books  were  well  kept; 
the  business  was,  in  the  main,  very  promptly  attended  to,  the  moneys 
were  promptly  deposited,  the  collections  promptly  made,  and  all  that^ 
so  his  office  is  ranked  as  a  first-class  oftice. 

Q.  You  have  spoken  several  times  of  agents;  I  would  like  it  to  go 
upon  the  record  exactly  as  to  who  these  agents  are. — A.  An  internal- 
revenue  agent  means  an  officer  sent  out  from  the  department  here  at 
WashingtoM.  A  revenue  agent  is  an  oiticer  who  is  appointed  by  the 
Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue  to  jjerform  such  duties  as  may  be  re- 
quired of  him  by  the  Commissioner. 

Q.  They  were  not  under  Dr.  Mott,  the  collector,  at  all? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  And  if  they  should  be  guilty  of  any  mistake,  or  of  any  im]»roper 
conduct,  the  collector  was  not  to  be  at  all  responsible? — A.  The  collect- 
or is  not  responsible  for  the  conduct  of  an  agent;  the  agent  is  an  em- 
ploye of  the  office. 

Q.  Of  your  office? — A.  Yes;  he  is  the  eyes,  and  ears,  and  hands  of 
the  Commissioner. 

Q.  J  ask  you  that  question  because  there  have  been  some  attacks 
made  on  those  agents  in  several  instances, — A.  Well,  they  are  men, 
and  they  are  very  likely  to  err,  bnt  as  a  rule  they  are  very  good  men. 

Q.  They  make  their  reports  to  yon? — A.  Almost  daily. 

Q.  Are  they  required  to  report  everything  they  hear — rumor  and 
everything  of  that  kind? — A.  Thej'  are  required  to  report  all  violations^ 
of  law  Vv^hich  they  discover,  and  irregularities  which  amount  to  enough 
to  be  noticed. 

Q.  You  mean  if  they  suspected,  or  hear  of  any,  that  they  would  re])ort 
that  to  you  for  further  investigation  ? — A.  My  system  is  to  have  a  num- 
ber of  districts  grouped  together,  and  I  put  a  man  there  as  an  agent 
over  a  division,  and  he  is  there  to  perform  such  duties  as  he  is  instineted 
to  perform  in  the  manual  of  general  instructions,  and  by  special  in- 
structions from  time  to  time.  If  he  hears  rumors  of  fraud,  it  is  his  busi- 
ness to  go  and  investigate  them  instantly,  or  as  soon  as  he  can  ;  and 
then  if  he  finds  a  fraud,  to  rei>ort  it. 


298  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Have  yoa  iiot  frequently  had  them  to  report  fraiuLs  or  irregiUar- 
ities  which,  upon  thorough  investigation,  turned  out  to  be  mistakes? — 
A.  That  question  is  so  general  that  I  could  scarcely  give  a  proi)er  answer 
to  it. 

Q.  I  do  not  know  about  your  officers;  have  you  not  reports  frequently 
come  to  your  office  of  irregularities  which,  upon  investigation,  were 
susceptible  of  explanation,  and  turned  out  not  to  be  as  reported  ? — A. 
That  of  course  will  happen  sometimes  in  every  office,  however,  and  the 
agent  may  report  irregularities  of  an  officer,  and  upon  further  investi- 
gation of  the  subject  it  may  be  found  that  the  recommendations  that 
are  made  by  the  agent  may  be  too  severe,  and  they  are  not  always  fol- 
lowed. I  liave  made  it  an  invariable  rule  not  to  act  upon  the  report  of 
an  agent  as  to  the  dereliction  of  a  subordinate  officer  in  a  collector's 
district  without  referring  the  report,  either  in  full  or  in  substance,  to 
the  collector  for  his  examination.  A  collector  of  internal  revenue  is  an 
officer  created  by  law,  who  is  appointed  by  the  President  and  confirmed 
by  the  Senate.  He  gives  a  bond  of  ^lOO,!)!)*),  and  the  law  imposes  upon 
him  the  performance  of  grave  duties,  and  he  is  subject  to  pains  and 
penalties  if  he  makes  false  reports  to  the  Internal  Eevenue.  And  the 
duty  of  enforcing  the  laws  is  devolved  upon  him,  and  I  have  felt  that 
-although  I  may  have  an  intelligent  agent  to  make  an  investigation  of 
an  officer,  say,  of  a  storekeeper  and  ganger,  or  deputy  collector,  and  an 
unfavorable  report  may  be  made  ui>on  that  man — I  say  I  have  felt  it 
my  duty  to  refer  that  to  the  collector,  and  have  him  investigate  it  and 
report,  and  then  base  my  action  upon  all  the  facts  as  they  appear.  I 
have  pursued  that  course  with  Dr.  Mott,  as  collector,  as  I  have  with  all 
the  other  collectors  in  the  United  States. 

Q.  These  agents  sometimes  report  upon  a  collector  himself,  do  they 
aiot  ? — A.  They  are  required  to  report  every  officer  and  every  tax-payer 
that  tliey  tlnd  derelict. 

Q.  Aud  if  they  should  report  irregularities  upon  a  collector,  you  would 
investigate  it  thoroughly,  would  you  not? — A.  Oh,  yes;  I  have  often 
.sent  out  from  my  office  tlie  deputy  commissioner,  the  chief  clerk,  or  the 
chief  of  the  revenue  agents  to  do  tliis. 

Q.  There  was  an  instance  in  this  sixth  distinct  relating  to  office  ex- 
penses— something  of  the  nature  of  assessments  on  the  subordinate  offi- 
cers to  i»ay  expenses.     Do  you  recollect  that  ? — A.  Very  well. 

Q.  Will  you  state  about  that?  Of  course,  that  came  to  you  b^^  report  ? 
— A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  The  agent  rei)()rted  it,  of  course,  to  you? — A.  Oh,  yes;  I  directed 
liim  to  make  tlie  investigation. 

Q.  A  lid  from  that  agent's  report  you  were  led  to  believe  tliat  there  was 
sometliiiig  very  wrong  about  it? — A.  1  was  led  to  beliexe  it  was  irregu- 
lar, and  I  told  Dr.  Mott  that,  and  he  stopped  it.  The  amount  collected 
was  sometliiiig  over  $300,  it  was  in  little  dribblets  from  various  places. 
As  iMott's  ofhce  grew  in  importance  from  the  increase  in  the  number  of 
distilleries,  it  was  difficult  foi-  liim  to  keep  pace,  by  tlie  allowance  made 
with  the  pressure  upon  his  olllce  and  his  men.  I  have  no  doubt  they  were 
Acry  hard  worked.  Well,  he  had  some  controversy  with  the  bank  in  re- 
gard to  a  (•liecU-b(K)k.  That,  jnoitably,  started  the  thing.  ^Vccording  to 
my  recollcrt  ion  of  the  report,  he  lia\iiig  three  or  four  hundred  subordi- 
iiat<'s,  and  paying  I  hem  once  a,  month  by  cliecdv,  he  had  to  ha\'e  a  very 
largi!  check  book;  the-  bank  at  that  time  declined  to  furnish  the  check- 
book', and  he  had  to  buy  it,  and  it  was  for  the  benelit  of  those  who  re- 
ceived the  money  that  he  collected  the  ainomit  from  them.  That  was 
the  explanation  that   Dr.  Mott  made  for  making  this  little  assessment. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  291) 

Tlu'  uioiiey  raised  was  used  to  buy  ice  tor  tlie  use  of  the  office,  and  for 
various  little  items — I  do  not  know  what  now;  I  have  the  re])ort  at  my 
office. 

By  the  Ciiair^ian  : 
(,).  We  have  it  here— Mr.  Dwire's  report?— A.  Yes;  that  is  it.  I 
lhoM,i;ht  it  was  irregular  and  without  any  rellection  on  these  men  as 
guilty  of  any  fraud.  1  do  not  think  they  were  guilty  of  any  fraud,  but 
it  was  one  of  those  irregular  things  that  are  liable  to  subject  a  nuin  to 
censure  and  suspicion  of  fraud. 

By  Mr.  Bool: 

i).  Did  you  not  judge  from  the  report  that  there  might  have  been  ex- 
cesses in  this  matter  of  assessing  for  office  expenses? — A.  Whenever 
money  is  collected  in  an  irregular  way  and  disbursed  according  to  the 
will  and  pleasure  of  somebody  it  is  always  liable  to  that  abuse. 

Q.  You  had  it  thoroughly  investigated? — A.  I  had  it  investigated  by 
JMr.  Brooks,  a  very  competent  man. 

Q.  Did  you  find  the  money  honestly  expended  and  really  no  dishon- 
esty about  it? — A.  AYell,  1  stated  how  they  had  gathered  the  money  for 
tliese  little  expenses.  It  was  probably  about  $300,  including  the  con- 
tiibutions  of  the  office  force,  and  they  have  expended  it  in  various  little 
ways;  this  check-book  was  one  thing,  costing  $18  or  $20,  and  ice,  &c. 

(v>.  They  paid  a  messenger  also? — A.  Yes;  there  may  have  been  a 
messenger  i)aid,  but  then  you  have  that  all  here. 

'  Q.  I  want  to  know  if  you  had  any  unfavorable  impression  in  regard 
to  Dr.  Mott  after  you  had  investigated  it? — A.  I  had  no  idea  that  there 
was  any  fraudulent  intent  about  it.  If  I  had  I  would  have  recom- 
mended his  dismissal;  but  it  might  be  proper  for  me  to  say  that  I  have 
been  told  by  collectors  and  chief  deputies  and  others  that  they  frequently 
liad  to  buy  their  ice  and  raise  a  little  contribution  in  the  office  for  vari- 
ous little  comforts,  and  of  course  I  have  no  objection  to  that. 

Q.  Y^ou  are  not  positive  that  there  was  any  item  for  ice  ? — A.  I  do  not 
know  that  there  was.  It  has  been  now  two  or  three  years  since  I  saw 
the  report,  and  I  examined  it  very  carefully  at  that  time. 

Q.  You  addressed  a  letter  to  the  subordinates  of  Dr.  Mott  inquiring 
if  he  was  indebted  to  them  ? — A.  Y'^es,  sir. 

(}.  When  was  that  letter  addressed  to  them? — A.  I  cannot  give  the 
date  now ;  I  will  furnish  the  date.     It  was  several  months  ago. 

Q.  Did  you  receive  answers  from  the  subordinates  ? — A.  I  received 
o\er  300,  I  think. 

Q.  Were  they  satisfactory  ? — A.  And  I  have  been  called  u[)on  for 
copies  of  them,  and  am  having  the  copies  made. 

Q.  Y"ou  had  the  answers  examined;  were  they  satisfactory  ? — X.  Y"es; 
I  think  I  read  the  most  of  them.  So  much  had  been  said  derogatory  to 
Dr.  Mott  by  various  people  who  had  visited  my  office,  charging  him  with 
having  received  money  from  his  subordinates,  or  withholding  money 
from  his  subordinates  and  keeping  their  salaries,  that  I  concluded  that 
I  would  see  what  these  subordinates  had  themselves  to  say  about  it ; 
and  so  I  addressed  this  letter  to  between  three  and  four  hundred  per- 
sons. Forty  or  fifty  of  them  had  left  the  service,  but  I  went  back  to  a 
certain  period  and  took  those  on  the  rolls  from  that  time  down.  And 
we  got  replies  from  almost  all  of  them,  and  those  letters  are  such  an  in- 
dorsement of  Dr.  Mott  as  I  think  would  justify  his  appointment  as  min- 
ister to  England,  or  nominate  him  for  Congress,  or  something  of  that 
kind.     His  subordinates  indorsed  him  with  wonderful  unanimity. 


300  COLLECT^OX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Senator  McDill.  Those  copies  will  be  offered  in  answer  to  this  mat- 
ter?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Pool.  We  propose  to  do  that. 

Q.  It  has  been  charged  that  they  followed  a  certain  form  of  answer 
which  was  ])repared  for  them;  did  yon  detect  anything  of  that  sort  in 
examining  the  letters? — A.  The  letters  were  all  prepared  in  one  day,  the 
day  that  I  sent  them  out.  I  will  give  you  the  history  of  it.  1  diiccted 
the  chief  clerk  to  prepare  a  letter.  Dr.  Mott  knew  nothing  about  it.  In 
fact  I  will  state  very  frankly  that  Dr.  Mott  felt  greatly  agg•rie^■ed  at 
my  sending  out  such  a  letter.  He  knew  nothing  about  the  preparation 
of  that  letter.  I  sent  this  letter  to  the  various  post-office  in  the  thirty- 
four  counties  where  these  men  lived,  and  within  three  or  four  <lays  the 
ansAvers  began  to  pour  in,  and  continued  to  come  in  until  we  got  the 
whole  of  them.  There  was  no  lorm  of  answer  sent  out  or  suggested 
from  my  office.  Dr.  Mott  was  not  advised  that  these  letters  were  to  be 
sent,  and  no  one  in  his  district  knew  anything  about  it  until  the  letters 
were  received  there. 

Q.  The  answers  came  in  promptly  from  one  end  of  the  district  to  the 
other? — A.  Some  men  turned  my  letter  over  and  put  their  answer  on 
the  back  of  it.  The  form  of  the  reply  would  be  necessarily  very  nearly 
stereotyped,  because  it  was  answering  two  or  thr^e  questions,  and  if 
the  answers  Avere  all  the  same — that  is,  if  an  honest  answer  from  each 
man  could  be  really  the  same — he  necessarily  would  adopt  about  the 
same  kind  of  expression.  But,  then,  the  letters  are  not  so  alike  that 
a  man  would  suppose  they  were  all  from  the  same  form. 

Q.  Dr.  Mott  issued  at  one  time,  and  it  was  brought  to  your  attention, 
instructions  that  no  more  warrants  should  be  sworn  out.  I  wish  you 
would  state  that  transaction,  and  what  rensons  he  gave  for  it. — A. 
Well,  he  gave  as  a  reason  that  Judge  Dick,  in  a  trial  of  a  case,  allowed 
one  of  the  lawyers  defending  the  man,  tried  for  violating  the  law,  to 
abuse  in  an  unwarranted  manner  one  of  the  internal-revenue  officers 
who  was  a  witness.  Judge  Dick  is  the  father-in-law  of  the  United 
States  marshal  of  Xorth  Carolina.  The  nuirshal  makes  his  living  by 
fees.  The  marshal  I  have  not  regarded  as  an  officer  deeply  interested 
in  enforcing  the  laws  in  favor  of  the  government.  I  looked  into  the 
thing,  and  instead  of  allowing  that  action  to  stand  as  a  remedy,  I 
dire<;ted  the  colleetor  to  revoke  that  order,  and  stated  to  him  that  if 
Judge  Dick  allowed  such  proceedings  in  his  court  I  would  instruct  the 
district  attorney  to  transfer  all  these  cases  to  the  circuit  court,  and  re- 
tain them  on  the  docket  until  the  circuit  judge  could  be  present  and  try 
them.     That  is  the  history  of  that  case. 

Q.  And  that  is  the  way  in  which  it  was  disposed  of? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I 
know  it  lias  been  reported  to  me  by  agents  and  oflicers  that  onr  officers 
liad  been  treated  with  a  great  deal  more  respe<'t  sini;e  that  tune  than 
before  in  tiiat  conrt. 

Q.  You  can  state  gciu'rally  that  Dr.  IMott  1ms  administered  the  collec- 
tion of  internal  rcvcnne  in  that  district  faithfully  and  honestly  as  fai' as 
yon  know? — A.   I  think  he  has. 

().  And  yon  slate  iiissn(;cess  has  been  eminent? — A.  Well,  sir,  whereas 
in  l.S(»7  tliat  disliictwas  (tovere<l  all  over  with  illicit  distilleries,  and 
men  engaged  in  the  liandulent  manufacture  of  whisky,  and  the  sale  of 
tobacco  and  \\liisk\,  and  there  werci  ban<ls  organized  here  and  therefor 
resistance  N»  (he  authority  of  the  government,  to-day  there  is  peace, 
(piiet,  order,  and  observance  of  the  law  and  ])ayment  of  the  taxes.  That 
is  11m'  dillerence.  Ai\(\  tiiat  has  been  bi'oughl  about  by  Dr.  Mott  and 
his  subordinates.  1)\  what  I  (consider  lo  be  a  \('r,\'  successrul  clfort  in 
a<lministei  ing  the  laws  of  the  go\-erninent. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINxV.  301 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  outside  i)ersoiis,  having-  no  connection  Avith  the 
revenue,  huve  not  been  into  your  oflice,  time  and  again,  witli  all  sorts  of 
rninors  and  reports  derogatory  to  tlie  collector  and  his  oflicers? — A. 
Well,  my  ears  are  open  to  the  eomi)laints  of  everybody  here  and  there. 
Men  have  spoken  derogatory  of  Dr.  Mott,  very  generally  men  who  are 
enemies  of  his.  Ur.  Mott,  I  hud,  is  a  num  who  has  very  strong  friends 
and  very  bitter  enennes.  He  is  a  man  of  positive  parts  an<l  cliaracter, 
and  he  usually  strikes  back,  and  so  ha  has  enemies. 

Q.  But  you  have  always  been  i)rompt  to  investigate  anything  of  that 
sort  which  came  to  your  ears  ?— A.  Oh,  yes  ;  we  tried  to  get  at  the  bot- 
tom of  everything  that  seemed  to  be  wrong  in  his  district. 

Q.  And  that  enabled  you  to  speak  positively  when  you  spoke  of  the 
manner  in  which  he  has  executed  the  law  in  tliat  district? — A.  I  spoke 
from  knowledge,  because  I  have  studied  the  question  and  know  all 
about  it. 

By  Senator  McJ)ill  : 
Q.  I  will  call  your  attention  to  a  little  testimony  here,  which  I  think 
it  is  due  to  you  to  notice.     Do  you  know  a  man  by  the  name  of  W.  C. 
Morrison,  a  storekeeper  and  ganger  in  the  sixth  district  ?     I  will  read  to 
you  a  little  of  his  testimony  :  He  was  asked  (quoting) : 

Q.  Do  yon  kuow  of  auy  political  assessments  levied  upon  the  officers  ? — A.  The  one 
per  cent,  business  f 

Q.  Political  assessments  for  political  purposes? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  State  what  you  know  about  it. — A.  They  wanted  the  storekeepers  and  gangers 
to  pay  on  the  campaign  fund,  the  way  I  understand  it. 

Q.   Were  you  called  upon  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  For  how  much?— A.  I  paid  $108. 

Q.  AVhat  per  cent,  of  your  salary  was  that?; — A.  For  one  mouth,  July,  '80. 

And  then  he  goes  on  afterwards  (quoting) :     - 

Q.  Did  you  hear  anything  of  it  afterwards? — A.  No,  sir;  nothing  more  than  I  got 
letter  from  Washington  thanking  me  for  the  |i'2.5  I  had  sent  them. 

Q.  You  got  a  letter  from  Washington? — A.  Yes,  sir.  ^ 

Q.  By  whom  was  that  letter  sigoed? — A.  By  Coramissioaer  Raum,  I  thiuk. 

And  in  cross-examination  he  said  the  same  thing.  I  want  to  ask  you 
if  you  have  written  such  a  letter? — A.  Xo.  Kemittances  were  never 
made  to  me. 

The  Clerk.  Mr.  Morrison,  in  his  cross-examination,  corrected  that, 
Senator,  and  mentioned  that  he  could  not  say  whether  it  was  Mr.  Raum 
or  not. 

The  Witness.  Xo  money  for  political  purposes  was  ever  remitted 
to  me. 

Q.  As  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue,  or  to  you  personally? — A. 
No,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  He  meant  Mr.  Jewell. 

The  Witness.  If  not  Mr.  Jewell,  the  secretary  of  the  national  com- 
mittee. 

Cross-examination  by  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  How  are  deputy  collectors  appointed,  and  by  whom  commis- 
sioned ? — A.  They  are  appointed  by  the  collector  of  internal  revenue, 
and  he  issues  the  warrant  of  appointment. 

Q.  Is  there  not  a  record  of  that  ai)pointment  in  your  ofiQce  ? — A.  Yes, 
air;  they  are  required  to  report  from  time  to  time. 

Q.  Whom  they  have  appointed  ? — A.  They  are  required  to  report  at 
the  commencement  of  each  fiscal  year  the  appointees  under  the  allow- 
ance of  that  year,  so  that  we  will  understand  in  the  offices  how  to  adjust 


302  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

the  arcouiit,  aiul  wiieii  tliey  make  a  change  in  the  oi'ficers  they  are  re- 
quired to  report  tlie  (hite  of  change. 

Q.  An  officer  dismissed  and  aiiotlier  appointed  in  his  phice — they 
report  that.     That  is  what  yon  mean  by  a  change  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  are  tliey  paid — I  mean  now  as  to  the  manner  of  delivering 
them  the  money  '. — A.  Well,  the  collector  can  either  i)ay  them  in  money 
or  pay  by  draft.     That  depends  ui)on  the  arrangement  he  has. 

Q.  Can  he  do  as  he  pleases  about  that  ?  Is  there  not  a"  regulation  ]>re- 
scribing  how  he  shall  pay  them? — A.  No, sir;  there  is  no  regulation  that 
they  shall  pay  them  by  draft.  It  is  usual  to  pay  them  by  draft,  because 
generally  the  depository  is  in  the  town  where  the  office  is  situated — that 
is,  with  most  collectors — and  they  simply  give  a  check  on  the  bank  for 
the  money.     The  storekeepers  are  paid  in  the  same  way. 

Q.  Your  present  answer  would  be  that  this  is  a  matter  of  convenience 
with  the  collector,  and  not  one  of  regidationsf — A.  Yes,  sir.  The 
vouchers  in  the  way  of  the  checks  that  are  given  by  the  collector  to  the 
officers  are  not  sent  here.  He  takes  the  man's  receipt  and  forwards 
that.     He  retains  the  check. 

Q.  The  check,  if  kept  by  ariybody,  is  kept  by  the  bank  ? — A.  The  col- 
lector in  settling  with  the  bank  gets  his  check  back. 

Q.  Certaiidy.  Is  it  permissible  and  lawful  for  a  man  to  draw  double 
pay — as  a  deputy  collector  and  as  a  ganger,  for  instance  ? — A.  Xo,  sir; 
we  do  not  aim  to  have  a  man  draw  double  pay. 

Q.  If  he  draws  full  pay  in  one  capacity,  and  does  work  in  another, 
can  lie  <lraw  pay  for  both  ? — A.  There  has  been  some  controversy  and 
some  legislation  upon  that  subject,  and  I  believe  it  is  settled  now  by 
decisions  of  the  couits  that  he  can  only  draw  pay  in  oue  case. 

Q.  Has  it  been  the  custom  in  the  sixth  district  to  allow  double  ]>ay  to 
officers? — A.  Ithinkuot. 

Q.  Would  the  Comptroller  adjust  an  account  with  double  pay  for  a 
man,  if  he  knew  it  ? — A.  Up  to  a  certain  period  of  time — the  date  I  can- 
}wt  give  without  reference  to  papers  at  the  office — I  think  that  Comp- 
troller Tayler  held  that  where  a  man  held  two  commissions,  the  double 
compensation  for  which  did  not  exceed  $-J, 500  and  he  performed  the 
duties  of  both,  he  could  draw  that  pay.     That  is  my  recollection. 

Q.  Now,  on  3Ir.  Taylor's  ruling,  if  it  did  exceed  $2,500  he  could  not? 
— A.  He  could  not.  Not  long  before  Mr  Taylor  died,  I  had  a  dis- 
cussion with  him  about  that,  and  I  think  that  was  his  ruling  up  to 
a  certain  time,  and  Congress  then  stepped  in,  and  passed  some  law  upon 
the  subject,  and  we  have  now  sections  1764  and  1765,  which  constitute 
the  law  of  the  case  at  this  time. 

(i.  Do  dej)nty  collectors  make  out  what  are  termed  "Hiary  Eeports,'^ 
showing  wliat  tlu'y  have  done  every  day? — A.  They  do  now. 

(}.  How  long  since  tiiey  have  been  com])elh'd  to  do  so? — A.  It  is 
ix'cent  ;  w  itiiin  the  hist  four  oi-  live  yeai's.  it  was  an  invention  of  mine. 
'I'lie  old  foiiii  (!.'>  did  not  contain  these.  It  was  just  siin])ly  an  account. 
U  was  ill  the  year  1S77  or  1S7<S,  prol>ably.  I  know  it  was  ado])ted  dur- 
ing Mr.  Taylor's  achiiinistration  as  Comi)trolIer,  as  I  adoi)te(l  it  after 
consulting  with  him. 

().  Ill  icference  to  the  diawingof  double  pay,  I  iind  the  ibllowing 
law,  w  hich  seems  to  have  been  on  the  statute-book  in  the  year  1842  : 

Skc.  ITdf).  No  ofliccr  in  jiiiy  braiicli  of  the  |nil)lic  .scrviro,  or  .'uiy  other  ]>('rson  wlioso 
Haliiry,  l>iiy,  or  ciiioliiim-iitH  arc  lix<<i  l)y  law  or  rcf^iilatioiiH,  sliall  ri'ccivc*  any  achli- 
tioiial  pay,  i-xfra  allowaix-c,  or  comiM-iisatioii  in  any  form  wliatcvcr,  lor  llu^  <li,sliiirso- 
iiiciit  of  |>iil)lii'  iiioiH'y.  or  lor  any  othrr  sfr\  ice,  or  (Inly  \\  liatcvcr,  niilcss  the  same  is 
:iiilliori/.<'(|  liy  l.'iw,  :iii(l  the  a jipi'oprial ion  tlicrclor  cxiiiicil ly  states  lliat  it  is  tor  sncli 
aildit  iotial   pay,  extra  a  How  .mee,  or  eonipt'iisal  ion. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  303 

I 

A.  That,  I  would  say,  relates  to  the  particular  office  lie  is  lioldinj;-. 
That  says  "no  officer'"'  shall  do  so — receiv'e  extra  pay  aud  extra  com- 
pensation, <kii. 

Q.  You  do  not  hold  that  this  law  has  been  binding'  upon  you  in  the 
sense  that  1  put  it — receiving-  double  pay? — A.  We  are  not  i)aying-  any 
of  our  ])eople  double  pay,  that  I  am  aware  of. 

(}.  Some  three  or  four  instanc(»s  have  been  proven  before  this  com- 
mittee. 

Senator  Mitchell.  Not  acting  in  the  same  official  capacity. 

The  Chairman.  Walker  drawing  lull  pay  as  a  deputy  collector  and 
as  a  ganger. 

The  Witness.  What  was  the  aggregate? 

The  Chairman.  The  aggregate  must  have  been  about  $3,000. 

Mr.  Pool.  I  think  not. 

The  Chairman.. His  pay  as  a  ganger  was  •"S'loO  i^er  month,  and  his 
pay  as  deputy  collector  $100  a  month. 

Mr.  Pool.  Though  it  was  double  pay,  it  does  not  extend  through  a 
whole  year. 

The  Chairman.  I  do  not  understand  it  is  only  for  that  period,  cov- 
ered by  Mr.  Kestler's  vouchers,  nine  months,  but  have  no  doubt  the  bal- 
ance was  there. 

The  Witness.  I  can  show  you  the  regulations  upon  this  subject.  Dr. 
Mott  called  my  attention  this  morning  to  the  fact  that  I  might  be  inter- 
rogated upon  this  matter.  I  found  it  difficult  to  have  gauging  done  in 
some  districts,  and  on  the  7th  March,  1877,  I  issued  this  circular: 

11877.    Department  No.  37.    Internal  revenue.] 

Cifcniar  leiier  No.  39.     Modifying  circular  letter  No.  19. 

Trkasury  Department,  Office  of  Internal  Revenie, 

W,(ishington,  March  7,  1877. 
Sir  :  AVith  tlie  approval  of  the  Secretary  of  tlie  Treasury,  circular  letter  No.  19  is 
hereby  modified  as  follows: 

Wheuever  it  becomes  impracticable  for  collectors  to  secure  the  services  of  persons 
who  will  accept  the  office  of  gauger,  owing  to  the  inadequacy  of  the  compensation, 
they  will  be  permitted  to  nominate  for  appointment  as  gangers  one  or  more  of  their 
depTities,  who  will  perform  the  work  without  extra  compensation  or  fees,  but  actual 
traveling  expenses  incuired  for  gaugiug  will  be  allowed. 
Respectfully, 

GREEN  B.  RAUM, 

Commissioinr. 

That  is  the  regulation  since  March,  1877. 

The  Chairman.  The  section  preceding  that  which  I  have  just  read 
reads  as  follows: 

Sec.  1764.  No  allowance  or  compensation  shall  be  nuide  to  anj-  officer  or  clerk,  by 
reason  of  the  discharge  of  duties  which  belong  to  any  other  officer  or  clerk  in  the  same 
or  any  other  department;  and  no  allowance  or  comiiensation  shall  be  made  for  any 
extra  services  whatever,  which  any  officer  or  clerk  may  be  required  to  perform,  un- 
less expressly  authorized  by  law. 

A,  Now,  in  reply  to  that,  and  as  a  commer.t  upon  the  section,  I  will 
say,  up  to  about  March  1,  1879,  the  deputy  collector  was  not  held  to  be 
an  officer  of  the  government.  He  was  held  to  be  an  employe  of  the  col- 
lector. If  you  turn  to  the  Herndon  case,  15th  Court  of  Claims  Eeports, 
page  14(5,  jou  will  see  that  opinion  sustained;  so  that  that  privilege 
which  relates  to  an  officer  of  the  government,  up  to  the  act  of  ]March  1, 
1870,  would  not  be  applicable  to  a  deputy  collector  of  internal  revenue. 
The  act  of  JMarch  1,  1870,  however,  puts  these  deputy  collectors  on  a 
different  footing  altogether,  as  held  by  this  decision. 

Q.  Were  not  the  emoluments  or  pay  of  the  deputy  collectors,  clerks^ 


304  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

&c.,  fixed  by  legiilations !  Somebody  fixed  them,  did  he  not  ? — A.  Origi- 
ually  there  was  an  allowance  made  to  the  collector  of  so  mnch  money — 
say  tliere  is  610,000.  He  conld  employ  five  or  ten  men ;  so  that  he  lived 
within  the  money  that  was  allowed  him  and  collected  the  revenue  he 
was  all  right.  That  arrangement  went  on  for  some  time.  Finally,  the 
office  prescribed  the  number  to  be  employed  and  fixed  their  salaries, 
but  still  under  the  law  they  were  the  employes  of  the  collector;  but  the 
act  of  March  1,  1879,  shifted  them  over  to  the  list  of  employes  of  the 
government— made  provision  for  their  employment  by  the  government. 

Q.  How  was  the  compensation  of  a  ganger  fixed — l)y  law  or  by  regu- 
lation ? — A.  Both  by  law  and  by  regulation.  The  law  fixes  the  maxi- 
mum, and  provides  that  he  shall  be  paid  for  gauging  upon  the  regula- 
tions prescribed  by  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue. 

Q.  How  would  you  construe  this  section,  No.  17C5  (quoting)  ? 

No  officer  iu  any  brancli  of  the  public  service  or  any  other  person  whose  salary,  pay, 
or  eiii'liuneuts  are  fixed  by  law  or  regulatious,  shall  receive  any  additional  pay,  ex- 
tr:i  allowance,  or  compensation  in  any  form  whatever. 

;Xow  if  a  ganger's  pay  was  fixed  by  law  or  by  regulations,  had  you 
any  authority  to  allow  him  extra  pay  for  doing  work  as  a  deputy  collec- 
tor l — A.  Well,  that  would  raise  the  construction  of  the  laws — that  I 
suggested  awhile  ago — that  Comptroller  Taylor  held.  He  has  a  differ- 
ent department,  and  has  not  the  same  commission  ;  he  has  a  different 
commission  altogether  ;  and  the  question  is  whether  you  can  say,  if  he 
lierforms  his  duties  under  this  other  commission,  that  it  is  extra  pay. 

Q.  Xo  "  extra  allowance  or  comi)ensation  in  any  form  whatever"  ? — A. 
1  see  that  raises  the  question  whether  you  will  call  that  extra  compensa- 
tion ;  you  can  see  what  construction  I  put  upon  it. 

Q.  i  do  not  think  it  was  lawful  to  pay  those  men  double  pay  at  the 
time  it  was  done. — A.  That  may  possibly  be  so;  but,  as  I  told  you,  my 
recollection  now  is  that  the  Comptroller  held  where  a  man  held  a  posi- 
tion and  i)erformed  the  duties  under  it,  but  the  pay  did  not  exceed 
$2,oOO,  that  he  could  be  paid  under  both  of  them. 

(^.  1  will  ask  you  when  a  voucher  for  the  expenses — we  will  say  of 
the  collector's  office — arrives  at  your  office,  what  is  done  with  it ;  whose 
hands  does  it  go  into  in  the  first  place  ? — A.  The  division  of  accounts  is 
composed  of  some  25  or  30  persons,  and  we  have  it  divided  so  as  to  have 
diffV-H'ut  men  assigned  to  different  portions  of  the  work.  I  do  not  recall 
the  number  that  are  on  that  work;  will  make  an  examination  of  the 
accounts. 

Q.  What  position  does  he  hold  ? — A.  He  is  a  clerk. 

(}.  Simply  a  clerk? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  division  has  two  gentlemen, 
ft  1 ,800  clerks,  Mv.  Goodman  and  Mr.  Lay,  who  have  charge,  you  may  say, 
one  (tr  the  otlu'r  of  them.  When  one  is  away  the  other  has  generally 
charge  of  the  Itooks.  The  division  itself  is  under  the  direction  of  the 
deputy  commissioner.  These  deputy  collectors'  accounts  are  in  the 
hands  of  four  eleiUs. 

(}.  (nanding])ap(n-  to  witness.)  Just  describe  what  course  that  voucher 
wonid  take — it  is  one  of  the  Kestler  vouchers. 

Mr.  Pool.  What  is  the,  date  of  that? 

The  ('iiAiiniAN.  October,  1872.  Just  describe  what  would  first  be 
done  with  that  account  when  it  came  in. — A.  The  accounts  of  deputy 
collectors,  when  they  reach  my  office,  are  i)lace<l  in  the  hands  of  six 
cleik-i.  They  examine  Wwau  to  see  if  they  conform  to  the  allowances. 
'J'he  diary  leport  is  lorn  from  the  account  and  retained  in  my  office.  I^ 
the  accoiinf  is  in  form,  wilh  the  i)roper  cei'tificatc^s  and  alfidavits,  &c., 
attached,  it  is  sent  forward  to  the  i'lftli  A ndilor's  Olfice. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NOUTH    CAKOLIXA.  305 

Q.  Then  Avbat  does  he  do  with  it? — A.  T  do  not  know  the  nianipiilii- 
tiou.  I  know  what  the  resnlt  of  it  is.  Tliey  c-xuniinc,  and  make  an  ac- 
count of  it  on  their  boolcs,  a>s  we  do  in  our  ottice:  he  states  tlie  account 
and  sends  it  forward  to  the  First  Comi)troller  with  a  certificate  tliat  lie 
found  such  an  amount  due  this  man. 

Q.  Tlien  what  d(>es  the  First  ('omi>trolh'r  do? — A.  Tlie  First  Comp- 
troller has  men  assigned  to  the  internal-revenue  work;  and  when  that 
account  reaches  the  First  Comptroller  it  goes  to  that  division  of  his 
oflice;  they  examine  it  with  a  view  to  ascertaining,  in  the  tirst  place, 
whether  it  conforms  to  the  allowance,  and  in  the  next  i)lace  whether 
there  is  an  ai)proi)riation  under  whi(;li  the  account  can  properly  be  au- 
dited and  paid;  and  when  they  find  the  account  in  acconhmce  with 
the  law  they  settle  it  and  it  goes  forward  then  as  proi)erly  credited  to 
the  collector  of  internal  revenue,  who  acts  as  disbursing  agent.  You 
know  that  is  not  like  passing  the  account  for  a  warrant,  because  the 
warrant  has  already  been  issued  to  the  collector,  and  he  has  drawn  the 
money  and  has  it  to  his  credit;  but  it  is  passing  an  account  to  carry  to 
the  credit  of  the  collector  on  his  disbursing  account. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  So  as  to  know  what  balance  is  unexpended? — A.  What  is  unex- 
pended; yes,  sir. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  I  want  to  know  if  each  department  through  which  it  passes  does 
not  make  some  mark  or  stamp  upon  it  to  show  that  it  has  passed 
through  that  department? — A.  The  practice  in  my  department  now  is 
to  have  every  paper,  of  every  description,  stamped  on  the  day  it  is  re- 
ceived. That  is  the  first  thing,  and  then  where  it  is  uecessary  to  make 
any  notes  or  comments  on  it  this  is  done. 

Q.  It  bears  some  mark  that  it  has  passed  through  that  office? — A. 
Yes,  sir.  Of  course  it  is  possible  for  a  paper  sometimes  to  miss,  but  this 
is  very  rare. 

Q.  I  see,  now,  an  account  here,  for  instance,  a  voucher  of  W.  H.  Kest- 
ler,  dated  January,  1873,  with  a  stamp  on  the  back  of  it;  what  is  that, 
can  vou  say  (handing  paper  to  witness)  ? — A.  That  is  the  Fifth  Audi- 
tor's Office,  May  12,  1873. 

Q.  There  is  what  is  called  an  amended  voucher  for  the  same  man, 
reducing  the  amount  to  $05,  &c. ;  I  will  ask  you  if  there  is  any  office 
mark  on  that  similar  to  the  other  (handing  paper  to  witness)? — A.  (Ex- 
anuning).  No,  sir ;  I  do  not  observe  the  stamp  of  any  office  upon  it. 

Q.  Or  the  initials  of  any  clerk  ? — A.  Tliere  is  no  stamp  on  the 
amended. 

Q.  Now  I  will  ask  you  to  look  at  the  date  of  the  amended  voucher, 
and  say  what  it  is  ? — A.  The  amended  voucher  purports  to  be  sworn 
and  signed  the  11th  day  of  September,  1874,  before  J.  M.  Horah,  clerk 
of  the  superior  court. 

Q.  Will  you  please  look  at  the  Comptroller's  certificate  of  adjustment 
attached  to  the  same;  what  date  is  that  ? — A.  The  stamp  of  the  Fifth 
Auditor  bears  the  date  of  May  12,  1873. 

Q.  That  was  when  he  adjusted  the  account  ? — A.  That  is  when  he 
sent  it  forward  to  the  First  Comptroller. 

Q.  Do  you  see  the  Comptroller's  certificate,  and  what  date  that  is  ? — 
A.  This  certificate  is  dated  June  2,  1873. 

Q.  Are  you  not  mistaken  about  that  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  What  do  you  make  that,  down  there  (indicating)  ? — A.  I  was  look- 
ing there. 

S.  Miss,  lie 20 


30G  COLLECTIOX    OF    INTERXAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  You  are  on  the  wrong  paper? — A.  No;  tliat  (indicating)  is  the 
Comptroller's  Office,  and  this  is  the  Auditor's.  This  is  the  Comptroller's, 
dated  June  2,  1873. 

Q.  The  Fifth  Auditor's  report  is  made  May  12,  1873,  and  the  Com])- 
troller's  is  June  2, 1873! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Nosv,  inasmuch  as  that  voncher  was  sworn  to,  at  what  date  was 
the  amended  sworn  to  in  1871? — A.  Sei)teml»er  11, 1874. 

Q.  That  being  so,  that  voucher  could  not  have  been  present  when  the 
Auditor  and  Comptroller  adjusted  that  acconnt,  could  it? — A.  1  should 
say  no. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  to  look  the  rep(>rts  over,  and  say  if  the  same  can- 
not be  said  of  these  other  vouchers  that  pur[)ort  to  be  amended.  I  will 
ask  you  if  this  amended  abstract  bears  any  marks  of  the  office  showing 
the  date  when  it  was  received  at  your  office  (handing  Exhibit  13  to  wit- 
ness) ? — A.  (Examining.)  No,  sir;  it  does  not. 

Q.  State  when  it  purports  to  have  been  sworn  to — on  the  opposite 
side. — A.  (Examining.)  September  21, 1874. 

Q.  So  it  could  not  have  been  i)resent  when  the  Auditor  and  Comptroller 
adjasted  the  account? — A.  I  think  not. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  just  to  glance  at  these  succeeding  vouchers,  and  say 
if  they  are  in  the  same  position.  This  one  for  the  succeeding  quarter 
from  January  1, 1873;  does  the  abstract  put  in  any  other  showing,  show- 
ing when  it  was  received  in  your  office? — A.  No,  sir;  there  is  not. 

Q.  And  when  was  it  sworn  to? — A.  It  bears  date  September  21, 
1874. 

Q.  The  same  as  the  other  amended  abstract? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Now,  when  does  the  Auditor's  and  Comi)troller's  certificates  ap- 
pear upon  it? — A.  The  Fifth  Auditor's  Office,  June  10,  1873;  the  First 
Comptroller's  Office,  July  7,  1873. 

Q.  Will  you  look  at  the  original  abstract,  if  you  please,  that  you  have 
in  your  hand,  and  read  over  the  luimes  of  the  deputies? — A.  (Witness, 
reading  compensation  account.  No.  0875.)  J.  A.  Eamsay,  W.  P.  Drake, 
and  W.  II.  Kestler. 

Q.  Will  you  please  look  at  the  amended  abstract  and  read  the  names 
there  of  the  deputies? — A.  Ramsay,  Drake,  and  Walker. 

Q.  Kestler's  name  does  not  appear  ? — A.  Kes tier's  name  seems  not  to 
apjtear. 

(}.  Will  you  please  look  at  the  vouchers  for  the  quarter  ending  the 
30th  of  June,  1873,  and  say  if  the  amended  abstract  bears  any  office 
mark  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Will  you  please  see  when  it  ])urports  to  be  sworn  to  ? — A.  Sworn 
to  Sei)tember  21,  LS74,  before  W.  T.  Bailey. 

(^.  The  same  as  the  others  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  and  sworn  to  before  the 
sanx'  man. 

().  Please  see  tlie  dates  of  the  Aiulitor's  ami  ( 'Omi)troller's  certificates. 
— A.  The  Auditor's,  October  8,  1873;  the  (Comptroller's,  November  15, 
1.S73. 

Q.  Tliat  abstract  could  not  have  been  present  when  the  Auditor  and 
ComjdroMer  adjusted  tin;  accounts? — A.  Of  <;ourse  it  was  not  ])resent; 
file  aci'oiiut  was  adjusted  on  tlu;  oi'iginal  abstraet,  and  the  vouciiersare 
in  ('xcess  of  the  allowance.  A  subse<pu'nt  abstract  was  sent  in  to  con- 
form witii  the  anowaiMM?  and  stateitient  of  the  (Comptroller. 

(}.  ^\'\\]  you  ph'asc^  read  the  nanu\sof  the  deputies  in  the  original  ab- 
stract— just  the  <le.pulies  '? — A.  J.  A.  Itamsay,  J.  T.  Mcintosh,  J.  Q.  A. 
Bryan,  N.  W.  Linington,  W.  II.  K(^stler,  W.'M.  Walker,  J.  H.  Perry. 

ii.  That  is  all  the  dejuifies  lluu'e? — A.   Yes,  sir. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAUOLIXA.  307 

(}.  rieaso  read  the  (le])nties  in  tlic  ninoiulod  abstract.— A.  J.  A. 
Kainsay,  J.  T.  Mcliitosli,  J.  <,).  A.  liryaii,  W.  Lilliiioton,  II.  V.  Mott,  W. 
M.  Walker,  P.  11.  Martin,  J.  U.  Terry;  tliat  is  all. 

Q.  On  the  orit^inal  abstract  the  name  of  Mr.  Kestler  appears,  but  not 
on  the  amended ;  that  is  so,  is  it  not  i? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Bnt  on  the  orii^iiuil  abstract  the  name  of  II.  Y.  Mott  did  not  ap- 
]iear,  bnt  it  is  in  the  amended  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  that  is  correct.  That  was 
tor  1873;  things  were  a  little  loose  then.  Ido  not  know  what  explana- 
tion tliej^  have  to  make  for  these  things;  they  sometimes  had  dei)uty 
depnties  in  those  days. 

Q.  Here  is  a  voucher  for  W.  M.  Walker  for  service  rendered  for  the 
])eriod  commencing  31st  of    December,  1872,  and  ending  ]\Iarch  31 
1873.   I  will  ask  you  to  look  at  that  and  see  if  it  bears  any  oflice  marks 
showing  the  date  of  its  filing  (paper  handed  to   witness). — A.  (Exam- 
ining.) It  does  not;  no,  sir. 

Q.  Here  is  another  one,  for  the  period  commencing  April  1,  L873,  and 
ending  May  20,  1873.  I  will  ask  yon  if  any  otHce  marks  are  on  that,  if 
yon  can  see  them  (paper  handed  to  witness)? — zV.  ]^o,  sir ;  I  do  not 
see  any  office  marks  on  this ;  there  are  some  pencil  fignres  here  on  the 
back,  I  presume  put  there  by  the  clerk  who  has  handled  the  paper 
there  at  the  <^)fHce. 

Q.  Here  is  one  voucher  for  H.  Y.  Mott  for  service  commencing  March 
31,  1873,  and  ending  June  30,  1873,  for  $332.97.  I  will  ask  you  to  look 
if  there  are  any  oflice  marks  on  that  (paper  handed  to  witness)  ? — A. 
(Examining.)     There  is  no  stamp  visible. 

Q.  Or  anything  to  show  when  it  was  received  at  the  office? — A.  No, 
sir. 

Q.  I  will  ask  yon  if  yon  can  give  me  the  year  when  these  papers  were 
filed  in  your  office — these  amended  vouchers — which  I  have  shown  yo  u 
without  stamps  or  marks  ? — A.  I  cannot  answer  that  <piestion.  They 
bear  the  date  of  1872  and  1873 — the  last  quarter  of  1872  and  the  two 
first  quarters  of  1873.  They  bear  date  prior  to  my  accession  to  oflice.  I 
can  only  say  this  in  regard  to  these  papers  :  that  when  I  was  called  upon 
to  produce  these  papers  they  were  found  in  their  proper  place  in  the 
office  of  the  Eegister  of  the  Treasury ;  and  they  were  obtained  by  me 
from  him,  and  put  in  proper  form,  and  sent  by  me  to  this  committee.  I 
have  no  dou1)t  that  they  were  received  in  due  course  by  the  officer  who 
adjusted  the  account.  It  is  highly  probable  that  the  First  Comptroller 
corresponded  directly,  as  they  constantly  do,  with  the  collector  with  re- 
gard to  the  adjustmentof  his  account;  and  I  have  no  doubt  myself  that 
an  examination  of  the  Comptroller's  files  will  show  that  he  wrote  to  the 
collector  in  regard  to  that  adjustment,  and  that  tl  ere  is  a  letter  on  file 
from  the  collector  transmitting  these  papers  that  we  are  now  talking- 
about.  I  have  no  doubt  tlie  records  of  the  office  are  entirely  complete. 
1  would  suppose  from  the  omission  of  those  file-marks  that  they  were 
sent  directly  to  the  Comptroller.  I  think  if  you  will  examine  these  pa- 
pers you  will  find  that  the  Comptroller  does  not  use  a  stamp  on  any  of 
them.  In  fact  there  is  no  stamp  of  my  office  on  these  papers,  but  there 
is  of  the  Fifth  Auditor's  Office. 

Q.  It  did  not  pass,  then,  through  the  regular  channels? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
I  do  not  say  they  passed  through  the  whole  of  the  channels,  but  I  pre- 
sume the  First  Comptroller,  when  he  adjusted  that  account,  wrote  to  the 
collector  and  stated  the  discrepancies  that  were  in  that  account,  and  the 
collector  corresponded  directly  with  him  and  forwarded  those  accounts 
to  him.  Now  the  statement  we  find  here  gives  the  dates  when  those 
palmers  were  received  from  the  Fifth  Auditor's  Office.    While  these  papers 


308  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

passed  tlirougli  my  office  originally  tliey  do  not  seem  to  have  been 
stamped  in  the  office.  And  while  they  passed  from  the  Fitth  Anditor's 
Office  10  the  First  Comptroller's  Office  they  do  not  seem  to  have  been 
stamped  by  the  Comptroller's  Othce;  so  that  if  sent  by  Dr.  Mott  to  the 
Comptrollers  Office  there  would  be  no  marks  on  the  pax)erSj  showing 
when  received  at  that  office. 

Q,  Would  not  the  Comptroller  have  put  some  stamp  on  the  certifi- 
cates when  received,  if  he  had  seen  them,  or  just  filetl  tliem  without 
anything  on  them  whatsoever? — A.  Take  this  voucher  of  W.  M.  Walk- 
ers, dated  April  IS,  1872;  that  bears  the  stamp  of  the  Fifth  Auditor's 
Office;  but  there  is  not  the  slightest  indication  on  that  paper  that  it  was 
ever  in  the  Office  of  the  Internal  Revenue  or  the  First  Comptroller ;  but 
yet  that  paper  has  passed  through  both  of  these  offices  and  gone  to  the 
Register's  Office,  but  there  is  no  indication  on  the  paper  that  the  Kegister 
ever  received  it,  but  he  did  receive  it,  be<.'ause  we  got  that  paper  from 
his  office.     In  my  office,  now,  papers  are  stamped  as  they  come  in. 

Q.  In  that  suit  between  Collector  Mott  and  J.  A.  Ramsey,  Mr.  Ram- 
sey applied  to  your  office  for  copies  of  the  vouchers  iu  his  case,  did  he 
not,  to  be  used  iu  his  suit"? — A.  I  caunot  tell  as  to  that.  That  is,  I  can- 
not state  from  my  personal  knowledge.  I  understand,  however,  that 
he  did. 

Q.  AVhat  I  wished  to  call  your  attention  to,  was  the  application  for 
copies  of  those  vouchers  to  be  used  in  that  law  suit,  that  nothing  but 
the  original  vouchers  were  copied,  and  I  want  to  ask  you  if  you  had 
undertaken  to  give  a  copy  of  the  record,  if  the  amended  vouchers 
would  not  have  been  put  in  this  copy  ? — A.  I  do  not  understand  that 
this  man  gave  but  one  voucher.  I  do  not  uiulerstand  that  Mr.  Ramsey 
gave  but  one  voucher.     He  gave  a  receipt  for  $450. 

Q.  Here  is  what  it  purports  to  be  (quoting) : 

Unitkd  States  of  America. 

Treasury  Department, 

j^ocember  :?,   1877. 
Pursnaut  to  section  882  of  the  Revised  Statutes,  I  hereby  certify  that  the  auiiexeil 
pai»ers  are  true  copies  of  tlie  originals  on  tile  iu  this  department. 

In  witni'ss  whereof,  I  have  hereunto  set  my  hand,  and  caused  the  seal  of  the  Treas- 
ury Dei)artment  to  be  affixed,  on  the  day  and  year  lirst  above  wiitten. 

[seal.]  .JOHN  SHERMAN, 

Secretary  of  the  'Tredsun/. 

Mr.  Pool.  Those  are  the  original  vouchers. 

The  Chairman.  AVhat  were  sent  were  copies  of  the  originals. 

Mr.  Pool.  They  were  copies  of  the  originals;  is  not  that  what  Mr. 
Ramsey  asked  ior  ? 

The  diAiR:\iAN.  Yes,  sir;  he  asked  for  copies  of  the  vouchers  iu  this 
oni(;e.  The  certificate  says  these  are  true  co])ies  of  the  origiiuds  in  his 
(dlicc.  '■J'hc  ])a|><U'S  filed  by  outside  ])arties  would  beoriginals,  and  coi>ies 
that  Wdidd  l)e  I'liiiiished  would  be  copies  of  the  originals. 

(.}.  When  an  anumded  voucher  is  fih'dwitli  the  original  it  then  be- 
comes the  voucher  as  amended? — A.   Yes,  1  should  say  so. 

(^.  Now,  if  th(!  Secretiiry  would  certify  he  had  given  true  copies  of 
the,  original  N'oiU'heis  on  file,  and  it  was  foun*!  that  these  amended  ones 
were  pot  in  the  ollice  in  1.S77,  according  to  the  course  of  the  olfic*',  you 
wonhl  say  they  weic,  not  in  the,  ollice,  or  lie  would  have  sent  co]»ieN  of 
tliciii  .' — A.  Ol'conrse;   I  (h»  not  know  wiiat  Dr.  IMott  applied  for. 

(}.  I  )!■,  Moll  (lid  nol  apply  tor  Ihem ;  it  was  Mr.  Ifainsey  who  a])plied 
loi-  the  \(iiicliers  (or  use  in  his  sail  '.  —  A.  'Hie  whole  adjuslmeni. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  309 

Q.  And  tliey  sent  liim  copies  of  abstracts  all  tlie  way  tliroiij>li,  and  if 
tlie  amended  abstiiiet  Inid  been  in,  and  attached  to  tlie  oii^^inal  wlien 
tliis  coi»y  was  made  in  1S77,  it  would  have  been  copieil  there,  wonld  it 
not? — A.  But  you  see  that  if  the  amended  abstract  was  not  (!0[)ied,  that 
it  was  an  omission  upon  the  part  of  the  clerk,  if  it  was  there,  in  not 
<loin^-  it,  because  I  think  the  amended  abstract  is  necessary  to  the 
l)roper  explanation  of  the  transaction. 

Q.  That  is  all  I  wish  to  show. — A.  You  will  understan<l,  ^fr.  Chair- 
num,  that  these  vouchers  were  not  attached — fastened  to^^ether  in  this 
form — in  the  IJcfiister's  Ofllce, 

(The  witness  alluded  to  the  collection  of  papers  attached  to  compen- 
sation account  No.  G875.) 

Q.  That  is  the  work  of  your  oftice  for  the  convenience  of  the  commit- 
tee ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  the  statenuuit  of  the  acjcouut  of  the  Comptroller,  with 
the  vouchers  attached,  were  not  found  fastened  together  in  the  otlice, 
but  were  brought  together  and  fastened  in  my  ofUce  for  the  convenience 
of  examination  by  the  committee. 

The  Chairman.  I  desire  to  put  in  evidence  the  request  of  Mr.  Ramsey 
for  the  copies  of  the  vouchers  and  the  answer  of  jNIr.  Kla  in  sending  the 
same,  marked  Exhibit  L*l). 

•  Exhibit  29. 

Salisbury.  No.  Ca.,  Oct.  31st,  77. 
Sir:  I  Lave  tlie  honor  to  recjuest  that  you  have  sent  to  me  by  mail,  as  soon  as  pos- 
sible, certified  copies,  according  to  law,  of  the  forms  6^5  (the  expense  account  on  which 
deputies'  vouchers  are  entered),  for  the  quarter  ending  Mar.  31st,  June  30th,  Sei)t.  30, 
and  Deer.  3Ist,  '72,  and  Mar.  31st,  ami  Jaue  30th,  1873.  Also  copies  of  the  form  on 
whicli  the  postage  vouchers  are  entered,  and  copies  of  all  the  vouchers  signed  hy  D. 
S.  Bringle,  postmaster.  Also  i)hotograph  copies  of  the  forms  6:U,  signed  Ijy  William 
H.  Kestler,  Dept.  Collr.  (There  are  three  of  them  for  quarters  ending  Deer.  '72,  and 
Mar.  and  June,  '73).  If  Mr.  Kestler's  vouchers  cannot  be  photographed  I  do  not 
want  them. 

I  do  most  earnestly  request  that  these  papers  be  sent  me  by  Saturday's  mail,  the  3d 
of  November,  as  I  need  them  to  enable  me  to  defend  myself  iu  a  suit  in  court  against 
me. 

Hoping  that  it  will  be  your  pleasui'e  to  grant  my  request, 
I  am,  very  trulv,  yoiir  friend, 

'     '  JOHN  A.  EAMSAY. 

To  Hon.  Ela, 

Fifth  Auditor,   JFashiDf/ton,  D.  C. 

P.  S. — Please  let  me  know  bj'  return  mail  whether  I  may  expect  the  papers  or  not. 
Yours  truly, 

JOHN  A.  RAMSAY. 

Treasury  Department,  Fifth  Auditor's  Office, 

Washington,  Kovi'inbcr  3,  1877. 

Sir:  Your  letter  of  the  31st  ultimo,  requesting  to  be  furnished  with  copies  of  cer- 
tain papers  tiled  with  the  account  of  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  6th  district.  North  Carolina^ 
has  been  received,  audiu  comi)liauce  therewith,  I  send  you  copies  of  all  the  papers 
called  for,  except  the  photograph  copies  of  Kestler's  vouchers  which  cannot  be  furnished, 
there  being  no  provision  for  such  work  iu  the  department. 
Respectfully  yours, 

J.  11.  ELA,  Aiidilo): 
John  A.  Ramsay, 

Late  Dep.  Collector  Qth  Dialrict,  Salishiinj,  X.  C. 

Q.  Can  you  swear  that  H.  Y.  Mott,  J.  T.  IMcTntosh,  and  W.  M.  \Yalker 
were  on  the  rolls  as  deputy  collectors  in  1872  and  1873  ? — A.  I  cannot 
answer  that  without  an  examination  of  the  records.  1  will  do  that  if 
you  wish  it  of  me. 

Q.  I  would  like  if  you  will  also  see — the  certificate  wonld  be  sufficient 
without  coming  again — whether  there  are  any  original  vouchers  for 


310  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

these  parties  that  I  have  shown  you,  where  amended  ones  have  been 
put  in  ;  for  instance  four,  W.  M.  Widker,  J.  T.  Mcintosh,  11.  Y.  ]\Iott,  and 
one  other  whom  I  do  not  recollect  now.  The  vouchers  I  showed  you 
were  all  amended  as  you  saw. — A.  All  the  vouchers  amended? 

Q.  They  are  all  new  vouchers,  and  jiut  in  subsecpient  to  the  time  of 
the  service,  and  after  the  auditiu"-  and  adjusting  of  the  account  by  the 
Auditor  and  Comptroller;  we  call  them  amended  vouchers.  I  will  ask 
you  to  examine  your  ofdce  and  see  if  there  are  not  originals  on  file.  I 
suppose  if  there  are  you  would  have  sent  them  up  tome  wlien  you  sent 
the  amended  ones. — A.  I  Avill  reply  that  these  vouchers  did  not  remain 
in  my  oftice  at  all.  They  go  to  the  Fifth  Auditor  and  the  First  Comp- 
troller and  the  llegister  and  he  is  the  grand  depositary  of  all  these  pa- 
pers. Of  course  if  they  are  to  be  found  they  are  to  be  found  in  the  Reg- 
ister's Office. 

Q.  Have  you  any  knowledge  of  the  amount  of  political  assessments 
raised  from  the  officers  of  the  sixth  district  in  18SU,  we  will  say  ? — A.  I 
do  not  know;   I  have  no  way  of  knowing. 

Q.  Have  you  not  any  means  of  knowing  ? — A.  [N'o,  sir. 

Q.  Were  these  asssessments  levied  by  your  authority  or  with  your 
consent? — A.  Not  in  the  least;  I  was  not  consulted  about  it. 

Q.  Is  it  permissible  under  your  admini.stration  for  a  storekeeper  to 
be  a  kinsman  of  the  distiller? — A.  I  aim  at  all  times  to  have  a  store- 
keeper entirely  disinterested,  if  I  know  it.  Of  course  in  a  large  dis- 
trict like  Mott's,  covering  half  a  State  almost,  it  may  be  possible,  as  it 
happens  in  some  other  districts  of  the  country,  that  a  relative  of  the 
distiller  may,  in  some  distant  part,  by  another  name,  get  commissioned 
as  an  officer,  and  by  some  inadvertence  be  assigned  to  the  wrong  dis- 
tillery. You  understand  I  assign  them  upon  the  recommendation  of 
the  collector  ? 

Q.  Y'es,  sir. — A.  A  thing  of  that  kind  we  might  find,  but  it  would  be 
an  inadvertence,  not  intentional.  Y'ou  can  see  how  a  man  by  the  name 
of  Smith  would  be  running  a  distillery,  and  a  man  by  the  name  of  Jones 
would  be  commissioned,  and  Jones  sent  to  Smith  s  distillery  without  our 
knowing  he  was  his  brother-in-law. 

Q.  In  relation  to  these  small  distilleries,  you  authorized  or  originated 
the  i)lan  of  starting  small  distilleries,  tliat  would  enable  i)oor  men  to 
run  a  distillery,  and  you  said  they  would  net  the  government  Jj'lO  a  day"? — 
A.  It  would  be  a  margin  of  taxes  over  and  above  the  exjjenses.  I  did 
not  say  what  amount. 

(}.  I  nndcrstood  you  to  say  $10  per  day. — A.  Y'es;  $5  to  $10  per  day. 

(^>.  Taking  a  Ibur-bushel  distillery,  and  allowing  tliem  two  gallons  of 
whisky  to  the  bushel,  that  would  make  eight  gallons  of  whisky;  the  tax 
on  it  would  be  $7.1!0,  out  of  which  would  come  ^.'5  for  thestorekee[)er  ? — 
A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  would  not  pay  the  government  a  large  margin? — A.  $4.20  a 
day.  I  think  that  is  better  than  allowing  a  man  to  run,  and  not  getting 
anything  IVom  him. 

(^.  Cndoubtedly  you  thought  that  would  encourage  nu'u  to  distill 
lawfully,  instead  of  trying  to  blockade? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  \Vhen  a  man  liad  a  twelve-bushel  still,  was  it  necessary  for  his 
('iicouragement  t<>  let  him  divide  it  into  three  or  four  stills? — A.  T  liavo 
thought  alioiit  that  a.  great  juany  tinu's,  because  1  ha\'e  known  of  men 
ha  \ing  distilleries  veiy  close  together,  wIh'IC  a  man  started  his  distillery 
this  month  here  on  a  luaiicii  iind  next  month  started  another  one  not  a 
gicat  ways  olf. 

(}.    A  btllc  hi;;liir  lip  Mie  biiiiich '/ — A.  'i'liat  has  be(ii  brought  to  my 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  3  i  1 

attention.  I  have  consulted  with  my  law  advisers  and  others  Iiow  that 
could  be  prevented,  and!  have  not  understood  tliat  I  would  liavc  any 
authority  to  i)revent  a  man  who  was  operatinj;-  two  small  distilU'ries.  or 
require  him  to  consolidate  them,  no  more  than  I  could  require  a  man 
owning"  two  lar,^e  distilleries  to  consolidate  them. 

Q.  Could  there  be  any  other  motive  with  the  men  doing  this  than  to 
derive  some  benefit  from  the  pay  of  the  storekeeper  ? — A.  I  will  telL  you 
very  frankly,  I  think  that  was  a  motive.  We  have  fought  against  it, 
aiul  finally  I  reduced  their  pay  to  $3  a  day. 

Q.  You  si)oke  of  Dr.  Mott's  administration  as  being  "eminently  suc- 
cessful"; Avhat  was  the  i)ercentage  that  it  cost  to  collect  the  reveiuie 
in  that  district? — A.  Oh,  it  was  very  large;  my  report  will  show. 

Q.  Your  report  shows  what  it  was  a  year  ago.  Your  i-eport  for  this 
fiscal  year  is  not  out  yet. — A.  It  w^as  very  large,  but  I  do  not  think 
that  the  ofticers  stole  any  money. 

Q.  That  may  be. — A.  I  do  not  think  that  there  was  an  excessive  num- 
ber of  people  employed  to  enforce  the  laws. 

Q.  That  expenditure  was  about  54  per  cent.,  I  believe  ? — A.  I  do  not 
remember  the  ])er  cent.     It  was  very  large. 

Q.  It  was  over  50  per  cent  ? — A.  I  would  not  venture  to  say. 

Q.  If  you  have  got  it  stated,  that  will  be  sutficieut. — A.  It  is  large, 
very  large. 

Q.  Suppose  you  add  to  that  the  expense  of  the  judicial  part,  in  the 
proceedings  of  the  courts  ;  that  expense  is  not  added  to  your  depart- 
ment.    Would  it  not  make  it  still  larger? — A.  Oh,  yes. 

Q.  Would  it  not  make  it  75  or  SO  percent.  ? — A.  I  could  not  tell  what 
these  expenses  were.     I  have  not  looked  into  that. 

Q.  Of  course  no  one  could  tell  unless  the  expenses  of  the  revenue  de- 
partment Avere  separated  from  the  other  expenses  of  the  court,  and  that 
we  have  no  means  of  doing  that  I  know  of. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  At  all  events  that  would  add  very  considerably  to  the  cost  of  the 
collection. — A.  The  object  of  it  was  to  suppress  these  frauds,  and  to  do 
it  at  whatever  cost  was  necessary.  As  I  stated  awhile  ago  I  thought  it 
was  better  to  have  an  honest  observance  and  enforcement  of  the  laws 
at  a  large  expense  than  to  have  turmoils,  confusion,  and  discord,  and  a 
community  of  men  engaged  in  the  illicit  manufacturing  and  selling-  of 
whisky;  and  the  result  is,  that  we  have  followed  that  system  of  admin- 
istration, and  I  think  when  you  go  home  and  look  it  over  closely  you 
will  see,  if  you  consider  the  matter  dispassionately,  the  results  have 
been  in  favor  of  law  and  order. 

Q.  That  is  your  oiunion  :  whether  it  is  mine  or  not  is  another  matter, 
of  course.  Under  this  system  of  political  assessments  the  more  ofiicers 
are  appointed  the  greater  the  amount  of  the  aggregate  assessments 
would  be. — A.  It  is  a  nnitter  of  arithmetic.  There  is  no  question  that 
if  you  have  three  hundred  ofdcers  and  you  receive  $100  apiece  from 
them  that  you  have  more  raouey  than  you  would  have  if  you  had  a 
hundred  ofticers  and  got  $100  apiece. 

Q.  So  it  was  advantageous,  in  a  party  sense,  to  increase  the  number 
of  officers  also"? — A.  I  will  answer  that  fully.  I  have  never  authorized 
the  employment  of  a  deputy  collector,  clerk,  or  storekeeper  and  ganger 
for  party  purposes.  I  have  authorized  the  employment  of  these  i)eoi)le 
for  the  purposes  of  enforcing  the  laws.  I  have  always  thought  that 
when  we  overcame  illicit  distillers  in  those  States,  and  showed  them 
that  the  government  was  not  undertaking  to  impair  their  rights  as  citi- 
zens, and  they  threw  oft'  the  scales  that  were  upon  their  eyes,  that,  like 
well-intentioned  men  out   in  Iowa,  they  would   vote  the  Rei)ublican 


312  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

ticket;  and  I  think  you  will  find  enough  of  them  that  will  vote  tbe  ticket 
this  fall  to  carry  the  State. 

Q.  About  tliose  squads  you  spoke  of  that  were  employed,  was  there 
not  a  considerable  increase  of  expenses  for  policing? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  1  will  ask  you  if  they  were  not  actively  employed  in  cam])aigning 
at  the  same  time,  carrying  and  distributing  documents,  getting  up  con- 
ventions, &c.f — A.  If  they  were  I  was  not  aware  of  it. 

Q.  You  have  never  issued  anything  like  a  civil  service  reform  order, 
forbidding  them  to  do  it? — A.  I  hold  myself  to  be  the  most  practical 
civil-service  reformer  in  this  country;  I  hold  that  a  trne  civil  service  is 
to  have  no  more  officers  than  needed,  and  to  pay  them  reasonable  sala- 
ries requiring  them  to  perform  their  duties  faithfully  and  honestly,  and 
then  to  allow  them  to  go  forward  and  to  exercise  their  right  as  citizens 
and  do  whatever  political  work  they  can  conveniently  for  their  party. 

Q.  You  mean  lor  the  liepublican  ])arty  ? — A.  Well,  I  would  not  ap- 
point a  Democrat  if  I  knew  it;  for  [  tbink  the  true  policy  of  party  ad- 
ministration is  to  appoint  its  friends  so  as  to  uphold  its  ])riucii)les. 

Q.  You  spoke  something  of  the  monthly  estimates,  1  think  you  called 
it,  that  the  collector  had  to  make  to  the  office  in  order  to  enable  the 
department  to  judge  of  the  ])ropriety  of  the  amount  of  his  allowance; 
the  monthly  estimate  of  the  collectors  for  their  expenses  in  the  office  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  1  understood  you  that  they  were  required  to  make  a  monthly  es- 
timate to  you  ? — A.  1  know  the  allowance,  and  I  know  the  number  of 
l>ersons  that  they  have  employed.  They  report  that  now.  If  a  man  is 
oii"  a  month  and  away — say,  the  allowance  has  been  made  for  a  deputy 
collector — and  this  man  has  been  moved,  and  his  salary  was  $100  per 
month,  in  the  next  requisition  he  would  omit  to  draw  for  that  salary; 
and  when  we  came  to  investigate  the  requisition,  we  would  see  whether 
he  was  drawing  the  exact  amount  that  was  necessary  to  pay  the  men 
there  on  duty. 

(^.  Is  it  custonmry,  legal,  or  proper,  in  any  sense,  to  file  vouchers  in 
the  name  of  one  man,  in  order  to  draw  money  for  another  man  ? — A. 
that  is  not  a  i)roi)er  way  to  transact  business  at  any  time. 

i).  Are  ofticers  required  to  swear  to  their  accounts? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
that  is  the  form  of  the  voucher  upon  which  they  make  out  their  ac- 
counts. 

Q.  Could  I  get  those  montldy  estimates  of  collector  Mott  for  the  year 
1S73  ? — A.  I  will  see  whether  they  can  be  obtained. 

Q.  Of  course  youknow  thecharacter  of  revenue  agent  A.  H.Brooks  ? — 
A.  Very  well. 

Q.  What  is  it  ? — A.  He  is  a  most  excellent  officer. 

i).  AVhat  is  it  as  a  man  ? — A.  A  trustworthy  man  in  every  respect. 

(^  And  .Mr.  McLeer  ?— A.  (lood  man. 

(}.  And  yiv.  Chapman  and  Mv.  Kellogg  ? — A.  Chapman  is  a  very 
good  man.  No  better  man  in  the  (country  than  Kellogg.  He  would 
make  a  liist-iate  United  States  Senator.  Yes,  sir;  he  is  a  first-class 
man. 

(}.  And  Mr.  Wagner? — A.  Jacob  AVagncr  is  a  man  of  most  excellent 
ability,  and  t  itist  woit  hy  in  every  resi)ect.  I  ha\'e  assigned  the  very  best 
olh<-«*rs  we  had  in  the  service  to  your  State. 

(}.  hi  relerenee  to  this  mat t<'r  of  othce  ex])enses,  thercj  was  levied  one 
l)er  (•(•Mt.  a  month.  \v;is  there  not,  by  tlie  c(tlh'ctor? — A.  1  (cannot  give 
_\(Mi  the  contrnts  (»r  that  report  now  without  exann'ning  it.  1  do  not 
think  that   :ill  I  lie  of'liceis  \>:\\i\. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    XOKTII    CAROLINA.  313 

(}.  Ihit  we  have  ^ot  tlie  iiapcr  liciv,  and  it  slutws  it  w;i.s  one  pei'  eeiit. — 
A.   It  was  soiaetliiiiii'  like  that. 

Q.  If  there  were  the  three  or  four  hundred  oftic-er.s  in  the  district  you 
.sj)oke  of — I  suin^ose  there  are  more  tlian  four  hundred  otlieers  in  the 
district  all  told? — A.  I  do  not  remember  the  luimberj  three  or  four  luni- 
dred. 

Q.  There  is  one  storekeeper  to  each  distillery  in  opei-ation,  and  then 
some  general  storekeepers,  dei)uties,  and  s])ecial  deputies'? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  the  special  de])uties'  emi)loyment  is  about  over. 

Q.  If  they  carried  that  out  for  three  hundred  ofilicers  it  would  have 
yielded  about  $300  ])er  month,  would  it  not,  if  the  sahiries  axeragcd 
$100  a  month? — A.  If  the  salaiies  aveia.ned  $100  it  would  be  a  dollar 
apiece. 

Q.  That  would  l>e  rather  much  for  the  inci<lental  expenses  of  an  office 
like  a  collector's,  would  it  not? — A.  AVell,  I  thoujiht  it  was  an  im]>roi)ei- 
thing-  to  levy,  and  I  stoi)j)ed  it;  they  had  collected  about  $300,  buf  I 
think  this  amount  had  been  spread  over  several  months.  From  what  I 
gathered  from  31r.  Brooks,  there  was  uo  great  amount  of  pressure 
brought  to  bear  upon  these  people  to  induce  them  to  contribute,  but  it 
was  simply  to  pay  oftice  exjjeuses. 

Q.  You  say  letters  were  seut  out  by  you  to  all  the  officers  on  the  sub- 
ject, iuquiriug  what  they  had  paid,  &c.? — A.  Yes,  sir.  Not  to  know 
what  they  had  paid.     No,  I  did  not  send  letters  for  that. 

Q.  AVhat  did  you  seud  letters  to  them  for? — A.  In  regard  to  these 
office  assessments'?  No,  I  did  not  send  letters  to  those  persons.  I 
directed  Mr.  Brooks  to  make  the  investigation. 

Q.  Perhaps  a  letter  was  sent  out  relating  to  the  subject  of  the  charges 
that  Dr.  Mott  had  retained  some  of  their  money,  and  refused  to  ])ay 
them,  &('. — A.  I  wM)uld  have  to  refresh  my  memory  whether  I  sent  a 
letter  to  these  people  in  regard  to  these  ofti(;e  expenses. 

Q.  I  understood  you  to  say  so  when  you  replied  to  Mr.  Pool. — A. 
That  was  in  regard  to  whether  they  had  been  paid  or  not. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Y^ou  sent  a  circular  letter  to  the  subordinates  of  Dr.  Mott  on  both 
subjects — on  the  subject  whether  he  owed  them  anything,  and  also  what 
they  paid  for  office  expenses. — A.  If  I  did  I  had  forgotten  about  that 
letter.     I  do  not  believe  that  I  sent  that  sort  of  a  letter. 

Mr.  Pool.    \Ye  have  a  hundred  answers  to  it. 

Senator  McDill.  I  understood  these  answers  were  in  regard  to  these 
very  questions. — A.  I  cannot  tell;  I  try  to  dismiss  such  things  as  that. 
By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  I  understood  you  to  deny,  in  response  to  Mr.  Pool,  that  you  had 
sent  any  form  of  a  letter  to  reply  by. — A.  Oh,  yes,  of  course. 

Q.  I  will  ask  you  if  you  did  or  did  not  get  a  letter  from  a  young  man 
lately  in  the  revenue  service,  named  JMr.  Bogle,  inclosing  you  a  copy  of 
a  form  that  he  said  had  been  prepared  by  an  officer  and  sent  to  them, 
and  it  had  been  handed  to  him? — A.  I  cannot  answer  that  until  I  go  to 
the  office.  I  do  not  recollect  that  that  was  so.  If  it  were  true  and 
brought  to  my  attention  I  have  forgotten  it. 

Q.  He  testified  he  had  got  hold  of  the  Ibrm,  on  the  margin  of  which 
was  "  Write  something  like  this,"  "Copy  this,''  and  that  he  had  sent  it 
to  3'ou  to  call  your  attention  to  it. — A.  Nothing  of  that  kind  went  from 
my  office. 

Q.  I  ask  you  if  you  got  from  him  such  a  letter? — A.  I  will  see  after  I 
get  to  the  office.     That  letter  was  sent  out  in  absolute  good  faith  to  as- 


31-4  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

certain  tbe  tiutli.  (A  package  of  letters  is  liauded  to  witness,  who 
examines  tlieni.)     I  see  that  my  recollection  was  at  fault  in  that. 

Q.  I  simply  wish  to  call  your  attention  to  the  letter  sent  to  you  by 
the  young-  man  Mr,  Bogle? — A.  I  will  see  about  that.* 

Q.  In  relation  to  the  order  that  Collector  Mott  issued,  forbidding  his 
subordinates  to  send  out  any  more  warrants,  I  will  ask  you  was  that 
legal,  and  had  he  any  authority  to  order  his  officers  not  to  perform  thei  • 
duty  '? — A.  Well,  I  revoked  the  order.  I  thought  it  was  not  a  proper 
order  ro  issue. 

Q.  You  may  have  done  that  as  a  matter  of  policy,  I  want  to  know  if 
in  your  opinion  it  was  not  directly  illegal  ? — A.  I  thought  that  they 
ought  to  go  on  and  perform  their  duty  whether  tlie  court  considered 
them  right  or  not. 

Q.  You  said  you  would  order,  if  that  was  continued,  the  district 
attorney  to  transfer  the  cases  into  the  circuit  court  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  AVhere  the  witnesses  were  not  properly  protected  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Could  he  do  that?— A.  I  think  so. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  How  long  did  those  assessments  for  oftice  expenses  continue  ? — A. 
I  think  only  two  or  three  months. 

Q.  And  there  was  only  $300  altogetlier  collected? — A.  About  that,  I 
think. 

Q.  And  that  amount  of  three  hundred  dollars  was  ascertained  to  be 
the  sum  collected  upon  an  investigation  through  you  by  Mr.  Brooks? — 
A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  Did  not  Dr.  Mott  stop  making  the  collections  for  oflhce  expenses 
after  an  allowance  had  been  made  to  cover  them  and  a  year  before  it 
was  brought  to  your  attention? — A.  iSTow,  I  am  not  able  to  state  with 
absolute  certainty  in  regard  to  that.  It  seems  to  me  that  I  said  to  Dr. 
Mott,  that  this  investigation  showed  that  he  ought  to  have  some  addi- 
tional allowance  for  oftice  expenses;  instead  of  relying  upon  his  subor- 
dinates to  contribute  to  make  up  those  expenses,  that  he  should  esti- 
mate them  for  me,  and  I  would  allow  them,  and  my  recollection  is,  an 
additioiiiil  allowance  was  made  on  his  estimate. 

(^ '^riien  the  assessments  stopped? — A.  Oh,  yes,  sir;  they  stopped. 

(}.  Was  that  not  some  twelvemonths  before  the  investigation  by  Mr. 
Brooks  ? — A.  1  say  that  I  would  not  be  able  to  state  that. 

(^  The  investigation  showed  that  a  very  large  number  of  officers  did 
not  i)ay  at  all,  and  also  the  letters  you  received  in  answer? — A.  Just  as  I 
have  stated  on  the  examination-in-chief,  that  all  tlu^  officers  did  not  con- 
tribute, and  there  was  no  si)ecial  pressure  brought  to  bear  ui)on  them. 

(}.  The  answers  of  these  ()ffi(;ers  will  show  how  much  they  did  pay  ? — 
A.  Tlies*;  answers  will  show  more  delinitely. 

(}.  It  is  your  iccolleiit ion  that  very  few  of  the  officers  paid  at  all? — 
A.  There  was  $300  collected. 

(}.  Vou  were  asked  just  now,  as  a  matter  of  arithmetic,  whether  po- 
litical assessments  upon  a  larger  number  would  not  amount  to  nu)re 
tliiiii  upon  a  smaller  munber? — A.  I  replied  that  it  would. 

(^.  And  that  a  larger  number  of  olliccrs  was  caused  by  your  reducing 
tlie  recpiiied  eii|»a('ity  of  the  stills,  and  was  also  i>i<)dnced  by  a  greater 
number  of  distilh^ries  b«'ing  ])ut  up  ? — A.  These;  oflicers  were  employed 

•  ('oimniHHioiHT  Riuiiii  siiIih  !(|1I«miI  iy  n'lKirlcd  lliiili  lio  liad  ciniscil  (lilif^fut  Bcjircli  to 
l>c,  iikkIc  tliniMjili  tlu!  iilos  of  liis  ol'licc  iiml  lomKl  no  record  of  uiiy  such  hitter  from  Mr. 
l{');,'h- or  iiny  one,  cIhi;.  Ilts  was  tlicrcforc  al)h)  to  uLalc  that  no  siudi  letter  lia  I  been 
I'ccciviMl  liv  liini. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAKOLIXA.  315 

to  meet  tlu?  retinirements  of  tli(.'  service  there  in  that    distriet  in  order 
to  sui)])re8.s  illicit  distilling. 

Q.  Did  you  try  to  have  tlie  number  of  stills  inineased  in  order  that 
you  might  have  a  correspoiuling  increase  of  storekeejiers  upon  which  to 
make  political  assessments? — A.  Not  atall,the  bcnelits  resulting  jxiliti- 
cally  from  that  were  simply  incidental. 

:  Q.  By  having  a  great  numlK^r  of  small  distilleries  and  storekce]»ers 
ap])ointed  thereto  them,  it  necessarily  increased  largely  the  percentage; 
Ml  the  expenses  of  collection  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  not  that  reduce  the  expenses  that  had  been  incurred  in 
courts? — A.  I  would  suppose  so;  1  never  investigated  the  matter  i»ar- 
ticularly.  I  know  that  that  system  of  adniinistrarion  resulted  in  the 
suppression  of  illict  distilling  and  restored  law^  and  order  there. 

Q.  That  would  necessarily  reduce  the  court  expenses  in  prosecutions  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  observed  in  the  question  that  court  expenses  were  added  to  in- 
crease the  iiercentage  of  costs.  I  want  to  know  if  these  increased  ex- 
penses did  not  break  up  illict  distilling  and  lessen  the  prosecutions  in 
court,  and  therefore  lessen  the  court  expenses? — A.  Wliere  the  people 
observe  the  law  the  court  expenses  will  be  greatly  reduced. 

Q.  I  understood  you  to  say  that  it  was  by  mistake  that  a  kinsman 
was  assigned  to  a  distillery  run  by  his  relative  ? — A.  If  a  case  of  that 
kind  occurred  it  was  entirely  a  mistake.  1  have  no  reason  to  believe 
there  was  any  fraudulent  intent  in  procuring  the  assignment,  be(;ause 
the  division  betw^een  the  oflicers  and  distillers,  if  any  such  occurred,  was 
a  small  thing  after  all. 

Q.  In  a  district  so  large  as  this  of  Dr.  Mott's,  embracing  a  mountain- 
ous region  of  country  and  stills  away  out  in  isolated  localities,  would  it 
not  be  very  easy  for  such  mistakes  to  occur? — A.  They  might  occur. 
It  is  a  very  curious  system  of  things  where  a  man  has  a  great  amount 
of  business  if  he  does  not  now  and  then  make  mistakes. 

Q.  Of  that  kind  ?— A.  Of  any  kind. 

Q.  To  have  a  large  extent  of  country  and  a  district  inaccessible  in  the 
localities  where  the  stills  are  run  would  make  the  collector  especially 
liable  to  such  mistakes? — A.  Of  course,  he  made  mistakes;  but  I 
never  had  a  suspicion  that  Dr.  Mott  was  mixed  up  in  any  frauds  there, 
and  I  did  not  believe  he  would  be  a  party  to  them ;  I  do  not  thiidv  he 
would  intentionally  make  an  assignment  of  that  kind. 

Q.  But  one  instance  occurred  in  which  you  say  double  pay  was  drawn 
in  the  year  1872  or  1873,  Avhen  it  was  drawn  by  a  deputy  collector  who 
acted  at  the  same  time  as  ganger.  At  that  time  such  things  were  al- 
lowed and  were  thought  to  be  lawful  by  Comptroller  Taylor? — A.  I 
think  not.  I  tried  to  make  that  as  clear  as  I  could  in  the  examination- 
in-chief.  I  do  not  think  I  can  explain  it  more  fully.  I  remember  dis- 
•cussing  that  identical  question  with  Comx)troller  Taylor,  and  u])  to  a 
certain  time  that  was  held  to  be  lawful. 

Q.  jNIy  purpose  ^vas  merely  to  bring  out  that  the  only  instance  of  that 
occurred  in  1872  or  1873. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  I  sujtpose  you  mean  the  only  instance  produced  be- 
fore the  committee  ? 

Mr.  Pool.  I  presume  the  committee  has  got  them  all. 

The  Chairman.  The  Commissioner  would  not  swear  it  never  occurred 
since. 

The  Witness.  I  do  not  swear  anything  about  it. 

Mr.  Pool.  I  say  that  the  only  instance  produced  before  this  commit- 
tee occurred  m  1872  or  1873. 


316  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

The  Chairman.  Tliat  is  correct. 

^Ir.  Pool.  Xo  otlier  instance  has  been  producefl  before  tlie  commit- 
tee.    After  this  they  changed  the  Law  in  1878  or  1879? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  These  Kestler  vouchers  run  from  the  30th  of  September,  1872,  to 
the  30th  of  June,  1873 — 9  montlis.  It  is  in  evidence  here  that  the  al- 
lowance of  the  collector  was  for  three  deputies  at  a  hundred  dollars 
each,  up  to  May  20,  1873,  and  after  that  time  for  four  deputies  at  $125 
a  month  each.  Mr.  Kestler  went  upon  duty  on  the  30th  of  September, 
1872,  and  remained  on  duty  to  the  21st  of  October,  1872 — two-thirds  of 
a  month.  ]Mr.  Clarke,  Dr.  Mott's  clerk,  issued  vouchers  in  the  name  of 
Kestler  for  the  quarter  running  from  the  30th  of  September,  1872,  to 
the  31st  of  December,  1872,  and  then  for  the  next  quarter  ending-  March 
31;  and  then  for  the  next  quarter  ending  June  30,  1873,  which,  lie  says, 
was  a  mistake  of  his,  supposing  Mr.  Kestler  was  continuing  as  deputy. 
It  is  in  evidence  that  Mr.  Walker  was  appointed  deputy  in  i^lace  of  Kes- 
tler on  the  20th  of  October,  but  no  voucher  was  sent  in  in  his  name 
at  all. 

The  Chairman.  Yon  are  mistaken  ;  Mr.  Walker  swore  that  he  signed 
a  voncher  and  it  was  not  sent  in;  if  it  was  not  sent  in,  it  was  Clarke's 
fault. 

Mr.  Pool.  I  said  no  voucher  was  sent  in  for  Mr.  AYalker  at  all  dur- 
ing that  year,  and  he  served  to  the  20th  of  May,  1873.  Mr.  Mcintosh 
was  appointed  in  Mr.  Walker's  place,  and  no  voucher  was  sent  in  for 
him,  but  still  in  the  name  of  Kestler,  np  to  June  30,  1873.  A  voucher 
was  sent  in  for  Mr.  Eamsay  during  that  time,  and  for  Mr.  Drake  during 
the  whole  'three  quarters,  and  for  Mr.  Kestler;  the  others  were  left  out. 
In  that  shape  it  appears  from  the  records  there — that  you  had  in  your 
hand  just  now — it  went  from  your  office  to  the  Fifth  Auditor's,  and  then 
went  from  his  office  to  the  First  Comptroller's;  now  when  the  First 
Comptroller  received  it  in  that  shape — a  voucher  being  sent  in  for  a 
man  not  a  deputy,  as  he  knew  the  number  of  men  that  were  acting 
as  deputies  at  the  time — would  it  not  be  his  duty  to  investigate  the 
matter  and  inform  Dr.  Mottf — A.  I  think  it  would. 

Q.  Would  it  be  Dr.  Mott's  duty  to  correspond  directly  with  him  in 
regard  to  any  inquiry  as  to  how  that  occurred  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  any  kind 
of  an  officer  having  the  exanunation  of  an  account  can  correspond 
directly  with  the  person  claiming  credit  or  payment. 

Q.  Detecting  the  voucher  sent  in  the  name  of  a  man  who  was  not  an 
officer,  he  would  be  apt  to  correspond  with  him! — A.  Oh!  yes. 

(^.  It  wouhl  have  been  Dr.  Mott's  duty  to  reply  to  the  First  Comp- 
troller?— A.  Of  course. 

(}.  When  the  First  Com])troller  adjusted  that  account,  would  it  not 
liave  been  Dr.  ]\Iott's  duty  to  conform  to  his  adjustment  by  sending  in 
amended  vouchers  in  the  name  of  the  i)roi)er  i)arties? — A.   [  think  it 
would.     The  collector  (;()uld  only  take  credit  for  the  amount  allowed  him^ 
!).>•  the  S('(!r('tary  of  tlie  Treasury. 

().  And  <lisl)urse  it  to  the  men  who  were  renlly  the  officers? — A.  And 
if  there  w<'re  any  erroi-s  in  th(5  vouchers,  why  the  First  Comptroller 
would  have  to  write  to  cause  hiin  to  correct  them. 

().  It  would  H'quire  liim  to  send  in  correct  vouchers? — A.  Yes;  a 
voucher  that  wouhl  warrant  him  in  closing  the  a«-count. 

(}.  Now,  these  voucIhms  on  which  you  said  there  was  no  mark  of  the 
i'llth  Auditor's  Odice,  showing  (lull  tliey  ])assed  through  his  office,  or 
wlieii  they  were  filed,  are  the  correct  voucliers;  and  the  abstracts  leave 
Mr.  Kcstler's  name  out  an<l  put  these  other  men  in? — A.  Yes;  the 
;iliieiM|c(l  ;il).sl  lacl. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  317 

Q.  And  that  lias  no  mark  of  the  Fiftli  Auditor's,  tliouf;h  it  has  ])eeii 
in  Ills  oflicc? — A.  No,  sir;  nor  the  First  Comptrolh'r;  nor  the  C^oniiiiis- 
sioiier  of  Internal  Kevenue,  nor  the  Jte^ister;  but  it  was  taken  out  of 
the  IJegister's  tile. 

Q.  The  First  Comptroller  does  not  put  marks  on  any  of  them?  — A.  It 
seems  not,  in  this. 

Q.  It  did  not  appear  that  anj'  of  the  vouehers  were  marked? — A.  No, 
sir. 

Q.  At  that  time,  does  it  appear  that  your  office  had  any  mark?— A. 
The  division  of  accounts  at  that  time  had  no  stamp. 

Q.  Is  not  that  a  full  exi)lanation  of  the  absence  of  any  mark  on  these 
amende<I  vouchers? — A.  I  should  say,  as  those  vouchers  were  found  in 
their  proper  jdaces  in  the  Register's  Oflice,  and  as  they  conform  to  tiie 
settlement  of  the  account  by  the  First  Comptroller,  and  bear  date  but 
a  short  time  after  his  adjustment,  it  would  seem  there,  had  been  some 
corresjjondence  in  respect  to  them ;  that  they  are  regular. 

Q.  You  say,  then,  that  there  is  no  irregularity  in  the  matter  ? — A.  1  see 
no  irregularity  about  that.  The  fact  is,  the  First  Comptroller  would  be 
working  at  it  until  today,  if  they  were  not  regular.  He  would  not  have 
allowed  the  thing  to  go;  would  not  have  sent  this  forward  to  be  tiled 
with  the  Eegister  of  the  Treasury  unless  he  was  satisfied  with  the  ad- 
justment of  tlie  account. 

Q.  Until  the  collector  had  conformed  to  his  adjustment? — A.  Until 
he  had  conformed. 

Q.  And  that  adjustment  is  in  conformance  with  the  allowance  that 
was  made? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  cannot  make  it  otherwise.  The  Secretary, 
npon  recommendation  of  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Ilevenue,  decides 
the  amount  which  shall  be  paid;  the  Comptroller  has  nothing  to  do  with 
that.  He  simply  settles  the  account,  makes  it  conform  with  the  allow- 
ance; and  where  the  account  fails  to  conform  with  the  allowance,  he 
holds  it,  and  sends  it  out  to  the  officer. 

Q.  He  keeps  on  until  the  collector  does  conform  to  his  adjustment! — 
A.  He  does  not  forward  it  to  be  tiled  with  the  Register  of  the  Treasury 
until  all  is  satisfactory.  It  may  be  proper  for  me  to  say  that  ten  years 
ago  the  business  of  my  office  was  not  in  as  good  form  in  respect  to  the 
accountability  of  officers  as  it  is  today. 

Q.  Mr.  Clarke  said  in  his  evidence  that  he  made  this  mistake  himself 
without  Dr.  Mott's  knowledge,  and  in  Dr.  Mott's  absence,  by  sending' 
on  these  Kestler  vouchers,  supposing,  or  inadvertently  i)erha])s  sup- 
posing, that  Mr.  Kestler  was  still  continued  instead  of  being  turned  out 
and  another  man  put  in  his  place. — A.  I  can  very  well  understand  that 
Dr.  Mott  going  into  the  office  ignorant  of  his  duty  and  not  being  taught 
by  some  agent  stationed  there  for  that  purpose,  and  only  picking  up 
the  duties  from  his  own  subordinates,  miglit  be  ignorant  as  to  the 
proper  way  of  managing  his  office.  I  now  tr}^  to  avoid  that  by  having 
a  revenue  agent  thoroughly  experienced  in  the  business  of  the  colle(!t- 
or's  office,  to  stay  with  the  new  collector  a  week,  ten  days,  or  two  weeks, 
until  he  is  thoroughly  posted — putting  a  schoolmaster  to  teach  him,  so 
to  speak. 

Q.  It  is  in  evidence  that  Mr.  Clarke  was  sent  from  the  fourth  district 
on  account  of  his  previous  experience  by  the  supervisor  of  the  internal 
revenue  in  order  to  instruct  Dr.  Mott  and  keep  the  office  straight.  That 
was  the  pro])er  thing  for  the  supervisor  to  do,  was  it  not? — A.  The  su- 
pervisors did  anything  that  they  thought  necessary.  Under  the  super- 
visors' system  there  w^ere  ten  commissioners  of  internal  revenue,  each 
one  trying  to  do  his-  duty. 


318"  COLLECTION    OF    LSTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  The  supervisor  w;is  in  fact  the  commissioner? — A.  lie  had  the 
power  to  suspend  the  coUector  if  necessary. 

Q.  So  while  actinji;  in  this  position  he  exercised  liis  power,  and  sent 
Mr.  Clarke  there  to  take  char}4e  of  the  affairs  in  the  collector's  office? — 
A.  I  suppose  that  was  with  Dr.  Mott's  consent.  I  suppose  when  Mott 
went  in  he  did  not  know  much  about  managing"  the  office. 

Q.  Was  Dr.  Mott  blamable  for  following  Clarke's  directions  in  the 
first  year  ? — A.  The  law  holds  every  man  who  occupies  an  office  up  to 
his  duty. 

Q.  He  might  be  responsible,  but  would  he  be  blamable  for  folio  wing 
his  directions  ?  Would  he  be  reprehensible  merely  for  a  mistake  made  by 
Clarke  under  these  circumstances  ? — A.  Where  a  man  in  office  makes  a 
mistake  unwittingly,  and  that  does  not  involve  any  criminal  intent,  I 
do  not  think  he  should  be  censured  seriously  for  it. 

Q.  Could  these  vouchers  that  have  no  nuxrk  of  the  Fifth  Auditor 
upon  them,  and  to  which  your  attention  has  been  called,  liave  got  down 
into  the  Register's  Office  except  from  the  First  Comptroller? — A.  I  think 
not. 

Q.  They  must  have  been  to  the  First  Comptroller  to  have  gotten  into 
the  Eegister's  Office  ? — A.  Well,  everything  goes  there  in  pretty  regular 
order.  The  First  Comptroller  would  not  accept  these  vouchers  from 
my  office,  be(;ause  my  office  would  not  be  able  to  state  the  account  and 
certify  it.  The  Fifth  Auditor  would  have  to  do  that.  If  they  got  into 
the  First  Comptroller's  Office  from  my  otfice,  they  would  send  them  to 
the  Fifth  Auditor.  The  Register  is  simj^ly  a  custodian,  and  I  don't  think 
would  accei)t  papers  from  me. 

Q.  Do  you  think  there  is  anything  in  these  vouchers  in  the  correction 
of  the  mistake  that  Clarke  made  in  sending  in  vouchers  in  the  name  of 
Ivestler  indicating  anything  wrong? — A.  There  is  nothing  to  indicate 
anything  wrong  about  it.  It  is  simply  a  mistake  of  Dr.  Mott's  under- 
taking to  disburse  more  money  than  he  was  authorized  to  disburse  un- 
der the  allowance.  He  was  brought  up  with  a  round  turn  bj'  the  First 
Comptroller,  and  then  sent  in  the  amended  schedule,  and  in  some 
cases  amended  vouchers. 

Q.  You  see  no  sign  of  fraud  or  intention  of  fraud  in  the  absence  of 
the  mark  of  the  Fifth  Auditor  upon  them  ? — A.  I  see  a  mistake,  but  no 
fraud. 

Q.  You  say  you  see  no  evidence  of  fraud  in  the  absence  of  that 
nmrk? — A.  1  tliiidc  not. 

Q.  Did  the  pa])ers  go  directly  from  the  First  Comptroller's  Office  to 
the  R(^gister? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(^.  Tiiere  is  no  intermediate  step  ? — A.  No,  sir.  The  First  Comj)- 
troHer  settles  the  account,  and  then  sends  it  down  to  the  Register  to 
lile  it  away. 

V>y  the  Chairman: 

(^,  Mr.  J'ool  asked  you  if  it  was  not  the  duty  of  the  Comptroller,  when 
he  found  that  an  a(;connt  lihid  by  Collector  Mott  was  not  correct,  to 
correspond  with  him  and  have  him  (correct  it.  That  is  so,  is  it  ? — A.  I 
tiiinl<  so. 

().  You  know  nothing  of  such  a  cori"es])ondence  ? — A.  Oh,  no;  I  know 
notiiing  of  that  coi'rcspondciice,  but  I  piesume  it  is  there. 

(,).  !)(»  .\<)U  not  know  from  the  i)a|>ei's,  and  from  what  you  have  heard 
ill  the  offi(;<',  that  on  a(!<;onnt  of  tIu^se  very  sanu'  accounts,  charges  were 
Itroiigiit  against  I)i'.  Mott,  and  he  was  turned  out  of  office  in  the  fall  of 
ISTl  ? — A.  i  n(i\'(U-in\'(\stigatcd  the  exact  giounds  u]>on  which  President 
(Iraiit  iriiiovrd  Dr.  Moll.  I  (h)  not  know  Miicthci;  it  was  ui)on  that  or 
not . 


THE    SIXTH    DISTKICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  319 

Q.  Did  you  never  see  Mr.  Crane's  rei)()rt  ? — A.  Xo,  sir;  1  never  ex- 
amined that.  In  fact,  I  know  tliat  since  tliis  investigation  came  up, 
there  has  been  some  talk  about  this  i)ayinent  to  Mr.  Jiamsay  and  those 
errors  there  cree])in<>-  in.  I  understood  tluit  Dr.  Mott  made  things  sat- 
isfactory to  the  rresich'nt  and  convinced  liim  that  there  was  no  fraud 
nor  intentional  mistake  about  it,  and  the  Presidiuit  restored  him. 

Q.  Did  you  not  also  understand  that  the  Commissioner  and  Secretary 
of  the  Treasury,  i)rotested  a.nainst  his  being  restored  l — A.  Yes,  sir;  I 
think  that  Commissioner  Douglass  did.  I  do  not  know  upon  what 
grounds  it  was.  I  think  the  friends  of  Dr.  Mott  api)ealed  directly  to 
President  Crant  abont  it. 

Q.  1  will  ask  you  if  it  was  not  i)olitical  intluence  simply  that  restored 
Dr.  Mott  to  oftice  ? — A.  I  cannot  tell  yon  about  that.  » 

Q.  Is  not  that  your  understanding? — A.  I  do  not  think  any  of  the 
Democrats  went  there  to  ask  his  retention.  IMy  understanding  is,  and 
that  I  gather  from  hearsay,  that  Judge  Settle,  Colonel  Keogh,  and  some 
other  prominent  Eepiiblicans  of  Xorth  Carolina  (L  have  heard  that 
stated — Colonel  Keogh  told  nie)  went  to  President  Grant  and  insisted 
that  injustice  had  been  done  Dr.  Mott,  and  convinced  the  President  that 
that  was  so,  and  he  corrected  it. 

Q.  Did  you  not  also  understand  that  Simon  Camerou,  of  Pennsyl- 
vania, interfered  ? — A.  'No,  sir ;  I  did  not  hear  that. 

Q.  I  believe  you  told  Mr.  Pool  that  you  did  not  consider  what  was 
done  there,  with  reference  to  those  vouchers,  any  irregularity,  but  sim- 
ply a  correction  of  a  mistake  ? — A.  AVell,  I  stated  this,  that  Dr.  JNIott 
evidently  made  a  mistake  in  agreeing  to  ]>ay  more  than  was  authorized 
by  the  allowance  to  be  paid  him;  that  if  he  undertook  to  pay  Inm  more 
than  that  and  his  account  was  adjusted  otherwise,  it  Avas  an  irreguhirity 
and  had  to  be  settled  in  that  wny. 

Q.  Was  it  usual  to  make  up  pay  accounts  in  the  name  of  men  who 
were  not  in  office  at  all? — A.  I  did  not  reply  to  that.  While  Mr.  Pool 
laid  his  foundation  covering  that  point,  he  did  not  make  any  inquiry  in 
regai'd  to  it.  I  think  that  was  entirely  irregular.  While  a  mistake 
might  occur  entirely  without  intentional  fraud,  it  is  entirely  irregular 
to  put  in  one  voucher  with  one  name,  where  the  service  had  been  per- 
formed by  another ;  but  then  you  will  understand  that  this  is  not  the 
first  case  of  that  kind  that  has  occurred. 

Q.  This  case  was  not  only  where  a  voucher  was  put  in  for  a  man  who 
was  not  an  officer,  but  where  vouchers  were  forgotten  to  be  put  iu  for 
men  who  were  actually  officers  and  doing  the  work? — A.  I  do  not  know 
what  explanation  has  been  made  in  regard  to  this  matter. 

Q.  I  am  asking  you:  it  seems  an  extraordinary  mistake,  if  Kestler's 
vouchers  were  put  in,  he  not  being  in  oftice? — A.  That  was  wrong. 

Q.  And  there  were  three  men  who  did  the  work  and  were  in  office, 
and  they  forgot  to  put  iu  v^ouchers  for  them? — A.  If  Kestler,  once  be- 
ing an  officer,  was  removed,  and  some  one  was  ai)poiuted  in  his  i)lace,  and 
the  mistake  was  made  of  taking  the  voucher  of  Kestler  for  the  services 
of  his  successor,  thatvoucher  would  not  pass  muster  in  the  Comptroller's 
Office;  as  a  nuitter  of  course,  the  pay  must  go  to  the  i^erson  performing 
the  work;  but  it  was  a  little  singular  that  Kestler's  successor  gave  no 
receipt. 

Q.  Kestler  swore  he  did  not  give  a  receipt  and  Clarke  admitted  that 
he  had  forged  his  name. — A.  Tliat  is  very  singular.  Of  course  that 
was  wrong. 

Q.  I  asked  him  if  that  was  not  a  forged  voucher  and  he  admitted  it. 

Mr.  Pool.  I  understood  he  had  authority  from  Mr.  Kestler  to  sign 
his  Jiame. 


320  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

The  Chairman.  Ko,  he  said  many  of  the  officers  gave  him  authority, 
but  he  did  not  remember  whether  Mr.  Kestler  had  or  had  not. 

The  Witness.  I  will  state  that  it  is  entirely  irregular  for  ver1)al  au- 
thority to  be  taken  by  a  collector  or  one  of  his  (h'puties  fi'om  his  sub- 
ordinates to  sign  their  vouchvrs. 

Q.  That  itself  was  an  irregularity. 

]\[r.  Pool.  Mr.  Clarke,  I  think,  said  he  had  authority  from  Mr.  Kestler. 

The  Witness.  These  matters,  you  understand,  are  entirely  new  to  me, 
because  I  have  never  had  occasion  to  investigate  them.  They  were  set- 
tled years  ago. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Yon  said  that  it  was  regular  and  proper,  if  a  mistake  Imd  been 
made,  &c.,  in  the  vouchers,  to  amend  that  by  substituting  new  ones  if 
the  Comptroller  would  require  them.  Now,  I  ask  you,  if  these  amended 
vouchers  had  been  taken  to  the  Comptroller's  oftice  by  permission  to 
correct  a  uiistake,  if  the  Comptroller  Avould  have  not  made  some  in- 
dorsement upon  them,  or  done  something  to  recognize  that  these  were 
amended  vouchers? — A.  I  do  in>t  know  what  course  he  would  pursue  in 
regard  to  it.'  You  have  exandned  the  original  vouchers  which  passed 
through  the  Comptroller's  office,  and  you  find  there  are  no  marks  or 
memoranda  upon  them,  aiul  1  do  not  know  that  any  other  rule  would 
l»e  adopted  in  regard  to  amended  vouchers;  they  seem  to  have  been  put 
in  their  proper  i)laces,  with  the  statement  of  the  account,  as  made  up 
by  the  Comptroller.  I  suppose  that  light  would  be  shed  upon  the  mat- 
ter by  getting  the  correspondence  that  passed  between  the  First  Comp- 
troller and  Collector  JNIott.  I  apprehend  there  are  some  letters  there 
that  constitute  a  part  of  the  record  and  which  would  give  some  expla- 
nation of  the  matter,  that  I  would  not  be  able  to  state  under  oath  as  a 
witness.  I  can  cause  an  investigation  to  be  made  of  it,  if  you  choose, 
if  you  want  to  get  right  down  to  the  bottom  facts. 

Senator  McDiLL.  I  would  like  to  have  the  witness  send  the  Comp- 
troller's correspondence  about  the  matter. 

The  Chairman.  Very  well. 

The  Witness.  All  right;  any  letters  that  passed  back  and  forth. 

Adjourned  until  Friday,  July  14,  1882,  at  10  o'clock. 

Commissioner  Raum  subsequently  furnished  copies  of  memorandum 
and  correspondence  in  relation  to  this  matter  found  on  the  files  of  the 
Fifth  Auditor's  oftice,  to  be  appended  to  his  testimony,  as  follows: 

Memorandum  relative  1o  the  accounts  of  Kestler  and  othsrs. 

The  nolU'ctor  should  lih'  aiMeii(l<Ml  Forms <i:i  covciiiiji'  the  pciiod  in  (iiiestioii,  giving 
the  iiiiiiH'S  of  the  <h'i)ii1ic.s  wlio  received  tlw  iiioiicy  ;ui(l  iicrroiiucd  tlie  seiviee,  ac- 
companied Ity  proper  vouchers  aud  au  al'liilavit  scLtiuj;'  IbrLh  all  the  lacts  in  the  case. 

[Personal.]  UxrrED  States  Internal  Revenue, 

COLLKCTOII'S   OkI'UE,    DiSTIiU'T   NoHTH   CaKOT.INA, 

Statesville,  Sept.  VMIi,  1874. 
Dkak  Stu:  I  HCTid  tlio  ijajters  which  I  tliiuk  are  in  accordance  with  the  instructions 
given  on  the  slip  ot'itajx'r  you  hanchd  me. 

I  liope  this  will  tie  sat islactory.  'I'he  slip  ofpajier  containing  instructions  I  inclose 
also,  as  it  may  l>e  of  service  to  you  in  retresliing  your  memory  of  I  lie  case. 

If  anything  is  wanting  to  perfed  your  idea  of  what  is  uccc.-^sary,  please  drop  me  a 
line. 

\'erv  roHpeetCully,  yours,  &<•., 
(Signed.)  .1.  J.  MOTT. 

W.  So.MEits,  Fs*!., 

fi/Zi  .■hldil(ir''n  Offire. 


THE    SIXTH    DLSTHICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  321 

r.MTKi)  States  Ixtkkxal  Rkvkxce, 
Collector's  Office,  Dlstrict  Nouth  Cakulixa, 

,  1H7-. 

As  cliicf  clerk  iuid  (l(']>nty  for  Collector  J.  .1.  Mott,  of  the  Otli  district  of  N.  C,  I 
made  out  the  (piartcrly  acjcoiiuts  in  his  oliticf  from  I_)(^c.  :51,  '72,  to  Jiiiic.  ;50,  IH?:?. 

Knowiiif;-  the  aiiiouiits  ])a-id  to  deputies  I  kept  ae(-()Uiits  sif^ued  l)y  tlieiii,  so  tiiat  I 
iiiijiht  not  be  delayed  at  tln^  end  of  each  (piartiU'  in  sending  in  my  (|uarfrily  aeconnts. 

The  district  is  large  and  the  dei)uti<'s  scattered  and  at  intervals  ai)sent  from  the 
•office  for  weeks  at  a  time.  Kestler  was  appointed  a  deputy  coll'r,  aud  I  did  not  know 
for  seveial  months  but  what  he  was  still  a  deputy,  as  the  collector  had  deputies  actin" 
secretly,  as  it  worked  better  in  discovering  the  illicit  operators. 

J3esides,  it  l)eing  before  the  moieties  wv.vo  done  away  with,  there  were  dilfereut  men 
counected  with  the  office  and  operating  ati  xpecial  deputies  in  hunting  up  illicit  distil- 
leries, &c. 

It  was  in  this  way,  I  suppose,  that  the  mistake  occurred  in  sending  up  Kestler's 
voucher. 

The  deputies  at  that  time  did  not  draw  their  salaries  regularly  anyway,  as  they  gen- 
erally paid  themselve's  out  of  the  collections  they  nuide,  and  were  settled  with  accord- 
ingly. 

When  the  assessors  were  going  out  the  collector  appointed  several  additional  depu- 
ties on  the  Ist  May,  1873,  to  help  collect  aud  give  information  to  the  public  concerning 
the  new  special  tax  stamps;  this  will  account  for  the  nnmlxjr  of  names  on  th(i  .June 
abstract,  only  a  portion  of  whom  we  received  any  allowance  for.  . 

H.  Y.  Mott  was  one  of  the  principal  collecting  deputies  during  this  iiuarter,  and  his 
name  and  voucher  does  not  appear  there  as  it  shoiild  have  done.  This  was  simply  an 
oversight. 

J.  A.   CLARKE, 
Late  Chief  Clerk  cf  DepHy. 

Sworn  and  subscribed  to  before  me  this  the  2lst  day  of  September,  1874. 

E.  B.  DRAKE, 

U.  S.  Com. 

United  States  Internal  Revenue, 
Collector's  Office,  6th  District  North  Carolina, 

Statesrille,  Sept.  17,  1874. 
Sir:  I  respectfully  ask  to  place  on  iile  in  your  office  some  amended  papers,  abstracts 
C3  and  vouchers  6".U,  for  the  purpose  of  correcting  my  account,  in  which  I  hnd  a  mis- 
take.    The  accompanying  papers  will  explain  the  matter. 
Very  respectfully, 


Hon.  .7.  H.  Ela, 

5th  Auditor,  Treasury  Depf.,   IVashinfjIon,  D.  C. 


J.  J.  MOTT, 

Collector. 


Washington,  D.  C,  Friday,  July  14,  1882. 
The  committee  met  at  10  a.  m. 
The  following-  witnesses  were  called  on  behalf  of  Dr.  Mott. 

D.  C.  Pearson  sworn  and  examined. 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 
fl   Question.    Where  do  yon  reside  ? — Answer.  In  Morganton,   l!^.  C. 
±^Q.  What  is  your  business? — A.  I  am  at  present  a  general  storekeeper 
in  the  sixth  district  of  North  Carolina. 

l^Q.  You  reside  not  far  froui  that  Soutli  Mountain  country  that  has 
been  talked  about  here? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  live  at  the  county  seat  of 
Burke;  the  South  Mountains  are  in  that  county. 

Q.  Are  you  well  acquainted  with  that  country? — A.  I  think  I  am. 

Q.  Will  you  state  what  the  condition  of  the  public  sentiment  was  in 
that  country,  in  regard  to  the  internal  revenue  law,  and  the  officers, 
and  the  collection  of  the  revenue,  souie  years  ago? — A.  Yes,  sir;  well  sir, 
there  was  a  very  bitter  opposition  to  the  revenue  laws* and  its  officers 

S.  Mis.  116 21 


322  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

there,  directly  after  the  war  ni»  to  the  year  187(5,  There  was  not  a  li- 
censed distillery  in  the  county  for  a  considerable  time;  1  do  iiot  know 
when  the  first  one  was  started — probably  not  before  1874.  There  was 
a  great  deal  of  blockading'  down  in  that  section  of  the  county. 

Q.  Were  there  illicit  distilleries  there? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  is  what  I 
mean  by  blockading. 

Q.  Any  great  number  of  them'? — A.  A  considerable  number,  I  think. 

Q.  You  do  not  think  there  was  any  legal  distilleries  there  at  all ! — 
A.  There  were  none  certainly  prior  to  187LJ. 

Q.  All  these  people  seemed  determined  to  run  their  illicit  distilleries 
and  resist  any  attempt  to  break  them  up  ? — A.  They  did  resist  those 
efforts  frequently  there  prior  to  187(3. 

Q.  Was  there  bloodshed? — A.  There  was  one  ohicer  wounded  there 
at  one  time  ;  I  do  not  know  that  any  one  was  ever  killed.  During  the 
administration  of  Weaver,  who  was  the  lirst  internal  revenue  collec- 
tor in  that  district,  there  was  a  nuin  by  the  name  of  John  Sherman, 
who  operated  in  that  county  as  his  chief  deputy,  wlio  was  fired  upon 
frequently.  Afterwards,  Rollins  was  the  collector.  W.  H.  Deaverwas^ 
in  there  frequently,  and  tired  upon. 

Q.  That  was  before  the  consolidation? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  am  speaking 
of  the  time  [)rior  to  187(i. 

Q.  It  was  then  the  old  seventh  district? — A.  Deaver,  in  company 
with  a  United  States  officer,  a  lieutenant,  who  had  charge  of  the  squad, 
was  tired  upon,  1  do  not  know  that  nuy  one  was  hurt.  Since  1876^ 
Mr.  Gillesjue,  a  deputy  collector  under  Dr.  Mott,  was  shot  down  in  the 
York  settlement  and  wounded  in  the  arm.  He  was  ;ilso  accompanied 
by  some  United  States  trooi)s  at  the  tin)e.     I  think  he  was. 

Q.  Showing  that  they  resisted  not  only  the  United  States  revenue 
officers,  but  also  the  United  States  troo])S? — A.  These  troops  were  at 
that  time  emi)loyed  under  the  direction  of  the  department  to  assist  the 
collector  in  the  enforcement  of  the  law. 

Q.  There  seemed  to  be  a  determiiuition  to  resist  the  execution  of  the 
law  in  that  section  of  the  county? — A.  That  is  my  opinion,  and  it  is 
verified  by  those  circumstances. 

Q.  Has  there  been  an  improvement  in  that  respect "? — A,  Very  great  j 
siuce  187G  and  1877  there  has  been  a  very  marked  improvement.  There 
has  been  no  force  used  in  the  way  of  troops.  There  was  what  was 
called  a  special  force  that  was  employed  by  the  collector,  under  the  di- 
rection of  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue.  Those  men  were 
what  we  called  a  special  force;  they  went  about  in  squads  over  the 
country,  under  sonu'  designated  dei)uty,  wlio  was  called  captain  of  the 
squad.  When  those  men  first  started  out  they  were  fired  upon  at  one 
time  <lown  theic. 

il.  'I'his  neighborhood  is  a  monntain  (;ountry,  is  it  not? — A.  Yes,  sirj 
very  monntainons, 

Q.  You  say  there  has  been  a  very  decided  improvement  since  1875? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  the  imi)rovement  has  (;ontinned;  it  has  been  becoming 
greater  year  by  year,  Tiiese  men  wei-e  allowed  to  start  small  distiller- 
ies ;  nniny  of  them  who  had  becMi  engaged  heretofore  in  blockading,  and 
were  indii'tcd  in  the  (tourts,  were  indnced  to  go  into  the  manufacture 
of  whisky  legally,  and  thei'e  was  a  number  of  distilleries  started  in  Burke 
aftci'  187!)  and  1880 — i)roi)ably  some  in  1878. 

<}.  is  it  sale,  now,  for  revenue  officers  to  go  (iirongh  that  conntiy  ? — 
A.    ^  cs,  sir;   I  hear  of  no  dislnrltaiM'c  now  at  all. 

(}.  it  was  said  that  was  a  lv'c|»nblican  commnnily;  that  niostof  the 
jtcdplc  in  there  w«'rc   i;c|»iibiicans  ? — A.  Tlie.v  did,  alter  the  war,  np  to 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  323 

1876,  vote  the  Republican  ticket.  During  the  campaign  of  187G  many 
of  them  at  that  immediate  box — Lower  Fork  Precinct — tliey  voted  a 
larger  Democratic  vote  that  year  at  that  box  than  tliey  were  ever  known 
to  do  before. 

Q.  There  had  always  been  a  (lousiderable  Democratic  vote  there,  had 
there  not? — A.  About  one-fifth  of  it  was  Democratic. 

Q.  Do  you  know  wlietlier  some  Democrats  were  appointed  by  Dr. 
Mott  as  his  olticers  in  1870? — A.  1  do  Icnow  there  was. 

Q.  In  that  regi(m  of  the  State? — A.  In  that  section  nt  the  State;  and 
I  know  tliat  there  was  some  C()m])laint  by  llepuhHcans  of  Dr.  iVfott  tor 
doing  so.  He  gave  as  a  reason  for  doing  it  that  the  service  reqnired  it; 
that  the  Republican  party  lias  been  hehl  entirely  responsible  for  all  the 
odium  in  the  execution  of  the  internal  revenue  laws,  and  he  i)roi)osed 
that  some  of  this  odium  should  fall  upon  the  Demo(;rats.  And  many 
of  these  men,  after  entering  the  service  and  coming  in  contact  with  the 
revenue  and  its  authority,  and  so  on,  have  afterwards  acted  with  the 
Re])ublicans — nniny  of  those  appointees. 

Q.  You  said  about  one-ftfth  of  the  i)eople  of  the  South  Mountain  conn 
try  were  Demociats;  were  not  the  Democrats  extremely  Wtter  and  vin- 
dictive in  that  i>articular  section  ? — A.  There  was  a  great  deal  of  capital 
made  out  of  the  revenue  laws  in  that  locality.  It  was  known  as  a  lie- 
publican  measure,  and  the  Repul)licans  were  held  responsible  for  it ;  the 
prejudices  of  those  people  were  ap|)ealed  to,  and  1  have  no  doubt  many 
men  who  voted  the  Republican  ticket  prior  to  that  time  were  induced 
to  vote  the  Democratic  ticket,  thinking  they  would  be  relieved  of  the  law 
and  its  operations  by  the  Democratic  administration  coming  into  power — 
when  the  Democratic  i)arty  got  control  of  things. 

Q.  I  was  speaking  of  the  Democrats  in  that  particular  locality  of  the 
South  Mountains,  and  asked  if  they  were  not  extremely  bitter  and  vin- 
dictive in  their  ijolitical  views  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  there  was  any 
more  of  that  there  than  in  other  localities;  the  intluences  that  were 
brought  to  bear  were  brought  to  bear  upon  the  line  I  have  stated;  know- 
ing the  weakness  of  those  people,  it  was  used  in  that  section  of  the 
country  when  not  used  elsewhere. 

Q.  Did  the  appointment  of  some  Democrats  to  office  under  the  col- 
lector seem  to  change  the  i)ublic  sentiment  there? — A.  The  public  sen- 
timent became  changed  there,  because  the  Democrats,  getting  control 
of  Congress,  made  no  change  in  the  revenue  laws,  and  those  people 
became  convinced  that  it  would  be  the  same,  let  them  be  in  power  or 
out  of  power;  that  those  appeals  that  had  been  made  to  them  on  the 
part  of  the  Democracy,  to  enable  the  Democracy  to  get  into  power,  proved 
not  to  be  true. 

Q.  Was  it  your  opinion,  from  your  observation  of  that  locality,  that 
the  Democrats  excited  those  people  to  violations  of  the  revenue  laws  ? — 
A.  Those  peojile  had  been  in  the  habit  of  making  whisky  all  their 
lives  ;  from  after  the  war  they  thought  they  could  do  as  heretofore. 
They  knew  nothing  of  the  law,  and  the  habits  they  had  acquired  for 
years  before  they  kept  up.  I  unhesitatingly  say  this,  that  politicians 
took  advantage  of  those  peoi)le  down  there,  of  their  desire  to  violate  the 
law,  anyhow,  to  operate  and  make  whisky.  I  do  not  mean  to  say  that 
any  individual,  in  open  declaration,  told  them  they  had  the  right  to 
violate  the  laws,  or  that  they  ought  to  do  it. 

Q.  You  think  the  appointment  of  Democrats  in  that  locality  to  office 
hel])ed  to  change  public  sentiment  and  make  it  better  ? — A.  I  do, 

Q.  You  Think  it  was  a  wise  policy  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Are  there  not  illicit  distilleries  in  that  locality  now  that  you  know 


324  COLLECTION    OF    INTEENAL    KEV^ENUE    IN 

of  ? — A.  Not  that  I  know  of;  comparatively  speakiii<j-,  there  are  none  at 
all  There  mi.yht  be  iusolated  ones  hero  and  there,  but  so  far  as  it  was 
the  case,  and  is  now,  you  can  say  it  lias  entirely  stopped — in  a  comparison 
of  that  kind. 

Q.  Is  there  less  denunciation  of  the  law? — A.  I  think  there  is. 
\  Q.  A  witness  on  the  stand  spoke  of  the  fact  that  a  Mr.  W.  J.  Patter- 
son and  ]VIr.  Gudjier  were  storekeepers  at  some  distillery  near  Morgan- 
ton,  I  think,  and  that  they  were  relatives — one  of  the  witnesses  intimated 
— relatives  of  tlie  distillers.  1  wish  you  to  state  how  that  matter  was. 
— A.  There  are  three  distilleries  near  there.  They  were  bonded  as  the 
distillery  of  Huffman,  at  which  distillery  W.  J.  Patterson  is  a  store- 
keeper ;  another  one  is  the  bonded  distillery  of  John  Brittain,  at  which 
Mr.  Gndger  is  the  storekeeper;  John  CJarrison  has  a  bonded  distillery 
at  which  T.  N.  Halyburton  is  a  storekeeper.  I  know  the  parties  ;  so  far 
as  I  know  there  is  no  relationship  existing  on  the  part  of  the  store- 
kee])ers  to  either  of  these  distillers. 

Q.  I  understood  from  the  witness  yesterday  that  he  was  making  out 
that  Mr.  Patterson  and  ]Mr.  Gudger  were  related  to  the  distillers. — A. 
If  that  is  so,  it  is  not  to  my  knowledge  ;  I  do  not  think  they  are ;  if  there 
is  any  relationship  it  is  quite  distant. 

Cross-examination  by  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  said  Mr.  Deaver  was  fired  upon,  and  the  United  States  officers 
with  him? — A.  That  was  reported  there;  I  don't  speak  of  my  own  per- 
sonal knowledge  of  these  things,  for  I  was  not  present.  That  was  the 
repoit  that  came  to  tow^i. 

Q.  That  they  were  fired  upon? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  the  contrary — tliat  the,\  fired  on  a  man  in  Mc- 
Dowell County,  and  wete  indicted  for  it? — A.  I  know  that  was  done  in 
McDowell  County;  that  Deaver  and  a  man  had  a  difticulty  up  there; 
Deaver  shot  and  killed  a  man,  but  I  don't  know  that  it  occurred  at  that 
time. 

Q.  And  that  a  warrant  w^as  issued  for  him  by  Judge  Clark? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  I  remember  that. 

Q.  When  were  you  ai)|)ointed  in  the. revenue  service  and  what  office 
did  you  first  hold? — A.  The  first  office  in  the  revenue  service  was  that 
which  I  now  hold — as  a  general  storekeeper.  I  think  it  was  in  1879 — 
I  am  not  sure — that  I  was  appointed. 

Q.  J]y  whom  were  you  a})i)ointed  ? — A.  By  the  Secretary  of  the  Treas- 
ury, >"\Ir.  SlKMinan. 

(}.  Who  rc(M)mmended  you  ami  i>rocured  your  appointment? — A.  It 
was  through  the  collector's  office — Dr.  Mott. 

(^.  What  is  your  pay  '? — A.  I  get  four  dollars  a  <lay. 

(^.  For  <; very  day '? — A.  Eviu-y  day  except  Sunday.  My  i)ay  is  regu- 
lated in  this  way:  I  have  a  division  of  so  many  counties  in  which  there 
are  so  many  distilleries.  If  a  distillery  is  under  suspension  it  is  in  my 
charge,  anil  if  there  is  no  distillery  under  suspension,  I  get  no  i)ay. 

(^.  IJut  tiu're  is  always  one  or  mcu'c  under  suspension  in  a  distri(;t  as 
largo  as  that  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  have  six  counties. 

(}.  What  arc  your  <5ounties  .' — A.  ISnikc,  McDowell,  Mitchell,  Vaiuiey, 
^^'alallga,  and  ( 'aldwcll. 

(}.  Did  \()U  lia\c  anyiiiing  to  do  with  getting  up  a  <lelegation  to  the 
Chicago  coiiNt'iition  in  IS.SO? — A.  1  was  a  delegate  to  that  convention. 
I  don't  know  thai  1  had  anything  to  <lo  with  getting  it  uj*;  I  was  a 
mcMiltcr  of  theSth  ( "ongressibnal  districtcommittee.  I  attended  the 
meeting  of  that   conimitlee.     The  (jonnnittec  only  did   in   our  district, 


THE    SIXTH    DISTKICT    OF    NOKTH    CAROLINA.  325 

what  was  doiic  all  over  the  State  ])rior  to  the  Presidential  election;  they 
ai)})ointe(l  (IMegates.     I  was  one  of  those  dele^^atcs. 

Q.  Did  yon  not,  as  sti)vekeei>er,  while  ti  ;ivelin^'  ai-omid  on  your  duties, 
assist  in  fiettin<»-  iq)  a  delegation  fsivorable  to  a  ceitain  gentlciniin  for 
the  Presid<Micy  ? — A.  Not  as  storekeeper,  1  did  not. 

Q.  While  yon  were  in  the  exercise  of  your  duties  traveling  around, 
is  what  J  mean. — A.  No,  sir;  1  had  altogether  a  division.  I  was  in 
another  part  of  the  district,  outside  of  my  Congressional  district  alto- 
gether. 1  then  had  the  counties  of  (Jabarrns,  Gaston,  and  that  section 
((own  there,  and  others,  and  was  not  on  dnty  in  my  Congressional  dis- 
trict. I  do  not  mean^  to  say  that  1  was  not  active  in  expressing  my  own 
views  as  to  whom  I  thought  ought  to  be  a  candidate  for  President. 

Q.  The  question  1  want  to  ask  yon  is,  if  you  had  not  an  agreement 
with  Dr.  Mott  to  heli)  liim  in  getting  up  a  delegation  to  the  Clii(;ago  con- 
vention, favorable  to  Mr.  Sherman  as  a  candidate  for  the  Presidency? — 
A.  No  such  agreement.  I  thought  he  was  for  Sherman,  and  I  expressed 
my  own  views  for  Sherman,  but  I  had  my  doubts  somewhat  al)out  Mott. 
I  thought  sometimes  he  was  for  Grant,  but  there  was  no  agreement 
between  us. 

Q.  You  were  in  the  convention? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Who  bore  your  expenses  there? — A.  Myself,  and  no  one  else — not 
a  dollar. 

Q.  Were  not  your  expenses  paid  out  of  the  fund  that  was  levied  upon 
the  revenue  officers? — A.  No,  sir;  not  one  cent  of  it. 

Q.  Who  were  the  other  delegates  from  North  Carolina  to  that  conven- 
tion; can  you  recollect? — A.  Wallace  Rollins  Avas  the  other  delegate 

from  my  district.     J.  J.  Mott,  T.  N.  Cooper,  from  their  districts, 

Canaday,  Jim  Harris,  and Barringer  were  delegates  from  the 

State  at  large,  I  think. 

By  Mr.' Pool: 

Q.  Was  that  in  the  0th  district  ?— A.  Part  of  it  was  in  the  Gth  collec- 
tion district,  and  part  of  it  was  in  the  Congressional  district  from  which 
Myers  was  from. 

'  By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  I  ask  you  if  Stewart  Ellison  andJim  Harris  were  delegates  also? — 
A.  Tliey  were. 

Q.  Do  you  know  who  pai<l  their  expenses  ? — A.  I  do  not. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  it  Avas  paid  out  of  the  fund  collected  in  the  0th 
district? — A.  No,  sir;  1  do  not. 

Q.  You  never  heard  it  said  it  was  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  never  heard  Mr.  Cooi)er  or  Dr.  Mott  say  so? — \.  Never. 

Senator  McDiLL :  T  don't  think  this  is  within  the  scope  of  our  in- 
quiry— what  was  done  with  the  money  that  was  collected  for  political 
purposes ;  that  would  hardly  determine  anything  as  to  the  administra- 
tion of  the  revenue. 

The  Chairman:  We  will  pass  that  for  the  present,  and  discuss  if  after 
a  while. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  been  indicted  for  illicit  distilling  ? — A.  Never. 

Q.  Nor  for  selling  or  removing  spirituous  liquors  without  a  license? — 
A.  Never. 

Q.  At  no  time? — A.  Never,  to  my  knowledge. 

Q.  Have  you  never  been  threatened  with  an  indictment  ? —A.  I  do 
not  know  what  people  threatend. 

Q.  I  mean  by  the  officers  that  were  in  that  district  at  the  time  ? — A. 


326  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

If  SO  it  never  came  to  my  knowledge.     People  may  have  talked  about 
it  but  I  don't  know  anything-  about  it. 

Q.  I  mean  talked  officially  ? — A.  It  never  assumed  such  a  shape  as 
would  Justify  me  in  taking  any  notice  of  it. 

Q.  You  Imve  been  interested  as  a  partner  with  Peter  M.  Mull,  of  Ca- 
tawba County  ? — A.  In  what  way  ? 

Q.  In  an  illicit  whisky  distillery? — A.  Xo,  sir;  I  never  was.  I  was 
a  merchant  in  Morganton  at  one  time,  and  I  sold  those  people  down  there 
corn. 

Q.  Whom  did  you  sell  corn  to  ? — A.  I  sold  corn  to  Mull,  and  bought 
corn  for  Mull  frequently ;  but  as  to  saying  I  was  interested  in  w^hat  Mull 
did  with  the  corn,  I  will  say  that  I  liad  no  interest  in  it  at  all. 

Q.  Did  3'ou  not  know  that  Mull  was  running  without  a  license? — A. 
I  did  not  know  it. 

Q.  You  did  know  that  he  was  ruuning  a  distillery? — A.  I  did  not 
know  that.     I  believed  he  was. 

Q.  You  did  not  know  it  1 — A.  Never,  to  my  own  knowledge.  I  never 
was  in  a  blockade  distillery  in  my  life. 

Q.  You  were  told  that  he  was  running  one? — A.  I  d(Fnot  remember. 
I  do  not  know  that  I  was  told. 

Q.  Did  you  not  get  a  quantity  of  whisky  manufactured  at  his  distil- 
lery ? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  I  ever  did.  Mull  bronght  me  a  small  quan- 
tity of  whisky  at  one  time,  but  I  never  got  any  considerable  quantity 
of  whisky  from  him. 

Q.  What  did  you  do  with  that  whisky  you  got  from  him"? — A.  I  do 
not  know  what  I  did  with  it.  I  might  have  given  it  out  to  some  parties ; 
I  never  sold  it. 

Q.  You  never  got  any  from  him  that  you  sold  ? — A.  Oh  no  ;  he  sent, 
or  might  have  brought  me  a  gallon  or  so  up  to  the  store. 

*'Q.  Was  not  Mull's  distillery  afterwards  seized  by  the  ofticers  ? — A.  I  do 
not  know  what  year  this  was  in.  This  was  either  the  summer  of  1869 
or  1870,  or  about  that  time.  There  were  frequently  distilleries  seized 
down  there.  1  did  not  know  that  Peter  Mull's  distillery  was  ever  seized. 
Jake  Mull  was  the  most  noted  blockader  of  that  country. 

Q.  tie  was  a  brother  of  Peter's? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  say  you  did  not  have  any  pecuniar}'  interest  whatsoever  in 
tliat  distillery  of  ^lull's  ? — A.  I  do  emphatically;  no! 

Q.  And  you  know  you  have  not  received  a  quantity  of  whisky  from 
Mull  and  sold  it  ? — A.  I  do;  I  never  sold  any  whiskA"  from  Mull  in  my 
life. 

Q.  Have  you  at  any  time  been  interested  in  an  illicit  distillery  under 
the  sui)ervision  of  Peter  Hudson? — A.  Never,  sir. 

Q.  Did  he  run  an  illicit  distillery  ? — A.  If  he  did,  I  do  not  know  it. 

Q.  Did  you  not  iinderstaiid,  or  hear,  that  it  was  an  illicit  distillery 
that  Ik'  nm  ? — A.  1  do  not  kiiowthiit  he  ever  ran  any.  I  l)arely  know 
the  man  fioin  r«'j)nt;ilion.  1  know  there  is  su(;h  a  name  as  that  down 
tliere. 

(^.   Did  \<)U  receive/  any  whisky  fiom  him  ibr  sale  ? — A.  Never. 

(}.  \i>\i  ne\<'r  sold  any  Ibr  him,  oi'  on  aix'onnt  of  that  distillery? — A. 
I  iieM'i'  sold  any  whisky  in  my  liCe  for  anybody  or  to  anybody.  I  may 
liave  written  for  otlnu-  |»arties  about  dealing  in  it. 

(^.  Did  you  (n'er  sell  him  any  coin  '. — A.  I  do  not  know  that  I  did.  I 
might  Iia\e  done  so. 

i).   Did  yon  know  Jonas   Kanisay  if — A.   Yes,  sir;  1  know  him. 

(,),   Did  he  run  adistillery  '. — A.   lie  was  indicted  lor  illicit  distilling. 

(^>.   I''oi-  running  an  iilieil  distiller.\  '! — A.   Yes,  sir;    1  think  he  was. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  327 

Q.  Did  you  have  an  interest  in  liis  distillery? — A.  Xo,  sir;  I  never 
lia<l  any  interest  in  any  of  those  distilleries.  I  sold  those  people  corn, 
as  I  told  yon. 

Q.  When  you  say  "  thos<i  people"  you  mean  the  distillers  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  the  mountain  ])eople;  they  might  have  been  distillers  or  not;  they 
bought  considerable  corn. 

Q.  How  did  you  get  your  pay  ? — A.  They  paid  me  the  money. 

Q.  You  did  not  at  that  time,  from  any  of  those  mentioned,  receive 
your  pay  iu  whisky  ? — A.  No,  sir  ;  Mull  brought  me  a  gallon  or  two  of 
whisky  at  one  time,  but  I  had  no  interest  in  any  of  these  distilleries  at 
all,  nor  in  any  other  distilleries. 

Q.  Did  you  kuow  Harvey  York  and  Waighstel  York? — A.  I  did. 

Q.  Were  they  not  illicit  distillers  by  reputation  ? — A.  Yes ;  by  rep- 
utation. 

Q.  Do  you  know  that  fact  of  your  own  knowledge  ? — A.  I  do  not 
know  it  of  my  own  knowledge;  I  never  saw  them  distilling.  That  is 
the  only  way  1  could  know  it  of  my  own  knowledge.  I  believe  they 
were. 

Q.  Did  3'ou  have  any  interest  iu  their  distilleries  1 — A.  ISoue. 

Q.  Pecuniary  or  otherwise  f — A.  Xoue ;  I  sold  them  corn  and  many 
■others. 

Q.  Did  you  know  they  were  making  it  into  whisky? — A.  No  ;  I  did 
not. 

Q.  You  said  so  ? — A.  I  presumed  thej^  were  going  to  make  it  into 
whisky. 

Q.  Did  they  not  tell  you  they  were  making  whisky  ? — A.  I  do  not 
know  that  they  ever  did;  that  was  my  understanding  about  it — that 
they  were  using  the  corn  for  that  purpose. 

Q.  Did  you  receive  any  whisky  or  other  returns  from  that  distillery 
in  any  shape  or  form? — A.  From  the  Yorks'  distillery? 

Q.  Yes? — A.  Nothing  but  money  was  ever  paid  me  for  anything  I 
ever  sold  them. 

Q.  You  sold  them  nothing  but  corn! — A.  I  may  have  sold  them  other 
goods. 

Q.  I  mean  that  is  all  you  did  towards  tlieir  business,  if  they  were  in 
that  business  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Were  you  interested  at  any  time  with  R.  A.  Cobb  in  running  a 
licensed  government  distiller3'? — A.  I  may  have  been  interested  in- 
directly in  that  distillery,  in  this  way;  I  furnished  Cobb  with  corn,  and 
sold  it  to  him  on  credit.  That  is  the  only  way  I  possibly  could  liave 
been.  I  had  lU)  direct  inteiest  iu  it.  The  proceeds  of  the  same  from  the 
men  to  whom  he  sold  it  might  have  been  transmitted  to  me  aiul  placed 
to  his  credit;  in  that  way  that  is  the  only  way  i)ossil)le  I  could  have 
been  interested  in  it. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  receiv^e  from  R.A.Cobb's  distillery  any  compensa- 
tion whatsoever  other  than  the  price  of  your  corn  ? — A.  I  do  not  know 
that  I  did. 

Q.  You  would  know  it  if  it  had  been  so? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  say  I  had 
no  interest  in  the  profits  of  his  concern  at  all. 

Q.  You  just  sold  him  his  corn  on  credit,  and  received  the  claims  of 
men  who  bought  whisky  from  him  in  ])ayment  of  your  corn? — A.  The 
only  way  I  could  have  been  considered  interested  was  that  the  whisky 
made  shauld  be  liable  for  the  corn  from  which  it  was  manufactured. 

Q.  You  held  a  sort  of  lien  upon  the  whisky  for  the  i)ayment  of  your 
corn? — A.  Yes,  sir;  but  not  only  for  the  corn  tliat  I  let  Cobb  have,  but 
for  the  money. 


328  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Wliat  Avere  yon  to  get  for  the  use  of  your  money  ? — A.  Nothing  more 
tbau  the  interest  of  it;  the  money  was  generally  returned  in  a  short 
time;  It  was  a  matter  of  accommodation. 

Q.  It  was  Cobb's  distillery,  was  it? — A.  Cobb  ran  the  distillery  there 
in  his  own  name;  .ncs,  sir. 

Q.  Was  he  not  storekeeper  to  the  distillery  at  the  same  time? — A. 
IS'o,  sir. 

Q.  Who  was  ? — A.  Will  McDowell  was  storekeeper  there  at  one  time^ 
and  I  do  not  knovp  who  else;  I  remember  he  was. 

Q.  How  long  was  that  distillery  kept  up  by  Cobb  ? — A.  I  cannot  tell 
you;  some  months. 

Q.  Who  took  Cobb's  place  when  he  retired,  or  did  he  retire! — A.  I 
think  that  no  one  took  his  place.  There  was  a  man  by  the  imme  of 
Hudson  or  Hollow;  they  ran  a  distilleiy  there  or  near  the  same  place, 
and  had  a  ]Mr.  Hi  nnessee  as  storekeeper  afterwards. 

Q.  What  distillery  was  Cobb  storekeeper  at? — A.  Cobb  was  a  store- 
keeper years  ago;  I  do  not  know  that  he  was  ever  a  storekeeper  after 
the  consolidation  of  the  district.  The  time  Cobb  was  storekeeper  was 
when  Eollins  was  collector  of  the  <listrict.  I  do  not  know  that  he  ever 
was  storekeei)er  under  Mott.  I  do  not  now  remember;  he  might  have 
been;  I  do  not  mean  to  be  positive  on  that  i)oiut.  He  was  storekeeiier 
to  Walker. 

Q.  Were  you  interested  in  the  same  way,  or  in  any  other  way,  in  any 
licensed  distillery? — A.  I  furnished  old  man  Wesley  Walker  corn  in 
the  same  way. 

Q.  Who  was  his  storekeeper? — A.  Cobb  was  his  storekeej)er.  He 
had  several.  Cobb  was  storekeeper  at  the  time  I  furnished  this  corn 
to  him. 

Q.  Who  paid  you  for  corn  you  furnished  to  Walker? — A.  Walker 
did  himself,  and  he  may  have  given  me  orders  on  different  men. 

Q.  Did  he  give  you  orders  on  Cobb? — A.  I  do  not  remember.  Cobb 
may  ha\e  i)aid  me  some  money  for  him ;  but  I  do  not  remember  about 
that. 

Q.  Have  you  no  reason  whatever  to  suppose  that  Cobb  was  inter- 
ested in  Walker's  distillery  while  he  was  storekeeper? 

Mr.  Pool.  There  is  a  question,  if  you  will  allow  me,  about  inquiries 
as  to  that  time.  The  seventh  district  was  not  then  consolidated  with 
the  sixth;  it  was  before  the  consolidation,  and  it  seems  to  me  it  is  a 
question  whether  this  investigation  can  go  into  the  seventh  district 
before  it  was  ])ut  into  the  sixth,  under  the  resolution  on  which  this 
committee  Avas  ap]>oiiited. 

The  ^\'^J'I^}J':ss.  I  wish  to  state  this,  tliat  all  the  transactions,  remote 
or  dire(;t,  that  I  have  had  with  these  peo]d('  were  ])rior  to  1870. 

Mr.  Pool.  Was  that  when  the  consolidation  took  ])lace? 

'The  \\i'j'.\ESS.  That  was  i>rior  to  the  consolidation. 

The  CiiAiwMAN.  When  was  the  consolidation  ''. 

Tiie  Witness.  Jt  was  in.  the  year  187(i.  I  tliiidv. 

Senator  McDiLL.  I  snppose,  strictly,  <>ni'  in\('stigation  is  confined  to 
the-  present  sixth. 

The  CiiAiK'MAN.  Tiie  ]>resent  sixth  cniliraccs  l)oth  districts. 

Mr.  Tool,.  Of  course  you  can  go  into  the  sixth  <listrict  before  consol- 
idation ;  lint  w  iiether  you  can  go  into  tln^  seventh  before  consolidation 
is  a  (|uest ion. 

Senator  McDil.i,.    Is  1  his  |i;ii  t  icnhir  locality  part  of  the  sixth  now? 

The  ( 'II  \ii:m  \  \.   ^■<•s,  sir. 

Scnatoi'  .McDii.L.    It  seems  to  me  if  it  is  now  in  the  sixth,  the  resolu- 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA  329 

tion  is  broad  euoug-h  to  cover  it.  There  is  no  limitation  to  time.  This 
district  now  consists  of  34  counties,  and  while  it  opens  i\\>  a  very  broad 
field  for  investigation,  it  seems  to  me  it  is  contemi»lated  in  the  language 
of  the  resolution. 

The  OiiAiRMAN.   r  think  so,  undoubtedly. 

(To  the  witness.)  You  are  aware  of  your  rights  in  this  matter,  Mr. 
Pearson,  and   I  am  going  to  ask  you  some  questions  which  you  can  de-* 
cline  to  answer  if  you  see  pro])er. 

Q.  Did  you  at  any  time  aid  any  of  these  distillers  whom  you  have 
mentioned  in  procuring  exhausted  stamped  barrels  to  be  refilled  with 
illicit  whisky! — A.  IS  ever. 

Q.  Did  you  never  purchase  any  exhausted  barrels  for  any  of  these 
distillers  ? — A.  Neveri 

Q.  Did  you  never  tell  them  where  they  could  get  them? — A.  Never j 
I  remember  ordering  for  old  man  Walker  some  barrels  from  Salisbury 
from  a  merchant  there;  they  were  shipped  up  there  on  the  train  just  as 
any  other  distiller  would  order  barrels.  Nothing  was  said  about  stamps 
or  anything  of  that  sort.  I  recollect  on  another  occasion  buying  some 
barrels  for  a  man  named  Hoffman,  and  they  laid  there  in  Morgantowu 
for  months  before  he  took  them.  They  may  have  beeu  used,  but  the 
stamps  were  certainly  canceled. 

Q.  Were  you  sure  of  that?  Did  you  see  them  all? — A.  I  did  not  see 
them  all;  I  just  presume  so.  There  was  no  disposition  to  defraud,  or 
there  would  have  been  some  secrecy  about  it. 

Q.  Where  did  they  lie! — A.  In  the  warehouse  in  the  rear  of  Major 
Wilson's  store;  the  property  belonged  to  him,  but  it  was  a  merchant's 
store ;  the  barrels  belonged  to  L.  P.  Henderson,  who  had  been  a  dis- 
tiller. 

Q.  Were  you  not  accused  of  that  and  threatened  with  indictment  on 
account  of  these  barrels  ! — A.  Those  ijarticular  barrels  ! 

Q.  Some  barrels  like  those  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  I  was. 

Q.  For  the  use  of  uncanceled  stamped  barrels? — A.  If  so,  it  was 
never  carried  into  execution.  There  was  a  rumor  came  to  me  about  it, 
and  I  sat  down  and  wrote  a  letter  to  Major  Wagoner,  who  was  the  rev- 
enue agent,  demanding  an  investigation  of  any  such  matters  brought 
against  me.  I  wrote  to  him  at  Greensboro.  I  desire  to  state  now,  in 
explanation  of  this  matter  which  the  chairman  has  asked  me  about,  I 
was  a  i)ublic  oflUcer  in  that  county  of  Burke — a  clerk  of  court — which 
was  a  large  Democratic  county.  These  people  were  my  friends  I 
might  have  acted  in  a  way  that  might  have  misled  and  deceived 
I)eople.  I  kept  on  the  good  side  of  everybody,  and  was  always  elected 
clerk.  When  I  ran  for  ofltice  in  that  county,  though  I  was  a  Kepubli- 
can,  I  was  politic  and  prudent,  and  all  that  sort  of  thing,  and  that  may 
not  have  been  understood  by  the  revenue  oflQcers;  but  I  was  never  in- 
dicted ;  and  if  they  looked  into  the  matter,  as  I  judge  they  did,  the  re- 
sult showed  that  they  could  not  sustain  any  indictment. 

Q.  You  made  friends,  then,  of  the  distillers!— A.  With  everybody. 

Q.  With  everybody,  including  tht^  distillers! — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  Those  bad  fellows  down  there  in  the  South  Mountains  that  were 
violating  the  law,  you  made  friends  with  them! — A.  Yes,  -sir;  the  first 
time  I  ran  for  clerk,  out  of  a  hundred  and  three  votes  (;ast  at  that  box 
I  got  a  hundred  of  them.  The  next  time  it  turned  out  they  were  not  so 
friendly;  I  only  carried  that  box  by  eight  votes. 

Q.  When  yoii  were  appointed  as  an  ofiticer  in  the  internal  revenue, 
did  not  Dr.  Mott  tell  you  there  had  been  those  kind  of  charges  made 
against  you  I— A.  I  do  not  think  he  did.     Dr.  Mott  may  have  heard  of 


330  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

those  things  himself.  I  never  sought  any  position  in  the  revenue  serv- 
ice x>i"ior  to  the  time  I  did.  I  was  engaged  there  as  a  clerk,  and  it  did 
not  become  me  to  run  on  the  revenue  side.  It  was  not  to  my  interest 
to  do  it.  I  told  him  this  when  I  did  apply  for  a  position  ;  be  liad  con- 
fidence in  my  capacity,  integrity,  and  eveiytliing  else  of  that  sort,  and 
said  I  would  ha^•e  to  give  up  tlie  cU'rkshi]>  to  accei)t  this  ])osition. 
»     Q.  Was  Mr.  Cobb  indicted  in  the  Federal  courts  f — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  When  ? — A.  I  cannot  tell  you  the  date ;  it  was  when  Mr.  Chap- 
man was  in  that  district  as  revenue  agent  that  he  was  indicted.  I  think 
it  was  between  187(5  and  1878. 

Q.  What  was  he  indicted  for  ? — A.  For  some  kind  of  frauds,  1  think. 
Among  other  things  that  were  charged  against  him  was  refilling  bar- 
rels, or  assisting  in  some  way  about  that. 

Q.  When  he  was  indicted  he  was  storekeeper,  was  he  not  ? — A.  I  do 
not  think  he  was  acting  as  storekeeper  at  the  time. 

Q.  What  capacity  was  he  acting  in? — A.  I  do  not  think  he  was  act- 
ing in  any  capacity.  I  think  he  was  off"  duty.  It  may  have  been  while 
he  was  distilling. 

Q.  You  think  he  was  not  indicted  for  conduct  while  on  duty  as  store- 
keeper f — A.  I  do  not  think  he  was — that  is  not  my  recollection  of  it. 

Q.  What  became  of  the  indictment ! — A.  I  do  not  know.  Mr.  Chair- 
man was  investigating  into  the  matter  ;  he  was  the  revenue  agent ;  he 
had  the  disposition  of  it. 

Q.  IJid  not  Mr.  Cobb  plead  guilty  in  the  court  ? — A.  He  may  have 
done  so  or  may  not.  I  cannot  tell  you  of  my  own  knowledge.  I  think 
thei'e  was  some  compromise  in  the  matter  of  that  sort. 

Q.  Did  not  Mr.  Cobb  consult  you  about  his  troubles  at  the  time  he 
"was  indicted? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  talked  to  me  a  good  deal  about  it. 

Q.  Did  he  not  admit  that  he  had  defrauded  the  government  ? — A.  I 
cannot  tell  you  his  conversation  with  me.  It  was  more  like  that  with 
an  attorney;  and  I  would  not  feel  at  liberty  to  state  what  he  did  say. 

Q.  You  are  not  a  practicing  lawyer  f — A.  Not  a  practicing  attorney, 
but  I  had  a  good  deal  to  do  for  these  people  in  that  capacity  in  the  Fed- 
eral courts. 

Q.  I  sup[)ose  you  can  hardly  plead  the  privileges  of  an  attorney  in 
that  case  '! — A.  I  would  not  like  to  say  what  he  had  said  to  me.  Nor 
do  I  want  to  be  understood  that  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  ground  that 
it  would  criminate  myself. 

Q.  That  would  criminate,  not  you,  but  another  num — what  he  had  said 
to  you  ;  tlie  case  is  already  disposed  of  f — A.  I  do  not  remember  what 
disi)osition  was  made  of  the  indictment.  If  I  saw  what  he  said;  I  can- 
not tell  you  what  he  said  unless  I  saw  the  record. 

(^.  Your  conversation  is  not  on  the  record  if  it  was  conlidential? — 
A.  No,  sir. 

(}.  If  he  plead  guilty  there  was  some  compromise  in  the  matter.  I 
will  |)Mt  the  (|nestion  to  yon  in  this  way:  you  leained  from  om^  source 
or  another,  which  satislied  you  that  Cobb  was  guilty  ? — A.  lean  only 
give  yon  my  opinion  about  that. 

().  \'our  opinion  is  what  we  want. — A.  1  do  not  like  to  give  an 
opinion  about  a  man  wlioiii  1  ha\c  some  regard  for.  It  would  only  be 
a  matter  of  opinion. 

'I'he  ('ifAllMlAN  (t<»  t  he.  commit  Ice).  Do  you  think  the  witness  is  at 
liberty  to  (lecliiM'  answering  that  (pu'stion  '? 

Scimtiii-  McDri.i,.   I  ()o  not  think  there  is  any  legal   (^laim   tlnit  can 

exciiiiil    liilil. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  331 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Did  you  have  reason  to  believe  tliat  lie.  Avas  j^uilty  ?—  A.  If  being- 
indicted,  and  a  number  of  witnesses  being-  summoned,  and  his  anxiety 
about  the  matter  woukl  be  reason  for  it,  1  should  have  reason  for  be- 
lieving he  was  guilty. 

Q.  Did  you  have  any  other  reasou  except  his  anxiety,  and  his  being 
indicted,  to  believe  so? — A.  I  presume  Cobb  was  guilty  of  violation  of 
the  law. 

Q.  jSTow,  did  you  nwt  afterwards  recommend  liim  to  Dr.  ]\Iott  for  ap- 
pointment as  special  deputy  collector? — A.  I  <lid. 

Q.  With  full  knowledge  of  his  guilt,  you  did  that? — A.  Yes,  sir.  I 
want  to  explain  that  matter.  Mr.  ('hapman,  the  revenue  agent,  he 
was  with  Cobb  in  this  whole  transaction.  Cobb  had  rendered  xaluable 
assistance  in  executing  the  law,  and  his  conduct  after  that  tiling  was 
such  as  to  slnnv  me — -justify  me  in  that  recommendation — that  he  was 
sincerely  sorry  for  his  past  conduct,  and  desirous  to  retrieve  himself  by 
executing  the  law,  and  Itecoming  a  law-abiding  good  citizen.  And  with 
that  view  I  did  it,  and  I  was  not  wrong  in  what  I  did.  He  rendered 
very  valuable  assistance;  so  mucli  so,  that  he  received  the  approbation 
of  the  special  agents  in  that  district. 

Q.  But  he  has  since  been  indicted  for  nmking  out  false  vouchers. — 
A.  I  learned  there  was  a  warrant  or  something  of  that  sort  sworn  out 
against  him  by  some  parties  in  Asheville  for  making  out  accounts  that 
were  alleged  to  l)e  false;  I  do  not  know  that  of  my  own  knowledge; 
that  matter  is  still  undergoing  investigation.  I  have  only  got  his 
word  for  it;  he  says  he  can  vindicate  himself  entirely. 

Q.  Did  you  luive  any  conversation  or  correspondence  with  Dr.  Mott 
about  these  charges  against  Cobb  when  you  urged  his  reappointment? — 
A.  The  past  charges? 

Q.  Yes,  sir;  the  past  charges. — A.  I  do  not  think  I  had  any  corre- 
spondence. What  I  said  to  Dr.  Mott  I  said  to  him  in  person.  We  had 
a  conversation  aboTit  it.  He  did  speak  about  them.  I  told  him  of  Cobb's 
conduct  and  his  assurance  of  what  lie  intended  to  be  in  the  future,  and 
all  that  sort  of  thing.  Immediately  after  liearing  of  this  indictment  at 
Asheville  I  informed  the  doctor  of  it. 

Q.  Dr.  Mott? — A  Y"es,  sir,  I  did;  and  he  was  removed  instantly. 
The  doctor  was  very  much  aggravated  and  incensed  at  it.  He  said  to 
me,  "  You  see  you  have  been  disa[)pointed,"  or  something  of  that  sort. 

Q.  Did  you  not  urge  upon  Dr.  Mott  some  reasou  of  a  political  nature 
for  reappointing  Col)b  ? — A.  I  may  have  said  that  Cobb  was  a  good 
Republican,  which  he  is. 

Q.  And  an  active  man  in  the  party? — A.  I  might  have  said  that; 
yes,  sir.     Do  not  doubt  but  what  I  did. 

Q.  What  position  was  he  given — deputy  collector  was  it  not? — A. 
Si)ecial  deputy  collector. 

Q.  How  many  men  wen^  placed  in  his  charge? — A.  The  last  appoint- 
ment he  was  under  the  charge  of  one  man  himself.  Alexander  Lilling- 
ton  has  the  chaige  of  the  western  end  of  the  district,  and  Cobb  was 
with  him  as  assistant. 

Q.  What  salary  did  he  draw? — A.  I  do  not  know  of  my  own  knowl- 
edge. I  think  the  pay  of  that  position  was  about  $125  per  month ;  that 
is  what  used  to  be  the  case  with  special  force  deputies.  I  do  not  know 
what  his  salary  was.     I  cannot  tell. 

Q.  How  many  men  were  under  him  during  those  raids '? — A.  Tender 
the  last  appointment  I  procured  for  Cobb  there  was  no  one  under  him. 


332  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

He  was  with  Lilliugtoii.     Lilliiigtou  and  be  alone  constituted  the  police 
force  of  tlnit  end  of  the  district. 

Q.  Was  it  not  peculiar  for  a  subordinate  and  not  the  coniunmder  to 
receive  the  praises  of  the  department? — A.  I  was  si)eakinji;'  of  the  spe(;ial 
force  belore  it  was  <lisl>anded.  The  indictment  a^^ainst  Cobb  occiirn^d 
in  1878,  when  ]Mr.  Chapman  was  there.  I  think  the  thing  was  arranged. 
Mr.  Chapman  did  not  object  to  Mr.  Cobb's  l)eing  appointed  in  the  serv- 
ice because  he  could  render  valuable  assistance  in  suppressing-  this 
blockading.  He  was  put  on  the  special  force.  The  special  force  was 
disbandetl  and  Cobb  was  out  of  employment  before  he  was  put  in  with 
Lillington,  and  it  was  during  the  time  he  was  with  Lillington  that  he 
was  indicted  for  this  irregularity  at  Asheville. 
.  Q.  What  was  the  duty  of  this  squad? — A.  Police  duty. 

Q.  Patrolling  the  district  ? — A.  Ves,  sir. 

Q.  Arresting  violators  of  the  law,  illicit  whisky  distillers,  and  so  on  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Was  Cobb  ever  used  at  any  time,  and  his  subordinates,  to  aid  in 
getting  up  delegations  for  the  Chicago  convention  f — A.  If  he  was  I 
do  not  know  it. 

Q.  Did  he  not  do  some  of  that  work  under  your  instructions  ? — A.  Mr. 
Cobb  and  I  conferred  together  as  anybody  would  in  the  political  cam- 
paign. 

Q.  What  was  the  substance  of  jour  conference  ? — A.  I  cannot  tell 

you.     We  laid  plans  to  get  away  with  the  Bourbon  crowd,  if  we  could. 

'     Q.  I  am  speaking  with  reference  to  the  Chicago  convention  ? — A.  We 

laid  plans  to  get  away  with  those  of  our  own  crowd  that  were  opposed 

to  us.     I  cannot  tell  you  what  did  occur. 

Q.  Did  Cobb  and  Ms  squad  make  any  arrests  in  Burke  County  for 
violation  of  the  revenue  laws  ? — A.  I  cannot  tell  you.  I  think  they  did. 
Arrests  were  being  matle  there  more  or  less  all  the  time.  Arrests  were 
being  made  in  this  way:  A  warrant  was  sworn  out  and  placed  in  the 
hands  of  the  marshal,  and  the  marshal  brought  the  man  before  the 
commissioner. 

Q.  Can  you  name  any  cases  of  arrests  during  that  time? — A.  I  can- 
not.    My  duties  at  that  time  were  in  another  portion  of  the  district. 

Q.  You  were  chiefly  interested,  then,  in  getting  away  with  the  Bour- 
bon crowd? — A.  Yes,  sir;  we  went  for  defeating  Jarvis  and  Hancock. 

Q.  Can  you  give  me  an  instance  of  any  arrests  made  in  the  district 
during  that  cam]iaign  by  Cobb  and  his  squad  "I — A.  1  could  not  with- 
out studying  about  the  matter.  I  did  not  i)ay  any  attention  to  other 
portions  of  the  district.  1  had  nothing  to  do  with  their  duties  what- 
ever, ;iiid  since  I  hav<^  been  in  the  revenue  service  I  have  taken  partic- 
ular i)ains  to  attend  to  my  own  business  and  leaver  others  aloiu* ;  tried 
to  do  my  duties  correctly  and  pi-operly. 

(^>.  Who  haided  the  Ifcpuhlicau  oflicers  around  from  one  ])lace  to 
another  and  ])aid  their  exi)enses  in  that  district? — A.  1  do  not  know, 
sir.  I  myself  met  -Judge  BuxtAUi  and  Mr.  I'>verett,  and  others  u\)  in 
.McDowell  County,  and  1  came  with  them  from  thereto  Uridgewater,  in 
P.urke  (bounty,  on  the  lailroad.  1  had  a  carriage  myself,  and  brought 
tlM'in  to  Morgaiiton  and  entertained  them  that  night  in  the  hotel,  and 
sent  tlieni  IVom  there  to  their  next  appointnuMit  on  John's  Uiver. 

(}.  Who  did  voii  send  to  take  them  over  tliere  ? — A.  Cobb  and  New- 
ton llalylmrton  went  along.  Ilid.vbmt(ui  was  a  storekeeper  and  Cobb 
was  a  specjiil  dfpiilA-.  I  know  tli:il  ll;il vlmrtoii  w;is  not  on  duty  or  in 
the  ser\ief  :il   t  li;it  I  line. 

(}.    lie  imd  ;i  coiiiiiiissiou  t — A.   N«i,  sir;   not  at  tluit  time. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  333 

Q.  I  iiske<l  you  if  that  sciuad  and  (V)l)l)di(l  not  do  almost  exclusively 
political  work  during  that  snnnnci-  and  fall  ? — A.  If  so,  I  did  not  know- 
it.  Xone  of  the  s(jnad  were  with  these  lientlemen  at  this  appointment 
that  I  si>oke  of.  1  do  not  think  Cohl*  himself  was  at  Jiridgcwater.  I 
am  sure  none  of  them  were  in  .McDowell  County. 

Q.  All  the  service  they  performed  that  fall  was  of  a  jtolitical  char- 
acter, instead  of  for  the  revenue? — A.  I  think  not;  that  is  my  ojjinion. 
L  uever  had  any  such  idea  that  they  were  ]>erforminf;-  political  woik 
instead  ot  revenue  work.  These  two  occasions  that  I  was  with  those 
<;entlemen  there  was  uone  of  the  squad  present. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  Cobb  is  iH)t  indicted  now  for  making  out  false 
vouchers  for  ser%'ices  purporting  to  have  been  rendered  during  that 
same  campaign  ?  — A.  I  do  not  know  anything  about  it  of  my  own 
knowledge.  1  will  answer  that  question  in  this  way.  I  understood 
that  what  he  was  indicted  for,  and  brought  u[)  there  in  Asheville,  was, 
when  he  was  attending  the  last  Federal  court,  it  was  nothing  for  what 
he  had  done  in  the  canii)aign  ar  all  with  vouchers,  but  for  something 
altogether  since. 

Q.  Who  is  the  district  attorney  for  the  district  f — A.  James  K.  l>oyd. 

Q.  Are  you  any  connection  of  his  in  any  way? — A.  Xone.  lie  mar- 
ried a  Holt,  and  so  d.o  1.  But  I  do  not  think  our  wives  are  in  any 
way  related. 

Q.  You  and  Mr.  Boyd  are  friends  ? — A.  I  am  not  intimate  with  him. 
I  know  him. 

Q.  Have  you  promised  to  use  your  inHuence  with  Mr.  Boyd  to  get 
Cobb  out  of  this  second  trouble  ? — A.  I  cannot  answer  that  question  in 
that  sort  of  way.  1  will  tell  you  what  I  did  do:  When  in  Asheville  at 
the  Federal  court  I  S[)oke  to  the  district  attorney  about  the  nnitter, 
but  as  to  j)roinising  anything  of  that  sort  it  is  not  so.  I  was  requested 
to  do  so,  and  1  s])oke  to  him,  but  the  thing  was  not  in  his  court  and  he 
could  not  take  any  cognizance  of  it.  It  had  not  reached  his  court  at 
the  time  I  was  there. 

Q.  You  spoke  to  him  about  it  in  behalf  of  'Sir.  Cobl)  when  it  did  get 
into  his  court? — A.  Xo;  1  thought  it  was  in  his  court.  He  told  me  it 
was  not.  I  desired  that  Cobb  shoidd  nmke  the  explanation  to  him 
about  the  matter  as  he  had  explained  it  to  me,  be(;ause  if  Cobl)'s  ex- 
planation was  true,  it  was  a  frivolous  and  nmlicious  indictment. 

Q.  Do  you  know  who  got  it  up  ? — A.  I  know  what  was  told  me. 

Q.  That  is  what  I  mean,  of  course. — A.  The  Douglass  faction  there, 
if  I  may  be  allowed  to  call  them  that,  all  said  to  be  unfriendly  to  the 
collector,  and  it  was  a  lick  at  him  over  Cobb's  shoulders.  It  was  a 
mere  matter,  he  told  me,  of  board.  Cobb  was  boarding  at  one  hotel,  and 
he  had  so  mnch  board  to  ])ay  per  day,  and  he  charged  what  the  bal- 
ance of  the  hotels  charged.  That  is  the  wa.^^  he  has  explained  it  to  me; 
and  these  fellows  thought  that  it  would  affect  Dr.  Mott  in  some  way, 
and  they  got  hold  of  one  of  his  vouchers  and  got  him  into  trouble. 

Q.  That  is  the  way  you  recollect  it. — A.  Yes,  sir;  so  I  was  told,  I  have 
reason  to  beiie\  e  that  was  the  character  of  it. 

Q.  Does  Dr.  Mott  ever  consult  you  about  the  appointment  of  stoie- 
keepers  and  gangers  in  your  district  ? — A.  In  my  innnediate  locality 
he  does,  or  rather  I  have  consulted  him  mostly  about  it.  I  will  say 
another  thing,  that  he  has  said  to  n  e  to  be  very  careful  and  ])articular, 
and  that  he  would  hold  me  strictly  responsible  for  mistakes  of  that  sort 
made,  and  wherever  a  mistake  was  made  I  have  written  to  him  at  once 
about  it,  and  the  matter  has  been  remedied  by  the  party  not  getting 


334  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

work,  and  a  storekeeper  might  as  well  be  removed  as  to  be  without 
work. 

Q.  A  great  many  persons  have  been  recommended  by  Dr.  Mott  at 
your  suggestion  ? — A.  I  could  not  tell  you  a  great  many ;  probably  eight 
or  teu. 

Q.  Can  you  give  me  the  n^tuies  of  them? — A.  I  have  recommended 
T.  K.  Halyburton  for  one,  E.  S.  Walton  for  another. 

Q.  And  who  else? — A.  Richard  Williams  and  some  others. 

Q.  What  places  were  they  to  getres])ectively  ? — A.  To  be  api)ointed 
storekeepers— all  these  men  that  I  have  spoken  to  you  about. 

Q.  Did  you  have  any  conversation  on  the  subject  of  suppressing- 
frauds  in  Burke  County,  with  T.  K.  Davis,  who  was  examined  here  the 
other  day! — A.  Yes,  sir;  frequently. 

Q.  Did  you  express  any  anxiety  to  him  e\er  about  stopping  viola- 
tions of  the  law  in  your  county  ? — A.  I  rendered  assistance  to  him  to  do 
so,  and  31r.  Cobb  has  rendered  very  active  assistance  in  person.  I  have 
consulted  with  him  about  the  matter,  aud  advised  him  what  sort  of 
course  he  ought  to  pursue. 

Q.  Confidentially? — A.  Yes,  sir;  this  was  i)rior  to  my  connection 
Avith  tlie  internal-revenue  service. 

Q.  That  is  what  I  mean. — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  have  had  conversations  with 
him  frequently. 

Q.  Did  he  advise  and  tell  you  in  these  conversations  what  places  he 
was  going  to  visit,  and  where  he  exjiected  to  find  violations  of  law,  and 
so  on  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  he  has  done  so. 

Q.  Did  you  at  any  time  give  notice  to  the  ])arties  that  he  was  about 
to  visit  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  In  order  to  keep  on  good  terms  with  tliem  ? — A.  Xo,  sir  ;  that  was 
alleged  to  me  at  one  time  in  the  early  part  of  1808,  or  along  there. 

Q.  You  did  not  at  any  tiuie  send  any  notices  or  procure  them  to  be 
sent  to  these  peoi)le? — A.  I  have  used  my  intluence  in  that  division  in 
a  double  sort  of  way.  I  wanted  him  to  be  light  on  these  people  if  they 
got  into  trouble — I  knew  it  was  wrong,  of  course,  the  violation  of  these 
laws,  and  have  never  encouraged  it.  But  if  these  men  got  into  trouble 
T  always  tried  to  get  them  out  by  ijursuing  a  begging  sort  of  policy, 
and  always  had  Davis's  assistance  in  these  eftbrts  to  do  it. 

Q.  Do  you  deny  em])]iatically  you  sent  notices  to  those  engaged  in 
illicit  distilling,  or  in  any  other  violations  of  the  law,  or  advised  them 
that  sonu;  one  was  coming,  and  to  look  out? — A.  As  to  my  being  any 
such  messenger  I  deny  it  enq^hatically. 

(^.  Have  you  agreed  to  recommend  Cobb  for  reappointment  if  he 
should  get  out  of  tliis  scrape? — A.   I  don't  know  tliat  1  have. 

Q.  Have  you  not  spoken  to  Dr.  Mott  about  it? — A.  No,  sir;  I  have 
7)()t — not  about  reai)i)oint ing  (Jobb.  1  spoke  to  Dr.  Mott  about  an  ap- 
pointment for  Cobit  tliere  on  thc^  sjiecial  force.  1  spoke  to  him  about 
ap])ointinghiMi  to  anotlu'r  i)osition  jtrior  to  n)y  knowle<lde  of  these  indict- 
nx'nls.  When  I  found  out  al)outtliis  indictment  1  wrote,  as  1  told  you, 
to  I)i-.  Mott  about  it. 

i^.  You  and  .Mr.  Cobb  areon  very  lri<'n(il.\  and  conlidential  terms,  are 
you  not? — A.   We  are  on  friendly  teiins. 

(^.   I'eisonally  and  jtolit  ically  ? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

(^.  Did  Mr.  (,'obl)  consult  you  about  his  oHicial  conduct  as  an  oflicer, 
and  ask  your  ad\  ice,  and  so  on  ? — A.  He  has  done  so,  yes,  sir  ;  and  has 
in  thes(^  <'on\ crsat ions  assured  me  of  his  gr<'at  desire  to  do  exactly 
light. 

i).    Has   he  at    an\    time   told    \«>n  that   he  iiad  orders  to  \isit  and  de- 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  335 

stroy  certain  distilleries,  and  look  out  for  certain  violations  of  tiic  law? 
— A,  He  may  Inive  consulted  me  while  be  was  on  tliis  sjiecial  force  about 
bis  plan  of  operatons,  and  so  on. 

Q.  Wbat  are  the  duties  of  your  olllice  as  a  s^'iieral  stoickceiier  ? — A 
To  take  cliar}4e  of  the  distilleries  that  are  in  my  division  under  suspen- 
sion, and  to  visit  these  distilleries  when  occasion  recjuires — once  a  month 
— and  when  parties  desire  to  tax-])ay  whisky  and  withdraw  it,  or  when  any 
inspection  of  the  distillery  is  re(piired,  I  make  out  monthly  reports  of 
the  quantity  of  whisky  in  the  warehouse  and  the  (juantity  tax-jiaid  dur- 
ing the  month. 

Q.  Is  it  not  a  part  of  your  duty  to  report  any  irrei;ularity  on  the  part 
of  the  licensed  distillers  and  storekeepers  in  tlie  territory  to  which  you 
are  assigned  ? — A.  1  have  nothing-  to  do  with  a  distilleiy  unless  iib  is 
under  suspension;  nothing  at  all.  That  belongs  to  the  dei»uty  c(dlector 
when  the  distillery  is  in  o])eration;  it.  is  not  under  my  charge.  I 
would  not  hesitate,  though,  if  I  saw  or  knew  of  irregularity,  to  feel  it  my 
duty  to  report  it. 

Q.  Is  it  not  a  j)art  of  your  sworn  duty  to  report  all  irregularities  that 
come  to  your  knowledge? — A.  Yes,  sir;  commonly  so  considered,  but  it 
is  not  made  1113'  special  duty  to  lind  out  those  things. 

Q.  Do  you  know  Kobert  Powell? — A.  I  do,  sir. 

Q.  Has  he  been  a  storekeeper  to  a  distiller}? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  distillery? — A.  The  distillery  was  bonded  in  the  name  of  J. 
Martin. 

Q.  Since  1880,  was  it? — A.  The  distilleiy  was  started  since  1880,  yes, 
sir;  I  think  so. 

Q.  You  say  it  was  bonded  in  the  name  of  Jones  Martin;  who  was  the 
real  owner  of  that  distillery? — A.  I  presume  Martin.  I  <lo  not  know 
anjthing  to  the  contrary. 

Q.  Do  you  know  that  Powell  was  really  the  owner  of  the  distillery 
of  which  he  was  stirekeeper  ? — A.  I  do  not. 

Q.  Did  you  not  liave  reason  for  believing  it? — A.  I  have  none  except 
there  was  a  rumor  of  that  sort,  that  Powell  was  interested  in  the  dis- 
tilleiy. 

Q.  What  Avas  the  rumor  based  upon? — A.  I  cannot  tell  you  what  it 
was  based  ujion. 

Q.  W^hose  land  was  the  distillery  on  ? — A.  It  was  on  Dr.  E.  C.  Pear- 
son's. 

Q.  Did  Martin  have  any  means  ? — A.  I  do  not  think  he  had  very  much, 
if  he  had  any — little  or  none. 

Q.  Did  not  Mr.  Powell  buy  corn  for  the  distillery? — A.  I  do  not  know 
that. 

Q.  Did  he  not  buy  corn  from  you  for  the  distillery  ? — A.  Xo,  sir ;  he 
never  did  buy  a  bushel  of  corn  from  me  in  his  life  that  I  remember. 

Q.  Did  Martin  in  any  form  become  responsible  as  a  means  of  running 
the  distillery? — A.  I  do  not  know anytliing  of  that,  only  in  this  way — 
by  rumors  that  came  to  my  knowledge.  I  told  Mr.  Bailey,  the  deputy 
collector,  that  such  was  alleged  to  be  the  case,  and  he  had  to  see  ^Ir. 
Powell  and  have  such  a  thing  stopi)ed,  and  1  would  recommend  to  the 
collector  that  Powell  be  removed  from  the  distillery,  and  it  was  done 
in  consequence  of  these  reports. 

Q.  How  far  does  Powell  live  from  you  ? — A.  He  lives  a  short  distance 
now. 

Q.  He  lives  in  the  same  town  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  On  an  adjoining  lot? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  claimed  to  be  the  owner  of  the  distillery  to  which  he  was 


336  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

assigned  as  a  storekeeper  '? — A.  He  never  was  assigned  but  to  this  one. 
He  is  not  on  duty  now. 

Q.  What  kin  was  Jones  Martin  to  Mr.  Powell? — A.  I  do  not  know 
that  he  was  any. 

Q.  What  relative? — A.  1  do  not  know  that  they  were  related  in  any 
■way  at  all.  1  do  not  think  he  was  to  this  Powell.  Bill  Powell  and 
Jones  Martin  married  sisters. 

Q.  What  kin  was  Bill  Powell  to  the  other  Powell  ? — A.  A  brother  of 
Eobert's. 

Q.  Who  actually  did  the  work  of  operating  that  distillery? — A.  I 
never  was  in  the  distillery  in  my  life.  It  was  never  under  suspension, 
and  I  do  not  know. 

Q.  How  far  was  the  distillery  from  town  ? — A.  About  two  miles,  or 
perhaps  not  so  far. 

Q.  Did  you  never  hear  who  was  the  person  that  was  the  operator  of 
that  distillery  ? — A.  If  so,  I  heard  it  was  Martin.  I  do  ]iot  know  that 
I  ever  heard  of  anyone  else  except  in  these  rumors  about  Powell  being 
the  owner  of  the  distillery. 

Q.  Do  you  know  from  whom  the  distillery  and  its  furniture  and  flt- 
tings  were  bought? — A.  I  think  it  turned  out,  after  an  investigation 
about  the  matter  was  made,  that  Bill  Powell  once  operated  the  distil- 
lery, aud  Captain  Bristol  was  security  for  Powell  in  some  way,  and  the 
stills  and  fixtures  were  placed  un(l?er  mortgage  there,  and  Eobert  Pow- 
ell or  Martin  had  ])rocured  them  from  Bristol.  , 

Q.  Di<l  Martin  have  the  means  to  buy  them? — A.  I  do  not  know. 
He  may  have  had  some  $60,  $10,  or  $^00. 

Q.  Is  it  not  more  likely  that  Powell  furnished  him  the  means  to  buy 
it? — A.  I  cannot  tell  you  about  the  likeliliood.  Powell  is  better  able 
to  do  it. 

Q.  Did  you  not  have  reason  to  know  that  Eobert  Powell  purchased 
the  distillery  ? — A.  I  have  no  personal  knowledge  of  it.  In  consequence 
of  these  rumors  I  took  the  steps  I  did,  and  it  ended  in  Powell's  being 
removed  froia  the  distillery. 

Q.  Who  took  those  steps? — A.  I  took  the  first  steps  with  Mr.  Bailey, 
and  Mr.  Bailey  reported  it  to  the  office.     He  was  the  deputy  collector. 

Q.  You  wrote  to  Mr.  Bailey? — A.  I  saw  Mr.  Bailey  in  person — he 
has  charge  of  that  division — and  talked  to  him  on  the  subject. 

Q.  Did  you  see  the  letter  which  Bailey  wrote  to  Bristol  in  regard  to 
it? — A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not  recollect. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  see  or  hear  of  auy  letter  that  Bailey  wrote  to  Powell, 
telling  him  that  lie  was  coming  on  a  ceitain  day  to  investigate  about 
liim? — A.  I  do  not  remember  of  seeing  any  letter  about  it.  1  hear<l  this, 
that  Bailey  was  going  up  tluMe,  and  liad  notified  J*ovvell  to  beat  home: 
tlnit  liewas  coming  up  there  to  h>oi<  into  that  matter,  to  investigate  it.  I 
<li(l  not  see  tiie  letter,  though. 

().  Mr.  ]>iistol  saw  it? — A.  I  do'not  know.  It  is  very  likely  that  he  did. 
Mr.  Ilristol  was  oikh'  storekeeper,  and  was  familiar  Avith  the  duties  of  a 
storekeeper,  and  assisted  I'owell  in  makiug  out  his  returns. 

(^.  Von  and  Mr.  Powell  arei)artners  in  business? — A.  T<o,  sir;  never 
liave  bciiu  until  recently.  We  arc  owners  of  a  thrashing-  machine  for 
tlie  last  four  weeks. 

Q.  Are  you  not  an  owner-  of  a  livery  stable? — A.  I  never  have  had  a 
4lollar's  woitjj  (»r  intei(\«t  in  il.  I  assisted  by  selling  him  some  stock 
and  some  liiiggies,  hntliaAC  no  inti-rest  whatever. 

(},.  Was  he  not  made  a- sl(»i'ekeei>er  at  your  leeommendation ? — A.  I 
a-ssisted  in  I  lie  mallei';  yes,  .sjr. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA,  337 

Q.  Did  you  ever  liitbrin  Dr.  Mott  that  Powell  wis  relate  I  or  con- 
nected with  the  distiller;  and  did  you  intorin  hiiu  what  was  ^'oiiig  on 
there  iu  your  opinion  '^ — A.  I  had  no  reason  to  Ix-lieve  that  i*owcll  was 
connected  with  the  distiller,  1  infornuMl  theohice,  thron^h  Jiailcy,  and 
the  result  of  that  information  was,  as  I  told  you,  the  distillery  was 
stopped,  and  Powell  was  removed.  1  informed  tlie  office  through  (feputy 
collector,  because  the  deputy  collector  had  l)eeu  up  there.  Jle  was 
often  there  during  every  month. 

Q.  Did  you  not  know  from  the  confession  of  Powell,  or  otherwise, 
that  he  was  violating-  the  law  1 — A.  I  did  not.  He  made  no  such  confes- 
sion to  me,  but  I  merely  insisted,  with  the  dei)uty  collector,  that  he 
should  investigate  this  matter.  It  was  his  province  and  duty  alone  to 
do  it.  I  merely  did  what  was  my  moral  duty  to  do  as  an  otfu^er  of  the 
government. 

Q.  Before  you  did  that,  weretlu^  rumors  hot  and  on  all  sides,  that  h(^ 
was  violating  the  law,  and  owner  of  that  distillery — at  which  he  was 
storekeeper? — A.  It  was  n[)on  these  rumors  I  «lid  it;  I  heard  it  l)efore. 

Q.  Did  he  not  sell  licjuor  from  that  distillery  ? — \.  If  he  did,  I  did 
not  know  of  it  to  my  knowledge. 

Q.  Did  he  not  retail  liquor  in  that  town  of  Morganton,  without  either 
State  or  United  States  license  !^A.  Not  to  my  knowledge;  I  had  heard 
such  charges  brought  against  him,  and  called  Mr.  Bailey's  attention  to 
these  amongst  other  things.  I  really  knew  nothing  of  it,  of  my  own 
knowledge. 

Q.  Have  you  been  interested  in  the  iirotits  of  any  distillery  since  you 
have  been  a  government  officer"? — A.  Never  in  the  slightest  degree, 
either  directly  or  indirectly,  remote  or  in  any  other  way. 

Q.  Have  you  not  been  reported  to  ])r.  ]Mott  as  being  interested  iu  a 
distillery? — A.  If  so,  I  never  heard  of  any  such  report. 

Q.  Had  von  no  interest  whatever  in  the  sales  of  whisky  ma<le  by 
Mr.  Powell':'— A.  None. 

Q.  By  reason  of  advances  of  corn? — A.  I  never  sold  Mr.  Powell  any 
corn.  He  has  operated  this  distillery  since  1  have  been  a  government 
official  and  I  have  never  had  the  slightest  connecrion  with,  nor  winked 
or  blinked  at  any  violation  of  law.  Since  I  have  been  a  government 
official  I  have  tried  to  conduct  myself  above  reproach,  or  even  sus- 
])iciou. 

Q.  Do  yon  know  Thomas  Garrison? — A.  I  do. 

Q.  Has  he  been  running  a  government  distillery  in  Burke  County,, 
since  1S80? — A.  He  may  have  done  so  since  1880.  He  is  not  running 
one  now  ;  if  he  is,  he  is  running  in  another  man's  name. 

Q.  What  storekeei)er  was  ap])ointed  for  him? — A.  L.  A.  PJrittain  was 
the  storekeeper  for  Thomas  Garrison,  at  the  time  he  operated  the  dis- 
tillery. 

Q.  What  kin  was  he  to  Mr.  Garrison  ? — A.  None  that  I  know. 

Q.  Whom  did  he  marry? — A.  A  lady  in  Gaston  County,  by  the  name 
of  ^lason. 

Q,  He  has  no  relation  or  connection  with  Mr.  Garrison  ? — A.  If  so, 
not  to  my  knowledge, 

Q.  Do  you  know  .Air.  Stanley  Walton?— A.  I  do. 

Q.  Are  yon  and  he  running  a  shingle  machine,  or  something  of  that 
kind? — A."  No,  sir,  Ave  are  not;  he  and  myself  and  his  son-in-law,  Mr. 
Burr,  with  Mr.  Cobb,  ordered  an  engine  and  shingle  machine.  Before 
the  engine  got  there,  Mr.  AValton  said  to  me,  "  There  are  so  many  of  us 
in  this'thing- what  do  you  say  to  letting  Mr.  Burr  take  your  interest 
in  this  matter?''  I  consented  to  it,  and  told  him  all  right.  The  engine 
S.  Mis.  lie 22 


338  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

linally  arrived,  but  the  machine  uever  got  there  for  a  long  time;  shin-' 
gies  became  dull,  and  the  thing  was  never  started.  The  machine  was 
in  the  depot,  and  tlie  engine  out  on  the  river,  where  we  weie  to  put  it 
up,  and  the  partnership,  so  far  as  I  am  concerned,  does  not  exist  now. 

Q.  Is  Mr.  Walton  a  storekeeper  to  any  distillery? — A.  Not  now. 

Q.  AVhenwashe? — A.  iSeveral  months  ago,  at  Gerard  Laiel's;  that 
distillery  lias  been  in  suspension  for  some  time. 

Q.  Did  not  Mr.  Bnrr  run  the  distillery  at  one  time? — A.  Xo,  sir;  not 
to  my  knowledge;  it  is  Mr.  Laiels'.  Mr.  Burr  may  have  been  down 
there. 

Q.  Was  Mr.  Burr  interested  in  the  distillery  ? — A.  If  so,  I  did  not 
know  it;  it  is  on  Mr.  Walton's  premises.     I  never  heard  that. 

Q.  Who  was  Gerard  Laiel? — A.  He  is  a  man  that  lives  out  there 
near  Capt.  Tate's,  a  land  owner,  and  a  hard  working,  industrious  man. 
He  is  a  man  of  some  means,  thrifty  and  thoroughgoing. 

Q.  Where  was  his  distillery  located  ? — A.  Near  the  river,  below  Mr. 
Walton's  house,  some  mile  and  a  half  from  town. 

Q.  You  say  it  was  bonded  in  Mr.  Laiel's  name? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Who  Avas  his  security  ? — A.  T.  George  Walton  and  D.  C.  Pearson. 

Q.  Could  you  lawfully  go  on  a  distiller's  bond  ? — A.  I  had  my  doubts 
about  it,  ami  so  expressed  them  at  the  time.  But  having  contidence 
iu  Mr.Walton's  integrity,  and  knowing,  I  sn])pose,  that  the  government 
would  be  protected  wliile  he  Mas  there,  I  did  it;  and  furthermore,  I 
knew  that  the  other  bondsman,  T.  (Tcorge  Walton,  was  amply  able  to 
make  the  bond  good  without  additional  security.  It  is  the  only  bond 
in  that  whole  district  that  I  am  on,  since  I  have  been  a  government 
officer. 

Q.  What  induced  Mr.  Walton  to  go  on  the  bond? — A.  In  the  first 
place  he  knew  Mr.  Laiel  was  the  man  I  described  him  to  be;  and  then 
his  son  would  be  on  duty  there,  was  another  reason  for  doing  it,  I  sup- 
pose. 

(}.  Did  Mr.  Laiel  have  any  land  of  his  own? — A.  He  owns  quite  a 
good  i)lantation  of  lOU  (jr  200  acres. 

Q.  Why  then  did  he  put  this  distillery  on  I\Ir.  Walton's  land  ?— A.  I 
cannot  tell  you  why;  it  would  be  a  matter  of  conjecture;  it  was  near 
to«n  and  near  a  mill,  and  they  would  save  hauling  by  it. 

(^.  Did  you  not  have  any  reason  to  know  that  ^Ir.  Waltini  was  in- 
terested in  that  distillery  ?— A.  I  have  no  reason  to  know  so.  I  have 
no  ])ersonal  knowledge  ot  it,  and  no  reason  to  bebeve  it. 

Q.  Or  that  Mr.  Walton's  son-in-law  was  the  owner  of  it! — A.  1  never 
heard  of  such  a  thing  before  ;  the  oidy  reason  that  I  could  possibly  be- 
lieve that  he  had  any  interest  in  it,  would  be  in  having  Mr.  Walton  con- 
stantly on  duty  at  the  distillery. 

Q.  :\lr.  Walton  is  a  i)artiier  of  yours  in  merchandising? — A.  It  is 
haidly  a  eopnrtnership.  I  have  assisted  Mr.  Walton,  and  Mr,  Walton 
is  doing  luisiness  as  a  merchant — as  agent  for  his  wife.  I  have  some 
interest  in  that  store. 

(}.  Did  yon  have  any  interest  in  that  distillery,  in  the  way  yon  have 
spoken  of  with  the  others,  liirnishing  it  corn  '. — A.  Not  since  i  have  been 
ii  go\-eriiment  otfieer.     J  have  not  dealt  in  any  corn. 

<^).   Neither  lliiid  nor  solid  ? — A.   No.  sir. 

i).   Did  you  sell  some  whisky  in  Asheville? — A,   When? 
(}.  Since  l.SSO. — A.  No,  sir;   1  have  never  sold  any  whisky  in  Ashe- 
ville.     I  (tashed  a  draft  on   Ashe\  ille  Cor  Mr.  In'therston,  and  gave  the 
money  lo  a  distiller  from  whom  he  bonght  some  whisky. 

(}.  The  distillers  were  Wiilker  and  (Ut.  ! — A.  lb'  bonglil  the  whisky 
tiicir.  :iimI  |.;ii(l  I  he  iiKtiicy  to  the  dlstillel's  !ind  took  lip  the  draft. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  339 

Q.  You  (lid  not  sell  whisky  there  lor  yourself? — A.  No,  sir;  tlie 
whisk}'  was  bouglit  direct  t'roni  the  distiller  by  J-\'theiston  ;  and  by 
reason  of  being- a  geneial  storekeejier  and  stanii»ing  the  whisky,  I  knew 
the  existence  of  the  draft,  and  procured  it  in  that  way. 

Q.  Did  you  not  make  any  charge  or  give  any  information  to  Collector 
Mott  about  this  distillery  there  on  AValton's  premises? — A.  Any  in- 
formation, how  ? 

Q.  Any  complaint  or  information. — A.  There  was  never  any  <()iii]ilaint 
against  it. 

Q.  You  never  had  any  suspicion,  and  thcrfore  could  not  make  any 
comiilaint? — A.  No,  sir;  it  was  run  as  regular,  so  far  as  i  knew,  as  any 
distillery  under  my  charge  was  running. 

Q.  Do  you  know  an  instance  in  the  territory  under  your  supervision 
of  storekeepers  dividing  their  i)ay  with  distillers  'i — xV.  Not  of  my  own 
knowledge. 

Q.  Do  you  know  from  the  knowledge  of  others? — A.  1  have  heard 
such  rumors. 

Q.  Of  whom,  and  concerning  whom  ''! — A.  The  rumors  have  been 
general,  and  not  conlinedto  any  particular  person  or  storekeei>er ;  that 
lias  been  alleged.  I  want  to  say  further,  right  here,  that  I  have  exerted 
my  intluence  to  prevent  any  such  rumors  getting  alloat,  or  any  suspi- 
cion of  any  such  thing;  and  have  written  to  the  oftice  refusing  to  rec- 
ommend the  assignment  of  a  man  who  w^as  suspected  of  having  di- 
vided his  pay,  even  upon  the  suspicion  of  such  a  thing,  in  order  to 
break  it  up,  if  it  existed. 

Q.  Did  you  not  talk  with  men  who  were  suspected  of  blockading  to  get 
them  to  take  out  licenses  for  legal  distilleries  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  In  doing  so,  did  you  ever  advise  them  that  they  could  arrange  with 
the  storekeeper? — A.  No,  sir;  never  made  any  such  proi)()sitioii. 

Q.  I  mean  given  them  such  an  advice  ? — A.  I  have  given  thiMu  such 
advice  as  would  prevent  their  blockading,  and  get  them  into  the  chan- 
nel of  running  according  to  law. 

Q.  What  had  the  distillers  to  do  in  the  selection  of  their  storekeepers? 
— A.  They  had  nothing  to  do  with  it.  They  had  the  matter  of  prefer- 
ence about  it,  as  each  one  naturally  Avould  have,  where  an  ofllcer  was 
better  acquaiuted  with  the  distiller  than  any  other  person.  They  would 
ask  for  a  man  of  equal  integrity,  and  all  that  sort  of  thing.  If  I  had 
been  the  collector,  I  would  liave  given  the  distillers  that  recognition, 
and  the  collector  endeavored  to  do  so. 

Q.  You  would  recommend  it  accordingly  ? — A.  I  did.  where  the  inter- 
ests of  the  government  would  be  protected  and  the  distiller  pleased  at 
the  same  time.     I  recommended  that. 

Q.  Did  3'ou  ever  at  any  time  assign  or  recommend  the  assignment  of 
a  storekee])er  to  a  distillery  where  the  storekeeper  was  related  to  the 
distiller? — A.  I  might  have  done  so,  not  knowing  at  the  time  of  the 
relation.  I  do  not  know  of  any  instance  where  I  did  it.  If  the  rela- 
tionship had  been  a  near  one,  I  would  not  have  been  very  apt  to  have 
done  it;  if  distant,  I  might  have  done  it. 

Q.  Was  M.  C.  Epley's  distillery  in  your  district  while  under  sus])eii- 
sion  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  much  liquor  was  in  it  when  it  suspended? — A.  There  was 
re])orted  to  be  several  hundred  gallons  ;  the  exact  number  I  cannot 
tell  you. 

Q.  Who  was  it  reported  by,  the  agent  ?— A.  That  was  the  report  of 
the  last  storekeeper  in  charge,  and  Avhen  the  books  were  turned  over 
to  me,  they  showed  the  existence   of  so  many  barrels  containing  so 


340  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

mauy  j^^allou.s  iu  the  warehouse.  Soon  after  the  distillery  was  put  iu 
my  charge,  the  distillery  was  broken  into;  and  it  was  reported  to  the 
bondsmen,  and  I  went  up  there.  I  wrote  to  the  office,  informing-  them 
about  it.  In  the  meantime,  the  barrels  were  very  bad.  Indeed  the 
whisky  was  in  bad  condition,  the  whisky  was  very  bad,  too,  besides  be- 
low proof:  many  of  the  l)arrels  were  leaking,  the  staves  loose,  and  the 
hoops  off.  The  best  of  the  barrels  were  taken  and  refilled  out  of  those 
barrels  there  that  would  not  hold  whisky.  The  empty  barrels  were  re- 
ported as  the  regulations  required  them  to  be,  in  red  ink,  on  the  87; 
and  their  tax  was  reported  and  put  upon  the  assessment  list  of  the 
deputy  collector  for  the  collection  of  the  taxes.  The  warehouse  was 
made  as  secure  as  we  could  make  it,  and  locked  up. 

Q.  How  many  gallons  were  in  the  distillery,  do  you  think,  when  re- 
ported to  you  by  the  storekeeper  who  last  had  it  in  charge,  to  the  best 
of  your  knowledge  ? — A.  There  were  between  four  and  five  hundred 
gallons,  perhaps  more. 

Q.  AVhen  it  was  seized  and  sold,  how  much  was  there  ? — A.  Prior  to 
the  seizure  and  the  selling  I  want  to  state  another  thing.  There  was 
still  some  three  or  four  hundred  gallons — nearly  sixty  or  a  hundi^ed  gal- 
lons had  gone  out  of  the  warehouse  then — which  1  reported.  These 
bondsmen  were  induced  to  try  aud  sell  the  whisky  and  take  it  out  of 
There.  It  was  in  a  remote  place,  and  Mr.  Epley  was  a  man  of  bad  repu- 
tation. These  bondsmen  talked  to  me  about  it.  I  tohl  them  their  reliei' 
was  to  tax-pay  the  whisky  and  to  take  it  out.  The  government  did  not 
require  a  man  to  stay  there  all  the  while  to  guard  it,  but  only  to  lock  it. 
It  was  entered  again  afterwards,  or  reported  to  be,  rather ;  the  deputy 
went  up.  I  did  not  go  that  time  because  of  his  going;  some  of  the 
bondsmen  went  to  a  man  named  ]\IcDowell,  of  McDowell  &  Co.,  who 
agreed  Avith  the  bondsmen  to  take  and  tax  pay  the  whisky  and  send 
for  withdrawal  stamps;  but,  on  account  of  the  poor  quality  of  the 
whisky,  the  man  declined  to  take  it  and  get  the  stamps.  When  the 
deputy  collector  took  the  whisky  out  of  there,  I  do  not  thiuk  there  was 
more  than  one  barrel  in  there.  I  do  not  know  how  many  gallons ;  I 
think  V)etween  thirty  and  forty  gallons. 

Q.  You  say  the  bondsmen  com[)laiiied  frecpiently  to  you  that  the 
whisky  was  Ix'ing  stolen  ? — A.  Yes,  t^ir. 

(}.  And  asked  you  to  take  such  action  as  would  protect  them  ? — A. 
They  had  it  iu  their  power,  and  I  did  evervthiug  I  could.  1  could  not 
stay  there  night  and  <lay  to  protect  them. 

(]).  Could  you  not  have  made  a  regauge  '. — A.  I  did  do  that. 

Q.  And  take  possession  of  it  and  haul  it  away  to  your  oftice  '! — A. 
Xo,  sir;  the  law  did  not  recpiire  that.  The  whisky  was  in  the  ware- 
house, which  Mas  locked;  and  T  did  not  care  to  become  the  bondsman 
of  the  whisky  myself. 

(^.  Xeverthehks,  in  spite  of  the  lock  and  key,  they  complained  to  you 
about  it? — A.  They  did  complain;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Ami  when  it  was  liiiidly  seized  and  sold,  about  a  barrel  of  it  was 
left .' — A.  Yes,  sir;  the  barrels  were  very  bad. 

().  Why  did  you  not  sell  it  betbre  .' — A.  I  h;id  no  authority  to  sell  it 
at  thiit  time  nor  at  any  time. 

().   W  heic  did  you  get  it  afterwards.' — A.  The  deputy  collecror. 

(}.  \\'\i\  did  .\(»u  not  make  such  representations  to  the  deputy  collec- 
tor i'.s  to  imlin'i' liim  to -o  and  sci/.c  ii  and  save  the  securities  ? — A.  'JMte 
dt*l)Uty  collector  knew  this  as  well  as  I  did.  Of  course  they  could  have 
taken  the  whisky  at  any  time. 

i).  l>y   piiving  the  taxes  1' — A.  Yes,  sir;  when   they  i)aid  the  taxes 
they  wer(;  liable  for  it  any  way,  if  tiie  distiller  failed  to  i)ay  it. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLLVA.  341 

Q.  Notwithstanding'  that  it  was  lost  while  under  \'(jni  care  '. — A.  It 
was  not  nnder  my  care;  it  was  in  my  charge  by  reason  of  the  sus]tension. 
It  was  nnder  their  care;  they  were  the  l)ondsmen  lor  it,  and  they  lived 
in  the  n*eighborhood. 

Q.  Who  was  the  storekeeper  for  Peter  Mull  ? — A.  1  do  not  think  that 
Peter  Mull  ever  has  run  a  licensed  distillery  since  the  district  was  con- 
solidated. Eiley  Taleut,  who  is  a  Democrat,  was  a]>i>ointed,  with  a  view 
of  assigning  him  to  Peter's  place,  and  he  tried  to  induce  him  to  quit 
blockading  and  run  a  government  distillery. 

Q.  Was  not  (_'Ol)l)  a  storekeeper  for  Peter  Mull  at  one  time? — A.  I 
til  ink  not. 

Q.  In  1874  or  1875! — A.  If  so,  I  do  not  remember.  I'eter  Mull  ran  a 
distillery  there  before  the  consolidation  ;  Joel  Cloud  was  his  storekeei)ei', 
and  a  man  named  Bridgers. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 
Q.  You  mean  that  was  before  it  went  into  the  sixth  district  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir  ;  I  do  not  think  Mull  ever  ran  a  distillery  since. 

•  By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  writing  a  letter  to  Mr.  Cobb  about  that  time,  or 
early  in  1870,  about  that  distillery,  cautioning  him  about  his  actions; 
that  the  times  were  squally,  and  he  had  better  look  out? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Yon  did  not  write  the  letter  ?— A.  Cobb,  I  think,  was  on  duty  at 
Hutfinan's  distillery  at  that  time.  I  wrote  Cobb  a  letter  telling  him 
these  rumors  about  his  conduct,  cautioning  him  to  be  more  observant, 
and  all  that  sort  of  thing ;  that  his  distillery  would  probably  undergo  an 
inspection,  and  he  ought  to  have  everything  right;  but  he  was  not  at 
Mull's,  but  at  Huffman's— HuU'm an  &  Co's.  I  wish  to  state  again  that 
all  of  these  transactions  alluded  to  by  the  chairman  were  before  I  had  any 
connection  with  the  government  as  an  ofticer,  or  desired  to  have. 

Q.  In  connection  with  this  question  that  I  have  asked  you,  whether 
you  had  ever  been  threatened  with  an  indictment  for  these  oftenses,  I 
will  read  to  you  froui  the  report  of  the  revenue  agent,  Jacob  Wagoner  : 

I  liave  the  honor  to  report  that  I  have  for  some  time  past  Vieen  engaged  in  an  inves- 
tigation of  the  acts  of  certain  persons  near  Morgaiiton,  in  the  sixth  district  of  North 
Carolina,  among  them  R.  A.  Cobb,  United  States  storekeeper  and  ganger:  D.  C.  Pear- 
son, clerk  Bnrke  Connty  snperior  conrt ;  Terrill  Hndson  ;  Hndson,  Johnson  cV'  Co., 
and  Huffman  &  Co.,  distillers,  all  of  's\'honi  are,  and  have  been,  engaged  .severally, 
and  in  combination,  to  defraud  the  revenue  in  unlawfully  removing  spirits,  retilling 
empty  stamped  casks  and  re-using  sjiirit  stamps,  with  the  result  of  securing  what  ap- 
pears to  be  conclusive  evidence  of  their  guilt.  Being  al)out  to  leave  this  district,  I 
have  placed  this  evidence  in  the  hands  jointly  of  Collector  J.  J.  Mott  and  Revenue 
Agent  Chapnuiu,  to  be  used  in  .seizing  property,  and  the  bringing  offenders  to  pun- 
ishment. Collector  Mott  is  very  indignant  at  the  conduct  of  Storekeeper  Cobb,  who 
has  thus  gT0.ssly  betrayed  his  coiitidence,  and  is  disi)osedto  press  the  case  against  him 
and  his  associates.  I  trust  that  he  may  be  instructed  to  cause  his  immediate  removal 
froui  ottice,  ami  that  prosecution  ))e  instituted  against  him,  as  he  has  been  the  leading 
.spirit  in  the  frauds,  and  that  Mr.  Cha})man  may  be  advised  of  the  importance  of  im- 
mediate action  in  these  cases. 

Did  YOU  ever  hear  of  that  before '?— A.  Never :  that  is  the  first  of 
that. 

Q.  Did  Mr.  Chapman  or  Dr.  Mott  ever  talk  with  you  about  it  ?— A.  I 
want  to  explain  ;  I  never  heard  of  that  report ;  I  heard  of  some  sus- 
picions that  Wagner  had,  and  wrote  a  letter  demanding,  so  far  as  1  was 
concerned,  an  investigation.     I  wrote  that  letter  to  Greensboro. 

Q.  To  whom?— A.  Mr.  J.  B.  Gritter.  He  was  a  deputy  marshal  un- 
der Douglass.  Wagner  had  his  headquarters  at  Greensboro,  and  1 
told  him  to  let  Wagner  know  or  INIr.  Cliapmaii.  that  I  had  heard  such 


342  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

reports  bad  been  made  to  hiui,  and  demanded  an  investigation,  and  after 
lie  did  investigate  it,  in  consequence  of  that  I  suppose,  a  warrant  was 
sworn  out  against  Cobb.  A  thorough  investigation  of  the  matter  Nvas 
had.  I  was  present.  I  tokl  the  connnissioner  wlio  conducted  ft  to  ask 
all  sons  of  questions,  to  see  if  I  was  implicated.  ]\lr.  Chai)man  was 
satisfied,  and  there  never  was  an  indictment  got  cnit  against  me. 

Q.  Do  you  know  if  Mr.  Chapman  ever  made  a  report? — A.  I  do  not. 
I  know  this,  in  consequence  of  their  investigatio]i,  that  notliing  was  ever 
brought  against  me.  I  went  to  the  court  and  tohl  the  district  attorney 
that  I  was  tired  out  with  these  insinuations  and  aspersions  on  me,  and 
demanded  that  tlie  thing  should  be  looked  into. 

Q.  You  did  not  demand  it  of  tlie  revenue  agent,  but  you  wrote  to  Mr. 
Gritter  ? — A.  Dr.  ]\Iott  knew  my  feelings  in  regard  to  it,  and  he  and  I 
liad  a  conversation  in  regard  to  it.  He  may  have  told  me  at  one  time 
how  these  matters  were  reported  by  these  agents. 

Mr,  Pool,  Was  Mr,  Pearson  an  officer  at  that  time. 

The  CHAlR^LiN.  Xo,  sir;  A  clerk  of  the  court. 

The  Witness.  No,  sir;  not  seeking  any  ofHce  at  the  hands  of  the 
government.  All  this  was  known  to  the  department  wlien  I  was  ap- 
l)ointed,  and  I  judge  if  there  had  been  any  reason  for  the  truth  of  these 
things,  that  my  appointment  would  have  been  withheld,  or  not  made. 
1  will  further  state  that  the  collector  himself  became  satistied  of  the  un- 
truthfulness of  it,  or  he  never  would  have  recommended  my  appoint- 
ment. 

Ey  :\[r.  Pool  : 

Q.  You  see  your  attention  has  been  called  to  rumor  after  rumor,  iir 
regard  to  charges  which  you  have  answered  here,  and  rumors  in  regard 
to  others.  1  want  to  ask  you  this  question  :  were  not  rumors  of  all  sorts 
of  character  rife  at  that  time  against  lirst  one  and  then  another  '/ — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Especially  active  Eepublicans  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  "Were  not  such  rumors  repeated  on  the  stump  by  political  speak- 
ers there  ? — A.  Thej'  were ;  but  I  never  had  a  rumor  of  this  sort  repeated 
against  me  on  the  stump. 

Q.  Di<l  it  not  seem  to  be  a  part  of  the  political  warfare  to  deal  in 
rumors  and  start  rumors  '? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Against  the  revenue  officers  and  Republicans  who  had  any  con- 
nection with  the  revenue  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  have  met  their  insinuations  against  yourself  of  that  sort  very 
S(|uarely.  In  your  opinion  weie  not  most  of  these  rumors  false? — A.  In 
many  instances  they  were — very  many. 

i^.  Was  it  not  considered  very  fortunate  if  a  man  could  get  an  inves- 
tigation into  one  of  these  rumors  !? — A.  It  was.  These  agents  ])ursued 
an  underhand  course.  They  did  not  meet  a  man  fairly  and  sijuarely 
witli  their  diarges.  I  liave  no  doubt  now  that  these  reports  that  I 
lieai'd,  were  liunted  up  secretly  by  men  unfriendly  to  me,  and  they 
asUed  ;ill  sorts  of  (piestions  as  to  what  they  could  secure  from  enemies 
ot'  mine.  Mull  is  an  enemy  of  mine;  and  if  they  had  found  anything,  it 
would  have  In-en  fbllovve(l  up  by  an  indictnu'iit. 

(^.  Vou  consider  yourself  fortunate  in  getting  an  opixtrtiuiity  to 
liave  the  minors  inxestigated  1' — A.  Yes,  sii'. 

().  Vou  were,  a  mei(;hant  years  ago,  before  the  <'ons(»li(lalion  of  the 
distiiet  .' — A.  Ves,  sir. 

(}.  In  Morganton  ;  and  a  pait  of  your  business  was  tt»  sell  pi'oduce? — 
A.    \ Cs,  sir. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    XOUTH    CAROLINA.  343 

Q.  Not  only  corn,  but  otlicr  i)ro(liice? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  these  sales  that  yon  made  to  ])eoi>le,  who  were  alle.ii^e(l  to  be 
illicit  distillers  and  others  were  in  the  re,i;nlar  conrse  ofyonr  bnsiness  .' — 
A.  Why,  certainly. 

Q.  You  did  not  consider  that  yon  had  any  rij^ht  to  refuse  a  man  a 
bushel  of  corn  because  it  mi<;ht  be  said  that  he  was  an  illicit  distiller? 
— A.  ( >ther  merchants  <lid  the  same  thin^-. 

(}.  There  was  nothin.i;'  in  it  different  fiom  the  mercantile  business  of 
your  place  ? — A.  We  all  did  it  exactly  alike:  the  men  who  uot  the  trade 
did  it. 

Q.  Your  attention  was  called  to  your  havino-  recommended  not  oidy 
Cobb  but  six  or  seven  others  to  Doctor  Mott  for  appointment? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

.  Q.  Did  all  the  other  men  whom  you  recommended  and  aot  ai»i)ointed 
turnout  to  be  faithful,  good  officers? — A.  I  never  heard  an> charge 
made  against  any  of  the  others  to  my  knowledge. 

Q.  The  ]>ositi(Mi  you  recommendecl  Col)b  to  was  that  of  s[)ecial  dep- 
uty ? — A.  Si)ecial  deputy ;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  it  the  duty  of  a  s])ecial  dejMity  to  do  anything  more  than  to  go 
around  ])oliciug  and  breaking  up  illicit  distilleries  ' — A.  Xothing  else, 
whatever. 

Q.  Has  he  anything  to  do  with  the  collection  of  the  revenue' — A. 
Nothing  at  all. 

Q.  Does  he  handle  any  public  money? — A.  None. 

Q.  He  has  no  responsil>ility  to  the  government  pecuniaiily  at  all  ? — A. 
None.  I  said  further  that  the  i)utting  of  Cobb  on  this  special  force  met 
with  the  approbation  of  ]N[r.  Chapnum,  the  revenue  agent. 

Q.  And  that  was  after  his  history  had  been  investigated? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  investigated  thoroughly, 

Q.  Was  Cobb  an  active,  efficient  man? — A.  Very,  sir;  proved  to  be 
afterwards,  while  ou  duty  as  a  special  deputy. 

Q.  Was  he  well  acquainted  with  the  mountain  roads  and  bridle- 
paths all  through  that  section  of  the  country  ? — A.  Very  well,  sir;  yes, 
sir. 

Q.  Was  he  not  specially  fitted,  after  his  reform,  for  the  character  of 
the  work  given  to  him  on  account  of  the  special  information  that  he  had 
in  regard  to  these  illegal  distilleries  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  Was  that  not  a  good  reason  to  ai)point  him? — A.  That  was  the 
reason  given  for  putting  him  in,  by  Mr.  Chapman  particularly. 

By  the  Chairman.  He  knew  how  it  was  himself. 

The  Witness.  Mr.  Chapman  thought  so. 

By  Mr.  Pool.  It  turned  out  to  be  so. 

The  Witness.  It  turned  out  that  Cobb  was  very  efficient  and  faith- 
ful, as  I  know,  while  on  duty  in  that  capacity. 

Q.  You  said  that  Mr.  Cobb  since  that  time  had  been  indicted  on  the 
charge  of  having  made  out  false  accounts? — A.   Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  Did  that  false  account  relate  to  the  revenue  at  all  ? — A.  It  was 
not  that  kind  of  fraud. 

Q.  Not  against  the  revenue? — A.  Oh,  no  sir;  it  was,  as  I  understand, 
while  these  men  were  in  attendance  at  court  they  were  aHowed  their 
ex])enses,  whatever  that  might  be. 

Q.  It  was  a  fraud  against  the  court? — A.  I  do  not  know  what  it  was 
against. 

Q.  It  uas  against  the  court,  and  in  relation  to  the  fund  for  witnesses 
for  the  i)r()secution,  came  out  of  the  eourt  funds  expemled  by  the  mar- 
shal ?— A.  It  goes  through  there.     Who  paid  by,  I  don't  know. 


344  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Dr.  Mott  bad  nothing  to  do  with  itf — A.  No,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  I  think  that  you  are  mistaken  about  that.  I  think 
the  travebng  expenses  incurred  by  special  deimties  in  all  kinds  of  duty 
are  ])aid  and  duly  approved  in  Dr.  JNIott's  office. 

Mr.  Pool.  He  was  attending  court  as  a  witness? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that 
is  my  understanding.  I  merely  give  this  from  information.  JNIaybe  it 
liad  nothing  to  do  with  this  voucher. 

The  Chairman.  Witnesses  who  receive  full  salary  get  no  per  diem 
^svheu  attending  court;  they  get  only  their  actual  expenses. 

Mr.  Pool.  This  account  was  an  expense  account. 

The  Witness.  That  is  paid  by  the  marshal. 

The  Chairman.  If  he  went  down  to  court  as  a  part  of  his  duty  as  a 
deputy,  it  would  be  his  traveling  expenses,  and  go  through  Dr.  Mott's 
office;  his  fee  as  a  witness  would   be  })aid  by  the  marshal  of  the  court. 

Mr.  Pool.  This  account  was  for  his  board  bill  at  court  while  attend- 
ing as  a  witness  '? — A.  Yes,  sir;  and  the  irregularity  was  discovered  in 
the  marshal's  department  at  court,  and  it  was  gotten  up  there  as  al- 
leged by  these  men,  who  were  unfriendly  to  the  collector,  as  a  lick  at 
Dr.  Mott  over  Cobb's  shoulders.  I  give  you  that,  not  as  my  own  knowl- 
edge, l)ut  just  what  I  have  heard. 

Q.  When  Cobb  was  running  his  still,  it  was  a  legal  still  was  it  not? 
— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  But  that  was  before  the  consolidation  of  the  district? — A.  jS^o; 
Cobl)  ran  a  legal  distillery  since  the  (consolidation  of  the  district,  in  187G 
or  1877  or  1878,  somewhere  along  there. 

Q.  You  were  asked  if  you  did  not  engage  in  selling  some  whisky  in 
Aslieville,  and  you  said  that  you  did  not,  and  spoke  of  a  <lraft  that  you 
had  cashed ;  was  that  for  your  own  personal  convenience  ? — A.  Why,  cer- 
tainly-. 

Q.  I  understood  j-ou  to  say,  though  it  did  not  appear  very  distinct, 
that  you  did  pay  it  to  some  one  there  ? — A.  I  did;  that  was  the  reason  I 
procured  it. 

Q.  You  bought  the  draft  for  your  own  convenience  in  order  to  pay  a 
debt?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Tliese  notes  are  negotiable  ? — A.  Certainly;  drawn  on  the  bank  at 
Aslieville.  I  sent  the  di-aftto  IMr.  Pearson,  to  whom  I  was  indebted,  anil 
he  presented  it  to  tin*  bank,  and  it  was  i)aid. 

Q.  Was  there  anything  impro})er  in  notifying  Mr.  Powell  to  be  pres- 
ent so  that  he  might  answer? — A.  Xothing;  a  matter  of  convenience 
to  save  .Ml'.  l>ailey  the  trouble  of  getting  there  when  Mr.  Powell  was 
out  of  town. 

Q.  If  ]Mr.  Powell  liad  really  been  interested  as  one  of  the  owners  of 
this  distillery,  such  a  notice  to  him  could  not  change  that  fact  ? — A.  I 
do  not  see  how  it  could. 

Q.  You  do  not  see  how  the  notice  wouhl  have  put  him  on  guard  in 
any  way  at  all  ? — A.  Not  in  any  way.  The  notice  might  have  this  eft'ect 
if  Powell  liiid  been  bhxikading  oi'  anything  of  that  sort. 

(^).  Tliis  was  not  a  chaige  of  blockading,  but  of  being  a  part  owner? 
—  A.   lie  could  n(»f  change  that  otfense  if  ili'xistcd. 

i).  \t)ii  tiiiiik  it  prolijildc  that  Bailey  notitied  him  so  that  he  would  be 
on  iiand  and  hccdidd  sec  or  hear  what  he  had  to  state. — A.  Saw  noth- 
ing improper  in  il. 

(}.  I  will  call  your  attention  to  .Mr.  I"]p'ev  and  that  distilleiy:  A\'as  it 
in  any  way  your  duty  to  i»roteet  that  whisky,  except  to  see  that  tln^ 
warehouse  Wiis  kept  l(»cked  ? — .\.   No,  sir. 

().  The  Nuieties  li;i(|    that    Upon   their  shoulders? — A.   1  should   have 


THE    8IXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  345 

felt  it  my  duty  upon  an  examination,  etc.,  if  it  had  Ix-en  unsatc,  1o  liavi* 
procured  nails  and  a  hammer  and  make  the  liou.se  as  .secure  a.s  po.ssible. 

Q.  Whicli  you  did? — A.  Certainly,  I  <lid, 

Q,  That  was  the  wiiole  dut\  recjuired  of  you  f — A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  When  tliose  sureties  eoini)hiined  to  you,  you  discharged  all  the 
duty  that  the  law  put  u]»on  your  .shoulders  i' — A.  I  endeavored  to  do 
so. 

Q.  Did  you  explain  to  them  that  the  government  would  hold  them 
responsible  for  every  gallon  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  the  government  lose  anything  at  all  by  that  wdii.sky  having 
been  taken  out? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  the  money  has  been  collected 
as  yet.  The  bonds  are  in  suit.  If  the  bonds  are  good  they  certainly 
liave  lost  nothing.  ' 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  that  the  bonds  are  good  ? — A.  I  do  not  take  the 
bonds.     I  do  not  ]>as.s  upon  them.     I  have  nothing  to  do  with  them. 

Q.  But,  still,  in  law  the  government  would  be  entitled  to  just  as  much 
for  the  whisky  so  taken  out  as  if  it  had  staid  there? — A.  Certainly. 

The  committee  took  a  recess  until  2  p.  m. 

Washington,  D.  C,  Friday.  July  14,  1SS2. 
,  The  committee  met  after  recess  at  2  yt.  m. 

E.  S.  Walton  sworn  and  examined. 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  Where  do  you  reside  '? — Answer.  At  Morgantou. 

Q.  What  is  your  occupation  ? — A.  I  am  merchandising  now.  1  ha\'e 
been  United  States  storekeeper,  but  have  not  been  on  duty  for  eight 
months;  since  I  have  engaged  in  lousiness. 

Q.  Are  you  well  acqnainted  with  the  6th  collection  district  of  Xorth 
Carolina? — A.  Portions  of  it,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  five,  six,  or  seven  years  ago,  and  along  there,  that 
there  w^as  a  great  deal  of  trouble  about  collecting  the  internal  revenue 
in  that  district  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  you  refer  to  blockading  there? 

Q.  Y'es,  sir;  and  resistance  to  the  laws. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  A  general  denunciation  of  revenue  laws  and  a  feeling  in  the  com- 
munity adverse  to  the  collector's  office! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  IJid  it  exist  to  a  very  great  extent? — A.  I  think  it  did. 

Q.  Has  it  improved  f — A.  Decidedly  so. 

Q.  Was  it  at  one  time  unsafe  for  revenue  officers  to  go  unarmed  and 
unattended  through  parts  of  that  district? — A.  I  think  so. 

Q.  Can  they  go  now  safely? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  no  resistance  at  all  now. 

Q.  Do  you  attribute  that  imt)rovement  to  Dr.  Mott's  care,  diligence, 
and  judgment  in  the  execution  of  his  office? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  and  the  es- 
tablishment of  these  small  distilleries. 

Q.  Is  Dr.  Mott  a  man  of  high  character  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  For  integrity  and  truth? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  I  have  heard  him  very 
highly  spoken  of  by  all  clas.>-es  of  people  in  our  section  of  the  country 
as  an  officer. 

Q.  Y^ou  say  you  were  once  a  storekeeper? — A.  I  am,  sir;  but  a  store- 
keeper not  on  duty,  and  have  not  l)een  on  duty  for  eight  or  nine  months. 

Q.  Will  you  stat«^  with  whom  you  last  were  storekeeper  ? — A.  At  the 
distillery  of  Gerard  Laiel. 

Q.  Did  your  .son-in-law  become  interested  in  that  distillery  while  you 
were  there  as  a  storekeeper? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


346  COLLECTIOX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  You  had  beeu  tliere  as  a  storekeeper  a  good  wbile  before? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  loug  did  you  remain  tliere  after  lie  became  interested  ? — A. 
Only  a  few  months. 

Q.  Then  you  were  taken  off  duty,  and  have  not  been  on  since? — A. 
I  have  not  been  on  since ;  up,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  D.  C.  Pearson,  who  was  a  witness  on  the  stand  this 
niorniug'  * — A.  I  do. 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  character  he  bears  in  the  community  in  which 
he  now  lives  ? — A.  1  think  I  do. 

Q.  You  both  live  in  the  same  town  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Will  you  state  what  it  is? — A.  It  is  ,yood. 

Q.  Is  it  very  high? — A.  A^es,  sir;  I  think  so. 

Q.  Is  it  high  among-  all  classes  of  people? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  have  heard,  of  course,  tioating  rumors  or  attacks  upon  him, 
as  you  have  upon  other  revenue  officers  ? — A.  Oh!  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Are  these  rumors  uiiou  Mr.  Pearson  credited  at  all? — A.  I  think 
not. 

Q.  He  has  been  a  very  active  politician  ? — A.  Very. 

Q.  liepublican  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Before  he  was  a  revenue  officer,  was  he  very  active  in  politics? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  he  was  the  clerk  of  the  court  there. 

Q.  The  County  of  Burke,  in  which  you  and  he  reside,  is  a  Democratic 
county,  is  it  not? — A.  Yes,  sir;  has  Itecn  for  several  years. 

Q.  Was  it  not  a  Democratic  county  when  Mr.  Pearson  was  elected 
clerk? — A.  I  think  it  was. 

Q.  Was  he  not  elected  clerk  several  times  over  and  over  again?— A. 
I  think  only  twice. 

Q.  Although  he  is  an  active  partisan  Kepublicau,  he  carried  this 
Democratic  county  twice  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  About  what  Democratic  majority  was  there  in  the  county  at  that 
time  ?— A.  About  250  or  500. 

Q.  8o  Mr.  Pearson  had  that  to  overcome? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  is  an  evidence  of  the  estimate  in  which  the  people  of  that 
community  hold  him  ? — A.  I  think  so;  he  is  very  po[»ular  there  in  the 
county. 

Q.  Did  he  discharge  the  duties  of  his  office,  as  clerk,  well  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  he  discharged  the  duties  well  as  clerk,  in  a  satisfactory  nmnner  to 
every  one. 

Q.'  He  resigned  the  office? — A.  He  resigned  the  office  and  accepted 
a  i)osition  in  the  revenue. 

Crossexaniination  by  the  Chairman: 

Q.  AN'Ikmi  \\('\v  you  first  assigned  to  Laiel's  distillery? — A.  1  think  it 
was  in  ISTO. 

(^  At  what  tin)e  in  1870? — A.  I  won't  be  jxtsitive  ;  I  x\i\uk  it  was 
])robably  in  I'ebruary,  1S70. 

(^.  How  long  did  you  act  there  ? — A.  I  acted  olf  and  on  until  the  dis- 
tilh-ry  was  nndcr  suspension;    I  thiid<  for  about  eighteen  months. 

(,).  When  (lid  Mr.  Ilurr  acquire  an  interest  in  it? — A.  1  think  about 
the  hist  of  A|»iil  a  yea i  ago — April  or  May;  I  will  not  bepositi\(' — that 
is  just   in\    leeoMeetion  about  it. 

"(,).  'i'liat  w(.nhi  be  Aj.iil  or  .May  of  ISSl  ?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

How  hmg  aftei-  that  did  you  stay  as  st<)rekeei)er  ? — A.  1  think  three 
months. 

().    Who  <ii<i  Mr.  Iliirr  iiiiN   liis  inleiesl   fi'om  ? — A.    l-'rom  Mr.  Laiel. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  347 

Q.  Who  fnrnislied  liiiu  tlic  means  to  buy  it? — A.  To  buy  I.aiel's  iii. 
erest  ? 

Q.  Yes.— A.  1  (lid. 

Q.  Was  it  known  by  the  coninmnity  there  that  Mr.  Burr  had  an  in- 
terest in  that  distillery  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  it  was.  Tlie  distillery 
was  run  in  Laiel's  name. 

Q.  Did  yon  have  no  interest  in  it  at  all  ? — A.  None  whatever. 

().  Did  your  fa  titer  have  an  interest  in  itf — A.  None  whatever. 

Q.  Did  any  of  your  eonneetions? — A.  None  at  all,  sir. 
''   Q.  How  eanie  the  distillery  to  be  placed  on  your  land  ? — A.  It  was 
much  more  convenient  for  me,  when  1  attended  the  distillery.     I  con- 
sented for  it  to  be  put  there. 

Q.  The  distillery  was  put  there  for  your  convenience,  was  it  ? — \. 
Yes,  sir.     I  consented,  and  preferred  its  bein,ii'  there., 

Q.  AYas  it  a  new  establishment  or  a  distillery  moved  there  from 
another  place? — A.  A  new  establishment. 

Q.  What  interest  did  ^Ir.  Burr  aci]uire  in  it  ? — A.  He  had  the  entire 
interest. 

Q.  He  bou^ilit  it  up  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  say  Mr.  Pearson,  before  he  became  a  revenue  officer,  was  an 
active  i)olitician  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  he  was  so  considered  then. 

Q.  And  that  he  was  elected  twice  to  the  clerk's  office  ? — A.  That  is 
my  recollection. 

Q.  In  a  Democratic  county  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Which  side  did  jV[r.  Pearson  then  claim  to  be  on  ? — A.  AYhy,  he 
was  running  as  a  Ite]uiblican. 

Q.  Has  there  not  been  some  little  doubt  always  in  the  minds  of  the 
community  which  way  he  was  balancing? — A.  Pie  had  a  way  i)eculiar 
to  himself,  and  men  have  renmrked  that  he  was  a  little  wishy-washy. 

Q.  Did  he  not  vote  the  Democratic  ticket  sometimes  ? — A.  I  cannot 
say  as  to  that ;  my  understanding  from  him  has  been  that  he  voted  the 
liepublican  ticket. 

Q.  Did  he  not  on  several  occasions  support  General  Yance  for  Con- 
gress?— A.  Not  to  my  knowledge;  he  may  have  done  so.  ' 

Q.  He  was  not  a  very  decided  Kepublicau  was  he,  at  all,  until  lat- 
terly ? — A.  More  so  latterly.     They  usually  get  better. 

Q.  As  long  as  they  last  they  get  better  ? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  he  had  been 
brought  up  a  Democrat,  and  he  started  out  a  Democrat  originally,  I 
think,  as  a  boy. 

Q.  I  mean  since  the  war  ? — A.  I  think  he  was  a  Democrat  at  tirst^ 
after  the  war. 

Q.  Did  not  his  Republicauism  improve  after  he  got  a  revenue  office; 
was  he  not  a  better  Republican  than  while  he  was  clerk  of  the  court  in 
a  Democratic  county  ? — A.  I  cannot  say  as  to  that. 

Q.  Do  von  know  Mr.  Garrison  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  W.  J.  Patterson  ?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  a  young  man  by  the  name  of  Gudger,  who  is  a  store- 
keeper ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  AYhat  is  his  given  name? — A.  I  do  not  recollect  his  given  nanu»; 
I  know  Gudger  was  a  storekeeper. 

Q.  What  akin  are  Thomas  and  William  Garrison?— A.  They  are 
brothers. 

Q.  What  akin  are  they  and  Mr.  Patterson  ?— A.  Patterson  is  a  nephew. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know^"^  that  the  interest  in  a  distillery  running  in  the 
name  of  John  P>rittain  belonged  to  one  of  the  Garrisons  ? — A.  iSo,  sir; 
I  do  iu»t  know  whose  names  those  distilleries  were  in. 


348  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  What  was  the  common  iimU'rstaudiiio-  in  the  community  about 
it? — A.  I  thought  that  Mr.  Garrison  was  running-  the  distilleries,  but  1 
•do  not  know  whether  in  his  name  or  whose  name  they  were  in. 

Q.  You  thought  Garrison  was  running  the  distillery  ? — A.  I  thought 
he  was. 

Q.  And  who  was  the  storekeeper  to  John  Brittain's  distillery— the 
one  running  in  his  name,  at  least  ? — A.  I  know  there  are  two  <listilleries 
out  there,  to  which  Patterson  and  Gudger  were  assigned.  Whose  dis- 
tilleries they  are  I  do  not  know;  I  just  know  they  were  out  there,  and 
-assigned  to  some  of  these  distilleries.  I  do  not  know  whether  Patter- 
son was  at  Brittain's — I  do  ijot  know  how  it  was. 

Q.  Do  you  know  J.  T.  Patterson,  senior? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  AVhat  akin  is  he  to  the  other  Patterson"? — A.  He  is  father. 

Q.  Father  of  one  and  the  uncle  of  the  other? — A.  He  is  the  father 
■of  William  Patterson  and  brother-in-law  of  William  Garrison. 

Q.  And  what  akin  is  Mr.  Gudger  to  the  old  man? — A.  I  do  not  know. 

Q.  Did  he  not  marry  his  daughter  or  niece? — A.  I  think  he  married 
his  daugliter. 

Q.  What  position  did  J.  T.  Patterson,  senior  hold  ? — A.  He  is  United 
States  commissioner. 

Q.  80  the  commissioner,  and  the  store-kepeers,  and  the  man  whom 
it  was  thought  was  running  the  distillery,  were  all  akin  ? — A.  Mr.  Pat- 
terson and  Mr.  Garrison  were  akin  and  so  was  Mr.  Gudger. 

Q.  If  Mv.  Garrison  had  any  interest  in  the  distillery,  of  course  he  was 
akin  also  '? — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  You  say  there  was  a  feeling  in  that  country  agaijist  the  enforcement 
•of  the  revenue  laws  ? — A.  I  think  there  was. 

Q.  Was  there  not  ground  for  that  bad  feeling  ? — A.  I  thiidv  that  the 
blockaders  were  rather  encouraged  there  by  some  of  our  i)eople,  who 
rather  winked  at  it. 

Q.  So  you  told  Mr.  I'ool ;  I  asked  you  if  there  w^is  not  ground  for 
this  bad  feeling  which  was  in  the  community  against  tlie  revenue  ofti- 
'Cers  ? — A.  The  revenue  otticers,  or  raiders  as  we  call  them  out  there, 
would  go  and  capture  their  stills  and  cut  them  up.  I  heard  occasion- 
iilly  some  of  them  complaining  that  they  had  been  abused,  or  something 
of  the  sort. 

Q.  AN'ert;  they  not  accused  of  terrorizing  over  the  ])eople,  going  abou< 
aimed,  insulting  ]t('0])le,  riding  rough-shod  over  the  community  and 
acting  as  lawless  men  ? — A.   I  (lid  hear  that. 

(^>.  Were  they  not  all  actixe  Pepublican  ])olitieians  in  tlie  revenue 
department'? — xV.  These  raiders? 

Q.  Yes? — A.  Xo,  sir;  occasionally  you  found  a  ])emocrat  with  the 
raiders. 

Q.  How  long  did  he  stay  a  Democrat  ? — A.  I  just  have  one  or  two  in 
iny  jiiiiid  now.  One  of  them  T  think  was  a  Deiiu>crat  when  he  went  in, 
then  he  was  ;i  i{ei)ublican  a  long  while,  an«l  recently  J  have  seen  him 
in  llie  Democratic  eonveruHons. 

().  He  is  no  longer  in  ollie*'? — A,  1  tliin]<  lie  is  still  in  oflice,  but  I  do 
not  think'  he  is  on  <lut\'. 

<i>.  Do  you  not  think  tli;it  lit  lu'se  reveniu' onieers  had  gon<' (piietly  for- 
ward, and  executed  tiie  duties  oftheir  ollice,  instead  of  making  so  much 
i'liss  in  politics,  that  t  lieic  would  not  be  so  much  leeHiig  against  them? — 
A.  I  tliiiik  thai  if  I  he  belter  class  of  our  peoph'  had  discouraged  block- 
•jiding.  Itiit  rather  encouraged  these  men  to  i)ut  it  down,  we  would  not 
lia\  c  Ii:i(|  >(»  niiicli  1 1  onlilc 

(}.    ^  On  ilo  iiol  ;iii.s\\  cr  ni\  (juesl  ion.      1  asl<ed  y(Mi  ilyon  did  not  think  if 


THE    .SIXTH    DISTKICT    OF    NORTH    CAi:  (LIN'A.  34i> 

these  ijieu  had  goue  (juietly  forward  and  executed  tlie  hiw,  and  not  taken 
any  snch  active  part  in  politics,  tliere  Avouhl  not  liave  l)een  so  much 
feeliufi- against  them? — A.  I  have  no  doubt  that  tlieir  i)olitics  encour- 
nj;ed  'the  feelin*;'. 

Q.  Their  action  as  partisans  enconraji;ed  the  feeling-  against  them. 

By  Mr.  Pool. 

().  Mr.  Burr  was  your  son-in  law  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  said  that  the  distillery  was  ]»ut  u])on  your  land  foi-  conven- 
ience if — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  ^Vhat  convenience  was  it;  was  there  not  a  mill  close  by  :' — A.  Y'es^ 
sir;  a  mill  close  by,  and  grain,  and  unn-h  more  convenient  to  town. 

Q.  And  it  was  more  convenient  to  the  town  than  if  it  had  l)een  on 
Mr.  Laiel's  land  ?— A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  How  far  does  .Mr.  Laiel  live  from  town? — A.  Four  miles  from  town. 

Q.  How  near  was  this  to  the  town  ? — A.  Three  quarters  of  a  niile. 

Q.  Then  ii:  was  more  convenient,  more  easy  to  get  grain,  and  nearer 
to  town  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  that  is  the  convenience  of  which  you  spoke  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  Y^ou  do  not  mean  that  it  was  put  there  at  your  instance — for  your 
convenience? — A.  Xo,  sir;  not  particularly  for  my  convenience.  Of 
course,  though,  it  was  much  more  convenient  for  me. 

J.  R.  Henderson  sworn  and  examined  for  the  governnuMit: 
By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  Wiiere  do  you  reside? — Answer.  Two  miles  abo\'e  Wilkes - 
boro'. 

Q.  AVhat  is  your  business  now"? — A.  I  am  a  storekeeper  and  ganger- 
at  this  time. 

Q.  For  whom! — A.  J.  R.  Coondjs. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  storekeeper  and  ganger! — A.  Since  the 
13th  or  15th  of  October,  1SG9,  the  date  when  I  was  assigned  there,  until 
some  time  in  1874. 

Q.  ^Vere  you  eiigaged  at  any  time  as  a  revenue  officer  bef<n'e  that 
time? — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  have  l)een  assistant  surveyor,  deputy  collector, 
assessor,  deputy  marshal,  and  ganger,  1  believe. 

Q.  Were  you  ever  storekeeper  before  that  time? — A.  Xo,  sir;  never 
storekeeper  before  that  time. 

Q.  How  long  were  you  out  of  the  service  altogether  ? — A.  About  seven 
years,  I  think ;  since  then  until  last  ( )ctober,  when  I  went  into  the  service 
again. 

Q.  And  then  you  went  to  Combs'? — A.  Y"es,  sir;  I  went  to  Combs'. 

Q.  That  was  the  hrst  time  you  had  been  in  the  service  for  seveir 
years'? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  What  kind  of  a  distillery  did  Combs  run  ? — A.  A  four-bushel  dis- 
tillery. 

Q.  How  much  was  the  product? — A.  Y'ou  mean  in  the  ditferenr 
months  I 

Q.  I  mean  i)er  bushel — the  average  production. — A.  He  makes  to  the 
rise  of  two  gallons. 

Q.  Did  you  know  anything  of  any  officer,  during  the  time  you  have 
been  ac(piainted  with  the  service— any  storekeepers  and  gaugers  di- 
viding their  i)av  with  the  distillers? — A.  I  have  no  personal  knowledge 
of  it. 

0.  If  you  have  heard  of  such  things,  idease  give  us  the  names  of 
those  whom  vou  have  heard  did  it  ? — A.  I  have  heard  it  as  talk  and  ap- 


350  COLLECTION    OF    INTERXAL    REVENUE    IN 

plied  j^eiierally.     I  Lave  not  heard  any  one  specially  connected  with 
it.     Yes,  I  did  hear  of  one  man  in  Yadkin  County. 

By  Mr.  Pool: 
Q.  That  is  in  the  sixth  district? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  believe  he  was  the 
only  person  that  I  can  bring  to  mind  that  was  mentioned  specially,  and 
that  was  from  a  revenue  agent  who  told  me  that. 

By  the  Chair:\ian: 

Q.  What  agent  ?— A.  Mr.  Kellogg. 

<^.  Who  was  it  he  said  had  divided? — A.  One  Longenour;  and  he 
told  me  the  whole  history  about  Longenour. 

Q.  ]3o  you  know  whether  he  made  any  report  of  it  or  not  ? — A.  I  do 
not.  I  will  tell  you  the  conversation  as  near  as  I  can.  When  he  met 
Mr.  Longenour  at  his  distillery,  he  said  what  were  you  doing  in  town 
yesterday?  He  said  he  went  to  town  to  get  his  mule,  and  then  he  asked 
him  if  he  had  not  divided  his  pay  with  the  distiller,  and  he  said  he  de- 
nied it,  but  his  actions  were  such  that  he  thought  he  had  done  it,  but 
he  had  no  proof  of  it,  and  he  asked  for  him  to  be  relieved  from  that  dis- 
tillery. 

Q.  That  was  the  whole  history  of  it  ? — A.  That  was  as  I  heard  it. 

Q.  Did  you  know  a  Mr.  May  or  Mays,  a  distiller  in  the  lower  part  of 
Wilkes? — A.  I  did  not  know  such  a  distiller;  if  there  is  such  a  distiller 
in  the  county,  I  do  not  know  it. 

Q.  J)o  you  know  Kiddle,  Parker,  and  Sanders  ? — A.  I  know  Parker; 
I  am  not  very  Avell  acquainted  with  Eiddle. 

Q.  Had  they  been  distilling? — A.  Sanders  has  one  running  now. 

Q.  Where  was  it  in  1879? — A.  About  two  miles  below  Wilkesboro,  I 
think. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  of  any  whisky  having  l)een  made  there 
while  their  distillery  was  under  suspension? — A.  I  do  not  of  my  own 
knowledge. 

Q.  What  did  you  hear  about  it  ? — A.  I  have  heard  such  a  rei>ort. 

Q.  Was  there  ever  an  investigation  made  that  you  know  of  about 
it? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  AVho  investigated  it? — A.  Mr.  Kellogg. 

Q.  AVhat  <lid  he  tind  ? — A.  He  said  he  found  that  there  was  some 
liquor  seized — some  two  hundred  gallons.  He  said  that  some  man  told 
liim  that  it  was  made  at  a  government  distillery.  He  knew  it  by  the 
taste  of  the  whisky.  He  said  he  had  no  doubt  of  it.  That  it  was  made 
at  that  distillery,  but  he  could  not  get  the  evidence  on  it.  I  talked  with 
liim  oil  the  subject, 

Q.  Who  was  the  stnreke«'i)er  ? — A.   I  think  jNFr,  Smith. 

().   What  Smith?— A.  Tlicoi)hilns  Smith. 

Mr.  I'oOL.  Do  you  mean  while  the  distillery  was  under  sus]»ension'? 

ThcCiiAiinrAN.  Vcs. 

]Mr.  i'ooi,.  There  's  no  store  kccjx'r  at  a  distillery  under  suspiMision. 

TIm!  ( 'irAMi^rAN.  There  were  ovei-  two  thousand  gallons  there. 

The  Wri'M'.ss.  1  do  not  know. 

(},.  N\'as  it  iindei'  the  charge  of  Theophilus  Smith  as  tlu^  store  keeper 
or  genei-;il  stoiekeeper  th<'r(!  ? — A.  lie  was  storekeeper  at  that  distil- 
lery. 

(^.  Do  \oii  know  ol'  liny  otiiei-  fiands  that  wei'e  said  to  ha"\'e  been  per- 
petrated in  tliat  nullity  of  yoiii' own  knowledge  :' — A.  ( )nly  rei)orts. 

().  Will  yoii  tell  IIS  what  rei»orts  yon  have  heai'd? — A.  \  have  heard 
of  some  slorek((|ici  >   thai  wcic   loose  in  their  business,  and   know  that 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  351 

t  was  fVe(|ueiitly  charged  that  they  divided  their  salary — that  they 
were  rather  loose. 

Q.  Did  yon  hear  that  storekeepers  had  as.sisted  in  reiiioviii;^-  wlii.sky 
from  the  cistern  rooms f — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  have  heard  sncli  rei»ort.s  as 
that. 

Q.  Can  yon  give  the  names  of  the  parties  who  were  charged  with 
it? — A.  No,  sir;  I  cannot. 

Q.  What  were  the  reports;  give  ns  some  ])articnlais  of  the  rejxnts? — 
A.  Well,  sir,  I  had  talks  with  some  storekeepers  that  had  been  loose 
in  the  bnsiness,  and  prol)ably  allowed  the  distiller  to  remove  the  whisky 
withont  paying  the  taxes. 

Q.  They  had  private  dealings  Mith  the  distillers? — A.  Yes,  sii. 

Q.  Do  yon  know  of  any  tnbs  being  cnt  down,  up  in  that  conntry 
wdien  Mr.  Kellogg  was  expected  to  visit  the  country? — A.  I  do  not 
know;  there  was  a  survey  ordered  there  once — I  don't  know  whether 
before  Mr.  Kellogg  came  up,  or  directly  afterwards — and  a  new  survey 
of  ail  the  distilleries  in  that  country  was  nnide.  Some  tubs  were  coii- 
sidered  too  large  and  some  were  not  large  enough — not  as  large  as  the 
law  allowed. 

Q.  What  did  that  survey  result  in  as  a  general  rule? — A.  The  tub  is 
allowed  to  hold  sixty  gallons  of  water  to  the  bushel  of  mash.  If  the 
tub  holds  over  sixty  gallons,  the  distiller  could  use  more  meal;  if  it  holds 
uiuler  he  could  not  use  his  meal,  because  the  mash  would  be  too  thick; 
if  it  was  over  and  it  was  too  thin  he  could  put  in  more  meal  and  keep  it 
at  the  same  gravity. 

Q.  What  was  the  result  of  that  survey — did  it  result  in  a  cutting  down 
of  the  tubs? — A.  [  believe  some  of  the  tuljs  were  cut  down ;  but  very  little, 
though. 

Q.  Did  Capt.  Peden  go  around  and  examine  things  when  it  was  heard 
Mr.  Kellogg  was  coming? — A.  I  don't  know,  sir, 

Q.  He  was  the  officer  that  made  this  survey  ? — A.  He  Mas  not  the 
officer  who  made  the  first  survey.  1  think  he  was  on  duty  when  Mr. 
Kellogg  came. 

Q.  How  is  the  state  of  things  up  there  in  that  country? — A.  AVhat 
do  you  allude  to? 

Q.  I  jnean  the  feeling  toward  the  re^'enne  officers  executing  the  law, 
and  so  on? — A.  The  feeling  toward  the  revenue  officers  is  not  as  bitter 
as  it  has  been  there.  Very  little  is  said  now  in  regard  to  the  revenue  when 
a  raid  is  made  at  this  time  on  the  distillers;  there  is  very  little  blockad- 
ing going  on,  if  any.  There  used  to  be  a  great  deal  of  talk  with  the 
])eople  when  a  distillery  was  cut  down.  They  generallj'  ran  everywhere 
telling  each  other  that  the  officers  Avere  coming.  But  there  is  veiy  little 
said  about  that  now. 

Q.  Where  was  most  of  the  blockade  distilling  done  in  Wilkes 
County  ? — A,  In  the  Brushy  Mountains,  south  of  Wilkesboro,  on  Hunt- 
ing Creek,  or  rather  southeast,  and  there  on  jNIulberry,  north  about  nine 
uules  and  west  about  nhie  miles. 

Q.  Was  this  illicit  distilling  confined  to  any  particular  .party  ? — A. 
Ko,  sir. 

Q.  All  were  included  in  it  without  regard  to  politics? — A.  1  believe 
so. 

Q.  Was  resistance  to  the  officers,  if  any  took  place,  confined  to  any 
political  i)arty  ? — A.  Xot  in  every  instance.  The  lie])nblicans  sometimes 
resisted  the  officers. 

Q.  Were  the  IJepublicans  up  there  as  a  general  rule  like  they  were  in 
other  parts  of  the  country — strong  party  men .' — A.  The  officers  as  a 


352  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

general  thing:  were  Republicans.  There  Avere  some  exceptions ;  one  of 
the  raiders  1  knew  to  be  a  Democrat. 

Q.  Were  they  active  party  men,  working  lor  their  party  ? — A.  Work- 
ing as  Democrats  for  their  party  ? 

Q.  Xo;  were  they  for  the  liei)ub]icans  ? — A.  Oh,  yes,  most  of  the 
officers  that  are  Republicans  are  active  men  working  for  their  party. 

Q.  Did  the  revenue  department  run  the  politics  of  that  country,  so 
far  as  its  policy,  candidates,  etc.,  were  concerued  ? — A.  To  some  extent. 

Q.  That  is  so  all  over  the  district,  so  far  as  you  know? — A.  I  cannot 
give  you  any  ytositive  answer  out  of  my  county.  The  distillers  are  gen- 
erally the  leading  men  of  the  party,  therefore  they  have  a  great  deal  to 
do  in  shai)ing  things. 

Q.  If  the  officers  had  not  been  active  party  men  ;  had  not  been  work- 
ing for  their  party  so  much,  would  there  not  have  been  less  feeling 
against  them? — A.  I  cannot  tell  that,  because  the  Republicans  got  as 
mad  when  a  distillery  was  cut  up  as  the  Democrats.  That  was  the 
general  feeling  against  the  revenue.  All  parties  felt  very  bitter  at  one 
time  against  them. 

Q.  This  feeling  was  from  all  parties! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Would  not  that  feeling  have  been  a  little  less  bitter A.  (Inter- 
rupting) I  do  not  think  an  officer  could  have  done  his  duty  and  had  the 
good  will  of  anybody  when  I  first  went  in. 

Q.  Withcmt  regard  to  his  politics  !^A.  Without  regard  to  his  poli- 
tics. I  went  there  under  Mr.  Wylie.  There  had  been  one  deputy's  barn 
burned  up,  and  another  notified  that  if  he  ever  moved  any  more,  to  take 
the  conseijuences;  another  knocked  into  a  slop-vat,  and  the  distdler 
tried  to  turn  the  slop  out  on  him;  and  one  deputy  killed. 

Q.  Who  was  that  that  w^as  knocked  into  the  slop-vat f — A.  Mr.  Sprin- 
kle, from  Charlotte. 

Q.  AVho  was  the  distiller? — A.  I  cannot  call  his  name  just  now.  I 
arrested  him  after  that. 

Q.  Who  was  killed"? — A.  I  forget  his  name;  he  was  killed  before  I 
went  into  the  service.  And  when  I  went  there  Wylie  said  to  me,  if  I 
went  there  ami  executed  the  law  he  would  give  me  a  deputy's  position; 
that  he  never  had  a  man  he  could  get  to  execute  the  law  tliere,  and  he 
warned  me  that  I  took  my  life  in  my  hand  when  I  went  there. 

(^.  And  you  went  ? — A.  I  did. 

Q.  And  did  your  duty? — A.  1  did. 

Q.  And  you  are  here  yet? — A.  I  am  here  yet;  and  I  made  some 
friends  while  executing  it. 

(}.  You  became  a  citizen  of  that  county  and  bought  some  ])roi)erty 
there '? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Cross-examination  by  Mr.  Pool: 

Q.  ^Ir.  Kellogg  told  you  that  lie  had  recommended  ^Mr.  Longenour's 
HMiioval  ? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

ii.  Was  lie  removed? — A.  lie  was,  from  that  distillery. 

(^>.  ]Mi'.  Kellogg  told  y(»u  that  he  thought,  <u'  that  somebody  told  him 
that  tliey  thought,  tliat  200  gallons  were  made  down  at  that  distillery, 
because,  it  tasted  like  it  was  made  there? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  said  that  was 
a  \(^ry  vagn<;  idea.  ' 

Q.  Coidd  he  jtrove  by  any  other  reason  that  it  was  made  there,  except 
the  taste? — A.  Jle  said  the  i>ai-ty  could  not. 

(^.  ."Mr.  Kellogg  was  a  revenne/ollicer  ? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

(^.  Do  you  know  he  reportcil  the  facts  about  the  LMH)  gallons  that  were 
made  there  on  that  testimony  ? — A.   I  <lo  not  know  that    he  rei»oited  it;, 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  353 

several  of  the  revenue  officers  told  me — the  si)eciiil  force — that  they 
thought  tliat  it  Avas  made  tliere,  but  could  not  get  any  proof  of  it. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  peculiar  taste  to  the  wliisky  that  was  made 
at  tliat  particuhir  still? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  I  could  tell  the  taste 
between  that  and  any  made  anywhere  else.  I  am  not  a  very  good 
judge  of  the  article. 

Q.  You  say  a  survey  was  ordered? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  who  ordered  the  survey  ? — A.  I  do  not  know.  There 
was  a  survey  made  of  the  distilleries. 

(^.  Ordered  by  the  re\enne  authorities  of  the  district  .' — A.  1  sup- 
pose so. 

Q.  For  the  ]»nrpose  of  having  the  tubs  cut  down  to  conform  to  the 
law?— A.  To  the  law. 

Q.  They  found  some  of  them  a  little  less,  and  some  of  them  a  little 
more  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  were  indicted  up  therein  connection  with  that  administration, 
of  the  office  of  ganger,  were  you  not? — A.  Yes,  sir,  as  a  ganger. 

Q.  What  were  you  indicted  for  ? — A.  Well,  sir,  there  was  a  discrepancy 
between  one  month's  account,  where  it  appeared  in  the  a(;count  that  I 
had  charged  for  two  distilleries  where  1  had  not  worked  at  all. 

Q.  Do  you  mean  one  or  two  that  you  had  not  worked  at? — A.  Two, 
that  I  ha<l  not  worked  at.  I  worked  at  three  distilleries  for  which  there 
was  no  charge  made,  and  another  ganger  made  an  account  for  tln^  work, 
and  my  work  was  made  out  for  his  work — -just  I'ice  versa. 

Q.  Did  you  make  out  the  account  ? — A.  No,  sir,  1  did  not. 

Q.  Who  made  it  out"? — A.  Clarke  made  it  out. 

Q.  You  mean  Mr.  Clarke  in  Dr.  Mott's  office? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Who  made  out  the  other  ganger's  accounts?  Clarke  made  out  the 
other  accounts  also  ? — A.   ^es,  sir. 

Q.  Were  your'ssent  in  as  made  out  by  IMr.  Clarke? — A.  I  signed  the 
account  myself,  but  1  never  examined  the  account — -just  merely  signed  it. 

Q.  It  was  found  that  it  was  a  mistake  of  Clarke's. — A.  Yes,  sir ;  a 
mistake. 

Q.  Did  it  turn  out  to  be  so  in  this  case  ? — A.  It  did.  I  did  not  get  my 
59.  I  reported  to  the  office  of  the  Commissioner  when  they  showed  me 
the  account.  They  said  there  was  a  discrepancy,  and  that  I  had  not  done 
the  work.  It  was  Mr.  Foster's.  I  told  them  I  had  not  worked  there. 
I  told  them  that  it  was  a  mistake,  and  if  the}'  would  look  up  my  oO  in 
the  form  I  reported,  they  would  Tind  that  I  worked  at  Lanier's  and 
Dulan's. 

Q.  AVhat  time  was  that;  what  year? — A.  I  think  it  was  in  1874. 

Q.  It  was  then  a  blunder  of  Mr.  Clarke's? — A.  Yes,  sir;  unintention- 
ally. 

Q.  On  Clarke's  part '? — A.  He  could  not  have  any  motive  for  it,  unless 
he  was  an  enemy,  because  he  would  not  have  received  a  cent  for  doing  it. 

Q.  Then  you  had  to  put  in  an  amended  voucher? — A.  Thej'  i)aid  me 
upon  the  account  according  to  the  work.  If  I  had  got  my  own  work  it 
would  have  given  me  a  larger  sum  than  the  amount  of  the  (Uie  I  had. 

Q.  So  really  the  statement  of  Clarke  was  against  your  interest? — A. 
Against  my  interest.  I  worked  at  three  distilleries  instead  of  two,  and 
it  only  gave  me  credit  for  the  work  at  two. 

Q.  Was  the  indictment  settle<l  ? — A.  It  was  nolle-prossed. 

Q.  Did  it  turn  out  then  to  be  simply  a  mistake  of  Dr.  Alott's  clerk,  in 
making  u[)  the  accounts  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  AVhich  you  signed  without  examining  ? — A.  Those  men  were  very 
X)articular.     They  had  sent  back  two  or  three  accounts,  I  knew,  to  his 
S.  Mis.  IIG 23 


35  i  COLLECTION    OF    INTKIiNAL    KEVE.VUE    IN 

office,  for  the  ^yaufjcrs  did  not  understand  how  to  make  then  out  accord- 
ing; to  what  we  called  the  "red-tape"  system,  and  so  we  got  Clarke  to 
make  them  out,  so  that  our  accounts  would  not  be  hung'  up  at  the 
department,  and  we  would  get  our  pay.  I  said  further  that  I  had  done 
more  work  than  I  had  charged  the  government  for.  I  had  done  a  great 
deal  of  work  as  a  deputy  collector,  as  a  matter  of  convenience,  and 
helped  Mr.  liamsey,  who  was  a  deputy  in  that  district. 

By  the  Chairman  :  • 

Q.  What  year  was  that  ? — A.  Some  time  between  1870  and  1874. 
Q.  It  must  have  been  after  1872? — A.  It  was  after  1872.     I  worked 
under  Mr.  Wylie  for  four  years. 

By  Mr.  roOL : 

Q.  Was  not  Clarke  in  the  habit  of  making  out  accounts  for  other 
gangers "? — A.  I  think  he  made  out  most  of  the  gangers  accounts  in  the 
district. 

Q.  Did  he  not  make  some  blunders  for  others  ? — A.  1  suppose  so. 

Q.  Mr.  Crane  reported  those,  did  he  not ! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Up  here  to  the  bureau  ? — A;  Yes,  sir,  to  Washington  City. 

Q.  3Ir.  Crane  was  the  revenue  agent! — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  told  him  to 
investigate  my  accounts. 

Q.  What  did  Crane  say  to  you  ?  Wliat  was  his  report  after  he  found 
out  how  it  was  ? — A.  I  told  liim  from  the  dates  where  I  made  my  ac- 
counts to  investigate  them.  I  told  him  I  admitted  those  mistakes  after 
I  saw  them,  but  if  from  the  date  I  commenced  making  out  my  accounts, 
if  he  investigated  it,  and  found  a  dollar  charged  to 'the  Government 
not  actually  worked  for,  that  I  would  plead  guilty  in  any  court ;  and  he 
investigated  it,  and  the  end  of  it  was  that  he  made  a  nolle  pros,  of  it. 

Q.  Did  he  tell  you  that  he  made  a  mistake  in  his  former  report  ? — A. 
He  said  he  found  it  different ;  when  he  commenced  investigating  it  he 
looked  upon  it  that  I  had  been  doing  something  corruptly. 

i}.  Did  he  not  tell  you  that  he  found  that  it  was  a  mistake  in  regard 
to  the  others  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  not  hear  that  upon  his  investigation  he  had  expressed 
himself  that  it  was  ''all  boshf — A.  He  used  that  expression  about  some 
accounts  that  were  put  in  by  ]Mr.  Kestler,  M'hen  he  talked  to  me  about 
them  ;  In;  was  very  much  embittered  against  Dr.  Mott,  and  said  that 
he  wouhl  investigate  those  things,  and  if  he  fouiul  it  like  he  thought  it 
was,  he  intended  to  turn  Dr.  Mott  out.  After  his  investigation  he  told 
me  he  found  it  was  all  bosh. 

(^.  lie  spoke  especially  of  the  Kestler  matter  ? — A.  Kestler  and  other 
vouchers. 

Q.  And  Kamsey's  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  whether  he  mentioned  Ram- 
sey's or  not,  but  some  others. 

By  the  Chaikman.: 

Q.  When  did  this  talk  take  place  between  you  and  .Air.  Ciane  ? — A. 
It  was  the  second  term  of  the  court  at  Statesville. 

Q.  In  what  year' — A.  Afier  he  had  nnide  his  investigation  of  the 
ofliccrs. 

(}.  What  year  was  that? — A.  It  lias  been  scA'cn  or  eight  years  ago. 

(^).  IIow  long  was  it  after  Clarke  had  made  this  mistake  in  your 
Nonclieis  I — A.   IIow  long  was  it  aflcrwards  ? 

i).  Yes,  sir. — A.  Jt  was  some  six  or  eight  months,  during  one  term  of 
the  court  or  another. 


THE    SIXTH    ])ISTKICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  355 

Q.  Wlieii  were  you  indicted  ?— A.  J  foij^et  the  year;  I  could  not  tell 
without  looking  ou  some  i)ai)ers,  probably. 

Q.  I\rr.  Clarke  left  Doctor  Mott's  oHice'in  1871  ?— A.  I  think  that  was 
the  time,  somewhere  in  1874. 

Q.  He  left  it  on  account  of  being  indicted  for  those  various  mistakes  ^ 
— A.  Yes,  sir;  he  was  susi)ended.     1  do  not  know  Avhether  turned  out. 

Q.  Of  course  lie  was  in  when  he  made  tlie  mistake  in  your  vonchers  ? 
— A.  Yes,  sir  ;  they  were  not  vouchers  in  m,|i  case.  Those  voucher 
accounts  were  not  considered  vouchers;  they  were  accounts  that  item- 
ized the  amouut  of  whisky  gauged  each  day,  and  the  per  cent,  if  gauged 
at  I2i,  the  amouut  of  traveling  done,  and  iit  the  distilleries  ;  the  ac- 
count was  itemized  like  that ;  first  the  amount  gauged,  then  the  per 
ceut.  it  cost  to  gauge  it,  the  distance  travel'Ml,  ami  the  expenses  in- 
curred in  traveling,  were  in  the  voucher. 

Q.  They  were  not  vouchers? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Were  you  indicted  before  Mr.  Clarke  went  out,  or  after?— A. 
Eight  at  the  time. 

Q.  That  was  the  fall  of  1874>— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  know  when  Dr.  Mott  was  turned  out  himself? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  When  was  that  ? — A.  It  was  in  1874  or  1875. 

Q.  It  was  in  1875. — A.  I  think  probably  it  was. 

Q.  Was-  this  conversation  before  or  after  Dr.  Mott  was  turned  out  of 
the  ofiice '? — A.  I  could  not  state  exactly  whether  it  was  before  or  after ; 
it  has  been  some  time ;  I  could  not  be  i)ositive. 

Q.  You  stated  that  he  said  he  had  first  intended  to  have  Dr.  ]\[ott 
turned  out,  but  after  investigating  it  he  found  it  was  all  bosh  ? — A.  On 
those  accounts  he  intimated  that  he  had  Dr.  Mott.  He  came  to  me 
privately  and  asked  me  if  I  had  signed  any  ;  1  told  him  I  had  not  signed 
any.  I  never  had  signed  any  i)ay  as  deputy  collector,  except  one  month 
that  I  worked.  He  mentioned  several  that  had  signed,  and  he  said 
he  expected  to  prosecute  them.  He  talked  to  me,  and  to  some  of  us 
officers,  and  then  afterwards  he  told  me  that  those  accounts  were  all 
bosh  that  were  put  in. 

Q.  He  told  you,  as  I  understand,  that  he  thought  at  first  he  intended 
to  have  Dr.  Mott  turned  out  of  office'? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  But  after  he  investigated  it  he  found  they  were  all  bosh? — A.  He 
said  they  never  paid  any  money  on  them. 

Q.  ])o  you  recollect  Avhether  Dr.  Mott  bad  been  turned  out  l)efore  or 
at  the  time  of  this  conversation"? — A.  I  cannot;  I  cannot  state  posi- 
tively, because  Dr.  Mott  was  out  such  a  short  time. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  I  understand  you  to  have  had  two  conversations  with  Mr.  Crane  ? 
— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  At  which  conversations  he  said  he  had  the  figures  on  Dr.  Mott, 
and  was  going  to  try  and  have  him  turned  out  I — A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  Tbat  is  not  the  way  ;  but  he  said  at  first  that  he  intended  to  have 
him  turned  out,  but  after  he  investigated  it  he  found  it  was  all  bosh. — 
A.  Of  course  it  was  two  different  times.  That  was  the  way  I  meant. 
It  would  have  been  impossible  for  him  to  have  investigated  it  while  he 
was  talking  to  me. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 
Q.  There  were  then  two  conversations  you  state  now  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


356  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  After  the  tirst  conversation  he  said  he  had  tliose  things  against 
Dr.  Mott  f— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  lUit  afterwards,  in  the  second  conversation  you  liad  with  him,  he 
said  tliat  upon  lurther  investigation  he  found  it  was  all  bosh  ! — A.  YeSy 
sir. 

Q.  And  that  included  the  Kestler  vouchers  with  others? — A.  It  in- 
cluded tljat  class  of  vouchers. 

Q.  Dr.  Mott  was  restored  f — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

J.  J.  Mott  was  sworn  and  examined. 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  Where  do  you  reside? — Answer.  Statesville,  jSTorth  Caro- 
lina. 

Q.  Y'ou  were  the  collector  of  revenue  in  the  sixth  district  of  Xortb 
Carolina? — A.  I  was. 

Q.  When  did  you  go  into  the  sixth  district? — A.  In  the  spring  of '72. 

Q.  Then  jou  continued  to  be  collector  until  within  the  last  two 
months? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Had  you  any  acquaintance  with  the  internal  revenue  service 
previous  to  the  time  you  were  appointed? — A.  Xo,  sir;  I  knew  nothing 
of  it  whatever. 

Q.  Y^ou  were  entirely  unacquainted  with  it  ? — A.  Y'es  sir. 

Q.  Was  there  a  supervisor  of  internal  revenue  at  that  time? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Mr.  Perry  ? — A.  Mr.  Perry,  who  lived  at  Raleigh,  and  had  his  head- 
quarters at  Paleigh. 

Q.  ])id  he  recommend  Mr.  Clarke  as  an  experienced  officer  to  set  your 
office  ijoing,  and  instinct  you? — A.  He  sent  Clarke  there. 

Q.  Did  he  recommend  him  to  you? — A.  Yes,  sir;  as  a  man  who  had 
some  experience  in  rcAenue  matters  under  Collector  Young. 

Q.  J)id  he  recommend  him  as  a  person  to  be  relied  upon  in  the  mak- 
ing out  of  pa])ers  and  putting  matters  under  way? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  he 
recommended  him  in  every  sense,  except  that  he  was  a  little  inclined  to 
drink. 

Q.  You  then  ai)i)()inted  him  your  clerk? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Y^ou  were  then  in  the  midst  of  the  political  campaign? — A.  The 
cam])aign  commenced  soon  afterwards.  That  was  in  the  spring  of  ISTU. 
Tlie  cam])aign  ijommenced  soon  after  that,  and  was  actively  carried  on 
in  North  Carolina  dujing  tlmt  year.  I  took  ])art  in  it  and  left  the  a.ftairs 
of  the  office  piin  -ipally  in  tlie  hands  of  Mr.  Chirke. 

Q.  Did  lie  prei)are  the  pa]>ers  that  were  necessary  for  the  routine 
work  of  the  ()ffi(;e? — A.  He  did  all  the  routine  of  the  office.  I  only 
snpeivised  tlie  ai)i)ointment  of  officers  and  assigned  them  to  their  duty; 
told  tliem  what  to  do,  generally  kept  th(i  run  of  that. 

(}.  All  along  through  that  year  all  the  formal  ])apers  and  reports  were 
mad(;  out  by  him? — A,  There  are  a  great  many  reports.  Clarke  was 
the  only  clerk  I  had,  and  he  made  out  all  the  accounts  and  rei)orts,  and 
everythnig  of  that  sort  that  was  necessary  to  keep  up  with  the  reciuire- 
menls  of  the  office  here  at  Washington. 

(^.  Did  yon  sign  them  without  investigation? — A.  Usually  when  I 
signetl  them  at  all  it  was  without  in\'estigation.  Sometimes  they  were 
sigiu'd  in  lihiiik.  That  has  been  a  long  tiiiui  ago,  and  I  <lo  not  remem- 
bei'  exaetly  whether  1  ever  signcMl  a  portion  of  them  or  not.  I  remem- 
that  the  work  was  done  by  Clarke,  and  lie  made  all  the  i)apers  out.  I 
ant lioii/.ed  him  to  sign  my  name  to  tln'm  whene\'er  necessary  to  be  done 
lor  the  puii>(»se  of  keeping  up  his  aceouiits  here. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  357 

Q.  Practicallv  for  a  time  you  left  everything;'  in  liis  liaiid.s,  and  fol- 
lowed his  directions,  in  all  these  formal  matters — up  to  a  certain  time? 
— A.  He  did  nil  tluit  \\()rk;   1  authorized  Mr,  ('larketo  do  all  that  work. 

Q.  You  had  a  reliance  u])on  him,  based  ui)on  the  reconunendation 'of 
the  supervisior? — A.  Yes,  sir;  and  also  with  the  understandinj^-  that  it 
is  customary  for  clerks  to  sij^ii  other  names  in  our  business. 

Q.  You  understood  that  that  was  a  general  custom  in  the  ser\ice? — 
A.  Yes,  sir.  That  custom  ])re>'ails  in  a  good  many  oflices  in  the  country 
to  this  day.  It  is  absolutely  ne(;essary  for  collectors,  to  delegate  those 
l^owers  to  some  one  in  a  large  office.  The  collector  cannot  possibly  do 
it,  unless  his  whole  time  is  employed  there. 

Q.  These  Kestler  vouchers  were  in  the  character  of  the  business  that 
Mas  left  to  Mr.  Clarke  in  that  way"? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  When  you  first  heard  of  this  Kestler  ndstake,  did  yon  take  imme- 
diate steps  to  correct  it?— A.  I  heard  of  the  Kestler  matter  iirst  in  the 
rei)ort  of  Mr.  Crane,  I  think — this  report  that  I  have  seen  here  since  I 
came,  and  to  which  I  rejdied  at  the  time.  I  had  no  knowledge  of  it  be- 
fore that.  I  emi)loyed  these  men  from  time  to  time,  and  changed  them. 
There  were  a  fcAv  of  them,  you  know,  who  took  places,  and  then  we 
changed,  and  put  them  in  the  other  i)laces.  Kestler  was  recommended 
to  me,  or  I  was  requested  by  some  political  friends  in  Salisbury  to  give 
Mr.  Kestler  work.  He  came  up  there  in  the  fall  of  1872,  and  remained, 
I  thitdx:,  about  ten  days.  I  found  he  was  not  the  man  who  would  suit 
the  business — that  he  was  not  only  feeble,  but  had  but  one  arm — for  the 
active  work  that  would  be  required  of  a  de])uty  in  those  days.  It  was 
necessary  that  he  should  be  a  vigorous  man.  There  was  a  good  deal  of 
op])osition  to  the  law,  and  it  was  much  easier  for  a  strong  robust  man 
to  execute  it  than  a  weak  one.  For  some  reason  or  another,  he  re- 
turned home.  I  was  busy  about  the  time;  I  only  remember  that  I  de- 
cided not  to  keep  him,  and  put  some  one  else  to  do  the  work,  and  it  went 
on  in  that  way.     The  other  man  did  the  work  in  the  regular  way. 

Q.  Who  was  the  other  man;  Mr.  W^alker? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  acted  as 
dei)uty  during  that  period.  ]\Iy  recollection  is,  in  some  instances  he 
acted  as  deputy  ])revious  to  that.  He  was  actively  at  work  at  the  time, 
engaged  in  traveling  about  the  country,  from  place  to  i)lace,  as  a  ganger, 
and  in  doing  the  work.  He  being  an  efficient  man  in  that  way,  he  was 
required  to  police  around  for  the  wagons  that  were  conveying  illicit 
spirits  and  tobacco  through  that  country  at  that  time.  A  great  <leal  of 
it  was  going  on  through  that  section,  and  Walker  was  in  that  neighbor- 
hood. Around  Statesville  there  was  a  good  deal  of  blockaded  whisky 
being  hauled  into  town  in  wagons,  and  lie  had  work  as  a  deputy  in  that 
way.  He  could  go  to  a  distillery  eight,  ten,  or  fifteen  miles  away,  gauge 
a  barrel  of  whisky  at  that  place,  and  then  do  this  other  work  on  his 
travels. 

Q.  I  see  his  ])ay  commenced  the  21st  of  October,  1872,  and  ran  to  the 
20th  of  May,  187.3.  Was  he  really  engaged  in  the  service  during  that 
time  as  a  deputy? — A.  Oh,  yes;  he  Avas  employed  in  that  way;  all  the 
time  working.  The  records  of  the  office  show- he  was  a  deputy  all  tlie 
time. 

Q.  And  you  found  vouchers  sent  in  in  the  name  of  Kestler  for  that 
time? — A.  That  was  after  Mr.  Crane  nnide  his  report. 

Q.  That  was  the  first  time  you  knew  it,  and  up  to  the  3()th  of  June, 
1873,  I  think,  the  voucher  ran  ;  Mr.  Walker  was  em])loyed  nj)  to  3Iay  20, 
1873;  after  that  1  see,  Mcintosh  was  put  in  his  place  ? — A.  I  do  not  know 
whether  it  ran  that  way  in  the  account  or  not. 


3.58  COLLECTIOX  OF  INTERNAL  KEVKNUE  IX 

Q.  Yes,  sir;  Mr.  Mcintosh  and  Mr.  ]jiyaii;  it  was  in  evidence,  in  Mr. 
AValker's  testimony. — A.  I  think  I  renieinl»er  that. 

Q.  Mr.  ]\rcTntosh  commenced  INIay  20 ;  after  that  time  you  were  enti- 
tled to  four  deputies  instead  of  three.  All  these  jjientlemen  perfoi"  .ed 
the  service  f — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  they  were  deputies. 

Q.  But  still  the  accounts  went  in  in  the  name  of  Kestler? — A.  y  >  I 
found  afterwards. 

Q.  Did  you  i)ay  your  deputies  before  all  the  vouchers  were  sent  in  ? — 
A.  Y"es,  sir ;  that  was  necessarily  so.  In  that  country  a  great  many  of 
the  deputies  had  no  money,  and  we  were  obliged  to<idvance  it  from  time 
to  time  to  them. 

Q.  Did  you  pay  Mr.  Kestler! — A.  Yes,  sir;  Mr.  Kestler  was  i)aid. 

Q.  Before  the  voucher  was  sent  in  1 — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Sixty-five  dollars? — A.  I  think  it  was   before  anj^  voucher  w; 
sent  in  for  him  that  he  was  paid. 

Q.  He  stated  that  it  was  $65? — A.  I  do  not  know  whether  the  last 
man  was  paid  before  the  voucher  went  in  or  not;  of  course  the  first  was. 
He  was  only  there  a  few  days,  I  think,  and  I  gave  him  some  of  it,  I  think, 
when  he  left. 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  ever  signing  the  original  accounts? — A.  The  ab- 
stracts ? 

Q.  Some  abstracts  that  were  shown  here. — A.  Are  you  s[)eaking 
about  the  quarterly  accounts? 

Q.  Yes. — A.  The  original  voucher,  shown  there,  I  do  not  remember 
ever  having  seen,  and  I  did  not  sign  the  account. 

Q.  You  mean  they  were  not  in  your  handwriting  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Who  did  sign 'them  ?— A.  Mr.  Clarke.  '     • 

Q.  He  put  your  name  on  them  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  This  is  his  handwrit- 
ing. 

Q.  Has  that  whole  matter  undergone  a  full  investigation  by  the  bu- 
reau ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  That  matter  was  investigated  here.  A  report  was 
made  against  me  by  Mr.  Crane,  the  revenue  agent,  and  the  matter  was 
investigated.  I  will  nuike  a  statement  about  that  matter  to  you.  When 
I  went  in  as  collector,  a  short  tinie  after  I  went  in  a  man  by  the  name 
of  Jordan,  a  tobacco  manufacturer  in  Davie  County,  had  his  tobacco 
seized  by  an  ofticer  in  South  Carolina.  North  Carolina  and  South  Caro- 
lina were  both  under  the  control  of  Supervisor  Perry.  Jordan  was  in 
my  distri(;t,  and  came  to  me,  and  made  re])resentations  with  regard  to 
the  seizure  of  the  tobacco  by  this  South  Carolina  man,  and  1  thought 
injustice;  had  been  done  him,  and  I  attempted  to  have  the  tobacco  re- 
store«l  to  him.  I  was  opi)osed  in  that  matter  by  the  supervisor.  I  met 
him  in  JJaleigh  some  time  after  that,  and  had  some  talk  about  it,  and 
some  wor<ls,  and  Ik;  made  some  remarks  to  me  that  I  di<l  not  think, 
though  1  was  a  subordinate,  that  1  ought  to  take  from  liiui  without 
ex])r('ssing  my  indignation  about  it,  and  1  did  exi)ress  myself  indignantly 
to  him.  Shortly  after  that  time  .Air.  Crane  (;anu^  into  my  district,  and 
commenced  searching  around.  I  could  hear  of  him  going  about  inquir- 
ing from  every])ody  if  they  knew  anything  about  my  matters,  or  of  any- 
t]iing(!onne<-ted  witii  nu;  in  tiie  district.  That  went  on  for  sometime,  and 
1  beeiimesiit  isfied  lie  was  trying  to  circumvent  me,  and  have  me  removed, 
and  finally  1  heard  that  he  had  some  matters  which  he  (Concluded  would 
be  siinieient  for  his  ]nii])ose.  1  did  not  know  what  they  wen;  ceraintly 
until  1  s;iw  Ihe  re|»(>it.  1  came  on  to  Washington  alter  I  heard  1  was 
reiiKtved,  iiiid  inquired  ai)()ut  tlu;  matter.  I  had  hear<l  in  t!ie  mean  time 
what  had  taken  ))laee,  and  the  things  that  were;  a  cause  of  complaint. 
As  I  understood  it  then  it  was  an  increased  amount  of  vou(;hers  in  the 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  359 

case  of  Eainsay  that  had  been  jiiit  iii  there  for  a  certain  ainonnt,  and 
that  they  were  in  excess  of  the  amount  that  liad  been  pai<l  ^Ir.  Kainsay. 
I  called  the  attention  of  the  clerk  to  the  matter. 

'"  '  By  the  Chairman: 

Q,.  The  clerk  here  at  Washin,!L;ton  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  and  told  him  they 
we''e  mistaken  about  it,  and  if  tbcy  would  <;()  over  to  the  proper  otlice, 
where  the  account  was  adjusted,  they  would  liiid  that  thev  had  made  a 
mistake  ;  and  I  supi)osed  they  did  so.  I  went  in  the  next  dny  and  Ibuiid 
them  somewhat  excited  over  the  matter,  and  I  sent  in  and  inquired  as 
to  Avhether  the  thing  had  l)een  looked  into  or  not,  and  got  very  little 
satisfaction.  I  then  went  to  Judge  Settle,  Mr.  Smith,  and  other  friends 
of  mine  and  asked  them  to  go  to  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue 
a  id  request  that  I  be  fuinished  with  a  statement  of  the  charges  or  the 
ause  of  my  removal. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 
Q.  Who  was  the  Commissioner  then  ? — A.  Mr.  Douglass.  They  went 
in,  and  brought  me  a  message  back  that  Mr.  Douglass  said  he  had  no 
charges  against  me,  or  my  integrity,  but  that  I  was  dabbling  in  railroad 
matters  and  farms,  and  doing  other  things  down  there  in  North  Carolina, 
and  not  giving  the  business  my  i^ersonal  attention,  and  he  was  going 
to  have  some  one  there  who  would  give  the  olfice  his  personal  attention. 
I  then  requested  these  gentlemen  to  go  to  the  President  and  lay  the 
matter  before  him,  and  tell  him  what  I  had  understood  were  the  causes 
of  their  action  in  the  first  place,  and  exi)lain  it  to  him.  I  explained  it 
all  to  them.  Thej'  did  so.  I  do  not  know  what  inquiry  the  President 
made  into  the  matter,  but  I  know  that  he  insisted  that  it  was  an  act 
of  injustice,  and  that  I  be  restored,  and  that  was  done.  Mr.  Ramsay,  the 
gentleman  who  was  put  into  my  place,  was,  1  think,  in  but  three  weeks. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  What  Ramsay  was  that! — A.  A  gentleman  of  character  tlown 
there  in  that  country — one  of  our  leading  men. 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Mr.  Ramsay  was  put  out  and  you  put  back? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I 
asked  the  Commissioner,  Mr.  Douglass,  this  morning  when  I  met  him 
in  the  Ebbitt  House,  why  he  objected  to  my  restoration,  and  he  said 
his  recollection  was  that  it  was  because  I  did  not  give  personal  attention 
to  the  business. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  W^as  Mr.  Ramsay  confirmed"? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  confirmed  and  the 
oflQce  transferred,  but  the  President  looked  upon  it  a^  such  an  act  of 
injustice  that  I  was  placed  back  there  and  got  possession  of  the  office  in 
three  weeks ;  the  only  case  of  the  kind  in  the  history  of  the  revenue 
service. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Several  witnesses  have  stated  here  that  yon  drew  nothing  on  the 
Kestler  vouchers;  that  is,  that  they  were  disallowed,  and  I  believe  it  so 
appears  upon  the  record ;  will  you  state,  yourself,  whether  you  were  ever 
paid  on  those  Kestler  vouchers  ? — A.  The  acconnts  were  put  in  in  advance ; 
I  mean  the  money  is  paid  first  on  an  allowance  to  the  collector,  and  the 
account  was  adjnsted  afterwards.  These  adjustments  were  made  in 
accordance  as  I  understand  with  an  amended  account  which  they  re 
qnired  me  to  majie  after  my  attention  to  the  matter  had  been  called  in 
the  acconnting  office. 


360  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  You  were  required  by  the  accounting  officers,  after  it  liad  got  into 
tlieir  hands,  to  put  in  amended  voucliers  for  the  true  persons  who  had 
rendered  the  service  ? — A.  I  was  called  upon  for  an  amended  account 
or  statement,  and  was  required  to  put  in  vouchers  tor  the  true  amounts. 

Q.  And  in  the  name  of  the  true  persons  who  did  render  the  service  'i 
— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Mr.  Walker  and  others?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  i)ut  them  in  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  i)ut  them  i)i. 

Q.  And  your  account  was  based  upon  those  vouchers,  and  not  upon 
the  Kestler  vouchers? — A.  I  supi)Ose  so;  that  was  the  last  of  it. 

Q.  Was  there  any  more  trouble  after  that? — A.  ISo,  sir;  those  accounts 
went  in  about  the  time  of  that  amended  abstract  there,  in  1874.  They 
went  in  at  that  time  just  as  fast  as  I  could  get  them.  I  was  called  upon 
1()  get  them,  but  of  course  it  took  some  time  to  get  the  amended  accounts 
IVom  these  men,  and  Mr.  Walker  was  in  the  West — in  Illinois,  I  do  not 
remember  what  part. 

Q.  Be  had  gone  away  in  the  mean  time? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  had  gone 
away  some  time  previous  to  that. 

Q.  Have  you  anything  else  to  say  on  that  Kestler  matter? — A.  It 
does  not  occur  to  me  to  say  anything  else  about  it  now. 

Q.  I  will  call  your  attention  to  the  matter  of  assessments. 

By  Senator  Mitchell: 

Q.  Have  you  seen  these  abstracts  that  were  presented  at  the  office — 
the  ones  you  have  alluded  to  in  your  testimony? — A.  The  original 
vouchers  ? 

Q.  Those  that  have  been  produced. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  the  testimony  you  have  given  relates  to  them.  You  have 
<xamined  then  the  writing  where  your  name  appears,  I  understood  you 
to  say? — A.  It  is  not  my  handwriting  on  those  originals. 

Q.  In  whose  handwriting  is  it? — A.  All  the  handwriting  of  Mr. 
Chirke,  according  to  my  knowledge  of  his  handwriting. 

Q.  You  speak  now  of  the  original  abstracts  ? — A.  The  original  ab- 
stracts. 

Q.  But  the  amended  ones  are  genuine? — A.  Yes,  sir;  they  are.  I 
wiis  required  to  nnike  an  amended  account.  I  made  them  out  myself, 
and  signed  those  and  sent  them  oft. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 
Q.  Will  you  make  any  ex])lanation  in  regard  to  this  assessment  for 
office  e.\i>enses  that  we  have  been  talking  about? — A.  The  office  assess- 
ment was  nuule  alter  our  having  had  to  ])ay  a  good  deal  i)ei'sonally  from 
time  to  tin)e  in  one  way  and  another  for  printing,  to  a  messenger  in  the 
(•nice,  and  for  check  l)ooks.  I  had  fnrnished  the  check  book  for  a  long 
time.  i)ut,  as  the  business  iiua-eased,  it  became  more  expensive,  and 
linally,  along  about  tiie  time  of  the  assessment,  or  the  year  ])reviously, 
1  had  to  i>ay  .'r'L*.")  ajticce  lor  the  cluH'k  books;  the  bank  wouUl  not  fur- 
nish them,  and  wf  talked  about  it  at  theollice;  the  office  men  had  been 
ic(|uii('(l  to  i)ay  on  t  hcse  other  matters,  the  messenger  and  other  e>cpense8 
tliat  liail  not  been  alIow«'d  by  the  government,  ^fliis  messenger  was 
Kept  tluic  Ibr  the  benefit  of  the  storekeepers.  lie  kept  their  blanks, 
and  lia<l  charge  of  tlieir  rcpoits  as  they  came  into  the  office,  and  dis- 
tributed Ihcni  about  to  the  )»roj)er  desks,  and  looked  really  alter  the 
busiucss  (tf  the  storekeepers.  Those  e.\]»enses  went  on  until  there  was 
some  dissatisl'a<ti(»n  with  them,  and  we  agr<'ed — I  agreed  to  send  out 
that  circular,  wliich  lias  appealed  here  in  the  evidence,  assessing  each 
oIlictT  a  dollar  a  iiioiith  for  th(»se  expenses. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  3G1 

Q.  Your  object  was  to  e<]nalize  it  upon  other  officers  besides  those 
men  around  your  office  ! — A.  Yes,  sir.  That  request  in  tlie  circular  Mas 
C()ini»lied  witli  by  some  of  the  oflicers,  and  a  fund  gradually  acenmulated 
there.  It  ainounted,  as  ^Ir.  liaum  said  yesterday,  to  about  i^iiH).  That 
was  about  the  anu)nnt  collected  from  the  tirst  to  the  last  during'  that 
l)erio<l.  A  great  many  of  the  ofhcers  did  not  i)ay  anything,  but  we  did 
not  say  anything  more  to  them  about  it,  because  w  <•  liad  the  necessary 
amount  for  that  ])ur|)ose.  ^\.n<J  no  one  was  excr  called  on  again.  These 
expenses  were  paid  out  of  this  fund  fiom  time  to  time.  At  the  end  of 
the  tisca!  yeai',  and  when  complaint  was  made  about  the  matter,  the 
Commissioner  directed  that  this  messenger  be  paid  by  the  government. 

Q.  iJefore  that  time  the  government  made  you  no  allowance  for  these 
exi)enses  ? — A.  No,  sir;  we  had  no  call  then  for  any  further  assess- 
ments. These  little  expenses,  of  i)rinting  and  so  on,  and  the  little  ma- 
chine that  we  had  to  buy,  a  lithographing  machine,  froni  which  we 
used  to  issue  circular  letters  to  the  officers,  as  we  could  not  write  to  all 
of  them,  and  some  money  was  spent  for  that  purj^ose.  The  office  ex- 
l)enses  ran  along  from  time  to  time,  except  the  messenger,  and  we  used, 
I  believe,  almost  all  of  the  fund  to  pay  up  so  iie  of  those  expenses  of 
the  office. 

Q.  Was  the  $iOO  honestly  paid  for  the  puri)0ses  for  which  it  w^as  re- 
ceived ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  want  to  ask  you  whether  you  ever  adopted  any  active  measures 
to  force  your  deputies  to  pay  this  office  assessment? — A.  Xo,  sir;  all  I 
ever  said  was  in  that  circular  letter;  I  never  did  call  upon  them  or  say 
another  word.  Some  money  was  sent  in  for  the  i)urpose  for  which  the 
assessments  were  made.  The  matter  stopped  right  there  and  never 
anything  more  was  said  about  it.  I  thought,  at  the  time,  that  my  chief 
deputy  kept  that  account,  and  so  told  Mr.  Brooks  when  he  called  my 
attention  to  it  at  (Ireensboro.  I  was  going  somewhere  just  then;  he 
wanted  me  to  return  to  the  office ;  I  told  him  no,  that  he  could  go  and  see 
Mr.  Coite,  and  he  would  tind  it  was  all  right ;  1  explained  to  him  what  it 
was  about,  and  went  on  and  did  not  return  to  the  office  with  him.  lie 
went  himself,  and  found  the  account  was  in  the  hands  of  Mr.  Dwire,  and 
the  account  not  made  up.  He  seemed  to  have  some  susi)icion,  as  these 
revenue  agents  usually  do,  that  because  the  account  was  not  ready  there 
was  something  wrong  about  it,  regarding  those  memoranda  which  were 
droi)ped  into  the  envelope  from  time  to  time.  He  went  up  to  Asheviile 
and  said  he  would  call  again;  when  he  called  again  1  was  still  absent 
from  the  office,  and  he  reported  that  the  account  was  not  kept  in  a 
manner  satisfactory  to  him;  and,  in  pursuance  of  his  rei)ort,  the  Com- 
missioner wrote  out  to  these  men  asking  them  what  tliey  had  paid; 
and  these  answers  are  here  on  file.  I  would  like  for  them  to  go  into 
this  evidence;  I  think  they  are  important,  as  there  has  been  a  good  deal 
said  about  it,  and  it  will  appear  from  them  just  how  it  is. 

Mr.  Pool.  I  shall  offer  them  all,  together  with  the  letters  in  response 
to  the  Commissioner  in  regard  to  your  indebtedness  to  the  officers. 

The  Witness.  They  all  ought  to  go  in.  There  was  no  secrecy  about 
the  matter;  it  was  patent  every  wbei'e;  the  letter  went  out  to  e\erybody, 
Democrats,  llepublicans,  and  all  who  were  in  office. 

Q.  Make  any  explanation  you  choose  about  the  political  assessments 
that  have  been  mentioned  here  so  much. — A.  The  political  assessments 
were  made  in  1880  in  that  district  in  a  way  that  had  never  been  made 
before  in  the  State.  Heretofore,  in  North  Carolina,  tiie  Kepublicans 
carried  the  State  up  to  187G,  when  we  lost  it.  TTp  to  that  time  and  dur- 
ing tlie  year  1S7G  money  had  been  furnished  to  the  State  of  North  Caro- 


362  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

liua  by  tlie  national  and  Cungresisional  executive  coniuiittees  to  defray 
the  expenses  of  campaigns  in  the  State,  and  tliere  was  no  regular  sys- 
tem of  assessments  in  the  State.  The  most  of  the  assessments  in  the 
State  up  to  that  time  came  from  these  committees  here,  the  national 
committee  and  the  Congressional  committee.  In  the  spring  of  1880  a 
good  many  of  my  friends  in  North  Carolina  wrote  to  me  and  talked  to 
me  about  it,  and  as  a  result  of  that  talk  and  conference,  I  consented  to 
act  as  chairman  of  the  executive  committee  of  the  State,  and  as  things 
went  along  I  found  out  that  we  would  not  get  any  money  from  the  na- 
tional Kepublican  committee  or  the  Congressional  committee;  that  they 
looked  upon  it  as  a  matter  of  impossibility  to  carry  Xorth  Carolina,  and 
they  did  not  like  to  spend  any  money  there.  That  was  the  feeling,  as 
I  understood  it  here,  from  the  chairman  of  the  executive  committee  at 
the  time,  Mr.  Keogh. 

Q.  You  mean  Mr.  Keogh  was  clerk  of  the  national  committee? — A. 
He  was  chairman  of  the  executive  committee  of  our  State  at  that  time. 
He  was  so  well  satistied  that  we  were  not  going  to  get  any  money,  that 
he  would  not  agree  to  act  any  longer  as  chairman  of  the  executive  com- 
mittee. Well,  in  talking  with  our  people  tlirough  that  district,  I  men- 
tioned the  matter  from  time  to  time  as  1  would  see  friends  about  through 
the  district.  I  told  them  that  if  it  was  desired  that  I  shouhl  act  as 
chairman  of  the  executive  committee,  I  could  not  consent  unless  I  had 
funds,  and  would  not  be'placed  there  as  a  mere  tigurehead  without  any 
help.  I  found  out  that  the  general  inclination  of  the  officers  in  that 
district  was  to  make  a  fight  for  the  State.  I  had  confidence  that  there 
could  be  such  a  figiit  made  in  the  State  as  would  put  us  in  a  position 
to  get  help  and  assistance  and  have  the  confidence  of  the  party  in  the 
North  in  future  contests.  I  felt  that  that  could  be  done,  and,  gener- 
ally, we  agreed  upon  it.  This  assistance  was  generally  acceded  to  and 
agreed  upon  as  the  summer  went  on,  and  the  meeting  of  the  executive 
committee  was  held.  I  think  it  is  right  that  1  should  make  this  expla- 
nation and  go  on  and  sliow  how  this  matter  came  about. 

Q.  Certainly. — A.  The  meeting  of  the  executive  committee  was  held. 
I  found  that  Mr.  Keogh  was  very  much  opposed  to  my  acting  as  chair- 
man of  the  committee  when  we  got  to  Kaleigh,  and  I  decided  not  to 
do  so,  as  he  was  so  much  opposed  to  it.  After  a  conference  with  Mr. 
Keogh,  1  told  him  that  as  it  was  objectionable  to  him  I  would  not  act, 
but  would  like  to  have  his  help,  and  did  not  care  anything  about  the 
place ;  tha*  it  was  being  forced  upon  me  by  some  of  our  political  Irieiuls; 
that  I  was  willing  to  act  if  there  was  no  objection.  As  the  result  of 
that  talk  with  IMr.  Jveogh  I  decided  not  to  a<'t  as  chairman  of  the  com- 
mittee, and  Mr.  Coojter  was  made  chairman  of  it.  After  that  arrange- 
ment a  cami)aign  committee  was  formed  in  the  State  by  this  executive 
committee,  and  1  was  made  cliairman  of  the  (;ainj)aign  executive  com- 
mittee. Tli<;  canvass  went  on,  with  Mr.  Cooper's  hea<l<iuarters  at  Jla- 
leigh.  I  acted  as  chairman  of  the  committee  and  ran  the  campaign — 
I  mean  as  (;haii'man  of  tlie,cam]iaign  (;ommittee.  1  looked  after  it  in 
tin;  western  counti<'s.  The  State  was  divided  between  us,  and  these 
assessments  were  made  in  a(;coi(lance  with  that  i)lan. 

Q.  Do  you  recolh'ct  what  was  raised  by  that  assessment  in  your  (lis 
trict? — A.  I  do  not  re(;ollect  precisely  tin;  amount;  some  of  it  was  sent 
directly  to  the  committee  at  Ikaleigh,  and  some  of  it  was  collected  by  mo 
and  sent  to  the  c(»mmitte('.      I    think  it  was  somewhere  in  the  neighbor- 
IkmmI  (»f  alM»ut  Ml  1,000. 

(}.  AV;is  it  ap])li('d  in  that  way  1' — A.   Ves,  sir. 

(,K   l"or  camjtaign  purposes  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    XOKTII    CAUOLINA.  3G3 

Q.  TToiiestly  applied  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(,).  Did  von  mideitake  to  force  vonr  siiliordiuatt's  to  pav  it  ? — A.  Not 
at  all. 

Q.  Did  you  write  a  eireuhir  letter  to  your  fiubordiiiates  altoiit  it  .' — 
A.  I  wrote  a  letter  to  the  subordinates,  and  ex]>ressed  myself  to  every 
one  of  tlieni  saying;',  I  think — that  is  my  recollection  of  it — that  they 
were  not  recfuired  to  iiay  ;  that  the  committee  did  not  want  it  unless  it 
Avas  paid  willingly.  I  wanted  tliem  to  understand  that,  and  so  expressed 
it  in  the  letter,  and  that  if  they  did  not  accede  to  it  that  in  no  sense 
wouhl  their  standing  be  interfered  with  by  their  refusal,  either  at  my 
oftice  or  at  the  department. 

Q-  So  you  left  it  entirely  oi)tional  with  them  to  ])ay  it  or  not  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir.  I  want  to  state  further  in  connection  with  chese  assessments 
in  this  State  and  the  amount  that  was  raised,  that  the  amount  that  had 
been  expended  in  North  Carolina  generally  to  make  a  campaign  there, 
under  the  disadvantages  the  Republicans  have  to  contend  with  in  that 
State — that  the  amount  necessary  for  those  puri)Oses  was  about  >'-r»,()00. 
It  takes  about  that  to  make  an  ordinary  cami)aign,  in  the  way  that  it 
had  been  conducted  in  that  State;  and  in  making  these  assessments  1 
was  governed  by  the  amount  that  I  thought  necessary  to  make  that 
campaign. 

Q.  Passing  from  that  subject,  I  will  call  your  attention  to  these  re- 
ports about  storekeepers  dividing  their  pay  with  distillery.  Did  you 
make  efforts  to  find  out  any  case  of  that  kind  l — A.  Oh,  yes  ;  it  was  a 
matter  of  solicitude  to  me  there  on  account  of  the  reports,  rumors,  and 
slanders  which  cropjied  up  from  time  to  time  with  regard  to  it,  and  on 
that  account  I  tried  to  conduct  matters  so  as  to  give  no  ground  for  such 
rumors  and  complaints.  I  had  frequent  talks  with  the  Commissioner  of 
Internal  Eevenue  about  it,  and  tried  to  arrange  matters  in  the  district 
so  as  to  avoid  any  sus])icion  on  the  part  of  the  public,  or  of  any  one,  in 
regard  to  the  matter, 

Q.  Did  you  try  to  fiiul  out  a  case? — A.  Y'es,  we  tried  to  find  it  out 
fre(piently. 

Q.  Was  it  your  purpose  to  i)rosecute  the  matter  if  you  found  out  a 
case? — A.  Oh,  yes,  sir;  we  would  have  prosecuted  it  if  we  had  known 
it.  I  never  found  any  one.  I  never  could  get  any  evidence  of  it  that 
could  be  depended  upon.  There  were  some  causes  that  ])robably  gave 
rise  to  those  suspicions  at  the  start.  For  instance,  these  distillers  would 
come  and  ask  for  storekeepers,  and  would  not  want  to  run  without  cer- 
tain storekeepers;  at  least  object  to  some  that  were  sent  to  them.  We 
attributed  it  to  that  more  than  anything  else.  The  disposition  on  the 
part  of  the  distiller  to  have  some  one  on  his  premises  who  would  look 
after  his  affairs  there,  in  that  country,  and  with  whom  he  was  acquainted ; 
a  triend  whom  he  thought  would  be  disposed  to  see  and  feel  that  liis 
business  was  being  of  value  to  him. 

Q.  Do  these  storekeepers  help  the  distillers,  who  are  generally  igno- 
rant men,  to  nmke  up  their  returns  and  things  of  that  sort? — A.  Y'es, 
sir;  not  only  that,  but  watch  the  hands  about  the  distillery,  and  give 
orders  probably  about  what  should  be  done,  and  looked  after  the  work, 
that  it  was  done  eftectively.  Most  of  the  distillers  are  farmers,  and  are 
not  usually  at  the  distilleries. 

Q.  It  is  the  business  of  a  storekeeper  to  be  there  all  the  time? — A. 
Y^es,  sir;  a  storekeeper  has  to  be  there  all  the  time  in  their  business. 
These  farmers  who  are  distillers  like  to  ha^e  these  storekeepers  take 
an  interest  in  their  matters,  and  see  that  the  work  went  on  right,  and 
look  after  their  stock  about  the  distillery;  that  it  is  attended  to  by  the 


364  COLLECTION    OF    IXTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

liauds  i)roi)erly ;  aud  that  the  distillery  was  in  every  way  operated  with 
advaiitafje  to  the  distiller.  Every  distiller  naturally  was  inclined  to 
have  some  man  witli  whom  he  was  acquainted,  and  who  he  knew  was 
not  lazy.  I  attribute  the  desire  of  the  distillers  to  have  certain  store- 
keepers more  to  that  than  to  any  other  cause.  I  know  that  many  storc- 
kee]iers  were  accused  of  dividing  their  i)ay  who  I  am  satisfied  did  not 
do  it.  Whenever  a  storekeeper  was  appointed  in  the  <listrict  I  made  it 
a  point  to  allude  to  that  matter,  and  warned  him  against  i)utting  him- 
self into  the  hands  of  a  distiller  by  telling  him  it  was  dangerous  to  allow 
himself  to  get  into  the  hands  of  anybody  in  regard  to  such  things;  and 
more  than  that,  I  told  him  that  the  distillers  in  that  country  would  run 
their  distilleries  in  any  event;  that  if  certain  men  had  corn  to  be  dis- 
tilled it  would  be  done,  aud  the  storekeepers  did  not  need  to  divide 
their  jniy ;  whether  they  did  or  not  the  distillery  would  go  on.  It  is  an  old 
distilling  section.  It  has  been  a  moneyed  interest  in  that  country  for  gen- 
erations. The  wbisky  would  be  made  in  any  event.  This  is  my  opinion 
about  it.  Unless  there  was  some  regular  system  of  division  running  all 
through,  1  do  not  think  that  there  could  have  been  any  great  amount 
of  it.  A  great  many  of  the  ofticers  I  know  did  not  do  it,  for  the  reason 
that  thev  knew  they  would  get  work  an.\'  way.  Many  of  the  men  there 
api)ointed  did  not  have  any  other  Ijusiuess.  When  a  man  has  taken  one 
of  these  ])<)sitions  it  was  generally  for  a  lifetime.  When  he  went  into 
the  revenue  service  at  all  there  was  very  little  prospect  of  employment 
in  any  other  business  afterwards — he  found  it  difficult  to  get  employment. 

Q.  Your  object  was  to  convince  the  storekeeper  and  ganger  that  he 
would  have  no  interest  in  the  world  in  making  a  division  with  the  dis- 
tdler,  and  would  not  suffer  if  he  refused  to  comply  with  any  demand  the 
distiller  nnule  ui)on  him  to  di\ide  his  pay? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  tried  to  im- 
press that  upon  them,  and  I  have  heard  of  rumors  against  them,  but  I 
am  satisfied  many  did  not  do  it,  for  the  very  reason  I  mention  ;  that  they 
had  been  in  the  business  a  long  time,  and  good  officers  were  popular,  and 
knew  they  could  get  work  if  there  was  any  work  to  do;  consequently 
there  was  no  call  for  dividing  their  pay,  and  if  the  system  had  gone  to 
jiny  extent  at  ail,  it  would  necessarily  have  been  a  general  one. 

(^.  You  know  of  no  instance  positively  where  you  could  i»rove  that  it 
ha<l  occurred? — A.  No,  sir;  I  know  of  none. 

Q.  You  are  sure  that  that  report  was  false  in  regard  to  a  great  num- 
ber of  officers,  ami  do  you  believe  it  to  be  true  with  reganl  to  any  of 
lliem? — A.  I  do  not  know;  I  had  some  suspicion  of  some  of  them,  but 
never  could  get  any  evidence,  and  none  ever  were  removed  on  that 
account. 

Tlie  committee  adjounied  until  10  a.  m.  .lul\'  1."). 


\\'A.slIl^•(;  ION,  I).  C,  kSularday^  Jiili/  15,  1882. 

The  eoiiiiiiittee  met  at  10  o'clocic  a.  lu.  J.  J.  ]\Iott's  examination  re- 
sumed. 

i;\   Ml'.  I'ooL: 

(^>ue>ti()M.  Soiiiel  iiing  has  beeu  slated  iu  regard  to  the  treatment  of 
the  ollieers  in  the  l''ed«'ral  eouits,  when  theic  were  i)rose(;utions  ibr  vio- 
lafi(»ns  of  the  law,  an<l  t(>  an  ordtM'  that  you  issued  iu  conscKpumee,  ami 
the  action  of  t  lie  ( 'ommissionei'  upon  it;  ]>lease  state  what  that  was. — 
Answer.   At    the  court,  I   think  it  was  last  ( )ctol>er,  1  had  understood 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  365 

that  certain  lawyers  had  denounced  some  of  the  officers  who  were  there 
as  witnesses,  in  very  severe  teiins,  and  in  a  way  that  I  thought  was  un- 
warranted, in  fact,  outrageous.  I  thought  about  it,  and  conchided  that 
if  they  were  to  be  treated  in  that  way,  I  would  try  to  avoid  tlu'ir  appear- 
ing in  that  court.  It  had  a  bad  effect,  and  was  cak^ulated  to  <h)  in- 
jury to  the  service.  It  was  an  insult  to  the  otliccrs,  not  only  to  one,  but 
to  all  of  theni,  so  I  concluded  that  I  would  issuii  an  orih'r  instructing 
them  not  to  swear  out  any  more  warrants.  At  the  same  time  that  I  did 
this,  I  instructed  them  to  go  on  with  their  work  as  deputies  in  the  regu- 
lar Avay,  to  prevent  illicit  distilling,  and  seize  anything  in  the  way  <»f 
illicit  whisky  or  tobacco  that  they  might  run  across,  knowing  that  legal 
processes,  indictments,  and  so  on,  could  come  at  some  future  time.  I 
forget  the  time  that  the  statute  allows,  but  it  is  several  years,  Mithin 
which  persons  who  violate  the  law  can  be  indicted.  I  came  on  to  \\'ash- 
ington  shortl,y  after  that,  and  had  a  talk  with  the  Commissioner  of  In- 
ternal Revenue  about  the  matter;  and  after  that  received  a  letter  from 
him  stating  that  he  did  not  thiidi:  it  was  proper,  and  so  on,  to  have  such 
an  order  enforced,  and  asked  that  it  jnight  be  revoked.  He  went  on  to 
state  in  the  letter,  that  if  I  had  any  cases  where  my  officers  would  have 
to  appear  in  that  court,  that  he  would  direct  the  district  attorney  to 
transfer  them  to  the  circuit  court.  There  was  a  good  deal  of  comment 
about  the  town  and  among  those  around  the  court,  over  the  matter.  It 
was  looked  ui)on  as  high  handed,  and  I  do  not  think  the  judge  ought  to 
have  allowed  it.  I  revoked  the  order,  and  the  business  went  on  as  l)e- 
fore. 

Q.  Your  order  was  not  to  the  extent  of  forbidding  your  ofticers  to 
break  up  trattic  in  tobacco  or  whisky  that  were  not  properly  paid  for? — 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  It  was  simply  not  to  swear  out  warrants,  for  the  offenses — not  to 
commence  prosecutions? — A.  Yes,  sir;  not  to  commence  prosecutions 
which  would  bring  them  into  court  and  put  them  into  the  hands  of  these 
men  who  were  traducing  and  slandering  them. 

Q.  Because  that  could  have  been  done  at  any  future  time  within  the 
three  years  allowed  by  the  statute  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  there  anything  further  you  want  to  state  on  that  subject  ? — A. 
I  do  not  think  of  anything. 

Q.  State  whatever  you  have  to  say  in  regard  to  that  matter  of  Mr. 
Eamsey  about  which  he  has  testified,  and  which  has  been  made  a  great 
point  of  in  this  investigation. — A.  Eamsey  testified  that  I  made  a  con- 
tract with  him  with  regard  to  his  pay  or  employment  as  a  deputy  ;  that 
I  had  a  private  arrangement  with  him  with  regard  to  it.  That  was  not 
so.  I  had  no  private  arrangement  with  Eamsey.  He  was  appointed  to 
do  a  certain  duty  about  through  the  district,  collecting  money  in  the 
greater  i>ortion  of  it;  and  besides  that,  the  little  stills  were  increasing, 
and  he  drew  the  plans  of  those  distilleries,  and  was  allowed  to  receive 
pay  from  the  distillers  for  those  i)lans  in  addition  to  the  amount  that 
the  government  allowed  him.  as  dei^uty.  I  was  receiving  about  in  the 
neigiiborhood  of  $3,000  a  year  salary  myself,  and  I  would  hardly  make 
any  contract  with  a  deputy  to  pay  him  over  and  al)ove  any  amount  that 
the  government  would  allow.  We  could  have  got  plenty  of  men  all 
through  the  country  to  have  taken  Eamsey's  position  at  the  salary  that 
he  was  paid  bj^  the  government. 

Q.  His  allowance  from  June  30,  1S72,  up  to  May  20,  1873,  was  $100  a 
month  from  the  government? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  from  May  20,  1873,  to  June  30, 1873,  at  $125  a  month  ?— A.  I 
think  so. 


366  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  He  claims  tliat  you  ought  to  Lave  paid  bim  $150  during  the  whole 
time? — A.  I  do  not  remember  what  he  claims  in  his  answer  to  my  com- 
plaint in  the  suit  that  we  have.  I  do  not  remember  what  amount  it  is, 
but,  as  I  remember,  he  claimed  for  a  portion  of  the  time  $50  a  month, 
or  that  I  agreed  to  pay  him  fifty  per  cent.,  as  he  states,  of  his  salary. 

Q.  This  would  increase  it  by  fifty  per  cent.  I — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  made  no  such  agreement  with  liim? — A.  No;  I  made  no  such 
agreement  with  him.     I  found  out  that  IJamsey  was  behind  on  his  list. 

Q.  What  do  you  mean  by  that? — A.  That  he  had  collected  more  than 
his  salary  amounted  to,  and  he  was  dismissed. 

Q.  You  mean,  he  had  collected,  and  not  paid  over,  more  than  his 
salary  amounted  to — retaining  more  than  his  salary  amounted  to  f — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  He  was  dismissed,  and  then  what? — A.  I  sent  a  gentleman,  Mr. 
Horah,  to  make  a  settlement  with  him,  and  Mr.  Horah  drew  up  a  settle- 
ment of  account  according  to  the  data  I  had  furnished  him,  and  Mr. 
llamsey  acknowledged  to  Horah — he  told  me  ou  his  return — the  indebt- 
edness, and  that  he  would  pay  it  as  soon  as  he  got  some  moiety  dues  that 
were  owed  to  him  at  the  department. 

Q.  That  is  what  Mr.  Horah  told  you? — A.  He  did.  I  waited  on  him 
for  several  months.  I  do  not  remember  how  long,  and  sued  him,  and 
he  then  brought  in  this  action  on  the  vouchers,  as  I  understood,  as  a 
counter-claim.  I  think  that  was  all  an  afterthought  on  his  part,  after 
consultatiou  with  his  counsel. 

Q.  You  sent  in  his  vouchers  for  a  hundred  and  fifty  dollars  a  month  ! — 
A.  The  original  vouchers,  yes,  sir;  they  were  sent  in  for  that. 

Q.  By  Mr.  Clarke  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  the  government  refused  to  allow  any  more  thau  the  regular 
allowance  made  on  the  30th  of  June  preceding,  and  he  brought  in  as  au 
offset  in  tlie  suit,  the  balance  between  what  the  government  allowed, 
and  what  he  claimed  you  agreed  to  pay  him  ? — A.  That  is  what  I  under- 
stood at  the  time. 

(}.  And  that  is  the  matter  between  you? — A.  Yes,  sir;  and  afterwards 
in  evidence  he  makes  this  statement  that  he  made  here,  that  I  was  to 
give  him  50  per  cent,  of  the  amount  he  received  as  salary. 

(}.  That  is,  you  were  to  give  him  a  $150  a  month  instead  of  a  $100  a 
month?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  nothing  further  to  state  on  that  subject?  I  will  be  glad 
if  you  will  exi»lain  some  of  the  troubles  in  your  way  of  executing  the 
law  and  Mdministcring  the  collection  of  internal  revenue  in  that  district, 
resulting  frcun  ])oIiti(;al  action — the.  action  of  the  opposite  party? — A. 
The  ])urpos«'of  the  Democratic  ]»iuty,  as  I  understoo<l  it  and  felt  it,  was 
to  make  capital  by  traduction  ol'  the  revenue  laws  and  ollicers.  This 
was  (lone  by  the  ])ul)li<;  spcakci's  aiul  ni^wspapers  throughout  the  State. 
That  sNstcm  of  abuse  and  traduction  grew,  and  was  taken  up  from  the 
«j)(;akers  and  the  ])ress  by  the  populace. 

Q.  You  say  the  jtopulace  took  it  u[)  from  the  newspapers  and  speak- 
ers?— A.  Yes,  sir;  and  1  think  that  the  great  mass  of  rumors,  and 
slandeis.  and  all  that,  lias  gi'(>wn  out  of  that.  1(  had  become  a  sort  of 
licensed  system  of  abus(^  in  the  community  and  country  around  there. 

Q,  Was  that  an  obstruction  to  tiie  ])roper  ))erl'oiiuance  of  duty  by 
your  subordinates? — A.  Oii,  ncs,  sir;  it  sul)jecled  the  ollicers  to  insult 
and  suspicion,  and  incensed  those  who  were  engaged  in  illicit  distilling, 
and  encouraged  tliciu  to  stiiiid  out  against  the  law,  and  logo  on  in  the 
lace  (»r  the  law. 

<^>    ( i  i\  (•  t  liciii  an  inipi  fssioii  that  t  he  c<iiniiiuiiity  was  at  their  back  ? — 


THK    SlX'l'lI    DISTRICT    OV    XOKTII     CAROLINA.  3G7 

A.   Vcs,  sir;  the  illicit  distiller.s  Celt  tliiit  they  liad  the  s.viiii)atliy  of  the* 
coinmmiity  as  a  <;eiu'ial  thing. 

Q.  Did  you  adopt  the  systcMii  of  appointing  some  Democrats  to  office 
about  in  that  district  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  that  system  of  abuse  went  on  tliere, 
iind  it  became  so  diflicult  that  I  conceived  the  idea  of  shifting  the  re- 
sponsibility, or  the  api)areiit  responsibility,  of  the  execution  of  the  law, 
and  went  to  work  and  api)ointed  some  Democrats  about  through  the 
district,  wherever  J  could  find  a  inan  of  charactei-  whom  1  had  reason 
to  believe  would  take  a  position.  I  gave  it  out  that  I  would  pursue 
that  course,  and  as  a  consequence  I  heard  from  first  cue  then  another 
through  the  districjt  asking  for  places. 

Q.  You  mean  Democrats? — A.  Yes,  sir;  there  was  a  great  number 
of  them  api)lied,  and  1  Avonld  select  such  of  them  as  I  thought  would 
give  force  and  character  to  the  service.     I  a[)poiHted  a  good  many. 

Q.  Did  that  seem  to  ])roduce  any  good  eifect  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  it  had  an 
immediate  effect  ui)on  the  country.  A  good  many  people  had  been  led 
to  believe  that  nobody  but  a  Kepublican  would  be  allowed  to  hold  ])laces 
of  that  sort,  aud  only  Republicans  wouUl  be  used  to  execute  the  laws. 
I  felt  there  was  some  force  in  this  talk  of  the  ]>oliticians,  that  it  ought 
not  to  be  a  party  matter,  and  that  laws  of  that  kind  ought  to  be  enforced 
by  the  members  of  both  parties.  There  was  a  feeling  of  that  sort  among 
the  ordinary  class  of  good  peoi)le  in  the  Democratic  party,  and  I  felt 
there  was  some  force  in  that  kind  of  argument,  and  that  was  the  reason 
Avhy  I  was  driven  to  that  course,  and  i)ursued  it. 

Q.  It  had  a  good  effect? — A.  Yes,  sir;  it  relieved  that  feeling  among 
the  ordinary  class  of  people  1  speak  of,  and  in  that  way  had  a  good  effect. 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  that  one  of  the  charges  made  by  the  newspai)ers 
ixnd  stum[)  speakers  was  that  poor  men  could  not  ])ut  up  stills,  because 
it  recjuired  too  large  a  bond — the  required  capacity  being  so  high.  Was 
that  one  of  the  charges  against  the  revenue  system? — A.  Y^es,  sir;  that 
was  one  of  the  charges. 

Q.  Well,  what  was  done? — /\.  I  had  some  consultation  with  the  Com- 
missioner of  Internal  Revenue,  and  it  was  agreed  that  the  capacity  of 
stills  should  be  lowered. 

Q.  W  hat  was  the  required  capacity  before  this — the  minimum  capacity, 
I  mean  ? — A.  Six  bushels,  I  think. 

Q.  Then  it  was  reduced  to  three  bushels  as  the  minimum  ? — A..  About 
three  and  a  half;  but  asufticient  amount  to  pay  the  expenses  of  the  dis- 
tillery, so  that  the  government  might  not  lose  anything  by  its  heing 
operated. 

Q.  Did  that  result  in  a  great  increase  of  legal  distilleries,  and  in  a 
decrease  of  illegal  distilleries? — A.  Yes;  the  illegal  distillers  went  to 
work  and  put  up  legal  distilleries. 

Q.  Is  it  not  a  matter  of  fact  that  those  who  were  running  legal  dis- 
tilleries are  opposed  to  the  running  of  illicit  distilleries  around  there? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  it  interferes  with  their  business  by  putting  up  the  price  of 
grain,  aud  then  it  gives  the  illicit  distiller  the  advantage  in  not  paying- 
taxes. 

Q.  So  that  the  distiller  is  a  sort  of  police  in  the  neighborhood  against 
illegal  ones  ? — A.  Y"es ;  it  is  a  protection  against  illegal  ones, 

Q.  And  after  the  reduction  of  this  capacity  the  number  of  small  legal 
distilleries  increased,  and  you  found  the  illegal  distilleries  decreased  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Has  that  system  continued  till  now  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  it  has  obtained 
ii  great  deal  there,  and  worked  along  until  the  illicit  distilleries  are  pretty 
well  gone  out. 


db8  COLLFX'TION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    1in 

Q.  Does  there  seem  to  be  a  better  feeling  iu  the  community,  or  not  ? — 
A.  .Oh,  yes,  sir;  very  great,  from  what  there  was  several  years  ago. 
The  i)eoi)le  have  become  more  reconciled  to  the  law,  and  many  good 
people  have  engaged  iu  distilling  under  the  law.  They  have  become 
familiarized  with  the  operations  of  the  revenue  system  ;  and  through 
association  with  the  olticers  of  the  government  and  their  friends,  have 
come  to  understand  it  better,  and  it  has  had  a  good  effect. 

Q.  But  it  increased  the  expenses  of  the  district,  did  it  not? — A.  Yes; 
every  additional  officer  employed  makes  more  expense. 

Q.  The  percentage  has  been  greatly  increased — the  percentage  of  col- 
lections— has  it  not  ? — A.  It  was  increased  in  proportion ;  and  though 
increased  in  ]n^oportion,  the  revenue  has  also  increased  for  the  govern- 
ment. 

Q.  You  mean  the  Treasury  got  more  money  by  that  system  than  it  did 
by  the  former  one? — A.  Y"es,  sir;  while  it  sas'ed  i^rosecutions  in  the 
courts  and  expenses  in  that  way. 

Q.  A  good  deal  has  been  said  here  about  the  division  of  distilleries — 
a  distillery  of  six-bushel  capacity  into  two,  three  and  a  half  bushels; 
that  some  parties  took  advantage  of  this  reduction  to  divide  up  the  dis- 
tilleries which  they  were  running  before? — A.  Yes;  that  is  what  is 
termed  by  politcians  the  "  multiplication  of  stills." 

Q.  In  how  many  instances  did  that  occur  iu  the  sixth  district  ? — A.  I 
do  not  thiidv  there  were  very  many.  AYe  investigated  the  matter, 
looked  into  it.  and  found  that  the  distillers  gave  as  an  excuse  that  they 
could  not  oi»erate  the  stills  the  year  around  except  with  water  of  a  certain 
temperature,  and  that  they  had  to  put  their  distilleries  close  up  to  the 
heads  of  streams  with  a  view  to  continuing  the  business  through  the  hot 
summer  months.  I  know  that  was  the  case  with  "  Daniels's"  distilleries. 
There  was  a  complaint  at  the  office  and  at  the  department  over  the  num- 
ber of  stills  that  Daniels  had. 

Q.  You  mean  that  in  the  summer  time  the  lack  of  water  made  it  de- 
sirable to  a  distiller  to  have  two  stills,  one  higher  up  and  one  lower  down 
a  stream,  so  that  he  could  use  the  water  twice  ? — A.  He  could  use 
the  water  twice  in  some  respects.  I  am  not  very  familiar  with  the 
mode  of  distilling,  but  I  think  a  portion  of  the  water  that  is  used  has 
to  be  of  a  certain  temperature  to  make  a  good  "turnout"  of  spirits, 
a.s  they  call  it;  and  that  they  can  get  that  temperature  the  year  around 
iu  sutlicient  quantity  only  by  ha\ing  the  stills  near  the  head  of  the 
streams — near  tiie  fountain.  That  was  one  of  the  causes,  and  the  prin- 
cipal cause  in  the  Daniels  case,  because  it  was  the  purpose  of  the 
d<'l)artment  to  interfere  with  him,  and  we  found  out  we  could  not  do  it 
under  his  explanation.  The  agents  went  out  there  and  looked  into  it, 
cxainined  it,  and  that  was  tlu'  result.  Another  case  was  where  men 
running  distilleries,  being  jjoor,  could  not  give  Avarehousing  bonds. 
TIm'N'  could  get  more  good  se('urity  on  a  small  anu>unt  of  stock  than 
they  (;ould  get  on  the  consolidate*!  amount  of  two  distilleries. 

i).  That  is,  they  (onld  \i;i\('  two  small  bonds  easier  than  one  large 
one? — A.  Yes,  sii'. 

(}.  Those  bonds  had  to  be  gixcn  monthly,  had  they  not  '! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  Tiieie  was  an  excuse  gi\('ii  in  connection  with  the  stock  or  hogs 
that  tiiey  owned '/ — A.  \'es,  sir;  t  liey  conii)hiined  t  hat  I  he_\  ran  less  risk 
liy  di\  iding  Iheir  stock  u|>  at  two  distineries. 

(}.  ^  oil  mean  as  slo(d<,  cattle,  and  hogs? — A.  \'es;  hogs  are  atfected 
in  our  country  with  cholera.  'I'here  iias  been  a  gicat  deal  of  it  iu  the 
last  ten  years  tlicre.  It  l)real<s  ont  in  one  neighboihood  or  locality, 
often  in  one  licM,  when  another  neighboring  Held  woidd  not  be  atfected 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  369 

by  it;  and  tliey  ran  loss  iislv,tliey  tliought,  by  dividing  tLeir  liogs  up  in 
that  way. 

Q.  Tbey  divided  the  stills,  and  they  divided  the  stock  they  had  with 
it — sei)arate<I  them  f — A.  Yes,  sir.  Another  reason  was,  some  of  them 
had  ditterent  ])ieees  of  land;  one  in  one  locality,  ami  then  a  little  i)lace 
oft'  somewhere  else.  Their  stock  being  on  eacii  ])l;ice,  it  was  a  matfei-  of 
convenience,  so  that  tliey  conld  use  the  sloj)  of  the  separate  distilleries 
for  the  beneiit  of  both. 

Q.  IIow  many  cases  of  division  of  stills  occurred  in  the  district,  that 
you  know  of? — A.  I  do  not  remember.  I  know  there  were  Very  few 
of  those  cases  complained  of. 

Q.  More  than  three  or  fonr  ? — A.  I  do  not  remember  that  there  were 
more  than  three  or  four;  although  there  were  more  men  in  the  district 
than  three  or  four  that  had  as  high  as  two  distilleries. 

Q.  You  recollect  only  three  or  four  cases  of  diyisiou  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.^^Was  there  any  way  for  you  to  preyeut  a  man  from  dividing  his 
still  of  twelve  bushels  capacity,  for  instance,  into  three  g'tills  of  four 
bushels  each — any  way  under  the  law,  after  the  Commissioner  had  reduced 
the  capacity? — A.  Ko,  sir;  the  law  allowed  him  to  part  up  his  distillery, 
and  unless  we  knew  he  was  committing  fraud  we  had  no  right  to  sto]) 
him. 

Q.  Is  there  anything  farther  you  wish  to  state  upon  that  subject  ? — 
A.  I  do  not  think  of  anything  now. 

Q.  This  reduction  of  the  capacity  of  stills  was  by  order  of  the  Com- 
missioner of  Internal  Revenue,  was  it  not? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  will  be  glad  if  you  will  now  explain  the  duty  of  a  general  store- 
keeper as  distinguished  from  that  of  a  storekeeper. — A.  lie  is  assigned 
to  a  certain  territor\^,  and  all  suspended  distilleries  Avith  s^^irits  in  the 
warehouses  are  turned  over  to  him. 

Q.  To  the  general  storekeeper  ? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  What  was  his  duty? — A.  Whenever  a  tax  payer  wanted  to  pay 
taxes  on  any  spirits  to  withdraw  it;  it  was  the  duty  of  the  general  store- 
keeper to  go  out  and  withdraw  it  for  the  benefit  of  the  tax-i)ayer — the 
distiller. 

Q.  The  spirits  that  were  distilled  were  put  into  this  bonded  ware- 
liouse  without  the  tax  being  ]>aid  on  it,  aiul  if  it  was  withdrawn  from 
time  to  time,  as  the  distiller  wished  to  sell  or  use  it,  he  paid  the  taxes  on 
withdrawing  it  ? — A.  Y'es,  sii-. 

Q.  It  was  only  in  c.ises  of  the  suspension  of  distilling  operations  that 
the  warehouses  went  under  the  charge  of  the  general  storekeeper,  was 
it  ? — A .  When  the  storekeeper  was  there,  there  was  no  call  for  a  general 
storekeeper. 

Q.  The  storekeeper  staid  there  and  watched  while  the  liquor  was 
being  made? — A.  Yes;  he  withdrew  the  spirits  when  desired  Just  in  the 
way  the  general  storekeeper  did  after  the  distillery  suspended. 

Q.  The  general  storekeeper  came  in  after  suspension  f — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  The  regular  storekeeper  was  there  while  the  distillery  was  in  op- 
eration ? — A.  The  purpose  of  creating  the  office  of  general  storekeeper 
was  for  the  reason  that  it  was  less  expense  to  the  government. 

Q.  Because  the  general  storekeeper  could  have  a  good  many  distil- 
leries under  his  charge  at  the  same  time  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Mr.  Drake  was  a  general  storekeeper  residing  in  Statesville  ? — A. 
Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  Which  Mr.  Drake  was  it!— A.  E.  B.  Drake. 

Q.  What  aged  man  is  he  ? — A.  Mr.  Drake  is  now  sixty-eight  years 
ohl,  I  think  near  seventy. 
S.  Mis.  IIG 24 


370  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    RLVENUE    IN 

Q.  Has  he  been  a  great  while  iu  vStatesville  ? — A.  He  has  been  living 
there  about  thirty  years,  I  think. 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  that  he  has  been  editor  of  the  Statesville  Ameri- 
can for  about  twenty  or  thirty  years  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  he  a  man  of  high  character? — A.  Very  high  character. 

Q,  Did  he  discharge  properly  the  duties  of  a  general  storekee])er 
while  he  was  holding  the  office  ? — A.  I  understand  it  so.  No  complaint 
was  heard.  He  kept  a  horse  and  sulky  there  in  that  place.  He  went 
out  to  his  division  by  railroad,  but  used  this  horse  and  sulky  when  it 
was  more  convenient  to  go  by  ]»rivate  conveyance.  There  were  com- 
plaints, 1  understood,  about  the  town  there — I  supi)0se  on  the  jnirt  of 
somebody  that  wanted  his  place — that  he  delegated  his  work  to  others. 
I  do  not  think  that  that  was  the  case.  I  think  it  was  done  by  him  only 
because  he  could  not  visit  two  places  at  one  time.  When  an  order 
came  into  the  ofHce  for  the  withdawal  of  whisky,  and  tax-paid  stamps, 
he  could  not  go  to  both  places  at  once.  -^ 

Q.  Through  what  extent  of  country  did  his  division  extend  ? — A.  I 
do  not  remember  his  division  ;  I  think,  though,  it  was  the  eastern  sec- 
tion of  the  district,  and  several  counties. 

Q.  Did  it  extencd  25  or  30  miles  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  think  some  of  his 
distilleries  were  nearly  40  miles  from  the  oftice. 

Q.  Then  if  he  should  have  a  requisition  from  a  distiller  to  take  out 
spirits  in  one  end  of  the  district,  and  another  one  in  the  district  on  the 
same  day  also  wanted  to  withdraw  spirits,  it  was  impossible  for  him  to 
go  to  both  places  except  within  several  days  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  impossi- 
ble to  reach  both  places  at  the  same  time,  and  satisfy  the  distillers. 

Q.  Was  it  peimissible,  under  such  circumstances,  for  him  to  delegate, 
with  your  i)ei'misMon,  some  i)ropcr  ofticer  to  take  his  i)lace  at  one  of  his 
distilleries  ? — A.  He  was  allowed  by  the  oflice  to  do  this  for  the  accom- 
modation of  the  distiller. 

Q.  Do  you  mean  by  the  oflice,  the  bureau  here  in  Washington? — A, 
No,  sir;  my  ofticc. 

Q.  There  was  no  law  prohibiting  it? — A.  1  do  not  think  that  it 
was  strictly  in  accordance  with  the  regulations,  but  there  being  no  fraud 
in  it,  no  i)urpose  to  di'ceive  anybody,  it  being  necessary  for  their  accom- 
modation tog(i  to  ihe-edistillers  when  they  made  sales,  that  we  thought 
it  best  to  work  it  in  the  way  we  did,  and  allowed  it. 

Q.  Did  you  allow  ihat  juivilege  to  other  general  storekeepers! — A. 
Yes,  sir;  to  all  of  Ihem. 

Q.  Was  there  any  instance  of  fraud  upon  the  government  growing 
tmt  of  it? — A.  None  th  it  1  know  of. 

Q.  None  ever  reitortcd  to  you! — A.  Except  in  the  cas(^  of  S'3tzer,  at 
(Jlark's  distillery  <1own  there,  where  it  turne«l  out  afterwards  that  there 
was  something  wrong  with  the  distillery. 

(I.  Was  that  the  insiance  where  it  was  the  first  act  of  the  general  store- 
k<M'i»er  after  getting  ofii.e! — A.  I  do  not  remember  whether  it  was  the 
hrst,  act;  it  was  a  little  alter  he  was  appointe<l. 

(}.  A  good  deal  has  been  said  here  in  one  i)art  of  the  investigation 
about  theeiri|)lo>  men  I  o|  .lames  II.  Ilai  lis,  a  colored  man,  in  your  district, 
and  about  his  being  absent  from  duly  making  speeches  in  the  canvass; 
state  what  you  have  to  Hiy  about  tlie  matter. — A.  J  Ian  is  is  a  colored 
man  in  thai  State  whom  we  think  very  well  of  there.  We  had  forsome 
time  thought  it  would  be  a  go.»d  idea  to  employ  a  colored  man  iu  thedis- 
liict  lor  the  piirjiose  of  getting  anytliing  that  Wie  colored  peojile  might 
kiio.v  al»oiit  what  was  going  on  in  tiie  way  of  illicit  distilling,  or  illicit 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  371 

sales  of  tobacco  or  whisky,  and  it  was  moi'e  in  connection  with  the  sales 
of  whisky  and  tobacco  that  Harris  was  employed. 

Q.  Yon  mean  illegal  sales? — A.  Any  illicit  sales.  Along-  the  South 
Oarolina  line  there  are  no  illicit  distilleries,  but  parts  of  the  eastern 
end  of  tlie  district  have  always  been  a  sort  of  depot  for  illicit  traders  in 
tobacco  and  whisky.  We  have  had  great  ditilieidty  in  getting  at  any- 
thing of  that  kind  that  would  happen  there  in  that  locality.  That  was 
in  the  county  of  Union,  more  especially,  and  Cabarrus,  Mecklenburg, 
and  (Jlevelai)d.  I  had  an  idea  of  emi)loying  a  colored  man,  with  a  view 
of  getting  at  some  of  these  things,  and  Harris,  having  applied  to  me  for 
ii  i)lace,  I  gave  it  to  him. 

Q.  Was  he  well  known  among  colored  peo])le  generally? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  And  had  their  confidence? — A.  Y^es;  I  thought  he  could  give  me 
isorae  information  that  I  w^anted,  and  I  gave  him  the  place.  He  did  go 
;*about  through  that  district  to  Union,  Cleveland,  Shelby,  Lincolnton, 
"Charlotte,  Concord,  Salisbury,  and  Mocksville,  I  think,  and  he  gave  me 
from  ti'ue  to  time — would  write  me  anything  that  he  would  learn  in  re- 
gard to  those  matters.  I  told  him  to  report  to  me  personally,  that  if 
he  found  out  anything  to  let  me  know  about  it;  and  he  traveled  around 
in  the  district  in  that  way. 

Q.  He  made  politieal  speeches  occasionally,  did  he  not? — A.  Yes, 
.t>ir.  He  is  a  fine  politieal  talker,  and  in  the  latter  part  of  his  service  a 
.campaign  was  going  on,  and  he  made  some  speeches. 

Q.  Coidd  he  not  have  nuide  speeches  without  neglecting  his  duties? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  he  could  have  facilitated  those  duties  by  gettiug  crowds 
to  listen  to  him.  He  had  a  better  opportunity  to  hear  anything  that 
•wa^  going  on  in  that  way. 

Q.  By  talking  around  among  the  crowd  afterwards? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  It  was  said  that  he  was  engaged  at  one  time  outside  of  the  sixth 
district  in  making  political  si)eeches. — A.  I  never  heard  that.  Ho  migh1> 
have  made  a  speech  or  two  at  home;  he  would  go  home  to  llaleigh  now 
and  then,  and  might  have  made  speeches  there, 

Q.  Was  there  a  time  there  when  he  was  off  without  pay? — A.  Yes; 
there  were  a  series  of  appointments  in  the  f.ill  of  1880,  and  with  a  view 
to  going  into  the  canvass  in  that  section  of  the  State,  he  did  not  do  duty 
as  deputy  while  he  made  speeches;  I  mean,  tiie  canvass  that  he  made 
was  while  he  was  not  employed. 

Q.  He  was  not  paid  as  a  deputy  for  the  time  he  was  in  this  canvass  ! — 
A.  After  he  went  oti'  he  made  some  speeches;  stdl  he  was  a  deputy, 
but  not  in  regular  line  of  appointment  for  a  few  days.  He  was  not  on 
duty  when  he  was  making  the  regular  canvass;  he  was  relieved. 

Q.  The  vouchers  you  sent  in  for  his  name  showed  that  for  a  certain 
length  of  time  no  vouelier  wis  sent  in  for  him  for  piiv ;  what  time  was 
that  ? — A.  It  was  during  the  month  of  October,  just  preceding  the  elec- 
tion. 

Q.  The  Commissioner  wrote  a  letter  to  your  sub  u'dinate  at  one  time 
inquiring  in  regard  to  these  assessments  for  office  e.\:i)enses  not  allowed 
by  the  government.  At  another  time  he  wrote  a  letter  to  your  subor- 
<linates,  as  he  states,  inquiring  whether  you  were  indebted  to  any  of 
them,  to  which  he  received  replies.  Did  vou  issue  any  form  for  these 
rei)lies,  or  give  any  instructions  for  such? — A.  Xu,  sir. 

Q.  Was  it  done  to  your  knowledge  by  any  on  t  under  your  employ? — 
A.  Xo,  sir;  1  think  not.  Mr.  Dwire  stated  about  how  that  was.  Ther« 
was  no  form  of  circular  or  letter  sent  out  to  reply  by.     There  was,  as 


372  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Mr.  Dwire  stated  afterwards — I  did  uot  know  about  it  ;it  tlic  time — a 
statement  from  Mr.  J)wire  to  some  of  tlieni  asking-  tlieni  to  be  certain 
aboirt  tbe  amount  that  they  had  returned  to  the  Commissioner,  for  the- 
reason  that  if  they  did  not  do  so  it  woukl  bother  the  accounts,  and  lie 
did  not  want  any  discrepancy  in  it. 

Q.  That  was  in  regard  to  these  assessments'? — A.  Yes;  wliat  1  was. 
talking  about. 

Q.  It  was  talked  about  that  a  letter  was  sent  out  by  the  Commissioner^ 
and  he  said  he  received  answers  in  tive  or  six  days  asking  if  you 
■were  indebted  to  any  of  them? — A.  No;  there  was  no  form  issued  at 
the  time.  I  was  here.  I  did  not  know  the  letter  was  sent  out,  as  Gen^^ 
eral  Eaum  stated.  I  -was  in  the  city  after  it  had  gone  out,  and  the  re- 
plies were  coming  in  when  1  heard  that  such  a  letter  had  been  sent  out. 
But  there  was  no  form  of  re])ly  sent  from  my  office;  the  letters  will  show 
that  there  could  be  no  regular  form. 

Q.  Was  there  any  form  put  out  under  your  instructions  bjwour  depu- 
ties, so  far  as  you  know,  to  influence  as  what  these  replies  shoulJ  boiin 
any  way? — A.  iSTot  in  any  way  whatever.  I  did  not  go  home  but  re- 
mained here  all  the  time.  The  letters  were  sent  directly  to  the  otticers- 
from  the  dei)artment  to  their  post-offices,  and  it  would  be  impossible  in 
the  quick  return  to  have  any  system  of  exjilanation  or  instructions  with 
regard  to  it  sent  out.     Those  letters  should  be  in  here  this  morning. 

31  r.  Pool.  I  desire  to  put  these  letters  in  in  connection  with  the  doc- 
tor's statement,  the  replies  that  the  Commissioner  received,  the  letter 
asking  in  regard  to  the  amounts  paid  for  office  expenses,  and  also  the 
replies  to  the  letter  which  the  Commissioner  sent  out  .asking  if  ilie  col- 
lector was  indebted  to  any  of  his  subordinates.  ^ 

The  Chairman.  You  do  not  want  them  all  i)ublished  ? 

Mr.  Pool.  Yes;  we  want  them  pul-lished  to  show  on  their  face  that 
there  was  i:o  form  of  reply  sent  out. 

Tlie  Chairman.  I  am  willing  to  have  them  e[)itomized  and  put  in  ; 
but  in  their  ])resent  shape  they  would  make  a  considerable  volume 
merely  to  show  one  f:ict. 

The  Witness.  If  I  am  allowed  to  state,  they  are  in  regard  to  a  very 
imi)ortant  matter  down  there. 

►Senator  Mitchell.  I  think  it  is  very  proper  evidence  in  this  case  as. 
l»ert;iining  to  a  f\ict  that  has  been  in  dispute.  The  Commissioner 
thought  it  of  sufficient  importance  to  inquire  into  it,  and,  of  course,  the- 
h'tteis  are  evidencje  in  the  case. 

Seuiitor  McDiLL.  1  move  that  Mr.  Pool  be  requested  to  nuirk  in  pen- 
cil the  i)arts  he  desires  to  be  i)rinted,  and  they  be  introduced  in  tine 
tyi)e,  subject  to  the  revision  of  the  committee,  so  that  the  committee 
can  cut  out  everything  which  ought  not  to  go  in. 

Mr.  Pool.  I  would  much  rather  that  the  stenographer  would  do  that 
undci-  the  general  instructions  of  the  committee. 

'J'lie  Commissioner's  letters  and  extracts  Irom  the  replies  are  as  fol- 
low s : 

TKK.VSlIltV    I)i;rAi:  IMKNT, 

Ol-'FK  K    ttV    InIKKNAL    Rk VKNUK, 

n\tHlihi;il(ni,  l).  C,  Ihecmbir  15,  1880. 
Sik:  You  will  jilcasd  report  to  this  oHicp  tlii!  iirriomit  coiitrUnitcd  by  yon  to  defray 
t\w  iiici<loiitiil  ♦•xpcuscs  of  the  ollii-e  of  the  ((lUcctor  of  Mir  sixth  district  of  North 
Carolina. 

J{«'HIM'Ct(llllv, 

(iHEEN  H.  KAl'M, 

CtnnmlxHtoner. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NoKTlI    CAROLINA.  373 

P.  M.  Hililcbrancl,  Xewtou,  X.  C,  January  !},  I83O:  •'  I  paid  $•>.'' 

L.  M.  Davis,  York  Institute,  N.  C, ,  1S30:  "I  have  not  paid  anytliini,'  to  defray 

the  above-named  expenses." 

Robert  R.  Ray,  Charlotte, — .December  13, 1'^SO:  "I  have  contributed  to  the  iu- 

cidental  expenses  of  the  collector's  otfice     »     *     »     oue  month's  salary,  say,  |'JU." 

William  J.  Coite,  Statesville,  December  18,1830:  "  I  regret  bt  lug  obliged  to  rftjdy, 
that  not  having  kepr  any  memorandum  of  such  amounts,  I  am  unable  to  positively 
state  them.  Some  time  during  January,  1879,  a  boy  was  eni])ioy(Ml  to  do  work  in  our 
ottice  (errands,  sweeping,  &c.),  no  other  means  of  paying  him  being  provided,  we 
office  deputies  and  clerks  made  up  the  amount  l>y  eontriljution ;  tliis  was  continued 
until  about  October,  1879,  where,  for  this  and  other oftice  expenses  not  otherwise  pro- 
vided for,  other  officers  were  asked  to  help  in  these  payments.  Fiom  January  to 
October,  1879,  I  think  I  paid  $2  per  month  direct  to  the  boy  employed,  as  my  share, 
being  in  all,  probably,  $18.  I  have  no  recollection  of  having  contiil>uted  anything 
after  October,  1879."" 

J.  Frank  Davis,  Statesville, ,  December  18,1880:  "I  have  paid  for  tables  and 

files  for  ofHcial  payjeiH  the  sum  of  ijl.^>.  I  have  also  expended,  as  my  part  of  wages 
'paid  to  the  office  messenger,  about  $12  or  |15  up  to  July  1, 1880.  These  amounts  were 
iiil  paid  from  my  private  money." 

M.  W.  Jewett,  Dallas,  X.  C,  December  18,  1880:  "I  have  never  contributed  any-' 
thing  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector." 

H.  W.  Dean,  Statesville,  ,  December  18,  1880:  "I  have  expendeil  nothing  for 

such  expenses." 

A.  B.  Gillespie,  Statesville, ,  December  18,  1880:  '"I  have  never  contributed 

anything  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  oftice  of  the  collector." 

Franklin  (i.  Thorpe,  p]agle  Mills,  X.  C,  December  18,  1830 :  "  I  did  not  furnish  any- 
thing in  the  last  campaign,  as  I  was  not  then  storekeeper  and  ganger." 

Richard  Williams,  Morgauton,  N.  C,  December  18,  1880:  "I  have  contributed 
nothing,  as  I  have  not  been  on  duty." 

H.  C.  Snipes,  Morganton,  N.  C,  December  19,  1880:  "I  have  never  been  assigned 
to  duty  yet,  conse(iuently  have  contribirted  nothing." 

J.  B.  Richards,  Gastouia,  X.  C,  December  20,  18313:  "  I  have  never  contributed  any- 
thing for  this  purpose." 

John  F.  Aydlotte,  Buffalo  Paper  Mill,  X.  C,  December  20,  1830:  "I  have  not  con- 
tributed anything  to  office  of  the  sixth  collection  district  of  Xorth  Carolina  for  inci- 
dental expenses.     I  have  never  been  asked  to  contribute  anything." 

T.  J.  Dula,  Wilkesborough, ,  December  20,  1880 :  "  I  have  contributed  nothing 

for  such  purposes." 

W.  Skidmore,  Mount  Holly,  N.  C,  December  20,  1880:  "I  have  not  contributed 
Jinylhing  toward  the  object  named,  nor  have  I  been  called  upon  to  do  so." 

M.  L.  WhiMey,  Old  Fort,  X.  C,  December  20,  1330:  "I  requested  the  collector  to 
pay  iji25  for  me  to  the  Finance  Committee  for  Republican  funds  in  defraying  election 
exi>enses;  not  having  tlie  money  myself,  and  not  getting  ray  June  pay,  I  was  unable 
to  advance  the  amount,  and  asked  the  collector  to  do  so  for  me." 

P.  F.  Langenour,  Panther  Creek,  X''.  C,  December  21),  1330:  "I  have  contributed 
only  $1  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  ofticti  of  the  collector." 

Jere  Smith,  Taylorsville,  X.  C,  December  20,  1830:  "I  have  not  contributed  any 
lor  the  above-mentioned  expenses." 

W.  D.  Mason,  Fork  Church,  X.  C,  December  20,  1830:  ''  I  contributed  to  defray  the 
expenses  of  the  office     *     *     *     the  amount  of  .$88." 

P.  M.  Xicks,  Hamptonville,  X.  C, December  20, 1880:  "The  undersigned  has  respect- 
fully to  report  that  he  contributed  $104  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office 
of  the  collector." 

C.  L.  "Weir,  Mocksville,  X.  C,  December  20,  1880:  "I  have  not  i)aid  anything 
towards  defraying  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector." 

R.  J.  Williams,  Rutherford  ton,  December  20,  1880:  "I  have  paid  nothing  to  defray 
incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  collector.'' 

J.  L.  Jones,  Panther  Creek,  X.  C,  December  21,  1880:  "I  think  the  amount  is 
about  .$.5." 

Milton  A.  Holland,  Dallas,  X.  C,  December  21,  1880:  "I  have  not  kept  a  strict 
account,  »  *  *  but  I  state  that  I  have  contributed  about  .$7.40  to  defray  the  inci- 
dental expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector." 

George  H.  Brown,  Statesville,  X.  C,  December  21,  1880  :  "  In  reply,  say  that  at  some- 
time duiing  the  latter  part  of  the  year  1378,  the  work  of  the  office  having  become  so 


o74  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

large,  tliat  it  was  .agreed  among  the  employes  of  tlie  oftice  to  contriliiite  and  \r.iy  a  col 
oredboy.  as  a  porter  or  messenger,  to  clean  up  the  office,  hnild  fires,  and  remain  dnriug 
the  day  to  go  on  errands,  &c.  He  also  waited  upon  Mr.  J.  F.  Davis,  one  of  the  clerks,, 
who  had  a  room  and  slept  in  the  office  bnilding.  I  kept  no  memorandum  or  acconnt 
of  the  amount  paid,  and  do  not  now  remember  the  amount.  The  whole  amount  did 
not  exceed  $15.  Since  I  have  been  connected  with  the  office  I  have  also  paid  for  a 
rough  desk  for  my  own  convenience — a  trifling  sum,  not  exceeding  !|3.50. 

Alouzo  C.  Mondaj',  Coopers,  N.  C,  December  21,  1880:  "I  have  never  been  asked 
to  contribute  anything  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector."' 

G.  A.  J.  Sechler,  China  Grove,  N.  C,  December  21,  1880:  "I  have  not  contributed 
anything  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector,  »  *  *  as  I 
never  was  asked  to  give  anything." 

George  W.  Williams,  Asheville,  N.  C,  December  21 ,  18-:!0 :  "  I  never  have  contributed 
one  cent  to  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office." 

W.  W.  White,  ,  December  21,  1880:  "I  haven't  contributed  anything." 

"W.  A.  "Williams,  Morganton,  N.  C,  December  21,  1880 :  "  I  havt^never  been  assigned 
to  duty  as  storekeeper  and  ganger,  conse<iuently  have  contributed  nothing  to  collec- 
tor's office." 

Claudius  T.  Herman,  Taylorsville,  N.  C,  December  22,  l-^^SO:  "I  have  not  con- 
tributed anything  for  the  above  named  expenses." 

P.  L.  Eose,  Statosville,  N.  C,  December  22,  1830:  "I  never  subscribed  or  contril)uted 
anything  except  towards  paying  Henry  Dean,  a  colored  boy,  who  waited  on  the  office. 
I  have  forgotten  tiie  amount  paid  to  him,  but  from  the  best  of  my  recollection  I  paid 
him  .$2  per  month  for  several  months." 

O.  M.  Barkley,  Statesville,  N.  C,  December  22,  1880:  "I  did  not  keep  a  strict  ac- 
count, but  I  suppose  I  have  contributed  some  $3  or  $i  to  defray  some  expenses  con- 
nected with  the  office  of  the  collector." 

H.  I.  Kennedy,  King's  Mountain,  N.  C,  December  22,  1880:  •'  I  have  contributed  to> 
defray  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector,      *       i*       *       .$7.75." 

W.  B.  Lay,  Gastonia,  N.  C,  December  22,  1880:  "I  have  kept  no  account  of  the 
amount  contributed  by  me  for  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  coltector's  office  of  this 
(sixth)  district  of  North  Carolina,  but  have  contributed  a  small  amount  at  dittereut 
times  before  last  June;  nothing  since  then.  Would  suppose  that  the  total  sum  so  con- 
tributed would  be  about  $i)  or  ,$6." 

C.  W.  Lourance,  Statesville,  N.  C,  December  22,  1880:  "The  amount  conti-ibuted 
by  me  was  about  )Jii.  10,  p.iid  in  tlu  collector's  office." 

H.  Y.  Mott,  Statesville,  N.  C,  December  22,  1880:  "I  respectfully  state  that  I  never 
contributed  anything." 

H.  X.  Dwire,  Statesville,  N.  C,  December  22,  1880:  "I  have  not  contributed  any- 
thing to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  otifice  of  collector." 

Enoch  Rector,  Marshall,  N.  C,  December  22,  1880:  "At  the  time  I  was  called  upnii 
by  collector  Mott  to  contribute  to  the  incidental  ex]>enses  of  the  office,  I  did  not  have 
the  funds  to  pay,  and  it  was  generally  understood  that  the  westeru  district,  being  \n 
the  mountains,  should  bear  their  own  expenses.  I  did  all  I  could  for  our  party  during 
the  cam]>aign." 

A.  >L  Vail,  Mocksville,  N.  C,  December  22,  1880:  "It  has  never  been  my  privilege 
to  contribute  anything,  as  I  have  only  been  in  the  employment  of  the  government, 
under  collector  Mott,  since  the  1st  of  the  present  month,  consequently  I  have  made 
none." 

D.  C.  Pearson,  Morganton,  N.  C,  December  22,  1880:  "In  conseciuence  of  my  hav- 
ing jiaid  my  own  cxjicnses  as  a  delegate  to  Chicago,  I  was  not  called  upon  by  the  col- 
lector, lor  iic  knew  of  my  having  defrayed  the  expenses  of  a  considerable  number  of 
delegates  to  our  State  convention  in  addition  to  my  own  at  Chicago.  I  also  contrib- 
tited  to  the  expense  of  the  campaign  in  this  county,  Caldwell,  and  McDow<'ll.  that 
adjoin.  In  a  word,  I  can  say  truthfully  that  fioni  the  beginning  to  the  end  of  the 
campaign  I  contrilnited  not  less  than  ijjiGOO." 

Wade  \V.  Hampton,  Eagle  Mills,  December  23,  188(1:  "  I  have  never  been  called  oiv 
by  the  coliiclor  of  this  district  to  contribute  anything  tor  incidental  expenses." 

I.  O.  Hart.  L(^wisvill<i,  N.  C,  Dccinibcr  2:!,  1880:  "I  never  have  been  on  duty  uutii 
the  Htli  (\;i\  of  liiiH  month,  conse(iii(  iitly  haven't  as  yet  received  any  compensatioD^ 
and  have  not  been  asked  for  any  conl  liiiiil  ions." 

'r.  A.  (Jill,  ,  D<'cember  23,  18H0 :  "I  jiavc  not  done  anything  in  this  line  as- 

yet  :   liavc  not  bfcn  called  on  for  anything.     This  is  my  first  month  on  duty." 

S.  I>.  lb-own.  Ilami.tonville,  N.  C, -December  23,  1880:  "To  the  best  of  my  knowl- 
rdge,  1  have  contributefl  Init  SI." 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  375 

W.  F.  Holland,  King's  Momitain,  N.  C,  December  23,  1^80:  "I  am  not  positive  as 
amount  to  contributed  foi"  incidental  expenses,  as  I  kept  no  record,  but  tliiuk  about 
15  or  $6."' 

C.  T.  Colyer,  Statesville,  December  23,  1880:  "  The  sum  paid  by  me  in  montlily  pay- 
ments for  about  eight  months  amounted  to  about  $15  t<»\vards  the  messenger's  wages." 

T.  L.  Shields,  Charlotte,  N.  C,  December  23,  1880:  "I  ha%'e  contributed  nothing  to 
the  present  date  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector." 

F.  P.  Axley,  Murphy,  ,  December  23,  1880 :."  I  have  never  made  any  contri- 
butions for  such  purposes." 

W.  S.  Arnold,  Hamptonville,  N.  C,  December  23,  1>^80:  "I  have  not  paid  anything, 
from  the  fact  I  had  not  been  in  business  but  a  few  weeks,  and  have  not  been  called 
on.'' 

J.  Q.  Peden,  Wilkes, ,  December  23,  1880:  "I  have  contributed  nothing.'' 

A.  F.  Pack,  Fork  Church,  N.  C,  December  23,  1880:  "I  bave  not  contril>ut<'d  any- 
thing to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector." 

R.  C.  Perkins,  Morganton,  N.  C,  December  23,  1880:  "I  do  not  understand  the 
meaning  of  the  inquiry,  knowing  nothing  at  all  of  incidental  expenses,  and  never 
having  contributed  anything  to  such  account." 

M.  L.  Hooper,  Williamsburg,  X.  C,  December  23,  1880:  "I  have  the  honor  to  report 
to  your  office  the  amount  of  .$4  that  I  contributed  to  defray  '  not  the  incidental  ex- 
penses proper,'  but  the  extraordinary  expenses,  not  otherwise  provided  for  by  the  de- 
partment, as  I  understood  it,  of  the  office  of  the  collector     *     *     *." 

W.  F.  Hood,  Yadkinville,  N.  C,  December  23,  1880  :  "I  have  never  been  asked  to 
contribute  anything  to  defray  the  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector." 

E.  Stanly  Walton,  Morganton,  N.  C,  December  23,  1880:  "  Have  never  been  called 
upon  by  the  collector  of  *  *  *  for  contributions  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses 
of  his  office  ;  consequently  have  contributed  nothing." 

H.  H.  Martin,  Dallas,  \.  C,  December  24,  1880  :  "Made  no  incidental  contribution  to 
defray  the  expenses  of  the  collector's  office." 

Samuel  R.  Gudger,  Morganton,  N.  C,  December  24,  1880:  "Have  not  been  called 
npon  to  contribute  anything  to  defray  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector." 

A.  J.  Jenkins,  Dallas,  N.  C,  December  24,  1880:  "Have  not  been  requested  or  as- 
sessed to  pay  anything  for  office  expenses,  contingent  or  otherwise,  since  my  connec- 
tion with  the  revenue  department,  either  by  Dr.  Mott  or  any  other  officer  in  the 
internal  revenue  service." 

R.  C.  Bowles,  Sweet  Home,  X.  C,  December  24,  1830:  "Have  contributed  nothing 
to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  collector's  office." 

W.  C.  Myers,  Lovelace,  N.  C,  December  24,  1880:  "Have  not  paid  any  incidental 
expenses  of  the  collector's  office." 

T.  W.  Sharpe,  Sweet  Home,  N.  C,  December  24,  l^SO:  "Have  contribute;!  nothing 
to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  collector's  office.'' 

A.  B.  Rhyne,  Dallas,  N.  C,  December  24,  1880:  "  I  did  not  contribute  anything  to 
the  sixth  district  of  North  Carolina.     I  was  not  requested  to  contribute  anything." 

D.  C.  Pearson,  Morganton,  N.  C  ,  December  24,  1880:  "I  was  not  on  duty  at  the 
time,  aud  was  not  among  those  who  were  called  upon  to  contribute  to  the  expenses 
of  the  office  at  Statesville,  N.  C." 

J.  H.  Pitts,  Catawba,  N.  C,  December  24,  1880:  "  Have  never  been  asked  for  con- 
tributions for  any  purpose," 

M.  Kimbrough,  Smith  Grove,  N.  C,  December  24, 1830  :  "  My  recollection  is  that  the 
amount  contributed  was  about  .$4." 

W.  C.  Morrison,  Statesville,  N.  C,  December  24,  1881:  "  Have  contributed  the  sum 
of  $4  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector.'' 

Lawson  A.  Mason,  Dallas,  X.  C,  December  24,  1880:  "Have  no  statement  of  the 
amount  contributed,  hence  I  will  refer  yon  to  the  collector's  office  at  Statesville,  N.  C, 
for  information." 

J.  B.  Evans,  Rutherfordton,  N.  C,  December  24,  1880:  "For  five  or  six  months  I 
paid  1  per  cent,  of  my  salary  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  office  of  the  collector, 
■*     *     *     amounting  to  $5  or  $6 ;  since  March  last  I  don't  think  I  have  paid  anything." 

J.  M.  Armstrong,  Dallas,  N.  C,  December  24,  1880:  "A  request  was  made  that  I 
would  contribute  $1  per  mouth  or  1  per  cent,  of  my  wages  to  defray  an  expense  of 
said  office,  that  had  not  otherwise  been  paid,  and  in  this  wav  I  paid  for  said  purpose 

|(;.25." 

Elbert  Wallace,  Wilkesboro,  N.  C,  December  24,  1880:  "  I  have  never  contributed 
anything  to  said  office  for  the  pnrpose  above  referred  to." 


376  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

8.  P.  Ward,  Couuty  Line,  N.  C,  December  25,  1880  :  "  I  have  uot  coiitril)iited  any- 
tliing  to  defray  the  iiioideutal  expenses  of  the  oftice  of  the  collector." 

E.  A.  Cobb,  Morgaiitoii,  N.  C,  December  25,  1880  :  "  No  recollection  of  ever  being 
asessed  any  amount  for  that  purpose." 

Wade  H.  Hntiman,  Dallas,  N.  C,  December  25,  18&0:  "Have  never  contributed 
anything  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  collector's  otMce." 

W.  S.  McKee.  Gastonia,  N.  C,  December  25,  1880:  "  Have  never  contributed  any- 
thing to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  this  sixth  district  of  North  Carolina." 

W.  H.  Hobson,  Jerusalem,  N.  C,  December  25,  1880:  "  Have  contributed  nothing." 

L.  C.  Jennings,  Moravian  Falls,  N.  C,  December  25,  1880:  "  Have  not  contributed 
anything  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  collector's  otifice.  *  »  *  Have 
not  been  asked." 

W.  H.  Rhyne,  Dallas,  N.  C,  December  26,  1880:  "I  was  asked  to  contribute  1  per 
cent,  of  my  wages,  and  have  not  kept  any  account  of  the  payment.  I  think  about 
$12." 

J.  N.  Hayes,  Miller's  Creek,  N.  C,  December  27,  1880:   "  It  is  between  |4  and  |6." 

John.  A.  Keener,  Poor's  Ford,  N.  C,  DecemlK'r27, 1880:  "I  i)ai(l  in  §17.'<>  to  pay  office 
expenses  in  the  collector's  otHce." 

B.  V.  Beal,  Lincolnton,  N.  C,  December  27,  1880:  "I  must  say  that  I  have  never 
contributed  anything." 

Julius  Britton,  Moiganton,  N.  C,  Deceml>er  27,  18-10  :  "Contributed  nothing  to 
the  expt-nses  account  of  the  oftice  at  Statesville,  N.  C." 

W.J.Mills,  Salisbury,  N.  C,  December  27  1880:  "Have  not  been  asked  to  con- 
tribute any  money  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  "of  the  collector." 

W.  M.  Nicholson,  Morganton,  N.  C,  Decembf-r  27,  1880:  "  Have  never  been  called 
on  to  help  to  defray  ^ai(l  expenses,  therefore  never  contributed  anyihing  for  that  pur- 
pose." 

W.  F.  Porter,  Mulberry,  N.  C,  December  27,  1880:  "Have  not  contributed  any- 
thing to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  collector's  office." 

H.  M.  Rhyne,  Stanley's  Creek,  N.  C, .December  27,  1880:  "Never  have  been  asked 
for  any  contributions." 

S.  P.  Smith,  Wilkesborough,  N.  C,  December  27,  1880:  "  Have  neither  been  called 
upon  nor  contributed  anything." 

John  M.  Taylor,  East  Bend,  N.  C,  December  27,  1880:  "Have  contributed  nothing." 

W.  M.  Walker,  Salisbury,  N.  C,  December  27,  1880:  "Have  not  contributed  any- 
thing to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  otlice  of  the  collector." 

E.  Ladd,  New  Castle,  N.  C,  December  28,  1880:  "Have  not  contributed  anything 
and  have  not  been  asked  for  anything." 

A.  B.  Biitner,  Smith  Grove,  N.  C,  December  28,  1880:  "  Have  kept  no  account, 
but  think  the  amount  did  uot  exceed  i|5." 

T.  A.  Atkins,  Eagle  Mills,  N.  C,  December 28,  1880:  "Have  paid  in  to  Dr.  J.  J. 
Mott,  collector,  for  incidental  expenses  the  sum  of  !|1  and  no  nu)re." 

S.  C.  Davis,  Huntsville,  N.  C,  Dee  mber  28,  1880:  "I  have  contributed  $2  towards 
defraying  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  collector's  oftice." 

H.  E.  Shore.  Red  Plains,  N.  C,  December  2"^,  188() :  "  I  have  never  been  asked  by 
f)nr  collector  to  contril)ure  anything  for  pnrjxises  referred  to,  hence  have  never  done 
so.  " 

Daiiirl  S.  Summers,  Gastiui  County,  N.  C,  December  2S,  1880:  "I  can  state  not 
anything  up  to  the  i)resent." 

1'.  A.  Little,  Catawba,  N.  C,  December  28,  1880:  "  Have  not  (contributed  anything 
fr)  defray  the  inci<iental  expemses  of  the  office  of  the  collector  of  the     *     "     *  ." 

H.  II.  McKee,  Vadkinville,  N.  C,  December  2"^,  18H0 :  "I  have  never  had  any  work 
til  do  as  storekeejuT  and  ganger,  and  therefore  I  have  never  been  aske<l  to  contribute 
anything  to  defray  incidental  expenses  of  the  collector's  office!  *  '  *  but  am  will- 
ing to  meet  any  assessnn'ut  thai  may  l»e  deman<led  of  nu'." 

Kobt.  Hawkins,  High  Knob,  N.  C,  Deeeml)er  21»,  1880:  "I  have  not  contributed 
anything  to  ihe  ineideiital  expenses  of  the  office  sixth  district,  North  (Carolina." 

J.  I',.  Simonton,  WilkeslK)rongh,  N.  ('.,  December  :{0,  ISSO  :  "I  state  I  have  not,  nor 
li.i\e  lieen  called  u|)on  for  anything  for  that  )>nrpose." 

.1.  1'.  Someis,  Wilksborongh,  N.  ('.,  December  30,  1880:  "I  have  not,  nor  never  have 
been  called  upon  for  anything  for  the  ]Mii'|)()se." 

.1.  IUe\  ins,  .lellerson,  \.  ('.,  i)e(eml)er  :?0,  1880:  "I  mver  eontribnted  anything  to 
the  oltiee  ,it  Statesville,      I  never  liiise  been  asked  for  a  n  \  I  li  i  ng  yet." 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  377 

A.  C.  Bryan,  Wilkesborouj'h,  N.  C,  December  30,  18b0 :  "I  have  not  i)ai(l  anything 
to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  collector's  office." 

Mecans  Casstevens,  Jonesville,  N.  C,  December  30,  I860:  "  I  have  contril)uted  I)ut 
$1  to  the  object  referred  to." 

A.  W.  Austin,  Wilkesb()ron<;h,  N.  C,  December  30,  1880:  "I  have  not  contributed 
anything  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  otliiccr  of  collector." 

S.  L.  Davis,  Yadkinville,  N.  C,  December  30,  1880:  "  I  was  nev^er  called  on  for  any 
fnnds  for  incidental  expenses  for  the  collector     '     *     *." 

S.  K.  Harkrader,  Dobson,  N.  C,  December  31,  18H0  :  "  I  iiave  never  been  called  upon 
for  anything  and  have  not  i)aid  anything." 

J.  C.  Johnson,  Hamptonville,  N.  C,  December  31,  ISHO  :  "I  have  contril)nted  noth- 
ing, not  being  called  on." 

Noah  Barringer,  Newton,  N.  C,  December  31.  1880:  "I  have  not  contribnted  any- 
thing to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  ottice  of  the  collector." 

L.  A.  Robinson, :  "  Have  paid  !|4.'2.5." 

Samuel  C.  Welch,  East  Bend,  N.  C,  January  1,  1881:  "I  was  not  asked  for  any- 
thing, and  did  not  contribute  anything,  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office 
•of  the  collector." 

W.  R.  Trull,  ,  January  1,  1881:  "Have  never  paid  or  contributed  anything 

for  incidental  expenses  of  the  otifice  of  the  collector." 

J.  T.  Mcintosh,  Taylorsville,  N.  C,  January  1,  1881 :  "Have  not  contributed  any- 
thing to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  otifice  of  the  collector." 

J.  W.  I'aden,  Ai)ple  Grove,  N.  C,  January  1,1881:  "I  never  contributed  anything, 
nor  neither  was  I  called  on  to  do  so." 

T.  J.  Martin,  Haysville,  N.  C,  January  1,  1881:  "No  funds  have  been  contributed 
by  me  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  otifice  of  collector." 

Enoch  Rector,  Marshall,  N.  C,  January  1,  1881:  "  I  did  not  know  anything  of  that, 
having  never  been  called  to  contribute  such." 

.John  F.  Smitherman,  East  Bend,  N.  C,  January  1,  1881:  "I  have  not  given  any- 
thing." 

J.  B.  Somers,  Hunting  Creek,  N.  C,  January  1, 1881 :  "  Have  contributed  nothing." 

E.  Q.  Houston,  Mount  Mourne,  N.  C,  January  1,  1881:  "  Have  contributed  nothing 
to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  collector's  otifice." 

N.  H.  Farrington,  Jonesville,  N.  C,  Jauua,ry  1,  1881 :  "  I  never  contributed  anything, 
and  never  was  asked." 

M.  H.  Vestal,  Jonesville,  N.  C,  January  1,  1881;  "I  have  contributed  one  dollar 
to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  otifice  of  the  collector." 

W.  C.  Prevett,  Osboruville,  N.  C,  January  1,  1881:  "I  have  contributed  $2.10  to 
defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  otifice  of  the  collector." 

W.  B.  England, ,  January  1,  1881 :  "  Have  paid  $7.15." 

Milus  M.  Crumel,  Cross  Roads  Church,  N.  C,  Jauuary  1,  1881 :  "I  contributed  to 
the  office  of  the  collector  *  *  *  about  $3.r)0  to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of 
that  office." 

W.  F.  Alexander,  Roaring  River,  N.  C,  Jauuary  1,  1881 :  "I  contributed  to  defray 
the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  sixth  district  of  North  Carolina,  $1.80." 

D.  M.  Haithcox,  Troutman's,  N.  C,  .Tanuary  1,  1881:  "I  was  not  called  on  for  any- 
thing and  did  not  contribute  anything." 

Leanders  L.  Green,  Boone, N.  C,  January  2,  18S1  :  "Have  not  contributed  anything 
to  defray  the  inciilental  expenses  of  the  collector." 

J.  H.  Harris,  Salisbury,  N.  C,  January  2,  18S1 :  "  Have  notbeeu  asked  to  contribute 
for  the  purpose  mentioned,  and  I  have  contributed  nothing." 

Wm.  P.  A.  White,  McCurdy,  N.  C,  Jauuary  3,  1881 :  "  Have  not  paid  anything  for 
any  purpose." 

H.  P.  Conley,  Caldwell  City,  N.  C,  Ja)iuary  3,  1881:  "  Have  not  contributed  any- 
thing to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector." 

J.  Wagoner,  Hamptonville,  N.  C,  Jauuary  3,  18-!1  :  "Have  not  contributed  any- 
t'.iing,  not  being  called  on." 

R.  W.  Woodruff,  Jonesville,  N.  C,  Jauuary  3,  1881 :  "  I  paid  about  $2.75  to  defray 
the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector." 

F.  M.  Adams,  Mulberry,  N.  C,  January  3,  1881  :  "I  paid  into  the  sixth  collector  of 
North  Carolina  the  sum  of  $7  for  incidental  expenses  of  &aid  office." 

W.  G.  Boyle,  Concord,  N.  C,  January  3,  1881 :  "  Have  contributed  $4.15  to  defray 
the  incidental  expenses  of  the  offi(;e  of  the  eollector." 


378  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

F.  F.  Hakoinb,  Hamptonville,  N.  C,  January  3,  iHil  :  "Have  contriljuted  about 
$1.10  to  defray  the  iucideutal  expenses  of  the  collector." 

J.  W.  Clarke,  Shelby,  N.  C.  :  "I  contributed  to  the  office  of  the  collector  *  *  *- 
$il04,  and  various  other  amounts  for  the  same  purpose  in  this  and  adjoining  counties. 
I  wrote  to  you  a  few  days  ago,  January  3,  in  rejily  to  yonrs  *  *  *  antl  reported 
that  I  had  paid  to  thecollect'>r  *  *  *  $104  for  office  expenses,  which  was  a  mistake. 
I  paid  that  amount  for  campaign  es]>enses.  I  have  paid  to  date  |'J.90  for  office  ex- 
penses." 

T.  B.  Haynes,  Jonesville,  N.  C,  January  3,  18:il :  "  Have  never  contributed  anything 
to  the  collector." 

S.  P.  Parsons,  of  Gastonia,  N.  C,  January  3,  1881:  "I  cannot  specify  the  exact 
amount.  I  think  about  $8  or  $10.  It  is  now  some  time  since  I  contributed  anything, 
and  cannot  tell  the  time  of  my  first,  but  the  assessment  was  $1  per  month." 

Emmett  Johnson,  Dellapilan,  N.  C,  January  4,  1881 :  "  Have  not  contributed  any- 
thing to  pay  the  incidental  expenses  of  collectors;  neither  have  I  been  requested  to 
pay  anything." 

Jacob  M.  Privett,  Trap  Hill,  N.  C,  January  4,  1881:  "Have  not  contributed  any- 
thing to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  sixth  district  of  North 
Carolina  ;  neither  have  I  been  asked  for  anything." 

George  Z.  Poindexter,  East  Bend,  N.  C,  January  4,  1881 :  "  Have  paid  nothing  to 
the  collector." 

D.  P.  Allgood,  Cross-Roads  Church,  N.  C,  January  5,  1881  :  "I  contributed  to  the 
office  of  the  collector  *  *  *  about  $3.15  to  defray  incidental  expenses  of  that 
office." 

Robert  L.  Bell, ,  January  .5, 1881 :  "  Have  never  contributed  anything  to  defray 

the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector." 

H.  M.  Brooks,  Jefferson,  N.  C,  January  5,  1881 :  "Have  contributed  nothing  to  de- 
fray the  incidental  expenses  of  the  collector's  office  *  *  *  that  I  can  think  of  at 
the  present." 

William  Howard,  Mountain  Creek,  N.  C,  January  5,  1881  :  "Have  not  contributed 
anything  to  defray  incidental  expenses  of  the  collector's  office.  I  have  not  been 
called  upon  to  contribute  anything." 

Samuel  H.  Johnson,  Zion,  N.  C,  January  5,  1881 :  "  Have  not  contributed  one  cent — 
not  being  called  on — for  anything  whatever." 

W.  M.  Johnson,  Sowerwood,  N.  C,  January  7,  1881  :  "  I  did  not  contribute  anything 
to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  collector's  office." 

S.  P.  I'asom,  Gastonia,  N.  C,  January  7,  1881 :  "I  find  that  I  could  not  have  con- 
tributed more  than  $7  or  $8.  I  think  about  $7  is  the  nearest  estimate  that  I  can 
make." 

A.  Wiles,  Mulberry,  N.  C,  January  7,  1881:  "I  have  not  contributed  anything." 

Sumi>ter  A.  Hoover,  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  8,  1881  :  "I  have  paid  $1  to  defray 
the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector." 

G.  W.  Setzer,  Newton,  N.  C,  January  8,  1881  :  "I  have  contribnted  to  the  amount 
of  $;')  to  thecollector's  office     *     '*     ^     fir  incidental  expenses  of  the  office." 

Andrew  J.  Burcli,  Aguone,  N.  C,  January  8,  1881  :  "Have  never  contributed  any- 
thing, nor  have  I  been  asked  or  requc^sted  to  do  so." 

F.  P.  Tucker,  Forks  Cliurch,  N.  C,  January  10,  1881 :  "  Have  nev(n'  given  anything 
for  that  i>urpose." 

R.  R.  Reid,  Olin,  N.  C,  January  10,  1881:  "Have  never  been  called  on  as  yet  to 
contribute  to  any  such  cause." 

F.  Cahlwell,  Dallas,  N.  C,  January  10,  1881:  "Have  contributed  $1  to  defray  the 
exjicnscs  of  the  collector's  office." 

JoH.  Casswell,  Morganton,  N.  C,  January  10,  1881  :  "  I  never  contributed  anything 
to  defray  tiie  incidental  exjiensos  of  tiuj  collector's  olficc^" 

A.  G.  Myres,  New  Hope,  N.  C,  January  10,  1881:  "I  have  never  contributed  any- 
thing to  (h'fray  tin-  incidental  expenses  of  the  collector's  office." 

Jno.  A.  Clouse,  Sniilli  Grove,  N.  C,  January  10,  1881:  "Have  not  paid  or  been 
asked  for  anylhing  for  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector." 

.1.  L.   Sniilh,   Me<lwiiy,   N.  ('.,  :    "Have   never  contributed  directly  or  indi- 

r<'<;tly  one  cent  to  tin-  ((tllector  of  the  r)lh  or  (Ith,  or  to  any  one  connected  with  either 
of  tlur  districts." 

M.  J.  Boscman, :   "  Have  never  givt-u  an \  thing  ;   lia\'e  not  Ik'cii  iiskcd  foi- auy- 

thing.'' 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  370 

J.  T.  Riitledi^e,  CroHS-Roads  Church,  N.  C,  January  II,  1881:  "  I  think  I  paid  p.50,. 
or  about  that  ainonnt." 

J.  S.  Jones,  East  Bend,  N.  C,  January  11,  1881:  "The  correct  amount  paid  by  me 
to  defray  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  to  be  $3.15. 

A.  B.  Howard.  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  11.  1881:  "  Have  never  contributed  any- 
thing to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector,  *  *  *  as  I 
have  never  been  called  upon  to  do  so." 

W.  L.  Webster,  Nottla,  N.  C,  January  11,  1881:  "  Have  never  contril)uted  anythiuj; 
for  the  purpose  mentioned  in  your  letter  of  the  15th  December,  1881." 

J.  A.  Mathes,  Osbornville,  N.  C,  Januarj'  12,  1881  :  "  Have  not  contributed  any- 
thing to  pay  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector." 

Wm.  M.  Moore,  Burusville,  N.  C,  January  12,  1881:  "Have  not  paid  anything  to 
defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector.  *  *  *  I  have  not  beei> 
called  upon  for  any  money  for  that  purpose.'' 

R.  R.Lowe,  Ohio,  N.  C,  January  13,  1881 :  "I  have  contributed  .^1  to  defray  the  in- 
cidental expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector." 

T.  S.  Wood, ,  January  13,  1§81:  "I  never  paid  anything  for  incidental  ex- 
penses.   I  paid  for  campaign  ]>urposes." 

G.  A.  Barkley,  Denver,  N.  C,  January  15,  1881:  "Have  contributed  $1.10  to  thc^ 
sixth  collection  district  of  North  Carolina,  as  incidental  fees." 

S.S.  Jennings,  Mulberry,  N.  C,  January  15, 1881  :  "  Have  not  contributed  any  thiiig 
to  defray  the  incidental  expenses  of  the  collector's  office." 

S.  C.  Anderson,  Boon,  N.  C,  .January  15,  1881 :  "Have  not  contriliuted  anything  tO' 
defray  incidental  exi)ecse8  of  the  office  of  the  sixth  district  of  N^orth  Carolina." 

Alex.  W.  Klutz,  Monroe,  N.  C,  January  17, 1881 :  "  Have  not  contributed  anything  to 
the  incidental  expenses  account  of  Collector  J.  J.  Mott's  office." 

M.A.White,  Statesville,  N.C.,  January  17, 1881:  "Would  respectfully  reply  that  I 
paid  nothing." 

T.  A.  Kerley,  East  Bend,  N.  C,  January  18,  1881:  "Have  not  contributed  anytliing^ 
to  defray  the  incidentals  of  the  collector's  office." 

L.  C.  Johnson,  Haniptonville,  N.  C,  January  18, 1881 :  "  Will  say  my  expenses  in  the 
collector's  office  have  been  nothing." 

Henry  Hodge,  Rutherfordton,  N.  C,  January  18, 1881 :  "  Have  never  contributed  any- 
thing." 

W.  T.  Bailey,  Morganton,  N.  C,  January  18,1881:  "Have  never  contributed  any- 
thing to  defray  the  expenses  of  the  collector's  office  of  *  *  *  ,  nor  have  not  been 
asked  for  anything  in  that  direction." 

T.  H.  Hampton,  Black  Mountain,  N.  C,  January  20,1881:  "Have  never  paid  any- 
thing in  the  office  of  the  collector  to  defray  any  incidental  expenses  of  the  office,  and 
have  never  been  called  upon  to  do  so." 

W.  C.  Daugla«s,  Trap  Hill,  N.  C,  January  20, 1881 :  "  I  never  contrib-ited  any.  and  L 
liave  never  been  a-^ked  to  contribute  any." 

J.  Q.  A.  Bryan,  Jeft'erson,  N.  C,  January  20, 1881 :  "  Have  not  contributed  anything, 
neither  have  I  been  called  upon  for  any  such  contribution." 

W.  G.  C.  Hendrix,  Smith  Grove,  N.  C,  January  20, 1881 :  "I  contributed  $2  to  defra,^ 
the  incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  collector." 

G.  W.  Patterson,  Concord,  N.  C,  January  21, 1881 :  "  I  contributed  .f  1.35  to  defray  the 
incidental  expenses  of  the  office  of  the  collector." 

Elijah  Dyer,  Maple  Springs,  N.  C,  January  29.18-^1:  "Have  not  contributed  a;iy 
money  in  tl  e  office  of  the  collector.'' 


Treasury  Di:rARTMENT, 
Offici-;  of  iNTF.nxAi^  Revenuiv 
Washingioih  U-  C.,  January  26,  1882. 
Sir  :  It  has  been  reported  to  this  office  that  officers  and  employes  in  the  sixth  dis- 
trict of  North  Carolina  have  not  received  from  the  coUectitr  the  money  due  them  for 
their  services. 

You  will  please  state  explicitly  by  return  mail  whether  Collector  Mott  is  indebted 
to  you  on  account  of  any  receipt  which  you  have  given  to  him  by  virtue  of  your  ser.'- 
ices  as  an  officer  or  employe  of  the  government. 
This  iu(fiiiry  is  not  made  upon  the  theory  that  this  office  believes  Dr.  Mott  to  have 


380  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

been  derelict,  but  because  his  official  conduct  in  this  regard  has,  by  ccrtaiu  parties, 
been  brought  in  question. 
Respectfully, 

GREEN  B.  RAUM, 

Commissioner. 

A.  B.  Rhyuo,  Dallas,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882  :  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  -^  "  *  is  not  iu- 
<lebted  to  me  for  any  service  rendered  by  me." 

John  T.  Keerans,  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  28, 1882  :  "  Collector  Mott  has  paid  me 
■every  cent  as  special  deputy  collector,  and  for  all  services  rendered,  and  he  is  not  in- 
debted to  me  on  account  of  any  receipt  given  him  for  services  as  an  officer  of  the 
_government." 

J.  C.  Johnson,  Hamptonville.N.  C,  January  28,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  has  not  re- 
tained anything  due  me,  therefore  he  owes  me  nothing." 

John  H.  Stewart,  Mocksville,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882  :  "  I  have  received  from  Col- 
lector Mott  every  cent  due  me  but  a  part  of  last  June's  pay.  I  was  informed  that  there 
was  a  deficiency,  and  to  make  out  two  sets  of  accounts,  one  up  to  and  including  June 
20,  and  the  other  for  balance  of  month.  I  did  notget  a  month's  pay  in  1880.  I  author- 
ized Collector  Mott  to  use  it  in  the  campaign." 

W.  W.  Patterson,  East  Bend,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882  :  "  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  *  *  *  has 
paid  me  every  cent  due  me." 

C.  L.  "Weir,  Mocksville,  N.  C,  January  26,  1832  :  "  Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted  to 
me  on  any  account  orreceij)!  that  I  have  given  to  him,  excepting  for  the  present 
month  of  January,  which  is  not  due  until  the  10th  of  February,  1882." 

P.  M.  Hildevana,  Newton,  N.  C,  January  2fi,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  has  paid  me  all  that 
was  due  me." 

J.  F.  Adams,  Lexington,  N.  C,  January  27,  1882 :  "  Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted 
"to  me  on  account  of  any  receipt  which  I  have  given  to  him." 

W.  A.  McCorkle,  Salisbury,  N.  C,  January  27, 1882  :  "  He  does  not  owe  me  anything 
for  any  receipt  I  have  given  him." 

W.  J.  Mills,  Salisbury,  N.  C,  January  27, 1882  :  "My  pay  has  been  received  promptly 
by  me." 

William  J.  Coite,  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  27,  1882  :  "  I  have  received  every  cent 
<lue  me  as  an  employe  of  the  government  in  this  district." 

H.  X.  Dwire,  Wiustou,  January  27,  1882 :  "  I  always  received  the  pay  promptly  and 
in  full  for  all  services  rendered  as  an  employe  of  the  government." 

J.  W.  Bean,  Lincolnton,  Januarj^  28,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  does  not  owe  for  any 
services  on  receipt  or  otherwise." 

T.  J.  Dula,  Wilkesborongh,  N.C.,  January  28,  1872:  "  Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  me  on  any  account,  neither  has  he  ever  retained  or  kept  back  one  cent  of  the 
wages  due  me,     *     »     *     but  has  paid  me  the  same  promptly." 

Hunij)lirej-  11.  Hall,  Salisbury,  N.  C,  January  28, 1872:  "Dr.  J.J.  Mott  is  due  me  no 
money  for  services  rendered." 

Noah  Barringcr,  Ncnvton,  N.  C,  .January  28,  1882  :  "  Dr.  Mott  has  paid  me  for  every 
■day  that  I  served  in  the  revenue  depai'tment." 

(i.  F.  Flowers,  Dallas,  Gaston  County,  North  Carolina,  January  22,  1882 :  "  I  have 
been  paid  in  full  of  my  services." 

.Joliii  ( '.  Callahan,  Charlotte,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882  :  "  I  received  through  Collector 
Mott  Mutice  of  my  appointment  as  storekeeper  and  ganger  sixth  district  North  Caro- 
lina, but  have  not  been  assigned  to  duty." 

S.  Cauley,  Dallas,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott,  *  *  *  of  North 
Carolina,  has  prniii|itly  jiaid  nu'  all  dues  and  demands  for  service  rendered  in  my  otlicial 
capacity." 

.M.  I.ippanl,  Taylorsville,  N.  C,  .January  28,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  has  always  paid  me 
)iri>iu|iily  for  my  services  as  st«>rek(!eper  and  ganger  as  it  became  due,  ever  since  I 
liavc  been  employed  as  such,  and  he  is  not  duo  nu;  one  cent  on  account  of  any  I'eceipt 
<)i'  anytliiug  fls(!  given  him  or  any  one  else." 

(;.  \V.('aMu<Mi,  Aslirville,  N.  C,  January  28.  1882:  "  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of  the 
MJxtJi  disfrift  of  North  Carolina,  is  not  due  nu^  any  mouthy  for  services  rendered." 

K.  I{.  Drak.',  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  28, 1882  :  "The  collector,  Dr.  J.  .1.  Mott,  does 
not  owe  me  any  money  or  wages  for  which  I  have  signed  a  receii)t." 

('.  W.  Lr)urance,  Statesville,  N.  ('.,  Ja7iu.iry  28,  1882:  "  Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  me  on  any  ttcecmnt.  I  havti  n-ccived  all  accounts  due  me  from  him  for  services 
rendered." 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  381 

T.  N.  Hallyburton,  Mor<j;anton,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882:  "I  have  received  my  com- 
pensation regTilar  from  Dr.  Mott,  and  that  lie  owes  me  nothing." 

E.  Stanley  Walton,  Morganton,  N.  C.,. January  2?^,  1882  :  '-Dr.  J.  .1.  Mott,  collector, 
is  not  indebted  to  me  on  account  of  any  receii>t  given  to  him  by  virtue  of  my  services- 
as  an  otticer  or  enii)loyt^  of  the  government." 

S.  L.  Tays,  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  2i,  l8-*2:  "I):-.  .1.  J.  M..tt  *  '  *  has- 
paid  me  promi)tly  for  every  day's  service  rendered  by  me  to  the  government."' 

F.  C.  Ferguson,  Dallas,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882:  "  Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted  to 
me  on  account  of  any  receipt  or  other  obligation,  but  that  I  have  received  my  pay 
regularly  and  promi)tly  for  all  services  rendered." 

J.B.Richards,  Gastonia,  N.  C,  January  28,  1»82 :  "Dr.  Mott,  as  collector,  owes  m& 
nothing  in  regard  to  services  ;  has  always  been  very  punctual." 

L.  A.  Robinson,  Catawba,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882  :  "  He  is  not  indebted  to  me  in  any 
way,  and  that  I  have  always  received  my  checks  promptly  for  services  rendered." 

W.  E.  Lourance,  Catawba,  N.  C,  January  28, 1882:  '■  1  have  been  paid  off  regularly  ; 
no  claims  back  of  any  kind." 

J.  H.  Ramsay,  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882:  "I  have  always  received  mr 
pay  in  full  for  services  rendered  as  an  employ*?  of  the  governnu'nt  under  him  promjttly 
at  the  close  of  each  and  every  month.  Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me  on  account  of 
'  any  receipt'  or  in  any  other  way  whatever." 

L.  A.  Brittain,  Morganton,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882:  "Received  my  pay"  regular  as 
it  came  due,  and  all  that  was  due  me  from  J.  J.  Mott." 

S.  P.  Pasour,  Stanley  Creek,  N.  C,  January  2S,  1882:  "None  of  my  dues  have  been 
withheld  from  me  by  Collector  Mott.    I  have  been  promptly  paid  for  my  services  in  the 
revenue  department,  with  the  exception  of  the  ten  last  days  of  June,  1881,  whereof 
I  was  notitied  that  the  funds  appropriated  for  the  year  were  exhausted." 

E.  L.  Smyre,  Gastonia,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882:  "  There  is  due  me  from  the  govern- 
ment $27,  for  nine  days'  work  as  storekeeper  and  ganger  in  the  month  of  June,  L881. 
This  is  all  that  is  due  me  from  the  government  in  anyway  whatever.  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott, 
collector,  told  us  storekeei)ers  and  gangers  that  there  had  not  been  api)ropriatiou! 
made  for  that  juirpose." 

W.  L.  Westnuu-eland,  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882:  "Collector  J.  J.  Mott  i» 
not  indebted  to  me  in  any  sum  on  account  of  any  receipt  that  I  have  given  him  for 
service  as  an  officer  or  employe  of  the  government." 

T.  Glenn,  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  2«,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted  to 
me  in  any  sum  whatever  on  account  of  any  receipt  I  have  given  him.  I  have  received 
all  money  due  me." 

H.  W.  Dean,  Statesville,  January  2*^,  1882:  "I  have  promptly  received  my  salary 
in  full  for  each  month's  service  rendered  the  government  from  J.  J.  ]Mott,     *     *     * 
and  he  now  owes  me  nothing  whatever  in  either  his  official  or  personal  capacity." 

A.  C.  Shaye,  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882:  "I  have  received  every  cent  due 
me  from  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott,  ofticially  or  otherwise.". 

J.Frank  Davis,  Statesville,  January  28,  1882:  "I  have  prom]»tly  received  my  salary 
in  full  for  each  month's  service  rendcied  the  government  from  .1.  J.  Mott,     «     *     * 
and  he  now  owes  me  nothing  whatever  in  either  his  official  or  personal  capacity." 

P.  L.  Rose,  Statesville.  N.  C,  January  28,  1882 :  "  I  have  received  my  salary  lu'omptly 
at  the  end  of  each  mouth." 

C.  T.  Colyer,  Statesville,  January  28,  1882:  "I  have  always  received  my  monthly 
check  in  full  from  the  cashier  and  disbursing  deputy  collector  up  to  the  present  time,, 
and  that  he  is  not  indebted  to  me  for  such  services  except  lor  the  current  month  due 
first  February  next.'' 

James  G.  Hood,  Statesville,  January  28,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  due  me  nothing  for 
services  rendered  as  deputy  collector  under  him,  and  that  I  have  always  receive 
my  full  wages  promptly  at  the  end  of  every  month  as  an  officer  of  the  government." 

George  F.  Brown,  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882:  "He  is  not  iiulebted  to  me 
in  any  sum  on  said  account,  all  moneys  due  me  having  been  promptly  jiaid  at  the 
close  of  each  month." 

R.  R.  Ray,  Charlotte,  January  28,  1872:  "  Collector  Mott  has  always  settled^with 
me  promptly,  antl  owes  me  nothing."  __' 

W.  H.  Hobson,  Jerusalem,  January  28,  1882:  "Have  always  received  my  salary 
promptly  and  regularly,  and  no  part  of  it  has  been  retained  at  any  time  for  any  purpose 
whatever." 

W.  H.  Stockton,  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882:  "I  have  received  every~ceut. 
due  me  for  mv  services  fiom  Collector  Mott." 


382  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

"W.  Fraley,  Williamsburg,  N.  C,  Jauuaiy  28,  1882  :  ''  Dr.  Mottdoes  lot  owe  me  aiij'- 
tliiiig." 

A.  M.  Xail,  Mocksville,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882 :  "  Dr.  Mott  is  due  me  nothing  and 
Las  always  been  very  prompt  in  my  pay  tlirougli  him,  but  I  have  an  account  in  the 
clerk's  office  of  Mr.  H.  C.  Cowles,  for  guarding  a  tobacco  factory  seized  by  an  agent  of 
the  revenue,  that  you  would  confer  a  great  favor  by  ordering  me  paid.  The  account  is 
ior28  days  during  last  June." 

T.  L.  Shields,  Monroe,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882  :  "  I  have  received  my  compensation 
promptly  up  to  the  1st  of  January,  1882,  except  for  a  few  days  in  the  latter  part  of 
June,  1881,  when  the  appropriation  for  jiay  of  storekeepers  and  gangers  run  short  for 
the  fiscal  year  ending  June  30,  1881. 

T.  A.  Meroney,  Mocksville,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882  :  "  Dr.  Mott,  collector  sixth  dis- 
trict, has  paid  me  for  all  services  rendered  to  the  United  States  as  storekeeper  and 
ganger,  and  at  this  time  there  is  one  month's  services  about  due,  but  my  pay  account 
has  not  yet  been  sent  in." 

Hugh  A.  Pence,  Newton,  N.  C,  January  23,  1882:  "  Dr.  Mott  has  paid  me  every 
dollar  dne  me  for  my  services  in  the  revenue  department." 

P.  W.  Jenkins,  Dallas,  Gaston  County,  N.  C,  TanuarySS,  1882:  "  I  have  always  re- 
ceived my  pay  to  the  last  cent,  and  i)romptly,  for  all  my  services." 

K.  .T.  Kennedy,  King's  Mountain,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  has  al" 
•ways  paid  me  every  cent  dne  me  for  services  due  me.  *  *  *  That  he  does  not  owe 
Tue  anything,  and  he  has  never  kept  back  one  cent  of  my  wages  at  any  time." 

G.  W.  Patterson,  Concord,  N.  C,  January  28,  1882 :  '*  Dr.  Mott  is  dne  me  $27,  for  which 
he  has  my  receipt  on  account  for  nine  days'  services  the  last  of  last  June  ;  he  informed 
me  that  the  appropriation  for  the  storekeepers  and  gangers  was  so  nearly  exhausted 
that  the  department  could  not  pay  the  money  until  the  government  made  further  ap- 
propriations. With  this  exception  Dr.  Mott  has  paid  me  promptly  all  the  money  due 
me  for  my  services,  and  he  has  paid  me  in  full  for  all  the  receipts  I  have  given  him." 

B.  V.  Beal,  Lincoluton,  N.  C,  January  29,  1882:  "I  have  always  received  my  full 
pay  for  all  services  that  is  due  me  from  him." 

L.  C.  Johnson,  Hamptonville,  N.  C,  ^January  30,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott,  collector, 
*     *     *     is  not  indebted  to  me  for  any  receipt  which  I  have  given  him." 

T.  A.  Kerley,  Taylorsville,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "Whether  or  not  Collector  Mott 
Is  iii(lel)ted  to  me  on  account  of  any  receipt  he  may  have  received  from  me?  I  will 
ba.\  lie  is  not." 

H.  Y.  Mott,  Mount  Monrue,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted 
<o  me  tor  any  services  rendered  as  an  officer  or  employ^  of  the  government." 

H.  {'.  Smipes,  Morganton,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "  Collector  Mott  has  paid  me  for 
jiiy  services     *     *     *     all  that  was  due  me." 

G.  A.  J.  Sechler,  China  Grove,  Rowan  County,  Nor<^h  C'arolina,  January  30,  1882: 
"  Dr   Mutt  lias  no  receipt  of  mine.     I  have  receivi'd  all  that  was  due  me  for  service." 

M.  C.  Mytrs,  Hamptonville,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "  Dr.  Mott  has  never  retained 
smy  moil'  y  that  has  been  due  me  for  services  as  IJ.  S.  S.  A.  G.,  therefore  he  is  not  due 
jMf  aiiylliiiig." 

W.  M.  llotfuian,  Dallas,  N.  C,  January  30,  18H2 :  "Dr.  J.J.  Mott  *  "  *  ha* 
]iri>iii|itly  paid  me  all  dues  and  demands  for  st-rvice  rendered  in  my  official  capacity." 

.J.  N.  Selzer, ,  January  :',(),  1882:    "I  have  received  promptly  from  Dr.  Mott 

♦•vcr.v  dollar  due  nie  for  services  as  an  otilicer  of  the  g<wernuient." 

W.  S.  (iougli,  Hamptonville,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "I  have  received  my  pay 
prnMi]it]y.  all  exc- pt  .'f27  for  last  June,  which  I  ex|Mc,t  to  get  whenever  there  is  aa 
apjinnn  i;irioii  maile  to  j)ay  Die  deficiency.  Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me  on  account 
4d  aii.\  rfciipi  wliatever." 

J.  \l.  Cline,  Catawba,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "  Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me  ou 
jUTimnt  of  any  leceipt  which  I. have  given  him  by  virtue  of  my  services." 

S.  P.  f-h'  riili,  liiiicolnton,  N.  C,  January  .30,  1882:  "  Tlic  collector  has  never  with- 
lield  my  clierUs,  and  I  lie  governnuMit  now  owes  me  notliing  except  tor  this  (.lanuary) 
nptitlli's  sfivicf.      Have  n-ceived  all  my  fees." 

L.  A.  Ileilig,  lleilig's  Mili.s,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "  Have  received  from  Dr.  Mott 
every  <.ollar  due  iuk  for  services  rendered." 

W.  Ski. Iniitre.  Mount  Holly,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  is  not  in- 
4I1O11MI  lo  1.  e  lor  any  s«r\  ices  done  l>y  me  »  »  «  nor  (Ui  any  receipt  that  1  have 
given  lo  liim." 

A.  ('.  Mond.iv,  Tooper's,  N.  ('.,  January  30,  )Hrt2:  "I  have  received  ;ill  money  duo 
uie." 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  383 

S.  M.  Morris,  Dallas,  Oaston  County,  North  Carolina,  January  30,  1882:  "I  havo 
received  from  tbo  collector  (Mott)  *  *  *  all  money  due  me  for  storekeeper  and 
ganger,  in  full  to  date." 

T.  H.  McNeely,  Morganton,  N.  C,  January  :?0,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  has  always 
paid  me  for  services  *  *  promptly  *  *  *  Is  not  indebted  to  me  on  account  of 
any  receipt  given  him." 

R.  Powell,  Morgantou,  N.  C  ,  January  30,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  has  always  paid  me  up 
promptly.     He  owes  me  nothing." 

Isaac  A.  Pearson,  Catawba,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to 
me  for  any  services  rendered  by  me  to  the  government." 

G.  W.  McLanghen,  Dallas,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  does  not  owe  me  any- 
thing for  my  services  since  I  have  been  in  the  employ  of  the  government,  or  on  account 
of  any  receipt  or  any  other  obligation." 

D.  C.  Pearson,  Morgantou,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "  He  is  due  me  nothing  on  such 
account,  and  never  was.  I  was  always  paid  promptly  and  in  full  for  my  services  as 
au  officer." 

.1.  T.  Sniitherman,  East  Bend,  N.  C,  .January  30,  1882:  "  Collector  ,T.  J.  Mott  is  not 
due  me  anything  for  services  rendered." 

J.  M.  Turner, ,  January  30, 1882:  "  I  havo  received  everything  that  is  due  me 

as  an  officer  or  employe  of  the  government,  except  for  the  last  ten  days  of  June,  1881, 
amounting  to  |27,  which,  I  was  officially  informed,  that  there  was  uo  appropriation." 

Mr.  Kimbroiight,  Smith  Grove,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  due  me  noth- 
ing, but  on  the  contrary  has  paid  me  promptly  at  the  expiration  of  each  month." 

EH  Best,  New  Stirling,  N.  il'.,  January  30,  1882:  "Collector  J.  J.  Mott  is  in  no  way 
indebted  to  me  for  any  services  *  »  *  jjor  for  anything  that  I  have  given  him  for 
my  position  that  I  now  hold." 

A.  A.  Hines,  Sweet  Home,  N.  C  ,  January  30,  1832:  "Dr.  Mott  *  *  *  is  not  in- 
debted to  me  on  any  account  whatever." 

J.  G.  Douglass,  Mount  Mourue,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  me  on  accouut  of  any  receipt  or  note  given  by  me." 

W.  F.  Holland,  King's  Mountain,  N.  C,  Jauuary  30,  1882:  "  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  owes  um 
jiothing,  with  the  exception  of  nine  days  in  June,  1881,  for  which  there  was  no  appro- 
priation." 

Wiley  S.  McKee,  Garibaldi,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  me  on  account  of  any  receipt  which  I  have  given  him  *  *  *  except  nine  days' 
service  rendered     *     *     *     for  the  month  of  June,  1881." 

L.  M.  Davis,  York  College,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882  :  "  I  have  uever  given  any  receipt 
to  Collector  Mott  for  any  of  my  wages  as  an  oflQcer  of  the  government  without  having 
received  the  full  amount." 

W.  B  Mott,  Mount  Mourne,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "  He  has  never  received  from 
me  any  such  receipt,  and  has  always  paid  me  the  last  dollar  due  me." 

C.  A.  Wilfoug,  Catawba,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "  Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  me  in  any  way,  and  I  have  always  received  my  money  promptly." 

N.  B.  England, ,  January  30,  1882  :  "  I  have  received  promptly  from  Dr.  Mott 

every  dollar  due  me  for  services  as  an  officer  of  the  government." 

A.  J.  Jenkins,  Dallas,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott,  collector,  has  paid  ma 
every  dollar  of  my  wages  ;  *  *  *  is  not  indebted  to  me  on  accou)it  of  any  receipt 
whatever." 

M.  M.  Teagne,  Marion,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "My  accounts  have  all  been  paid 
promptly  and  to  a  cent,  except  nine  days  in  Jam',  1881.  Two  accounts  were  made  out 
for  that  month  and  but  one  has  been  paid,  but  a  circular  letter  ex])laining  why  th» 
balance  could  not  be  paid  then  was  received." 

E.  W.  Pntnam,  Mount  Mourne,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "In  reply  to  your  inquiry 
as  to  whether  Collector  Mott  was  indebted  to  me  on  account  of  any  receipt  which  I 
have  given  him,     ►     *     *     I  would  answer  no." 

Joseph  Carswell,  Morgantou,  Jauuary  30,  1882:  "I  have  been  paid  very  promptly 
by  Collector  Mott  for  all  services  rendered  by  me." 

R.  C.  Bowles,  ,  January  30,  1882  :  "  J.  J.  Mott  has  paid  me  all  due  me  for  my 

services." 

Richard  Williams,  Morgantou,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882  :  "  I  have  received  my  pay 
for  all  the  service  that  has  been  allowed  me,  and  no  part  thereof  has  been  retained  by 
said  Collector  Mott." 

P.  J.  Rhyne,  Dallas,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882.  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  *  *  *  ,  I'ae  paid 
nie  for  my  services  as  United  States  storekeeper  anil  ganger  to  Jan.  1,  1882." 


384  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

I.  O.  Hart,  Lewisville,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "  Ct)llector  Mott  lias  always  paitl 
me  pnuctnally  lor  all  services  rendered. " 

8.  Angle,  Eagle  Mills,  N.  C,  January  :iO,  1882  :  "  Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me  one 
dollar  on  account  of  any  r<  ceipt  I  have  given  him.     He  has  ahvayspaid  me  promptly."" 

W.  R.  Rankin,  Garibaldi,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "J.  J  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  me  on  any  account  or  any  recei])t  I  have  given  him  •*  ""  **  except  nine  days'' 
service  rendered  in  the  month  of  June,  1881,  which  I  was  informed,  I  believe,  through 
your  office,  would  not  be  paid   until  there  was  an  axtpropriation  made  for  the  same.V 

J.  F.  Aydlotte,  Biitt'alo  Paper  Mill,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882;  "Dr.  Mott  is  not  in- 
debted to  uie  by  any  receipt  which  I  have  given  him  as  an  officer  or  employ^  of  the 
government." 

F.  G.  Thorpe,  Eagle  Mill,  January  30,  1881 :  "  J.  J.  Mott,  collector,  has  paid  me  in 
fall  for  all  the  receipts  I  have  signed." 

L.P.Henderson,  Morganton,  N.  C,  January,  1882:  "  Dr.  Mott,  collector,  *  *  ^ 
has  been  very  prompt  with  me." 

James  R.  Lewis,  Dallas,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882  :  "  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott,  collector,  *  *  - 
is  not  indebted  to  me  anything  on  account  of  any  receipt  given  for  service  rendered." 

J.  W.  C.  Long,  Catawba,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882  :  "  Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  me  in  any  way,  and  I  have  always  received  my  money  promptly." 

R.  G.  Patterson,  East  Bend,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "  Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  me  in  any  sum  or  account  of  any  receipt  that  I  have  given  him." 

Geo.  AV.  Williams,  Asheville,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882  :  "  I  have  received  every  dollar 
that  is  due  me." 

John  K.  Potts,  Htatesville,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "I  received  my  pay  monthly 
while  under  regular  assignment  as  deputy  collector  in  his  office;  also  further  that  he. 
Dr.  Mott,  never  required  of  me  a  receipt  for  anything  more  than  was  due  him  by 
virtue  of  his  office." 

M.W.  Jewett, ,  January  30,  1882  :    "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott     *     *     *     has  settled  with 

me  in  full  for  all  services  rendered  to  date." 

Jere  Smith,  Taylorsville,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "In  answer  to  an  inquiry  from 
your  office  of  the  26th  instant,  asking  me  to  state  explicitly  whether  Dr.  Mott  is  in- 
debted to  me  for  services  rendered  as  an  officer  or  employe  of  the  government,  I  an- 
swer he  is  not." 

Thomas  J.  Richman,  Henderson ville,  N.  C,  January .30,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  has  alway* 
very  promptly  forwarded  me  all  my  drafts  as  they  were  drawn,  and  has  never  had  my 
receipt  except  for  same  when  they  w^ere  forwarded  to  me." 

W.R.  Trull, ,  January  30,  1882  :  "  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  does  uot  owe  me  anything 

and  has  always  sent  me  my  pay     *     '     *     as  soon  as  it  was  due." 

J.  T.  Goodman,  Amity  Hill,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882  :  "  Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  me.     Has  been  very  i)rompt  in  his  jjayments  to  me." 

J.  P.  Murphy,  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882  :  "  Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me 
for  official  duties." 

8.  C.  Welch,  East  Bend,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882;  "I  have  received  all  of  my  pay 
'     *     *     up  to  January  I,  1882,  except  for  nine  days,  the  last  of  June." 

John  M.  Ilanna,  Gastonia,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "There  is  nothing  due  me  for 
services  rendered  *  *  *  only  for  the  last  nine  days  of  June,  1881,  which  1  receipted 
Collector  Mott  for,  and  I  learn  there  was  no  appropriation  for  services  rendered  at 
that  time." 

W.  A.Johnson,  Hani])tonville,  \.  ('.,  January  30,  1882  :  "  Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  me  on  anv  account  of  any  receipt  whatever." 

J.  >L  Arn'istrong,  (;aril)aidi,  N.  C,  January  30, 1882  :  "  Collector  Mott  does  not  hold 
any  receijjt  against  me  which  is  not  settled.    I  have  no  claims  against  him  whatever."' 

S.  R.  (Jndger,  Morganton,  N.  C,  January  31,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  uot  indebted  to- 
me on  account  of  any  receipt  which  1  have  given  him." 

I).  L.  Lr)wry,  County  Line,  N.  C,  .lanuary  31,  1>^82:  "  Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  me  for  any  seivic-es  i(5ndei'<!d  as  an  olticer  or  employd  of  the  government ;  my  dues 
Jiave  bei-n  ]>aid  otV  regularly  up  to  this  date." 

A.  D.  (ientry,  Haniittonville,  N.  C,  January  31,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  is  not  in- 
delited  to  me,  »  "  »  for  any  service  that  I  hav<>  rcMidered  *  *  "  nor  for  any  re- 
ceipt that  I  have  signed,  but  has  always  jiaid  me  up  promptly." 

I.  N.  Hays.  Miller's  Creek,  N.C.,  January  31,  IHri-J  :  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  has  paid  me 
promptly  for  my  services  as  storekeeper  and  gjinger." 

.1.  15.  Simontitn,  \Vilkesl>oro',  N.  C,  .lanuary  31,  18H2:  "  Collector  Mott  lias  always 
paid  me  for  my  Hervic<s  as  a  governmenl  olticer  ](roiiiptly  at  the  end  of  every  month's 
8ervi<e." 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  385 

J.  M.  SumriR'.rH,  Sinitli  (irove,  N.  C,  Jiimiary  :51,  1882:  "  Hi-  is  not  imlehted  to  iiie 
for  any  receipt  f^iveii  him." 

L.  r.  Stowe,  Dallas,  N.  C,  January  31,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott,  collector,  is  not  in- 
debted to  me  on  acconnt  of  any  receipt  which  I  have  given  him." 

L.  C.  Jennings,  Moravian  Falls,  ,  January  '.U,  1882  :   "  Dr.  Mott  has  paid  oft' 

all  my  accounts  against  the  government,  wlierein  I  have  given  him  reeei])tK.  except  the 
:iine  last  days  of  June,  1881.  Dr.  Mott  notitied  me  before  I  made  out  my  ]»ay  account 
for  same  that  he  had  only  funds  enough  on  hand  to  pay  up  to  the  :^()th  of  Jiine." 

E.  A.  Mi'.Ls,  East  Bend, ,  January  31,  1882:   "He  is  not   indebted  to  me.     He 

has  paid  me  up  very  wtdl." 

W.  H.  McCoy,  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  31,  188-2:  "I  have  receipted  for  and  re- 
ceived for  all  money  due  due  me  by  virtue  of  my  ottice,  through  I  )r.  Mott,  *  *  with 
the  excei>tion  of  a  small  receipt  of  $27  for  nine  days'  work  in  June,  1881,  which  lias 
not  come  into  his  haud,«." 

W.  C.  Myers,  Osbornville,  N.  C,  January  31,  1882:  "I  have  received  my  salary 
promptly  from  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  ever  since  I  have  been  in  the  service,  except  for  the 
nine  last  days  of  June,  1881." 

H.  H.  Martin,  Dallas,  N.  C,  January  31,  1882:  "I  can  say  positivcdy  that  I  have 
received  evei-y  cent  of  money  due  me  by  virtue  of  my  services  as  storekeeper  and 
ganger  of  this  district." 

L.  Moorow,  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  31,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  me  on  account  of  any  receipt  given  him  by  me.  *  *  *  Having  received  throuo-h 
Collector  Mott,  and  receipted  for  all  money  due  me  for  services  performed  by  me  up 
to  December  31,  1881,  with  the  exception  of  a  small  receipt  of  $36,  the  amount  due 
on  the  last  nine  days  of  my  June  account  for  1881." 

G.  W.  Sharpe,  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  31, 1882:  "Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  me  on  account  of  any  receipt  given  him  by  me.  »  *  *  Having  received  throu"h 
Collector  Mott,  and  receipted  for  all  money  due  me  for  services  performed  as  an  otHcer 
or  employe  of  the  government  up  to  December  31,  1881,  with  the  exception,  however 
of  a  small  receipt  of  $36,  the  amount  due  me  on  the  nine  last  days  of  my  June  ac- 
count for  1881." 

C.  A.Coleman,  Osbornville,  N.  C,  January  31,1882:  "I  have  received  my  salary- 
promi)tly  from  Dr.  Mott  ever  since  I  have  been  employed." 

J.  L.  Hewitt,  Newton,  N.  C,  January  31, 1882:  "All  claims  due  me  from  Dr.  Mott's 
office  as  a  storekeeper  and  gauger  has  been  duly  received  from  him  and  punctually  at 
that." 

L.  N.  Dulin,  Smith  Grove,  N.  C,  January  31,  1882 :  "  I  have  received  all  my  wa"-es 
from  Dr.  Mott  for  services  rendered  the  government  as  storekeeper  and  ganger*  he  is 
not  indebted  to  me  for  any  receipt  given  him  in  that  capacity." 

A.  I).  Cooper,  A8heville,N.  C,  January  31,  1882:  "Must  say  that  J.  J.  Mott  *  *  # 
is  not  indebted  to  me  on  account  of  any  receipts  I  have  given  by  virtue  of  my  ser- 
vices as  an  officer.     I  have  always  received  my  pay  promptly." 

W.  W.  Hampton,  Eagle  Mills,  N.  C,  January  31, 1882 :  "  Collector  Mott  is  not  due 
me  anything  on  account  of  any  receipt  that  I  have  given  him.  He  has  always  paid 
me  promptly." 

E.  H.  Davis,  Columbus,  N.  C,  January  31, 1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me 
on  account  of  any  receipt  given  him  for  services  rendered  as  an  ofticer  of  the  govern- 
ment." 

David  A.  Ramsay,  Salishury,  N.  C,  January  31,1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  »  *  * 
has  always  promptly  remitted  and  paid  to  me  all  money  due  me  for  services  rendered 
as  internal-revenue  storekeeper  and  gauger,  and  that  Dr.  Mott  is  not  dne  me  one  cent 
for  services  rendered." 

M.  A.  Wilkinson,  Newton,  N.  C,  January  31, 1882  :  "  I  have  received  all  money  due 
me  for  services  rendered  but  $27  for  the  last  nine  days  in  June,  1881." 

L.  A.  Peebles,  Advance,  N.  C.  January  31,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  has  paid  me  for 
all  of  my  service,  with  the  exception  of  $27,  for  June,  1881." 

O.  M.  Barkly,  Statesville,  N.  C,  January  31,  1882:  "I  have  always  received  my 
pay  promptly,  and  that  the  collector  does  not  owe  anything  at  all." 

W.  H.  Brown,  Wilkesborongh, ,  January  31, 1882  :  "Collector  J.  J.  Mott    *    *    » 

does  not  owe  me,  by  receipt  or  otherwise,  one  cent  of  wages  earned  by  me  as  an 
officer  of  the  government  in  said  district." 

J.  T.  Peden,  Wilkesborongh,  ,  January  31,  1882:  "He  is  not  indebted  to  me 

for  any  receipt  for  services  as  an  officer  or  otherwise." 

R.  .J.  Williams,  Rutherfordton,  ,  January  31,  1882:    "He  does  not  owe  me  a 

farthing,  but  promptly  pays  every  cent  that  the  government  allows  me  for  services 

S.  Mis.  116^^ — 25 


386  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

rendered;  the  only  instance  wherein  I  have  signed  any  receipt  and  not  received  pay 
was  for  eight  days'  services  as  storekeeper  and  ganger  last  June,  from  tlie  22d  to  the 
liOth  day  of  Jnne,  18ril." 

John  B.  Eaves,  Rutherfordton.  N.  C,  January  31,  1882:  "The  collector,  Dr.  Mott, 

*  *  *  has  paid  me  promptly  on  all  receii)ts  up  to  date.  I  have  an  account  liled. 
for  June,  1881,  from  the  21sl.  to  the  3(Jtli,  inclusive,  not  yet  paid." 

Peter  A.  Little,  Catawba,  N.  C,  January  30,  1882:  "I  can,  without  any  hesitancy, 
say  that  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  has  never  kept  out  of  my  services  auy  funds  for  any  purpose," 

J.  W.  Ramsay,  Marshall,  N.  C,  January  31,  1882:  "My  accounts  are  in  for  Novem- 
ber and  December,  for  wliich  I  have  not  yet  received  the  pay,  but  I  feel  no  uneasiness 
about  getting."' 

J.  R.  Henderson,  ^Yilkesborough,  N.  C,  January  31,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  in  no  way  in- 
debted to  me  for  my  services  to  the  government,  and  no  receipt  has  ever  been  given 
him  by  me  except  for  which  I  have  received  full  value." 

J.  T.  Hedrick,  TIedrick,  N.  C,  January  31,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me 
for  any  services  rendered  the  government.  He  has  always  paid  me  promptly  every 
mouth." 

M.  L.  Hoopei-,  Williamsburg,  N.  C,  January  31,  1882:  "The  collector  has  settled 
with  me  in  full  for  all  services  rendered  as  storekeeper  and  ganger  in  his  district." 

E.  Q.  Houston,  Mount  Monrne,  N.  C,  January  31,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  is  not  in- 
debted to  me  for  any  receipt  by  virtue  of  my  services  as  an  ofticer  or  employ6  of  the 
government." 

J.  L.  Rhyne,  Dallas,  N.  C,  :  "I  have  received  full  payment  for  all  receipts 

given  Di'.  J.  J.  Mott,  collector,  for  my  services." 

John  M.  Hauua,  ,  :  "Collector  Mott  is  not  due  me  anything  whatever." 

L.  A.  Mason,  Dallas,  N.  C, :  "Dr.  Mott  is  not  due  me  anything  for  services 

as  employe  in  the  revenue  service." 

S.  D.  Brown,  Hamptonville,  N.  C,  February,  1882 :  "  I  have  received  all  money  re- 
ceipted for  from  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott,  except  for  December,  1^81,  and  January,  1882.  As 
yet  I  have  not  been  qualified  on  my  pay  accounts  for  those  mouths,  and  think  I  will 
get  the  money  when  I  go  to  his  office  and  am  qualified. 

Jacob  Blevins,  Walnut  Hill,  N.  C, :  "  Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me 

on  any  account  whatever;  he  has  always  paid  me  promptly  and  have  given  him  no 
receipt  without  having  first  received  value  in  full. 

S.  Huft'raan,  Morganton,  N.  C,  February  1,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott,  collector,  is  not  in- 
debted to  me  on  account  of  any  receipt  I  have  given  whatever." 

A.  J.  Absher,  Mulberry,  N.  C,  February  1,  1882:  "There  is  nine  dollars  due  me  for 
the  three  last  days  of  June,  and  the  balance  of  my  checks  came  up  promptly." 

J.  S.  Jones,  Panther  Creek,  N.  C,  February  1,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  has  always 
paid  me  promptly  for  all  my  services  rendered  for  the  government." 

W.  C.  Shores,  Jonesville,  N.  C.  February  1.  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  »  *  *  is  not 
in  arrears  with  me  nor  never  has  been  since  I  have  been  employed  by  the  government." 

(i.  AV.  Crawford,  Marion,  N.  C,  February  1,  1882:  "I  have  received  *  *  *  all 
the  pay  due  me  lor  services  to  the  present  date,  except  $27  due  as  a  balance  on  pa,y 
for  tlic  iiioiitb  of  June,  1881,  the  delay  of  which  payment  is  understood  to  be  no  fault 
of  C<dlcct<)r  Mott's." 

J.  W.  Brown,  Charlotte,  N.  C  F(d)ruary  1,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  has  ])aid  me  every 
dollar  and  cent  that  he  owes  me." 

1',.  .lolmson, ,  February  1,  1882:  "I  hold  no  receipts  against  Dr.  J.  J.  ^Mott, 

iinr  never  have  at  any  time." 

A.  J.  Hand,  Mount  Holly,  North  Carolina,  February  1,  1882:  "Collectiu-  Mott  is  not 
indebted  to  me     *  *     as  1  ha\(^  never  rendtUHMl  any  services." 

v..  I..  Clnisman,  Columbus,  N.  ('.,  l''(d)ruary  1,  18!"2:  "  With  the  exception  of  montli 
of  .June,  \'^f*l,  I  have  rec(!!ved  all  payments  regularly.  I  believe  the  ai)propriation 
was  exliaustcd  for  that  nuuith." 

A.  B.  IJiituer,  Hall's  Ferry,  l'\'bruary  1,  1882:  "In  every  instance  without  a  single 
ex<;ep1ic/n  liave  received  my  salary  rignlarly  at  the  end  of  each  nu)nMi  in  full." 

D.  Mr-Ali»ine,  M((unt  Molly,  N.  ('.,  i'ebiuary  1,  1882:  "He  is  not  so  indebted  except 
for  the  nine  days'  services  as  storekeeper,  and  gangci-  for  the  last,  nine  days  of  the 
fiscal  year  ending  June  30,  IHH]." 

(J.  K.  Barnliaidt,  ,  Fel)ruary  I,  1^82:  "Dr.  Mott  does  not  owe  nu^  anything." 

(».  W.  Selzer,  (,'rowd('r's  Creek,  N.  ('.,  I''ebruary  1,  1HH2 :  "  He  is  not  so  indebted  to 
nic,  and  ib.it  In-  1i:in  in  all  cases  paid  luonijitly." 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  387 

N.  L.  Whitley,  Old  Fort,  N.  C,  Fcbniaiy  1,  1H82:  "Dr.  Mott  has  always  paid  me 
for  services  rendered." 

John  A.  Keener,  Poor's  Ford,  N.  C,  February  1,  188-2:  "  Iroceivcdall  of  my  cheeks 
due  me  from  Collector  Mott,  exeejit  my  Ajiril  clie<-k  for  1880;  amonntSlOO.  Collector 
Mott  ludd  that  cheek  towards  |)aying-  tlie  exi)ens(5  of  the  Ri^jiiblicaii  campaign  for 
th(!  Presidential  elei-tion  of  1880." 

W.  T.  Bailey,  Morganton,  N.  C,  February  1,  188;:^:  "I  have  received  from  the 
collector  the  money  due  me  for  my  services." 

J.  M.  Taylor,  East  P,end,  N.  C,  February  1, 1882 :  "  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott,  coUeetor,  has  paid 
me  everything  due  for  my  services,  excei/t  five  days'  services  from  2Uth  June  to  25tli, 
[for]  which  the  appropriation  was  exhausted." 

S.  L.  Davis,  Yadkiuville,  N.  C,  February  1,  1882  :  Dr.  Mott  *  *  •«  ]ias  paid  mo 
every  cent  that  is  due  me  for  my  services,  and  was  paid  promptly." 

J.  H.  Hauser,  Yadkinville,  N.  C,  February  1,  1882:  Collector  Mott,  *  *  »  has 
.always  paid  me  promi)tly  by  the  10th  of  each  succeeding  month  and  does  not  now  owe 
me  for  any  service,  except  for  twenty  days  in  January,  which  1  have  not  yet  had  time 
to  receive  "' 

S.  C.  Davis,  Huutsville,  N.  C,  February  1,  1882:  "My  wages  have  been  uniformly 
and  promptly  paid,  and  that  nothing  is  (lue  me." 

W.  D.  Mason,  Fork  Chnrch,  N.  C,  February  1,1882:  "I  did  sign  a  receipt  for 
twenty-two  days'  work,  |i88,  for  which  I  have  never  received  any  money,  he  asking 
all  his  storekeepers  and  gangers  to  contribute  one  month's  work  for  the  election  of 
General  Garfield." 

W.  R.  Ellis,  P^lbaville,  N.  C,  February  1,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me  on 
account  of  any  receipts  whatever." 

D.  F.  Shepherd,  Reddie's  River,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882:  "  He  has  always  settled  up 
very  fairly  with  me,  and  he  is  not  indebted  a  dollar  to  me  at  this  time." 

Joel  Cloiul,  Pearson,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882:  "All  my  money  as  storekeeper  and 
ganger  has  been  received  from  Collector  Mott." 

J.  F.  Somers,  Wilkesborough,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882:  "Ho  is  not  indebted  to  me 
for  any  receipt  for  such  services  to  this  date." 

B.  T.  Tedden,  Wilkes,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882  :  "I  will  state  that  he  is  not  indebted 
to  me  for  anj'  receipts  for  said  services  up  to  date." 

W.  F.  Furches,  Farmington,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882:  "I  have  not  had  but  one 
month's  work  (December,  1881),  for  which  I  authorized  my  brother  (J.  M.  Furches), 
who  is  a  clerk  in  Dr.  Mott's  oftice  at  Statesville,  to  receive  for  me,  which  I  jiresume 
he  did." 

M.  M.  Crume,  Booiiville,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882 :  "  Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me 
on  account  of  any  receipt  which  I  have  given  him." 

W.  S.  Arnold,  Hamptonville,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  is  not  due 
me  on  any  receipt  or  in  any  other  way." 

P.  M.  Nicks,  Hamptonville,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  *  *  * 
don't  owe  me  anything  for  my  services  *  *  *  on  account  of  any  receipt  what- 
ever." 

S.  C.  Anderson,  Boone,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882:  "Have  received  all  the  money  due 
me  for  services  i;endered     *     *     *     except  two  days  in  the  last  of  June,  1881." 

T.  A.  Atkins,  ,  February  2,  1882:  "I  can  say  Dr.  Mott     *     *     *     has  paid 

me  all  dues  promptly,  as  shown  by  his  receipts." 

Milton  A.  Holland,  Dallas,  N.  C,  February 2,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  is  notindebted 
to  me  in  consequence  of  any  receipt  which  was  given  to  him,  nor  any  other  account 
whatever." 

D.  P.  Allgood,  Cross  Roads  Church,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  *  *  * 
has  paid  me  for  all  my  services.'' 

J.  \y.  Clark,  Shelby,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882:  "J.  J.  Mott  *  *  *  has  paid  me 
for  services  rendered  *  *  *  in  full  to  the  31st  December,  1881,  and  for  jill  receipts 
given  him  for  same." 

William  B.  Lay,  ,  February  2,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  *  *  *  is  not  in- 
debted to  me  on  account  of  any  receipt  which  I  have  given  him  *  *  *  except  for 
nine  days' services  rendered  *  *  *  in  the  month  of  June,  A.  D.  1881,  which  1  was 
informed  would  be  paid  as  soon  as  an  appro[)riation  was  made  for  the  same." 

W.  H.  Rhyne,  Stanley's  Creek,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  owes  me 
nothing  on  account  of  any  receijit  or  in  any  other  way." 

G.  Z.  Pontdexter,  Richmond  Hill,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882:  "Dr.  J.J.  Mott  has  paid 
me  up  promptly." 


388  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

J.  A.  Lillington,  Marion,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  uje  cue  cent  for  services  performed.  On  the  otber  hand,  I  have  always  received  full 
pay  and  receipted  for  the  same." 

A.  T.  Grant,  Jerusalem,  N.  C,  February  2,  18H2:  "Dr.  J,  J.  Mott  *  *  *  is  not 
indebted  to  me  on  account  of  any  receipts  which  1  have  given  to  him  *  *  *  except 
for  the  last  nine  days  of  June,  1881."  , 

"William  Howard,  Mountain  Creek,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882:  "I  have  received  every 
dollar  for  my  services     *     *     *     except  nine  days'  services  in  last  June,  1881." 

W.  A.  AYilliams,  Morganton,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  owes  me 
nothing  for  my  services  as  United  States  storekeeper  and  gauu'er,  and  has  always  paid 
me  promptly.    He  is  not  indebted  to  me  on  account  any  receipt  given  him." 

Julius  Brittain,  Pearson,  N.  C,  February  2, 1882:  "All  my  money  for  services  *  *  * 
has  been  received  from  Collector  Mott." 

E.Wallace, ,  February  2,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  *  *  *  is  not  due  me  any- 
thing for  my  service  as  a  U.  S.  otidcer." 

H.  A.  Gillespie,  Charlotte,  N.  C,  February  2,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  has  jiaid  me 
very  promptly  for  all  services  rendered  under  him." 

T.  A.  Gill,  Statesville,  N.  C,  February  3,  1882:  "Have  received  all  the  pay  allowed 
as  storekeeper  and  ganger." 

H.  C.  Prenett,  Osbornville,  N.  C,  February  3,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to 
me  on  account  of  any  receipts  which  I  have  given  him." 

T.  L.  Jennings,  Jennings'  Mill,  N.  C,  February  3,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  does  not 
owe  me  a  dollar;  he  has  always  paid  me  when  I  presented  my  claims  at  his  office." 

Robert  Hawkins,  High  Knob,  N.  C,  February  3,  1882:  "Dr. Mott  *  *  *  has  paid 
for  all  services  which  has  been  done  by  me  for  (the)  government." 

J.  M.  Shaver,  New  Hope,  N.  C,  February  3,  1882:  "I  have  received  my  dues 
promptly." 

J.  A.  Matins,  Osboruville,  N.  C,  February  3,  1882:  "I  have  received  all  my  money 
for  my  service  from  Dr.  Mott." 

R.  S.  Bell,  Hamptonville,  N.  C,  February  3,  1882:  "I  have  received  from  Dr.  J.  J. 
Mott  all  moneys  receipted,  except  from  June  21  to  June  30,  1881,  deficient  money." 

W.  T.  Alexander,  Roaring  River,  N.  C,  February  3,  1882:  "Collector  J.  J.  Mott  has 
never  withheld  my  salary  or  any  part  thereof,  but  has  always  paid  me  the  full  amount 
regularly." 

J.  T.  Douglass, ,  February  3,  1882:  "He  has  paid  me  all  dues  at  the  proper 

time,  and  is  not  indebted  to  me." 

M.  T,  Roseman,  Conner,  N.  C,  February  3,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  *  *  *  he  is 
not  indebted,  has  settled  with  me  promptly." 

J.  A.  Clouse,  Smith  Grove,  N.  C,  February  3,  1882:  "I  have  received  from  Collector 
Mott  all  the  money  due,  except  a  part  of  last  June's  pay." 

D.  L.  Williams,  Smith  Grove,  N.  C,  February  3,  1882:  "  There  is  due  me  nothing 
by  way  of  receipt  ns  collector,  excejjt  a  part  of  last  June." 

B.  T.  Sebastian,  Round  Mountain,  N.  C,  February  3,  1882:  "Collector  J.  J. Mott  is 
not  indebtcMl  to  me  for  any  receipts  given  to  him.  *  *  *  He,( Mott)  has  forwarded 
all  my  checks  promptly  after  the  close  of  each  day." 

A.  H.  Daniel,  Jennings'  Mill,  N.  C,  February  3,  1882:  "Can  safely  swear  that  Dr. 
Mott  *  *  *  never  at  any  time  asked  me  for  or  kept  back  any  of  my  wages  for  any 
purpose." 

Z.  T.  Rutlcdge,  Cross  Roads  Church,  N.  C,  February  3,  1882:  "i:)r,  J.  J.  Mott 
*     •     *     is  not  indel)ted  to  me  in  any  way  for  services  rendered." 

S.  B.  Harding,  Huutsville,  N.  C,  February  3,  1882:  "My  wages  have  been  paid 
prompt  when  due." 

S.  S.  Jennings,  Mulberry,  N.  C,  February  3,  188"i  :  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  nie  on  no  receipt  whatever." 

John  M.  ]{rown,  Mull>crry,  N.  C.,  February  3,  1KM2.  "I  have  never  receipted  Dr.  J. 
J.  Molt  lor  none  of  my  pay  that  was  due  me  from  his  oflice." 

.hiiiitsR.  Davis,  Statesville,  F<!l)ruary  3,  1882:  "  Collector  J.  J.  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  UK-  for  services  rendered  in  his  district  as  Unitc^l  States  storekeeper  and  ganger, 
and  I  liave  r(,M'eived  my  i)ay  for  snch  services,  l)iit  I  (daini  that  tlie  g()V(^rnment  is  in- 
deliled  to  nic  for  services  rendeied  as  a  r:(id(!r  before  tlie  regular  force  was  placed  on 
duty,  in  whicli  tiie  govciiinicnt  paid  my  traveling  exix'uses,  exce]»t  the  last  lour 
raids  I  assihted  in,  in  wliicli  I  I'liiuislicd  my  own  iiorse  iind  paid  my  own  expl^nses> 
a  mi  Hinting  to  .'JHiIJ,  making  no  charge  for  self  and  horse  ;   this  was  in  '77." 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  389 

J.  C.  Snllivau,  Yadkiiivillo,  N.  C,  February  4,  18S2:  "Collector  Mott  ia  uot  due 
mo  anything  on  account  of  any  receipt,  aiul  lias  alwayw  paid  nie  promptly." 

R.  R.  Reid,  Olin,  N.  C,  February  4,  IH-^i  :  "  Dr.  Mott  has  8igued  and  delivered  my 
checks  for  each  month's  work  regularly." 

M.  W.  Vestal,  Chestnut  Ridge,  N.  C,  February  4,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  has  always 
been  prompt  to  pay  over  all  money  due  me." 

R.  W.  Woodrutt',  Jouesville,  N.  C,  February  4,  18r52 :  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  has  always 
been  prompt  to  pay  over  all  money  due  mo." 

13.  O.  Morris,  Fork  Church,  N.  C,  February  4, 1882:  "Dr.  Mott  has  always  paid  mc 
promptly  all  the  money  due." 

H.  E.  Shore,  Shore,  N.  C,  February  4,  18c:2:  "He  is  not  (indebted  to  me).  My 
accounts     *     *     *     have  all  been  pr()mi)tly  remitted." 

W.  P.  Parks,  Williamsburg,  N.  C,  February  4,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  has  always  signed 
and  sent  me  mj^  checks  for  each  month's  work  regularly." 

A.  M.  Salmons,  Zion,  N.  C,  February  4,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  due  mo  nothing  as 
storekeeper  and  ganger." 

S.  A.  Hoover,  Statesville,  N.  C,  February  4,  1882:  "Dr.  .1.  .1.  Mott,  collector,  is  not 
indebted  to  me  on  account  of  any  receipt  which  I  have  given  to  him  »  •  »  ^.^. 
cept  for  nine  days  for  the  month  of  June,  1881." 

D.M.  Haithcox,  February  4,  1882:  "Have  received  of  Dr.  Mott  all  money  due  me 
for  my  service,  except  for  the  last  nine  days  in  June,  1881,  which  I  suppose  I  will 
get  as  soon  as  Congress  provides  it." 

.7.  F.  Green,  Easttield,  N.  C,  February  4,  1882 :  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  *  •  *  has  paid 
promptly  to  .January,  1882." 

R.  K.  Edwards,  Roaring  River.  N.  C,  F'ebruary  4,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  has  never 
retained  any  part  of  my  pay,  or,  so  far  as  I  know,  attempted  to  retain  any,  nor  never 
has  iutimated  such  a  thing  to  me." 

A.  Huffman,  Pearson,  N.  C,  February  4, 1882:  "  (Collector  Mott)  he  is  not  indebted 
to  me;  he  has  paid  me  for  all  my  services." 

R.R.Lowe,  Olin,  N.  C,  February  4,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  *  *  *  has  always 
been  very  prompt  to  forward  all  the  checks  due  me  for  services." 

H.  M.  Brooks,  Glade  Creek,  N.  C,  February  .5,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  *  *  »  is 
due  me  nothing  for  work  done.     *     *     *     jje  hiis  paid  me  promptly." 

M.  Cassterens,  Jouesville,  N.  C,  February  5,  1882:  "J.  J.  Mott  *  *  *  is  uot  in- 
debted to  me  for  any  receipts  signed  by  me,  nor  never  has  been  since  I  have  been  em- 
ployed by  the  government." 

J.  F.  Mnudy,  Denver,  N.  C,  February  6,  1882 :  "  Have  received  from  collector  pay- 
ment in  full  for  all  service  rendered  by  me." 

G.  A.  Barkley,  Denver,  N.  C,  February  6,  1882  :  "  Have  received  from  Dr.  Mott  pay- 
ment in  full  for  all  services  rendered  by  mo  *  *  *  with  the  exception  of  nine  days 
during  the  month  of  June,  1881." 

N.  H.  Farmington,  February  6,  1882:  "Dr.  J.J.  Mott  *  »  *  is  not  duo  (me)  any- 
tliiug;  has  paid  me  for  my  services." 

J.  M.  Riggs,  Statesville,  N.  C,  February  6,  1882:  "Collector  J.  J.  Mott  has  never 
failed  to  pay  me  promptly.'' 

A.  C.Bryan,  Trap  Hill,  N.  C,  February  6, 1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  *  *  *  has 
promptly  paid  me  in  full  *  *  *  for  my  services  as  an  officer  under  his  employ- 
ment." 

A.  Higgius,  Dysortville,  N.  C,  February  6,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me 
one  farthing,  nor  has  it  ever  been  intimated  by  the  collector  or  his  subordiuates  that 
I  was  due  him  anything  on  account  of  my  services." 

G.  M.  Sitzer,  Salisbury,  N.  C,  February  6,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me 
oue  cent  on  any  account." 

F.  Caldwell,  Sherrill's  Ford,  N.  C,  February  6,  1882:  "Have  received  from  Dr. 
Mott  payment  in  full  for  all  services  rendered  by  me." 

A.  F.  Pack,  Fork  Church,  N.  C,  February  6, 1882:  "  Dr.  Mott  has  paid  me  promptly 
every  cent  ever  due  me." 

M.  Garwood,  Fork  Church,  N.  C,  February  6,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  has  always  been 
punctual  to  jtay  me  up,  except  one  check,  which  he  kept,  he  said,  for  election  pur- 
poses." 

Lawson  E.  Davis,  Lewis  Fork,  N.  C,  February  6,  1882:  "  Dr.  Mott  *  _  *  *  is  not 
due  anytliing  to  me  for  my  services  *  *  *  directly,  indirectly,  or  in  any  other 
way,  but  has  forwarded  the  full  amount  for  my  services  from  time  to  time  in  due 
season." 


300  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

J.  W.  Gray,  Statesville,  N.  C,  February  6,  1882:  "J.  J.  Mott,  collector,  has  paid 
mc  all  that  was  due  me  for  services  rendered  to  the  government  in  my  official  capacity 
as  an  officer." 

J.  P.  Stacy,  Morganton,  N.  C,  Felirnary  fi,  1882:  "Have  received  my  compensa" 
tion  regularly,  and  that  Dr.  Mott  owes  me  nothing,  only  for  live  days'  work  in  June, 
1881." 

J.  Y.  Mclntire,  Sandy  Plains,  N.  C,  February  6,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  *  *  *  is 
not  indebted  to  me  on  account  of  any  receipt  given  him  by  me  for  services  rendered 
the  government,  except  the  one  sent  in  for  the  last  month,  which  1  have  no  doubt 
■will  meet  with  prompt  attention." 

L.  AV.  Sabastain,  Milberry,  N.  C,  February  6, 1882:  "  (Dr.  Mott)  he  is  not  indebted 
to  me  for  any  receipts  for  services  rendered  to  date." 

H.  M.  Rhyme,  Dallas,  N.  C,  February  6,1882:  "Have  received  my  pay  regularly 
every  mouth  since  I  liave  been  iu  the  service." 

AVm.  C.  Douglass,  Trap  Hill,  N.  C.  February  6, 1882  :  "J.  J.  Mott,  collector,  is  not  in- 
debted to  me  any  ;  he  has  paid  me  promptly." 

L.  L.  Green,  Boone,  N.  C. ,  February  6, 1882 :  "  Dr.  Mott  has  never  retained  any  part  of 
my  wages,  and  that  he  is  not  due  me  anything  on  account  of  any  receipt  given  him." 

W.  F.  Martin.  Hayesville,  N.  C,  February .6, 1882 :  "  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  has  paid  me  all  that 
was  due  me  to  the  26th  of  January,  1882." 

J.  L.  Ladd,  Clingman,N.  C,  February  6, 1882:  "  (Collector  Mott)  he  isiiot  due  me  any- 
thing on  account  of  any  receipt  that  I  have  given  him."         * 

W.  C.  G.  Hendrix,  Smith  Grove, N.  C,  February  6,1882:  "Have  received  promptly 
from  J.  J.  Mott  *  *  *  niy  pay  for  services  rendered  *  *  *  excejjt  for  a  portion 
of  one  month  for  -which  the  money  appropriated  was  iusufficieut ;  *  *  »  time  re- 
ferred to  was  May  or  June,  1881." 

A.G.Myers,  Statesville,  N.C.,  February  7, 1882:  "(Dr.  Mott)  *  *  *  has  paid  me 
every  dollar  that  the  government  was  due  according  as  the  law  directs." 

"W.  F.  Hoots,  Yankluville,N.  C,  February  7, 1882:  "Dr.  Mott  *  *  *  has  paid  me 
for  all  services  rendered  by  me  to  the  government." 

J.  D.  Somers,  Statesville,  N.  C,  February  7,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  has  paid  me  for  each 
and  every  day's  work  according  as  the  law  directs." 

S.  S.  Bell,  Hunting  Creek,  February  7,1882:  "He  has  been  very  i^rompt  in  paying 
me." 

T.  Templeton,  Jennings' Mills,  February  7,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to 
me  on  account  of  any  receipts  which  I  have  given  him  as  a  U.  S.  officer." 

"\Vm.  M.  Moore,  Bnrusville,  N.  C,  February  8,  1882:  "Have  received  all  the  checks 
as  they  were  issued  at  Washiugton  ;  have  received  every  cent  receipted  for  by  me  ; 
have  paid  no  charge  or  discount;  neither  has  any  been  asked  for." 

J.  Q.  A.  Bryan,  Trap  Hill,  N.  C,  February  8, 1882 :  "  Have  always  been  paid  punctu- 
ally, and  in  full." 

A.  D.  Moore,  Statesville,  N.  C,  February  8,  1882:  "(Dr.  Mott)  he  has  not  taken  one 
cent  of  my  wages." 

E.  Staley,  Dellaplane,  N.  C,  February  8,  1882 :  "  I  got  all  my  checks  from  the  office 
as  tliey  came  due;"  I  give  Dr.  Mott  no  receijits  in  any  way." 

S.  P.  Smith,  Hunting  Creek,  N.  C,  February  8,  1882:  "My  accounts  have  always 
been  paid  promptly  by  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott." 

J.  L.  Wliite,  ,  Februarys,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me  for 

any  work  I  have  done.     I  have  received  full  value  for  all  the  work  I  have  done." 

L.  S.  Bcnbow,  Gn^enboro,  N.  C,  February  8,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  mo 
on  account  of  anj'  receipt  given  him  as  an  officer  or  employe^." 

R.  J.  Hennessa,  Morganton,.  N.  C,  F(d)ruary  8,  1882:  "Have  I)cen  promi)tly  paid  by 
Collector  Mott  for  all  my  services,  except  a  few  days  of  June,  1881." 

O.  B.  Hol(oml)e,  [Jtth-  (,'reck,  N.  C,  February  8, 18H2:  "  I  claim  that  Collector  Mott 
owes  me  ninety-six  dollars  for  scirviccs  rendered  at  the  distilling  warehouse  of  James 
Hensley,  No.  1711,  in  sixtli  (lisfrict.  North  (;arolina,  iu  tlu^  month  of  Fel)ruary,  1881. 
Tlir  distiller  did  not  operate  liut  one  or  two  days  iu  that  month,  hut  1  was  kept  there 
oil  duty  during  the  whole  month  J>y  order  of  the  depiil.v  ('(dleetor  in  cliargi^  to  wit,  W. 
K.  'i'riill.     At  the  distance!  oC  !«  miles  from  my  home  and  from  all  other  employment." 

A.  P.  Coldiron,  Jellerson,  N.  ('.,  I'eliniary  t),  1882:  "  Dr.  ■).  J.  Mott  has  paid  me  up 
promptly  so  far." 

.1.  W.  I'edeii,  CiM  l.iiiiirl  (;;ip,  N.  ('.,  I'el)iiiary  '.),  1HH2:  "Dr.  Molt  never  retained 
any  money  due  me  tor  iiiv  sei  \  ices,  iieiilier  hiive  I  ever  given  him  a  receipt,  and  I 
never  hav(!  been  called  on  (or  a  cenl  since  I  liiive,  been  in  the  revenue." 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  391 

H.  L.  Howell,  Mnrpliy,  N.  C,  February  10,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  i^uot  indebted  to 
me  by  any  receipt  wliicli  I  have  given  him  by  virtue  of  my  office.  I  gave  him  my 
check  for  .July,  lri80,  for  campaign  i)nri)oses,  and  my  A])ril  c^heck  for  the  year  1881:  ho 
ia  holding  it  for  J.  M.  Taylor's  deficiency.  He  said  I  had  been  reiiorted  to  his  office 
that  I  was  the  cause  of  deficiency,  and  said  he  was  going  to  hold  it  until  the  matter 
was  investigated,  and  I  have  asked  him  for  an  investigation  and  lias  not  l>i-en  one  yet. 
I  have  not  received  my  Decemlier  check  for  1H81.  My  January  check,  1882,  has  uot 
had  time  to  reach  my  office  yet." 

Jonathan  Wagoner,  ,  February  10,  1882:  "The  nine  last  days  of  June,  1881, 

is  all  the  receipts  that  I  have  not  got  paid  for  up  to  January,  1hh>." 

P.  A.  Lomax,  P:ikin,  N.  C,  February  11,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  is  not  imlebted  to 
me  on  account  of  any  receipt  which  I  have  given  him  *  »  "  except  for  service 
rendered  from  21st  to  30th  of  June,  1881,  inclusive." 

A.  Magberry,  York,  N.  C,  February  11,  1882:  "Have  received  my  wages  in  full- 
*     *     *     I  have  no  receipt  against  Collector  Mott." 

J.  B.  Shelton,  Denver,  N.  C,  February  11,  1882;  "Have  received  in  full  from  Dr. 
J.  J.  Mott  all  the  money  due  me  for  services  as  revenue  officer." 

A.  B.  Gillespie,  Charlotte,  N.  C,  February  12,  1882:  "Collector  Mott  has  always 
settled  with  me  promptly." 

J.  "VV.  Williams,  Statesville,  N.  C,  February  13,  1882:  "He  always  pays  me  up 
promptly." 

W.  B.  March,  Advance,  N.  C,  February  14,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  *  *  *  owes 
me  nothing  whatever  foi"  service.     I  have  always  been  promptly  paid  in  full." 

L.  P.  Ward,  County  Line,  N.  C,  February  14,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  does  not  owe  me 
any  money  on  account  of  any  receipt  given  him  for  services  rendered,  to  the  gov- 
ernment." 

A.  J.  Burch, -,  February  1.5,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  has  at  no  tune,  nor  in  any  way, 

withheld  or  retained  any  part  of  my  salary  as  storekeeper  and  ganger. 

E.  Dyer,  Reddies  River,  N.  C  ,  February  15,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  has  settled  all  the 
claims  according  to  my  re(iuisition  for  services.  I  have  not  receipted  Dr.  Mott  for 
any  moneys  due  me  as  an  official." 

A.  Bandy,  Clinesville,  N.  C,  February  IG,  1882:  "He  is  indel)ted  to  me  for  store- 
keeper and  gauger  nine  days  in  the  mouth  of  June,  1881,  at  Jji3  per  day,  !|29.00." 

W.  L.  Webster,  Nattla,  N.  C,  February  17,  1882:  "  Dr.  Mott  or  some  one  else  owes 
me  $27  for  the  month  of  June,  1881.  I  was  paid  up  to  the  21st,  and  there  is  nine  days' 
services  in  the  month  of  June  that  I  have  uot  received." 

T.  Long,  Huntsville,  N.  C,  February  21,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me." 

M.  B.  Crisp,  Brasstown,  N.  C,  February 23,  1882:  "I  do  hereby  certify  (that)  Col- 
lector Mott  has  paid  me  all  that  was  due  me  for  service  as  storekeeper  and  gauger  in 
the  sixlh  collection  dist.,  N.  C,  up  to  the  18th  of  January,  1882." 

F.  M.  Adams,  Hay  Meadow,  N.  C,  February  28,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  has  paid  me  all  that 
is  due  me  for  services  so  far  as  I  have  receipted." 

J.  M.  Dickey,  Hot  House,  N.  C,  March  2, 1882:  "  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  has  paid  me  all  that  I 
have  receipted  him  for." 

P.  F.  Langenour,  Baltimore,  Md.,  March  2, 1882  :  "My  salary  *  *  *  *  has  always 
been  paid  promptly  by  Collector  Mott,  generally  by  the  20th  of  the  month  succeeding 
the  one  for  which  it  was  due,  with  the  following  exceptions  :  the  .Tune  salary  for  1880 
was  not  paid  till  in  the  spring  of  1881,  the  last  nine  davs  of  June,  1881,  are  yet  unpaid, 
both  cases  resulting  from  lack  of  sutficient  approjjriations,  as  you  well  know." 

A.  Groner,  Dallas,  N.  C,  March  18, 1882  :  "He  owes  me  nothing  on  receipts  signed  by 
me  as  an  officer  or  employe  of  the  government." 

W.  J.  Patterson,  Morganton,  N.  C,  March  18,  1882:  "I  have  received  my  compen- 
sation regular,  and  Dr.  Mott  owes  me  nothing." 

N.  B.  Hampton,  Columbus,  N.  C,  March  18,1882:  "I  have  received  all  my  receipts 
fi'om  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott,  collector,  except  a  portion  of  last  June,  and  that  was  caused  by  the 
appropriation  not  b^ing  large  enough  to  pay  United  States  storekeepers  and  gangers 
lor  that  month,  and  that  only  amounted  to  about  seven  days." 

C.  T.  Hernan,  Taylorsville,  N.  C,  March  20, 1882  :  "Collector  Mott  is  indebted  to  me 
on  account  of  my  receipt  which  I  gave  him  for  the  remaining  nine  days  of  June,  from 
the  20th  to  the  3()th ;  when  the  appropriation  is  made  I  will  get  it;  but  no  other  is  ho 
indebted  to  me  for." 

F.  W.  Sharpe,  Sweet  Home,  N.  C,  March  20, 1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me  ou 
accouwt  of  services  rendered  the  government,  or  any  account  whatever." 


392  COLLI^'TION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

R.  J.  Williams,  Rutherford  ton,  N.  C,  March  20, 1882:  "  He  does  not  owe  anything  to 
me." 

A.P.Murdock,Statesville,N.C.,  March  20,1882:  "Collector  Mott  has  always  paid 
me  promptly  for  all  services,  except  a  small  I)alance  for  June,  1881,  which  he  did  not 
have  in  his  hands,  but  will  so  soon  as  he  gets  it." 

J.  B.Howell,  State8ville,N.C.,  March  21,  1882  :  "J.  J.  Mott  *  *  *  is  not  indebted 
in  any  measure  to  me  for  services  rendered." 

John  A.  Keener,  Poor's  Ford,  N.  C,  March  22, 1882:  "  My  letter  dated  February  1  to 
you,  in  answer  to  yours  *  *  *  ,  I  desire  to  state  that  I  ought  to  liave  said  that  the 
check  for  April,  1880,  amount  $100,  was  used  by  Dr.  Mott  for  the  campaign,  and  that 
was  by  my  order,  and  be,  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott,  now  holds  an  order  for  the  same.  I  ask  that 
this  be  substituted  for  my  letter.  It  is  .duo  the  collector  that  it  should  be  done. 
At  the  time  I  wrote  the  letter  I  had  no  idea  that  my  letter  would  be  construed  as  I 
understand  that  it  has — that  the  collector  used  the  check  without  my  consent." 

J.  S.  Call,  Wilkesborough,N.C.,  March  23,1882:  "He  is  not  indebted  to  me;  I  have 
been  paid  my  dues  up  to  the  1st  of  March,  1882,  except  the  last  nine  days  of  June,  1881." 

F.  P.  Axley,  Murphy,  N.  C,  March  23,  1882:  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of  the  sixth 
district  of  North  Carolina,  is  not  indebted  to  me  on  account  of  any  receii)t  which  I 
have  given  him  by  virtue  of  my  service  as  an  official  or  employed  of  the  government." 

J.  S.  Hewitt,  Newton,  N.  C,  March  23,  1882  :  "  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  has  paid  all  claims  that 
I  receipted." 

J.  M.  Privett,  Trap  Hill,  N.  C,  March  23,  1882:  "Dr.  Mott  has  paid  me  up  every- 
thing he  is  due  me." 

Henry  A.  Moss,  Marble,  N.  C,  March  24, 1882  :  "  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  is  not  due  me  any- 
thing ;  have  been  paid  promptly     *     »     *     for  all  services  done." 

C.  I.  Smith,  Wilkesborongh,  N.  C,  March  25, 1882  :  "  Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me 
by  any  receipt  given  to  him." 

D.  M.  Pnett, ,  March  2.5, 1882:  "J.  J.  Mott,  collector,     *     »     *     paid  me  every 

cent  that  was  due  and  that  1  receipted  for." 

Samuel  H.  Johnson,  Zioi),N.  C,  March  25,1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted  to  me 
for  any  services." 

N.  H.  Farrington, ,  March  25, 1882 :  "Dr.  J.  J.  Mott     »     *     *     has  paid  me 

for  all  my  services." 

J.  L.  Ladd,  New  Castle,  N.  C,  March  25, 1882:  "  Elijah  Ladd,  U.  S.  ganger,  is  dead, 
but  we  can  safely  say  that  Collector  Mott  paid  him  all  dues  promptly." 

Giles  Hntchins,  Conrads,  N.  C,  March  25, 1882  :  (Dr.  J.  J.  Mott)  "  ho  owes  me  noth- 
ing;  has  paid  me  everything  due  me  from  the  government." 

A.  "Wiles,  Mulberry,  N.  C,  March  26, 1882  :  (Dr.  Mott)  "  he  is  not  indebted  to  mo  for 
any  such  receipt  or  otherwise.  Have  received  my  dues  from  the  government  for  all 
receipts,  save  and  except  ten  days  of  last  June,  which  I  presume  has  not  been  paid.'' 

Lee  W.  Williams,  Rutherrordton,N.C.,  March  28, 1882:  "Dr.  Mott  is  not  indebted 
to  me  on  account  of  service  as  an  employe  of  the  government." 

James  C.  Setzer, ,  March  28, 1882:  "  I  have  received  my  salary  regularly  and 

promptly  each  month." 

R.  A.  Marshall,  Statesville,  N.  C,  April  3, 1882  :  "  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott  *  *  *  is  not  in- 
debted to  me  on  any  account." 

H.  Hayes,  Wilkesborough,  N.  C,  April  7, 1882  :  "  i;)r.  J.  J.  Mott  has  paid  nu^  promptly 
for  all  my  services  in  the  revenue  department." 

Alexander  W.  Bell,  New  Castle,  N.  C,  April  8, 1882  :  "I  have  received  all  money  due 
me  from  tin!  collector." 

T.  F.  Holcoml),  Hampton ville,  N.  C,  Ai)ril  H,  1882:  "Dr.  Motfc  has  paid  me  for  every 
month  that  I  have  charg(!il  the  government  for  services  as  storekeepi^r  and  ganger, 
cxc(!pt  (he  j)ay  du(»  me  for  the  month  of  August,  IHSO,  which  was  |H4.  I  had  some 
time  ]irc\i()ns  icccivi'd  a  letter  froiu  the  collector,  asking  uu^  to  conti'ibute  for  cain- 
j»aigii  purjiosi-H;  this  hitter  was  handed  me  l)y  (he  deputy  collector,  J.  C.  Sullivan; 
h(»  also  said  if  I  was  disposi^d  to  coiitril)ute,  that  h(»  had  blank  checks,  that  I  could 
Hign  one,  aud  Dr.  AMott,  would  see  what  our  parts  would  be,  and  (ill  out  the  blank 
check  widi  my  part  of  the  fund.  I  signed  th«<  cheek,  and  the  dejtnty  collector,  J.  C. 
Sullivan,  informed  nw!  that  tin*  monc^y  due  me  for  the  month  of  Augus(r,  1880,  was 
kept  on  that  blank  <-heek  ;  taking  this  tr)  be  true,  1  was  satisli<'d,  being  willing  to 
do  my  jiart.  I  have  done,  considerable  service  in  helping  the  'le])uty  collecior,  J. 
(J.  Sullivan,  to  pn(  down  Idockading,  tor  whi<'h  F  in-ver  made  out  any  pa^-account, 
being    told    l>y    him   that    the,    goNcrninent,   wonld    not    allow    nn\   any   pay    tor  extra 

HITVicCH." 

J.  K.  Hendnx,  lllk ville,  April  10,  1HH2:  "ColhM^tor  Mott  is  not  iinlebted  to  me  for 
anj'  Hcr vices." 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  393 

Q.  1  want  to  ask  you  in  regard  to  some  of  your  officers  drawing  pay 
in  two  capacities  at  the  same  time — double  pay,  as  it  lias  been  called. 
For  instanc(^,  a  de[»uty  is  shown  here  to  have  <lrawn  pay  as  a  ganger, 
and  at  the  same  time  he  was  a  depnty;  Avill  you  state  if  that  was  ])er- 
mitted  at  the  time  by  the  department? — A.  I  understood  it  to  be  per- 
mittc^d  by  the  dei)artment. 

Q  That  was  bac^k  in  1872  or  1873,  was  it  not? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that 
was  in  the  early  history  of  the  scrvicje. 

Q.  Before  there  was  a  change  in  the  law — before  Congress  had  legis- 
lated on  the  subject — that  is,  prior  to  1870? — A.  Yes,  sir;  after  1873 
there  was  no  instance  of  it  in  my  district.  I  had  not  kept  up  with  tin? 
law  in  regard  to  it,  and  did  not  know  there  was  any  law  covering  the 
case.  Mr.  Crane,  the  revenue  agent,  and  others,  told  me  that  it  had 
been  done  in  Virginia,  and  I  also  heard  it  had  been  done  during  Wiley's 
administration. 

Q.  The  accounts  were  passed  by  the  department  at  the  time? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  that  Mr.  Taylor,  the  First  Comptroller  of  the  Treas- 
ury, held  that  it  was  legal? — A.  I  do  not. 

Q.  The  Commissioner  said  they  changed  that.  Did  the  duties  per- 
formed by  these  oflicers  conflict  with  their  other  duties? — A.  No,  sir; 
not  in  the  case  in  my  district,  and,  as  I  understood  it,  it  had  not  else- 
where. The  offlcer,  as  I  stated  yesterday,  if  I  remember  rightly,  policed 
around  in  his  travels  between  the  distilleries. 

Q.  And  he  conld  perform  the  duty  of  ganger  without  conflicting  with 
his  duty  as  depnty? — A,  Yes,  sir.  There  was  a  great  deal  of  illicit 
traffic  in  wagons  at  that  time — a  great  deal  of  their  running  into  our 
town  at  Statesville.  There  was  a  rectifying  establishment  there,  and  it 
was  thought  they  were  being  famished  by  illicit  distillers  from  the 
mountain  sections  around,  and  the  oflicer  was  frequently  employed  at 
uight  in  watching  around  looking  after  these  wagons,  for  the  illicit 
whisky  that  came  into  the  town  for  sale  would  come  in  at  night.  I  know 
it  was  the  custom  in  Salisbury,  and  in  the  towns  around  where  we  had 
these  deputies,  to  have  them  look  out  for  such  things  at  night. 

Q.  And  they  could  perform  Uie  ofdce  of  ganger  without  conflicting 
with  those  duties? — A.  Yes,  sir;  a  man  could  go  to  a  distillery  and 
gauge  a  considerable  amount  of  whisky,  and  when  through  with  that 
distillery,  he  could  go  to  another,  eight  or  ten  miles  away,  and  do 
more  gauging,  and  in  his  travels  he  might  meet  \vith  one  of  these  to- 
bacco or  wliisky  wagons  passing  on  the  road. 

Q.  And  then  he  Avas  discharging  his  duty  as  a  deputy? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
This  is  what  I  understood  at  the  time.     That  is  how  it  came  about. 

Q.  The  pay  of  these  gangers  was  a  per  cent,  on  the  amount  gauged  ? — 
A.  There  were  fees,  I  think. 

Q.  Were  the  amounts  for  gauging  sent  directly  by  the  ganger  to  the 
Commissioner's  office  here  ?— A.  Yes,  sir;  he  made  out  his  accounts  and 
sent  them  directly  to  the  office. 

Q.  The  gauging  accounts  did  not  pass  through  your  office  ? — A.  The 
gau  gi  1 1  g  accou  n  t  s  ? 

Q.  Yes. — A.  Yes,  sir ;  they  were  made  out  by  the  ganger  in  my  office, 
and  I  was  furnished  with  a  co])y  of  his  account — of  the  amount  he  had 
gauged,  and  he  would  send  a  dui)licate  to  the  office  at  Washington. 

Q.  You  mean  the  ganger's  account  ? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  that  is  the  way  I 
understood  it. 

Q.  But  the  vouchers  for  the  deputy's  pay  were  not  sent  by  the  deputy 
himself,  but  through  your  office  in  a  difit'ereut  Avay  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


31)4  COLLECTIOX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Were  the  <;:in<ier''S  accounts  and  deputy's  accounts  both  allowed 
for  the  time  as  it  appears  upon  the  record  there!? — A.  Yes,  sir;  the 
ganger's  accounts  were  allowed,  and  the  dei)uties  received  their  pay 
under  an  allowance  from  the  department.  The  department  allowed 
the  collector  a  certain  amount,  and  he  paid  such  deputies  out  of  that 
amount. 

Q.  Had  there  been  any  question  raised  u])  to  the  year  1873  by  the 
department  here  of  the  legality  of  that  proceeding  ? — A.  Ko,  sir;  I  did 
not  hear  of  any  com])laint. 

Q.  You  say  that  did  not  go  on  in  your  office  after  the  year  1873  ? — A. 
I  do  not  reuiember  the  time ;  I  think  it  was  i)revious  to  the  year  1874 ; 
that  there  was  no  case  of  double  pay  in  the  ofhce  after,  because  we 
found  men  who  would  do  the  work,  and  we  preferred  to  divide  it  out, 
and  one  man  have  only  one  i)lace. 

Q.  So  under  your  administration  it  did  not  extend  beyond  one  or  two 
years  t — A.  No,  sir  ;  I  do  not  remember  that  it  did.  I  am  certain  there 
was  no  instance  atterwards,  for  the  reason  that  I  stated,  I  did  not  care 
to  have  one  man  holding  two  ofdces,  but  preferred  to  have  as  many 
officers  as  possible.  The  more  officers  we  had,  the  easier  it  was  to  con- 
trol things,  because  one  would  help  the  other. 

Q.  Mr.  J.  J.  Mcintosh  said  considerable  here  about  an  assessment  of 
S71  that  had  been  ]mid  by  him. — A.  My  recollection  is  that  Mr.  Mcin- 
tosh knew  very  well  what  that  was  for,  and  what  use  was  made  of  it. 
We  did  not  get  as  much  from  the  executive  committee  in  that  end  of 
the  State  that  year  as  we  expected,  and  there  were  some  expenses 
afterwards  which  followed  the  campaign  of  1872,  and  there  was  some 
money  raised  to  pay  off  those  expenses. 

Q.  You  mean  there  was  a  deficiency"? — A.  No;  there  were  expenses 
incurred,  over  and  above  the  amount  received,  which  we  had  to  pay,  and 
there  was  some  money  afterwards  raised  to  discharge  that  indebtedness, 
along  during  the  winter  and  spring  following.  Mr.  Mcintosh,  according 
to  my  recollection,  understood  what  disposition  was  made  of  it,  and  I 
never  heard  any  complaint;  he  never  alluded  to  it  since  that  I  know  of, 
and  I  am  satisfied  I  could  not  have  told  him  it  was  going  to  be  divided 
around,  because  I  remember  very  distinctly  if  I  had  done  it  that  one  of 
the  dei)uties,  Lillington,  who  did  not  get  any  pay,  but  who  had  sent  in 
a  voucher  at  that  tinie,  was  indebted  to  me  for  •'^250,  and  I  had  a  chance 
of  getting  it;  and  if  I  had  been  governed  by  my  own  interest  in  the 
matter,  I  would  have  i)aid  it  to  Lillington,  or  let  it  go  to  him,  and  spread 
it  around  as  .Mr.  Mcintosh  states  he  understood  me  to  say  to  him.  At 
any  rate,  the  $71  was  a])pliedlor  political  i)uri)oses,  and  not  in  the  other 
way. 

Q.  I  think  Mr.  Mcintosh's  first  assessment  was  for  the  whole  amount 
of  a  month's  sidary,  but  only  $71  was  retained f — A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not 
thiid<  he  said  that. 

().  Do  you  wish  to  say  anything  further  on  that  subject? — A.  I  only 
wish  to  s;iy  tlic  .$71  was  a|>plied  in  the  way  1  have  stated,  for  ])olitical 
purposes,  ;iiid  I  Ix'lieveMr.  Mcintosh  so  understood  it.  1  think  hestated 
lu'fc  in  his  e\  ideruM',  the  other  d;iy  \\v  did  not  so  undeistand  it  at  that 
time.  I  do  not  know  what  h(^  meant  by  that.  I  know  that  it  was  my 
understanding  t  h;il  the  money  was  contributed  in  that  way,  and  I  be- 
lie\e  he  so  iindeistood  it. 

r.y  Senator  McDiLL: 
().  'I"he  deputy  collectors,  as  I    understand  you,  weie   i)ai(l    fiom   the 
allowance  made  you  for  su<*li  purpose? — A.   Yes,  sir. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  395 

Q.  When  the  gangers  made  nptlieir  accounts  and  tlicy  were  found  to 
be  correct,  were  they  paid  ont  of  that  sum  advanced  or  souiewliere  else '? — 
A.  No,  sir;  they  wei'e  paid  from  tlie  department  here,  and  by  a  war- 
rant. 

Q.  So  yon  had  no  control  over  that? — A.  I  liad  no  control  of  tlie 
ganger's  checks.  They  were  rctnrned  to  my  ollicc,  to  my  charge,  to  be 
delivered  to  the  ganger. 

Q.  When  a  ganger  made  np  his  ac(;onnts,  were  you  called  to  cei'tify 
to  its  correctness  in  an  ofticial  way,  or  did  he  make  it  n]>  and  send  it 
in? — A.  I  <lo  not  remember  wlicrlicr  that  was  so  or  not;  that  was  a 
power  I  delegated  to  the  clerk,  and  it  has  gone  on  in  the  otlice  nntil  the 
present  day. 

By  Mr.  Tool  : 

Q.  Do  yon  wish  to  state  anything  in  regard  to  what  Mr.  Templeton  has 
said? — A.  Yes,  I  desire,  in  regard  to  Mr.  Templeton,  to  say  that  the  old 
gentleman  came  to  me  some  time  after  I  had  been  appointed  and  told 
me,  if  at  any  time  the  ])arty  needed  any  assistance,  that  he  wonhl  like 
to  assist  in  anything  that  was  necessary.  He  said  he  was  a  good  Ke- 
publican,  and  had  been  so  all  the  time,  and  he  wanted  to  let  me  know 
that  I  could  call  on  him.  I  think  it  was  a  year  or  two  afterwards  that 
there  was  a  Kepublican  newspaper  in  Asheville,  called  the  Asheville 
Pioneer,  which  had  sus])ended  andhad  passed  into  my  hands  and  some 
others,  I  forget  now  who,  but  it  was  running  on  then  a  year  or  two  in 
charge  of  a  couple  of  men,  and  a  good  deal  of  indebtedness  had  been 
incurred.  Both  the  geiitlemen  indulged  pretty  freely  in  whisky,  al 
though  they  were  correct  and  valuable  men,  and  good  newspaper  men 
at  the  same  time.  Considerable  indebtedness  was  incurred  there,  and  I 
asked  Mr.  Templeton  to  assist  me  in  relieving  myself  of  that  indebted- 
ness, which  he  did  very  freely.  I  regarded  him  to  be  about  as  able  as 
anybody  in  the  district  to  do  anything  of  that  sort,  and  as  he  had  come 
voluntarily  to  me,  and  expressed  a  disposition  a  year  or  two  before  in 
that  direction,  I  felt  that  I  could  call  ui)on  him.  He  had  been  in  the 
service  nearly  all  the  time  and  had  drawn  about  as  much  money  from 
the  office  as  anybody  else,  and  I  cannot  account  for  the  statement  which 
Mr.  Brooks  makes  in  trying  to  get  the  idea  that  it  was  a  piece  of  o})- 
pression  because  it  was  the  case  of  an  old  man  with  ten  children.  I  do 
not  know  how  manj'  children  he  has  got,  but  I  thiidv  his  children  are 
mostly  grown,  and  some  of  them  married.  He  is  in  very  good  circum- 
stances, owns  some  land,  and,  I  understand,  is  doing  very  well;  that  was 
mj^  impression  at  the  time.  I  want  to  ^ay  that,  in  connection  with 
the  matter,  I  am  inclined  to  think  that  the  agent  Brooks  had  a  little 
prejudice  against  me  at  the  time.  He  lived  at  Greensboro,  where  I 
had  some  political  enemies,  and  he  boarded  with  one  of  them.  I  felt, 
while  he  was  in  the  district,  that  he  had  some  feeling  towards  me. 

Q.  You  mean  political  enemies  of  your  own  party  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  He 
disclaimed  it  when  I  charged  him  with  it,  or  anything  of  the  sort,  but 
his  readiness  to  magnify-  a  thing  of  that  kind,  and  other  things  occur- 
ring iu  the  district,  led  me  to  believe  that  he  was  willing  that  odium 
should  be  put  upon  me. 

Q.  AVere  these  enemies  of  yours  in  Greensboro  trying  to  get  yon  out 
and  somebody  else  in? — A.  I  do  not  know;  they  were  trying  to  pre\ent 
my  having  intluence  in  the  party.  They  seemed  to  be  afraid  that  1 
might  have  too  much  of  it  for  them.  I  may  be  doing  lirooks  injustice, 
but  in  that  Templeton  matter,  where  he  went  out  of  his  way  to  magnify 
that  thing  and  put  it  in  a  bad  light,  it  seems  to  me  he  must  have  had 
some  feeling  of  that  sort,  and  1  told  him  so. 


3[)6  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  If  you  have  nothing  further  to  state  in  that  matter,  I  will  ask  if 
you  have  anything  to  say  about  Bruner's  statement  liere  ? — A.  In  reply 
to  Mr.  Bruner,  I  woukl  say  that  I  liad  the  impression  from  what  I  heard 
that  he  was  dislili^ed  because  of  his  not  giving  tliat  attention  to  distil- 
lers' matters  in  the  way  I  stated  yesterday;  that  he  was  a  stranger  to 
the  parties  that  he  stayed  with  mainly,  excei)t  Mr.  Lanier,  and  a  new  man 
among  them,  and  his  habits  were  such  that  he  was  disin<;lined,  I  sup- 
pose, to  give  such  assistance  about  the  distillery  as  a  great  many  of 
these  storekeepers  are  in  the  habit  of  doing.  These  storekeei)ers  are 
selected,  as  a  general  thing,  from  the  farmers  of  the  country  and  the 
ordiuary  business  men,  and  they  do  not  hesitate  to  give  the  distiller  any 
assistance  about  the  distillery  that  they  can,  looking  after  his  affairs, 
and  seeing  that  his  business  is  conducted  without  loss  to  him.  I  know 
a  great  many  storekeepers  have  been  objected  to  time  and  again  be- 
cause of  indisposition  on  their  part  to  do  this. 

Q.  In  connection  with  that,  to  what  extent  did  you  allow  distillers  to 
have  a  choice  in  selecting  storekeepers? — A.  I  was  governed  by  these 
motives:  where  I  had  appointed  a  man  by  the  advice  or  recommenda* 
tion  of  his  respectable  neighbors  (that  was  a  condition  of  his  getting  an 
api)ointment),  and  he  gave  a  good  bond,  had  the  confidence  of  his  friends 
to  a  sufficient  extent  to  give  a  good  bond,  together  with  his  oath  as  an 
officer  not  to  defraud  the  government  in  the  way  of  division  of  pay  or 
the  increase  of  mashes,  or  anything  of  that  kind,  I  felt  constrained  to  stop 
right  there  and  not  listen  to  these  rumors  unless  I  knew  some  circum- 
stance that  tended  to  give  me  the  idea  that  he  would  defraud  the  gov- 
ernment. If  the  distiller  expressed  a  desire  to  have  a  man  of  that  sort, 
I  was  inclined  to  favor  him,  and  did  so. 

Q.  The  distiller? — A.  Yes,  sir;  for  the  reason  that  the  distiller  gen- 
erally preferred  an  acquaintance  of  his,  or  a  neighbor  whom  he  knew, 
and  I  believe  it  was  mostly  for  the  purpose  stated  that  he  wanted  some 
one  there  who  would  look  to  his  affairs  around  the  distiller}',  and  see 
after  his  hands,  &c. 

Q.  The  intimation  is  that  these  distillers  expressed  preference  for 
storekeepers  in  order  to  get  one  to  divide  ])ay  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  assign  a  man  about  whom  you  had  a  suspicion  of 
that  sort  ? — A.  No  ;  where  I  had  a  reasonable  suspicion  of  it  I  was  not 
governed  hj  the  report  of  those  things,  because  you  can  hear  almost 
anytliing  in  those  matters. 

Q.  Were  not  those  damaging  reports  very  frequent  there  ? — A.  You 
could  not  take  cognizance  of  tlu;m.  They  were  llying  around  there 
about  everybody  connected  with  the  service.  No  man  was  free  from 
them.  Tills  ])emo(;ratic  political  jaw  was  going  on  all  the  time,  and 
had  been  for  years  ever  since  I  had  been  in  the  business. 

Q.  You  appointed  some  Democrats  to  office,  and  Mr.  Bruner  was  one 
of  them? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

i}.  Was  liruner  a  farmer  ? — A.  No,  sir;  he  was  a  newspaper  man.  I 
hail  an  object  in  that,  Ibr  the  press  was  violent  in  its  denunciations  of 
th(!  revenue  olliccis  and  llie  law.  Ilrunei'  a])i)lied  to  m<'  ibr  a  ])lace,  aiul 
I  tliongiil  it  was  a,  good  i(h'a  to  take  him  in,  and  see  if  it.  would  modify 
his  editorials,  and  the,  contmts  of  his  journal,  and  it  liad  tiiat  elfeet. 
'J'lie  i)ap('r  ])nrsu('d  a  >'eiy  din'erent  <'(»urse  towards  the  ollicers  and  tin', 
laws  after  that.  As  the  campaign  in  ISSOdrcw  on,  Bruiu'r,  as  he  stated 
here  lli(;  othci- day,  withdrew  from  the  serxice,  I  think  to  i)arti<'ipate 
in  that  campaign.  He  calculatcfl  it  was  going  to  get  ]U"etty  hot,  and 
wanted  t(»  i)e  on  iiis  own  side.  I  tiiink  that  was  his  main  reason  for 
w  i  t  h  (1  la  w  i  1 1  jf . 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  397 

Q.  I  call  your  attention  to  J.  IST.  Suininers;  do  you  wish  to  state  any- 
tliingin  regard  to  his  statenuMit '? — A.  1  remember  that  Sumuujrs  apj)lied 
to  me  to  be  sent  to  a  distillery  in  Wilkes  County.  Summers  lives  in 
Iredell  County.  Wilkes  County  is  some  distan<;e north  of  Iredell,  lie 
came  to  nu^  and  told  me  a  distiller  in  Wilkes  County  had  requested  that 
lie  should  be  sent  to  his  i)lace.  I  asked  him  how  he  came  to  make  that 
request,  llej  did  not  give  a  satisfactory  reason  for  it,  and  it  seems  to 
nie  that  it  was  rather  an  unusual  (drcumstancefor  a  man  away  off  uj)  in 
the  mountains  to  send  down  to  Iredell  and  take  a  rather  ob,scure  man 
for  a  storekeeper,  and  I  refused  to  assign  him  there.  Ilebecanuioftended, 
and  went  on  and  made  some  statement  about  his  political  contributions,^ 
which  were  untrue.  I  do  not  remember  now  what  he  did  state,  exce]»t 
in  his  atlidavit,  Miiich  is  jjublished  in  that  document.  I  replied  to  it^ 
and  I  deny  what  he  says. 

Q.  Your  answer  is  in  the  executive  document;  liave  you  anything  to 
say  in  regard  to  J.  C.  Barclay's  testimony,  and  especially  in  i-egard  to 
Daniels's  distillery? — A.  I  would  like,  if  I  could,  to  see  liarclay's  testi- 
mony, what  he  says  (Barclay's  testimony  handed  to  witness.  "Witness 
examining).  This  upper  distillery  was  eight  bushels  capacity,  and  it 
was  afterwards  reduced  to  four  bushels.  I  think  that  was  for  the  reason 
I  assigned  a  while  ago,  that  he  could  not  operate  an  eight  bushel  distil- 
lery all  the  year  around  with  the  water  he  had;  that  he  had  to  have 
water  of  a  cooler  temi>erature.  The  point  I  wanted  to  make  was  in  re- 
gard to  some  statements  he  makes  here  about  the  number  of  Daniels's 
distilleries ;  that  they  M^ere  operated  in  tAvo  instances  in  the  name  of 
other  parties,  and  that  we  did  not  know  that  Daniels  had  any  connec- 
tion with  the  Freeze  distillery  until  after  the  trouble  at  that  di>';tillery. 
Of  course,  I,  as  collector,  could  not  help  that,  if  a  man  wanted  to  run  a 
distillery  under  another  name.  Of  course  I  would  have  objected  to 
Dauiels  running  a  distillery  and  expressed  my  disa])probation  of  it,  but 
I  could  not  have  helped  his  running  that  number,  and  I  do  not  know  that  he 
had  anything  to  do  with  starting  the  Freeze  distillery.  He  may  have 
had  a  connection  with  the  whisky  that  was  in  it,  in  trading  with  Freeze^ 
and  I  believe  it  turned  out  that  way  some  how  or  other,  but  my  recol- 
lection of  the  multiplication  of  stills  in  the  Daniels  case,  was  in  the 
investigation  we  made  of  it;  that  he  wanted  a  larger  supply  of  water.^ 
I  heard,  and  could  not  get  it  for  the  amount  of  corn  he  wanted  to  stilL 
Altogether,  he  wanted  to  still  eight  bushels  the  year  around,  and  he 
could  not  do  that  with  the  amount  of  water  he  had. 

Q.  You  mean  at  one  place? — A.  Yes,  sir.  If  he  had  separate  stills 
he  could  move  one  down  the  branch  and  utilize  a  i)ortion  of  the  water 
for  the  mashes,  and  in  that  way  he  could  operate  them.  As  much  as  I 
have  had  to  do  with  distilling  in  that  district,  I  know  very  little  about 
the  modus  operandi.  I  never  was  in  but  two  or  three  distilleries  in  my 
life;  that  was  all  attended  toby  deputies.  We  investigated  the  matter, 
and  tliat  was  the  result  of  our  investigation.     It  was  allowed  to  go  on. 

Q.  ]\Ir.  Leonard  made  a  statement  here,  I  believe,  to  the  effect  that 
you  had  made  an  arrangement  with  him  that  all  over  $50  must  be  paid 
to  some  purpose  by  him.  State  what  you  have  to  say  about  that. — A. 
Well,  ]\ir.  Leonard  in  his  evidence  was  conveying  the  idea  that  hisortiee 
was  given  on  condition  that  he  was  to  do  that  thing.  I  made  no  such 
(jondition.  I  never  allowed  myself  to  do  anything  of  that  kind.  When 
he  was  appointed,  it  may  have  been  that  I  told  him  I  would  like  him  to 
make  an  application  of  a  certain  amount  of  what  he  received  for  a  cer- 
tain ])urpose. 

(»>.  You  mean  a  political  purpose? — A.  Yes,  sir.     He  said  it  was  all 


3  ^8  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

right.  He  went  off  to  another  county,  I  think,  some  different  section,  as 
I  did  not  see  him  for  some  time,  or  if  I  did,  I  (lo  not  call  it  to  mind.  At 
any  rate,  the  necessity  did  not  arrive,  or  it  was  i)rovided  for  in  some 
other  way. 

Q.  When  you  say  for  a  political  pur])ose,  do  yon  mean  that  some  par- 
ticular tem])orary  i>ur]»ose  occurred  just  at  that  time? — A.  Yes,  sir  5  it 
was  wanted  for  a  particular  purpose. 

Q.  You  do  not  mean  that  it  was  to  run  throu.uh  the  whole  of  his  serv- 
ice?— A.  Oh,  no;  it  was  merely  some  indebtedness  for  political  print- 
inii'  that  we  wanted  to  relieve  ourselves  of;  it  was  a  newspaper  debt. 

Q.  But  he  was  never  called  on  for  it  ? — A.  Ko,  sir. 

Q.  And  never  paid  it! — A.  At  least  he  said  so.  I  did  not  know  but 
that  he  had  paid  some  of  it,  but  when  he  said  what  he  did,  it  was  recalled 
to  my  memory  that  it  was  provided  for. 

Q.  In  a  different  way  without  calling-  u])on  him  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  wish  to  nuike  any  remarks  on  Mr,  Crane's  report?  (The 
witness  was  handed  Mr.  Crane's  report.) — A.  The  date  of  the  report  is 
May  2,  1874:,  made  to  S.  W.  Perrj",  supervisor. 

Q.  Addressed  to  him  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  There  are  seven  specilic  charges  made  in  Crane's  report.  In  the 
first  place,  that  you  signed  the  deputy  rolls  in  blank ;  as  the  answer  is  in 
there,  you  may  state  on  oath  if  that  answer  contains  the  truth. — A. 
1  thought  you  wanted  to  ask  some  questions  in  regard  to  the  report. 

Q.  You  say,  generally,  that  that  answer  you  have  made  to  Crane's 
report  contains  what  is  the  truth  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  It  is  such  as  you  would  make  on  affidavit? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think 
so ;  I  went  over  it  the  other  day. 

Q.  I  think  Mr.  Crane  states  that  you  received  credit  on  your  disburs- 
ing accounts  for  $1,125  paid  to  Kestler.  Did  you  receive  such  an  amount 
on  Kestler's  account? — A.  No;  I  only  received  $05. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  receive  any  such  credit  on  your  disbursing  acconnt 
on  account  of  Kestler? — A.  I  do  not  understand  you;  are  you  asking 
about  the  amount  I  paid  to  Kestler? 

Q.  As  to  the  amount  you  paid  Kestler. — A.  I  paid  him  $05. 

Q.  No  more? — A.  No  more. 

(^.  AVas  your  disbursing  account  credited  with  any  $1,125? — A.  I  do 
not  know;  my  disbursing  account  shows  that  I  i)aid  $05. 

Q.  And  that  is  the  only  item? — A.  On  my  account — disbursing  ac- 
count. What  I  wanted  to  speak  about  in  connection  with  the  matter 
was  the  animus  of  Mr.  Crane. 

Q.  Your  answer  to  Mr.  Crane's  report  was  in  writing  to  the  depart- 
ment?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

(^.  And  you  do  not  care  to  supidenuuit  that,  exce])t  to  say  that  it  is 
true? — A.  That  is  wliat  I  wanted  to  say;  that  these  statements  that  I 
make  in  this  answer  to  Mr.  Crane  are  substantially  true,  as  I  remem- 
ber them. 

(,).  The  date  of  your  answer  is  May  15,  1874  ?— A.  I  think  that  that 
re|)ly  to  ( 'lane's  icport  is  about  correct. 

i).  You  think  tiiat  Cram;  was  sent  there  for  the  purpose  of  getting  up 
something  to  cause  your  removal  '. — A.  That  is  my  impression. 

(}.  'i'hen  you  were  remov(Ml  in  consequence  of  that  report? — A.  And 
I  JM'ard  afterwards  that  lie  gloated  over  it,  and  then  still  further,  afier 
lie,  I'ound  out  how  the  acctount  had  been  adjusted  in  the  department,  that 
he  express!  d  some  regict  about  it. 

(}.  .Mr.  (.'rane  expicssiMl  some  regret  ahoutit? — A.  Y'^es,  sir. 

(}.  Tliis  witness  here  yesteiday,  .Mr.  Ileiidei'son, statcMl  that  he  heard 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  399 

liim  say,  on  investigation, that  it  was  all  bosli,  but  yon  were  turned  out 
ofoftice  on  account  of  it  t — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  upon  iinesti;4ati()n,were  restored  in  about  tliree  or  four  weeks  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Make  any  statement  that  you  wisli  in  reganl  to  other  matters, — 
A.  I  do  not  kuow  of  auytliin<>;  else. 

Q.  It  is  alleged  that  JMr.  Bryan,  one  of  your  d('|)uti('s  up  in  ^^'ilkes, 
where  there  ary  a  gi'eat  luany  illicit  distilleries,  dicl  not  break  np  or  at- 
temi»t  to  break  ui)any;  have  yon  any  explanation  about  that? — A.  That 
is  explained  in  this  reply  to  Mr.  Crane's  report  here. 

By  Senator  McDill  : 

Q.  Mr.  Kestler  stated  in  his  examination.  Dr.  INfott,  that  you  came  to 
see  him,  he  thought,  once  or  twice  about  the  vouchers,  and  in  a  conver- 
sation you  said,  that  Clarke  had  done  this;  that  Clarke  thoufiht  Kestler 
was  in  the  service ;  that  yon  stated  to  him  that  a  man  by  the  name  of 
Millen  Walker  got  some  of  the  money ;  and  that  it  was  frequently  the 
case  to  draw  money  over  one  man's  account  and  pay  it  to  another. 
Please  state  whether  you  had  such  a  conversation  and  what  you  said. — 
A.  No,  sir.  I  had  no  conversation  with  Kestler  about  that.  1  went 
there  to  get  that  voucher  signed,  so  as  to  makeup  an  amended  account. 
He,  as  I  understood  it,  under  the  advice  of  Ramsey,  was  disinclined  to 
comply  with  the  request.  1  went  to  him  and  told  him  that  a  mistake 
had  been  made  in  the  matter  of  these  vouchers,  and  I  wanted  him  to 
correct  it,  making  an  amended  account,  and  give  the  true  amounts,  as 
the  other  parties  to  whom  the  money  was  paid  had  done.  He  seemed 
to  demur,  and  I  think  I  had  to  go  to  him  twice  before  I  got  his  signature 
to  the  voucher. 

Q.  Was  that  this  sixty-five  dollar  voucher? — A.  The  sixty-five  dollar 
voucher  1  wanted  to  put  in  the  amount  of  his  account.  His  statement 
that  I  wanted  him  to  sign  a  paper  exonerating  me  is  false,  because  there 
is  no  possible  way  by  which  he  could  have  given  me  a  piece  of  writing 
that  would  have  put  the  matter  in  a  different  light  at  all.  I  only  asked 
for  the  voucher  for  105. 

Q.  What  I  called  your  attention  to  is  his  statement  that  you  said  it 
was  a  frequent  thing  to  draw  one  man's  money  on  anotlier  man's  account. — 
A.  No,  sir ;  I  think  there  is  an  instance  or  two  in  which  money  was 
drawn  on  one  man's  account,  or  some  that  had  been  drawn  on  one  man's 
account  was  under  an  arrangement  of  the  party,  on  condition  of  certain 
help  being  extended,  as  in  raiding,  where  a  man  felt  unsafe  about  going 
to  a  distillery  and  he  wanted  helj),  where  the  government  had  not  given 
more  men  or  allowed  sufiticient  force ;  there  were  several  instances  in 
which  that  was  doue,  but  I  do  not  remember  the  names  or  anything 
except  in  these  instances  here  that  you  spoke  of. 

I  want  to  express  myself  again  in  regard  to  Kestler's  statement,  that 
I  went  to  him  to  sign  some  paper  to  exonerate  me.  It  would  occur  to 
any  one  that  it  would  be  impossible  for  him  to  give  me  anything  to 
answer  that  purpose.  The  only  thing  I  wanted  from  him  was  his  voucher 
for  $05.  He  did  not  want  to  give  me  that,  because  he  thought  he  had 
some  advantage,  and  I  understood  it  was  on  the  advice  of  IJamsey. 
Eamsey  would  not  put  his  voucher  in  at  all  for  the  true  amount,  though 
I  obtained  from  hiui  a  separate  receipt  at  the  rate  of  $100  a  month,  I 
explained  to  Kestler  that  it  did  not  make  any  particular  difference 
whether  he  did  it  or  not,  that  I  would  rather  he  would  put  it  in,  so  as 
to  show  how  the  account  stood,  but  that  if  he  did  not  want  to  do  it,  it 
was  all  right,  that  it  could  not  be  of  any  great  advantage  to  me;  at  the 


400  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

same  time  I  preferred  bim  to  do  it,  and  passing-  tlirougli  the  town  a;:ain, 
1  understood  that  he  was  inclined  to  do  it,  and  I  went  to  see  him  the 
second  time  and  got  the  voncliei'. 

Cross-examination  by  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Where  does  Clarke  come  from  ;  what  country  is  lie  a  native  of? — 
A.  J.  A.  Clarke? 

Q,  Yes  ? — A.  From  North  Carolina. 

Q.  What  part  of  the  State  ? — A.  From  the  center,  Granville  County, 
probably. 

Q.  He  came  to  you,  as  you  tell  us,  from  Mr.  Perry,  and  he  was  thor- 
oughly recommended,  except  that  he  was  inclined  to  drink  !— A.  Yes, 
sir;  Mr.  Perry  recommended  him  to  me  as  a  good  man,  to  use  his  own 
expression,  a  "  first  rate,  good  hearted^  clever  man."  I  did  not  know 
Clarke.  He  had  been  in  the  revenue  business  with  Mr.  Young,  and  I 
thought  it  behooved  me  to  get  some  one  who  knew  the  business. 

Q.  He  came  to  you  at  the  very  start  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir ;  at  the  very  start ; 
he  helped  me  to  execute  the  bond,  something  1  did  not  know  anything 
about.  There  was  some  difliculty  in  complying  with  the  rules  in  exe- 
cuting the  bond.  It  was  for  that  purpose  he  came  ahead  of  the  trans- 
fer of  the  ottlce. 

Q.  Y"ou  stated,  I  believe,  that  you  were  absent  in  the  campaign  dur- 
ing the  time  covered  by  these  vouchers,  and  necessarily  left  everything 
to  Clarke  ? — A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not  think  I  stated  that.  If  I  did  it  was  a 
mistake.  I  said  that  the  early  period  of  my  ofiicial  administration 
covered  the  campaign,  and  that  these  matters  were  all  put  upon  and 
left  to  ]Mr.  Clarke,  on  account  of  my  absence  and  employment  in  that 
campaign  and  otherwise.  But  it  did  not  cover  the  whole  period  of  the 
A'ouchers. 

Q.  You  do  not  mean  to  say  that  there  was  any  campaign  going  on  in  De- 
cember, 1872,  and  from  the  last  of  March,  to  the  30th  of  June,  1873  "?— 
A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not  think  you  ever  got  anything  from  me  that  makes 
that  appear.  I  said,  I  think,  if  I  remember  anything  about  it,  that  I 
was  away  a  great  deal  about  that  period  after  the  campaign ;  that  I 
had  a  good  deal  of  private  business,  and  very  little  to  do  with  the  office 
during  the  winter. 

Q.  You  said  that  these  Kestler  vouchers  were  of  a  character  that 
were  often  left  to  clerks  to  get  up,  and  to  prepare  for  the  department "? — 
A.  No,  sir  ;  I  did  not  say  that — you  mean  to  sign  and  get  up  ? 

Q.  Yes,  sir;  prepare  for  the  adjustment? — A.  No;  I  said  that  these 
matters  were  left  to  the  clerk  to  make  up  a  quarterly  account.  That  was 
what  I  (lid  say. 

ii.  Did  you  not  say  that  it  was  usual,  generally,  for  the  clerks — left  to 
them — to  make  uj)  tliis  kind  of  accounts  ? — A.  1  do  say  that  the  collectors 
delegate  to  the  clerks  and  deputies  authority  to  sign  their  names  to 
detail  work  in  their  offices. 

Q.  You  say  Mr.  Kestler  remained  about  ten  days,  and  you  found  he 
was  inetficieiit? — A.  I  found  he  woiUd  not  be  efficient  in  the  way  I 
wanlt'd. 

(,).  Till'  reason  vou  give  is  tli;ithe  was  feeble,  one  armed,  &c.,  and  you 
put  W'idker  in  to  do  ids  w<uk  f — A.   Yes,  sii-. 

(^.  Did  you  iiijike  any  record  of  Kestler's  discharge? — A.  No,  sir; 
that  was  not  done  then  in  tlie  ollice.  There  was  no  reettrd  of  that  sort 
ke|.l. 

(^.  Did  you  inform  the  depailnieidof  the  ehaiige  ?— A,  No,  sir;  that 
was  not  done  in  tiiosedayfi.     Jn  the  case  of  Walker,  when  he  first  went 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    XORT'I    CAROLINA.  401 

in,  and  in  the  case  of  Hendei\s(ni  and  another  man.or  two  along-  there. 
At  tlie  start  there  was  no  record  koi)t,  no  report  made  of  it.  I  clianged 
these  men  from  time  to  time,  to  suit  mjself  and  my  idea  of  wliat  I 
wanted  done,  and  no  record  was  kept  of  it  except  the  disl)ursements. 

Q.  Did  yon  lind  out  tlie  mistake  about  these  xouchers  befcne  ^INfr. 
Crane  came  out? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

().  Did  that  report  first  call  yonr  attention  to  it  ? — A.  T  had  some 
correspondence  with  the  department  which  indicated  that  there  was 
'dissatisfaction  at  the  de])artment,  and  that  the  account  was  not  in  the 
shape  they  wanted  it,  but  in  regard  to  those  Kestler  vouchers  F  knew 
nothing  of  it  until  Mr.  Crane's  report  was  made. 

Q.  How  many  deputies  did  yon  have  in  1872,  or  the  last  part  of  1 872  .' — 
A.  There  were  live  or  six.     It  is  on  that  last  abstract  of  June  30,  1873. 

Q.  The  fiscal  year  that  ran  from  June,  1872,  to  June  1873  ?— A.  You 
know  they  were  increased,  and  more  put  on  from  May  20,  1873. 

Q.  Previous  to  this  time  yon  had  three? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  had  three 
that  were  paid.  I  rememlier  dnring  that  period  men  would  come  to  me 
and  want  positions  as  deputies,  ami  some  of  them  were  commissioned  as 
such  with  the  promise  if  they  would  do  some  work  that  I  might  be  able 
to  i)nt  them  on,  and  I  held  out  that  as  an  inducement  to  men  to  assist  in 
breaking  down  blockading  through  the  conntry  ;  I  commissioned  a  good 
many  men  dnring  the  year  1872  :  I  had  them  abont  in  ditferent  pares  of 
the  district,  and  I  will  say  that  after  that,  some  of  them  did  do  such 
work,  and  they  might  have  been  appointed  dei^nties.  Wherever  they 
had  come  np  to  what  I  expected,  and  deserved  pay  for  what  they  did  dOj 
1  put  them  on  as  deputies,  and  assisted  them  in  that  way. 

Q.  What  I  want  to  know  is  the  nnmber  of  deputies  that  were  paid, . 
and  these  accounts  you  forwarded  here  to  the  department — the  vouchers 
for  the  same — were  there  onlj^  three  at  that  time"? — A.  Three;  that  was 
all  the  allowance. 

Q.  And  Walker  was  one  of  your  first  deputies  ? — A.  l^es,  sir;  he  was 
employed,  I  think,  at  the  start. 

Q.  And  did  active  work  '? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  he  worked  then  in  the  way- 
he  did  that  winter ;  he  did  active  work  as  a  deputy  ;  I  do  not  think  he 
was  a  ganger  at  the  start. 

Q.  How  do  you  suppose  it  happened,  he  being  one  of  the  first  deputies, 
and  on  active  work,  that  Clarke  did  not  put  him  down  for  pay  in  that 
voucher? — A.  It  is  something  I  cannot  explain. 

Q.  He  put  Mr.  Kestler  in  who  had  not  been  about  the  ofllice  for 
several  months  ? — A.  Kestler  had  been  abont  the  office. 

Q.  About  ten  days,  and  then  went  home,  and  Mr.  Clarke  saw  nothing- 
more  of  him  for  about  nine  months,  and  yet  made  out  vouchers  for  him 
instead  of  the  active  deputy  who  was  on  duty.  I  believe  you  said,  as 
we  went  on,  that  you  paid  the  deputies  before  their  vouchers  were 
sent  in,  because  they  were  poor  men? — A.  In  some  instances  I  nmde 
advances  to  them. 

Q.  Did  you  pay  Mr.  Walker  in  that  way  ? — A.  I  remember  furnishing 
Mr.  Walker  everything — all  his  gauging  tools  and  some  other  things: 
paid  his  expenses.  He  was  a  poor  man  and  had  no  means,  and  I 
generally  found  all  through  the  history  of  my  administratiort  there  that 
most  of  the  men  I  would  take  up  when  they  were  put  on  as  dei>uties, 
and  their  expenses  commenced  in  traveling  about  the  country,  that  I 
would  have  to  assist  them,  and  that  went  on  np  to  the  last  of  my  ad- 
ministration. 

Q.  During  the  time  that  the  Kestler  vouchers  were  being  filed  instead 
of  Mr.  Walker's,  Mr.  Mcintosh's,  and  Mr.  H.  Y.  ^Mott's,  who  did  the  serv- 
S.  Mis.  IIG 2G 


402  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

ice  in  fact?  Did  either  of  tliem  make  complaints  about  their  pay — why 
it  did  not  come  on? — A.  It  appears  H.  Y.  Mott  said  nothing  about  his 
voucher,  and  it  turns  out  he  did  not  know  he  had  to  put  one  in  until  he 
was  called  on  by  me  for  this  amended  voucher.  I  will  state,  here,  that 
H.  Y.  Mott  made  no  comi^laint  about  it,  for  the  reason  that  he  had  in- 
structed me  to  pay  a  note  of  his  in  the  neighborhood  there — some  eight 
or  ten  miles  below  Statesville.  I  nmke  the  exjdanation  so  as  to  clear 
up  the  thing  in  every  way  that  I  can.  He  owed  a  man  by  the  name  of 
Xeal  some  money. 

Q.  Having  asked  you  to  pay  this  would  keep  him  quiet? — A.  I  su])- 
pose  so.  Another  thing  was,  I  think  I  paid  my  brother  some  money 
during  that  period.  I  remember  I  had  his  note  for  an  amount  that  1 
furnished  him  to  get  his  medical  education  with,  immediately  after  the 
war,  and  it  is  probable  that  some  of  it  might  have  been  applied  in  that 
way.  I  know  that  we  had  a  settlement  several  years  afterwards.  We 
had  matters  running  on  for  several  years,  and  I  make  that  statement 
for  the  purpose  of  explaining  why  he  did  not  call  on  me.  These  are  the 
facts. 

Q.  AValker  left  and  went  to  Illinois  before  he  got  his  money,  and  left 
Mr.  Clarke  to  collect  it? — A.  Walker  must  have  made  a  mistake  about 
that;  because,  as  I  told  you,  I  advanced  this  very  money  during  that 
winter,  and  I  applied  a  portion  of  it  to  the  expenses  that  he  had  asked 
me  for  in  advance  to  pay  for  his  ganger's  tools,  »S:c.  I  think  that 
Walker  got  mixed  on  that ;  and  that  he  was  not  aware,  even  at  that  time 
when  he  said  it,  that  he  was  entitled  to  his  pay  as  deputy  until  these 
vouchers  went  in.  After  he  had  been  a  ganger  his  pay  was  held  from 
time  to  time,  and  he  did  not  get  his  ganger's  check,  which,  probably, 
was  often  the  case;  and  he  concluded  that  it  was  because  his  vcmchers 
were  not  in  proper  shape ;  and  when  those  vouchers  were  sent  to  him 
to  amend  while  he  was  in  Illinois,  I  suppose  he  thought,  though  he 
had  had  the  benefit  of  the  money  from  time  to  time  before  he  left, 
that  there  must  have  been  something  wrong  al)out  his  account,  that  we 
had  not  yet  got  his  money. 

Q.  Did  you  ask  leave  to  file  these  anu'nded  vouchers,  or  did  someone 
in  tin*  department  there  requii^e  you  to  do  it  ? — A.  I  think  they  required 
it  there  at  the  department. 

Q.  Did  you  tell  us,  at  any  time,  when  they  were  put  in  ? — A.  I  think 
I  mentioiHMl  yesti'rday  that  they  were  put  in  about  the  time  they  are 
signed,  and  I  only  Judge  of  that  by  the  disposition  I  had  to  file  them  as 
soon  as  I  got  hohl  of  them.  I  know  that  it  was  expected  at  the  depart- 
ment that  they  should  l)e  filed.  I  know  that  in  accordance  with  that 
ex])e(;tation,  as  they  were  in  a  hurry,  I  ])ut  them  in  immediately,  because 
they  wanted  to  straighten  the  account. 

Q.  Whom  did  you  tile  tliem  with? — A.  I  cannot  tell  yon  that.  I  do 
not  rciii('iiil»er  whetliei'  tliey  were  ])ut  in  by  me  in  jx'rson  or  forwarded 
l)y  me. 

(}.  To  wliat  branch  of  the  department?  Mr.  ilaum  said,  yesterday, 
lie  did  not  think  tlx'y  went  tlimngh  liis  office. — A.  I  am  not  sure  about 
that.     I  do  not  know  how  that  is. 

(}.  It  w  as  not  necM'ssary  at  tliat  time  for  the  adjust  ment  of  your  account, 
for  your  account  had  ahcady  Ix'en  adjusted.' — A.  1  do  not  know  that. 
The  h'tters  we  leceived  from  time  to  time  h'ad  me  to  l>elieve  it  was  not 
ailjusted;  ;iiid  Miis  statement  of  limitation  of  allowance  in  the  compen- 
siitidu  accounts,  wiiich  I  did  not  know  about,  went  to  make  me  believe 
Miat  it  w;is  not  settled.     1  sn pposcd  they  Were  adjusted  at  that  time.    I 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  403 

bad  no  reason  to  l)e]ieve  tluit  they  had  not  been,  because  there  liad  not 
been  anytliiiig-  said  about  it  except  in  these  letters. 

Q.  In  rehition  to  the  political  assessments,  you  told  us  yesterday  that 
in  1880  they  amounted  to  $14,000  ?— A.  I  think  so ;  l)et\veen  814,000  and 
$15,000,  that  I  know  al)out. 

Q.  And  there  was  some  sent  directly  to  ltaleijj;h  ? — A.  I  think  so. 

Q.  Have  you  any  idea  how  many  officers  there  were  on  duty  that 
year? — A.  I  think  about  one  hundred  and  tifty. 

Q.  You  did  not  call  on  men  toi)ay  that  were  not  making  any  money  ? — 
A.  No,  sir;  I  did  not  call  on  them  to  pay. 

Q.  When  did  you  begin  to  collect  political  assessments  ? — A.  I  l>egan 
inquiring  about  it  sometime  before  the  Chicago  convention. 

Q.  I  mean  during  your  administration. — A.  To  make  political  assess- 
ments on  the  officers? 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  I  never  had  any  regular  assessment  upon  them  until 
1880.  We  would  throw  in  a  little  around,  and  I  might  have  called  on 
some  parties  to  assist  me  in  the  matter,  but  there  was  no  regular  assess- 
ment before  that  time. 

Q.  Did  you  give  that  receipt  (handing  paper  to  witness)  ? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
that  is  ray  handwriting. 

Q.  (Keading:) 

Statksville,  April  24,  1872. 
Received  of  J.  A.  Ranisav,  :$50. 

J.  J.  MOTT, 
Chairman  Dist.  Com. 

A.  Isu])pose  that  was  done  of  Mr.  Ramsay's  own  accord.  He  wanted 
to  make  some  contribution  of  that  kind,  but  I  never  sent  out  any  circu- 
lar or  made  any  general  assessment  on  the  officers  until  1880. 

Q.  Did  you  consider  your  order  to  your  subordinates  to  cease  swear- 
ing out  warrants  as  legal  ? — A.  I  did  not  think  it  was  illegal  at  the  time, 

Q.  Forbidding  them  to  execute  part  of  their  duty  ? — A.  No,  sir  ;  for 
the  reasons  stated  yesterday,  I  thought  that  the  cases  were  oi)en  and 
that  we  had  sometime  to  run  in  which  j^arties  could  be  indicted. 

Q.  In  relation  to  the  abuse  that  politicians,  speakers,  and  newspapers, 
and  others,  heaped  upon  the  revenue  officers,  was  there  no  excuse  for  it 
at  all  % — A.  The  politicians  ? 

Q.  Or  anybody  abusing  the  revenue  officers. — A.  I  do  not  think  there 
was  in  ray  district.  I  never  infringed  on  anybody's  rights.  I  do  not 
think  you  can  cite  any  instance  in  my  district,  under  my  administration, 
where  anything  of  that  kind  was  done.  Of  course  we  had  some  fights 
and  difficulties,  but  it  grew  out  of  insults  and  things  of  that  kind. 

Q.  I  do  not  allude  to  ])ersonal  lights  or  difficulties,  which  may  happen 
to  anybody,  but  what  I  mean  is  this:  Were  not  the  revenue  officers  in 
your  district,  and  in  your  State,  active,  hard-working  Kepublican  poli- 
ticians ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  they  were  generally 

Q.  AVhen  your  political  enemies  were  tightiug  you,  they  had  the  ex- 
cuse that  they  were  lighting  their  political  enemies  in  the  officers  of  the 
government? — A.  ]>ut  you  did  not  tight  fair. 

Q.  That  is  a  matter  of  opinion  ? — A.  I>ut  you  let  it  ii.(^\.  too  hot  ;  you 
let  it  go  too  far  altogether. 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  some  of  the  complaints  made  against  revenue 
officers,  that  they  rode  through  the  country  armed  and  terrorized  over 
the  people? — A.  That  was  said. 

Q.  And  carried  Idank  warrants,  and  Just  tilled  up  people's  names  ? — 
A.  I  did  nothing  of  the  kind. 


404  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  That  wiistlie  marshals  '? — A.  We  did  not  allow  the  marshals  to  do 
that. 

Q.  I  asked  you  if  that  were  not  true,  if  these  complaints  were  not 
made? — A.  Yes,  sir;  complaints  were  made,  but  in  that  district  I  do 
not  thiidc  of  any  particular  instances.  There  may  have  been  instances 
of  it,  but  I  know  it  was  complained  on  the  other  hand  that  there  was 
not  a  sufiicient  amount  of  care  manifested  on  my  part  in  assisting  the 
marshals  to  do  these  very  things  you  are  talking  about;  and  as  a  con- 
sequence that  district  became  very  much  i)opularized  all  through  that 
country,  because  we  would  not  allow  the  marshals  to  do  these  things  in 
connection  with  my  office. 

Q.  Have  you  not  in  the  service  of  the  department  a  good  many  violent 
men — fighting  and  reckless  men  in  the  use  of  weapons  and  things  of 
that  sort? — A.  Yes,  sir;  some  very  courageous  fellows,  but  they  are 
generally  men  of  pretty  fair  character,  and  they  are  under  all  sorts  of 
restraint.  Of  course  we  had  to  have  l>old  men  to  do  the  work  that  was 
to  be  done  there.     They  would  run  out  any  other  kind. 

Q.  Some  parts  of  your  work  require  men  of  courage,  and  a  good  deal 
of  it.  Xow,  about  these  distilleries,  you  say  under  the  old  regime  that 
men  could  not  so  well  give  a  big  bond  as  they  could  give  two  small 
bonds'? — A.  Y"es,  sir;  that  was  one  reason  assigned  for  the  change. 

Q.  What  is  the  liond  required  for  a  four-bushel  capacity  still  ? — A.  I 
really  do  not  remember;  |r)00,  I  think,  is  the  distiller's  bond  of  that 
capacity. 

Q.  Now,  for  a  eight-bushel  capacity,  how  much  would  that  be  ? — A. 
In  the  same  proportion  ;  if  four  bushels  were  $500,  eight  bushels  would 
be  $1,000.  You  can  understand  how  much,  more  readily  they  would  be 
able  to  get  a  man  to  sign  a  $500  bond  than  a  $1,000  bond ;  it  requires 
two  sureties  on  a  bond,  and  it  was  less  difHcult  to  procure  them. 

Q.  You  say  Jim  Harris  was  a  colored  man  you  thought  well  of;  you 
used  the  word  "well"? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  ask  you  if  he  was  not  considered  a  man  having  a  bad  character 
in  consequence  of  facts  developed  on  the  fraud  commission  ? — A.  1  heard 
some  reports  of  that  sort,  but  know  nothing  of  it. 

Q.  Was  it  not  shown  by  the  fraud  commission  that  when  he  was  made 
a  candidate  for  Congress  he  sold  out  to  Deweese;  was  not  that  sworn 
to  before  the  fraud  commission  ? — A.  You  said  so. 

CJ.  Was  it  not  shown  ? — A.  1  do  not  remember ;  1  never  knew  that  was 
the  case.  Y^'ou  charged  so  much  on  us  down  tliere  that  I  cannot  recol- 
lect it  all. 

Q.  1  have  not  been  able  to  get  a  copy  of  Harris's  political  api)oint- 
ments,  when  he  was  going  around  through  the  the  district,  except  for 
the  month  of  September — at  least  for  a  part  of  the  month  of  Sei)tem- 
ber — isso  .' — A.   He  made  some  speeches  in  September. 

<i>.  Il<*re  is  a  copy  i)urporting  to  have  been  taken  from  the  llaleigh 
Signal  (►!■  the  issue  ol'  Se]>tembei-  "2i.  I  do  notknow  wliether  it  is  true 
or  not;  l>ut  1  got  it  from  a  respectable  genth'inan,  who  copied  it  olf  and 
sent  it  to  me  (handing  to  witness).  See  if  .nou  know  iinytliing  about 
tliose  appciintments. — A.  ( I'iXamining.)  Yes,  sir  ;  I  think  Harris  si)oke 
at  liiese  pliiees;  I  know  he  sj)()ke  at  Mayliew's,  and  I  know  at  this 
phice  culled  "  Mott's  drox'e";  that  is  in  the  neigliborhood  of  States- 
\ilh'.     \\  inther  he  went  to  the  others,  1  am  not  sure. 

(J|.  Do  you  I'ecolh'ct  whether  these  statenn'uts  are  correctly  given  ? — 
A.  (Reading-)  "  Mott's  (!i(ne,  Septend)er  1'5."  I  do  not  know;  I  know 
lie  spoke  at  tlu'se  two  phices.  \  suppose  that  is  correct.  I  know  he 
ma(h'  some  speeches  whih',  he  was  deputy. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  405 

Q.  You  see  I  am  following  Mr.  Pool's  exiiii'.iiintioii.  On  investi^^atioii 
you  were  restored  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  investigatiou  was  made  ? — A.  I  suppose  the  investigation 
by  thepe  accounting  officers  in  the  internal-revenue  service.  A  man 
by  the  name  of  Tompkins  was  at  the  head  of  accounts  iu  the  internal - 
revenue  office.  It  was  to  him  that  T  went  and  asked  if  he  had  ex- 
amined the  accounts  in  the  Comptroller's  Office  ;  and  if  he  had  not,  tliat 
I  desired  he  would  do  it.  That  if  he  woidd,  I  thought  he  would  ent<'r- 
tain  a  different  0])inion  with  regard  to  these  matters.  lie  ap]»eared  to  be 
a  little  pettish  about  it  and  careless,  and  said  he  did  not  have  tinui.  1 
insisted  that  he  must  take  time,  or  I  would  go  to  the  President  al>out 
it;  and  we  got  up  a  little  stir  tlien^  in  the  office.  I  left  and  went  back 
the  next  day,  and  asked  Mr.  Tomi)kins  if  the  matter  had  been  looked 
into ;  and  he  went  on  to  say  that  he  thought  the  matter  was  all  right, 
and  gave  me  to  understand  that  the  President  insisted  on  my  being 
restored. 

Q.  That  is  what  you  allude  to  when  you  say  the  matter  was  investi- 
gated ?— A.  Then  I'told  Judge  Settle  and  Mr.\Smith  to  go  to  Mr.  Doug- 
lass and  get  a  copy  of  the  charges.  That  was  after  I  saw  Mr.  Tomp- 
kins and  insisted  upon  it. 

By  Mr,  Pool  : 

Q.  Waf!  Mr.  Douglass  the  Commissioner  at  the  time? — A.  Y''es,  sir; 
Commissioner  Douglass.  They  went  to-  Mr.  Douglass,  and  then  came  to 
me  with  the  statement  that  Mr.  Douglass  said  the  charges  against  me 
were  that  I  was  not  giving  personal  attention  to  the  office,  but  dab- 
bling in  railroads  and  in  farms,  and  would  not  attend  to  my  official  busi- 
ness. He  wanted  somebody  who  would  give  the  office  his  i)ersonal  at- 
tention. Judge  Settle  and  Mr.  Smith  knew  that,  I  had  told  them  of  the 
complaint  that  Mr.  Crane  had  made  and  explained  it  to  them.  They 
went  to  the  President.  The  President  instituted  some  inquiry  about  it 
— at  any  rate  I  was  reinstated. 

Q.  I  understood  you  to  deny  that  you  signed  that  abstract  that  con- 
tained the  Kestler  vouchers  ? — A.  I  did. 

Q.  Mr.  Clarke  said  that  you  had  signed  it  as  a  mere  matter  of  form; 
you  say  you  did  not  sign  it  at  all  ? — A.  I  did  not  sign  it  at  all;  and  I 
think  you  must  have  called  Mr.  Clarke's  attention  to  the  wrong  one ;  I 
do  not  know;  I  will  leave  that  to  him  to  explain.  I  did  sign  the  amended 
abstract. 

Q.  You  say  you  left  these  matters  to  Mr.  Clarke,  relying  on  his  expe- 
rience to  tix  it  up  in  proper  form  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir. 

Q.  If  they  were  not  signed  by  you,  of  course  they  were  not  sworn  to 
by  you  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Were  they  not  required  to  be  sworn  to  by  law! — A.  Y'es,  accord- 
ing to  what  I  have  heard  since ;  but  it  has  not  always  been  done  in  the 
collectors'  offices  of  the  country,  as  I  understand  and  have  been  so  in- 
formed. 

Q.  As  you  knew  that  he  had  made  up  the  vouchers  and  sent  them 
on,  and  you  had  not  signed  them,  relying  upon  him.  Y'^ou  knew  that 
you  had  not  sworn  to  them,  of  course? — A.  I  knew  after  that;  but  I 
did  not  know  then  I  had  to  swear  to  that  account  unless  he  had  told  me. 
If  1  did  not  state  it,  I  do  state  so  now.  I  never  saw  these  vouchers 
until  after  Crane's  report. 

Q.  Do  not  all  the  forms  furnished  you  from  the  department  have  a 
l^rinted  oath  upon  them? — A.  1  do  not  think  all  of  them  do.  I  think 
most  of  them  do,  and  that  all  went  off  in  the  same  way — not  sworn  to. 


406  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Now  siuce  that  occurrence  I  have  been  more  particular  about  it.  But 
tliere  are  iustauces  iu  wbicb,  if  the  form  had  to  be  compHed  with  strictly 
and  the  accounts  got  up  in  time,  they  would  suffer  a  good  deal  of  incon- 
venience and  trouble  in  such  offices  on  account  of  that. 

Q.  Do  you  suppose  or  believe  the  department  knew  these  accounts 
had  never  been  sworn  to  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  tliey  did.  1  want 
you  to  understand  that  I  did  not  see  those  accounts,  and  did  not  sign 
them.  The  money  was  furnished  me  under  the  allowance,  and  I  em- 
ployed men  and  paid  it  out  under  the  allowance  without  reference  to  the 
(juarterly  account  which  was  made  uj)  by  Mr.  Clarke  during  that  period. 

Q.  There  has  been  some  confusion  in  my  mind  about  tliis  matter. 
Let  me  see  if  I  have  got  it  correct.  A  certain  allowance  was  made  to 
you  for  the  expenses  of  your  office  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  disposed  of  that  allowance  as  you  thought  proper  in  the  em- 
])loyment  of  clerks,  depnties,  &c. ;  you  had  a  sort  of  voucher  showing 
what  deputies  you  had  employ  ed,  and  what  you  had  paid  them,  and  if 
the  total  exceeded  the  amount  of  the  allowance  they  cut  you  down. 
That  is  right,  is  it  notf — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  is  right. 

Q.  Did  you  understand  that  no  money  was  received  on  these  Kestler 
vouchers  except  this  8(55  ? — A.  1  understood  that  the  account  was  ad- 
justed there  iu  accordance  with  the  letters  we  received.  It  must  have 
been  delayed.  I  do  not  know  about  that.  I  say  I  received  no  money 
on  the  Kestler  vouchers  to  my  knowledge,  because  I  did  not  know  the 
Kestler  vouchers  were  in  there.  Therefore  I  could  not  have  told  him  I 
received  the  money  on  his  vouchers.     That  is  what  I  want  to  state. 

Q.  Xow,  I  understand,  from  the  testimony  that  is  in,  that  you  had 
drawn  all  the  $1,125  on  the  Kestler  vouchers,  becanse  the  government 
had  cut  it  down  to  $100  a  month  instead  of  $125  a  month ;  and  instead 
of  paying  that  money  to  Kestler,  or  keeping  it  yourself,  that  you  had,, 
when  the  mistake  was  discovered,  paid  it  over  to  Walker  and  those 
other  deputies  who  had  actually  done  the  work ;  but  the  money  was 
drawn  on  the  voucher  put  iu  by  Mr.  Kestler? — A.  That  is  the  very 
point  I  difier  with  you  about.  I  say  I  could  not  liave  drawn  the  money 
on  the  Kestler  vouchers,  although  the  vouchers  appear  there.  I  be- 
lieve the  account  was  settled  without  reference  to  the  Kestler  vouchers, 
becanse  the  amounts  were  funislied  in  advance  of  tlie  vouchers,  from 
time  to  time.  He  went  iu  there  in  October,  and  we  put  in  no  voucher 
till  in  -January  some  time.  At  least  it  did  not  reach  the  de])artment 
until  January,  and  as  a  consequence  I  did  not  know  that  any  money 
was  being  drawn  on  the  Kestler  vouchers.  I  think  that  they  settled 
the  account  without  reference  to  the  names  of  the  men  that  appeared. 
I  thought,  possibly,  in  view  of  those  letters  that  passed  between  the 
<lepartmcnt  there  and  the  office,  they  might  without  my  knowledge — 
without  my  being  aware  of  it — have  kc})t  the  account  o[)en.  1  do  not 
know  how  that  is.  I  know  they  reciuired  the  amended  account;  and 
they  gav(;  me  reason  to  su})i)ose  that  the  account  was  finally  adjusted 
in  accordance  with  that  amemled  account. 

i}.  Mr.  (,'larke  has  stated  here,  on  both  of  his  examinations,  that  the 
hal)ir  was  to  ]»iit  in  tlie  \(>uchers  for  more  than  was  actually  due,  for 
the  puriKise  (»f  increasing  the  estimate  for  the  allowance  ? — A.  That  is 
what  he  explained  to  me  afterwards. 

(}.  That  is  correct,  is  it  1' — A.  I  think  so.  That  was  his  explanatioui 
to  me.  He  (old  me  that  was  the  custom  he  followed  in  the  collector's 
ollice  in  Kaleigh. 

(^.  How  could  that  allowance  be  increased  in  that  way  when  it  had 
alreadv  been  made.' — A.  The  allowances  could  be  increased  during  the 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  407 

fiscal  year,  just  as  they  were  fioiii  the  ix'iiod  tVoiii  .Mav  I'O  to  Jmie  .")(l, 
1873. 

Q.  That  was  on  account  of  the  alKtlishiiieiit  of  the  assessor's  office? — 
A.  It  was  done  in  other  instances  in  North  Carolina,  in  tlie  history  of 
the  seryice,  and  Chirke's  idea  was  that  if  we  caUed  the  attention  of  the 
ofdcers  in  this  way  that  we  wanted  more  money,  that  we  might  jioto 
worlc,  and  they  would  make  a  larger  allowance.  That  was  his  explana- 
tion to  me. 

Q.  The  sixth  charge  relates  to  these  Kestler  vouchers,  and  in  answer 
to  it  you  say,  "Kestler  received  pay  as  deputy,  but  never  did  service  in 
that  capacity."  That  is  the  charge.  You  quote  it  as  you  see  there,  and 
your  answer  is — 

Mr.  Kestler  was  aiqioiiitod  a  tleputy  at  the  earuest  solicitaliou  <>i"  iironiiiicnt  nir-u. 
I  kept  him  a  short  time,  and  Ibund  he  would  not  suit  me  as  sueh,  and  he  was  <lis- 
charged. 

AMiy  not  make  more  explanation  of  this  matter  than  that  ? — A.  I  do 
not  understand  you. 

Q.  Why  do  you  now  make  a  fuller  explanation  of  the  Kestler  matter, 
but  in  this  answer  you  simply  say  how  he  was  appointed  and  why  you 
discharged  him? — A.  Have  I  mentioned  now  anything  more  in  this 
connection  excei)t  the  substance  of  that  ? 

Q.  There  is  a  statement  in  another  place,  in  answer  to  the  eighth 
charge:  "Mr.  ^Martin  did  service  as  deputy,  but  never  received  pay  as 
such.  He  was  named  with  others  on  the  1st  of  ]\ray,  1873,  as  one  of  the 
deputies  employed  in  the  district  at  that  time.  The  name  of  H.  Y,  Mott, 
then  acting  as  deputy,  should  have  appeared  on  the  June  abstract,  Form 
03,  and  his  vouchers  should  have  been  taken.  Clarke  made  a  mistake 
in  sending  Kestler's."  That  is,  I  presume,  iu  sending  Kestler'suame  in- 
stead of  H.  Y.  .Mott?— A.  That  about  covers  it. 

Q.  That  is  for  you  to  sa}'.  Your  statemeut  here  in  the  answer  does 
not  seem  so  full. — A.  I  thought  it  was  of  more  importance  now,  an 
inquiry  being  made  as  to  it  especially  ;  I  want  to  satisfy  the  committee. 

Q.  You  said  the  other  day  and  this  morning — at  least  you  left  the 
impression — that  you  had  treated  Mr.  Perry  with  some  very  harsh  lan- 
guage about  something,  and  you  thought  he  started  Crane  after  you. — 
A.  That  was  my  impression  at  the  time ;  after  he  found  out  about 
these  things  he  became  my  warm  friend. 

Q.  Bid  not  you  state,  iu  your  letter  to  Mr.  Douglass,  November  12, 
1871,  that  Mr.  Eamsay  instigated  Mr.  Crane  after  you? — A.  Crane  was 
in  there  looking  around,  and  he  and  liamsay  joined  in,  I  suppose. 

Q.  In  this  letter  you  say  (reading) : 

Craue  came  into  my  district  with  acknowledged  prejudice  against  me.  He  found  a 
congenial  spirit  in  J.  A.  Ramsay,  a  depntj'  of  mine,  and  a  kinsman  of  the  man  you 
have  aripoiuted. 

I  discharged  Ramsay,  soon  after  he  aud  Crane  got  together,  for  failing  to  pay  over 
money  he  had  collected  which  belonged  to  the  office.  Eamsay  is  still  a  defaulter. 
Craue  was  aware  of  his  having  kept  or  held  money  that  he  had  collected,  for  it  was 
called  to  his  attention  months  afterwards  by  parties  holding  Ramsay's  receipts;  still 
he  was  displeased  when  I  discharged  Ramsay.  They  went  to  work  to  lia\e  me 
removed,  one  from  revenge,  the  other  from  prejudice,  added  to  a  disposition  to  make 
reputation. 

A.  Read  it  all. 

Q.  (Continuing:) 

Crane  found  out  long  ago  that  I  have  been  guilty  of  no  crime.  He  believes  to-day 
that  I  have  been  guilty  of  none ;  still,  for  the  gratiticatiou  of  his  prejudice  and  vanity 
he  is  willing  to  see  me  suffer  the  injury  of  this  removal.  They  have  ransacked  the 
district  and  failed  to  find  anything  against  me  personally,  but  have  had  to  resort  to 
the  acts  of  others  to  make  auv  heaihvav  at  all. 


408  COLLECTIOX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

A.  Please  read  more. 
Q.  (Continuing:) 

Now.  Mr.  Douglass,  I  cau  bring  as  good  attestations  of  personal  integrity  as  any  man 
in  North  Carolina — integrity  of  a  character  incompatible  with  the  imputations  these 
men  are  attempting  to  cast  upon  me. 

I  know  you  do  not  want  to  injure  me,  and  I  am  satished  if  you  knew  all  about  me 
personally,  and  about  my  otTlicial  aflt'airs,  and  also  about  the  men  who  are  assisting 
Crane  in  this  matter,  you  would  not  subject  me  to  the  humiliation  of  this  removal. 

God  knows  I  have  suffered  over  my  business,  and  I  most  respectfully  request  you  to 
reconsider  your  action.  If  I  had  done  any  crime  I  would  not  ask  it.  It  will  be  a 
concession  on  your  part,  but  a  magnanimous  one,  which,  if  you  do  exercise,  you  will 
yet  say  was  an  act  oi  shnpic  justice. 

I  am  quite  weary,  or  I  would  write  more  fully.  As  soon  as  I  am  able  I  will  come  on 
to  Washington. 

A.  I  wrote  tliat  on  a  sick-bed  to  ]Mr.  Douglas.s,  and  that  did  not  alter 
the  statement  that  I  made  at  first,  that  Crane  came  into  the  district  with 
acknowledged  prejudice,  and  that  he  joined  with  Itamsay  in  a  movement 
against  me. 

Q.  I  believe  you  have  said  that  you  made  no  record  of  Kestler's 
appointment,  and  gave  no  notification  of  it  to  the  department? — A. 
iso ,  sir ;  I  had  no  record  of  these  deputies  at  that  time,  you  will  find, 
all  the  way  through. 

Q.  Did  Martin  not  get  any  pay? — A.  Xo,  sir;  because  that  was  not 
allowetl.  The}'  only  allowed  for  a  certain  number  of  deputies,  and  Mr. 
Martin  was  a  ganger,  but  had  other  duty.  I  thought  he  could  probably 
aflbrd  to  do  that. 

Q.  Could  you  not  have  arranged  the  allowance  between  them  so  as 
to  allow  each  one  to  get  something  ?  Were  you  not  allowed  by  the  de- 
partment to  do  so  if  you  thought  proper  ? — A.  I  do  not  think  that  was 
regular.  I  believe  there  was  an  instance  or  two  of  that  in  the  district, 
but  at  that  time  these  men  were  going  to  work  there  as  gangers,  and  it 
was  understood  at  the  time  if  we  could  get  the  allowance  it  would  be 
all  right,  they  would  get  the  money ;  but  if  1  could  not,  they  would 
have  to  put  uj)  with  it.  I  went  to  Mr.  Josephs,  who  was  at  the  head  of 
the  division  of  accounts  at  that  time,  and  asked  him  what  to  do  about 
it.  He  told  nie  the  best  thing  was  to  i)ut  these  assistant  assessors  to 
work — as  many  as  I  thought  necessary  to  look  after  the  special  taxes — 
and  he  had  no  doubt  but  that  the  department  would  allow  it.  I  did  so, 
and  they  nuule  no  allowance  for  it.  I  did  not  understand  the  run  of  the 
de]»artment  in  those  days. 

(}.  ]\Ir.  Martin  was  a  deputy  ? — A.  I  think  he  was  a  ganger. 

(f.  He  was  a  dei)uty,  also;  you  have  him  in  the  abstract  as  such. — A. 
I  do  not  know  whether  lie  was  in  the  service  at  any  other  time  except 
as  ap])ears  in  that  1878  abstract. 

Q.  Was  he  drawing  ])ay  as  a  ganger? — A.  I  do  not  know  that. 

(}.  Was  Lilliugton  a  ganger  as  well  as  deputy  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  Was  Ik'  drawing  pay  as  a  gaugcr  ? — A,  I  do  not  know  that;  I 
think  so. 

(}.  ^N'alker  \\:is  drawing  full  ]»ay  in  both  capacities? — A.  Yes,  sir  ; 
he  <lid  (luring  that  w  inter. 

().  Why  did  you  not  east;  it  oil"  to  the  men  so  that  oiu'  should  not 
draw  fidl  pay  in  one  capa(;ity,  and  the  other  fail  to  get  tuiy  '! — A.  Lil- 
liugton was  (Miiployed  as  a  ganger  at  the  same  time  that  AValker  was, 
all  through  that  winter,  Walk<'r  was  in  town,  and  was  a  favorite  man 
in  his  special  luisine.ss,  lookingalter  illicit  distilleries,  and  a  formidable 
one,  too — one;  of  the  best  Jiieu  in  the  district,  and  tin',  most  useful. 

(}.  Who  Joined  with  yon  in  the  purchase  of  the  "J'ioneer"? — A.  I 
think  y\r.  JWyan  was  oin- ;  A.  11.  (Hllcspie,  and  Mr.  lirown. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  409 

Q.   W'iis  Mr.  Lusk  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  Mr,  Lusk  v.as  in  if,  too. 

Q.  Wiiom  (lid  voLi  get  to  edit  it? — A.  Mr.  Kves. 

Q.  C.  W.  Eves  !— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  did  yoii  pay  hiiu  for  liis  service  as  editor? — A.  Eves  was  at 
that  time  a  general  stoi'('kee]>er,  and  he  probably  acted  as  deputy  too. 

Q.  Did  he  have  much  work  to  do  ? — A.  I  do  not  remember.  There 
is  not  much  work  on  that  side  of  the  mountains.  You  have  some  knowl- 
edge of  it.  There  are  not  nmny  distilleries  over  there ;  l)ut  we  are 
compelled  to  keep  an  officer  there. 

Q.  Y'es,  if  tliere  is  need? — A.  It  is  impossible  to  send  a  man  from 
this  side  of  the  mountain  ;  in  those  days  he  would  have  had  to  travel 
some  hundred  or  two  hundred  miles  out  there  to  withdraw  a  barrel  of 
whisky. 

Q.  Mr.  E.  1>.  Drake  is  a  general  storekeeper,  is  henot! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  has  been  since  when  ? — A.   I  think  it  was  since  187C. 

Q.  :N"ot  back  of  1870  ?— A.  1S75  or  0. 

Q.  Drawing  full  pay  except  Sundays  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  his  work  not  nominal? — A.  You  are  mistaken  altogether  about 
that,  I  think.  Mr.  Drake  does  as  much  service,  I  think,  as  any  general 
storekeei)er  in  the  district.  Davie  County  is  in  his  division.  As  I  re- 
member, he  has  in  the  neighborhood  of  fifty  distilleries,  and  always  a 
considerable  number  of  them  under  suspension.  There  is  no  doubt 
about  that;  he  does  his  business  except  in  the  way  I  told  you,  when 
called  upon  to  go  to  two  or  three  places  at  once. 

Q.  He  is  also  the  editor  of  the  "American"? — A.  Y'^es,  sir;  he  writes 
some  for  it,  as  well  as  others. 

Q.  But  has  been  until  lately  owner  and  editor? — A.  No,  sir;  the 
other  man  is  the  owner,  and  has  been  for  live  or  six  years  ;  I  think  ever 
since  3Ir.  Drake  has  been  storekeeper,  and  probably  a  year  or  two  be- 
fore. 

Q.  Has  Mr.  Drake  permission  from  the  Commissioner  to  engage  in 
any  other  business  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  he  lias  ;  I  think  that  he  has 
an  idea  that  it  does  not  interfere  with  his  duties,  and  that  the  spirit  of 
the  law  is  not  interfered  ^vith  l)y  reason  of  it. 

Q.  How  long  was  W.  P.  Drake  a  storekeeper  ? — A.  He  never  was  a 
storekeeper. 

Q.  What  was  he  ? — A.  He  was  a  deputy. 

Q.  A  deputy,  I  mean — how  long  ? — A.  1  forget;  you  have  got  it  in 
that  abstract ;  I  think  six  months. 

Q.  His  duties  were  nominal? — A.  Y'es,  sir ;  although  a  man  by  the 
name  of  Howell,  and  another  man  there,  in  accordance  to  my  reply  to 
^Ir.  Crane,  did  do  his  work  during  that  period.  I  see  I  have  stated 
there  in  that  reply  to  Crane  that  he  did  little  work  ;  and  that  is  my 
recollection  about  it. 

Q.  How  much  monej'  was  lifted,  collected,  or  contributed,  as  you 
please  to  put  it,  from  the  officers  of  your  department,  in  the  prohibition 
campaign  of  1881  ? — A.  I  think  very  little. 

Q.  Y'ou  do  not  know  how  much  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  it  was  a  one-sided 
business;  it  went  with  a  whoop. 

Q.  There  was  some  collected  for  that  purpose  ? — A.  I  think  so. 

Q.  Do  you  know  how  much  of  it  was  spent  in  support  of  a  paper  ed- 
ited by  Mr.  Spellman  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  whether  any  of  it  was  or 
not. 

Mr.  Pool.  We  object  to  that  class  of  questions  generally,  but  not  in 
this  particular  case. 


410  COLLECTION    OF    LNTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

The  Chairman.  Would  you  object  to  my  asking;-  liiia  about  individ- 
uals tliat  were  paid  iu  that  cami)aign  ? 

Mr.  Pool.  Yes,  sir  ;  I  do  object. 

Senator  McDill.  We  have  a  right  to  show  assessments  for  the  cam- 
l)aigu  fund,  but  this  is  not  in  the  line  of  our  investigation. 

(The  question  was  ruled  out  by  a  majority  vote.) 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  cau  tell  how  much  had  been  raised  in  that  prohibition  cam- 
paign ? — A.  Ko,  sir. 

Q.  Cau  you  give  us  an  idea? — A.  Xo  ;  I  have  no  recollection.  I  do 
not  think  there  was  any  general  contribution  by  the  officers  for  it.  I 
think  that  here  and  there  the  men  put  iu  sometliing. 

Q.  Has  not  your  office  been  administered,  in  part,  with  a  view  of 
making  converts  from  your  political  opponents  ?  I  mean  by  that — if  you 
do  not  understand  me — have  you  not  picked  up  young  men  of  large 
family  connections  and  got  them  into  positions  in  the  departments  with 
the  expectation  that  they  would  become  Republicans,  and  bring  their 
friends  with  them  ' — A.  1  would  say,  in  reply,  that  I  had  two  purposes 
in  selecting  men  for  these  places.  One  was,  as  I  stated  this  morning, 
to  transfer  as  much  as  possible  the  odium  that  was  put  ui)on  the  serv- 
ice there  in  that  State,  to  the  Democratic  party;  aiul  appointments 
were  made  there  among  the  J)emocrats  against  the  wish  of  my  political 
friends,  and  with  that  view.  I  know  I  was  threatened  at  one  time  with 
a  move  against  me  on  account  of  that.  I  escaped  at  the  time  by  de- 
fending' myself  in  my  conversation  with  my  political  associates,  that  it 
would  result  iu  the  way  that  you  see  it  has.  That  is  one  defense  of  my 
course,  and  1  confess  that  I  luive  selected  men  with  that  view  to  some 
extent.  I  had  the  places,  and  men  were  applying  for  them,  aiul  I  would 
give  them  to  such  as  T  thought  best,  and  with  both  these  views. 

Q.  Did  you  not  get  a  good  many  converts  out  of  the  jaws  of  the  law, 
so  to  speak,  and  were  not  many  men  accpiitted  for  violating  the  revenue 
laws  and  permitted  to  escape  on  i)ayment  of  the  costs  on  condition  that 
they  would  embrace  the  true  faith  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  I  never  nmde  an 
arrangement  of  that  kind  in  my  life. 

Q.  I  do  not  ask  you  particularly. — A.  I  would  be  the  man  in  that  dis- 
trict to  effect  such  an  arrangement.  I  know  it  was  charged  directly  to 
me,  and  that  it  was  thought,  too,  by  your  friends,  the  members  of  the 
Democratic  party,  that  tliat  was  done.     It  was  a  mistake. 

(^.  NN'as  not  the  present  collector,  your  successor,  a  strong  Demo- 
crat ? — A.  Y<'S,  sir. 

(}.  Did  he  not  get  into  some  trouble  with  the  Revenue  Department! — 
A.  Xo,  sir;  he  never  had  any  serious  trouble  with  the  Revenue  Depart- 
ment. There  was  never  anything  that  he  might  be  the  least  alarmed 
about  or  afraid  of.  lie  had  some  spirits  seized.  It  was  an  ordinary  case 
of  sri/urc  of  his  wagon  and  team. 

i5y  Mr.  Poor,: 
().  State  the  date. — A.   It  was  before  my  time — before  I  went  iu  as 
collcctoi'.     I  iiaxc  heard  that  since.     That  was  before  Mr.  Coo])('r  became 
a  ii*f|»ul>lican.     W'licu  I  came  into  position  there  as  collector,  Mr.  Cooper 
was  still  a   I  )cmorrat. 

I!y  the  ClIAIWMAX: 
(^>..    In  iSTli? — A.    I  tiiink  so;  yes;    I  am   sure  of  it.     1  think  he  was  a 
Democrat  iu  isTij,  ;iud  think  it   was  during  that  campaign  he  becauu'.  a 
Ifepiiblicaii,  or  later,  l)ul    there   was   u;)  charge  against  him  whatever, 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  411 

and  never  has  been  since  I  have  been  in  the  bnsiness.  I  am  satisfied 
that  Mr.  Cooper  was  without  any  restraint,  and  was  in  no  danger  on 
account  of  that  matter  at  any  rate.  It  went  before  the  (Commissioner 
and  was  dismissed,  and  no  evidence  was  brought  against  him.  And 
that  liappened  tliree  oVfour  years  before  lie  became  a  Ucp'i^'^'^^'i"- 

Senator  Dill.  Is  he  talking  about  some  papers  that  we  have  had  here  i 

The  Chairman.  Yes,  sir;  from  Commissioner  Holmes. 

Q.  There  is  one  part  of  the  case  you  nexer  heard,  perhaps;  that  is  the 
allegation  that  an  important  witness  ran  Mway  from  the  State,  and  that 
was  the  reason  why  it  was  dismissed.  The  man  they  first  examined, 
and  upon  whose  information  the  warrant  was  sworn  out,  did  not  appear 
at  the  trial.  That  is  only  the  statement  of  Mr.  Holmes;  noreccn-d  made 
of  that  except  the  witness  called  and  failed  to  respond.  AVas  not  .^Ir. 
James  Williams,  of  your  county  there,  a  fierce  Democrat  until  he  got 
into  some  trouble  with  theEevenue  Department? — A.  He  was  a  J)emo- 
crat.     He  got  caught  out  there  blockading. 

Q.  He  came  out  of  the  troidde  a  Republican,  did  he  not? — A.  1  have 
been  hearing  that  question  asked  here.     I  do  not  know  how  that  was. 

Q.  It  was  not  very  long  after  that  that  he  became  a  Republican  ? — A. 
I  do  not  know,  and  I  do  not  want  to  prejudice  Mr.  Williams,  and  do  not 
want  to  leave  any  prejudice  by  not  making  a  statement  of  relief  to  him.. 
I  remember  nothing  about  it.  I  think  if  it  had  been  done  I  would 
have  known  something  about  it,  because  I  was  the  collector.  It  hap- 
pened after  I  came  in,  and  I  think  that  Mr.  Williams  became  a  Repub- 
lican after  I  came  into  the  collector's  office.  He  is,  at  any  rate,  a  very 
earnest  Republica  n . 

Q.  Did  you  know,  when  Mr.  Cobb  was  appointed  at  ^Nfr.  Pearson's 
request,  that  he  was  guilty  of  these  frauds  that  are  charged  i — A.  I  un- 
derstood that  he  had  been  charged  with  them.  He  wanted  some  other 
place,  and  I  refused  to  give  it  to  him  on  that  account.  These  raiders — 
you  know  how  that  is  yourself 

Q.  Yes;  I  understand  it  is  something  different  from  the  responsibility 
of  the  regular  dei)uties.  I  will  ask  you  if  there  is  any  instance  where 
you  appointed  Demociats  in  jjursuance  of  the  policy  you  have  spoken 
of,  that  they  did  not  become  Republicans,  but  continued  to  preserve 
their  political  integrity? — A.  Yes,  sir;  there  were  several  instances. 

Q.  In  the  majority  of  cases,  however  ? — A.  They  came  to  act  with  the 
Republican  party.  I  will  say  that  in  all  my  dealings  with  men  in  these 
appointments,  that  I  made  it  a  point  not  to  speak  of  political  matters  in 
connection  with  their  appointment,  because  I  had  more  respect  for  a 
man's  feelings.  I  did  not  want  a  man  to  have  any  such  state  of  teeling 
Avith  regard  to  the  matter. 

Q.  How  did  you  make  known  your  wishes  to  the  officers  under  your 
control  in  legard  to  the  assessments — by  a  general  letter  addressed  to 
them? — A.  I  want  to  say,  and  have  it  appear  in  proper  language,  in 
speaking  of  this  appointment  of  Democrats,  that  I  made  it  a  rule  never 
to  allude  to  politics  when  I  was  approached  with  regard  to  appoint- 
ments. It  was  not  made  a  condition  of  any  man's  avqiointmeut.  There 
may  have  been  two  or  three  instances  where  I  Avanted  to  get  rid  of  a 
man,  and  told  him  that  I  did  not  care  to  appoint  him  on  account  of  his 
politics.  But  I  made  it  a  rule  not  to  have  that  a  condition  in  appoint- 
ing officers,  but  left  it  to  its  own  course,  and  left  him  free  to  act  as  he 
chose.  AVith  regard  to  political  assessments,  I  wrote  a  letter,  and  it 
was  received  by  each  man  who  contributed  anything.  In  that  letter  1 
stated  that  no  one  would  be  interfered  with  in  his  position  if  he  failed 
to  contribute,  and  he  was  under  no  constraint  with  regard  to  it;  that 


412  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

was  about  the  substance  of  it.  That  I  would  have  do  eoiitributious 
uuless  they  were  williugly  given. 

Q.  I  omitted  to  ask  you  a  question  about  Mr.  Tenipleton.  Was  it 
ever  brouglit  to  your  knowledge  that  Mr.  Teini)let9u  paid  W.  M.  Cooper 
$30  a  month  for  board  ? — A.  I  think  Mr.  Temple'ton  tokl  me  that,  but 
it  was  after  he  left  Mv.  Cooper's. 

Q.  Did  you  not  regard  that  as  an  indirect  division  of  his  pay? — A.  I 
do  not  know  whether  I  inquired  whether  Mr.  Tem])leton  kept  his  horse 
there.  It  was  more  pay  than  was  customary,  I  regard  8liO  a  month 
as  being  a  fair  price  for  a  man  and  his  horse  in  that  country ;  and  then 
Mr.  Cooper  lived  well,  and  had  things  comfortable  about  his  house. 

Q.  Did  you  at  any  time  borrow  some  money  from  old  nmn  Temple- 
ton? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  pay  it  back  ? — A.  It  was  under  a  misapprehension,  and 
with  regard  to  this  very  thing  I  was  talking  about  some  time  ago — this 
newspaper  business,  I  was  under  no  necessity  of  borrowing  money  from 
Mr.  Tenipleton  that  I  know  of,  and  that  matter  ran  along — my  recollec- 
tion of  it  is  because  of  this  newspaper  transaction — until  he  called  my 
attention  to  it.     I  have  not  been  in  the  habit  of  borrowing  from  oflicers. 

Q.  You  repaid  it,  but  you  do  not  remember  when? — A.  I  do  not  re- 
member when  it  was;  but  whenever  he  called  it  to  my  attention,  I 
think. 

By  Mr.  Pool: 

Q.  You  have  had  deputies  commissioned  who  were  not  receiving  pay, 
had  you  not  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  It  was  when  they  were  on  duty  they  received  pay  ?-^ A.  Sometimes 
they  did  some  service,  but  did  not  get  pay;  but  I  had  men  on  commis- 
sion about  through  the  district,  if  any  matter  was  to  be  attende<l  to 
in  a  certain  locality,  or  it  became  necessary  to  have  work  in  a  locality 
where  he  lived;  frequently  one  deputy  droi>])ed  out  and  I  put  another  in 
for  the  time,  and  we  changed  them  about  in  that  way. 

Q,  The  point  I  wish  to  make  is,  that  deputies  held  commissions  that 
were  not  on  duty  and  did  not  get  pay. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  order  to  your  deputies  not  to  issue  warrants  at  tlie  time 
named  was  nothing  more  than  a  ]>ostponement  of  the  prosecutions? — 
A.  Tbat  Avas  the  way  I  regarded  it.  That  the  parties  who  were  guilty 
of  any  unlawful  action  would  be  subject  to  the  same  punishment  by 
<lelay  that  tlicy  A\ould  be  otherwise.  Of  course,  there  were  some  in- 
stances in  which  they  might  have  left  the  country  and  gone  out  of  the 
way,  but  I  regarded  the  matter  as  a  mere  i)ostpouement,  as  you  say. 

Q.  Your  obJe(;t  was  to  show  to  the  court  a  sort  of  protest  against  the 
matter,  and  you  thought  the  good  of  the  service  required  you  to  do  it  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  and  I  believe  it  <lid  good. 

Q.  JJut  the  Commissioner  thought  the  proper  remedy  was  a  little  dif- 
fenMit,  and  that  was  to  transfer  the  cases  to  the  circuit  court.  You 
•said  that  Peiiy  and  IJamsay  instigated  the  Crane  nuitter,  but  did  you 
not  mean  tliat  "Sir.  IVrry  instigated  it  by  sending  Crane  into  the  dis- 
trict ' — A.  That  is  what  I  mean, 

(^  And  :\Ir,  Ifamsay  instigale<l  it  after  he  got  into  Ihe  district ?— A, 
Yes,  sii-;  I  was  sick  at  llie  time.  I  wrote  that  letter  in  l>ed,  and  it  had 
goiKi  out  of  my  mind  until  (loveriKU-  N'aiice  mentioned  it, 

().  \'oiir  idea  was  that  Mr.  Perry  sent  him  in  theic  for  the  ])ur])0se  of 
getting  up  something  to  ;it1'ect  your  I'cmoval  t — A.   Yes,  sir. 

().  And  then  Mr.  i:nnis;iy  helped  liini  to  get  t  hese  things  lixed  nj)  ? — 
A.   \'es,  sir. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  413 

By  tlie  Chairman  : 

Q.  I  want  to  ask  you  a  question  about  your  restoration  to  office. 
Was  not  your  restoration  the  effect  of  political  indiience  ? — A.  I  do  not 
think  so.  It  Avas  purely  a  matter  of  justice,  and  was  so  regarded  by  tlie 
President  and  those  who  interceded  for  nie.  ]Mr.  J)oiiglass,  it  seeiiis^ 
was  indisjmsed  tohave me  reinstated,  and  .Air.  IJristow  seemed  disinclined 
too.  I  think  that  Avas  a  selfish  i)urpose  of  liis,  because  I  was  not  a  snp- 
l^orter  in  his  political  ambition.  I  know  he  did  not  regard  me  as  one  ot 
his  friends. 

Q.  And  Mr.  Bristow  and  3Ir.  Douglass  oi)posed  your  restoiation  '. — 
A.  I  do  not  know;  I  heard  that  yesterday.  Thad  an  idea  that  Mr.  IJris- 
tow  was  opposed  to  it.  I  did  not  think  it  was  on  account  of  these 
things,  because  Mr.  Douglass  said  to  me  yesterday  it  was — I  under- 
stood him  to  say,  he  was  opposed  to  it — because  I  was  uot  giving  my 
personal  attention  to  the  office.  It  is  the  tirst  time  I  have  had  a  con- 
versation with  him  on  the  subject. 

Q.  Do  you  know  Avhere  Mr.  Crane  is  now,  who  made  this  report  ' — 
A.  I  think  he  is  in  California. 

Q.  He  is  not  in  this  part  of  the  country? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  Did  Mr.  Cameron  see  the  President  for  you? — A.  Xo,  sir  ;  he  did 
not  go  to  the  President. 

Q.   Whom  did  he  go  to?— A.  To  Mr.  Douglass. 

D.  C.  Pearson  recalled  to  make  the  following  statement : 
I  think  I  answered  yesterday  to  a  question  that  I  never  dealt  in 
whisky  at  all.  I  wish  to  state  that  immediately  after  the  war,  when 
there  were  a  great  many  soldiers  there,  I  and  other  merchants  did  sell 
whisky,  and  I  paid  no  tax  either.  I  did  that  myself,  and  I  did  it  through 
others.  I  can  fully  and  emphatically  say  that  for  years  I  have  in  no 
way  assisted  in  cheating  or  defrauding  the  government  in  any  manner, 
through  and  with  whisky;  not  in  the  slightest  degree  for  anytime 
since  I  have  been  a  government  official,  or  prior  to  that  time  for  years. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  You  mean  that  directly  after  the  war,  before  the  internal  revenue 
system  got  into  operation  there,  and  really  when  there  was  hardly  any 
State  law,  without  a  State  license  you  and  other  merchants  sold  whisky 
in  Morganton? — A.  That  is  what  I  meant  to  say. 

Q.  During  the  period  befV»re  the  laws,  State  and  Federal,  got  to  be 
established  ! — A.  There  might  have  been  some  revenue  laws  then. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  Did  5'ou  know  that  Mr.  Burr  had  bought  out  that  distillery  ? — A. 
Never,  until  Mr.  Walton  had  stated  it. 

J.  A.  Clarke  sworn  and  examined  in  behalf  of  Dr.  Mott. 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Question.  Do  you  know  that  Henry  Mott  rendered  service  as  deputy 
there,  during  the  last  quarter  ending  June  30, 1873  ? — Answer.  Yes,  sir; 
I  know  that  Dr.  Henry  Mott  was  a  deputy. 

Q.  How  did  you  come  to  fail  to  send  in  a  voucher  for  him  ? — A.  That 
was  one  of  my  njistakes,  I  thiidv. 

Q.  I  want  yon,  upon  an  examination  of  these  vouchers,  to  state  wheth- 
er Dr.  Mott  signed  any  of  the  original  vouchers  that  were  put  in  for  Mr. 
Kestler — the  abstracts  for  the  three  quarters. — A.  (Examining.)  Dr. 


414  COLLECT lOX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Mott  (lid  not  sign  any  of  these  originals.     1  think  I  so  stated  in  my  evi 
dence. 

Q.  You  signed  his  name  for  him  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Y'ou  say  he  was  not  sworn? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Were  yon  anthorized  to  sign  Dr.  Mott's  name  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he 
anthorized  me  to  sign  his  name  to  all  vonchers. 

Q.  Did  yon  consider  it  a  forgery  to  sign  his  name  ? — A.  Not  in  the 
least. 

Q.  That  appeared  rather  indirectly  in  yonrevidence.-=— A.  I  think  the 
chairman  asked  me  if  it  was  a  forgery;  I  did  not  so  consider  it. 

Q.  Yon  say  yon  did  not  consider  it  a  forgery,  becanse  he  had  anthor- 
ized yon  to  sign  his  name? — A.  No,  sir;  1  did  not. 

Q.  Did  Dr.  Mott  sign  the  amended  vonchers? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  signed 
the  amended — those  three  amended  vonchers  from  the  1st  of  October  to 
December,  1S72,  Jannary  to  March,  1873,  and  April  to  Jnne,  1873. 

Q.  Embracing  the  three  qnarters  of  the  Kestler  vonchers.  Mr.  Hen- 
derson said  here  yesterday  that  yon  made  a  mistake  in  making  np  his 
account,  by  which  yon  sent  in  a  voncher  for  a  less  amonnt  than  he  was 
entitled  to;  did  you  sometimes  make  mistakes  of  that  sort  in  making 
np  acconnts  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  we  often  made  mistakes.  I  had  a  great 
deal  to  do  then. 

Q.  You  were  called  on  frequently  by  ofiflcers  to  nmke  up  their  acconnts 
besides  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  1  was. 

Q.  Did  yon  feel  anthorized  to  sign  these  Kestler  vouchers  for  Kest- 
ler?— A.  1  did  at  the  time,  or  would  never  have  signed  them.  I  did  not 
consider  those  vouchers  worth  anything  of  value.  1  said  that  at  all 
times. 

Q.  I  think  yon  signed  Kestler's  name  to  one  or  more? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
I  had  written  time  and  again  for  it.  Dr.  Mott  was  away  so  much  that 
I  did  not  ask  him,  but  jnst  went  on  and  sent  the  vonchers.  I  always 
stated  that  I  wonld  not  consider  them  any  good,  for  the  government 
only  adjusted  the  account  under  the  letter  of  allowance,  as  it  was. 

(}.  Yon  did  not  consider  it  any  forgery  at  all  to  put  Kestler's  name  to 
them? — A.  No,  sir;  or  would  have  written  more  like  hiui ;  but  did  not 
try  to  do  that. 

Cross-examination  by  the  Chairman  : 

().  Yon  swore,  when  on  the  stand  before,  that  Dr.  Mott  did  sign  them, 
did  yon  not  ? — A.  1  don't  think  1  did,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  not  tell  me  that  you  nnide  them  up,  and  Dr.  Mott  signed 
them  as  a  matter  of  form  ? — A.  I  said  that  the  collector  sometimes 
signccl  the  reports  in  blank;  I  made  that  statement,  but  I  don't  think 
he  signed  eitlier  one  of  tliose  as  you  i)ointed  them  out  to  me.  The  name 
will  show  itself  that  Dr.  .Alott  did  not  do  it.     1  did  it. 

(^>.  \'ou  sai<l  in  your  cross-examination  when  yon  made  uj)  those 
voueheis  that  Dr.  ^lott  was  olT  in  the  district  doing  campaign  work. — 
A.  ^Sometimes  he  was. 

(^  (Quoting)— 

I  made  iiji  siicli  vuiiflici-.s  :i.s  I  lia<l  and  st'iit  thoiii  on.  He  (Dr.  Mott)  was  off  in  the 
district  doiiij^  caniitai^in  work,  and  tilings  oC  tliat  kind,  and  I  bolicvc  I  sinned  one  of 
Ml'.  Krstjci's,  Moi  kniiwini^  al  that,  lime  lie  was  not  a  deputy,  hut  al'terwards  found 
out,  and  uiadf  .-niK'ndi'il  voui'liers. 

(}.  W'lial  campaign  was  going  on  in  March,  1873? — A.  I  nu'ant  to 
state  in  that  statement  tliat  Dr.  .Alott  was  off  in  the  campaign,  and  on 
other  l»nsiii4Nss. 

().  Was  that  a  mistake  olyoiiis  .' — .\.  I  did  not  intend  It)  say  it  that 
way,  because  in  all  the  campaign  he  was  off. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  415 

Q.  And  Kestler"  was  not  a  deputy";  tliat  was  anotlicr  mistake? — A. 
I  don't  Lhink  I  said  that. 

Q.  "I  believe  1  signed  one  of  Mr.  Kestler's,  not  knowing-  at  that  time 
he  was  not  a  deputy";  that  was  the  remark. — A.  After  I  signed  it. 

Q.  For  a  man  wlio  only  had  been  in  the  oHice  once — Mr.  Kestler. 

A.  I  saw  him  there  often  at  Salisbury. 

Q.  Did  he  make  auy  reports  to  you  1 — A.  Xo. 

Q.  Was  he  doing  any  work  '? — A.  No. 

Q.  How  came  you  to  think  he  was  in  there  for  nine  montlis  after  Oc- 
tober ? — A.  I  stated  time  and  again  that  I  considered  those  vouchers 
worth  nothing',  and  they  were  never  paid — ;just  went  to  till  up  the  rei)<>rt; 
that  is  the  way  I  looked  over  the  matter;  at  least  I  did  not  consider 
them  worth  anything  then. 

Q.  They  were  all  sworn  to,  were  they  not? — A.  Never  have  been. 

Q.  Did  not  the  law  require  them  to  be  sworn  to  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  they 
so  read;  but  they  never  have  been  in  all  my  clerking. 

Q.  Did  not  the  law  require  it ;  did  yon  not  know  when  you  signed 
the  vouchers  that  the  law  required  these  men  to  swear  to  them  ? — A.  No, 
sir. 

Q.  You  have  seen  the  law  ? — A.  I  don't  think  the  law  bears  on  that 
in  1872,  £0  far  as  1  know. 

Q.  (Quoting.) 

No  acconut  for  the  compeusation  for  services  of  auy  clerk,  or  other  person  employed 
in  auy  duties  in  relation  to  the  collection  of  the  revenue,  shall  he  allowed,  until  such 
clerk  or  other  person  shall  have  eertitied,  on  oath,  that  the  same  services  have  heen  per- 
formed, that  he  has  received  the  full  sum  therein  charged  to  his  own  use  and  henetit, 
and  that  he  has  not  paid,  deposited,  or  assigned,  or  contracted  to  pay,  deposit,  or  as- 
sign, any  part  of  such  compensation  to  the  use  of  any  other  person,  or  in  any  way,  di- 
rectly or  iudirectly,  paid  or  given,  or  contracted  to  iiay  or  give,  any  reward  or  com- 
pensation for  his  office  or  employment,  or  the  emoluments  thereof. 

Mr.  Pool.  What  date  is  that? 

The  Chairman.  Passed  May  1822;  brought  forward  1S74:. 

The  Witness.  That  law  passed  since  I  had  anything  to  do  with  the 
revenue. 

Q.  You  say  you  never  have  seen  that  law  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  the  circulars 
were  issued  to  all  the  officers  after  I  left  there. 

Q.  You  knew  that  Walker  was  a  deputy  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  did  not  know  that  Kestler  was  not  a  deputy? — A.  No, 
«ir;    there  were  a  great  many  men  commissioned  there  to  different  work. 

Q.  Was  not  that  circular  sent  out  because  of  their  sending  up  vouchers 
that  were  not  sworn  to? — A.  It  was  issued  all  over  the  TJnited  States. 

Q.  What  did  you  suppose  the  certificate  meant,  if  not  sworn  to? — A. 
Of  course  it  is  put  there  ;  but  I  never  done  it. 

Q.  Why  di<l  you  put  your  name  certifying  it  was  sworu  to  ? — A.  As 
a  matter  of  form. 

Q.  That  was  false  ? — A.  You  may  consider  it  so. 

Q.  To  certify  that  it  has  been  sworu  to  when  it  has  not  been;  do  you 
not  consider  that  a  falsehood? — A.  I  did  not. 

Q.  Did  you  consider  it  the  truth? — A.  A  mere  nmtter  of  form.  The 
government  did  not  lose  anything  by  it;  did  not  adjust  on  them. 

Q.  And  because  the  government  prescribed  that  form  you  changed  it, 
and  thought  proper  to  have  a  better  way  of  your  own  and  different  from 
the  government's  ?— A.  I  might  and  might  not. 

Q.  That  is  a  criminal  matter  to  certify  to  M-hat  is  false? — A.  I  don't 
tnow  about  that. 

Q.  It  was  a  falsehood  that  you  certified  to  ? — A.  1  did  not  certify  to  it. 

Q.  Is  not  that  your  handwriting? — A.  I  did  not  swear  to  it. 


416  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    EEVENUE    IN 

Q.  You  certified  to  it? — A.  I  ouly  signed  it  as  a  matter  of  form. 

Q.  Was  it  not  a  falsehood  even  if  you  signed  it  as  a  matter  of  form? — 
A.  They  did  not  swear  to  a  falseliood. 

Q.  Cannot  a  man  tell  a  lie  without  swearing-  to  it? — A.  If  an  oath  is 
required  in  a  certain  way,  a  man  telling  a  lie  can't  do  that  without  swear- 
ing to  it. 

Q.  Suppose  he  is  required  to  certify  without  being  sworn;  you  could 
have  told  a  falsehood  that  way  or  any  other  way.  Why  do  you  not 
answer  the  question  ? — A.  I  do  not  care  to  ansAver  a  personal  question. 

Q.  You  say  you  did  certify  that  it  was  sworn  to  ? — A.  I  say  I  signed  it. 

Q.  And  you  signed  your  name  as  "sworn  to  before  me"  ou  such  a 
date? — A.  The  paper  shows  for  itself. 

Q.  That  is  so,  is  it  not? — A.  You  have  the  paper — the  evidence. 

Q.  You  say  you  knew  Walker  was  a  deputy? — A.  I  think  he  was  com- 
missioned. 

Q.  You  did  not  know  Kestler  was? — A.  Did  not. 

Q.  You  knew  the  man  who  was  not  a  deputy  and  put  vouchers  in  for 
him,  but  forgot  to  put  any  in  for  the  men  who  were  deputies? — A.  I 
think  I  stated  that  those  were  put  in  as  a  matter  of  form. 

(}.  Could  you  not  have  put  down  the  truth  as  a  matter  of  form? — A. 
[  wrote  Kestler  for  blanks. 

Q.  Why  did  you  jtut  down  the  name  of  a  man  that  you  did  not  know 
was  on  the  list,  and  did  not  put  down  tlie  name  of  Walker,  whom  you 
knew  was  a  deputy  ? — A.  Walker  was  a  ganger  there,  and  drawing  pay 
as  a  ganger  antl  deputy. 

Q.  So  you  did  not  put  his  name  down  as  a  deputy  ? — A.  It  was  an 
oversight  of  mine ;  I  coukl  have  done  it  as  eas^^  as  to  put  down  Kest- 
ler's. 

Q.  Why  did  you  not  do  it,  then;  you  say  that  Dr.  Mott  did  not  sign 
this  original  one  ? — A.  He  did  not  sign  either  of  those  originals. 

(}.  He  signed  the  other  ? — A.  Signed  the  amended. 

Q.  When  I  examined  you,  did  you  not  say  that  Dr.  Mott  signed  this 
as  a  matter  of  form  ? — A.  I  don't  think  I  said  that;  Dr.  Mott  signed  the 
amended  ones. 

(}.  Did  you  not  say  that  he  signed  the  original — the  one  I  held  in  my 
hand — as  a  matter  of  form? — A.  Have  you  the  date?  You  held  the 
wrong  one,  and  showed  uie 

<^>.  I  say  I  held  this  original  voucher  in  my  hand. — A.  I  did  not  so 
understand  it;  anybody  can  see  I  did  not. 

(^.  Mr.  Dwire  is  acquamted  with  the  handwriting  of  Dr.  Mott,  is  he 
not  ? — A.  llv.  ought  to  be. 

(}.  He  swore  the  other  day  that  the  amended  copy  was  not  Dr.  Mott's 
handwriting,  and  he  thought  tliis  was  the  original,  but  was  not  sure  of 
it. — A.   1  cannot  help  what  Mr.  Dwire  swore. 

if.  Yon  say  it  is  so  i)lain  and  jyalpable? — A.  It  is  to  me.  I  wrote  it 
so  often  and  knew  how  he;  wrote  it. 

if.   Did  you  i)ay  A\'alker  his  money  ? — A.   I  i>aid  him  part  of  it. 

(}.  When? — A.  W(!  had  a  rnnningac<-ount,  \ValI;er  and  I.  I  got  him 
onf  of  tiireeor  Ibiir  s(;rii|»es,  and  sent  him  money  after  he  went  to  [llinois. 
I  was  a  kind  of  agent.  lie  roomed  with  me,  and  we  were  intimate,  and 
he  h'ft  some  debts  for  me  to  pay.  1  lived  up  all  1  could,  and  sent  liim 
money  to  Illinois. 

i).  ^'on  were  on  the  slaiul  here  twice ;  why  did  you  notmake  the  cor- 
re.ctif)n  while  here/ — A.   About  those  vouchers  1' 

().  Yes. — A.  I  uiuhTstood  that  was  tiie  way  I  said  i(.  I  was  sur- 
prised when  I  heard  (lie  e\i(|euee  was  otherwise. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  417 

Q.  You  read  your  testimony  over  ? — A.  No,  sir;  I  left  that  iiiglit. 

Q,.  You  never  read  your  testimony  over  ? — A.  Nctt  tlie  "  reeulled" 
testimony.     1  left  that  night. 

Q.  You  said  in  your  answer  to  me  that  you  made  out  these  voucher 
accounts  for  a  larger  amount  than  was  due,  for  the  i)uri)oseof  iina-eas- 
ing  the  estimate? — A.  I  wanted  to  show  we  ought  to  iiavemore  money 
in  tlie  district. 

Q.  You  said,  further,  it  was  known  to  Dr.  Mott  and  by  eveiybody ; 
that  you  made  no  secret  of  it  ? — A.  No  secret  of  it — of  the  accounts  be- 
ing larger  than  they  were  ? 

Q.  Let  me  read  you  a  little  from  your  testimony  (quoting): 
By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Aud  yon  generally  made  np  all  tlie  papers  in  the  office  to  be  sent  to  the  depart- 
ment f — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  (lid  not  submit  them  to  Dr.  Mott;  yon  usually  signed  them  witliout  expla- 
nation to  him  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  hardly  ever  looked  at  the  face  of  the  pai)ers. 

Q.  He  signed  them,  relying  npon  your  experience  ? — A.  Sometimes  had  not  seen 
them  at  all ;  sometimes  signed  them  in  blank. 

Q.  That  is  correct,  is  it  ? — A.  A  great  many  other  papers  besides  the 
disbursement  accounts. 
Q.  ((Quoting): 

Q.  On  the  faith  of  your  experience  as  being  sent  there  by  the  supervisor? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

A.  There  were  120  odd  reports  to  make. 
Q.  (QiToting:) 

Q.  All  these  deputies  gave  jou  authority  to  sign  their  names,  when  they  were  ab- 
sent, to  formal  papers  f-^A.  Generally  so  ;  I  am  not  certain. 

Q.  These  papers  were  made  up  (juarterly? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  every  three  months. 

Q.  The  department  knew  the  number  of  deputies  down  there? — A.  Yes,  sir;  they 
were  allowed  so  many,  at  such  prices. 

Did  the  department  know  of  Kestler  being  a  deputy  ? — A.  I  really 
thought  they  knew  the  number  of  deputies  down  there. 

Q.  That  was  another  mistake? — A.  I  am  not  responsible  for  the  tes- 
timony. 

Q.  (Quoting:) 

Q.  And  if  a  deputy's  name  went  in  that  whs  not  among  the  number,  the  department 
would  know — although  you  certihed  to  it — it  was  a  mistake? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

A.  They  would  know  the  name  in  the  report,  of  course. 

Q.  If  Kestler's  name  went  into  that  number  of  deputies  to  the  de- 
partment, they  would  know  that? — A.  Did  not  mean  that.  They  would 
know  the  deputy's  name  was  there. 

Q.  Tliey  would  not  know  that  he  was  no  longer  a  deputy  ? — A.  Not 
at  that  time. 

Q.  (Quoting:) 

Q.  So  there  was  no  danger  of  anybody  being  deceived  np  here? — A.  No;  no  money 
here  would  then  be  allowed. 

Q.  There  was  no  possibility  of  drawing  any  money  on  such  things? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Now,  was  not  some  money  drawu  on  the  Kestler  vouchers  ? — A. 
The  Kestler  vouchers  had  nothing  to  do  with  the  government.  They  al- 
lowed Dr.  IMott  so  much  money  to  run  his  ottice.  We  sent  a  voucher 
from  anybody  there  ;  so  running  his  office  did  not  require  him  to  furnish 
names  of  men  when  appointed.  AYhat  they  did  was  only  a  matter  of 
form. 

Q.  It  did  not  matter  whether  the  men  did  the  service  or  not  ? — A.  Only 
that  the  work  be  done  in  the  district  by  Dr.  Mott  upon  a  certain  amount. 
S.  xMis.  lie 27 


41 H  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Joliii  Smith  lia<l  done  the  work  aud  Bill  Jones  kept  the  pay  ? — A. 
Not  at  all ;  did  not  so  look  at  it. 
Q.  (Quoting:) 

Q.  Did  yon  feel  free  to  make  up  these  accounts  of  thof-c  fleimties  if  any  of  them 
hajipeued  to  be  absent,  aud  to  put  their  names  to  them  ? — A.  I  thoMj>ht  it  no  harm. 
I  did  nothing  I  thoujjht  was  wrong  in  the  matter. 

Q.  You  regarded  it  alias  a  matter  of  form  ;  the  department  knew  all  about  it  here? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

t^.  So  your  mistake  could  luit  have  any  effect  up  here  at  all  ? — A.  No  effect,  as  the 
department  did  not  allow  anytliing  of  that  kind. 

Q.  AVliat  would  you  consider  serious  business,  if  this  was  all  a  matter 
of  form? — A.  1  don't  know. 

Q,  When  a  man  signed  a  voucher,  swore  to  it,  that  he  had  done  work, 
aud  it  went  in  there  among  others  to  the  government — that  was  a  mat- 
ter of  form? — A.  Did  not  pay  on  those  things. 

Q.  What  did  they  pay  on? — A.  On  the  letter  of  allowance,  allowing 
him  to  hire  so  many  to  do  the  work. 

Q.  Did  you  make  out  a  list? — A.  The  money  was  all  paid  before  one 
of  those  things  were  signed  by  anybody. 

Q.  Paid  to  vrhom? — A.  To  the  men  working  there. 

Q.  You  heard  that  Walker  testified  he  did  not  get  his  money  until 
afterwards? — A.  He  got  money  paid  along. 

Q.  If  Walker  got  the  money,  why  make  out  a  voucher  in  the  name  of 
Kestler? — A.  A  mere  matter  of  form. 

Q.  Please  tell  us  what  was  the  substance  and  not  a  matter  of  form — 
a  serious,  substantial  thing — in  the  revenue  department? — A.  I  do  not 
understand  your  question. 

Q.  Of  swearing  to  a  voucher  and  getting  mone.\  on  it? — A.  Did  not 
get  money  on  it.  Never  has  been  money  collected  on  a  form.  The 
government  did  not  i)ay  on  tlie  voucher,  oidy  for  those  papers  showing 
the  money  spent  by  the  collector  in  running  his  oftlce. 

Q.  When  a  collector  takes  a  voucher  from  one  of  his  deputies  and 
sends  it  off  to  tlie  department  he  gets  credit  on  his  compensation  ac- 
count?— .V.  They  adjust  the  account  according  to  his  vouchers,  showing 
how  much  he  had — what  they  allowed  him  at  first. 

Q.  I  have  asked  you,  and  will  ask  you  once  more,  if  the  signing  of  a 
sworn  voucher,  or  a  voucher  required  to  be  sworn  to  by  law,  in  order  to 
obtain  ])ay  for  the  services  of  a  deputy  or  ganger,  was  a  matter  of  form, 
what  was  a  matter  of  substance  connected  with  the  revenue  department 
there? — A.  Never  signed  one  to  get  pay,  for  the  money  was  allowed  be- 
fore tlic  vouclier  went  there. 

Q.   llow  di<l  tlic  d('i)uty  get  his  ])ay  ? — A.  Prom  Dr.  Mott. 

Q.  ll<»\v  would  he  sliow  Dr.  Mott  tliat  he  had  done  tlie  work? — A.  P>y 
Ills  rejiorts,  and  Dr.  Mott  knew  all  his  deputies. 

Q.  lie  did  not  know  whether  the  man  worked  all  the  time  or  not? — 
A.   lie  liired  them. 

Q.  How  about  the  ganger  who  gauged  a  lot  of  whisky? — A.  The 
ganger  mad(!  his  reiK)rt. 

(^.  A  «!ertined  coj)y? — A.  No,  sir;  service,  amount  of  work  done,  and 
expenses.     Dr.  Mott  di<l  not  ])ay  the  ganger  at  all. 

(}.  Take  a  deputy  or  clerk  ;  di<l  you  not  make  a  man  swear  to  his 
vou<;her  to  g«'t  that  money? — A.   lie  made  out  a  vo.icher  like  this. 

(}.  .Inst  as  a  nieic  mat  ler  of  form? — A.  Madci  a  A'oueher  every  three 
montiis. 

(}.  Tell  me  something  not  a  mat  lei*  of  form  ;  what  kind  of  vouehej' in 
count  ition  with  a  )e\  cnuti  otlicei'  was  not   a  matter  of  form,  but  some- 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  419 

thinj;  substantial  ? — A.  I  sni)i)<)S('  tlic  Filth  Auditor's  report;  tlie  ad- 
justing" account  was  substantial, 

Q.  That  is  not  made  out  in  the  collector's  otiice? — A.  It  is  about  the 
collector's  ottice, 

Q.  Tell  me  somethin<>  in  the  collector's  office  that  would  be  a  matter 
of  substance.    Let  me  read  you  a  little  more  of  your  testimony  (quoting) : 

Q.  Yon  swore  the  other  day,  when  yon  were  exuniined  in  chief,  tliat  he  did  know  of 
it ;  and  that  it  was  done  for  a  certain  pnrpo.se  ?  — A.  That  was  in  the  statement  I  niaile 
^t  tlie  time  that  the  office  of  assessor  was  abolished — not  about  the  Kestler  matter. 

Then  the  chairman,  iu  quoting-  from  your  testimony  in  chief,  says: 

Q.  You  made  these  accounts  uj)  for  these  gaugers? — A.  Yes,  sir;  made  up  their 
A'onchers. 

Q.  In  the  case  of  the  deputy  collectors  you  say  that  was  done  for  the  purpose  of 
increasing  the  estimate,  as  you  have  explained? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  was  known  tn  Dr.  Mott  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  known  to  everybody  almost;  wo 
made  no  secret  of  it  at  all,  an<l  I  think  Mr.  Wlieeler  rather  advised  to  make  as  big  a 
showing  as  we  could,  knowing  we  had  a  large  district  to  look  after. 

Q.  The  approval  of  these  vouchers  was  signed  and  sworn  toby  Dr.  Mott,  as  set  forth 
in  his  affidavit,  and  you  can't  say  that  he  did  not  know  what  he  swore  to  ?— A.  Wo 
never  swore  each  other. 

That  is  correct,  is  it  f — A.  Never  swore. 
Q.  (Quoting.) 

This  certificate  that  it  was  sworn  to,  then,  is  false? — A.  We  did  not  swoar  to  it. 

Y^ou  dodged  there? — A.  You  wanted  to  make  it  appear  false,  and  1 
did  not  (consider  it  so. 

Q.  You  say  that  now? — A.  I  do  not  consider  it  so. 

Q.  (Quoting.) 

Q.  Although  the  certificate  says  he  did  swear  to  it;  then  that  is  a  forgery.  Did  Mr. 
Kestler  at  any  time  authorize  you  to  make  out  these  vouchers  for  him? — A.  I  am  not 
certain  ;  a  great  many  of  the  deputies  did. 

A.  I  had  a  power  of  attorney  from  every  officer  in  the  district. 

Q.  Had  you  one  of  Kestler's? — A.  [  think  I  had,  verbally. 

Q.  Why  not  say  so  the  other  day? — A.  I  said  not  certain. 

Q.  Are  you  not  certain  of  it  ? — A.  Xot  certain. 

Q.  You  hardly  had  verbal  authority  from  a  man,  and  not  certain  of 
it,  that  was  in  the  service.  If  In?  were  not  in  the  service  would  you 
have  I — A.  If  he  had  never  anything  to  do  with  the  service  never  would. 

Q.  If  he  had  something  to  do  with  it,  and  was  discharged,  he  hardly 
would  give  you  authority  to  sign  his  nanu' '! — A.  If  he  had  nothing  to- 
do  with  it  he  hardly  would  do  sucli  a  thing  as  that.  I  have  written 
powers  of  attorney  in  Atlanta  from  ofii^'ers  and  many  have  been  re- 
turned to  them, 

Q.  Why  did  you  not  state  before  that  Dr.  Mott  did  not  sign  those 
vouchers  at  all,  and  never  saw  them  if — V.  I  think  1  did,  sir — what 
you  have  been  asking  about  through  this  investigation. 

Q.  No  you  did  not.  I  cannot  tiiid  any  testimony  in  which  you  state 
he  did  not  sign  any  of  them  at  all.  1  will  read  .you  a  little  more  from 
your  examination  the  first  time  (quoting) : 

Q.  You  say  that  Dr.  Mott  did  not  ku(»  w  about  making  up  these  Kestler  accounts? — 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  In  your  direct  examination  you  said  he  did  know  what  was  spoken  of  then; 
that  was  after? — A.  That  happened  in  l-iT:};  a  different  matter.  I  did  not  speak  of 
the  Kestler  matter  at  all  in  the  exauiinatu)n  the  otiitr  day. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  You  spoke  generally  of  the  deputies'  nccounts,  and  he  was  a  deputy  ? — A.  I  had 
forgotten  it — about  auotLe:-  deputy;  had  not  thmight  about  it  for  ten  years,  and  said 
1  wo. lid  b:ive  to  make  an  explanation  to  the  coiiniiitfee. 


420  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

By  Mr.  Fool: 
Q.  lu  regard  to  Mr.  Kestlcr  ? — A.   Yes,  sir. 
Q.  Which  is  the  exi)lauati()ii  you  make  here  now  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  the  Chaihmax  : 

Q.  Then  you  wish  your  exphmation  to  stand,  that  Dr.  Mott  knew  of  all  the  rest  of 
the  aecounts  made  out  except  Kestler's '! — A.  He  knew  all  of  1^73  when  we  took  the 
vouchers  for  so  many.     He  knew  of  them,  but  the  other  matter 

Q.  "Which  other  matter? — A.  The  Kestler  matter. 

Q.  The  Kestler  matter  was  in  '72  or  'I'.if — A.  It  was  in  '72  or  early  part  of  '73;  the 
assessors  office  was  abolished  about  the  10th  of  May,  "73.     I  think  he  was  in  then. 

You  say  lie  knew  all  of  tliem  in  '73  ? — A.  He  knew  a  great  maiij'.     1 
did  not  expect  it  to  sound  that  way. 

Q.  That  is  another  mistake? — A.  We  talked  of  Martin  and  Lilling- 
ton,  but  not  entirely  about  them,  about  patting-  them  in  the  old  account. 
All  knew  that  Kestler  had  been  in  before. 

Q.  (Quoting). 
A.  He  knew  of  them,  but  the  other  matter- 


Q.  "Which  other  nuitter? — A.  The  Kestler  matter. 

Q.  The  Kestler  matter-  was  mi  '72  or  '73? — A.  It  was  in  '72  or  early  pnrt  of  '73;  the 
assessor's  ofiice  was  abodshed  about  the  10th  of  May,  '73.     I  think  he  was  in  then. 

A.  We  were  s])eaking  of  vouchers.  I  think  his  vouchers  were  in 
then. 

Q.  You  don't  mean  to  say  that  he  was  in  oftice  then  ? — A.  I  thought 
Kestler  was  in  in  '7;3. 

Q.  Uo  .you  know  when  II.  Y.  Mott  was  paid  his  money? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  not  know  when  Walker  was  paid  in  full! — A.  I  forget  the 
time  I  paid  him  the  last.  1  sent  it  to  him.  He  vra's  paid  off  and  on. 
I  had  a  livery  stable  in  '73  with  him. 

Q.  Had  you  paid  him  in  full  before  he  signed  that  last  voucher? — A. 
I  don't  remember  abont  that ;  I  remember  sending  the  last  of  the 
money  to  Illinois. 

Q.  The  voncher  was  signed  in  Illinois  in  Augnst,  '74? — A.  I  don't  re- 
member the  time  I  sent  it. 

Q.  Do  you  know  when  those  vouchers  were  filed  in  the  department? — 
A.  They  were  sent  after  they  were  received,  but  nothing  paid  on  then). 

().  Yon  went  out  of  orii(;e  alter  that? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(^).  These  amended  voiicheis  were  not  put  in  until  after  Crane's  report, 
and  yon  an<l  the  gangers  were  all  indicted? — A.  I  think  not. 

Q.  How  came  .von  to  nmke  out  \onchers  and  send  them  to  Illinois, 
when  not  in  oftice  ? — A.  I  was  a  kind  of  agent  for  him,  and  corresponded. 
I  had  some  of  his  money,  and  paid  for  some  of  his  scra[)es  there,  and 
other  debts  lor  him.     We  were  trading  together  all  the  time. 

(^).  You  say  you  thiidv  your  mistake  arose  by  my  holding  the  wrong 
voncher  ? — A.  The  wrong  one.     I  can  tell  my  writing  from  Dr.  Mott's. 

(}.  Yon  looked  at  all  three,  and  said  he  did  not  sign  the  original,  but 
the  amended;  and  you  think  the  mistake  arose  by  my  holding  the 
wrong  voiiclier  before  you  t — A.   [  say  the  wrong  one. 

().   Who  suggested  tliat  to  yon  ? — A.  No  one  did. 

().  No  one  snggested  that  to  yon  a(  all  after  yon  came  here? — A.  I 
was  snrpiised  tiiat  I   had  sworn  that  Dr.  i\Iott  had  signed  the  original. 

i).  Did  an.ybody  donbt  that  Dr.  Mott  had  signed  the  amended  one? — 
A.   1  never  heard  tiiat. 

(.^.  And  thei'<',lbiv  the  only  (pu'stion  was  about  the  original  ? — A.  No 
(pH!Htion  aliont  the  original,  only  the  amended. 

Q.  You  think  the  mistake;  arose  by  Dr.  Mot  I  signing  a  xoi.cher,  which 
lie,  admifteil  and  everybody  else  admitted,  and  not  the  one  in  dispute? — 


Tllfc;    SIXTH    DLSTiilCT    OF    XORTH    CAROLINA.  421 

A.  Tliat  is  it.  The  doctor  writes  a  liea\ior  liaiid  than  1  (h) — writes  a 
aiervous  liaiid. 

Q.  This  is  the  certificate  that  I  called  your  attention  to:  ''Sworn  to 
unci  subscribed  before  nie  this  lltli  day  of  January,  1873";  and  you  say 
that  it  is  not  true.  .Maybe  you  will  a^ree  to  that,  lie  was  not  sworn  '. — 
A.   I  say  he  was  not  sworn  to  that  original. 

Q.  And  the  same  is  true  for  all  three — the  last  (juiirter  of  isTi*  and 
tlie  two  first  <]uarters  of  1873? — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  say  th;it. 

Q.  Tiie  conii)laint  1  luive  with  you  is,  that  you  did  not  tell  us  this 
before?— A.  I  think  I  did. 

Q.  Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  nobody  suggested  to  you  that  that 
■svas  the  wayyon  had  made  a  mistake  ? — A.  I  don't  know  about  it.  1  think 
when  I  got  here  this  time,  I  was  surprised  that  I  had  said  that  Dr. 
jVIott  had  signed  the  original.  It  so,  I  did  not  so  intend  it;  I  did  not 
,so  consider  it,  and  must  have  looked  at  the  wrong  paper. 

Q.  I  asked  you  if  somebody  did  not  suggest  that  you  looked  at  the 
wrong  one? — A.  I  think  Mr.  Pool  nnght  have  said  there  was  some  mis- 
understanding in  it;  might  have  done  so;  don't  say  for  certain;  we  were 
talking  about  it. 

By  Mr.  Pool: 

Q.  Does  it  make  the  sliglitest  difference  whether  you  made  a  mistake, 
■or  you  looked  at  the  wrong  pa])er,  or  wiiether  on  account  of  its  not  being 
taken  down,  or  an}'  other  reason? — A;  I  suppose  not. 

Q.  Was  it  not  possible  when  the  vouchers  were  handed  you,  that  you 
M-ere  looking  at  a  different  one  from  the  one  the  person  handing  called 
jour  attention  to? — A.  That  was  easy  done  on  tliese,  where  a  person 
8igns  the  back  and  front  of  a  paper. 

Q.  The  whole  bundle  taken  together? — A.  I  will  explain  that.  I 
signed  one  side,  and  the  other  side  was  signed  by  J)r.  Mott.  There  is 
one  side  (indicating)  and  there  is  another. 

Q.  Did  I  or  anybody  else  suggest  what  you  were  to  answer  to  in  this 
connection? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  I  thiiik  Mr.  Dwire  got  confused  about  it.  It  appears  in  the  testi- 
mony of  Mr.  Dwire  that  he  stated  that  he  believed  Dr.  Mott  signed  one 
■of  those  papers;  was  it  possible  for  him  to  have  been  speaking  about 
another  ])ai)er,  not  meaning  the  one  that  his  attention  was  attempted 
to  be  called  to? — A.  I  don't  know,  sir.  I  suppose  he  ought  to  know  Dr. 
Mott's  signature. 

Q.  Now  a  bundle  of  pai)ers  ])la(,'ed  before  him  signed  on  both  sides, 
and  his  attention  being  called  to  them,  might  he  not  mistake  which  ac- 
count was  the  amen<led  or  not  ? — A.  1  thiidc  so;  he  must  have  made  a 
mistake  of  that  kind. 

(}.  Do  yon  know  if  these  papers  handed  to  you  when  you  were  re- 
quired to  say  whether  it  was  the  signature  of  Dr.  Mott  or  not,  were 
simjdy  designated  by  ''  this  paper"  or  "that  paper"  ? — A.  I  think  that 
is  the  way  they  were  ]Hit  to  me — did  I  sign  "this"  or  "  that"  ? 

Q.  Not  explained  as  "this  is  the  amended  "and  "that  is  the  original"? — 
A.  I  think  not. 

Q.  You  say  you  went  away  without  having  read  this  testimony? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  I  was  anxious  to  leave.  I  was  examined  Saturday  and  left 
Saturday  night. 

Q.  Have  you  not  found  some  complaint  made  to  you  by  the  stenog- 
rai)her  that  you  answered  in  too  low  a  tone? — A.  Yes,  sir;  many  times 
today. 

Q.  He  has  done  that  very  often  before  ? — A.  I  think  it  was  done.  I 
remember  speaking  louder  when  here  before. 


422  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Is  it  not  possible  tbat  some  of  your  answers  have  been  takei> 
down  wrong  in  that  wayf — A.  Such  things  niiglit  happen. 

Q.  It  seems  that  none  of  these  vouchers  were  sworn  to  by  Dr.  Mott — 
these  originals — and  you  say  you  signed  them  as  being  sworn  to,  though 
he  did  not  swear  to  them;  did  not  that  apply  to  all  the  vouchers  sent 
up  here  as  well  as  to  Mr.  Kestler's  f — A.  This  applied  to  the  whole  of 
the  accounts. 

Q.  Do  you  not  think  that  ran  clear  up  to  the  time  Mr.  Crane  made  his 
report? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  so. 

Q.  Do  yon  not  know  it  ran  up  to  that  time  t — A.  Don't  just  now. 

Q.  So  that  with  all  the  ofticers  this  was  the  nnderstanding,  that  these 
vouchers  were  handed  in  and  sent  off  as  a  mere  matter  of  form,  there 
being  no  possibility  of  the  office  being  deceived  here? — A.  That  is  my 
understanding  of  it. 

Q.  Do  yon  know  what  Mr.  Horah  says  about  it  ? — A.  In  speaking  of 
this — after  I  was  clerk  for  Dr.  Mott — of  signing  these  A'ouchers  and 
talking  of  it  generally,  he  said  he  had  done  it  often — signed  ganger's 
names  to  acconnts  in  order  to  ])ut  his  reports  in  as  required  before  the 
10th  or  15th  of  the  month,  and  he  had  not  heard  of  any  trouble  abont 
that,  and  no  one  can  say  but  that  John  M.  Horah  is  an  intiuential  man 
iu  Eowan  County  ;  he  is  the  clerk  of  the  court  in  Salisbury. 

Q.  He  was  in  Mr.  Wiley's  office  ? — A.  He  was  clerk  under  Wiley  all 
the  time  he  was  collector. 

Q.  You  were  clerk  in  Collector  Young's  office  and  district,  and  the 
same  thing  was  done  there? — A.  Yes,  sir;  did  the  same  thing  there;, 
that  is  where  I  got  the  idea;  I  never  thonght  it  was -any  harm;  never 
heard  of  any. 

Q.  Your  testimony  was  read  to  you,  in  which  you  said  that  papers 
were  sometimes  shown  to  Dr.  Mott  and  examined  by  him,  and  sometimes 
not '! — A.  That  has  reference  to  the  entire  revenue  business,  I  think.  I 
don't  think  it  had  reference  to  this  special  business. 

Q.  Did  not  Dr.  Mott  sign  a  great  many  papers  except  these  vouchers  t 
— A.  When  I  was  clerk,  there  were  122  reports  nuide  up  quarterly. 

Q.  You  meant  it  to  apply  to  all  these? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  is  w^hat  I 
meant ;  to  the  general  accounts  of  the  office — reports,  rather. 

Q.  One  huiiared  and  twenty-two  a  month?— A.  122  a  month,  and 
(piarterly. 

().  Would  it  not  be  very  difficult  for  the  collector  to  give  his  personal 
attenti(»n  to  them  and  swear  to  the  truthfulness  of  them  all? — A.  Yes,. 
sir;   I  think  so,  so  nuicli  of  it,  and  very  few  do  it  in  this  country. 

Q.  Do  not  the  absolute  necessities  of  the  service  require  the  law  to  be 
disregarded  in  this  res))ect ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  so;  it  is  impossible 
for  the  collector  to  be  right  on  hand  all  the  time  for  the  reports,  and 
they  would  be  sometimes  delayed. 

il.  You  said  that  no  report  was  made  here  of  the  names  of  <leputies. 
who  were  in  service ;  has  it  not  been  the  fact  that  the  agents  of  the 
bureau  here  were  continually  examining  into  that  and  reporting  upoi» 
it? — A.  T1h\\-  were  very  often  examining  the  ollice,  the  books,  and 
accounts. 

(2.  Js  it  not  the  fact  that  t lie  deputies,  or  all  who  were  acting  as  depu- 
ti(;s,  w«'re  examined  l»y  them  an<l  they  knew  them  ?  Is  itiiot  likely  that 
the.se  men  would  in(|uire  if  Kestler  was  a  deputy  for  eight  months  or 
more,  when  his  vouchers  had  been  sent  in  t—\.  1  think  they  would  find 
out  when  they  got  down  there. 

i).  Wa.s  not  the  office  acliially  in.s|»e<-ted  and  these  incjuiries  made  by 
the  agents  I  mm  t  ime  to  t  ime  1' — A.    I  should  think  so. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  423 

Q.  Ill  point  of  fact,  do  not  these  agents  come  along  from  time  to  time 
and  inquire  into  this  thing? — A.  Yes,  sir;  all  tin-  time,  I  think,  since  I 
left;  there  are  a  great  many  more  otlicerstUan  there  was;  we  liad  agents 
there  very  often  to  examine  as  to  the  correctness  of  the  money  collected 
and  disbursed. 

Q.  You  were  continually  on  the  lookout  for  agents? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
never  knew  when  they  were  coming — never  notitied. 

().  Did  tliey  not  iniiuire  what  officers  were  in  service  ? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
ha(l  to  know  what  was  going  on.  Tliose  examiners  did  not  pay  much 
attention  to  that.     Tlie  revenue  agents  that  came  looked  around. 

The  Chairman.  I  confined  myself  to  reading  his  former  testimony  on 
this  very  point.     You  are  inquiring  into  the  general  agents. 

Mr.  Pool.  You  made  a  point  on  it.  • 

The  Chairman.  He  swore  to  that  before  that  it  was  <h)ne  in  the  fourth 
district. 

Mr.  Pool.  I  do  not  recollect  tliat  he  did.  You  asked  him  in  your 
cross-examination  if  ther-e  was  any  report  made  to  the  bureau — whether 
they  knew  that  Mr.  Kestler  was  not  an  officer.  In  reply  to  it  I  am  en- 
deavoring to  show  that  in  all  probability  the  bureau  here  did  know. 

The  Chairman.  You  are  asking  what  is  usually  done  in  all  their 
offices,  and  everything. 

Mr.  Pool.  That  is  in  explanation  of  the  Avitness's  answer  that  he 
considered  it  a  mere  matter  of  form,  and  it  was  so  considered  by  the  de- 
partment and  among  other  offices.  It  seems  to  me  the  witness  would 
be  corroborated  by  the  bureau  itself. 

Q.  You  were  asked  by  the  chairman  why  you  made  the  mistake  of 
sendingoff  vouchers  in  Kestler's  imme  instead  of  Walker's;  was  it  simply 
a  mistake  of  yours? — A.  I  suppose  it  must  have  been  ;  could  certainly 
make  nothing  by  it. 

i}.  Is  it  not  right  for  a  man  to  give  a  reason  for  a  mistake  ? — A.  I 
suj^pose  so;  it  happened  that  way,  and  had  no  intention  of  defrauding. 

Q.  You  know  of  no  other  reason  to  give  why  you  did  make  this  mis- 
take f— A.  No. 

D.  C.  Pearson  recalled  and  made  the  following  statement  (examin- 
ing abstracts) : 

I  am  very  well  acquainted  with  the  doctor's  handwriting.  All  these 
clerks  do  sign  his  name  very  similar  to  his  own  signature.  The  differ- 
ence I  recognize  in  this  signature  (indicating)  is  more  in  the  letter  "M." 
It  begins  higher  in  his  own  signature  than  in  that.  I  see  this  is  marked 
"  original."  I  see  that  difference  in  the  letter  M  on  the  amended 
voucher  which  I  had  in  my  hand  from  the  signature  in  the  original. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  In  what  respect  ? — A.  It  is  larger,  and  begins  higher  up.  In  the 
amended  I  would  take  that  to  be  Dr.  Mott's  own  signature.  I  would 
not  take  that  in  the  original — the  one  I  have  in  my  hand — to  be  his 
signature.  Mr.  Cole  and  Mr.  Brown  all  sign  his  name  somewhat  sim- 
ilar to  himself.     I  don't  know  who  signed  that. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Have  you  noticed  each  quarter  *? — A.  I  hold  in  my  hand  another 
paper — one  marked  "original"  and  the  other  amended.  I  recognize 
the  same  difference  in  these  two  papers  that  I  did  in  the  other  in  the 
letter  M. 

Q.  What  quarter  is  that? — A.  Ending  June,  1873. 


424:  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

By  Senator  McDill  : 
Q.  Please  say  vrhicli  you  think  is  tbe  genuine  siffuatnie. — A.  I  would 
take  that  to  the  amended  one  as  the  signature  of  the  doctor,  and  that 
to  the  original  as  not. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Examine  the  next  quarter. 

By  the  Chairman  (handing  paper  to  witness)  : 

Q.  Is  that  Dr.  Mott's  signature  (indicating)  ? — A.  As  I  told  you, 'these 
gentlemen  sign  his  name  very  much  like  he  does.  That  is  not  like  his 
signature— like  the  one  I  designated  as  his. 

Q.  Is  that  the  doctor's  or  not  (indicating  another)  ? — A.  1  don't  think 
it  is. 

Q.  Is  that  the  doctor's  or  not? — A.  That  is  not,  in  my  oi»inion. 

Q.  Is  that  (indicating  another) ! — A.  That  I  would  take  to  be. 

Q.  Xow,  is  tlint  (indicating  another)? — A.  I  would  consider  that  as 
his  handwriting. 

Q.  ^Vhat  (juarter  is  that? — A.  I  was  not  going  by  the  "amended" 
and  the  "original''  in  mv  judgment  of  it.  This  is  «1ated  October  10, 
1873. 

Dr.  MOTT.  Do  you  not  discover  in  those  hands  a  different  run  from 
the  pen,  more  ease  in  one  signature? 

The  Witness.  I  discovered  the  difference  not  so  much  from  that,  but, 
as  I  have  stated,  in  the  letter  M  and  the  crossing  of  the  "  t."  You  run 
your  cross  too  low  from  the  top  of  the  "t.'' 

Dr., iloTT.  Do  you  notice  a  nervousness  in  one? 

The  Witness.  Your  own  signature  seems  to  me  not  so  smoothly 
"written  as  the  other.  I  am  not  an  expert  in  handwriting,  but  I  have 
had  a  great  deal  of  experience  in  handwriting  as  clerk  of  the  court. 

By  Mr.  Pool: 

Q.  You  have  examined  the  signatures  to  the  originals  of  the  three 
quarters? — A.  Y'es,  sir;  I  presume  so;  those  seems  to  be  the  papers. 

Q.  And  you  say  you  think  it  is  not  Dr.  Mott's  hamlwriting  on  the 
originals  ? — A.  That  is  my  opinion.     ■ 

Q.  You  have  examined  the  amended  vouchers  for  the  three  quarters — 
the  sigiuitures  to  the  same? — A.  I  think  they  are  his  signatures. 

Q.  Are  you  well  acquainted  with  his  handwriting? — A.  I  am,  sir. 

(}.  So  that  you  could  it  tell  wherever  you  saw  it  ? — A.  1  think  I  could, 
sir. 

Q.  And  you  feel  coin])etent  to  give  an  intelligent  Judgnu^nt  l>etween 
a  signature  of  Dr.  .Alott's  and  one  forged  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  1  could. 
The  ditfiMcnce  between  tliosii  two  signatures  is  cpiite  marked. 

(^.  Vou  do  notthiniv  it  would  re(piireaii  expert  to  see  that  difference? — 
A.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  I'ooL.  There  is  nothing  I'urther  on  that  [toint  we  want  to  put  in. 

Adjourned  until  Monday,  rluly  17,  at  10  a.  m. 


AVasiiington,  D.  C,  M<nnlai/,  'July  17,  1882. 
The  coiiiniittee  Juet  at  10  a.  m. 
A.  T.  Davidson  swoin  and  examined  I'or  the  goxcrnnu'iit. 

I'.y  the  Chairman  : 

<>>iie.st  joa.    Wlieic  do  you  reside? — Answer.  I  icside  at  Aslie\  die,  N.  C 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NOKTH    CAROLINA.  425 

Q.  What  is  yonr  profession  ? — A.  I  am  a  lawyer  by  profession. 

Q.  How  long  have  yon  been  a  practicing  lawyer  ? — A.  Thirty-seven 
vears. 

Q.  Have  you  a  jn-etty  fair  general  knowledge  of  the  condition  of  the 
.sixth  district  of  North  Carolina — at  least  that  part  of  it  in  which  you 
live — in  relation  to  the  collection  of  internal  revenue  ? — A.  I  have  a  geu- 
■eral  knowledge  of  the  cliaracter  of  the  collection  district  west  of  the 
Blue  Eidge.     It  is  very  general,  though. 

Q.  It  has  been  stated  here  by  witnesses  that  one  of  the  chief  causes 
of  trouble  in  the  collection  of  the  internal  revenue  arises  from  the  con- 
duct of  J)enu)cratic  politicians,  newspapers,  and  si)eakers  in  dissatisfy- 
ing the  people  with  tlie  revenue  laws  a  id  enconragiiig  them  to  resist- 
ance; will  you  })lease  give  the  cotnmittee  your  information  as  to  wliat  dis- 
satisfaction there  is  in  the  district  to  the  laws,  and  to  tlie  method  of  their 
•execution,  and  what  are  the  causes  for  that  dissatisfaction  and  trouble? 
— A.  The  question  is  very  general.  I  will  undertake  to  give  my  opin- 
ion about  it,  and,  of  course,  it  is  but  an  opinion.  The  system — whether 
it  is  the  system  or  the  execution  of  it — has  been  unpopular  in  that 
country  and  subject  to  great  criticism.  There  have  been  abuses  in  the 
manner  of  executing  the  law,  and  there  has  been  resistance',  to  the  law, 
a  good  deal  of  it.  There  have  been  riolatlom — perhaps  a  better  word — 
of  the  law ;  perhaps  the  country  has  been  given  to  that  idea.  There 
has  been  a  good  deal  of  business  in  the  Federal  courts  in  the  execution 
of  the  internal-revenue  system.  It  is  my  idea  that  there  have  been 
many  abuses  there,  but  who  is  responsible  for  them  I  do  not  know.  I 
juay  use  the  term  that  it  is  unpopular — that  is,  the  manner  of  executing 
the  law.  There  is  a  good  deal  of  opposition  to  it  and  political  discus- 
sion about  it;  a  good  deal  of  stump-speaking 7>ro  and  cou,  justifying  it, 
and  appealing  to  the  people  to  be  loyal  to  the  law;  and  there  have  been 
exposures,  not  so  much  of  the  law  as  of  the  manner  of  its  execution. 

By  Mr.  Pool: 

<^.  There  are  two  classes  of  revenue  officers;  a  marshal  and  his 
offi<;ers  ])rosecute  offenders,  and  I  will  be  glad  if  Mr.  Davidson  will  bear 
that  fact  in  mind  and  make  a  distinction. — A.  I  will  do  so. 

The  Chairman.  I  have  no  objection  to  that. 

Mr.  Pool.  Whether  the  scope  of  the  power  of  this  committee  will 
reach  abuses  by  officers  of  the  court  is  a  question. 

The  Chairman.  Xo,  sir;  only  so  far  as  it  affects  the  collection  of  the 
internal  revenue  would  it  be  a  proper  sulyect  of  inquiry  under  the  reso- 
lution. 

Mr.  Pool.  Their  business  was  siuijdy  with  the  offenses  that  were  com- 
mitted, without  any  regard  to  the  revenue  or  not. 

The  Chairman.  The  commissioner  issues  warrants  binding  over, 
and  the  marshals  make  arrests. 

Mr.  Pool.  None  of  these  officers  are  connected  with  the  administra- 
tion of  the  collection  of  the  revenue,  wliich  is  the  expression  used  in 
the  resolution,  the  "  administration  of  the  collection  of  the  revenue." 

The  Chairman.  I  do  not  care  to  inquire  into  that  branch  particu- 
larly, but  still,  so  far  as  they  are  conne(;ted  in  any  way  with  the  collec- 
tion of  the  revenue,  I  think  it  is  a  legitimate  inquiry.  (To  the  witness:) 
You  can  distinguish,  coh)nel,  as  you  goon,  and  allude  to  anything  done 
by  marshals  and  revenue  officers. 

Mr.  Pool.  You  contine  him  now  to  the  revenue  officers? 

The  Chairman.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Witness.  Manv  of  the  abuses  under  the  law  haveb^eu  by  mar- 


426  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

shals,  perhaps  the  most  noted  of  tlierti,  that  is  true.  Really  I  am  hardly 
able  to  determine  between  those  who  were  marshals  and  those  who  were 
deputy  collectors,  I  huxe  been  trying  to  think  what  men  belonged  to 
each  class.  1  knew  notliing  of  their  commissions  or  powers  only  as  ac- 
cepted by  the  public.  If  I  understand,  Judge  Dick — if  you  will  allow 
me  to  state — made  an  order  as  judge  that  a  United  States  commissioner 
should  not  issue  any  jirocess  on  the  application  of  a  marshal,  but  it 
would  be  only  on  the  application  of  a  revenue  collector.  I  believe  that 
was  the  rule.  I  may  be  mistaken  about  it.  Com[)laints  became  so  uni- 
versal that  Judge  Dick  did  make  an  order  restraining  the  i>ower  of  the 
marshals.  There  seemed  to  be  gangs  of  men  going  around  hunting 
somebody  to  arrest,  so  that  Judge  Dick  issued  this  order  that  deputy 
marshals  should  not  go  and  get  out  processes,  but  only  execute  i)ro- 
cesses  when  they  came  into  their  hands ;  that  the  process  should  be 
issued  only  on  the  application  of  the  revenue  collector  or  on  the  infor- 
mation of  some  one  who  had  furnished  it  to  the  collector.  Out  of  that 
system  grew  a  great  many  troubles  which  were  complained  of  bitterly 
by  the  people,  and  in  some  instances  led  to  almost  crime.  It  amounted 
to  crime  and  rendered  the  execution  of  the  law  very  unpopular,  and,  I 
may  say,  odious. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 
Q.  You  mean  Judge  Dick's  order? — A.  Xo;  I  do  not  mean  the  order, 
but  before  the  order  was  made.  I  am  speaking  of  the  power  of  the 
marshals  and  collectors.  I  know  the  complaint  was  that  these  marshals 
would  go  around  and  make  inquisitions  and  get  out  processes  and  the 
judge  made  this  order  restraining  them  from  that,  and  deciding  that 
the  Commissioner  should  onl;\  issue  their  warrants  on  the  application  of 
the  collector,  or  on  information  of  some  one  to  the  collector. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Some  one  outside  of  the  marshal? — A.  Yes,  sir;  to  deprive  them 
of  that  inquisitorial  right  to  take  out  processes.  It  had  been  greatly 
abused  before  that.  Tlie  marshals  would  go  around  with  blank  war- 
rants in  their  pockets,  and  hold  their  courts — a  sort  of  itinerant  com- 
uiissioner  holding  court — making  a  regular  circuit.  It  was  abused  in 
that  way  until  Judge  Dick  interfered. 

Q,  \^■hat  was  the  character  generally"  of  the  revenue  ofticers  you  were 
acquainted  with  for  ])eace,  good  order,  «S:c.? — A.  It  is  very  hard  to  dis- 
criminate who  were  the  revenue  oflicers — we  had  several  bad  men  in  the 
counliy — and  pretty  hard  to  give  a  geniMal  character  to  a  whole  com- 
munity. It  is  very  hard  to  determine  that;  but  the  general  character 
of  the  execution  of  the  law  was  not  good,  without  regard  to  particular 
individuals,  for  I  do  not  know  of  whom  I  am  speaking.  It  seems  to  me 
it  was  in  the  hands  of  reckless  men  wlio  were  objectionable  to  the 
country. 

Q.  Was  it  executed  with  harshness  and  violenc^e  frecpiently  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  tliere  was  a  good  deal  of  comi»laintof  that  kind. 

Q.  Can  you  give  any  inslances  of  violence  in  the  execution  of  it  on 
flu'  ])art  of  the  ollicers  '. 

.Mr,  \'<>()L.   l>y  a  i<'\enu('  olUcer  oi'  a  marshal  ''. 

The  ClIAlKMAN.    P>y  the  revenue  oflicers. 

A.  I  iiave  two  oi-  three  cases  in  jny  mind  that  led  to  bloodshed  and 
homicide;  wlietlier  they  were  revenue  olhci'rs  i)urely  or  de[)uty  mar- 
siials — it  is  \cr.v  hard  for  me  or  i'ov  anybody  to  know  what  i>osilions 
they  lield.  i  remember  the  ease  of  ;k  man  by  the  name  of  Woods,  on 
the  Caiiey  I''(»rk  (»r  llie  'i"iicl<asein('.      Woods  was   up  in    the    mountains 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  427 

in  tbat  coniitry,  aud  I  expect  he  was  running' an  illicit  di.stillery.  That 
was  the  evi<lence.  The  case  was  tried — I  can  give  yon  the  names  per- 
haps by  a  little  reflection — a  few  men  went  up  there,  a  man  l)y  the 
name  of  J.  A.  Franks  was  one  of  them,  with  a  crowd  of  armed  men, 
and  committed  a  good  deal  of  violence  on  his  family  ;  the  man  had 
taken  to  the  brush  ;  he  was  stilling  fruit  and  had  a  license,  perhaps,  to 
still  fruit,  but  they  found  a  gallon  of  mash  in  his  still-house.  I  remem- 
ber the  case.  They  destroyed  his  still,  and  offered  some  violence  to  his 
family,  his  wife,  1  believe;  they  were  undoubtedly  drunk.  The  evi- 
dence disclosed  that  fact;  they  were  assuming  to  execute  the  law  with 
a  drunken  set  of  men  and  they  offered  some  violence  to  the  woman,  or 
to  his  children.  The  man  liad  taken  to  the  woods  and  headed  them  off" 
within  a  mile  or  two.  lie  shot  at  them,  and  a  good  deal  of  excitement 
grew  out  of  that.  He  was  tried  at  Asheville  and  convicted  of  illicit 
distilling,  ami  of  an  assault  upon  the  officers,  or  at  least  for  resisting 
the  law.  He  broke  Jail  and  ran  away.  That  is  one  case  down  there. 
There  was  another  man,  by  the  name  of  Pick  Burns,  who  had  been  en- 
gaged in  the  traffic  himself,  perhaps.  I  should  not  speak  of  that,  if  I 
did  not  know  it.  He  was  appointed  to  some  position,  whether  a  mai- 
shal  or  deputy  I  do  not  remember.  The  charge  was  that  he  violated 
tlie  person  of  a  young  lady  down  there,  and  no  doubt  he  had  also  in- 
sulted the  family.  He  was  traveling  through  the  country  and  was 
killed — shot  in  the  \Toods.     Those  are  leading  cases. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 
Q.  What  was  his  name? — A.  I  think  it  was  Richard  Burns;  they 
called  him  Dick.  I  do  not  know  what  office  he  held.  I  can  state  tlmt 
he  had  been  a  very  violent  opposer  of  the  revenue  before  that.  It  was. 
understood  to  be  a  compromise;  I  think  that  made  hiui  the  more  objec- 
tionable to  the  people. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  of  the  Andrew  Woody  case  ? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;. 
I  know  that  well. 

Q.  Please  state  how  that  was. — A.  Andrew  and  Swan  Woody  had 
been  indicted  for  traffic  in  spirits,  and  they  had  been  convicted. 

By  Mr.  Pool: 

Q.  Is  this  a  case  of  a  marshal  or  of  a  revenue  officer? — A.  I  do  not 
know,  sir. 

Dr.  MoTT.  I  can  answer  that,  if  you  will  allow  me. 

The  Chairman.  Yes. 

Dr.  MoTT.  Neither  Franks  or  Burns  were  in  my  service. 

The  Chairman.  They  were  in  the  serviceof  the  Revenue  Department. 

Dr.  MoTT.  No,  sir;  they  were  in  the  service  of  the  marshal.  Tlu^ 
Revenue  Department  had  to  swear  out  processes  for  the  use  of  the  mar- 
shal. I  never  had  any  tiling  else  to  do  with  them.  I  will  also  state,  it" 
Mr.  Davidson  does  not  know,  that  we  have  only  two  deputy  collectors 
west  of  the  Ridge — Mr.  Williams  and  Mr.  Axley — except  a  special  dep- 
uty or  two,  whose  names  I  do  not  remember  now. 

The  CIIAIR3IAN  (to  the  committee).  What  do  you  say  in  connection 
with  this  resolution,  in  bringing  in  the  conduct  of  a  marshal  at  all,  when 
executing  processes  given  him  by  revenue  officers  ? 

Senator  jNIcDill.  I  suppose  the  language  of  the  resolution  is,  "the^ 
administration  of  the  collection  of  revenue  "  «diere  it  goes  to  the  offense  j 
there  it  becomes  a  question  of  the  administration  of  justice.  Still  they 
are  ver^^  closely  connected. 


428  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

The  Chairman.  We  will  omit  that  for  the  present. 

Mr.  Pool,  Wouhl  it  not  be  well  to  expunge  it  from  the  record  for  in- 
competency— what  he  said  about  Franks  and  Burns. 

The  Chairman.  The  men  who  went  to  Woods's  establishment  destroyed 
his  still,  &c. :  the  marshals  did  not  do  that. 

Senator  McDill.  Have  any  of  these  cases  of  bloodshed  been  reported 
in  tlie  evidence  ? 

The  Chairman.  No  ;  but  some  similar  cases  have  been  spoken  of. 

Q.  (To  the  witness.)  Do  you  know  of  any  instance  of  storekeepers 
dividino-  their  pay  with  distillers! — A.  I  know  only  what  the  distillers 
have  told  me. 

Q.  That  is  competent  for  this  committee. — A.  I  know  that  in  one  or 
two  instances  distillers  have  complained  to  me  that  the  storekeepers  did 
not  divide  fair;  that  a  part  of  the  contract  was  that  they  were  to  have 
i\  portion  of  their  wages. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  been  comx)lained  to,  as  the  bondsman  of  a  store- 
keeper, for  the  purj>ose  of  making  the  storekeeper  come  to  terms  with 
the  distiller  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  was  not  applied  to  as  being  responsible, 
but  I  was  complained  to  as  a  bondsman  that  my  principal  liad  not  done 
right  about  it ;  the  storekeeper  had  not  divided  his  compensation  with 
the  distiller. 

Q.  And  the  distiller  complained  to  you  as  his  bondsnmn  that  he  had 
not  done  it? — A.  I  do  not  think  he  alleged  that  I  was  to  be  responsible 
on  my  bond,  but  told  me  that  he  wanted  me  to  interfere,  and  asked  me 
to  make  him  do  right  by  him,  which  I  understood  was  to  divide  his  com- 
pensation. I  have  heard  of  others,  but  do  not  know  of  any  others.  I 
liave  heard  there  was  some  arrangement  of  that  sort. 

Q.  Will  you  state  whether  the  officers  of  the  Eevenue  Department 
have  been  active  politicians  or  not! — A.  Well,  these  revenue  gentlemen 
I  speak  of,  are  the  only  two  called  to  my  knowledge.  Mr.  Axley  is  very 
active;  he  is  a  decided  partisan,  and  I  am  informed  uses  his  office  for 
l)olitical  purpo.ses.  I  do  not  think  he  is  a  bad  man.  I  think  he  is  a 
man  of  rather  quiet,  good  character,  but  I  understand  that  he  does  it, 
and  it  is  complained  of  very  bitterly. 

Q.  How  about  Mr.  Williams  ! — A.  Mr.  Williams  is  a  sort  of  negative 
3nan.  He  is  a  Northern  man,  and  was  a  stranger  in  the  country.  He 
has  no  following'  and  no  relations.  He  is  a  sort  of  fancy  man  around 
the  hotels.  I  do  not  know  much  of  him.  He  is  not  identitied  with  our 
])eople.  1  believe  he  came  from  Ohio  with  Mr.  Hunt.  1  le  has  not  identi- 
fied himself  with  the  peoi)le.  He  is  rather  a  (piiet  man.  I  have  never 
seen  anything  very  bad  about  him,  nothing  objectionable  in  his  ])er- 
sonal  conduct,  but  I  understand  that  he  manipulates  his  office,  and  is  an 
jicti\e  ])oliti(Man. 

(^.  IIav«^yon  known  other  revenue  ofticers  besides  these  deputy  col- 
lectors that  you  s])oke  of? — A.  Yes;  1  have  known  storekeei)ers  to 
use  their  odices  and  to  liave  paid  their  regular  assessments  for  jjolitical 
l)nri»oses.  1  have  known  that  for  years,  at  least  for  some  time,  and 
the  tnilii  is,  J  had  something  to  do  with  the  settlement  of  their  ac- 
counts— to  draw  on  tlie  <'olh'ctor;  and  in  getting  their  accounts  settled 
they  wonhl  he  taxed  for  their  political  assessments.  I  ha\'<*  known, 
then,  in  that  way,  that  th(;y  were  a(;tive  in  i)oliti('s,  and  they  always 
idh)wed  their  ac<tonnts  to  be  taxed  in  that  way  without  complaint. 

().  Do  yon  know  wliat  (^llice  Trail  holds  there  ? — A.  1  «lonot;  1  thiidv 
1m'  has  been  in  abnost  (^very  otlice — llnile«l  States  commissioner.  I  do 
Jiot  know  wh«'the,r  ever  l)eh)nging  to  the  <'()ile('tion  departmiuit  or  not. 
JI<'  is  an  ollicioiis,  aggressi\c  man. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  429 

(}.  He  is  an  active  partisan  1' — A.  Vei y  active  ;  lie  was  very  promi- 
nent. 

Q.  Do  yon  know  Mr.  Eves,  of  Kutherford  f — A.  J  barely   know  liini. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  liini  I — A.  Yes,  sir;   I  know  of  liini. 

Q.  He  is  connected  with  the  revenue  (lei)artnient,  or  has  been  t — xV. 
Yes,  sir  ;  connected  with  the  inovernnient. 

Q.  Is  he  an  active  ])olitician  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  lie  is  a  quiet  man,  but 
regarded  as  a  leader  of  the  lle])ublican  party  in  that  part  of  the  country. 
I  have  seen  the  man  often;  he  seems  to  be  a  quiet  man,  but  I  do  not 
know  anything  of  him  ])ersonally  other  than  his  general  political  char- 
acter. 

Q.  Can  or  can  you  not  say  that  the  oliicers  of  the  revenue  dei)art- 
ment  constitute,  as  a  general  thing,  the  main  working  force  of  the  Re- 
])ublican  i)arty,  as  organizers,  &c.  ? — A.  I  think  they  constituted  the 
organizing  force  of  the  Kepublicaii  party.  I  think  tliat  they  marshal 
the  forces  and  bring  to  bear  the  paity  machiijery.  1  think  they  arc — 
perhaps  you  may  (k'liominate  them — the  leaders  of  the  jiarty;  as  a  rule 
they  are  active  partisan  men. 

l^.  Do  you  think  a  good  deal  of  the  hostility  to  them  arises  from  their 
political  activity  as  well  as  the  execution  of  an  unpo])nlar  law  f — A.  I 
think  if  it  was  not  so  entirely  connected  with  politics  as  it  has  been  the 
enforcement  of  the  law  would  not  be  so  objectionable.  I  think  this 
raises  that  objection  to  the  enforcement  of  the  law,  1  want  to  be  al- 
lowed to  say  in  ex[)lanation  of  what  I  may  say,  that  I  do  not  regard  the 
public  sentiment  there  as  so  violently  opposed  to  the  revenue  law  ;  it  is 
odious,  of  course,  because  it  is  very  hard  and  burdensome.  People 
object  to  taxes  everywhere  ;  but  I  do  not  think  the  better  sentiment  of 
the  country,  tlie  honest,  hard  handed  sentiment  of  the  country,  would 
show  any  o])position  to  the  execution  of  the  law.  I  think  the  public 
sentiment  would  yield  to  it  if  it  were  proi)erly  and  prudently  enforced. 
That  is  my  idea.  I  do  not  speak  of  myself — I  do  not  give  any  opinions 
of  my  own.  The  peop'e  would  be  mighty  glad  to  get  clear  of  it — the 
law  itself;  but  while  it  is  a  law,  and  tliere  may  be  a  necessity  for  it, 
and  all  that  sort  of  thing,  1  think  the  better  portion  of  the  ])ublic  would 
be  inclined  to  yield  obedience  to  it,  and  act  without  opjiosition,  perha])Sj 
if  it  were  enforced  by  men  who  seemingly  were  in  sympathy  with  the 
public.  It  happens  that  the  better  portion  of  the  (.'ommunity  have  very 
little  to  do  with  it. 

Q.  They  do  not  deal  in  and  distill  any  whisky  ! — A.  They  do  not 
generally  pay  mucli  revenue.  They  do  not  manufacture  whisky  or 
tobacco.  Perhaps  nineteen  out  of  twenty  have  ^ery  little  to  do  with 
the  i)ublic  revenue,  and  therefore  they  liave  very  little  to  say  one  way 
or  the  other.  And  they  are  not  the  men — the  l)0(ly  of  the  ])nblic — that 
you  see  in  the  Federal  courts  ;  they  have  very  little  to  do  with  the  mar- 
shals; their  names  are  not  on  the  criminal  docket.  I  think  as  a  rule  that 
is  strictly  true ;  hence  we  are  surprised  when  we  go  to  the  Federal  courts 
to  tiud  such  an  assemblage  of  the  population  in  the  public  square,  and 
strangers  are  surprised  by  it  and  think  that  we  ought  to  have  a  better 
people. 

Q.  Mr.  Ilauin,  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenne,  swore  here 
the  other  day  that  it  was  unsafe  for  a  well-dressed  stranger  to  ride 
through  that  district  without  giving  some  assurance  that  he  was  not 
connected  with  that  service. 

iSenator  Mitchell.  Some  years  ago  that  was  so,  but  now  he  said  it 
was  <litferent. 

The  Cii AIRMAN.  Xow  he  said  it  was  difl'erent;  what  do  yon  say  to 


430  COLLECTIOX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

that? — A.  It  was  never  so.     I,  perhaps,  oiioht  to  characterize  it  stronger, 
than  that — it  is  not  trne.     There  was  no  public  sentiment  of  that  kind 
there. 

Q.  Have  yon  ever  known,  by  repntation  or  otlierwise,  of  any  case  of 
4issault  n])on  the  officers  of  that  department,  that  did  not  have  some 
violent  provocation  for  it — not  legal  perhaps — but  such  as  you  have  re- 
lated in  the  Burns  case? — A.  Some  moral  provocation.  I  remember 
having  to  defend  a  man  in  the  courts,  by  the  name  of  Allman,  for  kill- 
ing a  man  by  the  name  of  Gnnter.  1  remember  that  there  has  always 
been  some  provocation  insisted  upon  by  the  citizens,  seeming  to  be 
more  of  a  moral  provocation  than  a  legal  one.  Hence  they  are  gener- 
ally found  to  be  wrong  in  the  courts.  I  think  that  is  about  the  state- 
ment I  would  make  about  that. 

Q.  By  some  sort  of  a  moral  provocation  you  mean  some  insult  or 
unnecessary  violence  or  harshness? — A.  Yes,  sir;  there  is  a  great  com- 
plaint in  this  regard  there.  The  officers  of  the  government  under  our 
statutes  are  allowed  to  go  aruied.  They  display  their  weapons  some- 
what. The  citizen  cannot  be  armed.  It  is  an  indictable  offense  in  our 
■State  to  carry  arms,  and  they  complain  that  they  are  intimidated  by 
this  demonstration  of  arms,  and  that  they  are  put  at  disadvantage  in 
rencounters  between  officers  and  citizens. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  You  mean  concealed  weapons,  in  speaking  of  the  law '? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  that  is  our  statute. 

Q.  Concealed  weapons,  not  arms? — A.  Yes,  sir;  but  the  statute  is  so 
construed  that  no  arms  at  all,  unless  it  is  a  musket  or  shot-gun,  can  bo 
carried.     A  man  cannot  carry  a  pistol. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  He  can  buckle  them  around  his  sides? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  can  carry 
side-arms.  He  may  carry  a  musket  or  a  double-barrel  shot-gun  on  his 
slioulder,  and  that  would  not  be  a  violation  of  the  law.  1  will  say,  in 
justice  to  the  service,  that  the  trouble  has  not  been  so  great  in  the  last 
two  or  three  years.  It  has  quieted  down  somewhat,  and  the  criminal 
dockets  of  the  Federal  courts  have  been  much  lessened  within  that  time. 
I*erhaps  familiarity  with  the  law,  and  a  returning  sense  of  right  on  the 
subject  with  the  officers  and  the  citizens,  may  have — 1  do  not  know 
uhat — ])roduced  this  better  state  of  thnigs  now.  But  that  any  of  our 
])eople,  as  a  community,  have  joined  in  public  demonstration  against 
the  execution  of  tlu^  law,  there  is  no  such  public  sentiment,  and  no  en- 
couragement given  to  it. 

Q.  If  yon  have  sufficient  knowledge  of  the  facts,  will  you  say  whether 
the  regions  wlu^re  most  of  the  disturbances  have  occurred  are  Demo- 
cratic or  Bejtublican  ?— A.  The  (juestion  is  so  general  that  it  woidd  bo 
very  hard  foi-  nu^  to  answer  just  now  without  retlection. 

Q.  1  will  ask  it  in  this  way:  The  men  whom  you  have  seen  brought 
to  th<'  courts  from  ujt  there  for  violation  of  the  law,  iiavc  they  been  con- 
lin('(|  to  one.  politiciil  party  or  distributed  iunong  all  parties — the  otlend- 
eis  of  the  law — the  men  chargcMl  with  such  violations? — A.  The  com- 
])lnint  h;is  Ix'cn  that  tlu^  Democratic  sU\v.  has  Immmi  i)ersecuted  the  most. 
Whet  her  tli;it  is  the  fact  now,  I  do  not  know.  There  has  been  that  sort 
of  eoiiipliiint,  that  in  the  remote  communities  where  you  iiud  a  Demo 
♦•ratie  settlement,  that  they  were.  raid<'d  ui>on  and  ti'eated  improi)erly 
because  of  tlieii'  politics, 

().  I  thought,  perhaps,  from  your  jtersonal  knowledge,  that  you  would 
know  something  of  the  political  comi>le\ion  of  thosi;  luonght  to  trial. — 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  431 

A.  Yes ;  most  of  tliose  whom  I  liave  defemled  have  been  Democrats ;  l)ut 
my  personal  observation  and  experience  is  that  I  have  defended  nine 
Democrats  to  one  liepnl>lican.  But  tliat  may  be  th(i  case  because  they 
came  to  me,  not  because  it  was  any  reasonable  fractional  portion  of 
those  wlio  were  on  the  docket.  It  would  not  be  fair  for  me  to  say  that 
they  \vere  i)rosecuted  because  they  were  Democrats ;  but  they  complained 
of  it  in  that  way. 

Q.  The  Republicans  were  let  off" — the  Democrats  ]nosecuted  for  the 
same  thin<>-? — A.  They  say  so;  that  is  the  sentiment.  Many  striking 
<;ases  have  been  pnt  to  me  in  that  way.  They  would  come  to  me  full  of 
lire  and  blaze  because  they  had  a  difficulty  with,  perhai)s,  some  officer 
on  election  day,  and  they  were  arrested  the  next  day,  or  something  of 
that  sort. 

Q.  You  only  undertake  to  say  about  those  for  whom  you  have  ap- 
peared ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  the  majority  of  this  number  were  Democrats. 
They  generally  alleged  that  they  were  prosecuted  because  tliey  were 
Democrats,  unless  they  got  into  very  serious  trouble,  where  their  neck 
was  involved;  then  they  generally  came  to  me  without  regard  to  poli- 
tics. 

Mr.  Pool.  I  understand  that  the  testimony  relating  to  the  marshal 
and  his  officers  is  not  competent  here;  but  there  is  a  good  deal  of  it  on 
the  record.     I  would  like  for  it  to  be  stricken  from  the  record. 

The  Chairman.  It  has  not  been  decided  yet. 

Senator  McDill.  1  would  not  like  to  exclude  testimony  unless  ifc 
was  very  irrelevant.  While  I  think  the  administration  of  justice  Is  a  very 
different  thing  from  the  administration  of  the  collection  of  the  revenue^ 
yet  there  is  another  branch  of  the  resolution  as  to  inquiries  in  regard  to 
the  resistance  of  the  revenue  which  appears  to  me  to  be  i^ertment. 

Cross-examitmtion  by  Mr.  Pool: 

Q.  You  s])oke  of  Mr.  Franks,  and  said  you  did  not  know  whether  he 
^was  a  deputy  marshal  or  a  revenue  officer;  is  not  Mr.  Franks  a  sheriff 
now? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Of  what  county  ? — A.  Swayne. 

Q.  By  what  majority  is  that  county  Democratic? — A.  I  don't  know, 
sir. 

Q.  Very  largely  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  that.     I  know  he  is  sheriff. 

Q.  EUM'ted  by  the  peoplel — A.  I  think  so,  yes,  sir;  he  was  firsb 
api)ointed  by  the  commissioners — perhai)S  there  was  a  VM(;aMcy — but 
then  at  a  regular  election  he  was  elected.  I  think  he  turned  Democrat* 
nbout  that  time.  I  saw  him  the  other  day,  and  he  said  he  was  a  Dem- 
ocrat. At  the  time  of  this  alleged  trouble  he  was  a  very  different  man 
then — on  the  other  side. 

Q.  The  people  seem  to  think  that  turning  Democrat  ratlier  condones 
liis  offense? — A.  I  suppose  so,  in  that  community.  I  think  I  coukl  exi- 
jdain  that  better,  perhaps,  in  another  way.  It  is  a  pitor'c.)uaty,  ami 
very  remote.  It  was  very  difficult  to  get  a  sheriff" — one  who  \v  is  capa- 
ble of  executitig  the  office;  and  Mr.  Franks  had  had  some  kiiovvltMlgc  of 
public  business,  and  had  repented,  he  said,  and  they  took  him  on  trial. 
The  truth  of  it  is,  it  is  very  hard  in  that  county  to  give  a  bond. 

Q.  Who  was  Mr.  Franks'  opponent  before  the  peoi^le? — A,  I  da  not 
know,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  pretend  to  say  his  opponent  was  not  a  ompotent  mm! — 
A.  I  could  not  say  that,  but  it  was  a  very  hard  matter  to  g\>t  a  sliefiff. 

Q.  Do  you  not  think  tlie  county  could  furnish  one  otiier  man  b  -sides 
Mr.  Franks  for  sheriff"? — A.  I  do  not  know  about  that;  I  know  the  of- 
fice has  l>een  vaciMit  t"oi-  uiontl)s. 


432  COLLECTION    OF    INTERXAL    REVENUE    IN 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  Ou  account  of  the  difficulty  of  filin,i;-  a  bond? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  do 
uot  know  what  was  tlie  trouble;  but  the  sheriff's  father  (J.  J).  Franks) 
lives  in  ]\[acon,  and  is  a  man  of  i)ro})erty  and  can  afford  to  <>o  on  his. 
son's  bond,  and  make  a  j!;ood  bond.  1  think  that  is  the  reason  he  was 
appointed  sheriff,  and  then  liis  business  capacities,  and  I  think  he  has 
made  a  goo<l  slieriff. 

By  Mr.  Pool: 

Q.  You  mentioned  one  instance  where  you  were  told  that  a  store- 
keeper divided  his  pay  with  a  distiller  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  were  told  that  by  the  distiller  himself? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  He  was  complaining  of  it? — A.  Yes;  that  the  storekeei)er  did  not 
divide  fair. 

Q.  Did  he  say  that  the  storekeeper  had  j)romised  to  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  that  that  storekeeper  did  promise  to? — A.  I  do  not; 
he  neyer  told  me  so. 

Q.  Did  he  not  deny  it? — A.  I  do  not  think  I  had  any  interview  with 
Lim  about  it. 

Q.  The  only  instance  you  know  of  division  was  one  storekeeper  who 
promised  to  divide  his  pay  and  did  not  do  it? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  know  of  no  other  instance? — A.  No,  sir;  I  never  was  a  wit- 
ness to  any  such  contract.     Of  course  I  would  not  know  it. 

(^.  Is  Mr.  Axley  a  man  of  good  character? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  would  say 
his  general  character  is  good. 

Q.  Is  Mr.  AVilliams  a  man  of  good  character? — A.  Mr.  Williams  is  a 
sort  of  negative  character.  Hl'  has  no  character  formed.  I  do  not 
know  much  of  him. 

Q.  I  observed  when  you  mentioned  revenue  officers,  IMessrs.  Axley  and 
Williams,  and  one  or  two  others,  while  3'ou  said  that  they  were  active 
party  men,  j'ou  always  said  they  were  quiet  men  ? — A.  Mr.  Axley  is  a 
man  of  a  good  deal  of  policj* — a  smart  man — very  quiet  and  unobtrusive 
in  his  general  manuer,  and  very  active  when  in  ])olitics. 

Q.  But  still  quiet  ? — A,  Xot  a  bit  of  violence  about  the  man. 

(^  Woidd  not  that  indicate  that  the  collector  was  selecting  quiet  and 
inoffensive  men  to  execute  the  revenue  law? — A.  I  do  not  know  that 
that  follows.  I  do  not  say  that  that  is  so.  I  think  that  he  has  got 
some  men  about  him  who  are  rather  regarded  as  violent  men. 

Q.  I  ntjtice  each  one  identitied  by  you  as  revenue  officers  j'ou  said 
were  (juiet  men. — A.  I  do  not  know  any  man  sent  down  there  except 
Mr.  Axley — except  the  storekeepers  and  distillers;  but  I  know  that  Mr. 
Axley  often  is  surrounded  by  a  V(?ry  violent  set  of  men,  while  he  is  a 
(|uiet  man  himself;  and  we  have  had  some  trouble  with  them  in  that 
commiinit.N.  I  <k)  uot  know  what  office  they  hold,  or  how  they  are  con- 
ne<;ted  with  the  <lepartment  at  all ;  but  ^Mr.  Axley  is  a  man  of  good  char- 
acter, and  a  (piiet  man. 

(}.  How  aie  the  storekeepers  iu  that  respect,  about  tpiietuess  ? — A.  I 
am  speaking  of  Mr.  Axle.v's  department.  lie  does  not  come  to  Aslie- 
\ille.      He  is  out  in  Chei'okee  County — Clay. 

if.  How  around  you  at  Asheville,  where  you  live,  and  seventy-five  or 
a  hundred  miles  outside  ? — A,  There  is  no  violence  about  Asheville  in 
the  execution  (»f  the  law.  The  laet  is,  the  nuMi  in  our  county  have  not 
been  iudieteil  \<'ry  much.  'J'hey  had  very  little  to  do  in  the  county  of 
iJuncombe  with  tlu'se  matters.  The  difficulty  has  been  along  the  iSoutli 
('ai'olina  line. 

<).  I  am  not  asking  >ou  abont  population,  but  about  the  olhcers. — A. 
J  do  not  know  of  any  fifficeis  there  except  Mr.  \\'illiains. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  43S 

Q.  You  know  of  storekeepers  ? — A.  I  know  Mr.  Cannon. 
Q.  Are  tliey  (juiet,  inoffensive  men — the  storekeepers  I — A.  Yes,  sir. 
Q.  You  said  if  the  revenue  laws  liad  been  executed  with  a  little  more 
discretion  and  cousideratiou  they  would  not  be  so  objectionable  to  the 
]Jeiuocrats  ? — A.  I  think  not.    I  said  to  the  public,  perhaps. 

Q.  You  used  the  term  "Democrats." — A.  I  did  not  mean  that.  I 
meant  to  tlie  ])ublic. 

Q.  You  said  those  officers  did  not  seem  to  have  any  sympathy  with 
the  public.  AVhat  sort  of  sympath^^  with  the  public  would  you  require 
Ihem  to  have  in  the  execution  of  the  law  ? — A.  1  would  require  them — 
my  idea  was  that  men  of  character,  standing,  means,  and  social  position 
should  have  been  api)0inted  for  the  execution  of  the  law,  and  that  it 
would  tlien  not  have  been  of  so  much  objection  to  the  i)ublic ;  men  re- 
sponsible to  society  for  their  conduct. 

Q.  Men  who  have  property? — A.  I  do  not  mean  that.  I  did  not  say 
that.     I  said  answerable  to  public  sentiment. 

Q.  To  public  sentiment? — A.  Answerable  in  their  social  relations  in 
life.  I  do  not  mean  to  say  that  a  poor  man  may  not  be  a  genteel  man. 
I  do  not  mean  to  say  that  a  revenue  officer  cannot  be  a  gentleman, 
neither. 

Q.  Of  course  you  do  not  mean  to  intimate  that  an  officer  ought  to 
have  any  such  sympathy  with  violators  of  the  law  that  he  would  be 
lenient  in  the  prosecution  of  their  offenses  ?  —A.  No,  sir ;  I  do  not  mean 
that.  I  mean  to  say  this:  We  had  some  deputy  ]narshals  there  who 
have  executed  their  processes  without  complaint,  and  have  done  their 
duty  fully,  completely,  and  satisfactorily.  We  have  had  a  few  of  those. 
Q.  Do  you  know  of  any  want  of  sympathy  with  the  ])ublic  on  the  part 
of  revenue  officers  for  which  a  complaint  could  justly  be  made  ? — A. 
Know  of  any  particular  cases  ? 
Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Name  it,  please.— A.  I  know  of  Mr.  Williams  having  gone  down 
into  the  country  there.  The  complaints  have  generally  been  of  the  de- 
struction of  1)1  oi)erty. 

Q.  Of  what  kind  '? — A.  Of  property,  and  the  rigid  manner  of  execut- 
ing the  law  and  making  arrests. 

Q.  The  revenue  officers  did  not  make  arrests? — A.  He  seizes  the  still 
and  makes  inquisition.  He  looks  out  for  these  things.  It  is  his  duty 
to  do  it,  I  believe. 

Q.  It  is  his  duty  to  inform  where  the  offense  is  committed? — A.  I 
know  a  bitter  complaint  was  made  of  him  as  to  the  manner  of  executing 
the  law. 

Q.  What  was  the  particular  feature  in  his  manner  complained  of? — 
A.  He  was  harsh  in  his  intercourse  with  the  people  and  rough  in  his 
-expressions,  and  had  no  social  intercourse  with  anybody. 

Q.  It  was  his  duty,  however,  to  destroy  illicit  stills  ? — A.  I  understand 
that. 

Q.  That  would  require  violence? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  would  not  suppose  the  owner  of  a  still  would  take  that  very 
coolly  ? — A.  I  sui)pose  not. 

Q.  Perhaps  the  complaint  was  more  of  the  destruction  of  his  still  than 
of  the  words  used  while  it  was  being  destroyed? — A.  I  do  not  know 
what  he  said. 

Q.  Was  not  the  main  complaint  that  he  was  a  Northern  man,  a  carpet- 
bagger, and  made  objectionable  arrests  of  these  people  ? — A.  That  is  not 
the  main  complaint.     It  is  complained  that  he  was  a  Northern  man; 
S,  Mis.  IIG 28 


434  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

that  lie  came  tliere  without  responsibility  to  the  ])ul)]i(',  and  liad  no 
sympathy  for  tbem  in  their  wants  or  cliaracter. 

'  Q.  I  understood  you  these  viohitors  of  the  law — distillers  and  others — 
were  tbe  worst  part  of  the  eoinmunity;  so  uuieh  so  that  their  ])resenee 
at  court  attracted  unfavorable  notice  from  stran<iers? — A.  I  think  so. 

Q.  ^Yhen  the  worst  part  of  the  community  are  violating  the  law  of 
the  country,  I  will  ask  you  if  it  is  oblij;atory  on  a  public  otticer  to  be 
regardful  of  his  manneis  and  genteel  in  prosecuting  that  class? — A.  I 
would  say  he  needed  not  to  be  a  Chestertield,  l)ut  he  ought  to  conduct 
himself  as  a  gentleman. 

Q.  In  whatre-spect  did  Mr.  Williams  fail  in  that? — A,  I  do  not  know; 
I  never  was  there. 

Q.  You  said  you  heard? — A.  I  have  heard  of  it.  I  never  heard  Will- 
iams say  so,  but  it  is  generally  so  regarded. 

Q.  Js  it  not  very  likely  that  X)reiudicial  rumors  would  be  started 
against  what  is  called  a  carpet-bagger  who  was  holding  office'? — A.  I 
do  not  think  that  it  is  general ;  at  an  early  date,  perhaps,  that  prejudice 
did  exist.  I  do  not  think  it  does  now.  We  have  a  great  many  North- 
ern men  in  our  midst. 

Q.  I  mean  of  those  who  were  holding  office? — A.  Our  ])eoi3le  do  not 
like  for  strangers  to  come  in  there  and  hold  an  office. 

Q.  That  may  account  for  a  good  deal  said  against  Mr.  Williams? — A. 
It  might,  and  then  it  might  not.  I  do  not  think  that  is  the  reason  of  it 
wholly. 

Q.  Von  are  yourself  a  Democrat,  of  course'? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  said  a  good  luany  of  the  persons  who  were  i)rosecut(  d 
came  to  you  as  Democrats  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  so." 

Q.  You  could  not  tell  about  the  ])roi)ortion,  though  ;  they  might  be  at- 
tracted to  yon  on  account  of  your  politics  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  being  a  Demo- 
crat, I  had  a  very  large  practice ;  was  ])retty  extensively  known  through- 
out that  country;  had  practiced  there  a  long  time. 

(^.  You  did  not  want  to  be  understood  that  nine  to  one  of  the  violat- 
ors of  the  law  were  Democrats  ? — A.  I  did  not  mean  to  be  understood 
that  way. 

(^.  Then  these  Democrats  who  vi()late<l  the  law  came  to  you  because 
you  were  a  Democrat,  and  told  you  they  were  i^rosecuted  because  they 
were  Denmcrats  ? — A.  ISo;  that  is  too  broad.  They  c<mii)lained  that 
others  who  were  not  Democrats  were  let  off.  I  can  give  you  an  instance 
in  sui)port  of  this  statement.  I  had  a  lawsuit  for  a  man  by  the  name 
of  Coward,  who  caine  to  me;  he  had  l)een  indicted.  He  was  informed 
on  by  a  man  by  the  name  of  Wike.  lie  said  he  had  been  up  in  the 
mountains  to  a  still,  and  that  as  he  came  down  off  the  mountains  he 
was  nuit  in  the  evening  by  W^ike.  It  was  the  time  when  the  election 
was  going  on,  or  something  of  that  sort,  and  that  he  had  a  jug  of 
wliisky  that  he  had  got  u])  in  the  mountains  at  an  illicit  still.  Wike 
said  he  w  anted  som<'  whisky  for  sickness,  lie  was  four  or  five  miles  from 
the  still  house,  (jowarddid  not  want  to  let  him  have  the  licpior,  and 
said  lie  was  taking  it  home  for  his  own  use.  Finally  the  man  let  him 
liave  a  (|iiart,  for  wliieli  li(^  gav«!  iiiiu  at  the  rate  of  a  dollar  a  gallon; 
that  was  the  evidence,  lie  iininediately  went  to  tln^  United  states  com- 
missioner and  had  Coward  arrested.  As  I  understood  him,  the  charge 
was  political  ]H()secution,  because  he  was  a  Democrat;  and  that  is  an 
ilbistratioii  of  what  I  said. 

().  Who  was  Mr.  Wike  ? — A.  1  do  not  know  his  politics;  I  do  not 
know  anything  about  him.  That  is  what  is  alleged.  Thai  is  an  illus- 
tration (»!'  what   they  complairu'd   to  me   about — that   sort  of  evidence. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLIXA.  4.'^5 

Tie  was  convict«Hl,  and  (JcMieral  Grant  ]);ir<Ione(l  him  on  that  state  of 
att'airs.  Pie  was  in  prison  six  niontiis  and  fined  $1,<M)().  It  was  not  nn- 
coinnion  to  hear  of  them  being  arrested  on  some  pnblic  occasion,  when 
there  was  ])ublic  speaking-  iiiul  n  political  harangue  going  on. 

Q.  For  the  violation  of  the  revenue  law  ? — A^  Ye«,  sir. 

(^>.  Y(m  mean  arrested  by  marshals,  ot" course?— A.  Yes,  sir;  for  vio- 
lation of  law,  illicit  distilling,  and  soon. 

i).  That  is  rather  an  inaccessible  section  of  the  country,  and  if  a  mar- 
shal had  a  warrant  against  him  it  would  be  very  hard  for  the  marshal  to 
Und  him,  generally,  and  arrest  him,  if  he  chose  to  keej)  out  of  his  way  ? — 
A.  It  is  a  remote  mountain  region,  but  not  so  iiniccessible  as  may  be 
tupi)osed.     I  do  not  think  it  is.     I  have  been  accustomed  to  it. 

Q.  Was  not  a  public  gathering  a  very  convenient  place  for  marshals 
to  tind  the  men  and  arrest  those  for  whom  they  had  warrants? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  it  might  save  them  from  riding  eight  or  ten  miles. 

Q.  \Vas  there  anything  improper  about  arresting  acrinnnal,  if  he  had 
a  warrant  for  him,  at  a  i)ublic  gathering? — A.  I  think  not,  sir. 

Q.  Y'et  this  man  came  to  you  and  said  it  was  political  prosecution  ? — 
A.  It  was  the  character  of  their  complaints. 

Q.  Would  not  that  indicate  to  you  that  their  idea  of  political  prosecu- 
tion was  rather  frivolous  ? — A.  I  do  not  think  there  was  anything  wrong- 
in  making  arrests  on  a  public  day. 

Q.  They  seemed  to  have  the  idea  that  when  they  came  out  to  hear  a 
Democratic  speech  they  ought  to  be  free  from  arrest"? — A.  They  genei- 
ally  complained  that  these  arrests  were  made  with  a  view  to  attract 
their  attention  away  from  thedis(;ussion  and  i)roduce  a  conflict  between 
rhe  parties  and  produce  excitement;  that  was  the  general  comphiint ; 
however  just  it  was  I  do  iu)t  know. 

Q.  They  seemed  to  have  some  sort  of  imi)ressiou  that  when  they  came 
out  to  hear  speeches  they  should  be  exempt  from  arrest. — A.  They  gen- 
erally ('()mi)lained  that  these  men  rode  over  the  country  controlling  the 
politics  and  throwing  obstacles  in  their  way,  and  the  indictment  grew 
out  of  that ;  whether  true  or  false  [  do  not  know. 

().  You  set  out  by  saying  there  were  some  abuses  on  the  part  of  the 
officers  in  the  execution  of  the  law.  I  suppose  you  mean  revenue  laws. 
Xow,  can  you  name  any  particular  ^instance  where  a  revenue  officer 
abused  his  authority  as  an  officer? — A.  I  cannot  discriminate  between 
marshals  and  revenue  officers  to  lay  down  particular  cases.  I  know  of 
a  great  many  abuses,  but  whether  they  were  by  revenue  men  or  mar- 
shals I  cannot  say. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  of  any  particular  case  on  the  part  of  Mr.  Williams, 
Axley,  or  the  storekeeper  you  have  named  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  are,  then,  unable  so  to  discriminate  between  marshals  whose 
duty  was  to  make  arrests,  and  revenue  officers  that  you  could  not  say 
there  was  any  instance  in  which  a  revenue  officer  abused  his  author- 
ity?— A.  Only  what  I  understood  they  have  assumed  to  do;  whether 
they  had  the  x>ower  to  do  it  or  not  1  do  not  know.  I  think  I  can  safely 
say  that  the  marshals  assumed  to  execute  the  revenue — I  think,  per- 
haps, they  assumed  that  without  authority. 

Q.  To  the  extent  of  arresting  the  offenders  against  the  revenue  ? — A. 
I  think  Burns  got  killed  without  any  process  in  his  hands. 

Q.  He  was  a  Democrat? — Xo,  sir;  he  had  been. 

Q.  He  was  a  deputy  marshal  ? — A.  I  think  he  was  acting  as  deputy 
marshal.  He  attempted  to  make  an  arrest,  and  it  was  in  evidence  that 
he  had  no  process. 

Q.  You  would  not  hold  the  collector  of  internal  revenue  responsible 


436  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

for  him? — A.  I  do  not  hold  anything  as  a  witness.     I  do  not  kuow  any- 
thing- about  that. 

By  the  Chairman.  May  be  it  woukl  simplify  that  thing  by  asking 
the  witness  if  there  was  any  revenue  officer  along  with  Burns! — A.  I 
do  not  think  there  was. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Did  yon  have  any  reason  to  believe  the  collector  of  internal  revenue 
vas  in  any  way  imi)licatedin  it? — A.  Uidess  Burns  had  some  authority 
from  the  revenue  department;  I  know  of  no  authority  as  a  revenue 
officer  that  he  attempted  to  exercise.  He  simply  came  along  there,  and 
these  i^eople  had  some  jugs  of  whisky  in  the  highway.  He  attempted  to 
seize  them,  and  got  shot.  They  had  been  to  a  still-house,  and  had  a 
iug  with  them.  1  appeared  for  the  defense  in  the  case,  and  the  ])oint 
was,  the  officer  had  no  authority  to  seize  or  make  arrests;  but  he  was 
connected  with  the  revenue  in  some  way.  I  think  it  was  shown  tluit  he 
was  a  deputy  marshal,  or  that  he  was  in  the  act  of  discharging  his  duty. 
He  assumed  to  seize  tlie  liquor  and  take  it  from  the  men. 

Q.  Then  he  committed  an  assault,  of  course? — A.  I  suppose  so;  the 
defense  consisted  in  that.     I  remember  that  distinctly. 

Hon.  A.  C.  Avery  sworn  aud  examined  by  the  government. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

'Q.  Where  do  you  reside? — A.  I  live  in  Morganton,  N.  C. 

Q.  What  position  in  the  State  government  do  you  at  present  hold? — 
A.  Judge  of  the  eighth  judicial  district  superior  court. 

Q.  That  is  pretty  near  the  center  of  the  sixth  collection  district,  where 
you  live? — A.  Yes,  sir;  nearly  so. 

Q.  Have  you  had  a  i)retty  fair  opportunity  of  observing  the  workings 
of  the  internal  revenue  system  of  collection  of  revenue,  and  through 
intercourse  with  tlie  i)eople  and  their  complaints,  &c.t — A.  1  have  had 
110  connection  with  the  internal-revenue  service,  and  no  i)ersonal  obser- 
vation of  the  conduct  of  the  oJticers  alumt  the  distilleries  or  anything  of 
that  kind;  but  nj)  to  four  years  ago,  when  I  went  on  the  bench,  I  had 
practiced  in  the  Federal  courts  and  defended  a  large  luimber  of  i)ersons 
indicted  in  my  country.  That  drew  my  attention  to  the  execution  of  the 
law.  \Vhiit  I  know  since  of  its  operation  within  the  last  few  years  is 
probably  almost  exclusively  what  I  have  heard  from  others. 

Q.  Will  you  give  the  connnittee,  if  you  please,  your  statement,  such 
as  you  m;iy  be  able  to  do,  of  the  geiu'rid  condition  of  things  with  refer- 
ence to  the  execution  of  tlu'law;  how  it  is  regarded  by  the  people; 
whether  or  not  it  is  unpopuhir;  and  if  so,  why?  And  tlie  general  char- 
acter of  the  men  wlio  executed  it;  the  miuiner  in  which  it  is  executed, 

^c. A.  The  law  has  been  iini)opular  iVom  the  very  close  of  the  war  up 

to  the  present  time  siiu;e  it  went  into  ojtei'iition.     J)o  you  ask  the  reasons 
why  it  has  l>cen  un]K)i»ular? 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A,  So  far  as  I  know,  1  think,  in  the  first  instance,  the 
law  was  unj»opular  geneially  among  oni-  pe(>ple,  at  least  those  who  were 
alfected  by  it,  because  it  was  sonu'thing  new.  A  large  i)()rtion  of  our 
]»eoi)lein  many  se(;tions  had  been  accustomed  to  make  whisky  and  ap- 
ph'  l»randy,  and  relied  n])on  it  for  support,  and  the  imposition  of  these 
tiixes — for  at  that  time  it  was  impossible  to  start  small  distilleries,  they 
(Mtnhl  not  o|»erale  under  the  law — bioke  into  their  habits  of  a  lifetime. 
T\\:\\  ma(h'  it  odious,  and  I  think  it  was  mad<'.  still  more  odious  by  the 
niannei'  of  its  execution.     s\\\d  now  1  think  more  recently  it  is  odious  to 


THE    8IXTII    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  437 

a  great  many  of  the  better  class  of  our  ])eople  because  tlie  manner  of 
its  execution  tliey  feel  isha\ing  a  demoralizing  effect  ui)on  tli(>  country. 

(j>.  Ifow  so? — A.  I  cannot  sjx'ak  of  my  own  knowledge;  1  can  only 
give  impressions,  so  far  as  I  derixed  them  from  i)eople  in  different  (coun- 
ties; during  this  spring  T  have  held  courts  in  ten  counties  in  the  dis- 
trict. Tlu;  idea  of  a  great  iminy  intelligent  men  to  whom  I  Imvc  talked 
aud  whom  L  have  heard  talk  upon  the  subject  is  that  blockiuling,  ;is 
they  term  it,  is  less  common  than  it  was  formerly  ;  but  the  idea  is  now 
that  they  can  manage  government  distilleries  and  make  more  profit 
than  they  could  by  blockading,  and  it  is  gentnally  by  avoiding  the  law. 
Whether  that  be  so  or  not  I  do  not  know  of  my  own  personal  knowl- 
edge. 

Q.  You  are  giving  a  general  impression? — A.  And  the  imi)ressiou  of 
the  people  is  that  tlie  execution  of  the  law  is  demoralizing  thei)eoplein 
this  way;  that  this  general  impression,  everywhere  that  I  have  gone, 
that  the  storekeepers  are  dividing  with  the  distillers,  and  tlie  fact  that 
the  government  is  furnishing  in  storekeepers'  wages  a  large  ])ortion  of 
the  fund  that  runs  these  small  distilleries,  it  is  understood  that  these 
storekeepers  must  necessarily — though  I  have  never  heard  the  oath 
which  they  take  when  they  render  their  accounts  and  swear  to  them — 
swear  to  what  is  not  strictly  true.  Hence  there  is  au  im])ression  now 
that  these  inimerous  positions  of  storekeepers  offered  all  over  the 
country  to  the  young  men  around  there  whose  ordinary  occujiations 
would  not  yield  them  over  ten  or  fifteen  dollars  a  month  outside  of  the 
revenue  dei)artment,  holding  out  temptations  for  them  to  commit  fraud, 
if  not  i)erjury,  in  order,  perhaps,  to  get  these  storekeepers' wages.  I 
hear  more  complaint  recently  from  the  more  intelligeut  class  of  people 
upon  that  ground  than  upon  any  other.  They  thiidv  that  is  calculated 
to  demoralize  the  people  of  the  country  and  destroy  that  regard  for 
truth  which  ought  to  exist.  Whether  that  is  so  or  not  I  do  not  know, 
but  the  impression  exists  that  it  is  so. 

Q.  Is  it  not  also  one  of  the  causes  of  comi)laint  against  this  depart- 
ment that  the  offices  connected  v.ith  it  are  ])erverted  to  political  pur- 
poses; that  young  men  are  corrupted  politically,  I  mean  with  the  tempta- 
tion to  secure  small  offices,  to  change  their  i)olitics,  &c.f — A.  Yes,  sir; 
there  is  an  impression  that  these  positions  are  offered  for  that  ])urpose, 
aiul  that  they  are  offered  to  young  men  who  are  the  representatives 
of  extensive  families  in  the  country,  with  a  view  to  control  their  near 
relatives  at  elections.     That  is  one  of  the  grouiuls  of  prejudice  against  it. 

Q.  Is  it  not  also  charged  and  complained  of  that  men  who  were  in- 
dicted are  frequently  eased  off  from  the  consecpiences  of  their  indictment 
on  condition  that  they  change  their  politics  ? — A.  I  have  heard  such  a 
com])laiut,  but  I  do  not  know  anything  of  my  own  knowledge  to  give  it 
color,  and  I  would  not  like  to  give  it  as  an  o])iiiion  from  any  knowledge 
of  mine  that  such  is  the  case;  I  have  heard  tlie  charge.  I  do  not  think, 
if  allowed  to  gi\  e  my  opinion,  that  Judge  Dick  ^\ould  be  a  party  to  any 
such  arrangement,  if  any  subordinate  might  be  or  not. 

Q.  Are  the  revenue  ofticers  within  your  observation  active  partisans  ? — 
A.  I  thiidc  almost  all  of  them  are  among  the  most  active  partisans. 

Q.  Are  they  not  the  organizers  of  the  party  aud  principally  run  its 
machinery "? — A.  It  is  understood  that  they  have  control  of  the  organiza- 
tion of  the  Eepublican  partj'  in  the  district,  and,  so  far  as  I  know,  in 
those  counties  where  I  heard  anything  of  their  political  management, 
almost  all  of  them  ;  but  I  su])pose  there  are  some  few  counties  in  which 
there  are  exceptions. 

Q.  Is  it  or  is  it  not  the  impression  now  that  the  greater  part  of  the 


438  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

fiauils  coiiuiiitted  are  coinmitted  in  collusion  w  itli  leveiuK'  olticcis  '! — 
A.  1  tliiiiic  tlie  iini)res.sioii  of  tlie  county  is  that.  As  1  said  bct'oic,  I  be- 
lieve tliat  blockading  was  less  common,  but  the  j;enoral  iniprcssiou  is 
that  the  distillers  wlio  run  these  small  distilleries  can  oidy  make  them 
])rotitable  l)v  coUiisiou  with  the  storekeejters.  It  is  a  veiT  (•(»iumon  <'.\- 
l)rcssion  to  hear  "that  no  man  can  buy  corn  at  a  dollar  a  l)usli('l  and 
sell  whisky  at  a  dollar  and  a  quarter  a  gallon.  <lo  a  legitimate  business, 
and  make  anything  at  it,'' and  you  hear  men  say  that  distiUers  them- 
selves say  it,  that  it  is  impossible  to  nKd<e  a  ])rotit  and  conduct  the  busi- 
ness fairly,     i  have  never  heard  them  sa"  so  myself. 

Q.  \Miat  has  been  heretofore  the  character  of  the  revenue  men  who 
execute  the  laws  in  that  district,  as  men  of  ])eace  or  otherwise f-^A.  I 
could  not  give  the  character  of  all.  Some  of  tliem  have  been  ])eaceful 
men,  certainly,  and  men  <tf  good  character. 

Q.  Of  course  I  meant  to  ask  as  to  the  character  of  their  conduct; 
^yhether  \iolent,  tyrannical,  o])i)ressive,  or  otherwise? — A.  Just  after 
the  war  a  nmjority  of  the  officers,  collectors  and  deputy  marshals,  wi^re 
tliought  to  be  imprudent  and  indiscreet  men.  At  a  later  ])eriod,  within 
the  last  eight  or  ten  >  ears,  we  have  had  some  <leputy  marshals  and  deputy 
coliectois  against  whom  1  have  heard  no  charge.  As  to  the  officers  im- 
mediately under  Br.  Mott,  I  do  not  know  that  I  know  who  are  the  dif- 
ferent collectors  there.  1  do  not  know  who  has  been  on  duty  at  different 
times.  When  1  was  practicing  actively  there  in  the  courts  there  was 
a  Mr.  Gillespie  on  duty  for  a  while.  I  think  he  was  iegar<Ied  as  an  in- 
discreet and  imprudent  man,  and  he  got  into  some  difficulties  which  he 
probably,  in  a  large  measure,  brought  ui)on  himself.  .1  sotokl  Dr.  Mott 
in  talking  to  him  about  it.  He  was  afterwards  removed  from  that  dis- 
trict. Mr.  Gillespie,  I  think,  was  removed  from  there  about  four  years 
ago.  It  is  my  im])ression — he  had  been  on  duty  for  some  time  prior  to 
that  as  dejjutv  collector — he  w^as  renu)ved  elsewhere.  1  do  not  know 
that. 

Q.  J  su]>i)ose  you  have  a  personal  knowledge,  more  or  less,  of  all  the 
difficulties  that  have  occurred  in  that  country  between  the  officers  ami 
the  people  in  your  immediate  section — Burke  and  ]\Icl)owell  Counties. 
Have  yon  ever  known  any  instance  of  shooting  at  any  of  the  oflicers 
that  did  not  arise  from  very  considerable  i)i'ovocation  on  the  ])artof  the 
officers? — A.  1  would  not  like  to  make  a  general  statement  about  that. 
I  would  rather  be  allowed  to  cite  i)articular  cases  that  I  recollect  Just 
uow. 

(}.  Very  well. — A.  Tliere  are  two  cases  in  which  1  ai)])eared  for  the 
defense;.  1  l)elie>e  they  were  deputy  marshals;  1  am  not  certain  whether 
<lei>uty  collectors  or  not.  One  was  the  case  of  A.  A.  Wisennm,  who 
liad  a  ])arty  with  him,  and  killed  a  man. 

().  li<'  was  a  maishal  '! — A.  1  am  satislied  he  was  just i liable.  Another 
<'ase  was  that  of  an  <»flicer  who  killed  souu^  of  the  Snyders. 

(f.  They  were  nuirshals,  were  they  not? — A.  I  thiidv  they  were  nuir 
•shals  ;  theie  was  a  i»arty  of  ten  along;  two  or  three  of  them  w  ere  deputy 
niarsluils;  whether  deputy  collectors  wen^  along  at  thci  tinu'  I  <lo  not 
know.  I  think  thai  was  a  ])art  of  llollius's  district  at  the  time.  [ 
thought  tlM',\  had  a  warrant  for  arrest  and  he  lesisted.  I  thought 
they  were  Justiliable.      i  was  their  (counsel. 

'rher<^  was  tin*  (;ase  of  Deaver,  who  was  the  deputy  collector  picced- 
iiig  Gil]es|»ie,  wlio  n)ade  a  vioIcMit  assault    on  a   man  in  McDowell.     I 
thought  he  was  not  justilie<l,  ami  .ludge  ( 'lark  so  held.     I   am  m>t  ])osi 
1i\e  about  the  circumstances.      As   I    recall  them  now,  he  came  up  with 
n  |»arl\  of  soldiers  upon  a   young  man  out  in    Hie  coinitry,  and  without 


TPIE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  439 

tlis(;losiiig  his  ])urpo.se,  and  really  without  a  warrant  for  his  arrest,  called 
uiinii  him  to  "  halt."  The,  mau  was  startled  and  started  to  run,  and  they 
sliot  liiin,  wounding-  him  severely.  Judge  Clark  bound  him  over  upon 
a  warrant  to  answer  in  the  State  courts. 

Tlien  there  was  the  case  ag  linst  Mr.  Gillesjiie  ;  he  was  a  deputy  col- 
lector appointed  by  Dr.  Mott  in  my  county,  and  assigned  to  duty  there. 
He  went  down  to  York's  distillery  to  make  some  seizure;  I  am  not 
stating  this  from  my  persooal  knowledge;  I  was  counsel  foi' the  Yorks, 
and  my  knowledge  is  that  C'olonel  (x.iither  had  four  bills  of  indict- 
ment in  the  State  courts  against  Mr.  (Tilles])ie  and  those  who  accom.- 
patiied  him  on  that  occasion.  One,  T  recollect,  was  for  trespass  in  seizing 
the  wagon  of  old  Mr.  York,  and  taking  it,  against  the  protest  of  his  wife, 
to  ^lorgantou  to  haul  some  still  lixtures  or  brandy  that  were  seized.  I 
thiidv  one  was  for  assault  ui)on  old  Mr.  York. 

Q.  Had  they  any  warrant  against  him "? — A.  They  had  no  warrant 
against  Mr.  York.  They  had  sonu^  waiTants,  as  well  as  I  recollect, 
against  his  two  boys,  but  they  arrested  old  Mr.  York  and  held  him  in 
custody.  He  was  quite  an  old  man,  and  was  very  much  frightened,  ac- 
<;or(liiig  to  accounts  given;  so  mucli  so  that  when  accidentally  he  got 
loose  from  them  he  ran  some  two  miles  across  the  top  of  the  mountains, 
and  became  sick  from  the  exercise  and  fright,  and  died  in  two  mouths 
after.  Then  they  iuipressed  the  young  man  living  there,  and  forced  him 
to  drive  the  wagon  to  Morganton.  I  forget  the  other  assault.  1  think 
probably  it  was  a  charge  of  assault  upon  the  wife  of  old  Mr.  York.  Tliat 
conduct,  I  thought,  was  Avholly  unjustifiable.  There  was  no  necessity 
for  the  violence. 

Q.  Was  that  the  occasion  when  they  were  fired  upon,  and  Mr.  Gilles- 
pie wounded,  on  their  return  from  the  seizure  I — A.  My  impression  is — 
it  has  been  a  good  while  since — that  that  was  the  occasion;  that  on 
coming  out  ot  York's  inclosure,  when  letting  down  the  bars,  they  were 
fired  into,  and  Mr.  Gillespie  was  wounded,  and  a  horse  of  young  James 
McDowell  killed.  There  was  a  good  deal  of  feeling  against  Gillespie 
in  that  country  at  that  time. 

Q.  Do  you  think  any  jiortion  of  the  feeling  existing'  as  to  the  execu- 
tion of  the  revenue  laws  arises  on  account  of  the  partisanship  of  the 
otticersf — A..  It  is  hard  to  distinguish,  of  course.  There  is  some  feeling 
against  the  ofllicers  on  account  of  their  active  participation  in  politics. 
It  naturally  excites  some  feeling  on  the  part  of  the  politicians  on  the 
other  side. 

Q.  Do  you  think  that  if  the  revenue  was  collected  quietly,  without 
partici[>ation  on  the  part  of  officers  in  politics,  that  there  would  be  less 
prejudice? — A.  I  do. 

Q.  And  a  better  feeling  in  the  community  generally  towards  the  law 
and  its  execution,  if  it  was  dissociated  from  x^artisan  politics  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir  ;  I  think  so.  There  is  some  ])rejudice  on  account  of  the  impres- 
sion tiiat  it  is  through  the  Revenue  Department  that  the  machinery  of 
the  Kt^i)ublican  organization  is  kept  up. 

Q.  Is  there  anything  yourself  that  jhiu  desire  to  state  in  this  connec- 
tion ?— A.  Ko,  sir;  I  know  nothing  of  my  own  knowledge  about  the 
matter. 

Q.  What  is  your  ojiinion  about  the  effect  of  this  multiplication  of 
stills — making  so  many  small  stills? — A.  You  ask  my  opinion  about  it? 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  Bs'fore  I  saw  the  experiment  tried  I  thought  it  was 
best,  in  order  to  stoj)  violations  of  the  law ;  and  I  believe,  in  talking  with 
Dr.  Mott  about  it,  I  said  to  him  that  it  was  desirable,  if  men  would  ran 
distilleries,  to  control  and  bring  them  under  the  law;  that  was  my  im- 


440  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

pressioii  at  that  time;  but  since  it  has  been  tried,  from  what  I  liear,  and 
with  the  general  impression  of  the  country  about  it,  I  think  that  the 
running-  of  these  small  distilleries  with  licenses — that  the  general  im- 
pression pervading  the  community  tbat  they  are  all  permitted  to  evade 
the  \-AW  for  want  of  close  scrutiny — is  more  demoralizing  tlian  blockading 
was.  I  did  not  think  it  would  be  so,  but  the  experiment  has  been  tried, 
and  tbat  is  my  impression  now. 

Q.  Have  you  any  general  impression  as  to  the  proportion  of  whisky 
made  in  these  distilleries  that  pays  taxes  ? — A.  I  have  no  idea.  I  have 
never  been  in  one  of  them.  Just  after  the  war  I  was  prohal»ly  in  a 
blockade  distillery  or  two;  but  I  have  never  been  in  a  government  dis- 
tillery of  any  kind,  and  I  could  merely  express  an  opinion  on  the  part 
of  others,  and  I  do  not  know  how  far  that  is  permissable  as  teNtiniony. 
I  have  heard  expressions  of  opinion  of  the  way  it  has  been  conducted,, 
and  it  has  become  a  general  impression. 

Q.  I  have  heard  it  suggested  in  some  official  reports  of  agents  here 
that  about  one-balf  of  the  whisky  made  pays  taxes ;  do  you  know  what 
the  impression  is  in  the  community  in  regard  to  that  ? — A.  I  think  the 
impression  is  that  there  is  certainly  as  much  as  half,  on  the  average, 
that  does  not  pay  taxes;  by  one  means  or  another  it  escapes. 

Q.  Of  course,  assuming  there  is  a  corrupt  bargain  between  the  store- 
keepers and  distillers,  they  are  mutually  in  each  other's  power;  and  any 
amount  of  illicit  distilling  might  be  assumed  if  such  a  bargain  was  estab- 
lished ;  that  is  so,  is  it  not  ? — A.  I  suppose  so,  from  what  I  have  heard 
of  the  management.  Such  a  thing  existing  as  a  storekeeper  handing" 
over  the  key  to  a  distiller  would  enable  him  to  have  things  his  own  way.. 

Q.  Assuming  that  this  corrupt  bargain  did  exist  between  the  two,  the 
distiller  would  have  his  own  waj-,  because  the  storekeeper  would  be  afraid 
to  break  it  up? — A.  Yes,  sir;  you  migiit  take  it  so. 

Q.  What  was  the  impression  in  regard  to  storekeepers  being  appointed 
there  who  are  of  kin  or  under  the  influence  of  the  distillers? — A.  The 
impression  is  that  the  person  proposing  to  commence  distilling  would 
be  allowed  to  select  his  storekeeper,  though  I  have  never  been  to  the 
distilleries  or  anything  of  that  kind.  1  understand  in  the  community 
in  which  I  live  there  have  been  instances  where  men  were  apjiointed  as 
storekeei)ers  to  run  the  distilleries  that  were  kept  in  the  name  of  their 
own  relatives.  There  has  been  also  an  imi)ression  that  so?ne  of  them 
owned  the  distilleries  which  they  ran,  and  to  which  they  were  assigned 
as  storekeei)ers.  Whether  it  is  true  or  not  1  do  not  know.  For  instance,, 
where  people  put  them  u^)  on  their  own  land  or  the  land  of  the  store- 
keeper. 

(^.  One  question  I  omitted  to  ask  you.  Mr.  Raum  has  testified  here 
tliat  in  many  parts  of  the  district  it  has  been  dangerous  for  a  well- 
dressed  man  to  ride  through  the  country  without  some  assurance  to  the 
public;  that  he  was  not  a  revenue  ollicer. — A.  I  feel  confident  that 
that  was  not  true — at  least  in  any  of  the  portions  of  the  distri(;t  1  know. 
1  know  a  very  considerable  iK)rtion  of  it.  1  am  confident  it  is  not  true, 
and  I  know  ])ortions  in  which  theie  has  been  charged  a  large  number 
of  violations  of  the  revenue  law. 

Q.  What  was  the  worst  portion  of  the  country  where  illicit  distilling 
was  supposed  to  l)e  (;arried  on '^ — A.  A  large  number  of  jx-rsons  were 
arrested  from  the  South  Mountain  Range,  the  lower  ]>art  of  Rurke 
County,  and  back  of  the  South  ]M(Miiitain  Range,  in  Cleveland  and 
Knfhei'ford;  the  upper  corner  of  (latawba  and  the  up]>er  corner  of  Lin- 
coln ;  and  tlien  ikm  Mi  of  tliat  is  the  Rrush  Mountains,  in  Wilkes.  A 
larger  [)roi)ortion  of  arrests  were  in  those  s<'<'tions  than  in  any  other  I 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NOiH  II    CAROLINA.  441' 

know  of  east  of  the  lilue  Ilidge.  Formcily  a  larfio  luimbcr  of  arrests 
were  made  in  Upper  Transylvania.  With  the  peojjle  of  those  counties  I 
had  a  jjreat  deal  of  intcreonrse,  because  L  defended  a  good  many. 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  political  complexion  of  those  regions  you  have 
described  ? — A.  AVhat  is  known  as  the  South  ^louutain  region,  in  Burke, 
where  these  people  were  charged  with  illicit  distilling,  a  large  majority 
of  them  have  been  IJepublicans.  In  some  few  instances  of  late  years 
one  of  the  boxes  has  given  a  Democratic  majority;  but  the  majority  of* 
the  population  were  llepublican. 

Q.  'Do  you  know  INIr.  Jake  Mull  ?— A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  subhiitte«l  a  case  for 
him  under  the  amnesty  that  was  given  by  Congress,  or  granted  by  order 
of  Judge  Uick. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  he  ever  represented  Burke  County  in  the 
legislature  or  was  a  candidate  for  the  legislature? — A.  No,  sir;  Jake 
Mull — 1  think  I  have  only  seen  him  once  since  the  war,  and  it  was  on 
this  occasion  when  he  submitted  under  the  amnesty.  When  he  came  in 
to  me  to  submit  he  looked  like  a  Texas  ranger. 

Q.  He  was  pointed  out  here  as  leading  Democratic  candidate  for  the 
legislature. — A.  I  think  his  residence  was  in  the  edge  of  Catawba.  His 
brother,  Peter  M.  Mull,  lives  in  Catawba.  The  upper  end  of  his  planta- 
tion is  in  Burke.     He  was  never  a  representative  or  candidate. 

Q.  I  asked  you  if  Mr.  Tom  Davis,  a  marshal,  did  not  ride  through  a 
great  deal  of  that  country  by  himself,  executing  warrants. — A.  Yes,  sir; 
he  rode  through  that  mountain  country  at  all  times,  day  and  night,  I 
do  not  know  that  Davis  was  ever  molested,  or  that  there  was  any  dis- 
position to  molest  him.  I  have  defended  as  high  as  forty  men  arrested 
— brought  into  one  court  by  Davis.  I  think  universally'  they  had  a 
kind  feeling  towards  Davis.  He  was  a  very  pnulent  sort  of  man,  and 
after  arresting  them  he  would  treat  them  with  great  kindness  and  con- 
sideration. If  he  had  contidence  in  them  he  would  let  them  oft'  to  go 
and  hunt  their  bondsmen,  and  never  used  rough  or  disagreeable  lan- 
guage to  them.     So  far  as  I  know,  he  is  popular  among  those  peoi)le. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  any  of  them  he  let  off  in  that  way  to  hunt 
their  bondsmen  ever  deceived  himf — A.  I  think  they  generally  came  up 
in  almost  all  instances  where  he  let  them  go. 

Q.  And  you  say,  then,  to  your  best  knowledge  and  information,  that 
it  never  was  at  any  time  unsafe  for  a  well-dressed  man  to  ride  any- 
where through  that  i)ortion  of  the  country? — A.  That  general  propo^-i- 
tion  is  not  true.  There  are  particular  offlcers  who  had  made  themselves 
odious  in  that  country  who  would  not  be  safe.  I  believe  I  told  Dr.  Mott, 
in  a  conversation  with  him  after  this  difficulty  with  Gillespie,  that  I 
doubted  very  much  whether  Gillespie,  if  kept  up  there,  would  be  safe 
among  those  people,  and  I  would  be  very  much  gratitied  if  he  would  re- 
move him.  I  wanted  to  save  violence.  The  reason  alleged  by  those 
people  for  their  antipathy  to  him  was  that  he  had  talked  very  impru- 
dently and  roughly  to  them  when  he  took  hold  of  them.  For  instance, 
I  recollect  that  it  was  generally  circulated  among  those  people,  the 
Yorks  and  others,  that  Gillespie  had  said  upon  the  streets  of  Morgan- 
ton  that  throughout  all  that  South  Mountain  country  they  would  swear 
lies,  and  that  all  of  them  would  perjure  themselves  for  a  very  small  con- 
sideration. And  that,  and  his  conduct  iu  making  arrests,  had  made  him 
very  odious.  So  it  was  with  Deaver,  one  of  his  predecessors,  who  made 
himself  very  odious  to  the  people  there. 

Cross-examination  by  Mr.  Pool: 
Q.  Almost  every  point  upon  which  you  have  been  examined  has  been 
gone  over  hy  other  witnesses,  and  your  evidence  in  the  main  is  a  re- 


442  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

ijapitiiliitioii  of  what  has  beea  told;  but  there  is  one  point  that  I  desire 
to  examine  yon  upon  in  the  start  before  we  go  into  details.  You  say 
that  there  has  been  a  great  prejudiee  against  the  law  itself,  as  well  as 
the  execution  of  it,  and  one  reason  assigned  was  that  the  capacity  of 
the  stills  as  required  by  the  government  was  so  large  that  those  who 
had  made  it  the  business  of  their  lives,  many  of  them,  were  unable  to 
distill  under  the  revenue  law  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  1  said  these  two 
things  together.  I  said  one  reason  why  the  law  was  odious  was  that  it 
wask  something  new.  It  broke  up  the  business  that  men  relied  upon  for 
support;  and  in  anotlier  connection  I  said  on  one  occasion,  talking  to 
Dr.  ^lott — I  do  not  know  that  there  was  any  public  sentiment  about 
the  capacity  of  the  stills — the  trouble  was  of  that  kind. 

Q.  I  may  have  misunderstood  you,  because  it  has  been  said  in  all  of 
the  reports  against  the  system  that  a  poor  man  could  not  run  a  still 
because  they  required  such  a  large  one  ? — A.  I  don't  know  that  I  said  it. 
1  believe  1  have  heard  such  remarks  made,  perhaps. 

Q.  You  said  that  you  thought  that  illicit  distilling  would  be  decreased 
by  allowing  stills  of  less  capacity  than  the  regular  stills,  and  before  it 
Avas  done  you  so  advised  it '?— A.  I  said  that  I  had  said  to  Dr.  Mott  in 
conversation  that  1  thought  it  i)robably  would  be  best  to  try  to  induce 
these  small  distillers  to  go  into  distilling,  and  that  was  my  impression 
that  it  was  better  for  the  country  until  I  saw  it  tried. 

Q.  That  would  require  a  reduction  of  the  ca])acity  f — A.  Yes,  sir. 
Q.  I  understood  you  to  intimate  that  the  small  distiller,  at  the  reduced 
•capacity  of  four  bushels,  could  not  make  money  except  in  some  corrupt 
collusion? — A.  That  is  my  impression. 

Q.  Please  explain,  if  you  can,  why  the  small  distiller  could  not  make 
money  as  well  as  the  large  one. — A.  The  calculation  is  not  one  that  I 
have  ever  entered  into.  I  stated  what  the  public  opinion  was,  and  you 
hear  the  remark  and  expression  of  opinion  there  "that  a  man  cannot 
make  money  at  a  small  distillery  when  corn  is  a  dollar  a  bushel  and 
whisky  is  selling  at  $1.25  and  $1.30  and  do  a  legitimate  business." 

(.}.  i)o  you  know  any  reason  why  he  could  not  do  as  well  in  a  small 
distillery  as  m  a  large  one"? — A.  I  could  not  make  the  figures.  I  only 
.state  that  the  impression  exists.  I  suppose  that  one  reason  why  the 
chances  are  better  at  a  large  distillery  is  that  whatever  expenditure 
ther«^  is  for  fixtures,  &c.,  as  an  outlay,  is  distributed  amonir  a  greater 
number  of  gallons  of  whisky.     That  would  seem  to  be  api)arent. 

Q.  P>ut  the  outlay  to  sucli  a  small  distillery  is  very  small,  and  would 
not  exceed  .*H)()  or  $200  ? — A.  1  do  not  know  what  it  is. 

().  Did  you  ever  hear  any  of  the  men  who  ex])ressed  that  opinion 
giving  any  r<*ason  why  a  man  could  not  make  money  when  whisky  was 
stdling  at  $1.'")~)  a  gallon  and  coi'ii  at  $1  a  bushel? — A.  I  lu^ver  heard 
any  distillers  giving  reasons. 

(\).  You  have  never  heard  any  reason  given  for  that  opinion  atallf — 
A.  I  do  not  know  that  1  ev<'r  saw  the  tignres  made  up  by  anyone.  Per- 
haps i  hav(^  seen  the  (igures  made  in  some  of  the  newspapers,  but  not 
in  IIk'sc  conveisations  that  we  have  had. 

i}.  !)(»  yon  recollect  ever  seeing  any  figures  made  in  distinction  be- 
tween a  small  distillery  and  a  large  one  in  r<'gard  to  the  relative 
piolits  .' — A.  I  have  only  heard  discussions  as  to  the  chaiutes  of  those 
small  distilleries. 

(,).  Then  I  understand  the  eliiirge  !<»  have  been,  those  lunning  small 
distilleries,  to  make  money,  must  nee<'ss;irily  have  som(^  corrui)t  arrange- 
ment with  the  storekeepeV;  that  is  the  i<lea  1'— A.  Yes,  sir;  and  in  ad- 
dition to  th;it  I  have  heard  iiimors  that  there  Wi^w  such  arrangemc^nts. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTKICT    OF    NOKTH    CAROLINA.  443 

For  instance,  the  one  I  recollect  is  tliat  a  man  told  nie  lie  was  a|)i)ointed 
8torekeei)er,  and  while  he  had  the  ai»i>(>nitinent  several  different  persons 
l)roi)Osed  to  him  to  embark  in  distilling  with  them. 

Q.  Was  that  INIr.  Urnner  ? — A.  A  man  in  IJurke  Connty,  by  the 
name  ofN.  L.  Chapman.  As  well  as  I  recollect  now,  lie  said  they  ottered 
him — that  was  when  they  were  paying  $4  a  day  to  storekeepers — from 
.seventy-five  cents  to  $2  a  day  ont  of  his  pay;  but  he  declined  to  make 
any  such  agreement,  and  therefore  was  never  assigned.  Xo  distiller 
would  choose  him.  The  distillers  generally  bad  storekeepers  assigned 
that  they  wanted. 

Q.  I  was  not  asking  you  for  ])articular  instances  yet  awhile.  And 
you  said  the  imi)ression  among  the  better  class  of  the  community  an<l 
individuals  with  whom  you  talked — men  of  standing — was  that  these 
small  distilleries  could  not  be  run  to  make  a  profit  unless  there  was  a 
corrupt  collusion  between  the  distillers  and  storekeepers,  and  that  you 
knew  nothing  about  it  yourself,  but  that  was  the  general  imi)ression. 
You  never  heard  it  suggested  why  it  could  not  have  been  done  at  a 
small  distillery  as  well  as  a  large  one,  and  that  you  knew  nothing  about 
ir.  I  want  to  ask  you  if  that  would  not  require  them  to  swear  falsely  ? — 
A.  1  do  not  know  the  oath  they  take.  The  impression  is  that  it  re- 
(juires  some  equivocation  on  the  part  of  the  storekeeper  and  distiller, 
and  those  peoi)le  think  it  is  calculated  to  demoralize  the  country  when 
an  im])ression  exists  that  this  is  necessary  to  be  done. 

Q.  The  law  requires  that  a  storekeeper  shall  take  an  oath.  Of  course, 
storekeepers,  in  getting  into  any  such  collusion  as  that  and  violating 
the- law,  it  would  involve  the  necessity  of  swearing  falsely,  both  on  the 
])ai  t  of  the  storekeeper  and  distiller.  Is  it  possible  that  the  community 
has  that  idea  that  the  majority  of  the  distillers  and  storekeepers  will 
swear  falsely? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  they  have  that  idea — that  is, 
without  exception  ;  but  so  far  as  I  have  talked  I  have  got  the  general 
impression  of  intelligent  men,  and  they  thiidc  that  with  the  majority  of 
slills  there  is  such  a  collusion. 

Q.  That  the  majority  of  the  distillers  in  that  district,  and  the  majority; 
of  the  storekeepers,  of  course,  swear  falsely j  and  they  have  to  do  it 
ever}'  month  in  their  monthly  returns? — A.  I  do  not  know  how  that  is. 

Q.  Bo  you  know  a  great  many  of  these  distillers?— A.  I  cannot  say  a 
great  many. 

Q.  Do  you  think  you  know  half  of  them? — A.  Oh,  no,  sir. 

(}.  Are  they  generally  a  class  of  meu  who  would  swear  falsely? — A.  I 
could  not  say  that  I  know  the  general  character  of  distillers.  I  have 
known  some  whom  1  unhesitatingly  say  would  not  bear  such  a  charac- 
ter; but  others  I  do  not  know.  And  perhaps  others,  from  what  I  have 
lieard,  I  might  possibly  say  that  their  characters  were  not  of  the  best; 
but  as  a  class  I  do  not  know  their  characters,  except  as  derived  from 
these  general  impressions. 

Q.  You  know  a  good  many  of  the  storekeepers,  do  you  not? — A.  Not 
a  great  many. 

Q.  You  know  a  good  many  of  them ;  are  they  men  whose  character 
would  justify  you  in  believing  that  they  would  swear  falsely  ? — A.  Some 
of  them  are  not.  Some  of  them  1  know.  You  do  not  want  my  opinion ; 
you  want  the  opinion  of  the  community,  so  far  as  I  know? 

Q.  I  want  to  correct  the  opinion  of  theconununity  ? — A.  Some  of  them 
I  do  not  think  capable  of  doing  such  a  thing.  Others,  the  community 
think  they  would. 

Q.  Of  course  there  may  be  some  exceptions.  You  state  that  the  im- 
]>ressiou  was  general  that  that  was  so  in  the  majority  of  instances  ?= — 


444  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

A.  That  there  was  division  of  pay  between  storekeepers  and  distillers, 
whatever  may  be  the  consequences  of  that;  and  the  impression  was  that 
it  involved  some  sort  of  fraud  upon  the  government. 

Q.  Do  you  think,  from  your  knowledge  of  the  character  of  the  store- 
keepers and  distillers,  that  that  impression  can  be  well-foun<led  ? — A. 
If  I  rely  upon  the  information  that  I  ha\e  had,  I  would  thiidc  it  must 
be  true  in  a  great  many  cases. 

Q.  You  could  not  state  it  was  true  in  the  majority  of  cases  ?  I  m<Mn 
that  you  think  it  was  ? — A.  My  impression  is  onl}'  derived  from  this 
general  talking  about. 

Q.  I  am  trying  to  correct  the  general  impression  from  your  own  indi- 
vidual knowledge  of  the  character  of  the.men  ? — A.  When  1  come  down 
to  individuals,  such  as  I  know,  I  can  form  a  decided  impression  in  every 
instance.  As  I  say  to  you  there  are  a  number  of  cases  from  what  I 
have  heard,  that  1  believe  it  must  be  so. 

Dr.  MoTT.  Judge,  we  want  your  opinion. 

The  Witness.  The  difticulty  is  that  I  have  no  idea  who  are  store- 
keepers outside  of  my  own  county.  AVhen  you  come  to  name  individuals, 
I  do  not  know,  perhaps,  half  who  hold  commissions  in  my  own  county. 

Dr.  MoTT.  AVe  want  to  judge  them  by  the  character  of  the  men  in 
your  county  and  form  an  estimate. 

'  The  AVitness.  I  do  not  know  all  in  my  own  county.  Some  of  those 
in  my  own  county  there  I  would  rely  upon,  and  others  I  would  not  de- 
Ijend  on  individually. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Is  it  your  opinion  that  that  general  rumor  in  tli'e  community,  in 
your  individual  opinion,  is  true  '? — A.  I  am  obliged  to  conclude,  irom  all 
the  sources  of  information  that  I  can  get,  that  it  is  true  in  a  very  large 
number  of  instances.  If  you  just  ask  for  my  opinion,  I  tell  you.  I 
have  no  positive  information.  Such  an  opinion  is  derived  from  the  talk 
of  the  community. 

Q.  Bearing  upon  that,  can  you  instance  any  cases  where  there  has 
been  division  between  storekeepers  and  distillers  ? — A.  I  have  stated 
at  the  start  that  I  do  not  of  ui}'  own  personal  knowledge  state  any- 
thing. 

(^).  Did  you,  however,  hear  these  accusations  brought  against  any  par- 
ticular person  byname? — A.  lam  satisfied  I  have.  It  will  take  me 
some  time  to  recall  the  particular  instance  in  which  I  have  heard  men 
say  theie  has  been  division. 

Q.  \V(!  would  like  to  have  some  names  ?-^A.  I  recall  what  a  man  by 
the  mime  of  Cha])nuin  told  me. 

Q.  We  want  to  see  if  you  can  go  outside  of  Uruner  and  ('hai>iiiaii  ? 

The  Cleuk.  The  Chapman  the  judge  alludes  to  is  a  (liffcrcnt  man 
fiom  the  revenue  agent. 

Jiy  Mr.  Pool  : 
i}.  Ontside  of  Pruner  and  Chapman  do  you  know  any  instance  of  an 
in(li\  idnal  by  nan)e — storekeeper  or  distiller — who  was  chai'ged  with 
this  division' of  the  pay  of  the  storekeeper? — A.  This  nuitter  is  gen- 
erally a  (ransa(!tion  between  the  storekeepei-  and  distiller,  and  neither 
one;  of  Wu'AH  can  be;  compelled  to  criminate  himself.  The  impression 
is  in  the  eonidry  that  there  is  an  understanding  between  them  i)re- 
liniinary  to  starting  nu)st  of  these  distiUeries.  I  do  not  recol](>ct  par- 
ticnlar  instances  in  which  I  have  heard  that.  1  think  I  havi^  heard 
some  (dliers  i»csides  w  lial  Ah'.  ( Ihapman  told  me  in  which  distilleries 
were  )iiil   in  ad  nal  ojicral  ion. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  445 

Q.  ]\Ir.  Cniapiuaii  was  a  store  keei)er,  Avas  lie  not? — A.  I  do  iiottliink 
lie  ever  jiot  an  assi<;imieiit,  and  lie  told  me  lie  conld  not  get  an  ai^- 
.signinentbecanse  lie  would  not  agree  to  divide  his  ])ay. 

Q.  He  was  a  storekeeper  ? — A.  lie  was  eoininissioned  a  storekeeper 
and  filed  his  bond. 

Q.  Did  lie  file  his  bond  ? — A.  1  think  he  so  stated.  It  is  my  impres- 
sion he  state<l  it  to  me  that  he  could  not  get  an  assignment  because  he 
Mould  not  divide  pay.  It  may  be  that  I  inferred  from  that  that  he  had 
tiled  his  bond. 

Q.  You  did  not  have  any  other  reason  for  knowing  that  except  that 
Cha])nian  said  that  he  filed  his  bond  ? — A.  I  cannot  state  that  for  cer- 
tain. 

Q.  Then  there  is  no  individnal  instance  that  you  can  now  give  us,  so 
that  we  could  bring  the  men  here  and  ask  them — only  general  rumor? — 
A.  1  state  this  from  what  I  have  heard  from  others.  I  think  you  will 
find  a  good  many  instances,  if  yonr  investigation  continues,  in  which 
you  will  be  asked  to  bring  storekeepers  before  yon  on  acconnt  of  that 
im])ression. 

Q.  We  have  been  searching  witnesses  for  three  weeks  to  get  the 
names  of  somebody. — A.  I  think  yon  will  find  there  is  a  large  number 
of  them  who  are  thought  by  the  community  to  be  dividing  their  pay  ; 
and  if  yon  want  plenty  of  names  they  will  be  snggested  to  yon  from 
what  I  have  heard. 

Q.  That  may  in  the  future ;  we  have  been  diligently  searching  for 
the  past  three  weeks. — A.  That  is  what  I  jndgefrom  the  talk  I  hear. 

Q.  I  understand  yon  are  basing  yonr  impression  upon  the  rumors 
that  are  floating  around  ;  is  it  not  a  fact  that  the  politics  of  that  country 
has  been  running  on  the  Democratic  side  iu  a  line  of  denunciation  of 
these  officers  and  the  laws,  by  stump  speakers  as  well  as  the  public 
press? — A.  Oh,  there  has  been  a  good  deal  of  denunciation  by  the 
Denn^cratic  stump  speakers. 

Q.  Has  that  not  been  a  source  of  the  many  prejudicial  rumors  that 
are  circulated  against  them  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  what  you  mean.  I 
have  heard  them  talk  frequently  about  the  office. 

Q.  I  mean  denounced  upon  the  stump  ? — A.  And  the  manner  of  ex- 
ecuting the  law  denounced. 

Q.  1  mean,  in  general  terms.  You  said  there  was  a  rumor  about  Mor- 
ganton  about  one  or  two  storekeepers  who  were  relatives  of  the  men 
who  really  owned  the  stills  ;  they  ran  in  somebody  else's  name.  What 
are  five  names  of  those  storekeepers  ?  Is  Gudger  one  of  them  ? — A.  Gludger 
i,s  a  ne])hew,  by  marriage,  of  Mr.  Garrison. 

Q.  What  was  the  other's  name'? — A.  Kobert  Powell  had  a  distillery. 
1  tliink  it  is  nominally  owned  by  his  brother-in-law,  Jones  Martin,  and 
the  actual  distiller  is  his  brother,  Tom  Powell;  but  the  general  impres- 
«ion  in  the  community  is  that  Robert  Powell  is  the  owner  of  the  estab- 
lishment. 

Q.  We  have  had  it  all  out  by  other  witnesses;  I  just  want  to  identify 
it. — A.  Do  you  ask  me  of  the  instances  I  know  anything  about? 

P.  Yes,  around  Morgauton,  of  the  instances  where  you  understood 
that  some  relatives  of  the  officers  were  the  real  owners  of  the  distiller- 
ies ? — A.  There  was  some  talk  about  the  distillery  that  E.  L.  Walton 
is  said  to  have  had  built  on  his  own  laud  there  in  the  immediate  vicinity 
of  the  town. 

Q.  You  understand  my  puri)ose.  I  see  that  you  are  talking  about 
«ome  things  wehavebeen  over  with  other  witnesses,  and  it  w^as  inferred 
from   that  that  there  was  a  collusion  between    the  storekeeper  and 


446  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

distiller? — A.  In  Mr.  rowcll's  case  the  iin[)res.si(ni  is  that  he  owned  the 
<listillery  which  he  was  iuiiiiiii<;'. 

().  He  owned  it  hiniself  and  ran  it  frandnlently  ? — A.  Yes,  sir  ;  tluit 
is  the  impression  of  tlie  coninuinity  ;  I  do  not  know  how  jnst  it  is. 

Q.  Is  Mr.  Powell  a  m.in  whose  (diaracter  will  allow  him  to  b<^  amena- 
ble to  the  idea  that  he  wonld  swear  falsely  month  aft(;r  month  i? — A.  [ 
cannot  say  that  it  is  not  or  that  it  is.  Mr.  Powell  went  away  from  our 
commnnity,  as  I  understood,  soon  after  the  war  and  left  his  wife  therein 
our  county.  He  was  gone  a  good  many  years,  until  he  had  almost 
passed  out  of  view.  He  was  said  to  be  out  in  Tennessee.  He  came 
back  and  settled  down  with  Ids  family  at  Morganton  perhaps  four  or 
live  years  ago.  During  that  time  I  have  been  away  most  of  the  time. 
I  cannot  say  that  his  character  is  such  as  wouhl  protect  him  against 
such  an  assertion  ;  nor  will  I  say  that  his  character  is  universally  bad. 

Q.  Is  Mr.  Gudger  a  man  whose  character  would  render  him  liable  to 
such  a  charge  as  that  ? — A.  Mr.  Gudger  is  a  young  man;  he  came  over 
from  Buncombe  a  few  years  ago  and  settled  out  in  the  country.  I  can 
not  give  his  general  reputation. 

Q.  You  know  him  personally  ? — A.  I  know  him  ])ersonally. 

().  Can  you  judge  whether  he  is  a  man  that  would  swear  falsely  ? — A. 
I  could  not  give  his  character;  L  do  not  know  what  is  his  general  repu- 
tation. 

Q.  In  regard  to  Mr.  "Walton,  is  he  a  man  whose  character  would  make 
him  amenable  to  false  swearing f — A.  No,  sir;  I  say  Mr.  Walton  is  a 
man  of  good  character. 

Q.  I  am  only  endeavoring  to  show  that  these  rumors  might  be  very 
unjust  to  men  of  good  character  when  simply  based  upon  susi>icion. 

The  Chaiemax.  May  be  they  were  not  sworn  at  all,  but  taken  in  Mr. 
Clarke's  way  as  a  mere  matter  of  form. 

Mr.  Pool.  A  great  many  might  be,  but  we  are  oidy  speaking  of  what 
a])pears  on  investigation  here. 

The  WiTNi^ss.  As  to  Mr.  Powell  there  is  another  matter  of  com[»laint, 
and  that  is  that  he  is  incompetent;  that  he  could  not  kee[>  his  accounts 
as  a  storekeeper,  and  has  to  get  somebody  else  to  make  them  up  for 
him. 

Q.  Did  yon  ever  see  any  of  Mr.  Powell's  writing? — A.  I  never  did.  I 
will  tell  you  one  reason  why  I  say  what  I  did.  I  heard  Mr.  Bristol  say 
casually — that  is,  I  heai'd  the  remark  made  generally — 1  heard  Mr.  Bris- 
tol say  that  he  had  made  out  all  these  accounts;  that  Mr.  Powell  could 
not  make  them  out,  and  couhl  only  keep  memoranda. 

Q.   Is  Mr.  Bristol  a  man  of  good  cliara(;ter? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(^.  He  had  been  a  stoiekeeper ? — A.  He  is  not  now. 

Q.  He  ha«l  been  ? — A.  I  think  he  has  been,  but  he  is  not  a  storekeeper 
now. 

i^.  Yon  do  not  think"  that  he  is  a  man  that  would  swear  falsely!' — A. 
II(;  was  a  storekee|»er  several  years  ago,  at  the  tinm  when  1  di<l  not  hear 
anything  about  these  rumors,  at  least  as  I  hear  them  now . 

(^.  \N'onld  he  engager  in  making  out  fals*^  accounts?  1  meant  to  ask 
you  that  instead  oi"  asking  whether  he  wonld  swear  falsely. — A.  I  sup- 
pose Ik',  ma<le  ont  PowelTs  statements  just  as  Powell  gave  him  the  data 
to  make  them  out,  from  what  he  said. 

<).  What  be(;aine  of  the  indictments  against  Mr.  Gill(\spie  ? — A.  The 
indict merds  were  i'em()v<'(l  from  the  State,  to  the  l^'ederal  courts  in  the 
spring  of  isso.  I  went  npon  tliel)en<'h  that  fall;  l)ut  1  und(ust(K»d  at 
the  fall  term  there  was  a  comi>romise  made.     Two  of  the  York  boys  had 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  447 

been  indicted  for  illicit  distilling';  and  tlie  Yorks  did   not  insist  njion 
llicir  ])r<)SCcntion,  and  the  goNcinment  did  not  insist  npon  theirs. 

Q.  Mr.  (Jillesi)ie  was  indicted  for  assault  and  trespass  ? — A,  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  they  were  indicted  for  viohdion  of  the  revenue  lawsi? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

(}.  And  all  went  oft'  together? — A.  1  suppose  their  indictment  was 
for  distilling  whisky.  The  indic-tineut  Gillespie  had  biought  against 
York  for  Lis  transactions  in  brandy  1  did  not  think  was  a  just  one — 
at  best  it  was  a  teclinical  violation  of  the  law.  The  Yorks  were  igno- 
rant people.  As  well  as  I  recollect,  there  was  some  paper  they  had  to 
sign — the  teclinical  name  I  do  not  recollect — in  order  to  start  to  distill 
brandy.  Jt  was  agreed  that  the  brandy  should  be  stored  in  his  house. 
Instead  of  storing  it  in  his  house — he  did  not  know^  what  he  had  signed — 
he  had  a  shed  built  in  a  fence  corner  iu  w  hich  he  put  the  brandy,  and 
he  was  indicted  for  not  putting  the  brandy  where  h(»  had  agreed  to 
store  it — iu  his  own  house. 

Q.  Y"ou  said  there  was  some  prejudice  against  the  revenue  officers 
because  of  their  earnestness  in  party  nuitters.  Of  course  you  mean  to 
confine  the  prejudice  from  that  source  to  the  Democratic  party? — A.  I 
stated  there  was  some  prejudice  on  that  account,  more  than  would  have 
been  otherwise. 

(^).  That  prejudice  would  not  be  among  Eepublicans? — A.  Xot  as  a 
general  rule.  I  suppose  there  may  have  been  some  civil-reform  men 
among  them  in  North  Carolina. 

Q,  The  substance  of  all  this  about  collusion  between  storekeepers 
and  distillers  is  that  it  is  corrupting  the  communities? — A.  Yes,  sir.  I 
might  have  stated  as  a  reason  for  that  opinion  another  opinion  that 
exists,  and  that  is  that  in  some  sections  the  storekeepers  are  in  the 
habit  of  turning  over  their  keys  to  distillers. 

Q.  In  the  habit  of  doing  so? — A.  Yes,  sir.  I  heard  just  a  rumor  of 
this  sort  when  down  in  Gaston  last  fall.  It  was  talked  a  good  deal 
around  as  a  rumor  that  a  goodly  number  of  the  storekeepers'  keys  in 
Gaston  County  had  been  sent  down  by  the  distillers  to  a  locksmith  by 
the  name  of  Kuester,  in  Charlotte,  and  he  had  made  duplicates,  whicli 
implied  that  the  storekeepers  had  handed  over  the  keys  to  the  distillers. 

Q.  How  long  ago  was  that'? — A.  When  holding  court  iu  Gaston 
County  last  fall  I  heard  it  talked  about. 

Q.  Was  that  ever  reported  to  the  collector's  office"? — A.  I  do  not 
know\  It  was  not  my  business  to  report  it.  I  just  heard  that  conver 
sation  among  the  gentlemen  about  the  hotel. 

Q.  You  just  heard  that  as  a  runu)r  '? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  There  was  no  particular  distiller's  name  mentioned  ? — A.  If  there 
was  I  would  not  have  known  him.  It  was  in  a  part  of  country  I  was 
not  well  acquainted  with. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  the  nnitterwas  ever  investigated  ? — A.  No, 
sir.  I  know  nothing  except  that  the  matter  was  mentioned  several 
times  about  the  hotel. 

Q.  Did  you  hear  the  name  of  the  locksmith  ? — A.  Mr.  Kuester.  He 
is  a  locksnnth  in  Charlotte  who  had  a  great  deal  of  ingenuity,  as  those 
know  who  have  had  him  to  supply  trunk  keys. 

Q.  That  would  be  a  very  grave  charge,  and  if  generally  circulated  it 
would  be  thought  that  there  would  be  some  proceedings  by  the  United 
States  commissioner  about  it  ? — A.  I  cannot  say  that  a  majority  of  the 
people  of  Gaston  County  said  it.  My  intercourse  was  with  a  very 
limited  number  while  I  held  court.     I  merely  mentioned  that  to  show 


448  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Avliat  the  differeut  circumstances  were  that  had  uiiuh^.  this  impression 
upon  me,  because  you  asked  me  for  my  individual  impressions. 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  any  name  of  any  gentleman  of  character  who 
made  that  charge  about  Mr.  Kuester's  having  had  the  keys  sent  to 
liiui^? — A.  Yes,  sir.  I  recollect  one  man  of  decided  cliaracter  who  men- 
tioned it. 

Q.  Did  he  mention  it  of  his  own  knowledge,  or  of  having  heard  it 
himself? — A.  He  just  stated  it;  whether  he  said  he  was  informed  of  it 
or  whether  he  said  it  was  positively  so,  as  a  gentleman  ordinarily  men- 
tions a  matter  that  is  true;  at  this  length  of  time  I  cannot  say  whether 
he  had  any  qualitication — as  I  am  reliably  informed  or  I  know  the  gen- 
tleman's statement  was  that. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  I  think  you  told  me,  judge,  that  Kuester,  the  locksmith,  had  told 
you  so  liimself  ? — A.  It  may  have  been  that  way.  I  think  probably  I 
iiad  forgotten  a  conversation  just  after  Gaston  court,  in  which  I  men- 
tioned it.  to  Governor  Yance,  and  I  may  have  said  that  Kuester  told 
me — the  precise  language  I  cannot  recollect. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Who  was  the  gentleman  who  informed  you? — A.  The  Hon.  David 
Jenkins,  of  Gaston. 

Q.  Could  you  name  another  gentlenmn  that  you  now  recall  ? — A.  I 
heard  the  matter  talked  of  among  other  gentlemen,  but  cannot  posi- 
tively recollect  the  name  of  another.  I  would  not  state  positively  an- 
other name. 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  that  David  A.  Jenkins  was  an  applicant  for  Dr. 
]\Iott's  i)lace  at  the  time  1 — A.  I  do  not  know  whether  he  had  made  any 
api)lication  then ;  subsequently,  I  think,  he  was. 

Q.  Was  he  being  urged  actively  b^^  his  political  friends  for  the 
place? — A.  I  so  understood  after  that  time  ;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  A  charge  of  that  sort,  if  substantiated  at  all,  would  be  very  apt  to 
cause  the  removal  of  the  collector? — A.  I  should  think  it  would;  it 
would  show  a  great  want  of  diligence  on  his  part. 

Q.  Another  matter  which  you  were  called  upon  to  testify  about,  and 
which  had  been  gone  over  with  before,  was  in  regard  to  Mr.  Davis  go- 
ing through  and  executing  warrants  in  the  worse  parts  even  of  the  dis- 
tri(;t  witliout  being  interfered  with.  What  Mr.  Davis  was  that  ? — A.  T. 
K.  ]>avis. 

Q.  Who  was  a  witness  here  ? 

The  Chaiiiman.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Witness.  I  think  1  heard  he  was  examined  here. 

]5y  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q,  Air.  Davis  stated  all  about  that  himself  here.  He  said  he  had  to 
treat  those  jx'ople  very  (•arefully,  and  act  with  moderation. — A.  Talking 
from  the  stan<ljM)inr  of  my  clients  1  found  generally  his  good  conduct  had 
made  him  most  jtopulai'  with  them,  and  judging  from  their  sentiment 
Willi  icgai-d  to  him  1  felt  he  was  i)erfe<;tly  safe. 

(I  And  that  is  what  he  stated  himself,  and  seemed  to  intimate,  that 
his  safety  rciiiuiriMJ  him  to  act  that  way  ?  You  say  among  other  things 
I'lat  h(^  used  to  h^t  tlic  men  off  after  an  arrest,  so  that  tliey  could  hunt 
(i|)  hondsMM'u  ? — A.  I  would  say  there  were  several  instances.  Ido  not 
HiiiiU  that  was  a  hal>it  with  him. 

(f.  Was  it  in  a<M'or(hiiu',e  with  an  ofliccr's  duty  to  do  that  ? — A.  No, 
.sir;   lie  (lid  it  at  his  own  peril. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  449 

Q.  Of  course  he  was  responsible.  He  did  it  at  his  own  i)eril,  but  I 
am  asking  you  about  the  pul)lic.  Was  it  yjroper  for  an  officer  to  do 
such  a  thing-,  even  at  his  peril  ? — A.  It  is  not  strictly  so,  but  a  great 
many  officers  do  it  all  over  the  country'. 

The  CiiAiiiMAN.  Such  as  sheriffs  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  if  an  officer,  I  would 
be  inclined  in  many  instances  to  do  it.  They  catch  men  at  times  where 
it  is  impossible  for  them  to  have  an  <)i)portunity  to  give  bail,  and  es- 
pecially in  some  instances  where  they  require  a  bail  above  the  home- 
stead— too  large  an  amount  for  them  to  attach  for  violating  the  law. 
It  wonld  be  very  mortifying,  perhaps,  to  put  a  man  of  that  kind  in  jail, 
and  where  they  might  be  men  wlio  would  tell  the  truth  and  you  could 
rely  upon  them  if  they  promised.  I  think  that  an  officer — while  strictly 
liable  for  doing  so — would  attempt  to  do  so  in  a  great  man}"  cases  where 
he  knew  the  men. 

Q.  Do  you  think  that  that  speaks  very  well  of  the  state  of  public 
sentiment  where  an  officer  has  to  resort  to  such  a  thing  in  order  to  se- 
cure his  personal  safety! — A.  I  do  not  think  it  necessary  for  him  to  re- 
sort to  that. 

Q.  Mr.  Davis  thought  a  general  leniency  of  conduct  was  necessary 
in  order  to  secure  his  safety  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  what  Mr,  Davis's 
opinion  was,  but  my  opinion  is  he  was  secure  because  he  was  not  vio- 
lent, imprudent,  indiscreet,  and  doing  things  gratuitously  to  make  these 
l^eople  mad  in  the  conduct  of  his  business. 

Q.  Has  there  been  a  great  deal  of  improvement  in  this  district  within 
the  last  three  or  four  years! — A.  In  what  respect! 

Q.  In  the  respect  of  public  feeling  and  the  way  in  which  the  revenue 
law  is  regarded  and  its  execution. — A.  You  ask  for  my  opinion!  I  do 
not  think  so;  that  question  I  answered  in  giving  my  opinion  before.  I 
think,  from  all  the  information  I  can  get,  there  is  a  mistake  in  the 
methods.  While  blockade  distilling,  as  it  is  called,  has  been  dimin- 
ished, I  think  the  i)resent  system  is  having-  a  more  demoralizing  effect 
upon  the  country — the  execution  of  the  law  as  it  is  executed  now — than 
it  did  when  Dr.  Mott  first  took  charge  of  its  operations  in  the  district. 

Q.  There  has  been  a  very  large  increase  in  the  collections,  as  shown 
by  the  rei)orts,  and  while  the  increase  in  the  expenses  is  great  too,  still 
the  net  amount  to  the  government  is  much  in  excess  of  what  It  was  be- 
fore this  system  was  adoi)ted. — A.  That  I  understood  to  be  so,  but  I  do 
not  think  that  anything'  can  comijensate  for  the  lowering  of  the  moral 
tone  of  a  community;  that  is  the  idea,  whether  true  or  not.  The  idea 
that  these  frauds  are  resorted  to,  and  the  \ery  impression  in  the  com- 
uiunit;^  that  this  is  a  way  to  profit  and  advantage  on  the  part  of  young- 
men  starting  out  in  the  country,  has  a  demoralizing  effect,  which  I 
think  is  perceptible  in  the  country. 

Q.  From  the  character  of  the  officers,  and  from  the  character  of  the 
■distillers  all  through  that  district,  do  you  think  this  impression  is  a  cor- 
rect and  fair  one;  in  other  words,  do  you  think  they  are  such  men  as 
M'ould  engage  in  any  such  thing  as  these  rumors  point  out! — A.  Some 
of  them  are  not,  but  a  number  of  them — I  think  the  general  im- 
pression is  that  a  large  number — wovdd  and  do  engage  in  it,  and  I  can- 
not help  from  saying  that  that  is  my  general  impression,  from  the  in- 
formation that  I  have  had. 

Q.  I  was  endeavoring  to  get  your  own  ()i)inion  ! — A.  As  I  stated,  I 
know  some  of  them  that  I  do  not  think  would,  from  what  I  know  of  their 
character. 

Q.  There  are  some  four  hundred  distillers,  and  there  must  be  some 
four  hundred  officers  in  the  district,  which   is  eight  hundred  men. — A. 
S.  Mis.  116 29 


450  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

But  a  comparatively  small  number  of  them  I  know  personally,  and  my 
impression  of  them  is  formed  from  talking-  with  people  in  the  various 
counties  and  hearing  what  the^'  say  about  the  manner  in  which  it  is  con- 
ducted. 

Q.  You  do  know  a  goodly  number  !  Now,  of  those  you  do  know,  sup- 
l^osing  them  to  be  of  an  average  character,  with  them  would  you  say 
individually  that  they  would  engage  wholesale  in  that  sort  of  work  ? — 
A.  I  would  not  say  that  a  mnjority  of  them  are  such  as  to  give  a  lie  to 
such  an  impression.  I  would  not  say  that  a  nmjority  of  those  I  know 
are  such  as  to  contradict  such  a  view  on  the  subject. 

Q.  Is  there  any  remedy  that  you  could  suggest — any  way  to  execute 
the  law  that  would  make  it  different  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  whether  it  is 
within  the  lines  marked  out  for  the  committee,  but  I  will  state  that  my 
idea  is  that  the  whole  system  ought  to  be  abolished.  If  you  desire  to 
get  my  impression,  my^impression  'is  that  the  whole  internal-revenue 
system — the  system  of  direct  taxation — ought  to  be  abolished,  for  the 
reason  chiefly  that,  from  my  observation,  I  think  it  is  impossible  for  a 
government  to  dispense  so  large  a  patronage  without  corrupting  in- 
fluences— the  patronage  itself  incident  to  the  execution  of  that  law — 
without  the  corrui)ting  and  demoralizing  inHuences  resulting  from  it. 

Q.  Is  that  the  feeling  in  the  Democratic  party  of  the  district,  that 
the  whole  system  should  be  abolished  ? — A.  I  think  so,  universally ;  and 
I  believe  that  the  other  party  have  incorporated  a  plank  in  their  plat- 
form in  its  ftivor.  Both  parties  in  the  State  have  expressed  themselves 
in  their  platforms  in  favor  of  abolishing  the  interual-re venue  laws.  Mr. 
Dockrey's  letter  of  acceptance  to  the  llepublican  nomination  says  he  is 
in  favor  of  it,  and  will  vote  in  Congress  to  abolish  it. 

Q.  I  understand  you  to  say  that  if  the  internal-revenue  law  is  not  to 
be  abolished  that  you  do  not  know,  and  have  not  heard  suggested  by 
these  people  who  complain  of  the  present  system,  any  better  one  to  put 
in  its  place  ? — A.  If  it  be  true  what  people  generally  think  is  true,  that 
the  present  sj'stem  can  be  improved  by  a  rigid  inspection  of  what  is 
going  on — by  examining  constantly  into  the  conduct  of  the  government 
distilleries — I  think  that  can  be  improved  if  that  is  true. 

Q.  Has  there  not  been  a  rigid  insi)ection  down  there — four,  five,  or  six 
agents  from  the  department  almost  continually  in  the  district  f — A.  I 
have  not  luiurd  that.  Four  or  five  years  ago  I  recollect  of  an  agent 
named  Wagner  and  one  named  (Jh;i[)man  being  there,  but  have  heard 
of  no  agent  that  I  recollect  since. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  You  say  that  the  peoi)le  argue  in  this  way:  That  a  mnn  could  not 
do  a  legitimate  Inisiness  and  make  any  money  with  a  snuiU  distillery, 
wlicn  corn  was  a  dollar  a  bushel  and  the  price  ot  whisky  $1.25  and  $1.30 
a  gallon  ? — A.  Yes  sir. 

(}.  i\Ir.  J'ool  iisked  you  if  you  could  give  any  reason  why  there  was 
not  as  much  money  made  by  a  small  distiller  as  a  big  one,  and  you  said 
you  had  never  gone  into  the  figures. — A.  1  do  not  know,  indeed,  why  the 
same  may  not  apply  to  the  large  distilleries.  1  merely  heard  that  re- 
iiiiirlv  made  in  reference  to  the  small  distilleries  in  o[)eration  in  our 
conntry. 

(^.  Now,  let  \i.<  m;il<('  ;i  few  ligures.  Suppose  we  take  a  four-bushel 
(;;i|»iici(y  distillerx  wliicli  makes  two  galhms  to  the  bushel,  which  is  the 
minimiim  iillowcd  by  law,  and  calcnlatc  it  this  way:  Four  bushels  of 
corn,  at  $1  a  IhisIk-I,  ><l:  lax  on  eight  galh>ns  of  whisky,  at  !)(>  cents 
a  gallon,  -ST.L'O,  making  ><1 1. L'O;  product,  eight  gallons  (jf  whisky,  $1.25 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  451 

a  gallon,  $10;  that  makes  a  clear  loss  of  $1.20? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that 
seems  to  be  a  correct  calculation.  ♦ 

Q.  Suppose  you  put  four  bushels  of  corn  as  makinjf  a  i)ro(luct  of 
ten  ji'allons  of  whisky,  at  t\so  and  one-half  gallons  to  the  bushel,  that 
would  be  four  bushels  of  corn,  $4;  tax  on  ten  gallons,  $0,  which 
makes  $1.'5;  ten  gallons  of  whisky,  at  $1.25  a  gallon,  $12.50;  which 
makes  a  clear  loss  on  the  product  of  50  cents  f — A.  It  seems  so. 

Q.  Suppose  you  put  corn  at  75  cents  a  bushel,  that  would  be  four 
bushels  of  corn,  $3;  tax  on  eight  gallons  whisky,  $7.20,  which  makes 
$10.20;  and  sold  at  $1.25  a  gallon,  would  make  $10;  so  that  there 
would  be  a  clear  loss  of  20  cents  t — A.  I  believe  the  calculation  is  cor- 
rect. 

Q.  And  then,  if  you  give  the  outside  limit  and  say  the  product  is  ten 
gallons,  there  would  be  only  a  gain  of  50  cents  ;_is  that  the  way  you 
make  it  °? — A.  You  do  not  make  any  allowance  in  there  for  the  wages 
of  the  distillers  and  the  wear  and  tear  of  machinery. 

Q.  And  the  firewood,  sending  to  mill,  loss  and  wear  and  tear  of  the 
fixtures,  so  that  when  corn  is  seventy- five  cents  or  a  dollar  a  bushel, 
there  is  obliged  to  be  a  loss,  or  at  least  an  inconsiderable  profit,  unless 
there  is  something  collusive  going  on  t — A.  It  would  seem  so  from  that 
calculation. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Suppose  he  were  to  get  one-half  of  the  storekeepers'  pay,  say, 
thirty  dollars  or  fifty  dollars  a  month  from  the  storekeepers'  pay,  then 
the  distillers  would  only  make  $1  or  $1.50  more  a  day  f — A.  You  desire 
me  to  state.  It  is  ]»erhaps  due  that  I  should  state  how  these  things 
occur.  I  said  I  had  not  nuide  these  figures  as  to  the  division  of  stove- 
keepers  paying  $1.50  a  day ;  that  would  seem  to  cover  this  loss  in  one 
case  and  fifty  cents  in  the  other,  and  more  than  cover  the  loss  of  the 
twenty  cents  in  the  last  calculation.  The  impression  of  the  way  in  which 
this  is  operated  is,  that  they  divided  the  pay,  getting  one-half  or  two- 
thirds  of  it,  and  then  in  a  great  number  of  instances  they  have  the  key, 
and  after  running  oft"  two  gallons  into  the  government  cistern,  they  can 
run  oft"  for  the  distiller's  use  a  quantity  of  ''pot-tail" — a  gallon  and  a 
half  more  into  some  other  barrel — the  character  of  whisky  they  get  by 
running  close ;  and  if  they  can  dispose  of  that  in  some  way  without 
paying  taxes  upon  it,  they  can  make  a  profit. 

Q.  Do  you  think  that  would  he  a  safe  thing  for  a  man  to  undertake 
with  agents  traveling  around  through  the  district  inspecting,  and  liable- 
to  come  upon  him  at  any  moment? — A.  I  don't  know  how  safe  it  would 
be  ;  I  don't  know  many  agents  are  riding  around. 

Q.  It  has  been  in  evidence  that  there  were  seven  or  eight  of  them  in. 
the  district  last  year.  Did  not  these  distillers  have  a  large  amount  of 
stock,  hogs,  &c.  f — A.  I  think  I  heard  some  of  them  kept  a  good  many 
hogs. 

Q.  Was  there  any  distilleries  where  they  did  not  keep  hogs  ? — A.  I 
do  not  know,  sir. 

Q.  Is  not  the  main  profit  in  a  distillery  in  the  stock  raised  at  it  f — A. 
I  do  not  know  anything  about  that ;  my  impression  is  some  profit  is 
derived  in  that  way.  My  father  had  a  distillery  running  on  his  place  a 
few  months  in  the  year  when  I  was  a  boy,  and  I  think  his  idea  was  that 
a  part  of  his  compensation  was  from  fattening  his  hogs. 

Q.  In  point  of  fact,  is  it  not  the  general  impression  among  distillers 
that  their  profit  lies  in  the  nund)er  that  they  are  enabled  to  keep  ? — A. 
I  do  not  know  what  their  calculation  was. 


452  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Do  you  ineau  that  the  general  price  of  corn  in  that  country  is  a 
(Icniar  a  bushel  ? — A.  It  is  where  I  live  this  year;  it  is  not  every  year. 

Q.  I  mean  taking-  one  year  with  another? — A.  Xo,  sir ;  taking  one 
year  with  another  it  ranges  from  fifty  cents  to  a  dollar. 

Q.  Would  the  average  price  generally  exceed  sixty  cents? — A.  I  do 
not  know  that  I  could  say  that  without  making  a  calculation;  it  ranges 
from  fifty  cents  to  a  dollar. 

Q.  If  when  a  distiller  has  a  lot  of  stock  ou  hand  dependent  on  his 
distillery,  and  the  price  of  corn  goes  up,  could  he  well,  without  loss, 
break  up  and  quit ;  would  not  his  stock  almost  compel  him  to  keep 
np! — A.  I  do  not  know;  that  would  be  a  matter  of  calculation  whether 
the  benefit  to  his  stock  would  compensate  for  the  loss  on  his  whisky. 

Q.  You  have  never  heard  of  them  bringing  stock  into  the  estimate 
raised  by  these  distillers? — A.  I  have  never  made  any  figures  myself. 
Governor  Vance  has  made  these  figures. 

Q.  And  left  the  stock  out,  I  observe  ;  was  not  liog  raising  an  excel- 
lent business  in  your  section  of  the  country  ? — A.  ]S^ot  generally. 

Q.  Was  there  not  money  in  raising  hogs  there  ? — A.  I  only  state  my 
individual  experience.  I  have  not  considered  it  profitable  the  last  few 
years,  and  have  stopped,  and  buy  my  bacon.  Most  farmers  raise  their 
own  pork,  and  a  great  many  raise  to  sell. 

Q.  Is  it  not  a  part  of  the  profits  of  the  farmers  all  through  that  sec- 
tion of  the  country? — A.  Some  of  it  is,  but  a  good  many  do  fiot  think 
it  profitable,  and  prefer  to  sell  their  gram  rather  than  to  put  it  in  hogs. 

Q.  Was  it  not  important  for  the  farmer  to  have  hogs  about  his 
])liHe? — A.  Nearly  all  do  raise  their  own  pork  at  least,  but  all  do  not 
raise  pork  for  market;  a  good  many  do. 

Dr.  MoTT.  Would  it  not  be  a  hea])  better  to  have  stills  so  as  to  feed 
slop  instead  of  solid  corn  to  the  stock  ? — A.  I  suppose  if  they  had  a 
still  it  would  be  a  mistake  to  feed  corn  to  hogs  or  stock,  and  that  the 
distilleries  nnder  the  circumstances  could  better  afford  to  raise  stock 
than  the  farmer.  I  only  state  my  experience  when  a  farmer  as  to  the 
profit  derived  from  it. 

M.  L.  McCoRKLE  sworn  and  examined  for  the  government. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  Where  do  you  live  ? — Answer.  Catawba  County,  North 
Carolina. 

Q.  What  is  your  profession  ? — A.  A  lawyer. 

Q.  Have  you  a  pretty  fair  knowledge,  from  being  situated  about  the 
center  of  the  district,  of  the  o])erations  of  the  internal-revenue  laws  in 
that  counti-y  ? — A.  My  knowledge  is  not  so  extensive  probably  as  some, 
as  my  practice  in  the  l-'ederal  courts  has  not  been  very  large,  especially 
in  rcviiiuic  cases.  My  knowledge  is  mostly  confined  to  what  I  know  in 
my  <)\\  n  county.  I  haye  some  knowledge,  of  course,  of  the  district  and 
counties  around,  but  not  as  extensively  as  others. 

(^.  J)('S('ril>e,  if  you  ])Iease,  the  o])cration  of  tlie  internal-revenue  laws, 
and  the  manner  of  executing  them  in  your  county,  and  what  the  com- 
plaint :i!i<l  t't'cling  of  the  i)eoi)le  are  about  it. — A.  The  i)rincipal  com- 
plaiiil  ill  my  <;ounty  is  that  a  considerable  amount  of  revenue  is  col- 
lected ;  l»iit  the  i'Xpenses  are.  so  large  in  the;  collection  of  it  that  some 
otJHT  ^.\stem  |»robably  woidd  be  better  il"  it  were  adopted.  There  are 
other  <omplaiMls  tliat  J  ha\<'  lieard;  that  it  is  thought  that  there  is 
some  colliisioii  with  soiim'  of  the  oflicers  at  least;  that  tliedistillers  have 
rei-ei\f(l  ;i  pait  of  tli(!  wages  of  tlie  storekeei)ers.     And  it  is  done  in 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  453 

this  way,  as  I  have  heard — at  least  I  have  heard  it  allejj;ed — that  a  man 
before  he  is  assigned  to  a  distillery  makes  an  agreeinent  with  the  in- 
dividual to  whom  he  is  to  be  assigned  that  he  is  to  pay  him  so  much 
board;  that  lie  is  not  to  receive  a.  part  of  his  wages,  but  has  to  pay  hiiu 
so  much  board,  and  in  that  way  compcmsate  the  distiller  for  any  loss  he 
would  sustain  in  carrying  on  his  distillery. 

Q.  How  large  a  price  have  you  heard  paid? — A.  I  think  I  have  hear<l 
$1.50. 

Q.  A  day? — A.  It  is  something  like  that. 

(^.  $45  a  mouth! — A.  It  is  mostly  rumor — nothing  I  know  of  my 
own  observation  in  any  particular  whatever. 

Q.  You  are  testifying  as  to  the  ordinary  state  of  i)ublic  sentiment. 
What  is  the  ordinary  price  of  board  there — country  board  ? — A.  You 
can  get  very  good  board  for  $S  or  $10  a  month. 

Q.  That  would  be  four  times  at  least  the  price  that  you  have  heard 
that  the  storekeepers  pay  ? — xV.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  liquor  sells  at  in  that  county? — A.  At  retail? 

Q.  Y^es. — A.  I  do  not  know,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  it  selLs  for  at  wholesale? — A.  I  understood 
about  a  $1.10  a  gallon.     I  think  it  was;  I  am  not  certani  as  to  that. 

Q.  What  is  the  price  of  corn  this  year? — A.  To  distillers  it  is  about 
a  $1  a  bushel.  I  think  they  generally  pay  a  little  more  than  others; 
many  merchants  will  sell  corn  a  little  less  to  other  persons  than  to  dis- 
tillers. 

Q.  Did  the  revenue  ofticers  in  your  county  take  an  active  part  in 
politics"? — A.  Y"es,  sir;  I  think  they  are  considered  the  leading  politi- 
cians in  the  county. 

Q.  Is  there  not  a  prejudice  against  the  law  or  the  manner  of  execut- 
ing the  law  I — A.  I  think  there  is  no  prejudice  against  the  law.  I  think 
that  everybody  is  satisfied  that  there  is  a  tax  of  90  cents  a  gallon  on 
whisky;  and  though  they  would  be  glad  if  that  90  cents  was  applied 
to  some  other  purpose,  to  education  or  something  of  that  kind,  they 
have  no  objection  to  the  tax,  but  they  think  that  the  law  could  be  exe- 
cuted so  as  not  to  incur  such  a  large  expense;  if  some  other  law  could 
be  adopted  the^^  would  be  better  satisfied  with  it.  I  think,  so  far  as 
brandy  is  concerned,  the  people  would  be  glad  if  the  tax  was  lower,  not 
over  25  cents  a  gallon;  or  entirely  free;  but  so  far  as  whisky  is  con- 
cerned I  think  that  they  are  perfectly  satisfied  that  it  should  be  taxed. 

Q.  It  is  the  great  expense  attending  the  collection  that  they  princi- 
pally object  to? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  so. 

Q.  Has  there  been  any  violent  resistance  to  the  law  in  your  county 
that  you  know  of,  or  have  heard  of? — A.  None  that  I  know  of. 

Q.  Has  there  been  any  time  when  a  revenue  officer  was  in  danger  in 
doing  his  duty  there? — A.  I  think  not  at  any  time  in  my  recollection 
since  the  war.  So  far  as  the  revenue  ofticers  are  concerned  in  my 
county,  I  mean  the  marshals,  &c.,  I  believe  they  have  behaved  tliem- 
sehes  very  well,  with  probably  one  or  two  exceptions. 

Q.  Do  you  know  anything  of  this  case  spoken  of  here  the  other  day 
about  Mr.  Cline,  where  the  revenue  officer  shot  a  man? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I 
know  all  about  it.  Mr.  Cline  himself  was  a  client  of  mine  and  made 
application  to  me  to  have  Mr.  Gillespie  prosecuted.  The  way  in  which 
it  happened  was;  there  was  some  mistake  of  the  storekeeper,  not  re- 
porting correctly  the  time  when  he  ceased.  The  time  when  he  was  un- 
der suspension,  and  he  was  charged  probably  a  day  or  two  more  than 
was  actually  due.  There  was  some  mistake  or  other.  I  do  not  know 
who  made  the  mistake,  but  know  he  was  charged  for  being  in  arrears; 


454  COLLECTIOX    OF    IXTERXAL    REV^EXUE    IN 

and  ail  execiicion  was  sent  out  against  liini;  and  Gillesine  was  one  of 
the  deputies  that  went  to»  Mr.  Cline's  and  lie  told  liini  about  it;  and 
Cliiie  i>rotested  that  they  had  paid  everything.  Gillespie  showed  his 
execution.  He  said  there  must  be  a  mistake,  and  it  must  Int  corrected; 
and,  as  he  said,  Gillespie  then  started  up  to  the  stable  for  the  purpose 
of  lev3'ing  on  some  property,  a  horse,  or  something  of  the  kind.  A 
rather  simple  fellow  came  out  from  the  stable  to  split  some  wood.  Gil- 
lespie halted  him,  but  the  fellow  did  not  pay  much  attention  to  him,  and 
Gillespie  shot  him  in  the  arm  or  leg' — at  any  rate,  wounded  him.  Gilles- 
X)ie  was  indicted  for  it  in  our  courts,  antf  he  also  indicted  (^line  for  re- 
sisting the  oflicer.  I  think  Gillespie  submitted,  under  an  agreement,  that 
judgment  was  to  be  suspended  and  the  prosecution  stopped  at  States- 
ville,  and  all  was  amicably  settled. 

Q.  Walker  said  that  Cline  told  this  half-witted  fellow  to  attack  Gil- 
lespie?— A.  I  think  Walker  is  mistaken.  Cline  was  a  man  of  good 
character.  I  have  no  idea  he  would  do  that;  at  least  he  told  me  he  did 
not. 

Q.  There  are  not  many  distilleries  in  your  county  '? — A.  Not  many. 

Q.  You  say  you  saw  no  danger  at  any  time  to  a  revenue  ofihcer  in 
your  county  ? — A.  Ko,  sir. 

Q.  Of  course  a  well-dressed  stranger  could  ride  through  without  any 
danger  whatever  f — A.  Oh,  yes. 

Q.  Has  there  been  anything  of  this  described  by  other  witnesses  of 
buying-  up  our  young  men  by  offices,  trying  to  induce  them  to  change 
their  i^olitics,  in  your  county  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  whether  there  was  any- 
thing' of  the  kind  or  not.  I  know  of  some  young  men.  who  were  Demo- 
crats when  they  went  into  the  revenue  service,  who  seemed  to  change. 
I  do  not  know  Avhat  intlaence  was  brought  to  bear  upon  them  or  any- 
thing of  that  kind. 

Cross-examination  by  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  You  live  in  Catawba  County  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  is  situated  on  the  railroad  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  Western  Xorth 
Carolina  llailroad. 

(^.  You  have  never  had  much  illicit  distilling  in  that  county? — A. 
Very  little.  There  was,  about  1878,  some  indictments,  but  the  amnesty 
was  granted,  and  I  think  there  has  been  no  illicit  distilling  in  the 
county  since — very  little,  if  any. 

Q.  Your  county  is  in  the  mountain  region  of  country  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  DUX  you  not  hear  of  some  resistance  to  the  law  in  the  upper  sec- 
tion of  your  county  '! — A.  I  cannot  call  any  to  mind  Just  now. 

Q.  Along  on  the  edge  of  the  South  Mountains  ? — A.  That  is  not  in 
Catawba.  I  have  heard  of  some  in  the  South  Mountains,  but  know  so 
little  about  it  that  my  testimony  is  not  W(jrth  much.  1  think  there  was 
none  in  Catawba  tlr.it  I  Icnow  of. 

Q.  How  many  distiHeries  Iia\"e  you  in  your  county  ? — A.  Some  six  or 
eight. 

(}.  Do  ,\()ii  l<n()\v  tlie  men  wlio  own  and  run  them  ? — A.  I  know  some 
of  them. 

Q.  Ak-  iliey  men  of  good  character? — A.  (Jenerally  men  of  good 
<'liaraetci-. 

(}.  Are  tliey  men  who  wonhl  swear  falsely  ? — A.  1  do  not  think  they 
w(»iihl,  intentionally  ;  1  cannot  think  so. 

(}.  Do  y(»u  know  the  storekeepiirs  who  are  assigned  to  thest;  five  or 
«ix  distilleries'? — A.   I  know  most  of  them. 

(,).   Ar.'  tliev  gooi]  men  '.  —  A.   I  lliink  so. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  455 

Q.  Men  Avbo  would  swear  falsely  ? — A.  I  do  not  tliiuk  they  would,  iii- 
teutioually. 

Q.  You  say  you  have  beard  it  oLarjied  around  tlieie  that  tliey  ])aid  a 
large  amount  for  board — forty-live  dollars  ? — A.  I  bave  lieard  tbat;  yes, 
sir. 

Q.  Tbat  would  be  a  subterfuge  under  wbicb  tbey  would  divide  tbeir 
pay,  and  so  you  understood  it  ? — A.  I  do  not  know.  Tbat  is  a  matter 
of  argument.     I  bave  no  rigbt  to  make  any  inference  of  tbe  kind. 

Q.  Do  you  know  any  particular  instance  tliere  where  men  paid  forty- 
five  dollars  a  month  for  board  ? — A.  Xo,  sir ;  I  do  not  know  an  instance 
of  any  amount  they  paid. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  bear  it  charged  of  any  particular  individual? — A. 
'No,  sir;  of  no  individual. 

Q,  You  know  of  the  five  or  six  distillers  there  whom  these  rumors 
bave  been  circulated  about,  but  you  know  of  no  particular  man,  iieither 
storekeeper  nor  distiller? — A.  No,  sir;  I  have  beard  it  intimated  in  one 
case.  I  examined  the  nnin  myself  on  a  different  case.  I  beard  of  one 
storekeeper  who  was  said  to  be  in  partnership  with  a  distiller.  I  exam- 
ined tbe  man  in  court  in  a  case  where  a  man  was  indicted  for  breaking 
into  a  distillery,  and  the  bill  was  charged  as  being  tbe  property  of  the 
storekeeper.  I  thought  it  made  a  little  catch  against  tbe  man  and  he 
might  bave  a  little  interest  in  it.  I  asked  him  whether  it  was  so  or  not; 
be  denied  it.     He  was  a  man  of  character,  I  reckon,  and  told  the  truth. 

Q.  Y^ou  said  they  charged  a  dollar  a  bushel  for  corn? — A.  I  did.  ,A 
dollar  in  that  county. 

Q.  Is  not  that  on  account  of  tbe  drougbt  f — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Taking  one  year  with  another,  corn  is  not  more  than  fifty  or  sixty 
cents  a  busbel,  is  it  ? — A.  From  sixty  to  sevecty-five  cents,  probably 
from  fifty  to  seventy-five  cents. 

Q.  Do  not  you  know  that  raising  hogs  is  one  of  the  most  important 
items  at  a  distillery  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  it  is  considered  a  profitable  busi- 
ness. 

Q.  Do  you  not  think  a  man  could  run  a  small  distillery  under  ])resent 
conditions  in  this  county,  keep  hogs  and  stock  and  make  money? — A, 
Yes;  upon  that  alone  I  do  not  tbink  he  could  do  it. 

().  Upon  what  alone? — A.  From  the  slop  from  his  still.  It  would 
justifj'  a  large  distillery,  but  do  not  think  it  would  a  small  distillery. 

Q.  When  corn  is  worth  from  sixty  to  seventy-five  cents  per  bushel,  can- 
not a  man  run  adistillery  and  derive  a  legitimate  profit  by  having  stock 
there? — A.  It  depends  upon  the  price  of  spirits,  I  would  suppose — I  do 
not  know  whether  so  or  not.  I  suppose  when  corn  is  bigh  that  whisky 
would  be  higher  in  proi)ortion,  and  I  have  heard  that  the  price  of  corn 
does  not  make  any  difterence  with  the  distiller;  it  is  better  for  him  to 
run  when  corn  is  high  than  when  it  is  low,  for  then  bis  whisky  is  higli 
too. 

Q.  Suppose  whisky  is  worth  $1.40  a  galhni  and  corn  is  from  sixty  to 
seventy-five  cents  a  busbel,  would  it  not  be  profitable? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
probably  it  would;  I  bave  not  made  the  calculation;  I  do  not  know 
whether  that  is  the  wholesale  ])rice  of  whisky. 

Q.  Y"ou  know  these  five  or  six  gentlemen  who  are  distilling  in  your 
county"? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  know  them. 

Q.  Do  you  look  upon  them  as  upright,  honest  men? — A.  I  look  upon 
them  as  straightforward  men. 

Q.  Prudent  men  ?— A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  Thrifty  in  their  business  affairs  ? — A.  As  a  general  thing  I  think 
they  are. 


456  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    Iii 

Q.  Would  they  continue  to  distill  right  along-  without  there  was  a 
legitimate  profit  in  it? — A.  I  do  not  think  they  would. 

i^.  You  are  satisfied  they  would  not  swear  falsely  and  cheat  the  gov- 
ernment in  that  way  ? — A.  I  do  not  think  they  would ;  cannot  believe 
they  would. 

Q.  They  would  still  go  on  and  keep  their  stock,  run  a  still,  notwith- 
standing the  high  price  of  corn? — A.  Yes,  sir;  how  they  do  it  I  cannot 
tell. 

Q.  You  are  not  acquainted  with  distilling? — A.  ISTot  at  all,  sir. 

Q.  These  distillers  having  stock  on  hand  could  not  stop  their  stills 
without  loss? — A.  I  think  not. 

Q.  It  would  be  cheaper  to  run  even  with  the  loss  they  would  incur 
than  to  turn  their  stock  loose? — A.  I  think  it  would  be  necessary,  if 
they  had  a  large  stock  on  hand,  to  get  something  as  feed  for  them. 

Q.  You  do  not  think  it  was  unreasonable  when  corn  was  a  high  price 
for  them  to  run  when  they  had  stock  on  hand  instead  of  feeding  them 
on  solid  corn  ? — A.  With  the  additional  price  of  whiskj'  when  corn  was 
high  it  is  not  unreasonable  to  run,  because  I  understood  that  a  man 
can  easily  afford  to  run,  because  whisky  is  always  high  when  corn  is. 

Q.  When  corn  is  high,  if  they  stop  running  the  distillery  they  would 
still  have  to  buy  corn  for  their  stock  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  unless  it  was  a 
season  of  the  year  when  they  could  fatten  them  up  and  put  them  into 
the  market ;  they  might,  in  the  fall,  fatten  their  stock. 

Q.  You  say  that  ever^^body  in*  that  county  is  satislied  with  the  reve- 
nue law  on  whisky f — A.  I  think  so. 

Q.  You  do  not  think  the  people  are  in  favor  of  abolisliing  the  law  ? — 
A.  I  think  they  would  be  favorably  inclined  not  to  abolish  the  taxes 
entirely,  but  have  them  arranged  in  such  a  way  that  it  would  go  to  the 
educational  fund,  or  something  like  that. 

Q.  The  people  would  want  the  law  modified  or  amended  ? — A.  Modi- 
fied. 

Q.  Xot  abolished  ? — A.  Do  not  tliink  they  would,  so  fjir  as  whisky  is 
concerned. 

Q.  You  are  a  member  of  the  Democratic  party  ? — A.  lam,  and  have 
been  since  the  war.     I  was  a  Whig  before. 

Q.  Are  you  giving  what  you  belie\'e  to  be  the  public  sentiment  in  your 
county? — A.  So  far  as  the  abolition  of  the  revenue? 

(}.  Y'es,  sir. — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  believe. 

(}.  You  tliink  if  they  were  in  power  they  would  not  abolish,  but  only 
modify  it? — .V.  I  do  not  think  they  would. 

(}.  Judge  Avery  tlioughtdilVercntly. — A.  \Vc  think  forourselvesdown 
in  ('atawba. 

(^>.  You  say  some  young  men  in  your  county  have  become  revenue  olli- 
cers  and  changed  their  ])olitics? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(^.  How  jnany  ? — A.  1  think  that  every  man  that  goes  into  it  changes. 
Then*  was  a  man  l)y  the  name  of  I fugh  Pence;  lie  was  a  J)emocrat;  I 
tliink  he  was  first  appointed  niai'shal,  and  then  revenue  otficer;  and  1 
uiideistand  Mamud  ('line  used  to  be  a  strong  Democrat.  Now,  I  under- 
stand, he  is  a  ifepiiblican.  I  thiidc  they  generally  lean  that  way  when 
they  get  in. 

(}.  Are  tliev  no!  yoiiiig  men  o  I"  good  characlei' ? — A.  Oh,  yes;  they 
were  and  aie  now. 

(}.  Are  yon  (jiiite  snre  that  they  were  not  leaning  that  way  when  they 
WJ'iit  in.  and  that  was  the  eanse  (d' their  ap|M»inl  nient  :' — A.  Veiy  likely 
they  leant  (hat  waN'  in  ta-der  to  get  in. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  457 

By  the  Chair^ian  : 

Q.  In  order  to  get  in  the  position  ? — A.  In  order  to  get  in  the  office.. 
By  Mr.  Tool  : 

Q.  You  think  that  is  corrnpting  to  these  young  men  ? — A.  I  do  not 
know.  If  it  is  corrupt  to  be  a  llepublican,  it  would  be,  I  reckon  ;  if  to 
be  a  Eepublican  is  not  corru[)t,  it  would  not  be, 

Q.  Judge  Avery  seemed  to  think  that  it  was  corrupting  the  youug^ 
men?— A.  I  am  not  here  to  si>eak  for  Judge  Avery. 

Q.  You  are  not  able  to  say  that  you  would  judge  it  as  corrupting- 
young  men  ? — A.  I  do  not  know;  I  could  not  say. 

Q.  But  these  are  young  men  of  good  character  ? — A.  I  think  so ;  yes^ 
sir. 

Q.  And  have  the  right  to  be  independent  in  their  political  notions"? — 
A.  Oh,  yes;  of  course. 

Q.  And  to  avail  themselves  of  the  benefit  of  office  if  they  choose  to 
do  so  ? — A.  I  think  so. 

Q.  And  that  without  injury  to  their  character  and  without  any  im- 
moral or  reproachful  act  on  their  part  ? — A.  They  do  not  stand  as  high 
with  the  Democratic  party  as  they  did  before. 

Q.  Do  not  they  stand  higher  in  the  Republican  party  ? — A.  I  supiwse^ 
they  would. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  I  want  you  to  make  a  little  calculation  on  the  profits  of  distilling.. 
The  price  of  corn  averages  about  a  dollar  a  bushel  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  price  of  whisky  is  about  $1.40  a  gallon  ? — A.  I  reckon  about 
that  price. 

Q.  Now,  take  a  four-bushel  still  and  make  this  calculation :  Four 
bushels  of  corn,  we  will  say,  will  make  eight  gallons  of  whisky ;  four 
bushels  of  corn  at  a  dollar  a  bushel,  $4 ;  taxes  on  eight  gallons  of  whisky, 
at  90  cents  a  gallon,  87.20;  making  811.20;  eight  gallons  of  whisky  at 
81.40,  $11.20.    This  precisely  comes  out  even,  does  it  not? — A.  Yes,  sir.. 

Q.  And  the  distiller  loses  his  time,  his  wages,  and  wear  and  tear  of 
his  fixtures,  and  so  forth? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  but  I  have  omitted  to  state  one 
thing.  I  think  there  was  one  distiller  in  that  coiTuty  who  has  two  small 
stills.  I  am  not  certain  how  that  was.  I  think  Mr.  Hewitt  has  two 
stills.     I  have  heard  so. 

Q.  Now,  taking  the  same  still ;  and  say  it  makes  ten  gallons  of  whisky, 
having  a  superior  distiller  who  understands  his  business  and  wlio  can 
make  a  half  gallon  more  than  the  other.  Four  bushels  of  corn,  at  $1  a 
bushel,  $4 ;  taxes  on  ten  gallons,  $0 ;  making  $13  ;  ten  gallons,  at  $1.40,. 
$14,  leaving  a  profit  of  $1. —  A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  would  go  to  show  that  the  larger  the  distillery  the  more  profit 
there  would  be  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  and  then  the  advantage  of  feeding  stock, 
as  you  know.  That  is  the  reason  that  a  large  distiller  can  distill  at  a 
smaller  profit  on  the  gallon,  having  his  great  i)rofit  in  raising  hogs,  than 
the  smaller  ones. 

Q.  It  is  precisely  the  same  thing — an  eight-bushel  still  requires  the 
same  labor  as  a  four-bushel  still  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  no  more  expense  ? — A.  That  is  all,  I  think. 

Q.  If  a  man  had  an  eight-bushel  still,  and  divided  it  into  two  four- 
bushel  stills,  he  would  quit  a  business  that  was  giving  him  a  little  i)rofit 
to  establish  a  business  that  would  give  him  none  whatever? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  What  other  inducement  could  he  have  for  doing  that,  except  he  had 


458  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

some  collusion  Mitli  the  storekeeper,  or  expected  to  derive  some  benefit 
from  liavinn-  two  storekeepers,  instead  of  one  ? — A.  I  think  tliatis  the  way 
the  people  reason  about  it.  Whether  they  reason  from  false  premises 
or  not  I  do  not  know  of  my  own  knowledge. 

H.  C  Owens  sworn  and  examined  for  the  government. 
By  the  Chairman: 

Question.  Where  do  you  reside  now  ! — Answer.  In  Burke  County, 
near  jNIorganton. 

Q.  Were  you  at  one  time  in  the  service  of  the  internal  revenue  ? — A. 
I  was  employed  as  a  distiller  awhile. 

Q,  In  what  distillery  ? — A.  James  Lanier's. 

Q.  Where  is  it  situated  ? — A.  Situated  about  two  miles  from  Salisbury, 
in  Eowan  County.* 

Q,  How  long  were  you  there  in  Mr.  Lanier's  employ  ? — A.  I  was  there 
-a  short  time.     I  do  not  think  more  than  three  months  at  the  outside. 

Q.  How  did  you  come  to  leave? — A.  I  do  not  know  particularly  how 
it  was.     He  either  turned  me  oif,  or  I  quit  myself. 

Q.  What  was  the  disagreement  between  yourself  and  Mr.  Lanier? — 
He  wanted  me  to  distill  on  Sunday,  and  I  refused  to  do  it. 

Q.  Did  his  distillery  run  on  Sunday  ? — A.  It  never  did  before  that. 

Q.  Did  it,  after  you  left,  do  so  ? — A.  The  machinery  ran  that  day. 
What  they  did  afterwards  I  do  not  know.  I  will  explain  why  he  wanted 
me  to  run  on  Sunday,  if  you  will  let  me. 

Q.  Certainly. — A.  We  had  been  frozen  up  three  or  four  days.  The 
l^ipes  had  burst,  and  they  took  until  Sunday  morning 'to  get  the  pipes 
and  everything  replaced.  He  had  some  beer  on  hand,  and  he  said  if  I 
did  not  still  it  out  it  would  spoil,  and  he  wanted  me  to  still  it  out.  I  re- 
fused to  do  so.  He  said  he  had  no  further  use  for  me.  He  would  get  a 
man  who  would  do  it. 

Q.  Who  was  the  storekeeper  at  the  time  you  were  there? — A.  Allen. 
Ramsay. 

Q.  ri.  A.  Kamsay? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I).  A.  Ramsay. 

Q.  AVhat  was  the  custom  there  about  weighing  out  of  the  material, 
&c.,  an<l  mashing  ? — A.  Mr.  Ramsay  weighed  out  to  me  how  much  every 
morniug  I  needed.  He  did  not  do  it  every  morning,  but  I  will  tell  you 
why  that  was.  We  had  sacks  that  held  exactly  just  as  full  as  we  could 
tie  them,  and  they  would  not  vary  from  it  but  a  very  few  jwunds.  At 
each  time  1  would  do  my  own  grinding — I  would  grind  my  corn — I  first 
filled  nj)  the  sacks  the  same  way  every  time,  and  if  he  neglected  to  weigh 
it  I  wcmld  just  take  enough  of  them  for  the  amount  which  was  about 
right  and  go  ahead. 

Q.  Describe  the  operations  about  the  distillery  when  he  had  weighed 
out  you)-  material  for  you  in  the  morning — the  day's  work — what  did  he 
do  iho.n'. — A.  He  would  generallv  go  in  his  otilice  and  stay  there  all 
<h.y. 

().  Where  was  his  office? — A.  In  the  still-liouse. 

(,►.  What  did  he  do  with  the.  key  of  his  cisleru-room  ? — A.  He  kept  it 
ill  Ills  pocket  all  tiie  time,  uidess  occasictnally,  sometimes,  we  would  get 
it  to  go  thei-c  to  tlie  cisteiii-room.  and  tJK'n  would  take  it  right  back  and 
give  it  to  iiim. 

().  Did  lie  ever  hang  the  key  uj)  at  any  time  in  a  certain  ]>lace  when 
he  lef(  llie  distillery  ? — A.  Not  to  my  knowledge. 

i}.  How  alionl  tin^  mash,  when  he  liad  weiglie<l  out  the  allowance  for 
the  day  :  was  tliere  any  more  jmt  in  by  Mr.  lianier  or  anybody  else  t — 
A.  No,  sir ;   ne\cr  was. 


THE    8IXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  459 

Q.  Did  Mr.  Lanier  order,  or  even  intimate  to  you,  to  put  more  meal 
in  the  mash  i — A.  Ko,  sir;  never  did. 

Q.  Have  you  any  reason  for  believing'  tliat  all  the  whisky  that  was 
made  there  was  accounted  for  and  tax  paid  t — A.  I  could  not  say :  I 
suppose  it  was.     I  cannot  say  it  was  or  not. 

Q.  It  was  not  always  under  your  sight,  was  it? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  What  became  of  it  after  running  out  of  the  still  into  the  cistern - 
room  or  receiving  tubs? — xV.  Ramsey  used  to  draw  it  off,  and  roll  the 
barrels  over  to  the  warehouse;  the  warehouse  was  fifteen  or  twenty 
steps  from  the  cistern-room. 

Q.  And  you  know  nothing  of  extra  meal  being  piit  into  the  mash  ? — 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Could  it  have  been  done  without  your  knowledge? — A.  No,  sir;  I 
do  not  think  it  could,  for  I  was  generally  in  the  distillery  until  quitting 
time  at  night. 

Q.  Was  the  storekeeper  there  all  the  time? — A.  Yes,  sir;  he  would 
stay  there  from  early  morning  till  about  through  work  at  night. 

Q.  Was  there  any  other  storekeeper  there  l)ut  Eamsey  while  you  were 
distiller? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  He  was  the  oidy  one? — A.  The  only  one. 

Q.  You  saw  no  evidence,  while  you  were  there  as  distiller,  of  any 
double  mash ;  or  any  material  being  used  that  was  not  accounted  for  to 
the  storekeeper;  or  any  whisky  being  surreptitiously  removed  from  the 
distillery;  or  the  key  given  into  Mr.  Lanier's  hands? — A.  If  ]Mr.  Lanier 
had  the  key  I  did  not  know  anything  of  it. 

O.  L.  Cook,  M.  D.,  sworn  and  examined  for  the  government. 
By  the  Chairman  : 

Question.  Where  is  your  residence? — Answer.  Wilkes  County,  X.  C. 

Q.  How  far  from  the  county  seat? — A.  Eighteen  miles,  east. 

Q.  Yon  are  a  physician  by  profession  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Were  yon  at  one  time  connected  with  the  internal-revenue  service 
of  the  sixth  district  of  North  Carolina? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  capacity  ? — A.  Storekeeper  and  gauger. 

Q.  What  time  did  yon  enter  the  service? — A.  I  entered  first  in  Sep- 
tember, 1875. 

Q.  As  storekeeper  and  gauger? — A,  As  storekeeper  alone. 

Q.  The  two  offices  were  not  combined  then? — A.  Xo,  sir;  were  not 
consolidated  until  afterwards. 

Q.  Where  were  yc^u  first  assigned  ? — A.  To  John  W.  Long,  in  Alex- 
ander County. 

Q.  How  long  did  you  stay  there  ? — A.  Two  months ;  the  storekeep- 
ers were  changed  every  sixty  days. 

By  Mr.  Pool: 
Q.  What  time  were  you  at  Long's? — A.  The  months  of  September 
and  November,  1875. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Where  did  you  go  from  there  ? — A.  I  went  to  Smith's. 

Q.  Which  Smith's?— A.  Theophilus  Smith. 

Q.  Where  is  that? — A.  In  Iredell  County,  twelv^e  miles  west  of  States- 
ville. 

Q.  How  long  did  you  stay  there  ? — A.  Two  months. 

Q.  And  you  were  then  changed  again? — A.  Yes,  sir;  from  there  to 
Gaston. 


460  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    EEVENUE    IN 

Q.  To  whose  distillery'? — A.  L.  L.  Sugg-g's. 

Q.  How  long  did  you  stay  there? — A.  Two  months. 

Q.  And  then  wher^  did  you  go? — A.  To  Catawba,  to  Elijah  Cline's 
distillery. 

(^.  How  long  did  you  stay  there? — A.  Two  mouths. 

Q.  Aud  tbeu  where  were  you  transferred  to? — A.  To  Wilkes,  to 
Combs's  distillery, 

Q.  How  long  did  you  stay  there? — A.  Two  months. 

Q.  And  then  where? — A.  I  went  back  to  Cline's. 

Q.  In  Catawba? — A.  In  Catawba. 

Q.  What  became  of  you  then? — A.  I  went  back  to  Combs's  at  the 
expiration  of  sixty  days. 

Q.  That  brings  up  the  subject  of  Combs.  The  second  time  you  went 
there  what  time  was  it,  in  1870? — A.  I  do  not  think  I  can  answer  now 
the  year. 

Q.  It  brings  you  up  to  the  fall  of  1876? — A.  I  reckon  it  was. 

Q.  When  did  you  cease  to  be  transferred  on  this  two  months'  sys- 
tem"?— A.  I  thiidv  it  was  in  March,  1877 — that  President  Hayes  came  in, 
or  about  the  time  he  came  in.  I  have  forgotten  whether  1877  or  1878 
now  5  but  it  was  the  election  in  1870.  The  consolidation  took  place  and 
took  elfect — I  do  not  know  whether  it  was  everywhere — on  the  1st  of 
March  in  the  sixth  district. 

Q.  At  any  of  these  places  you  have  mentioned  were  any  propositions 
made  to  you  to  divide  i)ay  with  the  distiller  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  ]Srone  at  all!  What  did  you  pay  for  board? — A.  I  paid  from  five 
to  ten  dollars  a  month. 

Q.  Hid  you  board  with  the  distillers? — A.  Yes,  sir;  boarded  with  the 
distillers. 

Q.  Your  board  ranged  from  five  to  ten  dollars  a  month  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
Xow,  at  Suggs's  I  had  my  horse.  Most  of  those  times  I  had  no  horse. 
At  Suggs's  I  paid  $15  a  month,  and  he  charged  me  $10  a  month  for 
myself  aud  $5  a  month  for  my  horse, 

Q.  Had  there  come  to  you  any  information  concerning  this  alleged 
practice  of  dividing  between  storekeepers  and  distillers  .' — A.  I  have 
heard  of  such  things  being  done — heard  the  rumor;  I  did  not  know,  of 
my  own  knowledge,  of  anything  of  the  kind. 

(}.  Did  you  ever  Innir  any  distiller  say  that  he  had  done  it  ? — A.  ISTo, 
sir, 

Q,  From  Combs's  where  did  you  next  keep  store  ? — A,  In  the  next 
place  at  W.  I>.  Siegrest's. 

Q.  Hid  you  make  any  representation  at  any  time  to  Collector  Mott 
on  this  sul)ject  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(j).  When? — A.  AVe  talked  about  it  several  times  in  the  last  four 
years,  during  the  time  I  was  hearing  these  rumors,  that  the  storekeeixas 
w(  r(!  di\'iding  their  wages,  and  1  knew  if  it  were  going  on  it  wouhl  ul- 
timately drive  me  out  of  the  ser\i(;t^ ;  ami  therefore  1  felt  interested  in 
the  miilt<'r  and  look  occasion  to  tallv  to  him  and  told  him  what  1  had 
heai'd  a))out  it. 

(}.  I)id  you  tell  him  wliereabouts  the  runu)rs  were  located — who  it 
was  said  were  doing  this? — A,  Of  course  I  could  not  do  otherwise. 
The  rumors  wcic;  located  when;  1  was  located — doing  business  on 
Hunting  ('leek,  in  \\  ilkes  County;  some  four  or  five  or  six  distilleries 
near  tlieic, 

(^.  >.'anM' tli(»se  distilleries,  will  you? — A.  Nearest  Wilkesborough  is 
Porter's:   then  coming  on  down,  William  Sanders's;  and  m?xt  is  Ander- 

I 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  461 

soil's  ;  then  Bell's,  J,  W.  Combs's,  J.  II.  Combs's,  W.  H.  Somers's,  J.  W. 
Lniisford's,  and  then  Cooper's. 

Q.  Which  C()0])er  ? — A.  William  Cooper,  further  down  tlie  creek. 

Q.  WJiat  distilleries  did  you  intimate  to  liim  in  that  conversation 
that  thing-  was  done  at  ? — A.  I  do  not  remember  that  I  designated  or 
singled  out  any  distilleries  at  all  to  him.  I  do  not  think  I  did ;  if  I 
did  I  do  not  reinend)or,  but  merely  told  him  of  the  common  talk,  rumor, 
and  general  oi)inion,  I  did  it  for  the  purpose  of  getting  him  to  move 
in  the  matter,  and  try  to  stop  it  if  it  did  exist.  I  do  not  know  of  the 
fact  that  it  did  exist. 

Q.  Was  there  any  investigation  made  into  it  ? — A.  Xone  that  I  know 
of. 

Q.  Xo  move  was  made  as  you  desired  to  be  done? — A.  Xo,  sir;  none. 
If  there  had  been  I  should  have  known  it. 

Q.  Did  you  at  any  time  have  any  conversation  with  Sanders  in  rela- 
tion to  that  subject? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  With  Anderson? — A.  No,  sir;  yes;  I  and  Anderson  talked  the 
matter  over  a  little.     I  staid  at  Anderson's  two  years. 

Q.  Did  others  of  these  distillers  that  you  have  mentioned  say  that 
they  had  been  getting  storekeepers  for  a  dollar  and  a  half  a  day;  and 
wanted  you  to  conform  to  the  same  thing? — A.  I  think  not;  I  do  not 
remember  that  any  asked  me  to  do  that.  No,  sir;  for  I  am  very  cer- 
tain they  did  not,  as  I  would  have  taken  it  as  an  insult,  and  resented 
it.  It  never  was  done  but  once  and  that  was  in  Catawba,  in  the  last 
distillery  where  I  storekept. 

Q.  That  was  when  they  assigned  von  in  Catawba  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  By  whom?— A.  By  Mr.  Hedrick. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Were  you  assigned  to  Mr.  Headrick's? — A.  Yes,  sir;  the  last  of 
March  a  year  ago.  I  staid  there  during  the  months  of  March,  April, 
and  part  of  May.  They  suspended  in  May.  It  was  run  in  the  young 
man's  name,  and  the  young-  man  ran  the  distillery.  The  old  man,  I  dis- 
covered while  I  was  there,  got  the  benefit  of  the  slop,  and  I  think  that 
was  the  remuneration  he  received  for  assisting  his  son  in  running  the 
distillery.  The  young  man  started  a  little  too  soon,  before  the  collector 
had  assigned  him  a  storekeeper;  and  the  special  force  heard  of  it,  and 
went  and  seized  him.  I  was  out  of  employment,  and  I  was  assigned 
there  to  start  him  up.  I  went  and  staid  there  a  month,  boarding  with 
the  old  man.  His  son,  the  distiller,  was  a  young  man,  had  no  family, 
and  lived  with  his  father.  I  staid  there  a  month  before  I  said  anything 
about  board.  I  could  have  made  very  easy  terms  about  it  in  the  begin- 
ning, as  they  were  scared ;  as  the  old  man  acknowledged  afterwards, 
if  I  had  said  anything  at  the  start.  At  the  expiration  of  the  first  month 
I  told  him  my  custom  was  to  settle  my  board  bills  at  the  end  of  the 
month.  I  wanted  to  know  what  it  was,  and  I  would  settle  it.  He 
wanted  to  know  what  I  had  been  payiug  at  the  other  distilleries. 

Q.  That  was  the  old  man  ? — A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  and  his  son  had  no  talk 
on  the  subject  that  I  remember.  He  then  went  on  to  state  that  several 
men  had  offered  this,  that,  and  the  other,  and  he  said  one  had  offered 
him  $70  a  month. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  A  storekeeper? — A.  If  he  would  employ  them;  some  of  them  were 

storekeepers  and  others  were  not.     They  were  applicants  who  had  not 

got  in.     I  told  him  in  conversation  that  1  was  not  a  trading  man  of  that 

kind,  and  I  did  not  propose  to  do  anything  of  the  sort.     I  got  a  little 


462  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

mad.  I  think  I  said  some  rough  things  to  him.  I  plainly  told  hiui  to 
tell  me  what  was  my  bill,  and  1  Mould  i)ay  it.  I  saw  he  acted  on  the 
principle  of  every  man  doing-  the  best  he  could  for  himself.  He  said,  yes. 
Says  I,  '•  Let  me  know  what  it  is,  and  1  will  hunt  board  somewhere  else.'^ 
He  said  he  could  not  take  less  than  a  dollar  a  day.  In  the  mean  time 
I  had  storekept  thirty  days,  and  that  was  $30  board.  1  then  Avent  to 
a  neighbor's;  paid  $8  a  month  for  the  rest  of  the  time  I  was  there. 

Q.  What  did  you  get  board  there  for  ? — A.  Eight  dollars  a  mouth  at 
Stine's. 

Q.  Was  the  board  as  good  as  you  got  at  the  distillers'? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
very  good  board;  that  is  the  only  time  I  was  storekeeping  when  any 
man  asked  me  more  than  the  ordinary  price  for  board. 

Q.  You  have  already  said,  1  believe,  that  none  of  these  other  dis- 
tillers ever  said  to  you  in  conversation  what  they  could  get  storekeepers 
for  ? — A.  Xever  have. 

Q.  1)0  you  know  anything  about  the  case  of  a  distiller  by  the  name 
of  Sebastian,  in  Wilkes  County  ? — A.  Not  of  my  own  knowledge.  There 
is  a  storekeeper,  I  understand,  by  the  name  of  Sebastian  in  Wilkes 
County,  but  as  to  the  case  I  know  nothing  except  what  rumor  says. 

Q.  Sebastian  was  a  storekeeper.  Did  you  know  the  distiller  to  whom 
he  was  assigned  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  It  is  reported  that  Sebastian  owned  the  distillery  at  which  he  was 
storekeeper,  and  that  the  distiller  was  a  man  of  straw  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  far  is  he  located  from  you? — A.  From  where  I  am  now 
living  ? 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  I  moved  this  spring  to  AVilkes ;  I  formerly  lived  in 
Alexander ;  from  where  I  lived  it  was  a  mile  and  a  half.  It  is  about 
twelve  miles  from  where  I  am  now  living. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  the  distillery  where  Sebastian  was  store- 
keeper at  is  in  operation  now  ? — A.  I  think  not,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  Sebastian  is  still  a  storekeeper  now  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir ;  the  report  is  that  he  is  still  storekeeping  there. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  At  that  still  ? — A.  That  is  the  report ;  I  do  not  state  that  for  the 
truth ;  I  am  only  speaking  rumor. 

Q.  I  understood  him  that  the  still  is  not  running  ? — A.  Y'es,  sir ;  it 
is  not  running ;  but  nnder  the  regulations,  where  there  are  over  two 
thousand  gallons  of  whisky  in  a  warehouse,  the  owner  is  entitled  to  a 
storekeeper  to  keep  charge  of  it. 

(^.  A  general  storekeeper  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  a  storekeeper. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Was  tlu're  much  talk  about  Sebastian  ? — A.  I  have  heard  but  little 
talk  altout  him.  I  have  not  been  in  the  county  until  since  spring;  just 
moved  there,  and  have  not  heard  a  great  deal  said  about  him. 

(,).  Vou  just  heard  the  report  is  that  he  was  storekeei)er  at  his  own 
distillery,  ;nid  know  it  only  as  a  rumor? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  is  the  report. 

(^.  \ou  «lo  not  know  who  the  man  was  in  whose  name  the  distillery 
was  run  ? — A.  1  heaid ;  I  did  not  i)ay  luucli  attention  and  have  forgotten. 

i).  Who  in  that  section  could  ])robably  give  information  to  the  com- 
mittee about  it  ? — A.  1  su])i)ose  you  can  learn  it  by  going  to  the  records 
and  seeing  where  Sebastian  Mas  storekeeping  ;  in  that  May  you  can  tind 
out  who  the  distiller  is. 

(^.  I  meant  mIm)  <-an  give  iiiloiiiiat ion  about  the  fact? — A.  Who  can 
give  the  inronnution  .' 


\  THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  4&3 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  The  first  one  that  ever  tohl  me  was  Squire  Ambrose 
Wiles. 

Q.  Where  does  he  live ;  in  that  neighborhood  ? — A.  In  Wilkes,  on 
Mulberry. 

Q.  How  did  you  finally  get  out  of  the  employ  of  the  government  ? — 
A.  I  resigned.  I  sent  up  my  resignation  last  October,  to  take  effect 
only  after  November. 

Q.  Why  did  you  resign  ? — A.  Simply  because  1  could  not  get  work 
to  do. 

Q.  Do  you  know  any  reason  why  you  were  not  given  work  to  do  '? — 
A.  I  think  it  was  in  consequence  of  the  division  of  wages  with  the  dis- 
tillers. That  is  what  I  thouglit  at  the  time,  and  think  so  yet.  Every 
man  could  do  better  by  the  distillers  than  I  could  afford  to — could  pay 
them  more  for  board  ;  that  is  what  I  thought. 

Q.  Do  you  know  any  facts  that  confirm  that  opinion,  that  you  base 
it  upon?  Has  any  man  suspended  to  get  rid  of  you? — A.  I  do  not 
know  of  any  suspended  for  the  puri)ose  of  getting  rid  of  me.  Mr, 
Anderson's  was  the  only  distillery  that  suspended  while  I  was  store- 
keeper. 

Q.  AVhat  was  his  excuse  for  suspending? — A.  His  nephew  was  going 
out  of  the  business.  Anderson  is  an  illiterate  man,  and  had  his  nephew 
as  partner,  but  his  nephew  was  going  out  of  the  business,  and  he  could, 
not  run  the  business  himself. 

Q.  But  did  he  start  up  afterwards  again? — A.  Yes,  sir;  in  three 
months  afterwards,  I  think. 

Q.  Who  was  assigned  to  him  as  storekeeper  ? — A.  B.  F.  Tedder. 

Q.  Were  you  then  without  employment? — ^A.  No;  I  reckon  I  was  out 
at  Hedrick's  at  that  time. 

Q.  How  long  did  you  hold  your  commission  and  was  unable  to  get 
employment? — A.  I  had  no  employment  after  December,  1880,  except 
two  months  and  a  piece  of  the  month  of  May.  I  do  not  recollect. 
Hedrick's  distillery  suspended  in  the  month  of  May.  I  was  there  from 
March  to  May,  until  it  suspended.  That  was  all  the  work  I  had  to  do 
from  December,  1880,  until  I  resigned. 

Q.  In  October,  1881?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Why  did  you  suppose  that  you  were  not  given  work;  were  there 
opportunities  at  distilleries  starting  where  you  could  be  assigned  to? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  there  were  distilleries  starting  that  I  could  be  assigned  to. 
There  were  others  without  work  like  myself,  so  far  as  that  is  concerned. 

Q.  Did  you  apply  for  assignment? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  wrote  to  Collector 
Mott  six  weeks  before  Mr.  Anderson  suspended.  Anderson  informed 
me  very  soon  after  the  election  in  November  that  he  was  going  to  sus- 
pend in  the  latter  part  of  December.  Mr.  Anderson  was  a  very  strong- 
Democrat,  and  I  was  as  strong  a  Republican  as  he  was  a  Democrat,  and 
there  may  have  gotten  up  a  little  feeling  during  the  campaign  between 
us.  We  both  smothered  it,  and  had  no  words.  Very  soon  after  the 
election  he  notified  me  he  was  going  to  suspend,  and  I  wrote  to  Dr. 
Mott  about  it,  informing  him  of  the  fact  and  asking  him  to  fix  an  assign- 
ment for  me  on  or  about  the  1st  of  January  following. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  keep  store  for  Mr.  Cooper? — A.  No,  sir;  I  never 
kept  store  for  him. 

Q.  He  was  in  Iredell  County? — A.  No,  sir;  in  Wilkes,  near  Iredell. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  have  any  conversation  with  him  on  the  subject? — 
A.  Never. 

Q.  How  far  was  his  distillery  from  the  nearest  point  to  which  you 
were  assigned? — A.  About  7  or  8  miles. 


46 -i  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Is  there  auy  other  report  that  you  could  inform  the  coiniuittee,  or 
anything  improper  in  the  conduct  of  the  officers  of  the  internal  revenue 
or  the  distillers? — A.  Xot  that  I  know  of. 

Q.  You  have  now  given  us  all  the  information  on  the  subject  that  you 
Lave? — A.  I  think  so,  sir. 

Cross-examination  by  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  I  have  marked  eight  dittereut  assignments  you  had  while  you 
were  in  ? — A.  I  do  not  remember  the  number. 

Q.  Commencing  in  1875,  were  you  kept  pretty  steadily  on  assignment 
from  the  time  you  went  in  at  Long's  up  to  the  time  Anderson  stopped  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  do  not  think  1  lost  more  than  two  months'  time. 

Q.  That  was  about  six  years  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  So  for  about  six  years  you  were  kept  pretty  steadily  assigned 
nearly  all  the  time,  and  did  not  hardly  lose  any  time  at  all? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  After  Mr.  Anderson  suspended  you  had  an  assignment  over  to 
Mr.  Hedrick's? — A.  Yes,  sir;  two  months  and  piece. 

Q.  That  was  in  1881  ?— A.  In  1881. 

Q.  Youhada  gap,  then,  from  the  Istof  January,  1881,  toMarch,  1881? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Then  that  was  about  two  months  you  lost  in  \the  six  years? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  including  that  gap  from  the  1st  of  January,  1881,  to  March, 
1881.  My  answer  is  I  had  been  regularly  employed.  I  do  not  include 
that  time  that  I  had  lost — about  two  months'  time  only  besides  that. 

Q.  That  would  be  about  four  months  out  of  the  six  years  ? — A.  I  sup- 
pose about  four  months. 

Q.  Y'ou  had  got  an  assignment  of  two  and  a  half  montlis  at  JMr.  Hed- 
rick's ? — A.  Something  like  that. 

Q.  That  brought  you  to  the  middle  of  May — along  in  May  ? — A.  I 
think  it  was  about  the  17th  of  the  month  they  suspended. 

Q.  From  the  17th  of  May  to  the  1st  of  October  you  had  no  assign- 
ment at  all  ? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  resigned  ? — A.  I  resigned. 

Q.  AVere  there  not  a  good  many  storekeepers  out  of  employment 
during  these  six  years  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  know  of  any  one  more  steadily  on  an  assignment  ? — A. 
I  do  not  know  whether  I  did  or  not. 

Q.  Do  you  know  any  one  who  lost  any  less  time  than  you  out  of 
the  whole  six  years  ?— I  do  not  know  of  any. 

Q.  You  would  not  charge  that  you  were  treated  unjustly  in  that  re- 
spect?— A.  Yes,  sir ;  I  do  that  simi)ly  because  when  I  first  accepted 
the  ai)i)ointment — Dr.  Mott  got  me  appointed  twice  before  I  accepted 
it  at  all.  The  hrst  ai>i>ointment  I  di(l  not  acce])t;  I  accepted  the  sec- 
ond appointment  upon  the  condition  1  was  to  have  regular  work 
to  <lo;  1  told  the<loctor  that  I  had  an  honorable  profession  which  would 
luiabh^  jnc  g<ita  sni)port  for  my  family,  and  unless  I  could  get  steady 
WiH'k  I  could  n<»t  accept,  and  until  tlie  1st  of  January,  1881,  he  gave 
me  work  to  do  except  one  assignment.  He  made  one  assignment,  but 
the  distiller  did  not  start  uj),  and  I  lost  a  little  more  than  a  nu)nth. 

(,>.  That  was  not  the  doctor's  fault?— A.  No,  sir. 

(}.  So  for  about  six  years  did  he  not  keep  you  steadily  employed?  — 
A.   I  tiioMght  he  oMght  still  to  have  done  it. 

(}.  How  long  d<»  you  t  liiiilc  or  consider  lie  ought  to  have  done  it  ? — 
A.  As  long  as  there  was  a  dislilh'ry  running  in  his  district. 

(}.  As  soon  as  you  did  not  get  regular  w<»rk  yon  thought  better  to  re- 
sign and  go  back  to  your  jMolession  .' — .V.   I  had  it  to  do. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  465. 

Q.  You  staid  at  Anderson's  liow  long? — A.  About  two  years. 

Q.  Anderson  never  made  any  corrupt  proposition  to  you? — A.  No, 
sir. 

Q.  You  do  not  think  Anderson  suspended  because  you  would  not  di- 
vide with  him  ? — A.  1  do  not  know  about  that;  he  never  mentioned  any 
thing  of  that  sort  to  me. 

Q.  You  were  not  sent  to  Anderson's  when  he  resumed  ? — A.  I  was  at 
Mr.  Iledrick's.  I  think  Mr.  An<lerson  started — 1st  of  May  I  was  at  Mr. 
Hed  rick's. 

Q.  Anderson  was  a  very  hot  Democrat? — A.  Yes,  sir;  ])retty  strong. 

Q.  Are  you  not  a  red-hot  Kepublican  ? — A.  I  reckon  so,  sir. 

Q.  Was  he  a  man  about  your  age  ? — A.  Younger  than  I  am,  sir. 

Q.  You  entered  into  the  canvass  and  made  speeches  around  ? — A.  I 
canvassed  about  a  week;  that  was  all  in  the  last  canvass. 

(}.  And  you  canvassed  with  all  the  earnestness  which  you  felt? — A. 
Always  do  that,  when  1  go  into  anything,  with  my  whole  heart. 

Q.  ])id  you  not  feel  and  talk  very  hot  on  the  stump  ? — A.  Yes. 

Q.  You  said  about  the  Democrats  what  you  believed  of  them"? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  believed  of  them  rather  badly? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  some  difficulty  arose  between  you  and  Mr.  Anderson? — A. 
No  difficulty. 

Q.  1  mean  unpleasantness? — A.  There  was  a  little  unpleasantness. 

C^.  And  shortly  after  the  election  he  notified  you  ? — A.  Soon  after  the 
election. 

(i.  He  gave  you  good  reasons — about  his  nephew  going  away? — A. 
His  nephew  going  away. 

Q.  You  have  no  idea  that  he  suspended  because  you  would  not  divide 
pay  with  him,  have  you  ? — A.  I  do  not  know  as  I  can  answer  that  ques^tion. 
I  do  not  know  how  that  matter  was.  I  know  he  never  mentioned  it  to 
me. 

Q.  You  spoke  of  Mr.  Sebastian  being  owner  of  the  still,  as  you  heard 
the  report? — A.  I  spoke  of  it  only  as  a  report. 

Q.  State  what  the  rule  was. — A.  The  rule  was  this,  that  where  a  man 
had  two  thousand  gallons  of  whisky  in  his  warehouse  for  a  reasonable 
length  of  time  he  should  have  a  storekeeper,  or  if  he  did  not  tax-pay  it 
or  start  up  again  the  storekeei^er  was  to  be  removed.  I  know  that  w^as 
done  in  Wilkes.  While  I  lived  in  Alexander  it  was  my  understanding': 
it  was  done  there. 

Q.  Do  you  know  that  that  matter  of  Sebastian's  has  been  fully  investi- 
gated ? — A.  I  went  away  to  Wiles's  and  staid  at  night  with  him.  About 
two  months  ago  there  was  a  man  owing  me  a  debt  in  his  neighborhood, 
and  I  went  over  there  to  see  him,  and  that  w^as  a  very  good  place  to 
stay.  He  is  a  special  friend,  a  good  Republican;  so  I  staid  all  night 
with  him.     I  never  would  have  heard  of  that  except  from  him. 

Q.  From  i\[r.  Wiles?— A.  Mr.  Wiles. 

Q.  He  told  you  that  Sebastian  was  owner  of  the  still  to  which  he  was 
storekeeper  ? — A.  That  was  the  rumor. 

Q.  Did  you  inform  Dr.  Mott? — A.  Xo,  sir. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  upon  what  information  that  matter  was  investi- 
gated by  the  collector? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Who  is  the  deputy  collector  of  that  division? — A.  Capt.  John 
Peden. 

Q.  Is  he  a  man  of  high  character  ? — A.  \"es,  sir. 

Q.  An  efficient  officer  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
S.  Mis.  IIG 30 


.4'J6  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Q.  Would  be  allow  aiiytbiug  of  that  sort  if  lie  knew  of  it  ? — A.  I  do 
not  think  lie  would  knowingly. 

Q.  Would  be  not  investigate  tbis  as  soon  as  it  came  to  bis  knowledge, 
judging  from  bis  ebaracter  f — A.  I  tbiidc  so,  from  bis  cbaracter. 

Q.  J)o  not  you  know  tbe  fact  tbat  it  bas  been  investigated  and 
turned  out  to  be  untrue? — A.  No,  sir;  never  bave  beard  that.  Wbat  I 
beard  was  told  me  by  Ambrose  "NViles. 

Q.  You  say  you  informed  Dr.  Mott  in  regard  to  tbe  wbole  batcb — 
Porters,  Sanders,  Andersons,  Combs,  and  another  Combs? — A.  Sena- 
tor Vance  asked  me  tbe  question  how  many  were  running. 

Q.  Did  the  rumor  apjjly  to  them  all  ? — A.  About  dividing  their 
wages  ? 

Q.  Yes,  sir. — A.  No,  sir;  I  did  not  intend  to  answer  tbe  question  in 
tbat  way. 

By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  I  asked  you  if  you  informed  Dr.  INIott  of  tbe  localities  where  these 
rumors  were  located,  and  in  answer  to  that  you  mentioned  the  whole 
batch,  but  did  not  cite  any  i)articular  ones. — A.  And  I  bave  heard 
nothing  furtlier  than  these  distillers  were  concerned;  in  fact,  I  know  of 
my  own  knowledge  nothing  of  the  sort,  except  with  some  of  them  at 
least  both  ofiticers  and  distillers  have  told  me  so. 

By  Mr.  Pool  : 

Q.  Which  ones  the  rumor  applied  to  ? — A.  It  applied  to  Sanders  and 
J.  W.  Combs  ;  I  believe  they  were  all. 

Q.  But  two  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  mean  it  was  just  aHoating  rumor  in  that  neighborhood  '? — A. 
It  was  not  a  floating  rumor  so  far  as  Sanders  was  concerned  the  store- 
keeper assigned  there  told  me  he  exacted  too  much  board  of  him. 

Q.  Did  be  state  how  much? — A.  I  think  a  dollar  a  day;  I  think  tbe 
other*  stated  two  dollars  a  day. 

Q.  Tbe  other  storekeeper  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  AVbo  was  be  i—A.  Mr.  Johnson. 

Q.  Wiio  was  the  first  one  ? — A.  J.  A.  Summers. 

Q.  And  you  rei)orted  tbat  to  Dr.  Mott  ? — A.  I  did  not.  I  told  them, 
when  they  infcn-med  me,  to  report  it  to  Dr.  Mott  or  to  the  ofllce,  and 
Summers  told  me  he  did;  but  be  wrote  to  a  clerk  in  the  office,  and  it 
might  never  liave  got  to  the  doctor's  ears ;  be  wrote  to  Mr.  Brown. 

(i^.  ]\Ir.  Jirown  was  a  clerk  in  the  office  ? — A.  A  deputy. 

Q.  AN'bcn  was  that  f — A.  Those  gentlemen  told  me  about  this  since  I 
went  out  of  office. 

Q.  Since  last  October? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  J  low  long  ago  ? — A.  It  was  in  tbe  winter  or  si)ring. 

Q.  This  last  s])ring? — A.  I  think  so;  this  last  winter  or  spring. 

(}.  You  say  you  did  not  report  it  to  Dr.  Mott? — A.  No,  sir ;  Iliad 
gone  out  <)i'offi(;e  then. 

Q.  1  understood  in  your  former  testimony  you  said  you  did  report 
it? — A.  No,  sir;  1  i'ei)orted  the  iiimors ;  1  nevei'  made  any  special  re- 
]»ort  of  any  paiticular  case.  Just  tb<!  rumors  and  tliose  two  cases  1 
spoke  of  were  i'ei)orted  to  me  alter  i  liad  resigned,  and  1  just  told  the 
sl<»rekeeper  to  ii'|»()il  it  to  tlie  offiri',  and  Summers  toUl  me  aftei'wards 
that  he  bad.     He  had  \\iitlen  to  Mr.  I>r<>wn. 

(}.  Tltiit  be  was  charging  too  much  l)oard  '. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

(}.  Do  \»>M  know  tbe  locality  wiiere  ( 'ombs's  and  Sand<'rs\s  distilleries 
are  situated  ?— A.   Do  1  ! 

<).   \i's,  sir. — A.    \'es,  sir. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  4G7 

Q.  Was  there  auy  other  i)hice  there  where  the  storekeepers  could 
have  boarded  '? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  gotten  good  board  ? — A,  Gotten  good  board. 

Q.  Why  did  the  storekeeper  coniphiin  to  you  that  he  was  charged  too 
much  at  Conibs's.  Why  did  he  not  go  somewhere  else  to  board  ? — A. 
For  tliis  reason :  this  exaction  has  been  made  by  the  distiUers,  and  if 
thej'  do  not  give  it  they  would  suspend.  They  are  left  the  alternative 
either  of  giving  or  going  out  of  emi)loyment. 

Q.  Could  Dr.  Mott  prevent  them  from  suspending  if  they  wanted 
to? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  So  he  could  have  no  control  over  it  ? — A.  He  could  have  control 
over  that  matter,  I  supi)Ose.  I  reckon  Dr.  Mott  did  stop  one  man  from 
suspending — J.  E.  Combs — in  a  way  that  satisfied  the  storekeeper. 

Q.  Stopped  him  from  suspending  f — A.  I  reckon  he  did  do  it,  from  the 
message  sent  to  him. 

Q.  What  was  the  character  of  the  message  ? — A.  J.  R.  Henderson  in- 
formed me  that  Combs  wanted  half  his  wages,  and  he  was  refusing  to 
give  it.  He  reported  tiie  ease  to  the  office,  and  Dr.  Mott  sent  word  to 
Combs  if  he  suspended  under  Henderson,  unless  Henderson  got  drunk 
or  grossly  neglected  his  business  in  some  way,  that  his  damned  distil- 
lery might  dry  up,  and  there  has  been  no  talk  of  suspending  since. 

Q.  Dr.  Mott  could  not  prevent  a  distiller  from  suspending  if  he  chose 
to  suspend  ? — A.  Of  course  not. 

Q.  And  could  not  prevent  him  from  starting  again  after  complying 
with  the  law  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  So  that  he  had  no  power,  really,  over  it  ? — A.  No  power. 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  Mr.  Henderson  toid  you  that?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Mr.  Summers  told  you  he  paid  a  dollar  a  day  to  him  ? — A.  To  San- 
ders. 

Q.  And  Johnson  paid  two  dollars  a  day  ? — A.  No,  sir ;  did  not  pay  it; 
Johnson  would  not  pay  it,  and  Sanders  suspended.  Sanders  demanded 
of  him  two  dollars,  and  Johnson  would  not  pay,  and  he  suspended. 

Q.  Did  Johnson  tell  you  anything  more  than  that;  did  Sanders  claim 
that  every  storekeeper  had  done  so  by  him,  and  that  he  must  do  it? — 
A.  Oh,  yes;  Sanders  told  him  he  could  get  them,  and  would  not  run 
under  him  unless  he  would  give  it. 

Q.  You  say  when  you  first  started  out  they  changed  the  storekeei)ers 
every  sixty  days.  Do  you  not  know  that  was  done  by  order  of  the  de- 
partment here,  for  the  purpose  of  preventing  colhisiou  between  store- 
keepers and  distilleries  ? — A.  My  understanding  was  it  was  done  bj' the 
supervisor 

Q.  You  are  correct.  The  report  is  here  on  file,  to  break  up  this  very 
evil. — A.  To  i)revent  it ;  it  did  not  exist  then. 

Q.  Do  you  know  why  they  ceased  to  change  them? — A.  I  do  not.  The 
office  of  supervisor  was  abolished,  and  I  think  that  matter  was  left  to 
the  collectors. 

Q.  And  they  did  not  renew  the  order? — A.  They  did  not  renew  the 
order;  that  was  my  understanding. 

Q.  You  did  not  know  why  they  did  not  renew? — A.  I  did  not  know 
why. 

Q.  I  want  to  ask  you  a  question,  which  I  forgot  in  my  first  examina- 
tion, about  the  capacities  of  most  of  those  distilleries  where  you  were 
assigned  and  have  spoken  of  here  ? — A.  At  first  most  of  them  were  six 
and  seven  bushels,  but  after  the  order  was  issued  from  the  department. 


468  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

of  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Eevenue,  that  he  would  recognize  dis- 
tilleries of  smaller  capacities,  as  four  bushels,  but  he  required  twenty- 
one  gallons  to  be  made  every  three  days  ;  that  was  the  smallest,  and 
that  would  a  little  over  cover  the  expenses ;  as  soon  as  that  order  was 
issued  most  of  the  new  ones  that  went  into  operation  w^ere  four-bushel 
distilleries.  I  snppose  the  principal  reason  that  they  prefer  four-bushel 
distilleries,  it  was  round  nnmbers  and  easy  to  calcnlate  and  so  ou,  and 
some  of  them  have  been  cut  down  from  six  and  seven  to  four  bushels. 

Q.  Do  you  know  of  a  man  who  had  a  seven-bushel  still  start  with 
two  four-bushel  ones  ? — A.  In  Wilkes  there  are  one  or  two  cases  of  that 
kind.  Mr.  William  Cooper,  when  the  order  was  issued  from  the  depart- 
ment recognizing  distilleries  of  small  capacity  of  twenty-one  gallons 
produced  every  three  days,  I  think  he  was  running  one  distillery  at  the 
time,  and  since  then  has  started  up  two. 

Q.  Of  what  capacity  ? — A,  I  think  four-bushel  distilleries.  I  never 
store-kept  for  him. 

Q.  Is  it  not  more  expensive  to  run  two  distilleries  of  four  bushels 
each  than  one  of  eight  ? — A,  I  think  it  is. 

Q.  It  requires  two  practical  distillers  insteatl  of  one  ? — A .  Two  sets 
of  hands. 

Q.  And  pretty  much  the  same  amount  of  fuel  in  the  furnace  ? — A. 
Very  nearly  ;  not  quite  so  much. 

Q.  What  was  the  common  price  of  whisky  at  the  distilleries  there  by 
the  quantity  ? — A.  Some  years  more  and  some  less  ;  I  suppose  it  aver- 
aged about  $1.4:0  per  gallon  ;  some  years  down  to  $1.25. 

Q.  You  have  heard  the  calculations  I  have  made  Jiere  for  Mr.  Mc- 
Corkle  and  Judge  Avery  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  heard  the  calculations. 

Q.  Was  there  any  money  in  a  small  distillery  at  the  price  they  w^ere 
selling  liquor,  $1.40  a  gallon,  when  corn  was  high,  and  $1.25  a  gallon 
when  it  was  cheap  ? — A.  A  distiller  told  me  this :  that  they  made  no 
money  on  their  whisky ;  just  so  they  got  clear  of  expenses  over  the 
whisky  they  were  satisfied;  that  the  slop  would  remunerate  them. 

Q.  Feediug  it  to  hogs  l — A.  And  to  cattle.  I  know  the  last  year 
where  I  store-kept  the  man  killed  9,000  pounds  of  pork  from  a  four- 
bushel  distillery,  and  he  calculated  that  this  would  make  five  or  eight 
lumdred  dollars  that  he  got  ou  the  slop,  and  consequently  there  is  where 
the  profit  is. 

Q.  Xot  in  the  whisky  ? — A.  No.  sir ;  not  in  the  whisky  ;  they  say  if 
they  can  clear  exi)enses  they  are  satisfied. 

Q.  Who  was  (yombs'  partner,  or  did  he  liave  any  '! — A.  When  ? 

Q.  I  have  information  that &Combs  liad  a  wholesale  liquor 

liouse. — A.  Tiiat  was  the  two  Combses  ;  J.  R.  and  J.  W.  Coiidis  were 
brothers,  and  Kccsc  Johnson  was  brotlier-iu-law  of  J.  K.  Combs;  they 
were  whoh,'sale  liquor  dealers,  and  there  was  another  Combs  a  wiiole- 
sale  licpior  dealei-,  rJiiiiies  Combs,  there  in  the  same  neighborliood. 

(}.  This  is  the  firm  of  Combs  ^^  Johnson,  I  presume,  that  had  a  whole- 
sal(!  li<|Uor  house  .' — A.  Yes,  sir;  they  were  manufacturers  and  whole- 
sale li(iu<jr  dealers. 

(J|.  J)o  you  know  if  tiiey  got  into  somi^  trouble  and  had  some  liquor 
seized  down  there  * — A.  I  heard  of  it,  but  I  cannot  give  you  particulars. 

i).   I  want  the  particulars. — A.   1  heard  they  had  some  whisky  seized. 

(^>.  Did  you  hear  it  was  seizcil  and  report  made  by  J.  ().  A.  liryan  in 
regard  to  it? — A.  No,  sir;   I  knew  nothing  about  that. 

By  Mr.  Tool: 
(}.  Certainly   there   is   n(j(hing    inqtioper   in   these  gentlemen    being 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  469 

wholesale  dealers  and  distillers  at  the  same  time  ? — A.  Ko,  sir  ;  uot  that 
I  know  of. 

Senator  McDill.  I  will  oft'er  in  evidence  pp.  99  to  109,  inclusive,  of 
Ex,  Doc.  Xo.  G2,  Forty-sixtli  Congress,  second  session : 

Tkeastrv  Dkpartmext, 
Office  of  Ixternai.  Revenue, 

December  21,  1«76. 
Sir:  I  desire  you  to  take  immediate  steps  to  break  np  the  illicit  biisiuess  iu  the  pro- 
duction and  sale  of  tobacco  and  spirits  iu  your  district.  Frauds  agaiust  the  revenue 
iu  North  Carolina  have  become  so  open  and  notorious  that  a  strong  ieeliug  ])revails  at 
this  office  that  these  frauds  could  uot  exist  and  continue  without  the  aciiuiescence  of 
local  officers. 

I  desire  yon  to  look  over  your  list  of  deputy  collectors,  and  if  you  have  any  men 
■vvho  are  not  thoroughly  honest  and  efficient,  to  dismiss  them  at  once,  and  replace  them 
by  persons  who  are. 

The  collectors  and  their  deputies  will  be  held  responsible  for  breaking  up  all  fraud- 
ulent practices  iu  their  respective  districts. 

Reveuue  Agent  Wagner  will  be  directed  to  call  upon  you  and  consult  with  you, 
and,  as  far  as  may  be,  aid  you  iu  breaking  up  these  frauds. 

You  must  have  deputies  who  will  thoroughly  police  their  divisions,  and  who  will 
regularly  visit  tobacco  factories  and  distilleries  to  see  that  everything  is  going  on  ac- 
cording to  law.  Blocli-adinfi  mmt  he  stopped.  There  is  no  reason  why  the  manufact- 
urers of  your  State  shall  not  pay  taxes  on  their  products  just-  like  manufacturers  of 
other  sections  of  the  country.  The  taxes  are  paid  by  consumers  in  the  end. 
I  wish  you  to  give  this  matter  your  active  and  energetic  supervision. 
Verv  respectfully, 

GREEN  B.  RAUxM, 

Commissioner. 
J.  J.  MOTT,  Esq., 

Collector,  StatesviUe,  X.  C. 


[Telegram.] 

Greensborough,  N.  C,  Febriianj  9,  1877. 
Hou.  Greex  B.  Raum, 

Commissioner  Internal  Bevenue: 
Sir:  District  Attorney  Lusk  writes  Marshal  Douglas  that  at  a  trial  of  a  distiller 
before  Commissioner  Morris,  in  Henderson  County,  North  Carolina,  on  the  3d,  twenty 
armed  men  attacked  the  court,  fatally  wounding  Harkins,  de2)utj^  marshal.  Other 
officers  escaped.  Distiller  fatally  wouuded.  Am  executing  your  orders  rapidly  as 
possible. 

JACOB  WAGNER, 

I\erenne  Agent. 


Treasury  Departmext, 
Office  of  Internal  Revenue, 

Washinr/fon,  April  18,  1877. 
Sill:  It  is  reported  at  this  office  that  cumulative  suits  are  being  brought  against 
Reveuue  Agent  Wagner  and  hisemployes  by  persons  who  have  been  arrested  for  illicit 
distillation.  It  is  believed  that  these  proceedings  are  iustitutedfor  the  purpose  of  de- 
terring officers  from  discharging  their  duties,  and  iu  order  to  intimidate  them  from 
appearing  as  witnesses  agaiust  violators  of  the  iuterual-reveuue  laws. 

I  desire  to  assure  you  that  the  whole  power  of  the  government  will  be  invoked  to 
Sustain  and  support  all  officers  of  the  internal  revenue  iu  the  proper  aud  faithful  dis- 
charge of  their  duties,  aud  I  trust  that  none  of  the  officers  will  be  deterred  from  a 
fearless  performance  of  official  duty  by  threats  of  prosecution.  I  wish  you  to  see  that 
the  proceedings  against  the  illicit  distillers  aud  tobacco  manufacturers  iu  your  district 
who  have  beeii  complained  of  for  violations  of  law  are  rigorously  prosecuted. 

This  office  has  great  confidence  iu  Major  Waguer,  aud  is  satisfied  that  he  has  done 
no  act  iu  the  prosecution  of  his  work  that  will  uot  be  justified  by  a  proper  application 
of  the  rules  of  law. 
Respectfullv, 

GREEN  B.  RAUM, 

Commissioner. 
J.  J.  MoTf,  Esq., 

Collector  Sixth  District,  Statesrille,  X.  C. 


470  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

Greenville,  S.  C,  April  2'.\  1877. 

Sir:  On  the  14tli  instant  I  was  arraigned  Ijefoie  A.  P.  Eckels,  justice  of  the  jjeace 
of  Greeusborough,  N.  C,  to<;ether  with  George  Cronenberger  and  Chas.  Clark,  dejiiity 
U.  S.  marshals,  and  John  Wagner,  C.  A.  Kile,  Chas.  McCorniick,  James  Foster,  Wm. 
H.  McCormick,  and  Henry  Clark,  men  employed  by  nie  to  assist  me  in  araidon  illicit 
distillers  in  Randolph  County,  North  Carolina,  on  the  tilst  of  December  last,  on  a 
warrant  issued  on  oatli  of  R.  H.  Kennett,  one  of  three  men  whom  we  chanced  to 
pick  up  with  a  quantity  of  illicit  whisky  in  their  possession,  which  they  were  remov- 
ing in  a  wagon.  The  warrant  charged  us  with  "  assault  atd  b.ittery  and  false  im- 
prisonment," and  after  a  hearing  we  were  held  in  a  total  sum  of  $1,900  bail  for  onr 
appearance  at  Guilford  County  superior  court,  in  September  next.  I  made  the  bail 
for  myself  and  men,  while  the  deputy  marshals  provided  their  own. 

The  facts  constituting  the  basis  of  this  action  are  as  follows : 

"We  were 'proceeding  to  the  distilleries  in  Randolph  County  on  the  night  named, 
when,  about  10  o'clock,  we  met  Thomas  Kirkmau,  R.  H.  Kennett,  and  Robert  Han- 
nah, with  a  wagon  containing  a  barrel  with  94  gallons  of  whisky.  Satisfying  our- 
selves that  it  was  illicit,  I  took  charge  of  the  team  and  whisky,  and  the  marshals 
took  the  men.  There  were  no  warrants  for  their  arrest  issued  until  next  day,  when, 
immediately  on  onr  return  to  Greensborough,  they  were  taken  before  a  commissioner, 
the  nearest  from  the  point  where  they  were  arrested. 

The  party  divided  during  the  night,  and  the  marshals  handcuffed  the  prisoners  to 
prevent  their  escape.  The  evidence  on  which  we  were  bound  over  by  the  justice  of 
the  peace  was  that  of  R.  H.  Kennett,  a  full  statement  of  which  I  herewith  inclose. 

I  respectfully  request  a  careful  perusal  of  this  testimony,  which  shows  that  the 
parties  were  caught  in  the  act. 

I  respectfully  submit  that,  under  the  statutes  of  the  United  States,  marshals  and 
their  deputies  have  the  powers  of  sheriffs  in  the  States  where  they  are  appointed  and 
act,  and  that  as  sherifi's  may  arrest  persons  found  committing  violations  of  law,  even 
of  the  grade  of  misdemeanors,  without  warrants,  so  I  hold  that  United  States  marshals 
may  arrest  persons  caught  conrmitting  the  offense  these  parties  were  engaged  in.  In 
support  of  this  I  have  the  opinion  of  Judge  Hugh  L.  Bond,  District  Attorneys  Lusk 
and  Ball,  and  the  ruling  of  Judges  A.  H.  Rives  and  George  S.  Bryan. 

I  also  respectfully  request  that  the  United  States  district  attorney  for  the  western 
district  of  North  Carolina  may  be  instructed  to  defend  me  and  all  the  persons  above 
named  in  this  suit,  after  having  the  same  removed  to  the  United  States  circuit  court. 
Very  respectfully, 

JACOB  WAGNER, 

Revenue  Agent. 

Hon.  Green  B.  Raum, 

Comtnissioner  Internal  Revenue,  Washinyton,  D.  C. 


United  States  Internal  Revenue, 
Collector's  Office,  Sixth  District  North  Carolina, 

Statesrille,  April  23,  1377. 

Sir:  I  have  the  honor  to  acknowledge  the  recei]»t  of  your  letter  of  the  18th  instant, 
relative  to  suits  which  are  being  brought  against  Revenue  Agent  Wagner,  and  stating 
that  "it  is  believed  that  these  proceedings  are  instituted  for  the  purpose  of  deterring 
officers  from  discharging  their  duties  and  to  intin\idate  them  from  ajjpearing  as  wit- 
nesses against  violators  of  the  internal-revenue  laws." 

The  opinion  of  the  department  is,  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge,  correct,  and  the 
action  of  the  judges  of  the  superior  courts  in  this  State  is  calculated  to  uphold  and 
encourage  illifit  distillers,  itc,  and  to  create  armed  resistance  to  the  operations  of  my 
ollicers  under  tlu;  law  and  your  instructions. 

Additional  encouragc-uKMit  is  spread  broa  least  before  the  oflendors  against  the  rev- 
enue laws  l)y  the  newsi)apers  in  the  State,  extracts  from  which  I  havei  the  honor  to 
inclose  herewith. 

'I'hi-  ]>rovisious  of  secti<»n  G4li,  Revised  Statutes,  are  declared  unconstitutional,  and 
are  totally  disregarded.  The  ofticers  of  internal  revenue  concerned  in  these  cases, 
and  who  have  licen  indicted  in  the  State  courts,  are  rend(>r(Ml  liable  to  arrest  and  im- 
prisonment, ivithout  rccourHe,  ami  if  fortunate  enough  to  obtain  temporary  bail  (accept- 
able to  tlie  prosecutors)  they  are  ]>ut  to  unusual  and  extraordinary  cxptMises,  for 
wliieli  no  pidvision  is  madi-,  and  which  is  not  leimbursed  to  them,  thus  causing  heavy 
expenditures  (for  them )  IVuni  their  alreiidy  slender  ])ay. 

I'rider  tliese  eircumstaiices  my  til'lieei-s  express  a  disiiielinatidu  to  jn'oceed  with  the 
o|ierations  instituted  against  illegal  operators  unless  some  pi'ovision  is  made  for  their 
l»rotection,  and  i  rt-connnend  that  a  pn)vision  In-,  made  by  the  departnitMit  for  the  pay- 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  471 

meut  of  all  fees  (for  counsel,  »fcc.)  in  all  cases  of  this  character  which  are  now  or  may 
hereafter  he  brought  before  the  State  conrts  in  this  district  against  otilicers  of  internal 
revenue. 

I  may  add  that  seven  of  my  officei's  are  now  under  indictment  for  similar  causes, 
and  that  it  has  been  only  by  the  greatest  exertion  on  my  part,  and  by  the  expenditure 
of  a  considerable  amount  for  counsel  fees,  «&c.,  that  they  are  now  out  of  primv,  on  bail. 

I  may  add  that,  because  of  the  ^>o^:>H/rtr  feeling  against  the  revenue,  it  is  extremely 
difficult  to  obtain  the  services  of  any  reliable  attorney  in  our  behalf.  I  succeeded  in 
the  cases  now  on  hand  only  by  payment  of  "retainers"  of  unusual  amount,  supple- 
mented with  promises  of  further  compensation. 

I  beg  your  early  consideration  of  and  reply  to  this  letter. 
Very  respectfully, 

J.  J.  MOTT,  Collector. 

Hon.  Green  B.  Raum, 

Commissioner  Internal  Berenne,  Wasliiinjlnn,  D.  C. 


Treasury  Department, 
Office  of  Internal  Revenue, 

Washington,  June  16,  1877. 

Sir  :  For  a  number  of  years  the  illicit  manufacture  and  sale  of  spirits  and  tobacco 
have  been  carried  on  in  certain  districts  throughout  the  United  Statts,  in  many  in- 
stances in  open  defiance  of  the  officers  of  internal  revenue,  so  that  the  ordinary  ar- 
rangements for  the  collection  of  internal  revenue  taxes  have  been  insufficient  for  the 
suppression  of  these  frauds.  I  have  determined  that  the  next  fiscal  year  shall  be  sig- 
nalized by  the  suppression  of  these  frauds,  and  to  that  end,  in  recommending  allow- 
ances for  collectors  for  the  fiscal  year  commencing  July  1,  1877, 1  have  reserved  a  sum 
of  money  to  be  esx)ecially  devoted  to  the  employment  of  additional  deputy  collectors 
from  time  to  time  to  aid  the  regular  force  in  the  work  above  alluded  to.  It  is  not 
proposed  to  keep  this  extra  force  of  deputies  continuously  employed,  but  to  employ 
them  at  pi'oper  times  to  assist  policing  the  infested  portions  of  the  district,  so  that  the 
men  engaged  in  the  frauds  will  become  satisfied  that  their  occupation  is  too  danger- 
ous to  be  persisted  in,  and  that  in  consequence  they  will  abandon  their  unlawful 
business.  I  expect  collectors  in  the  infested  districts  to  act  with  great  energy  and 
determination  for  the  suppression  of  these  frauds,  and,  in  t^je  selection  of  depuiies  for 
the  work,  to  secure  the  services  of  men  of  integrity,  sobriety,  and  courage. 

It  is  expected  that  the  operations  against  those  who  are  engaged  in  tiie  illicit  man- 
ufacture ami  sale  of  spirits  and  tobacco  shall  be  conducted  in  an  orderly  and  legal 
manner,  so  as  to  challenge  the  respect  of  well-meaning  people,  but  with  a  vigor,  de- 
termination, and  persistency  that  will  convince  wrong-doers  that  it  is  the  intention 
of  the  government  to  break  up  their  unlawful  ojjerations. 

It  is  well  known  that  numerous  persons  are  now  engaged  in  the  illicit  manufacture 
and  sale  of  spirits  in  your  district,  and  I  desire  that  you  shall  take  immediate  steps  to 
suppress  the  same  with  a  strong  hand,  and  for  that  purpose  you  will  please  forward 
your  application  for  allowance  for  deputy  collectors  for  your  district,  stating  the  num- 
ber of  deputies  required,  the  period  of  time  for  which  their  services  will  be  needed, 
and  the  amount  of  pay,  including  horse-hire  and  traveling  expenses,  that  shall  be 
allowed  them.  It  is  important  that  suitable  arrangements  shall  be  made  for  co- 
operation by  the  United  States  marshal  for  your  district,  so  that  the  arrest  of  distil- 
lers can  be  effected  at  the  time  of  the  seizure  of  the  stills. 

Prompt  action  is  desired  in  this  matter.  Please  acknowledge  the  receipt  of  this 
letter. 

Very  respectfully, 

GREEN  B.  RAUM, 

Commissioner. 

John  J.  Mott,  Esq., 

Collector  Sixth  District,  Sfatesville,  X.  C. 


United  States  Internal  Revenue, 
Collector's  Office,  Sixth  District  North  Carolina, 

Statescille,  October  8,  1877. 
Sir:  I  have  the  honor  to  submit  the  following  report  relative  to  a  raid  recently 
made  in  Burke  County,  in  my  district : 

Deputy  Collector  A.  B.  Gillespie,  accompanied  by  Deputy  Marshals  Patterson  and 
McDowell  and  two  assistants  (live  in  all),  started  from  Morgautou  on  the  evening 


472  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

of  October  1,  inteudiug  to  make  a  seizure  of  stills  autl  whisky,  illicit,   reported  to 
Deputy  Gillespie. 

The  names  of  the  distillers,  as  reported,  were  James  York,  Nicholas  York,  and  Harvey 
York;  aud  the  location  iu  South  Mountains,  about  lf3  miles  from  Morganton. 

Arriving  early  on  October  2  a.  m.,  they  found  three  distilleries  operating  illicitly; 
at  one  of  them  the  still  had  been  removed  recently  (tire  was  still  under  the  furnace). 

The  two  stills,  with  caps  aud  worms  complete,  were  brought  to  Morganton.  .Search 
in  the  vicinity  discovered  about  60  gallons  of  whisky  and  two  barrels  of  brandy,  all 
unstamped.  The  whisky  was  destroyed  for  want  of  transportation  ;  but  the  brandy 
was  safely  brought  to  Morganton. 

Two  persons  were  found  in  the  still-house,  situated  on  James  York's  plantation,  aud 
supposed  to  belong  to  Nicholas  York.  The  persons  were  arrested  aud  brought  to  Mor- 
ganton aud  contined  in  jail  to  await  action  by  the  United  States  commissioner.  Their 
names  are  Nicholas  York  and  Alfred  Hoyle.  They  were  working  iu  the  still-house  when 
arrested. 

^Vbile  searching  in  the  vicinity  fire  was  suddenly  opeued  upon  the  United  States 
ofiBcers  by  persons  concealed  in  the  bushes  and  behind  trees  and  rocks.  The  number 
of  assailants  is  estimated  to  be  twelve.  They  were  all  armed  with  long  ritles.  The 
ofScers  retreated  with  their  prisoners  and  cajitured  property  down  the  mountain, 
being  met  at  every  turn  of  the  narrt>\v  and  rough  road  by  the  attacking  party,  who, 
out  of  sight  and  range  of  the  officers'  pistols,  kept  up  a  persistent  tire.  From  about  8 
a.  m.  October  2  until  12  m.  the  tiring  upon  the  ofticers  was  kept  up. 

All  of  the  officers  except  one  were  hit  with  the  bullets,  and  Deputy  Collector  Gil- 
lespie was  seriously  wounded.  A  bullet  entered  his  right  shoulder,  penetrating  back- 
ward aud  toward  his  left  side  as  far  as  the  backbone.  He  is  now  at  Morganton, 
under  medical  treatment.     The  Ijall  has  not  been  extracted. 

The  horse  ridden  by  McDowell,  a  tine  animal,  and  lielongiug  to  him,  was  killed  early 
in  the  day,  and  the  one  belonging  to  Pattersou  was  severely  wounded.  The  party 
arrived  at  Morganton  on  their  return  about  7  p.  m.  Octol)er  2. 

The  locality  raided  by  Mr.  Gillespie  and  his  compauious  is  notoriously  a  dangerous 
•ne,  anil  the  inhabitants  are  unscrupulous  desperadoes;  all  interested  in  illicit  dis- 
tilling. They  band  together,  as  in  this  case,  for  mutual  protection  against  and  resist- 
ance to  revenue  oiiicers  and  the  laws. 

Previous  to  this  occurrence  United  States  soldiers  have  been  shot  at  and  wounded, 
aud  in  one  instance  killed. 

In  a  neighboring  township  these  same  officers,  while  in  the  performance  of  their 
duty,  were,  about  two  weeks  ago,  shot  at  from  behind  shelter. 

I  would  suggest  that  prompt  and  vigorous  measures  be  at  once  taken  to  suppress 
illicit  distilling  in  this  section,  and  to  bring  the  ottenders  in  this  case  to  justice.  They 
can  be  identified. 

Verv  respectfully, 

J.  J.  MOTT,   CoUcctor. 

Hon.  Gheex  B.  R.^um, 

Commisniontr  Inttrnal  Eevenm,   IVavltiiifitoii,  D.  C. 


United  States  Internal  Revenue, 
C()LLECT<»r's  Okfice,  Sixth  District  Nohtii  Carolina, 

atatesciUe,  Decemhir  10,  1877. 
Sir:  I  have  the  honor  to  state  that,  in  my  opinion,  the  efficiency  of  my  deputies 
(special  force)  will  be  greatly  increased  to  have  them  properly  armed. 

I  therefore  make  rc(iiiisitiou  for  ten  repeating  carbines  and  a  sutficient  quantity  of 
cartridgi's,  and  r((|n(st  tiiat  they  may  be  forwarded  to  this  office  as  soon  as  possible. 
^'ery  respectfully, 

J.  J.  MOTT,   Collector. 
Hon.  G.  B.  Rai;m, 

Commixxioucr  /iittyiial  R(rr)nic,   U'dxhiiifiloi),  1).  C. 


Trkasi'rv  Department, 
OiEicE  Internal  Revenue, 

Jhcemlwr  22,  1877. 

•Sll! :  I  desire  Id  cull  \  our  al  lent  inn  to  t  he  mi)inrt ,nicc  of  vigorous  action  on  the  part 
of  all  re  \  ell  lie  oiiicers  fur  I  lie  sniipressioii  of  illicit  dist  illal  ion. 

I  ;ini  uialilied  l>v  the  zeal  lieretofore  nninifested  hy  you  in  this  direction  aud  with 
llie  nsiilts  attained  in  vuni  district.     The  season  has  arrived  when  illicit  distillers  are 


THE    SIXIH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  473 

usually  the  most  active.  I  trust  that  you  will  take  such  prompt  and  active  measures 
to  break  up  this  illicit  traffic  as  will  give  theoffeuders  to  understaud  tliat  the  laws  for 
the  suppressiou  of  illicit  distillation  are  to  be  euforctsd  and  all  violators  thereof  brought 
to  punishment.  I  am  satisfied  that  such  action  will  have  the  effect  to  deter  many  old 
oftenders  from  engagiug  in  their  former  unlawful  business,  and  thus  save  the  govern- 
ment much  trouble  and  expense. 

Your  allowance  for  sis  special  deputy  collectors  coutiuues  to  the  15th  proximo.  I 
trust  that  you  will  use  them  to  the  best  advantage  during  the  intervening  time,  and 
that  at  the  expiration  of  that  jieriod  you  will  hav(5  accomplished  a  good  deal.  You 
have  also  a  considerable  amount  to  your  credit  from  the  allowance  made  you  for  the 
employment  of  guides,  &.c.  With  this  force  I  think  you  should  be  able  to  break  up 
illicit  distillation  in  your  district. 

No  definite  reports  as  to  the  result  of  your  operations  for  the  suppression  of  illicit 
distillation  have  l)een  received  for  some  time,  and  I  am  una1)le  to  judge  wliat  you 
have  accomplished  l>y  the  aid  of  your  special  deputies.  I  have  to  re([uest  that  you 
will  report  somewhat  in  detail  to'  this  office  at  an  early  day  what  you  have  already 
done  and  are  now  doing  for  the  suppressiou  of  the  frauds  above  referred  to,  stating 
also  the  general  condition  of  your  district  in  respect  to  illicit  distillation. 
Respectfullv, 

GREEN  B.  RAUM, 

Commissioner. 

.1.  J.  MOTT,  Esq., 

Collector  Internal  EeveHKC,  StalesriUe,  N.  C. 


United  States  Internal  Revenue, 
Collector's  Office,  Sixth  District  North  Carolina, 

Staiesville,  December  '.W,  1877. 

Sir  :  I  have  the  honor  to  give  you  the  following  information  in  regard  to  the  recent 
cases  of  the  indictment  of  my  ofidcers  in  Burke  County  court,  this  State. 

The  defendants,  six  in  nuniber,  were  indicted  for  assault  and  battery  and  false  im- 
prisonment in  four  cases,  by  one  Oates,  workman,  and  York.  The  bill  of  indictment 
was  found  at  fall  term  1877,  and  on  the  grand  jury  were  near  relations  of  those  on 
whom  the  offense  is  alleged  to  have  l)een  committed. 

The  scene  of  the  offense  is  South  Mountains,  in  Burke  County,  North  Carolina, 
where  there  has  heretofore  been  much  armed  resistance  to  the  enforcement  of  the 
revenue  laws,  and  where  even  United  States  soldiers  have  more  than  once  been  fired 
upon. 

On  the  2d  of  October,  1877,  the  defendants  went  to  the  locality  for  the  purpose  of 
suppressing  the  unlawful  distillation  of  spirits.  At  a  certain  notorious  point  they 
found  25  hogsheads  of  beer,  a  hogshead  of  siuglings,  and  a  still  in  full  operation.  They 
also  found  a  brandy  still  in  operation.  Both  still-houses  were  pierced  for  the  use  of 
guns  in  their  defense,  and  guns  loaded  were  found  in  both. 

At  a  house  near  the  distillery  they  arrested  a  person  whom  they  suspected  of  being 
connected  with  the  violations  of  the  law,  and  two  others  in  the  still-houses.  While 
employed  in  the  discharge  of  their  duties,  in  destroying  the  beer  and  removing  the 
stills,  the  defendants  were  fired  on  from  the  bushes  with  rifies,  the  persons  shooting- 
being  from  one  to  two  hundred  yards  off.  As  mauy  as  four  shots  were  tired  before  the 
fire  was  returned.  The  persons  thus  concealed  then  continued  to  fire  until  as  many 
as  forty  shots  were  fired. 

The  defendants  were  armed  with  small  (3  and  4  inch  barrel)  revolvers.  All  of  the 
defendants  were  struck,  one  (Gillespie)  was  severely  wouuded  in  the  shoulder,  one 
received  a  bullet  in  his  hat,  and  one  horse  was  killed.  The  firing  continued  for  four 
hours  at  intervals,  the  defendants  being  followed  from  the  still-houses  until  they  were 
out  of  the  suspected  and  rebellious  vicinity.  They  were  only  saved  by  keeping  the 
prisoners  in  a  line  close  to  themselves. 

None  of  the  persons  who  were  firing  on  the  defendants  were  struck.  The  indict- 
ment is  procured  in  the  State  coui-t  against  these  officers  for  the  purpose  of  compelling 
the  officers  of  the  government  to  desist  in  the  prosecution  of  the  ofienders.  Of  course 
there  is  not  the  "ghost  of  a  chance"  for  the  defendants  in  the  State  courts  ;  therefore 
.steps  were  taken  to  remove  the  cases. 

It  is  positively  certain  that  a  regular  and  organized  system  of  illicit  distillation  is 
carried  on  in  the  vicinity  referi'ed  to  above,  and  for  its  protection  regular  picket  lines 
are  kept  up,  and  no  revenue  officer  can  go  into  the  vicinity  without  certain  and  de- 
termined attacks  being  made  on  his  life.  The  court  at  Morganton  (State  court) 
refused  to  allow  a  transfer  of  these  cases,  which  caused  me  much  trouble,  as  I  deter 
mined  to  use  every  legitimate  means  to  remove  them,  and  had  to  resort  to  habeas 


474  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

corpus,  which  necessitated  the  employing  of  additional  counsel  here  before  the  L'^nited 
States  court. 

Very  respectfully, 

J.  J.  MOTT,  Collector. 
Hon.  G.  B.  Raum, 

Commissioner  Internal  lievenne,  Washington.  I).  C. 


Treasury  Department, 
Office  Internal  Revenue, 

April  9,  1878. 

Sir  :  Hon.  W.  M.  Robbius  has  referred  to  this  office  the  petition  of  William  A.  Mc- 
Glainey  and  tifteen  others,  addressed  to  the  President,  asking  that  T.  Marshal  McNeill, 
of  Wilkes  County,  for  whom  it  is  alleged  a  warrant  has  been  issued  upon  a  charge  of 
illicit  distilling,  be  pardoned.  It  is  asserted  that  Mr.  McNeill  has  abandoned  his  vio- 
lations of  law,  and  is  now  engaged  with  McNeill,  Hays  &  Co.,  as  a  lawful  distiller. 
If  this  is  true,  I  would  be  willing  to  dispose  of  the  charge  against  him  by  suspending 
the  judgment  of  the  court  upon  his  pleading  guilty  to  the  charge,  thus  placing  him 
upon  his  good  behavior. 

You  will  please  consult  with  the  district  attorney  upon  this  subject,  and  take  such 
action  in  the  matter  as  will  be  just  and  proper  under  the  circumstances. 
Very  respectfully, 

GREEN  B.  RAUM, 

Commissioner. 
J.  J.  Mott,  Esq., 

Collector,  Statesville,  X.  C. 


Treasury  Department, 
Office  of  Internal  Revenue. 

TVashinaton,  March  13,  1878. 
Sir:  I  desire  that  you  would,  as  early  as  practicable,  inform  this  office  of  the  con- 
dition of  your  district  in  regard  to  illicit  distillation,  and  what  further  means,  if  any, 
are  necessary  to  effectually  suppress  these  frauds  and  secure  the  arrest  and  punish- 
ment of  the  violators  of  the  law  in  this  respect. 

I  am  aware  that,  during  the  past  winter,  yon  have  accomplished  much,  but  to 
secure  the  greatest  benelit  to  the  government  In  this  work,  and  to  render  the  results 
permanent,  there  should  be  no  relaxation  of  ertbrt  while  you  have  reason  to  believe 
that  a  still  is  being  illicitly  operated  in  your  district. 

With  a  view  to  continuing  oi)erations  in  this  direction,  I  have  to  request  that  you 
will,  in  your  rei)ort  of  the  condition  of  your  district,  embrace  a  statement  of  the 


employment  of  special  deputy  collectors. 
Respectfully, 


.J.  Mott,  Esc]., 

Collector  Internal  Revenue,  Statesville,  X.  C. 


GREEN  B.  RAUM, 

Commissioner. 


|Tclc;:raTn.l 

Treasui{v  Department, 
Office  of  Internal  Revenue, 

May  2-2, 1878. 

If  you  ficciii  it  advisiibji'  to  have  assistant  counsel  for  the  defense  of  Gillespie,  the 
I'atti'rsoiis,  and  McDowells,  consult  with  the  district  attorney  and  employ  one  or  more 
prornineMt  lawyers.  'I'he  Attorney-CJeneral  is  absent  from  the  city,  but  1  will  under- 
fake  to  si'c  tli;it  llie  assistant  couiisc]  arr  jiroperly  rcmuncratfil  for  their  services.  It 
is  fhf  dfftriiiiiialioii  of  the  jiovcnmiciit  to  jnotcct  its  oriiccis  with  every  means  at  its 
hamis  against  nnjust  prosecution  trumi)ed  up  for  the  piuitosc  (d'  deterring  them  from 
eiilbieinir  the  Laws. 

(;reen  b.  K'AUM, 

Commissioner. 
.1.    .f,    MnlT, 

Collri  l(ir,  StaleHvilh,  S.  C. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  475 

United  States  Ixteunal  Rkvenie, 
CoLLECTOii's  Office,  Sixth  District  North  Carolina, 

Statescilh;  June  17,  187R. 

Sir  :  I  have  the  honor  to  loiiort  that  on  the  11th  instant.  Special  Deputy  Lilliiij^toii, 
witli  two  otliors  (one  a  j!,nide),  were  in  a  part  of  the  Brushy  Mountains,  iu  this  district, 
about  :!()  miles  distant  from  this  office,  searching  for  illicit  distilleries,  when,  without 
the  slightest  warning,  they  were  tired  upon  by  persons  concealed. 

The  number  of  the  assailants  being  unknown,  and  the  nature  of  the  locality  being 
such  as  to  preclude  till  possibility  of  detecting  or  successfully  resisting  them  with  the 
small  force  at  his  command,  Deputy  Llllington  retreated  to  the  main  road,  which  was 
about  a  mile  distant.  During  their  retreat  the  tiring  was  continued;  and,  although 
the  bullets  cut  the  trees  and  struck  in  the  ground  around  the  deputies,  ueitherof  them 
was  injured. 

This  assault  was  committed  in  the  neighborhood  where,  on  March  19,  1878,  a  dis- 
tillery belonging  to  Berry  Estep  and  J.  F.  Parlier  was  cut  up  by  my  deputies  (report 
on  Form  117,  rendered  March  10,  1878),  and  L.  F.  Parlier  (son  of  J.  F.)  is  reported  as 
being  connected  with  the  gang  who  were  concerned  in  the  shooting.  Evidence  is 
being  worked  up  to  connect  him  therewith. 

In  this  connection,  and  to  demonstrate  in  some  degree  tlie  lawlessness  which  exists 
in  certain  portions  of  this  district,  as  in  connection  with  illicit  distilleries,  I  have  to 
inform  you  that  I  am,  this  day,  in  receipt  of  a  report,  l»eariug  date  June  15,  from 
Deputy  Collector  Bryan,  at  Morgauton,  who  states  as  follows  : 

"Old  man  Ramsey,  of  South  Mountains,  was  here  yesterday,  and  a  fellow  from  Brin- 
dletowu  knocked  him  down  with  a  rock  and  then  stamped  him  in  the  face. 

"  These  fellows  accuse  Ramsey  of  reporting  them.  They  killed  his  horse  some  weeks 
past;  Ramsey  then  borrowed  a  mule  from  Amos  Huft'man  to  tend  his  crop,  and  last 
Tuesday  night  they  shot  the  mule  dead  iu  Ramsey's  stable ;  and  my  opinion  is  they 
will  kill  Ramsey  if  he  remains  in  that  section  long.     *     *     * 

"There  are  a  good  many  illicit  distilleries  in  operation  iu  these  mountains,  but 
everybody  is  afraid  to  tell  on  these  fellows  for  fear  they  get  the  fate  of  Ramsey.  I 
am  trying  to  'spot'  them,  and  if  I  cau  'get  the  dots  on  them'  I  will  report  the  same 
at  once.     *     *     * 

"The  very  devil  is  in  these  outlaws,  and  they  will  be  very  liard  to  tame." 

I  am  doing  my  best  to  exterminate  this  evil  in  my  district,  but,  to  quote  the  words 
of  Deputy  Bryan,  "the  very  devil  is  iu  them,"  &c. 

When  a  law-abiding  citizen  makes  any  report  which  leads  to  the  detection  or  arrest 
of  any  of  these  "outlaws,"  if  it  becomes  known,  he  is  persecuted  in  every  imaginable 
way,  as  in  the  case  of  "Ramsey." 

Such  things  have  been  happening  here  all  along,  but  I  have  refrained  from  reporting 
all  of  them,  because  I  disliked  to  advertise  the  community  so  much,  and  hoped  that 
such  conduct  would  cease. 

I  shall  give  it  all  in  future  to  you  and  to  such  of  the  press  of  the  State  as  will  pub- 
lish it,  particularly  as  there  is  no  abatement  of  this  malicious  enmity  toward  ofticers 
of  the  revenue  on  the  part  of  many  of  tliese  people  and  their  friends,  and  also  because 
the  Congress  of  the  United  States  seems  about  to  be  iutluenced  by  them  to  refuse  to 
officers  of  the  revenue  the  trial  of  their  causes  iu  the  United  States  courts,  when  it  is 
well  known  that  these  officers  cannot  get  justice  iu  the  State  courts,  where  the  officers 
of  the  State  courts  vie  with  each  oiher  iu  their  persecutions  of  revenue  meu,  and 
make  such  persecutions  a  means  of  keeping  themselves  iu  office  and  exalting  them- 
selves before  the  people. 
Very  respectfi:Ilv, 

J.  J.  MOTT,  Collector. 

Hon.  G.  B.  Raum, 

Commissioner  Internal  Eeveiiue,  Washington,  D.  C. 


United  States  Internal  Renenue, 
Collector's  Office,  Sixth  District  North  Carolina, 

Statesville,  July  5,  1878. 
Sir  :  I  have  the  honor  to  report  that  during  May  and  June,  1878,  the  force  of  special 
deputies  has  been  actively  engaged  in  the  suppression  of  illicit  distillation  of  spirits 
in  this  district;  mainly  operating  in  the  counties  of  Yadkin,  Wilkes,  Ui)per  Iredell, 
Alexander,  Catawba,  Gaston,  McDowell,  Rutherford,  Polk,  Henderson,  and  Transyl- 
vania. 

During  May  they  traveled  about  650  miles,  and  during  June  COO  miles,  visiting  and 
destroying  69  illicit  distilleries. 
There  were  destroyed  during  these  mouths  36  copper  stills  and  fixtures;  704  stands 


476  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

•of  beer  or  iiiasb,  averagiug  100  gallons  each,  being  70,400  gallons  beer  or  mash;   1515 
empty  stands  ;  40  bushels  meal  or  malt ;  1,OHO  gallons  singlings  ;  b5  gallons  whisky. 

More  stills  would  have  been  destroyed  had  it  not  been  for  the  habit  which  the 
illicit  distillers,  in  their  fear  of  surprises  by  the  deputies,  have  been  practicing,  of 
taking  out  their  stills  during  the  time  used  in  mashing  and  fermenting,  an<l  replacing 
them  for  short  and  indefinite  periods  for  "  running  otit "  singlings  or  whisky. 

Distilleries  would  be  found  filled  with  mash  or  beer,  but  from  which  the  still  had 
■been  removed.  Evidence  has  been  obtained  which  warranted  the  issuance  by  the 
several  United  States  commissioners  of  warrants  for  the  arrest  of  many  of  the  i)arties 
•concerned  in  the  operation  of  the  illicit  distilleries  destroyed. 

Kesistance  was  attempted  in  several  cases,  but  no  one  was  injured. 

On  June  15  the  force  surrounded  and  captured  five  prisoners;  four  of  whom  were 
released  on  Itail,  and  the  fifth  one,  Thomas  Beasley,  a  partner  of  the  notorious  Redman, 
^ind  who  was  by  him  released  from  Pickens  (.S.  C.)  jail,  was  turned  over  to  the  cu.stody 
of  Special  Deputy  Hufi'man  and  a  squad  from  South  Carolina. 

A  letter  since  received  from  Hutfman  gives  the  information  that  shortly  after  his 
departure  for  South  Carolina  with  the  prisoner,  his  command  was  attacked  by  about 
60  men,  with  intent  to  rescue  Beasley,  who,  however,  was  closely  and  safely  guarded 
to  jail  again. 

The  force  is  now  operating  in  South  Mountains,  in  Burke  Coiinty,  with  success. 

During  the  latter  part  of  June  two  members  of  the  force  were  taken  seriously  and 
suddenly  ill,  overcome  with  heat,  fatigue,  and  exposure.     A  few  days  of  rest  for  the 
men  and  greatly  needed  by  their  horses  were  taken  before  proceeding  to  Burke. 
Very  respectfully, 


Hon.  G.  B.  Raum, 

Commissioner  InftDial  Beveiiue,  TVasliiiu/foi,  D.  C. 


J.  J.  MOTT,  CoUccior. 


[Telefjram. 


Treasury  Departmkxt, 
Office  of  Internal  KE^■EN^E. 

Witshinijton,  Ociober  "25,  187!^, 

J.    J.    MOTT, 

Collector,  Stalesville,  K.  C.  ; 
The  Attorney-General,  upon  the  recommendation  of  this  office,  telegrai)hs  District- 
Attorney  Lusk  this  day  to  allow  persons  guilty  of  violation  of  internal-revenue  laws, 
in  regard  to  distilled  spirits,  to  plead  guilty,  sentence  to  be  suspended  upon  payment 
(if  co.sts,  and  not  to  be  moved  for  excejit  in  case  of  future  violation.  This  is  not  to 
aiii)lv  U)  iiersons  who  have  been  guiltv  of  forcibly  resisting  internal-revenue  officers. 

■  '  H.  C.  RO(iERS, 

Jttiiig  Connnisaioner. 


TKEAsntv  Department, 
Office  of  Internal  Revenue, 

October  2(5,  1878. 

Sii;:  Jveferriug  to  telegram  sent  yesterday  informing  you  that  the  xlttorney-General 
had  instructed  United  States  Attorney  Lusk  to  consent  to  the  suspension  of  sentence 
in  cases  jiending  against  i>crsons  in  yoiir  district  for  violations  of  internal-revenue  law 
in  connection  with  distilled  s))irits^  I  have  to  inform  you  that  it  is  not  the  intention 
of  the  government  to  relax  its  efforts  in  i)r()secuting  its  work  for  the  sujipression  of 
the  i)ro(luction  of  and  tniftic  in  illicit  sjiirits  in  your  district,  and  I  desire  that  you 
now  iiress  youi-  opeiatiims  with  increased  vigor,  and  that  you  reorganize  your  force  of 
bjK'cial  deputy  collectors  and  thoroughly  police  your  whole  district. 

I  tliink  your  force  is  ami»le  for  this  i>ur})ose ;  if,  however,  you  need  any  further 
nieaus  advise  tliis  office  immediately. 

It  is  hoped  and  ex)tected  that  the  indulgence  granted  by  the  government  to  illicit 
distillers  for  i>ast  otlenses  will  have  a  salutary  etiect  in  your  district,  but  do  not  let  the 
for'tearance  of  the  government  to  luosccute  otfenders  for  the  past  be  misunderstood. 
Hereafter,  jiersons  who  engage  in  illicit  dislilling  will  be  jirosecuted  to  the  extent  of 
tlie  law. 

I  liave  directed  Revenue  Agent  ('h:ii»maii  1o  confer  and  co-operati^  with  you.  and 
friist  that  you  will  at  once  enter  with  renewed  vigor,  if  jios-sible,  upon  the  work  of 
^•ntirely  eradicating  li<uu  your  distriil  the  evil  of  illicit  distilling.  I  will  strengthen 
you  in  <!very  way  possiltle. 

I'lcase  n-poit  to  this  ofticc  \oiir  plans  and  ai  rimgcments  for  the  future  ar.d  I  will  be 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAKOLINA.  477 

glad  to  have  you  inforiu  ine  what  ertVct  theamuesty  granted  st-oiii.sto  produce  in  your 
part  of  the  State. 
Respectfully, 

H.  C.  ROGERS, 

A<  ting  ComminHioner. 
J.  J.  MOTT,  Esq., 

CoUi'clor  Inttninl  Jicrtniie,  Sl(i(esv>U/\  X.  ('. 


United  Statks  Intkrnal  Rkyknti:, 
CoLLECTou's  Office,  Sixth  Distkict  Noirm  Carolina, 

Statesi-'dle,  Janitar;/  31,  1^79. 

SiK  :  I  have  the  honoi"  to  call  your  attention  to  the  necessity  for  pronijit  action  in 
the  matter  of  the  retention  of  the  force  of  special  deputies  in  my  district,  and  the  con- 
tinuance of  the  allowance  for  the  "  detection  and  prevention  of  frauds,  &c." 

The  operations  of  the  special  deputies  duringthe  past  year,  aided  by  the  "allowance"' 
heretofore  made,  have  resulted,  as  may  be  seen  by  the  reports  rendered,  from  time  to 
time,  to  your  ofilice,  in  suppressing,  to  a  great  extent,  illicit  distillation  in  this  district, 
and  in  a  great  inci-ease  in  the  number  of  legally  operated  distilleries. 

On  January  1,  1676,  there  were,  on  the  records  in  this  district,  22  grain  distilleries 
in  operation,  and  26  grain  distilleries  under  suspension  and  in  charge  of  general  store- 
keepers, being  a  total  of  48.  To-day  these  same  records  show  96  distilleries  in  opera- 
tion, and  18  in  charge  of  general  storekeepers,  which,  with  39  whose  papers  are  ready, 
and  who  are  awaiting  qualification  of  storekeepers  for  assignment,  make  a  total  of 
155  legal  grain  distilleries  in  the  district ;  an  increase  of  107  distilleries  in  the  past 
year.  This  increase  has  been  mainly  since  September,  1878,  and,  I  think,  most  con- 
clusively demonstrates  the  value  and  etfectual  working  of  the  special  force  in  sup- 
pressing the  illicit  operations ;  and,  by  constant  and  continual  supervision,  forcing 
them  to  run  regularly,  or  not  at  all.  . 

The  partial  withdrawal  of  the  force,  on  January  1,  made  necessary  by  the  want  of 
funds,  has  become,  to  some  extent,  known,  notwithstanding  my  ettbrts  to  "  keep  up 
appearances,"  and  the  bad  effects  are  already  felt.  Those  who  have  been  "kept  un- 
der "  are  already  growing  bolder  and  defiant ;  and  I  am  within  the  past  two  weeks 
in  receipt  of  advices  from  sections  of  the  district,  from  which  I  Avould  conclude  that 
if  we  once  "  let  up"  on  these  violators  of  the  law,  their  lawlessness  will  be  renewed, 
probably  with  as  much  force  and  vigor  as  ever  ;  though  they  will  not  receive  the  ai(I 
and  comfort,  in  the  shape  of  public  opinion,  that  has  been  artbrded  them  heretofore. 

There  is  a  strong  feeling  now,  on  the  part  of  the  better  classes  of  society,  in  favor  of 
enforcing  the  revenue  laws ;  and  a  large  number  of  this  class  are  now  engaged  in 
legal  distillatiou,  and  prefer  to  be  as  long  as  the  law  is  enforced,  and  gives  theui  a 
fair  chance  in  the  trade. 

If  this  chance  is  not  aftbrded,  they  cannot,  of  course,  compete  with  the  illicit  deal- 
ers, and  will  naturally  fall  away  again  into  the  old  channels;  for  they  »'(7/  make 
whisky  one  way  or  the  other. 

We  will  lose,  in  a  short  time,  nearly  all  tlie  good  effect  of  what  has  been  done  in 
the  last  twelve  or  fifteen  months,  if  this  force  of  deputies  is  withdrawn. 

I  would  earnestly  recommen<l  that  every  eftbrt  be  made  towards  the  reorganization 
of  it,  that  it  may  continue  its  operations  at  as  early  a  date  as  possible. 
Very  respectfullv, 

J.  J.  MOTT,  Colledor. 

Hon.  G.  B.  Racm, 

Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue,   Washington,  I).  C. 


United  States  Internal  Revenue, 
Collector's  Office,  Sixth  Distkict  North  Carolina, 

SlatesviUe,  April  12,  1879. 
Sir:  I  have  the  honor  to  inform  you  that  I  am  in  receipt  of  a  report  from  Deputy 
Collector  Lillington,  at  Rutherfordtou,  informing  me  of  the  arrest  and  comuutment  to 
jail  of  certain  men  for  violations  of  the  internal-revenue  laws.  Ou  the  night  of  the 
9th  instant  one  Owens,  a  notorious  outlaw,  and  a  gang  of  armed  men  came  into  town 
to  attack  the  jail  and  release  the  prisoners.  They  failed  in  their  undertaking,  but 
information  is  obtained  that  they  will  make  further  efforts.  Deputy  Lillington, 
assisted  by  some  citizens,  have  been  and  are  still  guarding  the  jail. 

United  States  Commissioner  "Wilson  was  forced  by  Owens  at  his  (Wilson's)  house  to 
take  him  (Owens)  as  surety  on  the  l)oud,  and  to  sign  an  order  to  the  sheriff  for  the 
prisoners'  release.     Lillington,  knowing  the  circumstances,  opposed  the  order  and  pre- 


478  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

vented  the  escape.     Wilson  said  "  he  knew  the  bond  (f)  was  worthless,  but  he  took  it 
and  gave  the  order  in  fear  of  his  life." 

I  have  directed  Lillington  to  employ  force  to  guard  the  jail  and  arrest  Owens. 
I  have  to  request  that  you  authorize  payment  of  all  necessary  expenditures  to  per- 
sons employed  in  this  matter. 
Very  respectfully, 

J.  J.  MOTT,   Collector. 
Hon.  G.  B.  Eaum, 

Commissioner  of  Inttnto I  Fevenue,  IVoshington,  D.  C. 


United  States  Ixterxal  Revenue, 

Alexandria,  Va.,  April  18,  1879. 

Sir  :  I  would  respectfully  commend  to  your  favorable  notice  the  services  of  most  of 
the  men  who  have  been  employed  iu  the  special  service  in  the  sixth  North  Carolina 
district.  Although  they  were  aware  of  the  difficulties  in  the  waj'^  of  obtaining  pay 
for  their  services  during  the  months  of  January  and  February,  they  were  ready  at  any 
time  to  respond  to  the  call  of  the  collector  or  myself,  and  often  performed  services 
which  were  disagreeable  to  themselves  and  endangered  both  person  and  property. 
For  instance,  to  bear  out  my  statement,  I  refer  to  the  burning  of  A.  M.  Anderson's 
house  on  the  i?lst  March,  six  miles  from  Rocky  Creek,  in  Brushy  Slountain,  near  Hunt- 
ing Creek  post-office.  He  lives  in  a  section  which  had  been  notorious  for  illicit  dis- 
tilling, and  has  been  both  active  and  useful  iu  breaking  it  up.  The  house  was  fired 
by  an  incendiary  at  night,  during  his  aliseuce,  and  believed  to  be  instigated  by  illicit 
distillers.  During  the  mouth  of  January,  a  man  name  1  Yeague,  iu  Alexaiuler  County, 
who  had  been  active  in  the  same  way,  was  dragged  from  his  house  at  night  and 
severely  beaten  by  six  disguised  men ;  and  B.  F.  Yedder,  who  has  made  himself  obnox- 
ious to  the  illicit  distillers  in  his  section  by  working  with  Special  Deputy  Bryan  since 
last  "December,  was  informed  that  a  bullet  fired  at  one  Johnson  while  riding  aloue 
through  the  Brushy  Mountain  which  cut  his  hat  band,  was  intended  for  him.  If  they 
had  not  good  reason  to  believe  that  the  government  would  stand  by  its  officers  who 
honestl  V  and  faithfully  perform  their  duties,  these  things  would  occur  more  frequeutly. 
Very  respectfully,  W.  H.  CHAPMAN, 

Eeventic  Aijent. 

Hon.  Green  B.  R.\uji, 

Lommissiontr  of  Internal  Fevenue. 


United  States  Internal  Revenue, 
Collector's  Office,  "Sixth  District  North  Carolina, 

Statesrille,  December  10,  1879. 
Sir:  I  have  the  honor  to  report  receipt  this  day  of  a  communication  dated  8th  in- 
stant, fnun  Special  Deputy  A.  C.  Bryan,  whereby  I  am  informed  of  the  burning  of  his 
barn,  outbuildings.  Sac,  and  their  contents  (wagons,  harness,  grain,  feed,  Ac),  and 
an  attempt  to  burn  the  dwelling  house. 

Mr.  Bryan  is,  and  has  been  since  the  foruuition  of  the  force,  one  of  the  most  active 
and  efficient  of  niy  "specials."  I  placed  him  in  charge  of  the  ibrce,  and  lie  has  con- 
tinued in  the  position,  showing  himself  to  be  intelligent,  sober,  industrious,  and  worthy 
of  my  coulidence.  His  operations  (as  ha\e  those  of  all  the  special  force)  have  had  the 
ftfect  of  gaining  for  hiiu  and  thein  innch  notoriety  aiiiong  the  ''  blockatlers,"  and 
''threats  of  vengeance"  have  been  freely  niadi^  by  them. 

Tlu-  l)urning<»f  Mr.  Bryan's  property  is  but  the  consuinmation  of  threats  against  him, 
aiwl  tli(!  act  has  been  tixed  ui>on  two  men  who  are  being  pursued  and  who  may  be 
ca]»tur<Ml.     I  (|uote  IVoiii  IJryan's  letter : 

»»'•*']  fortunately  came  hoiiii-  last  night,  and  there  were  two  scoundrels  came 
ill  file  dead  liouis  of  the  uiglit  and  liii-d  my  barn  and  burned  all  my  fi'ed,  buggy,  har- 
ness, and  everything  there;  tlit-y  also  fired  my  dwelling,  l»ut  I  fortunately  \\al\ed  up 
aiul  Hiieceeded  in  saving  my  house.  »  »'  »  I  cut  down  their  (referring  to  the  incen- 
diatieH)  distiihsry  last  week,  and  this  is  for  revenge." 

I  desire  to  )»e  iiiforiiKMl  wlietlnir  there  is  any  way  by  which  Mr.  Bryan  can  be  repaid 
foi'  Ills  loss  in  his  case,  it  being  (ih^irly  caused  by  liis  strict  ix'rforinancc  of  liis  duties 
as  an  offjeer  in  the  internal-reyenne  si'ivice. 
Very  respect  full  v, 

.1.  .).  MOTT,  CoUvrtor. 
lion.  (;i!Ki:n'  W.  Kai'.m, 

t'linnuinxioner  of  Inlrnuil  llirtinic.    WKslinxilon ,  1>.  C. 

Aiijoilllinl    Id   liicci    in     MnrL:;illt(ill,   X.    (".,  oil    No\('1Ii1kM'  13,  1S82. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  479 

Note. — This  statement  should  follow  exhibit  8  on  page  5li. 

No.  G,  715.J  Treasury  Department, 

Fifth  Auditor's  Office, 

May  12,  1873. 

I  hereby  certify  that  I  liave  examined  and  adjusted  an  account  be- 
tween the  United  States  and  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  for  the  sixth  district 
of  Korth  Carolina,  from  October  1,  1872,  to  December  31,  1872,  for  sal- 
ary, commissions,  and  expenses,  and  find  him  entitled  to  credit  as  fol- 
lows : 

By  salary  for  said  period,  special  allowauce  dated  August  16,  1872 $750  00 

By  amount  deposited  during  said  period $82,492  00 

]3y  coniuiissions  on  8 ,  at  3  per  cent 

By  comnnssions  on  $ ,  at  I  per  cent 

By  commissions  on  $ ,  at  4  per  cent 

By  commissious  on  $ ,  at  i  per  cent 

By  commissions  on  $ ,  at  I  per  cent.,  being  amount  of  tax-paid  stamps 

sold  under  act  of  July  20,  1868,  as  per  books  of  coupons  tiled  with  the 

reven ue  account  for  said  period 

By  special  allowance  for  office  expenses I,  325  00 

By  stationery  and  blank  books 

By  postage 33  50 

B  V  express  and  depositing  money 8  90 

Advertising 12  0(1 

2, 129  40 

I  also  flntl  him  chargeable  as  follows  for  amounts  received  from  the 
collector  acting  as  disbursing  agent: 

For  salary,  for  commissions: 

Special  allowance  in  lieu  of §1,274  00 

Expenses  of  administering  office  for  said  period  as  reported  on 
Form  63,  tiled  herewith : 
Deputies,  $1,295;  clerks,  $450;  rent,  $60;  fuel,  $12;  lights,  $3; 

advertisements,  $ ;  miscellaneous,  $ .    Total,  $1,800. 

Balance  due  the  collector 855  40 

$2, 129  40 

The  said  balance  to  be  carried  to  the  credit  of  the  collector  as  dis- 
bursing agent  on  the  books  of  the  Register  of  the  Treasury. 

The  accounts  and  vouchers  are  herewith  transmitted  for  the  decision 
of  the  Comptroller  thereon. 

J.  H.  ELA,  Auditor. 

To  the  First  Comptroller  of  the  Treasury. 

[$855.40.]  Treasury  Department, 

Comptroller's  Office, 

June  2,  1873. 
I  admit  and  certify  that  eight  hundred  and  fifty-five  and  -^p-,-,  dollars 
are  due  and  to  be  credited  as  stated  in  the  above  report  under  bond 
dated  March  5,  1872. 

E.  W.  TAYLOR, 

ConqytroUer. 
To  the  Register  of  the  Treasury. 

STATEMENT    OF   DIFFERENCES. 

Balance  ])er  account  due  collector $1,  330  40 

Balance  found  per  adj ustmeut  due  collector 8.55  40 

Difference  to  collector's  debit ^ 475  00 


480  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Explained  thus: 

Expense3  of  office  charged  in  account $1,  ?W  00 

Expenses  of  office,  being  limit  of  special  allowance  credited  herein 1 ,  :i2')  00 

475  00 

Fifth  Auditor's  Office, 

Mmj  12,  1873. 


Examined  and  stated  by 


Examiued  and  reported  by 


E.  C.  CLAEKE. 

Comptroller's  Office, 

June  2,  1873. 

CHAS.  G.  BIGGS. 


Note. — This  statement  should  follow  Exhibit  11  on  page  51. 

No.  71G6.]  Treasury  Department, 

Fifth  Auditor's  Office, 

Oetoher  8,  1873. 

I  hereby  certify  that  I  have  examined  and  adjusted  an  account  be- 
tween the  United  States  and  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  for  the  sixth  district  of 
North  Carolina,  from  April  1,  1873,  to  June  30,  1873,  for  salary,  com- 
missions, and  expenses,  and  find  him  entitled  to  credit  as  follows : 

Bv  salary  for  said  period,  special  allowances  Augnst  16,  1872,  and  Jnue  23, 

1873.. -• $750  00 

By  amount  deposited  during  said  period $50,  049  37 

By  commissions  on  $ ,  at  3  per  cent 

By  commissions  on  $ ,  at  1  per  cent 

By  commissions  on  $ ,  at  i  per  cent 

By  commissions  on  $ ,  at  \  per  cent 

By  commissions  on  § ,  at  i  per  cent.,  being  amount  of  tax-paid  stamps 

sold  under  act  of  July  20,  1808,  as  per  books  of  coupons  filed  with  the 

revenue  account  for  said  period ' 

By  special  allowance  for  expenses  of  office 1,769  23 

By  stationery  and  blank  books 

By  postage '-^9  00 

By  express  and  depositing  money 15  59 

By  advertising "9  -i> 

2.t;53  07 

I  also  find  him  chargeable  as  follows  for  amounts  received  from  the 
collector  acting  as  disbursing  agent : 

l-'or  salary,  for  commissions: 

Special  allowance  in  lieu  of $2.  320  00 

'Expenses  of  administering  office  lor  said  ])eiiod  as  per  form  ()3 
filed  herewith : 

Deputies,  §2,200;  clerks,  !|650;  rent,  $00  ;  fuel,  $ ;  lights, 

$ ;  advertisements,!-^ ;  miscellaneous,!; -;  total, 

S2,'J10. 

Balance  due  the  collector 333  07 

$2, 653  07 

Tlic  said  halancc  to  be  carried  to  the  credit  of  tlie  collector  as  dis- 
bursing agent  on  the.  books  of  the  JTegister  ol' the  Treasury. 

'J'he  iU'couiits  anil  vouchers  arc  herewith  transmitted  for  the  decision' 
of  the  ( 'oinpt  rollei'  tlieicoii. 

.1.   II.  ELA,  Auditor. 

To  tllO  FiRS'l'    (JOMI'TROLLER   OF   THE   TREASURY. 

*  Expenses  of  office  are  unnecessarily  extravagant. 


the  sixth  district  of  north  carolina.  481 

$333.07.]  Treasury  Department, 

Comptroller's  Office, 

November  15,  1873. 
I  admit  and  certify  that  a  balance  of  three  hundred  and  thirty-three 
and  x^  dollars  is  due  and  to  be  credited  as  stated  in  the  above  rei^ort, 
under  bond  dated  March  5,  1872. 

WM.  HEMPHILL  JONES, 

Acting  Comptroller. 

To  tlie  liEGISTER  OF  THE  TREASURY. 

STATEMENT  OF  DIFFERENCES. 

Balance  claimed  per  account  due  collector $1, 488  84 

Balance  found  per  adjustment  due  collector 333  07 

Difference  to  collector's  debit 1, 1»5  77 

Explained  thus : 

Expenses  of  ofiQce  charged  in  account $2, 910  00 

Expenses  of  office  credited  herein,  being  limit  of  special  allowanc/e,  which 
the  collector  has  disregarded 1,  769  23 


1, 140  77 
J.  J.  Stt^wart's  bill  advertising,  suspended  for  locality  of  paper  and  rates  of 

advertising ;  voucher  returned  to  the  collector 15  00 


1, 155  77 


Examined  and  stated  by 


Examined  and  reported  by 
^   S.  Mis.  116 31 


Fifth  Auditor's  Office, 

October  8,  1873. 

E.  0.  CLARKE. 

Comptroller's  Office, 

November  15,  1873. 

CHAS.  G.  BIGGS. 


DOCUMENTARY  EVIDENCE. 


Senator  Vance  offers  in  evidence  tlie  following  reports  of  special 
agents : 

EXHIBITS. 

No.  4355. 

[United  States  Internal  Eevenne  Supervisor's  Office,  district  of  Virginias,  Caroliiias 

Georgia,  and  Florida.] 

Ealeigh,  May  2, 1874. 
Hon.  P.  W.  Perry, 

Stipervisor  Int.  Rev..,  Baleigh,  N.  C.  : 

Sir  :  I  have  the  honor  to  report,  as  the  result  of  my  attendance  on  the 
U.  S.  court  at  Statesville,  that  indictments  were  found  against  five 
(5)  ex-gangers  for  fraudulent  charges  in  their  p;iy  accounts.  Indict- 
ments were  also  found  against  two  tobacco  manufacturers  for  remov- 
ing tobacco  without  payment  of  tax,  and  one  for  giving  insufticient 
bond. 

Proceedings  in  rem  were  instituted  against  3  tobacco  factories  and 
against  one  farm  premises,  used  for  ingress  and  egress  to  an  illicit 
distillery.  In  addition  to  these  I  had  bills  against  seven  (7)  individ- 
uals, presented  for  trade  in  illicit  tobacco  and  spirits,  and  all  of  these 
failed  to  be  returned  as  true  bills,  because  the  witnesses  swore  falsely. 
I  also  caused  bills  of  indictment  to  be  presented  in  twenty-five  cases 
for  illicit  distilling,  but  was  not  able  to  ascertain  how  m^ny  of  these 
were  returned  as  true  bills. 

In  this  connection  I  will  state  that  I  ascertained  that  J.  A.  Clark, 
deputy  collector  and  chief  clerk  for  Collector  Mott,  made  up  all  the 
false  ganger's  bills  on  which  the  indictments  were  found  against  the 
five  gangers  mentioned  in  this  report ;  that  in  no  case  where  his  signa- 
ture was  attached  to  the  jurat  on  ganger's  bills  had  he  actually  admin- 
istered the  oath ;  that  in  many  cases  where  these  fraudulent  ganger's 
bills  were  sustained  by  false  and  forged  vouchers  the  vouchers  were 
written  by  this  Clark,  and  in  some  instunces  the  signatures  forged  by 
him,  and  that  for  the  past  year  he  has  been  one  of  the  sureties  on  a 
distiller's  bond.  My  proof  of  these  facts  was  incontestable,  and  I 
earnestly  recommended  the  district  attorney  to  move  for  his  indict- 
ment, but  he  declined. 

I  also  intended  to  present  a  bill  against  A.  M.  Rhyne,  formerly  store- 
keeper, for  being  interested  in  a  distillery  when  assigned  to  the  same 
distillery  as  U.  S.  store-keeper,  but  I  ascertained  that  I  should  be  able 
at  next  term  of  court  to  present  him  for  illicit  distillation,  and  concluded 
it  was  best  to  wait  until  next  term  and  bring  both  charges  at  once. 
Very  respectfully,  your  ob't  serv't, 

A.  M.  CRANE, 

Rev.  Agent. 


484  collection  of  internal  revenue  in 

United  States  Internal  Revenue  Supervisor's 

Office,  District  of  Virginias,  Carolinas, 
Georoia,  and  Florida, 
lialeigh,  Maij  2d,  1874. 

Hon.  P.  W.  Perry, 

Supervisor  Int.  Rev.,  Raleigh,  N.  G. : 
Sir:  1  have  the  honor  to  report,  as  the  result  of  my  attendance  upon 
court  at  Greensboro',  N.  C.,  that  indictments  were  found  in  twelve  (12) 
cases  for  violation  of  internal -re  venue  laws.  Proceedings  in  rem  were 
begun  against  two  (2)  tobacco  factories  and  one  wholesale  liquor  dealer's 
establishment.  In  addition  to  the  foregoing,  I  was  assisting  in  the  pre- 
sentation of  bills  of  indictment  against  some  twenty  (20)  or  twenty-five 
(25)  persons  in  Randolph  County,  N.  C,  for  illicit  distilling.  Of  all  the 
bills  of  indictment  found  at  this  term  of  court  fully  one-half  were  the 
result,  either  directly  or  indirectly,  of  my  exertions. 
Very  respectfully, 

A.  M.  CRANE, 

Rev.  AgH, 


United  States  Internal  Revenue  Supera^isor's 

Office,  District  of  Virginias,  Carolinas, 

Georgia,  and  Florida, 
Raleigh,  N.  C,  May  4, 1874. 

Hon.  J.  W.  Douglass, 

Commissioner  Int.  Revenue,  Washington,  D.  G. : 
Sir:  I  inclose  herewith  for  your  information  copies  of  two  reports  of 
Rev.  Agent  A.  M.  Crane  in  relation  to  the  transactions  of  the  U.  8. 
court  at  Statesville  and  Greensboro',  N.  C. 
Very  respectfully,  your  ob't  servant, 

P.  W.  PERRY, 

Supervisor. 
T.  W.  B. 


No.  4933. 


United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

Grenshoro\  N.  G.,  Sept.  5^,1878. 

Sir:  I  have  the  lionor  to  report  that  I  have  for  sometime  past 
been  engaged  in  an  investigation  of  the  acts  of  certain  ])ersons  near 
Morgantown,  in  Ctli  district  of  N.  C,  among  them  R.  A.  Cobb, 
U.  S.  store-keiqier  and  ganger;  D.  C.  Pearson,  clerk  liurke  County 
SU])erior  court;  Terrill  Ilndson,  Hudson,  -loiinson  «&  Co.,  and  Huff- 
man &  Co.,  dislillcis,  all  of  whom  are  and  have  been  engaged,  sever- 
ally and  in  combination,  to  defraud  the  revenue  m  uidawfiilly  removing 
8i)iVit8,  refilling  empty  stamped  casks,  and  i-eusing  si)irit  stami)s  with 
the  result  of  seciiring  what  api)cars  to  be  con(;lusvie  evidence  of  their 
guilt,  lieing  alxiut  to  leave  tiiis  district,  I  have  placed  this  evidence 
iu  the  hunds. jointly  of  collector  J.  J.  Mott  and  revenue  agent  Chap- 
man, to  be  used  in  seizing  ])roj>erty  and  bringing  the  oifenders  to 
]n]nisliment. 

Collector  Mott  is  very  indignant  at  the  eondnct  of  stcn-e  keei)er  Cobb, 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OP    NORTH    CAROLINA.  485 

who  has  thus  grossly  betrayed  his  confidence,  and  is  disposed  to  press 
the  case  against  hini  and  his  associates.  [  trust  tliat  he  may  be  in- 
structed to  cause  his  immediate  removal  from  office,  and  that  prose- 
cution be  instituted  against  him,  as  he  has  been  the  leading  spirit  iu 
the  frauds,  and  that  Mr.  Chapman  may  be  advised  of  the  importance 
of  immediate  action  in  these  cases. 
Very  respectfully, 

JACOB  WAGNER, 

Revenue  Af/ent. 
Hon.  Green  B.  Kaum, 

Commissioner  Int.  liev.,  Washington,  1>.  C. 


United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

Greensboro',  N.  C,  Aug.  20th,  1878. 
Sir:  In  answer  to  your  letter  of  the  24th  instant,  initialed  "  W.  H. 
H."  and  "E.  M.  T.,"  referring  to  an  investigation  of  the  charges  against 
certain  officers  of  the  6th  dist.,  N.  C,  preferred  by  John  Carpenter,  I 
have  the  honor  to  state  that  the  investigation  has  been  progressing  for 
some  time  past,  and  that  I  visited  John  Carpenter  at  his  house  at 
Knob  Creek  last  week.  As  speedily  as  possible  the  investigation  will 
be  completed  and  the  report  forwarded. 
Very  respectfully, 

JACOB  WAGNER, 

Revenue  Agent. 
Hon.  Green  B.  Raum, 

Commissioner. 


No.  8552. 


Treasury  Department, 

Office  of  Internal  Revenue, 

Washington,  July  2P,  1879. 
W.  H.  Chapman,  Esq., 

Revenue  Agent,  Statesville,  N.  C. 
Sir  :  Information  has  been  received  at  this  office  that  at  or  near  the 
village  of  Dallas,  Gaston  Co.,  N.  C,  legal  distilleries  are  being  con- 
ducted on  what  is  known  as  the  mutual  benefit  plan — that  is,  store- 
keepers, in  order  to  procure  assignments,  start  new  distilleries  and  keep 
them  running,  dividing  their  salaries  with  the  owners  of  the  distilleries, 
and  that  men  are  to  be  found  there  who  have  two  or  three  distilleries 
running  within  short  distances  of  each  other  on  this  princii»le.  It  is 
also  alleged  that  the  low  price  at  which  the  spirits  of  such  distillei-ies 
are  sold  prevents  honest  dealers  from  competing,  thus  raising  a  presump- 
tion of  fraud  on  the  part  of  both  distiller  and  ofllcer. 

These  allegations,  if  true,  involve  a  serious  abuse  in  the  j^ublic  serv- 
ice, and  you  are  directed  to  make  immediately  a  thoroujiU  and  ener- 
getic investigation  of  the  whole  subject  and  report  the  result  to  this 
office. 

Respectfully, 

GREEN  B.  RAI  M, 

ConDuissioner. 


486  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

United  States  Internal  Revenue, 
Collector's  Office  District  of  South  Carolina, 

Dallas,  N.  C,  Aug.  8th,  1879. 
Hon.  Green  B.  Raum, 

Commissioner  of  Int.  Revenue. 
Sir  :  I  hav^e  the  liouor  to  submit  the  following  report  of  my  investi- 
gations in  accordance  with  yonr  instructions  contained  in  office  letter 
dated  the  28th  ulto.,  initialed  "C.  W.  E."  and  "M.  M.  B."  I  reached 
this  county  (Gaston)  on  the  31st  ult.,  and  have  traveled  over  the  greater 
part  of  it,  as  well  as  parts  of  Cleveland,  Lincoln,  and  Mecklenburg 
Counties,  visiting  distilleries,  U.  S.  store-keepers,  and  gangers,  and 
others  iu  pursuing  the  investigations  I  am  instructed  to  make.  To 
enable  you  more  fully  to  understand  the  condition  of  things,  it  will  be 
necessary  to  refer  briefiy  to  the  causes  which  led  to  the  establishing 
of  so  many  legal  distilleries  in  this  dist.  As  a  means  of  preventing  the 
illicit  production  of  spirits  in  the  collection  districts  of  S.  C.  and  Gth 
N.  C,  Collectors  Bray  ton  and  Mott  and  myself  were  instructed  to  en- 
courage the  establishing  of  legal  distilleries,  and  as  the  people  of  the 
districts  had  been  encouraged  by  democratic  politicians  in  their  belief 
that  the  revenue  laws  were  made  in  the  interests  of  the  rich  man  alone, 
and  that  the  government  meant  to  oppress  them,  the  most  liberal  inter- 
pretation of  the  law  was  allowed  them  in  the  construction  and  running 
of  tlieir  distilleries.  About  four  bus.  per  day  was  fixed  upon  as  the 
minimum  capacity  upon  which  a  distillery  would  be  allowed  to  run.  It 
was  allowed  by  Collector  Mott,  and  I  think  by  Collector  Bray  ton,  too, 
that  the  distiller,  among  others,  might  recommend  a  man'in  good  stand- 
ing in  his  community,  who  could  give  the  reipiired  bond,  and  he  would 
recommend  his  appointment  as  store-keeper  and  ganger  and  have  him 
assigned  to  his  distillery.  The  endorsement  of  the  api)licant  by  the  best 
peo})le  in  his  neighborhood  and  the  bond  of  .$2(),00()  whicli  was  required 
was  tliought  to  be  good  security,  though  it  was  ai)prehended  at  the  time 
that  tliis  privilege  might  be  abused,  but  the  collector  concluded  it  was 
best  to  get  them  started,  and  correct  the  abuse  afterwards  if  it  did 
occur.  The  imtural  advantages  which  tliis  section  of  country  affords,  the 
education  of  the  people  to  the  business,  the  encouragement  offered  by 
the  department,  together  with  the  vigilance  of  the  special  deputies  and 
other  revenue  olTicers  in  breaking  u})  illicit  distilleries  caused  the  es- 
tablishing of  many  legal  distilleries  all  over  tliis  district,  and  some  in 
S.  C.  Soon  a  stock  of  whisky  began  to  accumulate  on  the  hands  of 
the  distillers,  many  of  whom  were  unable  to  hold  and  unwilling  to  sell 
at  the  i)ri(;es  offered  them  by  the  w.  1.  d's,  conscipiently  began  to 
look  out  for  other  modes  of  making  sales.  They  obtained  retail  license, 
and  sell  dire(;tly  to  consumers  or  any  one  else,  in  (luantities  less  than 
live  gallons,  at  the  same  price,  and  sometimes  k;ss  than  they  ask  for  the 
sauMi  article  in  stamped  casks.  They  have  undersold  the  wholesale 
<!<';. lers  and  (•(>nse(juently  iiijnicd  their  business,  causing  considerable 
Jealousy  on  tln-ii-  part;  ha\ing  ample  li.  It.  facilities  in  Gaston  Co., 
thi'V  hav<i  sent  it  in  cvei-y  direction.  N'arions  icports  were  i)ut  in  cir- 
cnlrtion  as  to  tlir  rt^asons  why  disiillcis  could  afford  to  sell  at  their 
pi  lees,  from  !!(1  .■>()  down  to  as  low  as  >il  pc^r  gal.,  in  some  instances, 
will  n  they  were  rcMiuircd  to  pay  tlu'  !•(> ct.  tax.  It  was  first  reported 
tluit  they  obtaiiK'd  whisky  direct ly  from  illicit  dist illciies  and  refilled 
their  stamped  biurels;  that  report  <-oiild  not  l)e  sustained  because  the 
illi'-it  ilislilleries  could  not  be  foiiiid  in  t  hat  sect  ion.  It  was  then  <'ir- 
cukited  that  the  store  keepers  were  allowing  t  heir  (list  illciies  to  keep 
exce.sM  of  2  gals,    made    iVoiii    e\civ  Itiisliel   ol'  grain.     This   report  was 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  487 

without  foundation,  as  the  excess  which  they  could  possibly  make 
would  not  have  supplied  the  tenth  part  of  the  amount  sold,  and  be- 
sides would  have  iuvolvea  one-half  of  the  store-keepers  in  the  dis- 
trict, many  of  whom  are  men  of  irreproachable  character.  The  next 
report  circulated  was  that  the  store-keepers  were  dividing  their  pay 
with  the  distillers  in  order  to  get  assignments,  which  enabled  the 
distiller  to  put  his  whisky  upon  the  market  at  a  lower  price  than 
the  honest  dealer  could  afford.  When  these  reports  started,  the 
collector  assigned  Dep'y  Jewett  to  the  division  comj^osed  of  Gaston 
and  Cleveland  Co's,  with  instructions  to  make  thorough  investigations 
into  these  alleged  violations  and  abuses,  and  refused  himself  to  recom- 
mend the  appointment  or  assignment  of  any  man  asked  for  by  a  distil- 
ler. 1  have  made  a  thorough  investigation  of  this  matter,  and  have 
concluded  that  while  there  is  no  positive  evidence  that  any  store-keeper 
has  divided  his  pay  with  the  distiller,  there  are  circumstances  which 
warrant  the  presumption  that  some  of  the  store-keepers,  in  order  to  se- 
cure an  assignment  did  enter  into  an  arrangement  of  some  kind  with 
the  distiller,  but  when  the  time  came  to  divide  the  store-keeper  declined. 
Where  the  contracts  were  carried  out,  if  any  were,  we  have  no  means 
of  getting  the  evidence.  If  they  were  not  carried  out  the  evidence  that 
they  existed  is  only  circumstantial.  I  think  that  much  circulation  has 
been  given  to  the  report  by  some  of  the  distillers  saying  publicly  that 
they  would  not  run  unless  they  had  a  st'k.  &  g.  who  would  divide.  J. 
W.  Beaty,  owner  of  distillery  No.  1290,  suspended  about  the  1st  of  June, 
declaring  he  would  not  run  unless  the  store-keeper  would  give  him  part 
of  his  wages.  In  about  ten  days  he  resumed  operations  with  the  same 
store-keeper.  Dep.  Col.  Jewett  went  to  the  distillery  to  investigate, 
when  another  suspension  took  place  for  one  week,  then  commenced 
again,  and  is  in  operation  now.  The  impression  was  created  with  the 
neighborhood  that  the  st'k,  &  g.  had  acceded  to  the  distiller's  terms  al- 
though both  deny  it.  I  visited  the  distillery  on  the  Cth  inst.  but  Store- 
keeper A.  E.  Abernathey  was  sick,  and  found  W.  R.  Rankins  acting  for 
him.  J.  J.  Biggerstafl',  who  owns  distillery  No.  1367,  told  Store-keeper 
L.  C.  Ford,  when  he  went  to  take  charge  of  his  distillery,  alter 
being  assigned  there,  that  two  store-keepers,  G.  W.  McLaughn  and 
J.  K.  Lewis,  had  been  to  see  him  about  starting  his  distillery  and 
had  offered  to  divide  their  pay,  and  that  he  must  do  the  same,  as  it 
was  customary.  Ford,  being  a  new  man,  replied  that  he  was  not 
aware  of  that,  but  would  inquire  about  it  and  do  what  was  custom- 
ary. He  went  to  G.  W.  McKee,  U.  S.  st'k.  &  g.,  who  told  him  that  it 
was  illegal  and  not  customary,  and  that  he  could  not  subscribe  to  the 
oath  on  his  pay  account  if  he  did  that.  Ford  went  back  to  the  distil- 
lery, and  is  there  yet.  Lewis  and  McLaughn  both  deny  that  they  ever 
made  any  proposition  to  him,  and  Lewis  says  he  made  the  same  asser- 
tion to  him  concerning  McLaughn.  The  presumption  is  that  the  dis- 
tiller supposed  the  store-keeper  would  accede  to  his  demand  without 
objecting.  John  A.  Keener,  st'k.  &  g.,  makes  a  statement  that  P.  M. 
Carpenter,  owner  of  distillery  No.  1320,  susi)ended  his  distillery  while 
he  was  store-keeper  for  him,  because  he.  Keener,  refused  to  carry  out 
an  arrangement  which  Carpenter  says  was  made  between  himself  and 
John  Rutledge,  Keener's  predecessor.  Said  arrangement  was  that  he 
was  to  ask  for  Rutledge  assignment  to  his  distillery,  and  that  Rutledge 
agreed  to  give  him  $2  per  <lay  after  the  tirst  two  months.  Rutledge 
was  assigned  to  R.  M.  Jenkins  and  Co.,  distillery  No.  1210,  and  Keener 
assigned  from  Jenkins  to  Carpenter's.  At  the  expiration  of  a  month 
Carpenter  suspended,  and  Keener  thinks  his  refusal  to  comply  with  his 


488  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

demand  was  the  reason.  Eutledge  denies  that  any  such  agreement 
was  ever  made  between  himself  and  Carpenter,  and  Carpenter  will 
neither  admit  nor  deny  that  he  did.  I  have  a  list  of  names  which  1  will 
refer  to  the  collector,  recommending  a  change  of  their  assignments. 
Indeed,  a  general  change  of  assignments  in  the  dist.  would  no  doubt 
have  a  wholesome  effect. 
Very  respectfully, 

W.  H.  CHAPMAN, 

Revenue  Agent. 


Confidential.]  Wilkesboro',  N.  C,  6^^  Bist.^  Bee.  29th,  1879. 

Hon.  John  Sherman  : 

I  wrote  you  some  time  since,  under  the  signature  of  James  Johnson, 
concerning  some  revenue  frauds  that  are  being  practiced  on  the  gov- 
ernment by  officers  and  distillers  of  this  district,  but  as  yet  no  action 
has  been  taken  by  the  government. 

Some  time  since  a  raiding  party  came  into  our  county  and  seized  380 
gall,  of  black  whisky,  the  property  of  Riddle,  Parker  and  Saunders. 
Their  neighbors  say  the  whisky  was  made  in  their  government  dis- 
tillery while  under  suspension,  with  over  two  thousand  gallons  of 
whisky  in  the  warehouse. 

■  Theophilus  Smith  was  on  duty  at  said  distillery  as  U.  S.  store-keeper 
at  the  time.  This  seems  to  be  a  glaring  fact,  but  I  have  heard  nothing 
of  said  store-keeper  being  discharged  from  service. 

There  are  frauds  being  prepetrated  on  the  gov.  in  every  conceivable 
manner,  and  I  will  never  cease  to  expose  them  until  J.  J.  Mott  and  his 
gang  are  thrown  out  of  office.  If  I  can  get  no  assistance  from  gov. 
officials  I  will  appeal  to  Congress. 

These  Democratic  vultures  shall  not  eat  out  the  vitals  of  the  gov't, 
and  threaten  to  tyrannize  over  Republicans  who  dare  oppose  then>.  If 
you  will  send  Mr.  Kellogg  to  Wilkesboro'  to  remain  a  week,  there  will 
be  witnesses  pointed  out  to  him  who  will  testify  that  U.  S.  storekeep- 
ers  have  assisted  in  removing  whisky  from  the  cistern  room  to  the 
private  dwellings  of  the  distillers. 

I  think  Kellogg  must  be  all  right  from  the  way  Mott  had  his  deputies 
cutting  down  the  tubs  of  the  gov.  distillers  when  he  learned  he  was  to 
take  the  place  of  Col.  Chapman.  Capt.  J.  S.  Peden,  de]^t.  coll.,  was 
at  work  in  this  county  for  a  week  before  Kellogg  came,  had  all  of  them 
right    when  he  arrived,  but  had  taken  them  down  from  J(»  to  L'O  inches. 

Send  Kellogg  to  J.  R.  Henderson's,  2  miles  from  Wilkesboro',  &  1  think 
he  can  get  some  valuable  information  ;  they  tried  to  ruin   him  because 
he  threatened  to  report  some  of  them.     I  will  meet  him  there.     Send  a 
copy  of  this  letter  to  Kellogg,  and  the  Commissioner. 
Yours,  truly, 

JAMES  JOHNSON. 

TiiioAsu It Y  Department, 

Prcrmlirr  1«>,  1S70. 
Ji('spe((riill\   iclericd  lo  the  CoMiniissioner  of  Internal  lJe\enue. 

J.  K.  ri'roN, 

Chief  Cleric. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  489 

No.  1821. 

United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

Charlotte,  N.  C,  Jan.  7,  1880. 

Hon.  Green  B.  Kaum, 

Commissioner,  Washington,  T).  C.  : 

Sir  :  lu  compliance  with  your  letter  of  Dec.  22d,  F.  U.  S.  (containing- 
copy  of  a  letter  purporting  to  have  been  written  by  James  Mason,  com- 
plaining of  frauds  in  the  Gth  dist.,  N.  C),  and  directing  me  to  investi- 
gate the  matters  complained  of,  I  have  the  honor  to  submit  the  follow- 
ing report : 

I  visited  the  house  of  J.  K.  Henderson,  as  requested  in  the  letter,  ancf 
found  that  James  Mason  and  J.  R.  Henderson  were  one  and  the  same 
person  ;  that  all  the  letters  written  and  signed  "James  Mason"  were 
written  by  J.  R.  Henderson.  He  reiterated  all  the  charges  made  in  his 
letters  against  Collector  Mott,  and  his  officers,  but  absolutely  refused 
to  appear  as  a  witness  against  them,  nor  could  he  give  the  names  of 
any  reliable  witnesses  as  to  the  charges  lie  makes.  The  only  course  he 
could  suggest  was  to  subpoena  certain  parties  before  the  grand  jury, 
and  he  thought  they  would  substantiate  what  he  said.  The  names  of 
all  the  parties  he  suggested,  with  one  or  two  exceptions,  are  old  offend- 
ers of  the  revenue  laws.  I  lind,  also,  that  Henderson  has  been  indicted 
for  illicit  stilling,  and  has  taken  the  benefit  of  the  "Amnesty  proclam- 
ation." I  learn,  also,  that  he  has  been  an  applicant  for  an  office  under 
Coll'r  Mott  for  a  long  time.     So  much  for  Henderson. 

As  to  the  charges  he  makes,  I  have  no  doubt  that  some  of  them  are 
true.  As  to  the  charge  that  store-keejiers  are  dividing  their  salaries 
with  distillers,  I  could  only  learn  that  such  things  were  charged  in  a 
general  way ;  but  no  specific  case  could  be  cited.  This  is  a  difficult 
thing  to  ascertain,  as  both  distiller  and  store-keeper  would  deny  it. 

As  to  the  charge  that  the  majority  of  Collector  Mott's  officers  are 
Democrats,  I  find  upon  investigation  that  about  one-fourth  of  his  offi- 
cers were  Democrats  when  appointed.  The  reason  of  making  these- 
appointments  Coll'r  Mott  gives  is,  that  it  is  difficult  to  find  Republicans^ 
that  are  qualified.  This  may  be  the  case  in  some  instances,  but  I  think 
they  are  rare.  I  have  my  doubts  as  to  the  propriety  of  appointing 
Democrats,  for  I  do  not  find  them  as  attentive  to  their  duties  as  the 
Republican  officers  are. 

As  to  the  charges  that  Collector  Mott  is  in  collusion  with  violators  of 
the  revenue  law,  or  allows  violations  to  go  unnoticed,  1  see  nothing  to 
warrant  such  a  conclusion. 

Mr.  Henderson  certainly  has  not  a  very  great  regard  for  the  suppres- 
sion of  frauds,  as  he  distinctly  stated  t(>  me  that  he  did  not  tliink  it 
wrong  to  lun  an  illicit  distillery,  and  that  he  would  not  inform  against 
any  man  for  violations  of  the  revenue  laws.  His  Jiylit  api)ears  to  be 
more  against  Collector  JMott  and  his  officers  than  any  desire  that  thcr 
laws  should  be  susrained. 

While  I  am  convinced  that  in  some  instances  store-keepers  have  been 
guilty  of  neglect  of  duty,  and  have  allowed  distillers  to  defraud  the- 
governmeur,  I  do  not  think  Collector  Mott  woidd  desire  to  shield  them 
from  punishment. 

Respectfully  submitted, 

HORACE  KELLOGG, 

Revenue  A(/int^ 


490  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

No.  0584. 

United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

Greensboro\  N.  C,  December  17,  1880. 
Hon.  Green  B.  Raum, 

Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue^  Washington^  J).  C: 

Sir  :  Referring  to  your  letter  of  Nov.  22n<l,  initialed  "  F.  D.  S."  & 
^'  W.  T.  C,"  in  regard  to  the  excessive  cost  of  collecting  the  tax  on  dis- 
tilled spirits  in  this  section,  and  inquiring  if  intelligent  men,  such  as 
are  in  every  respect  qualitied  to  discharge  the  duties  inciuibent  upon 
store-keepers  and  gangers  cannot  be  obtained  at  a  salary  of  three  dol- 
lars per  day ;  also  asking  for  information  respecting  the  truthfulness 
of  reports  made  to  your  oflice  to  the  effect  that  some  store-keepers  & 
^augers  in  the  6th  dist.  N.  C  divide  their  pay  with  the  distillers,  or 
are  directly  or  indirectly  interested  in  the  distilleries  to  wliicli  tliey  are 
assigned  to  duty : 

In  reply,  I  have  the  honor  to  state  that  to  make  a  satisfactory  report 
upon  the  subjects  above  referred  to  I  would  require  a  much  longer  time 
than  I  could  feel  justified  in  delaying  an  answer  to  your  letter.  Since 
the  receipt  of  your  letter  I  have  made  inquiry  in  regard  to  the  charges 
against  storekeepers  and  gangers,  but  have  been  unable  t©  obtain  any 
proof  sustaining  said  charges;  yet  I  am  inclined  to  believe  there  is 
some  truth  in  the  charges  made  against  said  officers,  not  only  applicable 
to  officers  in  the  6th  dist.,  but  in  this  and  other  southern  districts.  You 
are  probably  aware  that  in  startiuii-  registered  distilleiies  in  this  section 
the  collectors  and  their  subordinates  in  many  cases  had  to  use  con- 
siderable persuasion  to  satisfy  the  distillers  that  their  object  in  getting 
to  operate  registered  distilleries  was  not  for  the  purpose  of  getting  them 
in  trouble  with  the  government,  for  at  the  time  many  of  the  distillers 
had  this  idea.  For  the  purpose  of  iuspiring  confidence  in  the  distillers 
no  doubt  their  friends  or  persons  in  whom  the  distillers  had  confidence 
have  been  recommended  for  the  position  of  store-keeper  and  gauger,  and 
assigned  to  duty,  as  per  request  of  distiller. 

In  many  cases  store-keepers  and  gaugers  board  with  the  distillers, 
and  it  is  said  that  these  officers  i)ay  one-half  their  salary  for  board,  when 
other  people  not  interested  in  the  distillery  business  would  board  them 
for  ten  dollars  a  month.  All  these  distilleries  are  very  small,  and  can 
be  closed  with  little  or  Jio  loss  to  the  distiller,  thus  stopping  the  pay  of 
the  store-keeper  and  gauger,  so  that  in  a  country  like  this,  where  so 
nuijiy  of  such  officers  are  emi)loyed,  I  should  not  be  surprised  to  find 
some  who  would  comply  with  the  wishes  or  <lemands  of  the  distillers  in 
order  to  draw  ])ay  from  the  government.  I  hear  of  an  ex-store-keeper 
and  gauger,  foriru'rly  of  the  4th  dist.  N.  C,  who  says  he  managed  to 
draw  his  jiay  as  store-keejx'.r  and  gauger  by  furnishing  the  distiller  four 
1)ms1m'1s  of  corn-meal  ])er  day,  the  amount  of  grain  required  to  run  the 
<listill('ry.  The  starting  of  two  registered  <listilleries  only  a  few  feet 
ai)ait,  both  owned  by  tiie  same  jteison,  where  one  would  answer  all  pur- 
poses, so  far  as  capacity  isconcerne<l,  looks  to  me  as  if  the  distiller  found 
two  stole- keep<us  and  gaug(.'r.s  nu)r(;  profitable  than  one,  but,  as  before 
stated,  the  facts  in  thes<^  cas<'s  are  hai'd  to  get  at.  Revenue  Agent  Kel- 
logg informs  me  that  while  on  (lut.\'  in  this  State  some  mouths  ago  he 
en<l(';i\'or('d  {o  juocnre  evidcMicc  against  some  of  the  store-ktM'pers  and 
gangers  suspected  of  dividing  their  pay  with  the  <listillers,  but  was  un- 
able to  do  so, 

in  n-gard  to  ledueing  I  lie  pay  of  st  ore-keepers  and  gaiigei'S  in  these 
distiiets  to  three  dollars  per  day,  I  Inive  to  say  that  in  my  o|>inion  just 
as  good  men  as  thuse  now  em[)loyed  can  bo  secured  at  that  iigure,  and 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  491 

few,  if  any,  of  tlie  force  now  eiiii)loye<l  would  be  teini)te(l  to  resign  vShould 
their  pay  be  reduced  to  three  dollars  i)er  day,  but  I  am  not  i)repare(l  to 
say  tliat  it  wouhl  be  to  the  best  interests  of  the  service  to  reduce;  their 
X)ay  to  that  ti,i>ure.  1  thiidv,  however,  tliat  it  wouhl  be  well  to  start 
store-keepers  and  j;augers  iu  this  section  at  three  dollars  per  day,  and  in- 
crease their  pay  as  their  services  increased  in  value  to  the  oovernnient. 

I  believe  that  cousideral)le  spirits  ])roduced  at  re;:;istered  distilleries  in 
these  districts  is  lenioved  without  payment  of  tax,  and  that  if  it  were 
possible  to  look  after  these  distilleries  one-half  as  sharply  as  distilleries 
in  other  sections  of  the  country  are  looked  after,  I  believe  the  increased 
amount  of  si)irits  returned  for  taxation  would  do  more  to  reduce  the  cost 
of  (iollection  than  reducing  the  pay  of  officers  would  accomplish. 

The  i^osition  of  store-kee])er  and  ganger  at  a  distillery  running  four 
bushels  a  day,  located  in  out  of-the-way  places,  as  most  of  these  distille- 
ries are,  is  a  dull  business,  and  the  chances  of  a  visit  from  an  agent  are 
so  slim  that  it  is  not  surprising  that  these  officers  gooff  and  leave  their 
distilleries  while  iu  operation,  as  1  am  iuformed  and  believe  is  fre- 
quently the  case. 

It  is  impossible  fcu'  the  agent  in  charge  of  a  division  like  this  to  visit 
distilleries  often  and  attend  to  the  many  other  duties  assigned  him.  I 
think  the  agent  of  this  division  ought  to  have  two  or  three  competent 
gaugers  assigned  to  special  duty  under  him,  who  should  be  kei)t  visit- 
ing and  examining  registered  distilleries  and  inspecting  the  officers  at 
distilleries. 

The  deputy  collectors,  in  some  cases,  have  more  distilleries  in  their 
divisions  than  they  can  pro])erly  attend  to. 

In  my  opinion,  one  visit  from  an  agent  or  officer  on  special  duty  un- 
der him  will  do  more  good  than  several  visits  from  the  local  officer. 

I  believe  it  is  conceded  by  all  ])ersons  having  a  knowledge  of  the  dis- 
tillery business  here,  that  the  visits  of  the  special  force  of  agents  and 
gaugers  who  examined  the  distilleries  in  this  State  some  mouths  ago 
had  an  excellent  effect  on  both  officers  and  distillers. 

I  think  the  assignments  of  store-keepers  and  gaugers  ought  to  be 
changed  occasionally,  and  that  if  these  officers  and  their  work  could  be 
inspected,  and  the  distilleries  examined  frequently,  great  good  would 
result  to  the  government. 

Iiegretting  my  inability  to  give  you  at  this  time  more  definite  informa- 
tion on  the  subjects  referred  to  in  your  letter, 
I  am,  very  respectfully, 

A.  H.  BROOKS,  ■ 

Revenue  Agent. 

[Note  appended  to  this  report  iu  lead  pencil.] 

"  Gen'I  Clark  :  See  remarks  of  Brooks  on  p.  7  in  re'  to  transfer  of 
store-keeper.     I  think  it  would  be  a  good  plan  to  make  Mott  do  so. 

"  F.  D.  S." 


Xo.  GSl. 

United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

Greemhoro\  N.  C,  Jan.  3,  1881. 
Hon.  Green  B.  Raum, 

Conwiissioner  of  Infernal  Revenue,  Washinyfon,  D.  C.  : 
Sir  :  I  have  the  honor  to  report  that  I  have  in  my  possession  several 
affidavits  of  officers  in  the  0th  dist.  in  this  State,  charging  Collector 


492  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Mott  with  uiilawfally  withholding  certain  moneys  due  theuj  for  servicci 
performed  the  government,  etc.  Some  of  these  affidavits  have  been  in 
my  possession  several  weeks.  I  have  not  investigated  tliem  for  two 
reasons:  First,  for  tlie  reason  that  my  time  has  been  so  fully  occn])ied 
with  other  and  more  important  business;  second,  for  the  reason  that 
when  I  have  been  able  to  spare  a  day  Collector  Mott  has  been  absent. 
lu  mj  opinion  Collector  Mott  should  have  an  opportunity  of  meeting 
the  parties  who  have  made  these  affidavits  before  same  aj-e  forwarded, 
and  I  have  been  waiting  for  an  opportunity  of  investigating  the  case 
this  way. 

It  will  probably  be  two  or  three  weeks  before  I  cau  take  the  matter 
up.     I  understand  now  that  Collector  Mott  has  resigned.     If  this  be 
true,  I  would  respectfully  request  to  be  informed  what,  if  any,  action 
you  desire  me  to  take  in  regard  to  these  affidavits. 
Very  respectfully, 

A.  H.  BROOKS, 

Revenue  Agent. 


No.  682. 


United  States  Internal  Eevenue, 

Greensboro',  N.  C,  Jan.  3,  1881. 
Hon.  Green  B.  Raum, 

Commissioner  Internal  Revenue,  Washington,  D.  C. : 
Sir  :  Referring  to  our  conversation  some  time  ago  in  regard  to  work 
in  the  6th  dist.,  N.  C,  I  regret  to  have  to  report  that  on  account  of  the 
pressure  of  very  important  matters  requiring  immediate  attention,  I 
have  been  obliged  to  neglect  that  district  for  some  time.  When  I  as- 
sumed charge  of  this  division  I  assigned  Revenue  Agent  McLeer  and 
Mr.  Crawford  to  duty  in  that  district.  They  operated  in  the  dist. 
eighteen  days,  most  of  the  time  in  the  vicinity  of  Statesville.  The 
frauds  they  unearthed  during  their  brief  stay  showed  the  importance 
of  the  work  to  be  (lone  in  that  district.  On  account  of  having  to  at- 
tend court  in  New  York  City  the  forei)art  of  November,  on  tlie  iltli  of 
that  montli,  I  was  obliged  to  turn  the  Tatum  case  over  to  them,  which 
fully  occujued  their  time  for  over  a  month  in  the  dist.  of  S.  C,  and  the 
4th  dist.,  N.  C.  My  time  has  been,  so  far,  fully  occupied  night  and  day 
withniattersof  the  utmost  importance,  and  T  nowhave  enough  imi)ortant 
work  on  hand  (which  must  be  attended  to  in  order  that  the  government 
interests  may  not  suffer  in  the  courts)  to  last  me  three  months.  I 
realize  tlie  fact  that  there  is  no  district  in  the  country  that  stands 
so  much  in  niu'd  of  a  thorough  overhauling  as  the  (Itli  district  of  this 
State.  There  is  work  enough  in  that  <listiict  for  two  agents  and  all 
the  assistance,  they  can  get,  for  it  must  be  remend)ered  that  so  long  as 
Mr.  C(»it('  ri-maiiis  as  chief  d('|)uty  of  that  district  agents  need  not  ex- 
jK'ct  that  assistance  froiti  the  local  oflicers  that  they  i'ecei\'e  in  the  other 
districts  in  this  State,  for  the  simple  reason  that  they  are  aware  that  to 
give  an  agent  infctiination  regai'ding  frauds  or  irregularities  in  the  dis- 
trict will  incur  tlie  displeasure  of  Mr.  Coite,  and  mav  result  to  their 
jMM'uniary  injury.  1  know  of  iustanc<»s  icceutly  where  olliceis  have 
iiKtiirrecl  Mr.  Coite's  displcasun^  by  talking  to  me  about  matters  in  the 
district,  for  the  reason,  as  Mr.  Coite  puts  it,  he  did  not  want  T.rooks  t:o 
fiiid  out  cNciything  that  was  going  on  in  the  district.  Mr.  Coite  is 
noted  lor  making  excuses  foi-  frauds   and    irregularities  discovered  in 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  493 

the  district  instead  of  trying  to  correct  abuses ;  for  instance,  in  the 
recent  case  of  W.  A.  Daniels,  distiller,  who  received  the  key  of  Freeze's 
warehouse  from  the  collector's  oillce.  gutted  the  warehouse  of  10  bbls. 
of  spirits,  then  returned  the  keys  to  the  office.  Mr.  (Joite  told  nie  he 
could  not  see  anything  i)Mrti<'ularly  wrong  in  giving  IMr.  ])aniels 
Freeze's  warehouse  key,  as  Mr.  Daniels  hud  always  been  regarded  as  a 
very  reputable  citizen  in  the  connnnnity,  while  the  facts  are  that  Mr. 
Daniels  has  the  re])utation  of  being  one  of  the  worst  whisky  thieves 
in  the  district.  It  was  iji  Mr.  Coite's  fertile  brain  the  scheme  of  send- 
ing out  a  circular  assessing  the  numeious  officers  of  the  dist.  1  %  a 
month  of  their  salary  for  incidental  exi)euses  of  the  oftice  originated. 
Mr.  Coite  is  always  complaining  of  being  overworked,  and  tinding  fault 
witli  the  department  for  reqniring  so  much  of  him,  while  the  facts  are 
that  Mr.  Coite  has  so  much  private  business  outside  of  the  ofSce  that 
it  is  seldom  he  can  be  found  at  the  office  when  he  is  wanted,  more  es- 
pecially when  he  is  not  expecting  a  call  from  an  agent. 

There  is  not  a  district  in  the  State  so  backward  about  furnishing  in- 
formation as  the  Gth,  for  which  fact,  in  my  oi)inion,  Mr.  Coite  is  respon- 
sible. Important  information  which  can  be  obtained  from  other  dis- 
tricts in  this  State  in  a  few  hours  by  telegraph  takes  weeks  to  get  from 
the  Cth  district,  greatly  to  the  detriment  of  the  government's  interests. 
To  illustrate,  on  Dec.  io,  '81,  there  was  seized  in  this  district  3  wagons 
contTiining  13  p'k'gs  of  illicit  brandy;  3  of  the  p'k'g's,  bore  the  stamps, 
marks,  and  brands  of  the  distilleries  in  the  Oth  dist.,  two  from  one  dis- 
tiller and  one  from  another.  The  last-named  p'k'g.  was  tax  paid  in 
Ai)ril,  1881,  the  two  p'k'g's  tax  paid  in  Sept.,  1881,  and  originally  con- 
tained corn  ivlmky.  On  the  day  of  the  seizure  I  wrote  Collector  Mott, 
giving  names  of  distillers,  serial  Nos.  of  casks  and  of  warehouse  and 
tax-paid  stamjjs,  name  of  the  store-keeper  and  ganger  and  date  of  tax- 
paid  stamps,  requesting  to  know  to  whom  the  distiller  disposed  of 
these  packages.  On  Dec.  22nd,  not  having  rec'd  au  answer,  I  wrote  Col- 
lector Mott  again  asking  him  to  send  me  the  information  called  for  in 
my  letter  of  the  10th  inst.  Under  date  of  Dec.  23d,  lie  sent  me  the  in- 
formation in  regard  to  the  two  p'k'g's  tax  paid  in  Sept.  '81,  but  as  yet 
I  have  not  received  the  information  in  regard  to  the  one  p'k'g  tax  paid 
in  April,  1881.  I  am  awaiting  similar  information  asked  for  Dec.  24  in  re- 
gard to  4  packages  seized  in  Welche's  smoke-house,  this  dist.  The  in- 
formation regarding  the  3  packages  found  at  the  same  place  with  the  4 
packages  bearing  stamps,  marks,  and  brands  of  a  distiller  in  the 5th  dist., 
was  received  by  telegraph  and  return  mail.  From  reliable  information 
received  from  several  sources,  1  am  satisfied  of  the  very  large  amount 
of  illicit  spirits  which  has  been  hauled  south  recently,  including  the 
large  seizures  made  in  this  district.  The  most  of  it  is  manufactured  in 
the  Gth  dist.,  and  the  parties  engaged  in  the  illicit  traffic  use  any 
stamped  packages  they  can  get  hold  of.  Thus,  it  is  of  the  utmost  im- 
portance that  transcripts  of  distillers'  form  52  should  be  promptly  filed 
in  order  that  such  information  as  I  am  asking  for  could  always  be  given 
promptly.  I  think  Mr.  Coite  should  be  held  responsible  for  these  de- 
lays. Mr.  Coite  has  been  a  drawback  to  the  Gth  dist.  for  years,  as 
can  be  shown  by  the  agents  who  have  been  assigned  to  duty  in  that 
dist.  In  my  judgment,  Mr.  Coite  ought  to  be  removed  from  the  posi- 
tion of  chief  deputy.  If  he  must  be  kept  in  the  service,  I  would  rec- 
ommend that  he  be  assigned  to  a  division  in  the  most  distant  portion 
of  the  district.  With  a  good  chief  deputy  who  will  devote  all  of  his 
time  to  his  official  duties  and  encourage  all  officers  of  the  district  in 
attending  to   their  duties  and  in  protecting  the  government  interests, 


494  COLLECTION    OF    LNTERNAL    REVENUE   IN 

a  man  whom  the  ag^ents  could  trust  and  feel  assured  of  bis  hearty  co- 
operation, I  am  sure  the  revenues  of  this  district  would  be  jj^reatly  in- 
creased. It  seems  to  me,  that  with  the  immense  number  of  officers 
that  are  employed  in  the  district,  working  in  harmony  and  in  the  inter- 
ests of  the  goveniment,  that  tlie  frauds  now  practiced  would  be  pre- 
vented, and  there  would  be  no  necessity  for  the  continual  presence  of 
revenue  agents  in  the  district. 

I  am  now  engaged  on  what  I  consider  some  of  the  most  important 
cases  ever  started  in  this  State,  the  success  of  which  will  have  a  most 
wholesome  effect,  and  J  am  confident  of  success.  The  Gth  dist.  is  very 
inaccessible,  and  I  cannot  begin  to  give  it  the  attention  it  requires 
without  neglecting  very  important  cases. 

I  would  therefore  respectfully  suggest  that  for  the  present,  the  6th 
dist.  be  made  one  division  and  at  least  two  revenue  agents  be  assigued 
to  the  same,  with  all  the  assistance  they  need.  J  think  if  two  agents 
with  about  12  gangers,  were  assigned  to  special  duty  for  three  months 
in  the  dist.,  that  much  good  would  be  accomplished. 


Very  respectfully, 


A.  H.  BROOKS, 

Revenue  Agent. 


No.  40. 


United  States  Internal  Eevenue, 

Green)iboro\N'.C.,Feb.  G,  18S1, 

Hon.  Green  B.  Raum, 

Commismoner  of  Inf.  Revenue^   Washington,  D.  C. 

Sir:  In  reply  to  office  letter  of  20th  Jan'y,  1881  ("T.  M.  C."  &  ''  L. 
S.  E."),  directing  me  to  find  out  to  what  particular  duty  James  H.  Har- 
ris, special  deputy  in  the  Gth  district  of  North  Carolina,  at  $125  per 
month,  is  assigned,  and  to  re])ort  ui)on  his  character,  qualifications  for 
the  service,  and  the  work  performed  by  him  during  the  time  he  has  been 
under  commission,  I  have  the  honor  to  state  that  an  investigation  of 
the  caseshows  that  theduty  to  which  Mr.  Harris  is  assigned  istocirculate 
around  among  the  colored  i)eople,  aiul  gather  what  information  he  can 
as  to  i)arties  engaged  in  illegal  traffic  in  si)irits  and  tobacco  in  that 
district. 

As  to  bis  character,  I  am  hardly  competent  to  judge  from  my  own 
knowledge,  liaving  met  him  only  once,  but  from  wliat  information  I  have 
been  able  to  gather,  1  should  consider  it  reputable. 

As  to  his  (|iialification  for  that  service,  I  see  no  reason  why  he  is  not 
qualili«-(l,  lint  I  think  very  little  can  be  accomplished  in  that  way.  My 
experience  has  been  that  very  little  can  be  accomplished  by  this  method. 
It  soon  comes  to  be  understood  or  suspected  what  such  a  person's  busi- 
ness is,  and  vei-y  little  iutbrmation  will  be  imparted. 

In  th(;  case  oi"  Mr,  Harris,  I  find  that  the  colored  peoi)le  generally 
un<lerstand  his  business,  and  tbey  will  give  him  no  information. 

As  to  the  work  performed  by  him,  tliere  is  no  record  in  the  collector's 
office  sliowing  tliat  he  has  accomplished  anything  during  the  seven 
months  he,  lias  been  on  tliis  duty. 

I  leaiii  that  much  of  his  tinu;  has  been  spent  out  of  his  district. 

J  consider  him  of  no  use  to  the  service  in  his  i)resent  capacity. 
Very  respect  lull y, 

HORACE  KELLOGG, 

Revenue  Agents 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NOETH    CAROLINA.  495 

No.  772. 

United  States  Internal  Kevenue, 

StatesviUe,  N.  C,  March  2lst,  1880. 

Sir  :  I  have  the  honor  to  report  that  yesterday,  accoiiipanied  by  Rev- 
enue Agent  Harrison,  I  examined  the  bonded  warehouse  of  John  W. 
Clark's  distillery,  No.  1750,  Iredell  county,  0th  district  N.  C.  This 
distillery,  according-  to  the  records  in  the  collector's  office,  sus])ended 
operations  June  Gth,  1881,  and  at  that  time  had  twenty-two  (22)  pack- 
ages in  the  warehonse,  containing  nine  hundred  and  fifty-three  (953) 
gallons  of  whisky.  On  October  3ist,  1881,  fourteen  (14)  packages,  con- 
taining six  hundred  and  twenty-one  (021)  gallons  was  withdrawn  by  W. 
B.  Mott,  general  store-keeper  and  ganger  in  charge  of  the  warehouse, 
leaving,  according  to  the  collector's  records,  eight  (8)  packages,  contain- 
ing three  hundred  and  thirty-two  (332)  gallons  of  whisky  in  the 
warehouse. 

When  we  went  to  the  collector's  office  yesterday  morning  and  inquired 
for  W.  B.  Mott,  general  store-keeper  &  ganger,  he  could  not  be  found. 
I  then  told  Mr.  Coite,  chief  dei)uty  in  charge  the  distillery  I  wished  to 
visit,  and  asked  him  if  the  key  of  the  warehouse  was  in  the  office.  After 
making  some  inquiry  he  said  no ;  that  the  general  store-keeper  in  charge 
of  that  warehouse  must  have  it.  Mr.  Coite  then  sent  General  Store- 
keeper &  Ganger  E.  B.  Brake  with  us  to  the  distillery  with  instruc- 
tions, if  necessary,  to  break  ofl"  the  lock  then  on  the  warehouse  and  re- 
place it  when  we  got  through  our  examinations  with  a  new  lock,  which 
he  gave  him  for  that  purpose.  When  we  arrived  at  the  distillery  we 
found  the  warehouse  locked  and  no  way  of  getting  into  it  except  through 
the  door.  After  considerable  trouble  we  ett'ected  au  entrance  by  re- 
moving one  of  the  staples  holding  the  lock,  and  upon  examination  found 
the  eight  (8)  packages  remaining  in  the  warehouse  all  einijty.  There 
was  not  even  a  drop  of  whiskey  in  one  of  them.  They  were  dry  and 
had  apparently  been  empty  for  some  time.  They  all  had  the  warehouse 
stamp  on,  and  were  marked  and  branded  as  follows : 

Serial  No.  37.  W.  H.  S.  1181095.  J.  C.  Setzer,  store-keeper  & 
ganger.  Inspected  March  4th,  1881.  Proof  100.  40  gallons  "corn 
whiskey." 

Serial  No.  33.  W.  H.  S.  1181091.  J.  C.  Selzer,  store-keeper  & 
gauger.  Inspected  December  5th,  1881.  Proof  100.  44  gallons  "  corn 
whiskey." 

Serial  No.  53.  W.  H.  S.  1181711.  J.  C.  Setzer,  store-keeper  & 
gauger.  Inspected  June  0th,  1881.  Proof  100.  44  gallons  "  corn 
whiskey." 

Serial  No.  35.  W.  H.  S.  1181093.  J.  C.  Setzer,  store-keeper  & 
gauger.  Inspected  February  24th,  1881.  Proof  100.  43  gallons  "  corn 
whiskey." 

Serial  No.  0.  W.  H.  S.  11810H4.  J.  C.  Setzer,  store-keeper  & 
gauger.  Inspected  June  15th,  1880.  Proof  100.  43  gallons  "  corn 
whiskey." 

Serial  No.  5.  W.  H.  S.  879278.  W.  C.  Morrison,  store-keeper  & 
gauger.  Inspected  June  9th,  1880.  Proof  100.  39  gallons  "  corn 
Avhiskey." 

Serial  No.  52.  W.  H.  S.  1181710.  J.  C.  Setzer,  store-keeper  & 
gauger.  Inspected  May  31st,  1881.  Proof  100.  27  gallons  "corn- 
whiskey." 

Serial  No.  55.      W.  H.  S.      1181094.      J.  C.  Setzer,  store-keeper  & 


496  COLLECTION  OF  intp:rnal  revenue  in 

ganger.  Inspected  February  28th,  1881.  Proof  100.  45  gallons  "corn 
wliiskey." 

When  I  asked  Mr.  Clark,  who  was  present,  how  the  packages  became 
•empty  he  at  first  said  lie  did  not  know,  bnt  npon  being  more 
closely  questioned  lie  said  they  must  have  leaked.  1  told  liiin  that 
that  exi)lanation  would  not  do,  as  the  packages  were  all  iron-hooped 
and  much  better  barrels  than  are  generally  nsed  by  distillers  in  this 
section  of  the  country,  he  then  said  that  part  of  the  whiskey  out  of  these 
«ight  (8)  packages  had  been  taken  to  till  up  the  fifteen  (15)  packages 
withdrawn  from  the  warehouse  last  fall  (I  suppose  he  meant  the  four- 
teen (14)  packages  withdrawn  last  October),  and  that  he  had  been  in  the 
habit  of  getting  whiskey  out  of  the  warehouse  tor  hiuiself  and  friends 
when  he  wanted  it.  I  asked  him  if  he  had  the  key  of  the  warehouse,  or 
if  not,  how  he  got  in.  He  denied  having  the  key  himself,  but  said  J.  0. 
Setzer,  the  store-keeper  &  ganger  had  it,  and  that  when  he  (Clark) 
wanted  any  whiskey  for  himself  or  friends  he  would  tell  Setzer,  who 
would  open  the  warehouse  and  give  him  what  whiskey  he  wanted. 
Clark  said  the  whiskey  was  taken  away  from  the  warehouse  in  demi- 
johns. I  then  asked  him  if  J.  C.  Setzer,  the  storekeeper,  who  was  on 
■duty  at  the  distillery  at  the  time  of  the  suspension  in  June,  did  not  re- 
turn the  warehouse  key  to  the  collector's  office  when  the  distillery  shut 
do\yn.  Clark  said  that  Setzer  did  return  the  key  to  the  office  at  that 
time,  but  got  it  shortly  afterwards  to  look  at  the  whiskey,  and  then  kept 
it.  Clark  said  that  Setzer  let  him  have  whiskey  from  the  warehouse, 
both  before  and  after  the  distillery  suspended  operations.  Clark  said 
the  last  whiskey  tax  paid  by  him  was  withdrawn  by  the  general  store- 
keeper, Walter"  B.  Mott.  He  said  that  shortly  after  Mr.  Mott  came  to 
the  warehouse  he  (Clark)  asked  him  to  take  a  ride  to  Troutman's  station 
(4  miles  away)  with  him  to  get  some  tacks  and  varnish,  and  that  while 
they  were  away  J.  C.  Setzer,  the  old  store- keeper  &  ganger,  did  the 
•work.  Clark  said  Mott  and  he  were  gone  a  couple  of  hours.  This  con- 
versation was  in  the  presence  of  revenue  agent  Harrison  and  Mr.  Drake. 

After  leaving  the  distillery  we  went  to  Mr.  Setzer's  house,  which  is 
■close  by.  to  see  him,  but  I  have  been  since  told  that  he  kept  out  of  our 
way. 

Tlie  records  in  the  collector's  ofiice,  kept  by  C.  J.  Colyer,  clerk  in 
charge  of  the  locks  and  keys,  show  that  the  warehouse  key  of  this  dis- 
tillery was  returned  to  the  office  by  J.  C.  Setzer,  store-keeper  and  ganger, 
July  1st,  1881,  and  that  it  was  given  back  to  him  July  11th. 

It  appears  to  be  a  matter  of  very  little  consequence  in  this  district 
whether,  when  a  distillery  suspends  oi)erations  with  whiskey  in  the 
warehouse,  the  store-keeper  returns  the  key  to  the  ofiice  or  not.  I  had 
an  occasion,  in  an  investigation  made  by  me  last  fall  in  this  district 
of  a  distillei-y  under  suspension  with  whiskey  in  the  warehouse  to  show 
that  th<!  distiller  had  the  key,  and  that  while  he  had  it  the  ware- 
house w:is  lobbed  of  whiskey,  barrels  and  all.  This  case  differs  some- 
what from  that,  however,  for  here  a  si  ore-keeper  has  the  key,  who  con- 
nives witli  tiie  distilU-r  to  I'ob  the  warehouse  of  the  whiskey,  but  leave 
the  barrels. 

I  Jiav<i  not  yet  been  able  to  see  either  Store-keeper  Mott  or  Setzer. 
Mr.  Coite,  <;hief  dejmty  in  charge,  told  me  he  had  sent  for  them,  and 
expects  them  l)ack  at  tlu;  olfice  on  Thursday. 

I  Imve  reqiu'sted  Mr.  Coite,  chief  deputy  in  charge,  to  seize  what  prop- 
erty still  remains  at  the  distillery  and  make  an  assessment  against 
Clark  for  the  tax  on  the  stolen  whiskey.  I  will  re])ort  further  after  I 
liave  an  intcivicw  with  the  store-keepers. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  497 

I  have  seut  a  cop}'  of  this  report  to  revenue  agent  Brooks  at  Greens- 
boro', N.  C. 

Very  respectfully, 

EDWAKD  McLEER, 

lievenue  Agent. 
Hon.  Green  B.  Eaum, 

Commissioner  of  Internal  lievenue,  Washington,  I).  C. 


No.  773. 


United  States  Internal  Eevenue, 

matesville,  N.  0.,  3Iarch  14,  1882. 
Hon.  Green  B.  Eaum, 

Gommissioner  Int.  Revenue,  Washingto7i,  D.  C. 

Sir  :  Eeferring  to  my  report  of  the  21st  inst.,  in  reference  to  Jno.  W. 
Chirk's  distillery,  No.  1750,  6th  (list.  N.  C.,  I  have  the  honor  to  further 
report  that  on  yesterday  AV alter  B.  Mott,  gen'l  store-keeper  and  ganger, 
called  npon  nie  and  made  the  following  explanation  abont  the  ware- 
house ke}'  not  being  in  his  possession. 

Mr.  Mott  said  that  when  he  was  appointed  gen'l  store-keeper  and 
ganger,  he  called  at  the  collector's  ofhce  and  received  the  kej's  to  the 
warehonse  in  his  division,  but  he  did  not  remember  whether  he  had  the 
key  to  the  warehouse  of  Clark's  distillery  at  the  time  of  last  withdrawal 
of  spirits  or  not,  but  said  that  the  store-keeper  and  ganger,  J.  C.  Setzer, 
did  all  of  the  work  of  attaching  stamps,  marking  barrels,  etc.,  when  the 
fourteen  packages  were  withdrawn,  and  that  while  Setzer  was  doing  it  he 
and  Mr.  Clark,  the  distiller,  drove  to  Troutman's  station  and  back,  being- 
absent  about  two  honrs.  That  on  their  return  Mr.  Setzer  had  all  the 
packages  to  be  tax  paid  ready  for  removal,  that  he  did  not  examine 
balance  of  packages  remaining  in  the  warehouse,  neither  did  he  exam- 
ine the  fourteen  packages  tax  paid  so  as  to  ascertain  contents  of  same; 
that  on  leaving  the  warehouse  he  handed  the  key  to  Seltzer  and  asked 
him  to  return  same  to  the  office. 

The  real  facts  are,  as  developed  by  investigation,  that  the  gen'l 
store-keeper  and  ganger,  Walter  B.  Mott,  never  had  the  key  in  his 
possession;  that  the  old  store-keeper  J.  C.  Setzer,  got  it  from  the  office 
July  nth,,  and  still  has  it  for  aught  that  either  W.  B.  Mott  or  the  col- 
lector's office  know  about  it. 
Very  respectfully, 

EDWAED  McLEEE, 

Eevenue  Agent. 


No.  884. 


United  States  Internal  Eevenue, 

Greensboro^  N.  C.,  Apr.  3,  1882. 

Hon.  Green  B.  Eaum, 

Gommissioner  Internal  Revenue,  Washington,  D.  G.: 

Sir  :  Eeferring  to  your  letter  of  March  29th,  in  regard  to  the  inspec- 
tion of  officers  of  the  0th  dist.,  N.  C,  as  per  instructions  contained  in 
S.  Mis.  116 32 


498  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

your  letter  of  December  1st,  1881,  initials  I.  D.  S.,  I  have  the  honor  to 
report  that  I  furnished  ]\e  venue  Agent  McLeer  with  a  list  of  the  officers 
in  December  last,  with  the  re<j[uest  that  he  inspect  them  as  soon  as  pos- 
sible; but  the  fact  is  that  since  that  time  he  has  been  so  busy  investi- 
gating frauds  discovered  in  that  district  that  he  has  not  had  time  to 
attend  to  anything  else.  I  have  called  Mr.  McLeer's  attention  to  your 
letter  of  March  29th  on  this  subject,  and  he  will  proceed  with  the  work 
as  fast  as  possible  ;  but  in  view  of  the  fact  that  court  meets  at  States- 
ville  this  month,  and  he  has  so  many  fraud  cases  on  haud,  1  doubt  if  he 
will  be  able  to  make  much  progress  with  the  inspection  before  the  first 
of  next  mouth. 

Very  respectfully, 

A.  H.  BROOKS, 

Revenue  Agent. 


No.  898 


United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

StatesviUe,  N.  C,  April  6th,  1882. 

Col.  A.  H.  Brooks, 

Revenue  Agent,  Greensboro\  N.  C.  : 

Sir  :  I  have  the  honor  to  report,  that  I  had  an  interview  at  the  col- 
lector's office  with  J.  C.  Set zer,  store-keeper  and  ganger,  who  was  at  J. 
W.  Clark's  distillery  when  the  eight  barrels  of  whisky  was  stoleiifrom 
the  warehouse.  He  admitted  having  the  key  of  the  warehouse  in  his 
possession  all  the  time  since  the  distillery  suspended  in  June,  1881,  ex- 
cept from  July  1st  to  the  11th,  while  it  w^  as  in  the  collector's  office.  He 
said  he  knew  there  were  two  barrels  emi)ty  in  the  warehouse  at  the 
time  the  distillery  suspended  on  June  0th,  1881,  but  never  made  any 
report  of  this  fact  to  the  collector's  office;  he  said  he  also  knew  that 
there  was  eight  emjity  barrels  in  the  warehouse  when  he  put  up  the 
fourteen  barrels  for  Store-keeper  and  Ganger  Walter  Mott  to  withdraw 
October  31st,  1881,  but  did  not  let  him  know  anything  of  it.  He  denies 
ever  taking  or  i)ermitting  anybody  else  to  take  whisky  from  the  aa  are- 
house  untax  i)aid  ;  l)ut  1  am  satisfied,  and  so  was  Dr.  Mott,  who  was  pres- 
ent duriug  tlie  iuterview  that  he  was  lyiug. 

I  uuih'rstand  that  Clark  now  says  he  did  not  mean  what  he  told  me 
tlieday  I  exaiiiiiied  the  warehouse,  but  only  said  it  because  he  w'as  uiad. 

Col]<M;t<)r  Mott  said  he  would  seize  what  ])roperty  could  be  found  at 
the  distillery,  and  recouimeud  Setzer's dismissal  from  the  service.     He 
will  also  make  an  assessment  against  Clark  for  the  tax  on  the  whisky. 
Very  respiM-tfully, 

EDWARD  McLEER, 

Revenue  Agent. 


Unitki)  S'I'atks  Internal  Revenue, 

(/reenshoro\  N.  C,  Apr.  8,  1882. 
I  Ion.  (Ikkkn  I>.  Racm, 

Coin/nisslniirr  liilcrnttl  h'crciiKc,    ]V(isliingt<>ii,  1>.  (J.: 
Sill:   I  have  Wm-  Iiumoi'  to  transmit  herewith  report  of  Revenue  Agent 
McLeer  in    regard    to  .1.  ('.   Sctzer,   store-keeper  and  ganger  at   J.  W. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  499 

Clark's  distillery,  No.  1750,  Gth  dist.  N.  C,  where  eight  barrels  of  spirits 
was  removed  from  the  distillery  witliout  the  payment  of  tax. 

It  seems  to  ine  that  this  is  auother  case  wliere  the  officer  ought  to 
be  criminally  prosecuted. 


Very  respectfully 


A.  H.  BROOKS, 

lie  venue  Agent. 


No.  902. 


United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

Greensboro,  N.  C,  May  nth,  1882. 
Col.  A.  H.  Brooks, 

Revenue  Agent,  Greene'boro\  N.  C.  : 

Sir  :  I  have  the  honor  to  report  that,  in  compliance  with  your  in- 
structions, I  did,  on  tlie  1st  day  of  May  inst.,  proceed  to  the  county  of 
Gaston  and  Cleaveland,  in  the  Gth  dist.  of  N.C.,and  made  examination 
of  26  distilleries  in  said  counties  as  follows:  No.  1748,  1775,  1327,  1202, 
1386,  644,  2107,  1308,  2040,  2093, 1762, 1230,  2099,  2117,  2082,  2089,  1768, 
1776,  1749,  2064,4234,  1247,  997,  1005,  2097,  1007. 

That  1  also  made  a  record  of  several  numbers,  &c.,  of  the  tobacco 
stamps  found  in  said  counties  to  the  number  of  166  boxes. 

That  in  the  examination  of  said  distilleries  and  the  books  required 
to  be  kept  by  the  storekeepers  I  found  in  many  instances  that  the 
store-keepers  kept  and  made  the  entries  in  the  books  required  to  be 
kept  by  the  distillers,  and  that  it  was  almost  a  universal  rule  for  the 
store-keeper  to  temper  the  spirits  and  reduce  it  to  the  per  cent,  proof 
required  by  the  distiller.  That  I  only  found  saccliarometers  in  use  at 
two  of  said  distilleries  and  one  of  these  was  at  the  distillery  of  Henry 
Hardy,  No.  997,  and  the  store-keeper,  W.  H.  Hoffman,  did  not  know  how 
to  use  it,  and  tliat  the  specittc  quantity  of  the  beer  was  not  correctly 
recorded  in  the  store-keeper's  books  in  but  one  instance. 

That  the  spirit  pipes  leading  from  the  still,  to  the  cistern  room  in 
quite  a  number  of  the  distilleries  were  in  a  very  poor  condition.  Some 
of  them  having  openings  by  which  spirits  could  be  abstracted.  For 
particulars  as  to  the  same,  1  would  refer  you  to  the  reports  made  on 
forms  19,  showing  condition  of  said  distilleries. 

That  I  examined  Franklin  C.  Ferguson,  deputy  collector  for  the  5th 
division  of  the  6th  dist.  of  N.  C,  who  is  42  years  of  age  ;  has  been 
deputy  for  six  months  last  past ;  was  a  store-keeper  and  ganger  previous 
to  his  appointment  as  such  deputy,  and  it  is  my  opinion,  after  ha\  ing 
eanvassed  his  said  division  with  him,  that  he  is  not  a  man  of  sufficient 
ability  to  keep  said  division  in  good  shape  and  prevent  the  perpetration 
of  frauds  on  the  revenue  department. 
Very  respectfully, 

JAMES  W.  BALLARD. 


United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

Greenshoro\  N.  C,  May  17,  1882. 

Hon.  Green  B.  Raum, 

(commissioner  Internal  Revenue,  WasJmigton,  D.  C.  : 
Sir  :  I  have  the  honor  to  transmit  herewith  report  of  Mr.  Jas.  W. 


600  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Ballard,  dated  the  ITtli  inst.,  iu  regard  to  work  i)erforined  by  liiin  iu 
tlie  5th  division,  6th  district,  X.  C. 

Very  respectfiillv,  * 

A.  H.  BROOKS, 

Rercime  Agent. 


No.  972. 


United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

StatesviUe,  N.  C'.,  May  IS,  1882. 
A.  H.  Brooks,  Esq., 

Revenue  Agent,  Greensboro^  JV.  C. : 
Sir:  I  yesterday  drove  out  to  Johu  C.  Plyler's  distillery  for  the  pur- 
pose of  examinino-  it,  but  when  I  got  there  I  fouud  it  closed,  having 
f»uspeDded  Apr.  29th.  I  met  Mr.  Plyler  at  his  house,  where  he  pays 
special  taxes  as  a  R.  L.  D.  He  said  he  intended  starting  uj)  his  distillery 
again  if  he  could  get  the  kind  of  a  store-keeper  he  wanted,  but  unless  a 
store-kee])er  would  do  just  as  he  said,  he  would  be  damned  if  he  could 
stay  around  there.  Mr.  Plyler  told  me  that  no  store-keeper  could  come 
there  who  would  not  pay  him  a  dollar  and  a  half  per  day  for  his  board. 
I  am  informed  that  Store-keeper  Hoover,  who  was  with  Plyler  when  be 
shut  down,  is  an  honest,  reliable  man.  I  think  Plyler  suspended  in 
order  to  get  clear  of  Hoover.  Plyler  at  once  made  application  for 
another  store-keeper,  and  the  collector  assigned  store-ke.eper  J.  P.  Doug- 
lass. He  went  to  the  distillery,  but  when  he  heard  Plyler's  terms,  he 
refused  to  stay. 

1  have  reported  these  facts  to  I)r.  Mott,  and  he  says  that  unless  Ply- 
ler will  start  up  with  Store-keeper  Douglass,  he  will  have  to  remain 
under  suspension. 

Very  respectfully, 

EDWARD  McLEER, 

Bev.  Agent. 


United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

Greenhoro\  N.  C,  May  19th,  1882. 

Hon.  Green  B.  Raum, 

Commissioner  of  Internal  Eevenue,  Washington,  D.  C.  : 

Sir:  I  liave  the  honor  to  transmit  herewith  rei)ort  of  Revenue  Agent 
Edward  McLcer,  dated  the  18th  inst.,  in  regard  to  -lohn  C.  Plyler, 
distiller  Gth  <listri(;t,  N.  C,  who  is  desirous  of  having  a  store-keeper 
assigned  to  liis  distillery  wlio  will  obey  his  (Plyler's)  instructions,  and 
who  will  ])ay  liim  one-half -of  his  salary  for  board. 
\'erv  resi)ectrully, 

A.  H.  BIJOOKS, 

Jx'evenue  Agent. 

United  Statios  Internal  Rkvenue, 

.Slalrsrillc,  N.  C,  April  28,  1880. 
('ol.  Iloi.'Aci';  Ki;mjk;(;, 

Ik'errniir  Agent,  Statesrille,  N.  C: 
Siii:   Ilcicwitii    I    beg  to  suliinit  re])ort  upon   condition  of  the  dis- 
tillericH  and  olhcers  in  the  counties  or  Iredell,  Catawba,  Lincoln,  Burke, 


THE    SIXTH    DISTKICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  501 

Rowan,  Mecklenburg',  McDowell,  Cabarrns,  Cleveland,  Polk,  and  Riitli- 
erfoid.  In  tliis  connection  1  desire  to  express  my.  a])j)re(dati<>n  of  the 
faithful,  conscientious,  and  i)atient  manner  in  which  (iMuucrs  Delaney 
and  Howiird,  of  Milwaukee;  Eaton,  of  Kentucky;  and  Stewart,  of  (Mii- 
cago,  ])erformed  the  work  of  instructiui;'  the  ofti(;ers  in  tlie  counties 
above  named,  and  cannot  but  feel  that  their  labors  \\\\\  jtrove  highly 
beneficial  to  the  revenue  service  in  this  district. 

In  the  outset  1  wish  to  say  that  I  have  had  some  experience  in  the 
same  condition  of  aft'airs  that  exists  in  the  revenue  service  in  this  dis- 
trict, and  fully  appreciate  the  difficulties  which  have  surrounded  every 
attempt  to  make  the  service  conform  to  the  requirements  of  the  de- 
partment, and  at  the  same  time  to  consult  the  best  interests  of  the 
revenue.  I  am  fully  satisfied,  therefore,  that  it  is  neithcir  impracti- 
cable or  untimely  to  attemi^t  to  raise  the  status  of  the  revenue  service 
in  this  district.  Such  suggestions  as  I  am  constrained  to  nndce  are  based 
upon  the  general  condition  of  affairs  as  I  found  them,  disiegardiuii'  the 
exceptions  of  ;i  favorable  character. 

The  distilleiies  being  crude  in  construction  and  operation,  and  the 
capacity  limited,  the  officers  have  drifted  into  a  condition  of  indifier- 
ence,  and  their  supervision  has  been  of  a  constructive  or  nominal  char- 
acter. They  have  failed  to  inform  themselves  of  their  responsibilities 
and  duties,  and  too  often  have  accepted  precedents  instead  of  conJi)li- 
ance  with  law.  Few  officers  have  in  their  possession  a  coi)y  of  Seiie.s 
7,  No.  7,  and  fewer  still  have  given  it  any  thought  or  study.  Many 
have  admitted  that  they  have  not  seen  it  for  several  months. 

In  keeping  their  books  they  are  guided  by  precedent,  and  their  en- 
tries are  almost  entirely  constructive,  never  literal.  Few  of  them  could 
swear  to  the  entries  in  their  books  if  brought  into  court.  No  matter 
how  much  grain  may  be  brought  upon  the  premises,  the  entry  on  form 
17  shows  only  tlie  amount  used  each  day. 

There  should  be  in  every  distillery  a  meal  box,  which  should  be  se- 
cured with  a  lock. 

The  pipes  leading  from  the  tails  of  the  worm-tanks  should  be  locked 
at  each  opening 

The  abstraction  of  low-wines  and  whisky  is  a  very  simi»le  matter  in 
nearly  all  the  distilleries.  Where  glass  tubes  are  used  as  separators, 
they  should  be  sealed  or  locked. 

The  cistern-rooms,  almost  without  exception,  are  constructed  with 
single  boards,  which  can  be  removed  and  replaced  without  detection, 
and  spirits  can  be  taken  from  the  cisterns  without  any  difficulty. 

I  see  no  reason  why  the  spirit-i)ipe  should  not  be  securely  connected 
with  the  cistern,  and  the  cistern  remain  stationary,  with  a  locked  fau- 
cet, or  locked  trap  on  top. 

In  many  cases  there  are  really  no  cisterns  used  as  such,  the  cask 
being  tilled  and  taken  away,  and  another  one  taking  its  place. 

The  cooperage  being  second-handed,  or,  at  best,  very  inferior,  the 
leakage  in  warehouse  will  naturally  be  great,  unless  intelligent  atten- 
tion is  given  to  the  stock  in  bond.  By  reference  to  the  gangers'  reports 
of  iusi)ection  of  spirits  (and  the  gangers  in  my  charge  carefully  gauged 
every  package  in  all  the  warehouses  visited),  it  will  be  seen  that  the 
wastage,  from  leaks  or  theft,  in  many  cases  is  very  large. 

In  this  connection  I  would  state  that  I  have,  from  observation  and 
interrogation  of  officers  and  others,  concluded  that  the  practice  prevails 
to  a  certain  extent  in  the  district  to  fill  up  partially  empty  packages 
from  the  cistern-room,  ui)on  withdrawal  from  bond.  I  am  the  more  cer- 
tain of  this,  as  I  heard  of  no  rebates  being  demanded  from  distillers  by 
wholesale  dealers  on  account  of  excessive  wastage. 


502  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

AMtli  but  few  exceptions  I  fouud  that  the  capacities  of  the  tubs  were 
greater  than  reported,  and  I  can  see  no  reason  why  the  distiller  should 
not,  under  the  loose  system  prevailing,  use  more  grain  than  he  is  enti- 
tled to. 

I  think  the  impression  prevails  very  generally  that  distillers  are  only 
accountable  for  the  amount  of  their  assessed  capacity  (two  gallons  to 
the  bushel  net),  and  that  all  over  that  amount  is  free  for  abstraction. 
As  the  product  of  the  distilleries  of  this  district  is  reported  almost 
uniforndy  at  about  two  gallous  to  the  bushel,  I  infer  that  the  margin  is 
never  tax-paid. 

I  believe  that  the  remedy  for  this  course  is  to  be  had  in  a  careful  rs- 
survey  of  the  tubs,  which  shoiild  be  numbered,  and  their  contents  in 
cubic  gallons  in  every  case  marked  thereon.  Xo  matter  what  the  size 
of  a  tub  was,  or  its  contents,  T  found  that  the  officer  at  a  four-bushel 
house  iuvariablj'  entered  on  his  book  "60  gallons."  There  seems  to  be 
but  little,  if  any,  check  upon  the  use  of  unauthorized  material.  The 
adoption  of  some  system  in  conformance  to  the  law  in  this  matter  would 
be  no  hardship. 

The  officers  have  an  idea  that  their  duties  are  ended  when  the  work 
of  the  day  is  concluded,  no  matter  what  the  hour  may  be,  and  I  believe 
a  nuijority  of  them  are  not  at  their  distilleries  when  work  commences 
in  the  morning.  Those  living  at  a  distance  almost  invariably  go  home 
at  an  earlier  hour  Saturday,  and  return  at  their  convenience  on  Mon- 
day, in  some  cases  leaving  meal-box  o])en  and  key  of  low-wines  pump 
in  the  hands  of  distiller.  Many  officers  are  in  the  habit  of  absenting 
themselves  from  the  distillery  during  the  day  while  it  is  in  operation, 
a  practice  not  likely  to  incur  the  displeasure  of  the  distiller. 

1  believe  the  practice  has  prevailed,  to  a  greater  or  less  extent,  of  the 
officer  paj'ing,  directly  or  indirectly,  a  x)ortion  of  his  salary  to  the  dis- 
tiller as  a  consideration  for  his  coutinning  his  operation.  This  is  difficult 
to  i)rove,  but  it  can  be  broken  up  by  the  vigilance  and  intelligence  of 
the  deputy  collectors. 

The  lack  of  faniiliarity  with  the  gauging  rod  and  hydrometer,  and 
the  correct  method  of  using  them,  on  the  part  of  most  of  the  officers  is 
uniform.  The  gauge  of  the  i)ackages  is  almost  invariably  too 
hi^h,  and  as  distillers  have  frequently  admitted  to  me  that  they 
"  Avanted  them  as  l)ig  as  they  can  get  them,"  1  am  forced  to  1)elieve 
that  many  officers  ha\'e  com]>lied  witli  the  wislies  of  the  distillers,  and 
thus  aide<l  in  committing  a  fraud.  The  othcers  in  several  cases  admit- 
ted that,  as  the  erior  was  in  the  interest  of  the  government,  there  could 
not  be  any  harm  in  the  practice. 

In  some  cases  it  luih  been  tlie  practice  to  put  the  spirits  in  several 
]»ei-  cents  higher  than  marke<l,  to  ])ermit  tilling  uj)  with  water  on  Avith- 
drawal. 

The  stamping,  marking,  and  branding  of  the  packages  in  abnost 
e\<'r_\  ease  is  \-ery  s]o\"<'idy  an<l  inditferently  pel  Ibrmed.  The  second- 
hand ])a<:kages  used  bear  all  tiie  oiiginal  marks,  ol'  every  descri])tion, 
with  scarcely  any  attempt  to  erase  them,  Tlie  officers  slionld  be 
required  imperatix  el_\  to  cdrcJiiUt/  (tnd  cnnijilclcl;/  erase  all  tlie  old  marks 
before  ganging  and  marking  again.  They  have  ample  time  to  do  this. 
TIm'  marks  on  the  bung  sta\'e  shonld  be  placed  between  the  second  and 
third  hoops,  instead  of  close  to  the  Iniiig,  where  they  are  certain  to  be 
oblitei  alcd  w  Ik  ii  an  at  temjit  is  made  to  iinlnmg  the  ]rk'g.  1  think  there 
is  a  simple  remedx  against  tilling  np  whih^  in  bomi,  always  ]>ro\iding 
•  he  ollicer  is  1  rust  worthy.  1Mie  collector  shonld  re(piir<',  each  officer  to 
take  till'  pro(»fand  onts  of  e\erv   package  that  is  wit  lidrawn,  and  ibr- 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  503 

ward  such  report  to  the  collector,  to  be  filed  in  his  office  for  reference. 
In  addition  to  this,  1  think  deputy  collectors,  when  they  visit  the  dis- 
tilleries, should  inspect  the  stock  in  warehouse  and  take  note  of  extraor- 
dinary outage. 

The  general  store-keeper  should  make  a  similar  report  when  he  with- 
draws any  packages.  Of  course,  the  officer  on  duty  at  a  distillery 
should  proni})tly  report  i)ackag('s  with  large  wantage  as  soon  as  dis- 
covered, and  he  should  freciuently  examine  the  packages  to  that  end. 
When  an  oflicer  is  assigned  to  a  distillery  he  should,  in  (jompany  with 
the  ofiicer  he  relieves,  take  outs  and  ])roof  of  all  the  j)ackages  in  ware- 
house in  order  that  the  responsibility  can  be  properly  placed  of  any- 
thing irregular. 

No  stems  should  be  issued  to  officers  in  the  district  except  Kos.  1  and 
2,  as  they  never  use  the  others. 

Every  ofiQcer  should  be  required  to  })rocure  a  gauging-rod  and  the 
new  wantage-rod,  if  he  has  none,  and  where  the  one  in  use  is  unfit  for 
use  from  age  and  defect,  he  should  procure  a  new  one. 

With  the  patient  instructions  given  the  officers  by  the  special  force, 
I  think  gauging,  including  a  knowledge  of  volume,  will  improve  in  this 
district. 

I  desire  to  express  my  unqualified  belief  that  the  only  true  means  of 
lifting  up,  assimilating,  and  developing  the  revenue  service  in  this  (or 
any  other)  district  is  tlie  frequent  change  of  officers  from  one  i^lace  of 
duty  to  another.  Under  the  i)resent  system  the  officer  who  remains  a 
year  or  more  on  duty  at  one  place  becomes  a  fixture  and  grows  careless 
and  indifi'erent.  His  symi^athy  and  intimacy  with  the  distiller  leads 
him  to  permit  or  sanction  grave  violations  of  the  law.  Xo  assignment 
over  four  months  should  be  made  at  one  place.  The  standard  of  the 
service  can  be  elevated,  it  reform  is  instituted,  and  if  the  collector  should 
see  fit  to  adopt  any  of  the  suggestions  made  by  the  special  force  sent 
into  the  district,  a  circular  embodying  instructions  should  be  sent  to 
every  officer,  who  should  understand  that  efficiency  will  be  the  highest 
recomuuMidatiou  for  retention  on  duty. 

In  tliis  connection,  I  beg  to  say  that,  with  few  exceptions,  the  officers 
of  this  district  can  be  made  </ood  and  efficient  revenue  officers,  faithful 
guardians  of  the  interests  of  the  government,  and  intelligent  aids  to 
the  distiller. 

To  accomplish  this  end  it  must  be  understood  by  every  ofiicer  that 
neglect  of  duty,  negligence,  absence  from  distillery  during  the  hours  of 
the  day,  violating  the  law,  and  sanctioning  violations  of  the  law  by  the 
distiller  will  merit  i)rompt  suspension  or  dismissal  from  the  service. 

The  government  pays  an  ample  consideration  for  the  services  of  these 
officers,  and  has  a  right  to  deuuind  a  faithful  and  full  performance  of 
all  the  duties  imposed  upon  them.  It  is  no  hardship  to  require  these 
officers  to  do  their  whole  duty  under  all  circumstances  and  to  inform 
themselves  upon  the  nature  of  those  duties.  If  they  do  not  do  so  their  < 
places  should  be  filled  with  men  who  will.  Somethinfi  more  i.s  expected  of 
a  store-lxeeper  and  (j<iH<ier  than  malin<j  fictitious  entries  in  his  hoolcs  and 
incorrectlij  gauginf/  half  a  dozen  pad-ages  in  a  month. 

I  regard  it  as  imjjortant  that  deputy  collectors  should  give  the  most 
careful  attention  to  distillers  and  the  officers  on  duty.  They  stand  in 
the  position  of  supervisors,  and  their  duties  are  important.  They  can- 
not ])erform  these  duties  if  they  spend  a  large  portion  of  their  time 
about  Statesville  or  any  other  station  ])<>int.  The  condition  and  needs 
of  the  distilleries  in  their  respective  divisions  should  be  jfiaced  before 
them  and  time  given  them  to  put  everything  in  proper  sha])e.     A  fail- 


504  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

lire  to  do  so  should  have  but  oue  result.  I  believe  an  equalization  of 
the  salaries  of  deputy  collectors,  aud  an  addition  to  their  expense  ac- 
counts, would  be  beneficial  to  the  service. 

In  concluding-  this  suniniing  up,  I  had  in  my  mind  to  say  tliat  the  de- 
partment does  not  demand  ivtjtossihilifies  of  its  officers,  but  it  does 
demand  that  under  everj"  and  all  conditions  the  officer  shall  take  every 
step  necessary  to  secure  the  payment  of  the  tax  vjwn  all  the  spiritn  pro- 
duced. 

To  do  this  vigilance  and  faithfulness  and  an  intelligent  knowledge  of 
his  dnties  is  imperative  upon  the  i)art  of  the  officer.  For  this  jmrpose 
he  is  commissioned,  gives  bond,  and  receives  a  remuneration  much 
larger  than  any  other  class  in  the  State.  I  think,  with  the  increased 
number  of  distilleries  in  the  district,  the  duties,  and  consequently  the  ex- 
penses, of  the  general  store-keepers  will  be  very  largely  increased,  and 
to  my  mind  it  will  be  only  simple  justice  to  recommend  either  an  addi- 
tion to  the  number  or  an  increase  of  salary  to  pay  their  expenses.  This 
I  am  satisfied  you  will  se^  the  necessity  of  soon. 

I  beg  to  call  your  attention  to  the  following-  letters,  which  appear  to 
demand  your  early  attention  : 

Ganger  Hewson  reports  offic-er  J.  F.  Mundy  on  duty  at  Xo.  1320,  in 
Lincoln  Co.,  as  a  one-armed  man  who  is  incompetent  to  perform  his 
duties.  The  distiller  has  heretofore  done  the  gauging  for  Mundy,  and 
he  will  hardh'  ever  become  proficient  in  his  duties.  Ganger  Eaton,  W. 
M.  Lippard  as  very  dull  and  incapable  of  learning  the  duties  of  his 
office. 

M.  L.  Hooper's  gauging,  at  J.  S.  Daniel's,  was  so  incorrect  as  to  war- 
rant the  supi)osition  that  he  either  knew  nothing  of  his  duty  or  did  not 
gauge  the  bbls.  at  all.  He  was  in  the  habit  of  absenting  himself  from 
the  distillery  for  several  hours  at  a  time  dnring  the  day,  and  closed  his 
career  at  Daniel's  by  a  shooting  aflray,  the  merits  of  which  may  be  dis- 
covered by  investigation. 

A.  W.  Klutz,  on  duty  at  Salisbim',  has  a  habit  of  going  to  his  dinner^ 
one  mile  away,  and  absenting  himself  while  work  is  going  on  at  the 
distillery. 

Ganger  Delaney  reports  C.  A.  Wilfong  as  dull  and  incapable  of  learn- 
ing his  duties. 

At  J.  B.  Ijaniers  distillery  the  facilities  for  obtaining  and  using  un- 
authorized grain  are  so  great  as  to  demand  prompt  attention.  Lanier 
rectifies  under  two  stamps. 

\V.  P.  Cline's  distillery  requires  attention.  No  openings  in  the  pipes 
are  secured.  The  only  lock  in  use  is  on  the  se])arator.  The  store-keeper 
at  Xo.  V.j'iA  has  enteied  on  his  form  IT.of;  lbs.  malt  received,  and  noth- 
ing more,  and  enters  as  used  four  bushels  per  day.  He  receives  20  or 
30  Viusliejs  of  grain  on  the  premises,  and  don't  enter  it. 

Ganger  Howard  reports  ,1.  W  Douglass  at  No.  IKJL*  as  iinittentive. 
He  leaves  his  (listillery  dnring  working  hours  during  the  week  and  on 
Saturdays,  retniiiing  late  on  Monday.  lie  virtually  adn'iitted  there- 
filling  of  pkgs.  from  cistern-room  on  withdrawal. 

S.  M.  Iteed  has  i>een  in  service    i;;  months,  and  has  no  ganging-rod. 

(Janger  Delaney  re|)orts  J.  I'\  lluss  as  veiy  dull.  lie  has  no  hy- 
drometer. His  books  ai-e  ])Oorly  kept.  He  is  on  duty  at  Siegle's  dis- 
tilleiy,  whieli  has  no  sign,  as  i'e(|uii'ed  by  law.  This  is  the  distillery 
where  all  ilir  spirits  in  t  he  warehouse  were  stolen,  and  where  there 
siiould  he  a  lesnrvey. 

\\u\.  K'ohinson,  s.  and  g.  at  ("alxt-il's  distillers,  (i.'.I,  was  absent  from 
till' (lislilleiv  ;i(  noon  of  Monday,  April  iL'th.      He  went  honu' Saturday 


THE    SIXJH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  505 

iioou  and  left  some  ot'lii.s  keys  with  tlie  distiller,  the  meal-box  half  full 
was  oi)eii,  and  wasliin^'  and  boiling-  ^oiii<;'  on.  Tie  returned  at  4  p.  m. 
IVlonday.  The  cistern-rooni  was  sliaky,  on(^  of  the  boards  was  loose,  and 
easy  entrance  could  be  had. 

C  W.  Lowrance,  at  distillery  I'JOt,  was  found  four  miles  from  distil- 
lery A])'l  8th.  He  admitted  he  had  been  away  all  the  forenoon.  His 
books  were  incorrectly  kept,  and  lie  had  been  so  lon<;' ou  his  duty  at  this 
house  that  he  had  forgotten  all  he  knew.  He  should  have  a  rest  for  at 
least  six  months. 

J.  F.  Osborne,  at  distillery  132(>,  is  sus])ected  of  being  the  real  pro- 
prietor of  the  place.  He  was  keeping  his  books  constructively  and  in- 
correctly. A  package  of  spirits  was  in  the  cistern-room  which  bi'longed 
to  the  old  firm,  and  which  api»arently  had  contained  over  20  gallons 
when  the  house  had  suspended.  Store-keeper  didn't  know  that  any  re- 
port had  ever  been  made  about  it. 

J.  A.  Hoover,  s.  and  g.  at  Plyler's  distillery,  leaves  every  day  be- 
tween 2  and  3  p.  m. — about  the  time  work  is  done.  He  denied  it,  but 
the  distiller  admitted  it  without  Hoover's  knowledge. 

J.  A.  Price,  s.  &  g.  on  duty  at  A.  F.  Smith's  distillery,  was  absent 
from  his  house  when  the  ofticers  visired  the  i)lace  on  two  different  occa- 
sions.    Distillery  was  under  temporary  suspension  of  a  few  days. 

J.  R.  Cline,  s.  and  g.  at  Trout's  distillery,  reports  that  no  distiller's 
books  have  been  kept  since  he  has  been  on  duty  there — October,  1878. 

S.  Canley,  s.  and  g.  at  Wallace's  distillery,  is  not  vigilant,  and  his 
books  are  incorrectly  kei)t.  He  never  reports  18  lbs.  bran,  nsed  daily. 
There  is  no  meal-box  or  place  to  put  meal  at  all  at  this  distillery.  Pipes 
are  not  locked,  and  the  whole  apparatus  is  in  bad  shape. 

H.  Y.  Mott,  s.  and  g.  at  No.  1389,  does  not  preserve  any  system  at  his 
distillery.     Time  of  filling  and  emptying  and  filling  is  disregarded. 

Ganger  Eaton  visited  Bost's  distillery,  1369,  at  8  a.  m.,  Ap'l  13,  and 
found  it  in  operation.  The  store-keeper,  O.  M.  Barclay,  did  not  arrive 
until  an  hour  later.     He  has  no  gauging-rod. 

Ganger  Eaton  re[)orts  that  there  should  be  more  locks  at  distillery 
No.  1713.     Thes.  &  ganger,  M.  A.  White  has  no  gauging-rod. 

McCoy,  s.  &.  g.  at  Daniels's  distillery  No.  647,  recently  assigned  to 
duty,  boards  more  than  two  miles  from  the  distillery,  gets  there  between 
9  and  10  a.  uk  after  work  is  begun,  and  leaves  early.  He  is  not  atten- 
tive or  faithful  in  the  discharge  of  his  duties. 

At  Powell's  distilleries  near  Morgan  ton,  Nos.  936  and  1714,  there  is 
a  large  number  of  empty  pkgs.  in  the  warehouses.  (See  Ganger  Delaney's 
report.)  One  i)ackage,  see  No.  58,  is  missing.  The  ofticer  on  duty, 
Bristol,  had  never  dis  covered  its  absence.  His  gauging  was  wild,  and 
his  proofs  runs  from  87  to  104,  all  marked  100.  He  has  been  long 
enough  in  the  service  to  have  become  efficient,  but  has  not  done  so. 

Ganger  Stewart  reports  distillery  No.  1307  as  needing  attention.  Au 
opening  in  the  spirit-pipe  permits  the  abstraction  of  spirits.  The  fer- 
menters  are  not  marked  with  number  or  capacity. 

D.  Fronabarger,  s.  &  g.  at  distillery  No.  1710,  sanctions,  through  ig- 
norance, irregularity  in  the  mashing  and  fermenting.  He  had  no  gaug- 
ing-rod, and  did  not  compreLend  his  duties. 

N.  L.  Whitley,  s.  and  g.  at  dist.  No.  1314,  has  no  locks  for  tail- 
boxes  of  the  worms  ;  had  two  barrels  whiskey  in  cistern  room  because 
he  had  no  w.  h.  stamps  to  aftix  to  them  ;  had  no  hydrometer;  distiller 
keeps  no  books;  fermenters  not  numbered  or  marked, 

E..  J.  Williamson,  s.  and  g.  at  distillery  1350,  does  not  weigh  his 
grain  received  or  issued,  but  permits  distiller  to  help  himself.     He 


506  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

leaves  tlie  distilleiy  wbeu  iu  operation  at  uoou..   He  has  no  gauging- 
rod.  ';::^~ 

JohnA.  Keener,  s.  and  g.  at  distillery  No.  1323;  he  has  no  form  18; 
no  gauging  or  wantage-rod,  and  the  distiller  has  no  books. 

While  the  above  irregularities  are  cited  in  detail,  abnost  all  of  the 
distilleries  shoukl  receive  a  close  examination  from  the  deputies  in  their 
respective  divisions,  with  a  view  to  i)utting  everything  in  better 
shape. 

In  conclusion,  I  beg  to  express  my  appreciation  of  the  arduous  and 
difficult  nature  of  the  work  in  your  division  as  revenue  agent,  and  trust 
and  fully  believe  that  you  Avill  succeed  in  bringing  the  same  up  to  a 
higher  standard.  B^OCt 

I  am,  very  respectfully,  yours, 

T.  C.  TEACIE, 

Revenue  Agent. 


The  following  papers  were  offered  in  evidence  by  the  Chairman  : 

ExMhits. 

Treasury  Department 

June  2Sth,  1882. 
Hon.  Z.  B.  Vance, 

U.  S.  /Senate,  Washington,  D.  C: 
Sir  :  In  reply  to  your  letter  of  the  27th  instant,  I  have  the  honor  to 
transmit  herewith,  for  the  use  of  the  Committee  of  Investigation  into 
affairs  in  the  sixtli  district  of  North  Carolina,  copies  of  papers  on  file 
in  this  department  relative  to  the  removal  in  1874,  and  the  reinstate- 
ment in  1875,  of  J.  J.  Mott,  late  collector  of  internal  revenue  in  said 
district. 

Yerv  respectfully, 

CHAS.  J.  FOLGEE, 

Secretary,  dec. 

United  States  Internal  Revenue, 
Supervisor's  Office,  Dist.  of  Ya.,  Carolinas,  Ga.,  &  Fla., 

Raleigh,  May  2d,  1874. 
P.  W.  Perry,  Esq., 

SK/xrvisoy  Int.  Rev.,  Raleigh,  IS^.  C.  : 
Sir  :  It  becomes  my  duty  to  report  the  following  facts  (;on(;crning  the 
office  and  affairs  of  Dr.  J.  J.  Mott,  coll.  of  int.  rev.  for  the  (ith  district 
of  N.  C. : 

1.  At  tlu!  A])ril  tHrm  of  the  U.  S.  dist.  court  (1874)  indictments  were 
loiiiid  against  five  gangers  of  th(;()th  dist.  N.  C.  for  fraudulent  accounts, 
these  a(;<*onnts  embracing  altogether  seventeen  months.  Nearly  all,  if 
not  «*.very  one,  ()f  these  fr;iiidulent  accounts  were  made  out  for  tliese 
giiugers  in  Dr.  Mott's  oHice  by  .].  A.  Clark,  his  chief  clerk  and  de])uty. 

2.  These  iicconnts  were  sustained  by  forged  vouchers,  m;iny  of  which 
wei-e  ma<le  by  Ihis  (,'l:irl<,  an<l  in  some  instiinces  the  forging  of  the  sig- 
nal nies  to  ihese  voucheis  was  done  by  Clark. 

3.  Clark  admitletj  to  me.  that  lu'  n<'\'er  administered  the  oath  to 
gangers  on  llieir  accounts  wlier*'  his  signature  is  affixed  to  the  Jurat, 
lint  il  tplite  icceiil  1\ . 

I.   Deputy  ('(.II.  Clark  has  been  Ibi'  the  past  special  tax  year  ending 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NOKTH    CAROLINA.  507 

April  30tli,  1874,  a  surety  on  the  bond  of  a  distiller  in  the  0th  dist.  N, 
0.  for  the  i)ast  four  months,  with  the  kiiowledg'e  of  Collector  Mott. 

5.  Deputy  coH's  almost  invariably  si.uned  tlieir  ])ay-rolls  in  blank; 
never,  so  far  as  1  can  ascertain,  swore  to  them  or  saw  them  after  they 
were  hlled  u]). 

G.  W.  H.  Kestler  was  ai)pointed  dei)'t'  coll.  Never  did  any  duty  in 
that  cai)acity,  and  received  sixty-tive  dollars  pay.  Mott  has  received 
credit  on  his  disbursinji'  account  for  eleven  hundred  and  twenty-tive 
dollars  i)aid  Kestler  for  services  as  de])'t'  coll.  for  the  last  (juarter  of 
1872  and  the  tirst  and  secoiul  (piarters  of  1873. 

7.  ^lott  has  received  credit  on  his  disbursing  accounts  for  nine  hun- 
dred dollars  paid  W.  P,  Drake  for  services  as  dep't'  coll.  for  the  last 
quarter  of  1872  and  the  first  quarter  of  1873.  Drake  never  rendered 
any  service  as  dep't'  coll. 

8.  Mott  received  credit  on  his  disbui'sing  accounts  for  two  hundred 
and  fifty  dollars  ])aid  P.  II.  Martin  for  st-rvices  as  dep't'  coll.  during  the 
second  quarter  of  1873.     Martin  has  never  received  any  pay. 

9.  There  are  a  number  of  other  si nnlar  affairs  connected  with  Mott's 
disbursing  accounts,  involving  various  sums  ranging  in  amount  from 
one  hundred  dollars  to  five  or  six  hundred  each. 

10.  Mott  has  kept  J.  Q.  A.  Bryan  in  the  ofHce  of  dep't'  coll.  since  the 
early  part  of  1873,  assigned  to  duty  in  the  counties  of  Wilk's  and  Yad- 
kin. These  counties  are  remarkably  notorious  for  illicit  distillation  ; 
none  more  so  in  the  State,  but  Bryan  has  never. broken  up  an  illicit  dis- 
tillery nor  reported  a  violation  of  internal  revenue  law. 

11.'  ]\Iott  ignores  his  duty  under  the  a(;t  of  March  3,  1873,  relative  to 
reporting  violations  of  revenue  laws  to  the  dist.  att'y. 

12.  Mott  allows  the  distillers  to  nominate  their  own  storekeepers. 

13.  Mott's  course  with  relation  to  assignment  of  officers  to  distiller- 
ies is  such  as  to  occasion  strong  suspicion  that  he  winks  at  frauds,  if 
he  is  not  directly  im])licated  in  it. 

14.  In  two  cases  Mott  afhxed  his  signature  to  the  recommendations 
of  two  persons  for  appointment  in  the  Post-Oftice  Dep't,  upon  the  terms 
that  he  should  receive  a  consideration  therefor. 

Concerning  the  foregoing  statements  I  desire  to  give  the  following 
more  detailed  account,  referring  to  the  subjects  by  the  same  numbers 
which  they  bear  in  the  i)receding  portion  of  this  re])ort: 

1  and  2.  1  have  two  witnesses  who  will  testify  that  Clark  made  out 
the  fraudulent  ganger's  bills.  The  handwriting  of  these  bills  is  incon- 
testably  that  of  Clark.  It  appears  to  have  been  for  a  long  time  a  cus- 
tom of  many  of  the  gangers  to  enq)loy  Clark  to  make  their  bills  for 
them.  The  handwriting  of  a  large  portion  of  the  forged  vouchers,  and 
of  some  of  the  forged  signatures,  is  just  as  clearly  Clark's.  1  have 
made  a  test  of  this  handwriting  of  the  signatures,  and  have  never 
failed  to  have  it  recognized  by  those  who  are  familiar  with  Clark's 
handwriting.  1  can  i)rove  that  the  fraudulent  bills  of  one  ganger 
covering  six  months,  and  as  large  frauds  as  any,  were  made  by  Clark 
himself. 

4.  In  December  last  I  discovered  that  Clark  was  surety  on  the  distil- 
ler's bond  of  W.  A.  Daniel,  0th  dist.  N.  C.  I  called  Coll.  Mott's  atten- 
tion to  the  matter,  and  he  told  me  he  did  not  know  it  before,  and  said 
that  the  bond  was  api>roved  by  the  assessor  of  the  district  in  the  pre- 
vious May.  I  then  had  a  conversation  with  both  ^lott  and  Clark  on 
the  subject  and  called  their  attention  to  the  law,  I  understood  tliem 
both  to  promise  that  a  new  bond  should  be  required  April  21st,  1874. 
I  asked  Coll.  Mott  if  the  bond  had  been  given,  and  he  replied  that  he 


508  COLLECTIOX    OF    INTERNAL    RKVENUE    IN. 

^^ supposed  it  had."  On  tbe  followiiiii  day  1  saw  Daniel  liinisclf  and 
asked  Inni  if  lie  bad  <iiven  a  new  bond.  He  said  be  bad  not.  bnt  conld 
do  so  at  any  time  witbont  any  inconvenience;  wonld  do  so  tbat  day  if 
desired. 

o.  My  information  on  tbis  point  is  very  positive  and  reliable. 

G,  7,  and  9.  In  addition  totbese  statements,  I  bave  to  say  tbat  Mott 
drew  pay  for  W.  A.  IMcCorkle,  dep't'  coll.,  from  July  Istj  1873.  Mc- 
Corkle's  services  began  about  the  tirst  of  Sept.,  3873,  and  ended  al)out 
tbe  tirst  of  July,  1874.  Mott  was  credited  for  bis  services  at  the  rate 
of  fifteen  bundred  dollars  per  year,  but  bas  paid  only  at  tbe  rate  of 
twelve  bundred.  Mott  drew  pay  for  Ramsey  at  tbe  rate  of  eighteen 
bundred  a  portion  of  tbe  time,  and  fifteen  bundred  tbe  remain<ler,  and 
has  paid  him  less  than  twelve  bundred  dollars  per  year.  There  has  been 
no  final  settlement  with  Eamsey,  Mott  claiming  tbat  Eamsey  is  in- 
debted on  sojne  old  lists,  which  llamsey  denies.  Mott  declares  that 
Eamsey  will  not  settle,  and  Eamsey  says  that  Mott  will  not  make  a 
final  settlement.  Mott  drew  pay  for  J.  Q.  A.  Bryan  froin  July  1st, 
1873,  at  tbe  rate  of  fifteen  hundred  dollars  per  year;  and  about  the 
last  of  December,  1873,  Br\ant  said  to  my  informant  tbat  he  had  re- 
ceived but  two  hundred  dollars.  I  Inive  good  reason  to  believe  tbat 
Mott  never  i)aid  N.  W.  Lillington  or  W.  M.  Walker  anything  for  serv- 
ices as  dep't'  coll.,  although  he  bas  received  credit  for  three  hundred 
dollars  paid  to  Lillington  and  two  bundred  and  fifty  paid  to  Walker. 

10.  Tlie  counties  of  Wilk's  and  Yadkin  are  full  of  illicit  distilleries^ 
and  violations  of  int.  rev.  laws  are  notoriously  frequent.  So  general 
are  these  violations  tbat  the  whole  community  is  banded  together,  and 
deputy  marshals  are  unable  to  serve  warrants  or  make  arrests  there. 
A.  U.  S.  commissioner  was  driven  out  of  Yadkin  only  a  few  months  ago^ 
because  he  bad  warrants  against  a  number  of  parties  for  illicit  <lis- 
tillation.  I  talked  with  Coll.  Mott  concerning  tbe  state  of  affairs,  and 
Bryan's  neglect  of  duty.  Some  time  after\var<l  Mott  informed  me 
that  be  bad  talked  with  Bryan  on  the  subject,  and  said  that  Bryan  told 
him  that  if  he  (Mott)  wanted  the  distillers  reported  and  broken  up  he 
(Bryan)  could  doit.  Mott  left  the  impression  on  7ny  mind  that  there 
would  be  a  change  in  tbis  respect,  but  I  know  of  no  reports  of  viola- 
tions of  law  by  Bryan,  tho'  the  last  conversation  I  alluded  to  in  the 
paragrai)li  occurred  in  Feb.  last. 

13.  A  ganger  rei)orted  to  Mott  certain  facts  Avhich  indicated  strongly  and 
fully  satisfied  tbe  ganger  that  spirits  were  removed  from  tbe  distillery 
without  payment  of  tax.  His  report  was  not  well  received,  ami  he  was 
short'y  after  removed  froni  ofiice  on  a  ])retext  which  if  it  had  been  en- 
forced would  bave  removed  every  other  ganger  in  tbe  district.  T  after- 
ward influenced  Mott  to  assign  a  ganger  to  this  distillery  whom  I  knew 
couhl  not  be  tami)ered  with.  ^Vbout  the  same  time  tlu>  store-keeper  at 
tbis  distillery  was  removed  from  oltice  on  my  report  of  bis  fraudulent 
practices,  and  another  w.hom  1  believed  to  be  reliable  was  assigned  to 
the  distillery.  As  soon  as  the  distiller  learned  of  these  changes  he 
communicated  with  Mott,  ami  neither  of  the  men  above  referred  to  was 
sent  to  this  distillery.  I  bave  tlie  very  best  reasons  for  believing  that 
a  week  seldom  passes  without  <nie  or  more  barrels  of  distilled  spiiits 
being  remove<l  from  tbis  disrillery  without  paynu^nt  of  tax. 

14.  I  give  these  fa<;ts  as  an  illustration  of  his  character,  and  iR)t  as 
being  c<nicerned  in  revenue  alfairs.  llci  has  madearrangenu'iitsto  dtMiy 
the  tiiitb  of  these  statements,  l)ut  I  know  of  two  resi)onsible  ])arties  to 
wlnun  be  ack Miiwlcdged  t  bat  the  facts  were  as  1  have  stated, 

hi  (•(mciiisiun,  I   desire   to  say  tbat   there  are  somiMveigbty  facts  in 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  509 

favor  oi'  Coll.  Mott.  Tlie  country  embraced  in  liis  district  is  a-  ditticult 
one  to  manage.  It  is  a  dii'licult  nuitter  to  get  good  officers.  He  has 
increased  tiie  revenue  receipts  in  liis  district  materially.  He  has  built 
ii|>  a  large  number  of  legal  distilleries  where  there  were  very  few  ])efore. 
Some  of  his  troubles  come  directly  from  his  zeal  in  encouraging  these 
distilleis  and  from  the  diiliciilty  in  obtaining  suitable  men  to  till  the 
ofticial  positions  which  these  distilleries  necessitate. 
Respectfully  submitted. 

A.  M.  ORANE, 

Rev.  Agent. 


No.  4302. 


U.  S.  Internal  Revenue,  Supervisor's  Office, 

District  of  Virginias,  Oarolinas,  Georgia,  and  Florida, 

Raleigh,  N.  0.,  May  4,  1874. 
Hon.  P.  W.  Perry, 

^ujiervisor  Int.  Rrv.,  Raleigh,  R.  C. 

Sir  :  I  desire  to  call  your  attention  to  the  following  statement,  and 
ask  your  instructions  : 

AVhile  in  attendance  on  the  U.  S.  dist.  court  for  tlie  western  district 
of  N.  C,  at  Statesville,  attempting  to  secure  the  indictment  of  int. 
rev.  gangers,  for  })resenting  fraudulent  bills  and  forged  vouchers,  I 
learned  that  tbe  deputy  collector,  before  whom  the  oath  on  the  bills 
api)eared  to  have  been  administered,  had  never  administered  the  oath  as 
his  certificate  set  forth.  This  prevented  the  indictment  of  the  gangers 
under  sec.  00  of  the  act  of  July  13,  1800,  the  only  revenue  l*w  provid- 
ing a  x)unishmeut  for  the  offense.  They  were,  however,  indicted  under 
the  act  of  March  2,  1803,  which  provides  for  the  punishment  of  general 
fraudulent  claims. 

in  the  mean  time  I  obtained  proof  that  J.  A.  Clark,  the  deputy  col- 
lector in  question,  made  out  the  fraudulent*  bills,  and  some,  if  not  all, 
the  forged  vouchers.  I  then  asked  to  have  him  indicted  under  sec.  98 
of  the  act  of  July  20,  1808,  which  very  clearly  defines  the  offenses 
which  lie  had  committed;  but  the  district  attorney  declined,  on  the 
ground  that  a  deputy  collector  is  not  an  '-officer  or  agent  appointed  and 
acting  under  the  authority  of  any  revenue  law  of  the  United  States,''^  to 
which  two  classes  of  persons  the  jtrovisions  of  this  section  are  limited. 

1  also  asked  to  have  this  Clark  indicted  under  sec.  97  of  the  act  of 
July  20,  1808,  because  he  was  surety  on  a  distiller's  bond,  and  therefore 
interested  in  the  production  of  distilled  spirits  ;  but  I  was  met  with  the 
same  statement,  that  a  deputy  collector  is  not  a  revenue  ofidcer. 

I  then  asked  to  have  this  Clark  indicted  under  the  general  act  of 
March  2,  1803,  which  also  applied  in  general  terms  to  the  offenses  he 
had  committed;  but  the  district  attorney  declined  on  the  ground  that 
the  application  of  this  law  to  the  revenue  offenses  was  a  new  thing,  and 
he  did  not  wish  to  proceed  further  under  it  until  he  had  tested  it  in  the 
cases  of  the  gangers. 

All  this  trouble  arose,  first,  from  a  failure  of  a  deputy  collector  to 
administer  oaths  as  he  is  required  to  do,  and  as  he  had  certified  that  he 
did  do  ;  and,  second,  from  the  fact  that  the  district  attorney  had  no  law 
that  would  punish  him,  because  he  is  not  an  officer. 

The  first  is  a  very  important  point,  and  one  upon  which   too  much 


510  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

stress  cannot  l>e  laid,  because  of  the  peculiarity  of  the  revenue  laws  in 
affixing-  the  penalty,  not  to  the  fraud,  but  to  the  perjury  of  a  false  oath. 
On  the  second  point,  I  desire  to  be  referred  to  an  authoritative  ruling 
or  law  which  will  fix  some  puuishnieut  ui)on  deputy  collectors,  like  this 
one,  who  violate  the  idain  provisions  of  the  revenue  laws  under  which 
they  hold  their  appointments. 

Very  respectfully,  your  ob't  serv't, 

A.  M.  CRAXE, 

Bev.  AgH. 


«TATESV1LLE,  N.  C,  May  ]."),  1874. 

Hon.  J.  W.  Douglass, 

Commissioner  of  Int.  Bevenue  : 

Sir  :  In  pursuance  of  my  letter  of  the  7th  inst.,  I  respectfully  sub- 
mit my  answer  to  the  abstract  of  charges  furnished  me  from  the  report 
of  A.  M.  Crane,  dated  May  2nd,  1874. 

1st  Charge. — "  Fraudulent  accounts,  for  which  gangers  were  in- 
dicted, were  made  out  for  the  gangers  by  J.  A.  Clarke  Collector  Mott's 
chief  clerk  and  deputy." 

Answer.  I  do  not  know  of  my  own  knowledge  that  any  of  these  ac- 
counts alluded  to  were  made  out  by  Clarke.  I  think  I  understood  that 
some  of  the  gangers,  on  account  of  inexperience,  got  him  to  assist  them 
in  making  out  their  accounts.  I  received  some  of  the  accounts  from 
time  to  time,  but  not  all.  In  assigning  gangers  to  woi'k,  which  I  always 
kept  under  my  own  supervision,  I  attempted  to  arrange  it  so  as  to  make 
as  little  expense  to  the  government  as  possible,  and  left  the  accounts 
to  be  examined  by  Mr.  Clarke,  with  instructions  to  approve  them  if 
they  were  reasonable.  The  details  of  the  office  were  performed  by  my 
clerk  and  deputies.  A  general  supervision  of  the  district,  which  is  very 
difficult,  and  the  sole  charge  and  execution  of  all  the  general  and  im- 
l)ortant  correspondence  connected  with  the  office  was  as  much,  to  say 
the  least,  as  I  could  attend  to.  I  will  speak  further  of  the  difficulties 
in  mauaging  the  district  in  another  part  of  my  statement.  Mr.  Clarke's 
exi)lanati()U  of  this  charge  will  be  allowed  to  accompany  this  statement, 
and  I  hoi)e  will  be  read  also. 

2nd  Charge. — "  Forged  vouchers,  sustaining  above-mentioned  ac- 
counts, were  luade  by  Mr.  Clarke." 

Answer.  I  have  no  knowledge  of  any  such  thing.  Please  read  Mr. 
Clarke's  explanation  as  to  this. 

;iRD  (JiiARGE. — "  Clarke  admitted  that  until  recently  he  never  admin- 
istered oath  to  gangers  on  accounts,  though  he  signed  the  jurat." 

Answer.  It  has  not  been  customary  for  revenue  officers  to  administer 
these  oaths,  and  I  understood  that  this  has  been  generally  the  case. 
Clarke  says  that  he  was  not  in  the  habit  of  doing  it  in  the  4th  dis- 
tri(;t,  wheii  chief  ch-rk  an<l  dejjuty  there.  Sin(;e  the  circular  instruct- 
ing that  it    si Id  be  done  has  l)een  sent  us,  the  instructions  have  been 

strictl\'  adhered  to. 

I'lii  (  WiAKCK.— "  ( 'laike  was  siiicty  on  distiHei's  bond,  with  Collector 
Mott's  i<  now  ledge." 

Answer.  I  did  not  iviiow  it  u|»  to  a  <H'rtain  time,  when  I  ordeied  it  to 
be,  eliange(|. 

r)TU  CwAuai:. — ''  Drpnty  c<»ll<Mtors  signed  jtayroll  in  blank  almost 
invariablv." 

Answer.  Tiiis  is  liiir.     Mi'.   Claike  tells  me,  that  as  a  general  thing, 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  511 

lie  kept  blanks  signed  by  the  {le])uties,  as  a  matter  of  convenience  in 
making;  np  the  qnarterly  accounts,  as  the  deputies  were  most  likcdy  to 
be  out  of  the  way  when  their  signatures  would  be  wanted  for  tiiis  pur- 
l^ose.  The  salary  was  known  to  be  a  stated  sum,  and  we  were  aware 
of  the  service  rendered.  We  are  now  following  the  recent  instructions^ 
and  administering  the  oaths  in  every  case. 

Gtii  Charcie. — "  Kestler  received  pay  as  deputy,  but  never  did  serv- 
ice in  that  capacity." 

Answer.  Mr.  Kestler  was  appointed  a  deputy  at  the  earnest  solicita- 
tion of  prominent  men.  I  kept  him  a  short  time  and  found  he  would 
not  suit  me  as  such,  and  he  was  discharged. 

7tii  Charge. — "  $950  paid  Drake,  who  never  did  any  work." 

Answer.  Mr.  Drake,  one  of  the  publishers  of  the  only  IJepublican 
journal  in  this  district,  was  ai)pointed  a  deputy  in  good  faith,  but  did 
very  little  service  as  such,  for  reason  that  shortly  after  his  appoint- 
ment, the  main  printer  in  the  newspaper  office  became  disabled. 
Printers  are  scarce  in  this  section,  and  the  Presidential  cami)aign 
being  on  hand,  all  such  were  tightly  engaged.  Consequently,  Mr. 
Drake  renewed  his  operations  at  the  newspaper  office,  while  his  work 
as  deputy  was  faithfully  and  efficiently  discharged  by  others  employed 
for  the  purpose. 

8th  CHARGE.-^This  is  relative  to  P.  E.  Martin  having  been  era- 
ployed  in  the  same  way. 

Answer.  Mr.  Martin  did  service  as  deputy,  but  'never  received  pay 
as  such,  He  was  named,  with  others,  on  the  1st  of  May,  1873,  as  the 
deputies  employed  in  the  district  at  that  time.  The  name  of  H.  C-. 
Mott,  then  acting  as  deputy,  should  have  appeared  on  the  June  ab- 
stract, Form  63,  and  his  vouchers  should  have  been  taken.  Clarke 
made  a  mistake  in  sending  Kestler's.  Mott  did  good  service  as  dep- 
uty. He  captured  three  (3)  illicit  distilleries,  collected  the  special  taxes 
in  his  division,  and  did  other  necessary  work. 

The  compensation  following  the  outgoing  of  the  assessors  had  not 
been  allowed  at  the  time  that  this  June  abstract  was  forwarded,  al- 
though a  letter  had  been  written  requesting  compensation  and  sent  to 
the  department.  This  June  abstract  was  based  upon  that  letter.  The 
vouchers  were  made  accordingly.  Clarke  says  he  thought  that  itAvas, 
as  usual,  necessarj"  to  send  up  the  abstract  at  this  time,  and  thought 
he  ought  to  make  out  the  account  in  accordance  with  the  compensa- 
tion already  applied  for.  This  amount  was  not  allowed  ;  hence  the 
disparagement  in  the  abstract  and  the  adjustment. 

The  above  answer  will  probably  explain  the  9th  charge  as  to  "  many 
similar  cases"  though  I  have  deputies  who  were  employed  secretly, 
until  their  operations  ideutihed  them  with  the  service.  The  illicit  oper- 
ations in  this  district  have  been  so  formidable,  and  of  such  a  character 
that  I  thought  it  was  jjroper  for  me  to  exercise  some  discretion  in  its 
management. 

9th  CHARGE. — "Bryan,  deputy  collector,  kept  in  an  illicit  distillery 
district,  and  never  broke  up  one  or  reported  any  violations." 

Answer.  Bryan  has  charge  of  a  mountainous  section  of  the  district^ 
which  by  many  of  those  who  know  much  about  it,  is  regarded,  in  an  in- 
ternal revenue  point  of  view,  as  outside  the  jurisdiction  of  the  United 
States.  I  do  not  so  regard  it,  but  I  am  satisfied  that  it  would  be  un- 
safe for  one  who  was  known  as  actively  engaged  against  illicit  disril- 
lers  to  pass  unattended  through  some  portions  of  Bryan's  division.  I 
have  advised  Bryan  to  the  course  he  is  pursuing,  with  a  view  to  carr\  ing 
out  the  only  successful  means  of  putting  an  end  to  illicit  distillation  in 


512  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

tbe  mouutaiu  regions  of  this  State,  and  that  is  the  establishment  of 
grain  distilleries  nnder  the  revenue  laws.  He  has  done  jiiore  to  aid  me 
in  this  than  any  other  man  in  the  district.  Distilleries  an;  going  up 
all  through  his  division,  and  we  will  soon  have  such  interests  estab- 
lished in  connection  with  them  that  it  will  be  an  easy  matter  to  do 
what  has  heretofore  been  an  impossibility  to  accomplish.  One  of  these 
interests  is  the  selection  of  officers  from  the  localities  where  the  distil- 
leries are  located.  They  are  familiar  with  the  surroundings  and  will 
give  information  and  assistance.  Another  interest  is  that  of  the  distil- 
lers themselves,  who  object  to  competition  in  the  purchase  of  grain,  and 
the  sale  of  spirits  by  illicit  operators  ;  consequently  each  distillery  po- 
lices its  own  neighborhood.  Bryan  has  also  given  me  information  as 
to  illicit  workings,  but  all  the  force  I  could  control  has  been  used  in 
another  section  of  the  district,  which  I  could  more  easily  reach,  and 
which  has  not  yet  been  overcome,  although  since  last  Maj",  1  think  there 
have  been  over  forty  (40)  illicit  distilleries  broken  up  by  this  force.  I 
thought  it  useless  to  go  to  Bryan's  division  w^hen  I  had  ample  held  for 
operation  and  a  more  accessible  locality.  Bryan  could  do  nothing-  by 
himself,  and  by  making  fruitless  demonstrations  in  this  direction  would 
only  unfit  himself  for  the  good  that  he  is  doing. 

The  charge  that  I  "  ignore  duty  relative  to  reporting  violation  of  law 
to  the  district  attorney,"  I  think  is  unfair  to  me.  I  may  have  failed  to 
report  some  trivial  cases  which  have  come  under  my  observation.  I 
think,  however,  that  it  is  not  always  best  to  i^rosecute  cases  where 
there  is  a  strong-  probability  of  a  failure  to  convict,  as  it  is  expensive 
to  the  government,  and  injures  the  service.  In  defense  of  my  course 
with  regard  to  this  charge  I  inclose  herewith  letters  from  the  district 
judge,  and  the  two  district  attorneys.  Without  any  disrespect  to  these 
honorable  gentlemen,  I  furnish  copies  of  their  letters,  written  in  a 
plainer  hand,  which  will  accompany  the  original  letters. 

To  the  charge  that  distillers  are  allowed  to  nominate  their  own  store- 
keepers, I  venture  the  assertion  that  not  one  of  these  distillers  will  say 
I  promised  him  his  own  choice  as  store-keeper.  I  have  been  careful  to 
avoid  having  enemies  of  distillers  assigned  to  them,  at  the  same  time 
1  have  exercised  my  own  judgment  as  to  those  appointments  and  did 
Avhat  I  thought  best  for  the  protection  of  the  service  and  the  interest  of 
the  government. 

The  charge  that  I  "  apparently  winked  at  fraud  in  the  assignment  of 
«tore-keepers"  is  so  vague  and  general,  that  1  am  at  a  loss  to  know  what 
it  means,  unless  it  has  reference  to  the  assignment  of  Benbow  and  Mc- 
Kee,  the  only  cases  of  wliich  I  have  heard  any  comi)laint.  If  there  was 
any  fraiul  conn(M't(Ml  with  eitlier  of  these  distilleries,  I  never  heard  of  it, 
or  ev«^n  lieard  it  alleged.  1  ncner  met  tiie  distiller  to  whose  warehouse 
Mr.  lienbow  was  assigned  until  after  the  assignment  was  made.  He 
li\'es  1.1  miles  from  this  ollice.  1  have  never  at  any  time  seen  either  of 
the  lirm  composing  the  company  to  whose  distiUery  Mclvee  was  as- 
signed.    That  establishment  is  ;")()  miles  oil". 

As  to  the  charge  that  I  "  recommended  appointment  of  persons  in 
the  rost-Oriice  J>epaitment  for  a  consideration,"  I  inclose;  letter  of  1\ 
\j.  lios(;  on  liie  subject,  he  being  the  individual  concerning  whom  I  un- 
dej-stand  such  r<;porr  originated. 

Mr.  ('larke,  my  clerk  and  dei)uty,  while  he  has  shown  great  careless- 
ness in  many  important  mattei's  in  conneeiion  with  the  ofhce,  alwa^'S 
kept  tin;  stamp  account  and  all  the  money  atfairs  with  which  1  in- 
tiiist<Ml  him  in  an  entii-ely  satisfactory  manner.  I  vahuMl  him  greatly 
on  this  ;icc(»Mnt.      lie,  was    highly  r<'eoiMmended    to    me    h\,  lion.  P.  W. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  513 

Perry,  the  supervisor,  and  Collector  Young,  of  the  4tli  Nortli  Carolina 
district,  as  an  able,  honest,  and  ettl(;ient  man  in  this  business.  He  was 
nnder  the  eye  of  both  these  gentlemen  as  a  clerk  and  deputy  for  a 
long  tinie,  and  1  snpposed  learned  in  a  great  measure  from  them.  He 
brought  his  knowledge  of  the  business  with  him,  and  says  he  worked 
here  on  the  experience  he  had  gained.  There  is  no  doubt  that  a  good 
deal  of  his  neglect  can  be  fairly  attributed  to  the  immense  amonnt  of 
work  he  had  to  do. 

1  came  into  the  office  a  little  over  two  years  ago,  and  notwithstand- 
ing the  reduction  of  the  tax  on  tobacco,  which  is  the  i)rincipal  source  of 
revenue,  1  increased  the  collections  the  first  year  over  tifty  thousand 
dollars.  There  would  still  be  an  increase  over  last  year,  if  the  taxes 
were  paid  on  the  whisky  and  tobacco  remaining  in  the  warehouses  and 
factories,  the  marketing  of  which  the  panic  has  i^revented. 

There  are  now  forty-seven  (47)  grain  distilleries  constructed  in  the 
district,  which  have  been  mainly  worked  np  by  my  own  personal  exer- 
tions. There  were  only  two  running  in  the  district  when  I  took  the 
place.  In  the  last  eight  or  ten  months  these  distilleries  have  been  con- 
structed so  rapidly  that  they  have  caused  trouble  and  confusion,  which 
could  not  well  be  avoided.  They  are  scattered  over  a  large  extent  of 
country  with  poor  facilities  for  communication  even  through  the  mails. 

A  very  few  men  in  this  section  know  anything  about  the  proper  way 
to  conduct  these  distilleries.  Out  of  the  large  number  aj^pointed  to 
manage  them,  it  was  simply  out  of  the  question  to  look  after  all.  Some 
failed  to  do  their  duty  through  ignorance,  others  through  neglect,  and 
still  others  from  a  disposition  to  do  wrong;  consequently  the  force  has 
been  subject  to  continual  changes.  When  I  found  that  one  of  my  men 
was  neglectful,  or  lacked  capacity,  if  I  could  get  a  better  one,  I  would 
remove  him.  This  is  as  much  as  the  President  coidd  do.  Two  of  these 
prosecuted  gangers  were  discharged  by  me  (months  before  ajiy  investi- 
gation of  their  accounts)  for  misconduct  in  another  particular. 

Added  to  all  my  troubles  in  connection  with  this  ofQce,  1  have  had 
a  secret  enemy  in  the  person  of  one  of  my  i)rincipal  deputies,  who  has 
failed  to  do  his  duty,  in  consequence  of  which  the  office  is  now  behind, 
and  obstructed  my  management  whenever  he  could  do  so  without  being 
fairly  discovered.  I  kept  him  longer  than  I  otherwise  would  have  done 
on  account  of  his  mechanical  knowledge  and  exi^erieuce  in  the  construc- 
tion of  these  distilleries. 

As  collector  of  this  district,  I  have  acted  for  the  good  of  the  service, 
and  in  the  interest  of  the  government  and  the  party  to  which  I  belong. 

1  feel  that  I  have  been  as  unselfish  as  it  is  possible  for  a  man  to  be 
in  all  that  I  have  done. 
Very  respectfully, 

J.  J.  MOTT. 


United  States  Internal  Eevenue, 
Agenfs  Office,  Salishury,  N.  C,  October  27,  1874. 
Hon.  J.  W.  Douglass, 

Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue,  Washington,  D.  C. 

Sir  :  I  have  the  honor  to  report  that  from  information  obtained  since 

the  beginning  of  this  term  of  the  U.  S.  dist.  court  at  Statesville,  N.  C, 

I  am  fully  satisfied  that  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of  internal  revenue,  6th 

dist.  N.  C,  has  presented  to  your  office  and  received  credit  therefor  on 

his  disbursing  account  forged  vouchers  on  form ,  purporting  to  be 

S.  Mis.  lie 33 


514  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

signed  by  W.  H.  Kessler  as  deputy  collector,  on  which  forged  and 
fraudulent he  received  credit  to  the  amount  of  $1,125,00.  He  ac- 
tually paid  Kessler  only  $65.00.  The  vouchers  are  for  the  quarters 
ending  Dec.  31,  1872 ;  March  31,  1873,  and  June  30,  1873.  There  is  no 
doubt  about  establishing  the  forgery  of  two  of  these  vouchers.  The 
evidence  is  complete.  The  other  voucher  was  signed  by  Kessler  in 
blank. 

On  account  of  my  report  concerning  J.  A.  Clarke,  one  of  Collector 
Mott's  deputies  and  bis  clerk,  Clarke  was  removed  from  office.  Notwith- 
standing this  Mott  has  kept  him  as  an  employe  of  the  office.  He  was 
indicted  at  this  term  of  court  for  being  concerned  in  the  making  of  a 
large  number  of  false  gangers' bills,  for  the  making  of  which  the  gaugers 
have  also  been  indicted. 

I  have  reported  these  facts  to  Supervisor  Perry. 
Very  respectfully,  your  ob't  serv't, 

A,  M.  CRANE, 

Bev.  AgH. 


No.  0. — Statement  shoicing  condition  of  the  office  of  Jno.  J.  Mott,  collector 
(5th  district  of  North  Carolina,  at  the  close  of  business  hours  on  the  13th 
day  of  February,  1878, — Exa^nined  by  W.  t.  GlarJc. 

(Table  accompanying,  etc.) 

(Organization  of  district.     Divisions  and  deputies  in  charge.) 

Give  character  of  each  deputy  for  intelligence,  capacity,  and  responsi- 
bility. 

There  are  10  divisions : 

1.  In  charge  of  W.  J.  Coite,  h'dq'rs  Statesville;  comprises  the  county 
of  Mecklenberg  and  city  of  Charlotte.  Mr.  Coite  has,  as  he  says,  been 
in  the  service  9  years ;  and  was  selected  by  Collector  Mott  as  an  exper- 
ienced officer  to  take  general  supervision  of  the  office.  He  visits  Char- 
lotte about  once  each  week,  and  is  supposed  to  spend  the  remainder  of 
his  time  in  the  office.  He  has  "  charge  of  Fornis  108,  the  disbursing  ac- 
count, 23  supplemental,  all  grain  distilleries,  surveys,  &c.,  i&c,  &c." 

It  is  evident  that  he  lias  charge  of  much  more  than  is  for  the  good  of 
the  service,  considering  the  manner  in  which  he  conducts  his  business. 
With  a  proper  sense  of  his  duties,  ho  could  revolutionize  the  office  and 
make  it,  as  it  is  not  now,  respectable  aud  commendable.  He  should 
give  away  his  dog,  throw  away  his  sporting  gun,  and  devote  himself 
conscientiously  to  the  dntios  of  his  office,  or  resign  from  the  service 
upon  which  he  noiv  refiects  no  credit  whatever. 

Salary,  $1,300  and  $100. 

2d.  In  charge  of  H.  Devin^,  of  Statesville,  includes 4  counties;  service, 
2  years;  salary,  $1,100  and  $400. 

3d.  In  charge  of  W.  F.  Bailey,  of  Statesville,  includes  3  counties; 
service^  5  years;  salary,  $1,000  and  $100. 

4th.  In  charge  of  J.  A.  liryan,  of  Wilkesboro',  includes  6  counties; 
service,  5  y'rs;  salary,  $1,000  aud  $100. 

5th.  In  charge  of  F.  (JaMwell,  of  Sherril's  Ford,  includes  3  counties; 
H<',rvice,  1  year;  salary,  $1,000  and  $100. 

0th.  In  <*-liarge  ol  M.  ii.  leaves,  of  liutherfordton,  includes  3  counties; 
service,  3  years ;  salary,  $000  aiul  $200. 


THE    8IXTH     DISTKh    r    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  515 

7tli.  In  charge  of  A.  B.  Gillespie,  of  Morgantown,  includes  5  counties  j 
service,  1  year;  salary,  $1,000  and  $400. 

8th.  In  charge  of  (j.  W.  Williams,  of  Asheville,  includes  3  counties: 
service,  1  year ;  salary,  $000  and  $200. 

9th.  In  charge  of  M.  W.  Jewitt,  of  Asheville,  includes  3  counties; 
service,  4  years;  salary,  $1,100  and  $400. 

10th.  In  charge  of  F.  K.  Axley,  of  Murphy,  inchides  5  counties  ;  serv- 
ice, 1  year;  salary,  $900  and  $200. 

There  are  4  gangers  and  40  store  keepers. 

PRINCIPAL   SOURCES   OF   REVENUE. 

There  are  50  grain  distilleries,  1,000  fruit  distilleries,  5  cigar  and  75 
tobacco  manufactories,  0  dealers  in  leaf  tobacco,  7  rectifiers,  26  whole- 
sale li(iuor  dealers,  and  2  banks  and  bankers. 

The  nearest  distillery  to  the  office  is  lA  miles  distant,  the  most  remote 
260  miles. 

It  is  a  difficult  district  to  manage,  and  requires  men  of  the  highest 
•order  of  courage  and  endurance  to  make  the  service  eftective. 

Tlie  impetus  which  they  receive  at  headquaiters  is  not  such  as  to  in- 
sure the  best  results. 

Dei)uty  Coite  says  the  amounts  witli  rectifiers  are  kept  by  the  depu- 
ties of  divisions  where  there  ore  rectifiers. 

GENERAL    SUMMARY. 

Collector  Mott  should  be  required  : 

1.  To  fit  up  his  office  in  a  manner  and  style  which  will  preserve  the 
l)ublic  records,  and  afford  the  necessary  facilities  for  the  transaction  of 
the  public  business. 

2.  To  insistthat  all  his  clerks,  including  Deputy  Coite,  shall,  in  future 
avoid  blotting,  scratching,  or  defacing  in  any  manner  the  records,  and 
shall  keep  them  clean  and  in  a  business-like  style. 

3.  To  immediately  cause  all  the  stub-books  to  be  returned  to  the  de- 
partment. 

4.  To  have  his  internal  revenue  record  and  lists  bound  and  conveniently 
placed  for  the  reference  of  himself  and  his  subordinates. 

5  To  provide  a  proper  place  for  his  ,statio7iery,  where  it  will  be  pro- 
tected from  dust  and  tilth. 

6.  To  give  such  constant  attention  to  his  lists  as  will  enable  him  here- 
after to  make  a  more  satisfactory  showiug  than  that  now  presented. 

And,  finally,  heshould  understand  that  notwithstanding  the  character 
and  habits  of  the  people  among  whom  he  lives,  his  office  should  be  one 
displacing  neatness  and  order,  thus  by  example  inculcating  that  regard 
for  cleanliness  and  decency  which  is  the  first  step  towards  real  progress 
in  any  community. 

Eesoectfully  submitted. 

W.  T.  CLARK,  Agent. 

Grade  of  office,  as  per  scale  of  merit,  No.  3. 


No.   4995. 

United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

Greensboro^  N.  C,  Sept.  5,  1878. 
Sir  :  I  have  the  honor  to  report  that  I  have  for  some  time  i^ast  been 
engaged  in  an  investigation  of  the  acts  of  certain  persons  near  Morgan- 


516  COLLECTION    OF    INTEKNAL    EE VENUE    IN 

town,  iu  the  6th  district  of  K.  C,  among  them  K.  A.  Cobb,  U.  S.  store- 
keeper and  ganger  ;  D.  C.  Pearson,  clerk  Burke  County  superior  court; 
Terrill  Hudson,  Hudson,  Johnson  &  Co.,  and  Huffman  &  .Co.,  distillers, 
all  of  whom  are  and  have  been  engaged  severally  and  in  combina- 
tion to  defraud  the  revenue  in  unlawfully  removing  si)irits,  refilling 
empty  stamped  casks,  and  reusing  spirit  stam[»s,  with  the  result  of  se- 
curing what  appears  to  be  conclusive  e\idence  of  their  guilt.  Being 
about  to  leave  this  district,  I  have  i)laced  tliis  evidence  in  the  hands 
jointly  of  Collector  J.  J.  Mott  andEevenue  Agent  Chapman,  to  be  used 
in  seizing  property  and  the  bringing  otfenders  to  punishment.  Collector 
Mott  is  very  indignant  at  the  conduct  of  Store-keeper  Cobb,  wdio  has 
thus  grossly  betrayed  his  confidence,  and  is  disposed  to  i)ress  the  case 
against  him  and  his  associates.  I  trust  that  he  may  be  instructed  to 
cause  his  immediate  removal  from  office,  and  that  prosecution  be  insti- 
tuted against  him,  as  he  has  been  the  leading  spirit  in  the  frauds,  and 
that  Mr.  Chapman  may  be  advised  of  the  importance  of  immediate  ac- 
tion in  these  cases. 

Very  respectfully, 

JACOB  WAGNER, 

Revenue  Agent. 
Hon.  Green  B.  Eaum, 

Commissioner  Internal  Revenue,  Washingtonj  1).  C. 


Xo.  8599. 


United  States  Internal  Eevenue, 
Collector's  Office,  0th  District,  North  Carolina, 

Statesville,  August  29f//,  1879. 
Hon.  Green  B.  Eaum, 

Commissioner  of  Int.  Bev.  : 

Sir:  a  copy  inclosed  to  Col'r  Mott  of  a  letter  written  by  Collector 
Brayton  the  9th  instant  to  yourself,  in  which  he  makes  formal  com- 
plaint of  "suspected  fraudulent  transactions''  in  the  sale  of  corn 
whisky  by  Mr.  A.  B.  Ehyne,  a  distiller  iu  the  6th  district  of  N.  C, 
has  been  referred  to  me.  In  this  letter  he  says  :  "This  is  the  first  time 
I  have  ever  made  formal  ccmiplaint  to  the  department  of  the  violations 
of  the  revenue  laws  outside  of  this  district,  and  I  Avouhl  not  now  do  so 
in  this  case  did  I  not  feel  that  Eev.  Ag't  W.  H.  Cha])maii  has  been  dere- 
lict in  i)rotecting  this  district  against  a  notorious  fraud."  As  he  says 
this,  he  feels  that  I  have  been  derelict  of  duty  in  not  protecting,  &c.» 
and  makes  that  his  excuse  for  re])orting  what  he  in  one  place  alleges 
to  be  a  case  of  "  susjx'cted  iVaudulent  transactions  "  ;  in  another  "  a  clear 
case  of  fraiul " ;  and  another,  "the  disgrace  of  the  service,"  I  feel  it 
due  to  myself  to  make  som(^  reply  to  this  communication,  and  by  a 
statement  of  facts  show  that  his  convictions  in  reference  to  myself 
could  not  have  Ix'cn  arrived  at  by  investigation  on  his  ])art,  and  that 
he  has  no  grounds  for  charging  me  with  dereliction  of  duty  in  trying  to 
prevent  what  he  terms  "  a  <lisgrace  to  the  service,"  nor  does  he  show 
tliat  it  is  a  "  clear  (;ase  of  fraud." 

in  my  hstter  to  you  of  the  t>tii  inst.,  reporting  result  of  investigations 
made  iu  Gaston  and  otiier  counties  in  the  (>th  district  N.  (3.  concerning 
the  charges  that  storekeepers  w«'re  dividing  their  pay  with  distillers,  1 
refernul  to  some  of  the  causes  which  led  to  the  establishing  of  so  many 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  517 

legal  distilleries  in  this  district :  to  the  acciiiniilation  of  spirits  in  hands 
of  distillers,  aii<l  their  neeessity  of  making  sales  in  order  to  continue 
business,  as  wi^Il  as  their  nio<le  of  putting  it  upon  the  market,  i.  <?.,  as 
retail  dealers  in  kegs  cont;iining  less  than  5  gallons.  The  distiller  re- 
ferred to  by  Col'r  I'.rayton,  A.  i>,  llhyne,  near  Gastonia,  was  about  the 
first  to  commence  selling  iu  this  way.  Last  year  he  had  license,  both 
as  w.  and  r.  1.  dealer.  His  bbls.  and  kegs  were  ordere<l  from  almost 
every  market  in  that  section,  and  selling  at  a  lower  price  than  other 
<lealers,  it  very  naturally  excited  the  suspi(;ion  that  he  was  haiulling 
nntaxi)aid  spirits.  The  wholesale  dealers  who  were  not  distillers  as- 
sumed that  it  must  I)e  so  from  the  fact  that  tlu\v  could  not  com])ete 
with  him,  andi)ublic  notice,  as  well  as  the  attention  of  revenue  officers 
was  directed  towards  him. 

Frequent  examinations  have  been  made  of  Rhyne's  establishments, 
who  believes  they  are  instigated  by  the  w.  t.  dealers  to  annoy  him. 
He  claims  that  he  can  afford  to  do  a  strictly  legitinmte  business  and 
undersell  them,  and  will  do  it. 

On  the  10th  of  Jan'y  last,  I  reached  Gastonia  at  3  o'clock  a.  m.,  and 
hired  a  horse,  and  visited  the  distilleries  of  C.  M.  lihyne,  Morris  & 
Bro.,  and  W.  V.  Khyne,  I  reached  A.  F>.  lihyne's,  who  had  two  distil- 
leries in  opei  ation,  early  in  the  morning ;  am  certain  that  he  had  no 
knowledge  of  my  being  in  the  neighborhood;  I  made  a  close  examina- 
tion, but  found  nothing  wrong  about  the  premises;  I  questioned  him 
about  his  prices,  and  learned,  as  1  afterwards  found,  that  he  had  no 
regular  price  for  his  whisky.  He  sometimes  sold  at  $1.10  per  gallon 
in  order  to  introduce  his  whisky,  but  nuxde  it  average  $1.25  i)er  gallon. 
I  spent  that  day  and  part  of  the  next  in  that  vicinity,  making  inquiry 
with  a  view  ot  discovering,  if  possible,  how  Khyne  was  violating  the 
law.  After  leaving  there  I  visited  Spartansburg,  Greenville,  Walhalla, 
and  various  other  pla(;es  in  S.  G,  reaching  Columbia  on  the  25th  of  Jan. 
I  found  A.  B.  Khyne's  corn  whisky  in  the  hands  of  r.  1.  d's  at  most 
of  these  places.  At  Greenville,  accompanied  by  Dep.  Ccl.  Jellson,  we 
tested  the  proof  at  several  r.  1.  d's  houses,  but  found  nothing  wrong 
about  it.  Wherever  I  could  obtain  them,  I  examined  the  bills,  and 
found  his  prices  to  correspond  with  statements  made  to  me.  As  this 
whisky  sujiplies  S.  0.  tratle  it  very  naturally  causes  complaint  on  the 
part  of  the  distillers  there.  While  in  Columbia,  about  that  time,  1  con- 
versed with  Collector  Braydon  about  it,  who  says,  1  "  was  fully  cogni- 
zant of  the  fraud  and  proposed  to  break  it  up." 

Had  I  been  cognizant  of  any  fraud  I  would  have  done  so,  but  he  nor 
no  one  else  has  ever  furnished  any  other  evidence  of  fraud  than  that 
the  whisky  is  sold  in  kegs  containing  less  than  5  gallons,  and  some- 
times at  ll.lO  per  gal.  On  Feb.  18th,  I  visited  D.  H,  Andrew,  who 
was  confined  iu  the  Yorkville,  t^.  C,  jail,  for  violation  of  int.  rev  laws. 
He  had  intimated  to  Deputy  Col'r  Gyles,  of  Spartansburg,  S.  C,  that 
he  could  aid  mc  in  detecting  A.  B.  Khyne  in  violating  the  law.  His 
proposition  was  to  purchase  a  bbl.  of  unstamped  whisky  from  A.  B. 
Khyne,  to  be  delixered  on  a  certain  night  from  his  warehouse,  which  I 
was  to  have  watched,  of  course  I  was  to  procure  his  release  from  jail  iu 
order  to  allow  him  the  opportunity.  ^Vs  I  had  no  assurance  that  he 
w(uild  ever  attempt  to  carry  out  what  he  jiroposed  to  do,  after  he  got 
out  of  jail,  I  could  not  agree  to  this  ])roposition.  He  stated  that  he  had 
dealt  m  blockade  whisky,  but  had  never  bought  any  from  Khyne. 
His  reason  for  believing  that  he  could,  was  that  two  men  living  at 
King's  Mountain,  told  him  the}'  could  get  it  for  him  for  $1.()(>  i)er  gal- 
lon, from  A.  B.  Rhyne's  warehouse  at  night.     I  then  told  him  if  he  had 


618  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

any  friend  who  would  enter  into  this  arrangement  for  him  and  carry 
it  out,  I  would  procure  his  release;  he  replied,  "  He  Iiad,  and  would 
communicate  with  him  and  make  the  arrangement,"  and  write  to  me. 
But  as  I've  heard  nothing  more  from  him,  1  concluded  it  was  only  an 
efi'ort  to  get  out  of  jail. 

Collector  Brayton  says  the  business  is  constantly  increasing  in  i)Jo- 
portions,  to  the  great  injury  of  honest  dealers,  and  the  disgrace  of  the 
service.  It  has  increased  because  other  distillers  finding  they  could  in- 
crease their  sales  by  supplying  consumers  in  quantities  less  than  five 
gals.,  have  become  r.  1.  d's. 

Collector  Brayton  gives  as  an  evidence  of  this  "  notorious  fraud,"  in 
Gaston,  Co.,  IS".  C,  that  a  Greenville,  S.  C,  r.  1.  dealer  named  N.  B. 
Freeman,  wlio  deals  almost  exclusively  in  this  liquor  has  so  prospered 
that  he  has  established  four  bar-rooms  in  that  place,  and  has  the 
whisky  come  in  different  kegs  addressed  to  his  different  bar-tenders 
to  avoid  a  seizure  in  that  State,  on  account  of  making  a  purchase  of 
over  5  gals. 

On  the  9th  inst.,  while  traveling  from  Dallas,  I  discovered  5  kegs  of 
whisky  in  the  express  car  being  shipped,  one  each  to  the  following  ad- 
dress, by  B.  y.  Morris,  r.  1.  d.,  at  Dallas,  N.  C;  N.  B.  Freeman,  Jas, 
Jenkins,  Doc  Burnham,  Jno.  Bull,  and  Dick  Pool,  of  Green  \ille,  S.  C. 
Suspecting  that  thesekegs  were  for  the  same  person,  that  some  of  these 
names  were  fictitious,  and  that  Morris  w^as  wholesaling  without  license, 
I  w^rote  to  Deputy  Collector  Jellson,  at  Greenville,  giving  him  particu- 
lars and  requesting  him  to  watch  these  kegs  and  see  what  became  of 
them.  I  would  have  sent  the  communication  directly  to  Collector  Bray- 
ton, but  was  afraid  the  kegs  would  reach  their  destination  before  the 
division  deputy  could  be  communicated  with.  I've  not  yet  heard  from 
him  the  result  of  his  inquiry,  but  Collector  Brayton  explains  it  by  giv- 
ing the  information  that  "  the  kegs  are  addressed  to  his  different  bar- 
tenders to  avoid  seizure,  &c."  Now^,  the  question  arises,  who  is  the 
purchaser  of  this  whisky ;  N.  B.  Freemiin,  or  the  parties  to  whom  it 
is  addressed !  I  think  it  will  be  agreed  that  the  latter  must  be  regarded 
as  the  ])urchasers  and  that  there  is  no  violation  in  buying  while  Morris, 
as  r.  1.  (1.,  has  the  right  to  sell.  But  the  presumption  is  that  they  sell 
it  again,  and  in  that,  violate  the  law  by  retailing  without  license.  Now, 
here  is  an  excellent  ()])})()rtunity  for  Collector  Ikayton  to  aid  in  "■  u])- 
rooting  the  trafiic"  if  the  license  at  each  place  is  in  N.  B.  Freeman's 
name.  During  my  inxestigation  in  (Jaston  Co.,  recently,  I  visited  A.  B. 
Bhyiu-'s  distilleries,  with  Deputy  Collector  JeWett,  as  soon  as  1  reached 
there,  and  took  s]K'cial  i)ains  to  make  a  thorough  investigation  of  his 
premises  to  see  if  1  could  discover  any  fraudulent  ])ractices,  but  could 
not.  I  am  no  ai)<>logist  for  A.  B.  Bhyne,  nor  any  of  these  retailers  by 
the;  keg,  but  I  think  the  true  cause  of  all  this  complaint  lies  in  the  law 
authoii/ing  retail  dealers  to  sell  s]>irits  in  quantities  less  than  5  gals, 
without  being  stamped  or  without  re(piiring  tlie  r.  1.  d's  to  produce  evi- 
deiKM!  that  it  has  been  tax-paid.  It  certainly  affords  an  outlet  for  the 
Kale  of  illicit  whisky  and  oj  crates  unfairly  towar<ls  the  wholesale  dealer 
in  th(^  sections  of  country  where  thei'e  are  so  many  distillers.  If  the 
atiioiirif  could  i»e  rcstiicted  to  one  gallon  instead  of  less  than  o,  which  a 
ictiiil  dealer  would  be  allowed  to  sell,  1  ha\'e  no  doubtit  would  increase 
the  uinount  of  tax  paid  whisky  <',onsumed  each  y«^ar,  afford  better  i>ro- 
teclioii  lo  I  lie  wholesnle  dealer,  and  be  no  injury  to  llie  honest  distiller. 

<  )u  t  his  subject    I   beg  lesHC  tos;iy  IHOI'C  hercarter. 
\  <M\    respecl  lidh  . 

W  .   11.  CHAPMAN, 

IkCffllKC   Afli'llt. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  519 

No.  9577. 

Greensboro',  N.  C,  Dec.  11,  1880. 
Hon.  Green  B.  Eaum, 

Commissioner  oj  Int.  Rev.,  Washington,  I).  G. : 

Sir  :  I  bave  the  honor  to  report  that  in  compliance  with  your  instruc- 
tions of  November  10th,  initials  F.  D.  S.,  inclosing  what  ])urporte(l  to 
be  a  circular  dated  Sept.  1st,  1879,  issued  by  Collector  Mott,  of  the  Oth 
dist.  of  N.  C,  to  sfeore-keei)ers  and  gau}>ers  of  his  district,  requiring  each 
of  these  subordinates  to  i)ay  a  monthly  assessment  of  one  per  cent,  of 
their  salaries  to  the  collector  to  meet  oftice  expenses. 

I  have  investigated  the  matter  sufficiently  to  ascertain  that  the  cir- 
cular referred  to  and  which  is  herewith  returned  is  genuine,  and  was 
issued  and  sent  out  with  the  knowledge  and  consent  of  Collector  Mott. 

I  first  called  on  the  person  from  whom  the  circular  was  obtained,  who 
informed  me  that  he  sent  to  the  collector  regular  every  month  one  per 
cent,  of  the  amount  received  by  him  each  month  as  per  request  con- 
tained in  circular,  and  that  other  storekeepers  and  gangers  whom  he 
had  met  informed  him  they  were  doing  the  same. 

1  next  interviewed  Collector  Mott  (whom  1  met  at  Greensboro')  .on 
the  subject,  to  whom  I  showed  the  circular,  and  who  stated  that  said 
circular  had  been  issued  b>  his  direction  under  the  following  circum- 
stances : 

The  employment  of  a  large  number  of  store-keepers  and  gangers 
made  necessary  by  the  starting  of  so  many  registered  distilleries  in  the 
district,  caused  to  be  incurred  expenses  for  which  no  allowance  had 
been  or  could  be  made,  which  expenses  had  to  be  paid  from  the  private 
funds  of  the  collector  and  others  in  the  office. 

One  of  the  items  was  for  the  employment  of  a  young  mau  to  i)ick 
out,  wrap  up,  and  mail  to  store-keepers  and  gangers  supi)lies  of  blanks, 
requisitions  for  whi(;li  were  coming  in  every  day  ;  he  also  helped  copy 
letters  to  store-keepers  and  gangers,  and  in  other  ways  assisted  said 
officers,  besides  attending  to  other  duties  about  the  office,  such  as  keep- 
ing the  office  clean,  and  running  of  errands,  &c. 

Tne  name  of  the  young  man  thus  employed  is  Henry  Dean,  and  for 
some  time  was  paid  by  the  collector  and  others  in  the  office,  who  gave 
him  a  certain  amount  of  money,  amounting  to  about  ten  dollars  a 
mouth. 

A  check-book  was  wanting  for  the  ijayment  by  check  monthly  of  the 
store-keepers  and  gangers'  salary;  application  was  made  for  the  same 
of  the  department. 

The  collector  was  informed  that  the  bank  at  which  he  made  his  de- 
posits would  furnish  him  check -books;  this  the  bank  declined  to  do,  so 
a  check-book  had  to  be  purchased,  and  other  things  in  like  manner. 

About  the  1st  September,  1879,  Deputy  Collector  Coite  suggested  to 
the  collector  that  the  store-keejjers  and  gangers  ought  to  hel])  pay  these 
expenses.  Collector  Mott  thinking  it  right  that  they  should,  author- 
ized Coite  to  send  out  the  circular  letter  of  September  first. 

Dr.  Mott  informed  me  that  he  did  not  know  just  how  mnch  had  been 
received,  but  that  an  account  of  receipts  and  disbursements  were  kept 
at  the  oftice  of  Mr.  Dwire,  the  assistant  cashier. 

On  the  2d  inst.  I  arrived  at  Statesville,  and  saw  Deputy  Collector 
Coite,  who  confirmed  Collector  Mott's  statement  in  legard  to  the 
matter. 

I  next  called  on  Assistant  Cashier  Dwire  to  produce  his  book  show- 


520  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

ing"  the  receipts  aucl  disbur-senieTits  of  nioiiey  received  fVoiii  store-keep- 
ers and  gaugers.  He  produced  a  booli,  but  it  was  not  written  up, 
])wire  claiming  tliat  he  had  so  much  ollice  work  to  do  that  he  had 
neglected  it  for  some  time. 

In  explanation  of  his  manner  of  keeping  this  account,  Mr.  Uwire 
stated  that  the  store-keepers  and  gangers  usually  sent  the  money  in  au 
envelope  with  some  of  their  rei)orts,  sometimes  with  a  memorandum  or 
letter  of  transmittal,  stating  purpose  for  which  money  was  then  sent, 
and  sometimes  the  money  was  sent  without  any  explanation.  The  per- 
son who  opened  the  letter  would  hand  the  money,  with  the  letter  of 
transmittal,  to  him,  and  he,  Dwire,  would  put  it  away  in  the  safe  until 
he  had  time  to  enter  it  in  the  book ;  in  case  no  memorandum  came  with 
the  money,  the  j)erson  opening  the  mail  would  make  a  memorandum, 
stating  from  whom  received,  as  shown  from  reports  contained  in  envel- 
ope, and  hand  the  same  to  Mr.  Dwire,  who  would  place  them  in  the  safe, 
unless  he  was  at  leisure  when  the  money  was  received,  in  which  case 
he  would  enter  it  on  the  book ;  and  in  cases  where  the  entries  were 
made  at  the  time  the  money  was  received,  the  memorandum  was  not 
kept. 

After  looking  over  the  account,  I  concluded  it  would  be  best  to  allow 
Mr.  Dwire  (to)  write  up  his  book  and  prepare  a  statement  for  me  show- 
ing the  amount  received  from  each  person,  together  with  an  itemized 
statement  of  the  disbursements. 

I  explained  to  Mr.  Dwire  the  form  in  which  I  desired  these  state- 
ments made  up,  and.  then  counted  the  balance  remaining  in  his  hands 
unexpended,  which  amounted  to  one  hundred  and  fifty-two  dollars  and 
eight  cents  (152.08). 

1  left  Statesville  on  the  morning  of  the  5th  in  company  with  Revenue 
Agent  Kellogg,  visiting  Hickory  and  Asheville,  examining  tobacco  fac- 
tory and  working  up  on  other  matters,  returning  to  .Statesville  on  the 
evening  of  the  7th  inst.  Mr.  Dwire  had  not  yet  tinished  making  up 
the  statement,  but  had  it  ready  on  the  morning  of  the  8th. 

I  have  checked  olf  the  amounts  received  for  which  Mr.  Dwire  has 
letters  of  transmittal  or  memorandum,  and  find  received  from  W.  T. 
Holland  28c.  and  T.  ( '.  Ford  .|1.08,  not  entered,  which  amounts  I  have 
marked  opposite  to  their  names  in  red.  1  have  also  checked  off  on  the 
statement  of  disbursements  the  amounts  for  which  Mr.  Dwire  holds 
vouchers  ;  no  dates  are  given  in  the  statements,  as  the  accounts  are  not 
ke])t  by  date. 

Henry  Dean,  the  young  man  paid  from  this  fund  from  September, 
1870,  to  and  in(;lu<ling  June,  1880,  is  still  employed  in  the  office,  but  I 
am  informed  that  he  lias  been  paid  from  an  allowance  made  by  the  de- 
l)artment  since  July  1st,  1880. 

The  statement  furnished  me  by  Mi".  Dwire  is  herewith  inclosed, 
which  shows  the  following  amounts  received  and  disbursed: 

Total  amoiintH  rcr.-iv.Ml $390  16 

Total  iimoiiiits  (liMl)uis(Ml '£-'>'^  50 

157  66 
'I' )t,al  cash  on    lian.l,   !>.;(;.  .-it li,  IHriO 1.54  :W 

Unaci'oiiiiliMl  Coi- W  \\Z 

K'-c*!iv«!<l  froiri  I  loll  and  and  I'onl,  not  ontcrrd 1  36 

'I'iital  nnaccoiinttMl    tor |4  69 

This  acconnt  seems  to  have  l»een  v«My  carelessly  kept,  and  in  my 
opinion  is  not  coirect . 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  521 

For  install  ce,  tlie  person  from  mIkhh  tiie  inclosed  cirtjular  was  obtained 
is  ready  to  make  affidavit  tliat  lie  made  live  payments,  amountinfi'  in 
all  to  live  dollars  and  some  cents,  wliile  he  is  only  credited  on  the 
statement  with  three  payments,  amonntinjj;-  to  three  dollars  and  thirteen 
cents  ($3.13). 

Revenue  Aj^ent  Kelloji'^'  informs  me  of  a  store-keeper  and  jiaujjfer 
who  told  him  months  ai^'o  that  Ik;  was  i)ayin^'  into  this  fund  monthly, 
but  his  name  does  not  a])})ear  on  this  statement. 

It  will  take  a  lon^'  time  to  see  ])ersonally  every  store-keeper  and 
ganger  and  ascertain  the  amounts  paid  by  each. 

I  would  therefore  respectfully  suggest,  as  a  means  of  ])roinptly  as- 
certaining the  accuracy  of  the  statement  as  to  the  amounts  received, 
that  letters  be  sent  to  each  store-keeper  and  ganger  in  the  service  since 
September  1st,  1870,  requiring  them  to  report  by  return  mail  the  amount 
each  has  paid. 

1  have  a  copy  of  the  inclosed  statement,  which  will  be  of  service  to 
me  in  any  further  investigations  of  this  matter  you  may  desire  to  have 
me  make. 

Very  resi)ectfully, 

A.  H.  BROOKS, 

Revenue  Agent. 

Internal  Revenue  Office, 

Statesville,  N'.  C,  September  Ist^  1879. 
Sir  :  There  are  office  exjienses  for  which  no  allowance  has  been 
made  by  the  government,  and  as  it  is  not  right  that  some  officers  should 
pay  cdl  and  others  none,  I  have  thought  proper  to  equalize  them. 

I  consider  that  one  per  cent,  of  jour  monthly  salary  is  a  reasonable 
assessment.  Please,  therefore,  at  once,  upon  the  receipt  of  your  pay 
each  month,  forward  to  this  office  the  amount  due  from  you,  as  above 
specified. 

An  account  of  receipts  and  expenditures  under  this  fund  is  kept  at 
this  office  for  inspection  by  all  concerned. 
Respectfully, 

J.  J.  MOTT, 

(jollector. 


No.  G. 

United  States  Internal  Revenue, 
Collector's  Office,  (3th  District  North  Carolina, 

Marion,  April  29,  1880. 
Col.  Ed.  McLeer, 

Rev.  Ag't: 
Sir  :  I  accompanied  Store-keeper  M.  M.  Teague  to  the  warehouse  of 
A.  Simmons  (No.  055)  this  morning,  and  gauged  and  tried  the  proof  of 
49  packages  contained  therein,  a  report  of  which  I  have  filed  with 
Coll'r  Mott. 

The  original  gauging,  as  shown  by  cutting  on  bung-stave,  is  incorrect 
in  every  instance,  being  generally  greater  than  measurements  with 
gaugiugrod  will  show,  tlie  difference  in  some  cases  being  5,  (j,  and  0^ 
gallons.  The  proof  in  two  i)ackages  is  5  per  cent,  and  G  per  cent.,  re- 
si)ectively,  but  generally  ruuniug  from  88  to  95  per  cent.,  two  packages 
being  09  per  cent,  and  78  per  cent.,  respectively,  all  marked  100  on 
bung-stave. 


522  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

There  is  in  two  instances  39^  and  44i  j^allons  wantage,  leaA  ing  but 
one  gallon  in  the  j)ackage,  three  other  packages  being  14.},  25,  and  33 
gallons  wantage,  respectively,  the  balance  running  from  2}  to  0}  gal- 
lons wantage. 

The  spirits  in  this  warehouse  appears  to  have  been  tampered  with 
long  ago,  as  some  of  the  packages  thus  afi'ected  have  evidently  not 
been  disturbed  for  some  considerable  time  past,  they  being  two  tiers 
high,  the  lower  tier  resting  on  the  grouud,  the  mould  and  marks  and 
surronndings  being  such  that  I  judge  they  had  not  been  disturbed  for 
the  space  of  a  year  at  least. 

The  present  store  keeper,  M.  M.  Teague,  says  they  are  in  the  same 
condition  in  which  they  were  when  he  was  assigned  to  the  above  men 
tioned  warehouse. 

H.  W.  Moore  is  the  store-keeper  and  ganger  who  gauged  the  pack- 
ages, and  was  relieved  by  M.  M.  Teague  August  1,  1879. 

Respectfully"  submitted. 

J.  D.  EATON. 


No.  73. 


United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

Greenshor^o,  N.  C,  March  7,  1881. 

Hon.  Green  B.  Raum, 

Commissioner  oflnt.Eev.,  Washington,  D.  C.  : 

Sir:  In  compliance  with  your  letter  of  the  21st  ultimo  (F.  D.  S.  & 
H.  E.  W.),  inclosing  a  communication  from  A.  F.  Randall,  in  relation  to 
frauds  at  the  distillery  of  W.  O.  MuUer,  Gth  dist.,  N.  0.,  and  directing 
me  to  investigate  the  matter,  I  have  the  honor  to  report  that  I  went 
to  Asheville,  N.  C,  and  then  drove  to  the  locality  of  the  distillery,  and 
took,  in  writing,  the  statements  of  the  parties  mentioned  in  the  communi- 
cation of  Mr.  Randell.  I  inclose  copies  of  their  statements.  I  am  of 
the  opinion  that  frauds  have  been  perpetrated  at  this  distillery  l)y  col- 
lusion of  the  storekeeper  and  ganger,  J.  W.  Cannon,  with  the  distiller. 
I  have  directed  that  Mr.  Gannon  be  arrested,  and  if  convicted  that  the 
distillery  be  seized. 

As  to  the  charges  in  the  communication  that  the  store-keeper,  G.  W. 
Cannon,  owns  and  runs  the  bar-room  near  the  distillery,  and  is  pur- 
chasing grain  to  run  the  distillery,  I  will  state  that  the  bar-room  is  near 
by  but  not  on  the  distillery  i)remises,  and  I  could  get  no  evidence  that 
Cannon  had  any  interest  m  it.  As  to  purchasing  grain  to  operate  the 
distilh-ry,  I  tliink  he  weigiis  the  grain  an  keei)s  and  account  of  it  as  it 
is  biought  in,  but  I  could  not  get  any  proof  that  he  was  interested  in 
any  other  way  in  th<5  i»ur(5hase. 

The,   parties  whose  statements  I  have   taken   say  they  will   testify  to 
the  facts  as  taken  down.    1  left  a  (;()i>\  oC  tiieir  stat<'ments  with  the  offi 
cei's  at  Asheville,  and  <lire(-te(l  that  a  llKH'ough  examination  of  these  i)ar- 
ties  l>e  had  before  tlie  1 1.  S.  eoiiimissioner. 
Very  respei'dullv, 

HORACE  KFIJ.OGG, 

Jicrciiiie  A(jeuL 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAR01.INA.  523 

Part  of  Ko.  73.     Inclosure  ^  1. 

Statement  of  James  Yonng. 

Turnpike,  If.  C,  March  3d,  1881. 
James  Young,  liviuj?  near  the  distillery  of  W.  O.  Muller,  in  the  6th 
dist.  of  N.  C,  says  that  about  2  years  ajjo  lie  worked  at  said  distillery; 
that  by  direction  of  G.  W.  Cannon,  store-keeper  &  f>auger,  he  carried 
an  empty  barrel  upon  which  the  stamps  were  not  destroyed  from  the 
bar-room  located  near  the  distillery  of  W.  O.  Muller,  to  the  bonded 
warehouse  of  said  distillery;  thatthebairel  was  then  refilled,  and  that  the 
next  day,  he,  Young,  hauled  the  refilled  barrel  to  Asheville,  N.  C,  ta 
the  bar-room  of  Mr.  Sorrells.  He  says  that  when  he  carried  the  empty 
barrel  from  the  bar-room  to  the  warehouse  that  G.  W.  Cannon  motioned 
him  to  i)ut  his  hat  over  the  stamp,  that  those  standing  by  should  not 
see  it,  which  he  did. 


Part  of  #  73.     Inclosure  No.  2. 

Statement  of  Peter  Miller. 

Near  Turnpike,  N.  C,  March  3d,  1881. 
Peter  Miller,  who  lives  near  Turnpike,  N.  C,  says  that  about  2  years 
ago  he  worked  at  the  distillery  of  W.  O.  Muller,  at  Turnpike,  0  district 
N.  C,  at  which  G.  W.  Cannon  was  store-keeper  and  ganger.  That  on 
one  occasion  he  helped  G.  W,  Canncm  carry  a  40-gallon  barrel  of 
whisky  from  the  warehouse  of  said  distillery  to  the  bar- room  near  by. 
That  there  was  no  stamp  upon  the  barrel,  except  the  warehouse  stamp. 
That  he.  Cannon,  told  him  that  the  tax-paid  stamp  had  been  sent  for 
and  that  it  wouldprobably  come  by  the  next  day.  That  he.  Miller,  never 
saw  the  tax-paid  stamj),  or  knew  of  its  having  been  put  upon  the  barreL 


Part  of  No.  73.     Inclosure  No.  3. 

Statement  of  PinJcney  William,s. 

Buncombe  Co.,  N.  C,  March  4,  1881. 
Pinkney  Williams,  wl>o  lives  about  three  miles  from  Turni)ike,  N.  C.^ 
says,  that  (he)  has  worked  at  the  distillery  of  W.  O.  Muller,  Oth  district^ 
N.  C,  at  which  G.  W,  Cannon  was  the  store-keeper  and  ganger.  That 
about  the  1st  of  January,  1881,  he  saw  a  barrel  of  rye  whisky  brought 
to  the  bar*room  near  said  distillery;  that  the  rye  whisky  was  drawn  out 
into  bottles,  and  that  the  barrel  was  tlien  taken  to  the  warehouse  of  said 
distillery  and  refilled  with  corn  whisky  by  the  store-keeper,  G.  W.  Can- 
non, and  then  taken  away.  The  stamps  were  not  destroyed  when  the 
barrel  was  emptied,  nor  were  other  stamj>s  put  upon  tlie  barrel  when  it 
was  refilled.  He  says  that  at  various  times  he  lias  seen  Cannon,  while 
store  keeper  at  the  said  distillery,  take  whisky  in  jugs  from  the  ware- 
house to  the  bar-room.  Also  that  he  has  seen  Cannon  fill  bottles  from 
the  cistrni   in   the  cistern-room  of  said  distillery.     Tiiat  Cannon  has 


524  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

frequently  filled  bottles  for  him,  Williams,  from  the  cistern-room  wliile 
he,  Williams,  worked  at  the  distillery.  That  he  has  seen  Cannon  weigh 
the  grain  brought  to  the  distillery  but  never  saw  him  pay  for  it.  That 
lie  does  not  know  of  Cannon's  having  an  interest  iu  the  bar-room. 


Part  of  73.     Inelosure  No.  4. 

Statement  of  James  Rutherford. 

Buncombe  Co.,  X.  C,  March  4,  1881. 
James  Rutherford,  w^ho  lives  about  three  miles  from  Turnpike,  N.  C,  says 
that  he  has  worked  at  the  distillery  of  W.  C.  MuUer,  in  the  0th  dist.  of 
N.  C,  while  G.  W.  Cannon  was  store-keeper  and  gauger  attlie  said  dis- 
tillery;  that  he  has  at  various  times  seen  whisky  taken  from  the  ware- 
house of  said  di!;tillery  in  one  and  two  galh:)n  jugs,  and  carried  to  the 
bar-room  near  by  ;  that  he  has  seen  said  Cannon  weigh  the  grain  that 
was  brought  there,  but  never  saw  him  pay  for  it ;  that  he  has  noknowl- 
•edge  of  Cannon's  owning  any  interest  in  the  bar-room. 


iS'o.  234. 


United  States  Internal.  Revenue, 

Raleigh,  N.  C,  Apr.  20th,  1881. 
Hon.  Green  B.  Raum, 

Commissioner  of  Int.  Rev.,  Washinf/ton,  D.  G. 

Sir  :  I  have  the  honor  to  report  that  on  the  loth  inst.,  I  visited  the 
-collector's  office,  0th  dist.,  N.  C,  for  the  purpose  of  further  investigat- 
ing the  matter  of  assessments  paid  by  deputy  collectors  and  store-keep- 
ers and  gangers,  for  the  purpose  of  defraying  the  incidental  expenses 
of  the  collector's  office,  which  payments  were  made,  as  per  request  con- 
tained in  circular  letter,  issued  by  Collector  Mott,  dated  Sept.  1st,  1870,  re- 
questing said  officers  to  i^ay  for  the  i)urpose  above  mentioned,  an  as- 
iiessment  of  one  per  cent,  of  their  monthly  salary.  I  find  the  discrep- 
ancy l)et\veen  the  statement  furnished  by  Mr.  Dwire,  who  has  charge 
of  the  in(Mdental  office  fund,  and  the  one  made  up  at  the  department, 
from  r('j)()rts  of  officers  who  contributed  to  this  fund  accounted  for  iu 
l)art,  iis  follows  : 

Tli(^  amounts  piii<l  by  (l('])ntv  colhM'iors  llrown,  Coite,  Colyer,  and 
Davis,  in  excess  of  tin;  amounts  accounted  for  on  Mr.  Dwire's  stiitement 
were  j);ii(l  ]Mior  to  Sept.  1st,  LS70  (the  date  of  circular  letter),  and  never 
I)ass('(i  through  Mr.  Dwire's  hands,  the  same  having  been  paid  by  the 
contributors  in  monthly  instalbnents  to  Henry  Dean,  a  colored  boy 
emj>loyed  about  the  ottice  as  janitor,  and  to  assist  the  deiuities  and 
ijlerks  in  the  office,  and  who,  since  July  1st,  IS8(>,  lias  been  paid  from 
an  allowance  made  by  the  dei)artriient. 

Ill  reg;ii<l  to  the  sKM.OO  reported  by  Store-keei)er  and  Gauger  J.  W. 
Clarke,  >!.S.S.()()  rei>oite(l  by  W.  D.  Mason,  *!l().0(),  reported  by  Deputy 
Oolleclor  K'ay,  1  am  satisfied  tlies<'  were  paid  for  political  puri>oses  and 
should  not  be  included  in  t  he  ollice  incidental  e.\|)eiise  a('(u>unt. 

In  regard  to  the  .'>!'. 01)  wiiich  apjieais  on  the  department  statement 
to  h;i\e  been  paid  by    I*.    M.  Ni(dvs,  store  ke(^per  and  gauger,  I   would 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  525 

state  that  on  the  IGth  inst.  I  called  upon  Mr.  Nicks,  at  his  residence  in 
Yadkin  County,  and  obtaiiuMl  from  him  the  following  statement: 

Mr.  Nicks  says  he  was  tirst  assigued  to  duty  as  store-keeper  and  gauger 
Feb.  10th,  1880,  at  the  distillery  of  J.  F.  Couch  &  Co.,  Zion,  Yadkin 
Co.,  0th  dist.  N.  C,  where  ha  reinained  until  June  12th,  1880.  In  March 
or  April,  1880,  Deputy  Collector  Sullivan  called  on  him  at  the  above- 
mentioned  distillery  with  a  letter  from  Collector  Mott,  addressed  to  the 
store-keepers  and  gaugers  of  Yadkin  County,  requestingall  of  said  officers 
to  sign  a  blank  check  for  campaign  ])urposes.  Sullivan  had  a  i)a(ikage 
of  blank  checks  with  him,  and  ]Sicks  wrote  his  name  on  the  back  of 
one  of  them.  Sullivan  told  him  at  the  time  that  it  would  not  amount 
to  more  than  15.00  or  20.00,  but  he  afterwards  learned  that  the  check 
had  been  tilled  up  for  101.00,  the  amount  due  him  for  services  rendered 
during  the  month  of  May,  1880.  When,  in  December,  he  was  called 
upon  to  rei)ort  the  amount  paid  by  him  for  incidental  expenses  of  the 
6th  district  collector's  office,  he  had  i*eceived  all  moneys  due  him  except 
his  salarj"  for  the  months  of  May  and  June,  neither  of  which  he  has  yet 
received.  Not  having  paid  anything  for  office  expenses,  he  misconstrued 
the  meaning  of  your  letter,  and  reported  $104.00,  the  amount  of  his- 
salary  for  ]May.  In  less  than  a  week  after  he  had  so  reported,  Deputy 
Collector  Sullivan  called  on  him,  and,  upon  being  informed  by  Nicks 
that  he  had  reported  to  Washington  that  he  had  paid  $101.00  for  office 
expenses,  Sullivan  told  him  that  he  should  not  have  been  in  such  a 
hurry  to  answer  the  letter,  and  that  he  ought  not  to  have  reported  the^ 
$101.00  as  expenses  of  the  office,  as  it  was  for  campaign  purposes. 
Then,  at  Sullivan's  request,  Nicks  addressed  another  letter  to  the  Hon. 
Commissioner  of  Int.  Revenue,  stating  that  the  $104.00  i>reviously  re- 
ported was  not  for  office  expenses  but  for  campaign  expenses. 

Nicks  says  that  he  never  reported  32.00  paid  for  any  purpose ;  that 
the  $104.00  is  all  that  he  has  paid  for  any  purpose;  Deputy  Collector 
Sullivan  told  Nicks  that  he  would  be  suspended  for  reporting  the  $104.00.. 
Nicks  says  Sullivan  told  other  store-keepers  and  gaugers,  friends  of  his, 
that  he,  Nicks,  would  be  suspended  for  a  year,  and  perhaps  for  life,  for 
reporting  the  $104.00.  Nicks  has  not  been  on  duty  since  the  last  of 
February,  the  distillery  to  which  he  was  assigned  having  suspended  at 
that  time.  Mr.  Nicks  is  an  elderly  man,  and  I  believe  the  statement  he 
has  made  to  be  true.  His  statement  in  regard  to  indorsing  the  blank 
check  is  verified  by  other  store-keepers  and  gaugers,  who  also  indorsed 
blank  checks  in  the  hands  of  deputy  collectors  for  campaign  purposes. 
He  seemed  to  regret  very  much  having  made  the  mistake  in  reporting 
the  $104.00. 

By  reference  to  his  letter,  dated  Dec.  20,  I  find  that  he  did  report 
$104.00  and  I  am  of  the  opinion  that  the  32.00  in  the  department  state- 
ment should  be  included  in  the  $104.00,  which  was  paid  by  Nicks  for 
campaign  expenses,  and  that  he  paid  nothing  for  office  expenses. 

The  remaining  discrepancies,  between  amounts  reported  ])aid  by  of- 
ficers and  the  statement  furnished  by  Mr.  Dwire,  are,  in  my  opinion, 
accounted  for  in  part  by  the  careless  manner  in  which  the  assessment 
account  was  kept,  and  in  part  by  the  defective  memor\'  of  the  officers 
who  paid  the  money. 

I  herewith  return  the  department  statement;  statements  furnished 
by  H.  X.  Dwire,  of  the  collector's  office;  my  report  of  Dec.  10th,  1880 ; 
circular  letter,  dated  Sept.  1st,  1879;  together  with  letters  of  the  offi- 
cers stating  amounts  paid  them — all  the  papers  I  have  in  the  case. 
Very  respectfully, 

A.  H.  BEOOKS, 

Revenue  Agent, 


526  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

No.  233. 

United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

Raleigh,  N.  C,  April  2mh,  1881. 

Hon.  Green  B.  Raum, 

Commissioner  of  Int.  Revenue,  Washington,  T).  G.  : 
Sir  :  Referring  to  a  conversation  Lad  with  yon  March  28th  in  regard 
to  the  assessment  of  officers  in  the  6th  dist.,  IST.  (J.,  for  office  expenses, 
&c.,  I  have  the  honor  to  report  that  on  the  12th  instant  I  called  upon 
Collector  Mott  and  handed  him  your  note.  Collector  Mott  stated  that 
he  intended  to  visit  Washington  soon,  and  would  go  prepared  to  ex- 
plain to  you  all  matters  relative  to  the  assessment  of  the  officers  of  his 
•district;  he  thought  he  could  explain  everything  to  your  satisfaction, 
and  would  much  prefer  doing  so  before  investigation  was  ordered.  I 
was  of  the  opinion  that  nothing  could  be  gained  by  pressing  the  mat- 
ter, so  I  concluded  to  let  it  rest  until  further  instructed. 

I  regard  to  the  two  officers  who,  it  was  rumored,  had  paid  or  had  re- 
tained from  their  salary,  one  $900.00  and  the  other  $400.00,  I  have  to 
say  that  I  have  seen  the  person  referred  to  as  having  paid  tiie  $400.00. 
He  is  a  poor  man,  with  a  wife  and  thirteen  children,  and  pays  the  dis- 
tiller one  dollar  per  day  board.  He  did  not  want  to  talk  about  the 
matter,  but  finally  made  the  following  statement :  He  was  appointed 
store-keeper  and  ganger  in  1874,  but  has  not  been  on  duty  all  the  time. 
He  said  he  kept  a  memorandum  of  the  amounts  he  paid,  just  to  see  if 
he  was  keeping  his  end  up ;  he  says  he  has  paid  in  all  over  $400.00 
{dollars),  but  that  all  of  it  was  paid  for  political  purposes,  with  the  ex- 
ception of  two  or  three  dollars  paid  for  office  expenses.  He  states  that 
he  made  all  the  payments  of  his  own  free  will,  and  has  no  fault  to  find 
with  anyone;  with  the  exception  of  his  last  payment  he  has  paid  all  in 
currency.  The  last  time  he  signed  a  blank  check,  and  placed  it  in  the 
hands  of  the  division  deputy  who  broughtit  to  him,  with  the  understand- 
ing that  it  was  to  be  tilled  up  for  $104.00,  the  amount  of  his  salary  for 
June;  but,  as  there  was  no  money  available  for  June  salaries  the  check 
was  filled  up  for  $108.00,  the  amount  of  his  salary  for  July,  with  his 
consent. 

The  party  who,  it  is  said,  has  paid  $900.00  I  did  not  see,  but  I  learned 
that  he  has  been  in  theservicealongtime,  and  the  probabilities  are  that 
whatever  he  has  paid  has  been  political  contributions. 
Very  respectfully, 

A.  H.  BROOKS, 

Revenue  Agent, 


No.  569. 


United  States  Internal  Revenue. 

Greensboro',  N.  G.,  Oct.  31,  1881. 

Hon.  Green  B.  Raum, 

Commissioner  of  Internal  Revenue,  Washington,  I).  C: 

Sir:  Referring  to  my  letter  of  the  28th  instant,  reporting  frauds  dis- 
covered in  the,  Otii  dist.,  N.  C,  and  the  recoveiy  of  seventeen  barrels 
of  spirils  stolen  iVoiii  thi^  distillery  warehouse  of  Q.  1).  Freeze,  on  Tues- 
day niglit,  0<',t.  2r)th,  1  have,  the  lionor  to  transmit  herewith  re[)()rt  of 
Revenue  Agent  McLe(sr  this  day  rec'd,  giving  a  detailed  account  of  the 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  527 

frauds  discovered  and  of  property  seized.  I  also  transiiiit  copy  of  a 
certificate  filed  in  the  ollice  of  the  collector  of  the  (ith  dist.,  on  Oct.  27, 
1881,  by  W.  A.  Daniels,  distiller,  certifying-  that  he  had  the  keys  of 
Freeze's  distillery  warehouse  in  his  possession  at  the  time  said  distil- 
lery warehouse  was  robbed  of  its  contents. 
Very  respectfully, 

A.  H.  BROOKS, 

Revenue  Agent. 

Statesville,  N.  C,  Oct.  27,  1881. 
I  hereby  certify  that  1  had  the  keys  of  distillery  No.  1773,  of  Q.  D. 
Freeze,  and  that  when  W.  G.  Bogle  tax-x)aid  two  bbls.  of  spirits  in 
warehoiise  of  said  distillery  I  retained  said  keys,  and  did  not  hand 
them  to  W.  G.  Bogle  until  the  morning  of  the  26th  of  October,  1881, 
about  8  o'clock  a.  m. 


W.  A.  DANIELS. 


Witness : 

W.  C.  Morrison. 


United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

Statesville,  N.  C,  Oct.  28,  1881. 
Col.  A.  H.  Brooks, 

Revenue  Agent,  Greensboro',  N.  C.  : 

Sir  :  I  have  the  honor  to  report  that,  on  the  morning  of  Oct.  24th, 
accompanied  by  R.  H.  Crawford,  I  visited  the  distillery  of  Q.  D.  Freeze, 
^  1773,  6th  dist.  of  N.  C,  located  near  Statesville.  This  distilleiy  sus- 
pended in  June  last,  and  is  still  under  suspension.  At  the  time  of  our 
visit  we  met  Mr.  Freeze  at  the  distillery.  Ui)on  examination  we  found 
that  he  had  made  one  mash  which  was  found  in  one  of  the  stills.  This 
Mr.  Freeze  at  first  claimed  Avas  for  his  hogs,  but  afterwards  admitted 
that  he  had  made  a  regular  mash  of  two  bushels  of  corn-meal  to  which 
he  had  added  one-half  a  peck  of  malt.  He  sai<l  the  regular  mash  was 
four  bushels  of  corn-meal  and  one  peck  of  malt.  The  mash  we  found 
Mr.  Freeze  said  he  had  made  on  Monday  afternoon  and  j)ut  in  the  still 
Tuesday  morning.  I  tasted  the  beer  and  found  it  sweet.  Mr.  Freeze 
said  he  intended  starting  the  fires  and  running  it  off  on  Friday.  All 
thc'tubs  were  turned  bottom  up,  but  when  I  turned  some  of  them  over 
they  showed  evidence  of  recent  use.  Freeze  then  pointed  out  the  four 
tubs  that  the  mash  was  made  in  which  we  found  in  the  still.  Mr. 
Crawford  and  I  drove  at  once  to  Statesville,  but  Mr.  Coite,  chief  dep- 
uty coll.  in  charge,  could  not  be  found.  We  looked  through  States- 
ville for  him,  and  finally  went  to  his  house,  where  I  was  told  by  a  lady 
there  that  he  had  gone  out  hunting  with  Col.  Alien,  and  would  not  re- 
turn until  evening.     Collector  Mott  was  also  absent  from  town. 

In  the  afternoon  we  again  went  to  the  distillery  of  Q.  D.  Freeze, 
this  time  accompanied  by  Gen'l  Store-keeper  and  Ganger  G.  W.  Sharp 
and  upon  examination  found  that  the  plug  had  been  piilled  off  the  dis- 
charge pipe  of  the  still  and  the  beer  allowed  to  run  out  on  the  floor 
and  through  into  the  creek.  Gen'l  Store-keeper  and  Ganger  Sharp, 
upon  being  asked  his  opinion,  made  the  remark  that  if  he  had  found 
such  a  state  of  affairs  he  would  report  same  to  coll.  office  and  recom- 
mend seizure  of  distillery  and  belongings.  Deputy  Collector  Coite 
came  to  the  hotel  about  7  o'clock  p.  m.,  and  Mr.  Crawford  and  I  went 


528  COLLECTION    OE    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

with  liim  to  his  office,  where  I  made  a  verbal  report  to  him  of  all  that 
had  taken  place,  and  he  decided  to  .seize  the  distillery,  with  all  S])irits 
in  the  warehouse,  in  the  morning"  withoiit  delay. 

The  next  mornin*;'  we  found  it  rumored  on  the  street  that  some  par- 
ties had  visited  the  distillery  of  Q.  I).  Freeze  during  the  night  and  re- 
moved the  stills  and  caps  from  the  distillery  and  also  the  whisky  in 
the  warehouse.  On  calling  at  the  collector's  office  in  relation  to  tlie 
matter  we  found  Dep.  Coll.  Coite  iipjtarently  ignorant  of  events  that 
were  said  to  have  transpired  dnring  the  night,  and  on  that  point  we 
did  not  enlighten  him.  He  said  he  was  waiting  for  some  one  to  come 
in  that  he  could  send  out  to  make  the  seizure;  was  also  waiting  for  the 
arrival  of  a  bill  of  sale  that  one  W.  A.  Daniels,  a  distiller  near  Freeze's 
distillery,  claimed  he  held,  duly  executed  by  Q.  D.  Freeze  to  him  last 
June,  covering  all  the  whisky  in  the  warehouse.  Mr.  Daniels  seemed  to 
be  very  much  exercised  about  developments  made  at  Freeze's  distillery. 
Deputy  Collector  Stockton  reported  to  me  that  he  had  held  a  conver- 
sation with  Mr.  Daniels  that  morning,  during  which  Mr.  Daniels  had 
remarked  to  the  effect  that  the  revenue  officers  had  been  to  Freeze's 
distillery,  found  things  wrong,  and  were  going  to  seize  everything,  but 
that  we — meaning  himself  and  unknown  party  or  parties — must  get  the 
best  of  them.  Deputy  Coll.  Davis,  in  the  office,  also  reported  to  me  that 
during  Tuesday  afternoon,  shortly  after  we  left  the  collector's  office,  Mr. 
Daniels  came  to  the  office  very  much  excited  and  wanted  to  know 
what  was  going  to  be  done  about  the  whisky  in  Freeze's  warehouse^ 
making  the  statement  at  the  time  that  it  belonged  to  him. 

Accompanied  b,y  Deputy  Coll.  Stockton,  we  again  visited  the  dis- 
tillery sui)posed  to  belong  to  Freeze  to  ascertain  if  the  reports  we 
had  heard  were  true.  We  fouiul  the  stills  and  caps  removed,  leav- 
ing the  worms  in  the  tubs.  On  looking  through  the  cracks  in  the  ware- 
house we  found  that  the  whisky  had  also  been  removed.  Upon  care- 
ful examination  of  the  warehouse  lock  we  found  it  in  the  same  condi- 
tion as  ui)on  our  visit  when  accompaiued  hy  Storekeeper  and  Ganger 
Sharp,  siiowing  conclusively  that  the  whisky  had  been  removed  by 
some  one  who  had  possession  of  the  warehouse  key.  Upon  further  in- 
quiry on  our  return,  we  ascertained  from  Dei)uty  Coll.  Collyer  that  the 
key  was  in  possession  of  G.  W.  Bogle,  store-keeper  and  ganger,  ])re- 
vious  to  that  day,  and  that  his  book  showed  that  said  key  was  deliv- 
ered to  said  Bogle  about  three  weeks  ago,  but  was  returned  by  hiui 
that  morning,  Oct.  '2iHh.  G.  W.  Bogle  was,  at  the  date  of  procuring 
key  and  up  to  Oct.  li()th,  store-keei)er  and  ganger  at  distillery  of  W. 
A.' Daniels,  ^  1003.  We  visited  Mr.  Bogle  at  his  distillery  and  asked 
him  in  relation  to  said  key.  He  at  tirst  denied  all  knowledge  of  (it)  to 
me,  saying  that  he  had  never  had  it  in  his  possession.  Upon  asking- 
how  it  happened  that  it  was  returned  by  him  at  the  office  that  same 
morning,  he  answered  at  once  that  he  was  mistaken  in  saying  he  never 
ha<l  had  it,  but  only  had  it  that  once  and  under  the  following  circum- 
stances: Mr.  Daniels  eame  to  him  that  morning  as  he  was  about  ready 
to  start  to  ids  distillery  and  ask«'d  liim  if  he  was  going  to  the  collect- 
or's oflice  Ix'torc  going  out.  lioglc,  answered  lie  was  not,  but  could  if 
Daniels  wIsImmI  iiim  to.  Daniels  then  said  he  had  tli<^  key  to  FrcM'ze's 
distilh'ry  warehouse  and  asked  liogic  to  return  them  to  the  collector's 
ollic(\  Mr.  l>ogl(!  at  once  comjdied  with  his  re(piest.  Upon  further 
questioning,  Mi-.  Bogle  further  admitted  that  he  had  made  two  with- 
<iravvals  during  the  last  three  weeks  lioni  Freeze's  warehouse  under 
direction  of  Mr.  l)ani(ds.  Mr.  Bogie  said  he  asketl  Mr.  Daniels  it'  he 
had  the  k(iy.     Mi-.  Daniels  said  yes.     Mr.  Daniels  uido(;ked   the  ware- 


THK    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NoRTII    CAROLINA.  520 

liou.se  for  Mr.  Bogie,  and  after  withdrawal  was  made  Mr.  Daniels 
locked  up  the  warehouse,  retaining  key  in  his  possession.  1  directed 
D.  Coll.  Ooite  to  send  for  Store-keeper  and  Ganger  Bogle.  He  at  once 
did  so  and  sent  Storekeeper  and  Ganger  Summers  to  take  his  place. 
I  then  directed  Mr.  Bogle  to  come  to  the  office,  there  confront<'(l  him 
with  Dep.  Coll.  Collyer  in  presence  of  Dep.  Coll.  Coite,  chief  in  charge, 
I  then  asked  Mr.  Collyer  who  lie  gav'e  the  key  to  Freeze's  warehouse 
to.  He  said  Mr.  Bogle.  1  asked  him  if  he  was  sure  of  it.  He  said  yes, 
showing-  as  evidence  his  book  with  memorandum  that  key  was  delivered 
to  Bogie.  Mr.  Bogie  denied  it  entire,  saying  again  that  he  never  liad 
the  key  until  it  was  given  him  by  Daniels  that  morning,  Oct.  26th.  I 
asked  Bogie  who  had  the  key  at  the  time  he  nmde  the  withdrawals  for 
Daniels.  He  said  that  Mr.  Daniels  had  it ;  that  jMr.  Daniels  unlo(;ked 
the  door,  and  that  after  withdrawal  Mr.  Daniels  locked  the  door  and 
retained  the  key  in  his  possession.  I  then  said  to  Mr.  Collyer  yon  and 
]\Ir.  Bogie  differ  very  much  in  your  statement  as  to  who  had  possession 
of  the  warehouse  key.  Mr.  Collyer  still  insisted  that  he  gave  it  to 
Bogle.  Deputj-  Coll.  Coite  then  made  the  following  suggestion  to  Mr. 
Collyer,  saying  that:  "Mr.  Collyer,  don't  you  mean  that  you  gave  the 
key  to  Daniels  for  Mr.  Bogie,  thinking  they  were  for  Mr.  B.,  as  he  was 
l)resent  at  the  time?  Did  you  not  gi\'e  it  to  Mr.  ]Janiels,  thinking  he 
would  hand  it  to  Mr.  Bogie,  and  that  it  would  be  returned  to  the  officers 
as  soon  as  withdrawal  was  made?  You  don't  mean  to  say  that  you 
gave  it  to  Mr.  Bogie,  but  that  you  gave  it  to  Mr.  Daniels  ?"  Mr.  Collyer 
hesitated  somewhat  in  replying,  saying-,  "Yes,  I  think  that  was  it. 
Yes,  that  was  it."  I  then  asked  Mr.  Collyer  if  it  was  such  a  couunou 
thing-  for  him  to  give  keys  to  distillers  direct,  that  he  was  so  uncertain 
in  this  case.  He  hesitated  somewhat  in  answering,  but  said,  "^o;  but 
what  Mr.  Coite  says  about  this  case  must  be  the  way  it  happened." 
Mr.  Bogie  admiitted  to  me  that  he  told  me  a  lie  about  the  key  at  tirst, 
saying-  he  was  willing  to  tell  a  lie  if  not  too  big-  a  one,  to  avoid  being  a 
witness  or  otherwise  implicated  in  this  case.  I  then  said  to  them, 
"Gentlemen,  now  let  me  see  if  I  have  the  sense  of  yonr  joint  meaning, 
viz,  that  Mr.  Daniels,  a  distiller,  came  to  this  office  between  two  and 
three  weeks  ago  and  got  the  key  to  the  warehouse  of  Q.  D.  Freeze  and 
retained  it  in  his  possession  from  that  time  until  this  mornin<>-,  and  that 
in  the  meantime  the  stills  and  all  the  whisky  in  Q.  D.  Freeze's  ware- 
honse  have  been  stolen,  and  that  this  nuuMiing-  Mr.  Daniels  handed  the 
key  to  Mr.  Boyle  who  returned  it  to  this  office,  and  that  it  would  ap- 
pear from  this  that  in  the  first  place  Mr.  Daniels  was  a  messenger  from 
Bogle,  and  that  in  the  second  place  that  Bogle  was  a  messenger  from 
Daniels  returning  the  key.  Am  I  to  understand  you  this  way,  gentle- 
men ?"     They  all  acknowledged  that  my  understanding  was  (^orrecr. 

NVe  began  search  for  the  missing-  stills  and  whisky  at  once,  first  get- 
ting out  a  warrant  for  arrest  of  Q.  D.  Freeze's,  and  a  search  warrant  foB 
the  i)remises  of  W.  A.  Daniels  near  the  distillery  of  Q.  D.  Freeze's. 
Deputy  Coll.  Stockton  got  out  the  search  warrant  at  my  direction,  and 
accompanied  us  that  afternoon  to  examine  the  buildings,  but  nothing 
was  found  that  afternoon.  As  the  case  seemed  to  implicate  several 
parties,  including-  officers,  I  thought  best  you  should  be  present,  and 
accordingly  telegraphed  you  to  come  to  Statesville.  The  next  morning, 
in  your  company,  I  drove  to  Freeze's  distillery,  and  found  at  the  distil- 
lery one  J.  C.  Barclay,  a  bondsman  of  Q.  D.  Freeze's.  Upon  informa- 
tion obtained  of  him  we  returned  to  Statesville,  got  out  another  search 
warrant,  and  accon)panied  by  Mr.  Crawford  and  a  store-keeper  and 
gaugei-  by  name  of  T.  A.  Gill,  returned  to  further  examine  the  build- 
S.  Mis.  IIG 34 


530  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

ings  and  gTouiid  of  W.  A.  Dauiels.  By  using  iron  rods  in  probing  the 
ground  in  a  I'reslily  i)]o\yed  tield  near  tlie  liouse,  we  were  soon  rewarded 
by  finding  the  wliisky  buried  in  a  gully  running  tlirougli  the  lot  at  vari- 
ous depths  underground.  We  discovered  there  seventeen  packages 
out  of  the  nineteen  that  the  warehouse  books  showed  were  in  the  ware- 
house. The  seventeen  packages  contained  seven  hundred  and  thirty 
gallons  of  spirits.  We  procured  teams  and  had  the  seventeen  packages 
removed  to  Statesville  and  stored  in  a  cellar  used  for  such  purposes 
under  the  collector's  oftice.  The  same  day  the  tax  was  ]>aid  on  all  the 
spirits  stored  in  the  two  warehouses  belonging  to  the  two  distilleries 
that  were  run  in  the  name  of  W.  A  Daniels,  viz.,  G4G  and  1003.  Said 
vSl)irits  were  removed  to  Statesville  and  stored  in  the  warehouse  of 
Pinkus  &  Co.  Soon  after  its  arrival  there  we  went  in  and  caused  its 
tU-tention,  having  reason  to  believe  that  Daniels  was  the  real  owner  of 
Freeze's  distillery,  and  that  Freeze  was  simply  a  tigurehead.  We  feared 
i\  rescue  of  the  spirits  might  be  attempted;  but  up  to  the  time  of  your 
leaving  on  the  midnight  train  to  return  to  Greensl^oro'  nothing  Cad 
l)een  attempted. 

The  next  morning  I  went  to  the  collector's  office  and  directed  Deputy 
Coll.  Coite  to  seize  the  two  distilleries  of  W.  A.  Daniels,  No.  040  anrl 
1003,  as  well  as  the  nine  packages  of  detained  spirits  in  warehouse  of 
Pinkus  and  Co.,  detained  by  us  last  night.  He  at  once  took  steps  to 
do  as  i  requested,  and  seized  the  following  property : 

6    copper  stills,  caps,  piping,  and  fixtures. 

3  bbls.  of  spirits,  (about  60  gallons.) 
U     "      "  gin. 

I     "      "  spirits,  (about  10  gallons.) 

(The  three  and  a  half  barrels  of  spirits,  and  one  and  a  half  barrels  of 
gin  were  found  in  an  outhouse  in  rear  of  dwelling-house  on  Daniel's 
premises  near  the  distillery.) 

Ten  Ims.  rye  and  fifteen  bus.  of  meal  in  the  distilleries,  480  gall's  beer, 
60  gall's  singiins  destroyed.  During  the  forenoon  J.  C.  Barclay,  the 
Leretofore-mentioned  bondsman  of  Q.  D.  Freeze's,  came  to  my  room  and 
said  he  knew  where  Freeze's  was  and  could  produce  him  at  any  time. 
At  my  suggestion  he  went  to  Freeze's  and  advised  him  to  surrender 
himself  to  the  commissioner;  Freeze's  did  so,  and  is  held  in  $250.00  bail 
for  his  appearance  on  the  28th  day  of  November.  The  date  was  fixed 
at  November  28th  to  gi\e  me  time  to  work  ui»  further  evidence  against 
Daniels,  and  also  to  suit  convenience  of  dist.  att'y,  who,  1  understand, 
Avill  be  engaged  at  Ash«>ville  court  until  about  that  time.  I  then  i)ro- 
«,'e(Mled  to  get  out  a  warrant  for  the  arrest  of  W.  A.  Daniels. 

In  examining  his  house  in  Statesville  for  him  we  found  the  following 
]»roperty  : 

4  <;()j)j>er  stills  and  fixtures  com[)lete. 
2  extra  worms. 

1  ])nm])  and  pi]nng. 

.3  s(*j»arat«'rs. 

Two  of  the  abo\('  stills  are  o\i<l('iitly  the  ones  stolen  from  l-'rceze's 
distillery,  as  one  of  them  was  wci  inside  and  had  nu^al  slicking  to  the 
.sid<;,  showing  recent  use. 

'J'lie  al)ove  goods   were  seized   by  Dep.  Coll.  ('oi1<;  at   my  suggestion. 

Ac('omj»anied  by  the<h'piily  marshal!,  who  had  the  warrant,  we  jno- 
*;e»Mle(l  on  oiu  scari-ii  for  N\'.  A.  I )aniels  during  the  atteriioon,  but  did 
not  MHiceed  in  linding  him. 

rpon  (examining  repoit  of  a])praisal  of  the  17  j^k'g's  of  s])irits  found 
J>niird  on   the  jinniises  of  W.  A.  Daniels,  I    found  value  i)laced  at   20 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  531 

cents  i)er  gallou  above  tax.  I  thought  that  too  low  according-  to  pres- 
ent market  value  of  the  goods,  and  so  told  Mr.  Coite.  He  insisted  that 
it  was  a  fair  valuation,  and  was  not  inclined  to  have  it  changed.  1  did 
not  argue  the  matter  with  him,  but  gave  him  to  understand  that  I  did 
not  tliink  it  a  fair  vahnition.  When  he  furnished  me  a  copy  of  ai)praise- 
ment,  at  my  recpiest,  I  found  tliat  appraisement  had  been  changed  to 
40  cents  per  gallon  above  tax,  instead  of  20c.  The  copy  of  said  second 
appraisement  is  herein  inclosed.  After  above  developments,  upon  vis- 
iting the  collector's  oflice,  we  were  shown  by  D.  Coll.  Coite  a  coj^y  of  a 
statement  made  by  W.  A.  Daniels,  evidently  ior  the  purpose  of  clear- 
ing Store-keeper  and  Guager  W.  G.  Bogle  from  complicity  in  above  mat- 
ter.    Said  copy  I  herein  inclose. 

I  have  no  confideuce  whatever  in  W.  G.  Bogle  as  store-keeper  and 
ganger,  and  believe  he  has  been  acting  as  a  spy  upon  our  movements 
in  interests  of  W.  A.  Daniels,  and  would  respectfully  recommend  his 
immediate  removal. 

W.  P.  A.  White,  store-keeper  and  ganger  at  distillery  i^  046,  of  W. 
A.  Daniels,  is  a  brother-in-law  of  said  Daniels.  While  1  have  no  evi- 
dence of  his  complicity  in  helping  to  remove  the  whisky  from  Freeze's 
warehouse,  yet,  from  remarks  made  by  him,  am  led  to  believe  that  he 
knew  of  its  removal  at  the  time,  and  also  knew  of  its  whereabouts.  I 
would  respectfully  request  also  in  his  case  immediate  removal  from 
duties  as  store-keeper  and  ganger. 

The  witness  to  statement  made  b}^  Daniels  relating  to  key  of  ware- 
house of  Q.  D.  Freeze's,  herein  inclosed,  is  also  a  brotber-in-law  of  W, 
A.  Daniels, 

Throughout  above  transactions  I  have  received  valuable  information 
and  aid  from  Store-keeper  and  Ganger  T.  A.  Gill,  now  unassigned  to 
duty.  I  believe  him  to  be  a  faithful  and  efflcient  officer,  and  would 
respectfully  recommend  his  immediate  assignment  to  some  distillery 
now  in  operation. 

Mr.  Gill's  name  will  again  appear  in  a  report  I  am  about  to  make  re- 
lating to  bargains  between  the  distillers  and  store-keepers  and  gangers 
of  this  district.  By  to-morrow  morning  I  expect  to  have  evidence  upon 
which  I  can  direct  seizure  of  the  teams  that  were  used  in  reuioving 
spirits  from  Freeze's  warehouse,  if  they  are  to  be  found, 
Yerv  respectfullv, 

EDWAED  McLEEE, 

Bev.  Ag't. 


No.  720. 


United  States  Internal  Ee venue, 

Greenshoro\  iV^.  0.,  Jan.  18,  1882. 
Hon,  Green  B,  Eaum, 

Commissioner  of  Int.  Rev.,  Washington,  B.  C: 
Sir  :  Eeferring  to  your  letter  of  the  10th  inst.,  initials  O.  F.  D.,  Ch., 
and  W,  T.  C,  inquiring  what  has  been  done  in  the  case  of  Q.  D,  Freeze 
and  W,  A.  Daniels  since  your  letter  to  me  of  the  11th  inst.,  I  have  the 
honor  to  rei)ort  that  1  have  not  received  the  letter  referred  to.  There 
has  been  no  further  action  taken  since  Daniels  and  Freeze  Avere  held  for 
the  action  of  the  U.  S.  court.  We  have  procured  additional  evidence 
against  Daniels,  and  I  am  satisfied  we  shall  be  able  to  convict  him. 
I  have  the  honor  to  transmit  herewith  copy  of  form  (117),  on  tile  in  the 


532  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

U.  S.  attorney's  office  here,  in  regard  to  the  seizure  of  nine  packages  of 
spirits  removed  Oct.  27  from  W.  A.  Daniels'  distillery  warehouses, 
while  we  were  engaged  in  digging  up  the  17  barrels  of  spirits  stolen 
from  Freeze's  warehouse  by  Daniels  on  the  night  of  Oct.  25th.  The 
form  (117)  on  file  in  the  U.  S.  attorney's  office  is  in  Chief  Deputy  Coite's 
handwriting.  I  would  especially  call  your  attention  to  the  pains  taken 
to  prepare  the  defense  in  this  case. 
Very  respectfully, 

A.  H.  BROOKS, 

Revenue  Agent. 


ISo.  922. 


United  States  Internal  Eevenue, 

Greensboro',  '^\  C,  Apr.  24,  1882. 
Hon.  Green  B.  Eaum, 

Commissioner  of  int.  Rev.,  Washington,  I).  C: 

Sir  :  Referring  to  the  charges  against  Deput;s'  Collector  J.  C.  Sulli- 
van, Oth  dist.  X.  C,  preferred  by  one  Jas.  C.  Miller,  a  distiller  in  said 
district,  and  which  charges  were  referred  to  me  for  investigation  under 
date  of  the  17th  inst.,  I  have  the  honor  to  report  tliat  the  papers  in  the 
case,  which  are  herewith  returned,  were  received  by  me  while  attend- 
ing U.  S.  court  at  Statesville  last  week.  The  charges  made  by  Miller 
are  the  same  charges  that  were  made  by  one  John  Shores,  jr.,  and  which 
were  reported  on  by  Revenue  Agent  Harrison,  under  date  of  Jan.  24, 
'82. 

Mr.  Sullivan's  statement,  under  date  of  March  3d,  explaining  why 
Miller's  bond  was  not  forwarded  by  him  is,  I  believe,  correct,  as  well  as 
his  statement  regarding  the  survey  of  Shores'  distillery. 

In  regard  to  his  not  sending  a  store  keeper  to  Miller's  distillery,  I  un- 
derstand that  Mr.  Miller  insisted  on  Mr.  Sullivan  recommending  the 
ai)polntment  and  assignment  to  his  distillery  of  a  certain  man,  which 
]\Ir,  Sullivan  declined  to  do  for  the  reason  that  several  distillers  had 
UKule  ap])licati()n  and  were  anxious  to  have  the  same  man  assigned  to 
their  distilleiics,  and  it  was  generally  understood  that  this  man  had 
agreed  to  divide  his  pay  with  the  distiller  at  whose  distillery  he  should 
be  assigned  to  duty. 

I  made  inquiry  of  some  good  citizens  of  Yadkin  County,  who  were 
atten<ling  U.  S.  court  at  Statesville  as  jurors,  who  know  Jas.  C.  Miller, 
and  they  inform  mc  that  he  is  not  a  man  worthy  of  belief,  and  has  very 
little  i)rincii)le. 

It  was  in  .Miller's  distillery  warehouse  that  Revenue  Agent  Harrison 
found  three  lewd  women  living,  referred  to  in  his  report  of  Jan'y  24, 
1882,  when  he  was  investigating  (charges  made  against  Sullivan  by  Jno. 
Shores,  jr. 

Tin;  chara(;ter   and    reputation  of  Jas.  C.    Miller  who    mak(\s    these 
charges  against  Sullivan  are  sucli  as  are,  in  my  opinion,  will  iu)t  justify 
fiiitliei-  tronble  and  investigation. 
\'erv  respect  liilly, 

A.  II.  BROOKS, 

Rcrotue  Agent. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  533 

No.  993. 

United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

Greensboro\  N.  C,  May  25,  1882. 
A.  H.  Brooks,  Esq., 

Revenue  Agent : 

Sir  :  I  have  the  bouor  to  submit  herewith  rej)orts  on  forms  19  on  dis- 
tilleries recently  visited  by  me  in  Otii  district. 

It  will  be  noticed  that  none  of  the  distilleries  visited  are  constructed 
as  required  by  law  and  regulations.  In  almost  every  distillery  I  found 
the  low-wine  tubs  set  down  in  the  ground  so  that  top  of  tub  would  be 
about  even  with  surface  of  tlie  ground.  Only  a  few  of  the  cistern 
rooms  were  lloored,  and  but  two  of  them  (lontAiwed  fixed  cisterns.  In 
most  cases  spirits  are  run  into  i^ackages  placed  in  the  cistern  room, 
which  packages  are  warehoused  when  tilled.  No  attention  whatever  is 
paid  to  the  regulation  requiring  each  day's  product  to  be  kept  separate. 

The  temperature  and  gravity  of  the  beer  is  not  taken  and  entered, 
and  but  one  of  the  distilleries  visited  liad  supplied  a  saccharometer. 

The  officers  in  charge  keep  such  books  as  are  kept  by  the  distillers. 

Nearly  every  package  found  in  the  warehouses  had  been  previously 
used  for  same  purpose,  and  almost  every  one  of  them  bore  old  gangers' 
marks  and  brands. 

In  my  opinion,  a  more  rigid  compliance  to  the  requirements  of  the 
regulations  should  be  exacted,  and  is  absolutely  essential  to  the  proper 
collection  of  the  revenue. 
Very  respectfully, 

J.  E.  HETHER^GTON. 


The  following  papers  were  offered  in  evidence  by  Mr.  Pool  in  behal 
of  Dr.  Mott: 

EXHIBITS. 

Iso.  1. — statement  showing  condition  of  the  office  of  J.  J.  Mott,  collector 
Gth  district  of  North  Carolina,  at  the  close  of  business  honrs  on  the 
30th  day  of  October,  1874,     Examined  by  J.  C.  Wheeler. 

(Table  accompanying,  etc). 

Considerable  of  the  amount  held  as  collectible  is  not  really  collectible, 
and  applications  for  the  abatement  of  such  taxes  are  to  be  made  at 
once,  and  eiibrts  made  to  collect  all  the  balance. 

The  discrepancies  occuiring  in  the  stamp  accounts,  as  enumerated 
in  this  report,  were  corrected  in  the  collector's  October  reports  by  his 
taking  credit  for  excesses,  and  de})ositing  the  net  deficiency,  viz. 
$2,978.23.  These  errors  are  attributable  to  the  fact  that  the  collector 
has  not  had  a  competent  clerk  for  some  time  past,  and  the  records  have 
not  been  properly  kept  up. 

I  have  never  had  specific  instructions  relative  to  the  manner  of  ad- 
justing such  discrepancies,  and  am  not  certain  that  I  am  fully  war- 
ranted in  authorizing  collectors  to  take  credit  for  excesses,  and  would 
be  pleased  to  receive  information  on  this  subject.  The  collector,  in  this 
instance  should,  I  think,  be  allowed  to  make  his  reports,  as  above 
mentioned,  for  October,  as  it  is  my  firm  belief  that  his  accounts  be- 


534  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

came  mixed  up  throngli  no  direct  fault  of  bis,  aud  that  the  full  amount 
of  stamps  disposed  of  will  have  been  accounted  for  in  this  way,  as  the 
differences  have  been  accumulating  ever  since  the  examination  of  his 
ofldce  in  January  last. 

Very  respectfully, 

JAS.  C.  WHEELER, 

Special  Cleric. 


JVo.  2. — Statement  s1ton-in(/  condition  of  the  office  of  J.  J.  Jfott,  collector  of 
Ctth  district  of  Xorth  Carolina,  at  the  close  of  business  honrs  on  the  IWt 
of  October^  1875.     Examined  by  Jas.  C.  Wheeler. 

(Table  accompanying,  etc.) 

Much  work  has  been  done  on  the  old  lists  in  the  past  six  or  eight 
months,  and  many  of  the  old  taxes  disposed  of,  payment  in  many  cases 
haye  been  made  by  Collector  Mott — when  receipts  giyen  by  John  A. 
Ramsey,  a  former  deputy  of  his — were  found.  It  is  belieyed  these  taxes 
haye  never  been  reported  or  paid  by  said  deputy,  and  a  civil  suit  for 
the  recovery  of  the  same  is  about  to  be  brought  by  the  collector  against 
said  Ramsey. 

The  lists  now  being  carried  are  in  a  condition  to  be  soon  disposed  of 
by  abatements  or  collections. 

'  or"  the  81,493.11  held  as  collectible,  it  is  thought  about  81,000  will  be 
collected  during  the  present  month. 

The  office  affairs  are  in  a  good  condition. 
Very  respectfullj^, 

JAS.  C.  WHEELER, 

Eevenne  Agent. 


No.  4. — Statement  shoicing  condition  of  the  office  of  J.  J.  Mott,  collector 
fith  district  of  North  Carolina,  at  the  close  of  business  hours  on  the  4^th 
day  of  Api'il,  1877.     Examined  by  Jas.  C.  Wheeler. 

(Table  accompanying,  etc.) 

Tlie  force  of  sjjccial  de])uty  collectors  allowed  for  tliis  district  had  all 
been  a])pointed  previous  to  my  cxaminiition  of  the  olfuie.  The  men  em- 
1»](».\(m1  seem  to  liave  been  selected  with  :i  yi(^w  to  securing  the  suppres- 
sion (»f  IVaiids  existing  in  this  (listrict.  Tiiey  were  out  on  a,  raid  against 
illicit  distilleri<'s.  It  is  thought  thiit  the  ])ro])eity  which  has  already 
been  seize<l  by  them  will  net  the  go\-eniiii('iit  more  than  the  expense 
incurred  in  tlx^r  enii)loyment. 

There  is  a  manifest  desire  .on  the  ])art  of  ( .ollector  Mott  and  his  dep- 
uties tobreak  iij)  the  fraud  and  s(!curo  tlie  collection  of  the  revenue  in  his 
<lisfii('t.  The  collector  thiidvs,  however,  that  tlie  entire  force  now  em- 
])loye<l,  incliidiiig  the  special  <lepiities,  will  be  needed  constantly  to  do 
that  effectually — especially  if  the  use  of  troo])S  is  to  be  dispensed  with. 

The  inside  workings  of  the  office  are  fust  rale,  and  no  coin|>laints  can 
l»c  niad<;  in  relation  thereto. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  535 

No.  5. — Stdtement  shoiviiij/  condition  of  office  of  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  iitk 
(Ustrict  (f  North  Carolina,  at  the  close  of  Imsine.ss  hours  on  the  12th  of 
yovemher,  1877.     Examined  by  Jan.  C.   Wheeler. 

(Table  accoinpanyiiig,  etc.) 

Owiii^'  to  tlie  large  number  of  fruit  distilleries  iu  this  district,  the 
clerical  work  iu  the  ofitice  is  very  heavy.  The  office  is  iu  good  condi- 
tion, and  the  employes,  so  far  as  1  saw.  are  competent  and  energetic. 
The  large  extent  of  territory  comprising  the  district  and  its  mountain- 
ous nature,  requires  a  good  force  of  employes  to  prevent  frauds,  and 
give  the  business  proper  sui)erVision — I  think  the  collector  is  using  his 
best  endeavors  to  keep  his  district  in  good  condition. 


No.  7. — Statement  showing  condition  of  office  of  J.  J.  Mott,  collector  of 
the  Gth  district  of  North  Carolina,  at  the  close  of  business  hours  on  the 
dth  of  Sept.,  1878.     Examined  by  J.  R.  Hale,  rev.  ag't. 

(Table  accompanying,  etc.) 

REMAEKS. 

Every  notable  merit  or  deficiency  observed  by  the  examining  officer 

should  be  reported. 

Sixth  District,  X.  C. 

I  found  the  stamp  account  and  the  sales  record  in  very  good  shape. 
The  same  cannot  be  said,  however,  of  the  lists,  the  unsatisfactory  con- 
dition of  which  will  be  seen  by  reference  to  the  special  report  herewith. 
I  do  not  know  that  it  is  possible  to  collect,  in  all  cases,  the  class  of  as- 
sessments shown,  which  are  mainly  against  distillers.  But  this,  if  true, 
ought  not  to  entirely  excuse  the  officers  from  taking  the  proper  steps  to 
dispose  of  them  by  causing  claims  to  be  prepared  for  the  abatement  of 
erroneous  assessments,  and  by  referring  the  remaiuder  to  the  dist.  at- 
torney for  his  action. 

Another  deficiency  observ^ed  by  me  is  the  very  general  neglect  to  col- 
lect penalty  and  interest  on  assessed  taxes  when  not  paid  within 
the  prescribed  time.  The  reason  given  me  was  that  it  is  almost  anim- 
possil)ility  to  collect  the  bare  amounts  assessed,  and  to  add  penalties 
thereto  would,  in  most  instances,  prevent  the  collection  of  the  tax.  This 
may  be  true,  as  to  this  section  of  the  country,  but  the  law  seems  to  al- 
low no  discretion  whatever  to  the  collector  iu  such  cases. 

I  was  very  favorably  impressed  with  Collector  Mott,  and  regard  him 
as  the  proper  person  to  occu])y  that  position  in  a  district  so  peculiar,  in 
many  respects,  as  this.  He  is  very  earnest  in  his  desire  to  break  up  the 
illicit  distillation  of  spirits,  and  almost  his  entire  time  is  given  to  that 
work.  If  it  is  possible  to  excuse  the  shortcomings  of  officers,  in  com- 
paratively minor  matters,  I  think  that  this  is  such  a  case,  and  there- 
fore I  do  not  grade  the  office  as  low  as  I  should  otherwise  do. 


536  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    EEVENUE    IN 

Ko.  !>. — Statement  shoicing  condition  of  the  office  of  J.  J.  Mott^  collector 
(jtit  district  of  North  Carolina,  at  the  close  of  business  hoiirs  on  the  Sth 
day  of  February,  1879.     Examined  by  Chas.  P.  Brown. 

(Table  aceompaiiyiug,  etc.) 

REMARKS. 

Every  notable  merit  or  deficiency  observed  by  the  exaniiiiiug  officer 

should  be  reported. 

The  alphabetical  list  of  special  taxes  is  written  up  from  the  daily  rec- 
ord at  end  of  month.     January,  1879,  sales  not  entered. 

The  ledger  account  of  stamps  sold  to  tob.  m'fr's  is  nmde  up  at  end  of 
month.  January,  1879,  entries  not  yet  made.  The  entries  are  made 
continuously  without  leaving  any  space  at  end  of  month,  or  footing- 
sales  for  each  mouth. 

The  record  now  in  use  by  the  collector  is  suitable,  and  a  new  one  will 
not  be  needed  until  this  one  is  filled. 

Bonds  are  informal  in  that  they  do  not  in  all  cases  have  the  Cliristian 
names  of  signers  written  in  full  in  the  body  of  the  bond — and  so  signed 
thereto — and  in  a  good  many  cases  the  residence  of  signers  is  not 
stated. 

Some  attention  has  been  given  to  the  collection  of  penalties  and  iu- 
tert'st  on  taxes  in  the  last  two  months. 

Olfice  hours  are  from  9  a.  m.  until  dark,  and  some  of  the  clerks  do 
con.siderable  work  at  night.  Remittances  to  tlie  depository  are  made 
in  even  thousands.  The  trains  leave  the  station  at  2  p.  m.,  and  cash  to 
go  away  has  to  be  made  up  early  in  the  day,  and  money  coming  in 
later  often  makes  over  $1,000  on  hand  at  close  of  business. 

As  the  collector  has  only  a  fairly  secure  safe,  and  burglaries  are  fre- 
queiit,  it  seems  to  me  he  should  be  authorized  to  send  all  his  money  on 
hand  at  the  hour  the  rennttance  is  made  up. 

The  allowance  for  office  rent,  $100.00,  is  not  enough  to  secure  such  ac- 
commodations as  the  office  sliould  have. 

GENERAL    SUMMARY. 

J  am  of  the  o])inion  tliat  all  the  nuiterial- interests  of  the  government 
are  yell  looked  after  iu  this  district.  Collector  Mott  seems  to  me  to  be 
just  the  man  i'(;(juircd  for  such  a  district  as  this. 

The  office  accommodations  are  not  good  by  any  means,  and  the  office 
is  not  tidy  or  orderly.  In  a  more  commodious  and  convenient  office, 
with  good  desks  and  ])laces  for  books,  blanks,  and  files,  this  would  be 
uiid(»ul>tedly  improved,  and  with  i)rescnt  accommodations  should  be 
iiii|tio\('(l. 

I  think  ('oilcclor  .Motfs  nninagemcnt  of  the  outside  alfairsof  his  dis- 
trict, as  J  undcjstand  it,  admirable. 

(Jra(h'  of  oni(;e,  as  ]M'rs<;ale  of  merit,  ]S'o.  2. 

]{('spcct  Ciilh  snl)niil  t('(|. 

(JllAS.  P.  lUiOWN,  yl(/ew^. 

STA'I'KSVILI.E,   Feb.  U,  '79. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  537 

No.  20. 

Table  accompany ing'  the  original  Form  B,  for  quarter  ending  June  30, 

1870. 

Eemarlcs  of  the  inHpeciiny  officer. 

Deputy  (t.  W.  Williams  answered  all  questions  relating  to  the  duties 
of  a  division  deputy  in  his  division.  Is  an  efiicient  and  popular  ofhcer. 
Has  the  (jounties  of  Buncombe,  Henderson,  Transylvania,  Haywood, 
and  Madison. 

Dep'y  F.  P.  Axley  also  has  a  large  division,  conq)osed  of  the  counties 
of  Cherokee,  Graham,  Swaine,  Clay,  Macon,  and  Jackson,  and  has 
shown  considerable  impovement  in  his  familiarity  with  the  int.  rev. 
regulations  since  last  examination. 

Dep't  M.  W.  Jewett,  assigned  to  ^Gaston  and  Cleveland  Co's.  Is  an 
cliicient,  capable,  and  honest  officer.  Has  abont  40  bonded  distilleries 
to  look  after  in  his  division. 

Dep'y  J.  A.  Lillingiin  has  the  division  composed  of  Polk,  Rutherford, 
and  McDowell  Counties.  Is  an  active  and  efficient  officer  in  the  discharge 
of  the  regular  duties  of  his  division,  and  has  been  most  energetic  in 
breaking  up  illicit  distilleries  and  trying  to  prevent  fraud  in  his  division. 

Dep'y  W.  J.  Bailey  has  the  division  composed  of  Union,  Mecklenburgh, 
Cabarrus,  and  Rowan,  has  become  familiar  with  the  duties  by  long  ex- 
perience, and  makes  a  good  officer. 

Dep'y  J.  Q.  A.  Bryan  has  the  division  composed  of  the  counties  of 
Alleghany,  Ashe,  Watawga,  Yancy,  and  Mitchell,  in  which  there  are 
about  150  fruit  distilleries.  Like  Deputy  Bailey  he  has  had  much  expe- 
rience, and  is  an  excellent  officer.  Has  been  very  successful  in  obtain- 
ing information  against  illicit  distillers  wherever  he  has  been  assigned. 

Dep'y  J.  C.  Sullivan  has  been  appointed  during  the  quarter,  from 
position  of  st'k.  and  g.,  is  making  a  very  good  division  deputy. 

Dep'y  W.  H.  Hobson  has  division  composed  of  the  counties  of  Burke 
and  Caldwell.  Is  an  active  and  faithful  officer  in  a  division  which  is 
hard  to  control. 

Dei>uty  A.  B.  Gillesi)ie  is  an  honest,  capable,  and  efficient  officer ; 
lias  a  knowledge  of  his  duties  which  he  has  acquired  liy  study  and  ex- 
perience. 

I  am  constrained  to  add  in  respect  to  the  sobriet;^'  of  the  deputy  col- 
lectors, and  officers  generally  of  the  district,  that  I  do  not  know  of  one 
addicted  to  intemperate  habits.  It  is  a  rule  of  the  collectors  to  dis- 
charge any  employefor  drinking,  audit  has  become  so  well  established 
that  it  is  rarely  violated. 
Very  respectfully^, 

W.  H.  CHAPMAN, 

Rev.  A(jH. 

Note  A. 

Answer  to  question  14  (Form  B). — Illicit  distillers  in  Swain  and 
Graham  Counties,  Have  used  all  means  and  made  every  effort  to  sup- 
IH'ess  them  at  my  command.  Are  situated  in  remote  places  in  the 
mountains,  and  it  is  difficult  to  get  guides. 

F.  P,  AXLEY, 
D.  Coll. 


538  collection  of  internal  revenue  in 

United  States  Internal  Kevenue,  Dep'y  Collector's  Office 
0th  District,  North  Carolina. 

XOTE  B. 

Answers  to  questions  13  (Do  you  know  of  or  have  you  reason  to  sus- 
pect the  perpetration  of  frauds  in  the  manufacture  or  sale  of  spirits, 
malt  liquors,  tobacco,  or  cigars  in  your  division  '?)  and  14  on  Form  B. 


Statesville,  X.  C,  Jidij  1,  1879. 

Col.  W3I.  H.  Chapman, 

U.  S.  Int.  Kerenue  Agent: 

Sir:  There  have  been  and  no  doubt  are  now  in  the  counties  of  Al- 
leghany and  Ashe  illicit  whisky  distilleries  in  operation.  They  are 
not  operated  constantly,  but  occasionally,  and  at  different  points.  In 
the  eastern  end  of  Alleghany  County,  near  the  Virginia  line,  two  dis- 
tilleries have  been  operated,  and  one  of  them  is  said  to  be  in  operation 
now.  Warrants  are  in  the  hands  of  the  deputy  marshal  for  their  ar- 
rest. This  distillery  is  being  operated  by  Gilbert  Edwards  and  Phelix 
Edwards.  There  is  another  distillery  operated  in  the  vicinity  of  Laurel 
Springs,  Ashe  County,  by  a  notorious  set  of  men  by  the  name  of  Woody  ^ 
and  on  Horse  Creek,  about  10  miles  north  of  Jefferson,  is  another, 
operated  occasionally  by  a  man  b}'  the  name  of  J.  Miller,  and  farther 
north,  near  the  Pond  Mountain,  in  the  roughest  portion  of  the  county, 
there  are  others  operated,  but  the  parties  I  do  not  know ;  but  will  as- 
certain their  names  soon,  and  take  steps  to  have  them  brought  to  justice. 

These  distilleries  cannot  be  seized  without  a  small  force.  One  or 
two  men  would  be  resisted,  in  my  opinion.  I  am  also  informed  that 
whisky  and  tobacco  is  being  transported  from  this  State  by  wagons 
and  on  foot  to  Va.  ]  but  I  am  not  able  to  give  the  names  of  the  parties 
thus  engaged,  but  hope  to  overtake  them  soon.  Any  information  that 
I  may  receive  in  the  future  touching  those  frauds  will  be  promptly  re- 
l^orted. 

Kespectfully, 

J.  Q.  A.  BKYAN, 

Deputy  Coll. 

Note  C. 

In  the  Soutli  ^Nroiintains  of  Burke  County,  I  believe  there  are  a  good 
many  illicit  distilleries  now  running.  We  captured  and  destroyed  last 
month  0  or  .S  of  them.  I  have  information  that  there  is  also  8  or  10  in 
Caldwell  (Jountv,  which  we  h()])e  to  be  able  to  attend  to  at  an  early 
day. 

Veiv  r<'S|»('<;tfiillv, 

W.  H.  1 1  OB  SON, 
/>.  Coll.  Hth  Dir.  of  i\th  JH.S.  N.  6\ 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  539 

No.  5. 

United  States  Internal  Eevenue, 

Morganton,  Sept.  20tJi,  1877. 

(Table  accompanying  the  original.) 

In  reply  to  (juestion  No.  4  (Form  C,  report  of  an  inspection  of  officers 
in  the  Gth  district  of  X.  C,  27th  Sept.,  1877),  "  Bo  you  ever  gauge, 
mark,  and  stamp  casks  in  advance  of  their  being  filled  f 

Eelative  to  gauging,  I  would  say,  that  on  the  day  of  gauging  spirits 
for  entry  into  warehouse,  I  first  weigh  the  spirits  in  the  cisterns,  cor. 
val.  of  same;  then  I  gauge  the  barrels,  brand  and  affix  the  D.  W. 
stamp,  and  immediately  thereafter  I  fill  such  barrel  out  of  the  cistern  in 
which  the  sp'ts  have  been  weighed,  &c. 

H.  W.  MOOEE. 


United  States  Internal  Eevenue, 

Monjanton,  N.  C,  Sept.  26th,  1877. 
Sir  :  In  reply  to  question  No.  19  (Form  C),  "  Do  you  know  or  sus- 
pect the  perpetration  of  frauds  in  the  manufacture  or  sale  of  spirits  in 
your  division  f 

We  would  state  that  we  hear  frequently  of  illicit  distilling  and  traffic 
in  whisky,  and  have  reported  the  same  to  the  collector  from  time  to 
time,  and  shall  continue  to  do  so  whenever  any  information  comes  to 
us.  The  section  where  we  reside  is  known  to  be  infested  by  violators  of 
the  law,  but  they  are  naturally  wary,  and  avoid  us  as  nuich  as  possible. 
Eespectfully, 

E.  A.  COBB. 
H.  W.  MOOEE. 
JOHN  CAESON. 
C.  C.  JONES. 
J.  E.  BALLEW. 


United  States  Internal  Eevenue, 
Dep'y  Collector's  Office,  District,  N.  C, 

Sepfr  27th,  1877. 
Major  Jacob  Waoner  : 

Dear  Sir  :  In  answer  to  question  19  I  have  to  say,  I  have  no  per- 
sonal knowledge  of  any  blockading  going  on,  but  have  reason  to  be- 
lieve there  is  some  illicit  distilling  going  on  in  Wilkes  County  on  Hunt- 
ing Creek.  I  heard  a  distiller  say  the  other  day  he  was  satisfied  there 
was  20  illicit  whisky  distilleries  going  on  in  four  miles  of  his  house.  I 
am  satisfied  there  is  much  less  going  on  now  than  was  a  few  months 
ago,  and  unhesitatingly  say  I  believe  the  collector  has  done  all  in  his 
power  to  suppress  it. 
Eespectfully, 

C.  S.  COOK,  S.  and  G. 


United  States  Internal  Eevenue, 

Se^yt.  21th,  1877. 
Maj.  Jacob  Wagner — to  question  19. 

Sir:  I  have  reason  to  believe  that  there  is  violations  of  the  int.  rev- 


540  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

enue  in  my  county,  Wilkes,  by  a  number  of  persons  in  the  distillation 
of  wliisky.  There  has  (been)  great  efforts  made  by  the  collector,  Dr. 
Mott,  to  sujjpress  it,  but  owing  to  the  roughness  of  the  country  he  has 
been  unable  to  do  so,  but  has  suppressed  a  large  number  of  them.  I 
ha^e  no  personal  knowledge  of  the  facts  of  the  immediate  location  of 
the  distilleries. 

Eespectfully, 

J.  B.  SIMONTON, 

Stoi-^k.  and  Gaiujer. 


REMAEKS    OF   THE   INSPECTING   OFFICER. 

The  illiterate  character  of  the  population,  and  the  rugged  character 
of  the  country,  renders  it  difficult  for  Collector  Mott  to  secure  the  serv- 
ices of  gangers  fully  competent,  and  possessing  the  highest  qualifica- 
tions at  all  times,  but  the  officers  herein  embraced  are  generally  well 
informed  as  to  their  duties,  and  appear  to  be  a  good  class  of  men. 
There  are  none  among  them  whom  I  would  reject,  as  far  my  knowledge 
goes. 

JACOB  WAGNER, 


(Tabular  statements  accomi^anying  the  originals. 


Revenue  Agent. 


No.  0. 

United  States  Internal  Eevenue, 

Asheville,  N.  C,  Nov.  Sth,  1877. 

(Table  accompanying  the  original.) 

Sir  :  In  answei'  to  (piestiou  No.  19,  1  would  state  that  I  have  heard 
of  illicit  distilling  going  on  in  the  State  of  Georgia  near  where  I  am 
assigned  to  duty.  It  is  in  the  counties  bordering  on  the  N.  C.  and 
Georgia  lines.  The  distillery  to  which  I  am  assigned  to  duty  is  near 
the  Georgia  line. 

ltes])cctfullv, 

G.  AV.  CANNON, 

U.  S.  Gamjcr  and  Stlc'r. 
.Mr.  .Iacoi!  Wagner, 

(J.  iS'.  licv.  Afjcnt. 


UNiTi;i)  Statics  Jntjornal  IvEVENUE, 

Asheville,  Nov.  dth,  1877. 
N(».  II. — Stiilc  prooi"  giills.  in  v.ich  warclionsc   under  your  charge  at 
this  (hitc,  Nov.  Sill. 

No.  1.'}. —  How  many  wit  hdraw  ills  made  in  hist  month  ? 
I>i:ai.*  Siij  :    In    nnswri-  to  ;il»o\-c   in(|uiri<!s,  I    Inive  the   ph^asnre  of 
iiKiUing  llic  roliowiii^  stiilcincnt  : 

I,  W.  II.,  (ir,ii  (N.  llolCiniin   ^  Co.),  S(;!)  giiTs;  (If);*,  (Wesley  Walker), 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  541 

128  gal's;  657  (F.  A.  M.  Boyd),  334  gal's;  in  20  old,  No.  —  (Moore  & 
Cliedester),  580  gals.    These  are  all  proof  gallons. 

Withdrawn  in  past  month  from  W.  II,,  052  (N.  H.  Hoffman  &  Co.),  one 
(1)  package;  from  W.  H.,  653  (Wesley  Walker),  one  (1)  package. 

Of  my  own  knowledge,  am  not  cognizant  of  any  violations  of  the 
revenne  laws,  especially  illicit  distilling;  but  am  of  opinion  that  it 
exists  nevertheless.  It  is  the  general  complaint  of  bonded  distillers 
that  they  cannot  carry  on  their  business,  because  of  the  competition 
in  the  market  by  illicit  manufacturers  and  traflficers. 
I  am,  with  respect,  j^our  ob'd't  servant, 

C.  W.  EVE, 
GenH  SfJc'er  and  Ganger. 
Jacob  Wagner,  Esq., 

U.  8.  Bit.  Revemie  Agt.,  Greensboro^  iV.  C. 

In  answer  to  question  19,  I  will  state  that  I  have  been  told  by  the 
most  reliable  citizens  of  Macon  County  that  tliere  is  a  delegation  of 
illicit  dealers  from  Kaburn  Count}^,  Georgia,  adjoining  State  and 
county,  headed  generally  by  one  notorious  Eugene  Beck,  who  defies  all 
officers,  State  or  ISTational.  The  citizens  of  the  above-named  county 
can't  run  a  registered  distillery  for  fear  of  these  blockaders.  There  was 
bonded  men  in  the  county  that  was  notified  that  they  was  in  danger  to 
attempt  to  run  a  Registered  distillery,  in  consequence  of  Avhich  said 
parties  declined  to  operate,  leaving  Macon  County  without  a  govern- 
ment distillery,  I  have  heard  of  other  depredations  in  Graham  and 
other  western  counties,  but  heard  no  names. 

GEOEGE  H.  SMATHERS, 

U.  S.  Ganger. 

ASHEVILLE,  N.  C,  Nov.  8,  1877. 


United  States  Internal  Revenue, 

Charlotte,  JV.  C,  Dec.  4,  1877. 
Sir  :  In  answer  to  question  No.  19,  Form  C,  I  would  state  that  I  have 
reason  to  believe  that  illicit  spirits  are  brought  from  Wilkes  County  by 
a  man  named  Bell,  and  sold  by  him  in  small  quantities,  in  the  woods 
on  the  outskirts  of  Charlotte,  the  empty  casks  being  then  hauled 
back  by  him  to  Wilkes  County  and  refilled.  He  comes  at  irregular  in- 
tervals, generally  with  one  wagon,  containing  from  one  to  four  barrels. 
I  have  watched  for  this  party,  and  shall  continue  to  do  so. 
Very  respectfully, 

R.  F.  DAVIDSON, 
U.  S.  Ganger,  6th  iJist.  N.  C. 
To  Jacob  Wagner, 

Bevenne  Agent. 


REMARKS   OF   THE   INSPECTING   OFFICER. 

J.  W.  Cannon,  gaugerand  store-keeper.  Qualifications,  information  of 
law  and  regulations,  efficiency  and  knowledge  of  duties,  fair.  Standing, 
morals  and  character  good. 

P.  H.  Kilpatrick,  ganger  and  store-keeper,  not  assigned.  Information 
as  to  law  and  regulations  indifferent.  Qualifications  as  a  fruit-brandy 
ganger,  fair.     Character,  good. 


542  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

C.  W.  Eve,  geueral  store-keeper.  Is  well  informed  in  liis  duties  and 
efficient.     His  standing,  morals,  and  cbaracter  are  good. 

G.  H.  Smatliers,  ganger.  Has  been  employed  in  ganging  fruit-brandy 
exclusively.  His  qualifications  are  indifit'erent,  while  he  ai^pears  to  be 
fairly  informed  as  to  his  duties.     His  character  and  reputation  are  good. 

G.  W.  Sharjie,  store-keeper  and  ganger.  Has  a  very  fair  knowledge 
of  his  duties,  and  the  law  and  regulations.  The  requirements  of  the 
latter  are  complied  with  at  the  distillery.  His  qualifications,  standing- 
morals,  and  reputation  are  good. 

E.  B.  Drake,  general  store- keeper.  Is  a  man  of  excellent  standing, 
and  character,  and  fair  qualifications,  but  is  not  very  neat  in  the  pre- 
paration of  his  papers. 

M.  A.  White,  general  store-keeper.  Has  charge  of  a  large  number  of 
distilleries  under  suspension,  the  warehouses  of  which  contain  all,  more 
or  less,  spirits.  Mr.  White  is  an  efficient  and  industrious  officer,  whose 
merits  in  this  respect  exceed  his  qualifications ;  which,  however,  are 
fair.     His  standing  and  reputation  are  good. 

E.  F.  Davidson,  ganger.  Has  been  emploj^ed  on  fruit-brandy  oulj'. 
His  exceeding  nervousness  is  an  objection  to  him,  rendering  it  almost 
impossible  for  him  to  write.  His  qualifications  are  indifferent.  Stand- 
ing, morals,  and  character  good. 

JACOB  WAGNEE, 

^        Revenue  Agent. 


No.  7. 
(Table  accompanying  the  original  Form  B.) 

Question  Xo.  li.  (Report  of  inspection  of  officers  in  Cth  district,  State 
of  North  Carolina,  8th  day  of  Nov'r,  1877.) 

Are  there  any  illicit  stills  operated  in  your  division  ?  If  so,  state 
their  location,  and,  give  ])articulars  of  your  efforts  to  suppress  them. 

There  are  some  illicit  distilleries  in  my  division,  on  the  line  of  South 
Carolina,  in  Transylvania  Co. 

I  am  now  laying  the  foundation  for  a  raid  to  be  made  ui)on  these  dis- 
tillers by  gathering  all  the  information  I  can  procure  as  to  locality,  &c., 
it  being  impossible  to  take  any  active  steps  towards  subduing  these 
operations  without  a  large  force. 

M.  W.  JEWETT, 

Deputy  CoU. 

Answer  to  question  14. 

IMiere  is  a  great  improvement  in  the  counties  of  Cleveland,  Polk,  and 
JjMtlierford,  wlii(;li  forms  the  7th  division  in  the  flth  dist.  of  N.  C.  I 
Ijiixc  no  ]<nowI('dge  of  any  illicit  distilling  going  on,  and  am  satislied 
Ili;it  there  Inis  bccMi  less  than  at  any  time  since  the  surrender.  The  ap- 
jK)intnient  of  special  (le]>nties,  has,  I  think,  ha<l  a  good  intluence.  I 
can  giv«!  no  corrcctt  idea  of  what  will  l>e  done  when  the  lu'eseiit  cro])  of 
corn  is  galiier<'(I,  \n\\  am  im])ressed  liiat  there  will  b<^  l(\ss  illicit  traffic 
than  lias  Im-cii  usual. 

,1.   i;.   KAVES, 
Ih-jK  Coll.,  llh  Dir.,  (\lli  />ist.  K  C. 

Nov.  IL',  I.S77. 


THir    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NOETH    CAROLINA.  543 

United  States  Internal  Eevenue, 

iStatesville,  Nov.  lOth,  1877. 
Sir:  In  answer  to  <]nesti()ii  5tli,  on  Form  B  (Are  you  familiar  wiih 
the  books  reciuired  to  he  kept  by  the  various  manufacturers  and  deal- 
ers required  to  keep  books  ?)  I  would  state  that  1  have  been  in  the 
service  but  a  few  days,  and  am  making  myself  acquainted  with  the 
various  details  of  my  duties  as  fast  as  possible. 
Kespectfullv, 

FEAXK  DAVIS. 
Maj.  Jacob  Wagner, 

U.  S.  Revenue  Agent. 


REMARKS  BY   THE   INSPECTING   OFFICER. 

Wm.  J.  Coite,  deputy  collector,  in  charge  of  a  division  composed  of 
I'harlotte  City,  and  county  of  Mecklenburgh,  but  resides  in  Statesville, 
in  Iredell  County.  He  has  been  long  in  service,  and  is  an  efficient  and 
capable  officer.  A  visit  to  his  division  shows  several  irregularities  in 
the  cigar  factories,  and  among  the  retail  and  wholesale  liquor  dealers, 
some  of  which  have  since  been  remedied.  Mendall  &  Co.,  cigar 
manufacturers,  keep  their  stamped  and  unstamped  goods  in  the  same 
room,  only  a  rail  intervening,  and  are  not  sup])lie(l  with  the  regula- 
tions. J.  W.  Hul)bard  &  Co.,  have  no  regulations,  and  have  not  regis- 
tered the  names  of  their  cigar-makers.  John  M.  Morrison  was  whole- 
saling spirits  under  a  retail  si)ecial  tax,  and  Miller  &  Leak,  tobacco 
manufacturers,  are  not  supplied  with  the  regulations. 

M.  W.  Jewett,  deputy  collector  9th  division,  composed  of  Haywood, 
Jackson,  and  Transylvania  Counties,  in  which  the  fruit  distilling  sea- 
son is  over,  leaving  but  little  work  in  the  division,  besides  that  incident 
to  the  single  grain  distilling  it  contains.  Mr.  Jewett  is  an  officer  of 
fair  qualifications  and  good  character,  while  his  knowledge  of  the  law 
and  regulations  is  not  as  thorough  as  might  be. 

Ct.  W.  Williams,  deputy  collector  8th  (livision,  composed  ot  Madison, 
Buncombe,  and  Henderson,  is  a  nnm  well  suited  for  the  class  of  work 
in  his  division,  while  he  is  not  as  thoroughly  educated  and  acquainted 
with  the  law  and  regulations  as  he  should  be  to  make  a  first-class  of- 
ficer. 

Much  of  his  duties  pertains  to  illicit  distilling.  His  standing,  char- 
acter, and  morals  are  good. 

John  B.  Eaves,  deputy  collector  7th  division,  composed  of  Polk, 
liutherford,  and  Cleveland  Counties,  has  very  little  duty  except  such 
as  pertains  to  the  illicit  distilling,  which  is  very  prevalent  in  his  division. 
His  territory  is  contiguous,  and  not  very  extensive,  and  he  should  be 
able  to  suppress  it  with  the  aid  he  can  occasionally  secure  from  the 
raiding  force  allowed  the  collector.  He  is  capable  of  performing  the 
usual  duties  of  a  deputy  collector,  is  a  man  of  good  standing  and  char- 
acter, but  I  do  not  consider  him  very  active  or  efficient. 

G.  H.  Brown,  deputy  collector,  has  charge  of  the  sale  of  stamps  in 
the  collector's  office,  and  is  an  honest,  intelligent,  and  efficient  cashier 
and  clerk,  but  his  knowledge  of  the  general  duties  of  a  deputy  collector 
are  limited,  as  well  as  his  information  in  the  law  and  regulations.  His 
moral  character  and  standing  are  good. 

C.  F.  Collier,  el'k,  is  on  duty  in  collector's  office.  He  was  appointed 
on  the  1st  of  OL-tober  last,  and  is  consequently  inexperienced  and  not 


544  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENI^E    IN 

well  informed.  His  qualifications  are  ordinary,  and  I  am  not  impressed 
with  tlie  opinion  that  he  will  make  a  good  clerk.  His  character  and 
standing  are  good. 

J.  Frank  Davis,  clerk,  was  also  recently  appointed,  is  inexperienced, 
but  possessed  of  fair  qualifications.  His  standing,  character,  and  liabits 
are  good. 

A.  D.  Cowles,  special  deputy  collector,  was  removed  from  office  the 
dav  after  mv  inspection  on  a(;couut  of  drunkenness. 

JACOB  WAGNER, 

Revenue  Agent. 

XoTE. — There  were  several  of  the  deputy  collectors  in  this  district 
absent  on  raiding  duty,  whom  I  could  not  see  for  tlie  purpose  of  in- 
specting. 


No.  21. 


Report  B  of  an  inspection  of  oncers  in  6th  N.  C.  collection  district,  Dec. 

31,  '71). 

(Tabular  statement  accompanying  the  original.) 

Foot-note. — The  deputy  collectors  in  this  dist.  can  be  characterized 
for  sobriety,  and  for  attention  to  duty  I  dare  say  will  compare  favorably 
with  anv  in  the  service. 

W.  H.  CHAPMAN, 

Revenue  Aift. 


REMARKS   BY   THE   INSPECTING   OFFICER. 

Deputy  Coll'r  Bryan  examined  Sept.  12th  at  Morganton. 

Deputy  Devine  examined  Oct.  29th  at  Statesville,  is  well  informed, 
answered  the  gen'l  and  all  questions  relating  to  special  taxes,  distilled 
si)irits,  tob.  fa(;cories,  and  cigars,  promi)tly  and  satisfactorily.  I  should 
rate  liim  to  be  a  good  officer,  one  of  the  best  in  the  dist. 

Deputy  Collector  ilailcy  examined  Oct.  .'U)tli,  at  Statesville,  is  well 
informed  in  the  duties  ))ertaining  to  his  division.  The  questions  were 
not  answered  so  ])romptly  as  might  be,  but  embarrassment  seemed  an 
impediment.     I  siiouhl  rate  liim  as  a  good  ollicer. 

Dc^puty  Williams  answered  (luestions  relating  to  special  taxes,  and  is 
right  well  informed  as  to  tlie  duties  to  be  perfornunl  in  his  own  divis- 
ion.    Is  an  a(;tive  oflicer  and  takes  interest  in  ])erforming  his  duties. 

])ei)Uty  Axlcy  is  in  a  very  inac(;essil>le  ])oition  of  the  (list,  and  sur- 
rounded with  diniciillies.  Is  not  so  well  ])ost('d  iir  the  general  duties 
as  lie  might  be,  l)ut  i»robably  is  as  useful  a  man  for  tlie  position  as 
could  be  foiiiid. 

Dcp'ty  ( 'oli'r  ricwct  t  answcrcil  ;ill  (jiicslions  pcitainiiig  to  the  duties 
of  flcpiit  \  collci'toi'  ill  ills  (li\  i.sioii.  lias  Ix'cii  a  (l('i)uly  I'or  some  time, 
and  is  well  jtostcd. 

i)('l>'ty  Coll'r  . I.  15.  Mavcs,  I  Ibiiiid  well  iiilbniicd  as  to  tlu^  duties  of  a 
dcp'ty  (;oirr;  is  ipiiti'  popular  in  his  di\isi()ii  ;  has  Ix'cii  recently  elected 
to  the  State,  senate;  an  uin'-oiimioii  occurrenc«^  in  this  dist.  lor  one  who 
is  ])oth  a  liepiiblicMii  and  a  I'evciiuc  oni(5er. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTKICr    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  545 

Deputy  Coll'r  Gillespie  is  a  well  iTifoiined, active,  andetili(;i('iit  officer. 
Respectfully  submitted  by 

W.  H.  CHAPMAJiT, 

Rev.  A(jt, 


No.  1. 

United  States  Internal  Eevenue, 

Statesville,  iY.  C,  April  2G,  1880. 

Sir  :  Having  supervised  the  inspection  of  the  distillers  and  exami- 
nation of  the  officers,  found  both  on  and  off"  duty  for  that  section  of 
Gaston  County,  0th  district  of  North  tJarolina  assigned  me,  I  have  to 
report  that  the  work  has  been  completed  and  your  instructions  carried 
out. 

Upon  an  examination  of  the  distilleries  visited,  it  was  found  that  they 
are  all  constructed  very  much  after  the  same  plan,  and  that  the  officers 
are  all  doing  business  much  after  the  local  j)revailing  custom ;  that 
where  an  error  was  discovered  at  one  it  was  generally  discovered  at 
the  others,  with  an  occasional  modification. 

The  officers,  as  a  class,  were  found  to  be  plain,  unassuming  natives, 
with  few  of  the  eajiy  advantages  of  education,  but  possessing  a  desire 
to  be  instructed,  in  all  that  pertain  to  their  duties.  They  have  a  fair 
mechanical  knowledge  of  gauging,  but  appear  to  know  but  little  of  the 
theoretical  part.  A  want  of  education  in  many  instances,  and  especi- 
ally a  want  of  knowledge  of  deciuial  fractions,  rendered  it  difficult  to 
impart  a  proi)er  understanding  of  a  correction  to  volume. 

No  discovery  was  made  leading  to  the  supposition  that  willful  neglect 
or  fraud  existed  upon  the  part  of  the  offisers  ;  where  errors  were  found 
they  appeared  to  be  more  that  of  judgment  than  of  intentional  wrong. 
While  it  is  true  that  a  few  of  the  officers  examined  cannot  be  regarded 
as  first  class,  yet  with  a  practical  application  of  the  instructions  given 
them,  it  is  believ^ed  that  they  may  be  generally  relied  upon  to  do  the 
work  at  these  small  distilleries.  As  the  distilleries  themselves  appear  to 
be  a  compromise  between  a  legal  and  illegal  process,  so  it  may,  upon 
these  general  principles,  be  extended  to  the  officers. 

The  discrepancies  found  to  exist  in  the  proof  as  established  by  the 
original,  and  determined  by  a  regauge,  may  be  traced  to  the  foUowiug 
causes : 

1st.  The  reuse  of  old  casks  and  the  soaking  of  the  same  in  water  be- 
fore being  tilled. 

2d.  Reading  the  indication  by  taking  the  line  above  or  nearest  the 
surface  of  the  spirits. 

3rd.  Filling  with  spirits  at  a  higher  proof  than  is  marked  on  the  cask 
in  order  to  compensate  for  the  water  absorbed. 

4th.  The  use  of  hard  water  and  the  necessarily  slow  and  imperfect 
assinulation  of  the  same  with  the  spirits. 

The  differences  in  the  wine-gallon  gauge  may  be  briefly  referred  to 
as — 

1st.  The  erroneous  manner  in  which  they  are  in  the  habit  of  touching 
the  extreme  point  of  the  mean  diameter  slide  in  obtaining  the  bung 
diameter. 

2nd.  in  some  instances  the  officers  ascertain  the  head  diameter  with 
S.  Mis.  116 35 


546  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

the  rod  perpendicular  instead  of  the  diagonal  inclination  of  tlic  same 
across  the  head. 

The  following  irregularities  were  noted  and  believed  to  be  general, 
and  are  reported  for  your  information. ' 

The  faucets  and  openings  to  the  receiving  cistern  are  not  locked ; 
the  i)ipes  do  not  appear,  with  one  exception,  to  have  been  painted,  but 
few  of  the  furnace-doors  are  capable  of  being  locked;  the  distiller's 
books  and  reports  generally  written  by  the  officers  on  duty  ;  but  few  of 
the  gaugers  have  the  prescribed  wantage  rod;  none  of  the  officers 
liave  the  advanced  sheets  of  the  new  capacity  tables  ;  there  is  no  sac- 
charonieters  in  use,  and  hence  the  temperature  and  gravity  of  the  beer 
is  not  taken  and  recorded  as  the  regulations  direct;  there  is  no  flooring 
to  the  cistern-rooms,  and  it  is  the  custom  to  weigh  the  material  «.s*ec/ 
each  day,  and  not  the  amount  received  upon  the  distillery  premises. 

At  distillery  Xo.  1327,  owned  by  G.  W.  Gambles,  it  was  noticed  that 
tlie  cistern-room  had  a  large  crack  in  it,  through  which  spirits  can  be 
extracted  while  in  flow  from  the  pipes  to  the  cisterns  ;  that  the  ware- 
house had  openings,  between  the  plank  of  which  it  is  constructed, 
huge  enough  to  insert  an  auger,  and  that  the  casks  were  in  close  con- 
tact with  the  walls;  that  the  large  wantage  in  one  cask  gauged,  with  a 
small  hole  in  it,  had  a  suspicious  ajjpearance,  all  of  which  should  be 
corrected.  The  thermometer  at  this  distillery  was  condemned  by 
Ganger  Blackstoiie,  and  it  should  be  substituted. 

At  the  distillery  of  A.  M.  Rliyne,  No.  1202,  it  was  noticed  that  many 
of  the  warehouse  stamps  had  not  been  varnished;  that  one  cask  had 
been  warehoused  with  old  marks  and  brands  on  the  same,  and  that  no 
new  marks  had  been  placed  tbereon  by  the  ganger;  and  that  on  an- 
other cask  found  in  warehouse  with  new  wharehouse  stamps,  the  officer 
had  failed  to  totally  destroy  the  rectified  stamp,  which  was  still  re- 
maining on  the  head  of  the  same. 

At  the  distillery  of  D.  W.  Mitchem  the  officer  had  not  been  in  the 
habit  of  varnisliing  the  warehouse  stami^s  when  affixed. 

Ganger  Beasley,  visiting  the  distillery  of  II.  F.  Forbes,  Xo.  1301, 
found  tlie  store-keeper  and  ganger,  G.  W.  Setzer,  absent.  He  left  the 
distillery  on  the  21st  inst.,  to  be  absent  until  the  20th  iust.,  leaving 
the  keys  in  the  i)ossession  of  a  man  designated,  as  was  understood  by 
the  officer  himself,  and  without  the  knowledge,  so  far  as  could  be  as- 
certained, of  the  collector.  Tlie  books  had  not  been  written  up  from 
tlie  diiite  when  the  officer  left  to  the  date  of  (ranger  Beasley's  visit. 

A1;  the  distillery  (»f  F.  F.  Sumney,  No.  13S3,  the  top  of  the  separator 
was  found  broken  off,  and  it  had  been  in  this  coiKlition  about  three 
we  *ks. 

I  would  suggest  a  more  fre(|uent  change  of  the  store-keepers  and 
gangers  from  om^  (listiUery  to  another.  The  intimacy  that  is  sure  to 
be  established  between  the  ollieer  and  distiller  ean  only  be  broken  in 
this  way,  and  in  Ihis  district  it  isthonghl  that  it  would  work  bi'ue- 
licially. 

As  the  lawliil  custodian  of  the  keys,  it  a])pears  that  some  of  the  olfi 
cers  liave   not    heretofore  ai)preciated   the   responsil)ility  of  retaining 
them  in  tlieii-  )M>ssessioii.     This  may,  in  part,  ac(;onnt  for  the  manner 
in  which  duplicate  keys  were  nnulo  in  some  sections  of  the  district,  of 
which  iiieiition  was  ma<le  in  ])assing. 

'I'lie  regular  visits  of  Deputy  (-olh'ctor  .lewett  ai)p<!ar  to  have  been 
liiaiU'  at  all  of  the  (listilleries  \isited  in  his  di\ision,  and  he  is  ivgarded 
a^  a  g<»o<l  olliiei  iiinl  a  faitlifnl  worker. 

l\,\    the    f.iitiifiil    and    cheerful    manner    in  which    Gaug<M-s    Beasley, 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA. 


547 


Blackstone,  and  Randall  discharged  their  duties  in  connection  with  the 
investigation  too  much  cannot  be  said  in  tlieir  praise.  For  the  actual 
•discrepancies  discovered  between  the  original  and  regauge  1  refer  you 
to  their  reports  on  form  89,  and  as  to  the  qualifications  of  the  officers 
examined  by  them  to  their  special  report,  herewith  inclosed  and  sug- 
gested as  a  part  of  this  report. 
Verv  respectfully, 

E.  LATHAM, 
Revenue  Agent. 
Horace  Kellogg,  Esq., 

Revenue  Agent  in  Charge.,  Statesville,  North  Carolina. 


A. — Report  of  examination  of  gangers  and  store-keepers  in  the  &h  district  of  N.  Carolina,  made 
by  W.  M.  Randall,  JJ.  S.  ganger,  April,  1880. 


iN^ame. 


J.  W.  Brown , 

M.  A.  Holland 

■Geo.  W  McKee.. 
James  K.  Lewis  ... 

S.  M.  Morris 

r.  C   Fercruson 

AV.  B.  Lav 

W.  H.  Rhyne 

A.  Groner 

S.  P.  Pasour 

G.  K.  McLaughlin 
G.  F.  Flowers 


Eesidence. 


How  long  in 
service  ? 


40     Charlotte 


Dallas  . 

Dallas 

Dallas 


1  year  . 

1  year  . 
3  years 
1  year  . 


23     Dallas I  1  vear 


Dallas '  3  years 

Gastonia is'mo's. 


26  I  Gaston  Co |  15  m 

48     Dallas  Co I  16  " 

5-2     Gaston  Co 6    " 

39     Dallas 5    " 

57  "      i  7     " 


Is  he  familiar 
with  the  du- 
ties of  his 
office? 


Fair  k  n  o  w  1- 

edge. 

Yes 

Yes  

Fair  k  no  w  1- 

edge. 


Not  very  good . 

Fair  k  now  1- 
edge. 

Not  verv  good . 


Is  he  attentive 
to  duty  ? 


Not  on  duty. 
Yes. 

Seems  to  be. 


Name. 

Education. 

What  are  his  per- 
sonal habits  ? 

What  was  his  mili- 
tary service  ? 

li 

J.  W.  Brown 

Good 

Confederate 

None 

Confederate 

No.... 

Yes. 

M.  A.  Holland  

Fair  to  good 

Geo.  W.  McKee 

K 

Confederate 

W.  B.  Lav     

W.  H.  Rhyne 

Confederate 

Fair 

G.N.  McLaughlin 

G.  F.  Flowers 

Poor 

llEMARKS. — At  all  the  distilleries  which  I  visited  I  found  the  gangers 
and  store-keepers  ou  duty  and  seemingly  attentive.  Very  few  of  them 
have  wantage  rods  .or  pipetts.  All  gauge  to  make  the  capacity  of 
cask  even  gallons.  Some  of  them,  in  taking  the  bung  diameter,  draw 
the  extreme  point  of  the  projection  of  the  mean  diameter-slide  till  it 
strikes  the  under  side  of  the  bung  stave,  thereby  giving  too  great  a 
bung  diameter.  None  of  them  understood  the  mean-diameter  scale,  nor 
could  they  gauge  on  the  first  or  third  varieties.  Not  one  understood 
•correction  to  volume  nor  manner  of  figuring  same,  nor  of  cutting  the  fig- 


548 


COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 


ures  on  the  buug  stave  when  the  capacity  of  the  cask  was  not  seven  gal- 
lons with  wantage,  and  correction  and  correction  marks.  Some  ofthem^ 
in  taking  i)roofout  of  a  barrel,  till  the  hydrometer  cup  with  a  proof-glass^ 
set  the  cup  on  a  shelf,  go  and  gettiie  stem  and  put  it  in  tlie  cup,  and  in 
the  course  of  a  minute  or  two  announce  the  indication  and  temperature. 
This  method  would  be  liable  to  deceive  the  ganger,  and  in  cold  weather 
make  theproof  appear  stronger  than  it  really  was.  Nearly  all  the  barrels 
are  soaked  with  water  before  being  tilled.  This  will  also  have  a  tendency 
to  weaken  the  proof.  Some  gangers  rest  the  line  above  the  general  sur- 
faceof  the  spirits  instead  of  the  one  below  for  the  correct  indication .  The 
above  reasons  will  in  part  account  for  the  discrepancy  between  original 
andreganges.  None  and  of  the  gangers  have  the  advance  sheet  for  capac- 
ity tables.  Some  have  Manual  of  1873,  which  says  nothing  about  correc- 
tion to  volume  where  spirits  are  exactly  proof  or  below,  dropping  all 
fractions  below  five-tenths.  I  tind  no  saccharometers  at  any  of  the  dis- 
tilleries. Gangers  gauge  barrels  before  being  filled,  and  make  proof  for 
distillers.  Cistern-rooms  have  no  floor  nor  ceiling,  just  boarded  and 
battened  on  outside.  Nearly  all  the  low- wine  tubs  are  set  down  on  the 
ground,  and  low  wines  pumped  into  doubler  with  a  stationary  pump. 
All  have  holes  in  top  of  from  one  to  two  in.  in  diameter,  to  measure 
depths  of  spirits.  Found  board  loose  on  low-wine  tub  at  I).  W.  Mitch- 
ems.  Wines  could  be  abstracted.  Meal-box  at  B.  F.  Morris's  had  no 
cover.  Spirit  pipes  at  all  distilleries  running  into  cistern-rooms  are  oi^en 
at  the  end,  and  spirits  run  into  an  open  funnel,  thence  into  barrel. 
Store-keeper's  books  generally  correct.  Most  of  the  gangers  have  a 
very  limited  education,  and  know  nothing  about  decimal  fractions  or 
figuring  correction  to  volume,  and  when  such  is  the  case,  it  is  almost 
labor  in  vain  to  try  to  teach  them.  I  think  my  list  of  store-keepers  and 
gangers  will  be  able  to  master  the  situation  with  proper  care  and  study. 
W.  B.  Lay  and  G.  F.  Flowers  were  pretty  dull  scholars.  They  may  do 
in  North  Carolina,  where  they  have  only  one  or  two  barrels  a  week.  I 
advised  them  all  to  meet  in  Dallas  at  least  once  a  week  and  try  and 
perfect  themselves.  Colonel  E.  Latham,  who  was  with  me  part  of  the 
time,  will  perhaps  report  more  fully  in  relation  to  the  distilleries. 
Kespectfullv, 

W.  M.  RANDALL, 
U.  S.  Ganger^  ofh  Ills. 


B. — Uctiorl  of  cj-ami nation  of  gautjers  and  sfore-keepers  in  - 

J.  Barnes, ,  1880. 


difit.  of ,  made  hij  J. 


(S 

e.-' 

j 

"3 

•  t>j 

t< 

a 

.=  ^- 

Name. 

o 
o 

a 

Si  o 

.■SE 

■5 

o 

> 

i 

2-2 
32 

3 

o 

73   IB 

|3 

Kemarkp. 

C 

a 
o 

M 

a 
o 

Is  he  fami 
duties  o 

d 
1 

3 

£5 

as 

.a 

1- 

IB 

o 

ja 

IB 
.13 

46 

W 

n 

w 

Liin- 

Tem- 

None . 

to 

M 

M 

K.  .7.  Kennedy. 

Kiii(;'M 

1 1  iiio'h 

I'ar- 

Yes 

No.. 

Yes. 

Found     store- 

.Mt.,N. 

tiaity. 

it<.(l. 

perate. 

keeper   using 

<J. 

a   "Miller  ' 
lock  on    the 
(siHtorn-rooni ; 
lijitl  no  other: 
niiiil     III'    liad 

ordered  one. 

THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA. 


549 


C — lleport  of  cxaminat'wn  of  gaugera  and  sfore-lceepera,  in  thedth  district  of  i^^  Carolina, 
made  hy  G.  F.  Blackstone,    U.  S.  ganger,  April  20,  21,  and'22,  1880. 


Name. 


Residence. 


How   loiij; 
service  ' 


Is  he  familiar 
with  tlie  du- 
ties of  his 
office  .' 


Is  he  attentive 
to  duty? 


John  M.  Uanna. . . 

L.  A.  Masin 

W.  R.  Rankin 

J.  M.  Armstrong. . 
T.D.Mc  Alpine... 
P.  A.  Little 


Charlotte,  N.  C 17  months I  Fairly  so i  Appears  to  be. 

Dallas,  N.  C 16  mos He  is '  He  is. 

Gaiibalrti.N.C I  18  mos He  is i  He  is. 


Garibaldi,  N.  C ;   la  mos ,  He  is . 

Mt.  Holly,  JS".  0 ,  si  years He  is. 

Mt.  Holly,  N.  U .1  12  mos Fairly  so. 


He  is. 
He  is. 
He  is. 


Name. 


John  M.  Hanna. 
L.  •&..  Masin 


Education. 


W.  R.  Rankin  . . . 

J.  M.  Armstrong 
T.D.Mc  Alpine. 
P.  A.  Little 


Think  itmight 
be  classed  as 
fairly  good. 

Seems  to  be 
practical  ly 
good. 


About  fair; 
probably 
rather  lim- 
ited. 

Same  as  above - 


About  same  as 
above ;  pos- 
sibly better. 

Faiilv  good. .. 


What  are  his 
personal  hab- 
its? 


So  far  as  I  could 
learn  correct. 

Think  they  are 
cor  rec  t;  ap- 
pears to  be  a 
good  man  for 
the  position 

Same  as  above  .. 


Same  as  above. 


Same  as  above. 


Could  learn 
nothing  to  his 
discredit. 


What  was  his 
military 
service  ? 


None. 
None. 


About  3  years 
in  Confeder- 
ate army. 

About  2J  years 
intlieConfed- 
erate  army. 

Five  years  in 
Unionarmy. 

None 


Not  while 
on  duty. 

He  is  not. 


He  is  not 

No , 

No 

No 


Is  he  fit  for 
the  position 
held? 


See  remarks. 
He  is. 

He  is. 

He  is. 
He  is. 


Appears  to  be; 
perhaps  not 
alt  o  get  he  r 
satisfactory. 


Remarks. — Tlie  condition  of  affairs  at  the  distillery  of  J.  W.  Gamble, 
No.  1327,  John  M.  Hanna,  stoijc-keeper  and  g'r.  appeared  quite  unsatis- 
factory. There  seemed  to  be  a  sort  of  loose,  careless  way  of  doing  things. 
There  were  large  openings  in  both  warehouse  and  cistern  room.  One 
in  the  cistern  room  and  near  the  si)irit  pipe  would  allow  a  person  to 
introduce  his  arm  so  that  he  could  easily  catch  the  spirits  flowing  from 
the  pipe.  The  gauge  was  uot  what  it  slionld  be,  neither  in  wine  gallons 
capacity  nor  proof.  Besides,  in  some  packages  the  wantage  was  exces- 
sively, if  uot  suspiciously  large. 

Would  respectfully  suggest  that  a  reprimand  from  the  proper  au- 
thority might  prove  beneficial,  as  the  officer  appeared  fairly  competent. 

A  single  description  might  ])erhaps  be  sufficient  for  each  of  the  other 
distilleries  visited,  as  there  seemed  to  be  but  little  difference  between 
them. 

The  officers  all  ap])eared  to  be  faithful  aud  au.xious  to  perform  their 
duties  to  the  best  of  their  ability.  Perhaps  a  little  deficient  in  educa- 
tiou,  yet  they  seem  to  have  a  fair  comprehension  of  the  duties  and  re- 
sponsibilities of  their  positions,  and  are  not  only  willing,  but  anxious  to 
comply  with  the  regulations  so  far  as  they  understand  them. 

Some  irregularities  exist,  owing  mostly  to  the  crude  and  imperfect 
construction  of  the  bnildings  and  distilling  apparatus.  Attention  has 
in  each  case  been  called  to  these  discre[)ancies,  and  advice  given  to  cor- 
rect them  as  soon  as  possible. 


550 


COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 


Tbiuk  tlie  coiiditiou,  with  the  exception  of  tlie  one  specified,  may  be 
regarded  as  fairly  satisfactory. 

lu  the  distillerj^  wareliouse  of  Smith  &  Xicker,  Xo.  1353,  J.  M.  Arm- 
strong-, s.  and  g.,  the  w.  h.  stamps  on  packages  Xos.  32  and  35  were  par- 
tially, and  that  on  No.  33  totally  destroyed.  The  officer  states,  and  I 
think  truthfully,  that  they  were  properly  attached  and  varnished.  That 
they  were  in  a  damp  place  where  they  could  not  be  seen,  and  were  muti- 
lated bv  rats. 


D.- 


-Report  of  examination  of  gangers  and  store-keepers  in  ike  6fh  district  of  X,  Carolina 
made  by  N.  E.  Beasley,   U.  S.  ganger,  April  2Ath,  Id^O. 


Name. 

Residence. 

How  long  in 
service? 

Is  he  familiar 
with  the  du- 
ties of    his 
ofiice  * 

Is  he  atten- 
tive to  duty  I 

S.P.Stome 

W  F  Holland 

45 

28 
56 
36 
50 

Dallas,  N.  C 

Dallas,  N.  C 

...    2  years  and  \ 
actual  duty 
17  months. 

...    5     mos.     ac. 
duty. 

Moderately  so. 
Yes 

Is  not  assigned. 

•J  B  Slielton 

Not  now 

Yes        

P..T.  Rhyne 

John  F.  Aydtone 

Dallas,  N.  C 

Buffalo.P.  M 

ice. 
...    15   mos.     ac. 

duty. 
...  1  7  moa.  service. 

see.  * 
Yes. 

Yes 

Yes. 

Name. 

Education. 

What    are    his  i  What  was  his 
personal  hab-         military 
its  ?                         service  ? 

Is  he  en- 
gaged in 
o  t  h  e  r 
business  J 

Is    he   fit  for 
position 
held? 

S.  P.  Stome 

Inferior Good '  Confederate... 

No 

W.  F.  Holland 

J.  B.  Shelton 

P.  J.  Rhyne  

John  F.  Aydtone 

Fair - 

Fair  

Medium 

Medium 

Good i  None  . 

Good Confederate. . . 

Good Confederate... 

Good... None 

No 

No 

No 

No 

Yes. 

Yes. 
Yes. 

Remarks. — Stone.  Not  very  familiar,  but  think  he  will  become  so. 

Holland.  Is  worthy  of  an  assignment  as  soon  as  there  is  a  vacancy. 

Rhyne.  Very  little  to  correct  in  his  work. 

Shelton.  He  has  no  manual  or  instrumeuts;  think  he  will  readily 
learn  ;  appears  intelligent  an<l  an.xions  to  learn. 

Aydtone.  As  now  instructed  can  get  along  very  well  in  all  his 
duties. 

What  luis  been  specially  ibnnd  as  not  in  acconlance  witli  regulations 
in  the  general  arrangements  of  the  distilleries  has  been  referred  to 
("ol.  Ivatham. 

Have  Ibnnd  the  officers  better  up  to  the  use  of  tlu^  instruments,  in 
ganging  and  weighing  si)irits,  than  in  So.  Ca.  Tlic  barrel  gauge  is 
very  good. 

The  (lirrnt'iicc  in  piool",  :is  rcpoitcd  (»n  i'onii  S!>,  i.s  ac('onnte<l  for, 
Muiinly,  IVom  tl)c  ('n<h*a\<)i'  of  tlic  ol'liccr  to  connteract  the  water  hMt  in 
tlie  b;n  rels  afler  wiishing  iiiid  sojikiiig.  '^fliey  have  all  been  instrneted 
fh;it  it  is  IK)  |t;iit  of  an  ((Hicer's  diitv,  l>ut  to  report  jnst  as  lonnd. 

N.  K."  IIKASLEV, 

U.  iS.  (J auger. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA. 


551 


E. —  Rcpoti  of  examination  of  gangers  and  store-keepers  in  the  (>//(  district  of  Xortli  Carol  ruif 
made  l>ij  Titos.  Hewson,  April  2'.id,  1880. 


Name. 

Residence. 

How   long    in 
service  ? 

Is  ho  t'aiu'liar 
with  the  du- 
ties   of    his 
ofhce  .' 

Is  he  attentive 
to  duty .' 

S.  P.  Sherrill 

.T  years 

5  months 

Yes  for  the 
oppoi-tiiuities 
he  has  liad. 

Xo  

Tes. 

J.  F.  Munday 

38     Denver,  Lincoln  Co... 

I  found  liim  on 
duty. 

Name. 

Education. 

What  are  his  per- 
sonal habits  ? 

Temperate 

Temperate 

What  -was  his    I«  J^^  f"" 
military  serv-      fff^^ 

busiiits.s? 

Is    he    fit  for 
position  held  ? 

S.P.  Sherrill 

Fair 

No No 

a    years     pri-  ,  No 

vate   in   the 

so-called 

Confederate 

army.              1 

Yes. 

J.  F.  Munday 

Fair 

No. 

Eemarks. — S.  P.  Slierrils,  store-keeper  aiid  ganger  at  distillery  No. 
1315,  is  a  good  man,  and  witli  the  instrnctions  given  bini  will  make 
an  efficient  officer.  He  had  the  old  instrnction  in  nsing"  the  rod  and 
reading  the  stem,  which  was  entirely  wrong. 

J.  F.  Munday,  store-keeper  and  ganger  at  distillery  Xo.  1320,  B.  M, 
Carpenter's  is  a  one-armed  man  (I  think  he  has  lost  the  left  arm  ;  he 
said  in  the  so-called  Confederate  army.)  He  is  incapable  of  using  the 
rod,  and  does  not  understand  it.  The  gauging  that  has  been  done  in 
the  distillery  since  his  assignment  there  has  been  done  by  the  distiller- 

THOS.  HEWSON, 

U.  8.  Ganger. 

GENERAL    REMARKS. 


The  selection  of  officers  by  the  Hon.  collector.  Dr.  J.  J.  ]Mott,  has 
been  men  of  intelligence  and  sobriety.  Their  instructions  have  been 
limited;  what  they  have  received  was  wrong. 

They  uniformily  read  their  rod  at  the  largest  place  of  the  head, 
always  taking  the  measurement  of  both  heads  and  dividing  the  differ- 
ence at  the  largest  and  smallest  place  found ;  they  always  try  to  make 
the  package  as  large  as  possible.  In  reading  the  hydrometer  they 
always  read  the  line  they  see. 

They  know  nothing  about  i  gallon  in  capacity  ;  when  it  is  found  they 
call  it  a  whole  gallon,  ''as  the  taxable  gallon  must  be  a  whole  gallon," 
and  so  mark  it  on  the  bung  stave. 

I  have  not  found  one  of  the  officers  examined  by  me  that  understood 
correction  of  volume;  so  they  have  never  used  it. 
Yours,  respectfullv, 

THOS.  HEWSON, 

U.  S.  Ganger. 

W.  F.  Porter,  store-keeper  and  ganger  at  McAbsher's  distillery,  No, 
1744,  had  at  one  time  been  interested  in  a  distillery  ;  found  him  a  good 


552 


COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 


man;  knew  iiotliiug  about  gauging ;  be  bad  not  entered  anytbing  in 
tlie  waijebouse. 

Yours,  respectfully, 

THUS.  HEWSOX, 

U.  8.  Ganger. 


Jieport  of  examination  of  (jaiigers  and  utore-keeper^  in   sixth  district  of  North  Carolina,  made 
hy  Thos.  Hcwson, ,  1880. 


ifame. 

Age. 

Residence. 

How  long  in 
j     service  ? 

Is  he  familiar  with  the  duties  of  his 
office? 

Adolphus  Aug.  Moss. 

K.  H.  Foard 

A.  M.  Salmon 

W.  F.  Hoots 

J.  F.  Hedrick 

S.  D.  Brown 

E.L.  Bell  

T.  B.  Havnes 

A.  AV.  Bell  

T.  S.  Call 

D.  R   Edwards 

W.  F.  Porter 

60 
32 
24 
46 
28 
34 
25 
25 
31 
54 
28 
39 
42 

Mocksville 

South  River 

Zion .  .     . . 

X-roads  Church. 
Elk  Shoal,  N.  C. 
Hamptonville  . . 

Hampton  ville 

Jonesville 

Lai  nwood 

Wilkesboro 

Roaring  River  . . . 
Mulberry,  N.  C. 
Elkville,'  K  C  . . . 

.    1  year  

.    13  montbs  . . 

.    15  mos 

.    7  mos 

.    6  mos 

.    9  mos 

.    13  mos 

.    4  mos  

.    1  year  

1  year  

.    1  5'ear 

.    19  days  

.    1    year,    off 
and  on. 

Yes  ;  for  the  opportunities  he  has  had. 
Yes  ;  for  the  opportunities  he  has  had. 
Yes  ;  for  the  opportunities  he  lias  had. 
Yes  ;  for  the  opportunities  he  has  had 
Yes;  for  the  opportunities  he  has  bad. 
Yes  ;  for  the  opportunities  be  has  had. 
Yes  ;  for  the  opportunities  he  has  had. 
Yes  ;  for  the  opportunities  he  has  had. 
Yes  ;  for  the  opportunities  he  has  had. 
Yes. 

Yes  :  for  the  instructions  he  has  rfec'd. 
Has  had  no  practice. 
Has  had  but  little  practice. 

Name. 

Is  he  attentive 
to  duty  ? 

a 
o 

<s 
o 

s 

S3 

rt  a 
j:  o 

What  was  his  mili- 
tary service  ? 

Is  he  engaged  in 
other  business? 

Is  he  fit  for  po- 
sition held  ? 

Adophus  Aug.  Moss 
H.  H.  Kuurd  

Yes 

Fair 

Temperate.. 

Temperate. . 
Tempt'rate. . 
Temperate.. 
Terajjeiate.. 

Temperate.. 
'J'enii)erate.. 
Tcfiipciate.. 
Tcniiuiato.. 
Temperate. . 
Temperate. 
Temperate. . 

'J'einporate. . 

Col.  in  the  so-called 

Confed'y. 
Never  served 

No 

Yes.     (Sea 

Fair 

No  

remarks. 
Yes. 

Yes...    Fair.. 
Ye8...|  Fair.. 
Yes...,  Gotd  . 

Yes...    Fair.. 
Yes  . .    Fair  . . 
Yes  . .    Fair  . . 
Ye.s...    Fair.. 
Yes   . .     Fai  r 

No  

Yes. 

W.  F.  Hoots 

No 

Yes. 

J.  F.  Hedrick 

S.  D.  Brown 

None 

Merchant: 
carried     on 
in  his  name; 
be  is  not  at 
the  place  of 
business. 

No 

No 

No  

No 

Yes. 
Yes. 

K  h  n.-ii 

T.  15.  Havne.-j 

None 

Yes. 
Yes. 

A.  W    liell    

N(me 

None 

Yes. 

J  S.  Call      

No  

Yes. 

Yes    . 

No 

Yes. 

W.  F.  Porter    

J.  K.  Ilindrix 

Yes  .. 
Yes... 

Fair  . . 
Fair  . . 

2  years  a  private  in 
tlie  so-called  Con- 
federate army. 

No 

No 

No 

Yes. 
Yes. 

I{km.\rks. — Adolplius  A.  Moss,  store-keei)er  and  ganger  at  J.  M. 
Howard's,  distiMcry  No.  I."51J4,  is  a  man  ironi  liis  age  tbat  niiglit  easily 
be  iiiiposcd  upon,  l-'ioin  tlie  repoit  of  regange,  I  find  i)ackages  with 
\cv\  large  wantage  ;  did  not  discoNcr  tinit  tber*'  was  any  leakage,  and 
tlie  inrerenee  drawn  was  tbat  ]>rol)al)ly  tbe  distiller  or  some  one  bad 
retailed  onl  ol'tbose  ])aekag<'S.  1  have  r<'ported  liini  fit  tor  <liity,  and  I 
think  wit  b  tlie  instruct  ions  given  biiii  be  will  imi»ro\e  and  ])rol)al)ly 
make  iin  ellieient  ollieer. 

\V.  II.  iWinegai-.  distillery  No.  1721i,  1  Ibmid  a  young  man  named 
Moss  on  duty  in  tbe  |>laee  ol"  ,1.  X.  Hays,  stoic  kecpei'  and  ganger,  ab- 
.seiii    ;itleii(lin;^  eonit    ill  Wilkes   ('oiiiit\  ;   bad  been  absent  about  one 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  553 

week.  J.  X,  Hays,  s.  and  g.,  had  no  instruments  to  gan<^e  witli.  E 
found  his  gauninj;'  and  jiroof  very  much  out  of  the  way,  iangin<;  from 
1)8  to  10!I  proof,  nunked  100  i)roof. 

R.  L.  Bell,  store-keeper  and  ganger,  was  on  duty  at  D.  L.  ».S:  B. 
Shores'  distiiU'ry,  i^o.  1387,  the  day  I  visited  tlu^  distillery,  April  13, 
'80;  Ai)ril  15,  '80,  1  was  on  the  road  to  Wilkes  County,  I  met  him  8 
miles  from  his  distillery  at  0  a.  m.  He  said  he  had  been  home  to  spend 
the  night. 

I.  B.  Haynes,  store-keeper  and  ganger  at  H.  W.  S.  »&■  Douglass,  dis- 
tillery JSTo.  1237,  was  sick,  he  met  us  and  received  our  instructions. 
We  found  at  this  distillery  47  packages  with  excessive  wantage,  .several 
of  the  packages  we  could  not  insert  the  bung-slide  into  the  bung  hole. 
These  had  been  reported  as  gauged  by  W.  F.  Hoots  and  J.  H.  Hauser, 
store-keepers  and  gangers. 


No.  2. 


United  States  Internal  Eevenue, 
Collector's  Office,  6  District  North  Carolina, 

Marion,  April  20,  1880. 

Col.  Ed.  McLeer,  Hev.  AgH  : 

Sir  :  I  have  the  honor  to  report  to  you  that  I  examined  and  instructed 
S.  H.  Flemming  in  his  duties  as  store-keeper  and  ganger  to  day. 

I  found  Mr.  Flemming  to  be  a  man  of  good  standing  and  influential 
in  the  community  in  Avhich  he  lives. 

He  was  commissioned  s.  and  g.  about  one  year  ago  and  has  been  em- 
ployed as  such  about  one-half  of  that  time. 

He  was  not  well  informed  in  his  duties,  especially  as  ganger,  but  verj- 
readily  understood  my  ex]»lanaiious.     He  is  not  assigned  at  present. 
Respectfullv  submitted. 

J.  D.  EATON. 


No.  3. 

United  States  Internal  Kevenue, 
Collector's  Office,  6  District  North  Carolina, 

Marlon,  April  2!>,  1880. 

Col.  Ed.  McLeer,  Rev.  AgH : 

Sir  :  To-day  I  examined  and  instructed  M.  M.  Teaguein  the  duties  of 
store-keeper  and  ganger. 

He  hacl  but  very  little  ])ractical  knowledge  of  his  duties  officially, 
but  readily  comprehended  my  explanation.  lie  was  commissioned  about 
10  months  ago,  has  assignment  at  warehouse  of  A.  Summons  (No.  055) 
containing  10  i)ackages,  also  warehouse  of  J,  H.  Davidson  (same  num- 
ber) containing  10  packages.  Distillery  not  in  oi)eration  for  more  than 
a  year  x)ast.  Mr.  Teague  has  no  gauging-rod. 
Respectfullv  submitted. 

J.  D.  EATON. 


554  COLLECTION  OF  inti:rnal  revenue  in 

Ko.  12. 

StATESVILLE,  NORTH  CAROLINA, 

April  2iith,  1S80. 
Col.  Horace  Kellog, 

Int.  Bevenue  Agent,  Staiesville,  N.  C.  : 
Sir  :  By  direction  of  the  Hou.  Greeu  B.  Eaiim,  Commissioner  of  In- 
ternal Eevenne,  I  liad  the  honor  to  report  to  yon  for  dnty  on  the  Gtb 
inst.,  when  I  was  assigned  by  yon  to  the  temi)orary  division  composed 
of  the  following-  connties,  viz. : 

Davie,         Deputy  Collector  W.  H.  Hobsou, 
Yadkin,  "  '^         J.  C.  Sullivan, 

Wilkes,  "  "         J.  T.  Pedan, 

Alexander,         "  "  W.  M.  Walker, 

Ashe  and  "  "  J.  Q.  A.  Brvan, 

Alleghany,        "  "  " 

with  instructions  to  make  an  examination  of  all  distilleries  in  operation 
in  those  counties,  and  to  examine  and  instruct  the  officers  on  duty  at 
said  distilleries. 

For  that  purpose  Collector  Mott  assigned  to  my  assistance  the  fol- 
lowing officers: 

Ganger,  Tlios.  Hewson,  1st  dist.  Mo. 
'•         J.  A.  Barnes,  1st        "      " 
"         F.  Greelv,  1st  "     Ills. 

"         J.  B.  Taylor,  1st  "       " 

On  the  morning  of  the  7th  myself  and  party  proceeded  to  MocksvillCy 
Davie  Co.,  where  we  were  met  by  De|)uty  Collector  Hobsou. 

The  work  of  the  county  was  then  divided  so  that  three  parties,  of 
two  each,  could  work  simultaneously,  and  at  the  same  time  be  within 
easy  reaching  distance  of  each  other.  Messrs.  IJewsou  and  Barnes 
made  one  party,  Greely  and  Taylor  another,  and  ^Ir.  Hobsou  and  my- 
self the  third.  The  first  and  second  parties  were  sent  to  the  distilleries 
that  were  easiest  of  access,  while  the  deputy  (being  familiar  with  the 
roads)  and  I  took  those  that  were  most  difficult  to  find. 

Finding  this  arrangement  of  my  forces  to  work  well,  it  was  continued 
throughout  the  other  counties.  As  was  to  be  expected,  we  found  the 
distilleries  somewhat  crude  and  the  officer  unskillful.  The  officers, 
however,  seemed  to  be  a  good  class  of  men,  intelligent  and  willing  to 
take  iristru(;tion.  The  distilleries  were  not  examined  too  critically; 
defects,  such  as  loose  joints  on  spirit  ])ipes;  fiow-cocks,  boxes,  and  meal 
boxes  locked,  but  witli  hinges  so  adjusted  that  the  boxes  coidd  be 
oi>en<Ml  without  <listurbing  tlu;  l(>cks ;  insecure  cistern-rooms,  and  the 
like,  were  all  pointed  out  and  lemedics  snggested,  which  suggestions 
wei-e  (iivoral)Iy  recei\ed  by  the  distillers,  who  promised  to  carry  them 
out  ;it  once  and  make  everything  tight  an<l  secure. 

Tiic  cistern-ruoms  generally,  as  yon  know,  are  so  constructed  that 
boards  (;an  be  readily  taken  off"  and  re])la(!ed  without  the  knowledge  of 
the  stor<;-kee])er.  To  r(;medy  this  \  have  suggested  the  placing  of 
matched  stiips  (in  tln^  al)stMi<;e  ol'  regular  easing)  across  the  boards  of 
which  the  walls  ar«!  eonstrncted,  in  such  way  that  these  strii)s  shall  be 
nailed  on  the  inside  of  the  loom,  and  so  tliatthe  outsich^  boards  cannot 
be  displaced  and  replaced  withont  the  knowledge  of  the  ol'liciu- on  duty. 
Tlie  warehonses  Weing  generally  hnilt  of  logs  are  more  secure,  at  least 
as  far  up  as  the  logs  extend,  l»nt  l»eyond  that  and  up  to  the,  apex  of  the 
roof  they  iire  very  much  like  the  ('istcrn  looms.     I  found  only  one  ol' the 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  555 

books  (Form  13)  required  to  be  kept  by  distillers  in  use.  Forms  12, 
25,  and  28,  being  entirely  unknown  and  entirely  dispensed  with.  Form 
52,  which  the}"  are  required  to  keep  in  their  capacity'  of  wholesale  liquor 
dealers,  was  kept  by,  but  a  great  many  made  no  entries  on  the  side  for 
"  spirits  received."  As  Form  12  is  not  in  use  no  account  whatever  is 
kept  by  the  distiller  of  the  materials  purchased,  and  Form  25  being  dis- 
pensed with,  he  keeps  no  accounts  of  the  filling  and  emptying  of  tubs. 

The  two  books  in  use  (Forms  13  and  52)  are  written  up  by  the  store- 
keeper on  duty,  and  in  very  many  cases  this  cannot  be  avoided,  for  the 
reasons  that  the  distiller  cannot  write  or  knows  nothing  of  book-keep- 
ing. 

Great  pains  were  taken  to  instruct  the  ofticers  and  impart  to  them 
whatever  knowledge  experience  had  taught  us. 

The  spirits  in  bond  demonstrated  the  fact  that  the  casks  were  very 
generally  overgauged,  and  this  I  attribute  to  the  unskillful  manipula- 
tion of  the  gauging  instruments.  The  lengths  were  too  long,  being 
taken  by  pressing  one  hand  on  the  lower  end  of  each  caliper,  thus 
throwing  the  part  of  the  caliper  sliding  on  the  rod  into  a  ijosition  that 
w^ould  give  a  false  reading  to  the  length.  The  mean  diameters  were 
almost  universally  taken  too  large.  This  was  accomplished  by  taking 
the  largest  part  of  the  largest  head,  and  taking  the  bung  measurement 
in  such  a  way  that  only  the  extreme  point  of  the  lips  of  the  bung-slide 
touched  the  bung-stave.  Nothing  whatever  was  known  on  the  sub- 
ject of  correction  to  volume,  and  were  it  not  for  the  dense  ignorance 
existing  on  that  question  one  would  be  almost  led  to  believe  that  the 
entire  absence  of  fractional  gallons  in  capacities  of  casks  (not  one  being 
discovered  in  the  three  counties)  was  accounted  for  by  the  desire  of  the 
gangers  to  be  relieved  from  the  necessity  of  making  and  reporting  the 
corrections  to  volume.  Some  of  the  ofticers  had  a  correct  understand- 
ing of  the  proper  way  to  read  the  indications  and  temperature,  but  the 
majority  read  the  first  line  above  the  surface.  The  stamps,  marks,  and 
brands  (corr.  to  vol.  excepted)  were  generally  put  on  in  a  proper  man- 
ner, only  that  it  is  quite  generally  the  custom  to  separate  the  special 
brand  of  the  distiller,  a  portion  of  it  being  cut  above  the  stamps  and 
a  portion  below.  The  store-keeper's  record.  Form  17,  was  kept  on  the 
"machine"  principle,  one  day's  receipts  of  materials  being  just  the 
same  as  every  other  day's  receipts,  and  no  day's  receipts  being  in  ac- 
cordance with  the  facts,  but  all  being  entered  as  "  received,"  in  pre- 
cisely the  same  quantities  as  "  used  "  daily,  without  reference  to  the 
actual  quantities  received.  In  many  cases  store-keepers  entered  tem- 
perature and  gravity  regularly  every  day,  notwithstanding  that  they 
had  neither  thermometer  nor  saccharometer  with  w^hich  to  test  it.  The 
similarity  of  many  of  the  names  of  ofticers  and  distillers  suggested  the 
idea  of  consanguinity,  and,  on  making  inquiry,  I  ascertaine(l  tlMit  five 
of  the  store-keepers  are  so  related,  the  ofticers  being  generally  sons  of 
distillers,  but  on  duty  at  other  than  their  fathers  distilleries.  I  do  not 
wish  to  be  understood  as  noting  this  with  intention  to  retlect  on  either 
party,  as  it  is  possible  for  an  honest  distiller  to  have  an  honest  son.  I 
mention  it,  however,  for  the  information  of  the  proper  authorities,  for 
I  apprehend  it  is  a  thing  that  might  be  carried  too  far. 

The  efficiency  of  the  service  in  the  counties  visited  by  me  depends 
largely  upon  the  character  and  ability  of  the  deputy  collectors  in  charge 
of  those  divisions.  In  Mr.  Hobson,  Davie  County  has  a  most  accomplished 
officer,  who  is  thoroughly  interested  in  the  work  in  which  he  is  engaged, 
but  whose  compensation,  I  am  sorry  to  say,  is  not  commensiirate  with 
the  duties  and  work  that  so  large  a  number  of  distillers  entail.     In  Mr. 


556  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Sullivan,  Yadkin  Co.  has  au  indefatigable  worker,  whose  pay,  I  am 
glad  to  say,  is  more  near  what  it  ought  to  be  than  that  of  Mr.  Hobson. 
In  Capt.  Pedan,  Wilkes  County  has  a  deputy  collector  to  whom  the  tax- 
payers and  officers  all  seem  to  look  up  with  great  respect,  a  zealous, 
hard-working  officer,  whose  great  aim  seems  to  be  to  bring  his  division 
up  to  a  high  standard  of  excellence,  but  whose  pay  and  allowances  are 
not  at  all  equal  to  the  hard  work  performed. 

I  am  convinced  that  the  best  interests  of  the  service  and  district 
would  (be)  subserved  by  an  increase  of  the  pay  and  allowances  of  the 
above  named  deputies,  or  at  least  an  equalization  of  the  salaries  of  all 
the  deputies  in  the  district,  and  in  some  cases  an  increased  allowance 
for  expenses.  To  Mess.  Hobson,  Sullivan,  and  Peden  I  am  largely 
indebted  for  the  expedition  with  which  I  was  enabled  to  prosecute  and 
accomplish  the  work  assigned  to  my  x>arty. 

To  Messrs.  Hewson,  Barnes,  Greely,  and  Taylor,  all  of  whom  are  ac- 
complished officers  and  gentlemen,  I  am  also  indebted  for  the  cheerful, 
willing,  and  hearty  co-operation  extended  to  me  at  all  times  and  in  all 
places  during  the  trip. 

I  transmit  herewith  their  several  reports. 
Very  respectfully, 

H.  B.  BUEGH, 
Int.  Revenue  Ganger,  on  Spe.  Duty. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  557 


A. — Statement  of  nUowances  made  hij  the  Sccretari/  of  the  Tiramiri/,  upon  the  recommenda- 
tion of  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Rerenue  for  the  sijcth  dislriel  of  North  Carolina,  for 
deputies  and  elerks,  upon  wieieh  the  followiiKj payments  were  made: 

REGULAR  ANNUAL  ALLOWANCES. 

Fiscal  year  1874.     Ajiproved  by  Secretary,  August  8, 1873 : 

Five  deputies if;7,  500 

One  clerk l|  OOO 

Fiscal  year  1875.     Approved  by  Secretary,  July  25,  1874  : 

One  deputy 1,800 

Four  deputies (;^  000 

One  deputy 1  ^  vjOU 

One  clerk l,20O 

Fiscal  year  1876.     Approved  by  Secretary,  June  It),  187.5 : 

One  deputy 1,800 

Three  deputies 4,  500 

One  clerk 1^  200 

Fiscal  year  1877.     Approved  by  Secretary,  September  6,  187G  : 

One  deputy 1, 650 

Seven  deputies 9,-00 

Three  deputies 3,  300 

One  clerk 1,000 

One  clerk 600 

Fiscal  year  1878.     Approved  by  Secretary,  June  11,  1877: 

One  deputy 1,700 

Seven  deputies 9,  800 

Three  deputies 3,  300 

One  clerk i 1,  000 

One  clerk '  600 

Fiscal  year  1879.     Approved  by  Secretary,  June  27,  1878  : 

One  deputy 1 ,  700 

Seven  deputies 9,  800* 

Four  deputies 4,  400 

Two  clerks ." 2,  000 

One  clerk (jOO 

Fiscal  year  1880.     Approved  by  Secretary,  July  2,  1879 : 

One  deputy 1,600 

Seven  deputies 9.  450 

Six  deputies 6J  300 

Three  clerks 2,  850 

One  clerk .  900 

Fiscal  year  1881.     Approved  by  Secretary,  June  23,  1880 : 

Two  deputies 3, 200 

Six  deputies ^.  8, 100 

Eight  deputies.... 9,200 

Four  deputies 3,  800 

One  deputy 800 

One  messenger 300 

Fiscal  year  1882.     Approved  by  Secretary,  June  17,  1881 : 

Two  deputies 3,200 

Six  deputies 8, 100 

Eight  deputies 9, 200 

One  deputy 1,  200 

Three  deputies , 2,  850 

Two  deputies 1,  eoO 

One  messenger .^ 300 


558 


COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 


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THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA. 


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COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    KEVEXUE    IX 


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THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  561 

Statement  of  tin-  alloivtoicrs  made  hi/  the  Secretdri/  of  thr  Trcaftitri/,  upon  the  rrcommenda- 
tion  of  the  Commissioner  of  Internal  Bevenne  for  the  sixth  district  of  North  Carolina, 
for  special  deputies  employed  in  the  suppression  of  frauds  in  manufacture  and  sale  of 
sjyirits  and  tobacco,  ujwn   ichioli  the  foUowiut/  2)ayments  ivcrc  made: 

Sri-X'IAL   ALU  tWANCKS. 

Fiscal  year  1874.     Approved  by  the  Secretary: 

One  special  deputy .fl,  500  00 

Fiscal  year  1875.     Approved  by  the  Secretarj' : 

Oue  special  deputy 1,  500  OU 

Fiscal  year  1876.     Approved  by  the  Secretary  : 

One  sjiecial  deputy 1,500  00 

One  special  deputy ~ 1,200  00 

Fiscal  year  1877.     Approved  by  the  Secretary  : 

Seveu  special  deputies *2,  051  35 

Fiscal  year  1^78.     Approved  by  the  Secretary  : 

Eight  special  deputies,  July  to  December 2,400  00 

Eight  special  deputies,  from  October  15,  three  mouths 3,  000  00 

Eight  special  deputies,  from  January  15,  three  months 3,  OOl)  00 

Eight  special  deputies,  from  May  1,  two  mouths 2,  000  00 

Fiscal  year  1879.     Approved  by  the  Secretary: 

Eight  special  deputies,  for  three  months,  from  July  1,  1878 3,000  00 

Seven  special  deputies,  for  four  months,  from  September  1 I      „  r^„  ^,, 

Eight  special  deputies,  for  three  mouths,  from  October  1 ^        ' 

Fifteen  special  deputies,  from  March  15,  1879,  to  April  30,  $125  per 

month 2,903  25 

Additional  special  deputies,  from  August  26  to  November  30,  1878 670  50 

Fiscal  year  1880.     Approved  by  the  Secretary : 

Fifteen  special  deputies,  two  months,  from  October  15,  1879,  $125  per 

month 3,750  00 

Fifteen  special  deputies,  from  December  15,  1879,  to  January  31,  1880  2,812  50 

Fifreen  special  deputies,  for  two  months,  from  February  1,  1880 3,750  00 

Fifteen  special  deputies,  for  tifteen  months,  from  April  1,  1880 937  50 

Fifteen  special  deputief",  from  April  16  to  June  30,  1880 4,  637  50 

Fiscal  year  1881.     A^iproved  by  the  Secretary  : 

Fifteen  special  deputies,  two  mouths,  July  1,  1880 3,750  00 

Five  special  deputies,  from  August  16  to  November  30 2, 197  58 

Fifteen  special  deputies,  three  months,  from  September  1,  1880 5,625  00 

Fifteen  special  deputies,  for  three  months,  from  December  1,  1880  .. .  5,625  00 

Five  special  deputies,  for  three  mouths,  from  December  1,  1880 1,875  00 

Fiscal  year  1880.     Approved  by  the  Secretary : 

Six  special  deputies,  November  1  to  January  31,  1882,  at  $100i»er  month     1,  800  CO 
S.  Mis.  IIG 36 


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Statennnt  of  paynieiifs  made  to  uttvrnaJ-revenne  (jatuicrs  in  the  sixtli  dislrict,  Xortit  Carolina, 
from  Au()uiit  1,  ISl'Z,  to  Uneinhfr  31,  1'573. 


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1872 
1872 
1872 
1872 
1873 
1873 
1873 
1873 
1873 
1873 
1873 
1873 
1873 
1873 
1873 
1873 
1874 

141  50 
169  80 
168  04 
201  94 
136  89 

99  85 
127  25 
139  67 
117  10 
120  04 
100  66 
122  76 

98  80 
7  00 

$113  23 
139  12 
166  83 
144  12 
143  52 
142  02 
160  53 
166  57 
153  22 
170  08 
101  48 

32  10 
120  00 

83  00 

$106  03 
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153  90 
142  36 

$26  30 

153  35 

99  00 

95  20 

$84  95 

148  25 

127  25 

37  70 

$122  75 
120  12 
148  ]3 
122  35 
141  94 
140  38 

72  00 
147  65 
188  17 

$94  15 
139  42 
149  47 
163  33 
108  40 
179  25 

11  35 
7  33 

45  87 
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162  32 

April 

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86  88 

94  64 

122  60 

'*469'82' 

103  75 



113  74 

Julv    

101  51 

85  00 

32  50 

116  63 

125  69 

130  79 

September 

112  46 
93  50 

17  18 

51  00 

11  60 

January 

Total : 1,651  30  ,1,835  82  ,1,074  67     781  67  I  '908  23    1,205  49 


32  ,     703  50 


Months. 


June 1873 

Julv ,  1873 

Au2ust 1873 

September    1873 

October 1873 

November ;  1873 

December :  1873 

Total 


$81  56 
90  58 
98  69 


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76 

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301 

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$102  02   $140  66 
132  49     144  93  J  $22  50  i     $18  40 


234  51     285  59       22  50 


*  $469.82  in  one  payment  for  all  account.s  from  March  1, 1873,  to  January  31,  1874. 
Prior  to  Augiist,  1872,  gaugers  were  paid  by  the  distillers,  and  not  by  the  Tnited  States. 


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COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 


Statement  of  jicymcnfs  made  to  ■'itoreleepers  hi/  J.  J.  Molt,  colhctor  >i'u-tJt  dintrict,  Xorth 
Carolina,  from  Junnarij  1,  1874,  to  Jnne'M,  1874. 


Kato  per  day. 

Amount  paid   quarter 
ending  March  31, 1874. 

Amount  paid  quarter 
ending  June  3'J,  1874. 

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Name. 

2 
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.$96 

$70 

64 

104 

$104 
104 
104 

$104 
16 

$.586 

Giav,  J.  W  

492 

4  00           108             flt! 

104 

620 

Bictwn  W  H 

4  00  '         108 

4    00    :             108 

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48 
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96 
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72 
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96 
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2.52 

Caldwell,  F    

228 

Stpwart  A.  (H) 

70 
104 

20 
104 

32 
72 
104 
104 
88 
104 

430 

Williams,  J.  W 

588 

Temnleton,  Thomas. .. 
Cain  B.  F   

260 

104 

iH 

104 
104 
104 

Bennett,  W.G 

104            11)4 

Tate  W.  S 

104 

104 

Bailey,  W.  T 

4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 

108 
108 
108 
108 

McKee,  W.  S 

8 

16 

68 

104 

104 

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36 

104 

104 

Benbow,  E 

4  00            1(18 

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96 
104 

104 
104 

Setzer,  G.  W 

4  00 

4  00 

5  00 
4  00 
4  00 

108 
108 

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108 



Smith, S.P 

Mott.H.T 

Cloud, Joel 

Bo"le,  W.  M 

72 
68 
88 
104 
104 
84 
44 

104 

104 

56 

104 
16 
52 

104 

48 

104 

48 

60 

36 

48 

104 

104 

8 

80 

130 

104 

64 

68 

104 

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20 

104 

52 

104 

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40 

130 

104 

104 

64 

40 

84 

34 

36 

100 

8 

80 

56 

48 

34 

88 

16 

40 

48 

4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 

Cliflbrd,  J.  G    

Patterson,  W.  W 

1 

Gill,  W.  L 

4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 

4  00 

5  00 

! 

24 
64 

Stowe,  L.  P 

104 

8 

William.s,  0.  G 

Sherrill  S.P 

Morrow,  Leroy 

Watts  T.J      

130 
104 
104 
104 

20 

'104 

104 

12 

92 

130 
304 
104 
104 
96 

4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 

■Irnniiijis,  T.  L 

Beuliam,  B.  B 

Shari),  G.  \V    

104 
104 

Kuiclics, .).  M 

WiltVinjr.C.  A 

Loni;,  T.  S    

Taylor,  A.  Z 

104 

Howard,  A.  B 

96 

104 

Ilol.liH,  Milfiin 

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92 

Tlioiiiliur"  J.  T 

4  00 
4  OO 
4  00 

36 

104 

56 

Thompson,  J.  S 

Little,  P.  A     

104 
56 
16 

firegorv.  James 

McCoriile,  W.  A 

4  00 
4  00 

48 

.     i 

THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA. 


573 


>St((t(mciil  of  pai/iiiviifn   made  to  ■•ili>irkrcj)C):s   hji  J.  ./.  Moff,  collector  ttixth   difitrict,  yorth 
CaroVma,  from  July  1,  IHIA,  to  June 'M,  1875. 


a 
a 

Amount    paid 
quarter  endiuK 
iSeptember   30, 
1874. 

Amount  paid    1 
quartfiend- 
ino   Decem- 
ber 31, 1874. 

1 

Amount    paid 
quarter  ending 
March  31, 1875. 

Amount    paid 
quarter  ending; 
June  30, 1875. 

Name. 

00 

a 

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1 
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1 

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0 

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1 

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3 

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Setzer,  G.  W 

$4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
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4  00 
4  00 
4  00 

4  00 

5  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 

4  00 

5  00 
5  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 

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4  00 

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24 

12 

108 

32 

108 

108 

32 

36 

40 

108 

108 

108 

108 

108 

108 

108 

108 

135 

108 

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$36 

$104 

$96 

$100 

$104 

96 

104 

104 

$96 
76 
96 
72 

$88 

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60 

$88 

16 

104 

104 

$104 

B<)"le  W  M 

104 

48 

$100 

Doiifrlas,  J.  P 

"io4 

104 

88 

108 

100 

104 

Clitt'oid   J   G 

Ji-uiiiuji8,  T.  L 

Stow.'  L  P 

io4 

104 

"io8 

28 
100 

104 
104 

96 
96 
96 
72 
96 
96 

92 

76 
108 

"irs' 

108 

22 

100 

104 

104 

104 

104 
84 

104 
84 

104 
60 

104 
104 

60 
104 
104 

80 

96 

84 

108 

100 
100 
100 

104 

Cain  K  F 

104 
104 

104 

104 

104 

104 

Tenii)leton,  'Ihouias  . . 

Lons,T-S-(M  i.) 

Ben  ham  B  B 

104 

104 

60 

104 

104 
104 
104 

108 
108 

100 
100 
100 

104 

64 

92 

104 

96 

104 

104 

104 

12 

104 
104 
130 
104 
44 

'"'46' 

"io4 

130 
104 

84 
104 
130 

56 

Bennett,  W.  G 

Moirow,  Lero y  t 

AVatts  T  J 

108 
105 
108 

100 
125 
100 



104 
130 

96 
120 

106 

135 

72 

104 
130 

104 
130 

McTiill   M.  S 

McCoikle  W.  A 

104 
20 
92 

56 
96 

'"'ge' 

108 

100 

40 

56 

64 
104 
104 

"io4 

104 
100 

44 

Tate,  \V.  S 

108 
60 

108 
48 
12 
30 

100 
100 
100 

104 

100 

Haynes,  Thomas 

Martin  J.  H     . 

104 

Gill    W.  L 

28 

104 

96 

104 

Thompson,  J.  S.  t    --- 
White  M  A1 

125    ... 

48    ... 
64  1   .. 

48  '.- 

130 
104 
104 
1C4 
104 
104 
32 
72 

120 
96 
96 
96 
96 
96 
96 

135 
108 
108 
96 
92 
84 
40 

130 
36 
76 

130 
'  'i64' 

130 

Tays  S.  L 

104 

Gray.  J.  W 

Shaip,  G.  W 

Caldwell.  J.  E.  A 

Williiims  J  W 

96 

96 



96 

104 

100 

32 

104 

92 

104 

Cobb  E  R 

Lon"  J  W  C 

32 
96 
36 
32 
16 

"ios' 

108 

108 

108 

60 

12 

80 

8 

12 
12 

44 

4 

104 

104 

104 
104 
104 
104 

12 
92 

104 
100 
104 

104 

1 

24 

Tucker,  D.  S 

io4 

George  W  H 

1 

Patterson    W   W 

' 

104 

Little  P  A 



Daniel    G    S 

1C4 

16 

Moore  W  A  H 

1 

(Jaldwell.  L.  C.  (J.  C.  ?) 
TiK^ker  F  P 

8 
28 
20 
20 

8 

4 



Bailey   L   A 

Moss  W"  B 

24 

Wilfong,  C.  A 

Ballew,  Aabery 

Walker  W  M 

12 

4 

88 

Shenill  S.  P 

4 

Withers  C  C 

104 

Pattei'son  J  H 

1 

. 



8 

1 

1 

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'  No  payments  made  by  Mott.    J.  G.  Earasay,  collector  sixth  district,  North  Caroliua. 
t  General  storekeeper.  +  Acting  general  storekeeper. 


574 


COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 


Statcmeiil  t>J'  paymetitii  made  to  storeleejX'rs  bt/J.  J.  Molt,coJlcctor  n'ulh  district,  Xorth  Car- 
olina, from  Julij  1,  1875,  to  June  30,  1876. 


Name. 


5  00 


I  00 


Moss,  A.  A 

Patterson,  "W.  "W  .... 

Bo^le,  W.M 

Gray,  J.  W 

Williams,  L.  J 

Lourance,  "W.  E 

AVatts,T.J 

Tays,  S.  L 

Adams,  J.  F 

Haynes,  Thomas 

Keece,  W.  A 

Tucker,  D.S 

Clittord,  J.  G 

Loiitr,  T.  S  

Westmoreland.  W.  L 

Tiilliville.  L.  W 

Stowe,L.P 

Ballard.  L.  A 

White,  M.  A." 

Morrow,  Leroy" 

Williams,  J.  W 

AValker,  W.  M 

Jeniiinfis,  T.  L 

Temi)letou,  Thomas . 

Gill,  W.  L 

Hobbs.C.A 

Cain.R.F    

Douglas,  J.  P 

Downs,  W.W 

Georije,  W.  H 

Orrell,D.E 

Stewart,  A.  H 

Furches.J.  M 

Caldwell.J.  E.  A  .... 

Thompson,  J.  S.^ 

Cash,  J.P 

Tate.W.S  

Wajroner,  E.  L 

Withers,  C.C 

Cook,C.L 

McGinniss,  Nathan. . 

Moore,  0 

Williams,  M.C 

Louji.J.  W.C 

Jones,  CO 

.Morrow,  L    

Shaii>e,(t.  W 

M.irill,  W.  S 

Drake,  E.H.; 

Smith,  S.  P -..1 

Pearson,  J.  A 

WilfoncC.  A 

Suioot,  G.  S 

Dula.S.  A 

Coon,  W.P 

I'aHHoiir,  D.  R 

Cliiie.J.J 

Brown.  W.  II 

.Moff,  H.  Y 

IVuiiijxarner,  T.  1,, 

•lew.tt,  .M.  W   

Hr.V"".  A.C  

Blavloek..!.  K 

Alwell,  11.  I 

Kiirrh.^,  W.  !•' 

I'rivelt,,r.  J* 

North,  T 

Cline.  K.  P.  'i '  5  0() 

Prnther,  N.  F 4  00 

•  General  Htrirekceper. 

I  Acting  K''"''''"l  Htorekr 


M 


Quarter  end-  Quarter  ending 
ing  Septem-  December  31, 
ber  30,  1875.  i   1875. 


$72 
108 

40 
4 

40 

60 
108 

20 


12 

88 

76 

104 

4 

108 

88 

135 

135 

32 

12 

108 

108 

96 

12 

76 

104 

4 

88 

16 

92 

108 

108 


$104 
40 


104 


96 


104 
104 
130 
115 


$24  $88 


52 


130 
115 


104 
104 


104 


80 
24 
88 

104 
96 

104 


130 

130 

44 


5  00 

4  00 


5  00 


104 

104 

100 

15 


104 
104 


28 

88 

104 


92 
44 
104 


104 

104 

104 

104 

104 

8 

20 

8 


15 


$104 


44 
4 
12 
104 
72 
14 


104 

80 

130 


104 
104 


$108 


Quarter  ending 
March  13, 1876. 


$104 

100 

8 

104 


$100 
36 


108 

108 


108 
108 
44 


108 
108 
135 


108 


108 
108 


108 
108 


108 

108 


98 
96 
104 
96 
24 


32 

104 
96 
32 
16 

130 
68 

100 
12 
76 
56 


108 
108 
108 
108 
108 


100 
96 


72 
104 
104 


100 
100 


100 

100 

92 


104 
104 
130 


32 
104 


100 
100 
125 


88 


100 
100 


104 
80 


104 
100 


72 
108 
108 


135 

108 
108 

"i08 
108 


104 

104 

4 


130 
90 


68 

44 

4 

8 

92 

100 

8 

104 

92 


100 


100 
100 


100 
100 


125 

100 


100 


100 
100 


100 

100 

8 

CO 

36 


$12 


92 
104 


100 
108 


100 

8 

32 


104 
100 
135 


108 


108 


108 
108 


108 
108 
108 
104 
100 


108 
108 


135 
92 


Quarter  ending 
June  30, 1876. 


100 
100 


$12 


104 

108 
84 


108 
108 


100  i  108 
100  I  104 
125  ,  135 


104 


108 


108 
104 


100 
76 


32 


100  '  108 
100  I  96 
100  I 


100 
100 


125 
100 


108 

104 

93 


135 

104 


16 
100 

88 


108 
104 


100 
100 


84 
100 


108 
108 


84 
100 


100  :  100 


84 


108 
108 


108 


[General  Htorel<ei'])er,  vico  Morrow. 

)  Acting  general  storekeeper,  vice  Morrow, 


104 
104 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA. 

StattiHfiit  of  paipiwiits  made  to  Hton'kceptrs,  <j'c. — Coutinued. 


575- 


'S 

2. 

Quarter    end- 
in  •;  Septem- 
ber 30,  1875. 

Quaiter  ending 
December  31, 
1875. 

Quarter     ending 
March  31, 1876. 

Quarter    ending 
June  30, 1876. 

Name. 

s 

s 

a 
1 

S" 

ID 

i 
1 

o 
O 

o 

-a 

a 

% 

"A 

u 
o 

a 

o 
o 
a 
P 

*:5 

P. 

^ 
^ 

2 

Beadwell,  A.M 

$24 
60 

$16 

Woods,  0.  A   

$4  00 

.. 

WLittaker,  W.  S 

I 

16 
16 

Rich,  J.  W  

Clarke  J.  A 

4 
76 
12 

4 
24 

Barklev,  W.  A 

Ellis,  W.  L.  W 

$4 

1 

Hayne.s,  T.  B 

St<(t('iiieiit  of  paijmoifs  made  to  storekeepers  and  storekeepers  and  gangers  hij  J.  J.  Motf,  col- 
lector sixth  district,  Xorth  Carolina,  from  July  1,  1876,  to  June  30,  1877. 


• 

c? 

-a 
^^ 
P. 
© 
a 

Quarter    end- 
ins  Septem- 
ber 30,  1876. 

Quarter  ending 
December  31, 
1876. 

Quarter    ending 
Marcli  31, 1877. 

Quarter     ending 
June  30, 1877. 

is'ame. 

►? 

s 

u 
-a 

a 

ft 
a 
CO 

u 

s 

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0 

3 

a 

1 

1 

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^ 
^ 

Tate,  W.  S' 

$4  00 
5  00 
5  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  (10 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 

$94 
130 
130 
104 
100 

10 

80 
104 

24 
104 
100 
104 
100 

80 

20 

104 

4 

88 
104 

16 
4 

84 

4 

104 

80 
104 

16 
104 

84 

4 

104 

4 

104 

88 

24 

76 
104 
104 

$108 

120 

120 

92 

108 

$104 
104 
104 

io-i" 

$104 
104 
104 
104 
104 

$16 

104 

104 

5i 

64 

60 

$88 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 

$108 

108 

108 

32 

84 

"'ios' 

108 

$96 
96 
96 
96 
96 
52 
96 
96 

$36 
108 
108 
32 
108 
108 

$16 
100 
100 

"$io8' 

108 

$104 
104 

Drake,  E.  B  * 

White,  M.  A 

104 

Caldwell,  J.  E.  A 

Howell,  J.  B 

100 
100 

108 

104 

Atwell,  K.  L 

Setzer,G.  W 

20 

80 

60 

12 

ioo 



Mavl)env,  R.  B 

Jewett,  M.  W 

108 
108 

72 
36 

104 
104 

108 
56 

96 

84 

108 
12 

84 

ios 

Dougla.s,  J.  P 

32 

Ballard,  L.  A 

108 
52 
56 

108 

8 
36 

Cook,  C.  L 

Cook,  K.J 

68 

104 

104 

96 

104 

100 

88 

104 

Loiirance,  W.  E 

1 

1 

108 

40 

Brown,  W.n 

j 

I 

Smith,  S.P 

20 
96 
96 

100 

108 

32 

Brvan,  A.  C 

100 

96 

104 

36 

80 

Barker,  K.  W.  H 

100 

108 

Cline,  J 

68 
104 

36 
104 

Templeton,  Thomas  . . . 
Stowe,L.P 

104 
104 
104 
104 
40 

104 
40 
104 
104 
104 

80 

96 

Jennings.  T.  L 

108 

'ios' 

104 
104 

104 
104 

108' 
'l08 

96 
""96" 

4 
104 

Gray,  J.  W 

100 

108 

Havues,  Thomas 

"io8 

108 
108 

108 

52 

72 

108 

100 

32 

Dula,  S.  A 

Haj-nes,  T.  B 

Sharpe,G.  W 

Welliorn,  E.  M... 

104 

104 

108 

96 

108 

ioo 

108 

104 

Withers,  C.C 

108 
96 
56 

■ 

; i " 1 

Westmoreland,  W.L  .. 
Lonii-.T.S 

12 
104 

104 
104 

88 
104 

88 
104 

96 

96 

96 

Loni;,  T.M 

1 

108 
60 
12 

108 
108 

104 

104 
16 

40 

1 

(Bowles,  A.  D 

::::: 

Derr,  A.J 

j 

Curry,  J.  D 

104 
104 

104 
104 

90 
104 

104 
104 

40 
108 

1 

Mott,  H.  Y 

96 

io8 

100 

108 

104 

'General  storekeeper. 


576  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IX 

Sidtemext  of  payment-s  mnde  to  storekeepers  aiid  storekeepers  and  rfaiujers,  tfc—  Coutiuiie<L 


1 

p. 
-2 

Quarter    end-  j  Quarter  ending 
iuo'  Septem-  |      December  31, 
ber  30,  1876.          1S76. 

Quarter   ending 
March  31, 1877. 

Quarter  ending 
June  30, 1877. 

Xame. 

3 
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£ 

0 

0 
1 

til 
S 
0 

1 
0 

a 

a 

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1 

a 

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a 
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$4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 

$104 

$104 
104 

$64 

AVilliaiiis  J  W 

104 

104 

16 

56 

104 

Barkle V  W.  A 

$76 

Jon°8  c'  C    

$16 

Moss  A  A 

"so' 

104 
72 

$104 

■■■4' 
4 

Long  S        

68 

48 

100 

108 

$96 

$4 

Watts  T.  J 

104 

104' 
16 
24 

68 

96 

72 

$100 

40 

Rich  T  W   

104 
16 
.'56 
64 
28 
12 
76 
32 
72 

104 

84 

68 

100 

108 

$104 

Ehyue,  J.L 

104 
104 

20 
108 

-  ioo 

•    92 

108 

96 

108 

104 

Tucker  D.  S  

i       16 

28 

Gill  W  L         

104 

Caldwell  F.  A 

Caldwell  F    

ioi' 

108 

96 

Ca'dwell  L.  C 

24 

28 

108 

24 

12 

108 

64 

36 

56 

108 

108 

108 

108 

Clarke  J  A 

McAlpine,  T.  D 

AVhittaker  AY   S 

96 

108 

100 

108 

104 

"Whittaker  J.L        

Hildebraiul  A.  G 

96 





Cobb  R  A      

96 
96 
96 
96 
96 
96 

108 
64 

108 
36 

100 
"'64 

108 

104 

Tavs,  S.  L 

Howell,  X.B.  (G.) 

Luther,  H.  A    



Hildebrand,  Otto 

20 
96 
4 
72 
108 
80 
28 
28 
96 
108 
108 
44 
52 

100 

SuUivau,  J.  C 

Lonp,  J.  W.  C 

"'ioo' 

8 

104 
108 

Smith,  A.T 

60 

McKie,  G.  W 

Sherrill,  S.  P 

60 
100 
100 
100 
100 

48 
108 

""20 
108 

64 

Moore,  H.W  

104 

68 

AVih'B  A    

1 

68 

Tritt  J.  D 

16 

Howell, R.L 

36 

28 

108 
108 
108 
.28 
60 

72 

Bonle  K.H 

4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 

Eve  C.  \V    

104 

104 

1 

THE    8IXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA. 


77 


tStdtcmcitt  of  iHUjmenU  made  io  siorclceeperH  and  sionkeepers  and  yaugers  bi/  J.  J. 
collector  sixth  district  North  Carolina,  from  July  1,  1877,  to  June  30,  1878. 


Mott, 


t4 
a 

p. 

Quarter  end- 
ing Septem- 
ber 30,  1877. 

Quarter  ending 
December  31, 
1877. 

Quaiter  ending 
March  31,1878. 

Quarter    ending 
June  30, 1878. 

Name. 

3 
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1 
1 
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1 

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$i  00 
4  00 
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4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 

$08 

$28 
104 

$108 

108 

52 

$96 
96 
52 

$104 

104 

52 

$00 
104 
104 

$104 
108 
108 

$56 

Drake,  E.  B 

Tate,  W.  S 

Cobb   R.  A          

104 

104 

104 

104 

92 

12 

36 

104 

104 

104 

96 

104 

48 

104 

16 

104 

104 

60 

48 

$108 

108 

16 

10« 

lOS 

36 

108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

$100 
100 

$108 
108 

$104 
104 

100 
100 

Mott,  H.  Y 

Cook,  C.L  

Bell   S.  S     

92 
96 
4 
12 
16 
100 
100 
52 
100 
100 
100 

108 
64 
44 

104 
104 

104 

108 
108 

96 
96 

88 
60 

164 

80 
24 
104 
104 
24 

108 
108 

"io8 

108 

100 
80 
20 

Tavs  S.  L  

84 
108 
108 

"'96' 
96 

12 

96 
104 

100 

Lon<;,  J.  W.  C 

Howell  J.  B 

108 
108 
108 

108' 

108 

88 

104 
104 
104 
48 
104 
104 
104 

104 
104 

68 

Wliite,  M.  A 

Moore.  H.  W 

Eve,  C.  W 

104 
104 
104 

72 

108 

108 

108 

68 

96 
96 
96 
96 

104 
104 
104 
104 

104 

104 

96 

104 

108 

100 

TempletOD,  Thomas.-. 
Sharpe,  G.  W 

108 

100 

Cannon   G.  W         .     . . 

108 

108 

8 

100 
100 
100 

108 
108 
108 

104 

104 

84 

104 
104 
104 
100 

108 

84 

108 

56 

108 

52 

100 

MeKee.G.  W 

Hlldebrand,  J 

96 
96 

100 
96 

104 
104 

100 

Barklev;  W.  A 

24 
92 
84 

•"" 

Stowe.'L.  P 

Boiile,  K.  B   

92 

100 

8 

8 

24 

48 

108 

104 

104 

88 

96 

104 

■"i04" 

80 

KliVDe,C.M 

Rh'vue,  William 

1 

1 

Ferguson,  F.  C... 

Ballew,  J.R 

108 
52 
56 
28 
36 

104 

104 

84 

96 

104 

104 

108 

100 

56 
104 
104 
92 
20 
20 
20 

Davis,  J.  R  

104 

108 

96 

104 
96 

104 

104 

108 

108 

100 

Cain,  R.  F 

Smith,  A.  T 

104 


92 

96 

Hihlebranil,  A.  G 

Mciilpine,  T.  D 

Fisher,  F.M     

104 

108 

96 

104 

104 

108 

100 

Davis  E.  H 

ioi 

76 
104 
104 
64 
24 
68 
32 

56 

20 

104 

108 

40 

Bailev,  L.  A  

Atwell,  R.  L   

80 

108 

108 

108 

108 

40 

20 

36 

24 

24 

16 

72 

16 

96 
96 
96 
96 

104 
104 
104 
104 

104 
104 
104 
104 

108 
108 
108 
76 

100 

Douglas,  J.  P 

76 

Mock,  L.  C 

100 

Stinson,J.  B   

100 

Withers,  C.C 

16 
32 

16 
96 

'  ioo' 

Westmoreland,  W.  L.. 

76 

Holland,  W.  F 

1 

........ 

1 

i 

Furches,  J.  M 

96 
96 
96 
64 

104 
48 
76 

104 
12 

104 
4 

104 

108 

100 

Sherrill,  S.  P 

Bogle.  W.  G 

88 
104 
104 
104 

104 
108 
108 
108 

ioo 

Grav,  J.  W 

100 

Jennings,  T.  L 

100 

100 

Wells,  J.  W 

Williams,  J.  W     

48 
24 
44 

8 
76 
68 

8 
72 

108 
108 
4 
108 
108 

100 

Patterson,  W.  AV 

100 

Sluimatt,  L.  W 

20 

Mavhew,  W.  A 

100 

Bristol,  L.  A     

100 

Martin,  J.  M 

"ios' 

104 

56 

108 

108 

24 

Lourance,  W.  E   

40 

Diila,  S.  A  

100 

100 

Smith,  D.  V 

100 

Cline,  J.R 

12 

100 

Watts,  J.  A.  F 

64 

Powell,  P.  S   

100 

1 

48 

l'"'" 

! 1                1 

S.  Mis.  116 37 


578 


COLLECTION    OF    INTEENAL    EEVENUE    IN 


Sfati))iciit  of  payments  made  1o  storekeeper>f  and  storekeepers  and  f/aii/jers  hy  J.  J.  Mott,  col- 
lector sixth  district,  North  Carolina,  from  July  1,  ld78,  to  June  30,  lb79. 


Xame. 


Drake,  E.B* $4  00 

Morrow,  Lerov* '  4  00 

Smith.  A.  T  .' 4  00 

Sharpp,  G.  W ;  4  00 

Stinson,  J.  B I  4  00 

Smith,  D.V |  4  00 

Lourance,  W.  E j  4  00 

ilc  Alpine,  T.  D 4  00 


Quarter  end-  Quarter  ending 
ing  Septem-  December  31, 
ber  30, 1878.         1878. 


00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 


Westmoreland,  W.  L 
"Watts,  J.  A.  F  . . 
Williams,  J.  W  . 
Wilkinson,  M.  A 
Hi'iulrix,  J.  K  ... 

Huttinan,  S 

Mayhew,  W.  A  . . 

Moore,  H.  W 4  00 

Mock,  L.  C 4  00 

Mott,H.  Y 4  00 

Tate,  W.  S 4  00 

Tay.s,  S.  L 4  00 

Templeton.  Thomas  . . .  j  4  00 

Lonj.',  J.  W.  C 4  00 

Davis,  E.H 4  00 

Khyne,  J.  L i  4  00 

Ferguson,  F.  C 
Farches.  J.  M  . 
Gray,  J.  W  . . . . 
Cobb,  K.  A  . . . . 


4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
Cook,  C.  L !  4  00 


Cloud,  Joel 

Cline.J.  K 

Cooper,  A.  D  * 

Cannon,  G.  W 

McKoe,  G.  W 

Bristoc.  L.  A 

Angle,  S 

Bell,  A.  W 

Dula,  S.  A    

Davis,  J.  R 

Dickev,  J.  M 

I'atter.son,  W.  W.. 

Powell,  P.  S 

.rinniugs,  T.  L 

Jiogle,  W.  (i 

Patterson,  W.J  ... 

Ilow.ll.S.L 

Burke,  It.  F 

Soiiiers,  J.  D 

Withers,  C.C 

St. .we,  L.  P 

How.  II.  J.  B 

Sb.itill.S.  P 

M.l)..w.]|,  A.  B  ... 
J{;iiii»av,  I).  A  

DollghlHM.J.  P 

I-..ng,('.  I) 

Wiir.Mig.  C.  A  ...   . 

Mill-till,  J.  M 

KhoadH,  .M.L 

Koiiiiiiers,  J.  C 

MOHH,  A.  A  . .  . , ,. 

Gl.iiri,  T  ..  

M<  I)..w.ll,.s,  M  .. 
M.Kow.ll.  \V.  P... 

Ciiiii,  k.  F   

Itaiikiii,  W.  I! 

D.MighiN-.J.t; 

Bell,  .S.  S 

Kl.ilz.  »  "'  

Moore,  W.M 


4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 


4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 


$108 

I  108 

92 

*  108 

I  108 

I  40 

I  108 

I  108 

108 

I  40 

108 

108 

108 

96 

I  108 

108 

108 

108 

108 

108 

52 

108 

!  108 

108 

108 

108 

108 

104 

108 

40 

108 

68 

8 

108 

92 

84 

48 

108 

108 

80 

64 

108 

108 

44 

12 


00 

00 

00 

00 

00 

(10 

4  00 

4  00 

4  UU 

4  00 

4  (lU 

4  (III 

00 

(10 

(10 

11(1 


$108 
108 
108 
108 
108 


108 
84 


108 
104 
108 

92 
108 

48 
108 

80 
108 

92 

48 
108 
108 
108 

'84' 

ios' 

108 
108 

i(38' 
108 

108 ' 
60 
24 
24 
16 
72 


Quarter  endin" 
March  31, 1879. 


$100 
100 
100 
100 
100 


100 

96 

56 

100 

100 

100 

100 

100 

100 

100 

100 

100 

84 

100 

ioo 

100 
100 
76 
100 
100 
100 


108 
108 
108 
108 


92 

108 

96 

108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

80 
108 
108 
108 
108 

60 
108 

32 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

36 
108 

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108 
108 

96 
108 

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108 
108 
108 
108 

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108 
108 

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108 
16 
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88 
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40 
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$104 
104 
104 
104 
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104 
104 


80 
104 


$104  $108 
104  i  108 
104  108 
104  L  108 
104  \     108 


104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 


104 
104 
104 
104 

'164' 

104 

104 

104 

76 

36 

104 

104 

104 

32 


104 
104 
104 

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104 

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104 
104 

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104 
104 
104 
104 
104 


104 
104 
104 

88 
104 
104 
104 
104 

80 
104 
104 
104 
104 


92 
104 
104 

92 
104 
104 

84 
104 


108 

108 

108 

88 

108 

108 

108 

56 

52 

108 

108 

108 

108 


40 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 


92 
92 
104 
104 
104 
104 
80 
104 
104 
104 


104 
104 
100 
104 


104 
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96 

104 


80 


16 

104 

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88 
104 


108 
108 
80 
108 
108 
108 

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108 
108 


100 
108 
108 
108 


108 

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96 
108 


108 


28 
108 


108 

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108 
108 


104 
104 
104 
104 


Quarter  ending 
June  30, 1879. 


104 
104 
.96 
104 
104 
104 


104 
96 
104 
104 
104 


$104 
104 
104 
100 
104 


104 
104 
80 
96 
104 
104 


104 
40 
104 
104 
104 


$108 
108 
108 
108 
108 


76 
108 
92 
32 
108 
108 


108 


16 
104 
104 
104 

48 
104 
104 
104 


104 

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104 

68 

104 

104 

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104 
104 

'i04' 
104 
104 
100 


104 

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104 
104 


8 
104 
104 


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li'J 


104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 


108 

108 

84 

100 
100 
100 

108 

100 

108 

108 

108 

96 

56 
100 
100 

104 


104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
60 
104 
104 
104 

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104 

104 

104 

72 


104 
"164 

"is' 

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104 
104 


104 

KM 
1(14 
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108 
84 
108 
108 
108 
108 
76 
108 
108 


108 
108 
108 


108 

'los" 

"96 
"i(')8" 


108 
108 

'ios' 

108 
108 
108 
108 
108 


(Iiii fial  slorekeiiier. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  579 

Statement  of  jxijjmcnts  made  to  storekeepers  and  storekeepers  and  gau(jers,  ijc. — Coutiuued. 


Quarter  encl- 
iug  Septem- 
ber 30, 1878. 


Quarter  ending 
December  31, 
1878. 


Quarter    ending 
March  31, 1879. 


Quarter    ending 
June  30,  1879. 


Atkins,  T.  A 

Adams,  J.  F 

Shore.F.  T 

Adams,  F.  M 

Sleuman,  C.  II 

Riitb-djre,  Z  T  . . . . 

Suggs,  J.  T   

Hendiix,  Z 

Somers,  P.  F 

Parks,  McR 

Huss,  J.  F     

Howard,  "William 

Allgood.D.P 

Grentry,  A.  D 

Jarvis,  Josepli 

Long,  A.  P    

Snuyne,  E.  L    . . . . 

Aberuathy,  E 

Khyme,  P'.J 

Groner,  A 

Jenkins,  P.  "\V  . . . . 
Morrison,  "W.  C  . . . 

Price,  W.  L 

Hanna,  J.  M 

Mason,  L.  A      

Kimbrough,  M  . . . 
Langenonr,  P.  F   . 

Keener,  J.  A 

Little.  P.  A 

Bumgarner,  T.  L  . 

Tuclier,  F.  P 

Tucker,  D.  S 

Hartman.  Enoch  . 

Stewart,  J.  H 

Pearce,  W.  L 

Lourance,  C.  W. . . 

May  berry,  A 

Badger,  6.  W 

Hoots,  W.  F 

Dobsou,  Kufus  . . . 

Bailey.  J.  K 

Salmon,  A.  M 

Khyne,  W.  H 

Bruner,  T.  K 

Setzer,  G.  W 

Hooper,  M.  L 

Hildebrand,  P.  M  . 

Hanna,  L.  G 

Reed,  S.  M 

Morriss,  S.  M 

Barringer,  Noah. . 
England,  N.  B  . . . . 
Poindexter,  G.  Z.. 

Lay,  W.  B 

Lowe,  R.  R 

Rntledge,  JohuT. 

Ellis,  W.  R 

Barklev,  W.  A.... 

Sullivan,  J.  C 

Deal,  Sylvanus  . . . 
Lowery,  D.  L    . .   . 

Kenned J-,  K.  J 

Barklev,  G.  A  .... 
Ilollanll,  W.  F.... 

Wallace,  E 

Call,  J.  S  

Abernathy,  J.  R  .. 
Price,  Thomas  A  . 

Cawley,  S 

Clarke,  J.  W 

■Wells,  J.  H 

Bell.R.  L 


$4  00 
•1  00 

;  4  00 
4  00 
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,  4  00 
4  00 
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;  4  00 

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$16 
96 

104 

104 
12 
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104 
104 
104 


104 
16 
72 
68 
44 

104 
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16 

104 

16 

8 

52 

84 

92 

8 

96 

96 

28 

32 

96 

44 

4 

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104 


$10e 
108 
108 
108 
20 
108 


108 
108 


108 


108 
108 
100 
108 


108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 


108 

80 

108 

68 

12 

84 

68 

92 

108 

60 

56 

8 

20 

108 

108 

108 

60 

24 

44 

80 

9:2 

92 

72 


.$104 
76 
88 
76 
48 
104 
104 


|I04 

20 

104 


$-.03 


108 


64 
104 
104 


108 

108 

56 


104 
104 


104 
104 
104 


92 
16 
108 
108 
108 
108 


104 
76 


108 
108 


104 
104 
104 
104 


104 
104 
104 
104 


104 
104 
104 
92 
104 


104 
104 
104 
104 
104 


104 


108 
108 
108 
108 


108 
108 
108 
108 
108 


104 
104 


104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 


80 
104 

56 
104 
104 

76 
104 
104 


104 
104 


104 


104 
104 
68 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 

ln4 
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104 
104 
104 


108 

108 


104 
100 

108 
108 

104 

52 

104 

108 

104 

108 

56 

44 

104 

108 

96 

92 

104 

108 

104 

108 

104 

100 

104 

108 

104 

108 

104 

108 

104 

44 

104 
104 


lOS 
108 


104 
104 
104 
56 
104 


68 
li8 
108 

57 
108 


104 

108 

104 

44 

104 

108 

104 

84 

1114 

108 

1j4 

108 

580  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Stdtemtut  of  2>(t!j)ue)tts  made  to  storekeeper.^  and  niorelicepers  and  tjaugers,  cj'c. — Coutiiined. 


Quarter    end- 
ing Septem- 
ber 30, 1878. 

Quarter  ending 
December  31, 

1878. 

Quarter     ending 
March  31, 1879. 

Quarter    ending 
June  30, 1879. 

Xame. 

'5 

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Poindexter  G.  C  4  00  ' 

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$68 
96 

$104 

104 

88 

92 

40 

92 

28 

80 

104 

88 

104 

$  72 
104 
104 
104 
104 
80 
104 
104 
104 
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$108 
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108 
40 
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$100 

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j 

ButnerA.  B 4  00 

40 

Dulin  W.  il  4  00 

Holcombe,  T.  F 4  00 

Alexander,  W.  F 4  00 

Halcomb,  W.B ,  4  00 

Eve.  C.  TT 4  00 

Eutledge,  J.  H ,  4  00 

Cornelius,  B.  F !  4  00 

Lewis,  J.E   ;  4  00 

Caldwell,  F     '  4  00 

Caldwell,  J.  E.  A 4  00 

Eector,  E 4  00 

Summers.  J.  X 4  00 

Lippard,  M 4  00 

Edwards,  D.  K   4  00 

1 

1 

1 

1 

j 

100 

1 

60 

i 

48  1 

56         12 
64       104 

64 

■ 

64 
108 
108 
108 
108- 

100 

96 

104 
96 

104 
72 
68 
48 
20 

100 
4 
76 
40 
92 
20 
80 

100 
76 
12 
68 
16 
52 
28 
24 

' 

60 

100 

Holland,  M.  A 4  00 

100 

Avdellotte,  J.  F 4  00 

, 

32 
12 

Foard,  E.  H  ;  4  00 

28 
108 

80 

24 
108 

28 

'"io8" 

108 
108 
108 
104 
108 



Heilig,  L.  A 4  00 

White,  J.  L 4  00 

Hoover,  S.  A 4  00 

Youno',  E.  M    4  00 

100 

100 

4  00 
4  no 

48 

Whitelev,  N.  L 

100 

"Wiles,  a' 4  00 

100 

Williamson,  K.  T 4  00 

84 

Flowers  G.  F 4  00 

1 

100 

^fclntosh,  J.  T 4  00 

Hedrick.J.T 4  00 

Wrt'Tiier,  ,1.  S 4  00 

108 
52 

108 
24 
72 
32 
52 

108 
16 
84 
80 

108 
64 

108 

108 

4 

64 

52 

48 

100 

Eaves,  J.  B 4  00 

■Benbow.  L.  S 4  00 

100 

4  00 
4  no 

84 

■Ford,  L.  ( J    1  4  00 

100 

Smith,  (i.  \V 1  4  00 

Johnston  F.  G    4  00 

100 

Fleniin"  S.  H '  4  00 

100 

Blown  J.  W 4  00 

60 

TIauHi-r  J.  11 14  00 

:::::;i  ::  :: 

100 

Hiin'man  Amos 4  00 

100 

•(Jibbs  W.  K   4  00 

100 

Duhi  T.  J             4  00 

100 

Ilildebrand  Jolin 4  00 

. 

1 \ 

100 

12 

Woo<lru(l,  R.  W      4  00 

100 

Mason   \Y.  1)        ]  4  00 

76 

llobinsoii,  \V.  M 4  00 

100 

KobiiiHon.  I.,.  A    4  00 

72 

M<(J<)v  W.  H   4  00 

92 

Osborne,  T.  .r 4  00 

48 

(JasKtevrnM.  M i  00 

100 

Bailey,  J.  W 4  00 

20 

16 

Barkley,  ().  M 4  00 

88 

I'lvler,  S.  A 4  00 

16 

A\''urd,  L.  A  4  00 

10 

1 

/ 

*  General  storekeeper. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA. 


581 


Staicmcut  of  pajimentu  inailr  to  storel'eepers  and  storckecperfi  and  f/aiif/ers  hy  J.  J.  Mofi,  rol- 
Uctor  nixth  dixfrifl,  Xorlli  ('aroJn)a,  from  July  1,  1H79,  to  June  30,  1^80. 


Namp. 


Armstroug,  J.  M $4  00 

Aniile,S 4  00 

Atkins,  T.  A 4  00 

Abeniiilhy,  J.  R  '  4  00 

Bailey,  J.  K ;  4  00 

Browu,  S.  D ,;  4  00 

Bniiifr,  T.  K 4  00 

Bark  lev,  O.  M I  4  00 

Badger,  t).  A\' !  4  00 

Barklev,  G.  A 4  OO 

Bell.  S.  S '  4  00 

Biitiier,  A 
Bell,  K.  L 

Bell.  A.  W I  4  00 

Caldwell,  F j  4  00 

Beiiliow.  L.  S I  4  00 

Cook,  C.  L   I  4  00 

Coojjer,  A.  I) 
Clint,  J.  B 
Comlev,  S 
Claike,  J.  W 
Cannon.  Vr.  "W 
Cassteven.s,  M 

Dayis,  J.  K 

Doiijilas-s,  J.  P. 
Douglass,  J.  G 

Drake,  E.  B. ' 

Dickey,  J.  M.... 

Diila,  T.  J.  * 

Edwards,  D.  R  . . 
Eiielaiid,  N.  B 

Ellis,  W.  R I  4  00 

Flower.s,  G.  F i  4  00 

Ford,  L.  C 4  00 

Glenn,  T i  4  00 

Gentry,  A.  D '  4  00 

Groner,  A 
Gibbs,  \V.  K 
Fleming,  S.  H 
Howard,  "William 
Allmiod.  D.  P... 
Holland.  :M.  A.. 
Hutt'iiian,  A 
HokomI.e,  T.  F 
Heili.;;,  L.  A 
dboper,  M.  L 
Hufl'mau,  S 
Ferguson,  F.  C 
Hart  man,  E 
Howell.  S.  L 
Hildebrand.  J 
Hildebrand.  P.  il 
Hoover,  S.  A  . . . . 

Hauna,  J.  M 

Jones,  J.  S 

Jenkins,  P.  W '  4  00 

Jennins.s  T.  L j  4  00 

Johnston.  E.  G !  4  00 

Kleitz,  A.  W. 
Kinibrongh,  M 
Keener,  J.  A  . 
Lonrance,  "W.  M. 
Langenour,  P.  V . 
Lourance,  C.  W 

Long,  T    

Lay,  W.  B     

Lewis,  J.  R 

Lippard,  M 

Lower,  J.  W.  C... 
Long,  J.  \V.  C 


(Quarter  end-  Quarter  ending 
ing  Sei)t<iii-  '  December  ell, 
ber  ;«t,  187'J.         1879. 


Quarter    ending  ,  Quartei-    ending 
March  31, 1880.  June  30,  1880.  ' 


*  General  storekeeper. 


^82  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

■Statemeut  of  payments  made  to  storekvepers  and  .sfonkccpirs  and  gatujcm,  ifc. — Coutiuued. 


Quarter    end- 
ing Septem- 
ber 30,  1879. 

Quarter  ending 
December  31, 
1879. 

Quarter    ending 
March  31, 1880. 

Quarter    ending 
June  30,  1880. 

Xarue. 

K 

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1 
1 

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Morris,  S.  M 

$4  00 
4  00 
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4  00 
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4  00 
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4  00 
4  00 
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4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
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4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
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4  00 
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$108 

108 

108 

12 

108 

32 

108 

108 

104 

44 

64 

88 

108 

96 

16 

108 

56 

12 

48 

108 

108 

108 

108 

108 

20 

16 

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80 

100 

$104 

104 

48 

104 

104 

$104 
104 
104 
104 
20 

$108 
108 
108 
88 
96 
60 
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$100 

100 

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56 

88 

"166' 
100 

$108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
52 
108 
108 

$108 
108 
108 
108 
100 
108 
108 
108 

$96 
96 
96 
96 

$108 
108 
108 
108 

$104 

96 

104 

104 

88 

104 

104 

104 

104 

96 

104 

104 

104 

104 

104 

$104 
92 
104 
104 
104 
100 
76 
104 
104 

$104 
44 
104 
100 
104 

Morrison,  TF".  C 

McAlpine,  T.  D   

McLaughlin,  G.  W  . . . . 
-McCov,  "W.  H 

Mock,  L.  C 

96 
96 
96 

108 
108 
108 

Mason,  L.  A 

McKee,  G.  W 

104 
104 
104 

104 
104 
104 

104 
104 

104 

108 
108 
108 

108 

52 

108 

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108 

96 
96 
96 
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108 
108 
108 
104 
108 
108 

Myres.M.C 

104 
68 

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84 

104 
52 

60 

108 

100 
100 

92 

104 
100 
104 
104 

96 

March,  W.B 

Osborne,  T.J 

28 
64 

Patterscin,  W.  AV 

Privelt,  W.  C 

Powell  P.  S 

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104 

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108 
76 

32 

100 
100 
20 

108 
108 
40 
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Patterson  G  W    . 

68 

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Parks  McR 

8 

104 
104 
104 
104 
96 

20 

32 

104 

104 

104 

Patterson  "W.  J    . 

20 
108 
108 
108 

104 

Pobinson,  L.  A 

Rhyne,  W.H 

Ehyne,  P.  J 

Rutled"e  J  H 

100 
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108 

16 

108 

108 
108 
108 

96 
96 
96 

108 
108 
108 

104 
104 
104 

104 
104 
104 

44 

32 

104 

Peel,S.M 

Rutledge,  Z.  T 

104 

108 
80 

100 

100 

48 

8 

100 
84 
36 

100 

'""so" 

100 
56 
84 

100 
68 

100 

108 
40 

108 
84 

108 

"'76' 

108 

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108 
108 
92 
108 
108 
108 

108 
96 
12 
108 
104 
96 

"ios' 

96 
96 

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108 
108 
104 
108 

104 
104 
48 
104 

104 
104 

104 
104 

liobinson.  W.  M 

Kankin,  TV.  R 

Phvne   J.  L 

"ioi" 

88 

104 

104 

92 

108 
108 
76 

104 
104 

"ioi' 

ioi 

80 

^hore,  F.T 

96 
32 
96 

100 
108 
108 

92 
80 
104 

104 
60 

Setzer,  (i.W 

Smitli  A    T 

108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

'ios' 

100 
108 
56 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
100 
108 
108 
96 
108 
64 
36 
68 
44 

"ie' 

8 

104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
72 
104 
l(i4 
104 

68 
104 
104 
104 
104 

52 
104 
104 
104 

108 

80 

88 

108 

100 

92 

108 

108 

108 

40 

Stowe  L.  P 

80 

96 

Srfniers,  P.  F 

Soiuers,  J.  I) 

Sbarije,G.  W 

Soninieis.  J.  N 

36 

"io8 

108 
108 

108 
108 

"1O8 
108 
88 
108 
108 
100 
108 
108 

44 
84 
96 
96 
96 
72 
96 
96 

'""96" 
96 
96 
96 

108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
100 
108 
108 
92 
108 

104 
96 
104 
104 
104 
64 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
92 

92 

88 

104 

104 

104 

104 

104 

28 

Wallace  K 

White,.!,  r 

8 
104 
104 
104 
104 
60 
104 

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104 

16 

60 

100 

100 

100 

96 

"92" 
72 

60 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

32 

20 
100 
108 

88 

lot 

104 
80 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
92 

104 

AVmianis.J.  W 

Williamson,  K. -J 

Tini))liliin,  'Ilionias 

Wilkinson,  M.A 

AVoodrnti;  R.  W 

Wll.s.  .\   

W)iilel.-v  \.L  . 

104 
104 
104 
104 

48 
104 
104 

84 

56 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

40 
100 

96 

'""ioi 

104 
104 
104 
104 

\V.sln...V.bMnl,W.  L  .. 
Wills  J.  11 

88 
56 
28 

100 
28 
60 

96 

l-ii(i-,'l'.  .\ 

104 

Diibson    IJ 

i:  /. 

■"■.1---- 

.M..II,  11.  V 

Kav.s.J.  15.' 

104 
104" 
104 
64 

104 

(!8 

lt4 

72 
108 

"es' 

88' 

■  ''is' 

108 
108 
108 
108 
«(» 
lOH 
108 

los' 

36 

8 

100 
100 

"100 

"ioo 
ioo 

100 
100 
100 
100 
100 
50 

"ioo' 

100 
8 

108 

108 

108 
108 

96 

96 

108 
52 
108 
108 
108 
80 
108 

104 

104 

16 

io4 

104 

96 
104 

HavM,.I.  N    

8 

68 
84 
92 

"io8' 

104 
108 
104 
108 
100 
108 
68 
108 
108 
8 



'"60 

16 

108 

40 

108 

1C8 

108 

lOH 

80 

108 

lOK 

108 

108 

108 

48 
92 
96 
96 
24 
96 
96 
96 
20 
64 
96 
9(i 

m 

96 
00 

ll:i'imi<-  .1.  II 

104 
60 

104 

104 

.Ml  Doucll.  \V.  1} 

<loo(l.  .lo.l 

I'.icM.ks  11.  M    

40 

"20 
104 
104 
12 
32 
40 
56 
60 
.'16 
16 

48 

.52 

104 

100 

104 

'      28 

104 

52 

104 

■    100 

104 

104 

8 

100 
104 

Ill  nilijx,  \v.(;.c 

108 
108 
108 
44 
12 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

104 
104 
104 

"ioi" 

104 
104 
104 
104 
104 

104 

i>,,viM,s.(; 

/\.lii.iis.  K.  M 

16 

88 
104 

IliilbiMil,  W.  !•■ 

100 

IijuiM  K.  II   

104 

!<■  nni-ilv.  K.  .1 ' 

\  i^ljil,  Si.  II 

4 
104 

1  MI.IHM..I.  M 

M.ii.lll.S,  I' 

A\.l|..tlr..I.  V 

I'.i-ll.  W   

104 
104 
104 

-Cfniial  sl(.rcUir|M  I. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA,  583 

iStatemcnt  of  paymods  made  to  utorekecpers  and  titore'kei'pcrs  and  (jangtrs,  cfc" — Continued. 


>5 
a 

13 

1 

Quarter    end- 
ing Septem- 
ber 30, 1879. 

Quarter  ending 
December  31, 
1879. 

Quarter     ending 
March  31, 1880. 

Quarter    ending 
June  30, 1880. 

Name. 

1-2 

1 

u 

1 

o 

1 

i 
> 

1 

1 

1-5 

>> 

2 
B 

9 

1^ 

i 

$4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 

$32 

$80 

84 

isioo 

$108 
108 
104 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

$80 

32 

16 

104 

96 

104 

104 

104 

12 

$92 
104 
52 
104 
100 
104 
104 
104 

$104 

Bo'dc  \X  G       

$108 
108 
108 

"ios' 

108 
108 

$96 
9() 
90 
60 
96 
56 
96 

$80 

"ios' 

108 

72 

108 

108 

104 

Browu  J  W            

40    

92 

Ciuiuel,  M.  M 

Frouelnuger,  D 

16 
44 
32 
60 

108 
16 

104 
12 
88 
8 
16 
16 
28 

100 

"ioo' 

100 
100 

104 
20 

104 

Mumly.J.  F 

Pusour  S  P             - 

104 

96 

.... 

100 

108 

44 



.... 

40 
36 

8 

Tays,  S.  L 

"Watts  J  A   F 

IGO 
20 

92 
96 

44 
100 

68 

44 

108 

68 

Williams  U  H 

"Wool  Ir lift;  J.  M 

Youn<'  E.  M     

"ioo' 

88 
100 
24 
8 
16 
96 
92 
12 
60 

"ibs 

88 
108 
108 

20 

'l08 
108 
108 
108 
16 

-- 
96 
76 
96 
96 

"ios 

108 

108 

108 

32 

"88 
104 
104 
104 
24 

104 
104 
104 
104 
24 

104 

Bristlii  L.  A     

88 

Call  .T.  S     

104 

104 

4  00 

Goun-h  W.  S 

4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 

76 

108 

88 

108 

ins 

108 
92 
88 
108 
108 
92 
28 
108 
108 

96 
80 
96 
96 
96 
96 

108 
76 
108 
108 
108 
108 

104 

80 

104 

"104' 
104 

84 
80 
28 
52 

104 

Gray,  J.  W 

68 

Mason  W  D 

104 

Moss  H  A 

100       108 
48       108 
64    

60        108 

104 

104 

Tucker  F.P 

96 
96 

108 
108 

104 
104 

104 
104 

104 

64 

104 
16 
60 

100 

104 

Adams  ft  W 

. 

108 
108 

96 
96 

108 

104 

8 

100 

12 

84 

100 

108 

56 

24 

12 

84 

' 

Foard  R.  H  



108 
36 

108 
108 

96 
96 
96 
96 

108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

64 
100 
108 
108 

56 
108 
108 

104 
104 
104 
40 

ibi' 

104 

92 

104 



"ibi' 

104 

Havnes  T.  B 

104 

Hediick.J.  T 

4  00 

1 

68 

4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  TO 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 

i 

Howfll  J  B 

Howell  H  L 

108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

96 
92 
40 
96 
96 
96 
96 
96 

104 

Jones,  C.  L 

Kerley.T.  A 

Little'  P  A 

52 

104 
104 
104 
76 
104 
104 

104 
104 
104 

104 

24 

60 
36 

108 

108 

16 

88 

8 

48 

.      72 

McIntyie.J.  T 

Parks  W  P 

12 
24 

104 
104 

104 

Poiudextor,  G.  Z 

104 

Wilfong.C.A  

108 

108 

104 

88 

40 

8 

16 

108 

8 

88 

76 

108 

96 
96 
96 
96 
96 

108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

104 
104 
104 
104 

72 

104 
76 

104 
20 

72 

Stewart,  J.  H 

Ballew  J.  K 

100 

Combs,  Hlx 

Hendrix,  R.J 

Hoots  W  F 

8 



96 

108 

68 

Johnston,  J.  A 

Rector,  E 

1 

1 

96 
96 

% 
16 
96 
68 
96 
4 

96 
>      52 
!      12 

308 

108 

108 

8 

104 

104 

12 

104 
104 

104 

Smith  S  P 

104 

Bickuell  B  E 



Holdeu.J.  H 

1 

. 

12 

108 

108 
108 
108 

104 
104 
104 

100 
104 
104 

104 

Nick  P  M 

72 

1C4 

Phillipps,  G.  W 

Saiilsbiiry,  D.  C 

Shore  H  E 

' 

108 
108 

104 
104 

104 
]6 

"ibi" 

104 

24 
92 
56 

24 
104 

104 

Davis.L.E 

I ' 

1 

584  COLLECTIOX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Statement  of  payments  made  to  stoyekeepers  and  stovelcceperii  and  gauffers,  <^-c. — CoDtinuetl. 


Xame. 


Hampton,  T.  H $4  00 

Hawkius.K 4  00 

Hemhis.  J.  K 4  00 

Huss.  J.  F 4  00 

Lofiin.  E.  L  '  4  00 

Martin,  S.  J 4  00 

Meiouev,  T.  A 4  00 

Sorners.".!.  F 4  00 

Smitherman,  J.  T 4  00 

Walker,  VT.U. 4  00 

Walton,  E.S 4  00 

White,M.  A 4  00 

Winters,  J.  C 4  00 

Anderson,  James 4  00. 

Brown,H.L 4  00 

Davis,  S.L '..    4  00 

Etlw  ards,  Vincent 4  00 

Gentrv.W.  A  4  00 

Heuuesee,  R.  J 4  00 

Kearns.  John  T 4  00 

Linebarger.  D.  E  : 4  00 

Marklautl,  G.  W 4  00 

MoiTis,B.O 4  00 

Moss,  W.  B 4  00 

Porter,  W.F |  4  00 

Protiitt.  S.  T..... |  4  00 

Pruitt,  J.  M 1....    4  00 

Shores,  W.  C I  4  00 

Sheltou,  J.  B '  4  00 

WUliams,  S j  4  00 

Ward,  S.  P 4  00 

Alexander,  W.  F !  4  00 

Calloway,.! :  4  00 

Douglass,  Thomas  A  ..i  4  Ou 

Garwood,  M 4  00 

(iodreeu,  James '<  4  00 

4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 
4  00 


Quarter  end- 
ing Septem- 
ber 30, 1879. 


Quarter  ending 
December  31, 
1879. 


Haithcox,  D.  M 
Martin,  W.D. 
Mills,Ar.J... 
Peddvcord,  S  . 

Pl\  k'r,  H 

Roseman,  M.  T 
Setzer,  J.  C  ... 

Shore.C I  4  00 

Stipe,  L.W 4  00 

Tnvlor,  Peter 4  00 

Todd,  R.Lee 4  00 

Bowman,  W.  G 4  00 

Culbretli,  E.  W ;  4  00 

Douglass,  W.  C 4  00 

Houston,  E.L 4  (M) 

Jones,  Jidin 4  0<l 

Loniax,  P.  A 4  0(1 

Martin,  JI.  H 4  on 

MeCiillv,  R.  II 4  00 

Pnii.st,  C.  E 4  00 

Rlivne,  A.  A 4  00 

Slieek.C;.  W I  4  00 

WillianiH,  D.  L  4  00 


Quarter  ending 
March  31, 1880. 


Quarter  ending 
June  30,  1880. 


$68 


60 
12 

84 

108 

16 

36 

28 
,«0 
84 
20 
40 


$52  '  $28 
72  104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
64 
104 


1(14 
luo 


16 

12 

84 

8 

20 

28 

52 

32 

16 

104 

104 

104 

104 

84 

104 

72 

4 

16 


$56 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 

76 
104 

52 


100 
104 
104 
104 
104 
4 


12 
36 
12 
76 
28 
40 
20 

104 
4 
16 

104 


$36 

104 

104 

10 

104 

104 

70 

96 

104 


104 


104  1   104 


104 
104 

104 


104 


68 


104 


84 


104 
60 


60 

8 

104 

16 

100 

4 

4 

12 

4 

16 

100 


THE    SIXTH    DISTKICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA. 


585 


"^ 


SS2 


S=1 


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3o    ^ 

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S^'-s 


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■  if:  o  u"^  ^  »o      o  lo  o  o 


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00  00  00  CO  CO  00 
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X  00  00  00 


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OOOOO-'tXX'^XCOOOO 
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5-  -J  U3  :-  -^  o  :o 


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§        i     -jaqniaoaci 


MaqmaAOX 


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X  X  X  X  X  X 

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586 


COLLECTIOX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 


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o  o  o  ooc  o 


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OO     '«300i0000  ^^  oooooooooo: 


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THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  587 


CI  ri     '  ?■!     ■     '  ^^  rj     ■     ■  ci 


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o-ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo   £- 

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:iKS  =  =;:5:lsSWMaaWKMKKaaHrtSHKHS'^-5^'^^>^«'ri^tilW 


588 


COLLECTIOX    OF    IXTERXAL    REVENUE    IN 


S  OS 


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■iupi 


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THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA.  591 


ifl.  CO  (N  00  Ol  (M 

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COLLECTIOX    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 


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THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    AORTH    CAROLINA. 


503 


Statevient  of  pai/menfs  wade  fo  atorfkeepers  and  storelrepers  and  {/aiiqers  J>>/  J.  J.  Molt,  col- 
lector isixth  district  Xorth  Carolina,  from  July  1,  18dl,  to  March  iJl,  I8d2. 


a 

o 
a 

Quarter  1881  end- 
ing Sept.  30. 

Quarter  1881  end- 
ing Dec.  31. 

Quari 

ing 

er  1882  end- 
March  31. 

Kaiiio. 

<1 

1- 
0 

s 

0 

1 

a 

i 

>> 

3 
1 

0 

i- 
a 

Abernathv,  .T.  R 

$3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  90 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 

3  00 

4  00 
4  00 
3  00 
3  00 

3  00 

4  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 

$9 
78 
78 
78 
78 
6 
78 

$81 
81 
81 
18 

$78 
78 
78 
78 

$78  00 
78  00 
78  00 
78  00 
78  00 

$78 
78 
78 
78 
78 

I 

Alexander,  W.  T 

$81 
81 
81 
9 

$78 
78 
78 

$72 

72 

$81 

Allgood,  D.  P 

An^le,  S 

Arnold,  TT.  S 

Atkius,  T.  A 

54 

48 

81 

78 

69 

81 

Bandy,  A 

36 

78 
12 
78 
78 
78 
78 
39 

Barkley,  G.  A 

33 
36 
81 
81 

'"'is' 

36  00 

78 

81 

60 
18 

72 
57 

57 
45 

Barkly,  0.  M 

Baninger,  Noah 

78 
78 
24 
78 

78  00 
78  00 
78  00 
78  00 

78 
78 
78 
78 
72 
63 

57 
81 
81 
81 
81 
81 

Beal,  B.  V 

78 
78 

72 
48 

Y> 

Bean,  J.  W 

81 

Bell,A.W 

Bell,  R.  L 

36 
30 

42 

Bell,S.S 

Bogle,  W.  G 

63 
69 

48 
36 
60 
30 

78 

""9" 

81 

60 

64  50 

57 

78 

75 

Brooks,  H.  M 

78 

Brown,  John  M 

30 

"   gi 

Brown,  F.  D 

6 

Bulner,  A.  B 

54 

78 

72 

81 

Ben  bow,  L.  S , . . .' 

Barnhardt,  G.  E 

78 
66 
78 
78 

81 
78 
81 
81 

78 
7« 
7K 
78 

'"72 
72 
72 

Bost,  Eli 

81 

Call,  J.  S 

78 

81 

78 

78  00 
36  00 
27  00 
27  00 

81 
81 

Ca wley,  0 

Casstevens,  M 

78 
24 
15 

81 
27 

78 

Clarke,  J.  W 

72 

72 

78 

72 

72 

Cloud,  Joel 

Cline,  J.  R 

78"  00 
78  00 
104  00 

75 
78 
78 
104 

81 

69 

81 

108 

C6 

78 
78 
1C4 

51 

72 
06 

78 
78 
104 
60 
60 
78 
15 

60 
81 
108 
12 
63 
81 

78 
78 
104 
24 
78 
78 

81 

Cooper,  A.  I).* 

108 

Crawford,  G.  W 

78  00 

78  00 

6  00 

78  00 

78 
78 

63 

81 

""78 

'"72" 

15 

81 

Camp,  B.  B 

78 
45 
78 
78 

81 
81 
81 
51 

57 

78 
78 

Davis,  E.  H 

24 
78 
36 
57 
15 
18 
27 
104 
104 
78 
45 

36 

72 

12  00 
33  00 

30 

Davis,  L.M 

Davis,  S.  C 

33 

Davis,  S.  L 

Douglass,  J.  G 

1       ■■■ 

57  00 
104  00 
104  00 
78  00 
78  00 
57  00 
104  00 
78  00 
27  00 

78 
104 
104 
78 
78 
78 
104 
78 
78 

81 
108 
108 
81 
81 
81 
108 
81 
81 

78 
104 
104 

78 

'"78" 
104 

Drake,  E.B.* 

108 
108 
81 

104 
104 

78 

96 
96 
72 
33 
66 
96 

108 

Dula,  T.  T." 

108 

Dver,  E 

18 

Dulin.  L.M 

81 

81 

Eaves,  J.  B.* 

104 
78 
78 
30 

108 
81 

104 

78 

108 

Ellis,  W.  R 

60 

72 

81 

England,  N.B 

51  00 

75 

12 

30 

81 

Eurches,  J.  M 

24 
45 

78 



Flowers,  G.  F 

39 

54 

81 

Ferguson,  F.  C 

27  00 
78  00 

78 

81 

75 

78 

9 

21 

81 

78 

72 

48 

Geutrv,  W.  A 

Gillespie,  H.  A 

6 

78 
24 

81 

78 
18 
18 
78 

72 

72 
72 
72 

81 

Gongle,  W.  S 

48 

63 

Gran  t,  A.  T 

81 

Grover,  A 

42 

81 

Gray,  J.  W 



78 
48 

51  00 
78  00 
30  00 
51  00 

78  00 

78 
69 

78 
78 
78 

81 
66 

81 
69 
81 

78 
78 
78 
78 
78 

72 
72 
60 
63 
72 

81 

30 

33 

66 

Gudgei,S.  R 

81 

Haithcox,  D.  M 

48 

78 

81 

Hanna,  T.M 

60 

78 

81 

S.  Mis.  116- 


*General  storekeeper  and  ganger. 


-39 


594  COLLECTION    OF    INTERNAL    REVENUE    IN 

Stidciiiciit  of  payments  made  to  storekeepers  and  storekeepers  and  gangers,  ifc. — Continued, 


Name. 


Hendrix,  W.  G.  C 

Heunessee,  R,  T 

Hoffman,  W.H 

Holcombe,  T.  F 

Holland,  W.F 

Hooper,  M.  L 

Hoover,  S.  A 

Houton,  E.  Z 

Howard,  William 

Hnlfinan,  S 

Hauser,  I.  H 

Havs,  I-N 

Heilig.L.A 

HoweU.H.L 

Holland,  M.  A 

Howell,  T,B 

Haye8,H 

Hayes,  M.  L 

Henderson,  T.  R 

Jenkins,  A.  T 

Jenkins,  P.  W 

Jennings,  L.  C 

Johnson,  L.  C 

Johnson,  S.  H 

Johnson,  Emniitt 

Jenninps,  T.  L 

Johnson,  J.  C 

Jones,  J.  S 

Keilev.T.A 

Klut/.^A.  W 

Kimbrough,  M 

Kennedy,  K.  T 

Keener,  J.  A 

Langenour,  P.  F 

Lav,  W.B 

LeWis.J.R 

Littl.-,  P.  A 

Lowe.R.R 

Lo wery,  U.  L 

Lourauce,  U.  W 

T^onrancf,  W.  E 

La.hl.J.L  

I.add,  K 

M<L;iiighlin,  J.  E 

Miiyh.ny,  A 

Mathi'WS,  J.  A 

MeAlpin.i.  T.  D 

MeCv,  W.  H 

McKee,  W.  S 

M<-Eaiii:ldiii,  C.  W 

McXeely,  T.  H 

Meronev,  T.  A 

Mori  is,  M  ()  

Mi.rnH.  S.  M  

Ml  Ml  IP  \v.  I^erov* 

Miirili.i:k.  A.P    

Myers,  W.  C 

Miirliii,  T.J 

Miisi.ii.  LA 

Mas.. II.  A.  I> 

MiIimIC.J.  \V 

Mv.iM.  AC.   

Martin.  IL  If 

MiOiiklr,  \V.  A  

MyiiH.  M.C   

Mi.tl.  U'.li*  

I'ow.ll.  K 

I'lK-k.  A.  F 

I'lirkH.  W.  P     

I'lilt.  iMoii.  J.  T.,Jr 

Piittei-n),  C.W  

PllltlTM.ll,  W.  W 


$3  00 


3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  GO 


3  00 
3  00 


00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 

3  OJ 

4  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 

3  00 

4  00 
4  00 

I     3  00 

3  00 

1     3  00 

I    3  no 

3  00 

eneriU 


Quarter  1881  end- 
ing Sept.  30. 


$51 
39 
69 
78 
66 
78 
15 
T8 
78 
78 


78 


21 

78 
42 
69 
78 
78 
]8 
63 
75 
78 
li'4 
78 
24 
78 
78 
78 
78 
15 


$81 
81 


69 


81 


$78  00 


78 


78 


78 


63 


Quarter  1881  end- 
ing Dec.  31. 


78  00 
78  00 


45 


78  00 


45  00 
78  00 


78  00 


78  00 


78 


81 


78  00) 

78  00; 


78  00 
78  00 
21  00 


104 
24 

7H 
78 


78  00 
78  00 


78  00|   78 
I 


78  00   78 
39  00 , 

78  00   78 
78  00   78 


61  on,  75 
78  00  78 
78  00 I  75 
21  00 

78  00   78 


78  no: 

78  00: 


78  00 
78  00: 


78 
78 

I   36 

104  00  104 

I   51 

75  001   78 
78  00   78 


Quarter  1882  end- 
ing  March  31. 


78 


?4 

81 
81 
81 
108 
81 
63 
81 


18 


78 
78 
48 
12 
104 
78 
36 
78 


78  00 


stoitikueiter  and  ganger. 


THE    SIXTH    DISTRICT    OF    NORTH    CAROLINA. 

Statenent  of  paumrnts  mala  to  storekeepers,  if-c. — Coutiuued. 


595 


Name. 


Pat  teison,  W.J 

Peai.son,  D.C* 

Pet^bles,  L.  A 

Peden,  J.  W  

Pence,  H.  A 

Prevett,  W.  C 

Pa,soiir,  S.  P 

Rankin,  W.  R 

Ramsaj',  D.  A 

Reid.R.  R 

Rhyuft,  H.  M 

Rlivue,  J.  L 

Rhyue,  P.  J 

Rhvne,  W.  H 

Ru hedge,  Z.  T 

Salmons,  A.  M 

Sebastian,  L.  W 

SSebaatian,  Z.  T  

Sharpe,  O.  W  * 

Sliaver,  J.  M 

Sheiill,S.  P 

Sliield-s,  T.  L 

Shore,  D.H 

Shore,  F.  T 

Shore,  H.  E 

Smith, S.P 

Smitherman,  J.  T 

Smyre,  E.  L 

Snipes,  H.C 

Soraers,  J.  D 

Somers,  J.  F 

Somers,  P.  F 

Somers,  W.  V 

Stacy,  J.  P 

Staley,  E 

Stewart,  J.  H 

Stowe,  L.  P 

Shores,  W.C 

Simouton,  J.  B 

Summers,  J.  N 

Taylor,  J.  M 

Teague,  M.  M 

Turner,  J.  M 

Tedder,B.  F 

Tharpe.  F.  G 

Templeton,  Thomas 

V.  stal,  Al.  H 

Wallace,  K 

Wcstmoieland,  "VV.  L 

AA^ammer,  T 

Walrcii.E.S 

AV.-lch.S.  C 

Wiles,  A 

AVilkinsou.  M.  A 

Williams,  I).  L 

Williams,  G.  W 

William.s,R 

Wood,  T.  S  

WebsteT-,  W.  L 

AVhite,  \V.  P.  A  

AVoodnift',  R.  AV 

White,  J.  L 

AVilfim^',  C.  A 

Pruitt  .T.M 

Pettv,  Mack    

McFarland,  R.  S 

Maich,  W.  I'. 

McEntire,  J.  T 

Richards,  J.  B 

Riggs,  J.  M 

Robinson.  L.  A 

Brown,  H.  L 

Brown,  S.  D 

Hallyburton,  T.N 

*G. 


Quarter  1881  end- 
ing Sept.  30. 


$36 
104 

78 
42 
60 

78 
78 

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78 
78 
78 
42 
78 
78 

6 
78 
78 
78 
104 
78 
24 
78 

3 
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78 


108 
81 


27 

81 
108 
48 


39 


42 


78 


104 
21 


78  00 

78  00 

78  00 

104  00 


54 


00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
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00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
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00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
00 
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00 
00 
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00 
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al  storekeeper  and  gauger 


Quarter  1881  end- 
ing Dec.  31. 


$78  $39  00 

104  1104  00 

78  78  00 


78 


15  00 
39  00 


78  00 
78  00 


54  00 
63  00 


78 
78 
78 
104 
63 
78 


78  00 
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78  00 
78  00 
78  00 


69  00 


78  00 
78  00 
78  00 
78  00 
33  00 
51  00 


45  00 
45  00 


78 


72  00 
39  00 


18  00 
27  00 
21  00 
66  00 
57  00 
36  00 


39 


72 


81 
108 
78 
81 
57 


Quarter  1882  end- 
ing March  31. 


$104 
54 
39 


78 

104 

78 


15 


78 


78 


66 


78 


$96 


72 


5U6    COLLECTION  OF  INTERNAL    EEVENUE  IN  NORTH   CAROLINA. 
Stafemeni  of  pay  nun  ta  made  to  storeleepcrs,  tj-c. — Continued. 


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81 
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30 
48 
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42 
66 
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48 
18 
63 

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3  00 
3  00 
3  00 

$78 
78 
78 
66 
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78 
36 
78 
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12 
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21 
54 

$72 
69 
48 
21 
72 
72 
72 
72 
72 
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32 
39 

$81 
81 

Tavs  S  L      

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3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
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Aydelotte,  J.  F 

OinnoD  G.  W 

81 



81 

Gill  T  A       

81 

Hardin'T  S.  B 



81 

Hedrick  J.  T 

81 

3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
3  00 
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Mnnday,J.F 

Kamiav  J.  W 

75 

1 

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Setzer  G.  W 

78 
15 
36 
54 
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39 
66 
78 
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72            81 

Burch  A.J 

15 

72 

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Hewitt,  J.  L  

Hildelnand  P.  M     



81 

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81 

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Slieltoi)  J.  B 

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Marshall  R.  A 

51 

Hand  A  J                                   

81 

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Bowles  R  C 

69 

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21 

81 

Smith  C.J     

33 

Williams  L  W 

27 

Shore  W.  E  

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6 


UNIVERSITY  OF  CALIFORNIA  LIBRARY 

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